The Ryan Leak Podcast - Getting Unstuck w/Mike Smith

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

Mike Smith has been a professional development coach for over two decades. He's worked with the NFL and various other organizations. Ryan and Mike sat down and had an encouraging conversation about what to do when you just feel stuck. Mike is also available on the Ryan Leak Group's coaching platform, which can be found at ryanleak.com.

Welcome to followership with Ryan Leak, a podcast design is talk about the other side of leadership. Today's podcast, we're continuing talking about coaching. I think every single follower, every single team member should have somebody in their life that they're giving permission to to speak into their lives. And so we've been having different executive coaches a part of my coaching platform on the podcast to talk to us about the importance of coaching. I encourage you to check out that coaching platform at ryanleek.com. If you need a coach, I highly recommend some of the ones that I have brought on on my podcast. And if not them, I encourage you to have somebody in your life that you give permission to tell you know and to be able to steer you in the right direction. On today's episode, we have a good friend of mine named Mike Smith.

He is going to talk to us about some of his experience with the NFL. So go ahead and check out this conversation that I had with my friend, Mike Smith. Well, ladies and gentlemen, I have my friend Mike Smith on the podcast today. We are in this coaching series talking more about, man, how can we as followers really understand this whole idea of what it means to be in a good coaching mentor relationship? Sometimes you can be waiting for somebody to have a one-on-one with you before you start to receive coaching. this episode is one where we're going to encourage you to actually seek it out. And Mike Smith has a vast experience in coaching. He worked with the NFL for a long time,

and I'm going to let him tell you a little bit more about his background. But ladies and gentlemen, welcome Mike Smith to the podcast. Mike, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to be with us today. So tell our audience a little bit about your background in coaching. Well, Ryan, first of all, thanks for having me. So excited to talk about leadership and followership during this podcast. It's two topics that are just near and dear to my heart. And I think we all can get better at. You know, the Cliff Notes version is that, you know, I'm a sports and media, HR and finance leader for 25 plus years that decided that it was time for me to pay it forward in life and take all the lessons I learned during my corporate roles and pay.

and pay it forward to the next generation of leaders and teams through executive coaching. And I lean on my sports background to have people really think about themselves as athletes, athletes that are in training, athletes that need to get better. And how I fell upon that journey is, you know, I was a finance person for, you know, 20 plus years at Deloitte and then NBC and then at the NFL. And I just felt my learning curve flattening. And, you know, when you're in that spot where you feel like you're learning and starting to slow, you know, you really have to get yourself unstuck. And so I initiated a conversation at the

NFL with Commissioner Goodell and some of the other leaders around how could we at the NFL think about our people and culture in the same strategic way that we think about selling tickets or the game of football? Because, you know, when I was in finance, I was always this very right brain thinker in a left brain world. And I always valued people in culture and having sat across, you know, hundreds of business plans and financial reviews, you know, it was inarguable that talented leaders and engaged teams just deliver better results. And so what I want to do is be in the forefront in creating a better version of that for the NFL at large. And was great as they gave me the keys to the car and said, Mike, go build something. And what was great is there were so many resources

around the NFL, a former players, you know, Troy Vincent, who is an awesome and a mentor of mine, who leads the football operation. He said, Mike, just look at the sport. You know, the sport of football has so many great lessons about leadership. Just start there and you'll find your answer. And one of the places I really looked to was coaching, because coaching is so endemic to football. I thought to myself,

why would the NFL league office and corporate office not be a best practice in how we coach each other? So I started there and then expanded to, you know, we didn't have talent acquisition. We had scouting. You know, so everything became, about what are the lessons in the game that we could use to pull into our employee-based. And we focused on leaders, but we focused on everybody because this podcast is about

followership and your audience are people that are either leading small teams or trying to rise the ranks or people that maybe you're still looking for something else. But then we also did focus on where we thought we would get more leverage in the organization by some of a more senior people. And that's where, you know, we attach them to some of the world's best coaches. And I saw the impact firsthand. You know, the best coaches, you know, push, they challenge, they guide. And I think it's probably helpful for the audience because when people think about coaching,

they probably think about it through a sports lens of, say, Bill Belichick showing Tom Brady, you know, a certain way to run a play. And I think coaching. leader, it's a little bit different, is that you know, you're not telling someone what to do. You're really sort of helping them see what they couldn't see. You know, they're helping, you're helping them notice things in a way that guides them to whatever their desired future state is, you know, whatever it is. It could be a new skill. It could be a new behavior. But, you know, coaches end up asking more questions than giving answers a good coach. And, you know, for me,

that's been so satisfying now leaning in full-time with clients on the executive coaching side because you just see the journey. You see the journey of someone, you know, day one when they show up to where they are, you know, three, six, nine months later. And what I also find satisfying is just, you know, taking the lessons of the game of football and sports generally and leaning into that and just making sure people really think about themselves as athletes because it's a great place to put your head and your mindset when you're thinking about personal growth. It's awesome.

Man, I love that. You used a phrase that I think our audience really can relate to in that you were at a place in your life where you felt stuck and we're trying to figure out how to get unstuck. How do you coach people who would, that's where they would say that they are right now, that they feel, they feel stuck. It's tough. And if you're stuck and your boss isn't really supportive and your organization is not really supportive, then that's, you know, really, really hard. You know, you're something like 70% of a person's experience in the workplace is dictated by their boss. And if your, your boss isn't

as supportive as they can be and an organization maybe doesn't have opportunities elsewhere, then, you know, you have to create a plan. You know, not. every organization is going to be investing in executive coaches for people. Not every organization is going to see the value of coaching, but everybody has the ability to create a plan for themselves and to seek out advice for mentors and do something just to create some momentum. People may be familiar with this notion of a development is this mix of 70% learn by doing, 20% learn from experts and 10% sort of formal classroom, a 70, 20, 10 model. And what I would like to tell people is, you know, set a goal for yourself of, you know,

what you want to be from a personal development standpoint for the next 12 months. What skills, what, you know, actions do I want to take, maybe have a directional career plan of three years. You know, it's tough to sort of plan out longer than that for most people. And then sort of seek out advice from mentors inside the organization, outside the organization, family, friends. We all have networks. And if we don't have networks

that are very active, then we have to activate them. But then really develop a game plan for yourself because I think what I'd like to impart to people, and if there's one lesson that people take away from this podcast, is everyone is the CEO of your own career. Everyone has a CEO title. It's just you are in charge of yourself.

And the most a manager or an organization can do is support your ambition, but you can make an ask and you can try to affect change. But at the end of the day, it's going to be about personal agency and a person really sort of figuring out how to make something happen. And some people have very high bars. Some people, it's very difficult. There's obstacles.

And I don't want to underestimate that. But what I would implore be able to do is to talk to people and figure out what are little micro steps they can take to start moving them in the right direction. And progress is an underestimated motivation. You know, just making some progress, getting some small wins, meeting some people, having a conversation that fills you with oxygen. Those are the things that, you know, get you moving in the right direction if you're a little bit stuck. Yeah, that's really good.

I wonder, you know, as I was listening to you, break that down. I wonder, and I've heard this my whole life where there is this, and people say this to me even to this day, find a mentor. and it's almost as if we assume that like there's this park where all these mentors are sitting that are ahead of you and they're just waiting for you to just come by, you know, I wish that there wasn't, maybe there is a site. I just haven't found that where like, you know, they're connecting mentors to mentees. What do you think is important when seeking out a mentor? Like typically the person you want to be mentored by doesn't have that much margin.

have to be pretty selective about who they invest in time. Like, what do you think someone can do to make themselves stand out as the mentee when approaching someone that want to be mentored by? For me, it starts with let's just establish a relationship first. You know, I think the best mentoring relationships happen organically. And it can start with if you're reaching out to someone. that is either through a referral or even blind is, you know, making the first ask pretty limited. Make it pretty sort of easy for the person. Can I get 15 minutes of your time? Because I'd love to

pick your brain on a very specific thing. And then see if there's chemistry and go from there. You know, I think, you know, trying to approach someone whether you know or don't know with sort of a heavy ask of, I want you to be a mentor, maybe is something that you slow roll into as opposed to leading with that. But one of the things I found over the last couple of years, all the craziness of the pandemic and the chaos that's ensued is I do think that people woke up to the importance of helping each other a little bit navigate during times. I think that there's definitely more of a willingness to accept blind LinkedIn messages, very short virtual coffees, to do an intro for someone.

I just think it's better now than it used to be. And I also think that people, sometimes they have self-limiting beliefs around I can't ask Ryan or Mike for a virtual coffee because of who there are, what their background is. Why not? Like, you know, I don't know about you, Ryan,

but like, I love to give advice. Like, I love to sort of shepherd young people to the extent I can. I love to do an intro if it's something that sort of is organic and I've got some sense of who the person is as opposed to just, you know, not just a blind person that I don't have a personal experience with. But people like to offer advice. And it might be that they don't have time in that moment or it might be that, you know, they have an email or LinkedIn message that they've lost. But that doesn't mean that

they're, you know, blowing you off and people should stop. And I think there's there, people should think about themselves as the CEO. What can I do that's appropriately assertive? to get on someone's radar and just start a conversation. And we don't need to worry about, am I a mentor with a capital M just yet? That's just about to get to know each other yet and see where it goes. No, that's great. When you think about different coaching models,

I want to get practical here for our listeners of saying, okay, entering into a formal relationship with a coach, what are some of the different models that are out there? how long, how much should they expect to pay, give a little bit of the gamut so that they kind of have an anticipation of going, you know, everybody's budget is different. I think obviously everyone wants something for free, but what I've discovered in business is when you pay for something, you're engaged in it at a whole other level, and those are the things that really help you grow. And so I think it's important that there is a fee attached to it for both parties.

I think that it keeps both engaged at a high level. And I think the best results come from those. So give people a little bit of the gamut of what they can expect, anticipate, and what I encourage people to do, begin budgeting a certain amount of your resources to say, hey, I want to receive coaching and you're investing in yourself. That's what I want people to know. You're investing in yourself. So give people a little bit of the gamut of what they should sort of anticipate

when looking for a coach. Yeah. Well, the first thing I'll say is that coaching is a little bit like the Wild Wild West. There's a lot of coaches out there with a lot of certifications, a lot of different backgrounds, a lot of different credentials in different areas. And so there is no one size fits all. But I will say, let me sort of say a couple things that are sort of most typical around sort of a coaching relationship. Most coaching relationships have three phases to them, where the first phase will be around getting some context around where the person is in their life.

And that involves data collection, either through self-data collection, it could be 360 data collection where we talk to people in your organization or around. you. It involves, it could involve psychometric assessments. It could involve a bunch of things, but we get data and understand where the person is. And that takes a little bit time. And also during that period is where the trust starts to build with a person, because sometimes it takes a little bit of effort for a person to be really transparent around sort of where they are and what they want. Once we have the data, then we start moving into, okay, well, what do we want to do with that data. What do we want to do from a game plan perspective? What do we want to do to actually set goals for ourselves? What are you willing to sign up for? You know, this is,

this is hard work. Pushing yourself out of your comfort zone is going to require you to do some things a little bit different. You're going to be uncomfortable. That's natural progress is not going to be a straight line. It never is. So what are you willing to sign up for? There's no right or wrong answer. Just do you want change that's going to be big or small, fast, or slow? And so once we then get a game plan, third phase is around okay, now new conduct. You know, we are experimenting, we're practicing, we'll have meetings where Mike, that was so awesome, or Mike, you're an idiot, that didn't work. And so then we'll unpack that. And there's during that phase especially is there's a fair amount of challenge and support that comes from a coaching relationship where there's going to be

times where a coach needs to really push you. And there's going to be times where the person's not as optimistic as they should be, and the coach is going to really get behind them and support them. And so those three phases, what I recommend for the best impact will take about six months of time. You know, there's coaching relationships that last three months. There's coaching relationships all of course, they go longer. But in order to really see change in a person, I would recommend six months. Now, to your question about sort of from a structuring a budget perspective, again, this is literally from A to Z what you could expect at the most sort of, uh, the lowest touch may be inexpensive level, there are virtual coaching platforms out there that

anyone can search and find where you get attached to an executive coach. And that might be something that is order of magnitude, $100 to $150 a session that a person would pay for that. And then the frequency of that depends upon, you know, does a person want to do it weekly, biweekly, monthly? You know, it sort of is up to them around, again, the rate of change they want to have in their life and people can do their own research on what those platforms are. If you want to have more of a higher end touch and deal with a person that is more tailored and more customized and more invested, those relationships sometimes range per session, but mostly just become a retainer where you'll agree on a rate of whether it's $5,000 for three or six months or $10,000 for six months or you

pick your number and your level in terms of what that is. There's obviously incredibly senior people that are paying a whole lot of money, many, many multiples of that for their executive coaching. So I think the good news is that there's a lot of options for folks. And so if people are really interested in the personal development, don't necessarily get scared by a price tag, because do some research. Because between virtual platforms and some coaches that maybe are also just starting out on their own, or maybe even coaches that are in the process of getting certified and they need some training hours themselves, that's sort of a good, low-cost resource to access some really, really smart coaches.

Yeah. You, one of the things you said there is, you know, you should expect your coach to perhaps say some things to you that can be tough. Obviously, we're both coaches. We've said things that have been tough pills to swallow, so to speak. Some people respond, well, that some don't. What can somebody be doing now to sort of? sort of prepare for for some of that what we would call tough pills to swallow or or tough

coaching because I was I was sitting with a friend one time and he says something that I'll never forget he said hey I didn't play sports growing up I've never had anybody yell at me and tell me like like I've never had anyone basically tell me it over it and keep running so I'm in my 40s now he's like it's not that I've never had anybody yell at me but he's like I'm I never had, I've never had a coach. Like, he wasn't, like, allowed to play sports as a kid for whatever purposes. His parents and say, hey, he's just not going to be in a sports. It's going to be in an art or whatever.

But he's like, dude, I just don't do well with people just, you know, I've been going on a military background. I've never had someone saying, all right, you're going to do 10 pushups now. And at 7, I give up. And he goes, no, we're not leaving until you do. Like, they've never had that. I mean, I played sports from my home. whole life. So people saying something to me or criticism, it's like, dude, this is a part of,

it's a part of life. You just, you just kind of keep going. So I think for the person that is not accustomed to really have ever having a coach or the last time they did was in high school, you know, and they're in their late 30s now. I haven't had a coach in 20 years. So what can somebody be doing to put themselves in the prime position to actually receive coaching? Yeah. Well, great. question. And I think the way I would answer that is a good coach should be tailing their message to what is going to work for the client to actually make them the best version of themselves. You know, one of the, we all have got cliches we lead on in our coaching experience. And one of my favorite one is don't treat people how you want to be treated. Treat people how they want to be treated.

You change one word and it's got a massive impact on what the relationship you have with an individual is. And there's clients that I have raised my voice with, but I knew that I had a relationship and trust and that's what they needed in that moment. But literally yesterday, I was with a client and they said something that they were, you know, repeating old tapes of a situation we've already talked about and they weren't sort of, they weren't getting themselves stuck in their relationship. They were still stuck in the past. And I didn't raise my voice, but you can very sternly say, this is what I'm hearing? And is that sort of what you are meaning to say? Because what it sounds like to me is we're still reliving sort of prior conversations that happened two years ago. Is that

really where you, is that going to get the relationship where you want to go? And so you can say things in a very stern way with a client that is respectful if that's what they need. But I think to your point, if a person is not really accustomed to getting feedback generally, what's a safe way that you sort of get a glide path into that? It's talk to your network. Talk to the people around you that you trust and respect and have a relationship with. When do you see me at my best. You know, when, what do you see, when do you see me happy? When do you see me really sort of miserable? What, what have you seen from a work or life perspective that just I'm not as skilled at? To start getting feedback in a very safe space to then, for me, it's about increasing

self-awareness. Because one of the, you know, one of the biggest challenges that we all face is seeing the world as we want to see it, as opposed to the world as it actually is. And asking questions, getting feedback is a gift. And, you know, somebody's caring enough about you to tell you something, you know, it's a great gift. And it's something that we should go seek much, much more often than we normally do. Yeah. No, I love that. Last question for you, for people that find themselves in an organization where they just feel completely undervalued. They just, they feel like perhaps that they work for a bad leader. I read one survey the other day that described,

I think there was like 70% of people described their leader's toxic. I mean, like, people can just really find themselves in some really tough situations. How would you coach somebody in that situation? He says, hey, if they feel like they're limited by their leader, how would you coach that person? Boy, you're not going to be any softballs, Ryan. So that's a, that's a tough one. Listen, I think the specifics always matter.

And I've come across leaders in my career, as I'm sure you have, that just we're not good people. And those are people that we have to figure out how we avoid or if they're doing something that is violating a policy. We have to figure out a way to just get them out of the organization. Having said that, toxic is likely a word that means a lot of things to different people in a big survey. So we would unpack what that means. And so, like, what does that mean? Well, his values or her values don't align with mine. Okay, well, what does that mean?

What values are we talking about? And there is, I think when you start drilling things down and getting to root causes, that's what allows people to then find some alignment to then start building back up again. Because, you know, if a person utterly lacks integrity, dishonest, you know, those types of things, that's like whole one angle that is maybe one path around how do we create a plan to accelerate a job move into the organization or out of the job out of the organization. But if there's once we start unpacking it, there may be toxic lower case tea, but when we start unpacking it, okay, well, what's going on? What behaviors are we actually talking about? There might be some ways, some things that we can really learn from that person or ways that we navigate around them or

or if they're not being helpful from, they're not helping me learn or they're making my job hard because they're not collaborating with their own peers, well, you know, there's probably places I can learn elsewhere or alliances I can form with my peer group that actually work around my boss. So again, I'm not suggesting that people don't have horrible bosses

because everyone's come across those. But what I'm saying is that when part of what a coach's role is is to challenge people's assumptions around sort of what their initial impression is and really unpack it and get to a place that we're productive. You know, because we have to be moving forward in a direction that is productive because wallowing in what was me, maybe it's even justified. It's just not going to get you anywhere.

So we have to sort of figure out a way, how do we move in a direction that's going to be productive? And it might be that this boss, that's just a bad boss, has got some qualities that we can really learn from and figure out how do we work around the ones that are really, really, not pleasant. That's awesome. That's awesome. I really, I really think that's very helpful because I think a lot of people, I think one of the greatest benefits of a coach is just an outside perspective. And I don't care where you are in your career. I don't care if you've climbed the ladder and you've arrived, like you still always need an outside perspective to help you flesh out some of those tough thoughts that you just battle on a daily basis. And I love just how you just unpacked even just

that we're toxic. Okay, well, what does it mean? Sometimes, we just like to throw words out there and just expect that everyone's just going to receive it and just know what that means. But actually, when you begin to flesh that out, talk those things out, I think you really can get some places and begin to grow and challenge some of the assumptions

that you've made about your own organization and perhaps your leader. So that was very, very helpful. I really, really appreciate your time today, Mike. And I hope people continue to get to connect with you on our future. coaching platform and we're going to give them a little bit more information about that. But hey, I so very much appreciate your time today.

Thank you for sharing some of your insight with our followership audience today. That was awesome. Thanks so much, Ryan. Love talking about this stuff anytime. Had it blessed.