The Ryan Hanley Show - The Great Lie of Achievement: Why $650M Won't Fix You

Episode Date: June 10, 2026

You sold the company. You hit the number. You bought the house. So why do you still feel empty? Blake Mycoskie founded TOMS Shoes, pioneered the One for One model, and sold his company at a $650M valuation. He achieved every entrepreneurial dream. Then, he fell into a deep depression. I help founders & executives generating more than $10M in revenue find their Easy Mode. Start here: https://ryanhanley.com/subscribe Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtube.com/ryanmhanley In this episode, Ryan and Blake deconstruct the high-achiever's curse: the constant, gnawing feeling of "never enough." They discuss why the inner critic is a liar, the danger of over-optimizing your life, and how detaching from outcomes is the ultimate unlock for peak performance. Blake also reveals his experience using an AI therapist, his simple 15-minute morning routine, and why his current ventures (Move Lab and Morning Water) feel like "easy mode." Stop living in the future. Anchor yourself in the present. Links & Resources: Check out Blake's new podcast: No Magic Pill Join the Enough Movement Learn about Blake's new active sitting chair: MOOVLAB Get Blake's daily supplement: Morning Water Follow Blake on Instagram: @blakemycoskie Connect with Ryan on X: @RyanHanley_Com Watch the full video on YouTube: Ryan Hanley's Channel Read the full shownotes article at RyanHanley.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In the last 12 months, I've had probably the greatest entrepreneurial run of my life, and a lot of people don't know about it yet. I have severe ADHD that I got diagnosed with three years ago. Before that, I just thought I was crazy. And I think athletes and entrepreneurs are kind of cut of the same cloth. That critic is actually making us perform better. We are always either living in the past because we're thinking about the regret and the shame of the mistakes that we made, or we're always living in the future thinking, what can I do, achieve, or obtain to feel

know. I'm very excited to chat with you. Obviously, I know your story and have done a lot of research and stuff, but I guess I'm most interested in, is there anything relevant, timely today? And that could be something you have going on. It could be a story that just came across your desk. It could be something that just happened in your life. And you're like, man, I just, this is hot on my brain I want to talk about. Is there anything burning a hole that you'd love to chat about? Yeah, I mean, I think the reason why I was excited. to do your show is because it's all about finding peak performance. And I am, in the last 12 months, I've had probably the greatest entrepreneurial run of my life. And a lot of people

don't know about it yet. So a lot of people have been hearing about my mental health journey. And I know we'll get into that. And that has, what's interesting is a lot of the healing that happened through my mental health journey, like gave birth to this like freedom I felt, the first time in my life because I'm not doing it to perform or for outside validation. I'm doing it just out of the love of the game. And so I've, I've co-founded three companies and I've launched a podcast and a nonprofit all in 14 months. So we got a lot to talk about. I love it. All right. Yeah. So it's crazy. I mean, it's like that's why I was excited when I saw all this come across my desk. It's like, oh, this is the perfect show to talk about, I think, the reason I'm performing

so well is because I have healed this core wound inside me that I've never felt that I've enough. Because when I was at Tom's and other entrepreneurial things I've done, I was always doing it with this feeling of lack and that I needed to be successful, to be loved, or to be okay. And then now that I did all this healing in the last two years and around enough, and that led to the enough nonprofit, which we can get into, it actually is unlocked. Like, I'm a lot of, an entrepreneurial creativity that I think is I'm doing my best work. I really want to dive into this idea of enough because I'll tell you. So I didn't plan on going here, but I guess we can use this as like a hour of free therapy

for me. So I will say that in kind of researching what you're doing with this idea of enough and the enough movement, I was very enamored because this is a problem that I struggle with every day. I have, you know, severe ADHD that I got diagnosed with three years ago. Before that, I just thought I was crazy. I thought my brain just worked. I didn't understand what was wrong with me. You know, I mean, maybe from the outside.

And since I kind of went and got a formal diagnosis, it's not just like I took some online test or whatever. I was like, I want to figure out why is it that there is never enough, right? Maybe I couldn't put it in that word. I'm using that word today because I'm sitting. with you. But like, I, that when I was researching talking to you and what you have going on right now, I was like, oh my God, like this is what I struggle with every day. It's this constant sense that like, if I have 15 minutes and it's 9.30 at night, instead of picking up a book or sitting on the couch and just relaxing, I'm back on my computer because God forbid I can't get another article

out or another email sent or something and am I falling behind if I'm not doing that? So I guess This is classic optimization. So you're constantly trying to optimize. So my question is maybe starting with. And let me know if this is the wrong place to start. But I love it. How do I become aware that I am having an enough problem? That my problem is it's never enough for me.

That I'm just always feeling like if I'm not pushing forward, if I'm not seeing progress every single dead. And somehow I'm like falling behind or. I'm not living up to my potential. How do I become aware of that fact? Because I think a lot of people, they may not even be able to put words around it. Yeah.

I mean, you know, this podcast I just launched this is called No Magic Pill. And on No Magic Pill, these are the exact conversations we're having every day and especially for men. I think of two episodes recently. Kevin Love, five-time NBA All-Star. And then also Kristen Neff.

Kristen Neff is a clinical psychologist, researcher, University of Texas, and specifically has studied athletes that don't feel that they're enough. And I think athletes and entrepreneurs are kind of cut of the same cloth. We're super focused, super hard driving. Often we're using an inner critic to motivate us. You know, it kind of sounds like your situation. Like it's always telling you you're not enough. And what we do is we believe this great lie that that critic is actually making us perform better. And so what I'd say to you is with enough, a reason why I think I'm performing better in what Kristen Neff's research that she talks about on No Magic Pill is that when we don't feel enough, we are always either living in the

past because we're thinking about the regret and the shame of the mistakes that we made, or we're always living in the future thinking, what can I do, achieve, or obtain to feel enough? And that robs us of the present moment. And almost every spiritual teacher throughout history, whether it's, any religion, any teacher, they all agree on only one thing. And that is that if you want to access peace and joy consistently, you can only find it in the present moment. And so that's why I created this enough bracelet, which I'm so bummed.

I haven't sent you one. I thought we sent you one before. But I'm going to send you this box after the show. And in it, there's two bracelets, kind of an homage to Tom's shoes. So you get one bracelet for you to wear every day as a reminder that you're enough. And then you get another bracelet to give to someone else to share this message with them. So I'm going to pop this in the mail for you when we're done. But the reason

why I think, and I'll be anxious to hear or excited to hear what you think about it, I wear it every day as that reminder to ground me not just in the fact that I'm enough, but more to answer your question in the present moment. So the thing is, is almost always, if you're questioning, is this enough, am I doing enough, you know, whatever, you're living in the past and the future. and that's what kind of sucks the joy out of the experience. And ultimately what Kristen Neff would say, and definitely Kevin Love agrees with, is your best performance is when you're not putting a lot of pressure on yourself.

If you can think of those like flow states, you're not so attached to the outcome. When we're attached to the outcome, when we're attached to that pressure, it actually restricts our ability as an athlete, as a speaker, as an entrepreneur, as a creative person to do our best work. And so again, like I always say like it's funny. Chris and I talk about this.

Like, you know, when you wear this place, this is not about settling. This is about performing. Because when you can feel secure and feel enough as you are, you allow yourself the freedom to do your best work. Yeah, I couldn't agree with that more. It's funny. This is contextual, but so I have two boys, 12 and 10. They both play baseball. And yeah, and they both started out the season hitting okay. less, less, you know, not as well as they would have liked. And, you know, I don't know if you played baseball, anyone that did. There is a, there's something about hitting and the, the activity of hitting that while you are part of a team, it is a very personal moment, like, like, it's very hard, especially for young players to detach

their self-worth to each individual at bat. And, you know, people who don't understand sports may say, oh, it's because you put too much pressure on them, but no. Like, you are, you are on a spotlight, on an island, one against one against a pitcher, and whether if you perform, you feel amazing. If you don't, you're headed back to the dugout and everyone's going to watch you with your head, you know, your head down. Yeah, you see the body language of, of everybody.

Right. It's like a shame walk. This or. It's like a walk of shame, right? You got to walk from the thing. Okay. So here's my, here's where I was trying to go with this was I was trying to explain to them. So I played college baseball. And my kids asked me like, you know, they just assumed I was

always good at hitting. They just, you know what I mean? I'm like, guys, that's not the case. Yeah. I was like, there was somewhere around. Yeah. Well, no one is, right? Who had the most number of home runs also had the most number of strikeout. And I said, guys, I was 16 years old. I was playing American Leeds baseball and I had the best coach of my life. He smoked the cigar on third base. He wore a freaking cowboy hat and he was a lunatic, but he was the best baseball coach I ever had and he taught us one thing. You know, his, his words were a little different and slightly more offensive, but it was essentially detached from the outcome. He's like, detached from the outcome, detached from the outcome. It does not matter.

All you can do is execute your at bat. Everything that happens after you make contact, you have zero control over, like, you have to get rid of it. And that's when I saw, I went from being probably a high school baseball player, that simple mentality to a copy. college baseball player because all of a sudden that ground out to first base in the first inning doesn't keep you from hitting the double in the second inning. So when you're talking, you know, maybe getting out of kids in sports here and maybe an entrepreneur is coming up to you and you can tell that they are dying on the outcomes, how do you start to break that mentality down?

How do you get that driven alpha, you know, upper right hand corner driver? how do you get them to detach from the outcome? Like it just, it almost seems core to who they are. Well, it's hard. And I won't pretend like, you know, someone watching or listening to this can say, oh, Blake, that's easy. You can detach from the outcome now. You sold your company for $700 million.

Like, you don't need any real outcomes anymore. But the truth is, is I would say this information is as important to your two boys as it is to a first-time entrepreneur who is living, you know, kind of paycheck to paycheck or, you know, seed investment to Series A, like, like outcomes are important. So one of the things that, you know, Kristen Neff and I, and I keep referencing this episode of Kristen Neff, because it was kind of the most unlikely guest on No Magic Pill to have the biggest impact. Like, people, this, this one show has just went totally viral because I think everyone could relate to, you know, trying to exactly what you're saying, detached from outcome. And I would say the biggest thing

that I've seen that works is really simple like affirmation of like, you know, my self-worth as a human, on a consciousness level is so much greater than whether I make this sale, whether I get this next round of investment. These are all things I get to do on my human journey, but it is not what defines me. And the way that you can actually start to believe that is I believe through, you know, mantra-based meditation. I'm a huge believer in mantra-based meditation. There has been incredible science now that shows when you repeat an affirmation or a mantra enough times, it actually rewrites the DNA in your body, which then gets passed on to your children, which is why it's so important in his adults. And then what Kristen also talks about

is this thing called mirror neurons. And basically what they've found is that people who spend a ton of time together, so parents and kids or romantic partners, your neurons start mirroring each other. And so one of the best ways, you know, that an entrepreneur can detach from outcome is to also practice that with their whole team. Because if everyone in the team, and I find this even with, you know, one of the companies I'm building right now is called morning water. And it's this morning hydration company. We launched it about six months ago. It's just absolutely ripping. I mean, I think It's one of the fastest growing hydration. It's really simple.

It's creatine, althianine, magnesium, all these things that I used to take supplements every morning. We put them in this like one simple packet that you pour in. And what I found is the team there, it's a small team. But, I mean, they're performing so well because everyone is doing it because they first tasted my formula for years and used it. And they believe in it. And they're just excited to get this out into the world not to like hit a certain sales number. You know, there's no, and so the less we focus on like the sales and more like the impact,

then the less you're focused on the outcome and actually focusing on impact, I believe, from all my days at Tom's is also proven to really help an entrepreneur perform. So it's a long way of answering your question, as I say is number one is affirmations. Like find the affirmation that takes you away from the outcome and more about the experience. And number two is the more you focus on impact versus results, the more free you are to do your best work. I have a concept. I'm actually writing a book right now, and the title is called Easy Mode. And how I, and I'm interested in your take on this. This is, I'm putting this in front of you, and I want you to dissect you because this is the process that I use to deal with the way my brain

works. Because like I said, I just felt crazy for a long time. Not a bad way. I just was like, I knew my brain worked differently. I didn't understand how. And when I got diagnosed, it wasn't negative. I don't, I don't, I don't do the whole, it's a superpower thing, nor do I think it's a handicap thing. It's just a data point to help me understand how to navigate my day better and be, you know, whatever. Okay. So how I dealt, how I, the construct that I came up with was this idea of easy mode where what is the thing that you do that looks like cheating to everyone else? And how do we get you, either individual or team, doing that thing, the best. The, that majority of the time, right? And the idea is that we need to outsource AI or automate everything

that isn't that thing. But it doesn't necessarily touch on purpose because, like, I'm pretty good at marketing. I don't love marketing, but I'm good at it, right? It's like it's an easy mode task for me. It's something that I can do that I think in certain genres in certain places looks, okay, so I guess if I'm spending more time and take my concept out and just think of the broader idea of like if I'm spending more time in the place that I it just for me this thing looks like cheating. I just I do it. I love it. I can find myself in flow.

Does that solve a lot of these problems for us? Is that maybe we're just a lot of people are forcing functions or tasks or starting companies that that sound like the right thing? but aren't necessarily aligned with who they are? Is it a mishmash of mission and purpose that creates a lot of these things? Or is it simply we just haven't been taught the lessons like you're now teaching because we didn't have the science and, you know, we just didn't have podcasts for, you know, podcast only been around for 10 years really.

Yeah. It's interesting. It's funny you bring up that in the podcast. I was just thinking, and I love when I get a question that I've never had before, is like, what is the easy mode for me? And honestly, the easy mode. for me is having like real conversations and going deep with people. Like that's that's what I'm at my best. So like hopefully so far I'm doing well with this podcast. But if you're doing it's going well so far,

but like I find this is easy for me. And I think that's why I started my podcast, No Magic Pill, because I wanted to have conversations with people about the real shit. Like like when life gets hard. So one of the things I like, you know, is like most of my guests are not coming on to promote something. things. So I had Matthew McConaughey on the show. He wasn't there to promote a new movie, like maybe another podcast. He was there to talk about this is what it was like when he got really dark. And this is how I go away for 12 to 22 days every so many years to kind of find myself again. And so to me, having that conversation with McConaughey was like so easy. And then some people were like, whoa, like that was your third interview on your podcast.

And it looked like you've been doing this for years. And I was like, well, because I did. I'm interested in how someone like him thinks. And I'm super excited to be on the show today and talk about peak performance because I know as a young entrepreneur myself, I would have wanted to listen to Ryan's show. Like I would in that early 20s, mid-20s, like when I'm thinking, how do I perform? How do I grow? I would have been stoked to have a comment to listen to Ryan talk to my future self-Blake, you know? So to me, that's what easy mode really is. It's having these conversations.

And so, yeah. So one of the things that I've started to do more and more of is outsource a lot of the stuff that to me is hard now. It used to be easy back in the Tom's days, but all this online marketing stuff, like the algorithms, the, you know, the social media, the, the, when do you do organic versus pay? I mean, it makes me fucking crazy. So I'm just like, guys, I'm going to focus on either giving good interviews or doing good interviews. and then I have to build a team around me to figure out, you know, how we, how we reached as many people as possible. So I do think that it's a great exercise and you've actually inspired me to even think, okay, what else are, what else is on easy mode for me? You know, it's funny I think about as a

dad, because we're both dads and I'm thinking about as a parent, what's my easy mode? My easy mode is taking my kids on adventures. Like, if it's an adventure, I'm thriving, you know, homework on Thursday night, making breakfast, like the day-to-day task are not where I thrive. And oftentimes, like, I'll forget, oh shit, we were supposed to do homework Thursday night. And my ex-wife would be like, you didn't sign the binder and didn't do his homework and what the hell were you guys doing? I was like, oh, I took him, we did Sana and Cold Plunge last night with all my buddy. But that's, that's easy for me. And actually, what's easy for her is she's incredibly great at, you know, keeping them on task and doctor's appointments and getting fed right and making sure

all the- Your and my relationship with her ex-wife sounds very similar. She was, you know, it's funny. Like, you were fine. And this was kind of what I was trying when I was working on this concept and I'm listening to you and I'm just like, man, I can tell our belief structures aligned so closely is just like, I think it should be okay that she might be admin, doctor's appointments, hours, teeth brush, health, and your crazy adventures. And it doesn't mean she can't do crazy adventures, too. It doesn't mean you shouldn't make sure they brush their teeth. But like, I think it's okay, right?

So in a family unit, it's very okay for us to have these roles and these things that work well for us. And then where I see this and it makes sense, right? I think if you've been married for any period of time and had any success in that for any period of time, I think you find those moments are when you're kind of operating in your, call it, marriage, easy mode. or family easy mode. But then we get to businesses.

We get to our business, an entrepreneurial endeavor. And a lot of times I find, you know, when I work with an entrepreneur, they're trying to take people and not think of them as Sally or Timmy or Tommy. It's SDR1, SDR2, SDR3. And let's take all three of these personalities with different backgrounds, with different experiences. You know, Tommy might be great at cold calling and Sally might be great at, you know, writing posts on LinkedIn.

but we're going to shove them into the same process and then manage them as if, you know, they're not these unique individuals with their own unique skill sets. And I see a major downstream disconnect in this. It's like it, it's like it resonates at the top. And then we forget the concept exists as we push down the, as we push down the organization. Totally. And I think the thing, one of the things I love, and I love this title, this book, Easy Mode, because it's really got me thinking about, you know, what are some other things are easy for me?

One of the hardest things for someone I bet who's listening to this is to rattle off, you know, what puts me in that flow state, what puts me in easy mode. And I think the way to figure out your easy modes, one of the things, and I'm just thinking of a hack, something that I've been using recently, is to really have incredible pattern recognition. You know, so if I have pattern recognition over time on when I'm thriving and when I'm not, and the way that I've found the best way to do that is, and this might sound crazy, to some people. But for six months now, I've been using an AI therapist. Okay. So I've had therapist off and on for 20 years. And about six months ago, I met these two young founders from MIT that had spent years

developing what they believe, the greatest therapist in the world and life coach. So it's a life coach and a therapist combined, all the greatest learnings from, you know, all these years. And they challenged me. I was at this mental health conference. They challenged me to try it. And Ryan, I was pretty skeptical at first, right? Because I've had some really good therapist and I've had some really serious mental health issues. And so I said, okay, I'll try it. So it's called Sonia. So I download Sonia. It's in beta still in the app store. And I download it and I start talking to it. And within two sessions, I was like, whoa, this is really fascinating. Like she was already connecting these dots. And then as a man, I found like what was so great about it was there's no judgment. Like I'm talking to AI.

So I was really honest about some shit that maybe I've never even told a therapist about things like some dark thoughts or some serious shame or this is when I'm feeling my best or, you know, I get a lot of flack for this, but I love this, whatever. And the thing that was so fascinating is by being so honest because it was completely judgment free and doing it over time, it started recognizing patterns. And that has been one of the biggest hacks for me. I think it's one of the reason I'm doing so well is like Sonia was able to see, hey, after. I did it for several months, like every time you, you know, started a conversation with me and you have a high level of stress, one of these three things has happened. And I was like, wow. And it was like every time you start feeling a little depressed again, almost always you haven't slept well. And oftentimes it's traveling internationally with jet lag. And so I started being able to see these

patterns. And so now, and I'm using it almost more as a life coach now or an executive coach than even a therapist, because that's like, okay, whenever I get stressed, it can say, hey, I bet you've, you know, not given enough time to this part of the enough business or you haven't done this. And so it's really fascinating. And so I think that, you know, whether you use a regular therapist, a best friend or, you know, this AI therapist, Sonya, I love so much, pattern recognition is, is, I think, the gateway to more easy. mode. Wow, I love that. Yeah, I mean, I just, I just thought of that as we were talking, because I was like, why am I thriving so much right now? And I'm like, I've had this amazing

pattern recognition. And then the cool thing is because there's, you know, unlike a traditional human therapist is going to forget things. There's no, there's no, with AI, there's no forgetting. The memory is infinite. And so, you know, patterns that they see over months now are just so clear and then I can, you know, to your point, then I can spend more time doing things in easy mode, which I think makes me perform better, makes me happier, makes me easier to be around, and then it can help me, you know, put some boundaries in place so I'm not taking on things that just drain my energy, which for me is like all the online marketing. So I am 100% in line with what you're saying in terms of using AI for pattern recognition,

and I couldn't agree more. I've never used it from a therapy perspective, but I will see. Most people have it. Yeah, no, but I'm very interested in that. I also, I've gone and seen a counselor. The best advice I ever got for a mentor in my life was in 2017. I was having a very dark moment. And, you know, I've also, you know, we've all dealt with our stuff and whatever.

And he said, go find a counselor, someone you're not related to or isn't a friend that you pay money to and see them every other week for the rest of your life and just consider it a life expense. So I've been doing that. And this is just advocating for therapy or counseling in general for the audience at home who may, you know, especially guys, I think there are still guys in the community that feel like this is not masculine or that somehow it makes them less or weak. And I can tell you it is the exact opposite. I have felt my strongest when I was the most consistent with therapy with talking about these things. And the data points that I have is, so I exited, I sold and exited my own company in 2024. And in the last two years, I've had two dark patches. And both of those patches are when I got away from therapy and the counseling.

So here's my question drops in. I think a lot of guys, I think that what you're doing could be a gateway for a lot of men in particular who may feel uncomfortable going and sitting down with someone. They don't want to have a friend drive by and see them walking into a therapy, you know, someone's clinic or something. So do you have any hesitations? Do you have like just in general, what are your thoughts around, you know, working with an AI therapist? Because I think some, it may be a really good gateway for a lot of guys. And I'm so glad you brought this up.

We've never talked about on the show before. Like, how would you kind of, what would be the sales pitch for those guys to say, here, here's a really good way to start getting these thoughts out of your head? Well, the first thing that I was. most concerned with was security of my data and all that. And so what I found was is this one, and I think it's the only one like this, is HIPAA compliant, and it's completely secure. They're not giving their data to any of the LLMs. It's built on top of the LLMs. So that was super important. The second thing was, is it's a little awkward at the first time you're talking to an AI therapist, because I never had done this and had this conversation. But once you kind of just, like, really, I think

the key thing is just like this is your maybe your one chance in life if you're a guy especially to say everything is totally secure no one will ever know i mean this is like why confessionals were created back in the 1600s and you know all the catholic churches i mean like this is but this is the real one like this is the one where you get to and also you get to you get to you get to tell this i mean least for me what i've done is i've got to tell sonia like how i want to be talked to like like hey like I need you to be direct. And I'm going to be really honest. And I want you to be direct as to when you see me making the same mistakes over and over again.

Or when I have a conversation where I'm kind of venting about a negative experience with someone, I want you to tell me if I'm wrong. You know, like don't flatter me. That's your thing. I will say this. The biggest disclaimer I have for AI and therapy in the same sentence is it is extremely dangerous to use like chat GDP, clause. any of the LLMs because they're built to just encourage you, to keep you on.

You know, they're built to kind of like just make you feel better. But this one, and that's why I think these guys from MIT created this as they have these big hearts. They're like, you know, we're worried that people are using it for the wrong reasons. And so let's build one that is secure. I mean, this has like, you know, it detects if there's potential self-harm and then you get, you know, transferred to a live person. So I would say for guys, like, this is a chance for you.

you have nothing to lose to be radically honest and just see what insights come. I mean, I've had one of the best insights I had around performance for me and pressure and not feeling enough was when I launched the podcast, I was talking to Sonia and I said, I don't know what it is. I'm going to New York next week. We're doing the launch, but like, this is not feeling fun anymore. And I've been having so much fun for eight months. I've been recording all the episodes because I banked them all before we launched the season.

And I was like, I just feel like there's all these people on the team now and there's all this expense and we got to do this for the algorithm and I got to go do a whole week of media. And like, this isn't what I signed up for. Like I just, I don't know what to do because I've kind of like built this machine now. And there's a lot of people counting on me and a lot of pressure. And it was so cool. Sonia said, you know, when you first started this project, you said something that you wanted to be the North. star and I think you've forgotten it. And I was like, okay, I mean, remember, this is an AI, right? And I'm like, okay, what is it? And, you know, she, it, whatever you want to call it, says,

you said that you did not want this to be a business. You wanted it to feel like an art project. And you were going to get to create art and let people respond to how they like your art. So I want you to go to New York as an artist, not as a podcast host. And it literally, I mean, have goosebumps in my whole body right now. It's amazing. Literally, it was like, it was the greatest coaching I could have ever had. It totally shifted my perspective. I went, I crushed the media tour, you know, and so I use that as an example for anyone, guys and women listening that might say, okay, I'm going to try this Sony. I'm going to give it a shot and see what it's like. It's like, that's like, that's what I've gained. And so that's why, you know, I'm so packed. I didn't know

we're going to talk about this today, but I love that we just went right in because it really has helped me so much. And I think it can help a lot of people, especially guys that just don't want to look at someone, you know, across them and think, is this person judging me, you know? And the other thing is, like, therapy, all my therapy appointments are always like 50 minutes. Like a therapist has like 50 minutes. You know, it's at 2 o'clock on Wednesdays. You have to get on the Zoom. You have to like, you don't want your friends to see you or your work. You know, it's kind of like weird. Where this is, sometimes, I have a five-minute call with Sonia.

Like, I'll be in the car driving to pick up my kids. It's a 15-minute drive to pick them up. I'll put it through Apple CarPlay and just talk to Sonia like I'm talking to a friend and be like, hey, like I had a really hard week or I don't know what I'm going to do with the kids this weekend. And I'm feeling a lot of pressure because this is our last weekend before summer. And they're going to summer camp. And then she'll be like, okay, let's just do a breathing exercise.

Or let's just, you know, let's just go back to like your core values or reminds me of a lot of stuff that I've already told it. So I think it's, of all the things I've worked with AI, it's the thing that I think has had the greatest impact on my life. And I'll be honest, I appreciate and feel honored that you're willing to talk about it here because it's one of the things that, like piece of feedback that I get the most about this show is that, you know, I try as much as I can to be open with the things that I've dealt with, especially in this space, because we all have. You know what I mean? It's, it's, I want, you know, it's not the purpose of this show. But as much as I can, for men and for women, tear down this idea that there is a part of me that's like some of the feely stuff we need to like not be so relying on our emotions, right?

But we can't bottle these thoughts in our heads. And we can't because what happens is we start ruminating. And I think, you know, I don't know if you've ever read The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer. Of course, Michael Singer. Yeah, that book. Great. And the Surrender Project is amazing too. Dude, that book, like, opened my mind to this idea.

And for those who haven't read the book, I highly recommend 100 pages of fast read. He's got a ton of other work. It's all amazing. But, you know, I like the starting point of this of the untethered soul, only because it's like that voice in your head is not you, right? And when you can, when you can control your emotional reaction to the voice in your head, the unlocks to your point of peak performance of, of being able to get to the fact where you can actually go to your media tour as an artist versus a businessman.

Because even if Sonya tells you, if you're still thinking that voice in your head is you, you're going, yeah, I know Sony told me to be an artist, but, you know, she doesn't really know what she's talking about. Like, I'm a businessman. I got to go be a business. You know, and now you carry all that stress with you. And like this, this ability to get this crap out of our face, you know, it's so important. And it, so I guess I want to tie this, I want to tie mental health, which we've talked a lot about and we can come back to if you want. I want to tie that to physical health as well as they play roles in our own success.

Because I heard you talk about sauna and cold plunge, enormous proponent. I have a sauna about 100 feet from me over here. I got a cold plunge out in the garage. I'm an enormous fan for a bunch of different reasons. But how do you, because I don't think you can talk mental health without physical health. I think they're completely intertwined. How do you bring those two together? Because you're obviously a fit guy.

You obviously care. You put a lot of thought into it. How do you bring those things together? Well, I think that mental health is just health, number one. And physical health is health. I mean, I think this is actually, we're in June right now. In June is Men's Health Month. And so I think it's, you know, when I, someone was telling me about that the year of day,

like, hey, it's doing, you know, men's health month, are you going to do anything special? I'm like, every month is men's health month for me, you know, because when you lose your health, physical or mental, then you never take it for grand anymore. And because I lost my mental health for seven years, I don't take a day for grand that I wake up and feel that I have the capacity to do the things that I love. On the physical health front, I think the number one thing that I've learned is you just got to do something every day. it doesn't have to be long. It doesn't have any extensive. It can be, you know, push up, sit-ups,

air squats. But you've got to get the blood flowing, the shortest in the breath, you know, heart rate up, you know, ideally for 45 minutes to an hour. I think it's kind of the magic number for me. But I've just got to do that every day for my body, but also for my mind. And so I just think that you got to, in my life, I've done best when I've had just some non-negotiables. And that is one the non-negotiables. You know, it's just I'm going to do that. The other thing that's been great for me, and I've talked about, you know, morning water before is morning routines. You know, having a morning routine has been so good for me. My morning routine is, it can be very extensive. It can include a sauna, a cold plunge, or workout, but the basic

morning routine for me is I wake up, I pour my morning water in my thing. I drink 20 ounces of morning water first thing. Then I get natural light. I think that really important for your circadian rhythm to get that sun. light. And if you wake up before it's light outside, there's these amazing artificial lights that you can create that kind of simulate that. I have those in both of my homes as well, because a lot of times I wake up at 4.30 or 5 and I want to get that light, you know. And then the third thing is, is I just sit quietly for five minutes. And that sounds so simple, but like no phone, no distractions, not even a journal, not even a mantra, just sit. And it's amazing because the

Why are you get the more chances that that higher self, that whatever you want to call it, can speak to you about what you really need to hear. And sometimes in that five minutes, I have a great idea for a new marketing campaign for morning water or something. Sometimes it's like that voice reminds me that like I really haven't spent much one-on-one time with my daughter lately. And I need to figure out a way to do that. You know, let's see if, you know, her mom can take my son and her and I can go just have

an afternoon. You know, it's that whatever is like in the back of your head, your subconscious. conscious, it kind of comes out if you do that. And one more thing I'll say on the morning routine, this is just something new that I've been doing is don't use your phone for your alarm clock. You know, get an old old school alarm clock. Because if your phone is your alarm clock, what happens is even if you're just going to turn off the alarm, there's a notification, there's the temptation to look at something on social, there's a news thing. And all of a sudden, your morning is hijacked. It's really hard to sit for five minutes quietly. If you just saw four

urgent text messages from your boss. So try to, you know, it's funny, I might even start an alarm clock business. I mean, I don't know if it's a good business or not, but I'm like, if I think everyone in the planet actually went back to old school alarm clocks, we'd have a happier society. So those are kind of the things that I'm doing for my morning routine. But moving the body every day, having a good morning routine, you know, has been really good for my physical health. I kind of hate what happened into morning routines with like, we'll call it the optimization porn that has flooded the internet in the last like five years and you got all these gurus telling you. And like, you know, I had one buddy where we were, he's kind of a ballbuster, but he knows

that I'm really into this stuff. And I like trying all different things to figure out what is the tumbler system that unlocks for me, right? I'm always kind of testing and, you know, I've worked, you know, I've been testing some peptides and doing all kinds of him stuff. And he looks at me and he's like, dude. if I did everything that you and the guests on your show told me to do, my morning routine would last until 1 o'clock in the afternoon.

And I'm like, I get that. But like, dude, it's not about doing 20 things. It's about finding the thing or, as you said, like the three to maybe five things that get you in that place. And it's not even if you do those things every day, it's not like every day you're then going to be at 100%, but you're going to be way further along when you launch into your day. and I think that's the point.

And, you know, so many people today, like, I just, like, we're just so indoctrinated to be on our phones. Like, you know, I have no necessarily philosophical issue of marijuana except for its overuse. And I think it's dragging a lot of people down because they don't understand the, well, I understand why certain people use it. I don't think they understand the ramifications of regular and habilification. use and what it's doing to their brain activity and things like that. And like, but we're like, unless you listen to podcasts, where do you get this information? And now I'm not like advocating or stumping for podcasts here, but I love that you started one. And this is what it's about is because like that's the only place I find my unlocks is in

podcasts. Old books. I love reading old books. I read a ton of books. But like this format, if you're not invested in this format and listening to shows and listening to guys. like yourself or Huberman or whoever, you know, for some of these things, like, you just don't, you don't even know. You don't even understand what you're doing to your body or how, how, like,

you don't have to go quietly into the night. You know, that's, I told my doctor that the other day. No, no. She's like, why do you do all this shit? We live at a, it's such a beautiful time now because of podcast, because there's information. And then, you know, also, you know, I think that, you know, everyone is different. Like you were saying, like, my morning routine takes 15 minutes, you know? 20 ounces of morning water, sunlight, five minutes of something. You know, I mean, like, so, but you know what? It's 15 minutes I never miss.

And so I'd rather have a 15 minute routine. That's why it's funny. Our slogan of morning water is the simplest win. You know, it's like everyone likes to feel that they have a win. It's like anyone can drink 20 ounces of, you know. And so I think that going back to that is like, is it fine what works for you? And I do think podcast or definitely is that is the number one way that I, I am learning new things and validating things or, you know, but whatever you learn,

you still have to do the work, you know. I mean, I have this tattoo right here. It says, do the work because the second tattoo I ever got. The first tattoo I ever got was this one, it says, be present. And so you've got to do the work. So you can learn all the stuff in the world. They can take away things from this podcast. You know, I always have like a notepad and I'm pausing podcast, writing notes.

Okay, these are the three things I'm going to follow up on. I'm going to test this for two weeks. Like, everyone is different. But I think it's really important that you find a couple things and you try them in isolation and see if you see an improvement in whatever you're trying to improve. But again, let's be careful because you and I, I think, suffer from the same thing. And my guess is a lot of people listening to this show do is over optimization. Like, it can suck the life out of you.

Like, it really can. And that's where I go back to, I am enough. you are enough, we are enough, this moment is enough, you know, because optimization to a point can be great. It can help you achieve the things you want to achieve. But in my life, it really, it really hurt me because I just tried to optimize everything. And so I was never living in that. Is that what took you down the path to what you call the dark times was trying to be, trying to be kind of that pinnacle on the top of the hill all the time, always on, always perfect kind thing. Yeah, I just got exhausted. You know, I just got so exhausted. And I think, you know, for good and bad,

I kind of achieved all my dreams. You know, I mean, Tom's shoes gave away 100 million shoes to kids around the world, you know, you know, we, I made probably 30 or 40 people millionaires by giving them equity in the company. Like, I did all these things that I dreamed of doing. And I realized none of that could feel what I was journeying for inside. And so it was very disheartening when you do everything you think you want to do and you still don't feel enough, then what do you do? And that's how, you know, it can get really dark. And so that's why I, you know, spend so much of my time now talking, especially to

entrepreneurs and mentoring entrepreneurs and saying like, look, like having goals, ambition, all these things are great and I'm competitive. I like to win. But none of it will ever be enough. Just like accept that. If you can accept that one thing today is no matter what, it will never be enough. And it's designed that way. I think that whether you believe in God or the universe or whatever, I actually think there's this divine design that achievement is designed to disappoint.

Like Kevin Love and I talked about this. Like winning the NBA championship with LeBron next season, he has the biggest panic attack of his life. You know, why? Well, because it's almost designed so that you will achieve, you can achieve, and then you realize that's not it, which causes you to go on what I think is the greatest adventure in life. And that's what I call the inner adventure. When you go inward, when you start really thinking about who am I, what do I want to do with this one precious life I have? And how do I want to show up? And that's where these deeper conversations come in.

you know, that's where that's where I think the real sweetness of life can come. But sometimes you can't get there until you realize all the things you thought was going to make you feel great, you know, are nice, but they're not the thing. That's where I wanted to go with my next question because I've gotten this feedback before from the audience of like, well, you know, it's easy for him to say because, you know, he's already worth, you know, multi-million. So now he can look inward, you know, I'm grinding on $60,000 salary trying to get my startup off the ground. and you know what I mean? I don't have time to think about mental health. And I, like, I understand both sides of the equation. You know what I mean?

Like, I understand the, man, I hit my goals, right? I got money in the bank. Life is good. You know, my kids are going to be taken care of. Shit, what's next? And I also get, oh, my God, like, I'm literally scraping and scratching and bleeding for every inch of my business. I don't have time to think about what peptide I'm taking or how cold,

cold plunges or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, and so how do you bring, but, but they seem to be fighting the same battle, right? It's, it's, it's just like a, it's like a barbell kind of idea where, you know, the, the middle part people don't seem to have problems with. You know what I mean? When you're on the path and you've got enough, you have enough coming in that you're not, you know, your past kind of depravity, but maybe you haven't hit your goal yet. That seems like a very kind of relatively clear place for people to be, but there's people

who are stuck down here that can't get off the ground and then you have people who've achieved but don't know what to do next. Like, are they kind of fighting the same battle? And how do we get those two groups talking to each other and, you know, and learning from each other so that we don't have this group of entrepreneurs, men and women. And I think, I think in some regards, we don't talk enough about the women who are struggling to get their business off the ground and the unique mental challenges they face. Yeah, because it tends to be, it's seemingly not a psychologist, seems like different.

How can that group learn from, say, maybe the group that you're in, where you're starting to go inward post success? Yeah, well, I think the thing is, is one of my favorite things, I just had Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx on my show. And I've known Sarah for a long time. And she's a really wise woman and a great entrepreneur. And we talked a lot about money on the show. and how money can be incredibly detrimental in someone's life, even not having it, like you're saying one group or having too much of it. And when she said about his money is like money just kind of like puts a magnifying glass

on someone's values and who they are. So if you're a dick, you're more of a dick when you have money. You know, if you're generous when you have nothing, you're going to be really generous when you have money. And so what I'd say is, yes, whether someone is barely scraping to get by or it's had some huge exits. Like what I would say to have them talk to each other is I'd have the huge exit person say, don't do what I did in terms of believing that someday, someday when you sell the company, someday when you get married, someday when you have kids, someday when you get that new apartment,

you're going to be happy. You've got to learn to be happy now. Because if you learn to be happy now, then you'll be able to handle all those things in a way that would be different if you were waiting to be happy when you achieve them. And then they don't. give you the happiness, so then you fall into a really dark period. And so, you know, I think all kind of inner work and all kind of focusing on the mental side of life can't start early enough. So that's why I love mentoring like 20 year olds. I'm like, man, if you, if you can give me your attention, I can save you a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of pain because I made a lot of mistakes along the way. And it's also, it gives me, you know, I think that's one of the reasons

why I do the podcast is it gives me kind of joy to know that some of my suffering is keeping other people from suffering. And so, so I think that, you know, it, even if you're grinding and trying to make ends meets and having that, you know, you still got to take some time. It doesn't have be a lot of time. It would be 20 minutes a day, 40 minutes a day. Maybe it's 20 minutes, like listen to to podcasts that can inspire you and expand your mind and your consciousness and spend 20 minutes just sitting there thinking about it, but be growing, doing that work now because that work, whether you achieve your goals or not, you're going to need that mental fortitude because life is hard. I mean, life is, it doesn't matter, you know, I always say the thing about, you know,

experiencing depression and now spending so much of my life, you know, trying to help people who maybe you're in it or getting through it or or, or feeling stuck is, you know, it doesn't care how much money you have. It doesn't care your race. It doesn't care your culture. It loves to ruin people's lives no matter where they come from. So, yeah, I think it's, I think you, you basically have to develop the things at a young age and before success so that when you do have it or even if you don't have it, you're going to be able to deal with either of those situations. One of my favorite quotes from a poem that by, there's a great poet named Rudyard Kipling. I don't know if you know him or not. But Rudyard Kipling wrote this poem called If.

And when I was a kid, I had to memorize this poem. And it stuck with me my whole life. But my favorite line is the last one. And it says, if you can meet triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same. So no matter how much success you have or how much failure, they're both impostors. They're just parts of the journey. And you treat them both the same, then that's when you really can make. master a big part of living well.

I don't believe in coincidence. I literally just shared that poem for the first time of my boys this week. I posted it on LinkedIn to just share like, I think that poem is absolutely phenomenal. It's one of my favorite. It's one of my favorite poems or just ideas of sculpting who you are as a person. And this is crazy. Literally this week, very first time I shared it with them.

That's crazy. I literally have had that poem up on my wall in almost every single office I've had since I started my laundry business at age 19. I made them, so the first, I made them read Teddy Roosevelt's man in the arena a couple months ago because that hangs in my every office I've ever been in as a reminder of, you know, the fodder, you know, the flack that you take as you're going through this, not just externally, but also internally, right? you get a lot of internal flack and you need to know that that voice in your head's not the one who's living through it just like the voices externally. And that is wild that you brought that up. And I love it. It means that we were meant to talk today. That's what that means. Totally. Are you, have you, like, are you faith based in this at all? Do you, do you, do you have a faith or you, does that drive any of this kind of stuff? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, you know,

my kind of faith journey has been a wild one. Like, We have a whole other podcast about that. You know, I grew up in a family where we never went to church. Then I had a tennis coach, this amazing African-American man who started taking me to a Pentecostal church where I was the only white person for four years, which became a huge part of my life. And then after college, I started exploring all these other different types of religions. Today, I would say that I am deeply, I don't know if I would say, I just feel like I'm connected to the source. And I'm not sure exactly what that source is,

but I know that it's been with me and guiding me. And the more that I focus on serving others, the more that I focus on, you know, kind of, you know, treating others as I wish to be treated, which, you know, comes from everything I learned in the Bible. The more that I do that, the more that I feel that this source is supporting me in whatever I'm doing.

And so, you know, it's for me right now, it's this really sweet time where I just feel like, because I've slowed down, because I think I'm working on projects that I really care about that I think can really change people's lives. I just feel that every day is just like an ongoing prayer conversation. Like I used to think a prayer is like, dear God, please protect me, please protect my kids. you know, dear God, you know, please help this stress and this depression go away. Now it's just kind of like, God, that was really cool what happened. Or God, I, that, that, the fact that Ryan just read that poem to his kids, that is what I call a God wink, you know, like, I clearly God is like, you're on the right path. I'm doing the easy.

What did you call it, the easy, um, earlier? Easy mode. I was in easy mode today because that happened. You know, and another thing that was really cool that has happened kind of synchronistically for me. and it's one of the startups that I've co-founded that I'm super involved in is, you know, I, when I sold Tom's, they hired a new CEO, this guy, Magnus, and I was not involved in the company, but I kind of got to know Magnus, and I really liked him. And I remember thinking, like, I had such a bummer that when I sold, you know, they brought in this guy,

Magnus. He was from Nike. He'd been there for a long time. I was like, I really wish I could have worked with Magnus. I think we could have, like, made some magic together. So about two years ago, I run into Magnus in Santa Barbara, and he had just left Tom's. And he's like, hey, I just left and I'm doing this new chair company. And I'm like, chair company. Like, what is, you know, and he says, you know, basically our concept is, is that the key to health and wellness is to always keep moving. And everyone jokes about me because they say he's all.

always moving. And so he had me as like, what do you mean always moving? And so he said, basically, there were these engineers from Nike that he knew back in his day. They developed an office chair that sits and it pivots two different ways. So it moves this way. I wish I had one right now. And it moves this way. And so basically by doing this, it creates, it takes all the pressure out of your lower back. And so I've always had like lower back problems. I think from all the golf I play and surfing and years of tennis. And so sitting on Zoom, or doing podcasts, like really is not good for me because I'm sitting still and there's like no blood flow on my back and all this. And so this was right before I was thinking about doing the

podcast. And so he's like, do you mind, can I come over and show it to you? And I sat in this chair, it's called the Move Lab chair. And it was like a revelation. I was like, this is the craziest thing. Like I'm sitting, but yet I'm kind of micro moving. And it's actually proven to be really good for people with ADHD. But so I'm doing these micro movements. And when I stand up after sitting for four hours on Zooms. I feel amazing. Like, I feel like I've just been walking and doing an active life every day. And so literally, he was like, hey, will you invest in this? And I was like, no, I want to be a founder. Like, I want to start. Like, I hadn't been this excited about something, you know, since like Tom's. And so I joined the company and I've been working with the team and

we're launching it in September. But I'm telling you, it has been one of those God things, whereas like, I always wanted to work with Magnus. I have this back issue that has been I don't have any back issue right now. It's incredible. And it's in my office, not here where I'm doing the podcast today. And now I get to be entrepreneurial again. And it's like, I've been like wanting this and kind of almost like praying for this in a weird way. And then it just all like came to me. Like I didn't like go seeking it out. And so yeah, so the chair is called, I'm going to send you one. It's called Move Lab. And for someone who's a podcast host and sits a lot, it is. It sounds amazing. So, yeah. I mean, literally you got me. It's really fun. And it's fun to build something from

scratch again. Like, you know, there's always, there's just that magic of like when you're first, like, you know, working to fine tune it has been amazing. And now we're doing the pre-orders on the website and we've already sold a bunch. It's like the excitement, you know, and each, each order really matters. And, oh, you know, and so it's just super fun. And I feel like once again, it goes back to that. This feels easy. Like, this feels like the flow. And so, so yeah, it's moved lab, but it's spelled M-O-O-O-V-L-A-B, if anyone wants to check. it out. But I'm I'm super proud of what we've created. I think it's going to help a lot of people. I mean, so many people now work from home, you know, and think about it. Like, you probably

spend more time in your chair than anywhere else. Like, beside your bed, you know, hopefully if you're sleeping well, but then in your chair, you're spending so much time in. And so to have something that is supporting you and your blood flow and the thing about ADHD is interesting. I don't have, or maybe I do. I don't know. I've never been diagnosed. But Magnus has really severe ADHD. and he says that he used to always use these like fidget toys and stuff to like kind of like help him focus if he's doing something else with his hands but now these little micro movements you're doing with the chair is kind of the same thing so he feels like he can lock in so uh i'll send you as soon as they come out um i very much appreciate that i i will say i found um so i also i i tore a ligament my lower back playing football in high school and um and so i've always had to be very careful with with you know not careful but like I had to be smart about it and I found um I do this is contextual but I found barefoot shoes doing 40 pound ruck walks so I'll go for a 45 minute walk with a ruck vest on but I'll wear barefoot shoes and barefoot shoes with the unlock I originally

thought it was just going to be the vest but when I went to the barefoot shoes um what if it does this similar concept to the chair the constant movements you're we don't realize how standard kind of walking shoes or running shoes lock our feet in, lock in our motion, so we're only doing one motion over and over and over again. Where with the barefoot shoe, you're feeling every contour of the road. So every micro muscle, every tiny tendon,

everything from the tips of your toes to the top of your back is constantly having to adjust with every step. And then when you have the added weight, it's doing the same thing. And I found for knee pain, foot pain, hips, lower back. It's like all gone. Like it's crazy.

Wow. Okay. So that's, I love, I love that. Is there a specific barefoot shoe you like best? Because I don't know how I am on. I don't even know what these are.

I've worn, I've officially worn the tag off of these shoes, so I don't even know. Okay. Any barefoot, because I've been hearing a lot about this. I think it doesn't really matter. To be honest,

to be honest with you, I've tried different ones, you know, um, yeah. and, you know, they all, the, the, you know, whatever holds up, I think is probably going to be the best one. I don't know that I have a firm recommendation, but I do, that has been a big unlock. And what I'll do to going all the way back to your point of quiet time, I used to have earpods in and make phone calls or do a podcast.

And now I go, nothing. So just I leave my phone at home. I leave my AirPods at home. I throw my vest on my shoes and off I go. Man, you come back. My biggest problem, sometimes the other day, the other day I was like half jogging back because they had this really good idea that didn't want to lose. So I was like, I started running a little bit in the vest and I'm like dying because I was like, I don't want to lose this idea. It was like, you know, for one of the companies I work with.

I've been there. I know that. Well, Blake, man, dude, I can talk to you for hours about this stuff. I love that someone who has had the success that you've had is so incredibly willing to be open about, you know, going. to therapy and using AI. These are the kinds of things that I think people need to hear. It's almost like not that you're giving them permission, but you are to a certain extent to say, look, like you're not wrong, weird, weak.

You're not broken for wanting to develop a morning routine and get up early, even though all your buddies are beer drinkers and stay up late. You're not wrong for needing to talk to somebody and get the crazy thoughts that we all have, right? just get them out of your face, right? Just, just you're not alone. And like, I think more and more of these conversations need to happen. It's why I'm so glad that you have this podcast.

And guys, we're going to have everything that we talked about linked up. So whether you're watching on YouTube, listen to wherever you listen, scroll down. We'll have the podcast. We'll have the Web, enough movement website up. We'll have all this stuff so you can check it out. But like if you want, if someone wants to follow along with what you're doing and this, this part of your journey, which I think is incredibly important, look, Where is the best place for them to go?

Basically, Instagram. I mean, that's kind of where it's just at Blake Mikoski. That's where I kind of talk about all the things. And then also Blakemykoski.com. I actually, I know websites are kind of out of fashion, but I have so many cool projects I'm working on right now that I decide to create a personal website this year. It's not anything extravagant,

but it basically has a little bit of information about all the things that I'm working on and I'm passionate about and all in service of trying to help others on their journey. I'm with you on the website thing. I don't know if it's just because I've been online for almost 20 years now or whatever, but like I still, I still miss the kind of good old days when you would go to somebody's website and read their blog. And, hey, that's what I did. I created one. I have a substack on it. I have links to the No Magic Bill podcast. It's kind of everything. Because sometimes, you know, Instagram is fun and I have a lot of fun with it and I try to put things in real time that I'm learning. But it's nice to have just a website, you know, my, simply just my name,

then, you know, someone can go and actually spend some time and say, okay, this is what I want to dig into or this is what I want to find. Well, I appreciate you, your time. I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing with our audience. And not that I think you need it, but I wish you nothing but the best in all the endeavors you have coming forward.