The Ryen Russillo Podcast - A CFB View of This NFL Draft With Bruce Feldman. Plus, How Dangerous Are the TWolves, With Jon Krawczynski.

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

Russillo is joined by Bruce Feldman to dig more into his latest mock draft including Cam Ward going first overall, where Shedeur Sanders will land, and which front office seems to be the most dialed in (1:23). Then, it’s another edition of Tales From the Couch to break down OKC’s win over Detroit (44:33), before Jon Krawczynski comes on to share his perspective on how Minnesota can build on its double overtime win on Wednesday night (1:02:14). Plus, Life Advice with Ceruti and Kyle (1:24:32)! Help me fix a work hygiene nightmare! Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Bruce Feldman and Jon Krawczynski Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, Mike Wargon, and Jonathan Frias Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Ryan Russo podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app. Because now you can get the latest updates and follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen or Apple Watch, no login required. Just head to your My Bets page to turn it on and if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and President-Select states gambling prop call. Want to hear a gambler? Visit rg-help.com. Loaded on a Thursday for ya, Bruce Feldman is mock-draft for the NFL, all of his contacts

in the college football world, their thoughts on all of the top prospects, little tales from the couch, little OKC historical perspective. We haven't done anything on Denver, Minnesota. The game of the year because we have John Krasinski who covers the Timberwolves, who's going to talk not only about this team, the fight with Detroit, but being in the building, that double overtime win against Denver.

And of course, an extended life advice. So a lot for you today. Enjoy the pot. With the draft weeks away, love to get the perspective of Bruce Feldman who has a mock out now on the athletic so college football writer and also our guy for Fox College football coverage, the Bruce. What's up, man? Good to see you. Good to see you. Thanks for having me. Okay, I like your perspective

because you're just so locked in with all the college coaches and you go through it So I don't know that there was a ton of stuff in your mock where I was like, wow, you know, that's shocking Maybe you know the ceiling and floor and some of the other stuff that we've seen but let's just start at the top the perspective that you have on cam ward knowing he's had a few stops in college and The coaches that have gone up against him and a guy that you know Maybe in other years isn't the number one pick, but he's a quarterback, he's the best of this group,

and everybody seems to have him penciled into the Titans. Yeah, he is, from the people I've talked to, a notch ahead of Shador or anybody else in this draft. The coaches I've talked to don't think it's actually close. And some of the guys have played both, and also you got to remember, both guys were in the pack 12 a year ago when you had a cluster of first round quarterbacks, Caleb Williams. Uh,

some of those guys played Jayden Daniels before cause he was at Arizona state, obviously Penex, Bo Nix, um, you know, not Drake May, but everybody else. And the guys I talked to thought, Kamor would probably wouldn't be, would be maybe a slight step below some of those guys from last year, but they think he's clearly the best one out there right now. And what they love about him is his competitiveness, his playmaking ability. His arm talent is better than Chidor's. It comes out fast. He can do it from, you know, basically in the RPO game. The challenge with him is

he makes a lot of backyard football plays and a lot of it comes with being really reckless with the football. And he got better at that and then he was earlier in his career, but there's still a lot of concerns. You know, one of the coaches I talked to in the ACC was like, there was a bunch of interceptions that were dropped last year, that bad decisions that he keeps making. The Miami's coaches kind of leaned into, hey, we're not gonna try to change you. We want you to play a little smarter, but they weren't really trying

to coach everything out of him. The other thing you would hear a little bit is, there's kind of a nonchalant style about him. There are some times you watch him in the Florida game at the start of the year where they blew the Gators off the field in the swamp. And there's a play where he's kind of running out of bounds. And if you're watching it, you're thinking, was the whistle blown dead?

Why is he just like casually jogging towards the sideline? And you talk to some of the Miami coaches are like, I think he was trying to draw like a late hit penalty if he could get it on the Gators. He's just, I think he was trying to draw like a late hit penalty if he could get it on the Gators. I think his wiring is a little different. Everybody at Miami raves about his competitiveness and his leadership skills. And that was a big addition for them last year. They were sorely lacking in that spot till he got there.

From the moment that he got there, people at Miami, you know, were just so impressed by him. So I think he's a legit NFL starting quarterback. And I think he is the one guy, the one quarterback in this draft where I was like, okay, you could see him being a star in the NFL. It's not a guarantee, but it never is with quarterbacks. Abdul Qari too, to the Cleveland Browns. Um, I would love that with Garrett. I love when teams have somebody at the

same position and they're just going like, let's just have two of these guys then even if it feels like it's not as much of a need. I was a little surprised at the Vaughn Miller thing, maybe because I have a special place for like the Vaughn Miller evaluation where I think his band is unlike anybody at that size. Not to say he's the best defensive end I've ever seen, but I think specific to him, how almost horizontal he could get to the ground, turn around the tackle, and then somehow just be up and then in position to make the play. As much as I love Carter, I was almost like, man, Vaughn Miller stuff. Where would you put Carter, not so much in this class, but in comparisons to other special edge guys, which he clearly is, but maybe the coaches

and the people that go up against these guys, they keep better track based on the years of talking to them about how Carter fits in in comparison to the other game recorders. Yeah, the Von Miller comment was interesting. It came from a guy who used to coach in the NFL and is now a Big Ten running backs coach. And he had said to me, you know, people are wanting to compare them to Micah Parsons. They're similar size. Micah Parsons is going

to run in the four fours and obviously both Penn State guys. But this guy was like, they're really different. You know, some of the stuff Micah Parsons does, how he wins in the NFL is not how Abdul Carter to this point is. Now what're really different. You know, some of the stuff Michael Parsons does, how he wins in the NFL is not how Abdul Carter to this point is. Now what's really worth keeping in mind is this was really the first year that Abdul Carter had played in this position. He'd been a linebacker before and they shifted.

Our first game of the year for Fox, we were in West Virginia and they have a really good offensive lineman, Wyatt Milam, who is one of the better, better offensive linemen. I don't know if he's more considered a guard because he's, you know, again, arm length, but he's a high level offensive lineman. He did really well against Abdul Carter when he was against him. But when you talk to coaches in the Big Ten, you know, they're not just studying them for when they played them. They're also looking,

you know, crossover tape and everything. They felt like he really improved as the year went on. He will be physical. He is not, that's not what he's going to make his bread and butter on though. He is a, a real elite get off speed rusher guy. And I think the combination of him and Miles Garrett, Miles Garrett's another one, even though he's super strong and he's a lot bigger, has shockingly good bend around the corner. And I think that that will help him. And I think there are, he talked to coaches and I talked to the guys at Ohio State, and they faced maybe six or seven guys who are D linemen, who will be probably first round picks are in that category.

Obviously Abdul Carter, they faced two guys, an inside and an outside guy at Oregon. They faced Pierce from Tennessee, who is a 447 guy, lit it up at the combine. They faced two guys, more inside guys at Michigan, but also first round picks. I mean, there was a lot of guys they saw. In addition to the two guys they have every day in JTT and Jack Sawyer, who will probably be top 60 picks. I mean, there was a, you know, they had an interesting range to see. Abdul Carter's Twitch is different. Again, even, you know, as fast as Pierce is, Pierce is way more one dimensional and people saw Abdul Carter as he's willing to do a lot

more things like that. And I also think it did help. You talk to coaches that D line they had on third down at Penn State and two of those guys are still are coming back Zayn Durand and I, Dennis Sutton. That was a scary group he was part of in terms of just elite pass rushers. You have Shidora going third to the Giants. The Mocs have them all over the place. You already are making a face. So it seems like you don't like that you have him there. I don't know. Full disclosure, I had to turn this in over the weekend. The Giants ended up taking Jamis. The one hesitation I had even going in was you talk to coaches and the Giants system is not very easy to pick up for young quarterbacks. And I think that, especially with some pressure on Brian Dayball, it makes sense that you

would take Jameis and ride with Jameis. I think if you're Shador or Cam Ward, I think you're like, I don't know if I want to go there. Yeah, you have Malik neighbors, but the system is a challenge. I think the tricky part of this, in full disclosure, when I do this exercise, it's really to show NFL draft fans, hey, you're hearing a lot from the draft analysts and they do a really good job, but here's a completely different perspective. It's from the guys who probably know them the best because they studied them and then they game plan for them and they saw what they were, knew what they were trying to do to them.

they studied them and then they game plan for them and they saw what they were, you know, knew what they were trying to do to them. I don't, you know, Shador is really polarized. He takes a lot of bad sacks. I mean a lot. Now he played behind a terrible offensive line that got a little better last year, but it was still pretty bad. Now he did have high level receivers, not just, not just Travis Hunter. Jimmy Horn Jr. was just really explosive. Wester's a really good, a good receiver. They had four guys who were, you know, it wasn't Ohio State's receiving core, but it was not far from it. And it was better than almost everybody else had. I think the interesting part about him is he's really smart.

He's accurate on the run. He will do some of the same stuff that we would see from Caleb. Now, I don't think he's as athletic as Caleb. Caleb's a better athlete, but would extend plays and buy time and do all this stuff. You know, Caleb would get hawked down in the NFL last year. That's definitely happened if Shador is going to try it. You know, so I think one of the more interesting comments I got was from a coach who said, you know,

he is super cocky in terms of that he thinks he's better than everybody else. And to some extent that helps him, but it also could burn him where he's going to have to really adjust because you're going to take a lot of bad sacks and it's going to get him in a lot of trouble. I have a hard time believing. And I know it is you're saying like, Hey, it's Jamus. And it's also the Russell Wilson contract where he feels like he's probably penciled in as a starter. Although, you know, who knows what will happen.

I think the table part of it is fascinating too, cause I don't know that I'd want to bring in a rookie quarterback with a coach that, you know, if it's a bad season, it's probably a guy that gets cycled out. And then I think the coaches will selfishly, which I don't really blame them for doing it, but the self-preservation of, well, let me play the rookie sooner than we should be playing him. Because if it looks good for a few weeks, you know, then it ends up like a Freddie kitchens deal where it's

like, well, maybe I get to stick around. Now, Freddie wasn't the head coach at the time, but there was the idea that he had the relationship with Baker and got more out of Baker. So that's why he becomes a head coach. So I think you'll see coaches at times go, all right, my move here, even if it doesn't even make sense for the player necessarily, but if I can get something out of this young guy going for it. The Chidor part of it, like I'm with you on the sacks if you watched it, he takes a lot of bad ones, I wouldn't dispute any of that stuff. I think that he, it was so

one-dimensional that I was at times more impressed with him finding a way to make plays because I think he does kind of fit the profile of like, he's a baller. Like, let me just get out there, play football, and kind of see what happens. That less regimented style probably isn't everybody's favorite if you're an offensive coordinator trying to game plan on Sundays in the NFL.

But the line of scrimmage throws, it's not just him. It's a lot of these college offenses. Did anybody tell you like, hey, there's a lot of stuff in there that we're just not going to run and there's not enough intermediate stuff. Deep ball stuff's great. Too much stuff at or behind the line of scrimmage and the in-between place where you need to live at times.

Like, we don't even know if we have tape on him being able to throw any of the underneath stuff. Well, it's it's it's a hard translation. I mean, there's two things where I think stand out. One, he is really tough because you see him keep battling. And I do think he's very smart. And you could kind of see that. But some of the other things that you're talking about, and again, his offensive coordinator this past year came from the NFL. Shermer had been a lifetime NFL guy. I think they also had no run game. It's really a weird evaluation for,

on both quarterbacks to be honest, because what you would see a lot, and you talk to coaches who faced a lot of Kam Ward, and they would say, it feels like a lot of backyard football. And a lot of the stuff was was when you had a quarterback, now, Ken Ward had a good offensive arm. Shador did not.

And I think so much of what I definitely give Shador a lot of credit for is they were horrible before he got there. He got there with Travis and he got there with his dad, and they worked together really well. I would give him a lot of credit for, for, for that piece of it. Cause I don't think that's significant. They went from one and 11 getting blown out in almost every game before they got there to being competitive. And then in year two, they finished in the top 25.

I just think there's going to be a lot of growing pains of the transition for some of the things you're talking about. I think he can do it. You talk to coaches who, you know, it's not like he has Justin Herbert or Josh Allen's arm, but, and I don't think he even has Cam Ward's arm, but he has a good enough arm and he can make, he's really accurate on the run. There's a lot of stuff in there that I think will translate well. It's just, I think the growing process of what he came out of to this, I think is more of a projection. Whereas some of the stuff you see with Cam Ward in terms of just the ball comes out fast. And I think some of this stuff he can do where it does fit into that category like middle infielder things that you hear a lot of with quarterbacks in the last decade, which I feel like really

kind of started a lot from Aaron Rodgers and some other guys. I think there's Cam, you can see it at least and say, okay, the college, the NFL game is, and it's been this like this for a little while, but has become more like the college game. And I think that that stuff translates whereas I'm not, it's not to me as apparent with Shador. I do think Shador could be an NFL starter. I just think there's a lot of stuff that you kind of like hold your breath on with him. Yeah, totally agree though on the toughness.

I mean, that guy got beat up for two years and got up every single time. All right, one of my favorite, there's a couple other guys that I want to do, maybe some bigger pictures, bigger picture stuff. Um, Vegas six pick, Jaylen Walker out of Georgia. Uh, I've, I've seen Williams ahead of his teammate here. Um, Williams came back later into the season, but I know Georgia was loaded.

That was, that was at least the front, uh, and, and probably the best unit on a team that had a disappointing season based on their standards. But I love seeing this only because I felt like he was a guy consistently on Saturdays where I was like, okay, well, he has to be the next one from Georgia. Even if it felt like it's, it's been Williams with more momentum, I think in other mocks. Yeah. We look Williams is bigger.

He's the more prototype size. six, five to 60 plus. It'll probably get bigger. Jalen Walker's under six to one of the comparisons I got was Will Anderson. Will Anderson's been a, you know, is a great player at Alabama. Has been a, you know, big time addition for the Texans. He's not quite as long as Will Anderson. Will Anderson is bigger than him.

But when you talk to coaches, especially like the Texas coaches, they saw him twice and they have good offensive linemen. They have two guys, one guy probably, one guy is, I think will definitely be a first round pick. The other one probably maybe shouldn't have come out this year, but has first round ability. And they abused those guys. Like, I mean, and those guys saw other, like the Ohio State guys, they saw some first round players. Jalen Walker is probably the best player they saw all season. I mean, he was an off the ball linebacker who could be really, really good at that. And he can be really, really dangerous as an edge rusher.

The Georgia people I know rave about him. I think he is a, he's one of the safest picks in the draft. And I don't know if he's the best player in the draft, but I think he really is in the discussion. You could make a case that he was the most impressive player, maybe not named Travis Hunter, in college football last year. And I would include, you know, Gentie had an amazing year, but one guy was doing it in the SEC every week, and the other guy was doing it, you know, in the Mountain West.

I just think it's like, it's almost a different kind of football. And in the biggest games, Jaylen Walker went off. I mean, you look what he did against Texas, and they just could not handle him at all. And I think I do think he's gonna be a problem for people and again all the intangibles stuff only makes me like him that much more. The number of times I would see him chase down a guy that he's not supposed to chase down like that would be whether it was like a really good you know faster quarterback or whatever I mean most quarterbacks you should be able to catch but there's just a lot of plays too it's not just destroying the tackles like

that Texas first half was horrifying. We referenced it all season. I thought it was like the best effort from any unit for one half in maybe the entire season of college football and what they did to NFL linemen for Texas. But there's also moments where you think he's out of the play and then he's still chasing it down and catching a skilled guy that you just wouldn't expect. All right. This one probably was a little off menu here, but you went Jaday Baron, the corner over Texas, out of Texas over Will Johnson from Michigan. People really loved, you know,

I feel like he improved a lot last year from where he was, just really instinctive, makes a lot of plays. Both guys, I think, see the game at a higher level than a lot of defensive backs. You know, talking to people who've coached Will Johnson, they think he prepares like a quarterback, which is about as high a compliment as you can get for a cornerback. There are some concerns about his speed. Now, he's a bigger cornerback. He's legit 6'2".

I know he was 194 or 195 at the combine. The coaches who had him say he plays a 205. He got down. I think the questions about his speed, they say he'll probably run somewhere between 445 and 448. He was inconsistent. Now he played it last year. He had turf toe caused him to miss a lot of the season. He's the guy who will probably get a bunch of pick sixes because he sees the game quick He triggers fast and he's looking for it I mean, I feel like he's more of the zone corner who can do a lot of damage and make make a lot of big plays Baron I think there's more versatility to him, you know, he could he could be your nickelback

He could he could do a lot of things that he's not super big. He's smaller. But in terms of I think one guy probably going into the start of the 2024 season was was higher regarded. And that was Will Johnson, I think coming out of last year, in part because of how much better Baron looked over the year. I think his stock boosted up, but I think it's honestly, it's going to be a, what do you, what do you, what flavor of ice cream do you like? I think both guys are going to be really good NFL, NFL players. I think Will Johnson in the right system could be a pro bowl guy, but I do think that Barron has is a little more versatile.

You have Dallas taking Hampton the running back out of North Carolina 12th. How many people do you think you've talked to in college that actually think Hampton will be the better pro than Genting? There's a little of that. I mean, I would say this, there's a guy you and I both know

who I think probably might lean that way too. I don't wanna say any more than that, but like Hampton, one of the coaches I talked to who had been in the ACC for a decade said, he's one of the three best running backs I saw in the last decade. And he put Dalvin Cook and ATN from Clemson, who's now with the Jaguars in there. I mean, he is a punishing big back who is faster than you think. I mean, he's linebacker size. And I think because of it was such a weird year for North Carolina, you know, they give

up 70 in a game to like, you know, somebody they shouldn't have. And Mac Brown, is he in the, is he in or out? It's the year of post Drake May. And I think he got kind of slept on a little bit. Well, the people in the ACC know he is really, really talented. I mean, it's hard to, with running backs, it's hard to project who's going to be the guy who breaks out, who's going to be the guy who kind of a little disappointing in the NFL. I mean, if you told me Caleb Johnson ended up being a beast in the NFL, it wouldn't surprise me.

You know, if you told me Tootin ended up being from Virginia Tech, who's the fastest of all of them, ended up being an impact guy, wouldn't surprise me. You know, if you told me tootin ended up being from Virginia Tech, who's the fastest of all of them ended up being an impact guy wouldn't shock me. Now he's got to take care of the football better. But Hampton, I think, is one of those guys where, you know, usually there's one, he's a one of two. Now you see it certainly with the Lions, you know, you have Gibbs is the is the home run hitter a little more. But you know, you have Gibbs is the, is the home run hitter a little more, but, you know, the other guy is usually that punishing running back who will go between the tackles and do a lot of the heavy lifting. But Hampton's a guy, I think can break runs too. I, you know,

I would not be surprised if he ended up being the better running back between he and Genti. I'm not saying Genti is not, not pretty special because I think he is his contact balance and what he did last year was remarkable but but I don't think there's a huge drop off between he and Hampton because both are really really good all-around backs who are really really good catching the football too. Do you feel like 14 for Tyler Warren tied in out of Penn State to the Colts? I mean it makes sense but do you think that's closer to his ceiling in the draft or the floor of where he could go I? Think it's the floor because I think he's a guy who's still pretty raw in terms of what he is as a tight end

You know one of the coaches I talked to said he were my he's more gromp than he is Brock Bowers You know Brock Bowers not to this is not a knock But is more in the H back size this guy's a big dude who was a quarterback in high school and they found all sorts of ways to get him to football. I think he's, and he was awesome last year. If you talk to a lot of people in the draft space, I don't, I think they thought Colson Loveland was the better prospect going into last year. And I think it's flipped now.

You know, part of it was Loveland was playing banged up last year. Part of it was Loveland had really bad quarterback play and no receivers around them. Now, Penn State didn't have a great group of receivers either, but their offense wasn't as atrocious as Michigan's was last year. But I do think, you know, I like Tyler Warren a lot because I think he's a real big receiver. He's a willing blocker. There's some interesting, this is I think a pretty good tight end group and there's guys even further down, there's a tight end coming out of Iowa who I think could end up another one who is a good player.

There's just a bunch of guys in there that I think will be able to really contribute. This is one guy who I would say, yeah I could see him as a pro bowler within two years and I think he keeps getting better and better because we saw his development. How much better he got this year in Andy Cotell, Nicky the new offensive coordinator last year at Penn State. He found ways to get him the ball and he was a huge problem for defenses every week. Let's talk bigger picture stuff here. Is there someone the NFL guys love in the college football world is like, that's weird. Or maybe you could give us an example of the reverse of that. A player that college football guys loved,

and it's like, how come the NFL doesn't like this guy more? Like, how is this guy projected as a second or third rounder? I just wanna know if there's a player or any examples of the disconnect between these two football worlds. You know, like Jack Sawyer was a great football player at Ohio State. He helped them win a national title., was a great football player at Ohio State.

He helped them win a national title. He was a great program guy. Um, I don't, it w I think he'll probably play in the NFL for a long time. Um, but I think that in terms of maybe the Twitch that teams want to see, I think there are worst football players who are going to get drafted much higher than him, you know, because they will roll the dice on somebody being a lot more explosive than just a guy who plays hard every down, makes a lot of plays. And Jack Sorter is a really good football player, but I think he's one where you will see a handful of guys who didn't make anywhere near the plays, you know, Shamar Stewart, James Pierce. I mean, there are guys like that who I think are tougher evaluations, but I think the traits

end up selling them on somebody going. And honestly, even JTT is probably a better all around athlete, really good basketball player. He's a guy that I think, you know, people, I think they see a little more upside in him. You know, I would be happy if my team got Jack Sawyer in the 50th pick in the draft or something. But I think he's one of those guys that fits in there. I think the, you know, another one who's like that

is TMAC from Arizona. T Mac has unreal ball skills. I'm so glad this was going to be my next thing because now after this college football season, I get it was a disaster for Arizona, but he went from like maybe the best receiver, you know, depending on how you want to classify Hunter to now he's slow and lazy and annoying. Like, I mean, it's just off the charts how much momentum is going against this guy now and you have him what going 18th to Seattle. Yeah, he is to me, he is the best I have. I'm trying to think who has to go back a bit. And the same thing happened where I talked to, you know, defensive coordinators were

like, he has the best ball skills I can remember of a, of a player, you know, that they've faced. I mean, he was an elite volleyball player who's six four. He's about two 20. Now I don't know what he'd run the 40 in maybe four, six, two, maybe four, four, five, five. It's not going to be Restrepo, but it's not going to be super fast. But hit. And the funny thing is- Or Restrepo, I mean, Jesus Christ, just killing him.

I would take Restrepo on my team. I would, look, Restrepo is the all-time leading receiver at Miami, and there's been Hall of Fame receivers, and only one guy had more 60-yard catches than Restrepo. He's not the go-ball guy, right? But anyway, I digress. So Jimmy Doherty is the offensive coordinator at at Washington.

And he was at Arizona and helped get TMAC to Arizona from out of Southern California. And I remember we talked about him and he was like, yeah, I think he's got like a 40 inch vertical. And you'd watch him. You're like, OK, I can see that again. Elite volleyball player growing up. You see the videos all over Instagram of the volleyball players just doing stuff that basketball players don't look them to get that hype. Well, I asked him that guy, I was like, what do you jump? And he said probably 34 inches. It was 32.

And now he goes, I know people think it's higher, but it's all my timing. And some of it is also like one, two step as opposed to, it's not a pure vertical jump. It's like, you know, you're in the NBA world, you know, it's the max vertical versus, you know, what you see in the combine. But when the ball's up in the air, he's getting it. So, you know, one of the coaches I talked to said, because those 50 50 balls with TMAC are 90 10. And that's where the laziness thing, cause I didn't realize the laziness thing was as big a thing until one of the

coaches was like, people say that, but that he never came off the field. And everybody knew, you know, whenever they needed it, the quarterback who was his best friend, Noah Fafida since eighth grade was always going to him. There was nobody else you worried about at Arizona. I mean, they were, they were atrocious last year. I would, I don't know how, you know, if he's, even if he went nine and I'm not saying he will or, you know, the Bears don't need somebody at 10, I don't know how, you know, if he's, even if he went nine and I'm not saying he will, or, you know, the bears don't need somebody at 10, I don't think, um, even if he went in the top 10,

I'd be like, yeah, talent wise, he's, he's got rare ball skills. And, you know, again, I think if you've watched them, you're like, oh yeah, that guy's a dude. I would not doubt that he will be a, you know, a pro bowler, you know, six, eight times over. And remember too, I think the number was a four, four eight at his pro day, but then immediately everybody, I don't know, I don't know what to do with it. I'm with you. I feel like I watched them enough. I mean, granted, I went into the season with Arizona being like really excited because of how much fun they were two years ago. And with the Fita, they were just a really fun team and then it falls apart. But when you did watch, you're like, yeah, but there's nothing it's first

down, doesn't work second down, doesn't work. And then Fita scrambles around trying to figure out if Macmillan's going to win the ball. And I liked it, the 50 50 ball. Cause that was always my thing with Deandre Hopkins is there's no such thing with a 50 50 ball with Deandre Hopkins, is there's no such thing with a 50-50 ball with Deandre Hopkins, like it's his ball. And that reminded me, like, look,

I don't think he's gonna be Deandre Hopkins, because I think Hopkins at his best was probably a top five receiver in the NFL. But it just feels like momentum-wise, McMillan is going in the wrong direction for a dude I absolutely love. But look, it doesn't mean that everybody that we love on Saturdays ends up being an all-time NFL guy. So do you have anything? I didn't prep you for this. Do you have anything

on the college guys that you talked to of which front offices are really just dialed in? Because granted, there's a lot of guys that work for these teams. And just, hey, these guys do it the right way. These guys are putting in the amount of work that you need. They're asking the right questions. Like this group, these NFL teams, they get it. It's, I mean, it's who you'd expect. It's the Eagles, you know, in terms of like, who's getting great players, it's the Eagles, you know?

I mean, the Eagles getting Cooper DeGene last year was like, that's perfect fit, you know? Like you're talking about a guy when you'd watch them and you'd be on the field and you watch them on special teams and he's a beast. And you know, he would get, he would get compared to Riley Moss, who was a good player, but you'd see why, you know, Iowa white cornerback from, you know, but physically they're very different. And he's just, you get guys like this. They took a cluster of guys from Georgia.

Obviously, they were fortunate that Jalen Carter fell to them. He didn't even fall that far. I think it's the biggest thing with what Harry Roseman and the Eagles have done is they keep the main thing the main thing. I feel like they don't overthink things. And I think sometimes a lot of franchises probably outsmart themselves by trying to be too counterintuitive. I don't even know if that's the right application of that term here. But I just think that it's the teams who do the right thing. For a long time, it felt like the commanders were picking wrong because it was just like the franchise was

jinxed. And then you get good player, good player, you know, you grab Debo, you're making smart decisions. It's to me, it's like kind of what the Ravens have always done. It's like, you kind of get best player available who fits. And then it's like, you work from there as opposed to you shoehorn some guy who you think needs, even though he's probably 12, you know, 12 slots below, It's like you work from there as opposed to you shoehorn some guy who think needs, even though he's probably 12, you know, 12 slots below your best player is at that point. And I think ultimately that's what's a difference.

I'm not saying fit doesn't matter because it certainly does, especially with quarterbacks and you know, how you surround them. But I just look at the teams that are the best, you know, again, the Ravens have been really good for a long time because I don't think they overthink it. They take really good players who I feel like, you see it on Lamar. Look, I mean, I, you know, work with Mark Ingram now, you totally get like the football guy who's like just ultra competitive. And those guys, I feel like, you know, and I've had this when I was at the combine, just remember talking to, you know, one of the, one of the coaches

I know really well, we went out for beers and he was talking about the meetings and who you feel in the room. Those guys are usually not the ones who end up disappointing you in the NFL. It's the ones who are like over coached and trying, you know, it's just, and I feel like that's, those are the organizations that can't get out of their own way just because they forget what the main thing is and they just don't even know it. And that's why, you know, we see these constant teams that are typically really good because they just have a great feel for this is going to work. This, this part will translate. We're not sure if he's going to check every box, but we want this guy in

our locker room. Is there a guy that is going in the second round? Like he's going to check every box, but we want this guy in our locker room. Is there a guy that is going in the second round? Like he's got to go in the second round that either you can't believe or the college coaches that you talk to can't believe. You know, there's been some times where I've seen a Mecca Bucca not that high and I'm, I'm like, I don't get it. He's not a small receiver. He's bigger than some of the guys who come out of Ohio State.

You know, I remember when he was a freshman, we had Brock Heward was my analyst and we were, our TV crew was in there and he asked Ryan Day, who was the guy in the program? You'd say, I could totally see him as a football coach because I just think he's super smart. And Ryan thought about for a while, he goes, we have a freshman.

He talked about a Mecca and the Mecca was that guy. And as a, as a true freshman, yeah. And again, Ohio state has a lot of football savvy guys in there. You know, like, like, look, another Ohio state guy, I think will be a really good NFL player. Cody Simon was a linebacker who went from being good to borderline great last year. You can't shut James Laurinaitis up about him when like he's the position coach.

He obviously had a really good NFL career himself. Like those guys, I think, will end up being 10 year pros and be really, really good. I don't know where Simon's projected to, you know, how far projected to go. I mean, when you see him in warmups, he looks like he spent a shit ton of time in the weight room. He's like, you know, almost like one of those guys that, oh, that guy would probably be a good bobsledder because he's like super explosive and you wonder,

you know, be good on special teams. And then last year, he really blew up and made plays all over the field. I could see him being like, I know that's not always a position where people are drafting it. I, like, Edgeron Cooper was an elite athlete at Texas AM and I think he's going to be a, you know, he's already been really good. But, you know, 10 years ago, I think Edgeron Cooper probably is a top 10 pick because of his traits

and everything else. And that position sometimes slides down. But I think those two Ohio state guys, again, I'd be surprised if a Buca doesn't go in the first round, but if he doesn't, um, we see all the track record of the Ohio state receivers thriving in the NFL. He's super smart. He's very physical. Um, and also, you know, another one I would throw on Jalen Noel, um, from Iowa State is a beast. You know, people like I, one of the coaches compared him to Heinz Ward and super tough. There's two really good receivers from Iowa state, six, four, one,

a five 11 one, the slot. People like a little more who played them just cause they think he's just incredibly tough. And I think that guy will end up making a team really happy too. I mean, those are the ones that come to mind. Moore who played him just cause they think he's just incredibly tough. And I think that guy will end up making a team really happy too. I mean, those are the ones that come to mind. Certainly, you know, like I said, the two Ohio state guys, I haven't seen Simon, you know, anyone talking about him, you know, in the top 40. So I, you know,

I feel, feel good saying he's going to be, he will overproduce wherever he goes. So wait, so you're saying people like Higgins more? No, I think there's because Higgins is, you know, he ran really well at the, uh, you know, in Indy and Higgins is bigger. You know, he's obviously a big receiver. He's got really good size and he has a really good football player. The, the slot is the guy that coaches I talked to were like like they thought he was the one who impressed them even more

Again, not to knock Higgins Higgins who probably will turn out to be you know, you know I don't think it's exactly the Al Mazar because you have another similar size receiver same program, but he's good he's fast but Noel is like one where He was one people really, really talked up. I mean, there was a handful of guys that like, they weren't going to be first round guys for, for, for, for what I was working on, but the coaches would talk about them way, way more than,

um, then I think I was hearing in draft chatter, like Iowa has a defense alignment, D'Aia Black, who's a giant of a man, he's 6'5", 3'35", and they really talked him up. Like he will be a starter in the NFL, at least on first and second downs. I don't know if he goes in the third round where he goes, but there are a bunch of guys like that

who coaches just think, all right, you know I know he's not a first-round guy because people are looking for some you know for something a little different there But they're gonna be really good football players You have a title game matchup for us? Not yet, I mean I Yeah, look I think if Sark doesn't win a national title in the next two years, I'd be surprised Yeah, look, I think if Sark doesn't win a national title in the next two years, I'd be surprised. I like what they have coming back. I think Arch is going to live up to it. They have really good players on defense. If you ask me, right? Texas, I would say yes.

I don't know where I would go on the other side of it. You know, like I think that, you know, Penn State's hard for me to go all the way in after, you I, I think that, um, you know, Penn State's hard for me to go all the way in after, you know, I think Aller's got talent, but you keep waiting for like the, the moment where you're like, okay, that was a, that was a clutch play or whatever. And I just, I don't know. Right now I would say Texas, if you, if I had to, maybe, maybe Aller had enough in the Oregon game to build on because he had I mean that fourth and 10.

Like he finally, you know. Yeah, look, it's April. I shouldn't have done that to you, but I'm always interested. I mean, yeah, I don't know. Like, I mean, I'm not sold on what George's quarterback is. I like LSU's quarterback. I think Nussmeyer is really good. they've upgraded the roster around him. But I just, right now, I don't have like a great feel for who the other team is. I worry that Ohio State lost a little

too much. I think there'll still be a playoff team. But the one team I feel really confident in is Texas. Based on what I've heard you know, I talked to a bunch of Texas guys over the last couple weeks and it seems like things are going in a really good direction but I Don't know. I don't know where where we turn from this maybe Clemson Maybe Clemson I might go down to Clemson For the for the opener. Hey club Nick look good against Texas in that game He stepped up and so in the playoff game,

I don't know, people are obviously really down on Dabo, but I think they've got enough talent. I wouldn't be surprised if they were a team that made it into the Final Four, at least. Yeah, why not? I think last year for Clemson was a nice little reminder that this is sort of the standard. It's what it should be. Granted not to the level of what it was when they were

going back and forth against Bama all those years, but. Because they missed on receivers. Before they had you started with Hopkins, you go down that list of dudes they had, you know, Renfro, they had a lot of really good receivers, T. Higgins, then they hit on some national guys who didn't turn out to be so good. And because he doesn't do anything with the portal, he couldn't replenish it the way, you know, it's not like Nick Saban, when your receiver room gets thin, all of a sudden you grab like Jameson Williams

from your Ohio state and he turns out to be elite. You know, like, I think that's the issue was Clemson was not where they missed in recruiting. They did, you know, Dav I think that's the issue was Clemson was not where they missed in recruiting. They did, you know, Davao was not willing to pivot. Yeah. But you know, getting Wesco in there, like you're right. Like there was a bit of a guy. It's always, we've talked about this a lot over the years, but there's certain schools of like, how do they not have like one guy on the outside who just scares the shit out of you? Like how do how do they not, you know, okay, you have a bad year or whatever,

but there's certain programs I just never expect them to have multiple years without somebody. So I think it's pretty clear after West Coast freshman year that they have a guy. All right, man. I mean, look at, look at, just one thing on that. Look at what Peko at Ohio State did. Their original receiver room is ridiculous.

They have the best player in college football who's going to be there for two more years. But like, you know, Chip Kelly is the offense coordinator there. He had a receiver, Michael Sturtivant, who transferred from Cal to UCLA, legit track guy, 6'2", 6'3", looks like an NFL you know, guy. He probably would have been like the fifth or sixth receiver at Ohio State. That's how deep they were, you know, and I just think now we'll go to Florida and probably be like the number two or three guy or three guy. But I just think that if you're not in that game where you're not constantly stocking, you know, and making that room as competitive as can be, especially that room, I think you're doing yourself a disservice. And, you know,

hopefully for Clemson's sake, they've remedied that. You can check out the entire mock draft on the athletic and we'll catch up with Bruce again man. Getting ready for college football, which is you know little later on the to do list. So thanks. Always pleasure on it. Thanks for having me. The Ryan Russo podcast is brought to you by Fandool. It's the final stretch of the NBA season and the playoff picture

is changing by the minute. Every three pointer or fourth quarter comeback means that much more. And with live betting on Fanduil, you can make the playoff picture a little prettier. So whether you're looking to ride with a hot shooter or think a team is due for a run, you can get in on the action until the final buzzer with America's number one sportsbook.

We're going to try to do something a little different. Embrace the tank. So three legged here. We've got Alexander Saar. Saar. 15 points or more. This is what we're looking at. He's minus 146. Saar has not played against Orlando, I believe.

So this time it's personal. Quentin Grimes is minus 900. So we threw him in there because Grimes is, I mean, Philly, when they tank, they, but like, they're like, we shouldn't have traded for this guy. Um, and then Keon Johnson, who's getting some shots up. My man has put up 20. 19 in his most recent game. I'm talking field goal attempts to score 1315 and 24 had 24 in

that win against Dallas. So yeah, Keon getting the most out of his minutes, and now he's playing like 30 minutes a game for the most far for the last five around 30 minutes. So that's what we're doing. Fifteen points or more for Sar Grimes Johnson. That would pay out at plus three fifty eight. We're excited about this.

However you want to play now is the perfect time to join new Fanduil customers. Get started with two hundred dollars in bonus bets. If your first five5 bet wins, just visit FanDuel.com slash Ryan RYE and to join today. Make every moment more with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. First online real money wager. Only $5 deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets, which expire seven days after receipt restrictions apply C terms at sportsbook.fandl.com.

Gambling problem call, 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Let's go back to Tales from the Couch on a Thursday. Couple games, couple thoughts from last night. So I know this seems to happen a lot, but Oklahoma City was on television last night. I was kind of curious and then I was like, I guess I'm not because Kate is out. Big Stu is out. Ron Holland's out. Sasser's out. So Detroit outmanned a bit here in the first quarter. Their defense was a mess. SGA basically just got any defender off of them, got wherever he wanted.

Thunder had 26 points in the first quarter, just 26 points in the pain, 41 on the quarter. And then Chet just had a bunch of really great Chet moments because they started him in this one. They were kind of changing around the double big rotation and when they wanted to do it, he had one play where he just straight up raced, turned down the court, beat him for the lob. Then he had another play where he grabbed the rebound, dribbled the coast to coast, got the end one finish. It was really interesting too, because he went the entire right sideline with Jaylen on him and he kind of kept his left arm in. I don't know what it was doing as opposed to the off arm stuff that's happening in the NBA. There are certain guys

that were criminal with it, but now it feels like everybody just kind of gets away with it all the time. Not doing a rant on it, just noticing it a ton. And then the offensive player after he hands out this forearm shiver to the defensive player and then doesn't get a call consistently, just accountability, guys. If you're going to murder somebody's ribs and then don't get a call on some slight contact at the top, think, hey, maybe I could have gotten an offensive foul. So let's just stay, be happy with neutral. But that's not the way it goes when you're out there competing. And then there's another play where he went against Duren and basically Jaylen cut off his drive because he's bigger and he's stronger. And then check gets, it looks like he's about to get stuck. And then Wallace makes a great back cut because Detroit wasn't paying attention

to anything that was happening off the ball. It's like, Hey Detroit, guess what? When you play under guys are going to keep moving on offense. They're going to keep cutting. All the guys can pass. And when you're on offense, if you just Dick around at the elbow holding the basketball, you're probably going to end up turning it over. So just some really good stuff from chat.

One play in particular that I want to get to turning it over. So just some really good stuff from Chad. One play in particular that I want to get to, it wasn't super complicated, but speaks to the multiple options you have with this team on offense. They really are completely comfortable with Hartenstein having the basketball. Here he is in this play. He's beyond the three point line on the right side. All right. So now he's bringing the only big that Detroit has. And even when Durham was in there, they were struggling to do anything in the

paint. And so now you're pulling him like 27 feet away from the basket and on the left block, I shouldn't say left block left elbow, Chet's setting kind of a back screen for a perimeter player to cut around it. But then there's a second movement where then Chet can read the paint. And he's also facing Isaiah. Isaiah is just standing like it almost looks at times like, why would you want the center just waiting and holding the ball and, you know, could

somebody come up and harass him? And it's like, no, he's fine because he's such a good pastor. And he's going to see over the top of basically any defender that's out on him. And so the first part of it gets cut off and Detroit loses all sense of defensive concept and then Chet just facing Hartnestead cuts right into the paint, gets the pass, finishes the dunk, no one even at the rim. Just beautiful, really simple stuff that starts with a back cut on the opposite side of the floor.

So they ran the same play a few possessions later and Tobias Harris, vet awareness, knew what was coming, right? They started a little bit different, so maybe it looks a little different to the defense. You'll see teams do that where it's like, okay, there's something here we like. Let's see if it's going to work again, but let's get into it a little bit different so that maybe it's not as predictable. So Arnstein's all the way past the three-point line, maybe a little bit closer on this time around. Chet sets the screen. Chet's looking and Harris knew it was coming. So Chet basically gets cut off by Harris because Harris is aware of it. So now all of this stuff is different. There's even a version of this where the original first perimeter cutter is setting then a screen off of it.

He shut off and then somebody's curling up. It's almost like a pin down, but it's way out. And on the second attempt where it looks like, hey, Detroit Harris knew what was happening. Smart guy, hey, we just got beat on this like bad. I'm going to play it this way. Chet can't move. He's stuck. And then Jaylen Williams just comes up from the corner, grabs the ball, creates on his own, hits a step back jumper. It's just ridiculous. And look, the crazy thing about this game, as bad as it looked in the beginning and as limited as Detroit's options were for the rotation with the injuries and suspensions in this game, they got back into it because Tim Hardaway had a huge first half, hit a bunch of threes. At one point it was like 63-59 and I'm going, how is this happening? And then the third quarter they go off. Like

SGA sat like seven game minutes in the first half. They didn't bring them back until 625 on the fourth. So I don't think the Thunder at any point last night were all that concerned with what was going on. And as you see with this closing group, where it'll be Dort, it'll be Williams, it'll be SGA. And I think they like the double big part of it, but if they don't, they'll probably play Wallace who may give a second option to hunt because, you know, SGA is going to get hunted just because it's a better thing to hunt than some of the other guys. I mean, Jaylen Williams' defense consistently, especially the stuff even at the rim for him, always seems to be really impressive. I believe his fourth came back after the injury, but

when Dort's your fifth option offensively, you know, they didn't have Caruso last night, so a lot to like here. So just to put into perspective where the Thunder are at with this winning streak, They now have a 13.4 point differential on the season that is number one all time by a full point over the Lakers from 71-72. It's two points better than the Celtics last season who at the time were fifth all time, now sixth with this season from the Thunder. Thunder sitting there at 64 and 12. I guess they could win their last six. I don't know that they're going to try enough to do that to get to 70. Remember 70

wins is no longer cool because Golden State blew a 3-1 lead. OKC is 28 and 8 against teams that are 500 or better. So that's a 78% winning percentage against those teams. Boston last year was 34 and 15, so more games, but a 69% winning percentage. They are 29 and one against the East. Granted, feels like half the East is tanking, even some of the teams that are in the playing. There was a thought that I had last night, that Thunder win the championship last night

because Big Stu was not available to murder Chet Holmgren. Discuss an aside here as we go back to a. A couple days ago. I think one of the most surprising parts of the season was when Steph late in the game where he went crazy against Memphis and it was just one of those if you love Steph, you're like, hey, I'm going to watch this full game because I was on the phone with somebody who was on the background

and I was seeing what was happening. I'm like, I got to get off this full game because I was on the phone with somebody. It was on the background and I was seeing what was happening. I'm like, I got to get off the phone because now I want to go back and watch the full step experience against Memphis because it actually turned out to be a pretty good game. But towards the end, there was a play where it was Santi Aldama and Desmond Bain on Steph to the sideline, like over right by like where the coach would be standing and they were roughing Steph up a bit just to try to like you know they were down they were gonna lose the game but it was like hey close out and fine be super aggressive and Steph was like I you know whistle blows Steph

goes to shoot a shot Desmond Bain slaps it down and Steph kind of starts going at it with Bain a little bit and then Aldama's in there and then Draymond comes over and I'm like oh my god Draymond Green's about to choke out Santi Aldama. I think Aldama checks a lot of Draymond boxes but he didn't choke him out. Santi's like dude I'm good, I'm good, I'm fine. I know on Sunday on the Sunday pod with, we had Chris Vernon on with us, passionate Memphis resident and a guy who I really think is a good guy and really talented. And I like Verno. So I knew it was gonna be kind of a tough pod

because I'd had these Memphis thoughts for a little while and he makes a great point like, hey, two seed two or three years ago, two seed two years ago, bad year last year, it's only one bad year. And before all of the injuries, they were two seed again. It's like, yeah, that's actually really good. But I think all of us that watch regularly, it's like, am I ever really thinking of them as that team?

Would I not wanna play them in the playoffs with how the West is stacked up right now? Or would I be going, I really wanna play Memphis. I think more teams would rather play Memphis. You know, if you, I don't know if there's going to be some weird, weird seeding stuff that would happen the last couple of days where teams would be like, hey, if we lose tonight,

then we know that we're going to get Memphis in the first round as they try to figure it all out. But I knew that it was going to be me being harsh on jaw. And I didn't really look forward to it. You know, definitely, I think where I'm at with the job, like you don't want to figure it all out. But I knew that it was gonna be me being harsh on Ja. And I didn't really look forward to it. Definitely, I think where I'm at with the job, you don't wanna make it seem, I mean, that's always kind of the number one rule when you're on the air is that you don't really

make it personal, but then sometimes I just can't. Like most of the times when I share something with you, it's after multiple examples to kind of reinforce my feelings about it. And what I had said on Sunday was really more probably about Ja than this Memphis group in general. It's like, man, they get real high on themselves in moments that don't make a ton of sense. And I referenced the whooped that trick game where they were down 3-1 in the series to Golden State. They destroy Golden State, places going nuts.

I'm sure it was a lot of fun in the building, probably a great memory. Jaws didn't play. And then game six, they get destroyed. And you're like, should you be a team? Who am I to sit here and say, hey, don't enjoy that that much because that was a super enjoyable night. That was a very chippy series. And it's just, these teams definitely don't seem

to like each other very much, which is good. That's fun for all of us, right? But yeah, I guess there's certain players and certain teams at a time where I'll go like, I don't know if that's really the guy despite the early resume for jog, you know, being incredible MVP voting. And I don't mean the sneaker deal is like, that's a defining thing. But it's kind of like a defining thing. Like when you get that deal with Nike, and it's like, all right,

you get a chance to be like a dude, like a real guy in this league. And I know the injuries have played a big part of it, but all of those concerns that I'd had about job that I shared on the pot on Sunday were reinforced in that game. He's been great. The last two games, which is automatic that I would be critical. And then he would just light it up for two nights. Um, 31, a game, 32, a game, or yeah, 31, a game. The last two games shot it really well against Golden State. Not a pun. Um, but in that game, or yeah, 31 a game in the last two games, shot it really well against Golden State, not a pun.

But in that game, he had what was the game losing non-box out against Pajemski, where he just loses them, and that was kind of the game, and then comes down, turnover, and then he gets in with the Golden State bench, which is now being investigated, where he looked like he was pretending to shoot an AR-15 at him. Sure, like, Jazi going to be, because of everything he's gone through, like people are not going to give him as much leeway with some of this shit.

That's just kind of the way life works. And then he tweets out like, oh, Jaws this, Jaws that. And that's the part where I'm like, yeah, there's kind of like no accountability. Everything that he went through, I wasn't outraged. I wasn't super mad about it. Really, I thought the punishment was excessive, but what scared me more was the way he had talked about it afterwards. And then in that game, in these big, big moments, despite the scoring, it's like,

you know, you're not doing the little shit that you need to do to win. And now you've added this other layer of just stupidness that I don't quite understand. Houston. So Houston is 13 and two in their last 15. I watched the Lakers game on Monday, and I wanted to watch specifically because this this Rockets thing in its entirety is really strange as I try to figure out, like, what am I going to fall for in the West when I try to pick these series. Houston I tracked it from like five minutes on in the fourth quarter I was like I want to see how many shots I like and how many shots I don't like so in those possessions

from maybe it was like 540 left I forget when it was but they're going back and forth to the Lakers and from that point I started 540 left. I forget when it was, but they're going back and forth to the Lakers. And from that point, I started keeping track of it. I counted five bad slash tough shots, three turnovers, one good field goal attempt that I liked. And I'd say I should add a second good field goal attempt because it led to free throws. So let's call it two.

So out of those 10 that I looked at to close out the game when it made, when it mattered, right. Um, there was two good looks. And so we've talked about their clutch offensive numbers and you're like, they're just not very good. Except for the fact that the weirdest thing about the Rockets is then you guessed it, they have the most clutch wins in the NBA. They've also played the most clutch games, 44 this season tied for most in the NBA with Minnesota. And I had mentioned on Sunday's pod that with EMA, you never quite know what you're going to get with that closing group. Like we generally know what Houston Rockets want to do because they're

sitting there at the two seat and it looks like they are going to be the two seat because of this great stretch they've been on and part of it too, is that it's been a much lighter stretch of the schedule, but they're beating everybody. So I don't really want to make this about focusing on the rare loss in this group, but I'd say email, do anything. You never know what he's going to do. Any bench, Janelin Green basically for the last five plus minutes of this stretch brought him back in 11 seconds to go down four.

So it was just to try to see if they get any kind of offensive possession. Then you dig through all the stuff that Houston has on the net rating group for the clutch minutes for the season which is kind of a big sample when it's 44 games but Amen Thompson has the worst net like by a wide margin of any of the regulars. His defensive numbers ironically, his defensive efficiency is 20 points worse than Shingun, who is off the charts in his net rating for the clutch stuff. So there's just some times where I look at something

and be like, hey, I do not like the offense. They seem to win enough. It's not that big of a deal. The players that we do seem to like are the guys that have some of the bad numbers. And Shingun, who you wonder defensively, how it would hold up like closing in a five minute stretch in the playoffs.

Well, the numbers tell you it's actually been awesome, even though I think all of us would kind of like, oh, I don't know. That seems generally misleading. I don't know what to do with any of that stuff. Last night, as I was switching around. I noticed that Atlanta got back in the game Dallas. Let's admit Atlanta Dallas probably off my radar at this point. But I was like, man, Atlanta got back in it.

AD is going off. What is Dallas is closing group going to look like here? Continuity give you enough offense with a healthy AD to be kind of a scary playing team and look they're going to be in the playing it looks like it right. Atlanta's going to be in the playing here we go Hawks but yeah guilty pleasure. The game was already over so I knew what the score was because I knew it was close. I was like, Do you? Do you want to watch the shots Trey Young took? Like, I bet you there's a good one in there. I was like, Don't do that. And then the inner dialogue was like, You know, you want to watch it. You know, you want to

see one of those shots. You can't help it. And I can't help it. I went back and watch it. And I'll leave it for the audience of you when I go back, which almost none of you should do because you have lives. I was not disappointed. AD, the game winning shot, granted not a, they're calling it a walk off all the time now and there's no time left. I know it's been mentioned before. I don't know that I love it. But then AD, an incredible contest on Trey Young with three seconds left down to trying to get a three off and really had no chance. I think his foot was actually going to be over the line anyway, but the shot that I'm really talking about was a shot a little bit earlier in the game. Trey was as that team got back in it, it was a lot of Congo.

You know, there was there was a lot of stuff where he was actually deferring. So it wasn't like he was even going nuts there necessarily towards the end. But when you start looking at that playing stuff, you go would Dallas have enough because now they get all their centers back, they like got them all back, right? All at once, but no Kyrie. Is there anything in there? They've no Luca tooth. I don't know if you guys knew that. So yeah, I watched I went back and watched because I just couldn't help myself. It was a bit like the hardened Pistons

game, where I have to go into a different feed to watch Clippers games here in Los Angeles. And Hardin had taken 20 free throws against Detroit. And I was like, do you want to watch that? Like, you don't. It's like, but I kind of do. I kind of do. Like, don't watch it. You're just going to get mad, right?

It's like yeah, but sometimes I like it mad. And so I watched it and mad I did get. Hunter Tyson had 20 shots in an NBA game last night. In case you were wondering, so game of the year Minnesota, the double overtime win at Denver. Here's the tease. Can you call yourself a good parent if you don't make your

kid watch it? We're gonna have a lot more on that game later on the pod. We have John Krasinski who covers the Timberwolves for the Athletic joining us. I know, look, I don't tape on Wednesdays. I didn't get to bask in the afterglow, perhaps the best game of the entire season. Minnesota winning at Denver in double overtime. You were in the building, where would you put that, Jon, on the great games you've ever seen? Yeah, I mean, regular season-wise especially, right up there, man.

You know, and I've covered this team 21 years now, and you just think about all the twists and turns. I thought that thing was lost and won seven different times. Jokic is the most insane player I've ever seen with one of the most insane performances I've ever seen not coming off the floor for the last 40 minutes of the game, if you include the halftime, um, and then you have ant going crazy. Um, Nikhil Alexander Walker doing his thing and Russell Westbrook doing his thing in the worst of ways it was the emotional

twists and turns were insane. The whole way was amazing. Uh, look, there's, there's certainly some lineup maintenance that we have to offer in here as Minnesota goes 4-0 against Denver during the regular season. But in this game, there's no Murray. Michael Porter Jr. was out for personal reasons, but then on the suspension side, after the fight with Detroit, no Nasried, no DiVincenzo. So that's part of it. But when it was 14-2 to star. It felt like even without their pieces,

Denver was like we need this game matters because I thought the game were Minnesota beat him by 20. Like I was looking forward to that game weeks ago. Maybe it was over a month ago now where it was like, OK, I can't wait to watch this and Minnesota puts it on him pretty good.

And he's like, hey, despite the disappointment from where Minnesota was what 56 wins last year, this sort of first half malaise just based on the expectations for who they could be like going into this year, like could this team win a title? They weren't playing to that standard. And then when they beat Denver like that, I'm like, this is a very short list of teams that could go in there. We could talk schedule, we could get into, you know, the randomness of certain nights,

but like that game felt like it mattered. And so then I felt like Denver was responding based on what that game was. So 14 two is like OK, you know they they poked him enough. They've woken up and then to lose it again. Is there something that you feel that you've seen or coaches have shared with you for why this matchup has gone Minnesota's

way, including the elimination of the playoffs last year? Yeah, I I would say this and that this is what I think made it different for the last game versus the other three and the five total, including the playoffs that came before it. There are times watching this Timberwolves team where you just know there are certain matchups that they get up for. I think they've been really maddening, especially this year, because they will look really good against teams and then they will play Washington, Utah, one of these lower teams and just really

look terrible. But Anthony Edwards and Jaden McDaniels love to play against Jamal Murray and Michael Porter, Jr. For whatever reason, when they see those guys in front of them, it's we're coming after you. And it's Devin Booker is another one of their favorite guys to torment. And and they have their way with Phoenix all of the time. But when you have the two 23, 24 year olds that are really engaged and set the tone defensively, including offensively as well. The wolves are just different.

And there are times when Jayden McDaniels looks a little bored out there with some matchups. There are times when Anthony Edwards isn't making the right decisions, isn't locked all the way in. But against Denver, they want to get in there and take them apart piece by piece. And a lot of the times they do.

And that's what made the last game kind of more impressive to me, even though Maureen and Porter were out. Those are usually the guys that really kind of stoke the fire. And for the Wolves to overcome that and play the way they did and win that game, even without that internal motivation that they usually have, that said something to me because I see a different look in Anthony Edwards eyes when he has Jamal Murray in front of him and I see a different look in Jayden McDaniel's eyes when he is saying I'm going to take Michael Porter Jr. out of this game and out of this league and that's what happens and then Jokic can get as many points as he wants and if the other guys are not hurting them the wolves are

usually in pretty good shape that way. Yocic did get the points a couple of nights ago. 61, 10 and 10, he knew. By the way, when he gets Rudy, because remember last year with Kat, it was Kat on Yocic and then they would let Rudy sort of freelance off of Gordon, even though depending on the substitution patterns,

like Gobera would ended up with Yocic at times. Now with this, and especially with Donas, Jokic's eyes light up. There's something about him with Gobert where he's more aggressive. And they needed him, obviously, with Murray and the scoring from those two guys and Porter Jr. not being out there. But what I did like about this, and it's easier after you win double overtime on the road when it looks like you're gonna lose the game. But the reverence that so many of the guys in the Timberwolves had for Jokic, you're in the locker room. Share with us a couple of the stories because I couldn't stop watching the videos because it just felt so genuine from all your guys. Yeah, I wrote about it at the athletic because I swear to you, Ryan, I've been in locker rooms for 20 plus years and I have never seen such reverence, such respect doled out from the

opposing team to an opposing player as we saw after 61, 10 and 10 against them on the other night. won 10 and 10 against them on the other night. Julius Randall sat in his locker room, in front of his locker and I went up to him and I just said, how does your body feel after going to war with that big dude for 50 minutes? And he said, I feel terrible. My body feels awful. It is a 15 round fight the whole way. And I don't know

what to do with him. He said he does these turnaround fadeaways off one leg and his touch to get the ball onto the rim at any angle, as soft as possible is impossible. He just said it like and his eyes were wide. and this is a, you know, a multi-time all star former face of the franchise in New York. This isn't some scrub who is like in awe of a star. This is a well established 11 year vet who is saying this. And then we went over to Anthony Edwards and I am telling you Ryan, Anthony Edwards never gives flowers to anyone besides Kevin Durant. Like he is just this super prideful guy.

He was quoted in the Netflix documentary saying, I don't look up to anyone in the league ever. And that's his mentality. He was once at a Nike event when he was in high school and there was a bunch of stars around and he sat in the corner and someone went up to him and said, aunt, why don't you go talk to some of these players and kind of soak up a little bit of this? And aunt's like, man, I don't got time for this.

I mean, he told Barack Obama to stand down. And like, I mean, this guy does not get flattered by anything, doesn't get in awe. And we talked to him, and the first things out of his mouth were, Nikola Jokic, bruh, oh my God. And like he went on for a minute just talking about how good Jokic is, how impossible it is to stop him and just the sheer insanity of his skill level

and what it's like to try and figure him out. And so I just, it really struck me in that locker room that you just never hear players, especially these guys, talk with that kind of respect and reverence for another person and they could not stop gushing about Nikola Jokic. I love this game from Ant as well, slow start and then the shot making, the sense of urgency, that drive

that he had on the left side where it looked like he took off before any defender thought that he would take off. This is why those of us that love him, love him, okay? Because it's aesthetically pleasing on top of everything else. I think the good part for Ant is that there's at least a deep playoff run in there too early on the resume Because we know how it works if you start getting bounced first second round all the time Even though there's some players that I would hold that against other players. I'd be like I think it's it's based more on the situation But this is a team that started 32 and 29

They're 12 and 3 in their last 15 they'd be 14 and 1 in their last 15. They'd be 14 and one in their last 15. If OB Toppin wasn't in the league, perhaps. Just watching those games. I'm like, you know, you could say, Hey, how come Minnesota is not beating the pay? These games are really important. Well, the Pacers are playing just really good basketball for, for a while. And, uh, in top and went crazy and that stuff

too. So I guess there's like a bigger part of this where, you know, it's post-cat where I understood the cat trade and then it just looks bad, right? And he's lightened it up for New York, but it's like, yeah, but he still kind of has the same limitations. So the limitations they saw, there's the randall component where it's been better now,

but I'm always going to be worried about it. It's nice to see DiVincenzo finally hitting these shots. So where is this team? Cause they're not gonna obviously catch the record of last year and we're not gonna maybe have the same anticipation based on the regular season, but how do you see it, man? You're around them all the time and trying to figure out

what is possible for them in the Western Conference. Yeah, I remember Ryan, right after the trade, kind of I even hit you up kind of on the side and we're just kind of talking through things a little bit. And the immediate messaging, both publicly and privately from the Timberwolves after the cat trade was, this is a long-term play to give us the flexibility

that we need to build around Anthony Edwards to get out of that second apron, eventually to open up some more team building mechanisms that the CBA prevents us from having when we're in that apron. And with Carl Anthony Towns' contract, that was going to be almost really difficult to do and still put a good team around Ant. And so there was the larger picture of long-term planning, making sure everything is sustainable going forward for the next four or five years. But also there was a belief internally

that with this trade, Gideon Randall and DiVincenzo, four towns, they thought that they might be a little more versatile going into the playoffs matchup wise. Maybe they're a little tougher and maybe they actually do have a chance to, in the immediate future, still be as successful as the team that went to the Western Conference Finals.

And I think early on, it certainly wasn't there. And one of the biggest reasons is when you talk to people about the process of learning to play with Rudy Gobert, certainly wasn't there. And one of the biggest reasons is when you talk to people about the process of learning to play with Rudy Gobert, that is a different kind of animal, a different kind of teammate to learn, to figure out, to understand than your average big man in the paint. He just does things differently.

He operates differently offensively. He has more idiosyncrasies. You have to learn to figure out. My colleagues told me it took him a full year in Utah before he really understood the best ways to work with him, where he wants the ball, all of these different things. I do think in the early first couple of months,

even Chenzo and Randall were struggling to figure out how to play with Rudy. I think Rudy, who at Carlinthi Towns was as open to playing with Rudy as anybody on last year's team and was really helpful for Gobert and getting kind of acclimated with him gone. I think Rudy had to adjust to these new guys and they did not look good.

The offense was terrible. The defense was slow, but I think slowly over the course of the last several months, they have found their rhythm together. They are operating on a string defensively a lot better. It's not what it was last year, but it's still much better. Rudy is starting to get involved in the offense with Julius Randall giving him little lob passes,

Dante DiVincenzo finding him and just giving him enough touches so that he is engaged on the other end of the court at a much higher level. And then finally, the other piece that I think is really important to their success, since January 1st, they have the fifth best offense and the fourth best net rating. And one of the reasons Mike Conley is not looking like the washed up player

that he looked like early on. He's shooting the ball great. He's playing much better defensively. He is the adult in the room for them. And he's been terrific in March. And he started turning around in February. And that's just so big for a team that doesn't make really good decisions a lot of the times to have a quarterback and a reliable guy, a point guard has really solidified. And so now they look like a team that if they get the right matchups, things go their way, they could win a round or two. They could, I really believe that they could also lose two in the play in and, and be done with this. That's just been how frenetic and, and

Jekyll and Hyde they've been. That would be really disappointing. Oh, it'd be a disaster. Yeah. I mean, looking at the standings as of now, which could change in five minutes, I'm kidding a little bit, but they're probably not catching the Lakers in the three seed or Denver in the four.

I mean, they're two and a half back. It's not impossible. The schedule closes with six games against Brooklyn, Philly, Milwaukee, Memphis, Brooklyn, again in Utah. So certainly not the hardest schedule. But when I was looking at this morning, before I was going to talk to you, it's like, look, five to eight are in play because they have the same records, the Clippers and Memphis at 44 and 32,

but they have the tiebreaker. So again, they're sitting there at the sixth seed. What I like is, I don't want to sit here and constantly be like, hey, matchup to matchup, but I want to do it with you because you've been around so long. And then kind of pivot that into rotational stuff. Because when Conley was bad, I felt like, okay, this is kind of two guys you can ignore when he and Rudy are out there offensively. And I don't know that NBA, I don't know that that works anymore at all. Okay, it used to work.

I would be really reluctant if I'm finched to go, can I close with those two guys? Like DeVincenzo, the best version of him feels like a closing option. Jaden, I know it's kind of hit or miss, but I felt better about his offense. Um, it feels like Randall would be in that group, but then if you go, okay, say it's three six and it ends up being the Lakers, would they want to go small

and play Nas knowing that the Lakers preference I think is going to be to close with Rui and you might be playing into their hands, but at the same time we've seen this small, big thing kind of burn Rudy at times in playoff series in the past. That one to me is like, I think Finch is probably the kind of guy who would say, hey, it's all on the table. And then by game four, he's made the decision.

Yeah, I think so. What we've seen from Finch so far this season is that there have been times where he has closed with Rudy on the bench. There's been times he's closed with Randall on the bench, with Conley on the bench. There are no sacred cows with him. I think there's been a little frustration

within the fan base, especially in the first couple of months, that he kind of really stuck to an eight-man rotation and didn't really maybe incorporate Shannon or Dillingham or a few of these other guys a little bit more just to try and get them some run and see if they brought a different dimension. But when it comes to closing time, when you're leaning on your dudes, he has proven to be pretty versatile and pretty elastic with what he with what the game requires.

What would be interesting in a Lakers series is, even though when they go small, they kind of play big. And I would worry about how the Wolves would close possessions in terms of getting rebounds. They are kind of vulnerable to offensive rebounds, especially when Rudy is off of the floor. And the other part of a Lakers matchup is that, Luka Doncic is one of the very few players in the league that isn't bothered one bit by Jayden McDaniels.

And so how they defend that part of the equation would be would be a concern. But I do think that overall, to your point, in a playoff series, Chris Finch will eventually, I would say even by game three, would say, all right, you know, I'm going to give my best guys the chance and if that's not working, I'm changing things up. He famously sat DeAngelo Russell against Memphis a few years ago. And, and so he has proven to show that he'll do what it takes. And that might mean some hurt feelings every once in a while and managing things, but they got to win games. And that's what he's made the priority.

Pete Slauson I watched the Detroit game on the broadcast with Mike and Jim, because I have like a hierarchy of broadcast partners where I go like, okay, well, it's my favorite part about the night for league pass. I'll be like, okay. And then sometimes it's close. I'll be like, cause maybe they're four seed matchups. And I'll be like, where, who do I want to go with? Uh, Jim wins, wins it a lot. So during the Detroit fight, they're watching it all back. Everyone on Detroit was to blame.

And then I watched the NBA TV post game and Isaiah Thomas was on it. And he blamed everybody from Minnesota. I know that it started with the Stuart DiVincenzo thing, and then it. Amplified again, because DiVincenzo just gets shoved by Stuart while he was on the ground after he ran into Fontechio. Um, and then Hollins on back on the other end, he scores on Nas. I thought Nas overreacted on the foul on Holland. And then I think DiVincenzo was still pissed about being shoved so that he was going to get

involved and then it just turns into this this whole thing. Is there anything from that game considering the way it started? Is there anything from that game where it's like a huge positive for Minnesota the rest of the way? Can that be a rallying moment? Yeah, I really think it was Ryan when you look at how that game was going, Detroit was handling the Wolves. It was 34 to 20 after the first quarter, and they were doing what the Pistons do to their

credit. I mean, they were physical, they were pushing people around, they were the aggressors in every sense of the word in that first quarter. And you could tell when Dante DiVincenzo came into the game that he saw that his teammates were getting bullied and said, I'm going to stand up here. And you know, somebody's got to follow me into this fight. And so what happened was as soon as he hit the floor, he started ramping up the physicality and he went right at Isaiah Stewart. I mean, it's like, you know what they say in prison, go at the biggest guy first and

see what happens. And that's exactly what Dante did. And I think a few possessions into that, you know, I think that everyone in the arena and certainly everyone on the Wolf's Bench understood that this was about to pop off if the officials did not really crack down and they didn't. And so Dante took it upon himself to say, look, man, this these we are not getting punked here in our own building. And did I do I think he maybe overreacted a little bit? Did he absolutely ramped that up from a skirmish into like a potentially dangerous situation going into the stands the way that he did.

But after the game, the Wolves really did respond well to it and felt like, hey, here was one of our guys, one of our new faces that was going to bat for us. And we came back and got the energy and took the game that they needed. But also, I think that there's more of a togetherness now, even then before I think they needed to have some kind of a scrap there. And you know, one thing that this team was missing early on in the season, Ryan was Kyle Anderson and not necessarily from a play standpoint, although they did miss that, but he was like the resident asshole in the locker room.

Yeah, I'm gonna give you that, because it is always, he is sneaky, way nastier out there, because the way he carries his ball, although it's the way he moves, but I'm glad you brought that up, because I was watching him last night from Miami, and he was getting pissed off about something, and I was like, that's so funny that Kyle actually

will get way more fired up than you think because he does it in a reserved way. Totally, and he's a Jersey guy. And even so it's both on the court, but also in the locker room too, when they were, whenever last year's team was not doing what it was supposed to be doing, it was Kyle Anderson getting in people's faces,

being a little ornery and being like, look, we got to knock this stuff off and get back and start, you know, put our big boy pants on and get out there and do it. And so I, you know, they missed that presence in the locker room. And I think Dante is stepping into that role a little bit as sort of the fiery ornery dude that is going to maybe tell some truths, maybe, you know, rat waffles some feathers. But then when you're out on the court, he is fighting for you. And I think they need some of that edge. And that was a big productive moment for them was kind of responding. And then not only, you know, getting into the fight and doing that.

And he came to Nas's aid. And there was a point in that scrum where he like threw Stewart off of him and would push like five people back while his back was against the wall and that's a visceral reaction that they really reacted to and I think that will carry well you know going forward and into the playoffs if things get heated. Thanks for the perspective on the Denver double overtime win and I can't wait man. So we'll probably have you on in the playoffs All right, anytime. Thanks, man John Krasinski the athletic

You want details fine I drive a Ferrari 355 cabriolet What's up? I? Have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. The email address to submit questions to improve your life. Life advice, rr at gmail.com.

Kyle, Sarudy, Worgon. Worgon, I feel like we should have asked you about running with your shirt off. Totally. A huge myth. No, that's on me. I'm the leader. I'm the host. Yeah, I'm a shirt on runner. I don't know if I have the physique yet. Give me a couple months. But you're not ruling it out. No, I guess I'm not ruling it out.

Great. One day it out. Great. One day, goals. Right. Were you dying when we were talking about it just 48 hours ago, being like, guys, I'm right here. I thought about just ripping it off and just unmuting the camera. You turned the camera on for a second?

Yeah. That would have been the best thing you could have possibly done. Maybe there's a bet where the loser has to do the show with their shirt off. Oh, that would be the worst. That would be the worst. That would be tough. There's, there's talks of, um, there's talks of you running a 40 Ryan at this

McShay thing that's going on in your house. And I keep hearing about this big shade thing and I'm like, how much is Ryan clued in, how much, how much does he have a vote on? I said yes to something like a month ago and now I keep hearing versions of it where now I don't wanna do it. That'll be totally honest. I think everyone knows that.

Have you heard the 40 thing yet? Have you heard the, yeah. Is there, I saw people debating whether or not you could run, you know, sub six. A sub five, a sub six? Give me a break. Although I do have to have an MRI on my knee because something keeps snapping.

Here we go. Yeah. Here we go. Cause I was thinking like would work on accurate medical information. We'll do it in the sand. How about that? We'll do it in this.

Yeah. But I was, I was thinking would work on actually run the fastest 40, if anyone on the pod. No, he is, he is a runner. No, I'm a distance guy, you know, Yeah, but I was thinking would Wargon actually run the fastest 40 if anyone on the pod? No. He is a runner. No, okay. More of a distance guy, you know? Yeah, Wargon's backing me up.

By the way, I don't even know. I am fast. The other day I outran a black pepper snake. No, I think the shirt off thing would be just something we have to ask Wargon about in the future. And so I think, can there be like a Wargon alert? Hey guys.

And just like a sound. Yeah. Today's the day. Could you, Wargon, give me a three, two, one, hey guys. Oh boy. Three, two, one, hey guys. God. Even better than Ryan could have imagined. He fucking nails it every time.

You're a gift. I don't even think you're real. All right, so look, if we have another running query, we'll make sure we get that. If we could edit in that sound effect for when Wargon talks to us at all, that would be a nice gift to me. I guess Wargon would actually have to do it. I'll be the one editing it in, yeah. Yeah. talks to us at all, that would be a nice gift to me.

I guess Wargon would actually have to do it. I'll be the one editing it in, yeah. Yeah. Maybe we end with the pod. We end it today with that, the first installment. Because we used to have the hardened I Am the System, and then it just kind of went away, right? Was there a production?

Was there an editorial decision on that? Was it just time, Surrity, to move on? I think we just decided. how many shows was that work on I was probably I was gonna say I think we just started like switching producers around then I got lost that's what I think I'm gonna be free man we've going on wasn't great then guys are making their own editorial decisions there there's nothing behind it other than yeah we had like three different people cutting the pod so yeah, yeah, that's fine.

But yeah, why don't we end with Wargon and we do it in a bunch of pods, not just today. That would please me greatly. Done. Then we could have some nerds email in a week being like, you definitely can't run a sub six. All right. We did get some feedback and I think, uh, I said nerds, we had a lawyer on the bonus. Okay.

Um, probably smart. Yeah. It was really the best advice. I think anybody could hope for. Cause we got a lot of good advice, right? But this advice was so good that I actually forwarded it to the guy. Real life connections. Nice.

Wow. I think so, yeah. Yeah, so anyway. It's got a little council now. Yeah, I mean, if we could actually get people that start dating, but I just don't know that our female woman pool is enough. I mean, we had a guy try to set me up with their friend, which was weird.

Uh, and she was cute. Uh, I don't know if you guys remember that. I don't know. Cause then we said that she was describing the email as Asian. And then we got some people that didn't like that we had described her that way, but I didn't even describe her that way. That's how it came in. And, uh, just reading copy here. Come on.. That's how it came in. And, uh.

Just reading copy here. Come on. Yeah, I'm just reading copy. Thanks, Kyle. And I think on top of that, like not knowing the guys, imagine if it had worked out. Imagine if I had just randomly started dating a girl that dudes had forwarded me her picture through life advice.

And then it's like on month seven. You gotta come up with a good origin story. When they're like, so how'd you guys meet? Yeah. It just like, so how'd you guys meet? Yeah. It just like actually Tinder sounds way better than what we got. People around the office are just like,

hey, you know who's really happy right now? Rosillo, what happened? I met this girl, life advice, email, yeah. You know who's really happy are her friends. So like, yeah, is he coming out tonight? Can't wait to ask him about his bracket. Hey guys. One that got away Kyle. All right. So here was the I think

best. A lot of people send in really good emails, by the way. So thank you. And I but I think this kind of covered it all. Finally, a life advice I can help with I work in payroll for a large company can tell you there are a lot of checks and balances in place both before and after pays to prevent these types of issues. Even if you manage to get the actual money in your account, there are dedicated employees in either payroll or accounting auditing accounts after the pay to check for these types of

errors. These audits could occur monthly, quarterly, even yearly, so there's no time set. You'll be saved. The likelihood of someone noticing is high. It's just if they think pursuing it is worth their while or not. Suri is correct that within reason, there is no statute of limitations on this money and the company can ask for it back at any time.

I've seen my company go back over two years to reclaim improper bonuses and pursue repayment even after employee has left the company. Former employees have taken us to court and used the, hey, they gave me the money. It's their mistake excuse and it doesn't hold water. That being said, if you're going to keep the money, personally, I would keep it. So we have somebody from payroll and accounting with all this information that understands, it says that you should keep it.

This guy was keeping it. Who are we kidding? I think you can go about it the way, this way. Typically, you need to pay back the whole bonus or after the tax amount, depending on what year you return the money. See, that's also another factor in this. Talking taxes, but now who knows? But companies won't come at you for any interest and will most likely let you do a payment plan. I highly recommend that you put this money in some sort of savings account or anything that yields interest, which was Saruti's point. If no one comes back for it in a couple of years and it's going to be safer to use, and if they do come back for it, at least you have

the interest accrued on the money, even if that is literally pennies on the dollar compared to the bonus itself. If they do ask you to return the money, I'd ask them to set up a payment plan so you could pay back the amount over time, interest-free, and keep as much money in your savings account, accruing interest as possible. Most importantly, if you do get caught, don't be a dick to your payroll person. They don't want to do this to you, and it probably wasn't their error to begin with, and they just need to fix it. Plus, they are more likely to set up a favorable repayment schedule if you aren't cursing them

out. Well said. And I think based on the way, if you wanted to play it this way, based on the information that we got from the emailer on Tuesday about how the structure normally plans itself out, I think there's a high level of being able to play dumb that they can't really call you out on. Be like, I've last year's bonus. Yeah, I'm wasting up my shoes and I'm going hard. Yeah, right. But yeah, savings account, Saruti, right?

Yeah, I mean, I'm just doing a little calculating on the side here. Like, you know, you throw it in a high yield savings account for kind of where if they catch you in a year, you make a couple hundred bucks. Apple's doing some nice stuff there, right? You're four percent, right? I wouldn't even mess with the market, you know, because... Oh no, I meant their savings account, right? Don't we read stuff for them? Credit card, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Whatever you want to do, but you know, you get a decent rate. Year, you make a couple hundred bucks at worst, and you give it back. You got to check those interest rates. Apple is great because it just, boom, it's right there. The next thing you know, a couple months later, you look and go, hey, where'd that come from? That's, look how much fun I'm having now. But, you know, I know the smooth holly stuff, you know, is in the news again.

So, just stay locked in. All right, very good. It's the best we can tell you. All right, we haven't read any questions yet. Let's get back to the questions, okay? Work hygiene nightmare. Hey guys, Jim Stats, mostly body weight, upper body workouts and lower body weight training squat,

225 for 10 reps. That's some good stuff right there. I have a workplace dilemma that I need help solving and I figured who better to ask than you three. For context, I work at a large private company. You guys are working home. Great. Yeah.

One guy that interacts with no one. How do you meet people? Stop sending emails to Roscillos Pod. I remember what it was like though. What does he got? Yeah. All right. So I have a workplace dilemma. Need help solving. Ask you guys for contacts. Large privately held company. 3000 employees. Nearly 4 billion in annual sales. They're not going to miss 15 grand in a bonus. Our corporate office has about 400 employees. Now here's the issue. I was in the bathroom at the urinal minding my own business when I heard someone finishing up in the stall next to

me ripping toilet paper, flushing the whole routine, out walks my direct boss who was an executive at our company. And what does he do next? He beeline it straight for the door, endling use. No hesitation, no pit stop, at the sink, no hand washing. Can he even do a dampening? I was stunned. He had to turn the water on and water away. The performance, come on. Yeah, like he saw you. Oh, no towels, damn, yeah. Is it an alpha move? Quick departure from the email. Is it an alpha move where he just looks at you and just, yeah, I don't wash my fucking hands.

Not an alpha move at all. I don't think so. Okay, all right. I was stunned. This man just went number two and decided that basic hygiene was optional. I have to work with this guy every day and now I can't even look at him

without feeling immediate disgust. Shortly after he came by my desk to ask me a work-related question and I couldn't even make eye contact. Since this was eating me alive, I told the coworker in the office next to mine to discuss shortly after he came by my desk to ask me a work-related question, and I couldn't even make eye contact. Since this was eating me alive, I told the coworker in the office next to mine, and his response made it worse.

He's seen this guy pull the same move three separate times, he italicized. In fact, word has already started spreading on our floor, and people are actively avoiding shaking his hand. Like, we're all fist bumps now, air fist bumps. So what do I do here? The elbows. Do you?

Hit him with the elbow, the chicken wing. Do I subtly or not so subtly let him know that people have noticed and this behavior is unacceptable? Do I just accept my fate and stock up on Costco sized disinfectant wipes for every shared surface or do I take it a step further, wait for the next offense and the second he tries walking out without washing, I call him out in real time. I'm at a step further wait for the next offense and the second he tries walking out without washing I call him out in real time

I'm at a loss This guy has a huge say in my work life, and I don't want to jeopardize anything But I also don't want to live in constant fear of anything he touches Well, I can tell you what you probably don't want to do to your direct report is go Hey wash your hands after you take a dump maniac, right? It sucks so bad because if this guy wasn't a direct, you know, your direct report or whatever, somebody who could influence your career, the office in general could just have this whole

like understanding that no one's gonna shake his hand and then he'll just kind of be shamed into getting the hint. That to me is the best way, but yeah. No shakes, Jimmy. Yeah. Everyone's just like, whoa. Give me three feet, brother. I don't know.

I think this is good because you're not the only one, like if this ever gets back to him, you're not the only one who he remembers, you know, this happening to, because now there's five other people who are like, oh yeah, this is all over town. Yeah, so it's like, if there is some sort of like, anonymous way, whether it's a sign or a memo or anything,

like this is not a direct, you know line back to you So if we if you end up going that route I wouldn't worry about the your future being in jeopardy because it sounds like he's just putting up shots and he has no idea Who's you know, he doesn't care. Yeah doesn't care. No, it's not even a thought for him, which is a positive in this situation I have to say like the you know, there's probably plenty of people in the world that don't wash their hands You know, I think we all like to say that we do and we're good people You know that we put the shopping cart back, but you know when no one's watching You know

I'm sure there are people could have put percent of the population that don't but to the arrogance to do it when Multiple people have just been like yeah I saw him walk out just not a hand washer to do it in front of people is nuts Is this an HR issue? like is there like a Toby in your office that you can just kind of put this on and have him be the bad guy and just say maybe there's a company-wide email just saying hey like we would there's been a lot of word of hygiene and people you know there's there's extra so we're putting extra soap in the

bathrooms now like maybe just pass it off on them and that way at least there's some sort of like you know it's out there for everyone to know and everyone knows it's about I never know how buttoned up HR is like, are they like, are they like the commissioner where it's like, actually like I'm here for the owners and it seems like I'm here to help everyone. Yeah. Like HR, I'm sorry to the HR people listening, but most of the experience has been like, Oh wait, you want me to say something that so you guys like don't like this isn't

really I mean look I don't want to turn this into a fucking HR thing because they're gonna get a million emails from HR reps saying that we're dicks but yeah at bigger corporations it feels a little bit more like hey we got a problem brewing with this guy down here it's not like what can I fix for you who's more sensitive HR people or pilots? Find out. Oh my God. Pilot lied the other night. People already don't like him. It's fine. I turned to, I turned to, I turned to Liv and I was like, he's gonna,

he's gonna lie about how long we're going to be on the star Mac. And then he forgot, the pilot forgot that he had already lied when he started the announcement. He's like, probably 10 more minutes. And then he forgot the pilot forgot that he had already lied when he started the announcement. He's like, probably 10 more minutes. And then 30 seconds later, he's like, so about 15 minutes. So he forgot the lie inside. We were on the tarmac for an hour. But again, we've already covered this. We had people in the reach up is that they never say like, Hey, this could be an hour because they lose

the audience. It's like, stand up. The pilot has, has to make you think that it's just 10 minutes away. It's like stand up. The pilot has to make you think that it's just 10 minutes away. It's just 10 minutes away. I'd rather lie to you five times that it's 10 minutes away than just maybe bum you out immediately and say it's an hour away. I think the general public probably prefers that even though sort of like your stuff

with like sports TV content, like yeah, we like to complain about it, but I think overall you'd prefer it to the alternative. Right, all right, so let's get back to shithands. Um, there's just not many people in your life, especially when they're your boss, if you were to say this to them, be like, Hey man, word on the street is this. And so I'm here to help you. That guy's not going to do this.

He already doesn't wash his hands. He's bucking trends left and right. So he's probably not going to have an open moment with you. be like, I'm really glad you brought this to my attention. This is great. Now you're in the crosshairs with him. So you can't ever, ever say anything to him because it's just human nature, even though it's disgusting. He's not going to look at this as help. This isn't the, hey, do you want to mint? This is, Hey, do you want to start washing feces? Yeah, you want to change your core principles. Right. Yeah. Like how, what do you think, man? What do you think? So no one, it's so, it's so ridiculous for you. Well, let me put it this way. Most people aren't going to do this.

They're not going to have this conversation. They've just accepted that this is the hierarchy of things and now I just have to avoid them and that's your deal. And if it's going to drive you that crazy and you're a germaphobe, you're starting getting on LinkedIn, right? But I can't imagine any scenario where a boss would have someone come in and be like, good job. They're going to get defensive. Who do you go? I wash my hands. You know what I mean? You already kind of know who this guy is. Be like, that's ridiculous. It's never happened or whatever. He's not going to go. I'm so psyched that Seth and accounting told me this, that everybody now could, could you be the most devious person ever. And this clearly isn't where you go in and you use this

This is like the nasty stuff, right? You go in and be like, hey, I want to tell you something. I know you wash your hands, but Todd, Greg and Keith Keep saying you don't hold them Diabolical stuff where you're, now you'd have to not like your coworkers, right? And it endears you to him,

it also brings some awareness to him, but you're not being critical. You're actually pretending that you believe. I don't care what they say about you, man. Right, yeah. Yeah. I might think you're great. I think you're great.

Sir? Yeah. This has really bothered side. You're great. Sir. This has really bothered me. It's been bothering me for weeks. I know you wash your hands after you go number two. Just Dwight Schrute it, right? Yeah, I can't believe they would insinuate such a thing. But these dudes are down on the desk and they keep saying this.

So like, what do you want me to do? Do I have authority to? Deputize me. Right. I can handle this handle on your behalf. Yeah. Right. But then you go back to the guys and be like, Hey, I took care of it.

But like, how did I take care of it? Like I told them that you guys had kept saying it. And I said that I don't believe that, but now he at least knows. So we're, man, we're, we're clear to fist bump. What would it like an anonymous email just work? You just created like a fake Gmail account. You got the guy's email and just say, Hey man, I know I've seen, we've been talking about it. I don't know.

I'm not an IP expert. I don't know if he could trace that back to you. Maybe you can, maybe it's a bad idea. Yeah. Some people probably email, but you basically just have to let the guy, I mean, he might not care again. He probably doesn't care if he's like, you know, if we're talking, you know, boomer, maybe he's about to be retired or something.

Who knows? That guy probably does not care at all. Is it worth getting a bone? Uh, whoa, getting a burner phone. I mean, you want to talk about like all, they'll be talking about you at lunch breaks, 10 years from now. Yeah. Burner phone from seven 11.

Text his number. Just be like, Hey, wash your hands. I know what you did in there. Yeah. Sim card, destroy it. text his number, just be like, hey, wash your hands. I know what you did in there. Yeah, SIM card, destroy it. Or just now they're throwing ideas out there. Could you be like the guy, hey, I brought a black light into the office today, everyone wanna see what's going on? Now I was gonna think burner phone for your boss

is the funniest thing ever. Now I was gonna think burner phone for your boss is the funniest thing ever. Just start texting. If he's dangerous. If he's terrible, right, if he's terrible. I mean, somebody's gonna tell on you though. Hard to keep that in the wraps, yeah. Is there one friend you could trust? All right, last one here.

How do you tell your much older ex girlfriend that you're still incredibly close with that? You're seeing someone else. Oh, tough. This guy's making moves. 6-1-1-95 player cop, Brian Gomes. I like that. Lots of three, no D heavy on the feet. Prefer to get the ball out of my hands and often pass up open looks in favor of passing to someone who can actually dribble. More of a slow pitch softball guy. Waterberry? Yeah, Gomes had some nice years. Yeah, what shout to Connecticut. Part of the KG trade, part of history. During COVID,

I dated a much older woman, 20 years older. Whoa, we broke up as COVID ended because the age gap was much more obvious once regular life return to just cuddling nonstop. You know, you had to start going to stuff. Um, well that said, we stayed incredibly close. We're practically best friends. She's generally the best person I've ever met. Super generous in all aspects of the world. Exclamation.

I don't want our relationship to change as we stayed friends through many ups and downs, I don't think she's still in love with me and I'm not in love with her as our relationship has more so shifted to one that's much more like family. The problem is I fear our relationship at times gets in the way of both of us finding someone else. I haven't found, oh, I haven't yet found someone. Oh, so this guy's preemptively worried about it, but I'd like to, and I also really want that for her. He's optimistic.

Yeah, optimistic and a historian. If and when I find someone, I'm preemptively worried about it, but I'd like to. And I also really want that for her. Yeah, optimistic and a historian. If and when I find someone, how do I tell her, how do I start this conversation in general, appreciate you guys and love the advice? So how do you tell somebody you may be dating at some point, but you aren't yet? I think the bigger issue,

and I understand what he's saying, is that, is this friend-zone thing, and I don't know what that means, but assumptions can be made, but we're staying clear of that. There's definitely something to be said of your lack of motivation for wanting the emotional connection, obviously the physical connection, if it's being supplied in sort of a post-mates fashion where it's like, hey, I kind of need this right now. And you have it, but you're not pursuing that anymore. Look, I think the easiest thing to say is just, hey, you need to cut it all off. And that way the thing that you'll want will be more, there'll be more urgency to want to fulfill that part that most people usually want in their day to day

that this is providing a substitute for it. Look, man, it doesn't mean you have to not be friends. Then the fact that she's so much older than you, I would tell you she's probably not even that worried about this stuff. She realizes if she was interested in you that somebody else is gonna be interested in you at some point.

And that's just part of the game. And I would imagine because she's been around a lot longer. And I've been thinking about this kind of in general as like a bigger thing is that it's not so much as you get older, you get happier. It's just that all of the little shit that you've gone through and all the experiences and all the ups and downs that you just are not going to let as many things bother you because you have a collection of things to either be happy about or to be upset about. And when you're younger, you don't realize that. And like anytime your life is derailed, you think it's like the end of the world because you

haven't had 10 of these things happen to you already. So as far as relationships are concerned, I'm not saying it's a little egotistical, but it could be, you know, I could describe it that way. I'm not trying to do that to you. I'm trying to be fair, but I think you're probably likely thinking but it could be, you know, I could describe it that way. I'm not trying to do that to you. I'm trying to be fair, but I think you're probably likely thinking about this thing that hasn't even happened way more than she is and you would be shocked. Not that she doesn't care, but how much quicker she is

just to kind of accept it as the way life works. Yeah, I'd agree. I've never been in this situation before. And, um, I think you're ready with the 20 years older than you. 20. That's what he said. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah, I think you can probably ask her for money right afterwards. I don't know. I think this is totally fine. Uh, and you, the hard part's over, right? This we've had ones earlier on when you were just like, dude, you think you're about to destroy her whole life and maybe she might sound like that for 10 minutes

when you say it, but the shittier thing is to lead them on because you feel like you're postponing this pain that you're gonna get. This part's already done, right? You're just friends now and you're like, I wonder if she'll think it's weird. This is so easy. This is just like do it, see what happens, I you know just try to be the most respectful way that you

That you can when you break the news if it's I don't even know if it's breaking news at this point so Yeah, I don't quite get the email either. I'm just saying stuff cuz I think I'm supposed to I Don't know Like you guys broke up Yeah, and he's just worried about what she's gonna feel like at any point when you start dating again. Because she's older, is this ageist? Is this because she's older?

I don't know, I don't get it. I really don't, I don't understand. Just live your life, man. Like you don't really owe her anything. I mean, it's nice that you guys are cordial, but I don't know, you broke up. You're allowed to live your life. Yeah, you don't even have like the,

oh yeah, it was like a month ago, you know, I don't know. It's gonna look bad if a month later,'t know, you broke up. You're allowed to live your life. Yeah, you don't even have like the, oh yeah, it was like a month ago, you know, I don't know. It's gonna look bad if a month later, you know, I say this and she's like, oh, were you guys talking before? This is like, there's no date that you have in mind that you need to drop, so this is all good, man. Maybe that's what we're here for, just to reassure you. This is totally fine. Yeah, maybe that was just an easy one

or I shouldn't have read it. Yeah. Could it be that? I thought, maybe that was just an easy one. I shouldn't have read it Yeah To be that I thought like maybe she was like constantly trying to get back together with this guy and he's saying yeah I'm saying no and then once he starts dating someone it's gonna be like really real for her But it doesn't die. That's not what it sounds like because in that case. Yeah, that probably would be like in her mind you haven't even broken up yet, but that's not what this is like you kind of gone your separate ways I Don't know Yeah, we ended on a dud. kind of gone your separate ways. I don't know. Yeah. We ended on a dud.

Sometimes you do that. I guess. I don't know. Okay. Maybe a quick, maybe a quick. That was my fault. That was my, no, you're fine. Honestly, I brought up the Ryan Gomes thing and now I I've Googled the legendary

Jim Calhoun, Ryan Gomes rant. So I'm going to go watch that after we stopped taping. We took Karan Butler. He was pretty good. Was it Karan Butler? Mechocophore. Those guys are pretty good. Gotta love Calhoun. It's such a great rant. I love it so much. I love Calhoun, but I have a soft spot for him just because of what that program was and what it was never supposed to be. All right, because of the Liv Tyler plane

ride and then mentioning with Bill, I just like doing that stuff with Bill. I do. Speaking of shirts off, I remember Bill when I was doing those hoop streams for ESPN, it was like a last-ditch effort. Like, what do we do with this guy? Do we just do this? And so I was doing these hoop streams. I was even traveling. Like I flew back and forth, like Connecticut, LA, three or four times during that, because it was like, hey, we're gonna stream these things. I think Jacoby and I did one. Yeah, with Cassidy. Cassidy jumped into one of them too.

I actually got to go to a couple finals games in, what was it, 18? Yeah, it was 18. That's my horrible Steph Curry record when I go to his games. May go tonight. We'll see if he can bet the Lakers. It's unbelievable that a guy who wins that many games

and is one of my favorite athletes to ever watch. Like if I really piece it together, the record is. You did get one win though recently, right? In the last year or two? I did. All right. I did. I got the win I think in the regular season game

that I went to last year when I was in the walking boot from the torn calf running 40s in my spare time. I can't believe you guys that I couldn't run a sub six 40. Doesn't Eisen run like a five nine? I felt like Shay said to Bill, like 5-something. Yeah, that's... I don't know. I don't know. Anyway... Where were we? Yeah, Liv Tyler.

So we started talking, Bill and I, just the nonsensical stuff that we like to do. But yeah, back to Bill and the shirts off. I have like seven different thoughts going at the same time right now, so I apologize for anyone that can keep up. I actually feel bad for you. Yeah, I thought this is gonna be a Bill Shirts Off story

because this is man, good luck if you're watching the podcast captions. Yeah. And then San Sebastian salad dressing. I was like, are you serious? Bill, I was still with ESPN and he was like, hey, I watched that Hoop Streams thing. He goes, I think that has a chance.

Like, I think it's pretty good. He's like, you're good on it. I was like, okay, cool. He goes, you know what I think you should do is take your shirt off. And I thought like, what does this guy think? Some fucking clown? Like take my shirt off for an ESPN Hoop Streams

next to Cassidy? Like in Jacobi? I was like, maybe he's trying to drive my price down. Who knows what this guy's doing to me right now? I remember just thinking like that was weird, but maybe he just felt like the stream thing was informal and it was just something to build to. So anyway, it wasn't like a let your hair down. Yeah, maybe I took it too literally. Bill's going to hear this and be like, that's definitely not what I meant.

Maybe he said that because he didn't wanna say hair down or hurt my feelings. Sure. That's probably what he meant, Kyle. Wow. Life advice. Just help me out. Help Ryan today, yeah.

That makes one. I like the nonsensical stuff at the end with Bill. I like talking about TV shows. I love bullshitting with him. I actually think the audience likes that stuff as much as any of the basketball stuff. This pod, I think, would be a good example of that theory. So because that last email,

and by the way, good luck to you, man. Yeah. We got an email here because I had mentioned, like at some point, it's like sitting next to Liv Tyler. I was like, I want, I have to watch the tournament game. Like I really wanted and thank God I got to watch the end of Florida, Texas Tech, right? Into Bama Duke a little bit later.

And this email popped in and I think people understood it. Not a life advice, but I wasn't sure it was qualified for Friday feedback either. So we're just going to try to save the end of the pod here. The Sunday pod we learned about Ryan heads phoning Liv Tyler for the Duke Alabama game. It was actually Florida, Texas Tech and then watch that one later. Thought about asking the obvious,

would he have done the same if it was Blake Lively? But the question is, what's the list of people he could be sitting next to or Ryan would have left the headphones out with an Elite Eight game on. Ooh. Elite Eight, no headphones. Keep the conversation going.

Cross-country flight, five plus hours. Who would I say I can't put the headphones in right now? Does it influence it if you're pretty sure they're eventually going to headphones you and you're just like, I headphones you for. No, they want to they want to go. They want it. OK, they want this. Yeah. Sons headphones.

I like saying it that way, by the way, because it's a joke inside joke with our buddies. Somebody tried to correct it. I know who you're going to say. And it was the same person I thought of. Ron Chernow. Yep. Wow.

You guys are locked in. Well, we were just talking about him. OK. And and Mark Twain would be in. Are we going to answer the book show? Here we go. You got to watch on Spotify. What a plug. Yeah, is Ron Chernow the number one guy? I feel like can't.

The number one human. Male cross country flight. You might you give you, but get a lot of stuff. A lot of history. By the way, audio is the road on my way back from New York. Pretty good. I watched it last night. Book certainly better.

We can just put it, put a cap on that. You try at the end. Uh, the, yeah, the audio book for sure. That was, that was a little weird. I book for sure. That was a little weird. You cried at the end? It was a little weird on a plane. I was on the aisle because they upgraded me so I couldn't face the window.

But you started, I mean, you're supposed to cry at the end of that book. Yeah. Maybe you're a badass and you don't cry at the end of that book. I'll always talk to you. I'll never forget. You cried on a plane by yourself in an ILC because you were listening to the road

audio book, but nobody knew why you were crying. Yeah. That's where you're in the pod. Yeah. That might make you cry. Hugh Wargon. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Saruti.

Thanks to Wargon and Jonathan Frias. Cormac McCarthy. Podcast and Cormac. Podcast and Cormac McCarthy. Yeah, absolutely. Check out Blood Marine. You won't cry as much. Audio booking it now.

Yeah, you'll be confused. Maybe I can. I don't know. I read that book and I was like, am I an absolute raging idiot? It was tough. The dialect to be a bit challenging with old C Mac. But anyway, yeah. Thanks to everybody that works on the show.

Ryan Roussel podcast video podcast. I'm going to leave it there. I'm going to leave it there. I'm going to leave it there. I'm going to leave it there. I'm going to leave it there. I'm going to leave it there. I'm going to leave it there. I'm going to leave dialect can be a bit challenging with old C Mac. But anyway, yeah. Thanks to everybody that works on the show. Ryan Roussela Podcast, VideoPod on Spotify, and also our YouTube page. Please subscribe to Ryan Roussela Podcast, Ringer Spotify, Oregon.

Hey guys. Must be 21 and older, present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.