The Ryan Hanley Show - RHS 056 - Jeff Roy Schooling the Game

Episode Date: August 16, 2020

Became a Master of the Close: https://masteroftheclose.comJeff Roy, easily one of the top three insurance agency owners in the world stops by the podcast to breakdown his world domination strategy... Oh and Jack Wingate bombs the podcast for the double treat of amazing. Get more: https://ryanhanley.comLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What up everybody and welcome back to the show. And I mean the show, the podcast. You are here and you're getting something special today. Not special because of anything I did. Special because I'm lazy. And what I mean by that is I recorded an episode that you've already heard if you listen to this show with Jack Wingate, and it was amazing. And I got to the end of that episode, and I hit stop record,

and then as always, we kept chatting about a couple different things. And then I had daisy-chained episodes, so meaning I had scheduled Jack Wingate, and then right after Jack Wingate, I had scheduled Jeff Roy. Yes, that Jeff Roy. Well, me and Jack are bullshitting and Jeff Roy pops into the Zoom and then we just started rapping, all of us, all three of us started rapping and I just hit the record button. And frankly, we didn't even really talk about a lot of the stuff that I wanted to talk about with Jeff because Jack was there in the most positive way. We're just rapping and going and talking about stuff that insurance

people talk about. And it was one of those moments that I felt had to be captured. It's such a pleasure to share this moment with you because I feel like this is the way really forward-thinking, forward-leaning insurance agency owners think. This is where their minds are. This is what the conversations are like over a glass of whiskey or a couple beers or whatever when we can actually get together. It's just such a pleasure to share with you. I mean, quite literally, this is why I do this podcast

is being able to share moments like this with you. And I wish I could share more of them with you, but glad that I got this one to be able to give to you. And I hope that you learned something and I hope that you take something away, and I hope you connect with Jack and connect with Jeff, and I hope it helps you grow your business. Before we get there, though, I want to give a real quick shout-out to Advisor Evolved. Chris Langell and his team at Advisor Evolved do an incredible job.

I get questions all the time about, Ryan, who built your website? Who built your website? And I tell them, there is no other website option in the insurance industry other than Advisor Evolved. There are other website providers, but if you're looking to actually grow your business, then you need Advisor Evolved. You need to be part of the community, you need the product, and you need

all the tools that come with an Advisor Evolved website. Go to advisorsrevolved.com or just Google Advisor Evolved or Google Chris Langell. Most likely you'll get a picture of him on the Jersey shore doing his thing. But I mean, that's an inside joke. He's from Philly actually. But Chris is an incredible guy. He grew up in the independent insurance industry world. He transitioned that into a love for website design and has built the website product for independent insurance agents. Get an Advisor Evolved website today if you don't have one. You are losing business if you do not have an Advisor Evolved website because people aren't finding you. And I have an Advisor Evolved website. There was a no-brainer for me. He was my first call. And I just highly recommend Chris Langell and Advisory Evolved.

And with that, I give you Jeff Roy, Jack Wingate, and myself just wrapping insurance. And then I was looking at Tech Canary and then Applied by Tech Canary. So Seth's working on getting us integrated with Applied. Hopefully that works because Applied's got 70% of the market up here, and they've got the best rating. So we're 80% personal lines. I can't live without their rater, so I have to love them. And, meanwhile, they're gouging the shit out of me on price, but can't fix it, right?

So I'm not a big Applied fan, but I have to love them and move on, right? Yeah. I knew that you were kind of in that beta i was i didn't i knew that you were kind of in that beta group i didn't know that you didn't have the full thing i mean yeah is it is are you doing what you thought it would do well it will once i got the setup like nobody's really set up marketing cloud for insurance that i know so we we the good thing is we're doing a lot of really kick-ass marketing stuff we've already got the marketing, but it's in 10 different devices. So we're taking 10 into one, and we're going to have the data once that's done.

And I think we're going to be able to help a lot of the other agents because I thought most of the other agents were doing what we're doing, and I'm finding out that we're doing a lot more stuff than the average Joe. So we're going to help other agents, and they're going to help us. They're going to have some cool shit like, hey, this is working in Canada. I'm going to grab that and bring it North of the border. And as I always say, Canadian eyes it and vice versa, they'll be American eyes and stuff. So it should work pretty decent, but yeah.

So things are okay. Like you said, never content, never happy, but we're progressing. And you know, as you said, as an owner, never, there's no finish line, you know, as soon as you think hit the finish line, that's when the truck hits you in the side of the head. So you can't say complacent, you can't not do anything and you can't cruise and that's what I mean we're just grinding right now I've never grinded ever I always keep saying I've never grinded so hard but I'm grinding because there really isn't much else I can do anyway you know I can go sit by my pool and hang out but I can't really travel I can't go to the U.S. can't go

anywhere like you know I'm going to a friend's cottage this summer for a couple days. That's my holiday. We plan to go away a few places, but that's all kibosh. The good thing is work on our business and make sure our people are safe and help out in our community. That's kind of our gig. My wife said she knew I always worked hard.

I'm working in the basement right now, dude. Yeah, pretty damn good basement. I like all the video stuff, man. You got the sweet road mic back there, Hanlon? Yeah, like you shoot – You shoot a road mic. You shoot like X-rated movies down there? You get all the stuff?

Oh, yeah. But, you know, she was like, I knew you worked hard, but, you know, having you be in here for, what what three or four or five straight months she's like you don't stop you know and it's like you said though i mean if i was if i still had to go out and just all i did was sell policies i'd shoot myself in the head but there's always a different challenge every day so i'm you know that's what keeps you that's what keeps it exciting because there's always i like solving something that hasn't been solved or blazing a trail and you know i i like being uncomfortable because I always seem to be uncomfortable. That's

the gig I'm kind of getting used to it. But that's good. Like, you know, as I said, you're solving problems. You know, you mentioned about bottlenecks. Like I look back to critical paths, you know, operation management from business school, you're always trying to find the bottleneck of the critical path. And as you grow, that path moves around and you're always trying to fix a new problem. Like it's like a video game i put a thing on twitter about donkey kong and you're going up different levels right and the donkeys turn the barrels at you and sometimes you get whomped you get thrown down but you get back up and you figure a way to beat the level and then you're going damn i'm good get to the next level it's like holy shit i don't know what i'm doing and then then

you try to find the smartest person in the room or somebody who's already done it, and you say, hey, how did you do it? And then you rob and duplicate and make it your own like American Idol. It's like becoming an artist, right? You've got to go on the road, play your songs, grind it out. That's kind of what we're doing, right? That's probably the best way I can give analogies to how to do it, right? You know, Jeff, one of the things that Jack and I were talking about during when I was interviewing Jack was that it feels

like and this is a I don't want to say the because I don't think that's appropriate. But this is a golden age or we're entering a potential golden age for independent agents. And the impetus for this is not just technology, which I think is the obvious answer. But what you just said, which is our willingness as agents to share so deeply and so openly what we're doing in our businesses with each other so that the people who are searching for solutions can find them and make them their own in their agency do you agree with that yeah 100 like you know it's like we're a big linux i'm throwing the code out there we're all writing the code together and you know i read, I read the article for Hanley, right,

for his last agent standing. Actually, do you want to do a screen share? Throw me a screen share. Can you screen share it? I'll show you something cool. I think you just have to request it or something. You have to make me the presenter, so right-click and make me the host. I know, Ryan, you're always in control, but we're going to flip it over.

Today, the part of Ryan Hanley will be played by Jeff Roy. I'm okay with that. All right. I'm just teasing. I like this. I don't even have to do anything. This is like the best episode ever. Jack just interviews Jeff.

I just sit here and listen. It's great. I'm going to show you this just quickly. Can you see that? Yeah. Can you see that PDF or not? Yeah. The customer journey. can you see that yeah can you see that pdf or not yeah the customer journey can you see all this I see Hanley downturn okay that's not making me feel super good no it's not what these notes are those

yeah it's the typo no no downturn this is Hanley slash and then then there's J-A-C-K-A-S-S. And I was like, what is going on here? Come on. No, no. It's all good, buddy. I'm just trying to find my – why is PDF not coming up? Interesting. Just a second.

One thing. I guess my PDF is on the wrong screen. Didn't know how sensitive this was. Give me one second. I don't want to take too much of your time, but I just want to see if I can get this to pop up. Anytime I can fit in on a group of Jeff Roy and Ryan Hanley, I'm just going to sop it up.

Ah, there we go. Sorry, I had the wrong thing open, but give me one second. I'll even show you my throat punch shirt. Boom. Nice. Oh, it sounds to me like a Motorhead shirt. It's pretty cool you know we're by which road he's going on the road so i was wearing it for my last podcast that

we're doing a canadian podcast called the digital insurance pint and uh seth sent me a shirt and i wore it in the podcast but i don't know nobody really asked me what it meant so it's too bad but give me one second i'll bring this up that is weird i just i don't like how this screen shares yeah you can pick like your entire monitor or you can pick very specific uh like it didn't come up because i had different versions of this but let me try this again screen share all right there we go can you see see that? In one second? It's going to give you a – okay, you're going to see that now. Oh, here comes something. You see that?

Yeah, now I can see it. We're building a – my article on preparedness, we're building customer journey maps where you go from awareness to consideration and all that stuff. We're building out journeys. So this is our 17-page document. We're focusing on parents of young children, and we're trying to move them through the funnel awareness interest consideration action purchase and then we've looked at three

segments so we took seth or not seth but jay bear's five by five model and we just came up with three resource trained parents do the right thing parents and balls in the air parents and then we looked at the segments of you know why they're trying to stretch the dollar we kind of explain them then we break it down for awareness we start writing blogs and we have questions that we answer in each segment so we're going to create videos we're going to create blogs i've got another page about a 10 page document our team put together hey at this stage what does it look like well we have a video to pop up we might have you know some ads on facebook that that communicate parents so so we've kind of gone through the whole journey where we talk about you know the interest you

know some parents we're going to talk about being frugal so we went through the whole journey in terms of different pages and segments and basically figured out what to do in the entire journey and then at each spot they can jump into a funnel and that way basically we hopefully they go I want to jump in and get it right from these guys these guys complete me so we're building a set we're building about probably about 25 pieces of content that we all interconnected and we're building a content journey to go after these personas to see if we can bring in a better class of business and then we've then after we do that we're going to apply it to dinks which means double income no kids we're going to apply the

same process and some of the articles will work we just need to write it towards double income, no kids. We're going to apply the same process. And some of the articles will work. We just need to write it towards double income versus family. So that's kind of where we're at right now. We're going to put this on marketing cloud and hopefully this drives traffic like we've never done a better quality of business. We find we can bring quality business in, but it's not always quality. 900 leads for three or 400 or shit. We don't want to write, but we're still bringing that business in. Or I shouldn't say shit, but not, not super quality, right? Our we don't want to write but we're still bringing that business and or i shouldn't say it's shit but not not super quality right our markets don't really want that

so and then we find we get 50 of our leads we actually get in touch with so some of the people are just playing around so out of 900 leads is what 450 500 serious leads and then we have to once we we really work those leads well but we get a lot of stuff like the shaft like i guess when you're panning for gold a lot of stuff flies. Like I guess when you're panning for gold, a lot of stuff flies out of the thing when you're panning, looking for the gold. And that's kind of the process we got. So we're just trying to refine that right now.

But I thought you'd find that kind of cool. We got this, I didn't go through, we got a 17 page document that we're working through and working through a persona, building all this content journey, like videos, blogs,

whatever we need to do. And then we have a funnel that when they click on it it'll look like a family and it'll speak their language so hopefully when we get somebody into that funnel they're going wow these guys got me and we may have contests and uh one of the things we're doing i don't tell anybody but we're doing a night a coloring book uh for the night the excalibur night coloring book we're going to give out our new business kids these kids will color it'll tell a story story in there and you know one of our staff said the vet gave me a book when I was nine and I still haven't at this day

because I love that coloring book and it meant a lot to me so never thought of a coloring book so we're gonna build a coloring book out like how many insurance brokers have built a coloring book right so but we're gonna do it because it's on brand and people get it in their new business kit it'll be kind of a experience nobody else will get and meanwhile the the book will talk about we looked at that everything i learned i learned in kindergarten we could take those messages and put it into a book for kids and actually you know they're coloring plus they're learning stuff at the same time so that's kind of one of the projects we're working on it's kind of deep but hopefully at the end of the day

everybody's like wow these guys get me and they get into our funnel and we write them and we maintain them as clients. Hey, Jeff, is that – I'm sorry, Ryan. No, you're fine. Is that your normal, like, identify a niche? So right there you identified this niche of parents. Is that your normal workflow? Or is this like, hey, let's try this? Because, I mean, that's an in-depth funnel and strategy.

We're trying this for the first time. I'm just sharing with you what we're doing. We've never done this. We're running AdWords right now, driving people to landing pages. We're getting $7 and $8 clicks. Actually, more like $4 or $5 clicks. We're generating $10 to $11 leads on pay-per-click.

And we're closing probably 10%, which is $100 acquisition cost which is cool like that's working well we're getting about 300 to 500 organic leads through our website a month so that just comes in and we again you can't control what comes in through your website uh as much you write content you drive people but it's good stuff comes in bad stuff comes in but the good thing is it continues to turn. We just have to keep working on the SEO. But we've never actually said, hey, this niche we want to really go after. Like we, the one thing Excalibur hasn't done well is we're not niching anything.

And we don't have any affinity groups. And we're just good at personal lines. And we have a really good process and we have a good brand. But we don't really go after, you know, group plans and stuff like that. We've never done well at that or been able to kick ass or affinity programs. And that's something we'd like to bring on board in the next year, if we can get this dialed in. But if we're going to be the people that, Hey,

families Excalibur gets us and go after that whole thing. And people go, wow, Excalibur understands me. I didn't click through. I want to know more because they're speaking my language that, because most right now our content is generic and it speaks to everybody. Like, you know, Hey, we've got defenders, blah, defenders blah blah blah but i'm speaking of the pain points of a family member like hey you've got no sleep last night you got an hour to do your insurance it's five o'clock you've got three hours sleep and is your insurance broker there can i book an appointment

we have all that stuff right there for people to consume to hopefully get them into the funnel right we actually speak what their pain points are and we address it with our services and we speak the language of parent. That's what we're trying to do. So this is something that, again, I'm just riffing with you guys. We haven't figured out if this is going to work. I wrote an article about agents writing random acts of content

where they'll write a fucking kick-ass blog about whatever and then they get some SEO traffic. But I have a picture that shows basically uh you know a fantasy island or a beautiful island a deserted island and then basically a shark's mouth where the shark mouth the contents crap and eat you that the uh the bacon island or the isolated i didn't go there's one great content you're stuck there and then if you have multiple in the content experience you get a resort and you basically get people into the three buckets. So we're trying to figure out the resort concept where we have a,

we, we parachute people into a good experience and hopefully they consume stuff and they, they, we answer their questions. They jump into our funnel and we connect with them. That's what we're trying to do. So that's what my article in a nutshell is what I wrote for,

for a pair of easels, a magazine. And I talk about this now we're actually this is the first time we've actually applied it at this depth and I have no idea if it's going to work but I think it's going to work better than what we're doing now to bring people in but I'll know a lot more in the next three to five months when we

roll it out we test it we fail it doesn't work and I'm pissed off we have to tweak things but that's kind of the things I just wanted to share with you guys to see what you thought yeah and I think so for us I started doing this at the beginning of the year to a way, way lesser extent than what you're talking about. But for us, putting content out was always just sort of a freaking shotgun approach. Like, hey, I'm going to write about this today or whatever.

And so I had Jared over here hammering out Instagram because he loves that. And so our messaging was all disjointed. And so kind of selfishly, I knew I needed to tweak some of our content pages, like the workers' comp page or whatever. So I would pick a theme of the week, and we still do it to this day, and it's helped us tremendously. So this week it's workers' comp. So everything we post on social is all going to be built around this one thing which

is basically like what taking what you did is is taking that up about 15 000 notches but i think that's where a lot of people mess up is that there's no plan for their content it's just sort of rapid fire i'm gonna throw this out there and see if it sticks instead of kind of like what hanley was saying like he doesn't promote his content as well as he should it's the same thing it's kind of what's the strategy and the plan and once you that's half the battle right there well it's a flip because people look at you know our SEO guy can say hey here's the 10 topics people are talking about I need to have an article about that and you write an article and hope somebody shows up and you might have a call to action on the page but what's the next step they don't want to take your call

to action they're done they'll bail so a lot to action on the page, but what's the next step? If they don't want to take your call to action, they're done. They'll bail. So a lot of people consume one page, they're gone, right? And that's the bad content journey where if you can build, you know, once they're here, here's eight other questions they may ask, and you actually have them linked into that page and they consume it, then that's content journey. And I went to a thing called Uber Flip last year in August, and I was the only insurance guy there to like 900 people and that's where I learned a connex about hey here's how marketers do it here's what b2b b2c look like and I started speaking a different language and just being around those people taught me wow we we don't get it at all you know our page looks kind of cute and uh our brand's good but we're just not our content's not nailing it so everybody's

talking about blog blog blog well blog's good but you we're just not, our content's not nailing it. So everybody's talking about blog, blog, blog. Well, blog's good, but you've got to blog with purpose. You've got to create the journey. So that's where I think everybody's got hung up. They wrote a couple of blogs. Nothing's happening. They give up. And it's like doing a workout program.

I'm going to go to P90X and do three days and want to look jacked. Or I'm going to do CrossFit. I want to go to CrossFit for three days and be in the, and win a competition. It doesn't work that way. And that's a problem right now. I think a lot of people just, they want the easy fix and they don't want to do the hard work and they don't want to learn like this is this hard stuff. Like I just, you know, it's not easy stuff and I don't know if it's going to work awesome. There's a lot of, there's risk involved and we're spending a lot of money and time on it, but I feel it's the right path

and I feel it's going to be better than what we have. And I think we're taking a step up from what we were doing before. So I'm confident that it's secure. When Jay Baer says, here's what you need to do, we took his formula. It's a 230-page book.

If you want me to send you the PDF, Jack, happy to send it to you, Ryan. Please do. I've got it. I can flip it over to you. I think I got your email, Jack. I'm not sure if not. I know I to you, Ryan. I've got it. I can flip it over to you. I think I got your email, Jack. I'm not sure if not. I know I got you on Facebook. So flip me a messenger and I'll flip it over to you. I can do a we transfer, but it's good. And again, we had to, we looked at it and then the problem is we tried executing it. It was harder trying to come up with the questions in each

category than we thought. And then what does the content look like? Come up with the questions. You just answer it with a blog? No, you got to have some video. You have some variety. So that's kind of what we're going through. And I don't know if it's going to work, but at least we're going to try. And as I always tell people,

launch, learn, fail, fix, right? What's amazing to me about that, Jeff, is that I'm sure it's the same way in Canada, but I can sit around here and I can Google, you know, insurance agent, Winston-Salem, North Carolina. And if I find people's websites, if I can sit around here and I can Google, you know, insurance agent Winston-Salem, North Carolina. And if I find people's websites, if I can find them, they're crap. I've been to your website. It was a good website to begin with.

It wasn't just a pretty picture that a lot of people like to throw up there. I mean, it had content. And Jeff just said, you know, it's not just about doing blogs. You know, it's got to be deeper than that. I mean, you're the one percent of people and gosh i hope i'm getting there at some point in time that understand that it's not just about doing the minimal work you've taken what no one else is doing and said shit this doesn't work it's not good enough i gotta do better i mean he said he said jack he said you know he got 900 leads in one month.

And people are going to hear that and go, how the hell did he do that? What are you doing? What's your secret? And then you hear it's an 18-page breakout document outlining a customer journey with personas and questions and second and third tier content with multimedia follow-ups, hard follow-ups. I mean, that's how you get to that level. And I think in general, we talked a little bit about this during our thing too, like so many people are looking for that quick fix. And the answer every time with every person who you talk to who's successful in any regard,

the answer is always, I went deeper than everybody else for longer than everybody else. And that, and eventually I got there. That is always the answer. And I mean, that's, Jeff, you've been diving into this stuff for a decade. I mean, we've been talking about content for 10 years. So it's not like this is, you know what I mean? And it shouldn't turn anyone off. You know, I don't want people to hear that and go, well, geez, you know, I'm screwed because I, you know, I don't, 10 years. But you can get really far fast, but then that next level I think is what takes a lot of work, but, but get

really far fast, like do the work, put, put some work in, in time and start to think about it. And there, there's some hacks, like, you know, again, you have to grind it out. There's no such thing as an overnight success. And, you know, Malcolm Godwell's 10,000 hours. You look at all those things, but there are some hacks to get through it. And again, the hacks are your agent friends that have tried things and learning, jumping on their learning curve. And, uh, I think was it reader rabbit, uh, or task rabbit, sorry learning curve. And I think, was it Read a Rabbit? Or Task Rabbit, sorry, Read a Rabbit. I think that was a video game or a book, but Task Rabbit. They talked about the power of the human cloud,

where a lot of people would go on board, they would have a task, people would hire them. And what happened is all the people on the board started sharing skills. So I might've had one skill and I shared it and I could do 10 different things. So they're sharing and monetized everybody else. jeff roy was good at mowing lawns before you know it he's a handyman and he can do 10 more things his revenue went up 10 times why because he shared and he was part of a bigger collective and that's where the agents that would be successful going to be part

of a bigger collective they're going to share and that's you've seen pockets you know you get classes agency intelligence you got iaoa there's a bunch of different groups out there that work together now some of them got really big so some of that sharing is hard because it's so big right you need a almost a smaller group people set up a mastermind group right the power of the mastermind whatever it is you do but the more times you're out there running into people belly to belly face to face and again in the covid world zoom to zoom or uh go-to meeting to go-to meeting the more chance you have of stumbling upon man i never thought of it that way or that idea worked for them why isn't it working for me or you know better yet that person wow they don't i can't believe they're

doing it if they can do it i can do it right like there's a lot of that stuff right like but you know a lot of times people look like they make it look really easy but it's kind of like the duck that looks calm in the surface and the legs are going crazy below there's a lot more below the iceberg or the water than most people see and that's where it's just about grinding it out right and it's not being scared to fail i know everybody wants to not fail i think the only reason we're starting to get a little bit better is we're not scared to fail. We're still trying stuff. We're not sitting around waiting for,

you know, things to fly into our hands and, you know, just, we're not waiting for things to come to us. We're trying to make things happen and we're trying to do things. And a lot of, you know,

I bet you I've had way more failures than most people in the last year. That's why we learned, right? Like I'm just failing fast, fast failure, right? Fail forward, whatever you want to say, just back. I feel like I'm giving one of my talks, but it's the same thing, right? Like I'm just failing fast, fast failure, right? Fail forward, whatever you want to say, just back.

I feel like I'm giving one of my talks, but it's the same thing, right? Like it's what you do. It's gotta be part of your DNA. And as soon as that's part of your culture and your DNA, the chances are you can accelerate and get through things a little bit quicker. And then you're going to hit walls. Like I keep, I'm in a wall right now. We have to scale train better. Our training isn't good enough. And I'm trying to figure out how I can put everything online videos, you know, basically, and then I heard about quantum, uh, Jeff Shea or whatever, uh, he's killing it. You know, he's my new superhero and I met him during COVID. He's

part of our mastermind group. I reached out to him and him and I had chatted during COVID and he was going to get me some masks for my area. He got a line on it. We did, we got to know each other just over COVID and i'm looking forward to circling back but i look at what he's done for training and we have to as agents acknowledge if you listen to uh cast talk to his assistant i forget what her name was off quantum she did a great webinar about how they're changing yeah kayla heger she she killed it in my opinion i was at water in the my plants in hot heat, listening to her with my Bose headset on. I couldn't stop it because I'm like, wow, this is a person that solved

one of the things I'm not good enough. I'm going to reach out to Caitlin. I think it's education out of assurance. Written down in the email somewhere. That's on my list to do. I haven't had time this week, but before Friday's up, I'm going to reach out to her and Jeff and say, I want to learn how you guys do it. I want to open up the hood because you guys are doing it way better than me. I'm the first one to say, Hey, we're not good enough.

Show me something better. And likewise, if somebody needs help, I'm the first one to say, here's what we're doing. You know, here's what's worked. I openly share with people. I've always done that. Right. And it's always the law of sharing reciprocity for agents. whatever you give comes back in spades. I think that's something that if more people could learn that, and I wish the past generation shared a little bit more, because there wasn't as much sharing my dad's generation, you know, he was scared, he was by himself, he's a business guy, he didn't have anybody to share with. And that's a very lonely existence and difficult. I look at all of us on the phone here, you know, Jack, Ryan, you know, we've got a pretty good network of friends. And if you can't figure it out, you don't know

something, you can pick up the phone and there's 30 people you can call to help you. And every one of them will help you, you know, but nobody ever asked. Everybody's too humble to ask. Yeah. It's, it's, it's ego. And, and I, and I, what I love about, um, the network of people that I feel blessed to be part of, you two are in that, but there's hundreds, if not more, thousands maybe. this segment, this, this particular group of agents and agency owners that are pushing up through is, is that there, there is so much less ego. It's, it's not when you go to events, it's not, you know, everyone's walk. Well, I did this much premium this year and, oh, you know, I made the gold club of Safeco or, you know what I mean? I mean, that's the kind of stuff. My dad's bigger than your dad. Yeah. Yeah. You'd be like, oh, you know, my agency's been around for 100 years, and mine's been around for 107 years.

And it's like no one cares anymore. You know what I mean? Like you walk around and you're talking about every aspect of your business, and people are open about it, and they're like, you say, you know, we're struggling to train. Ten years ago, you saying that, people would be looking at you going, Oh, look at Jeff's agency. Screwed. Look at the weakness. You know, he can't train his people. You know what I mean? That's, that would be the mentality. But today I feel like so much of that

has been brushed aside where people are now like, what's going to happen is they're going to hear that and they're going to go, Oh my God, I got this great training platform. I'll share this with you. You'll be bombarded with people helping you find solutions for how to distribute what you want them to know. Like that's, I feel like that has flipped. It's one of the things that makes me the most happy about where we are as an industry is that just in my time in the industry,

which has not been that long, 13 years, 14 years, I feel like from then to now, the difference in terms of the ego that people have for their business, the openness, the willingness to share, that has gone 180 degrees. It's almost like who can share the most and in a positive way. And I just love that about where we're at because it allows someone like me who I've failed a million more times than I've ever been successful. But it's only because and every time that happens, I get to call one of you guys and go, hey, man, what am I screwing up here? This thing isn't working. And, and I, and, and then you, everyone else is

willing to take that call and share how they fix the problem. Well, the funny thing, and I don't, I'm sure Jeff, you're the same way. I don't know because you do it at such a high level, but like Jason Kilgo, he, like we've become, I guess, somewhat good friends. And he called me up and said, Hey, do you have some time to show me your video setup. Someone wanted to know my video setup. I was like, okay, come on now. But, you know, so he calls me because he wants some help and I'm more than willing to give it. And then what inevitably happens is I start talking to him

about what he's doing in his business and I pick up something. So it's, you know, we've reached that point where it's, if someone would just ask, you're not infringing upon someone's time. I can guarantee you most of the people that I know, you know, it's, it's, we've reached that point where it's, if someone would just ask, you're not infringing upon someone's time. I can guarantee you most of the people that I know, you know, Jeff included, you more than willing to help because they know one, it's betters all of us, but also you're going to pick something up too. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's a great world we live in.

No, I know that, uh, you know, my 31 years, I just celebrated 31 years of broker got my license at 18 and uh you know when i first started there wasn't a lot of stuff like my dad had a george nordhaus uh binder on his wall uh ims service i think it was called at that point and it's funny because i hooked up with him five years ago and i told him i thought that book was the first thing i saw in marketing for insurance and we didn't have any marketing. We didn't even have a computer. I put the first computer in our office back in like 89. And, you know, but back then there wasn't,

I didn't have this group of people. There was no internet. Like the internet really changed the game because you could find people all over the world once people learned how to do it. And people were never closer to find people and you could hook up with people. I didn't have that opportunity. It wasn't probably till 2010.

My last 10 years is when I really hooked up with people. And that's when the good stuff started to happen. Right. And I was in a, I would say a vacuum or a cloud. I didn't have the great, like I just like, I look at it. Wow. If I had all these people now when I was younger, man, what the difference that would be. And I don't dwell on that, but I'm like, you know what? I want to make sure that I'm, you know, I try and help people as much as I can because I didn't have that access.

So I want to make sure that I can help and give back in any way I can for people that matter. Right. Cause I just, there wasn't much around and, you know, I don't want other people to be in a vacuum and, you know, not see the light. And we want to try and help agency owners get to another level. Right. It's all about getting up in levels and, you know, it's not the numbers that defines you it's what you do to define the numbers you know basically what grind you're doing you know the culture everything you've built that's what it's all about it's about enjoying the work

and it's not about the destination that's about the journey along the way right and you have good people and you surround yourself with good people at work and your friends I always say you become the six people we hang out with the most choose wisely it's really important that you surround yourself with good people because this business will beat you up if you're surrounded by bad people and none of us it's hard enough to do this business if you're doing everything well but surrounding yourself with bad people can be very difficult so yeah cool that was a little fun session just kind of happened in nowhere right happened to know where I didn't mean to take up all the interview. I'm sure it was great. I had no idea what we were running.

And we were going to talk about where we're getting caught up. So I had no, no idea. Any chance I can get to have you on the show is a win for me. I, you know, I always have a very small agenda. And my what I was really what I really was interested in is the podcast and your idea. Your I was interested. I mean, this I love the content journey stuff. But this whole idea and the fact that you've started a podcast and that you're reaching out into the market and that you're taking that time to do that. I'm interested in that mindset because I've seen, I'm starting to see, like I have a local podcast that I do, but I've been podcasting since 2013.

I, you know, I'm, it comes kind of naturally to me seeing you. And I think Lipstone is starting a podcast and I've seen some other people start in local or niche podcasts and I'm just interested in the mentality. Like what's the, what's the, what's the motivation behind it? What's getting you excited about it to go and do that work? Cause it's work, you know, it's work like anything else. Yeah. Well, and again, I have different opportunities, but I doing it myself and putting the time in and focusing, I just don't have the time to block off. So I needed a team.

And Adam Mitchell, a good broker friend of mine, Mitchell Wales Insurance, he's won the Ontario Broker of the Year, young gun, super good guy, good friend of mine from probably the last five or six years in the industry. Him and I chatted about, let's do a podcast, let's do a podcast. And then we both got too busy, squirrels, things happen. Cut no time to do a podcast let's do a podcast and then we both got too busy squirrels things happen you know cut no time to do a podcast it's not easy so our friend tom reed who used to run the digital brokers uh for aviva the guy brought people adam and i knew each other but he brought steve earl in who's a broker from eastern canada that started up a he has a traditional brokerage and started a broker called cheap up from scratch and we were all friends and we would sit there and riff and we would get together twice a year

and talk geek out on insurance and talk about it probably 24 7 and you know we all had very strong opinions so we thought let's put a podcast together so it was going to be the digital insurance beer and then uh we said you know a pint sounds a little more sophisticated and you know the time it takes to drink a beer we're going to try and share knowledge and experience with people from three digital brokers that have kind of differing journeys, but all have a different perspective of what it's like to change your brokerage. And yeah, we've done, I think we've done eight or nine episodes now we've got a website now we're

not live, so we're going to announce it. I'm not sure when this will air Ryan, but I might have to tell you to put this in the archive for a bit until we at least launch the digital insurance pint. But, yeah, that's what we're going to do, and we're just tackling, like, paperless. Going paperless to the consumer is a huge issue right now in Canada because our companies are saying, hey, we want to cut the paper off. And they're doing it during COVID when most of us aren't super equipped to do it or we were equipped with, it's going to take some time. So we're,

that's an example of an issue we talked about on the podcast and all four of us have strong opinions. We're trying to have a bit of fun with it. So, you know, I don't think we're trying to change the world with it. We're not trying to go worldwide and, you know,

we're not trying to be like the insurance guys, insurance dudes are like Ryan Hanley, but we just think that there's an opportunity to talk about stuff you know there's a thing in Canada called hockey night in Canada where they have the hot stove lounge where three or four people in the industry talk about what's going on and share insights that's kind of what it is and we will invite some people on so you might be getting a call next year guys we're just trying to get through season one and yeah it's it's it's fun you know as you said it's not easy

you got to make sure you're i didn't say easy but you got we got to prepare your script and your topics and uh but uh the one thing nobody in our phone or our group is shy of is having an opinion yeah and uh we have experience we've all been there so it's good and everybody's sharing back to what we talked about earlier it's a sharing economy it's sharing ideas and insights and you know we're doing it you know for the better of the industry and get some viewpoints out there because I don't think some of the companies and vendors listen to brokers and agents enough. You know, things are done to us, not with us. And we need to change that narrative. And one of my things the last number of years is I want to change the narrative. I want to be at the table.

I want to make sure the broker viewpoint is there. And I talk about the three legs of the stool. There's only been really two legs and you know how stable a two-legged stool is. Not very stable. That broker agent being the third stool with the company and vendors makes all the difference. And you want to put a fourth leg on it. You can get into a cord, CZO, the standards. That's the perfect, you know, the perfect four, four legs of the steel that gives you that stability. And in the past, I got to say people have making decisions without other parties in mind, and they're putting themselves first. And, you know, it's got to be a win, win, win, win for everybody. So that's, I'm hopeful that we can get more dialogue, make people understand things, and we can continue to build better stuff and better experiences for consumers right you know that particular topic um you know i look at tools like tarmica which i'm

obviously uh an enormous fan of and um actually today uh my interview with ragged from the founder you know co-founder tarmica just went live and um uh i see that as a tool that can help force the broker opinion to the table. And the reason I say that is, just in my four months that I've been doing this right on my own. I get a small business account in $2,000 in premium. I got to go to Liberty and I got to go to Hartford. And then I got to log in Hanover system, which forces me to go on to a whole different computer to do that. Cause it only works on internet explorer. And then I got to go in, then I got to come back over to this computer to go to this company. And then eventually I just get bored of that and I just pick one of them and I go. And they know that that's the way it is.

And then you take a tool like Tarmaca, which completely democratizes that process, right? One single entry point for multiple quotes. So now it becomes, now it's not just whose system do I go to first? It's I'm staring at your rates side by side with six other companies. And now my job as the broker is to decide which one of you is the best for my client. And things start to matter beyond just, is my system the first one that you go to? Or is it my system, you know, the most UI friendly or whatever, like, like, it no longer does these kind of almost like, you know, I don't even know what the right way to say it is like anecdotal

items, they don't matter anymore, right? Now it's I'm staring at the prices, you're $250 higher, that doesn't even mean that i won't sell your policy but i actually get now to determine what's going to be best for my client because i don't have to spend all this time trying to figure out who's where and what it's all it's all standing in front of me and i look at that and that to me says more, as more agents and brokers start to adopt these tools, it's going to put pressure on the carriers to build deeper relationships with the agents so that they're picked out of the list versus before where it was like, oh, we sent you, you know, on this one trip. So now you choose us all the time. And because of that, now you're kind of, you know, we're kind

of your, you know, a master to a certain extent, because you want to go on that golf trip again. Yeah. You know, I'm just hoping I see that as a step in the right direction. Does that make sense? Does that logic follow? Or do you? Yeah, no, exactly. Makes sense. You know, once the companies, the rules of the game, the things are increasing right now, The bar is being risen. So you need to have an open API. You need to connect things like Tarmaca. If you're not, you're out of the game. The companies that don't will be left behind. It used to be, who's got a better portal?

That was company centric. That was to their advantage because the agent had to learn a bunch of portals, but the best portal won. And the one that got the job done, he went to and got it done. But is that best for the for the consumer no it's best for the agent and the company with the best portal now with tarmaco with an open api you can shop all the markets you can give your consumer the right advice you can make it quickly it can it can uh it can happen you can make it go

right so all positive things to do right so and and that's just and i don't mean to overstress tarmaca i know people probably sick of hearing it on this i just i'm very excited about it there are other tools that do similar things but it's these types of technology that are democratizing this process that i think help equal the playing field for all partners the the carrier the customer, the customer, and the agent. Yeah. Well, and because I sat on a couple of the task forces with carriers, they shoot themselves in the foot a lot of times because they'll spend half a billion dollars on their portal, on their rating systems, you know, to stay in their little box

where they could spend a fraction of the money, open their API to someone like a Tarmaca, you know, and it not matter what your portal does. You know what I mean? It's like, wait a second, but they're afraid that if they get out there and exposed and, you know, the advisor is just going to pick a price. Nah, that's, that's the way it used to be maybe, but moving forward, that's the, that's the way it used to be maybe, but moving forward, that's the sandbox they got to play in. And I think that that's the way it used to be because you didn't have time to go to all seven portals. You just simply did not have time to individually log information into all,

you know, if you only had 7K. So you would just go, I'm pretty sure Liberty's the lowest and their portal's the easiest. So I'm just going to do that one. And maybe I'll do Hartford too, just to kind of keep them honest. And I'll just tell the other carriers that they didn't get a shot at this one for whatever reason. I mean, that's not the best for the agency. It's certainly not best for the customer. And it's really not, it's ultimately not even the best for the agency. It's certainly not best for the customer. And it's really not, it's ultimately not even the best for the carrier because the carrier starts having risks that they don't even want shoved down their throat because it's just the most convenient system to use. Yeah. The game's leveling up. Just like I talked about agencies going through cycle,

the game's through in cycle everything gets improved the margins get cut things get more efficient like that i call we call it the plumbing of the industry where you're just connecting data back and forth there's no reason why companies should be competing on the plumbing we should make it open and easy to go through the companies can compete on the data and the stuff behind the scenes that's where the fun happens how they brand you know the features they put into their product that kind of stuff and again you can spend time talking about features and do more risk management if you're not spending your team's not spending time going into seven portals which nobody's going to go into seven portals we know that on a small account you know and again

the other accounts are being sent out by fax or i would say more by email and pdf excel spreadsheet word or if you have a tarmica that's being marketed that way, right? In Canada, we have PolicyWorks, a few other ways to market accounts, but they still go out and the person is still a fairly automated process. And, you know, as we get more and more of the keystrokes out of it, you know, if you cut the keystrokes, you can improve the time and the hands-on with the client and giving advice and doing that kind of stuff

and building that customer experience, right? And improving the agent experience. Like. And improving the agent experience. Like everybody talks about the customer experience. The agent is a customer too. And I just don't think enough focus has been given to that to make it good for us. You know, it's like, I just got to make it better than the other company, like a percent, but after I'm a percent better, I'm not going to go any further.

There's not a lot of companies that really drilled into it and really look at, Hey, I want to wow my broker at every touch point. There be in the u.s but you know i asked agents how many companies did anything for you during covid you did stuff for your clients we got a lot of memos i had a few companies actually reach out and phone us uh you know which was great they phoned out make sure we're okay i had two or three companies that actually reach out with a phone call which was great but how many companies largely reached out? Jack, did you have a lot of companies reach out? Just Erie did a great job of reaching out and actually saying, hey,

they actually gave us $1,000. It's not a huge thing, but it's not garbage. And said, look. Company did something and gave you money? Wow, in Canada, that would be the only company. Because they market share give us advertising dollars splits and they said look if you go spend a thousand bucks we don't even care how you show it back to us just make sure you put eerie on whatever is it you did we'll

reimburse you the full thousand so i was like dude that's awesome so yeah i mean they were the bit but they're the biggest proponent of the type of stuff, in our agency at least. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Well, it's one of those things that just it's all about touch points. And companies haven't really thought about the touch points for agents. It hasn't been updated in a lot of years. Some companies have.

I'm not going to be paying everybody with the same brush. But I think the companies need a complete overhaul. And it's funny. I had a presentation done for Chubb. And I was going to present to Jeffrey Graham and some of his team. And I can't wait. COVID unfortunately stopped that. But as soon as things clean up, I'm excited to present to Chubb because I have some really good insights. If I was a company, here's the things I'd be doing with agents and brokers to take things to the next

level. And I just don't find the companies really ask or care. And they send a survey out, they want to get a high net promoter score, but they don't talk about doing anything different. And it's going to be interesting how companies evolve over the next five to 10 years. There's going to be more consolidation, just like brokers. There's a huge consolidation in brokers. There's a whole thing about scale.

And there's going to be still scratch agencies, but there's a certain scale that if you have scale, you have the markets, you have the resources to to do things it makes things a lot easier and you can get a lot more flow and grow a lot quicker and you can still do well as a startup agent don't get me wrong but you have to your niche you have to be super focused and uh you know there's there's there's just a huge evolution going through i don't know where it's gonna end i don't know what it looks like you know we talk about who's gonna win directs agents. That's an age old debate that goes back and forth like a tennis ball. You know, I feel the agents in the best spot of anybody to win

because we don't know just like Uber doesn't own any taxis. We don't own any policies and we have a chance to innovate and do well. So why not ask why not now, but the connectivity is the biggest issue we feel in the issue right now is connectivity and moving data. That is the biggest thing plaguing agents from getting to the next level. And if we don't solve that quickly, we can't start using AI and machine learning to really dial things in. That's what scares me. That's why we have things like Neon with Seth have to get pushed through.

We need more solutions like that. Solutions created by agents for agents. I'm really bullish on stuff like that. Right. So the whole collaboration thing. So. Yeah. And we talked about this like just a minute ago with Ryan. It's not just the systems either. I think when, when Ryan, you interviewed Seth, you said Seth is right. Then you said what can agents do to help you and the cause who might not be on Neon or might not ever be on Neon or might be 10 years before they're on Neon?

And I don't even know that Seth gave you an answer, but here's the answer. You know, agents, you have to start doing stuff differently. I'm not saying you've got to put tons of money in your agency, but like we were talking about, stop selling like Geico on price. You know, try to, and if your price is your value, that's fine, but find the places where you can bring value. I mean, look at what Jeff's doing. I mean, he's putting marketing strategies, time. Dude, that's crazy. That is a value add right there, what he's doing, because he's willing to take the time to do it. So don't just rest on your laurels. If you want to help the industry out and have it be around,

get off your ass, do a little work, call Jeff, call Seth, call anybody, and let's do it. Or don't be upset when no one gives a shit about your opinion. Yes. And that's really where I've gotten with some of the Facebook groups Don't be upset when no one gives a shit about your opinion. Yes. And that's really what, that's really where I've gotten with some of the, some of the Facebook groups. You know, I love them.

I love them because it gives you a tone of what people are thinking about. And there are some good questions asked, but there are also a lot of really stupid questions, a lot of stupid comments. And by stupid, I mean actually stupid. Like if you're not putting in the work to grow your book of business, if you're just hawking on price and you're asking the same questions about where do I get leads from? Figure it out. Google insurance leads.

You'll see a thousand different companies that'll sell them to you. Try them all. The ones that work, keep. The ones that don't, get rid of them. Join one of these. Join Nick Air's made you look thing. Try YouTube all. The ones that work, keep. The ones that don't, get rid of them. Join one of these, join Nick Air's Made You Look thing. Try YouTube videos. You know, join Frank Jimenez's thing. Try Facebook videos.

You know, hire Austin Moorhead to build automations for you. I mean, like, I just don't understand this mentality where people just show up, don't really work that hard and go, how come no one's giving me the answer? And it's like, because you don't deserve the answer. Jeff Roy deserves every answer that he gets. Every answer he gets because he works his frigging ass off. And every person who comes to him and every carrier that asks him for his advice, he earned it because he works hard. And I don't even deserve the conversations that he has. And I think, and what I mean, you know what I mean?

I'm not just being overly humble. I mean, this dude has put in 31 years of hard work to figure out how to get 900 leads in a month and to not be happy with that, right? Like I can do more. And it's that mentality that is separating. I do see, and it would probably always been this way, but a clear separation between these agency owners and agents that act so helpless.

Like help is so available today if you are willing to reach out and do a little bit of the work. It's so available. It's more available than it's ever been. But I just feel like, I mean, and again, I said this to you before. It's just, you know, I say this to my kids when they play with other kids. Form a hierarchy and operate in that ecosystem.

Understand where your place is. If you're unhappy with your place, push your way up the hierarchy. That's the way the world works. There's another time in human history for people to figure things out, get the help, whatever. But you have to invest in yourself, and you can't be static, right?

You have to keep reinvesting. And that's education. That's learning. That's failure. It's launching. It's all that kind of stuff, right? And these people that complain all the time, you know, I like people. If you generally have a problem, that's great.

But let's say it's when you're, hey, I've got a problem uh i see somebody complaining i want to make sure they have a solution because if you don't have a solution at least an idea of how you would fix it you're bitching at that point when people start complaining about stuff but nothing worse than learned helplessness where people go oh i can't believe this carrier did that well what are two things you can do and nine times out of ten they're like well i can do this and this well great why don't you do them you know most a lot of people have the answer but they just need that coaching or they get into a state where you know there's a lot of things going on and they get paralysis by analysis they're not sure what to do and they just don't want to take action and

that's exactly when you have to take action is when you don't want to and you're backed into a corner you know and then they said the industry can beat you up. And you have to make sure that you're going to have your days where you go home and your doubt days. Everybody in any business has their doubt days. They're like, what am I doing in this business? But then you go, you know what? Tomorrow's going to be a good day.

Dust it off. Let's go on positive. My family's still healthy. I'm still healthy. I can figure things out. It's not the end of the world, right? So that's what keeps you going. Yeah.

Yeah, so anyway, that's the long answer to the podcast. No, I didn't say that. And again, we're doing it. We're kind of excited to get it going. And, you know, whether I'm sure my friends in the U.S. can access it, we'll put it out there. I think the topics we're talking about, huge value,

both sides of the border, just like, it's funny. I just feel like Canada, U S there really isn't much difference. The company names are different. Some of your coverage terms are the same, but we're a little bit different,

but at the end of the day, it's still the same, right? Same industry, same challenges. Like connectivity is a huge problem in the U S yeah. U S isn't any further ahead than Canada on really anything. We're all kind of on the same levels.

I used to think the U.S. was so far ahead. Oh, my God, I hope we catch up to them. And then when I start hanging out down there, I'm like, wow, we have all the same problems. So that's good. We can insert ourselves, solve them together. It doesn't matter where you live. It's how you think, how you act, who you know, what you do.

And a lot of people just aren't doing a lot of new things, right? You know, what's that saying? There's no such thing as old news. Just old things happening to new people, right? So yeah, well, dude, I, I didn't expect this to be a group show. I'm incredibly happy that it was a group show. I, I appreciate both of you so much. Jack, I appreciate you again. For now, you're going to be in two podcasts, which is amazing. I appreciate you coming on and Jeff and just share, man. I think you know that I think the world of you, I think it's why in 2018, you let off elevate, you know, just blowing people away. Just just, I mean, I still have people that will reference your, your presentation at that conference,

like there are still people that will come up to me or, you know, hey, do you remember, you know, Jeff, what he said, and just it, you know, your impact on this industry has been um i think in in probably the most probably the most humble way so widespread there's no way that i think you even realize um you know how often your name is fluttered in conversations about things you've said or done and how many people aspire to be at the place that you are so i appreciate you sharing your time and everything that you do. You're very humble, man. And I'm just Jeff Roy from a small town in Canada trying to help out.

And you know what? That 2018, I look back to Cleveland. I kind of felt like that was a pinnacle of the new movement. The vibe in there, just it was awesome. The Elevate first two, three years of it was great. It was just a move. It just kind of captured the moment and now we're kind of in a different state i'm not sure what that state is i'm trying to

put a name on you and i were chatting about that like where where are we at now like it just kind of felt like all the new gadgets have been flushed out all the shiny stuff everybody came out everybody shared and done it and now we're into more complicated stuff that's maybe less sexy but like you know i'm doing client journeys and all the content that's not super sexy when it's all done and working maybe that's a conversation but you know it's just so much more work to do something to talk about and I just you know I feel like there's so much more we need to do at Excalibur to do something that's worthy of talking to people about like you know I did a bunch of stuff and I'll be

honest I didn't think it was anything different than what everybody else did when i had to go on the stage for nicholas ayers and dave jackson in 2017 in florida to 450 people i didn't know from a hole in the ground except from a track group and that was like i said it was scary because i had to go out there and i'm wearing a hockey jersey and either it's either i've completely this is completely garbage and i'm gonna get booed off the stage or it's gonna resonate and it's luckily resonated and uh you know i'm just happy to be part of the conversation i'm happy to have some respect in the u.s and have some great friends and uh you know i'm just very fortunate and i'm fortunate to meet some of the greatest people in the world in the insurance business so i just want to thank you ryan for everything you've done and give me all the

opportunities and jack you know i think last time i saw you, was it in North Carolina? Yeah. Yeah. I was down in North Carolina with Aubie Knight, who I think is one of the real heroes and leaders in the industry. I'm a huge Aubie Knight fan. Yeah, me too. It's great. We have Colin Simpson in Canada that leads the IBO.

He's very solid. I think him and Aubie need to get to know each other really well because they're both two guys doing some great things that put the agent and broker first. And that's good because we needed more people putting us first and i always say this to everybody play for the name on the front of the jersey not the name in the back so if we can block a little bit of time to help everybody and the rising tide floats all boats do that we need more agents to to share and contribute and help out and if we do that we'll make this the best channel and if we don't we continue to not share or try and help out. And if we do that, we'll make this the best channel. And if we don't,

we continue to not share or try and one up and beat people. You know, eventually we're going to collectively get beat by somebody smarter, bigger, and better access to data. So I used to be worried about banks and insurance. Now I'm worried about Amazon and the big Uber bigs people that come in. They actually get the proposition,

right? Like lemonade, their, their IPO went pretty well doubled in price. I'm not sure if I don't understand. I'm not sure if it's valid, but are they going to be the Amazon of insurance? We'll wait and see, right? Should we be investing some of our money into it right now? I'm starting to think I should it now, but it's hard to say, right? But anyway, great conversation. Computer bots certainly are. The day trading bots are investing their money in it.

Yeah, for sure. Good. certainly are the uh those the day trading bots are investing their money in it yeah sure good before we go i want to say i just want to i just want to jump on your shoulders on obby because um what i love about obby and and i think we have to stand behind guys like obby who are willing to take flack what what i what stands out the most to me about Aubie as a association leader or leader in general in this industry is that he's willing to stand up for agents and take the flack so that we can do our jobs, that agents can do their jobs. And I think there's a lot of people in Aubie's position or positions like obby's who who maybe and i'm not saying they're bad people but they don't they're not as willing to do that

and obby is one of the few people that are and it's um and i think you know uh marit peters another one down in texas um jeff smith jeff smith in ohio um matt Banaszewski in Wisconsin. Like these are the individuals who really, they take a lot of heat in pressing agent issues. And I think, you know, we need to support them as much as we can. You talk about the insurance guys at the tip of the spear, right? Who's one of the insurance guys at the tip of the spear, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Awesome, guys. Thanks very much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate it, guys. I appreciate your time. Be good, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome, guys. Thanks very much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate it, guys. I appreciate your time. Be good, be safe, and I'll catch you on the flip. Later, fellas. Hit it and record. Hit it and record. Thank you. សូវាប់បានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបា Thank you. Thank you. Close twice as many deals by this time next week.

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