The Ryan Leak Podcast - The Importance of a Healthy Pace w/Nick Nilson

Episode Date: November 30, 2020

Nick Nilson is the Associate Pastor at Lakewood Church in Houston, TX. He's had a unique and interesting journey following one of the most influential voices of our time, Joel Osteen.  Highlights from this episode: "Ask great questions, be prepared, and be concise."   "Earning your leader's trust allows you to gain authentic favor with them."   "If you do your job really well and you do your job really well for a good period of time. I think it gains the attention of not just your manager, boss, the president of the organization, but also your peers. It just earns you great respect in your organization."   " Big leaders want to be around fun people who lift the room."    "People admire perfection, but they can't relate to it." Take-Aways: Knowing what questions to ask helps you understand your leader.    Consistency and faithfulness are characteristics in followers that stand out to leaders.    To be successful, it is essential to kill pride, be vulnerable, listen more, and slow down.   Be a follower who comes with solutions, not problems.   You can be doing things for God, and God does not want you to be doing them.  We must discern the difference between a good opportunity for the kingdom and a God-ordained opportunity. Show notes can be found at ryanleak.com/followership.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Fowlership with Ryan Leake, a podcast designed to equip you with the tools you need to succeed in the workplace. Hey, on today's episode of Fowler'ship, we are going to discuss the importance of being consistent and the importance of having a healthy pace with my very good friend, Nick Nelson. Nick Nelson works for Lakewood Church. If you've never heard of Lakewood Church, perhaps you've heard of, of Joel Osteen and Nick is a leader in that organization, but he's also, he's done some really great things in following a really great leader. So we're going to learn a lot from him in this conversation that we had. Before we do that, I want you to know that the show notes to today's episode can be found in ryanleek.com slash followership. And anything you need regarding

followership can also be found there at ryanleek.com slash followership. Ladies and gentlemen, without any further to do, I want you to hop in on this amazing conversation I have with my friend, Nick Nils. Nick, how long, how long have you worked at Lakewood? I've been working there at 13 years now. 13, it's been 13 years? 13 years, man. Oh, my gosh. Incredible years.

That's awesome. Yes. I love that, man. And it's part of perhaps the saddest part of 2020 for me was I was scheduled to come there. It was in May. I was supposed to come and hang out with my Lakewood fam. Yes. COVID-19 has been postponed.

But that would have been, that would have been legit. Nick is married to summer. She's awesome. He's got two kids. How old are the kids now? Nine and 13. Haven, my daughter is 13, Denver. My son is nine.

They've grown up fast. I remember when they were a lot younger. And, you know, have you had to fight any boys yet over your daughter? You know, that's a good question. I haven't had to fight. I've had to get some stare downs. Uh-huh. You know, that's all it's come to right now is just, you know, one look.

Yep. And, you know, that's holding off the middle school boys as of now. Okay. I got a rule when she wants to date in high school and that rule is if you, if you wants to ask you out, he's got to sit down, have some coffee with me first. If he's cool with doing that, then he's good. He's good. So I got no invitations to Starbucks yet.

So we'll see. All right. All right. And you've had multiple roles at Lakewood over the last 13 years. Yeah. What's your current role? What would be your current title? So my current title is Associate Pastor.

So that means really my responsibilities in that. role is to give directional leadership to our staff. To continue to improve and speak into our culture as a staff, our leadership development, our volunteer development at the church. I work really closely with our young adult team as well, given leadership to the next generation. So that was a few things. Yep, that's where I live.

Now, Lakewood Church has, you know, obviously pre-COVID times, you know, upwards of over 40,000 people each weekend. It's amazing what God has done there in Houston. How many volunteers are required to pull off a Lakewood weekend? I'd say probably, probably 2000 on average. Yeah, I'd say roughly 2000. That's amazing. It is amazing. Our teams and people are second to none. Heart and soul of Lakewood, hands down, are our volunteers and leaders. I mean, kids, volunteers, you know, you got greeters and ushers and production. There's just so many people who shine in the shadows. What would you say has impressed you the most about what we would talk about in the context of this podcast, those 2,000 followers?

What would you say has impressed you, you know, over the last 13 years? I mean, obviously, I'm sure those 2,000 have rotated over 13 years. is probably tens of thousands of people. But man, what sticks out to you as a character trait of a follower? Obviously, you know, going to a large venue like that, many people can feel like a number in a sea of people, but picking out not just a number, but maybe even like a person, you go, man, they embody this trait and it's personal.

Yeah. Yeah, I would have to say consistency, I think is probably just, you know, also known as faithfulness, just people who weekend and week out, though they carry full-time jobs, they're sorting kids, baseball games on the weekends and all kinds of different plates that they're spinning. They still show up. They still follow through on what they commit to. You know, we obviously, when a volunteer comes on, when these team members come in, it's, hey, this is what is expected of these roles. Can you do them?

And if you can't, that's great. You know, we understand. But when our people commit, they commit. They stay consistent. They follow through. And when you have, you know, the services that we have and the dynamic we have in the middle of the city, I mean, you got people who are driving 45 minutes to come and volunteer. here every week. This isn't a 10 minute up the street drive.

This is a long. So I mean, just the unrelenting passion and commitment that our team carries just to be consistent. I mean, if they say they're going to do it, they're going to show up and they can be trusted and counted on it. And it's pretty unbelievable. Well, you know, one of the things that was impressive to me, one of the first times I came to visit you at Lakewood, you know, a lot of people will see Joel on TV.

or, you know, see, you know, a clip on Facebook or YouTube or whatever and kind of get this idea of what Lakewood is. But it wasn't until I went that I realized how small you guys make a big room. And most people probably wouldn't even know this. But at Lakewood Church, you guys pray for everybody. Yeah. Everybody. I mean, most people would think, okay, you know, we've got 10, 12,000 people in a room. we're just going to give up on trying to meet the needs of each person.

Dude, it was so impressive to me that you had volunteer prayer leaders in every section to say, hey, we're going to pray for everybody no matter how long it takes, man. And so I've always been impressed with the volunteer force that you guys have there. It's really incredible. Yeah, and first, I mean, Lakewood's 60 plus years old now. We just celebrated 60 years. And that's always been at the heart, you know, Pastor John Osteen, who found. in Lakewood, praying for people when they come in, everyone's caring a need.

Everyone has struggles and issues they're working through. How can we pray with them one on one? And so now obviously with COVID, we have to adjust and do more of a corporate type of a thing. But yeah, I mean, that's part of our vision is to give each person hope when they come and reminding them their best days are ahead of them and whatever they're facing, financial struggle, marriage issues, you know, we're going to join our faith with yours to believe that something's going to change and good things are ahead. So, yeah, it's great. Now, through, like, with Joel, Joel, how many people are you guys reaching every week, XM Radio, TV? Oh, boy. Isn't it like seven?

I don't want to throw the wrong number out there, you know, but I just, I remember, I remember it being a rather large number, but I didn't, I don't know what the numbers are. And I just, part of what blessed me also, when I was there was how much there was a sensitivity to like, hey, we're reaching the world right now. Like there's a family in another part of the world

in a hut surrounding a computer screen and Joel is encouraging them. You know, so I just, you know, so I think it, the last number I heard, it was like $7 million a weekend. I don't know how many on XM radio. It's around there.

You know, I think anywhere between seven to 10 million a week and that you know depending on radio podcast YouTube you know all our platforms it's a unique god thing man it's crazy the influence um and yeah i mean it is a special thing that we we try to steward well the one thing i love about our pastor is he's very diligent on how we steward the influence god has given us um he doesn't take it lightly every week he's trying to make the wisest decisions that take care of what God's given us. Yeah. So what is it like following Joel Osteen? Oh, I, you know, it's an honor. The more, you know, 13 years I've been there. I'd say the last

two or three, I've had the opportunity to be more up close with pastor and follow. following him and following his heart, following his leadership and his style and what he wants for the organization. I think for me, seeing his humility, seeing his integrity and character up close, consistency, loyalty, compassion, love for people. I mean, I can go down the list of things

that make me want to follow even more, you know, to the ends of the earth, just because, you know, I see him, carry those things on a daily basis, set the tone, set the example. It's pretty amazing. He crushes me in tennis every week now. He's a tennis player, which I'm not too proud of. But, you know, good athlete, great leader.

That's awesome. The most positive person that I've ever met, I mean, who you see on the platform, you know, everybody sees or hears through all these platforms, his voice and, can kind of get an idea of his personality. But he truly is the most positive person, the most optimistic person. And that's special to follow, man. It's an honor to follow a person like that. Well, in your opinion, when following a leader, what's the best way to learn your leader?

Like, I mean, obviously, you know, following a public figure like Pastor Joel Osteen, proximity is always something that you're you're sort of learning their pace versus your pace what you can bring up what you can't bring up what have you learned about learning your leader well i think with our relationship growing i feel like knowing what what questions to ask um you know i read a you know read a book this this year that that just really challenged me in a team just on clarity, you know, the idea that clear is kind and trying to get clarity from him, trying to understand why he does certain things, not just for me personally and for my growth, but also for the organization, you know, you can try to interpret what he's saying or try to figure out

or guess what he wants or what he's meaning when he says certain things. But, okay, pastor, you said this. Is this what you mean? or hey, you want us to set up this process. Is this the outcome you're looking for? Just asking really pointed questions to try to drill down to what he really is wanting. You know, I think for me that's been a big, it's allowed me to learn so much from him. You know, what does preparation look like for you?

You know, what does sermon prep look like? And I find he is excited to share. Sometimes I got in this tension of like, am I overstepping my boundaries here? Should I mean? Share. You know, is this the secret sauce that you don't want anyone to know? You know, and as I built a relationship with him, you know, he loves helping. I mean, the guy wants to encourage and lift people and push others further than he's gone.

And so just asking, for me, it's been communication questions, you know, in this last season. What does prep look like? How do you tell great stories? What do you focus on when you tell your stories? I think I think Pastor Joel is a brilliant communicator, one of the best in the world. You know, why 27 minutes? Why, you know, just asking those types of things. So I would say to answer the question, ask great questions and be clear.

and be concise. I love that. Be prepared with those questions. Dude, that's really good because I think a lot of followers are intimidated to ask clarifying questions because they feel like if I ask this question, I'm going to sound stupid or I'm going to feel stupid or I should already know the answer to this question. So a follower will actually pretend they know what their leader wants instead of actually asking clarifying questions.

So that's why I think what you said is so good because. you know, if you're listening to this, you've got to ask questions. There's so many times I've even just being an executive coach or sitting with leaders where they will use an acronym that the room knows that I have no idea what they're talking about. Not a clue. Not a clue. Dude, I remember I was sitting, where was that? I was sitting in an annual leadership meeting.

I was there to just kind of be a fly on the wall. And this guy gets up and gives this presentation. I mean, he did a presentation for at least an hour. And he used the acronym FSE at least 100 times. And I was like, I don't even know what the presentation's about because he keeps talking about FSEs. So I was so scared, but I just raised my hand and I go, hey, what's an FSE? and he looks around the room and goes, does everybody know what FSC is?

Bro, like four people knew what an FSD was. Like, we were all in there nodding. Like, we knew what this guy was talking about when no one knew what he was talking about. I was like, I was Googling it. I'm like, did I just, I don't know, I have no idea. I was trying to fill in the blank. But I wish I would have asked a clarifying question

an hour before I let this guy go do a whole a whole presentation, man. So I absolutely love that. You know, one of the things that I've known about you for decades now is, man, you've always seemed to just have favor with your leaders. I found that followers sometimes

try and gain favor with their leaders, but they do it by sucking up. They do it by either flattery or even sometimes lying to their leader, telling them they're good at things that they're not. So my question for you is, how can a follower gain favor with their leader without sucking up? And how can they do that in an authentic way?

I think it's earning trust over time. You know, I keep saying the word consistent, but I think if you do your job really well and you do your job really well for a good period of time, I think that gains the attention of not just your manager, your boss, the president, but your peers. It just earns great respect in your organization. From my journey, you know, pastor repeatedly over the last couple years has just said,

Nick, I saw you and summer and your team build something for 10 years. And for him having something that he could see from my leadership, something that was produced over a long period of time, earned his trust. And it gave, you know, it helped me, you know, find myself taking on more responsibility. I think another big thing is coming with solutions being a follower who comes with solutions, not problems. And there's a lot of issues we all see. But I think anytime I'm around him or around anyone in our organization at a high level, you know, it's, hey, here's the issues, but here's three solutions to those issues.

And I think that has earned favor with him because he's not looking for another person of him problems. He's looking for someone who can solve problems, bring solutions. I think the other thing that sounds crazy, but I think big leaders want to be around fun people who lift the room.

Like it's so practical, but smile a lot. Like big leaders, like big leaders. leaders have enough stress and issues. I want to be someone that would come into a room that he's in and smile and not be someone that he feels like he's got a lift every time I'm around him or that he's got to put more energy into. Like, I'm there to relieve the burden.

I'm there to change the temperature of the room if it's heavy. I'm there to smile, be positive, bring solutions. and be ultimately a thermostat, be someone that is changing the temperature of the room and helping him do that. So I don't know if that makes sense, but. Yeah, no, it does. I think that those simple things, that earns favor and trust to me. You know, you talk about being in a room, elevating it, building trust. One of the leadership talks you gave years ago, I still.

remember it to this day. It always stuck with me. You called it fighting the I can do it better spirit. And I just think so many followers, the more they're in the room, the closer they are to a table of influence, a decision-making room or table, there can be this thing that kind of slips in, like,

where your heart was in, a good place, but the longer you're in the room, the more you start to go, well, I would do it this way. Man, so, man, what would you, I mean, not for you to pull, pull the PDF from that leadership talk, but I just thought it was so good and applies to followers as well. Man, how do we fight to the I can do it better spear? Oh, man, that's tough. I mean, I've been guilty of it.

I know in that talk, I even gave an example. of a season where, like you said, you get around a leader and you get comfortable. Right. And, you know, any great leader is going to be, make you feel like you can change the world, make you comfortable around them. I mean, Pastor Joel, for me, he, you know, you become so endeared to him and you love him because he's so normal and humble and fun be around. And next thing you know, you're like, man, we're boys.

Like we're brothers. We're boys in this. And that and you begin to, and if you don't remind yourself, hey, wait, he's my pastor. He's the authority in my world right now. Or he's the CEO or he's the president, like reminding yourself positionally where you're at, keeping yourself in check, regardless of how comfortable they are around you. for me it's constantly sounds silly

but it's even just he's Pastor Joel to me it's not Joel hey Joel what's going on like for me is that's Pastor Joel and it's not just a verbal thing that I say it's something that keeps my heart

in the right place I also think when it comes to ideas when it comes to hey we have a problem pastor wants to execute the solution this way I think we should do it this way. At the end of the day, you know, it's, it's coming to that place and realizing,

look, I may think my way is the right way, but right now I'm not in that position to make that call. So it's really honoring him and realizing if God wanted me to be in that position and execute this, then he would have put me there. And, you know, right now I'm not. So there's a lot of things I could say about it, you know, without pulling up the PDF. Yeah, right, right, right. But it's tough. Yeah, no, I love that, man. When you look back on the people you've led, worked with, worked for, if you could fill in the blank with maybe two to three answers, if you could say they would have been successful, if they just would have.

Kill pride. Mm. Been more vulnerable. Mm. listened more and slowed down. Wow. I think I can talk about all of them, but I feel like, you know,

people admire perfection, but they can't relate to it. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Dude, that's big. That's big. Yeah, I feel like when I've looked, even in my own leadership,

you know, you get in seasons where you get insecure and you want people to feel like you're this flawless leader and you can change the world and you can take them to the highest mountain and but people relate to weaknesses and vulnerability. And I think following leaders who weren't vulnerable,

who didn't listen, man, those are probably the biggest things, yeah. Dude, I mean, it was a short answer, but it was extremely profound. I mean, like, I'm over here like, man, like that just, it just hit me, you know. And I think one of the things I've admired about you, you know, you talk about slowing down. You know, we were talking, you know, I don't know, a year ago when I was there about just saying no to stuff, saying no to opportunities,

you know, for the sake of your family. And obviously, when given an opportunity to go and speak, you know, obviously you get paid to do it. So you're not just saying no to the opportunity. You're saying no to money. You're saying no, you know, those are difficult things to say no to. You've always guarded your pace. And I was talking to somebody about you the other day, and I said, he has a holy pause about him.

He doesn't make rush decisions. And I think one of the biggest hurdles that followers have is often impatience. How have you kept your pace healthy? How have you overcome that hurdle so well? I think I've learned the hard way, you know, in many, seasons of leadership where I've gone really, really hard and I've seen how unhealthy my heart became, how I, you know, start getting harsh with my wife, you know, wrong tone with my kids, just not liking the man I was in that season. And I feel like every time I assessed,

it was, it was coming from a place of being too busy. Too busy when a love. lot of good things. You know, like if I, like assessing it, these are all good things. God honoring things, but they weren't the right thing for me in that season. And I felt like I've done a lot of things that were for God, but they weren't from God. That makes sense. Yeah. These are things that are good things to do, but they weren't things that God wanted me to do.

And, and, uh, I just find our, I just find our, I just find the, lot of people getting really, really busy. For me, it's finding the right pace. It's finding a rhythm in every season that is, you know, that is appropriate for that season. I would say this. I feel like I want to always, with pausing and with going at the right pace, it's like, it's wanting to respond and not react to your circumstances and to your leadership situations

and seasons. Like, I feel like when you're hurried, you're reacting instead of responding appropriately. Whether it's an email, it's a social media post. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, hello. It's a person exiting, you know, you get the notice and you're like, oh, my gosh, this person's leaving.

And immediately, you're rushed. You want to react instead of responding. And I think there's a big difference in your pace that you're currently finding. yourself in will either cause you to react or cause you to properly respond. If I'm at a good pace, I take a deep breath. I push away from the laptop and the email and I assess how do I properly respond to this post, this exit, this thing that just happened in our organization. If I'm at a healthy pace, I can always respond 90% of the time. correctly. We're always going to make Mr. Mark. But, you know, there's a, there's a Psalm

Ryan that I love, Psalm 2714. It says, wait patiently for the Lord. Be strong and courageous. Wait patiently. Two times it says wait patiently. And in between, it says be strong and courageous. Sometimes we think being strong and courageous is to rush and to tackle those mountains and to go for things and to move fast. But sometimes, Sometimes the most courageous thing you can do is wait. And it's to slow down. Wow. And be patient.

Wow. That to me is why I fight for a healthy pace. I love that. And I think every followership listener is this is going to add value to their life. And it's added value to mine. You know, you and I are always talking about. pace and especially with mine and starting two podcasts this year, which was so smart, right? And dude, it's, dude, thank you so much, man.

I just, I appreciate who you are as a person. I appreciate who you are as a leader. I appreciate who you are as a friend. And, dude, everything that you've said today and shared, man, I just, I really appreciate it. I am so grateful to Nick Nelson for taking time out of his busy schedule to be. on follow-off. I actually worked for Nick for a whole summer. I did an internship and he was a youth pastor at the time

in Rockford, Illinois. Let me tell you something. He was easy to follow. It's easy to follow a leader that one is good at their job and one does their job with the utmost integrity and he challenged me on several occasions and as a friend he has challenged

me through the years and I so very much appreciate him. I've got a couple of takeaways for you that I think are very important that I don't want you to miss. He talked about healthy pace. And I think COVID-19, perhaps the blessing in disguise of COVID-19, is it slowed us all down. And whenever there is some sense of normal schedule or going back to know, whatever that looks like for you,

I want you to evaluate what you say yes to and what you say no to. I want you to ask yourself, do I have a healthy pace? The second takeaway is this. I want you to better understand your leader. and know what questions to ask. And honestly, when you have a question and you're fearful to ask it, I want you to be brave in that moment.

And you know what? Sometimes we might feel stupid or you should know the answer to that question, but you know what? The only way that you're going to learn is by asking that question. And I almost guarantee you there's somebody else in that room

probably has that same question for the leader and they were just afraid to ask. And so be brave. Hey, today's episode, add a value to your life. I have in any way, shape, or form. That's what I want you to do. I want you to share with a friend.

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