The Ryan Hanley Show - RHS 181 - Leaving Captivity for the Good Life with James Jenkins

Episode Date: May 4, 2023

Became a Master of the Close: https://masteroftheclose.comIn this episode of The Ryan Hanley Show, we're serenaded by the dulcet tones of the all-powerful James Jenkins.James is an innovator and an eternally curious problem solver. He's an unapologetic risk and insurance nerd who gets excited about things that bore most people. Faith and family are the two most important things to James.This is an episode you don't want to miss...Episode Highlights: James shares a story about the creation of Who Framed Roger Rabbit, emphasizing the significance of small details even when most people don't notice them. (7:04) Ryan discusses his experiences dealing with ADHD, how he manages it, and his recent decision to stop using pot. (11:54) James talks about the process of writing his book and getting positive feedback from someone, not in the insurance field. (26:11) James shares some of the diverse opinions on his book from those in the industry. (33:26) James delves into the subjectivity of the term "best" and why it isn't a helpful metric for measuring success. (38:59) James discusses the editing process that made his book more engaging and concise. (48:19) James shares what RiskWell is all about. (55:27) Key Quotes:“What RiskWell is, is nothing more than the humans that are here that create shared experience that together works to make an impact on our stakeholders, which includes you and this audience.” - James JenkinsResources Mentioned: James Jenkins LinkedIn  RiskWell Reach out to Ryan Hanley Rogue Risk Finding Peak Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home. Hello everyone and welcome back to the show. Today we have an absolutely tremendous episode for you. Conversation with James Jenkins, the man with the voice. Big fan of James. We actually had the opportunity to work together a couple weeks ago. We both were presenting to Assure Alliance, which is in South Carolina. Had a chance to talk to an audience of probably a couple hundred plus.

It was a pretty incredible experience because my way is definitely different from James's. And as he mentions in the podcast, it was probably like some sort of trippy experience to have me ranting and raving and walking back and forth and all the crazy contextual, you know, crap and cursing. And, and then he comes in and he kind of stands next to the podium. It's very like professorial, you know, presentation. And, you know, he's just, you know, he prepares and to the nth degree. And, you know, my way is more while I have a plan, I kind of have a start and a finish, and then I have no idea how I'm going to get there. It was just very fun and interesting and dynamic. And then to have a chance to follow that up with this podcast conversation,

pretty incredible. And really, James is here to talk about his new book, Leaving Captivity, which is awesome. I had a chance to read an early copy and give him notes, which we discussed as well. This book, whether you're a captive agent actually leaving the captive environment and thinking about starting your own independent, or you're a producer in an agency and you're thinking about starting your own independent, or you actually are a principal or working in an agency and you're completely happy, this book has something for you. It really does. It's dynamic and fun, and I think it's very uniquely James and well worth the read for any insurance wonks out there.

Although even if you're not in the insurance industry and for some reason you listen to this podcast, you will still get something out of it, I promise. Before we get to James, I want to give a quick shout out to Tivly, T-I-V-L-Y.com, T-I-V-L-Y.com, T-I-V-L-Y.com, Tivly as in positively, Tivly.com. Used to be commercialinsurance.com. Tivoli, as in positively. Tivoli.com. Used to be commercialinsurance.net. Guys, we continue to integrate our business deeper and deeper and deeper with Tivoli, or intertwine, I guess is a better way to put it, because they've just become such a tremendous partner for us in so many of the different things that we do, everything from

ramping up new producers to targeting certain markets to targeting certain classes. They are a core bedrock piece of our business and I couldn't be happier for them just as a partner, whether they sponsored the show or not, but also honored when one of our partners decides that they want to talk to you guys and get in front of you guys. And for the partners that I think add real value, I love sharing how we use these tools and how I think they can be valuable for you. So go to tivly.comcom and if you want to give me a shot i say hey hanley sent me but um there's no like function for that they just you know they know when they see amazing agents reach out to them that they must be listening i can't even say it with a straight face they must be listeners to

this show um that being said guys i love you for listening this show you know that um i'm trying to put more and more work into finding peak as well That's where I'm doing a lot of written content, nerding out on some topics, doing deep dives outside of insurance, right? All the stuff that we don't talk about a lot, our health, our mentality, leadership skills, business ideas, personal development, because all these things impact our business as well. And then I also do kind of nerdy deep dives and a lot of things that we learned and I recently shared. If you go to Finding Pete today, you'll see the opening open-ended question is the first in a five video series that I'm doing around our inbound digital sales process. And if you become a subscriber to that series, then you also can download the PDF,

which basically I've given to every one of our salespeople. We talk through it with our entire team. And it is really the outline for how we do business. So when it comes to inbound digital sales and selling. So if you want that, go there. But as always, you don't have to. I love you for listening to this show. Regardless, I think you're all absolutely amazing.

And I hope you crush the day. All right, right with that let's get on to james jenkins what's up dude i picked the wrong time to put sushi in my mouth. Crap. I should have known better, because you're going to start recording and airing this crap the second that we get on. What if we say something smart and the record button hasn't been hit yet? I mean, you make a valid point. I really can't argue with you.

I mean, it's definitely happened in a 60 minute period where i've talked a lot and not said one smart thing so i don't want to miss any of them well you said it not me man i'm not gonna not gonna start by being smart with the host hey let let me uh i gotta grab some liquid something or else my throat's gonna get dry one second go ahead we got some bougie water there you got the you got the bougie water on water is that what i see yeah it's topo chico i'm completely bougie it's the little things in life man i left because we had that bag for all this stuff because i thought we're going to record at hilton head yeah my good headphones are sitting in the bag in my backpack at home so i've got like 15 year old apple air whatever's in one of those good news is in the modern podcasting world i don't know that anybody

cares i could be right i do care about things that most people don't care about. Yeah. That's, that's, uh, as my wife says. Yeah. You know, Hey, and that's fine. That's the way, that's the way it should be. I mean, you, you, um, it's more than a hobby to you. You like it, you're new nerd out on it. And those little things matter. And I think that's great. I think that, you know, the reason I make comments like that is important for people, I think for people to understand that that isn't necessary. It's important to you

because of, you know, this is something you nerd out on and you love it. And it's a hobby, you know, like I said, it's more than a hobby for you. Like you, you really enjoy it. And it's something you're passionate about and that's great. And I audio quality and all that stuff. It's great. I mean, I don't produce the video and, but I'm sure many of you listening have seen james's background but it's lit up the back lights and the neon it's awesome i could just give two flying fucks about any of that stuff personally i think it's amazing that doesn't mean i don't think it's amazing i do i think it looks gangster as hell i just personally could care less have you heard the story about bump the lamp no roger rabbit no dude if this is you can tuck this away in your in your story vault i heard this

at a at a conference a few years ago uh and man it's stuck with me ever since robert zemeckis director of uh who framed roger rabbit which at its day was absolutely revolutionary like it was amazing the matrix level revolutionary for cinema at the time so the the art people frame by frame they were like hand drawing every frame 24 frames per second so i mean literally thousands of frames throughout the movie and there's this one scene in the movie when uh i forget the the guy's name the human the old older guy he's trying to put roger rabbit in handcuffs and there's this scene because there's there's a lamp in the middle of the table in this scene and they're just like wrestling and roger rabbit bumps the lamp in the script but it created this back and forth swinging motion that was absolute nightmare for the the artist to do to their level of satisfaction

so they reach out to robert zemeckis and like hey man can we not bump the lamp like it's a little thing most people aren't even going to care it's's such a pain. Can we please just not bump the lamp and move on about it? And Zemeckis writes back to the artist team. He says, simply bump the lamp. Yeah. And the story is most people won't care. Most people won't notice. Yep.

But the ones that do that 2%, that will be freaking cool to them. And they will remember it forever because the ones that care really care. And so like that whole notion of bump the lamp, do the extra 2% is now. Now, the next time you think of Roger Rabbit, you're gonna be like, hey, what scene was that lamp in? Yeah, I actually know the scene was in eddie valiant's office you're a fan okay oh fuck yeah i love frame roger that movie's amazing amazing it's so weird in the most beautiful way yeah and like so so for people who haven't seen who framed roger abbott which would mean that you were a weirdo and you probably shouldn't be listening to this show if that's the case um but like this is the first there was another movie called cool world that tried to do

this first and it wasn't very good and who framed roger rabbit came out really close and was actually i think second i'm pretty sure i'm pretty sure that who framed roger rabbit was second um in the integration of cartoons and or animation and live action so you have this guy this character eddie valiant who's played by bob haskins um i had to look the bob haskins part up i remembered eddie valiant i was about to say bravo yeah no i knew i had to look up the bob haskins part i knew eddie valiant but um but uh uh so eddie valiant's the main character and he's a human he's you know and then and then there's this toon world on the other side of this tunnel which is all cartoons and it's all like the wacky old school Looney Tunes and Disney characters like a hodgepodge of

and like when I remember watching that as a kid I'm like what like tune, like cartoon genre is this? Cause it had, you know, Bugs Bunny, but it also had Betty Boop. And I was like, this is just wild. And it's, you know, there's this whole thing that plays out, which is really funny, but, but it's, it is, it was a, it was a very interesting movie at the time. And I, and I, I just, just i loved it i thought it was so funny and um just a cool what a cool concept to think that there's this world through a tunnel that's like cartoon characters and it was also you know it had it had good it had comedy before woke made all movies terrible so like this is like from what the 80s 1988 yeah i looked it up so uh you know this is when people could still be funny and interesting and like you know there's sexism both ways and there's guys getting kicked in the groin

and you know there's there's just all these uh you know you know sex references and like jessica rabbit is like this ridiculous character you know caricature of like this voluptuous woman in this ridiculous dress with red hair and she's married to roger rabbit who is like this bananas like looks like a cartoon and it's just the whole thing is wild but to your point there's a lot of stuff in there that if you're a nerd you'll never forget that movie yeah bump the lamp baby all the normies out there are like what are you two morons talking well they've already stopped listening they moved on or they just didn't click is it like jenkins and hanley nah pass yeah i so i was talking to my i was talking to my uh counselor she doesn't like when i call her a therapist the other day uh i was talking to

her and um i think i've shared with everybody on the show that like about this year since since since my divorce um i've kind of realized or been diagnosed it's probably a better way to put it with having adhd which whatever most people zero people are surprised at this yeah that probably doesn't surprise a lot of people and and not that i was surprised but i certainly fought it for a long time because I, I kind of, I didn't understand what it meant, what it was doesn't matter. Um, and so I was telling my counselor as like, I've gotten more in tune with how to, what it, what it has allowed me to do is communicate with people better because now when I'm talking to someone who I know doesn't have ADHD, I try very hard to be more focused, more, more

linear in my thought patterns, um, talk a little slower. And I refer to these people as normies, um, which is not normal at all. And, uh, I, I, she's like, well, that sounds a little derogatory. And I was like, well. I said, I don't mean it to be, but then I said, maybe I kind of do at the same time. I don't know, like so many people have given me shit for so long about how scattered I am or how fast I talk or whatever. And and I'm like, this is kind of like my little subtle jab to say, like, hey, I feel like I've kind of harnessed this superpower. And, you know, you normies can't keep up. That's your fault. You know, I don't know. You and I are very close in age.

And when we were growing up, they didn't really have these diagnoses that came around like a decade later. I've never been officially diagnosed ADHD, but if you asked my wife or anybody on my team, I, I guarantee you all of them be like, Oh yeah, he definitely has ADHD. I had Adderall for a number of years. I got off of it because it made me a really unpleasant person to be around. Yeah. I, uh, I was using, I was using pot for a while to manage my brain. Um, but I recently stopped about a month ago. Um, even though Cass and I talked a lot about it on the episode that I did with him. Uh, that was an interesting episode, by the way.

Yeah, that was fun. That was a fun one. Um, y'all got into it. It was in, yeah. Knowing both of you individually, it was like, Oh man, where's my popcorn. Let's go. That's how knowing both of you individually it was like oh man where's my popcorn let's go yeah that's how we talked i mean that that's like a i it was funny cast after we stopped casco's dude i freaking forgot that we were recording that for a while he's like i completely forgot and i was like yeah me too i was we were just talking um but like i think you know what

so so that was recorded like maybe say a month or so before it aired. And now we're like a month or so after it aired. So about a month ago, I quit because what I found is similar to like the Adderall thing that while, yes, it helps me pull in all these different things that are happening in my brain at one time, and I can be much more focused. One, it has to be a very specific, very specific levels of THC and CBD. If like high THC content, like super, like these 30, 30 percenters or whatever, that shit, I can't handle that. That, that does not work for me at all. I feel terrible feel terrible and then but if I get the right mix and it's like such a pain in the ass because if it's not the right mix and I just I don't feel very

good and what it absolutely does is it destroys my creativity destroys my creativity when I when I am consistently using pot uh I just am not as creative I'm not as sharp i don't like it um i do find i'm more manic though when i'm off of it so like i have more more times when like i'm a little more manic which i have to get better at controlling but like the the the um and by manic i mean i let my emotions get out over my skis so you guys know what that means like yeah um like i'll give you an example yesterday so yesterday one of my team members who's been with us for two years, she has her annual review. We do our reviews in April and, and she shares that she got another job offer and she's considering it. She's a highly valued member of the team. I want to keep her. I've done a couple of things personally for her that it really,

it like hurt my feelings. And I know you're not supposed to do that. I know you're not supposed to get attached or whatever, but I was like, holy shit. Like I've like done some things off the books for her to help her in different situations, because that's what we do.

It's a human game we're playing. Yes. And it was like, it was like getting punched in the gut. You know, I felt like getting punched in the gut. That I'm like, and I just started going down this rabbit hole in my brain of like, I'm too nice to these motherfuckers. Like, I'm way too nice to them. Like, we have this culture, and it's family, and we get along and everyone, and we take care of each other. And I take care of my people. If you work here, even if I don't really like you, I'm going to take care of you because you work

here, you're part of you're in the circle, right? That's the way it is people. If you work here, even if I don't really like you, I'm going to take care of you because you work here. You're part of, you're in the circle, right? That's the way it is. It's like a family, even if it's not. And, and, and I know that every book would tell you to detach from the outcome and this is, this is business and it's the way it is. And I do think that that's a better way to think about it. Um, in general, or I don't want to say better. That is a way to think about it that allows you to defend against these types of feelings. But I felt myself starting to get out over my skis, like, because I was hurt, you know, I mean, I felt like, oh, my God, like, I, I am, I would like to believe that I am absolutely a servant leader. And I tell people that, like, my job is, is to be in service of

my team members so that they can be the best versions of themselves. That's really my job is. And, and it just really was a gut punch. And I felt myself going into my next meeting. I was like, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And it was, it was just, I was off the hook. I couldn't slow down. I couldn't, I couldn't rein it in. I was just full on because I had let my emotions kind of get ahead of me. And that's when I say manic, that's what I mean. I just, you turned into a bulldozer and whatever was in front of you was going to get plowed. Yes. And, and thankfully the woman that I was meeting with was capable of accepting it and understands, and it was fine. And actually it was productive, but it was just, I got done with the meeting and I literally went for a 25 minute walk around my neighborhood to kind of like bring myself back in because I had, I had, I had allowed myself. Now here's the weird part.

When I'm, when I, when I'm consistently using pot, that doesn't happen as much, right? I'm I, that doesn't happen. But the problem is, the reason it doesn't happen is because I'm dulled. And with that dulling, yes, I don't get out over my skis emotionally. But I also can't be creative and connective. And I don't feel razor sharp, which I really like, I really like that. It is both a blessing and a curse. But I really like. I really like that it is both a blessing and a curse, but I really like that for whatever reason, God has given me this edge and anything that dulls it, I really don't like.

So I quit about a month ago. Good for you, man. That was a very long-winded way of saying I quit smoking pot a month ago. Well, and I think it's important because it speaks to individual decision-making that aligns with what you're about. You know, as we'll talk about later in the episode, like it also I mean, chapter one, vision, mission and values that frames the conversation and serves as a good basis for decision making. And you decided that, you know, regularly smoking pot is not in alignment with your values and what you're shooting for. Yeah, in your daily performance

and your ability to remain sharp. So we have different ways of saying exactly the same thing. But it was just that behavior was out of alignment with who you want to be and what expressions of your values you want to manifest. Yeah. I think that, you know, I think one of the hard things that I think we all struggle with and, you know, you talk about this a little bit about in your book. And I want to talk a little bit about the editing process and all that kind of stuff too. I'm an open book. Yes. Yeah. Nice. You know, the, I think that,

so I listen to Andy for Sella a lot from he used to do the MFCO project. Now his podcast called real AF you know, he, he gets, he gets knocked on sometimes because he is very pro America, very pro freedom. And he curses a lot. But one, he's the 75 hard guy, right? Yes. First, he owns first form and supplement superstores and he's based out of St. Louis. And, and when I first started listening to him, was like you know he just the curses were a lot and even though I like to curse it's like take however much if you listen to this show however

much I curse it's like 3x how much I curse right so like it's a lot but and I was like yeah I didn't really get it and the more I listened to him the more I realized the more I started to like him right and I was like, he cursed a lot. OK, and I don't personally have a problem with it. It just at first I wasn't sure if it was a shtick or not. I don't like shticky cursing. It's kind of distracting to me. Yeah, I will say it used to be.

I also think that he's matured a little bit over the last few years and it doesn't seem it used to be kind of shock jockey. And now it just feels more it's a little I don't know, it feels to be kind of shock jockey. And now it just feels more, it's a little, I don't know. It feels more integrated into the show or whatever. It's fine. But what I, what I've taken from him and listening to him so much and like, I've never done 75 hard. I've, I want to, but to be honest with you, I love, I like, I like drinking too much, which I do.

It's probably terrible, but I do. And, and I don't, I don't care. I want to, on a Saturday, I want to be able to pour myself a nice glass of whiskey or bourbon or whatever. And I want to relax with my, you know, out on my porch. And I that's, that's what I want to do. I just, I like the whole point of 75 hard is mental toughness and grit and resilience. Yes, you're in the gym regularly. You're a fit guy. You're physically strong. You're mentally strong. And in a lot of ways. I don't know if you need 75 hard. Well, people out there that consider themselves undisciplined. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of gain from that. But for folks like you and I, I don't know if there's that much water in that well, you know? Well, yes and no. Yes. Yes. In that versus someone who's

50 pounds overweight, isn't hitting their sales goals, can't seem to get out of their way, is very unhappy with how they wake up every morning, their station in life. Yes. I have a tremendous amount of more discipline and so do you then than that person. Um, but I also, my goals are the goals that I have. The more I get focused on where I want to take my career, the number of people that I want to impact, the real impact I want to have on this industry. You know, the bigger things like right now, we're just getting rogue going, right? We're just getting it producing revenue, we're getting us producing premium, we're doing some of the like blocking and tackling

foundational shit. But like, just having a productive agency, I mean, we'll be doing probably a million in premium a month by the end of the year. That that's nothing. I want to do 10 million in premium a month. And I want to place a hundred to 200 new agencies with either rogue risk, rogue risk, uh, agencies or SI member agencies. Um, I want to place, you know, somewhere between a hundred and 200 new producers every year. Like I want to be a mechanism of growth and I have all these plans to do that and whatever. And like, those things don't take even, even slightly above average discipline. Like there's part of me that's like, all right, if we're going to really play this game and

see how good we can be, we kind of have to go even a step further. And that was a big part of the pot thing was like, I mean, dude, there's nothing better than after a long, stressful day at nine o'clock rolling yourself a doobie and, and sitting out on the porch and hanging out. I mean, it's fucking great. But then when you wake up the next morning and you feel like you can't hit your diary or your journal very well, or you're not really motivated to read, or you're struggling to get a blog post out or even be creative in the way you handle an email or a conversation or a Slack message because you're a little foggy, that's unacceptable to me, I mean, that's the point is that that shit is fine if you want to be a producer. I just want to be a producer, make a couple hundred thousand bucks, go to local events, pound my chest, bang my wife or my husband, whatever, or my spouse, whatever my other person is.

And like, that's fine. That's what you want to do. And there's nothing wrong with that lifestyle. But, you know, I think for me, certainly, I think also from you and the different things that conversations we have, I think that you have to hold yourself to an even higher standard. And that is what I've taken from this Annie for sell a guy is that there is, there's being a slob, there's adding some discipline to your life and you can get 80% of the way

there to where you want to be with just even, even the smallest amounts of discipline, right? Just the small, pick a thing or two, maybe just reading in the morning and going for a walk or you you know journaling every morning and brain dumping and taking a cold shower pick two things and do those two things and your life will change dramatically but if you want to go to another level if you want to play a game that most read about in books, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard. And that is where I will say right now, my discipline falls apart. Yeah, no, that makes sense. No, there, there was something in me that shifted.

And I forget exactly when it happened. I wasn't paying that close of attention to the internal dialogue. But during the process of writing the book when i it was somewhere between sending it out to the six of you um and like getting to the end where it's like okay this this is ready like it's going to get published this is what people are going to see somewhere in there i forget who it was that i sent it to but they they said this is you know what it was i just remembered sorry i'm thinking out loud here it was the guy that i recorded the audiobook with he's a client yep uh owns a music and recording studio uh in fresco and he's outside the industry he doesn't know anything about any of this stuff he's totally not even remotely close to the target audience but we're

recording in his studio and we get done we're i have for two or three chapters and he's like i read a lot of books this is really good i was like man thank you like yeah you don't really know me you certainly don't know the industry that i come from so the fact that he i mean chapter two is all about headspace and discipline and like grits and whatnot and chapter three is talking about time and you know extracting the most value from your minutes and hours and it's like this has nothing to do with insurance at all it has absolutely zero to do with insurance yeah it's about being a good business owner good entrepreneur a you know an effective you know person in an enterprise situation but it you know what you're right mr so-and-so who's outside the industry this you don't have to be

an agency owner or a producer or aspire to be one of those two to get something out of it it was like it it dawned on me at that point it's like why can't people think of me at some some point in the future obviously i'm nowhere near there yet but people refer to you know um patrick lencioni all the time it's like he's written some really effective books i'm i'm never going to be a simon cynic or or Ryan Holiday or whatever. But who's to say I can't be someone who has that kind of impact like those guys have had on me, like Angela Duckworth and other people that write books that have real impact. I was like, those people have changed how I do business. A lot of them, like John Maxwell, for instance, as just a one-off, have changed how I do life.

They've changed the decisions that I make. Andy Prezella, a good example. That's impact that goes way beyond money, that goes way beyond business success. And I know it's ridiculous because it's something that only people with money say, but the money's not that important. At a certain point, you're struggling to make money because you don't have that much and you've got to make your mortgage and your car payment and whatnot. But after a little bit of success, you're like, wait a second, the money's just a way of keeping score. It's not really important at all. Yeah. That's something that for sell us is all the time, you know?

And so I have two thoughts on this particular vein of conversation. And one is, and I don't think you're being this way. So don't, please don't take it that way. But some of the, like, don't think about the money, money doesn't matter. Like that vein of conversation sometimes, depending on the person, I find it very patronizing because I'm like, motherfucker, you make half a million dollars million dollars a year like and you're telling me money doesn't matter like fuck you you know like yeah like i just said it's people with money tend to say that yes so but so i think there's i think you know and and this is one again one of the things that

i like about for sell and so i don't want to take credit for his thought but he'll say all the time like step number one is make enough money to survive. So before you think about personal excellence and you know, all this crazy shit, you got to go get a job that makes you enough money that you're not living on your parents' couch that you, you know, you have your own car, like get your basic life shit squared away. Okay. Do that for six months, live that life, pay your bills, make sure your phone stays on. And then, and okay. Now, now, now you have that. You've kind of set whatever you need to do in place and have routines and habits, a job so that your basics are there. Now you start to make the small incremental changes that allow you to work towards that next level. Cause I agree with

you. Like, you know, know, it is, you know, you do hit a certain amount of personal income where you stop thinking about money all the time. But I do think that, you know, to some people who hear that, they're like, Jesus, you know, I'm on zero every Friday before the paycheck comes. Like you're telling me to take cold showers and go for runs and, you know,

read books. And I, and I'm like, I'm like stressed to the max because I can barely get out of my own way. And on Fridays I'm staring at a zero bank account and hitting refresh on the chase screen until the money hits, you know, like it's a really, it's a really difficult thing for people. And I think that, you know, what happens is we get set in these routines, we surround ourselves with people that make us feel comfortable. And, you know, to some of the stuff in your book, and what you're trying to do with the whole larger concept of leaving captivity is that, you know, in particular, I think we could we could put in an entire genre of people,

captive agents that are seemingly not the very few that, that make it past escape velocity, uh, agents inside of agencies that have no real future, right? They're just always just going to be an agent and they're unhappy with that. Um, and when I say just an agent, I do want to put the caveat on it. Some people love being an agent and that is completely fine. I think in all these scenarios, it is important to remember that what, what, what, what the people James is writing his book to that I talk about are the people who are in these situations and are unhappy with that station,

not the people. Yes. And that doesn't mean wanting more is right. Right. It comes with a lot of trade-offs that you have to make in your life, but if you do that's that's kind of the thought process so um kind of going all the way back so you sent me the rough draft or some version one of the iterations of a rough draft of this and i made it through the first chapter and sent it back to you and uh you made it further than chapter one this time i hope i did yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um i will if I'm being candid, I blew through some parts just because I kind of got the gist of it, but I read, I read a lot of it. I thought you did a really good job. I was very happy with, versus what I read the first time, I was very happy with what I read the second time, because I think it was much closer to your best

work, and you'll never get all the way there. I'll never get all the way there. But I thought- And that's the part that drives me insane. Yeah, can't you can't even expect that but i so so talk me through a little bit um you know i you send this out or whatever and you said you're one of the only people like that can't you know most people send back like hey good job or whatever and i was like this is almost unreadable to me um yeah you know what was it was really interesting to me the different approaches to feedback because you were on brand for how you are you were an absolute savage and basically said if we weren't friends I wouldn't have made it past the first page this is you know very heady

wordy self-important drivel is basically what it wasn't quite that harsh but it was i here's the thing i'm always going to be way harsher on myself than literally anyone else on the planet you could have said this is absolute shit and i would have been like okay well there i see that perspective yeah but i mean like carothers wrote back and i think it was two sentences he was like yeah it's good and i forget what the what but his he's so high level because he's into 48 000000 different things. And I was grateful to have any feedback from all of y'all. And Ciara was, I mean, basically early stage kind of feedback of, hey, I appreciate you talking about X because I don't really know about that yet. And that was basically where she came at it from.

And then Don and Ro Polzenski just chopped the chapter five to pieces the financial chapter and chapter six is about social stuff and like relationships and I was a little pessimist at the first draft and Don and Ro were like do you really feel this way about your peers in the industry about how most people are not impressive most people in the industry are kind of meh i was like if i'm being honest yeah most people in the industry are average at best mediocre performers who don't try nearly as hard as they're capable of trying because they have other things that they care more about and it's not that they're bad people i'm not saying that at all i'm just saying they're not like moonshot performers and in phoenix one of the lines that i'm i'm giving in my keynote

and i think this is coming out after we're probably what a month out from this airing ish yeah okay it'll be around it'll be probably around Phoenix or just after. What's up guys. Sorry to take you away from the episode, but as you know, we do not run ads on this show in an exchange for that. I need your help. If you're loving this episode, if you enjoy this podcast, whether you're watching on YouTube or you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, I would love for you to subscribe, share, comment.

If you're on YouTube, leave a rating review. If you're on Spotify or Apple, iTunes, et cetera. This helps the show grow. It helps me bring more guests in. We have a tremendous lineup of people coming in, men and women who've done incredible things, sharing their stories around peak performance, leadership, growth, sales, the things that are going to help you grow as a person and grow your business. But they all check out comments, ratings, reviews. They check out all this information before they come on. So as I reach

out to more and more people and want to bring them in and share their stories with you, I need your help. Share the show, subscribe if you're not subscribed. And I'd love for you to leave a comment about the show because I read all the comments. Or if you're on Apple or Spotify, leave a rating review of this show. I love you for listening to this show and I hope you enjoy it. Listening as much as I do creating the show for you. All right, I'm out of here. Peace. Let's get back to the episode. One of the lines that I have in that keynote is average is subjective. For instance, most of you in this room are average. And I'm not saying that as this basically direct word for word what I'm saying from stage. I don't say that as an insult. I say that as a statistical reality of this set of people in this room right now, most of you are in the statistical middle of

the bell curve of the people in this room right now. And it's like, if you want to be more than the statistical average of whatever the population is, you got to do things to move beyond average you have to act and behave and think in ways that open the door to north of average and most people never get there for whatever reason and don and roe were like i think you need to take that really big negativity out and find a different way to say that because you're insulting most of your peers. And I'm like, valid. Okay. Let me find a different way of saying that. Because I definitely don't intend to insult my peers. If anything, it's more remind them of what they're capable of and invite the ones that want it to come on. Yeah. I think the important caveat there

is want it in insurance, right? Yeah. Because like there's a guy, there's a couple of agents that I know that like they love, you know, like cooking and smoking meat. And if you go on, you know, they just, they love it

and it's what they do and they take these beautiful pictures and it's amazing and they're great insurance agents, but they're not as great insurance agents as they are at making these delicious meat candy. And it's what they love it. And they serve it to their family and everyone comes over and it's this big thing. And that's what they love to do where they, they love playing golf.

Right. Maybe they'll never be. So it's like, I think what we always have to remind ourselves of is like, like if you're going to, you know, and this is one of the things that people always say, like the buying courses and people never use them. And I think the problem is people buy courses because they haven't yet figured out that insurance isn't what they want to be the thing they're the best at. Yeah. Which is completely fine. Yeah, it is. Frankly, you know,

I don't want to be the best insurance salesperson. I don't want to be the best insurance. Well, I do. I would like to be the best insurance marketer. I don't think I will be, but I do think that there are certain, there are all kinds of different things that we can pick. And the key is to be disciplined in the actions that make you the best at the thing that you actually want to be the

best that you can be at. And that doesn't have to be insurance, or it could be some subset of the insurance industry, or it could be, you just want to dominate the world, eat people's lunch, step on throats and stand on top of the mountain, given the flex sign and a big F you. And it all just depends on what your, what your goals are. Um, but none of that happens without discipline and without focus. I agree. And the main reason why I'm never going to try to be that guy is there's always a bigger dog. No matter what success you reach, unless you're one out of 8 billion, and you happen to win the genetic lottery, and you have buckets of hustle, and you're at the right place at the right time. And you're Elon

Musk. Everybody, there's only one best. But every best is subjective because what metrics are we using? What filters are we using to determine best? And the idea of best, I think is ridiculous. And like Simon Sinek said in his book, the infinite game, which was one of my absolute favorite reads in the last several years, great read. It's like better is better than best because best is totally subjective. Better is objective. Better is a lot more measurable than best because you can take what you used to be. You can take what you are and you can have an objective measurement that says I'm better. Yeah. Best is totally subjective and worthless in my mind. Well, the other thing too is, and there's some studies around this, that like the whole concept of best doesn't actually give us purpose. Yeah.

We find the most purpose and ultimately purpose is derivative happiness when we are, when we believe we are at our best, right? So best is really a goal meant to be, and probably, and I like the way that you positioned it, that, you know, with the, with the better, it's really about, are you the best you can be? And that, and that really, you know, when I talk about world domination, all this kind of stuff, yeah, I'm being kind of facetious and I think it's fun. And I like, it like annoys people, which also makes me happy. But, um, you like that gladiator stick that aligns with your personality. It aligns with the brand that you've crafted. You're, you're a rebel. You're irreverent.

You don't care what people think. And what you just said aligns perfectly with this persona that you've spent the last almost 20 years crafting. But it's also, I will say in the last year, because, you know, one of the things that getting divorced has allowed me to do is spend a lot more time being self-reflective and introspective and all that kind of stuff is that I've really tried to focus on when I make that joke about world domination, what I'm talking about really is I want to see what I'm capable of. Rogue will never be as big as Marsh or some mega agency

or whatever. And it doesn't have to be that, that, that's the purpose. That's not the purpose of being, I don't care if we're ever in the top 100, but I, I'm my, I guess my goal is, and I'll feel, I want to be able to say, I, I figured out what, what my best was. I figured it out. I experienced it. My best, the best that I could do. I, I got to that point. That was, you know, no matter where that ranks me and whatever, I could literally care less because, and I'll never, you know, and there's certain clubs I'll never be asked to join because of the way that I am. I just, you know, I won't be asked to join certain clubs. You know, I've been, I've been specifically kicked out of certain clubs in the insurance

industry. So, you know, there's, there's places I will never get to or be part of or whatever, and that's perfectly fine. But I, I think, and I, and I, I guess this is a hope that I have for our peers is that we, we find we someday we, we can say at the end of our careers, whenever that is, man, you know what? I figured out what my best was. I got there. I had moments. I was there for a period of time where, man, I just was locked in. Things were cooking.

We were doing great. Made some awesome decisions. Met some great people. Did things I never thought were possible. And that feels really good. I think the people who get to the end of the career and they feel a little bitter or unhappy or confused about what to do next, so much of that is, I think in their heart of hearts, they know they didn't try as hard as they possibly could. And that there's something off in our soul there. I think our soul knows that. I think that there's

a disconnect between the honesty of, I know I didn't give 100%, but here I am. I got to live with the fact that I left something on the table. And that's a sad moment, I feel like, and trying to make sure that that doesn't happen. And again, to the point that I honestly don't care if I ever win an award. I don't care if I'm ever on a list. None of that means anything. It's, it's just, you know, I want to be able to say I was the best version of myself at this thing that I really care about. Yeah. You're swinging hard i love it yeah so okay so i send you this uh loom video review of the first chapter of your book and i just pulled up the uh google doc that i sent you where i made comments i highlighted the entire first paragraph and i wrote need a better hook your open line

your open line needs to grab the reader honestly i would have stopped after the first two sentences i wasn't reading this for if i was reading this for real um you know one of the things that i like about you in general is that i knew you could take that feedback yeah absolutely you know i think that that's i have incredibly thick skin i've developed it over the years of being the butt of many jokes when you when you have a really strong personality. And this is something that Nick Ayers and I have talked about in years past, because I honestly, I struggled with being able to receive harsh critique and take it in stride. And Nick said, and I know this is something that you align with, because I've seen you, I've listened to many episodes of your podcast, Nick said, if you're not pissing off 25 or 30% of your audience, yeah, probably not saying anything of substance anyway. Yes. And just learning becoming totally okay, with people being upset. Yeah's that's something that took a long time and i'm not all the way there because i still care what people think way more than i'd like to admit obviously

and i put this book out there in the into the the wild and you know by the time this episode drops you'll be able to go to amazon and buy it it's like oh man i hope they like it they as in the general public which is a terrifying proposition yeah sorry carry on yeah i think let me give credit where credit is due for starters because you offered up a suggestion for the first line of the book and after a lot of reflection i'm like i like that first line i think that makes sense and so ran with it. So if you're reading the book, and you think, man, this book didn't exist when I needed it most. So I wrote it. It's like, okay, well, I got to give credit where credit's due, Mr. Hanley, that that one's from you, buddy. Yeah, I well, thank you. I mean, it's just I mean, all the thoughts are yours. It's a the other thing I thought was really interesting and i and i was glad when i reread it was um you were telling us a lot of things that you weren't gonna say and like that

was also one of the first things that i noticed you're like i'm not gonna talk about sales i'm not gonna i'm like and one of my i just read one of my comments it's like if you're not gonna talk about it don't talk about it don't tell me you're gonna talk about it because i don't give a fuck because you're telling me that you're not gonna know it reminded me of josh brine and he's like i hate it when people say i'll be brief because when you say i'll be brief you're not being brief yes you've just you've just broken exactly what you told me you weren't gonna do just wasted three seconds yeah so um but dude i i i i think that what came out the other end was awesome. This is classic, classic first draft, you know, or, or early draft stuff. You always have more words in the first draft than you do in the, in the final version. That's, that's the whole game is you,

you fill it up with all the words and then you use friends and editors and whatever to carve out the words and come back with something that's, that's, that's crisper and cleaner. come back with something that's that's that's crisper and cleaner you want to know what's funny that's not what happened at all what do you mean i added 20 000 words to what was the first draft but i guess what i mean let me rephrase that it is not filled with stuff that doesn't matter there's virtually no filler it's punchier that i guess let me so i'll put that another way i what I mean is you fill it with words. Everything's words, sentences are long. They're you're using ands and all this stuff. And then when you start to crisp it up, you go,

Hey, I could, I can, instead of saying this in 12 words, I can say an eight words, instead of saying this in 20 words, I can say it in seven words and like everything gets punchy and snappy. And it was the, the final version is way snappier and um you know i like i like that a lot so let's you know we we have uh uh uh to be to be fair to the audience we have you know a little bit of time minutes left ish what is your favorite chapter like when you when you when you look at this and you think back about it and you think about you know this whole project and you think about the book itself and you think back about it and you think about you know this whole project and you think about the book itself and you know what is and it doesn't mean it'll be

your audience's favorite chapter but what's your favorite chapter what's the chapter that like when you read it you're like shit i i fucking nailed that like i nailed that chapter like that was awesome the and i very intentionally set up the structure of the book so that it finishes really strong one of the things that annoys me the most about the way that some authors do it is you can tell when you get near the end of the book they just kind of ran out of steam and the the in the last two or three chapters of a lot of books there's recap and there's like summarizing and restating thoughts from earlier in the book i didn't want to write that book um there's 13 total chapters um i i'm most proud of 12 and 13 and i think chapter two which is talking about grit and resilience and overcoming

adversity and like hardening your mind against all the all the suck that we all deal with yeah because chapter two wasn't in the book originally and before i sent out the first draft i made a decision to be super vulnerable and talk about one of the hardest conversations I've ever had in my career, where at that point, one of the biggest prospects I had ever had a chance at. And in reality, I never really actually had a chance at it. I was swinging way above my weight class. And they told me, you're not good enough. You don't have what we need. No amount of hustle from you is going to meet the needs that we have. You just don't have what it takes. You need to better

yourself. And if you want to win accounts like ours, and I'll remember that conversation with that senior VP of something for the rest of my career, because it's what catapulted me into, you know, the mindset now of, I'm never going to get beat on knowledge. You might beat me because you have a better market, or you have more experience, or you have some value add service and loss control or whatever. I know more about this craft than you do. And that's never going to be something I lose out again. And I'm not saying that letters after your name means you're better or more successful than anybody. But when you apply that knowledge in the field, you're way more effective at the practice

of risk management and insurance, which at the end of the day, that's a big part of it. You can be a smooth talking sales and marketing monster and close more business than you'd ever dreamed of. But at the end of the day, if you're not a wonk about the nuts and bolts, I hope somebody is coming behind you to clean that up because you're going to leave a wrecking ball of trash behind you. So I know that's, that's a lengthy answer. Sorry. Chapter 12 is basically dealing with people process and production challenges. It's like, okay, cool. We've got all these great things. Now, what are we going to do about it? When you're putting this into practice, where are you going to find the roadblocks? And there there's a total of nine little points

inside there. Three for people, three for production and three for, um, process. It's like, if this falls apart, how is it likely to fall apart? What is it lacking? What is it missing? It's like, okay, great. You made it to chapter 12. Good job. Way to go. Um, you're trying to implement this stuff. What are you going to face when you try to implement? What is that going to look like? More than likely, if it falls apart apart it's probably going to fall in one of these three areas okay well what do you do about it to overcome the suck that you encounter when you try to better yourself yeah yeah i uh i i liked chapter 12 was i thought was very tactical and there was a lot of really good takeaways um a lot of shit to underline um I did like to, the thing I liked about to was, and I actually

have never done this in front of an insurance audience actually did it for the University of Albany MBA program asked me to come speak to them. And I was like, I had no idea what they wanted. And so I was trying to think of stuff that, that was just on my mind and what came to me and I'm, I want to try to work this into some, some insurance audiences in the future, possibly we'll see, was the idea that like, we don't talk a lot about the emotional side of being a leader, a manager, an entrepreneur, a business owner. If you're a producer, you're kind of a mini business owner to a certain extent, you know what I mean? That all the stuff that comes out of that. We don't talk about the emotional side very often. And yeah, we say things like,

you know, be disciplined, be tough or whatever. But like, we don't talk about the fact that at 9pm, when your body starts to de-stress, you start seeking out drugs, alcohol. You start seeking out vices. You start seeking it. You know, you stay up. You put shitty television on. You stay up too late. You start doing things that you shouldn't be doing.

You start finding fixes because it's stressful. You know, all day is stressful. You're making decisions. You're making people are looking to you. You know, your team members, something happens and three heads turn and look at you like, what's the answer boss. And you, you know, you're like, no, you know what I mean? I don't know what the answer is. And that, that tension and that, and that, and even when things are going well, you have

a sense of tension because you still are the one steering the ship. And, um, you know, we don't talk about that stuff a lot. And I thought in chapter two, you did a really good job of calling that out and, you know, use the term toxic headspace. I was scrolling through here trying to find it's on page 14. And, and, and, and I think that it's, it's, this is the kind of thing that I hope, as an industry, we start to have more conversations around, you know, we mask, we mask a lot of, uh, the emotional side of our business, the emotional side of leadership and running an agency with, with, with nerdy insurance shit, you know, we nerd out on stuff. And I think that's, that it's important. That stuff is important. Don't get me wrong, but it's also a mask for, for what we're dealing with all the time.

And, you know, people give, people give, you know, people give agency ownership because they go golfing on Fridays and stuff. And it's like, look, I, I, I was that guy when I was younger and didn't understand giving, you know, 55, 65 year old agency ownership for going golfing on Fridays. I understand now you got to get away from it. It's a lot of it. Isn't just, it isn't just that you want to experience life or take a break. It's that,

man, if you, if you have your nose in this shit every day, all day, and you never detach, you will go crazy. You will make bad decisions. You will not put yourself in a position to win because this is really stressful work. Like not only are you running a business, not only do you have a sales team, not only do you have all these carriers and vendors, but like the decisions that you make for your customers could make or break their lives. And there's a responsibility there that I think we kind of laugh at and, you know, maybe, maybe dismiss slightly, but we all feel it. If you really care about what you do in this business, you feel the pressure of the decisions you make every day for your customers. And I would just add into that. And you may have been getting there.

So forgive me if I step over that. No, you're good. Because you've said it before on the pod. So I know we're kind of in alignment on this. It's not the customers as much as it's the team. And we recently let two people go because their department doesn't exist anymore. So we only have seven on the team now. And it's like, we have seven families that are impacted by the decisions that I make. The strategy, the tactics, the choices that I install directly impact seven families and seven people's careers and livelihoods.

I could, if I handle myself in a toxic and an unhealthy way, I could permanently scar or damage seven people, seven humans that trust me with their professional aspirations and well-being. That's the part that i i never stopped thinking about every decision i make it's like is this the right move for our team not our company but our team yeah because at the end of the day if risk well burned and you know went up in smoke tomorrow will i miss it yes is it basically my third child? Yes. But really what RiskWell is, is nothing more than the humans that are here that create shared experience that together work to make impact on our stakeholders, which includes

you and this audience. Yeah. And I mean, we're super existential. I know a lot of people are like, man, I've got some thinking to do, but I appreciate the, uh, yeah, the, the, the receipt of chapter two, I feel like is, is really of emotions as a trailing indicator, rather than something early in the process, like observations create thoughts, which creates emotion. And I'm like, Oh, so emotion is like, much later on in the flow chart. It's like, wow, I have definitely been thinking about this all wrong. And the like the way that emotions enter into the whole cycle of of your headspace and i've never done that before it was like wait a second a lot of people

probably haven't ever been in with a professional therapist a professional counselor before best thing i ever did for my life was uh when my ex-wife first kicked me out of the house, I called a woman who's a therapist. She's a counselor. I've been seeing her probably like every couple months for a few years, but just check-ins, right? Once a quarter check-in. And, you know, when it first happened, when everything first went down back in December of 2021, I called her and went in and I've been going every other week to see her since then. And it's the best thing I've ever done for my life. Like I have, I'm, I feel like I'm more open. I'm more aware of my own mental state. I'm

more, uh, I'm able to reflect on things I said and did in a more positive way and then affect change. And I've been better at discipline and habits. And it's just because, you know, another really solid tool for this is morning pages. I don't know if anyone does morning pages, but morning pages are like, morning pages, I don't do them consistently enough. I wish I did them more consistently, but when I am consistently on morning pages, I feel like I am as grounded as, uh, as,

as I can be when I'm consistently doing morning pages, but long story short, it is, it is absolutely incredible. Um, for all of you listening at home, the book is leaving captivity, your blueprint for building and scaling a successful insurance agency by James Jenkins, CPC, you CIC CRM, print for building and scaling a successful insurance agency by james jenkins cpcu cic crm whatever the fuck that means and just means he's smart i guess and um guys you can get the book i'm assuming amazon what uh by the time this goes out i'm sure it'll be there but like all the places or where should they go to get it yeah yeah if Yeah. If you want the, if you want a personalized copy, I'm happy to sign it and put a little,

if you know me and you're like, Hey, I want to sign copy, go to my website. It's available for purchase directly at jamesjenkins.com. By the time you listen to this, if you want to do it through Amazon, that's totally fine. It's whatever your cup of tea is. Awesome. Because for whatever reason, God decided to give me a voice. It's somewhat easy to listen to. I've heard a few times um a lot of people said i'm not buying the paper version but

i'll definitely you know you can have it as a bent type story um well i have a audio book that i recorded the entirety on there just like a lot of us have done in the industry um there's a lot of additional content kind of like david goggins where he's like pausing and reflecting on his own book and adding additional commentary in real time yeah i'm guilty i did quite a bit of that with the audiobook but that will be available on audible and wherever else you want your audiobooks um that's really it man i uh anybody who's ever written a book knows there's not much money in this so um i'm not going to get rich at all, no matter how many copies it sells. But I will say every chapter is a keynote.

And I'm in the middle of building out 13 keynotes and basically hand people a menu and say, what do you want your audience to hear about? Here you go. Yeah. I basically just make shit up when I get there. I hope they don't want me to use slides because if they use slides and I have to stick to them, but most of the time I'm just like, I just show up and start talking. That's, that's my, that's my way.

The good people in Omaha are going to get to hear you and I back to back again, just like they did in South Carolina. And it's like, I don't know if there's two speakers that have different styles more than me and Hanley we're both masters of our craft in different ways but from a speaking style could not be more different it was hilarious yeah I'm stomping around the room screaming into the fucking thing cursing at people cracking jokes and you're up at the lectern walking them through very steady very well thought out half the time i don't even know the next word that's going to come out of my mouth hole but um

dude you're also a experienced professional and that was literally one of my very first times ever being a paid speaker in a room so i practiced the crap out of that thing i'm a little embarrassed to admit how much time went into that no that's that's what you're supposed to do. I, you know, I have, look, we all have to find our thing. We all have to do it. We all have to go through it. Like I, I mean, and I, and I don't mean this in any negative way. I had a canned presentation that I did this pretty much the same way with the same moments. I knew what jokes were in a head. I knew what time they were. I didn't have to look at a watch or I knew right, bam, bam, bam. And I could be within a few minutes and for five or six years, that's exactly the way that I did it. And I, and I loved it. And that was great. I would say that now, um, for better or for worse, I've reached a point where for me to deliver max value to the

audience, I need to be able to come more off the cuff. And I like to read the audience. The hard part about that is like, sometimes you miss, right? So there's always a bit of a tight rope walk when you are less polished in terms of your presentation, because you could miss, right? The audience could be off. The audience could be, you know, and, and, you know, we could do a whole episode on how to warm up an audience. And depending on where you go, how you start and what you do, like, like if you're the first speaker after lunch, curse at them as quickly as you possibly can, or make a sex joke, one or the other. And the reason is they're all sleepy, fat and full of food. And, and none of them are like really listening to you. And if you can hit them with a good sex joke or a curse word, um, you'll what,

what you'll see is heads literally snap up. Like, did he really just say that? And I'm, and I will literally say, now I got you sons of bitches. Now let's go. Right. Like, but you know, it takes, dude, I've done, that was like, that was like, I don't want to call it a keynote presentation or whatever. I've done this easily. I lost count at 347 presentations. So like I'm pushing 400 presentations at this point in my career. So it's a completely different thing and it doesn't mean right or wrong. And yours was probably better. I just, for me to add value and for me to have fun with it and to be different, right? I mean, that's the way I go about it.

But you pick up all these little things. You'll pick up different things as you go. More times you do it. It's like anything else. But you'll start to twist the joke a little differently than, you do it. It's like, it's like anything else, but you'll, you'll start to twist joke a little differently than how you practiced it. You'll start to, um, you know, uh, give a little more inflection to a certain word or topic, or, you know, sometimes, you know, I, I had this one slide that was in for a while, um, that like, I realized I needed a break.

And, uh, so I put this big ass bear face and anyone who's watched some of my presentations, you'll get about halfway through and there's this bad-ass bear face, and anyone who's watched some of my presentations, you'll get about halfway through, and there's this badass bear face, and I will literally just turn to the screen, and I'll just look at it, and everyone will be looking at it, and no one will be saying shit because they don't know what,

they're waiting for a story, and I'll just look at it and go, there's no story to this slide. That's just a badass bear face, and everyone will kind of chuckle, and I'll go, and I make this joke how I paid like $3 for it or whatever whatever and all I'm doing in that moment like it it seems like it is I'm taking a break I realized that I needed a break in the presentation so I have this whole

little shtick that I do that takes about two and a half to three minutes if I execute it properly that just allows me to like come down for a second and gather myself before I ramp back up again. That was just from doing it a whole bunch and figuring it out. You can't practice that. Like that's, you know, just getting out there and being in front of the audience. That's how you figure that shit out. So you'll get there, dude. I mean, your, your meticulous nature will allow you to pick up on those things. And as long as you listen to the audience while you're doing your presentation, you'll pick up on those things. You'll make adjustments. And a year from now, you'll, you'll, you'll be even snappier.

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