The Ryen Russillo Podcast - 1998 Redraftapalooza, Sleeping Dirk, Free-Falling Pierce, and the Craziest NBA Draft Ever With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: March 31, 2020

Russillo is joined by Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan to revisit the 1998 NBA draft and some of the legends in that draft class, before redrafting the first 15 picks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

hey what's up i hope everybody's doing as well as you can thank you so much for listening honestly whenever you guys reach out and say hey the the podcast the karate kid thing which a lot of people like check that one out the rewatchables bill and i break down the karate kid the redrafting stuff that we're doing which we're going to do today. So the entire podcast today is Chris Ryan, Bill Simmons, and myself. 1998 redraft, an incredible draft. I'm not going to set it up too much

because Bill kind of does that. He's running the ship on these redrafts. So thank you, thank you, thank you for checking out the podcasts as much as you have been and letting us know that you enjoy them during a certainly trying time this thursday i don't know which famous guy we're going to roll with first

maybe a big time showrunner that's a term for a guy that runs a show you create the show you sit in the room you run the show although showrunner doesn't necessarily always have to be the one that creates it but you know what i digressous rappers, maybe even a few jazz musicians. We got a lot of stuff going on. A lot of stuff. So we're excited about that. One thing that I do want to talk about, as I've mentioned with Bill, and I said this with Cowherd when I went on a show of Fox Sports this past week was that I'm always kind of fascinated, like what are the, not always unintended consequences, although I always love that one because it's just hard to figure out

ahead of time, but what will happen with payroll? What will happen with compensation? What will happen with decisions that leagues will have to make here? What are some of the things that we can't predict right now? What are the conversations? Like this stuff is just really, really interesting. And it's always prefaced with, yes, the most important thing is not sports. We get that. But one thing that I did with Bill where hours after the season was suspended, and I probably touched more on this on Thursday because I've kind of reworked this open that I want to do this opening rant.

But my whole position was, let's give people some time to figure this thing out. But that's then been turned into that all I'm doing is sticking up for billionaires all the time, which is definitely not the case. But if you're simple and that's the way you want to decipher it, then go ahead and do that. has done a lot of things that most all of us reasonable people even down the middle would say hey the ncaa needs to do a better job with that you know you're paying coaches a ton of money you spend money on all sorts of stuff to prevent whatever you can from actually paying the players and the players should be paid more to what degree we're all over the place on that one right but the players should be compensated a little bit more but the general feeling is the ncaa makes a decision and everybody hates the decision and the ncaa made a decision and everybody hates the decision. And the NCAA made a decision this week in the face of all of this stuff to extend spring athletes another year of eligibility. So I'm like, okay, cool. Like that looks good. And I'm like, okay, here we go again.

All the people in the media that hate the NCAA, instead of just saying, hey, the NCAA, which I don't like, they did something good here. It's no, I can't even bring myself to that. And that's what I don't understand. I don't understand why you can be anti-owner, but you could also think it's reasonable to give owners some time to navigate through this. And for some owners are going to screw it up. Some owners are going to do nothing. The Bruins situation is brutal. The Sixers try to cut salaries, but I think there's more to it that goes on than we understand because most of us never run a big business. And some of them are just evil. And some of it is about benefits and what people are eligible for and trying to get through all of that. And yeah, I don't think all

120 plus pro owners are going to do the right thing at all. That was never my point. And I don't think the NCAA does the right thing the majority of the time. That was never my point. But I do think it's something you should try to challenge yourself to do. It's like, I don't like this thing, this entity, this business, this person, this billionaire, but in this instance, this one specific thing and whatever that is, you'd be like, Hey, I think they made the right decision because the NCAA allowing eligibility, despite the complications that come with it. And some questions that still aren't answered in the time that the NCAA had to put into this to try to figure out financial aid scholarship counts transfer rules and all this different thing um these these are these are two things in the last few weeks where i've been like oh wait a

minute so everybody's doing this again now you're demanding nba owners to have a solution the next morning after the jazz thunder game that seems to be. And that was always kind of my point. And it's been, I don't even know if it's misunderstood. I just think that that's how people are. I think people are programmed to go, well, I've always felt this way about this thing, so I'm just not going to change my mind. Like, I hate the NCAA,

so why would I give them credit for doing something that I think is good? Let me just try to find a way to be negative about it. So I think that's the overall point. That's the point that I'll always try to make with stuff. There'll be things that I don't like that I'll go, I actually agree with what they did here. Try it. Today's episode point that I'll always try to make with stuff. There'll be things that I don't like that I'll go, I actually agree with what they did here. Try it.

Today's episode of the Ryan Russula podcast on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by state farm. Just like basketball. The game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected teammates. Hmm. Um,

let's see here. Oh, you know what was expected? Sorry. State farm, not unexpected ESPN bumping up the Michael Jordan documentary April 19th. April 19th. We've seen some of the stuff.

We've talked about some of the stuff behind the scenes. This thing's going to be insane. And I actually think a younger generation of NBA fans, that I don't blame you. Most people don't want to go back and watch YouTube games. More people are doing it now. But I really urge you, if you're somebody that tries to argue generational players,

go watch some of those guys that played before. Crazy idea, I know. But this Jordan thing is going to help update his standing and update his perception because you're going to go. And I wasn't like some massive Jordan guy growing up at all, okay? I just wasn't. It's not like I didn't appreciate it or I didn't have those weekends in college where it was the NBA on NBC. And that's just what we did. We just watched the NBA. It's actually very football-ish, uh, how into the NBA we were on the weekends. Um, which I don't know if that was, I don't think that was rare. I think that was very common back then day NBA, NBC games where you were just like, this is what we're doing. Um, and Jordan was a big part of

that, but I wasn't always rooting for Jordan. I just appreciate it the whole time. If he was on, I was going to watch, but I wasn't, it wasn't something where I was obsessed with him at all. Like, look, I liked Barkley. And then once I started getting my roots down correctly, you know, I started liking the Celtics more later, which was the worst because I ended up liking them during times where it was like, yeah, why didn't you like them before? I was like, well, cause I just like Barkley that much. So the Jordan thing will be, you know, you're going to see some of these things for those of you younger that are listening to this, you're just going to go, wait a minute. So he had 41

a game in that son's Barkley final season in 93 series. He had 11 assist a game in his first finals, I think against the magic led Lakers. So what I did there, that was a Tariqo where I said the sentence wrong, but I fixed it on the fly. Although he would have fixed it a lot better than I just did. So yeah, there's going to be some of you that are going to go,

I knew kind of Jordan's deal, but my God, and the fact that every other player that talks about him, talks about him in such like just awe. And there's a few people on the earth that deserve awe and mj is certainly one of them so there you go get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected talk to a state farm agent today shout out state farm let's do this podcast bill simmons is going to take the lead all right it's the 98 redraft when i asked asked Chris Ryan to do this, and I told him the draft and the other co-host other than myself, Ryan Russillo, I think it was his greatest moment of 2020.

It's not a great year for any of us, but this is going to bring some levity and some happiness to all of us. This is the fucking craziest draft of all time. I have a Simmons crapshoot rating for each draft, which I use the acronym scrap for. This is a 10 out of 10. It is unbelievable. It was unbelievable. It was happening. It's unbelievable to look at now. It's probably the only draft where you could actually do a documentary about this draft, and I would watch it for two hours. Chris, what's do a documentary about this draft and I would watch

it for two hours. Uh, Chris, what's your biggest memory of this draft? Uh, I mean, mostly just the disrespect shown to Rafer Alston. No, I mean, it was the, it was the trades and it was, uh, it was definitely the formation of that, of that Don Nelson Mavericks team. Oh, how about you, Ursula? The Mavs thing is a headline because not only did they add Dirk in this, they added Nash. And that was a trade. I have some amazing research that I did this morning

on reactions from local markets on some of the stuff, which I know is right up your alley because I know you're probably going to read us the Boston Globe from three straight weeks. But there was a couple lessons in it for me. It was still we hated Euros, okay? We still hated Euros because it's like, who's this Dirk guy? And then the Dirk impact on what it meant for every other tall white guy

for like the next four or five years because people didn't know what to do. It was learning that Don Nelson is like the last guy you want to sit at a poker table with because I was lucky enough later on years later like some of the guys in the front office of Celtics story who were part of that draft room Chris Wallace Leo Papil like they told me all about it and they were awesome telling me the stories being like we knew Don we knew Don Don was going to figure out some way because the Celtics thought they were getting Dirk and then the oddity of oddities is like like you how did Paul Pierce go 10 it doesn't

make any sense yeah so I can forgive like the Dirk stuff is there was a curve back then but the Pierce thing is still I mean it haunts any Sixers fan who thinks of the name Larry Hughes I did a draft diary

with my dad at his old house and shout out to the old house. And you know, I'm taking notes, but then I'm also going to run, uh, you know, over the computer and type all the notes in.

And my notes are, but we think Pierce is going to go in the top three. He's either going to go two to Vancouver or he's going three to Denver. And we have our fingers crossed for Nowitzki. Now this is the late nineties. We don't have nearly the information highway we have now. We don't have YouTube. We don't have any way to look these guys up. There's just some, a couple of people writing about this guy who kind of seems like he's the German Larry Bird. And he has this one game overseas that had the scouts drooling

and he has three-point range. That's all we know. So obviously we fixate on this guy immediately. Like, oh, let's get the German Larry Bird guy named Dirk. This is right after Boogie Nights, Dirk Diggler. Paul Pierce, we watched in college. Like there was no way he was falling. So when he starts falling,

by the time Philly passed him, we just assumed something bad had happened. And I remember running over, his computer was in the other room. There's no wireless back then. Running into his office and Googling Paul Pierce drugs, Paul Pierce cocaine, Paul Pierce scandal. I swear to God, I did this because I was like, something sinister is happening. But no, it was just everybody fucking up. But I mean, that's a realistic recounting of how crazy this was, right? Yeah. I just love the idea of Simmons doing background, last minute draft background via dial-up on Netscape. Yeah. You weren't even Googling. What was your search engine? Yeah, that was AOL.

You were going to AltaVista? That was AOL. And it would take 45 seconds to log in. And it's doing that. And I'm like, I just want to find out if Paul Pierce has a cocaine problem. You probably could have paid a Boston cop

to run a background check in the amount of time it took for you to log that on. just going to pass on him. Like Philly taking Larry Hughes over Iverson. Sorry, Chris. I mean, over Pierce when he was the perfect guy to put next to Iverson and the Philly fans would have loved him. It's insane. In retrospect, Larry Hughes was a guy, he was 19. He was open about I'm coming out because my family needs money. I know I'm not ready yet. Like he was basically telling people that, and it didn't really make sense with Iverson either. I'll never understand that one. Yeah. I mean, the only thing I would say is that what we learned a couple of years later is that no one really made sense with Iverson because the people who made sense with Iverson were Eric Snow

and Aaron McKee. It wasn't Stackhouse or Van Horn or Jimmy Jackson or Larry Hughes. And maybe it wouldn't have been Paul Pierce. It might have just been, we need four scrappers to stand around while this guy does his thing. So when you think about all the legacies of this draft, Priscilla, the Celtics, after having terrible, terrible, terrible luck with Len Bias and Reggie Lewis, stumble into Paul Pierce, who becomes a top 40 all-time guy. Dallas shrewdly pulls off this trade with Nowitzki. It's still unclear why they just didn't take him at six and why they were so confident

that if Milwaukee at nine takes Nowitzki, they'll be able to flip him. Like what if Philly took, just went off the board and took Nowitzki at eight? What if the Celtics traded up to eight to take the whiskey and then Dallas just as stuck with tractor trailer. That's an amazing sliding doors. And then you think about Philly,

if they had ended up with Pierce or new whiskey to put with Iverson. Now we're talking top 50 guys. It's weird. Cause in the moment, the legacy of this draft seemed like it was going to be this vince carter jameson trade right riscilla yeah because that's that's its own topic because if you watch unc that year jameson was the guy he was 22 something the game shamad williams was the second leading scorer and vince was taking 10 shots a game and he was really guy like he just

he wasn't jameson and they're both juniors coming out so that one actually made a little sense you're like yeah jamesison should go ahead of Carter. But, you know, when I think back to the Larry Hughes part of this, because it's all still connected. So I think we're going to kind of repeat ourselves in certain moments. But like Larry Hughes, this is so long ago. Larry Hughes is part of a trade because Philly got him out of there immediately. Because Chris, you're right.

Like nobody's a fit with Iverson. If Pierce had ended up at eight with Philly, guess who would have gotten traded after three years? Probably Pierce. Like no one keeps, no, there's no basketball player in the modern era If Pierce had ended up at eight with Philly, guess who would have gotten traded after three years? Probably Pierce. There's no basketball player in the modern era that keeps his team more hostage than Allen Iverson by his style of play. And that's what we learned about it.

It's exciting and as much as it was for the culture and all the cool parts of it. And I'll save this for my 96 draft, but there wasn't really ever a perfect fit unless you were a guy who was like, I actually don't like to score, which is all the guys that Chris just mentioned. But Hughes was gone from Philly so fast. He was part of a Billy Owens trade. Tony Kukoc ended up in that deal. And when you really break down either, you're

right, because as much as the Jamison Carter thing was the headline in that flop, looking back on what Don Nelson knew and what the Celtics are trying to do, the Celtics are trying to get this misinformation out there that, ah, you know, even if Dirk's at 10, you know, there's some international signing conflicts, which didn't even make any sense, but that's what they were telling other teams and trying to scare him away. And from what I was told, they went to bed the night before the draft being like, Don Nelson's going to, he's going to fuck us. Like he's going to figure out a way to do this. And so I think what happens there, instead of just taking Dirk at six, Nelson knew what

Sacramento was doing. He must have known what Philly was doing. So he only had to worry about those two teams. He must have known way more than the Celtics maybe thought he knew about their situation. And the fact that they added the Garrity pick, where they took the garrity um kid out of notre dame at 19 and they flipped that for steve nash so like don nelson had to have gone to bed that night after the draft being like i'm unbelievable yet most people even in dallas thought it was stupid and people in milwaukee were like what an idiot this guy is for giving up

on Robert Traylor which you can find this stuff anywhere but Dirk was still this unknown I went back to a mock draft this morning he wasn't in

a Sports Illustrated mock draft Dirk wasn't in any of the 30 picks he wasn't in the first round and we can't overstate

it seemed risky in 1998 to take a foreign dude that didn't play in college. There was still like a real bias against it. But I just remember. Yeah. I remember when number nine comes up and I'm with my dad and somehow miraculously Pierce and Dirk are on the table. And at that point, we don't know who's going nine.

Who did you want? So we have this three-minute conversation as they're kind of trying to figure out what's going on. And both of us were afraid of Pierce. We thought, honestly, we thought he was falling for a reason. And I'm embarrassed to say it now, but both of us really wanted Dirk. And that's crazy. We kind of looked at each other and we're like, who do you want? And my dad's like,

I think I want this Dirk guy. I think he has a chance to be special. I want the footage of this where Bill is screaming for Bonzi Wells at this moment. No. Well, you think about it, though. We had no intelligence or evidence at all that Dirk was going to be good. We knew nothing other than a couple things we had read in the sporting news. I remember there was one draft guy back then who was online.

I can't even remember the name of whoever it was. And that person had mock drafts. And other than that, how the fuck would you know anything? But for whatever reason Dirk just seemed like a safer pick Even though he was a 19 year old German kid so anyway that was

Phenomenal we also should mention You know One of the fun things about this draft was the Clippers Had the first pick and this is the Height of the Elgin Baylor Oh they'll fuck up anything At all times. And everybody,

there's rumors that they're going to take Michael Oluwakandi, who at that point is 24 years old. So he's five years older than Dirk DeWitski. He's playing for Pacific. There's not really a lot of, you know, evidence that he could be a great player. There's questions about his motor.

And the joke was like, oh, this seems like a classic, terrible Clippers pick, but they won't actually do it. They're not actually going to take them. They'll take Pierce or Mike Bibby. And then they actually took them. And it was one of those things where immediately you knew it was going to end badly. Right. Do you guys remember watching this and just being like, oh, that's going to, he'll be a bus. There's no question. Right. Yes. Um,

you know, we can, we could do that thing where it's, it's really easy. No, but this was an in the moment deal. There's plenty of times where we'll exaggerate how we felt or, you know,

it's, it's hard to even remember that moment, but that was a, you know, Rafe could go one Pierce could go one, you know, Bibby here's a side question just to marinate on this one. Would Bibby go higher in the draft today,

considering the shape he's in, than he did in 1998? There was all of these names, like even Jameson. And then the other part was like, well, what happens if Rafe, should Pierce go one? I mean, Pierce legitimately was talked about in some circles of all these different possibilities. And then the Ola Wakandi thing picks up. And we cannot emphasize enough, as Bill has, it was just hard to kind of chase down this information.

But even in a world where none of us were going on Twitter to rip a rumor about this, whatever circles we were in, we were like, are the Clippers really going to fucking do that? This big guy from Pacific? And he played a lot longer than people probably realized, but it was immediate that the lack of impact that he was going to make was immediate once you watch him play. And the other funny thing was a year later, which we're going to cover the night and night draft when Lamar Odom is available right around the range where they'd pick. And it was the exact same sequence of events. Like, wow, it'd be hilarious if that's who they ended up with.

Like the resident head case in this draft. What a terrible idea. Well, but it was just like, what a terrible idea on all sides for Lamar Odom, who has a chance to go to the Clippers. This, everyone loses if this happens. And naturally they took him.

Chris, what do you remember about Olo Candy? I don't remember anything because my interaction with prospects back then was almost entirely based around college basketball and specifically like March Madness. I was like, I was a Temple fan and I obsessively watched the tournament and the conference tournaments.

And I just remember being out of my mind about all the Arizona guys. You know, I remember, you know, Bibby and Miles Simon and Dickerson and just kind of being really fired up about a bunch of those teams. But even if you wanted to go down a couple of rungs and talk yourself into Doliacs or like those kind of guys, I just don't understand, where did Ola Wakandi come from?

Like, where did that hype come from? And if they didn't take him at one, there's a chance he falls to the bottom half of the top 10. That Clippers team was 17 and 65. And I guess, granted, it's hard to put yourself in Elgin Baylor's mind. He's one of the worst GMs of all time. But the team they had, they had Rodney Rogers, they had Brent Barry.

I think they had Brent Barry at that point. Lamont Murray. Lloyd Vaught was still there. He was hurt. Eric Piekowski. They needed a center. And this was still in the era where teams were like, we need a center.

Well, it doesn't make sense to take Paul Pierce. We'll still need a center. We just got to take all the candy. It was also back when age wasn't really as important as I feel like it is now. We look at somebody who's 24 now. They're almost like a finished product. What's wrong with this guy?

Yeah, they're pretty much, they are who they are. But in 1998, for some reason, they were like, although Candy's got a lot of upside. Even in the draft, when he got taken, they were talking about his, Doc Rivers I had in my draft diary that year, he used the word upside three times in 10 seconds for the TNT broadcast,

which I compared to DiMaggio hitting in 56 straight games. And then Baylor, they interview him, and he calls him Ola LaConda. He doesn't even say his name correctly and said he has a lot of upside. It's weird that they thought a 24-year-old guy would have upside. Like nobody would think of that that way now. So I think it's one of the reasons this draft was so broken.

What do you remember about Mike Bibby going second in the time? That was a reach. It felt like a reach at the time. Just because you still had both the Kansas guys on the block. And you have to remember what Rafe was when he was healthy was really, really good. And Rafe was probably

one of the original stretch bigs because you thought, man, this guy's going to be able to do all sorts of stuff. Like he can spot up, face up. He can attack you on the block. Like all of this stuff was really important.

And he was almost ahead of his time. And had he stayed healthy, I think he actually would have had a really good career. I thought Rafe was a good player. Like I'm not saying a perennial all-star or any of that kind of stuff. So even Bibby at two, which you would heard could possibly happen in whatever stuff we were reading.

It was, you were still going, wait a minute. Both Kansas guys are still available here. So that's what I remember. At least with Bibby at two, it wasn't like outrage. It wasn't Ola candy. It was just, I can't believe the Kansas guys are still available here. So that's what I remember, at least with Bivia too. It wasn't like outrage. It wasn't Ola Candy.

It was just, I can't believe the Kansas guys are still there. And Denver went 11 and 71 that season, which they were honestly one of the worst teams of all time. And they had their leading scorers where Eric, where Eric Williams only played four games, but then Corey Alexander, Lafonso Ellis, Bobby Jackson,

the team had nobody. It's weird in retrospect. I love Lafonso Ellis in Notre Dame. Well, it's weird they didn't take Pierce. I don't really understand that three. I guess that's how highly that people thought of the friends back then. But it just seemed like the mentality now would be like, oh,

we get Pierce. That could be the number one scorer for us. The Vancouver Grizzlies things, they're just looking for bodies. I loved Mike Bibby back then. And I felt really vindicated on those Weber teams when he was basically the guy with the balls on those 0-1, 0-2 Kings teams. He was the guy they ran the play for, stuff like that. i don't have a huge problem with i didn't have a huge problem with bibby at two at the time because i really liked him in college it was tough cycling through those arizona teams though because they were all so good but then you didn't know like look i'm not trying to say mike bibby could potentially be miles simon but miles simon was an awesome productive player at Arizona. But I missed on that. I missed badly on that one, but he was a

guy that I was like, I don't see it. I don't see it. So sometimes I'd be like, so wait a minute, Bibby. And this is just, again, being young and you know, you haven't done your thousands of hours of watching it from a critical eye. You're just a dude watching this stuff. And our opinions are probably even stronger back then. at least for me i sometimes are the arizona guys i was i was right about simon i was right about jefferson i didn't realize that bibby was going to be as good and maybe i just sort of was downgrading everybody um too much collectively because they had a ton of guys and they were good teams but there would be like real highs and lows based on their pro potential chris you said you were a tempo guy.

Have you given up on Mark Macon yet? Or are you still thinking it might... He might... I think it... East Coast Toby Bailey? Yeah, when they have like... When they reduce the big three to the solid two, and it's just two on two, I think Macon comes back in.

Macon was amazing for me. Yeah, he was a god. He was another one I missed on. I missed on a bunch of 90s guys. I really liked Montross. I got to say, when the Celtics took him, I was like, this guy, great jump hook, good footwork, knows where to be, where to go. And he's pretty good as a rookie. I never really understood what happened. So one other plot from this draft was just how weird the Vince Jamison trade was, So one other plot from this draft was just how weird the Vince Jameson trade was. Where I think it was usually they waited to announce the trades till after the first round.

In this one, the names were so big. They felt like they kind of had to do it. So they had the hats. They both came with their picks, but pretty much immediately. They had to basically say, no, Golden State, don't get too excited. We're actually switching those guys. Peter Vesey was reporting on the draft that year. And he said, Toronto's taking Jamison for Golden State at four. The Warriors are taking Carter for Toronto at five. And then he reported, there's also some money changing hands. And that was it. We still don't know how much money it is, but when you guys look back at that,

Vince on Golden State, is he better off or worse off? No. That version of Golden State, the Cohan version, I don't... Yeah, and I don't think he's better off. No, because the Finns think from the beginning, you were like, wait a minute, what? Like, what is this? Like, a guy can do this in an nba game like how come this guy didn't score

more in north carolina like i i think vince needed everything to be his own the way it was now maybe he would have been happier staying in golden state because as much as everybody loves vince now he was one of the ogs of get me the fuck out of here um which got really weird um and why anybody would rather play in Newark than Toronto um I'll never be able to figure out but wasn't the I don't know the rules on it now I don't even know the full figure now but wasn't the cap about three million I don't know what it was in 98 but three million was the most you could put into a trade deal yeah it was it was something like that. Well, we also had the lockout coming. So who knows if that had a factor. And it's weird though. You look at the 99 Warriors, John Starks, this is after the

draft, John Starks, Daniel Marshall, Chris Mills, Jamison, Bimble Coles, Terry Cummings, Eric Dampier, Jason Caffey. It would have actually made more sense with that roster to have Vince Carter than another forward. God, Terry Cummings still? Geez. Oh, yeah. He played for a hundred years. God damn.

Terry Cummings is one of the first guys. I was like, man, that guy. And then you were like, oh, that's right. They just lose to all the other good teams in the East in the playoffs every year. I don't know. I mean, that one's tough to say, hey, Vince's thing would have been different. I don't know that it would have been different because it was so incredibly impressive physically

because then it became kind of this thing, at least that first year, like, wait, Pierce is going to be awesome. And then you're like, but wait a minute. It's Vince Carter. It was, it was very, if you had said in in 98 after watching Carter and Pierce play those first few months of their rookie seasons that Pierce is actually unquestionably going to have the better career than Vince, no one would have believed you. No one.

Because the Vince thing was exciting and it made Pierce look slower just because he wasn't Vince. So I think Vince would have been him no matter what. I don't know if he would have stayed in Golden State longer, as you mentioned, with the whole Toronto thing. But I can imagine, as i said kind of earlier with the jameson thing i'm sure plenty of teams probably looked at jameson as the more solid nba pros so to want him um makes sense to me even 20 years later was there a weird thing with that with that carter jameson trade where like the raptors had liquidity issues or anything like where they

needed that that payment because they had been so bad over the beginning part of the franchise. I felt like I read something when I was researching where it was maybe an interview with Glenn Grunwald, but it was essentially about the money changing hands was an essential part of the deal. Yeah, it might have been. Well, so two things were going on this season.

One is the lockout's coming, and everybody knows that. One of the frustrating things about this draft was we knew it was a mother load of talent. And there were guys that we specifically couldn't wait to watch guys that were going to fun situations. And then it was just pause button for eight months and basketball didn't come back till February 99. So this draft happens end of June 98,

eight months later, all these guys are suddenly playing. Nobody's worked out. The rosters are thrown together. There's a ton of movement. There's teams that were put together in like five days and they're getting thrown together. The other thing was that that 97, 98 season leading into the, into the, uh, lockout for whatever reason, some of the teams were just terrible. We mentioned Denver won 11 games. Toronto was 16 and 66. The Clippers were 17 and 65. Golden State was 19 and 63.

And Vancouver was 19 and 63. Denver was 20 and 62. So you had six teams that were 20 wins or less, which is really, really unusual. And they were bad. And this was like the league had expanded too much. There wasn't enough talent to begin with.

And the lockout kind of reset everything, but, um, really, really strange times. Um, yeah, like there would have been,

there would have been zero teams with less than 20 wins this year. If they finished out the season. Just to put it in perspective. Right. So we're going to do the redraft. Wanted to mention a couple comedy highlights from the draft that I've dug up on my draft diary. After LaFrance got drafted,

Rick Majerus was the TNT guest analyst. He immediately compared LaFrance to Adam Keefe and we met it as a compliment. And if you're a Denver fan, you can't be excited. Like Paul Pierce is still on the board and you took great from France. And then Rick Majerus is like, he reminds me of Adam Keefe. So that was a problem. There was another moment. You mentioned Bonzi Wells earlier, Chris. When he got drafted, they cut to him in the green room. He was surrounded by family members. They were all wearing matching white fedoras.

They looked like, I said it looked like a notorious B.I.G. video. The Minnesota Timberwolves in this draft, in 97, they drafted Paul Grant, a whiteorious B.I.G. video. The Minnesota Timberwolves in this draft, in 97, they drafted Paul Grant, a white stiff center. In 98, they drafted

a Slovenian white stiff center, Rado Nusterovich. So they went back-to-back centers. Congrats to them. My dad was convinced at some point in this draft that everyone was wearing the same suit.

And if you look at Carter and Jameson, um, their suits are very similar. And he thought there was one suit backstage that they were all, this was before everybody started making fun of the suits and people put real effort in it. So the suits are great. Uh,

at the end of the first round, Turkey's beer, sad Turk can, was that his name? You remember him or so low? No. Okay. I mean,

I have it. I have it up in front of me here, but yeah. Well, Rick, Rick Majerus compared him to Moses Malone. So that, so that happened.

Where, where did he compare him to Moses during the telecast? He gets drafted. Rick Majerus immediately dropped the Moses blown. He gets drafted. Rick Majerus immediately dropped the Moses blow. I thought it might have been like Shooter's Sports Bar

or something like that. Yeah, he played one season with Houston. I didn't remember him all that much. He was he was 6'9". I don't know.

Not great. And then the other thing. One of the reasons that we had I can't believe we didn't mention this yet. Oh, wait a minute.

He was on the Knicks. He was drafted by Houston. My bad. This was the Rashard Lewis draft. This was a really kind of iconic draft moment where Rashard Lewis is in the green room. He's a high schooler. He thinks he's going to go in the lottery. He starts dropping.

They cut to him a couple of times. He's getting sadder and sadder. They do a couple of montages followed by the guys coming back being like, I don't understand why he hasn't been drafted yet. Then they cut to him. He's by himself in the green room. There's nobody else there. He's near tears.

Seattle takes him 30 seconds. So he doesn't get the stern handshake. And as he comes out, he, uh, he's crying and this became a seminal draft moment and actually like a good part of his story. But after that, they were much more careful about who should be in the green room and how that, how that should all play out. It was pretty, pretty, uh, emotional at the time. So it's one of the Yeah, it's one of the worst green room nights in NFL NBA history. Really.

Yeah, it made the Aaron Rodgers thing seem like a Farrelly Brothers comedy. So, if you're going to look at these drafts, and I do the five-star rating, so if you come out with a draft, the super-duper star that's five stars, all-timer four stars, franchise guy three stars,

all-star two stars, quality starter one star. We did not have a super duper duper star in this draft. Like on the Tim Duncan level, I think Dirk is super close. But I think he's close. Wait a minute. Dirk isn't? How tough is... What do you have to be?

You have to be a top 10 all-time guy or top 12 you have to be Hakeem you have to be Kobe you have to be Duncan you have to be on that level I have Dirk as a four star Pierce as a three star

Vince Carter two star Jameson one star Bibby one star Rashard Lewis one star and then for just just really good starters Al Harrington Larry Hughes

Coutinho Moby Jason Williams and Rafe LaFrance no Ricky Davis yeah Ricky was you know

Ricky was 12 years in the league yeah before we actually get to the drafting of these guys, let's hear from ZipRecruiter, because the best teams start with great talent, but finding the right people can be a challenge.

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That's good in sports and good in business security. Visit ADT.com forward slash game day to learn more. That's ADT.com forward slash game day to learn more. That's ADT.com forward slash game day. So I thought we could redraft this and figure out

do you want to do it just what the order should have been or do you want to do it who the team should have taken or do you want to do both at the team should have taken? Or do you want to do both at the same time? I have order should have been, but I can do it,

which either, which either. All right, let's do order should have been. Okay. Chris, you have the first pick. Rosillo, you take the second pick unless you want the third pick.

You want trade up? You want trade down from two or you want three? Snake draft? No, it shouldn't be a snake draft for this. I don't care. I'll just take the second pick. Why? Do you want to take Pierce?

I'll do three. So you get, Chris, you get one, four, seven, ten, and thirteen. Rosillo gets two, five, eight, eleven, and fourteen. And then I'll take the other ones. Chris. Okay. So I'm take the other ones. Chris. Okay.

So I'm on the clock. You're on the clock for the Los Angeles Clippers with the first pick of the 1998 draft. So the Los Angeles Clippers select Dirk Nowitzki. All right.

So let's talk about this. Let's say this is actually how it played out. Would he have made it? Yes. He's too good to have not made it but they would have screwed him up in the beginning but i don't think he was he would be screwed up like he probably would have been traded somewhere else and i i just think if you're that good you you work out no matter what your situation despite at that time the clippers are the worst team you could have been drafted to yeah i mean in some ways i wonder whether or or not Pierce would have been a better Clipper

at this pick. And if he goes on to become like a franchise legend there. But, you know, with hindsight, you have to pick Dirk. So here's the counter to that. So when I did the Book of Basketball podcast with Mark Stein about Nowitzki's career, he talked about when Dirk was a rookie, there were high expectations. It was such a great draft. All these guys were in there. They traded for him, all that stuff. And they put Nash with him. And he had a really tough time that first year. And the expectations really weighed on him. He had Nash as like his support system, but he was like a fish out of water. And everybody around that team said like Nash, basically adopting him and teaching him how to be an adult,

looking out for him, things like that really helped him. I do think there's a world in which I don't think he would have flamed out on the Clippers, but I think he could have gone badly. And then somebody else would have traded for him three years in. I do think there's a world where it could have gone badly and then somebody else would have traded for him three years in. I do think there's a world where it could have gone badly though. Because only because I'm judging it by the entire 90s and 2000s with the Clippers,

how many talented guys they have and none of them really made it except for Elton Brand. So who knows? It was such a toxic environment. The other thing with, you mentioned about them taking Pierce there. He was an LA kid.

That actually would have been just from a marketing slash we have to do something. The other team in our city has Kobe and Shaq. It's really weird that they're like, let's take Oluwakandi over the local kid.

I'll never understand. The other part about the Oluwakandi pick is they had just drafted lorenzen right in the lottery and i'm not telling you like lorenzen right was a stud but he did play a long time and it was almost like they drafted a completely different body type of the same exact guy number one two years after and now they had lorenzen right in there and they're probably thinking okay like they didn't draft a little candy expecting to be a duplicate of the guy that already had two years prior, but that's who he ended up becoming statistically.

So- Russillo, why don't you admit to everybody right now that you were a huge Lorenzen Wright guy? Because I can feel it in your voice. I liked him. I'm not going to lie. I liked him. Did you like him more than Strohmeyer Swift? No, I don't think I like anybody.

I don't like it goes Barkley 1 Moses Malone 2 Strohmile Swift 3 Mursad Turk K and 4 I didn't realize that this whole LSU thing was just deep-seated I'll do a Tyrus Thomas segment with you guys later if you want to

so talented apparently the personality just overpowered all the talent yes tyrus is a legendary a legendary you don't want that guy on your team guy and you i remember you and your dad tweeting about glenn davis and wanting him more than tyrus thomas and you guys you guys are right about that you called you're like yeah we got that we got that guy from lsu all right so lorenzen Wright yeah I don't have much more to add to that but I I kind of sneak you're up on the rotation oh you're on the clock you're number two you got to take Pierce I mean look I don't think the Dirk Pierce debate is really much I just don't uh this

one's even easier because I don't I love love the Vince thing of, of thinking in the beginning of it all. Imagine 20 years later going, Pierce is going to have the better career. And he had the better career. He had much bigger playoff moments. Yes. He had a better team around him. The Carter bad luck stuff is,

is totally true, but I don't, I mean, if, if I mean the right, are we in consensus on this one? There's no other choice other than Pierce or two, right?

No, it's the, I think this is how it's the one. I think this is how it should have gone. Dirk one, Pierce two. And then I think Vince Carter, who I'm taking third with Denver, is... I struggle with the Vince Carter, Jamison thing. But I also really do think that

the Toronto thing fucked up Carter in some way. I don't really understand it. His exit or being there? Something about... I remember going to seeing him in Boston his first two years. And especially the 00-01 season

when he went head-to-head against Iverson in the playoffs. That was his best year. And there was a game, I think it's even on YouTube, where they beat the Celtics in Boston on a buzzer beater by him. That was like a fall away 20 footer. And I just, if you were just saying at that point during that season, who's going to have the best career out of Vince, T-Mac, Kobe, Iverson, Pierce. There would have been a really good

Kobe versus Vince argument. I really actually thought Vince's ceiling was at the Kobe level. And he was 25 points a game. He could do everything. I don't know what happened. And I do wonder if he had even gone to a team like Denver, at least it's in the United States.

I don't know if the Canada thing screwed him up. I've never been able to unlock why he was so unhappy there. It never made sense to me. What do you guys think? Well, he had, I remember when he ended up in New Jersey and the haul that Toronto got for that was brutal. Although I always loved Jack Aaron Williams of the Nets. Yeah, me too too there was a guy

that was doing a game that told me this story that you know Vince was like getting ready to to like walk into the court or whatever he was like

how you doing big fella and Vince was like you know good to be back in America like he just he really hated living up there and I can understand too

like if I was a kid who grew up in the SEC like I try not to judge somebody somebody think like we probably think canada's great i went to school basically you know on the border of it but you know if you're a kid from the south or you're a different part of the country you just might be like i don't i don't like this idea my family you know it's another country and all this different stuff and he wanted out of there toronto got nothing back luckily it was toronto because they probably still retired his number because they're so nice. And I think they did a tribute video, two tributes to DeMar DeRozan this year. So when, um, when I think about Vince though,

I can't help but go through the playoff resume because you're right. That, that one point lost to Philly in the Eastern conference semis. So the second round in 2001, that's probably the biggest playoff stretch he's ever had. He had a 50 in game three. He had 35. He had 39 in game six. But other than, what, a three that he had with Dallas in a game? Was that game six in 2014? I'm trying to remember this off the top of my head

as I'm scrolling through the game logs. Well, he was 28 a game in the 001 season, his third season. He's 26 a game, second season, 28 a game, third season. I said this to Hassel when we did the 97 redraft. I do think people overrate his career in a lot of ways because- Well, I agree with you. Yeah. do think people overrate his career in a lot of ways because well i think if you ask yeah if you ask somebody under 25 who is better vince carter t-mac i think a lot of people would say vince carter and the reality is it wasn't close t-mac was much better than vince carter as a number one guy chris what do you think happened to vince carter i don't know you know a part of me is like you know i know he spent three seasons at Carolina,

but to what Russillo is saying, like one of the stories you read a lot about guys is like they just didn't want to really leave college. Like they were just really, really happy where they were at school. I know Rasheed Wallace was like that. And when Vince left that playoff series with Philly to go back and get his degree,

that was one of the original kind of like toxic sports talk flashpoint moments that I remember in my life. Yeah. And it was like a huge deal. So yeah, I think that to some extent the Canada thing, it was just a lot different in 2000 or, you know,

in the late nineties than it would be considered now with like Drake and how cool it would be to live there. I also think you have a lot of people in your life at that point who are all telling you Kobe's bigger than you.

He shouldn't be or as good as him. You're getting paid right away because that was before they had put in the rookie scale. So you had a chance to make huge money basically after your third season.

And I can see it. I can, I can, it was a variety of events, but I wrote about it in 2004. And then I basically took what I wrote in 2004 and put in my basketball book. But I went to games when he didn't try. I went to a Clipper game in 2004 when not only did I try his body language,

which was terrible. And everything about the performance was basically like, I just want to get out of here. And you talked about how bad the trade that Toronto got for him was. It was because he was torpedoing his way out of there.

And that was why they booed him for 10 years. I think it's too bad. I think he was as talented as Kobe and T-Mac and all those guys, offensively at least. I think it's also worth mentioning that back then, if you were not in what we consider a major market,

and back then Toronto was not really a major market, you didn't really get seen that much. Yeah. It's not like there was this... It was not like there were like... It was league pass, and there were people watching five games a night on the regular like that. If Vince Carter was in Toronto, if somebody was in Denver there were like, it was league pass and there were people watching five games a night on the regular like that.

If Vince Carter was in Toronto, if somebody was in Denver and Denver sucked, like you just didn't get watched. I agree. Um, before we get to the rest of the draft, I want to do some draft facts, courtesy of Zach Cram from the ringer.

We call these Zach's, uh, there are four 20,000 point scorers in this draft. Pretty good. Dirk Nowitzki, the best ever number nine pick by wind shares. Paul Pierce, the best ever number 10 pick by wind shares. Not close in either case. In the lottery era, which 1985 on, Ola Wakandi, the second worst number one pick by Winshares, ahead of only Anthony Bennett. We won't know about your guy Markel yet, Chris, where he fits in that.

The best undrafted guy, do you know who it was? Brad Miller, undrafted out of Purdue. He is the second most accomplished undrafted player of his era behind only Ben Wallace, the other top undrafted player of his era behind only Ben Wallace, the other top undrafted players from this year. Earl Boykins. Mike James. 2004 champion.

Mike James. There you go. Chris, you're on the clock with the fourth pick. You're picking for the Toronto Raptors. This might be mildly controversial, and this is definitely a totality of his career thing and probably also a how basketball is played thing, but I'm going to go with Rashard Lewis.

Wow. What do you think of that pick, Rosillo? Statistically, it's the pick. If you did the VORP number here, let's see what is in Winshares. It's not Tyson Wheeler. So that didn't sort correctly. Uh,

yeah, Lewis Lewis is statistically the guy. Um, I would rather have my pick here in, in Jameson. I just would. Um, Rashard Lewis to me was, was the absolute poster child

for complimentary player. Like, I know what his skill set, I know what his size was, I know how he could stretch. Houston couldn't get him there fast enough. But he was, to me, like a guy who got... And I'm not even anti the contract, but there were moments where you'd forget he was, to me, like a guy who got – and I'm not even anti the contract, but there were moments where you'd forget he was even out there. So I would rather have somebody who was a little bit more comfortable

when a bucket needed to happen, even though he doesn't have – Jameson doesn't have – at least Lewis was a big part of what happened in that Cleveland loss in 2009. So I'm not knocking him, but I just, mentality-wise, and I know the stats favor Lewis, I would take Jamison. The Rashard Lewis run from 2004 to 2009

is pretty eye-opening. He is not the first guy you would think of with ahead of his time, like the way you would think with somebody like Ray Allen, ironically who he played with. But for that six-year stretch, he's 19 a game, six rebounds. He took six threes a game, 39% from three for six straight years.

You figure if you put him in 2020, what's he shooting, 11? He's 12 days a game. So I think he's 39% for his career. Yeah. He's got green light. You know, I think not only would do, I think that was a really good pick,

but you could make an outside case for him against Vince. If you know, all right, if I have Vince, I'm going to have this guy who thinks he's the best guy, but I'm never actually going to win anything with them. Versus if I have Richard Lewis, I know this guy could be the third best guy in a title team. I just got to get the other two guys. So you're taking Antoine Jamison for the Warriors at five, Priscilla? Yeah. But did

you just retroactively kind of overrate Lewis? Because this is always my battle with this. Are we worse in the moment or are we worse looking at somebody's stats 10 20 years later and in the moment I'll I'll just remind everybody they were almost like Lewis is a guy that hit a corner three you were like damn it he was open he hit that three good for him there's zero assists marginal rebound numbers he was a really expensive, really tall, straight out of high school, ahead of his time, spot-up shooter.

I guess my problem with Antoine Jamison, who is going to make the Hall of Fame because he scored 20,000 points, and when he gets in, I think he's going to be probably the least talented

Hall of Famer we've had the last 20 years. He would get his 20, he'd get his 20 and 6, his 20 and 7, whatever whatever the team never won. It never felt essential or consequential. He was in a bunch of different situations, right? He was on golden state for six years or five years. And you look at that Oh three golden state team. And that team was pretty good. They had him. They had Gilbert Arenas.

They had Jason Richardson. They had Troy Murphy. They had Eric Dampier when he was actually good. Little Bobby Sura in there. Mike Dunleavy. And they went 38 and 44. I just always felt like he was this guy that the stats made it seem like he should be making a max or a close.

But if he was one of your two best players, where were you going? Whereas at least with Lewis, if he's the third best guy, I think he's just a better fit with whoever your best two guys are. Is that, did that make sense? It makes sense because you're making my point that Lewis is the complimentary

guy. Like, I don't want to turn this into Anton Jamison, some incredible stud that's been overlooked historically, but you know great in that series, the Eastern Conference Finals in 2009 against Cleveland. Against the Lakers, he'd go for 34 one game, eight the next, 21 the next game, six the next. Boston, that Eastern Conference Finals series in 2010 is a classic Richard Lewis one to me. 42 minutes, six points. The next night, 41 minutes, five points. Then he plays 27 minutes, four points. 13-14.

The last game of the series when they lost by 12, he played 41 minutes and scored seven points. So he was never a guy that I was like, hey, bail us out of here in this situation. And I'm not saying that Jamison is the epitome of bail me out guy, but I just would trust him in that situation a little bit more. I think it was telling when Jam uh, Jamison went to Dallas and oh four, and now he's on a really good team, right?

And this is in technically the prime of his career. He's playing with new whiskey. He's playing with Michael Finley. He's playing with Anton Walker. Uh, he's playing with a young Josh Howard. Marquis Daniels is on this team. And, you know, he just wasn't that great for them. He was the fifth leading scorer in the team.

I think they thought it was going to be this transformed a moment for him. But when we actually saw him on a good team, I think it was harder for him to fit in as a complimentary player. So I guess we're making the same point. Yeah. I think we're all on the same page. I think both of them were complimentary stars. Neither of them were actually. So I'd we're making the same point. Yeah, I think we're all on the same page. I think both of them were complimentary stars. Neither of them were actually.

So I'd rather have Lewis, but I think it's a good debate. I'm at number six, which is the Bucs. This is the last no-brainer pick to me, Mike Bibby. I really, I don't know what happened to him the second half of his career, but I was just a huge fan of his. He was good in the playoffs. Like he had some,

he has some scalps from the playoffs. Like he basically ended the Steve Nash era in Dallas in 04. He kicked the shit out of him in that series to the point that Dallas was like, eh, we don't want to pay Nash. I thought he really went toe-to-toe with those Lakers teams a couple times.

And I don't know what happened to him second half of his career, but I really liked his game. Yeah, I don't think there's any debate on this one. Yeah, you know what Bibby was? Bibby was one of the first, and this is always something that's important, especially when we're talking about Portland

and all that stuff, where we used to be worried about guards that scored too much. And now, if you're a point guard or can't score, you can't play in this league. And Bibby was a great example of how good it can be

when it's somebody who can get you buckets, even though the assist numbers are probably lower than people realize. I think that was a product of his team though. That team had so much of his team passed so much out. Yeah. It flowed through the big guys and Weber and Divac had the ball a lot. He's always like,

as soon as they got him, that team fell into place. White chocolate was so much fun, but the Bibby piece was what they needed. You look at his stats in 0-2. 0-2, they were the best team in the league, and I think they should have won the title. And

the Lakers escaping that series is, in my opinion, a fluke. I really did think the Kings had more talent. Now, they also choked at home in a Game 7, which has to be calculated. Yeah, but he had 29 in that game. You're right.

You're making great points here. He's showing up in these spots. Bibby was 20 a game in 16 playoff games that year. 44% shooting, but 42% threes, taking four a game. And he was also their best free throw shooter.

And I think if Pages shows up in that game seven, I think they advance. And you think they had two shots to win that series and basically blew both of them. He ends up... His career starts to get weird around the mid-2000s. He was still... I mean, he was 21 a game in 2006.

And then gets traded to Atlanta. And it just kind of goes south. And I don't really know the reasons for that. Chris, you're up number seven. We should have rigged this so you could bring it for Billy. No, but we just have to mention there's nothing better than Bibby ending it in New York. His last year was with the Knicks. Yeah.

They have to have a record. How many point guards have ended in New York? Oh, I mean, at least at Baker's Dozen. Plus, almost every guy from the late 90s lottery winds up ending their career in New York at some point. Baron Davis. Yeah, right. Steve Francis. Steve City! I used to love when Jalen Rose

would do that. His nickname was City because he went out so hard. Yeah, that's... Marbury. Although he ended up in Boston. Let me ask you guys this. For redraft purposes, to what extent do you guys

when when can we make an aesthetics pick like when can I make a right it's a redraft you're at number seven

with the Kings I'm drafting there are no rules I'm drafting Jason Williams then I think it's smart I think that's the right pick well at this point it's all at I think that's the right pick. Well, at this

point, it's all, at least with white chocolate, I don't know. That 99 season was pretty brutal, and that 99 Kings team was weirdly important from just a basketball fan standpoint. Remember? That was one of the only fun teams we had that year.

I liked them. Rosillo is just disgusting. Okay, it was fun. Like all of us. liked them rossillo is just disgusted okay it was fun like all of us you're like what is this like what what is this i was watching clips of him today yeah i go it was it was unbelievable like just to see the game the way he saw it uh it just you almost wish like could more guys kind of want to do some of this stuff and then i go remember when he couldn't shoot though remember when i know it's i think a lot of it all the time so and and walk out of huddles and get suspended for weed i know and he had i'm not even talking about that part of it he's an overrated player the highlights for sure have us remembering

him as this dynamic guy when he was really kind of one of those dudes it's like a lot of this stuff is really fun but none of this shit leads to winning he'd actually fit in perfect in today's game he'd get 30 a game to be meme central and you'd be like cool they're 30 under 500 he'd be a mentor i would just sayivarius some of this is like nostalgia because he was such a stark contrast to a lot of the way the basketball was played back then

I don't really love anybody it's fun yeah I don't really love anyone that's left so I don't mind that's why I mean like

yeah that's the thing is I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get that excited about Al Harrington sorry oh I did I bet can I I have one way chocolate defense for you Rosillo and you're right to get that excited about Al Harrington. Sorry. Oh, I did. I bet.

Can I? I have one white chocolate defense for you, Rosillo. And you're right. His shooting was really abominable. He's a career under 40% shooter, which is pretty hard when you're a point guard. But he played 30 minutes a game for our title team in Miami. In 06. And I don't know.

That at least tells me out of all the guys we have left there's somebody that we know could be a top seven guy for a title team because he was so you're on the clock I was going to leave that out

because it's a great I'm glad you brought it up actually because it is a good point of him sort of salvaging his career and finding a way to totally change and help a team that was pretty good.

But well, he was also, he was good on those Grizzlies teams though, too. Yeah. I'm just thinking like, I don't know if people really realized that watching those games though, it was fun,

but you, it was almost guilty. It was almost like this thing where, um, I don't know every analogy I'm coming up with. They're just not going to do it, but I know what you're guilty. It was almost like this thing where, I don't know, every analogy I'm coming up with, they're just not going to do it. No, I know what you're saying. It was like,

I'm enjoying this, but I know it doesn't mean anything. Right. Yeah, but I just, I think that, especially for the age that I was at then, that actually was, that was fine.

You know what I mean? I think the empty calorie part about it was pretty fun. Well, and also, if you're redrafting it for the actual moment, I think the empty calorie part about it was pretty fun. Well, and also, if you're redrafting it for the actual moment, he did have value in that whole Slam Magazine early internet era. Yeah, absolutely. We didn't have a lot of fun guys back there, but I do think even though the percentages don't back it up at all,

he was one of those guys that knew where to go and what to do, which I think was valuable. And that was why he fit in on those Grizzlies teams. And especially that Miami team, he, he didn't do a lot of what he couldn't do. And he was always in the right places and, you know, simple stuff. Like he knew how to throw an entry pass. He knew how to get Dwayne Wade, the ball on the left side in the spot. Dwayne Wade liked it. Things like that. You're in the clock with Philly number eight, Rosillo. I just want to check with my area scouts here. Double check what I'm doing.

I don't actually want to do this because it only, we're sticking to some of the advanced metrics here a little bit more than I thought we would, and I don't want to, but I'm going to take Coutinho Mobley. Mobley got you buckets, and he's never a one. I'm not saying that, but before he started having some of the medical stuff towards the end there, he was somebody you're like, this guy's really good. He's good. And some of those Houston teams, if you look at their records, then they were a little erratic and everything, but there were some decent teams in

there and I thought Coutinho Mobley ended up becoming somebody who was a second round pick out of Rhode Island that had a really nice career for him and who knows it could have gone longer and then he dyed his hair gray for the big three but I always like Coutinho Mobley me too I had

him seventh on my list and I actually yeah I had him seventh on my list. And I actually... Yeah, I had... I'm with you. I thought it was a better career than I think people remember. He's also weirdly forward thinking for what his career was. He's the kind of guy that everybody would want now, right? He has, from the 0-2 season, really now, right? He has from the O2 season,

really through the 07 season, his last good season, he's 39% from three taking four plus a game. I got to watch him on the 06 and basically the last four years of his career, but really the 06, 07 Clipper team. So I was going to a lot of those games. I'd season tickets. I was really impressed by him. I really liked this game. I, uh, he was lefty going hard to the basket sometimes, which I liked.

I thought he was a good three point shooter. I thought it was a gamer. Him and Casel were really good together. And don't you think like mobile mobile? He's the guy that wasn't really afraid of anybody. Like he thought he was better in a good way. You know, we always talk about that outsized confidence,

but I looked at Mobley as a fighter and a guy that was like ready to go. So everything I'm backing up everything you're saying on that part. Yeah. And you know, he's one of those guys that he just wasn't really ever on a good team other than that 2006 Clipper team that year. He was 13 a game, 12 playoff games for them, playing 40 minutes a game.

I always liked him. He always carried himself like somebody who was better than he actually was, which was weirdly valuable. Okay. We're going

with the number nine pick. This is Dallas. This redraft's a tough beat for Dallas. They go from Dirk DeWitzki to whoever I'm about to take. Corleone Young, Bill.

Come on, go for it. Is Corleone still available? Yeah, he's still on the board. Rashawn McLeod, St. John's transfer to Duke. That was Duke's, I think, first transfer in in the Coach K era. Might have that wrong. Ryan Stack out of South Carolina.

Ansu Cisse. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm taking Rafe LaFrance number nine. And here's the case. He got hurt. Maybe there's an alternate

universe where he does get hurt, but you actually look at the stuff, especially the first couple of years that he was doing where he was basically the first, let's see, four years, five years of his career. He is basically 13 and eight and he could shoot threes, which I think if

you had the right coach was like, oh, to stretch five that I could just put 25 feet from the basket. He could shoot threes. That might be cool. He obviously didn't find the right team. Then he went to Dallas. Didn't really work out. And he was starting, his knees were starting to bother him. That point goes to the Celtics.

Just a disaster of a trade. Plays 17 games his first year. Kind of rallies back 05 season, which was a playoff season for them, where he was basically 11-7 his last good year. But he's somebody like, if you have a big who can shoot threes and give you a 13-7 for seven years,

that's not bad. So he's my pick. Really? I mean, I'm kind of surprised here because I thought you would have gone for because I thought you would have gone for I thought you would have gone for Harrington here I just never liked Al Harrington's game but he had a way better career

than Rafe LaFrenz right? way better? well a better career than Rafe LaFrenz? I don't know I just I just feel like you can find Al Harrington's. I can find these guys that could potentially be 12 and 5 on a really good team or on a bad team. Like on those Atlanta teams, he's put up 19 and 7.

The teams are doing nothing. I don't know. I was never a huge fan. I was sorry. I love Harrington. I was never a huge fan. I was sorry. I loved Harrington's rationale, though, coming out. He's like, my family does pretty well,

so I'm just going to go. No, seriously. People like he's not really ready. He's not big enough. You're like, yeah, whatever. I mean, he was the number one high school recruiting rank. And he just because, you know,

even if I go late, it doesn't matter. Like the family does pretty well. I think you're dissing Al Harrington here a little, Chris. You think I am? So this is my pick, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can take Al Harrington. I know, but I really... If you like him so much. A couple of guys who are a little closer to my heart. Okay. This is for the Celtics, by the way, so you can really screw us

if you want. You can give us a little candy. I'll take I'll take I'll take Matt Harpering here for the Celtics.

Are you just being a dick? Yeah. Come on. Make a real pick. Come on. No, I'll take it. This is an official redraft. Here, you get Harrington.

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That's MackWeldon.com and promo code RyanRosillo for 20% off your first order. Okay, so the top 10. your first order. Okay, so the top 10. We have Nowitzki, Pierce, Carter, Lewis, Jamison, Bibby, Williams, Mobley, LaFrance, Harrington. Here's where those guys were actually selected.

9, 10, 5, 32, 4, 2, 7, 41, 3, 25. In case you're wondering if the draft was a fucking crapshoot, the draft is a fucking crapshoot The draft is a fucking crapshoot Rosillo you're up with the number 11 Pick which was Detroit

So does that mean You're gonna go 12 Chris goes 13 I go 14 And you're done or you go 15 I'm going 15 cause I just Wanted another pick Yeah I know that that's cool Thanks He shouldn't have lasted this long Rafer Alston I'm 15 because I just wanted another pick. Yeah, I know that. That's cool. Thanks.

He shouldn't have lasted this long. Rafer Alston. Oh, Rafer. That was my heart pick, Russillo. And he had some amazing runs in this career. He did. Let's see. He didn't get into the...

What did he play? His first... He didn't even play in that first season. So, 98-99, he's not playing. And then he didn't really play until 0-3-0-4. So, I'm not telling you he was awesome, but he proved that a lot of people were wrong. Sometimes guys actually get better too.

Let's not kid ourselves. I mean, he was 27 when his career started kind of taking off with the Miami team, but he was a solid kind of that early 2000s kind of point guard who was never going to be a star, but was a tough dude and found ways to compete with guys that are probably more skilled than him. I remember Daryl took over the Rockets

for the 06-07 season, which Rafer was already on the team at that point. And I remember talking to him about the guys on the team who you keep in, who do you like? And he was saying, the stats, we actually like Rafer Alston. We think he's actually a good piece for us.

And I remember looking at the stats and being like, what? Because you go look at his field goal percentage just from 04, 38%, 41%, 38%, 38%, 39%, 38%. That's a six-year stretch for him. And at that point, you're just looking

at field goal percentages and his assists weren't that high. I'm like, really? Ray for Austin? I like his handle, but now you look at the three point stats and he was taking five a game in 06. He took six and a half a game in 07, five and a half a game in 08. He goes to Orlando. He's taking threes for them and he was always in the 35 to 37% range. He had two really nice runs. The 08 Rockets where they won 22 straight. He's a big

part of that. And that Magic run. And the Magic. If anything, when they brought Jameer Nelson back in the finals, it was one of the things that screwed him up. I like the pick. Good job, Brasillo. What team had the number 12 pick? Hold on. I'm looking him up. I like the pick. Good job, Brasillo. Who is,

what team had the number 12 pick? Hold on. I'm looking that up. Uh, Oh, this was Orlando. Ironically. Um,

it's now disrespectful that Larry Hughes hasn't been taken. So I'm just going to take them at 12. I mean, you know, he, is it still too early? I'm taking him for Orlando. He, he scored 20 points in a season.

Didn't he? At some point he had to. Yeah. Let me double check here. Um, and he, uh, he had 22 a game, his third year in Washington. He still was only 26. I mean, he was out of St. Louis at 19, just after one year. And 23 a game

in 2000. He only played 32 games for the Warriors. But I remember when see that O2 thing, he becomes a free agent and House's team signed him, the Wiz. And House was fired up. At that point, Larry Hughes was

like 24 years old. He could play the one spot or the two spot. It seemed like he had the potential to go up and be even better. And then that 05 season with the Wiz, when I think he's playing with Arenas at that point, he's 22 games,

six rebounds, five assists, 2.9 steals, led the league. Larry Hughes was good. Then Cleveland traded for him and for whatever reason, playing with LeBron, add him to the list of people who played with LeBron

and immediately became much worse. When I think of Larry Hughes, other than his time with the Sixers, the first thing I think of is combo guard. Yeah. And the idea of how seductive the combo guard was,

it was like you were getting two guys at once. It's like, hey, well, look, he's a combo. So he can play a little off ball. He can play a little on ball. That was the huge selling point for Hughes and Philly at the time. Priscilla, don't look this up, Priscilla. I'm pushing back on something, though.

No, but don't look this up. How many teams do you think he played with during his NBA career? Don't look at it. Larry Hughes? Yeah. Six? Seven? Eight!

Wow. Also, if you don't think there was a Knicks run in there, you're lying to yourself because there was a Knicks run. The Knicks, where all point guards

go to die. Push back on something. The Cleveland thing. Wait a minute. Do you actually think guys get worse with LeBron? They statistically may take a dip

because they don't have as many shots. Like, Kevin Love, does this think guys get worse with LeBron? They statistically may take a dip because they don't have as many shots. Like Kevin Love. Does this mean he's worse with LeBron or he was just putting up massive numbers in Minnesota because nobody else was on the team and he could do whatever he wanted. I'm just asking you. I'm just asking you who made a leap when they joined LeBron's team. Just name me one guy.

Every team. Every team is one loss record. Yeah. I'm talking individual players. I just don't think like Bosh has two choices. Go back to Toronto and have nothing happen of significance other than stats and take a massive

dip in stats and win a couple rings. So I've heard this argument before. I've never heard you make it where Larry Hughes went from 18 shots a game with the Wizards to less than that, but his three-point shooting went up. So I think LeBron, if you're looking at raw stats and playing with him, you're going to see dips from guys that were putting up numbers somewhere else,

but I don't think they're necessarily worse players, and certainly the team isn't worse. My case is we've seen it now for 17 years. LeBron, when you're his teammate, you're expected to do a couple things. If you think of a chef and you're like, hey, man, I can do this. I can make stir fry.

I can make pasta. And LeBron's like, no, you're going to make sandwiches. That's what you're going to do. And that's what you do when you're LeBron's teammate. You do the things that to fit into the framework of the team he likes to have. You're just doing that. And I don't think Larry Hughes was a guy like that. I think Larry Hughes suffered playing on LeBron's team. I don't think he was ever the same when he went there. I can't ever lose this argument, though, because it's like, yes, when you play with Iverson, you have to play a certain way.

You set screens, you watch another guy shoot the entire time, you cover him defensively when Iverson... But no, and guess what that leads to? Nothing of significance other than a fluky 2001 Finals run because the East stunk. I think most... Sorry, Chris. It's okay.

That was really mean. Now we're in. I think most alpha dog stars, though, usually teammates have to sacrifice a little piece of their basketball self to kind of fit in with the larger frameworks. That's why I always gravitate to guys like Magic and Bird because those are guys that you put

players with them and they figure out how to actually make them better and pull out another level of those guys. I just don't think there's a lot of evidence of LeBron doing that. It's my case. The counter to that always will be, did the team always win?

Whatever he's doing and having other guys do and whatever they're giving up. But remember too, that Larry Hughes Cleveland run, that Cleveland thing started off a whispers of LeBron potentially leaving or not being happy. So Gilbert was doing, this is why I've always pushed back on Gilbert's cheap. Gilbert always spent because he took on everybody else's contract. He'd be like, okay, Larry Hughes still has money left. Boom. We'll bring him in. Okay okay so what else is going on drew gooden okay zerbiak um ben wallace will resign so he was doing this thing and larry hughes was part of the beginning of this where they were trying whatever they could to throw any talent at lebron to make lebron feel

better about the situation i just think there i've heard it before probably too many times that's why i got fired up about it but that because traditional stats dip when you're with LeBron, that somehow you're a worse player. I don't, I don't necessarily think those two are the same. That's all. Would you rather play with LeBron or play on a different team where you could get more shine? I know you have a giant ego. You'd want to, you'd want to be on golden stake on 38 and 44, but you're averaging 25 a game. You'd want to be on Golden State going 38-44, but you're averaging 25 a game. No, I would hate losing. Trust me. I would hate, hate losing.

But yeah, I would be a very typical NBA guy in that I'd be like, let's get that first deal. Let's get like 26 a game. And then, all right. And then I'll say LeBron. This is why you love Antoine Jamison. Right. Like, hey, look. Like, I'd start following LeBron on Instagram

and be like, oh my God, your kids are cute as hell. You know, just leaving comments left and right. And be like, when he would tweet out something about WNBA salary,

I would like quote tweet and be like, tell him, King. Preach. And they'd be like, fucking Rosillo really wants to play with you this summer.

Be like, no, no, dude. He's just, he's a good fam. Rosillo would go to LeBron and summer. Be like, no, no, dude. He's just, it's good fam. Rosillo would go to LeBron and be like, so I have some ideas of the offense. And LeBron would be like, here's my idea. Stand over in the corner. Sometimes I'll throw you the ball. Just make sure you make it or I'm going to blame you.

And then I'd probably get traded. I'd probably get traded a year and a half. You know what I wouldn't do is the Isaiah Thomas thing where as soon as I got to the team, I would start telling LeBron he took my MVP. I wouldn't do that. Listen, LeBron is the surest 55

wins a year regardless of his supporting cast that we've had since Bird and Magic and Michael Jordan. It's not a criticism. It's not a criticism. It's just a fact that when guys went to his teams, they had to sacrifice something

because he has the ball all the time in all these different situations. And that's just the way it is. Chris, you're on the clock. 13. Let me see who this actually was. This was... This was...

This was Keon Clark. Oh, it's Orlando again. So Orlando has 12 and 13. Great pick. Wait, you actually took Keon Clark? No, this was Keon Clark. Oh, I thought you were excited. I thought you were actually taking him.

Okay. No, I'm going to take Harper in here. Okay. I want to take Harpering here. Okay. I want to take Bonzi, but I understand that that is flawed. I understand that there's a lot that goes into picking Bonzi, but Bonzi was one of my real cult figures in this time period. Thoughts on Harpering, Rosillo? I like Harpering.

I did. I like Keon Clark better. I don't think traditional stats tell the Keon Clark story. I feel like I let Russillo down by not taking Clark there for sure. Can you compare and contrast your game with Matt Harpering's, Russillo?

No, I'm more athletic. Or was. Matt Harpering, 18 in the game. Matt Harpring. 18 a game. Matt Harpring's a good player. Yeah. Yeah, 18 a game in Utah. All right, I have a...

Wait a minute, it's me, isn't it? Oh, you're up. Yeah, you're up. Okay, well, if we're doing this, if he landed in an alternate universe, may have been healthy. Give me Michael motherfucking Dickerson. Because that dude could ball when he first came into the league.

And unfortunately, he was really hurt and couldn't make it happen. But his first couple years in Vancouver. Well, wait a minute, Houston, then Vancouver, he lit it up. He went on this stretch there in that 99-2000 season where I was like,

this guy's awesome. So, maybe I'm wrong. And he signed it. No, I'm with you. He signed one big contract and it was totally worth it. And then he just got hurt. But, you know, could he have been Michael Finley He signed one big contract and it was totally worth it. And then he just got hurt.

But, you know, could he have been Michael Finley if he doesn't get hurt? Like, maybe. I really liked him. I thought, I'm with you. It's weird when you do the redraft and that's something. Like him and LaFrance, I think, are two good examples of if they don't get hurt, it's a completely different discussion. But I like that pick. Okay.

So the 15th pick was Orlando again. Orlando had another pick. They 12, 13 and 15. Yeah. They had 12, 13 and 15, or at least according to basketball reference.

What? All right. So wait a minute. They did key on Clark though. Did he play, they must have traded him out no they kept all three I think no he was traded to Denver

oh no no he wasn't traded draft night he was traded right before the deadline so he made it like half a season there that was part of a key on dueling thing. All right. All right. For the people listening, we have one pick left.

And here are the choices. Bonzi Wells, Rasha Nesterovich, Ricky Davis, Nazi Muhammad, and Ruben Patterson and his electronic tracking bracelet. Could the Kobe stop her? Ruben Patterson and his electronic tracking bracelet. Could the Kobe stop her? Ruben Patterson, one of the rare NBA players who actually was not allowed in one of the states

where they played NBA games because of his criminal behavior. Ruben fucking Patterson, man. Ruben. Ruben Patterson Google dive is fucking tough. There's some dark shit that would not have flown in 2020. It didn't fly then. Yeah, it didn't fly during an era when a lot of things flew.

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I'm going Bonzi. So here's the case for Bonzi. He peaked at 17 a game with Portland. He had some, some good moments on Memphis too, when they were a playoff team, Bonzi was like playing for winning teams for the first eight years of his career. And I always felt like, um, one of the things I liked about him was he was one of those guys. If he was like playing Kobe, he thought he was as good as Kobe

was where it's like, Oh, this is great, he thought he was as good as Kobe was. Where it's like, oh, this is great. Now the two best players in the league get to go head-to-head. That was his mindset. And I also liked his game. I liked how he could post up. He could shoot threes. He didn't make them, but it seemed like he could make them. But he has a really weird 0-6 playoff thing

with the Kings. In six playoff games, he averages 23 and 12 rebounds. I have no explanation for it. On Portland, seven game series, which they lose, I think, to the Kings. He was 19 and 7.

Also, pretty nuts. He was pretty bonkers. Also, pretty nuts. Yeah, he was a big... Pretty bonkers. When you think about eyeball emoji over an NBA story in 2020, it's like we don't have a lot of guys who just don't show up for road trips.

Yeah. That was a thing that happened in the late 90s and early 2000s is Bonzi Wells getting suspended because he just didn't show up for a plane. He could score, man. When he would score, though, too, I think part of it was you'd be watching Bonzi

and you'd be like, what does he have right now? I'd be like, the dude has 20. You'd be like, he has 20 already? Yeah. And he should have gone instead of Michael Dickerson. I mean, I was having some fun there at the end. But Bonzi being the last pick, too low? Because he did, you're right, Bill.

He had some stretches there where he was scoring against other guys. So would you say that he had a similar game to Pierce? I'm trying to remember like Bonzi in action. Kind of that unimpressive win again thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I Googled Bonzi Wells arrested. Here's what came up.

Great. First story, Ball State star arrested for battery. Second, Bonzi Wells tells his side of legal fight. Third, Thugs R Us, which was a jailblazer story. Jailblazers, fourth story. Fifth story,

Bonzi Wells fined by Blazers after gesture toward fan. Sixth story, Portland forward strapped of co-captaincy. Those are your first strips Bonzi Wells fined by Blazers after gesture toward fan. Six story. Portland forward strapped of co-captaincy. Those are your first stripped six. Stripped of co-captaincy. Was he strapped and that's why? Wait, what?

Stripped. Those were the top six? For Bonzi Wells arrested. Yeah. So there you go. All right. So to recap our top 15. Number one, Nowitzki, number two, Pierce, number three, Carter, number four, Lewis, five, Jameson, six, Bibby, seven,

White Chocolate, eight, Mobley, nine, LaFrance, 10, Harrington, 11, Alston, 12, Hughes, 13, Harpering, 14, Dickerson, 15 Bonzi Wells. Any apologies for Ricky Davis not getting picked here? No. When I heard the story about a team meeting and he was supposed to be at some function and he was like, sorry, I rented a boat. And they were like, what? He's like, I rented a boat. I'm not losing the deposit.

I can't lose a deposit. They were like, Rick, we need you. We need you here. I'm like, I rented a boat. I'm not losing the deposit. I can't lose the deposit. They were like, Rick, we need you. We need you here. I'm like, no. He could score. He's probably better than some of the guys we named. But I mean, hell, what are we talking about? You just took Bonzi Wells.

I took Dickerson who had like two good years. So Ricky Davis should have gone in the lottery. But I think all of us. No. We've all had enough experience with him. The Boston stories from him in the mid-2000 I think all of us, we've all had enough experience with them. They're the Boston stories from him in the mid two thousands where they felt like they pulled off this amazing steel to get a guy who is still young and could average 20 points a game and all that stuff. They get him from Cleveland.

He's the first one who's like, Hey, this isn't LeBron's team. It's my team. And Cleveland's like, we're trading you now. Goes to Boston. He's pretty good. And he was actually pretty popular with the Celtics fans, which is really weird to think back on. But they're hit a point where I think internally,

Boston was like, we have to get him away from Paul Pierce. He was like in the 90210 episode where Steve Sanders makes the new friend and who introduces him to all these different things and you just know the guy's not going to be on the show very long but bad things are going to happen for Steve Sanders Paul Pierce you could see

his 05 behavior is like really erratic and weird that's when he gets kicked out of the Pacers game in the playoffs and takes his jersey off. They lose by 30 to Indiana and they almost trade him that summer. And he was, he was, a lot of it had to do with he was trying to keep up with Paul Pierce.

I mean, with Ricky Davis on and off the court. Ricky, I think along with Allen Iverson, one of the legends, one of the off-court legends. Like, did not sleep. The people that he would put in for tickets that would come to games, things like that. Like, just, yeah.

He moved around. There was a reason for it. Any last words? Let me ask you guys. I wanted to ask you guys if there was anybody in this draft that even now today, you're like, I still hold stock on this guy. I'm not really willing to give up on Felipe Lopez.

Who do you have, Ursula? Well, Felipe Lopez was a tough one for me, the St. John's thing, because he's on the cover. Can't wait for the season. Zendon Hamilton ended up being the better player. Yeah. And I was like, you know, it just kept going. on the cover can't wait for the season zendon hamilton ended up being a better player yeah and i was like you know it just kept going like each year at saint john's you'd be like okay he's not as good he's not as good i think nazar muhammad should have at least been mentioned here let me

figure out somebody here who i kind of like corleone young was available for quite a while um he went 40th i remember reading Corleone Young stories and being really excited. You know who I did? I'll admit, I kind of liked Oliac a little bit. I thought he would be better. That Utah team was really good. They beat Arizona, right?

I really... I also liked Oliac. I'm with you I had the same feeling you had Who was the guy you mentioned right before Doliak? I think Nazir Muhammad Yeah, I like Nazir He was good enough to be a rotation guy for a really long time

And had some better peaks than just that So Nazir Let me check his last year He played 18 years, dude Can I take you back to the late 1990s And various conversations I had You know, he, like, God, let me check his last year. I mean, he played 18 years, dude. Can I take you back to the late 1990s and various conversations I had in bars at Boston being upset that we didn't take Nazir Muhammad

and that we should have known because Antoine played with him? No way. You should have told them. Wait a minute, at 10? You wanted that to happen? Because remember, Antoine was actually pissed off they took Pierce instead of Nazir Muhammad because of the confiding thing.

No, not at 10. I was just mad that we didn't figure out a way to end up with him. Where did he actually go in the draft? I thought he was second round. Yeah, Nazar went 29th and that was the last pick in that year. Right. Nazar went to Utah. Yeah, and my point is

I was upset the Celtics never swooped in and grabbed him. I'm telling you that Twan was upset I was upset the Celtics never swooped in and grabbed them because at that point I'm telling you that Twan was upset he didn't go 10 go back and read that stuff

you might be right who is your guy that you still hold stock in Chris you never told us I mean like the Felipe Lopez thing was a bit

but it was the same thing with Rusillo where it was just always like a St. John's guy coming in, usually a New York kid who seemed like he was going to be the savior of the program. Other than that... I have a guy.

I mean, Rosillo, I do. Am I remembering Shimon Williams too fondly? No, because he was a baller in college. Yeah, so I'm going to go with Shimon. Yeah. I think I have to go with Shimon. Yeah. I think I have his jersey still from UNC. My guy is Miles Simon, who went 42nd in this draft.

And this was at the height of me overrating guys' performance in March Madness and just assuming there was an immediate 100% correlation to NBA success. We learned the hard way with Miles that that wasn't always the case. But I like this game and it's weird.

I'm looking at his college threes. He made 176 threes in college. He was an 18-point-a-game guy in college. It's guys like that and Bo Kimble. And there just seems to be no rhyme or reason for who succeeded in college, who's like a 6'4", 6'5", score. And then it just doesn't translate at all.

And then other times it does. And I've stopped trying to figure it out. Yeah, like Aaron Brooks, when he worked out out of Oregon, the little score, the guard, and he started putting up numbers for Houston. You're like, wait, so it's going to work with this guy? For whatever reason, I was anti-Simon back then.

I was. Like I said, look, I'm sitting here telling you I like Doliak, which I was really bummed when Bill immediately was like, I like Doliak too. So people can go, oh, two white guys from Boston really like Doliak in 1999. But I immediately made my switch to Nazir Muhammad only because that's how I felt about it can I leave you with a re-readable on the redraftable real quick? you can but can I make one Dolyak comment?

please oh my god he also fit in no he fit into my whole thing he was good in March Madness he was a center on a team that succeeded and made the final four and that was why I was like oh we should get that guy I saw him in March Madness. He was a center on a team that succeeded and made the final four. And that was why I was like, oh, we should get that guy. I saw him in March Madness.

It was still in that mindset. Anyway, you'd be a great NBA coach. People were asking, somebody asked me like, how will this impact the NBA draft? I go, it'll be easier because the front offices don't have to worry about NBA coaches going, who's this kid on Valpo? Right. Like they're in the sweet 16 because that's what every front office guy tells you is like our staff will sit around about NBA coaches going, who's this kid on Valpo? Right?

Like, they're in the Sweet 16. Because that's what every front office guy tells you. It's like, our staff will sit around and watch the tournament, and then they start wanting us to draft these guys. Okay, this is from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel about Tractor Trailer. And it said that he's dropped 20 pounds at the end of Michigan's basketball season, but 40 pounds if you include the start of the season. I thought that was incredible pro-Milwaukee taking him draft. No, he didn't just drop 40 pounds last year. They gave us that he had to drop 40 from the start of the season,

20 since the season has been over. The Wisconsin State Journal said that it's an eight-player draft anyway. Oh, no. Okay. In defending the trailer pick. On the other side, Dallas, a lot of, you know, not everybody, but a lot of people were trashing the trade saying they got a kid from Germany that no one's ever seen play and Phoenix's third string point guard. That was from the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. That was Steve Nash. And then Don Nelson, after the draft, said, quote, Pierce was my second favorite player.

I just think that Nowitzki is going to be better. Well, if Dirk went to Boston to play with Rick Pitino, who we haven't made fun of nearly enough during this podcast. But don't worry. He took it out of the chin in the 97 redraft. He features heavily. In the 97 redraft, He features heavily. In the 97 redraft, he takes it in the chin,

but I think Dirk would have been completely screwed up by Patino within weeks. The funny thing about the Pierce deal, like, Rick was done with Twan, and then he loved Pierce, and then when Rick left, what, a couple years later, and Jim O'Brien

took over, do you remember how significant it was? Like he was making a point to praise Paul on the way out and was making sure it was like, I'm not saying his nice stuff about Tuan. Because Pierce became his favorite guy once he got there because he and Tuan, you know, and look, Tuan was not an easy guy to play with or probably coach either. and Twan. And look, Twan was not an easy guy to play with or probably coach either. I went to a lot of Pierce's early career games those first four years. His rookie year, he would disappear for like five, six, seven minute stretches and quarters. And he'd be like, oh, now I can kind of, he's incredibly talented and I can also see why maybe he fell. And then when his career took off after Patino left, it was like a light switch went on and he just became so much more physical

and athletic and all that stuff. What a draft fellas. We did it. 1998, the redraft. Thanks for doing this with us. Thanks Bill. Okay. Thanks for listening to that. We have them all over the Ringer platform, the podcast network, my podcast, Bill's podcast, the basketball podcast, the redraft of Palooza from the Ringer,

and many more years to come on this one. And more famous people scheduled to join the podcast. Please subscribe as much as you feel the need to. you