The Ryan Leak Podcast - The Adventures of Stress with Dr. Rebecca Heiss

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

This season we are interviewing people we think are next-level in light of Ryan's new book called Leveling Up: 12 Questions to Elevate your Personal and Professional Development. Today's guest is Dr. Rebecca Heiss who has her PhD in Stress. In this episode of "The Adventures of Stress with PHD," Dr. Rebecca Heiss takes us on a journey of understanding the complex nature of stress. With her extensive knowledge and expertise, she sheds light on the importance of stress and how it can actually help us thrive when managed correctly. You'll get an education on the differences between positive and negative stress and why it's crucial to be aware of both. Join Ryan Leak & Dr. Heiss as they explore the benefits and challenges of stress, and provides practical tips for recognizing and harnessing it in our daily lives. This episode promises to be a thought-provoking and enlightening journey through the world of stress.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of followership with Ryan Leak. This is a podcast that is designed to talk about the other side of leadership, and that is following. This year, I wanted to do this season of the podcast talking to people that I think are absolutely next level. I wrote a book called Leveling Up, 12 questions to elevate your personal and professional development. A phrase we use in the book a lot is there's levels to this thing. And every now and then you come across somebody that you truly believe is next level and you want to learn as much as you possibly can from that person. And so today's guest is absolutely a next level person.

Dr. Rebecca Heist. And the key word there is doctor. I met Dr. Rebecca. I met Dr. Rebecca. We were at an event called Impact 11 that, you know, kind of helps speakers go to the next level. And our tables were next to one another. And it comes to Dr. Rebecca. And, you know, we're at the place in this conference where it's like, hey, what does this issue do?

And she has a PhD in stress. And there's a more technical term. for that she's going to tell you. But that's what I tell people, okay? Like, literally, she has no idea that, like, I use her as bragging rights on, like, a weekly basis. Like, I'll just be walking around, and I'll just be, like, so I was talking to this PhD in stress the other day,

and what you need to know is, and people are like, dang, you know, like, the PhD is. I'm like, first off, she doesn't even have a PhD in stress. It's called something else, but, like, that's, That's what I took away from it. Nevertheless, I thought, man, I'm sure that our audience, our listeners, are just struggling with stress. And I don't think that they should. And so I reached out to Dr. Rebecca and said, would you be so kind and join us on the podcast

and help people leverage, get rid of stress in some way, shape, or form? So, Dr. Rebecca, thank you so much for doing. joining followership with Ryan League today. Holy smokes, Ryan. That is hands out the best slash scariest introduction. I think you're setting me up for this podcast. Like my story went through the roof. And it's a good thing.

So that's the biggest thing that I want your listeners to hear today. My stress levels went through the roof and it's a good thing. That's what I'm going to talk about. That's so awesome. So tell people what you actually have a PhD in so that We're not giving false advertisement here. Fair enough. So my background is in evolutionary biology and human behavior.

And I have a PhD in stress physiology, which is essentially the way your body responds to stress. Wow. All the terrible decisions that we typically make when we're in that, like, threat response. Wow. So what are the terrible decisions that people make when they're in that, what did you say threat response? Threat response. Yeah. So typically the fight, flight, flight,

phrase response is what we hear about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, your heart starts to race and your arteries literally shrink down to increase your blood pressure so you can pump their blood faster and get it to all the parts to run away or to fight. And what people do is actually we go into binary thinking. So it's like, if you think about this for our ancestors, it's like a tiger is charging you.

And so your vision literally narrows, as does your thinking. Wow. So your only focus is, how do I survive? How do I get out of this? How do I? So what people end up doing is they procrastinate. They like avoid it. Let's avoid that email that I'm going to treat like a tiger.

I'm going to go hide in the bushes, right? Or they send a testy email. They hit reply all and just because I'm stressed out and I'm just going to get this done. And then you're like, oh my gosh, what did I just do? So we make some pretty bad decisions under stress. But here's the thing. This is the wildest thing to me because what you said is how most people think about stress. Like how do I avoid it?

How do I temper it? How do I get rid of it? And the big shift, I think, is this. Stress isn't bad, period. Stress is needed. Like most people come to me and they're like, I want no stress in my life. And I'm like, dude, that's a dead person's goal. Right?

The only people that have no stress are dead. What you want is a shift in your stress mindset. So stress is actually really useful to us. It's the thing that gets us out of bed in the morning. It's the thing that helps us perform. If you need evidence of it, look at the Olympics, right? Very stressful performance-based situation, right? Where all these elite athletes are like trying to do their very,

that's a tremendous amount of stress and pressure. And yet that's where you see world records getting broken. Why? Because forget that stress is, stress and performance has this reciprocal relationship where it's like a little inverse you, if you will, a normal curve. So if you have zero stress in your life, you have zero performance, you have no reason to get out of bed in the morning, right? You're like, I don't have to get up and get food because my body is telling me I don't even need food. That's a problem.

If you have way too much stress, then performance declined. But if you have that spot, that in between where you're like, ooh, I feel that deadline is coming. You know, that's when you start to get to work and your performance actually excels. So my job is really to take that distress, that really stress when you're like, oh, my, gosh, I can't do it. It's too much. And give you some strategies to turn that ordeal into an adventure. So you get back onto that high performance, you know, track. So maybe even get more technical.

How is stress measured? What is the scale? So if we're saying no stress is not good, too much stress is bad. Okay. So what is the, is it a scale? scale of one to 10. How is stress literally measured? So, Ryan, this is a great question and one that is incredibly frustrating to stress

physiologists because it is completely subjective and it's relative. Okay. The only real measure of stress is cortisol, which is the stress hormone that your body produces. Okay. So we can, I can take a blood sample or a salivary sample. I can tell you exactly where you are on the stress level. Really?

Yeah, absolutely. Like we, as a matter of fact, here's what we're. going to do. I'm going to send you a kit. I'm going to have you spit into it and I'll measure your cortisol levels. So you can see where you are on this stress, right? But the wild thing is, what's really going to stress you out isn't going to stress me out and vice versa. Really? So much of it exists right here in our heads. How you approach the situation, is this a threat or is this a challenge? Is this a tiger? Ryan, how many people do you speak to on a weekly basis? I don't know, 10,000.

Right. For most of our listeners right now, they're like, you're speaking to 10. Their stress just went through the roof because they're like, oh, my God, the whole thing is terrifying for most people. Right. You and I, we love it. It's a challenge, right? It gets our heart pumping in a manner that's similar to the stress response,

but in our instance, our arteries open and it pumps more blood to get to our brain. Like, we get excited about it. So the exact same challenge gets interpreted by our bodies differently. So it's a very long way of responding to that. But cortisol is the only true measure of stress if we want to be really accurate about it. So a part of me, this is awesome, by the way. I feel like my mind is being stretched as you're talking because part of what I often wonder is if I have talked myself out of being stressed

slash have I lied to myself? Yes. Because most people look at my calendar, schedule, stages, and they're stressed out. And I'm like, I'm not stressed. I'm like, I thoroughly enjoy what I do. I'm handsomely rewarded for what I do.

I'm not saying it's no stress, but I'm like, hey, this is, you know, you don't get into the speaking business to not be busy. Does that make sense? You're like, no, like, I want to be doing this. It's still, like, would I like to do more of it in Dallas? Yeah. But, but it's a, but I'm often one, like, as I talk to different people, I'm always like, man, have I, have I lied to myself? And now I want to, I want to, you know, do this I've got to go, okay, this will tell me if I've not rewired, if I've, will it or will it not? Is that a good idea now? No, no, here's what's going to happen. So the chances are you've lied to yourself and it's worked.

So this is the crazy thing about the way the brain works, right? Is we are under stress, like distress, bad stress, really we're like stress out of our gourds. And we're excited. Either of those emotions releases the exact same hormonal profile. which is really interesting. So if I measure your cortisol when you're really excited about something, you're going to look like you're stressed

and vice versa. So really the only difference is how we're interpreting the signal, which is our brains, right? What story are you telling? And Ryan, you're telling, you look at that calendar, you're like, man, I'm excited.

I'm good. The story that most of us are doing when we're looking at that calendar is, whoa, that is way too much. Holy smokes. So one of my favorite studies, right, we looked at, not we, I wish it was me. This was done in 1998, but 30,000 people, all right, in the United States. And we looked at their longevity and health.

There was a 43% risk of increase of death in people that were highly stressed. But only if they thought their stress was bad for them. People that had the highest level of stress, but saw it like you do as like, oh, this is this is good for me. This is where I'm optimal. This is where I'm performing. Actually had the lowest rates of death. The people that had really low stress died at higher rates. So when I tell people that they're like, no, my mind is blown. I was always told I needed less stress. And I'm like, no, you need the right kind of stress, the right mindset to handle that stress. So what is the right kind of stress? Talk to somebody that's perhaps in an organization.

and they don't have much control over their situation. And it's a stressful season. There's so much talk around obsession, inflation, high interest rates, layoffs, many things that can sort of create this petri dish of worry and stress. What should be somebody's mindset around those things? I love it. It's a great question. I'm going to give you a three-step process.

All right? So the first thing that I want people to do is to recalibrate their stress cycle. Because what's happened as we've sort of evolved through history is if you think about what our ancestors we're dealing with, freezing winters, predators, not having enough food. Now those are realities for people still. But for most of our listeners, if you're listening on a device, you're probably not going to be eaten by a tiger tomorrow, right? But our bodies are still acting as if. So when you get those emails that are coming in nonstop, if your boss is calling you into a meeting and you're not sure what it is, you start to have the exact same stress response, bodily response,

as if the tiger was charging you. So by recalibrating our stress cycle, what I'm going to ask you to do is go out and seek safe forms of discomfort. So here's what this looks like. Ryan, this is probably not going to be a challenge for you, but I'm going to do it anyway. I want you to go to the busiest street corner you can find right now and sing. Just pick their favorite.

Sing Twinkle to make a little star. Just belt it out. Now probably, and listeners, this is your challenge too. Probably what's going to happen is you're going to start to feel your heart pounding, right? You might sweat a little bit. Your mouth may dry up. You're having a stress response. Now, at the end of your song, you might have a little like sideways looks from people,

but nothing bad is going to happen. You don't die. And then your brain records this. that says, huh, interesting, didn't die today. Had a stress response, didn't die today. Wow. And now, the more you do that, the more you actively seek these safe forms of discomfort, the more when discomfort finds you, you're in work and you don't have control

and your boss comes in and says, I need this tomorrow and you're like, I can't. The more you have physiological control over that stress response, and you can see it more as a challenge rather than a threat. So that's just step one, right? Step two is then you're going to reinterpret these stories. So as you're feeling that, when you first start to feel that your boss comes in, you've got to do this thing, and you feel the stress response come on, instead of saying, oh, gosh, this is going to affect my health.

Oh my gosh, my heart is beating fast. I'm probably headed for a heart attack. What you're going to say instead is, oh, my heart is pumping all these nutrients and oxygen to my brain so I can think better, which is true. And the more we switch those stories to get, stress is actually allowing me to perform, the more our brain buys in and the more you do perform. So then step three is then to realign. Look back. Think about the times before when you've had these

stress challenges and how you've risen to those occasions. And then you're going to realign this challenge with that and say, oh yes, I remember how I've performed. I know I can do this. And I want you to surround yourself also with people who have the same stress mindset. Because if you ever sat next to somebody on a plane who's super anxious, Ryan? Oh, yeah. And they're like, every time there's a little target, they're like, what do you do? You end up doing the same thing, right? You're like, I'm not even, I fly every day and I'm not.

Because we're communal, because as a human species, we're so social. We take on the emotions of others really easily. If you're surrounding yourself with people that are like, I can't do it. It's too much stress. It's going to kill me. It's just, I need to get out of this. Then you're starting to take on that mindset too. So the realignment is also realigning with people that are going to help you maintain that stress mindset to rise.

What do you think about people in organizations that find themselves marginalized? And I'll never forget, I was working with a professional sports team and they had a, female coach and she worked her tail off to make sure that no one ever knew she was pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. And I just, like, had the baby or sweat, like, she just figured it out, kept working. But she never got what I would deem to be normally, like belly show. Like it was never obvious. Yeah. And I just thought, man, there's so many people in organizations that feel like they have to hide who they are.

Or they feel like they have to. And so it's like every day they're entering into somewhat of a stressful situation. Or switching. 100%. Absolutely. Yeah, even thinking about women who just have to think about what kids will do to their career in general. Yep. And how that's viewed and pressure, all of that. Like, what would you say in terms of some of that work-life balance, stress?

Yeah. What would you encourage people with? Yeah, I think it's really difficult because, you know, you look at any kind of marginalized population. and they're experiencing stressors at much higher levels. So anything to adjust the stress mindset is now on top of having to prove myself, having to show up and, you know, because I'm the token X, all of the weight of being the only female, being the only person of color, being the only, whatever it is, is now falling on me.

That's a really dangerous stress mindset, right? Because you're getting immediately into distress. instead of saying how do I show up as my best self? How can I show up today as my best self? And all I can say is that stress and meaning, stress and purpose are inextricably linked. So I see myself, my purpose as being advancing women in the workplace, then of course that's going to be a stressful situation for me. Right.

It's also going to be meaningful, which means I stay in that adventure mindset. rather than having that drag me down. So I would say the reinterpretation of the story there is not all of the weight of having to be the best female in my position falls on me. It's female and I'm going to show how valuable I am in this role. It is subtle and it is difficult and tricky. But telling yourself a story that benefits you, there's all kinds of fascinating research on placebos.

For example, here's one of my favorites. It's a group of housekeepers was split into two separate conditions, right? And in one condition, they were simply told that they were meeting the Surgeon General's requirement for exercise. That's it. They didn't change their routines at all. The other condition wasn't told anything. So they didn't change their diet. They controlled for factors of steps and everything that they were doing.

And at the end of four weeks, there was a massive difference between the two groups. the group that was simply told that they were meeting the Surgeon General's requirement for exercise, a lower weight, lower blood pressure, lower body fat, lower waist and hip ratio and a lower body mass index. You think about the power of the stories that

you're telling as a woman, as a person of color, as an LBGTQP plus community member. What are you carrying in? That has great power. So make sure those stories are being interpreted on a way that can help you perform rather than hold you back.

What should a person look for as signs of the bad kind of stress? Distress. Yeah, the distress. I was told that, you know, stress can take up to two weeks to show up in your body. And then I tell you that. And you're like, no, it's actually two months. I'm like, oh, so you're telling me that I could have drama with my family at Christmas and it show up on Valentine's Day.

That's just mind-blowing to me. So like, how does this show up? Like, what should someone look for physically to go, I've got an issue and I need to do something about it? Yeah. So let me answer that question. And then I want to take a step back because I want to talk. about generational stress, like getting passed down from generations because that's...

Okay. That's huge. Okay. Okay. So the first thing, there's two kinds of ways that we measure stress. There's acute stress. That's in the moment. That's me saying, okay, Ryan, we're going to do a math quiz right now on air.

Are you ready? Right. And you're like, what? So that's what you feel that rapid heartbeat, the sweat, the mouth threat. We're familiar with that, right? That's the immediate stress. Yeah. Long-term stress.

over a longer term when you're showing up day in, day out and you're just grinding, you're not getting enough sleep. That's A number one, right? If you're not sleeping well, if you're not eating well, if you're not getting exercise,

if you're not getting out and getting sunshine, first thing in the morning, your body begins to deteriorate, right? It begins to break down at the level of the DNA. So you literally have mutations happening. Those can lead to cancer. So when we're talking about, when we're talking about it might show up in two weeks,

it might show up in two months. It might show up in 20 years. It might show up in your grand babies, right? So the power of stress to show up is also difficult to measure because it can take any span of time. So here's what I need you to look for, right? What I need for you to look for is that feeling of I don't want to get out of bed today. I'm tired. I'm just tired. And a lot of these... I was going to say that describes about 78% of the people I know. Exactly. I was going to say, and a lot of these, I feel bad even saying because everybody's like, uh-oh, it's me. Uh-oh, that's me. Okay, but before we go into the uh-oh part, let's hold two truths. Yes, you are stressed and that can be bad. And yes, there's an upside to stress as well.

So can we challenge ourselves to think about, wow, I'm really exhausted. What is one thing that I can do today to bring a little bit of light and love to myself? What is one way I can think about this stress as helping me rather than harming me? And I know that sounds really like woo-woo and out there, but there are so many like mindset interventions. We're like just before you take a test, for example, if I tell you, hey, if you're feeling that stress, it's a good thing. It's going to help you. Students will outperform. Like it's wild, these little shifts in our stories. So be looking for really the exhaustion.

The exhaustion, the overeating, the craving sweets and fats, or not being able to sleep. We call it tired but wired, right? You're exhausted, but you're like up all the time. And these little devices that we hold every day aren't helping us because we go to this mindless scroll. And that's, again, hitting our dopamine, giving us what we feel like is a reward and a relaxation, but it's not getting us to recover from that stress. So when you hear the term stress eating,

Because honestly, even everything you just described, I'm like, you just described America. Yeah. Yeah. No kidding. This is why I have a job, right? Ryan, this is why people hire me. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. That's a. So last question. How does someone truly adopt an adventure mindset when it comes to stress? I think it's going back to those three things. Recognizing your own power first. Right? We don't do.

choose how our body reacts is going to do the thing that it's going to do. We don't get to choose that, but we can't train it to respond differently. So so much of it is literally right here in our little noggins. When we feel that, okay, I'm really stressed. How does that make you feel? Does that make you feel good? Or does that make you feel bad? And most people go, well, duh, it's bad. And what I'm asking you to do is they actually, wait a second, full pause, is that bad? Am I actually on an adventure here? Can I get curious?

Yeah. Because when I get curious about it, then what happens is I begin to ask questions. My fear dissipates, because fear and curiosity cannot coexist in the brain. There's no mechanism for it. So if you ask the question, you kick yourself out of fear,

which is really cool. So when we get curious, I wonder if this stress really is helping me. Right there, you've already set yourself on a path towards a healthier mindset. Let me tell you what I'm going to do this week. Everywhere I go, I'm going to say, listen, I was talking to my stressologist. She's got a PhD in stress.

She says, you need a mindset intervention when it comes. I'm just going to say it. It's just going to roll off of my tongue so easily. Brian, my favorite question. Some language. I love it. My favorite question to ask, is it a tiger? is it a tiger?

Because if it's not going to kill you, it's just so cliche, right? If it's not going to kill you, it's going to make you stronger. But truly for your brain, it's the same thing as a muscle, right? It hurts a little bit to rip those muscles as you're doing bicep curls. But when they grow, you have to rip them first.

It's the same thing with stress. It has to rip your brain a little bit. And then the cortisol response actually helps it recover too. So it's not a time. It's going to make you strong. Amazing. I'm stealing.

all of this. Good. I'm giving you credit, but I'm just, it's, but yeah, it's, and I think it's going to help a lot of people too. That makes my world a lot better. Absolutely.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, if you are looking for a speaker to come help your whole organization or your team deal and manage and also utilize and adopt an adventure mindset, I highly recommend you

bring in Dr. Rebecca Heist to come work with your team and she will help you get your adventure back, especially if you've lost it. So once again, thank you so much for being on followership with Ryan Lee. It has been an absolute pleasure, Dr. Rebecca. Mine. Thank you so much, Ryan. It's awesome. Ladies and gentlemen, if you enjoy today's episode, feel free to like it, share it. Don't forget to subscribe and we'll see you next time.