The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Airing Out the Jokic and CP3 Laundry, Jay-Z vs Nas, and Life Advice With Van Lathan

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

Russillo shares his thoughts on a John Collins trade finally coming to fruition (0:39) before he is joined by The Ringer's Van Lathan to discuss Van's past comments on Nikola Jokic and where he stands now, Chris Paul's trade to the Warriors, a hip-hop rabbit hole, and more (12:39). Then, Van and Ryen answer some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (59:51). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Van Lathan Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

on today's pod we break down the john collins trade not a strong market but he's now part of the utah jazz or look at that deal and maybe a little dame a sliver of dame van latham uh we're going to talk about his yokich downfall um but's good. And then we just get into all sorts of stuff, like literally a lot of different things. And then he does life advice. And for just a little warning here, it may go a tad more aggressive than it has in the past. Enjoy. Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Not the biggest headline we've ever opened the podcast with, but John Collins was traded to the Utah Jazz. I want to talk about the deal. I want to talk about the market, some of the other stuff, and then just really who John Collins is. So three years, $78 million remaining on his contract. $25.5 million, $26.6 million, then $26.6 million a player option when it'll be $28 million. I know I always make the joke about I could probably pick that one up. He might not. It plays well in Utah. Will Hardy's a terrific coach. Maybe he figures some things out. And at $28 million, he decides, you know what, I'm going to go back to the market with a rising cap. Speaking of contracts, real quick, got to throw this in there. Dame Lillard's contract, I had said I think twice in the last few weeks because I was surprised.

I was like, wait, it's up in two years? That happened fast. No, it's not up in two years. My mistake. I'm going to fight through it, though. He has a deal going through 26-27, will be 36 years old, and that's a player option for about $63-plus million. You can insert the joke, Ben, again there.

So, yeah, that would definitely make me more hesitant if I'm another team that feels like he doesn't like the other team going, do we need to do this? Now, I really think if you have cool owners, owners that are willing to kind of understand this, be more flexible and then dip into the tax every now and then. If you have owners that go, all right, you know, it's not great, but we'll figure it out. And I actually think Miami has that approach to it. Miami would be the team that goes, look, we're trying to keep this going now and adding in Dame for whatever other pieces. I just don't know what the Portland fit is where

they could go, okay, we can trade Lillard for a foundation of this. And then you also factor in Miami's just so well run, how valuable would picks be from them in the future which is another thing you have to factor in so yeah needed to uh update that one because I kept saying it wrong a couple times speaking of Dame and I promise I'll get off this because I think we're all sick of talking about the daily updates for it uh would you do scoot for bridges to the nets now before bridges turned into Brooklyn Nets Mik Mikael Bridges, I definitely wouldn't do it. I just wonder if you're Portland, and we cannot overstate this, when you have a superstar in your small market, a place that is not an NBA destination, you probably want to exhaust. Again, if you like the guy and everything like that, and there's no reports out there that it's become an issue or it's untenable.

and everything like that. And there's no reports out there that it's become an issue where it's untenable. If Portland wants to keep him because he's so valuable to what they are as a franchise in that city, I wonder if that's the kind of deal

you could go to him and say, look, this is probably the best that we can do. Gets us off a young player. I would do it if I were the Nets. I really would. And that's just me liking Scoot a lot. And even though I thought Bridges

was a completely different player with them, you wonder, okay, is he really that guy's the number one option on a team that's fighting for the playoffs? Like, look, I don't even want to doubt him because Bridges was just so fantastic with Brooklyn with more opportunities and even showing us offensive stuff we hadn't really seen before. And I know he'd had some big point games for Phoenix when some of the other guys were out, but it's just something I was thinking about with all the different trade stuff that's out there for Dame. All right, so back to John Collins.

So Utah takes on the three-year 78 mil with the player option we mentioned in the back end. Atlanta gets Rudy Gay, who picks up his six-plus-million-dollar player option in a future second. That's the market for John Collins, right? Somebody that's been in trade rumors for, what, over two years. And at times, you would heard stuff about what Atlanta could do for him. And that's what teams do with all their guys. They don't necessarily even want to trade him, but they just start talking and talking.

And that's why some of the stuff that gets out, I'm like, well, I don't even know if that should have gotten out because it could have just been a casual conversation of like, hey, do you think you'd ever do this for this? Knowing both sides would never do it. And I'm pretty sure that Atlanta over the years of shopping Collins just didn't really like the offers clearly, right? They didn't like any of them enough to ever pull the trigger on any of this stuff. Or maybe they were hoping that Collins would revert back to the guy that we saw in his third year. And we'll get to that here in a second. But that should tell you something, that this is basically a salary dump. He didn't get any kind of asset here, really. Now, I know you're saying, Hawks fans, what about the trade exception? Yes, it is significant. $25.3 million. I think it's the largest trade exception in the NBA right now. I know you've heard me talk about this before.

Welcome if you're new. But Bobby Marks, who used to work in the league, works for ESPN now. I was talking to him about it. This is a couple of years ago. And I said, do you have like any thoughts on the trade exception and how often they're actually used?

Because they really always seem to be this, this sparkly thing that fan bases get excited about everywhere. Like, oh my gosh, like what about this trade exception? And of course he had a 70 page database that he shared with me hasn't been updated recently but the numbers came in like over 70 of them aren't even used and if you start going through like in the 70 pages i was looking at this morning the number of times the trade exceptions used for something that's over a 10 million dollar

transaction is even more rare so yes it's a thing and it's a possibility. And I'm not saying that it's not going to be used, but when you think of it, like the way the trade exception always feels like it's marketed, it's like, wait, we can just get like a $25 million player for free, even though we're over the cap. That's awesome. Okay. But think about the other side. Who exists on the other side that's not even a really good player like is okay that's that expensive that is only going to be worth a second rounder or a couple second rounders and then trade it into the trade exception where the other team isn't really getting anything back like if that player's that expensive and kind of good don't you think you get something better

than just trading into the trade exception? Now, yeah, there's different pieces and different movement and all that stuff. So you don't have to use all of it. But I always feel like those are totally overblown. And because they're so rarely used, I think times like fan bases can even forget. And we're like, oh, we had what?

Two expired? Like, oh, what was that? So we'll see. Not saying it's impossible. History says not likely. And then think about both moving pieces, not just who you could potentially get. I remember Celtics fans talking about this massive trade exception forever being like, oh, well, wait, could they do this and do that and do all these different things? It's like, well, it's likely not going to be anybody that's really good because if you were really good and available in the trade market the other team could probably do better than just your exception and what other spare pieces you're throwing in there so we've covered that yeah i mean the funny part of you like you

mean like a john collins type like yeah there you go You could maybe do that in a trade exception. So Atlanta moves under the tax for now, way under the second apron problems, which is why the Collins market may have been even more difficult to find a partner with because any of the teams that were good, that were already expensive, are looking at the new financial restrictions

saying, all right, now this is even a less likely deal because we don't want to screw up the flexibility. So that also hurt the market there too. But I know the owners had said the front office has the green light to go into the tax. And yes, we've had multiple ownership groups here over the last couple of decades, but Atlanta's paid the tax once in 20 years by my count, and that was for like 600 grand. The new owners also remember dumped Kevin Herter last year for Justin Holliday, who was hawked for 28 games. Then he was traded also for partially a trade exception,

some other pieces in there. Moe Harkless was in that Herter deal. He played zero games. They also got an exemption when they flipped him, not that soon after. So, you know, in the Herder deal, they also got a 24 or 25 first round pick that's top 12, top 10 protected. But that was, based on Herder's talent, kind of a salary down, right? Because they brought in McDonavich.

They brought in Murray. They had the Trey Young extension. They've got the Clint money, they've got a Congo decision to make, they've got the Hunter extension as well. So, you know, they've been paying some guys, but it's just something that I'd say, okay, well, maybe they'll go into the tax. But even with this group not being there for the full run that I've talked about here and the Herter deal alone, you're like, okay.

So let's finish with John Collins. Who is he? He's 25. It gives Utah a huge front line with Markkanen and Kessler. He could probably play the small forward or power forward, although we're pretty much positionless on a lot of this stuff, although Kessler's probably not

going to play shooting guard anytime soon. If you're a Utah fan, you're pointing back to that third year he was in the league, right? 1920. The team wasn't very good. The Hawks won 20 games that year, but he was 22 and 10 on 58% shooting from the floor,

40% from three. He makes his free throw, 78% for his career. The problem is you're like, where's that guy? What happened to him? I know there's a bunch of different theories. Some

may be accurate. Some might not be. I'm not sure that I'm a hundred percent convinced of it, but the points from that time to last year went from 22 to 13, five less field goal attempts per game, only three less minutes. So it wasn't like his time was totally cut with some of the other picks that they've had here and inserted in the lineup. The field goal percentage from that season to this season, 58 to 51. The three-point shooting, 40% that year to 29% this year. The rebounds, 10 to 6.5. You could argue that maybe Clinton and Kongu getting out there grabbing a couple extra to make the numbers look much worse. I know what you think I'm going to say is like, oh, once Trey Young got there, he was a mess. But look, in that third year where Collins had his best season, Trey Young averaged 30 a game. It

took like over 21 shots per. So the Trey Young experience was already happening. But I'd also have to admit that playing off of Trey, which you've heard me say before, probably wasn't the greatest time. And I just don't know if Collins, it felt like he got stuck in the corner a little bit more. There just wasn't going to be a lot of stuff between Murray and Trey in some of the shooting and then some of the lob stuff.

It felt like Collins was kind of left out a lot of the time. What I will say, which is hard for me, I don't have a stat pack to throw at you here. I can just tell you, years of watching games and hours of watching these teams, there's just something off with him. There can just tell you years of watching games and hours of watching these teams. There's just something off with him. There's just something I don't like.

I know he's super athletic. I know he's great in transition. I know that there's a really good chance he's a better shooter than we saw this past year. I think the Trey thing has some truth to it. But like I said, when I point out his best season, Trey was just entering kind of prime scoring Trey Young. So he's already played with that and actually done well. He just, whether it's a drive and then a late pass where he had to lay up, you're like, what was that? Or the shot attempt or the not really being able to dribble because unfortunately for him, some of the things you liked

about his size and these perimeter skills that he flashed, when you don't get to do it in a game for a long time, that part of your game can just dissolve. So the shooting has to come back a little bit more comfort into one or two dribbles. But I know Atlanta fans are probably, I don't know if they're agreeing with me or disagreeing with me on this one.

I'm sure Utah fans are disagreeing, being like, no way, this guy's going to be awesome, Will Hardy, all this stuff. He might figure this out again, but the total package with him, just some of the approach stuff, the decision-making, where is he? Because there can be playoff games

where he'll have single digits and there's other games where he hits a few shots, you're like, oh, hey, John Collins. That's who I think he is at this point. And so it's not that expensive. They had the cap space. It feels like Utah's trying to add somebody else to the backcourt, and we'll see.

There you go. My John Collins summary. Van Lathan, back again. We've got him on Higher Learning. We've got him on Prestige TV, The Ringer Verse. He's all over the place. There's a lot of different things that I want to talk about. Whenever you're here, I just want to catch up.

What's up? I'm chilling, man. What's up with you? How's it going, bro? I'm great. Things are good. Do you want to tell whenever you're here i just want to catch up what's up i'm chilling man what's up with you how's it going bro i'm great things are good um do you want to start with yokich all right you want to start with chris paul well first of all let me let me just no actually fuck it let's start with yokich let's fucking start with yokich okay all right let's let's do this give us the timeline of your yokich thoughts just to get everybody caught up. All of the sharks in the water right now swimming around for pieces of dark meat like chum in the water. Okay.

Let's start with Jokic. So look, this is how the Jokic thing started. I'm going to come clean here on my buddy's show, Ryan Rosillo. Okay. I'm going to come clean. This is how the Jokic thing started. I said that maybe there was a little bit of a mirage factor to Jokic because he hadn't won in the playoffs.

Bill, oh my God, this is crazy. So then Bill, me and Bill and fucking Tommy Alter had a whole conversation. And in that conversation, Magic Johnson's name came up, Larry Bird's name came up. All I said was, hey, I don't think it's fair to compare Jokic to Magic Johnson and Larry Bird just yet. And Simmons outed me on Twitter. And ever since then, I had to double and

triple down. This is what I do. My dad calls this dickhead momentum. All right. I've talked about this before. It's when you kind of know that you're wrong, but fuck it. We're fighting in the wire. Remember what Avon said or what Slim Charles said? If it's a lie, we fight on that lie.

I watch basketball at a certain point because after that, I had to watch every minute of every Nuggets game. I watched the Nuggets two or three times a month before then, right? But before then, not after that, I watched every single minute of a Nuggets game. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, I'm probably wrong about this. Okay. I'm probably wrong about this. The guy's the Terminator. Nobody can guard him one-on-one.'s fucking over everybody he's making passes to where he makes the pass and i go i turn over and then aaron gordon comes out nowhere dunks the ball

okay and he's also making he's also doing things on the basketball court that are simple but that nobody does as soon as he sees a double he kicks it out they know they repose go back into their action he's just playing the right way every single time the ball comes to him if there's a pass to be made he makes the fucking pass and then he shoots the three and then he would do something that really i felt like he was doing just because he knew that i was watching right he would just get a one-on-one and just dominate somebody just to just to let guys like me know that hey aiden can't fucking guard me. It doesn't matter who you throw at. You throw at Anthony Davis, I will demoralize him. All right. But I had to keep it going until I just shut up about it. Guess what? I'll say it here right now

for everyone. Jokic is fucking phenomenal. He's the best player in the NBA He can pass it He can shoot it He can dominate Alright, that's it It's a fact Van was wrong About the Mirage thing Was wrong

But I do think it's fair Before we put somebody In the same sentence With Magic Johnson And Larry Bird to let them get some of those accolades. You guys, one, I lost. Jokic is Moses and Jesus combined. He both saved all the people and he saved the people in the New Testament as well. I'm serious. He's the man. All right. I know you're liking this, Ryan.'s the man all right i know you're liking this ryan you're liking this i know you're enjoying this but here's the thing yokage is the fucking

one i became so much like people i it was i was called a racist which i always love by the way would you guys when you guys call me a race i love love being called a racist, but I was called a racist I was called a casual, which I am, I'm what's called so if you get a steak and you get it medium you know medium plus you know like right after medium I'm a casual plus

I'm a little bit more than a casual, a little bit under than fucking you and KOC I'm a casual plus took me a second shout out to the Denver Nuggets I'll have fun rooting against them for the next five years at least I think the biggest thing that I saw for and this isn't me going like hey let's have Van on to do because first of all because I like you and so it wasn't like I was I didn't I didn't have the same distaste for the point that you were trying to make that I have for some of the other Jokic stuff.

Because I think one of the points where it was in your favor was, why are we already comparing him to Magic and Bird? Or specifically Bird? Well, I know why they're comparing him to Bird, but the public. I just, there's a resume part of it. It's kind of like is Mahomes Brady. He might be more talented than Brady is, and he's on a trajectory, but we're not going to know the answer to that

for another 10 plus years. And for resumes, it's going to be tough to top that. So the Jokic playoff stuff, I think was partially true, but also not having Murray for like two of those runs. It was weird because in a way, Jokic is getting the individual accolades. He's in the MVP run again this year. MVP years and you're like, wait a minute, why isn't this guy doing more? If he's really this dude, why isn't he doing more? Jokic and Denver being so out of the title contender window there for two years and then winning it this year, I actually think it helped them. It helped them avoid some of the pressures that other teams have when they keep failing, kind of like Boston,

where people are like, they're really going to run it back and go right back into it, and they're close to running it back. But it feels like Tatum and Brown deal with what's wrong with these guys more than Denver did, despite who Jokic was, because Murray wasn't there. I'll tell you this. They were never going to have that pressure because nobody cares about them. First of all, I was wrong about the playoff thing i was wrong he didn't have his they probably would have been high level championship contenders prior to this had they not had the injury luck that they had also maybe i don't know i don't know if they're going

to beat phoenix two years ago i because bill did this with us and i i think it's a little dangerous just retroactively like oh oh, they have Murray, so that means that they were already this team. I don't know. I think that's an assumption either way. So go ahead. But you look at Gordon, who a lot of people looked at that,

looked at Aaron Gordon as a player that wasn't necessarily a winning player. But you looked at what he's been able to give them. Man, against the Lakers, KCP played like Ray Allen. You know what I mean? I mean, he reverted, but still, it was like, so I think not just in terms of me,

not just was Jokic a little bit underrated by me, but Mike Malone and everything that they've been able to do with the pieces that they have. They've really been able to make not just an offensive identity, but a defensive identity as well. They're gritty. They've really been able to make not just an offensive identity, but a defensive identity as well. They're gritty. They play hard. They respond to every single challenge. You can't bully them. You can't outfinesse them. They're really versatile, a really solid basketball team with good depth and good cohesion.

So that's a fact. I don't know if that would have come a couple of years prior, if they would have had all their guys together or if they needed a couple of extra pieces, you know, it's like Bruce Brown and all of that stuff to kind of come in. Braun, the kid from Kansas, all of these guys were able to kind of find themselves in different ways at different points in the playoffs. And it really worked for them. is like people, places like, uh, guys like James Harden, um, Jason Tatum, uh, Chris Paul, other guys around, these are really high profile players. They're high profile players in a way that Nikola Jokic still isn't. Like Jason Tatum is still at this point right now, a higher profile player than Nikola Jokic. And part of that doesn't have anything to do with basketball. And this is the part that I think people sometimes don't have a good grasp of. When people say it's unfair that Jokic isn't a bigger star, that more people don't talk about

Jokic, I understand what they mean from an emotional standpoint. But in American sports culture, very rarely do we talk about athletes who don't talk about themselves. And that's been going on for a long time. For a long time in this league, Tim Duncan could have been argued that he was the best player, right? Sure. There was never a situation where kids were like,

I want to be like Tim Duncan. They still wanted to be AI. They still wanted like Tim Duncan. They still wanted to be AI. They still wanted to be Kobe. They still wanted to be Tracy McGrady because those players were just more marketable as stars.

Like, I had this argument again with people and they were like, like someone once told me that if Jokic was a 6'9 black guy from Alabama, that he would be the biggest, if he was a 7'4 black guy

from Alabama, he'd be the biggest star in the league a 7 foot black guy from Alabama, he'd be the biggest star in the league. I said, no, there's never been, black or white, a guy like that who didn't have any personality who, I'm not saying he doesn't have any personality, I'm saying he just, you know what I'm saying? He's not selling. A guy like that, who was

the biggest star in the league? There's never been. Like, Bird, to be honest with you, is the closest thing to that. And even Bird's surliness, his arrogance, his flair, there was something that a large portion of America related to about him.

And also, he was American, French Lick, Indiana. There's something to that. And he also had a foil in Magic Johnson that they could go back and forth of. So a lot of this stuff has to do with denver and it also has to do like with the fact that he doesn't care to be a captivating personality that's not who he is he goes out there like the terminator red beams in

his eyes heads up display and kills everything on the basketball court. And then this motherfucker goes and rides some horses. So if it's going to be about whether or not Nikola Jokic can be the face of the league, I think that people are going to still bump their heads up against other players who, for whatever reason, people fucking dig more as personalities and not necessarily as basketball players because it's very difficult to argue right now that he's not the best player in the league. Yeah, I think that's the best part about this is that next year,

a lot of the bullshit that we've seen the last two years regarding the MVP thing, like, I just don't know if, however you want to define that camp, that group, like, they just, they're going to have to lay down the swords on that one. Right. They're going to have to lay down the swords of like, oh, some of these numbers don't mean anything.

All this stuff. Because he controls it every single time. And like you said, I remember watching the playoffs where I went. It's so weird when he makes a mistake. Because every possession is like the right possession. But as far as star power and that stuff, you're right too. Because when you're a little kid and you're outside and there's a hoop, if you're lucky enough to have a hoop or you're somewhere else,

a lot of times it's you dribbling by yourself. You're not setting up at the elbow pretending to hit cutters that are imaginary friends. You're not doing any of that stuff. And then I think the American international part is just the reality of it it's just the reality of you know if the guy were the personality part i would i would defer to you on but i think we're also agreeing on just the reality of a guy that's from a foreign country that most people can't point to on a globe there's going to be a slight disconnect with younger kids that are from this country it's just i don't i don't know why that would be debated.

So I watch a lot of boxing, right? Right. A huge amount of boxing. And in that sport, very rarely is the best fighter in the world the biggest star in the world. It happened with Floyd Mayweather Jr. for a long time. And people

can say, you know, whatever they want about Floyd's resume in terms of when he fought people and all of that stuff like that. But the reality of it is that he was the most skilled boxer for a long time and he also happened to be boxing's biggest personality. But man, if I talk to guys about Inouye or about for a time when chocolate tito was the number one fighter in the world or for a time when you could argue that andre ward was up there in terms of pound for pound like there's all kinds of things that stop guys right for for a long time triple g was knocking everything that he fought out. He was just brutalizing people. And he wasn't on pay-per-view.

It was all HBO Championship Boxing. And the reason why was because Triple G didn't speak great English. You know what I mean? Because he didn't speak great English and he couldn't really sell a fight, the fact that he was the most dominant fighter maybe in the world,

I don't know if he ever made it to pound for pound number one, meant that there was a ceiling on his star power and there have been other fighters from other parts to be like god if this guy just like like just spoke english or if he could get to this now if you're a mexican fighter is different because you got a whole country with you and all of that stuff like that i'm not saying that any of this stuff is fair i'm saying that star power argument and the best player argument are two completely different things yokich has cemented that he's the best player argument are two completely different things. Jokic has cemented that he's the best player in the league to me.

You'd have to be a real hater not to believe that. I think Giannis is the best two-way player in the league, but Jokic just drug his team all the way to a championship, right? He just took these guys all the way to the championship. He's got a good team. He took them to the championship. He's the best player in basketball. Whether or not he wants to

be the biggest star in the game or be the guy that we all talk about all the time, I don't know. And I don't know if it'll ever happen. Yeah. I don't think this is that different than just expanding on the principle of like, if there's a kid from your hometown, right? If there's a kid from your hometown that plays D1 college ball, then there's an extra piece of pride in that, right? If there's a kid from your hometown that plays D1 college ball, then there's an extra piece of pride in that, right? Then if that kid were to make it to the pros and you knew them or you're to the point where you're of the age, you have a kid who played AAU with another guy and then he's maybe going to get drafted. There's a connection to it being something that feels a little bit more local.

And I think there'd be pushback from me saying like, well, Jokic may have to look. He also doesn't want it. So that's the most important thing. But the struggles that Jokic would have maybe relating the same way American star would to like a young group of kids. And you can say, well, what about Messi? What about Ronaldo and all this stuff? And young soccer fans in the states that love those dudes. Yeah, but the difference is we don't have a full league of American soccer players

or a version of international soccer where the best soccer is being played in our own country, like we do basketball. Yeah, they're the only guys we can love because they're the best guys at this. You know what I mean? They're the best guys at their sport.

So if there was an american i've always wondered this too if this will ever happen if there was an american guy an american soccer star that was messi or ronaldo bro it would be nuts like it would as as big of a star as messi ronaldo mbappe Neymar, all of these guys, even David Beckham was the closest thing you got to that. David Beckham was never quite the best soccer player in the world. power actually was probably a little bit higher than what he did on the field because he was kind of the celebrity married to posh spies he could he spoke english he was a white guy all of that stuff matters when you're building a star brand and people don't think about that when they think about you know michael jordan or some of these other guys. Michael Jordan was the best basketball player in the league. He was also a great looking,

charismatic pitch man who was able to like translate culture, basketball culture to the entire world. Muhammad Ali was the best fighter. He also could sell a fight like nobody else. world. Muhammad Ali was the best fighter. He also could sell a fight like nobody else. Mike Tyson was a little bit different, but he had this entire story and he was quirky enough and he said crazy shit enough. So for the other part of it, I think people are going to have to... One part of Jokic's argument is done. The other part is just not about basketball. argument is is done the other part is just not about basketball and if it's not about basketball let him decide if he wants to be on the corner on the cover of a Wheaties box or in all of these commercials or do all of that stuff I don't think that he wants to do that though yeah okay you want to ask me about Chris Paul yeah man look let me tell you something right now, bro. I saw that you were talking to Chris Paul.

Ryan, you know, bro, look. You really connected, bro. Out here in these streets, you really got, I see you doing your thing. You're out here, you're talking to Chris Paul. Chris Paul's, what is he? Is he 39?

Yeah. Okay. So let me tell you what this Chris Paul situation is in Golden State. This is a Jay-Z, Nas type of situation here. And I'll tell you why. Jay-Z and Nas went back and forth, right? By the way, Chris Paul just turned 38. My bad. I should know that.

We're so close. Yeah, it's your friend. It's your friend. You guys grew up all the way back in the day. It's all this stuff that you guys go. It's your pal. It's your guy. Joan Chevron.

Yeah. Yeah. So Jay-Z and Nas have a battle. Go back. The youngins might not remember this, but I was in college at the time this happened. You remember this. You like to tell people that how much you love hip hop and all of that stuff that makes it,

you know, it's like a Ryan hip hop thing. It's part of your, Hey, I'm Ryan and I'm cool thing. I dig it. Um, like,

like, wait, so you have to tell people he likes hip hop. That's, that's kind of how I heard that. That's, that's what, that's what I'll say to people.

Some people will say something to me about, man, you know, you fuck with a celebrity. Nah, don't worry about it. He likes say to people. People will say something to me like, man, you know, you fuck with Rasul. Nah, don't worry about it. He likes Trap Car Quest. He's cool. Are we still year three of, oh, you fuck with Rasul questions? Because I'm

hearing this still a little longer than I thought I would. Am I to that point? Yes. Are you hearing? No, not you and I, but somebody else said it to me recently. But what you don't understand is I'm a troll. So if I know that somebody kind of feels that way, underline it, like under, I'll be like, oh, I'm going to Ryan's house.

I can't hang out with you. It's like, nah, me and Ryan go, we hang out at Haddon Beach. We eat canes and we do all kinds of stuff. We just have what I call white boy weekends with Ryan. And you can't come so because you're whatever so I bring it up to him and then they get mad and I go y'all don't even understand what we do

we fucking listen to Tribe Called Quest we watch old LSU games from like 96 and it's the best and you can't come and then they get mad and they're like what so i use you to troll them okay all right all right we did a menace to society draft all all types of shit you know what i'm saying like all different with sydney portier we're doing all kinds of like

we're going deep but here's the thing by the way you watched the original Office, right? The original one? Yeah. When Ricky Gervais delivers that line to, do you know who my favorite actor is? The delivery and then the walk away and the way that is shot when he's like, Mr. Sidney Poitier. Mr. Sidney Poitier. And then the guy's like, oh. And he's like, yeah. And he's like fucking walking away being like

what a win what that guy's gonna now think differently right um so back to your thing right back to the thing so chris paul jay-z nas uh you know nas ether jay-z back and forth like you have takeover great song great song maybe a better song than ether and then you have ether that comes back and just kind of gets jay-z right but in the long run a lot of people will still look at the fact and feel like hove won that battle because uh naz ended up basically working for jay-z later on. Like Jay-Z basically signed Nas. All right. So it was a whole thing.

When I saw that Chris Paul was signing with the Warriors, I love Chris Paul. I love Steph. I love everyone. Okay. That was really interesting to me because obviously Steph has had more success in his career than Chris Paul has.

But the petty in me goes, bruh, the fact that they were seen as foils for so long and now they're going to be together. Even if Paul is running second unit, I don't know how they're going to do this. Even if Paul is running second unit, I don't know how they're going to do this. I don't suspect that they'll do that. I don't know what, you'll tell me what you think the rotations will look like, but is it any way,

does it feel good to win a ring if you had to do it on Steph's team? He shook you, made you fall down. He kind of took the West from you. It was, it's just, it's kind of the petty shit that I wonder if these players really care about. What do you think? At this stage for Chris Paul past his prime,

I don't think it's as egregious. Now that's going to sound like, oh wait, you found a way to stick up for Chris Paul. I like the analogy, except I don't know that paul was ever at steph's level as far as the team success thing he wasn't right i mean i know it's easy to say four rings zero cool rossillo great nba segment but i mean like taking the west from him was it ever chris paul's west no but when i say that what i mean is that there's it was never chris paul's west but the

ascension of steph curry he stepped over chris paul they started fucking over the clippers and it started to become obvious that steph had a level that maybe chris didn't right chris paul is a fabulous player. I personally believe that Kobe Bryant is my favorite athlete of all time. Is Jokic better than him right now, you think? Better than Kobe?

Yeah, if you're going to compare him to Magic and Bird, I just wonder why. Does that mean he's already passed Kobe? What are you trying to do right now what are you like what's going on right you want me to blow a gasket right now all right i just it's something i thought about i'll do it on another podcast do it on another he hasn't passed fucking kobe yet um he has but i'll say this though i'll say that that that that mvp that kobe won you could make a really good argument that that should have been chris paul's mvp

and that the the kobe should have won in some prior years that they didn't give it to him chris paul even at that point was playing out of mind. And he had the Hornets in a pretty good spot, right? So in terms of the level that Chris Paul was going to get to, I think part of the criticism of his career is that people expected at some point one day that Chris Paul would be a multiple champion, that he would be the guy that would win an MVP, that his all-time greatness would be a multiple champion that he would be the guy that would win an MVP that his all time greatness

would be cemented by either the MVP or the championships and it seems to kind of have not happened everybody knows how amazing how great he is but it seems to have kind of not happened and it did happen for Steph and we watched it

actively not happening for Paul and we watched it actively happen for Steph and we watched it actively not happening for Paul and we watched it actively happen for Steph. So it's almost like Steph kind of stepped in the way of Chris Paul. The Clippers never got to where they were supposed to go to.

That was partly because of the Warriors, partly because the team had some non-winning players on it. But, and now, if he does win it, it seems like he's winning it. It seems like he's signing the Def Jam a little bit am i being too crazy and petty yeah i'm just not there with you on it i'm sorry because you got traded there i i don't think it's like durant where durant

mid-prime goes to golden state which would feel a little bit like Nas working for Jay-Z. I like that. You know, do you think this is weird? Because I always felt like Jay-Z being this like undisputed best rapper in the game thing. I'm like, why? Why is he just the best? Is it the money? Is it?

Is it the aura? Is it all these things like it is peak? I naz 10 times more than i like jc but the catalog the catalog for naz there's definitely like i don't know you're going to be doing any of the second half but his career no skips you know like that's not going to happen so the second half now has been on fire what the fuck you're talking about man now has been doing his thing are you come on come on now what now i've been now i've been doing his thing naz has aged in hip-hop as well as any rapper has man now i've been doing this thing you think that jay-z has had a better second i mean you can argue whether or not he's had a better second half than hove or not but i would say that naz that over the poor if you look at some of the stuff that Nas has been doing with Hit-Boy, I mean, the Kanye album was really bad.

That was bad. But even Life Is Good, all of that stuff is good rap. It's just that people care a little bit less about what he's doing and what Hov is doing. He's moved it to the connoisseur level. Hov has moved it to this

sort of cultural ubiquity that makes everybody care about every single verse that he spits. And that's something that, you know, that again is about, we're not, when we're talking about these two guys, we're not necessarily talking about even musical output. We're talking about musical output mixed with fan lore and how, what Jay-Z means to culture.

He's this sort of cultural behemoth that a lot of people believe never takes a loss, even though he has taken losses. Right, but I think that kind of proves the point is that we're not even talking about just who's a better rapper. We're talking about all of this other stuff that Nas doesn't have.

Business acumen, all of that stuff. Right, it's kind of like some of the Jordan LeBron stuff where you're like, okay, but what about the shoes? I'm like, well, first of all, I'm not picking anybody other than Jordan. And then you add all these other... That's not important. Yes, LeBron's shoes are a little chunky. A little chunky

for some of the smaller perimeter guys out there. But as I try to bring it full circle to the whole thing, I don't know though like who's who do you think is more popular who thinks more popular not just on twitter but like in basketball lore chris paul or steph curry right that's not right it's not close it's not close yeah but is it the same is the parallel is why this point's actually kind of great because the parallels that like when i listen to naz i

this is really stupid and you can call me out for it but i'd be like oh that's like a real dude like that's a real dude and i think some people have hesitated from steph because they're like oh like steph steph early on man he would get shit on just for having like a good upbringing. You're like, wait, so he doesn't have the Iverson factor. Like the Iverson thing was so cool because it just was different. And it was obviously very marketable back to like one of your original points. I guess I would be the guy in the group that would be like, yeah, I'm sorry. Like the rest of my friends at all would tell me like,

Jay-Z is the best. Jay-Z is the best over and over and over again. And maybe I'm just sagging from that. I'd be like, I actually still like Nas better. And they'd be like, shut the fuck up. So there's plenty of people who like Nas better,

right? Yeah. Plenty of people who like Nas better. Nas is one of those guys is born to rap, born to rap, born to rap. You know, I still think about things that Nas has said and they still impact me.

I think the thing with Hov is that there's been very few people who checked off all the boxes like that. Like, who could... You can't really say anybody straight raps better than Jay-Z. He is master level at that. He's master level at swag. He's master level at taste. He's master level at all those things. Now, I have issues with Jay-Z, he is master level at that. He's master level at swag. He's master level at taste.

He's master level at all those things. Now, I have issues with Jay-Z. I don't want to get into a whole Colin Kaepernick situation. I don't think we're to that point yet. I don't even know. Yeah, right. I don't want to get into that entire thing, but I'll say that you can't deny that if you're checking out boxes

in terms of mogul, all of that stuff, that's what he gets. As far as just rapping, there are plenty of guys out there that if we're just talking about just rapping, you're going to put in the same conversation with Jay-Z as far as that's concerned. But when people talk about

Hov is the greatest, they're talking about hits, they're talking about critical impact, they're talking about sales, and all of those things are things kind of like a yoga situation that Nas kind of didn't really ever really gave a fuck about he's kind of an artist artist you know what i mean right for a couple points in his career where he tried to do it and then he kind of came back to it yeah i think uh i think that's fair i think i think we kind of

nailed it uh i would like no but just to add like one little thing because lebron ends up owning an nba franchise like i don't want to reassess the izzy better than jordan shit it's it's like no this is all the stuff you said about jay-z is right all of that is like you know i don't like to look at anything or anyone and be like oh that's unobtainable but like if you're another rapper and you're looking at that you're like that's's unobtainable. But if you're another rapper and you're looking at that, you're like, that's likely unobtainable. Probably not going to happen. Right. If that's the argument, I'm not even interested in having it.

If you're just talking about the one thing that I pay attention to when I used to throw in the CD, when I used to go back to it, just be like, hey, come home. Be like, you know what I want to listen to right now is this. And the number of times it was Illmatic versus anything from jay-z's cat like it's not even you'd think the data was wrong you'd be like you got to run these numbers again there's no way you listen to that this much so when it's when it's rassilo when you're in your hoodie you got your beanie on you know i'm saying you're in queens and you're in Queens. And you're frequenting the club.

Just hanging. No, not even, man. Just hanging out. Just hanging out on the street. You know, it's like Prodigy walks by. You rest in peace. You're like, what's up, Prodigy? And you're like, oh, man, that kid Nas.

Like, when you really, when you was there, I envision you as Jimmy Rabbit from 8 Mile. Like, that's you. Like, that was you in the club. Not necessarily on there. You could have said Cheddar Bob. You could have said Cheddar Bob. I appreciate it. Nah, you. That was you in the club. Not necessarily on there. You could have said Cheddar Bob. You could have said Cheddar Bob. I appreciate it. Nah, dog. I'm not going to do you like that, bro. Jay-Z is not the greatest

rapper of all time. By the way, who do you like? Who do you like just rapping that would surprise us? Just rapping? That I think is dope? Is there anybody you've been going back to lately that you're like oh man i keep going back to this oh brother so look i am on a real kick with like going back to the music of my youth let me tell you somebody that i like that

you guys aren't that you guys aren't gonna believe in or give a fuck about. Because remember, I'm from Baton Rouge, right? Right. I hear the genius in Silk the Shocker. I hear the genius, Ryan. Y'all don't hear it. No, I don't. I don't. Y'all don't hear the genius in Silk the Shocker. Y'all don't hear the genius. I'm going to put it down for all my hustlers,

good relations, I call it. I'm going to call it if it's all over California to turn my back on my soldiers. It's something I never do. You know what I'm saying? I hear the genius in Silk the Shocker. I've been listening to Silk

for so long. What are we going to do? Shock the world, charge it to the game, it ain't my fault. All of y'all listen to Silk and y'all can't hear it like I hear it,

but I hear, and I'll tell you something else, all of this offbeat rapping that people are talking about, these guys from Detroit and some of the guys from LA and all of these other guys that do like the kind of off the beat type of rapping situation, Silk been doing that. And so for me, the one rapper that I ride for that I'm telling you, when I tell you nobody agrees, listen'm listen the people in baton rouge don't agree well people in new orleans don't agree they don't agree i'm telling you the one rapper that i ride for is not my favorite rapper but i think really was ahead of his time was silk the shocker bro put that silk on put that shit on bro i should get you going i'm doing it today i'm doing it today today's a day

one of a new push pull so i'm gonna i'm gonna do it um i love it because you know southern rap i've had a hard time with it historically you're about to fuck up brian you're about to everything that i've built for us right everything that i've built for us which is you know white boy weekend like all of this stuff you're about to fuck up go ahead i will tell you that something happens to you once you get into those state lines though all right something happens to you where like wipe me down comes and you're like, you all shit. That's what I'm talking about.

And you just freak out. You fucking lose your mind. And you're like, all I want to do is only hear this. I want to hear this music. I don't want to not hear it. We got into a car and I was like, we need,

I was like, put it back on. It's all, I don't want to hear anything. I don't want to hear anything North of Tennessee. I don't even know what the rap game is like in knoxville right now i don't keep up with it um so yes there's something i have i think i have to be there but for you today i'm going to put on a little silk what do you think the age is of the last time you memorized a full song

oh man like a full song you know like a new song like a full new song i doubt it's a have you memorized a full new song like within a year last two years so i would say that there is a song that i like there's a guy called west side boogie you ever listen to him no not to be confused with west side guns not to be confused with west side guns not to be confused with west side guns look at that last one i really liked by the way brazil you fuck with griselda i thought i was like whoa like here we go oh shout out to west it felt like yeah man i like i really like that i mean it's not even that old that's that's what, a few months, I think? Yeah, no. Those guys are amazing. But, like, so West Side Boogie, bro. West Side Boogie from out here in L.A.,

he's got some records that I really love. And I actually wanted to learn the lyrics. So listen to how old I am. So I was in the gym boxing with Nick Young. And Nick Young put the shit on. And it's just my self-destruction. Something, something, something. Can't remember.

I'm like, what the fuck? That sounds hard. So I wanted to learn the lyrics. So I put on all my Apple music, the little thing where the lyrics come up. And so I memorized several West Side Boogie songs. You know what I'm saying? And so that would be the last time because at this point, I'm old,

and so sometimes I don't understand what they're saying. I just know that I'm vibing along with it. But West Side Boogie, I love him. He is really a phenomenal artist. He signed to Shady. So he signed to Eminem, Interscope, Shady Interscope. So I mean, I say that to you because I know that you probably need an ambassador

to listen to him so I know that M&M would do that for you so go ahead and listen to West Side Boogie shockingly enough I was not into M&M it doesn't shock me because that would ruin your whole thing you know why it was? it was actually very racist it was very racist

why? because I was just outside of that age. I missed out on Coke, threesomes, and tattoos. It seemed to dudes were like, did you hear about what's going on? And I'm like, what? Man, that window was open in a hurry. And during that time, I'd also start to see a kid with a non-stock muffler on a Mazda 7 just banging, banging know slim shady and he was almost always smoking and his t-shirt needed to be updated so i would see that i was still like in vermont too so i would like go i don't i'm not doing that like i'm not doing that right now i respect the hell out of him i had to go back and be like, hey, there's some amazing stuff here. But because I missed the early window when it was happening, because of a refusal to give in to what I thought was pretty stereotypical at that time, I was like,

I'm not doing that. You know what the crazy thing is? crazy thing is what i was a gigantic fan seven different levels to devil worshiping horses heads human sacrifices cannibalism candles and exorcism animals having sex with them camels mammals and rabbits but i don't get into that i kick that habit i just beat you to death with weapons that eat through the flesh and i never eat you unless the fucking meat looks fresh like Eminem was nuts to me I was like he was twisting up my brain and then I got to 27 and I couldn't listen to it anymore it's just like all went bad like the music spoiled like you can go back and you you can go back and you can listen to to a lot of it now um like the Marshall Mathers LP is still a classic he has some but like I got to a point and I don't understand it's to where it's like I would turn on like kill you when I was just a

little baby boy I used my mother used to tell me these crazy things used to tell me my daddy was an evil man used to tell me he hated me I'm like I'm not I don't want to listen to this it was just it got it was so gnar bro it got it was very gnar to the point to where I just couldn't do it anymore. It's, he's amazing. But like, and I was so into it for so long, but you know,

and there's still great songs and he's still a really important rapper, guilty conscience and all this, but in every song, somebody gets their head cut off and i'm gonna drag you in the forest and do all that i know he's just fucking around but i just i got to a point in life where i just kind of outgrew it but i was a huge fan yeah and because you're good at this and you know we whenever we talk about it like i would never say oh you know whatever i like i just didn't it wasn't for me at

that time and then because of my own bullshit i just didn't understand it then i had to go back and appreciate it but it was it was too late like it wasn't going to take and then you're right like it could be 10 what's going on with you like i remember talking to a buddy i was like hey i was listening to this and he said you know i'm kind of really like just focused on positive rap right now and it was just silence like what the fuck are you sitting out there tennessee you know like oh you bought the disarrested development oh my god i just was like what you know i'm gonna throw an america's most wanted dude but yeah good luck with that. Like I just, I was like, but I would say like recently, whether it's doom, I'm on like a big doom kick again.

And then, um, mad lib, the Quasimodo thing. I can listen to the Quasimodo stuff. I, I just think it's fucking brilliant. Are you afraid of Gibbs guy?

I am, but I'm not real educated on it. I know I like it and I need to really dig in and go through it. Cause you know who loves him is Chris Long. Chris Long loves Freddie Gibbs. He even had him on the pod. So he was like, look, you got to get on. Then he kind of started sending me stuff.

And every time I heard it, I liked it. But there has to be like, when you're outside of my impressionable phase, and I don't know if I have any more. I don't know if I have any more of those. Probably not. But if you're outside of that, it's, and I don't know if I have any more, I don't know if I have any more of those. Probably not. But if you're outside of that, it's hard for you to have the same space for me. I actually think this is a really interesting conversation about creative people in general. But do you run out of ideas?

Are the first ideas the ones you thought about the most, so therefore they're the most, you know, likely to resonate with people. And then you're kind of out of them. Like, look, we've seen different people do that kind of stuff, but like on the other side of it, as you get older, do you become less impressionable?

Do you become almost stubborn about art, music, film, TV, all this kind of stuff? Like, because you've seen it all already. Cause I just can't imagine,

like I was listening to something the other day and I was realizing like how big of a deal, like every song that I was listening to, I knew exactly where I was when I first listened to it. I knew how I felt. I knew how my fucking apartment smelled. Like I just, it just took me back to this moment. And then I was like, will you ever care about a CD the way you cared about this one? And it just time travels you back to it. I'm like, nah, it's not going to happen. I don't think, I don't know that anyone could ever do anything that I would care about that much anymore at this stage of my life. So it's an interesting conundrum for hip hop because specifically as a genre, we've seen it,

we've, we're seeing a lot of people age gracefully in hip hop and we're seeing hip hop artists be able to do things a a little longer but it's still an interesting interesting conundrum for hip hop because of one thing so most directors or um or actors even sometimes or musicians in other genres they have longevity through reinvention like Like they reinvent themselves, right? Right. So if you look at, if you take like, if you take like P.T. Anderson, right?

And you look at Boogie Nights, right? I mean, he comes back to a similar style with Licorice Pizza, but he kind of goes away from that, right? He goes from Boogie Nights feels, Heartache feels reminiscent of, Boogie nights, feels heartache, feels reminiscent of boogie nights, feels reminiscent of heartache.

And then Magnolia feels reminiscent of, of boogie nights. It's kind of the same style of movie that he's making. He can't make that same movie for 30 years. So you see his style grow a little bit, right? You see like a punch drunk love come in and then you see Wes Anderson's like, wait, you can't. Well, I mean, Wes is kind of the guy that I mean, there's always a couple of guys that do do that.

But for the most part, the the filmmakers that that really capture a lot of people, it's like they grow like PT does. Then there will be blood, and then the master, and the movies are different, right? You reinvent, you try different things, you go different places. Even Scorsese has done that. People remember Scorsese for movies like Casino and Goodfellas and The Departed and stuff like that. But in there are also like comedy, The Age of Innocence, The Last Temptation of Christ, all of these movies where he's trying different things. Hip hop is sometimes a genre where it's difficult to reinvent yourself because authenticity is so important. So it's like, if you reinvent yourself from the dude that you told everybody was so real, then what does it mean for that guy? And that's actually one reason why Jay-Z

has been able to be so lauded for a long time is because he reinvented his sound without necessarily reinventing his message. So, Hole first comes out and his premiere, premiere, premiere, premiere, all of these other people but then jay develops a different sound with timbo he develops a different sound with just he develops a different side it wasn't all premiere by the way it was just he would work with premiere a lot but he develops a different sound with the track masters and he and you hear how the blueprint sounds and the blueprintueprint 2 sounds and all of this. And then it's DJ Toomp and No I.D.

He, you know, obviously Kanye West, he reinvented his sound without reinventing his message. And a lot of guys, that's hard for them because they're not versatile enough to do it. And what they want, like if you want Get Rich or Die Trying 50 Cent, he just can't be that guy forever. He can't. Get Rich or Die Trying 50 Cent, he just can't be that guy forever. He can't. That album is about boo-boo,

50 Street guy, right? And so when 50 comes out and he gives you that, he gives you Beg for Mercy, he's as creative and as dope as anybody has ever been in it, right? And he has as much to say.

But the question is, if he gives you a techno album when he's 31 or an album that's inspired by uk grime or something like that will you accept it from him and then if not then you're essentially asking him to make the same album every single time he raps that's another thing that drake doesn't have to deal with because drake isn't locked into this thing of i'm this guy from anywhere drake can basically be a dude from the caribbean one time and he can be a dude from london he can do all of this other

stuff so because it's pop music at that point and i think hip-hop is still kind of uh adjudicating its relationship with authenticity and longevity. That was really well said. That was a great close, and it actually brought us back to Jay-Z. So I wasn't expecting that. You want to do a couple of life advice with us? Of course. You want details?

Fine. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.

Let's see here. Graduated girlfriend still in college. All right, here we go. 185, high school, cross-country and track runner. Trying to get back into shape since I'm carrying a couple too many beers from college around these days. Graduated from a mid-sized college. We'll leave out more details, although he keeps it pretty vague. Barely made it out on time, but I did it. I got a pretty nice accounting job at a nice firm here. About two months before graduating, I started hooking up with a sophomore I met at school. Let's call her Jen. Jen's a really cool girl. We get along really well.

We live about 25 minutes away from each other at home and went on a couple of dates right after high school. Or wait, what? No, right after school, not high school. That would be weird. We're college age. We're college age here. Right after school finished up, we've now been officially dating for about a month. It's been going great, but I'm starting to question whether the difference in lifestyle is going to be a problem for us. I'm working 8 to 5.30 or 6 most days with a 45-minute commute. This makes seeing each other on weekdays difficult. And while for now we can make it work, I'm concerned about what it'll be like in the fall. Plus, I'm not exactly itching to keep going out on weekends at the same college bars I've been going to for years as a 22-year-old graduate. Although, I know you're really down on the idea of doing that. Looking back on it, I don't know.

It's kind of like, I know it just would feel like, oh my God, because in the eyes of everyone that's in that school still, they're like, who's this 30-year-old, even though you were just there months ago. But anyway, also my former school is 45 minutes away from my house as well. So that just makes spending time together a little more difficult. I'm wondering if it's worth it to invest time in this relationship when I have to wait through two more years of us living very different lives along the way. I know the first thing you'll ask is how do I normally do with the ladies? So I'll note that I'm above average looking guy. And I think my track record backs that up. I'm definitely the hotter one in the relationship, but I'm not going to start.

Yeah, but I'm not going to start pulling models left and right. If I were single, especially living at home with my parents for the foreseeable future. I'm pretty sure none of you went through this yourself, but if you have any advice. All right. So right out of school.

I mean, this isn't going to work. We just get to that part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Because here's the thing. If this were the lady that was writing this, I would have a different opinion.

But because the guy is writing this, he is way too rational about her for this to work long term. Because if it was like that for him if it was like that for him he would be so irrational we know how we are we're really into somebody and it's going to be a thing there's no rationality into it before i drove from Louisiana Tech University in Ruston, Louisiana. OK, so I drove from Baton Rouge to Louisiana Tech University in Ruston, Louisiana, three and a half hours away to go on a date with my girl who had a track thing the next morning.

So I didn't want to stay overnight. I drove three hours to take her out, go back to her room, fun, fun time, got up, 11 o'clock, drove back three hours. All right. Just because I hadn't seen her over the summer. Irrational when you're really, just find somebody that you're irrationally into because he's way too rational about this right now. If it was a lady, they always put rationality before anything a lot of the time. But for him,

I don't think he really feeling her like that. That would be my two cents. He's thinking too much. He's calculating the mileage. It's a woman. Well, maybe he's expensing it. Just billing it, billing it. But we don't want to get him in trouble.

I think a couple quick follow-ups on it could be maybe my man wants just some kind of option because he's living at home while he gets the adult life started. Some guys would be fired up to be going back to their school on weekends the girl they were dating. I would find that to be an absolute personal hell.

All of my boys are gone. All of my boys are gone. All of my boys are gone. I'm out at the same bars. And even though I'm sure I know plenty of the juniors, sophomores from previous years, I mean, again, I still stayed in my college town, so I still knew all these guys. But once your crew is gone and then you're trying to do it without them, I don't care how young you are because it's easy for us as being older going, oh, you're 22. Who cares? Don't be in a hurry because I do think that that does apply to other things. And this one, I totally get it. The other thing I need to know more about is her deal.

What's her deal? Are you the only dude she's hung out with or what's going on there? Because there's a really good chance this isn't even going to be your decision. She's going to be like, you know what kind of blows is dating an adult while I have two years left of college. So, that could get old real quick. I remember there was a time, I'm actually not going to tell that story. But,

look, you're right though. It's not even that good. But you know what I'll say? First of all, I think that college lasts for a specific point, but I think college mode, being in college mode, depending on where you are, especially if you're in a college town,

being in college mode, that kind of lasts like 25. In Baton Rouge, you get out of college 22, 23, if you're lucky, college mode, like where you're still going to around the people that kind of lasted like 25 i'll say this about them he intimated that she's more into him than he is into her by saying that he was the hotter one in the relationship that's what he was trying to say when he said that right yeah no doubt But I mean, again, it could be a real rude awakening. All of a sudden, all the girls are getting together. They're doing stuff.

And it's like, I have a man boyfriend. So she may make the decision for you. It doesn't sound like you care all that much, but you may have completely limited options because when you are out in the streets for real and you're like, do you want to come home, but my roommates are awake? Oh, they're also my mom and dad. You know, that's not...

You're going to be Mariano Rivera to be closing down that situation when you still live with your parents. All right. All right. This one's a little bit more adult. You ready? Let's do it all right bring it back okay let's step up the uh the stakes here this title is companionship dilemma congrats to kyle 510 195 haven't max bench in years but five times five and 275 is typically where i'll end my sets all right well it's strong pretty dude. I know you're having some issues with your bench.

We can talk about that quickly. Yeah. My basketball game is somewhere on the ability spectrum between 2009 Eddie House and PSH and a long game, Polly. Ryan, where you be getting these niggas from, bro? Bro, who are these guys who says that shout out to this guy bro like what these guys go from bro just so we're clear am i allowed to chuckle there

shut up keep reading the goddamn story he's fine i just want to make sure okay uh yeah i mean somebody sent one in the other day it was such a good cop that i almost wrote him a personal email because i don't think i was going to read the email but i was like that's the best player cop i've ever heard because it was kind of funny anyway but eddie house is a good a lot of there's a lot of eddie houses out there i still i still argue eddie house in the 1950s there's statues of eddie house outside of every basketball gym in the country eddie could shoot it bro right no i'm just saying like if you just time traveled eddie house 1950s basketball statues of Eddie House outside of every basketball gym in the country. Eddie could shoot it, bro. Right.

No, I'm just saying like if you just time traveled Eddie House in 1950s basketball, there'd be buildings all over the country named after Eddie House. That's just it. There we go. All right. All right. So here we go.

Philip Seymour Hoffman, for those who don't get the PSA. I'm writing regarding a dilemma that only a person of a certain age and still single hopefully could reach. Is there an appropriate age where paying for short-term companionship is on the table? This situation is also assuming legality is not an issue

and I won't be out in the street at midnight offering ladies a ride around town. I'm in my late 30s and make good money and have a great savings plan, aka not having children. At this point, I'm lacking the time and energy to put myself out there and the idea of meaningful commitments not ideal presently. I still frequent bars, but the bar scene now consists of me sitting

at the bar drinking a beer and breaking down pick and roll and drop. Wait, is this about me? Dribble handoff coverages to anyone that will listen. As you can safely assume, basements are not flooding. I'm half jokingly brought up this topic recently amongst a couple of my boys, but they've been married with kids and we were a few beers deep. They thought it wasn't out of the question to pursue, but not sure if I should be attributing that to the beers. Should I be heavily weighing the moral issue or social stigma if people were to find out? I'm certain my family would be disappointed, to put it lightly, but would my buddies ostracize me too? For reference,

most of my friends are reasonable, logical people like yourselves, so thoughts on discovering one of your boys does this may suffice. Also, do you think there would be an issue of never being capable of reverting back to a normal relationship. If for some reason circumstances mindset were to change, for clarity, not a relationship with a companion, this isn't Pretty Woman, I haven't seen it, but that's my understanding of the plot. Alright. I don't know that we've ever covered this one before.

Fan is just getting taught. Go ahead. Yo, man. Okay. Fuck. Okay okay so look um this is the way i look at that when we say first of all we would say short-term companionship it depends on like what we're talking about i mean it really doesn't but i want to know what he's talking about what when you hear short-term companionship, what do you think he means? Hooker. Well, no, but for how long?

Because if he's doing, because think about it. What do you mean for how long? But listen, because think about what he said. If you were to hire a working girl, escort, whatever, to come over to sex work

or to come over to your place, why would your friends know? So, like, why would it be a situation to where your friends would have, are you talking about you're going to hire somebody for a weekend, like, or if you guys are all going on a trip, you're going to hire a companion to come with you? I think he was just going to start saying, like, this is my, sorry to interrupt, but, like, this is sort of my deal.

Now, again, let me jump in. Only because someone recently, you know, not that long ago, was like, hey, you don't know about this? And I was like, no, I don't. It's not my world. I like to cuddle too much. Right. So, you know. No, you can pay for that too.

You can. It's all on the table right right but like he he was explaining to me this kind of deal that exists and i went oh yeah i don't i don't know and then he was like you know and he was kind of like looking at me you know again single getting older and i was like nah you know, and he was kind of like looking at me, you know, again, single, getting older. And I was like, nah, you know, whatever. And he was like almost surprised I didn't know about the deal and didn't know. And it wasn't. It wasn't the old traditional exchange. It seemed to be a little bit more advanced where there was like a feeling of each other out stage. Yeah.

And then it was like, honestly, it felt like you were just paying for a girlfriend. That's what I'm asking. Yeah, right. Because if this guy is talking about, hey, I'm going to have a different girl every weekend, whatever. But there are like sites, seekingarrangements.com, all kinds of stuff where there are relationships between people that are essentially fueled by money. Meaning that these people are accessible to you whenever you want them to be. But there's a financial component to that. The women are probably going to look a lot different than the spouses of his friends. And so because of that, he might have some splannering to do if people go, well, where did

you guys meet? Or how are you guys hanging out if you're somebody that's 27 28 years old or 24 25 years old or whatever it is so he's i guess confronting that for me i guess what i'm wondering is why he's having such a hard time with it and i and what i would say about that is this i'm not surprised I'm not surprised why he's having a hard time because he's isn't broke. You go like emotionally break the glass to do this. Right. So, I mean, this is the thing. There are ways to do this to where, I mean, you don't want to be involved with anyone who's the victim of any sex trafficking.

You want to make sure that you're buttoned up. Is this a PSA? I'm serious. You want to make sure that you're buttoned up in your local... Is this a PSA here? I'm serious. You want to make sure that you're buttoned up in your local jurisdiction as far as that's concerned. But other than that, if you're too busy

and you're going through a phase in life, then that's what's happening. There's somebody listening to this right now who I know will hear this, who is very dear to me, who essentially explained to me

in the late 2000s why this is what they are doing. And somebody just told me, you know what? I'm busting my ass. I just got to this particular city. I just got four or five years out of college. And in my field, it's very fast paced. This is what I'm doing for right now. I don't have time for anything else. Blah, and my field, it's very fast paced. This is what I'm doing for right now. I don't have time for anything else. Blah, blah, blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And if that's, if he's come,

if he's thought about it this much, he wants us to give him a reason why he, why it's okay for him to do it. So I say, just fucking let her rip, bro. I mean, if your friends look at you differently

because of this, then those aren't friends that you want to have. Just be careful. Because if you get into the life, then there are things that come along with that. I would say more that he has to be a little bit more vigilant about if there's some guy that's controlling any of the women that he might see if this is on the up and up, because you could Robert Kraft yourself very easily. So there are risks that are taken in some of these types of situations. But I would think that in 2023, this wouldn't be that big of a deal. Ryan, what are your thoughts? think that in 2023 this wouldn't be that big of a deal ryan what are your thoughts i remember there was a i don't know let me be vague about it but there was a guy i think he had lost his wife no he was older and then you know next thing you know he had like

a wife who was third 30 and he was maybe 50 and she wasn't from here. And all of us made fun of him behind his back. We just did. Right. We were like, dude, seriously. But you know what? Fuck the rest of us. Fuck them. Because we still hung out with him.

Yeah. And we all talk about each other anyway. So that was his thing. Whatever his previous topic was, it pivoted into this being the topic and she was actually kind of nice and uh i think his brother ended up doing the exact same thing because then his brother was like yo how's that going he was like same good same girl no no they that would be fantastic yeah slightly slightly no no no like married married and then she was like i have a friend and then the other guy married her so we were kind of like what the

fuck dude like you can't just go out at happy hour you know like these guys these guys weren't like so off the grid that it you know they they'd already dated other people before or whatever, but whatever it was about that setup, they liked it. And that's what they went home to. And both guys appear to be pretty happy. And other guys that knew him better than I did were like, honestly, those guys are like a lot happier, happier than I've seen him in a really long time. So I think it really comes down to, you know, what kind of price do you think you're paying that's going to bother you and then weighing that against. You're at a point where you're already thinking about this. I'm not super judgy about anything. You're already thinking about this, so you know you want the permission.

You know that in probably another five years, if you don't do it, then you're going to be like, fuck it, I'm definitely doing it now. That's the lane that you seem you're reaching towards here but i would i would just personally have a hard time with going like oh i gotta get another handbag here yeah because like that would just drive me nuts yeah because you know you do back squats and all of that stuff so you you you it's a it's a it's a thing with you you like you want see there's a thing you want to be wanted some people just want to some people just want company like you like for you you're a competitive guy and you're a you know i'm saying you you want you watch yellowstone so you want to be like you look at john dutton and you go yeah that's the fucking guy you know john dutton

wouldn't do that okay nailed it i mean i don't do i don't do back squats for the ass however you want to frame it right or mine but yeah you you you want but this guy is saying hey i'm at a point but that doesn't really bother me i'll tell you this the longer he waits the more he ensures that it's a lifestyle see if he's in his late 30s now or whatever, he could go on like a four or five year run of this and then meet somebody. If you start, if he gets this itch at 55, 60, now he's kind of really out of the game. Or even at 50, he's really out of the game. And now, I mean, you know, for the rest of his fucking life, it's kind of the deal. So go ahead and get it out of your system.

Who knows? You might get a pretty woman situation or you might give your bank card to the wrong person, end up destitute on Craigslist trying to buy a mattress that people already slept in. But that's life's an adventure, baby. Right. Who knows?

Good luck though. Yeah. There's a world. There's worlds of stuff out there where you're like when somebody will explain it to me like one girl was telling me she's like yeah i have a friend that makes like this much just by selling pictures of her feet and i went are you out of your mind and it like when you're not in that and you just hear this passing story like the people that maybe listen

i don't know how much the audience is is super educated in this world but when the non-educated hear about it oh it blows your fucking mind nuts one time i was asked like yeah man look you know what what does she do because she doesn't i ain't never seen her work like did she go to her office or something like that like what is what is this like what your homegirl like what is she into what does she do what's what's her job because you're saying that you know she's gonna meet you at like you're off work today what does she do she goes man i'll tell you what she does and i'm like what she does these niggas i'm like huh and she's like i'm like what and so that's what she does and I'm with it like have your freedom like have do your thing

you know what I'm saying I have no problem with it as long as everybody is safe and happy fucking have at it man bro if you can hear my voice dog let her rip bro have some fun man

why not there you go that's life advice with van lathan kicked it up a notch here emerald style uh you don't hear that a lot not many emerald references lately pop culture uh thank you van what uh what do you have give us the schedule to promote everything that's coming out because i know you just taped something this morning bro i don't know man like i'm doing a lot of podcasts i'm everywhere go go check them out me and charles holmes prestige tv pod uh ringer verse stuff is kicking up secret invasion house of midnight higher learning all kinds of stuff are happening over here at the ringer podcast network but it's

always a pleasure to jump on with Martin Riggs. Merton Riggs, the weapon of the ringer. It's always fun. Thanks, buddy. Peace. All right. I hope everybody enjoyed Van, the Ryan Rosillo podcast. Please subscribe. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Steve. Thank you. you