The Ryan Hanley Show - RHS 061 - Aubie Knight on the Impact of COVID-19 on Independent Agents and What to Do Next

Episode Date: September 2, 2020

Became a Master of the Close: https://masteroftheclose.comAubie Knight, president and CEO of the Independent Insurance Agents of North Carolina (IIANC) joins the podcast to breakdown a new study his organization recently published based survey results from independent agents and impact of COVID-19 on their business. Get more: https://ryanhanley.com/Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home. I'll be right back. and had just, over the years, fantastic conversations. I don't know how else to describe it. Aubie Knight is a thoughtful guy. He thinks about our business. He comes at it from a very pragmatic point of view. And his position as president and CEO of the Independent Insurance Agents of North Carolina puts him in a unique spot to understand both the political dynamics of our industry as well as the boots on the ground, how to get things done. He's got some tremendous agents in his

association in North Carolina, so he's always talking to some of the best and brightest in our space. And the way he thinks about running his association is just different. And every chance I get to spend some time with Aubie is time that I consider well spent. And I think you're going to love this interview. So the reason I had Aubie on was because North Carolina did a survey or a study, I guess you could say. And it basically got feedback from their member agencies about the impact that COVID-19 had had on their businesses. And there's some really interesting stuff in here. And that's what we talk about. We talk about how has COVID impacted independent insurance agencies based on this study that North Carolina did and what we can be doing as independent agency

owners, producers, people in the space. What can we be doing moving forward to put our businesses in a position to succeed? I think you're going to love this episode. Before we get there, I want to give a big shout out to our sponsor for today. That is Advisor Evolved. AdvisorEvolved.com. I get asked quite a bit, you know, hey, I'm thinking about I need a new website or who should I use or what's the best website vendor out there. And it's hands down, it's Advisory Evolved. And I don't just say that because they're a sponsor of the show. Chris has been, Chris has built probably six websites for me. He's just, he's my go-to. There's no one better. The stuff that Chris Langell and his team at Advisory Evolved is doing,

it's just your website is so much more than just a billboard on the internet. You get quote vids. You get conversion cards. You get the comparison tool where you can build out these comparison posts. You get all kinds of landing pages that are pre-built for you. I mean, there's just so much there. And his local traffic marketing add-built for you. I mean, there's just so much there. And his local traffic marketing add-on that you can use as well gets your name out in front of customers like you wouldn't imagine.

So I highly recommend Advisory Evolved. Actually, I don't just recommend it. There is no other option than Advisory Evolved if you're looking for a website. There's just no other option. Just stop wasting brain cycles on this decision. Go to Advisory Evolved, sign up, get your badass website, and move on. That's it. All right, let's get to Aubie. Probably the biggest account of my career that I'm working on right now. It's a retail furniture store. Hartford and Chubb are looking at it, which is cool. And oh my God, the number of

follow-up questions is like killing me. And like some of these questions, you know, some of this is just why I just think to myself, I mean, I get it. I get it. And I'm not trying to knock an industry that has done so well for so long and knows what it's doing. I'm not knocking that. But like, who is the op? If I give them all the vehicles and all the drivers, the fact that a follow-up question is, we don't have a driver specifically attached to vehicle seven. Who is the driver? And I'm like, guys,

you have all the MVR records for all the drivers. You have all the A plus records for all the, for all the vehicles. Does it really matter who is on vehicle seven of a 20 driver, 17 vehicle fleet? Do we, is that really worth spending time on? Like, is that the question that we need to know well our system means that we that's how i have to enter it in ryan so i've got to have somebody attached and you're like it's a fleet it's a freaking fleet i know i'm like i may be i may need the cargo van one day i may be the sedan one day i may need the bigger truck one day i mean it just yeah i mean

look he checks off all the boxes they're all experienced drivers with three or more experience and all of them have to maintain at least 100 300 on their personal auto they all have good for the most part mvr is like a couple little nicks and bumps but nothing major like this is a good solid fleet it's a good solid driver list why are we spending time on who drives vehicle seven? I just, it's like one of those things where I'm like, I just look at this and I say to myself, there was a time when I am sure that based on how long things took in general, that everybody was okay going,

oh yeah, I gotta figure that out. I'm gonna figure that out and make a call. I don't know how in the next wave of agents who I think have dispositions of varying degrees similar to my own, how this question continues to be something that is even tolerated. Like just, oh, and forget just from the agent's perspective, but from the consumer's perspective. Yeah, exactly. Right. I mean, from the consumer's perspective, when, you know, when the disruptor comes along that doesn't require that that degree of information, then, I mean, it turns everything on its head. I mean, I'm old enough to remember, Ryan, I got in the business in the mid 90s. Well, I actually got in the business on the retail side in the early 90s, but then transitioned over to the association in the mid 90s. And, you know, the guys, the old guys would come in and I mean,

they used to hand deliver applications, you know what I mean? You've probably heard those stories, right? I mean, the association office was located, you know, in a convenient part of Atlanta and the guys, you know, those guys would drive down and go and deliver applications to the various carriers and take those guys to lunch, then swing by the association office just to see what was up in chat yeah you know and you're like i don't know that's just a

i'm with you man i uh you know and then i look at tarmica and i'm like i don't think people realize what um ragoff has going on like i don't think people really understand what an API driven comparative rater means for our industry. I just don't think people get it. I think, I think they hear it and they're like, Oh, we've heard some of those terms before. And I think there's some of that, but like, I mean, the stuff that he's doing is game changing stuff. I mean, the ability, I mean, so I'm not giving away any trade secrets, better agency just announced a partnership and integration with Tarmaca. So, and I actually don't have any intrinsic knowledge into what this is going to be. But

I can tell you what I'm pretty sure it's going to be. Is you have an account, a prospect comes into Better Agency through a form fill on your website, immediately sent to Tarmaca and returned with a rate, a comparative rate for both personal and if it's a commercial account, commercial lines for the classes that that's capable of

right inside of Better Agency that you then can package up and mail to the person. We're talking about that whole process taking minutes, minutes. This is what's coming because when you drive something via API, and I mean, I know you know this, but I feel like, I feel like so many people hear these terms and because we've heard it for so long in it not really being true like someone would say i'm using api but really it wasn't an api or it was a one a version one or a version two api like these new version three apis are full full application integration into another application that's what we're talking about is you have one thing and all the utility

of another thing is sucked into it as if it as if it was there and um that's game-changing stuff i mean that that's stuff that just you know it ties it ties back into the whole thing that seth is doing with neon as well right i mean like like where you could actually go in and look at, look at a client screen and be real time looking to see if the payment's been made. Is the policy enforced? Is the bill going out? Where's the, you know, I mean, that, that sort of thing. The, the, the, the only, you know, the only thing that, you know, I've got my fingers crossed for with, with, with Tarmaca is, you know, it's all going to be about carrier adoption, right? I mean, if it's the carriers that are in your agency have to have to allow Tarmaca to do that in order for that to end up being, you know, the benefit for you.

And here's what's going to happen, because I'll tell you what's going to happen in my agency is the first carriers to get onto Tarmaca, No one's getting a business because if, I mean, rumor on the street is two questions for an auto quote, right? So when you, when people look at some of these new insure techs and they go and you only need like a, a name and address or a name, address, birthday. And they're like, how can they they how can they rate them all the data all the data that you're hey what's your vin number i just had a guy text me his freaking vin

number a picture of his vin number from his car right like this information is available online you just have to have access to the databases so uh you know when i so so the fact again it goes back to the idea of how they're building this thing out. And, and, and again, I don't want this to be a commercial for them. I just, I feel like. Oh dude, I'm all in. I mean, we, you probably know, I mean, we, we took an equity piece.

I mean, we're in the, we're in the rant. We're in the, we're in the round, man. I mean, we, we're all in. I get it. I, I just, I, it just, to me is like, I look at it. I just, I, it just, to me, it's like, I look at it. I'm like, this is one of the few insurance technology solutions that is, that feels feasible that is actually getting real adoption. I mean, I've written, I've probably written somewhere between a half dozen and a dozen small commercial accounts through them.

Now, um, I did a podcast the other day. I wrote, I had a guy call me 21 minutes later, booked with Liberty Mutual, done. He has the policy. 21 minutes from phone call to booked policy. Well, I had a buddy, one of my best friends and neighbors, his daughter is getting ready to start her sophomore year at Georgia. So she moved out of the dorm a couple weeks ago and moved into her first-time college apartment and he sent me I love to show you the screenshot he sent me because you know he he's all he's an insurance consumer and this guy he's awesome he's awesome guy small business owner he's a great client right for any agency but

he's always bellyaching about the customer experience to me. You know, oh, it sucks. My agent doesn't do anything to earn my business and, you know, da, da, da. So he sent me a screenshot a couple weeks ago, and he had purchased a renter's policy for his daughter through Lemonade. Yeah. You know, and it's like, I don't know anything about this, but all insurance should be this easy. And, you know, this is what I'm talking about, is what i'm talking about have you ever heard of these guys you know that sort of thing so that that that resulted in a conversation but then i also had

to razzle was like well why did you have to go into a separate renter's policy i mean i get it i mean you can but you could have also just had your so then he ended up being mad that he had spent you know 89 when he could have just had the the college department listed you know as as an additional residence and satisfied the landlord so it's it's funny stuff yeah i um i i don't know if you heard the uh if you listen to the episode that i do with chefie ben hudda i had her on and um we were talking about lemonade and um i just you know i i think the deeper i get into so it's it's been so interesting man i mean i know you you we've known each other for a while now and going from agent to doing all the association stuff to then going to bold penguin now back to own and eat like to to see that spectrum and to come back sitting here,

there's part of me that's like, there's part of me, I was worried. Like there's a lot of people that asked me, why the hell are you starting an agency? Like everything you've done, everyone just assumed I would go to an insure tech or something, which, and I have no beef with insure techs at all, obviously. But I just, the more I get into it, the more I believe in the human, like I believe in the human. I just think, one, the humans need better tools. And that's why I speak, the neons, the better agencies, the Chris Langell advisory vols, the Tarmaca. It's why I talk about these companies all the time and there are others but like that i feel like every step those companies make moving forward actually you

know who said it to me the other day uh zach mefford from uh coverage direct up in iowa he said hanley he goes oh dude awesome awesome him and his partner ryan salve they they run this tremendous agency up in iowa Tremendous. Absolutely. They're rock stars. They're both like, I think they're mid to late thirties, maybe mid thirties. They just, they're, they're awesome dudes. Neon pilots. They he goes, he said, Hanley, he goes, it feels to me like for the first time we're not being bullshitted. Like the technology actually is as good as advertised,

like the things that are coming out are as good as advertised. Then it was cool hearing it from him because he's a discerning guy. He's not a smoke, you know, he's not just going to blow smoke, you know, cause I'm kind of a hype man. So I talk shit and people are like, oh, you know, this is, this is Ryan being crazy again. But with, dude, he doesn't say that kind of stuff unless he means it. And I believe him. You know, I think it's really exciting. I think we've – all the stuff that went on in 2016, 2017, I feel like it's bearing fruit today.

And it's exciting. I don't know if you see that from where you are. Well, I mean, and I'm so encouraged to hear even you make a real-life story of saying, hey, a guy called, and 20 minutes later, he's got a policy. We've gone through the whole process because that's evidence. I mean, that's proof that this type of technology is working so that the human and the relationship can start to deliver on an experience that's far more like the lemonade experience than the hey by the way of the 20 drivers who should i assign to vehicle vehicle number seven you know jesus christ are we really you know it's i know it's it's uh you know what so what's funny for all you haters out there that are listening that listen to the show religiously that vin number that i told you i got snapped the picture of, that's the guy. So, cause the guy's policy that I wrote in 21 minutes was like a $600 bop,

right? So all the haters are like, yeah, of course you're writing $600 bops in 20 minutes. Well, I'm cross-selling his auto in his renter MFers. So I'm doing exactly what I told you I was going to do. And now it's a really nice account because he's left me a Google review. I'm going to write his personal stuff and I got his business policy. So that's what, and I, I'm obviously I'm, I'm a little fired up. It's Friday afternoon and I'm, I'm really, this, this podcast ends my, uh, professional obligations for the day. So, so, uh, the next thing is a nice crispy crack of an afternoon Friday beer for Ryan. So my point in saying all this is I think that we are in, for the agents whose heads are in the right place, I mean, it feels to me like that independent agent renaissance that we talked so much about 2015, 2016, 2017. It feels like we're in the early stages of it today.

Like it's really starting to happen. Yeah, it never happens as fast as you think it's going to or at the exact moment that you think it to, but it's happening. And I think even maybe to segue into one of the things we want to talk about today is the acceleration that COVID has caused in terms of just adaptation, adopting new technologies and trying to provide a different type of customer experience, not because you necessarily wanted to, but because now you've been forced to. So, I mean, I think that's, I think that's huge. Yeah. And that is really, you know, I mean, obviously you and I could shoot the shit about a lot of different things. But at IANC, you guys did this.

I keep showing pictures like I do video. I'm like showing, I'm showing Aubie stuff on the screen that he doesn't need to see. Like I even produced the video. So you can tell where my head is at today, but you guys did this COVID-19 impact survey on your members. And I wanted to have you on because I feel like, well, I was kind of hoping when we got to the day when we'd actually talk, COVID might be going away. It doesn't feel that way, at least not where I am, because the emperor of my state has decided to not be so. But I'm super interested in the results because I think some of the findings that you have in here speak to a lot of the stuff that we've talked about so far. So I guess my first question to you is, like, what was the first thing that jumped out at you about this survey? Like when you, you know,

there's a couple different things that I want to dive into, but like for you personally, knowing your agents, spending time, you know, being so connected with others, executive directors around the country, like what caught you? What grabbed you? What said you're like, whoa, I didn't expect to see that, if there was anything? Yeah, well, you know, there were two main things. One had to do with the work from home orders and the fact that 43% of our respondents to the survey basically responded that they stayed open. Their offices stayed open with most or all of their employees reporting to the office every day. That on the surface was initially shocking to me. And then the other thing that I was sort of surprised by, but then also very encouraged by, was just the level of optimism.

And there hasn't been a tremendous shift in how agencies are thinking about the future. You know, not, they're very small percentage of agencies are significantly less optimistic, you know, about the future. Most are, you know, slightly less optimistic about the same or slightly more, but not very many agencies are thinking this is going to have long-term and significant implications to, you know, to their revenue and to their business. So those were the two big takeaways for me. Do you think that that is because they feel their businesses rock solid, they have a good plan? Do you think any part of that is just maybe having some blinders on and not really fully taking in what's coming? Or, you know, where do you think that is from? Yeah, you know, there's always that ripple effect in insurance agency revenues.

I mean, we've got a certain degree of insulation from economic downturn and from recession. And it normally takes a while for those things to impact premiums at the retail level and then impacting agency revenue. So I think, I think by and large, member agencies are thinking this thing will be over before that ripple effect really hits my agency with any significance. Now, we did have, you know, 8% of the respondents are forecasting their agencies are going to be down, their revenues are going to be down significantly this year. So we looked at those that did a little bit of a deeper dive into, into those agencies. And that's largely being driven by agencies that, that are just kind of overexposed in a couple of industries that,

that are being hit hard. If you're, if you're, if you're an agency or even if you have a producer or two within your agency that are focused on hospitality and restaurants, then obviously you're, you're kind of taking it on the chin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or if you were going to launch your startup agency in the fitness industry, that was also not a good play.

So one of the stats that immediately jumped out to me was about the question was, how did your agency workforce respond to the state and local stay-at-home orders? And the result was 75% of respondents with revenue over 5 million fully converted staff to remote, while only 11% of the small agencies, 200,000 or below. And I thought, you know, I don't know what I would have thought, but that was one of the largest discrepancies in terms of how big of a percentage difference it was. And I just, it just, that stood out to me. I was like, wow, that is a very substantial difference in terms of philosophy. Yeah, completely. And one of the things that I've

kind of found out anecdotally, just by talking And one of the things that I've kind of found out anecdotally, just by talking with some of the smaller agencies is even though they were showing up at the office every day, along with their employees, they were still closing the office to outsiders, right? So they were not allowing, you know, marketing rep visits, they were not even seeing customers in the office. And a lot of those were family owned agencies. Yeah, you know, so it was it was almost like their agency. Yeah, you know, so it was it was almost like their agency was their, you know, was their social distancing bubble, right? They just, they all they all, you know, got up at home, had breakfast together, got in the car,

drove to the office, and then work from the office together. And it was more or less the same, you know, the same group of a group of people. Yeah yeah no and that that makes a lot of sense that's actually what my uh wife's uh family agency did was they they kind of the way their offices spread out they kind of are socially distanced to be with and uh and they did let anyone who really had a real issue work from home and they did do that but actually there was only three i think they have 12 people and i think only about three of them stayed home full time. The rest, you know, basically came to the office and stayed away from each other and wore masks. And, and they did do the thing where they just put a sign that said, Hey, call us. We'll come out. Don't come in. We're not doing that. Um, anymore. Now you can come in if you have a mask on, but you know, during the early days,

they, they just said, stay out. And I thought that, I thought that was interesting. It is funny to think they all wake up together. They all get in the same car. They all drive the same office. Yeah. I had, I had, I had lunch with Josh Lipstone yesterday and, and you know, they're, they're not that small of an agency and they don't, it's not like, it's not like they are all under the same roof, but Josh was like, you know, they went into the office and it's his dad and his sister and the one employee,

and they just kind of keep their, keep their space, um, in, in the office. Yeah. Killing commercial member, by the way, represent killing commercial. Um, Josh Lipstone. Um, you know, I was talking to, I was talking to my, so my brother-in-law owns a renter's insurance agency nationally. Yeah, I remember that. New York City, right? But based out of New York? Well, he lives up here now. He started in New York.

He's since moved up. But he writes apartment complexes all over. He doesn't write the buildings themselves. He actually manages the renters insurance programs inside the building to keep the loss ratio down for the agents and carriers that write the structure themselves, which is an interesting, it's an interesting business. But we were talking about, and this is just kind of speaks to the larger businesses going remote, but we were talking about, he wants all his people in house. He's got about 20 employees and my wife and her family, they want their people to work from the office. And they're like, you know, I just can't imagine a world where we're not operating in the same

space. Like we feel less efficient. And I was like, yeah, Amazon does not feel that way. Like American Express does not feel that way. Like those businesses are never coming back. Not, not for a long, I shouldn't say never, but. No, I mean, Amazon's the opposite, right? And there was actually an article yesterday. It was two days ago in the wall street journal. And then yesterday it kind of hit the other, other media. They, they just purchased huge amounts of corporate retail space. Like in Manhattan, they bought the big building from WeWork. And it completely made me rethink, you know, what is the future of the office? And it seems like Amazon's going the Zag strategy, right? I mean, everybody else is saying.

He's probably already got the vaccine because he's part of the Illuminati. So he's already got the vaccine. He's been stamping them for months. They're all vaccinated. That's the thing. The Illuminati already have the vaccine, man. What the future of work is, it's so hard. I mean, you know, we have a 17,000 square foot office building association.

And, you know, a significant portion of that has been always dedicated to live in-house training and then, and then office space for staff. And now, you know, I go into the office and, um, either we've got way too much stuff or, or I can now where, where I thought I was maxed out in terms of the number of employees I could house, I could, I could grow by another 30%. And through office sharing and remote work and others, I've got, I've got enough floor space to last forever now. You know, I really, I think what you just described, this kind of hybrid model is really where a lot of people are going. Because I do think sharing the same space at times is very important. But, you know, I think back to like my agency nation days when we had a distributed workforce. Like we had people in Wisconsin, or Milwaukee, people in Minneapolis.

And then the rest of my team was kind of spread out through the Midwest and East coast. And for the most part, we worked remote and, but then four or five times a year, we would all get together and spend three to four days. And that time was very, very important. If we skipped one of those, because something was going on, you can see it in our work product. So I think it's important for us to share space. At the same time, I do think people are more comfortable in the in-between getting work done from home. And I also of the respondents on the side or whatever, and in addition, additional comments around just in general, their experience building a remote culture, because I think that's the heart that that is, the technology is solvable, the culture is really tough. Yeah, no, 100%. I mean, that's something that I've spent personally a lot of time thinking about. And I've talked to a lot of my colleagues as well as agency owners.

And that is how do you maintain culture? How do you maintain the spirit of collaboration and the spirit of purpose and mission and focus, you know, in a remote environment? And it's something that I think is doable. You just have to be super intentional about it. Yeah. I mean, so, I mean, I was, especially early on in the process, I mean, I was sending out, you know, weekly videos to my, to my team, you know, I was checking

in, you know, just, just really over communicating. But it's, it's funny, man, how quickly you fall back into a new routine. I mean, now, I mean, and I hate, I freaking hate the whole new normal, but it's almost gotten to the point where we've been doing this for so long now, it has kind of become the new normal. And I'm not being as intentional about checking in with my team and saying, hey, how are you guys doing? How's your family doing? You know, those types of things. I know we've had one agency that contacted us with an address change.

And so now they went from having a fiscal address to a PO box. And he just said, absolutely. Hey, my lease was coming up for renewal. And we were working so well effectively. We're just remote now because we're not going to have an office. I think I heard you make that comment or maybe a tweet or something. I saw something and I'm attributing to ryan hanley it might have been from someone else that said i'll never have a i'll never have a brits border

agency yeah i don't think i will you know what i what i do do is i do pay a monthly fee for a co-working space so i have a co-working space where they got four offices um that i can or um four office four conference spaces there's offices that you can rent for not four offices, four conference spaces. There's offices that you can rent for the day. There's all this open space. So if I need to have it, like all my carrier meetings when we were meeting that I did when I was looking for appointments, I did down there because I was in the basement of my house, but I have a, this is probably a 12 by 14 office space that has everything I could possibly need. Why would I need a physical space? Now, when I do get employees, if they are in the Albany area, you know, I want to have a

place I can go meet with them and we can whiteboard and, you know, chit chat and share space and time. And that's what that is. But that we don't need to be there every day, not for a thousand, two thousand, five thousand dollars a month. I mean, as you grow these, that fixed costs and then all the fixed costs that comes along with that, when I can go to light speed voice, send them a $30 phone and they're basically plugged in ready to rock and roll. Right. I mean, um, it's, it's, I think that world, it'll, it would, I would just have to be, I would have to be at, I would have a heavy shift in mindset to believe that I would need to rent a space. I, you know, with a coat when, when coworking is available, if it, if it's not available in your town, then I could see renting

a small space to kind of get together if it wasn't, you know, if it was financially feasible, but, um, coworking changes the game for me. Yeah. And I think also, um, even just going to the hybrid model, all of a sudden, everybody, even if you believe that you still need physical space, like, you know, your square footage per employee has just shifted downward tremendously, you know? Um, so I agree, you know, the other thing too, is I think this is going to really press leadership. Like, like, I don't mean, I guess what I mean by that is, it's going to press all of us to be better leaders of our people. And I talked to my wife about this all the time, because she is, she does not like leading her team remotely. She likes to see them and talk to them. And I don't think she's wrong for that. At the same time, what if a rock

star walks in the door and says three days a week, I want to work from home. And you, you know, they're 125% productive production employee. They're, they're just hardworking. They're smart. They get it. They're engaged, but three days a week, they want to be home. What you're going to say? No, that's a tough, that's a tough thing. You know, you got to be able to adapt as a leader to that and somehow manage that person alongside, you know, your other employee who's been there for 20 years, who loves coming into the office every day. And then your, your other employee who wants to be home every day. And how do you productively manage all three of those personalities without one feeling like they're getting more or less or, you know, whatever that that's,

I think it puts a lot of pressure on leadership. Yeah, absolutely. And just from the standpoint of just being an employer and being competitive in the marketplace, I mean, to your to your point, you know, to a lot of people, you know, compensation is always going to be important, but there are other factors that are important in terms of attracting talent and flexibility with work schedule, particularly now, I mean, the degree of flexibility that people are having to allow

and really encourage right now with schools, a lot in a lot of places, schools being shut down and your employee is, not only are they working remote, but they're working remote and they've got two elementary school age kids at home that they're tag teaming with the spouse to try to make sure they're doing their schoolwork. And it's a challenge

and it does provide an opportunity for leadership and to displace some, you know, some flexibility and, you know, allow your employees to really do what's best, what's best for them. And the belief that ultimately that's going to be what's best for, you know, what's best for your organization, right? They're going to pay that forward. One, one question on our survey was, will you be considering expanding your telework policy? And only 26% of the respondents said no. So the other 74% were, yes, we've already made that decision. We're definitely going to.

Or we're still under consideration. That was about divided. That was about divided in half. Yeah. I think you'd have to be crazy not to not to let them work from well i shouldn't say that because i am uh i've decided i'm not giving agencies a hard time for being snowflakes anymore not snowflakes in the liberal sense snowflakes in the we are all actually unique sense and um and uh you know i mean it i i you know i've said this before on the show but i i think it just bears repeating because i honestly believe it today i that was been one of my biggest mind

shifts and i think it bared out and a lot of what i saw from this as well is that um i in in you know you and i may even had this conversation in previous lives but like um i i could never really understand why we couldn't find at least semi-templated solutions for agencies why is it that you could have a thing that you know works and 75 of the agents just can't figure it out and and and that used to really drive me nuts you know i'd be like and it's because they're so different and rightly different well one of the one of the most beautiful things about the independent agency system is there's so many different paths to be successful right there's so many different ways that you can be successful yeah and then what you just described is the flip side of that same coin right there's no there's no standardized

solution there's because there are so many different paths forward and um so it's you know you kind of have to play both sides both sides of that but it it can be frustrating and it's it's it's incredible to look at agencies that if they're doing well and successful and their business model can be completely different than yeah and then another that's equally as successful yeah and then you know i think i yeah yeah it's but dude i just this this i could go on i could i could my mentality has changed uh so so much i i would like to say matured maybe is a better way to put it so much just in these since march 9 just just in the process of building this agency um so many things that I thought I understood from the outside that now, even in a small sample size, right? I mean, I've only been doing this for

a little over six months, but even in that small sample size, how my eyes have just been open to here is really what's going on and why. Not just that all agencies are different, but the reason they're different is because they serve a niche market in a rural community in a highly regulated state that also has natural disasters that also has a ton of mutuals okay how do you know what how do you figure that out okay you know i mean like it's just that and they've built the agency that fits that market it's kind of like uh like like darwin would be super pumped about independent agent darwin would be all his next book if he were still alive

would be the evolution of the independent agency because that's what it is you stick a entrepreneur into a place and all of a sudden they build this thing adapting to the, all the unique aspects of geography of the, of the legal environment, the physical environment, the, the nature of the, of the, the businesses in the, in the commerce in the area. It is, it is truly wild. And I love, I've never thought of the, uh, the Darwin and the evolution analysis, the evolution analogy, but now it's like, yeah,

why does this one agency have that one little toe that sticks out a little further with it with a claw on the end right because he needed that to climb this type of tree in the environment that he was living in or whatever exactly um so one of the questions that i had for you too in in the the stat is in the um and and we're gonna I want at the end, we're going to tell everyone where to get this report and you know, how they get it and everything. Cause I think this is awesome that you did this. And, and I was excited that you're willing to come on and talk about it. And you're welcome to share it, Ryan. I mean, if you, if you've got a, uh, what, if you want to put it on your website and share it directly, you're welcome to do that. You don't

have to direct, you don't have to direct them. Okay, cool, cool. So we will tell them how to check it out on yours, but also if you go to the show notes, which will be ryananley.com forward slash obby-knight, or just go to the ryananley.com, you'll find it. I'll have the PDF linked up in the show notes as well. But so one of the stats that I thought bared, there could be a lot of interesting education opportunities out of was if your agency transitioned to a remote work or increased the number of employees working from

home during the COVID-19 crisis, how would you describe the level of efficiency that those employees were able to achieve? And only 6% said they were more efficient working home, 6%. So 65% said they were able to operate at the same, which is awesome. That's awesome. But I think the goal of work from home is a higher efficiency level. And I guess my question for you is, have you thought about or what have you heard? Like, what are some things that agents could do to take this opportunity and actually create a more efficient agency operation? Yeah, so you're really drilling down now to the heart of why did we do the survey?

I mean, because what we want to identify is what problems is COVID presenting to our members, right? What, where, where do they see they're having specific problems and challenges? Because, you know, that's how we have really redefined and really repositioned ourselves as an association. What, what's our value proposition and what our whole purpose is, is to help our members solve their problems. So whatever, whatever our members are having, wherever they're having problems, we want to be able to come up and offer solutions. So part of this was, OK, let's see what specific problems our member agencies are having as relates to COVID. And that's certainly one. And I also will throw in the fact that I thought the really probably the most honest people in the survey are the 10% that I don't really know how effectively my employees are working.

I don't even know how am I supposed to measure whether they're being more effective or less effective. I don't even know. I thought I ought to go back and give the people that 10% ought to receive a higher weighted score in the other areas because I think those guys are the people that 10% ought to receive a higher weighted score in the other areas. Because I think those guys are the ones that are probably the most. I'm just guessing. I don't really have a good idea.

Yeah, exactly. I think those are the more honest folks. One thing, we had some open-ended questions. And we tried to summarize those open-ended questions in about seven or eight different categories. And that's the last page of the report. And so nearly all of the open-ended comments and questions kind of fell into how do I increase and improve my remote work capabilities? I need to increase my investment in technology. We really need to make steps to improve the customer experience.

One thing is that we've not drilled down and can answer definitively, but it appears that the agencies that are significantly more optimistic and have actually seen revenue growth during COVID are those agencies that have a strong online presence. So people are shopping, people are sitting at home, and you have those agencies that have a strong online presence or getting opportunities for new business during this time. Yeah. So, you know, there's all sorts of opportunities for us to just continue in helping educate members and allowing them to evolve so that they can, you know, better serve the customer and be more efficient in times like this. So we've had some webinars already on transitioning to the remote workplace. And I do think that we need to continue along that path of helping agencies, one, understand how to measure efficiency

and then two, understand what the right tools and technologies are so that you can stay as efficient in a remote environment. I mean, you know, like personally, we've made investments just in things like making sure everybody had dual monitors at home. You know, I mean, that was something like when I'm talking to my staff and they said, yeah, well, I'm not quite as efficient as I would be if I were if I were in the office because I've only got a single monitor.

So, you know, we went out and bought out these, you know, these Lenovo really portable, really, really cool monitors. Yeah, I've got one in my laptop bag now. So even when I'm, even when I'm working remote, I just pull out this little thin, thin monitor and plug it into USB port and you get dual monitor time. So just little things like that can make a big difference. Yeah, I, I, I agree, man. I think, I think that, um, I think COVID has opened people's eyes to, in a very sharp way, a lot of the prognostication of the last decade or so. I think it was like, yeah, you know, we're fine. We're fine. We're fine.

Oh, no. What is going on? Like, how do we? And the good news is there's plenty of solutions out there. And I think the solutions are relatively cost effective. I think they're becoming easier to use. I think, you know, we've mentioned some of my favorites, but there's so many more. It's kind of, you know, there's there's plenty of good solutions. You know, I think, you know, I talked to, I talked to one of my insiders at VertiFOR the other day,

and even he said, he goes, I know, I'm sure on the forums, we're getting hammered for being sold or whatever again. And he said, but I got to be honest with you, it frees us up to do a lot of the things that we couldn't do under PE.

And he said, I think, in my general sense of making that comment is it feels to me like everybody, everybody sees what's necessary now that these ecosystems don't work. You have to be connected. You have to be easy to use. And, and we are, we are really slingshotting forward, which makes things like being more efficient in remote work possible. I mean, I look at what, you know, I was talking to my wife and I was showing her better agency because I think very highly of this particular program. And I just said, it has really changed the game for me. Like I've never used a CRM that also is essentially everything up to downloads

and accords, an agency management system. And to have everything in one place and to have it be visually easy and streamlined, I was like, and the fact that I can plug into it from any computer anywhere, doesn't matter. Boom, boom, boom. You know, web, web, internet access, you know, website browser. Doesn't matter if you're on know web web internet access you know website browser doesn't matter if you're on a mac a pc it's just boom there it is use it your person could be anywhere they can use it on their phone and um you know that type of technology it changes the game for agencies it changes the game the um the the agencies that were leaning forward in tech now i think exactly see things the way

that you do ryan in terms of like integration and the ease of using technology but the other the other you know i guess impact of covet is those agencies that i never thought would evolve or change you know that we're still um happy to see customers and give them a cup of coffee and have a 15 minute chat with them so they could drop off a payment. Those agencies are changing and, you know, they're adopting, you know, the eBay policies and they're adopting DocuSign instead of having the, you know, the customer come in and leave forms and things. So the evolution is taking place across the continuum of the technology. Everybody has shifted to be more technology savvy,

regardless of where you were. Everybody took a step in the tech savvy direction. And you know what's great about it? I had someone who I would throw in the category that you just described call me the other day, and they were just asking me a question about something. And he said to me, he goes, you know, I've been fighting this for

years. Really hasn't been as hard as I thought it would be. He's like, I always imagined this transition being more difficult than it is actually been. He goes, yeah, the first couple months were a little rough, but we've made the changes and added a couple things. And he goes, it really hasn't been that bad. And I was like, in the most positive way, I was like, yes, exactly. That is what we've been trying to tell you it's what everyone's been trying to tell you for all this time and I that was it wasn't like a football spike I said it in a very nice way I was like that's great that's great and I wasn't trying to spike the football on them I just meant like yes that's it is true like you are 100% right it you know if It, you know, if you're coming off a, if you're coming

off a TAM or one of these old, you're, yeah, you're going to feel a little bit of pain, but ultimately I think the tools have evolved to the point where like changing an agency management system 15 years ago, it's not as hard today. It's not nice, but it's not as hard. You get, you get through it faster. The other side is easier. You can pick up the tools. They're more visually appealing, the things. And it's not as difficult as people think that it actually is. And I think it's important, you know, guys like you, our leaders like you, I don't want to just say guys, you know, I think a lot of the people are saying the right things. They're putting the right options in front of people, letting people choose from a palette of options so they can

still be independent. They're not having solutions shoved down their throat, but saying here, here's three, here's three solutions that can help you figure out which one makes the best. But if you choose one of these, you're going to be just fine. And I think, I think it's great. I think I feel, um, I don't know. I feel as positive about the business as I have ever felt in my career today, despite COVID. I almost maybe because of COVID, because we've come through this so strongly and because, you know, half our industry didn't get wiped out and people aren't, you know, bitching and complaining all over.

They're really pushing hard and learning and adapting and a frigging Darwin, man. That's what it is. I was, I was, if you didn't throw the Darwin, I was going to go. Independent agents are resilient and man, they, they may not. A lot of agencies do not drive change, right? A lot of agencies don't drive change. They're not looking to drive innovation, but they have proven themselves capable of adapting when they need to. And in some cases, when they're forced to, right? And so this is a situation where many have been forced to change

and to evolve. And I've talked to a number of agencies that sound exactly like the conversation you had. And they always say, I'm really not sure why we didn't do this years ago. Well, I mean, I hate to be a smartass about it. Well, you didn't have to, right? I mean, you were not required to do it, so you didn't. And now that your customers or carriers or just the business environment in general is requiring you to do it, well, you did it. You grew the six-toe that goes out sideways and has the special claw do it well you did it you know you you grew you grew the

six toe that goes out sideways and has the special claw on it because you had to yeah exactly well hey man i uh i obviously think the world of you and your work and um yeah likewise buddy i appreciate it and uh i i'm i'm glad that you that you guys do things like this survey because it, it just, it gets people having conversations. It shows them, it, I think it just, it helps show them that there's light at the end of the tunnel, that these things are possible, that their peers are making it happen, that, that there's hope for them in the places where maybe they feel lost or that they have blind spots. And, and I'm just glad you're willing to share your time with, with me and everyone that's listening. So thanks so much, dude. Yeah. Anytime, buddy. And I, I certainly don're willing to share your time with me and everyone that's listening. So thanks so much, dude.

Yeah, anytime, buddy. And I certainly don't want to prolong the conversation since I'm the last thing standing between you and a weekend. So, yeah, I hope you have a great weekend. Thank you for having me on, Ryan. I appreciate it very much. You're good, buddy. Yeah. Thank you. You go fuck yourself and your fat fucking ass. Yeah, we We're gonna rock Take it easy, my brother Charlie

Take it easy, buddy, we can go Take it easy, my brother Charlie Take it easy, buddy, we can go Take it easy, my brother Charlie Take it easy, buddy, we can go Take it easy, my brother Charlie Take it easy, buddy, we can go Do you want to have a few drinks and smoke a joint bubbles? Yes. Yeah, me Yeah, me Yeah, me

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