The Ryan Leak Podcast - Recession Growth Mindset with Jonathan Angulo

Episode Date: February 13, 2023

This season we are interviewing people we think are next-level in light of Ryan's new book called Leveling Up: 12 Questions to Elevate your Personal and Professional Development. Today's guest is Jonathan Angulo. He represents one of the top mortgage lenders in the country and helps people navigate recessions personally and organizationally. In this episode, we will explore the concept of having a recession growth mindset and how it can help individuals and businesses navigate uncertain times. We will discuss strategies for developing a positive outlook and fostering resilience in the face of economic challenges. We will also examine the importance of financial planning, pivoting and embracing change, and learning new skills to remain competitive in a shifting job market. 

Welcome to Followership with Ryan Leak, podcast designed to help the other side of leadership. Lots of resources out there to help leaders. This is a resource to help people that are just joining a team and they're just, they're doing their best to follow. Over the past, a couple of episodes, I have been interviewing people that I think are next level at what they do. And I wrote a book called Leveling Up, 12 questions. to elevate your personal and professional development. And so one of the few people in my inner circle that I would consider to be next level

is my good friend Jonathan Angulo. Jonathan is a mortgage lender and I have sent so many of my family and friends to Jonathan. And I have just been so impressed with how he goes about his business. Now, 2022, it's no secret. that it's been a little bit of, was a little bit rough of a year for the housing industry as as a whole, well, the top of the year was phenomenal. And then, you know, things went a little

crazy. And so here we are in 2023. And I wanted to have Jonathan on the podcast to talk about what I believe he has, which is just a growth mindset. He's adapted with the time. and has utilized social media in a way to build his business. And so it's my honor and privilege to have Jonathan Angelo on the podcast. Jonathan, welcome to followership with Ryan Lee. Thank you, Ryan. I appreciate that. That was an incredible intro.

I'm just happy to be here. I am so thankful and honored that you would include me in this. Absolutely, man. You know, I think over the past, you know, we all can talk about the glory days, B.C., before COVID, you know, the great 2019 that no one appreciated because it was just, 2019 was a pretty regular year. I can't think of anything significant that really happened in 2019. It was just like, everybody's just like, okay, we're moving into another election year and we'll just kind of see what happens. And then a pandemic happened and so many different industries were impacted for the negative.

Some industries were impacted for the good. And so for, for, you, you've experienced the ups and downs of truly what is a pandemic. Tell us a little bit about your story and how you got into the mortgage industry. Oh, goodness. So I've been doing this since 2009. And I started fresh out of school. It was right after the last recession when everything tanked. So the semester before me, everybody graduated with jobs.

My semester, everybody was jobless. And so 40 of us from Northwestern College, Minnesota, from the business department, all ended up as temps at a big national bank. And I kid you not, one of my friends, he said, look, if we're here by September, we need to quit. This is rough. And he was gone two weeks later. He now works for Minnesota Twins. And I stayed in it. And slowly worked my way up, started as a processor, an underwriter, managed teams, and then went to the corporate side to sell corporate.

And one day, out of the blue, ended up with a phone call from somebody down here in Texas that asked me to come build their program down here. And so over the last seven years, built that from about $100 million, up to $600 million in volumes, signing different accounts. And now work specifically with buyers and real estate agents here in DFW. What's interesting is you're much smarter than I am because we both graduated at the same time. and I didn't realize that's why I didn't get the job that I got it. Like, as you're saying that, I'm like, so that's why Wells Fargo did. I was so mad at them for years. Now, I just forgave them.

Just how. Well, good. You know, there's healing in the process, right? That's crazy. I was like, oh, that, like, I didn't even, I didn't even think about it. It didn't even cross my mind. I mean, it was literally, I remember people come to our class. business classes talking about, okay, you're going to start off your first job making 60K,

which to me at that time was mind-blowing kind of money. Absolutely. And I'm thinking, okay, come May, graduate, boom, get my first check. I've made it. And then crickets. And everybody is thinking, none of us have jobs lined up. What are we doing? And so literally at graduation, this is, I can't even believe I'm telling you this.

At graduation, I leaned over to the girl next to me. I was like, hey, what are you doing after this? She's like, I'm starting his attempt next week at Wells Fargo. Can I do that too? She's like, yeah, this whole row is doing it. So we ended up there. And my thing, the way I was brought up is whatever you're going to do, do your best at it, learn it, and just know your craft.

And nobody wants to grow up to be a mortgage person. Most people don't. And so for me, it was, okay, how do I become great at this? Wow. Crazy. So give me mortgage industry, 2020. 2021, 2022. So in 2020, 2021, they were the glory days for mortgage.

It was a Black Swan event with COVID. And so while the world is in a pandemic and so many people are struggling, we were over here making money just to exist. Literally, people would call us and I'd say, how'd you get my contact info? And they said, I did a Google search and you were the first one that picked up the phone. We were so busy. you literally just had to exist to do well and be successful.

Meanwhile, families are losing their jobs, struggling to pay rent or pay their mortgages or buy groceries, and everybody's afraid. So it didn't take a lot. People were switching from car industries, from anything else, to come over and be a mortgage loan officer because you just had to exist, historically low interest rates. And so there's a system where you can look people up,

and people would literally look them up. And six months ago, they were walking dogs, and now they are helping you with your most expensive purchase of your life. You know, probably the first time you've ever done it. Probably the first time they've ever done it, honestly. And so it was incredible. I managed a team. We did incredible volume.

And then that all ran up through about March of 2022. And during COVID, you know, the Fed did a great job of keeping interest rates low to stimulate the economy, to help everybody. purchase homes and keep things going. Come April, they said, hang on a second. Things are out of control. We need to pump the brakes. And it's kind of like a hockey stick progression. If you look at a chart, interest rates have increased so fast that it blew everybody out of the market. And so now we've got people who entered the industry who've never been in it, who've never been through it, who have no background of how to gain business, how to grow, how to continue to foster relationships who are now thinking, what do I do? Do I need to go back to working at the dealership

or walking dogs or whatever they were doing before? And so it's kind of a, it's a shift in mentality. It's a shift in the way you run your business. And then from a consumer mindset, I feel for people because a lot of people wanted to wait. They were looking at homes last November and now they can no longer afford it. Or they started building a house in March. And then when they go to close in October, because interest rates increase so quickly, they no longer can afford the house that they've been building for the last 10 months. So we're navigating through a lot.

So lots of clients that I talk to are using this phrase, you know, recession. Recession is coming. Recession is coming. It's like, well, did it come? Did I? We don't get an Amber alert that says, hey, we're in a recession.

So when do people know? And secondly, what are you doing to sort of recession-proof your business? So, wow, that's loaded. So by a historical definition that has always existed, we are in one. We are. That's the definition, until recently,

has always been two quarters, two progressive quarters of negative GDP. And that's what we've had. That's what we've had. So technically, by July of this year, 2022, we were in a recession. Housing is a leading indicator of that. There was someone who, I believe it was the CEO of FedEx came out.

They had the single greatest day loss in the stock market. And he came out and he said, look, shipping is the leading indicator of a global recession. So if anybody produces anything, makes anything, sells anything, buys anything, they use us. He goes, and so their numbers came out. They had the single greatest day loss ever. He said, we are in a recession. We are in a global recession, not just the U.S., but a global recession at this point because of what's going on.

Now, if you listen to the news, we're not in a recession yet. But we're in a recession. But we're in a recession. From a housing perspective, you know, what does recession mean to me? It means high interest rates. It means not only on interest rates, but market goods are now more expensive. If you go to the grocery store, you feel that. You know, it doesn't go as far.

has been more expensive. Everything is more expensive because of inflation. And the Fed's way to curb inflation and prevent or stop recession is to increase rates until people stop buying, which is exactly what we're seeing. Wow. So what were some of the decisions that you've made over the last six months to continue to get better at what you do and to continue to put yourself in front of potential buyers. So this summer, I had the decision to make whether I was going to double down or get out. And a lot of people are getting out. Literally daily, companies, smaller companies are getting out. Companies themselves are getting out, but individuals are getting out. And myself, because I've done this or been in this industry since 2009, my option was double down. And so how do I double down? Well, I have to set myself,

apart in a few different ways. One, I had to double down on my knowledge. So that became studying industry trends, studying historical economics and what is actually happening so that I can effectively communicate that to clients who only know from the news what's going on. But they're not going to tell you. You know, the news will tell you that foreclosures are up 150%, which is true. But what they're not telling you is that for the last two years, there was a moratorium on foreclosures. And so nobody could, be foreclosed on anyway. So it's taking those numbers. So doubling down on my knowledge.

And then, too, I took to social media because how do I passively prospect clients and referral partners when I don't know who's in and who's out? And so I went to social media and I studied how to do it. It's kind of a bootleg process. Dude, you're crushing it, though.

You are crushing it. I'm trying. It's bootleg. But I've had a lot of people reach out to me and help me through that and coach me through that and how to do it. But every relationship that I have today has either come from a direct referral, from somebody that I've worked with, or from social media, where I have become that voice of trust, someone that they can count on,

someone that they can work with. And so it moves them from the bucket of, I've never heard you, to now I trust you and I want to work with you. And so that has been where the growth in my business has come from. I think that buying a house is a lot of work. It's intimidating. And I think some people are even afraid of it. And because there's no other purchase, no other individual purchase, at least,

that takes a fine-tooth comb through virtually every dollar you've ever spent in the past five years. And so that it is a very reveal. healing process that like I don't think a lot of people want to come to grips with. And so knowing what your eligibility is and your credit and so on and so forth. And I think that especially what you've been able to do for our family and friends. And we had our mortgages through Fairway, who you work for and have always just loved. I call Fairway the Nordstrom of the mortgage industry. Just your level of customer service,

you never make anybody feel dumb for asking a question, and you just, you hold the customer's hand, and you just do it at a very, very high level, which you're incredibly easy to recommend to family, to friends, to listeners here, today. I wonder for you over the next six months, what is it that you're thinking about in terms of getting better? There are people that are listening to this today that are in some industries

that are thriving. They're in some industries that are not. But they have to make the best of their situation. What are you going to be doing over the next six months to do just that? And that's good. So to back up first and comment on what you just said about the approach to business, mortgages are extremely difficult situations because you are getting invasive with somebody's most personal things that people probably don't think about. So what I tell everybody up front is, look, anything you've ever heard about it, forget about it because anyone's experience is not your experience.

There's 27 different things that affect your interest rate. your credit score is not your neighbor's score or your cousin's score or your mom's score. And if your mom bought 30 years ago, it's definitely not going to be the same. And so it is one of the most unique and personalized purchases or investments that you can make in your lifetime. And so the approach to that, especially over the last few years where it was literally just a commodity, where you can pull it off the shelf or go to a website and, you know, jump on a rocket and get it. It's different now. And so you have to come along and come along and come.

coach people through that. So what am I doing in 2023 moving forward? I'm doubling down on that educational piece and I want to take more toward social media and do some long form content. But also, it's investing in myself through additional coaching because I think coaching is the best investment we can make in ourselves. And it's the one where I can count on the returns because I'm the variable. Right. And so, you know, anything else, I put it in the stock market or cryptocurrency, it's just up for grabs and who knows what's going to happen to it. But if I invest in myself, it's going to get better. So the one concept that is really something that's important to me right now and that I'm working through is determining my worth, my value down to a per

hour basis. Because when you're fully commissioned, that's very difficult to nail down. And so I had a real hard look at myself and figured out, okay, what do I want to do in 2023 from a volume perspective from a income perspective from a giving perspective. And let's break that down to how many hours do I want to work. And that's the important part. It's not just how many hours are there available. It's how many do I want to work? Because my definition of success is going to be different than somebody else's. So I may say that's 30 hours a week. Might be 20. Who knows? Come on. And then break it down to what is my time worth? And so now from that lens, I look at everything I do. And I think, is that worth my time?

And if you think about it the wrong way, that can come off very... Oh, hey. Let's talk about it. You know, what is... Let's talk about it. What's the right word for it? I don't even know. Yeah.

It comes off as arrogant. Is that worth my time? If you say it that way, if you say that to somebody, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're in a service industry. It's like, yes, but let's look at this. It's like what other industry is like this. And this applies to any commission-based industry is you have to determine where your time is going to go

because if you don't, now your day is run by whatever hits you in the face. What are your thoughts? I mean, you've coached executives all over the world. I mean, you're killing it. You tell me, am I off on that? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, I think as my career has evolved and as things have grown, just more and more people want my time. I always thought if my wealth grew, people would ask me for money.

People ask me for time. I'm not, please, don't want to come asking for money. I'm not saying, but I'm amazed that the number one request that I get is, is for my time. And that is, that is my biggest challenge in life because, you know,

I've got two growing boys, marriage and, you know, friends that I barely get to see sometimes because of my, you know, busy schedule. You being one of them.

By the way, we live down the street from one another. We could have filmed this at each one of each other's houses, but that driving time is time. That is, Yeah, man, time is, time is incredibly valuable. And so as things progress, it is, I have often had very interesting social experiments. There are people who would never text me back or call me back,

but if my book hits the particular list, now they blowing me up. hey man, let's grab coffee. It's like, oh, well, hang out. You know, it's a, so some of, some of those things can get, can get challenging. So, but I do think, you know, I was on a coaching call earlier today with an executive where I just said, hey, man, what we got to do is we just have to write down our priorities. That's it. And that's, you know, it's, I only have so much margin to accomplish those priorities.

I heard a quote that was, you know, the lie is that we can manage. time, but time cannot be managed because there's only a finite amount of time. It's not like you can stretch it out. So the only thing you can manage is how you exist in time. Right. And so we have to protect that. And you, I mean, as you become more successful, you're killing it, by the way. Can we say that on the podcast? I don't know. You're killing. That book's incredible. But you mentioned some people ask you for your time. And you're thinking, like I do sometimes, can I just buy you whatever you actually need right now? Because I'd rather have the time because it's more valuable to me right now.

And we have to be selective of where we spend that time. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that regardless of where you might be in your organization or on your team, I think it is very important to understand the value of your time. I talk about that in leveling up in the chapter about your time. And scheduling and where all of our time goes. And it wasn't until I did what you talked about in measuring, man,

how much is an hour of my time worth? And when I saw how much it was worth, I went, man, I've given that away to some things. And I'm like, I don't know that that was worth my time. And that's no disrespect to call it Facebook. It's like, hey, I may have given Facebook an hour of my time. I'm like, I love Facebook, but not that.