The Ryan Leak Podcast - Should I stay or Should I go?

Episode Date: November 29, 2021

It can be hard to know if something should be a career or a hobby. So we dive into some tips that can help you in today's episode. Season 2 is us going through Ryan Leak's book Chasing Failure and giving insights on how followers can embrace risk-taking in their work environments. You can purchase Chasing Failure at ryanleak.com.

Welcome to Followership with Ryan Leak, a podcast designed to equip followers with the tools they need to succeed in the workplace. You might be following or working for a good, bad, or mediocre leader. But the good news is the type of leader you have does not have to determine the type of follower you can become. On this particular season of followership, we are going through a book I wrote called Chasing Failure, How Falling Short sets you up for Success. and we've been talking about how team members can really understand failure, how they can operate in the team and be able to take risk. Perhaps that would get fired, right? That would be a really great thing if we could pull that off.

So me and a team member of mine, Lacey, have been talking about this all season. And so I want you to check out this particular episode. Ryan, chapter four of your book is probably the catchiest of all. the titles. I think it's the one that definitely has gone a bit viral when people think about you or ask you to come speak. It's called Never Give Up-Up-ish. I'd love to really talk about this model that you built around the sweet spot because I think we could talk for hours just about kind of the different levers that are pulled to get us there. But can you first tell me how you you came to develop the sweet spot or what led to this great aha of how do you communicate this

framework because it really applies to stay at home moms, to employees, to your 20-year-olds, to really, you know, somebody who's on the last decade of professional life. So give us the backstory of how you came up with it, if you don't mind. Yeah. So, you know, I have a bunch of friends. You know, I noticed that whenever I would do this chasing failure message, you know, it would send people off to the racist to, man, I'm going to go for it. And I'm like, yeah, you should. And then it's like, well, how far? And how far do you take this? And I remember I was doing a Q&A one day.

One guy goes, so you think I should get a second mortgage for my dream? And I said, no. I think you should do some more homework. And I think you should take the next step and do the smart thing. And at some point, I know people that have taken out a second mortgage for their dream and it's worked out. I know people that have also done that and it didn't. And so you want to do a lot of homework before you go all in. Right.

Well, then that led to the next question of, well, when do I get out? Because, you know, as a motivational speaker, of course, I'm supposed to tell everybody to never give up. But that's somewhat irresponsible if you think about it, to tell a room, let's say there's a thousand leaders in a room, never give up. It's like, well, there should be some wisdom along with bravery, and courage, and inspiration. Like, you should actually do a smart thing. And so sometimes it's stepping back and sort of emotionally detaching ourselves from our goals and aspirations to say, okay, am I,

well, why am I doing this in the first place? Like, am I trying to prove. something to somebody? Is this something I even want to do? In fact, I actually think it's pretty wise to know when you should give up.

In fact, if you were to rewind the tapes on my career, the mile markers that I would consider like that was the moment that I was able to level up in some way, shape, or form, it was actually when I gave up.

on stuff. It was when I let go of something so that I could grab on to something else. It was when I stopped doing certain things and started giving energy to things that I felt like were in what I believed to be my sweet spot. I used to own an animation company called Park Bench Pro. And we were making all of these like explainer videos for companies all around the country. And it was great money. I just, it wasn't my particular sweet spot.

I think we did some great work for some great clients. But I couldn't spend time creating the type of content that I felt like I wanted to add value to in the world. So letting go of that, giving up on that was, it was a slow. I, I, I did it very slowly while I transitioned into something else. So I just stopped pursuing new clients. And slowly but surely I started farming out the work to other animators and video production houses that I trusted. But that launched me into being able to do something else because I was able to give energy to it. So I think the heart behind it was helping people discover, well, when should I put the brain?

brakes on, when should I press the gas and being able to kind of read themselves a little bit of going, okay, what's some framework that I could kind of use to know whether or not I should move forward, pause, is it a green light, yellow light, red light? And that's when I came up with the sweet spot major. Yeah, that's awesome. That's good. What I love about that story is I think when we hear you've got to give up some things to be great at other things, we immediately think about the things we're really bad at, right? The things that are easy, easy to give up. So I love that your story is, you know,

what's hard is giving up the things that you're okay at or that seem to be working. And I want to talk about the sweet spot matrix because you could almost isolate passion, opportunity, skill set, purpose as really being maybe the main thing to keep, or to prevent people from giving up something. If you feel you're really good at something in the skill set space, but you're lacking purpose, opportunity, or passion, are you really in the sweet spot? So it's such good framework.

So maybe the first question is, and it's always hard to talk about models or diagrams when we don't have them in front of us. But what I love about this is it doesn't actually matter, the order in which we think about finding kind of the sweet spot. So I guess pick a lever and let's talk about which direction you want to go through. Yeah, so I think to help people understand the sweet spot matrix is these are four areas that I think are very important to help people determine a sweet spot. Now, let's say you don't check all four boxes.

It doesn't mean you're in a bad spot. It just may not be a sweet spot. So the four things that you'll find in the sweet spot matrix is number one, passion. What do you want to do? What do you want to do? I know a lot of people in organizations, they're doing a job, but they don't know what they actually want to do. Some people actually know exactly what they don't want to do. they can give you a dissertation

on what they don't want to do but have zero clue what they actually want to do. So that's a big deal to really understand what are the things that I'm that I'm passionate about that I get energy from,

that I don't need coffee to pull off Like this is just something I'm extremely passionate about. The second piece, or the second box, if you will, is skill set. Are you good at what you are passionate about? Because you can love singing and not have the skill set to actually sing. Passion is verified by your own. you, skill set is often verified by others, particularly someone that isn't related to you, particularly someone that didn't bring you to the planet.

Like mom, unfortunately, doesn't count. My mother is awesome, okay? Yeah. She is my biggest fan. She thinks my messages are the greatest. I mean, she, which is awesome. I truly receive her encouragement, but I don't receive it as this is how the world sees me. Okay?

This is how mom sees me. Okay, she's very proud, love mom. That's great. But unfortunately, in this exercise, she doesn't get a vote because she is biased. She brought me here. She should think I'm awesome. Like, that's part of the deal. So I think it's very important that we pay.

pay attention to what other people have noted as, you know, this is a skill set you have. You think about the you should. Oh, man, you should totally. How many times have I told you, Lacey, Lacey, you should write a book. You should write a book. You're like, I ain't writing a book. I'm not writing a book. I'm behind the same thing.

I'm like, Lacey, you should write. You should pay attention to the you shoulds. Yeah. You shoulds. What are the you shoulds that you've heard? you know, over the course of your life. Those are particularly some of the things that you would, you know, have a, have a skill set to do.

I have friends that, hey, I'm going to start a conference and this to that. And I'm like, well, why? Right. What's the conference about? What's the conference about? Well, I just want to start. Okay, I hear some passion. Skill set?

Is that something you want to be good at? And again, just like, you know, I think it's not just determining where you are, but it's also determining where you want to go. So you might be passionate about something. And that's cool. But are you getting better at it? There is nothing I do, writing, speaking, content, where I feel like an expert or where I feel like I've arrived.

every single day I am trying to work on this area I'm on every single day I'm trying to become a better writer every single day I'm trying to become a better speaker I'm constantly trying to learn so I think it's better to err on that side of things than to say I've arrived

I'm a good singer I've arrived I'm a good designer I've arrived I'm a good leader well I think it's better to err on the side of No, there's some things that I can work on. So first box, do I want to do this? What am I passionate about? Number two, am I good at this?

Do other people agree that I'm good at this? The third thing, which is interesting, is opportunity. Is anyone giving me an opportunity to do the thing that I'm passionate about and good at? is is is my employer giving me an opportunity to do that and maybe I'm passionate about it and good at it and my employer doesn't know that they haven't they so at one point I was telling you about the video production company yeah at one point that's all my clients saw me as they're like what do you mean you speak no dude we need a video that's why we called you what guys i have another skill i had to stop doing that to be seen in a different life my first job out of college was i was a headhunter

people to this day will hit me up on facebook like hey man you think you could find me a job i'm like dude i don't headhunting why i had a headhunting 13 years yeah but there is this sometimes when you're introduced as a certain way to someone they can't see you any other way. Yeah, you and I both play in the space of professional athletes, right? And isn't that so true for them, right?

It's really figuring out who you're going to be after sports because once they see you that way, they always see you that way. Yeah, yeah, always. So, yeah, so it was, you know, it was one of those things where I had to go, all right, well, I have to, I've got to present myself in a different way, and I've got to stop doing some things, to be able to go, okay, I know I'm passionate about speaking.

I want to get better at it. Skill set is TBD. But what opportunities have I been given? So there were some small opportunities. There were some bigger opportunities. You know, it just, it really just kind of depended on what was happening that week that would determine, you know, how much energy I could give to those small opportunities. But let me tell you this, I treated those small opportunities like they were

my greatest opportunities. The big show. It could be 10 people. I'm like, and even now, in the virtual space, in my mind, I am in a stadium. And it's like, dude, you're sitting in your home office studio like with the screen. It's like, nope, in my mind, I'm giving stadium energy, period. It's like you just treat every opportunity like it's the opportunity. And so sometimes there's opportunities that are small that you forsake.

Don't. Even if it's small, do it. And sometimes you have to create an opportunity. Some people are like, man, I really want to be a film. I mean, I really want to be an actor. Man, I really want to, man, I got to go to this audition. And I'm like, man, that's cool. You can start a YouTube channel for free.

So sometimes, yes, you do have to go create an opportunity and get better at it over time. But I always recommend don't wait for someone else to give you an opportunity you could give yourself. The fourth thing that I think is the most important thing, which is, you know, do you feel like God put you on a planet to do it? Because I know a lot of people who find themselves doing something they are passionate about.

something that they are skilled to do, but they're given an opportunity to do every day. But there's just something that's missing. There's something internally that just goes, you know, I can't tell you how many people I've met and make a couple hundred grand a year. They're pretty good at their job.

They like it, but they just go, what am I doing? There's just something, something's off. And for them, they actually have to go somewhere else

outside of their career to find their sweet spot. So for a lot of people, I think you might check one of the boxes. You might check two. You might have opportunities

to do something that you're good at. Maybe you're not that passionate about it. Andre Acosy, one of the greatest tennis players of all time, wasn't passionate about tennis. His dad was passionate about tennis. So it's possible to be really good at something, make a lot of money even.

But notice money's not on the sweet spot. Some would say, oh, that'd make it real sweet, but sometimes it's more money, more problems. And I believe that you can be in your sweet spot and it not be something that you're even paid to do at all. Yeah. Which I think is like what, what makes it so hard in the workforce, right?

How do people in the workforce, how do you make time to discover the sweet spot when money is coming every couple of weeks? How do you get brave? You know, one of the themes we talked about and probably one of the first of the episodes we've recorded is like, how do you get brave enough and make time

to discover the sweet spot while you're still taking care of the daily responsibilities? But we can come back to that if it's a whole theme that we need to touch on. No, no, I think it's very important. I think sometimes, you know, I think you really have to wrestle with this. What do I really want to do? And do I need to get paid to do that?

Is that a job? Is that a side hustle? Sometimes I think, you know, especially my generation, they will confuse side hustle with career. They will confuse hobby with, oh, I should quit my job for this. No, you shouldn't. Your sweet spot can be your side hustle. In fact, there are some people that work really hard during the week to make enough money to do what they love for free.

And so I know some people who they're, and I know I keep saying I know some people, like I know like thousands of people. I really do know a lot of people. But I actually say this. I know of a couple of people to make it. realistic as possible. Whose sweet spot is working with nonprofits overseas.

They have full-time jobs. They work all year long with something they are good at to be able to go do their sweet spot overseas. Doctors do it all the time. They work in the States

10 months out of the year and then for two months, they'll go some. somewhere where medicine isn't developed and they'll help people that don't have it. Sweet spot. So I think each person, they can't find themselves. There I use a word enslaved to their paycheck. That it actually paralyzes them from thinking outside of the box of going, well, what else can I do when I'm not here?

And some people are like, I'm here all the time. Well, that's another chapter, maybe even another book that we could talk through of going, you know what? What can I control and what can't I control? But I think all of us should have something in our life where we go where it scratches the purpose box. Where we go, you know what? I may not get to do this all the time. But you know what? I feel like I was put on the planet to help people in finance, to help people figure out there.

but like there's just something about when I do that or someone asked me for advice on something, I just come alive in some way, shape, or form. I think we've got to pay attention a little bit to what's happening internally. It also pay attention to what's happening externally to say, okay, let me see how some things can be maneuvered. And I think a lot of this sometimes points to a transition within a company

to say, you know what, in light of my skill sets, in light of my personality, well, you know what? Maybe I need to make a shift. Yes. And how do you have that conversation, both as an employee and a manager? You know, we don't often talk about you, Ryan,

being, you know, the boss of us, right? Right. But every time, like I think about Whitney on our team, who's the COO, which you've mentioned, I think, on a previous podcast. But the day that she came in, I remember we had a team, call, I think maybe that afternoon or the next day. And every time we welcome somebody on the team,

you're so quick to have a discussion with them about like, this has to go both ways for both of us. You've got to find your sweet spot. Now, granted, it's an employer-employee relation. There's like relationship. There's non-negotiables. Somebody's got to answer the emails, right? Somebody has to be butts and seats to answer the phone when you're, when you're zooming. but I have always really appreciated that your team, how you view your team, even if it's consultants, your bureau team, your marketing team, the book team, you always invite a two-way conversation out of the gate because I think it gives your team the permission to know that being brave,

chasing failure, knowing that there's going to be transformation, that there's freedom to move around an organization when an opportunity presents itself out of the gate, it just creates a better relationship. Can you talk about why you do that or how you, you know, I've seen it firsthand how you have that conversation, but can you just give some insight for other managers or other leaders that are really thinking to themselves, okay, Ryan, but in practice, how do you have that conversation with an employee when you're not

the CEO, right? You can't promise the next job or you can't promise the pacing that comes with opportunities and finding the sweet spot. Not everybody can pivot tomorrow if they want to. to move jobs. Can you talk about how the conversation looks or why you do that? Absolutely. I think it's vitally important that all of us have failure-friendly environment. Because if you don't have a failure-friendly environment, and it's like, we demand results. What you will create is an untrustworthy environment and where people will

why when they do fail? Because we have created this. Failure is not an option. Actually, it is. And it happens every single day. Now, that doesn't mean we're trying to fail on purpose. It just means we realize that the people that work for this organization are human beings before their human doings.

And we want to put them in a position to fail at the smallest possible level. We learned to everything in our power to help them succeed. But at the same time, how a leader responds to failure is massive for the organization because everyone's going to be watching. Everyone's going to be watching the seat. Okay, how did they handle that when that person did what they did? And some leaders go, well, we got to strike fear into the entire organization. okay, so you want a fear-led environment? Who wants to work there?

Who wants to try there, right? Who wants to be there? Who wants to take a risk there? And so I think what organizations need, whether you're the leader or not, because a lot of people listen to this podcast are followers. I think it's important that our responses to people's,

I just did a team workshop for one of my clients. And we gave everyone an opportunity to redesign the org chart. It was such a fun exercise to see what other people came up with. Like, hey, what do you think would be optimal for the organization for how it's structured? And so we did that.

And you know what I told people when we got back? I said, hey, we're about to present brand new org charts. We'll see what happens. Who knows what you guys came up with? But I want to train your response before you give it. because how you respond to somebody's idea that you think is bad will create culture that is either a failure-friendly environment

or you are sending a signal to everyone else about what can happen when you take risk. And so realize that even though this was a fun exercise, it was also a vulnerable one. Yeah. So how we respond to each other's ideas, which, you know, the exercise we pulled from you the other day that I thought was awesome,

the yes and idea of going being yes and people instead of but no people, I think it's so crucial for environments where people are presenting new ideas and trying to think about new positions and really, you know, rethinking about how organizations are structured and how they operate. Yeah, that's awesome. That's good. Well, I think let's end it there because the next thing on my mind, is the money question that we don't have in the sweet spot. But I know kind of chapter five in

your book, which is our next talk is who wants to be a millionaire. So let's clip hang it and take it back up. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of followership with Ryan Leak. I wanted you to know that I got a new number just to connect with you. And this is a number that I use to be able to answer people's questions. And I send out weekly encouragements every single week. I send some sort of thought, something that I've been chewing on that really can help someone get through their week. If you'd like to subscribe to that, you can text 469-809-1201. Again, that's 469-809-1201. You can text hey, you could text subscribe, you could text followership, and you will get an automated message from the service. But trust me, it is coming to my phone. And if you ask me a question, I most like,

will answer to prove to you that it is me and that it is coming to my cell phone. Now, if today's episode added value to your life, I would encourage you to rate it, five stars as preferred. I would also encourage you to perhaps leave a comment. I would also encourage you to buy chasing failure on Amazon or wherever you purchase books. You can even get it on Audible. It's me reading the book. some extra bonus material with all the bullets. Well, and of course, if this added value to your life, I would encourage you to share it with a friend. Until next time, we'll see you.