The Ryan Hanley Show - RHS 007 - How to be a Self-Reliant Entrepreneur with John Jantsch

Episode Date: September 30, 2019

Became a Master of the Close: https://masteroftheclose.comBestselling author and entrepreneur, John Jantsch, examines the transcendentalist idea of self-reliance and its impact on entrepreneurial success. Get more of the podcast: https://ryanhanley.com/Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today on the podcast, we have author, speaker, business entrepreneur, John Jancz, author of many different books, but in particular, we spend most of our conversation talking about his latest work, The Self-Reliant Entrepreneur, a book that dives into some of the lessons John learned researching transcendentalists, the time period in the late 1800s, mid-1800s. Emerson, Thoreau are some of the authors that you may know. This idea of self-reliance feels incredibly important, not just to entrepreneurs, but in every aspect of our life. If happiness is a derivative of meaning, then being self-reliant will help us

find that meaning. And that to me feels like something we need to talk about. And that's why I had John on the show and I am incredibly happy to bring him to you right now. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs kind of relate to self-reliance. And so as I dug a little deeper into a lot of the literature from that time period, even stuff we were told to read in school, like the Scarlet Letter and Moby Dick and stuff like that, all the protagonists were very kind of self-reliant, do your own thing. It was almost like the Times, all the writing and all the literature, which is actually still considered some of the best literature in America, all had kind of a vibe to it. And I think it was

very much a, you know, trust yourself, do your own thing, you know, you got to, you know, you got to be true to you, which is such great entrepreneurial advice. And so, as I got deeper into, you know, the whole, you know, I think there's probably 70 or 80 authors that I ended up researching, you know, they, there as I did some more research on this, you know, about every fourth generation has some sort of upheaval and societal upheaval. And that was certainly one, you know, with the Civil War. And there's some parallels, I think, culture-wise, society-wise, political-wise, where we kind of are at that same divide. And I think that, you know, a lot of the self-reliance literature really is not just about, yeah, you got to do your own thing. You know, it's also about, you know, have an empathy for people who don't see your vision and, you know, learning from them and, you know, that there's almost a healing aspect, I think, to, you know, the more self-reliant we are as opposed to relying

on, you know, governments and political parties, you know. I could not agree with you more. You know, it's funny what I take from, you know, and I guess I don't know that I, like, I don't know that I identify as, would have identified before I actually started researching for the for to come talk to you today until I started I don't know what I ever would have self-identified as someone who was into transcendentalism writing you know I just it's a tough word to say and I don't have a strong grip on the English language so I I just but I've always loved I've always loved Emerson's work in particular, and it's complex and it's, and sometimes it almost feels like he's, he's kind of

contradicting, I'm not saying that word right, but. Well, no, I think you're absolutely right. There are times when he does that and he actually admits it, that that's a trait of self-reliance. It's okay to change your mind. Yes, yes, yes. And, you know, that part of, it's funny, yesterday I was interviewing, and this will make no sense to the people who ultimately host this podcast, but yesterday I was talking to Brian Fanzo and we were talking about how there's the world is obviously it's, it's very almost cliche to say how polarized our society is today. And we started talking a little bit about how you navigate that. And, and especially from a business standpoint and talking about the various, um, uh, business cultures and, and how, and how as a leader, do

you, do you work through that and then how you do work through it from if you're kind of coming up and and and ultimately um we had this we found this idea and i think this is very much in tune and then i want to get into the book and that kind of stuff and actually i want to get into some of your your backstory too but um what i thought was really interesting uh in researching for this was this odd sense where we started talking about how it feels like there are two sides. And I actually tweeted this today was there's two sides of a social media conversation. There are individuals who are looking for that one difference so that we can hate each other. And then there are individuals

who are looking for that one commonality so that we can find, so that we can find peace. And, and it's almost like the two sides don't know the other exists. Like the side that's looking for hate is like, everybody hates everybody. And the side that's looking for commonality is like, yeah, the world's pretty good. Like things are things are i'm enjoying myself and it's really weird how the two almost don't even see each other and and i take that from his work it's almost like if you can accept who you are then you kind of are towards commonality but if you're very uncomfortable with who you are and you need someone to tell you where to be then you're going to fight and hate for what you think should be the side yeah absolutely and absolutely. And initially, you know,

Emerson was a preacher. I mean, initially, some of the writing and some of the thinking were really kind of a, you know, trying to reform some of the church, you know, thinking that he was in. And so sometimes it's a little off putting to actually call it transcendentalism. People are like, wait a minute, is that some sort of religion? But it really was just almost more, became more of a social reform movement, you know. But they really, you know, when you read deeply, you see that they really borrowed from some of the Eastern religion, you know, traditions. So this idea that we're all connected

in some fashion, runs really deeply through all of their writing. And so the idea of, you know, traditions. So this idea that we're all connected in some fashion runs really deeply through all of their writing. And so the idea of, you know, to hate somebody else is to, is in part to hate, you know, hate a part of yourself. And so, so I, you know, and I've always believed that I just, you know, everything. I mean, like when people talk about, I mean, when people talk about like, should I get paid for referrals or, you know, should you offer incentive for referrals? I'm like, look, the universal keep score, you know? And because I think there is this giant connection without, you know, there is a spiritual element to this book and to a lot of their writing, but, you know, you don't have, I don't think you have to get, you know, I don't think you have to go too far in your,

you know, religious or spiritual beliefs to buy into a lot of the practical nature of some of this stuff. Yeah, I completely agree with you. I actually, and you just talked about referrals and the referral engine is one of the books that you wrote. So for those of you who may, or for those of you at home who may not be completely familiar with your work or just are catching up, I would love just a little bit of the backstory in where I found you. I was working as an insurance salesman for my wife's family's independent agency, a small business in every way, shape and form. And that's how I found you. And you were the guy pounding small business stuff where everyone seems to eventually go into big business and not that your work doesn't apply there, but you really kind of kept coming back to how a lot of the sales, marketing, relationship building, tactics applied to small business. You know, that was

really where I found you, but can you just talk a little bit about that part of when you started writing books and duct tape marketing and all that kind of stuff? Yeah. So, and I'll be brief on this. I've got to go all the way back to the start. You know, right out of college, I went to work for an ad agency and I did that for about five years and, you know, kind of felt like, hey, you know, any dummy can run a business, you know, I'll be one. And so, I kind of jumped out and did my own thing and I really just chased project work like a lot of people, you know, hey, you know, I can hustle and, you know, do you need that? Sure, I can do that. And kind of, you know, built a bit of a business just doing that. I had a couple

of clients that were small business owners and I just really loved working with small business owners. But man, they were very challenging. I mean, in the way that I've been taught anyway to do it because they had the same needs a lot of times, but certainly never the same budgets or even attention spans, you know, frankly. And so at some point I said, well, here's what I'm going to do. If I want to work with small business owners, I'm going to create this approach where I can walk into a business owner and say, marketing is a system. Here's what I'm going to do. Here's what you're going to do. Here are the results we hope to get. And by the way, here's what it costs. And in attempt to kind of try to solve my frustration, the light bulb went on immediately because the first three people I said that to said,

where do I sign? You know, it's like they had had, and still today had had so much trouble buying marketing services because everybody was selling the idea of the week and they couldn't, you know, put anything together. And so nothing was really working. So that approach, I decided to give it a name because I, you know, I wanted it to be a system that had a name almost like a product. And so I came up with duct tape marketing. Don't ask me how or why, but it stuck and people seemed, it really seemed to resonate with this idea of simple, effective, affordable. I started writing about it. This was really right about the time or, you know, around the turn of the century. That sounds odd. But where people were starting to do things online, I started writing about this approach, turned it into a blog. Ultimately, the name resonated so much,

I just made it the name of my business and, and pretty much put duct tape marketing on everything. Um, I started selling a course, uh, you know, I productized, uh, kind of my approach and that started, that attracted publishers who wanted me to write a book that, that was really the genesis of duct tape marketing. Uh, and it also started attracting other independent marketing consultants who said, Hey, I agree with this approach, you know, uh, how, how can I get it? Um, and so I also have now a network of about 150, uh, independent marketing consultants around the world that license the duct tape marketing methodology and approach. And so as a group, we work with thousands of small businesses and, and, you know, you kind of hit the nail on the head. I like to call them real small businesses. You know, the, the, the mom and pop places that

are, that, that a lot of people aren't, you know, going after except for like Google or somebody that trying to sell them some stuff. And I just think they're the salt of the earth. And I think that helping them get their life back through marketing is kind of my life mission. And it runs through pretty much everything I do. Yeah. And for whatever it's worth, I know some insurance agencies that have adopted the duct tape marketing philosophy and hadn't found incredible success with it. So it's always been, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's nice. I think, you know, when, when you see someone who has a system like yours and you're like, Oh man, I really love the way that's

packaged up. That's great. It's tight. It makes sense. And then it's even cooler when you hear that it actually works. That was really good. So then, you know, I want to spend most of our time. If anyone has any interest, which I'm sure they will, once we really get into the self-reliant entrepreneur, which is where I want to spend the vast majority of our time today, just Google John's name, Google duct tape marketing. You will find all the books, all the vast majority of our time today, just Google John's name, Google duct tape marking, you will find all the books, all the back episodes of the blog, you've been doing a podcast for basically since podcasts started. And there's a library of information there. So I don't want to necessarily spend time on that stuff. Because you've said it, you've done it, there's plenty of places that people can go find it. I want to start looking at this idea of the self-reliant entrepreneur.

And my first question for you, since we already kind of talked a little bit about just where self-reliance came from for you, I guess my first question is, do you think that we lost this for a period? Like for you to write this book today, it makes me think that, you know, okay, there was a time period where the idea of self-reliance was counterculture. I think maybe to a certain extent, it may have rose, you know, maybe kind of like stoicism has to a certain extent, like Ryan Holiday and some have done. And then it had to have fallen away for it now to feel like a new concept again. And maybe, do you agree with that? And maybe what

was the impetus of that? Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It probably has fallen away to a degree. I mean, you just see it from some of the ways that, you know, it rears its ugly head in negative ways. But I don't, I think one of the things that's interesting about the entrepreneur is I think the entrepreneur is more geared to seeking that out anyway. I mean, a lot of times we're on our own. We've got so many voices in our head, people telling us we're wrong and tell us we can't do this. And, you know, a lot of people get in their car, they go to work, they punch the clock, they come home, they eat dinner. They don't have quite as many things, you know, telling them that they can't do, you know, what

it is they're trying to do, especially if their idea seems new and different, you know, to people and that, you know, that scares people. So, I think a lot of entrepreneurs have probably held on to this idea maybe more than society as a whole, I guess. And that's why I really wanted to apply it to the entrepreneur because I think it's just, you know, I was always amazed as I was researching a lot of this and I'd read some passage and I'd go, how is that not written yesterday? You know, I mean, it's 150 years old, but it is so relevant, you know, today. But if you want me to kind of give my take, and this is strictly an opinion, I'm not a historian by any means, but I think around 2008, 2009, we saw a societal shift that is now, you

know, kind of reared its ugly head in completion, I think. And that, you know, it coincides with what people, depending upon who you ask, the Great Depression or the second Great Depression in the United States. And I really think that kind of what came before that and now sort of the last decade at least, I think we've kind of hit this trough, I suppose, in that. And I think that you'll see a lot of people, I think, more actively. I think there are certainly people that, you know, that have retained the kind of some of the things we've talked about. But I think I see a lot more activism around saying, hey, you know,

we need to come together. And so I feel like there's a, you know, and again, I'm sure that there are some people that have written about all the cycles in history throughout time and what they mean and how they come and how do you predict them. But the timing feels right to really be pushing this idea. Yeah. It's funny that the economy since the Great Recession or, 2009, you know, it's been nothing but up, you know, we're in the longest up cycle that we've had, uh, I think since like the eighties. And, uh, at the same time, there is this odd sense of, I don't want to say doom because that feels a little too heavy, but like this odd sense that everything isn't okay at the same time. And there's been, you know,

some people have written about a recession that's coming or a correction and different things. And I would say my gut tells me that that has to be right. Like it just can't go up forever. And the idea of being self-reliant during a time of turmoil feels incredibly important. Is that kind of the impetus here? You know, absolutely is. I mean, you know, most people spend their two biggest expenditures are on their entertainment and on their ego. And I think that, you know, a lot of that, you know, buying the big car, buying the boat, buying the stuff that, you know, kind of feeds the ego. And I'm not against,

you know, toys and having fun, you know, and all the things you can do. But the people that are very driven by that, a lot of times, it's really driven out of a sense of fear in a lot of ways. And I think that part of the idea of self-reliance is so much is about trust, you know, and, you know, I mean, Thoreau is a great example. I mean, throughout Walden, you know, he talks about how we, you know, we need to consume less and make more, you know, and I think that that, you know, certainly is a theme that as I've gotten older, as I've, you know, gotten farther along in my, you know, in my business life, you know, I'm, you know, I'm way less concerned about, you know, gotten farther along in, you know, in my business life, you know, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm way less concerned about, you know, looks on social media and all of that kind of stuff. And,

and I gotta tell you, you know, it's a lot more joyful. Yeah. So maybe for someone who has never written, read Emerson or Thoreau or any of the others of the time period, like, just break down this concept of self-reliance in terms of what it, what maybe, maybe give it an idea of like, what were they specifically addressing at the time? And then, and then what does it mean for us today, 150 years later? Well, I think as I said, you know, originally, it was a bit of a reform movement or a social reform movement. So, at the heart, you know, the idea of self-reliance was self-trust, is self-trust. That, you know, you, everyone's unique,

everyone has the ability to do whatever they want to do, whatever they, you know, believe that they don't need to follow the well-worn path of, you know, what other people are telling you to do, that if you have a dream, you absolutely owe it to yourself to go for it. And to follow your own, you know, path and listen only to you. Now, what's interesting is, you know, a lot of people kind of put that as, yeah, I'm going to, you know, here what's interesting is, you know, a lot of people kind of put that as, yeah, I'm going to, you know, here's my goal of, you know, earning, you know, $10 million by the time I'm 30. And that, you know, theirs was really much more about how do you express your true self? How do you follow your truth? Okay, if earning, you know, $10 million by the time you're 30 is a way for you to express your truth, then, you know, go for it. But that there was so much

in this work and in this literature about, and especially as I apply it to a business, a better you makes a better business. And so, so much of, you know, what they wrote about was how you had to, okay, it's great to say, trust yourself, follow your inner truth, but there's a whole lot of work on how you've discovered what that is, how you stay true to it, how you, you know, keep the demons out, you know, that are telling you that you're no good. And so there were certainly a lot of writing on solitude and on journaling and on walking. You know, Thoreau has an entire essay that I recommend people read titled Walking. And it's just all about this idea of, you know, getting outside. That was another theme that runs through a great deal of this work is that nature, you know, is a perfect example of how we, you

know, should live. And so, you know, there's a lot in self-reliance. And in fact, Emerson has an essay called Nature that I recommend people read. But the idea of it was that, you know, you have to, and this is the part where Ile. You know, they didn't have social media. They didn't have the internet. And they were saying that. So imagine how important that idea of self-reflection is today. You know, one thing that we've probably been a little bit remiss, I should talk about the structure of the book a little bit. Yeah, please. As well, because, you know, I'm not, and there is some history in this, but this is not a history book. I'm not trying to explain to people what all these people were thinking. I've basically made a daily inspirational for entrepreneurs. That's, that was the goal. So it, it, it takes the literature from this time period and I've basically curated a lot of the, you know, nuggets that I think are really gold.

And every day you get one of those nuggets. So it starts, you know, January 1st, January 2nd, you know, you're getting a page a day. So you get one of those nuggets from, I don't know, I should count some days so I can be accurate, but probably a hundred different authors, 366 pages. And then I riff for 100, 150 words, just trying to apply it to my experience. So, you know, buyer beware. That's really what it is, is my opinion, my experience about, you know, how to live as a self-reliant entrepreneur. And then I give you a challenge question every day, which is hopefully something that you can center on for the entire day and give some thought. So, you know, the idea behind this book

is it takes you about three minutes to read a page. You know, it might go very nicely into somebody's morning routine if they're doing some journaling or doing some self-reflection or meditation or something. So it was kind of meant for that. Because I think they're, you know, they're, the second you leave the door, you know, there's going to be hundreds of people trying to help and hundreds of things trying to beat you down. And so, you know, the idea behind this is maybe just a daily dose of, hey, you know, you got this. And what changes have you made after doing this research and diving in?

Like what things have you seen change about your own life? Yeah, that's really insightful for you to ask that because I have been telling people all the time that I grew more in this past year from writing this book than, you know, I'm certainly, I don't know how long a period of time, but it was such a compact amount of time that I spent with this literature and spent thinking about, you know, what I was going to share that, you know,

you know, don't tell my clients this, but, you know, I spend very little time on social media now. That's one of the, that's one of the visible, you know, uh, things because it just, um, I feel like not that I didn't have a sense of what was important, but I certainly have a much greater sense of the world's still going to be here. You know, I'm, I'm going to look for things that bring me joy and nothing else. And, you know, there's just no sense in dwelling in, did I get asked to that conference? Did I, you know, am I, you know, am I on the top 50 blah, blah, blahs of, you know, to follow on Twitter?

You know, I mean, that stuff just is so unimportant, you know? And so in a lot of ways, I mean, that's probably the most sort of visible, physical thing that I can identify. But I just, you know, I picked the book up now, you know, I've got the pages of it, you know, I pick the book up every day, I have it sitting by me, and it's one of the beauties of kind of one of these daily books is you can go back, you can read through the whole thing. And then on January 1st, you know, the next year, you're a different person. And it's amazing. You've probably done this before. I mean, how many times have you read Self-Reliance? You know, I've read it a dozen times. And every time I read it, I was like, when did that get added?

You know, I missed that part last time. You know, that's really, that's really powerful. And I think it's just, you know, you, you read these things and they hit you because you're ready for them to hit you that day. I completely agree with that. I heard, ah, geez, I'm going to forget who it was. It was one of the, one of the, it was either Holiday or Godin or one of these guys guys and they were talking about books all right it might have been james alcher he was talking about uh everyone wants to read books and then take a picture of them and throw it on instagram so we have some sort of status signaling around how smart we are and and he said instead of reading you know 10 okay books just so you can

status signal on instagram that you've, that you're, you know, this big reader, how about you just read the same book that is actually worthwhile 10 times, because you're probably going to get a lot more out of that. And it's funny, you asked me how many times I read it. I've, I have this essay printed out. This is the third time I've printed it. Um, I've, and I've read it. This is the third time that I've, that I've, and it's funny how you start to key in every time I underline and you start to key in on different phrases and different things. And I'm completely with you on that, that I feel like, I feel like our perception is who we are today is who we're always going to be. And that's so far from accurate in every way.

And the case in point is, I always key in on this line from his, God will not have his work made manifest by cowards. That's like one of my favorite lines ever written ever in any book. If I ever get a tattoo, I may have that phrase tattooed on my body. But then, you know, the next time I read it, this time I read it, I can't get to, and they're both on the first page. I mean, I have tons of notes, but you know, they're both on the first page, this idea of like, for the inmost in due time becomes the outmost. And like that line, this time I read it has been like the primer for every, you know, the first time I read it, that, that idea of God will not have his work made manifest by cowards was the primer for the rest

of the work. And then this time it feels like this line, I can't get out of my head. And it's why what we're talking about here on the idea of self-reliance and what that actually means. I think, you know, solitude is, is important. And this is where I want your feedback. Like my perception is that solitude, nature, time, quiet, mindfulness, these things are important. Not so that you can be away from people, but rather so that you can understand yourself better so that you can understand others like you can't understand someone else if you don't know who you are and what that time away allows you to do is start to better like you can't get away from yourself if you're alone like that's all you have it's why

it's like it's what rogan talks about when he sticks himself in that dunk that that isolation tank for two hours like he can't get out of his own head. And, um, you know, my, my, now I, so I run, uh, a startup to a certain extent it's quasi startup, but, um, um, I have found the overwhelm of all the various things that come in. I sometimes find that I'm underperforming in tasks that I should, that should be right in my wheelhouse because I have all these other inputs. And I guess my, what, you know, something I want just from all the reading that you've done and the advice that you're now kind of pushing through and your hundred, you know, your snippets that you're adding, like, I think a lot of people share that. What are some

of the things that, and again, I don't expect you to quote certain pages, but what are some of the things that you found that, that entrepreneurs or leaders or really anyone can be doing from this work to start to find some peace and feel a little more, find a little more meaning in their work, I guess? A number of the things that you mentioned run through a lot of the pages. Now, I organized the book so that every month kind of has a theme, you know, so we're in September. Congruence is a theme for September and it's not outward overt, but it kind of brings a little bit together. And so that you mentioned a theme that runs through is mindfulness. And I mean, that's not a new idea by any means, but these, you know, that it was a

very, very central idea to this idea of self-reliance is that we've got to pay attention. We've got to be here. You talked about the inputs. I mean, the worst inputs in the world are the ones from yesterday and the ones that are for tomorrow that we're already thinking about. And it not only takes us away from doing our best work, but it kind of robs us of the joy that we could have while doing that work. I mean, we've all experienced that. And I, I think one of the best ways to, to give somebody a true experience of the book, if you don't mind, is I would love that. Please like three minutes. I'll read one. No, please do. We're recording this on, um, and it's, it's funny. You talked about, um, this, this, um, passages from self-reliance and it talks about mindfulness. Um, so this happens to be for

September 12th, which is when we're recording this. So it starts with the title, then the reading, and then my work, and then the question. So here we go. September 12th. What is time? These roses under my window make no reference to the former roses or to the better ones. They are for what they are, and they exist with God today. There is no time to them. There is simply the rose. It is perfect in every moment of its existence. Before a leaf bud has burst, its whole life acts. In the full bloom flower, there is no more. In the leafless root, there is no less. Its nature is satisfied, and it satisfies nature in all moments alike. That's Ralph Waldo Emerson's Self-Reliance

from 1841. Almost every work cited in this book at some point turns to nature for an example or a metaphor related to living in the present. So let's start off today talking about what it means to not live in the present because that's where most of us spend a great deal of our life. Not living in the presence means you open yourself to becoming a victim of the ravages of time. Here's a fun experiment for you. Google the question, does time really exist? And prepare yourself for some mind-altering reading. Using your experiences from the past and dreaming about your life or your business in the future is okay. It's necessary. But it's

only when our thoughts and feelings are dictated by our past or future that we need to find a way to get rooted firmly in the immediate present. The reason nature makes such a fine example of mindfulness is that in nature, there's one giant emerging moment. There is no past, no future, really no time. So there's no way for nature to develop any bad habits related to such social constructs. So we spend time focused on the deadline, working as a means to an end, fixated on Monday instead of Sunday, worried what others might say or not say about our best work. We won't solve this today. This is your lifelong work. So settle in and get to practice. Your challenge question today,

what are you experiencing right now in this moment? Describe it. Tremendous podcast from Mr. John Janich. That's what I'm experiencing. It's so funny. So I love that framework and thank you for reading that. It really does. I'm sitting here and you're reading that passage and I'm taking notes and I'm taking notes off of your interpretation and then suggestions based on it. present um it's something that i i personally i struggle with immensely i've tried mindfulness meditation i still try to do that once in a while although um i found it is not the best form of bringing me to the present um for me that happens to be writing writing helps me center but i i if i'm not writing really if i'm not creating, I really, really struggle with being present. And what I just love to know, this doesn't have to do with the book or whatever, like

how do you, do you struggle with it? Like what is your relationship with acting and thinking in the present moment? Yeah, I think everybody does. And I think particularly entrepreneurs do because, I mean, you know, my wife and I were talking about something that, oh, I had a meeting canceled early this morning. She was like, oh, did that open up your schedule? I was like, no, I got more stuff to plug in there. You know, it just meant I moved something, you know, into there. And I think we, you know, it's really easy to get into that habit. And I, I think we, you know, we, it's really easy to get in, into that habit. You know, I definitely have a morning routine that I try to stick with that, that it helps me get started, but, but I will find that I do say that, you know, throughout the day, I try to take

breaks that are just, you know, about that. And, and you know, for me, I, I, I spent about half my time in the mountains in Colorado now. And so, you know, after this podcast, I'm going to go walk in the woods for a minute. And that, you know, I try to do that, you know, three to four times a day. You know, when I can, first off, it makes me more creative. You know, it not only brings me back, I think it just kind of rejuvenates. It's almost like you build up all this, like sludge all day long. If you don't clean it out occasionally, you know, by three o'clock you're not sure what you've got left. So that's certainly a practice for me. Another thing, and I'm not great at this, but at least it helps me from getting overwhelmed is that I, you know,

even though I will have appointments and things during the day, you know, I have two or three things that these are the most important things. And I, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, you know, I may have six other things on my to-do list, but I'm not gonna really knock anything else out just because it's easy. I'm gonna, you know, focus on the hard things. A lot of times the hard things are the highest payoff things. Yeah. It's almost like allowing yourself to feel a sense of accomplishment for the things that you did get done instead of feeling like you, like giving yourself a hard time for the things that you didn't get done. Like you could pound through a whole day and at the end of the day, I'm like, oh, and I didn't do this thing. And I'm like, instead of getting there and going, but wait a minute, like I just crushed eight hours worth of

work. Why don't I, why am I not celebrating that? And why am I giving myself flack for, for the couple of things that I may not have gotten to? Well, and I tell you, if you, you know, if we had a little recorder recording what we did throughout our day, you know, we probably about 20% of our time at the office is, you know, do we actually accomplish anything that means anything? Yeah. You know, I have a getaway place. Like I'm actually recording this podcast from there. It's a, it's a coworking space here in, uh, it's actually in Troy, New York, our offices in colony, which is across town. And, um, and the office is great and I need to be around my people and, and we work incredibly well together. It's, there's 10 of us. We're in a people and, and we work incredibly well together.

There's 10 of us. We're in a nice tight spot and we work in that space well. But I also, and I have shared with them that I have to get away. Like I have to have that time where I'm here. There's no one else around. This is my room. You know, no one's busting through that door. Like I can just, I can do this. I can do other work. I have a whiteboard right over here that you can't see. Well, I guess you can kind of see it up in the corner there. But you know, that it's funny how we, you know, and, and I guess bringing this back to the idea of being self reliant and being an entrepreneur is, is giving, you know, I guess, giving yourself permission to do those kind of things to walk in the woods four times a day, right? Some people will be like, oh, you know, John, you're not hustling or grinding or, you know, hashtag hustle life or whatever, like that's wasted time. But really what, you know, you've made the decision and giving yourself permission, you're comfortable with it

and okay to say, look, those four breaks make me better. And, you know, that feels like a big part of this work. Yeah. And I would argue, I mean, I would argue that the return on investment is so great that I'd actually, I'm actually giving myself time back, you know, by doing that is how I look at it. That's tremendous. So, you know, I want to be respectful of your time. And I also want people to buy this book because to me, it feels like, especially as, you know, as, as the idea of like, we need to be everywhere and we need to have everything turned on. And I know there's a lot of counter arguments to that, but it doesn't seem like everyone's listening. This feels like the type of work where I can have that daily reminder to, Hey, maybe it is a good idea that I turned notifications off for a while,

or maybe I should, you know, it is okay for me to drive home real quick and walk my dog in the middle of the day and take that time. Like this feels really important. I want people to go pick up the book. So if you were going to leave kind of just, just leave with like one final idea around self-reliance and how it applies to

business today. You know, it doesn't have to be the most important idea. It's just one idea that you think we haven't touched on. You know, what would that be? Well, I think the importance of, say, this format, and I'm not saying that you have to get this book, but the importance of this is that what self-reliance in some ways is a habit as much as anything else. And, you know, to form a habit, you have to practice, you have to stay with it, you have to give yourself, you know, the space to make it a daily practice. And so I think that, you know, it's not just about becoming self-reliant. It's just, you know, one of the themes in the book is, you know, the second we have all the answers, the second we know everything, you know, we're going to benefit the people around you that are your closest relationships are going to benefit. If you serve clients, you know, they're going to benefit from this work that you're doing on yourself every day. And, you know, I love that you picked that out because the

theme of this podcast in whole, the overarching theme is finding everyday peak performance and just those little things in the journey that help you get 1% better, right? To the goal that is unobtainable. And I couldn't agree with you more. Big, big recommendation of this show is Atomic Habits. And that fits right in there. Like couldn't agree more that finding habits that help us get to where we want to be is exactly the way to think about it. It almost feels like, and in particular, something like this,

where like, am I self-reliant? I have no idea, but I do know that I can work to becoming more self-reliant and I can make a habit out of efforting towards that place. And it's all relative and subjective anyways. So I love the I, I love the format. I think, I think, you know, when I, you know, when I was introduced to what you were doing and I saw that it was a daily practice and also I love the time, like sometimes daily practice books are like a 10 or 15 minute read and that feels a little overwhelming to me. But, um, uh, you know, that three to five minute range feels very achievable. I can pick it up, bam, get that in for the day, go jump in the shower, think a little bit about that idea, and then try to put it into practice. So, hey, John, I appreciate very much you coming on the

show, sharing your ideas with us. Where can people learn more about this particular work and then just you in general? So, the book, if you want to find just everything about the book, it's selfreliantentrepreneur.com. You know, reliant and entrepreneur are hard words for a lot of people to spell. But if you get close, you'll probably find it. Selfreliantentrepreneur.com. And then, of course, you probably can be led to it by many of the pages at ducttapemarketing.com. So that's just D-U-C-T-T-A-P-E marketing.com. Tremendous. And if you find it on ryanhanley.com, I'll have all the links there as well. But you don't have to go to mine, go directly to John's site. Man, I appreciate it. I'm glad that we were able to connect again. It's been a few years, but I've been following along with what you're doing. And I love just, you know, this, this feels like

a very natural evolution of your own of your own work. And, and I love it, man. So just thanks for coming on and sharing it with us. Congrats to you. Appreciate you. Be good. We'll be right back. Close twice as many deals by this time next week. Sound impossible? It's not. With the one-call-close system, you'll stop chasing leads and start closing deals in one call. This is the exact method we used to close 1,200 clients in under three years during the pandemic. No fluff, no endless follow-ups, just results fast.

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