The Ryan Leak Podcast - Processing Panic Attacks with Laura VandeBerg

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

For this episode, Ryan sat down with executive coach and sports broadcaster, Laura VandeBerg to have an honest conversation about anxiety, panic attacks, and parenting. To connect with Ryan or Laura for coaching, check out ryanleak.com.

What's going on, everybody? I am so glad to have my good friend Laura Vanderberg here on followership with Ryan Lee. And Laura, I want you to tell our listeners, you've had a very interesting job for all of our sports geeks that are listening. I want you to tell us about your journey in the sports world and then what you're transitioning into. next. Yes, absolutely. Ryan, first of all, thank you so much for having me on to. This is so exciting. I'm so pumped to be here. Big fan of all your work, social media, the book, all the things. This is great. Yes, yes. But yeah, let's start from the beginning. I might be, and I'm not going to say this with confidence, but I will say I might be one of the only sports broadcasters that didn't play sports

in high school. Is that right? Interesting. I didn't play a single sport in high school. I mean, I was a cheerleader. Okay. So if you want to count that as a sport, I would appreciate it. But a lot of people are.

I will count that as a sport. I personally, I don't know how the world feels, but I'm with you. That's great. When did you decide to get into broadcasting? Like, when was that moment that you said, all right, I want to do this? So that would have been my junior year. of college. So it took me a little while, but in hindsight, my entire childhood, I would take my parents like VCR recorder. I don't even know what it's called anymore. Take that and I would like

accidentally tape over a lot of home videos, get into a lot of trouble. But I had this, this show. It was called 10 squared and I would make my friends be on it. And it was 10 stories at 10 o'clock at night. And it was like a, it was like a news cast thing that I put together. I would, I'd take a blank, yeah, take a blanket, throw it over my parents' piano bench, and then I had a little sign that said 10 square. And I just had this, like, love and kind of like infaturation with the news when I was a kid, which is like so weird, because now we see it as like just really negative and kind of sad. But back then, I feel like it was fun. And so I've always kind of had this love of being on camera, talking in front of people, putting on a show, I guess, you know. And so it started when back when.

But then when I knew I wanted to get into sports was, you know, I mentioned I was a cheerleader. I loved being down near the action. I understood all the sports, kind of studied them as much as I possibly could because a lot of the people around me didn't really know what was going on. So I was like, okay, guys, now we're on offense. Okay, so everything we're doing the offense here, right? Yeah. And then, yeah, I got into college.

I cheered in college for a year at the University of Iowa and then realized like, okay, this is taking a lot of my time. And now I need to figure out what I want to. to do it the rest of my life and go do that. So quit cheerleading junior year of college and decided I wanted to pursue sports journalism. Thought I was going to write at first and then got into the TV side and it all just kind of happened from there, I guess. And so you've been the voice, if you will. I don't know. Is that too extreme to call you the voice of the University of Iowa for a while? I mean, it seems like I don't I don't know how to disqual.

describe it accurately and I don't want to overdo it. So, so, so you, but you've done it for almost a decade now. And so what would you, you would say you have been the, the host of Hawkeye Sports. Yes. The host of Hawkeye Sports, which Hawkeye Nation, I got my first taste of Hawkeye Nation. I went to the women's championship game with Jordan Montgomery, which is how we even know each other. And Hawkeye Nation is no joke. It's wild.

It is an incredible. It is. And again, I live in Texas where I thought fandom, Texas football, but like Iowa, I've, I've been there a couple of times over the last year. It is, it is wild. And you have been in the center of that on all sports. Is that correct? Yep. Yeah.

All 20, now 20 sports. Yeah. Yep. All 20. I didn't know they have 20 sports. Yeah, they've got quite a few teams. Yeah. So most of what I do has to do with the football team, basketball, wrestling, volleyball, gymnastics.

And I think that covers everything. Yeah. Wow. So give us behind the scenes, what's that schedule like? It sounds insane. It's a lot. I kind of go like, it's kind of like a teacher's schedule. So my spring and my summer is super light, which is great.

And then I've got from about right now, until March-ish is just crazy. It is a lot of nights and weekends, a lot of long hours on those nights and weekends, which is a nice trade-off because then I've got my weekdays and my daytime with my kids. And so that's a plus side of it,

but it definitely, it's a really different work schedule, that's for sure. Yeah. Wow. And now you are making a little bit of a transition. I say a little bit. It's actually a lot of bit of a transition. into more speaking.

So are you completely taking off from broadcasting and just speaking? I'm not, not quite yet. Okay. Yeah, you were right in the word transition. I'm definitely a person that I can't just stop doing something and say, well, we'll just see what God has planned for me. There are people like that. Sure.

And unfortunately, I am not that type of person. Yes. And so I kind of have to have as much as control, as much of control as I can possibly have whatever comes next, right, for me to feel mental pain. And so, so yeah,

I'm still this year going to be with the Hawkeyes and doing all of their sports and things. But then eventually, I'm going to make the full transition and just get into corporate speaking, you know, traveling to speak. I would love to stay local too, of course, because I love our community.

But, yeah, eventually going to, that'll be my full time here the future. And really that was just, you know, a lot of it was because I had kids, right? I mean, I've got two kids at home and I'm like, okay, this is, this is a crazy schedule, half of my year. I need to be home for dinners. I need to be home for bedtimes. And I need to find something that is going to fuel my passion and what I feel is my purpose of being out in front of people, you know, speaking to people and about more than just Hawkeye's sports, right? Sure. And kind of using those gifts in town since God's given me and say, okay,

what can I do with this? And then that's where you came in and Jordan Montgomery came in. You mentioned him and kind of got on board with Montgomery companies and kind of trying to make this smooth transition. And like I said, kind of control what I can control in a way. You know, how do you, how do you do what you do with two children under the age of three? So you got a three month old, which are you, are you sleeping? is how you're not sleep or how many hours of sleep are you going on on this recording right now that's a great question i'm going to be completely honest with you i don't look at the clock at night

i refuse to do it you you can't because it starts to mess with you exactly so i don't know i just know i wake up tired and i go to bed tired that's pretty much so for our listeners so this this is this is followership these are people that are are working on teams, trying to navigate a bunch of stuff. And I just, my heart breaks for the working parent, specifically the working mom, because of just the societal expectations that are on working mothers. And so there is, on one side of it, there is this expectation to produce at the same rate as male counterparts, the pressure to have your kids hygiene to be at a very high level,

their health, they're great. At the same time, there is a pressure to look good while doing it and to stay in shape and to eat healthy yourself. And so I think there's a lot of society's of pressure going on everywhere. But typically when I sit down or get to be in front of working mothers, my heart breaks just a little bit more just for their pressure. And I would imagine for you, you know, I just think your average working mom feels like a little pressure to carry an image into the workplace.

You're on camera. you got to be TV ready which is a whole another level of pressure and not just look a certain way but also like you have to be on like no um you got like

you like the level of onness that you must have to do what you do and then to go home and be a mom and be a wife how does Laura do it all and what would you encourage anybody that's listening to this right now that feels like they have a lot of pressure? How would you help them? Yeah. See, this is something that I've been juggling with a lot right now in this very specific season. I'm so glad that you asked that question because like, I mean, you mentioned all of the

societal pressures, all the pressures that you put on yourself. I mean, it's all amplified in your mind. So whatever everyone else is telling you, you have to be this, you need to look this way. I already got that. It's already in here, right? I don't need any more of that, but it's there. And so it just adds that whole other level, right? And the reality of all of it is you can't have it all. And I think I really went into motherhood and being a wife and all of these things.

I've got this amazing support system in my husband, my family. They're all very close in proximity and then close in relationship as well. And I'm like, yeah, I can do this all. I can have it all. I've got the support system. I've got this, right? And I've got the talents. I got this. Right. I'm going to be completely honest with you. Just about three weeks ago, I had a breaking point. And this is this podcast is coming in. It actually a really good point in my life too to just kind of air this out right. And just to kind of discuss this because my biggest thing was I'm not going to hide from this. What just happened to me. And I'm not going to not put it out there or talk to people about it because one, it's going to make it worse. And two, I'm not the only one. So you mentioned the pressure of being the mom, right? Now I've got another kid that I'm taking care of. Being a wife, I'm going to get into this like crazy busy season of my life. My husband's in a crazy busy season of his work life as well.

And my family's got their stuff going on too. So at a time, like at that time, like I said, a couple weeks ago, I felt super alone. I was in my head. I was putting pressure on myself to make my body look a certain way after I had a baby. All these things are just kind of whizzing. And I mean, they were just whirling in my head. And I was just stuck. It was like this feeling of I don't know where I am right now.

Like I'm looking around the room and I'm like, okay, there's my kid and there's this. And I had a panic attack first one I've ever had in my life. Wow. And it was terrifying. Anybody that's ever had that happen to them, I'm sure they can relate. It was like my heart's beating out of my chest. My hands are tingling. I'm numb.

I'm like, what am I having a stroke? What is happening? So I go into the hospital. Wow. The doctor says to me, he kind of looks at me and he can probably tell you're perfectly healthy, right? Like, woman, you look great. In terms of like, I don't look sick, but in my head, I feel sick. Okay.

I do not feel well. And he looks at me and he goes, so what do you got going on in your life? And I was like, who is this man? That's not normally what a doctor would say. They would say, what are your symptoms? But he looks at me and he says, what do you have going on? And I'm telling him, well, I'm a new baby. And, you know, I'm getting back to work, all these things.

And he goes, well, you know, what we need to find out is, are you stressed because you're sick? Or are you sick because you're stressed? And I was like, wow. Yeah. And I was like, yeah. And in that moment, I was like, I think I'm sick because I'm stressed. And he's like, he's like, for peace of mind, we are going to run some testing, you know, all the things just to make sure you are okay. And I was fine and everything was great physically.

But he sends me home and he's like, you know, here's some people to tell you. to and he's like, but yeah, I think you're sick because you're stressed. I'm like, okay. I could. And so, yeah, on the surface, it's like, yeah, everything looks really good. You look like you got it together. Things are happening for you. You're making this transition and got two kids, a beautiful family and the support system.

And still, it was like I just couldn't figure it out. And I had to step back and say, I got to let go with the pressure. I have to let go because I can't do it all. I can't have it all and I need help. Right. And that is, as a mom, is extremely hard to admit. Because I look around it at my mom, right, totally different generation. And my dad traveled for work.

And I say, well, she did it. And she had three kids. Why can't I do this? Why can't I do this without falling, falling, right? Like I'm constantly tripping over myself and wishing I was doing better and wishing I had this or did this or go to bed at night feeling guilty because I snapped at the kids or whatever it is. Like, why can't I do what somebody else has done or what someone else is doing right now? And I was like, I just got stuck in this, like a hamster wheel, right? And I'm like, I got to stop.

I got to let go. One, I got to let go and control because like I said, I try to control what I can control. And sometimes that's just too much. And I got to let God in and say, you got this. And so yeah, it was, it's been kind of a crazy past few weeks. And I'm so glad that I got to share this with you. And I am doing better now. But it's a constant battle of there are times when you have to just let go and say, look, I can't do this. You have to say no to some opportunities or things that come up.

And you just have to slow down, slow down. You know, it's a rat race. Everything feels like a rat race, right? And as a mom, you're like, like you mentioned, trying to keep up with the girl boss thing. And, you know, you can handle this, but you can also look good doing it. And by the way, did you bounce back and did you lose all that baby weight? And I mean, it's just a lot. And that mounting pressure, you're going to snap.

I can tell you that right now of experience. And I sit here smiling through it, right? But yeah, it was quite a bit. So I guess my thing was I learned very quickly and kind of a harsh way. I think it was God's way of saying like, you have to stop and snapped me out of it, right? This idea that I have to do it all. And yeah, I don't know what I don't have like a quote to give you. I don't have any kind of like women, this is what you should do to get yourself out of this.

You got to have a panic attack. That's what you got to do right now. I don't have anything. I have no words of advice. And that's the question I have for you. If I, first off, thank you for sharing that. I really, really appreciate that. And I'm sorry, I'm sorry that you've had to go through that.

And at the same time, even for your last few statements, almost grateful that you've gone through it, that you're, for the most part, on the other side of it. If, if you could, I can't tell you how many people as of late I've talked to you that have. that have ended up in the hospital from a panic attack. And it's an interesting thing to me of going, something is happening, I think, societally, that's putting pressure on all of us that I'm, I don't want to, I don't have data. I don't want to say at an alarming rate,

but I just, I feel like I've been hearing that more and more that gives me cause for concern for, I think us as an entire society. if you could talk to yourself six months ago. You get to go back to six months ago you. I'm just imagining that there's somebody listening right now that is on the verge of a panic attack.

What would you say to that person? That's a great question. I think I would say slow down. I would say two days. I'd say slow down. and I would say let people help you. I think there's this idea that you're weak if you accept help and that's kind of how I felt

in that way of why can't I do this? I don't need help. I can. I know I can. I can be better. I can be more. But it just doesn't have to be that way. You can accept help. And sometimes you just can't do it all.

Like I said. Then the other part of that is the slowdown part. I think I catch myself, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this, I catch myself not enjoying what I'm doing now because I'm thinking about what I'm doing in a couple of days, or what's coming up in three months, or how I have to be back to work at a certain point in time after I just had a baby, right? And so it's like, I can't enjoy this because I'm thinking about this, and that's kind of like looming over me. And so then you get in this like hurry state where it's like, okay, I got to hurry up and I got to be this and I got to do this before I get to this point.

so then I'm as prepared for this point as I can possibly be. And so then I get lost in the present where I'm also doing nine million things, right, keeping two kids alive and making things to my husband and keeping the house nice and trying to get myself back together and all of the other things that are happening outside of the house. And so I would just say, slow down. It's a day by day thing, no matter what point you are in your life, whether you just had a baby, whether you're pregnant, whether you're none of those things. You're just trying to get through your life of just being a working single dude.

I don't know. But it's like you just have to slow down. Take everything day by day. And I know it's so cliche and it's so hard to just enjoy the present. Right. But it's like all of that stuff can wait. Try to just focus on what's happening right now because whatever you're doing right now, it is going to prepare you for what's to come.

And what's to come is just tomorrow. Right. It's like just do what you're doing right now. just to prepare you for tomorrow. Let's not think about three months from now at this point. So I think those are the two things I would say, slow down and let people help you. Wow. Now, that's what you would say to six months ago, you or someone that perhaps is on the verge of a panic attack,

which I think is stellar what you just shared. Now I'm curious what you would say to somebody that has already had. a panic attack, somebody that is on the other side of it, but they might be struggling with viewing that panic attack as a knock against them for future development or future opportunities. They may look at that event and say, see, I told you I can't do this. How have you navigated? And again, now we're in real time because you're currently doing this. but what would you encourage i just i just want you to imagine a room full of a hundred people right now

that of all the only thing they haven't come is that they've had a panic attack and they just feel like giving up like i just i i don't know if i can bounce back from this it's almost being used against themselves for for future opportunities what would you encourage that person with yeah i can tell you my mindset That was exactly that. And it was about that for a week. Very vividly, I remember just a couple days after. I have the best husband in the world, by the way.

He is so loving and so caring and nurturing. And so he really took care of me in that week following. And I just remember I was laying in my bed and I've got our newborn. She was about two and a half months old at that point. And I'm sobbing. And I was like, I don't think I'm ever going to be myself again. I don't know if I'm ever going to be. I said, I think this is just me.

now. And he was just very, yeah, right? Like, it's heavy. It's really heavy. And it was. It was heavy. It was, I felt heavy everywhere. Um, and he just listened. He didn't really say a whole lot. I think it was, he just knew that I didn't need advice at that moment. I just needed a shoulder. So, um, I would say it took me about a week, which is pretty quick. Um, but after that, I said, I'm not going to be that anymore. I'm not, I will not, I will not, let that be me and I will never let that happen to me. So I went through this phase two in that week where I was like, what if it happens again? What if that happens again to me? What if I get stuck on that hamster wheel? What if I snap again? That was so scary. It was this. It was that. And then I said,

who did that? No one did that to me. I did that to myself. So how am I going to avoid that? I'm going to avoid that. And so I'm going to control what I do and what happens to me from here on out. And so that won't be me anymore. I won't be that person and that won't happen to me again. And so that's kind of where my mindset shifted. And I took that into like my workouts, right? And I was like, you're doing this to make yourself stronger physically, but also stronger mentally so that you are never that weak, weaker version of yourself. Because at that moment, I did feel very weak. I felt very fragile. It felt very vulnerable. And I hated that feeling. And I was like, it can't be me because I have two kids. kids to take care of, but also it won't be me because I won't let it happen. And so that's how I would

encourage somebody is to say, you can either choose for that to dictate the rest of your life on who you are and who you become, or you can say, that was me and it will not be me anymore and it won't be me in the future. Wow. I have a, it may be a difficult question. I think it's a difficult question, but I have a sinking suspicion you're going to have a profound answer to this difficult question. How does somebody... I feel pressure right now. You feel pressure? A little bit of profound answer.

I don't know. How does somebody ask for help? I find it difficult. There is, again, there's this proverbial rule or ideology, notion, whatever word you want to use,

there's this thing in the air that we can't fully quantify that says, people will think a, little bit more highly of you if you didn't need help. I did, I did this all by myself. I got this. Is this, it's almost like you'll be admired more for not needing help until this idea, oh, you needed help. It's almost like, oh, this sign of weakness. It's like, no, it's a sign of that you know how to communicate your needs, you moron, like stop being done. but I think people know that they need help,

but they don't always know how to communicate that to their spouse. They don't always know how to communicate that to their community. Who can I trust with this? Because it's kind of a vulnerable position. And so in your estimation, how do you think someone should go about asking for help? And maybe, maybe, and I don't want to get too deep into your marriage or how that worked with your husband in communicating some of those needs.

But how does someone ask for help? Well, first of all, I'll say there's a lot of truth to that feeling of, and I think I kind of alluded to that earlier where I said, well, my mom did it with three kids. Why can't I do it with two? And I don't need to ask for help because she did it. And so I should be able to do it too. And so there is a lot of truth in that.

And so I would say how I asked for help came after the panic attack, right? It was like it all mounted everything. It was like I couldn't ask for help. I got this. I'm fine. My husband had come home from work late at night and I'd say, no, I'm good. Everything was fine today. And he's like, I can tell something's off.

No, I'm good. I'm good. And everything was okay. And in my head, I'm like, I'm not, I'm not okay. But I'm also not okay with telling you and I'm not okay with asking for help. And so it was pretty much ever since my daughter was born. And so I did about two and a half months of that feeling of, no, I can do this, no, I can do this, no, I can do this. And then that's when it snapped.

And when I think back, I'm like, if I would have just sat back and said, I need help, but what do I need help with? I think that's one of the biggest things is like, how do I ask for help when I don't even know what I need help with? Because if I told you all the things that I could, you know, use some help with, it would be a list of mile long. I'd have a notebook, you know, full of things I could use help with. And so I think one of the biggest things is like, what's bothering me most or what do I need the most help with right now? And try to find that thing. Like, try to find the fact in all of it. I'm feeling really anxious right now.

And what's the thing that's making me anxious? Oh, it's blank. Okay. So what's the fact in that on how somebody could physically help me? Right. So find like the truth in what's making you overwhelmed. What's making you anxious? Like find the root cause.

and then ask somebody, you know what, I got laundry piled up all the way up to the top of my washing machine, outside of the washing machine, and it's all clean. I can't fold it because I'm all the time. Can you just take my two-year-old so that I can do this laundry? And just to take that little thing off of you, right? Like, the truth was, every time I walked by that laundry room, it was driving me crazy. And it was just adding another piece of anxiety to me or nervousness or feeling of overwhelm, right? And so like if I would have just sat down and found like a truth or a fact of what was causing that overwhelm and just asked for help in the smallest of ways.

And I wouldn't have felt like, I don't think I would have felt ashamed to say, dude, I need some help with my laundry to my mom. But it was like there was just so much that I didn't even take the time to say, oh, this is the thing that I actually need help with. It just felt like I need help with everything in my life. I can't possibly ask someone to help me, right, with all of this stuff. And so I'm just not going to. I got it. It's fine. And I think a lot of us get caught in that like, oh, nobody else could handle this anyway. I'll just do it myself. Or it's going to take way more work for me to ask for help and tell somebody what I need help with than if I just did it on my own. And then we get caught up in the overwhelm and the I'm doing this all by myself. And it's like a pride thing like we already mentioned.

But but it just it all catches up to you eventually. I shouldn't say that as a fact, but like it caught up to me eventually. And I think it does for a lot of people too. And it's like if I just. would have slowed down, like I mentioned, and said, okay, I do need help. And here's one thing that could really help me. I really think it's just finding, finding like a truth, like the thing that's just at the root of what's really causing all of it. And then figure out who can help you in that way. I don't know if that was profound.

It was profound. Because it's what's so interesting to me. And this is my last question for you. It's interesting because your whole career, you've had to have the utmost confidence to do what you do every single year, every single season for 20 sports. And so you've got this core subject of confidence that you can speak on in corporate America. But what's interesting is your journey has vulnerability written all over. And so where do those two collide? How do you need both to be successful?

Because I think there's something interesting about confidence in specifically the American workforce, this idea that I can go and approach someone. I can go and pitch an idea. I can go and apply for the job. I feel qualified to do so. I'm not afraid to. It's weird. Like not being afraid to ask for help.

You need confidence. and a little bit of vulnerability of going, hey, there's some things I am qualified to do that I can do. So how do you help people navigate that in terms of speaking to a broad audience? Now I want you to imagine there's a thousand people in the room and you're trying to help them have the confidence to go and be successful and at the same time be authentically themselves. Yeah, I think there's what you said there was genius actually, the collision of vulnerability and confidence. That is exactly it. It's like that is the key.

Okay. So just as a little like insight into what football season looks like for me. So our stadium holds 70,000 people. And on all of our home games on Saturdays, I'm always right down there in the center of the field during timeouts, interviewing people, talking to fans, whatever it might be, doing some like sponsorship elements. And so I really got to be on my confidence game. In order for me to stand in front of 70,000 people and deliver a message and do it in

confidence, I got to be in here in my head of, I got this. It's no big deal. But also at home, I just had a massive freak out. And I was like almost throwing up in the bathroom up in the press box, right? Because I'm so dang nervous to stand out in front of all these people. And so it's that collision of like, I know, I know that I'm nervous, but I also know that I can do this because and I'm nervous because I care, right? Because I care that I do a good job. And so when I think about confidence, I think about like three main things. This is something I spoke going a lot about. Sure.

And a lot of it has to do with these three main things. It's who I am, what I'm doing, and where I'm going. Okay. So who you are thinking about that. So this is like a mental thing, like kind of like a mental exercise you can put yourself through before you've got something big coming up. So reminding yourself of who you are. Like who am I?

What am I about that nobody else is about potentially? Right. Like I'm kind. I'm respectful. I treat people with respect no matter who you are, the janitor. that I just walked by, the security guy that I just walked by, you know, whatever it might be, or the star alumni guy of the Hawkeyes that I'm going to talk to on the sideline. Like, whoever it might be, I'm going to be respectful to you.

So that's one thing I know about myself. Okay. So then you can go down the list of like, I know that I am these things and these things about me are good. Okay? So that's the first thing. Who are you? The next thing is, I think I misspoke here in the beginning, but the next thing is, what are you doing? So what are you doing on a daily basis, preparing yourself for what you're doing right now?

right so so what am i doing on a daily basis that gets me ready for this like i'm going through my scripts i'm making sure i'm on point i'm doing my research about the guy that i'm interviewing um and also like i'm carrying myself well like all these things that you're actively doing okay and then it's like where am i going okay so where am i going when i when i think about what i'm doing right now okay so i've got to get confident to step out in front of 70 000 people in order to hopefully someday speak in front of 100 000 people on on a stage in front of right like corporate America or whatever it might be at google or youtube or whatever and so i know all these things about myself who i am what i'm doing and where

i'm going combine all of that together okay i know all these things about myself and so i can step out here because i know that that i am a good person i know that i'm working hard and i know that i'm preparing myself for the future and i've got somewhere that i'm headed right and so those are my three main things it's like that mental exercise and it's not just like okay i'm going to go step out in front of all these people or I'm going to go pitch this big presentation in front of my boss or whatever. It's also like I feel confident in the fact that I can take my two year old to

the library because I know that I'm a good mom because I treat with him with respect. I know that I am practicing my patience every single day. So that's what I'm doing. And where am I going? I'm going to raise this kid to be the best dang young man that I can possibly raise him to be.

That's what I'm doing. That's where I'm going with him. Right? And so it's like, okay, I can put this kid in my his car and I can take him to the library by myself. I don't need no help with that. I got this, right? So that's kind of, it's that vulnerability of, I know where I've been. I've had that panic attack or, you know, whatever.

It might be that has been poor in the past, but I also know where I'm going and I know who I am and I know what I'm doing in order to get there. So it's really that like combination of those three things and the vulnerability that comes along with that too. I love it. Well, one, thank you so much for taking the time out of your mom and career schedule to be on followership with Ryan Lee, where can people connect with you next?

You can give us your Instagram, social media, website, where can people connect with you? Where can people book you to speak? I mean, I'm like already intrigued by your keynote that is forming even, not just what you've talked about in the past, but even just what you're going through. I just think it's going to add value to a lot of audiences. So where can people book you to speak? Where can people connect with Laura? Yeah.

So you can find me on Instagram at Laura Vandaberg underscore. I know the underscore is like less than ideal. I didn't. I'm not the only Laura Vandenberg out there, I guess. So at Laura Vandaburg underscore, find me on there, message me anytime. But then also to book me to speak, Montgomery Companies.com is where you can find that. Just go to speakers, scroll down to find my name, and you can request there. I would love to come to speak to whoever might have me.

That's awesome. And we'll have those links in the show notes as well. Laura, thank you so much once again for being on followership with Ryan Lee. My friends, if today's episode added value to your life as much as it did mine, feel free to share with a friend. Rate it five stars is preferred. And don't forget to subscribe. Laura, once again, thanks for being on followership with Ryan Lee.

Yeah, thank you, Ryan. I appreciate it.