The Ryan Leak Podcast - How to Follow a Mediocre Leader w/Ryan Skoog

Episode Date: August 31, 2020

Sometimes you're stuck with a mediocre leader, but Ryan Skoog teaches us that a bad leader can actually be a gift.  Ryan Skoog spends half of his time running a couple of for profit travel companies and the other half of his time running a non-profit organization called Venture. Venture is an organization that serves in areas of the world that are the least reached and least resourced by partnering with local leaders in those communities to end some of the worlds greatest injustices. Through their organization, you can raise money for injustices by doing tough things like running long distances, hiking mountains, or biking. You can learn more about Venture at venture.org. Show notes for this episode are available at ryanleak.com/followership.

Welcome to Followership with Ryan Leake, a podcast designed to equip followers with the tools they need to succeed in the workplace. Now, I know leadership is often a more popular discussion, but the reality is most people will spend the majority of their careers doing more following than they will lead. And they need help to do it. Now, here's the deal. You might work for a good, bad, or mediocre leader. But here's the good news. The type of leader you have does not have to determine the type of follower you can become. I'm your host, Ryan Lee, and you're on the ground floor of followership, ladies and gentlemen.

That's right. This is episode one, and my first guest is a friend of mine named Ryan Scoot, who has a unique business model you have to hear about. Now, before we get into that, I want you to know that if you're listening to this episode, you hear this conversation that me and Ryan are about to have, you think to yourself, yo, that was fire.

Guess what? You can get all the show notes for every episode of followership with Ryan Leak at Ryanleak.com slash followership. Again, that's Ryanleek.com slash followership. Now, without any further ado, let's go ahead and jump into this phone conversation that my friend Ryan Skug and I have that I believe is going to add value to how well you follow. Go ahead and check this out. I'm seriously honored that you would be my first guest on the followers. podcast. You've had such an influence on my life. We met when I was in college at a pivotal, formidable age I was at. And you just, every time we got together, it just felt like light bulbs

just continually went off of my head. And you constantly gave me great ideas of how I could grow, business ideas, business advice. And so I've always, I've always admired your bruntled. your business acumen. And so, dude, seriously, thank you so much for taking some time out of your busy day to be on the fellowship podcast. Man, no, thank you. And now the exciting thing is I get together with you and light bulbs are going off and all your creativity and all your ideas.

So I'm just honored to be here and love any time we can get together and talk. I just love how you think and how you process and how you, interact with people and leaders. It's awesome. It's inspiring. I appreciate. Well, real quick for our followers and listeners on this followership podcast, why don't you tell people a little bit about what it is you actually do? Because you've got a unique business model that is non-profit and for-profit. So tell people about how that works. Yeah, so it's always a mouthful to share, but we, an entrepreneur started several travel technology companies. So we serve international airfare to about 10,000 different travel agents around the country.

And we serve huge groups, like thousands of people going to see the Pope. And we do another company that is travel insurance, like an aggregator for travel insurance. And so we've launched those companies. And I spend about half my time with those companies. And I really love being the person at the very beginning part of the entrepreneurial journey, getting the right strategy, getting the right business model, getting the right funding, getting the right people, the right culture. And then I try and get out of the way once those things are lined up.

And then back in college, it started a what was first a club with my friends. We're like, hey, let's bike across the country and raise money to help some kids who are hurting overseas. And we raised about $16,000. And we thought, man, whoa, that could have been like a million dollars. us then. But we stumbled upon something. How did you get that? How did you, how did you step up? What do you just raise money? You just called people and said,

Hey yeah, give me some money, so I can bike across the money. What was your pen? Yeah, yeah. Well, it really was like, hey, these kids are going through something really tough, so we're going to do something really tough to help them. And so we, and right from the beginning, we're like, and every penny you give is going to go straight to these kids. So people are like, wow.

And I've said this for a while. The last inspiring thing in the world is sacrifice. I mean, we've seen every pitch, every video, all of that stuff. But when someone you know puts themselves out in sacrifice, it still turns head. It still inspires people. And so that, even for crazy college kids, you know, that little sacrifice, we stumbled upon this. And it just started kind of spreading like wildfire. And a New York Times bestselling author on one of our tours, and then he wrote about it.

His next book became a New York Times bestseller again. And so people from all over the country started calling us. And now there's thousands of people who raise millions of dollars to help war refugees and victims of trafficking and people who are like in risk of child soldiering or in impressive poverty. And so we just this whole idea of do tough things to help people in really tough places. You know, and a kid who woke up in a brothel or in a refugee camp or an area with landmines. Like that's where we want to go and inspire people here to truly sacrifice and step out and do something really hard. And it changes us in the process. It's really exciting.

And so I think we've raised so far $35 million. And we help around $21,000. Yeah, it's just, it's really snowballed. And I spend half my time with the for-profit companies and then half my time with venture, the nonprofit. profit. And what we do is we take profits from our for-profit companies and we cover all the admin of venture so that when people give 100% of it, just like those early days, 100% of it goes straight to the program and helping the kids. And so every day we serve about 21,000 war refugee kids. Last year alone was another 700,000 or sorry, 700 girls that were rescued from trafficking.

and we educate about 100, I'm sorry, 1,200 refugee kids. And we started a whole new feminine hygiene program to help girls be empowered instead of shunned during that time. And so it's been awesome being able to go to really tough places and bring hope when people are truly like literally walking through minefields for three days just to get a meal. It's just so, I mean, it's gut wrenching and it makes you want to do something. And so then we provide tools. We have an app, a Venture Miles app where people can use an app and log their miles and every mile gets money to people.

And we just keep that kind of a balance between the for-profit companies, giving the profits so that the admin's covered and then all the money goes straight through. And it's been a really exciting journey through that. And I tell people, I'm week to week with all the companies but day-to-day with none of them. So that I'll set up someone who's running the day-to-day

and then try and get out of their way. That's amazing. Well, and I want everyone listening to go to venture.org and if you want to be a part of what Ryan and his team are doing to make a difference around the world, I just think it's incredible. Ryan, you bring up something, you know, you can talk about, you know, sacrifice. What I see Venture doing is rallying large groups of people. in your opinion, what would you say

as the biggest hurdle you've seen followers have from getting out of their comfort zone? Like what's it takes to you to really get to that place of sacrifice? Because, I mean, in my opinion, I mean, most of us are selfish, okay?

Like, I will help you right up until I have to get out of my comfort zone. You know, like, I'll give out of my extra. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But sacrificially is, what's the biggest hurdle you've seen from your vantage point? Yeah, I'd say one of the biggest things is leading people and leading people to step out is helping them see themselves differently.

So listen to when people talk and they'll say things like, oh, I'm not that kind of person or that's not me or I could never do that. And what a leader does is it comes alongside anyone that's thinking that or saying those types of things that said, what if you were that kind of person? What if you did start changing the way you saw yourself? What if you started seeing yourself as that person who can make a difference, who can step out, who does take courageous action? And once they start seeing themselves as that person, boy, get out of the way. Because then they'll go. And so the real challenge of a leader is that that core identity,

like can you come alongside someone and inspire them or create a community or create peer pressure in a good way, it'll allow them to say, maybe I am that person who makes a difference. Maybe I can be that person that steps out. And I was inspired by a quote, actually, in this regard, by Harriet Tubman. When I read it, I just about fell out of my chair.

And you might, maybe have heard this one, but they came to Harriet Tubman and they said, you rescued a thousand slaves. How does that feel? And she said, I could have rescued a thousand. more if I could just convince them they were slaves. Wow. And I just was like, whoa.

She said she had a hard time convincing people. You're not, you're not who you're, you're not flourishing. You're not who you're born to be. Let's take a courageous action and be free and live the full life that you were destined to be. And they were like, I'm good. And so I thought, wow, that's, that's what, Harriet Tubbins, of my favorite leaders ever. And that was her goal

was to come in and convince people. Start seeing yourself as free. Start seeing yourself as someone who can do this. And in a simple way, we try and do that much simpler, just saying, why don't you start seeing yourself as somebody who can take a difference? Step out in courage.

Wow. Man, that's incredible, man. I love that. Do you, when it comes to not just the people you're rallying, you know, let's switch over to the people that you're leading on a day-to-day basis. Sure. And, you know, with those people that are following you, what do you think you spend the most time trying to get followers to understand?

Yeah, good question. We got a phrase around here. It says, you get what you put up with. And I talk to a lot of leaders that are saying, well, I got this going on and this going on and this going on. And a lot of times they'll sit down and say, hey, this is happening because you're putting up with it. What action are you going to take to stop putting up with this? And sometimes it's a crucial conversation with a staff member. Sometimes it's changing a system because the system is getting exactly the results that they're getting,

but it's not the results they want. And so taking that step back as a leader, I always want to say, wait a minute, you're getting this because you're putting up with it. So how do we stop putting up with that? And I think that's one of the more difficult things to understand. And then the other thing is being able to let people know in the organization that momentum is the result of courageous action. So you can step out and take, like we have a real empowering environment here where we want people trying. We want people even failing, but failing fast and failing in a quick way.

and then being able to find, you know, stumble on this success. And so I spend a lot of time letting people know, hey, you can try this. Go ahead and try it. I want you to try these things. And even if it doesn't work out perfectly, we're going to learn a lot. And I remember Bill Gates talked about one of his leaders that led a program that ended up not working, a division that ended up not working out. And it failed.

They're like, are you going to let go of them? And he goes, are you kidding me? He just learned so much through this. I'm going to take all that knowledge and put that leader in somewhere else in our organization, and he's going to have incredible wisdom for the next launch. So that kind of thinking of saying, no, I want you to step out. I want you to step out. I take courageous action.

And let's do it. Obviously within guardrails, it would create. But letting people know that you can try things, you can step out and come up with the creative ideas. It's not a top-down led organization where the leaders are the only ones who come up, with creative action. And in venture, some of the best ideas have not even come from our staff, but they've come from volunteers that said, hey, have you guys ever thought of this?

And we're like, no? They said, let's try it. And we'll have whole, like, we have staff and departments and programs based on ideas that just some of our volunteers came up with and stepped out and tried. So it's creating that kind of an environment is something I always want to challenge everyone in our organization to do. Man, I love that. You know, my question

to piggyback that is, I mean, what do you just tell a follower who doesn't have you as a leader? What do you tell a follower who's stuck with, let's say a mediocre leader. I only got to call him a bad leader, but if there's a follower stuck with a mediocre leader,

what would be your advice to me? Yeah, I've got, I think everyone every one of us have a list. At some point in our life, you get to a certain age when you have a list of people you work on there that you're like, oh, dear God. That, wow. And the first thing, the first thing I'd say is this.

Leading is really, really hard. So give grace. Yes, right. And then the other thing I'd say is to start taking notes on all the things that that leader you're under does that deflate you, that demotivate you, that steal incentive. because really, if you might be leading the same way

if you don't take initiative to not lead that way. And you might have some of those same bad habits, right? And so, you know, that phrase, we often judge what we are to become. So if you're judging the leader above you, be really careful. You're writing this stuff down and saying, okay, this is a bad habit that I need to make sure I'm not doing.

And that's going to really refine you. Yeah. So sometimes a bad leader is a gift because they're showing you what not to do as much as a good leader shows you what to do. Say that one more time. Say it one more time, Brian. Say it one more time. Yeah, sometimes a bad leader is just as helpful as a good leader

because they show you what not to do just as much as a good leader shows you what to do. So you can learn just as much from either one. And then the last thing I'd say is take it as a challenge to see, can you succeed in spite of who you report to? And people will notice that. Like I was under a really poor leader once, and I took it as a challenge. I was like, I'm going to make everything I do just incredible in spite of him. And this guy's, I mean, it was crazy.

But anyways, I eventually had, I told the head of the organization, I can't work for this guy anymore, I'm going to have to leave. And the head of the organization actually fired my boss and gave me my boss's job because he took notice. And so just know that people are watching. And I said, I'm going to. leave and my boss's boss said no no no he's going to leave in your stand so that that's a just say what what can i how can i succeed in spite of those above me that was amazing like you you you might need to write a book on what you just said because that that that is i mean that's at the

heart of everything we're trying to you know communicate through the fellowship resources and all that we're doing, man. That's absolutely incredible, man. In your opinion, what makes a follower indispensable? Like, who in your organization would you never fire and why? And I say never. Obviously, there's extenuating circumstances, but who's your MVP and what makes them so valuable? Yeah, so two things. I'll say, first of it is someone that I can get out of their

way. And Stephen Samples are my favorite leaders. And he said the top leader's job is to get the very best people of the world. And then basically you work for them. You get out of their way. You just resource them. You motivate them. You point them in the right direction. And you get out of their way. And give them the encouragement that they need and the culture they need and the resources they need. And then you work for, so you're kind of working for them and you get out of their way. And for me, I'm looking for someone that's just so in line with our culture. but still such an incredible leader that I can get out of their way. And I know that some of the best leaders I've ever seen,

the thing they hate the most is a micromanager. So for me, I'm looking for someone that's got enough internal engine that I don't have to motivate them. I just get out of their way and resource them and work for them. So that's the first thing. And then the second one is, and this is kind of that old golden rule idea. When I'm looking at one of our top leaders, I ask myself what I want to work for them.

If I was their employee, would they get the best out of me? And so that's something I'm asking when I'm looking at, you know, one of our top leaders or some of the people that are indispensable is, hey, could I see myself working for that person? Can they pull the best out of me and get me to where I need to go and energize me? And if they can do that for me, they'll do that for their teams. I love it, man. Well, Dee, you've given an incredible insight today, man.

Last question is, and how can people connect with you in Venture, man? What can, how can people get involved? Yeah. Well, venture.org has everything from, you know, the videos of what we're about, ways to partner with businesses so that customers can connect tangible good to every sale. We have that app that's telling you about from the App Store, the Venture Miles app that you can use to rally your community

and do a miles-based challenge to raise money, to, again, help stop human trafficking, help war refugees, and stop child soldiering, and these types of things around the world. So we'd love to connect. And again, our whole mentality is, just like the companies that I was talking about, is you have a dream. How can we resource you and empower you? And so we're going to create tools for you to do that. We have crazy folks. Like one guy's like, that's my 30th birthday. I'm going to get 30 friends to run 30 miles on my 30th birthday. And it raised $10,000 the first time, and he's like, well, I'm going to keep doing this. And now he's raised over $300,000 and helped.

And every thousand dollars can care for a girl that's pulled out of trafficking for one year. So he's, you know, 300 girls have an incredibly new life just by stepping out with a birthday idea. And we come alongside and say, okay, we'll give you the tools. Here's the roadmap. Here's how to plan it. And there's all kinds of folks that just come up with these ideas. And we come alongside and say, hey, what's your dream? How can we make it happen for you?

So venture.org is the way to start, and you can get connected to us there. We'd love it. Yes, you did it. You completed episode one, a followership with Ryan Lee. Congratulations. I'm proud of you. Hey, here's a deal. Thank you so much for taking the time on your day to listen to this podcast.

If you found today's podcast to be helpful, here's what I'm going to ask you to do. I'm going to share it with a friend. I want you to text them right now. I want you to email them, DM them, whatever you want to do. You tell them, hey, there's this podcast that added value to my life, and I think it'll add value to yours as well. The second thing I'm going to ask you to do is I'm going to ask you to rate and review followership with Ryan Lee.

Five stars is preferred. I'm not going to lie. Five stars is preferred. But listen, I don't want you to lie. I'm not asking you to do that. Okay, but it'd be great. If you could rate and review, it would be excellent. And lastly, I would love for you to subscribe so that you don't miss any episode.

And guess what? You're not going to want to miss episode two. I'll be interviewing the former CEO of SeaWorld. We're going to be talking about followership. Until then, have a great day.