The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Andrew Bogut on the Birth of the Warriors, NBA Contenders, and Fights With the Clippers. Plus ,‘Mad Max: Fury Road’ Author Kyle Buchanan.

Episode Date: March 31, 2022

Russillo is joined by NBA champion Andrew Bogut to discuss joining the Warriors in 2012, the 2015 title run, stories from the Clippers-Warriors rivalry, playoff predictions, and more (0:37). Then Ryen talks with Kyle Buchanan of The New York Times about his book, ‘Blood, Sweat & Chrome: The Wild and True Story of Mad Max: Fury Road’ (39:18). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:26:08). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Andrew Bogut and Kyle Buchanan Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's podcast andrew bogut world champ australian legend he's going to tell some stories about his time in the nba and also on some of the current headlines kyle buchanan is the author of mad max Fury Road, the book in oral history. This movie is one of the all timers and the book is incredible. So that's gonna be a lot of fun and an extended life advice where we're real honest about something going on with me. He is a longtime NBA vet, a world champ, Olympic athlete, and the host of a podcast now too as well. Andrew Bogut, Rogue Bogues. I was checking it out the last week, getting ready for this.

So I know that you had said in one Q&A that you could tell exactly where a media member's head was at based on the first question for clickbait. So just who did you hate the most that was a teammate? We'll start there and see if we get some headlines. Who did I hate most? I'm just fucking with you. As soon as I listened to the whole breakdown, I was oh yeah um let's let's start actually somewhere else uh you know you've been you've been out of the nba for a few years international stuff you know you just announced

your retirement not that long ago but i mean you know what is it 2019 you won mvp what's it been like what's it been like to finally kind of turn turn the page on this part of your life playing basketball yeah it's been an adjustment i think everyone goes through the same thing it's um you know where um regimented people um athletes uh were basically told what to do from the moment we will wake up to the time you go to bed um as far as eating at this time and getting your coffee at this time and then you've got physio and then you've got training. You're in the car at this time and then game days are different again. Planes, trains, automobiles, all that fun stuff.

So you go from that to retirement and waking up and staring at the ceiling. You know what I mean? Like you've got nothing regimented. And it's nice for a couple of weeks. And then you're like, oh, I think I need to start doing something again. So, yeah, it's been an adjustment, but it's also been good. I've got two young kids. One started school this year, so I was able to spend a whole lot more time at home.

Hadn't done that the previous couple of years because of basketball and that's been nice. And now just slowly readjusting to the previous couple of years because of basketball, and that's been nice. Now, just slowly readjusting to the business side of things and keep myself busy with a few projects. The international part of your resume really is incredible. Was it 2004, your first Olympic Games? Then it was still sort of on the fence. You might have played the most recent one.

I had things not been pushed back in Tokyo. Then to go back and play at home and be successful with Sydney. What do you think it is about where you're from and the commitment that you've made to them now for almost two decades? Yeah, I always enjoy playing for my national team. I unfortunately missed a fair few. I missed the Olympic Games in London, broke my ankle that year. So that was really disappointing.

And then obviously the coronavirus one, I was all in to get to 2020 and retire right after that. That was my kind of short, medium, and long-term plan for the last two or three years. That's why I came back to the NBL and I knew it wouldn't put as much miles on my body playing one or two games a week rather than the NBA schedule. And then it got pushed back and my body was hanging on the thread as it was, so that's why I retired.

I felt like I couldn't play another year pro to get to 21 but I always enjoyed it. The national team was always something special to me. We had a really good group of guys throughout. As a junior, I won a gold medal in the under-19s which kind of set the stage for myself and my career.

It's always just been something I've enjoyed doing. I feel like it's probably changed a little bit now, but national teams for the most part weren't about individuality. They weren't about getting your numbers up for a contract. Although there is some guys that do that that are free agents. You can kind of tell who they are straight away. But for the most part, it's guys that are like,

hey, we're buying in. I might be the man on my team, but with the national team, I need to do this because you can't have, you know, when you think about it, a national team has generally 12 players that are very good players on their club teams, whether it be in Australia, Europe, or the NBA, where they play a different role. And you can't have 12 guys playing that same role within a team.

So that's always the interesting chess piece with national teams. And we usually have a pretty good buy-in with the Australian national team with that. I know because I watched most of your career. You have the Milwaukee run, you start putting up numbers, your number one pick, you get hurt,

and then you end up in Golden State and it's immediate that the numbers are just not going to be the same. Was it tough for you? I mean, you talk about being a teammate in the national stage, but I mean, you're still fairly young and now it's immediate that the numbers are just not going to be the same um how was was it tough for you I mean you talk about being a teammate in the national stage but I mean you're still fairly young and now it's like hey you're going to be getting like a couple looks a game and beating the shit out of people on screens for a couple minutes yeah look um it was a bit of an adjustment I went from being working to being the number one number two option in Milwaukee

um and playing really well had a few injuries and all that kind of stuff and then getting to Golden State. Yeah, thankfully, Scott Skiles was really instrumental in my career as teaching me how to man the court defensively and really run the game defensively like a quarterback. And so when I got to Golden State, that was what was lacking there. There was no big that was physical, could rebound, could set screens, block shots, take the rim.

So I kind of figured out pretty early on there that I've got Steph and Clay next to me. I'd be an idiot to be, hey, coach, like, where's my touches? Like, you know, when you've got those two guys, I just really focused on setting good screens, protecting the basket, making sure that the opposing team didn't get anything easy. And it was a bit of an adjustment because I was used to getting 10, 15, 20 touches on the block and get a night in Milwaukee to two in Golden State.

But I learned to grow with that and we were winning. So if we weren't winning, we probably would have voiced up a little bit more. The fact that we were starting to build something nice, I was like, I'm happy to play this niche. I'm happy to play that role and be a physical big man and do what it takes to help the team win. And we were winning. So it was great.

Yeah, I really, and I'm not saying this just because you're on, but I mean, I watched those games religiously because I just enjoyed the birth of this version of basketball with Golden golden state but i think it's one of the most selfless things that i'd seen from a player it wasn't like you were 15 years in and you anchored you know that was what i was that was funny about those warriors teams because the guys were sort of soft-spoken they shot a ton of threes and then people would be like yeah but are they tough enough and it's like they're actually number one defensively in like a ton of different metrics and i always felt like you anchored that because you just understood positioning you would And then people would be like, yeah, but are they tough enough? And it's like, they're actually number one defensively in like a ton of different metrics.

And I always felt like you anchored that because you just understood positioning. You would show, you know, and that's just a lot of effort without a lot of reward to constantly be anchoring a defense. And granted, you guys switched a lot of stuff there too. But I don't know that a lot of people would have done that at that stage of their career. I don't. So it's not really a question. It's just sort of an observation. Yeah. And we're getting a lot of credit for it at times, but true people

know the value that I had, the value that even Draymond Green is starting to be more noticed now, even though his stats don't jump off the page. Guys like that have, when you look at the analytics, especially defensively, I knew that with me on the floor in the paint, I knew teams

were shooting a poor rate at the rim. If I wasn't blocking the shot, I knew, you know, teams were shooting, you know, a poor rate at the rim. If I wasn't blocking the shot, I was altering it. I was taking charges. So I tried to do that the best I could. And then, yeah, I spoke about it on my podcast a couple of weeks ago. Like the one thing that was crazy about that run was the shit that I used to get away with, screening. It was, man, it was all time.

Like I knew, you know, in Milwaukee, if I said, I'd be found out in the first quarter, right? Then I'm playing in Golden State. Golden State started to become that underdog America's type team that was building up. And I knew once Steph or Clay got hot, that the refs would be in the moment as well. And I could literally clothesline someone off the next pin down or whatever

because I knew Clay's hit three in a row. The crowd's on their feet. He's going to hit the fourth. And I would just punch someone in the face on the screen, knock them out, and they wouldn't call it. And he'd hit the fourth three. And even the refs would be like, wow. It was crazy.

I always talk about that. And then I get traded to Dallas and then set those same screens out three times in the first quarter. But yeah, it was crazy. I always talk about that. And then I get, you know, I get traded to Dallas and then set those same screens out three times in the first quarter. It's just like, but yeah, it was crazy. The stuff I used to get away with it. I remember guys coming off those pin downs and then, you know, I might lose them and then I'd look back to where you were and the guy was on the ground. He'd just be on the ground.

Like he never even made it. He never made it past it. What, I'm sure you asked about this all the time and everybody that knows me knows how much i love watching the warriors and i argue for uh the warrior stars and against others in the past but i just like hearing from people that know them and played with them personality wise i think we get a sense of just how how funny and sometimes i don't even mean aloof in a negative way with clay but what was your experience with clay the teammate and also the person i love

clay um he he's just so nonchalant for an nba superstar like you you have to tell him that he's an nba superstar he just he just goes about his business um really really good human being i'm quirky he's aloof at times um but yeah i really grow to grew into enjoying being around him early on he didn't really say a whole lot when I first got there he was growing into who he was and even not just a basketball player as a person but the smallest

things making him happy and you love to see that he's a very rare breed of NBA superstar give him his dog, the beach go for a mountain bike you know just sitting there talking playing some poker he's happy read of an NBA superstar. Give him his dog, the beach, go for a mountain bike, just sitting there talking, playing some poker. He's happy. It's very, very rare. I really enjoyed my time with Clay and still keep in touch

with him to this day. I always felt with Steph that despite the numbers and absurdity, and I always mentioned the gravity when he's out there and how much it just freaks everybody out, so it's not always obvious where if Durant is making a great play or LeBron's just going through the lane, that Steph's impact isn't always as obvious despite the shooting numbers. Did he get the sense of what he was going to become? Because you were there really at the beginning.

I always thought that Denver series win and then the San Antonio win that could have gone have gone your way that was your first year there but it was now like the first phase of what we saw over those years yeah i mean not probably not to this extent like the dominance that he's had for so long i mean um when i first got there he had injury issues so he had he had that ankle just wouldn't get better and kept tweaking it. And there was questions about whether he'd even play 10 years in the league, which is, you know, he smashed that out of the park now. We can look back, we're like, wow, it was not really even an issue, which is something that he had to work through.

But we saw flashes of what he could do at practice, obviously, and at games. Consistency was a bit of a problem for him early on because of the injuries, I think. He was in and out of the lineup. Before I got there, he was with the ball-dominant guy, Monta Ellis. So he'd have a 35-point night and then the next two nights wouldn't touch it as much because Monta got hot or whatever it was, right? So I think once they moved Monta, the keys were really his

and I think that gave him some confidence. And then the rest was history. They let him play. I mean, and as a coach of Steph, early on, I think that gave him some confidence and then the rest was history. They let him play. I mean, and as a coach of Steph, early on I think Mark Jackson did a good job of letting him roll at times and taking what would be perceived a bad

shot for anybody else. He let Steph take and then that built his confidence. Like, you know, back 10 years ago, if someone pulled up for where Steph's pulling up today, you get benched with most coaches, right? Especially if you miss one. Whereas Mark let him roll with that and got the confidence up. And then obviously Steve came in and gave him a whole other dimension

of challenging him not to turn the ball over and not to be so loose in the ball. And, you know, Steph just continued to grow. And, you know, he is one of those guys that he has it, you know, whether he picks up a dart and throws it at Darbo for the first time, like he's almost bullseyeing. He's just one of those guys that has it, whether he picks up a dart and throws it at Darbo for the first time, he's almost bullseyeing. He's just one of those guys that has it. And then you factor that in with his work ethic and you get Steph Curry.

But that's a very rare breed to have a guy like that. There's people out there that can work day and night and not have that level of shooting and prowess and skill that he has. But he's just amazing watching him on a daily basis. It makes you feel bad about your basketball abilities when you're around him if that makes sense just you know maybe just a bad shooting day for him is still 30 40 better at practice than anyone else on the floor you mentioned mark jackson i know that you know in a way there's a toughness part of it uh the freedom for steph but I remember when I first heard the

rumblings of like yeah there might be a better fit somewhere else I know in the past you know I don't want to get the quotes wrong but I think there were times you sounded at least publicly like you weren't always in love with maybe what he was saying after the fact what's the fairest way to assess the end of the Mark Jackson run as you guys transitioned into a different you know obviously it ended up being Kerr but I don't know if you look back at it differently now or in the moment, how it felt. Yeah, I think he was an integral part of the journey. I don't doubt that whatsoever. You know, he was around the Warriors where the Warriors were a dumpster fire of an organization.

Couldn't win games, couldn't get any, you know, longevity with rosters. It was always 10, 10 always 10 new guys every season. Who are we building around? Who's our guide? It was always like that. So he was good as far as bringing guys in, building a little bit of a culture there. But to be honest with you, I think he took us as far as we could go.

And there were people within the locker room, coaches that thought we had a championship roster. And I don't think he believed that at that time. Well, other people did. But he took us as far as we could go. You know, his style was a bit more old school. So he was more, I mean, Darren Ehrman ran our defense at the time and Mike Malone.

They were really, really good with that defense. Mark's offense was more old school New York Knick. If you score, you'll get the next touch. And we're going to keep going to you until that dries out and then, oh, we're going to go to the next guy. That was kind of the mentality and the problem with that was it really, you know, certain guys struggled. Harrison Barnes was one that struggled a little bit in that system because he's stuck in the corner and let's say Steph's hot and everything's going through him for three quarters.

He gets to the fourth quarter and any NBA team with half a brain is going to eventually decide to get the ball out of Steph's hands and then it's swing, swing, swing to Harrison Barnes, wide open in the corner and a must-hit three because the other team's making a run. That's the type of shot to hit in basketball because he hasn't felt like he's been in the flow for three quarters. And that was the issue with Mark's offense.

I thought it was very, very isolation-based. So when Steve came in, he was big on getting it through hands, even if it was just for the point of getting it through hands, just to get it through hands. And they used to chart passes per possession. It was something ridiculous. I think it was four or more passes per possession was 60-plus percent for most games

and then the lower that went it generally like we went two passes it was like 40s um and guys really started to buy into that so steve's whole thing that came in was i'm not throwing the baby out of the bath what i'm not changing everything you guys have done you guys have been real successful a few small tweaks i want to move the ball more and when i when we move the ball i want to turn it over because you guys you guys were with turnovers. Turn the ball over way too much. So we can get our turnovers down by four or five a game and have more passes per possession. That's all I'm asking from you guys. And it was genius. It just completely changed the way we played. The funny thing is, anytime a team wins, I'll look at the different stuff. And I would say

you never quite fixed the turnover thing, but it didn't matter. It was like the one thing that you would have statistically where you'd go, all right, well, that's a bad number. It's like, yeah, but all the other numbers are insane. So it doesn't matter. When you think about 16, this is going to sound like somebody who doesn't understand. I doubt that you drive around and have moments where you go i can't believe we blew that lead but does it ever happen does it ever happen like and again to remind the audience you didn't play you were struggling to even stay on the floor you were like 10 to 15 minutes you don't play in six or seven an argument could be made if you get 10 minutes in game seven it swings because i think festus had some issues on a couple drives but I mean not like I'm expecting the rest of

your life to be haunted by it which would be kind of the outside but when it does happen what is that like when you think about that finals? Yeah it sucks I mean should have been back to back and you know yeah it was just tough I didn't have a great final series

the year before we went really small with you know the. I didn't have a great final series the year before. We went really small with, you know, the death lineup. Didn't play a lot after game three in the year we won it. So my whole thing coming into the finals was like, don't give the coaches an opportunity to sit me. And I played really well the first three games. Fourth game I didn't play as well, but the first three out of four games played really well and mainly,

mainly commanding the paint. You know, there was a game one or two, I blocked LeBron two or three times in the paint, got Kevin Love, contested a bunch of shots to the point where I knew, you know, LeBron was coming off picking roles and looking for where I was.

Right. So that, that's half the battle won for me. Cause if you can get him to hesitate one second going downhill, it gives my guard, Andre, for instance, time to recover. So game five, I blocked Jaspers' shot, he barrels into my knee. I don't know what the hell he was doing, but did almost a somersault into my knee, full hyperextension, bone on bone. I couldn't walk, was out of action for five or six weeks.

And I felt like the paint opened up after that for LeBron. And you look at the tape and Kyrie, you look at how much pain attacks there were in game six and seven. Also, great one, suspension too. And that's the beauty and the beast of a seven-game series. The momentum shifts are immense. It can be smallest things that happen. Very much suspension,

my injury, a lot of people don't know, Andre Iguodala, he had chronic back spasms throughout that series, couldn't barely move, and we're telling him to go and guard LeBron James. There's those three things, and then they took momentum back, man, and you have to

give them credit, but yeah, it still hurts to this day. I think when you're up 3-1, and just the way we demolished them the first three games, or two games, sorry, at home. We beat them, but both games were like 20, 30 points. They weren't even close after halftime. And then I think we dropped game three, was it?

And then, yeah, I mean, game four, we win that, go home, feeling good about ourselves. They suspend Draymond, I get hurt. And then, you know, credit to them, they stole it. Was there ever, during that time, a conversation with Draymond? I mean, because at that point, the plays happened. It's a great argument that the momentum has shifted now. After that, I'm sure you guys were thrilled

when he was suspended. I've interviewed him about this in the past and he's kind of like i can just tell he's like what are you gonna fucking tell me to be different like good luck you know but as a teammate was there ever a moment where you could say to him hey we got to do this differently that's that's his strengths and his weakness right so draymond's strength is the passion that he brings and the fire and the energy and always towing the line of about to fight you about to get thrown out of a game by the ref about to get into it with Steve Kerr that's he's at his best when he's on that

line and unfortunately you know um he steps over that line sometimes and then there's there's ramifications and I think it was just the timing of it just wasn't great. It was in a final series and he knows that. But I think if you ask Draymond to turn that off completely, it takes away from who he is as a basketball player and as a person. So it's a tough one. I mean, obviously the hindsight's a beautiful thing. You say, Draymond, like, you know,

get ejected from every preseason game next season. Just keep it together for this one. But even the suspension was questionable. Did he really hit LeBron in the nuts? Most people, when they get stood over, they stand up aggressively the same way. So that's questionable as well. But I think just he had the body of negative work

throughout the season with technicals. So I think if that's a guy that only had one body of negative work throughout the season with technicals. So I think if that's a guy that only had one or two technicals in the season, I don't think they suspend him or give him an extra tee for it because he doesn't have form, right? But yeah, I mean, Draymond's not a guy that you got to sit down and have that conversation with and you got to tell him, hey, turn it down.

He's going to tell you on the spot where to go. So, yeah, you kind of, it's a tough one. You need to have that passion from him. But yeah, just the timing, the timing of it wasn't great. What do you think of this year's team? It's been interesting watching.

Obviously, the injuries aren't helping, but I think they're trying to find themselves as far as who's, you know, they found some pieces, Kaminga, and the wise and isn't things being interesting like the fact that he's not going to be back now i think that hurts them because i really think they still need they still need a five man in there for 15 to 20 um to you know rebound bang i mean you know you might you might face yogic you might face let's say you go to the finals you got him, you know, you might face Jokic. You might face, let's say, you go to the finals, you go to Embiid, you know, like, so there's some bigs in there that...

Yeah. Yeah, even Memphis without him. So, you know, there's some guys. I'm shocked they didn't pick up someone in the buyout market. Like, even DeAndre Jordan has an insurance policy. He ends up going to Philly, but I'm surprised they didn't pick up someone like that just as an insurance policy, a big banger.

But I think they'll be in there, but it's just a bad time of the season to have the injuries and the roster adjustments that they're having right now. If you have these in January or December, you can kind of get your form and adjust. But one thing I will say is they've got championship merit on that team, so you can never of get your form and adjust. But one thing I will say is that they've got championship merit on that team. So you can never really count them out. But

yes, I think it's going to be harder than what I thought early on in the season. I was really optimistic. And I thought once Wiseman's back, they pick up another big. Everyone's healthy. Clay's back. But yeah, it's not looking as good right now. They'll be in the mix, but championship might be a bit of a stretch.

Yeah, I was buying in pretty heavy there a few weeks ago when they'd had like four wins after that tough stretch. Four wins where I felt really good about them and then Sif gets hurt again. And I'm with you. I mean, even if Wiseman,

it's a lot to ask anybody who's barely played, hey, come in and be in a playoff rotation and make the right decisions all the time. But just having another body in that space, it's going to be a problem for him. There's still all these unknowns, and I don't think Klay looks all that comfortable right now. When you watch Phoenix, statistically,

we were talking about it on another pod with Bill on Sunday, being like, I almost feel like people haven't accepted the fact that this team has been almost end-to-end dominant and still won all these games without Chris Paul. We know exactly what the rotation is, adjustable. What do you think of them in comparison to the other contenders? I love them. I've got them.

I mean, it's not going out on a limb here, but I think they're primed to win it. I really think they are. They're a really tough team. They've taken their lumps last season. Chris Paul's done a phenomenal job, but the emergence of Devin Booker and what he's doing now,

they've got a legitimate scoring ISO threat that they can throw it through, especially in playoff games. You need that in playoff games. If you don't, you know, you can be the best team-orientated style of play in the world, but when it comes down to playoffs,

it's going to drag down at the end of quarters and, you know, three, four minutes left in the fourth where referees swallow their whistle. You need a guy who can just get a bucket off his own bat and they've got that in Devin Booker. And then all their role players are fantastic. They're just, Monty Williams has them playing with some grit,

some energy. They look like they're together. I've really enjoyed watching them and their emergence. And I think they're going to be, if healthy, the big thing for me was Chris Paul getting hurt now that he's back. If healthy, I think they're the championship favourites,

in my opinion. I just don't see anyone, you know, really seven games to beat them is going to be very, very hard, especially considering they have home court. So I'm excited to see how that goes. I would love to see Golden State-Phoenix, though, just because of the whole Steph Curry and Chris Paul battle. And I know the Warriors

love to get into it with Chris Paul. So I'm hoping to see that matchup. Did Chris Paul ever punch you in the nuts coming around the screen? No, no, no. I've got into it with him

plenty of times. I've got into it with him plenty of times. So, you know, he's a gritty, fiery guy. Very, very good basketball player, obviously. But I've definitely, definitely got into it with him plenty of times. So, you know, he's a gritty, fiery guy, very, very good basketball player, obviously, but I've definitely, definitely got into it with him. And we, you know, as a Warriors, we had a really, you know, really big rivalry with

him. And that was built because a lot of it was because of Steph, because remember the State Farm commercials where, you know, Steph was, was he Cliff, Cliff Paul? Was that his name? Yeah. Yeah. And he was a little brother of Chris Paul in those commercials for so long.

And Chris treated him like that as a person, in my opinion. Like he treated him as like, I'm your big brother, like even when we played him. And the Clippers used to own us, right? When I first got there, like there was something really weird with the Warriors when I got there. It was like everyone was just so intimidated of Blake and DeAndre and Chris Paul.

And then I was like, no, we're not doing this anymore. I remember, like, my first or second game against them, got a double T, got in a fight with DeAndre, and we were just like, no, we're not doing this no more. And then Steph started cooking Chris Paul every time we played him. The worm started to turn towards us winning. And then we went on to hardly ever lose to him. And then the relationship was definitely different then.

I think Steph just had enough of being that little brother. So there's that whole dynamic. So that's why I say I'd love to see a healthy Golden State and healthy Phoenix go into a battle. say I'd love to see a healthy Golden State and healthy Phoenix going to a battle. What's the maddest, though, anybody's ever gotten

against you in a game? Because I always felt like everybody hated that Clippers team. I felt like you guys were in line with five other Western Conference teams, but of course you had the playoff history and then you didn't play in that other series where at the very end, when they ended up winning in seven before the real start started. So give me the story that you tell

your buddies or they always ask you about. As far as Clippers? No, just anyone. Any player. Just coming off one of those screens, you crushing them and then being like, all right, I'm going to see you in the locker room. I've had that threat every other game. The NBA threat of, I'm going to see you after.

Yeah, okay, dude. Go for it, man. When the lights are on, it go for it, man. Like, cause I know it's just, it's all, when the lights are on, it's all bravado and all, it's all BS. Like,

you're not, you're not, I've only ever seen one guy try to wait for a guy outside of the locker room. It wasn't me. It was for a teammate of mine in Dallas. It was Trevor Ariza. And I, I tried to talk him off the ledge,

um, and told him like, dude, you're going to get, you're going to get a massive fine in suspension. It's not worth it, man. Like,

but, um, and nothing happened, like, dude, you're going to get a massive fine in suspension. It's not worth it, man. And nothing happened. But even what sold me on that was the Clipper series, that seven-game series with the infamous, you know, there was rumblings in the media about what happened post-game. So we're sitting in the locker room, another Chris Paul story, and that series was back and forth. The rivalry was building. And we're in the visitors' locker room at Staples.

There's a tunnel behind our locker room the infamous tunnel and you can walk through that tunnel to get to Clippers locker room but it's generally just for service

service people so like career managers carrying towels and blah blah blah players shouldn't really be using it anyway we're sitting

in a locker room lose game seven dead quiet we've all got our heads down Mark Jackson's like kind of you you know, searching for words. Like, I'm proud of you guys. Real soft-spoken. And we hear Chris Paul in the tunnel like,

it's awfully quiet in that locker room now, huh? It's awfully quiet. You guys are awfully quiet now, isn't it? And I'm thinking to myself, dude, you just beat us. Like, you just beat us. You knocked us out. Like, get on with it, man. You've got another series to focus about.

So he kept saying it, kept saying it. And then Steve Blake's sitting there, like, bawling his fists up in his chair. Like, you could just see him getting angry and steam coming out of his ears. And finally, he just gets up, goes to that back door. So then everyone's like, oh, shit. Everyone follows him in.

And I guess someone opens their door, which opens opens their training room says where's chris out getting getting back here and and then um i think b baby was the first one they're like get out of our locker room and then our whole team's in this little hallway their whole team comes from the other side and then chris is at the back of the pack like what happened what happened i don't know i didn't say anything and we're just like come on dude but that was the one moment where punches could have been thrown and shit could have got real and it didn't. There was no security.

There was no cameras. The closest it got was J.O. and Big Baby got in a little shouting match because they were teammates in Boston, I assume, or something like that, a little shouting match, and that was it. So my whole thing was like if there was ever an opportunity for everyone to be, I'm going to see you outside, I'm going to fight, that was it so my whole thing was like if there was ever opportunity for everyone to be i'm gonna see you outside i'm gonna fight that was it nothing happened so i always knew the nba that stuff was um crazy but one one funny thing i had was trevor ariza with the houston rockets we played him one year um i think we it's it's the year that i think was the conference finals

we played him the year we won it although it was the second round um we beat him and he came up to me after the series and i was laying him the hell out on screens like he was guarding clay off pin downs i kept rattling him but he's getting so mad at me one play he ran through me took the offensive foul back and forth and i just kept hitting i didn't care i was like i'm gonna come back again next position i'm gonna screen you the same way like you can do whatever you want you threaten me um and he came up to me after the same way. Like you can do whatever you want. You can threaten me. Um, and he came up to me after the series and goes,

man, like I'd love to play with a guy like you, dude. Like, um, I really love the way, you know, you get your teammates open,

you know, unselfish. And I thought that was really cool. Cause I was literally fucking him up a lot. Right. And he actually came up to me and was like, I love the way you play, man.

I'd love to be a teammate. So that was pretty cool. Yeah, it was the second round in 15. Yeah. When you watch now, and kind of the build-up to this is, I think we both know there are guys that score 20.

It might not mean a ton. When you watch, what's the thing that stands out to you? Beyond just one loss record where you're like, this guy's impacting the game in positive ways in scoring versus somebody who you just go, I get what the stats are, but it's not really having that lasting impact. I'm sure you process through all of this as you're watching.

Yeah, I look at, I mean, Josh Giddey put out a tweet a couple of days ago, which was really good. Something along the lines of an MVP is making his teammates better than they are. And that's what I look for. That's why I love Jokic. I think he's the MVP again. I don't know if you'll get it with the whole popularity contest thing.

But for what he's done with that roster, they're missing two max guys. They're missing two max guys on their roster and they're still in the hunt for a good playoff seat, decent, consistent playoff berth. I think it's how much better you make your teammates. That was Steph Curry, right? The years he won

it was we all were better because of him and the team was rolling. I look at guys on their roster that I look at their 7, 8, 9, 10 guys. That guy's having a great year. That guy's having a great year. That guy's having a great year. And you're like, well, were they that bad on other teams

or is it their star players, you know, like a Jokic, for instance, that's finding them and giving them confidence and telling them, I think that's what I look for. I'm not a fan of guys that just chase stats. And it's blatant. Most of us know who those guys are in the league. I've played with what I look for. I'm not a fan of guys that just chase stats. Most of us know who those guys are in the league. I've played with some of them before and they'll get their 20 or 30 and someone picks up the history books and says,

oh, they averaged 30 a game. But you look at how they did it and the way they got it, I was never a fan of. But yeah, that's kind of what I look at, how you make your teammates play with your level of play, to me, is the true brother of an MVP. How do you feel about the

East, then? I'm just kind of taking any direction you want to go. I think it's gotten better. The East has gotten better. Boston surprised me. I was real low on them, like most people were. I just thought, we've seen the same old story before. Is it Tatum's team? Is it Brown's team?

What's going on? The argy-bargy? Are they good enough? This, that? And they've really surprised me. They're taking a big step forward. I'm interested to see how they go with the injury to Williams. Chicago, I kind of wasn't sold on in the preseason. I thought it was

like a puzzle with weird pieces that you're trying to jam together. They surprised me coming out of the gates. I thought they had a really good start, but now they've kind of fallen to where I expected them to be. They've had a horrible, probably, what, six weeks. But Cleveland's done really well. I'm really high on Cleveland for the next couple of years. I think

most people are. I think they've got a really good young core. I like the fact that they've gone big. I love it. I just love coaches that try stuff that you're not supposed to try. In this day and age, you're definitely not supposed to play

two big men, let alone three. They at times play three seven-footers, which is sensational. So I love watching that and just seeing that chess battle of like, all right, you guys want to go uber small? We'll go uber big and just see what happens. And it's worked for them this season, I think, for the most part. So, yeah, I think the East is – I think it's solid. I think this is one of the closest years, I believe, statistically,

West versus East, East versus West, record-wise, I believe. Yeah, it's very close. I mean, the other day, it was only separated by a few games in favor of the West. Yeah, you don't see that very often. So, I think it's even now. We're not where we were when I first came to the league, where the East was kind of more dominant

and the West was more kind of high-scoring, not so much emphasis on defense. And now it's gone the other way, where the West was dominant. I kind of high scoring, you know, not so much emphasis on defense. And now it's gone the other way where the West was dominant. I think it's starting to balance out a little bit. All right. A couple more things before we let you bounce. I know you talked about Ben Simmons. I know that there's also a part of this story in fairness to Simmons that I

don't think it's ever talked about because that it's people are a little uncomfortable about the family part of it. And he's just, he's had a lot of stuff the last year or so, but then he pulled out of the Australian team last year. And you had commented on that. And I thought you were fair, but I also thought you were fairly revealing and essentially saying that it doesn't seem like he gets it yet. That's not your quote, so I don you think I'm wrong on any of this, there's just a gap between where he needs to be in commitment

to what he's actually bringing to a team. Is that fair? Yeah, with the national team especially. The national team, like I said, you might be asked to play a role, even if you are Ben Simmons. We might not need you to play point forward for 40 minutes and that's the hardest part. But my point with the national team was people would always ask me,

oh, you know, what are you going to miss without Ben Simmons playing? I said, I don't know because he's never played. So it's kind of – it's like missing that girl that you've never dated. So that was always my point with that. So, you know, we'd obviously love him to be part of the national team one of the best players in the world um probably the best current Australian playing in the NBA and we'd love to have him part of that but it was just never for the right reasons in my opinion it was always you know I'll do this post that I'm going to play for marketing reasons

or you know I'm going to Australia to do some clinics so let me promote that I might play for the national team was always a bit of a thing I just never eventuated so you know, I'm going to Australia to do some clinics. Let me promote that I might play for the national team. We're always a bit of a team. We're just never eventuated. So, you know, eventually you get to a point where you're like, you know, you hear the third or fourth campaign that, oh, Ben's going to play this campaign. I'm just kind of like, I was at the point where I believe it, where I see it. And that's not a knock on him.

It's just like Tully's actually in camp with us and going through everything we go through. I'm not see it. And that's not a knock on him. It's just like Tully's actually in camp with us and going through everything we go through. I'm not buying it. Don't talk to me about it because I've seen this story three or four times. And we went through a lot to try to, both in 19 and 20, to try to go out of our way while we're preparing for a major tournament, trying to piece together

how we can have him involved and how we can have him with the national team. And I know Paddy goes out of his way to try and really, we need to really help him come into this system and bring him in and be very inviting. But my whole point was he needs to want to do it too. We can't just, can't be all us. We love you, we love you, we love you. He needs to come to a point where he's like,

I want to be part of this. And I think once he does that, there'll be no issues. That's the thing with the national team. I think it'd do him wonders with everything that he was going through the last couple of years. I think being part of that national team where, yeah, you go one for 10 from the field or two for 12 from

the line, our national team would be like, who does this shit? You're still one of our best players. Let's keep going. That'd be that mentality. It wouldn't be we're bench one of our best players. Let's keep going. That mentality. It wouldn't be we're benching you or Joel Embiid trolling you or making subtle comments. Our national team would prop you up even in your darkest times. So I think it would have been

very valuable for him to play. We just couldn't get him to put a jersey on. Are you more surprised by Lomelo's impact or Giddy's impact? Both. Both.

Both. I mean, Lamello, he came into the NBL, and I thought he was a very good player, but his team was horrible. They didn't win games, and he was putting up big numbers. So that's always a red flag for me. Like, when your team's – what do they win, six games, five games? They went three and nine in his 12 games, I think. Yeah, and they finished horribly as well.

So when you look at that and a guy averaging 20, you're like, ah, it's kind of skewed a little bit because your team's not that good. And they were obviously playing him 30-plus just to put up numbers because it was good for their brand. By the way, he's a way better shooter in the NBA than he was in the NBL, which is crazy. I think it was like high 20s, and he wasn't shy either.

Yeah, and that was the thing but he's really surprised me and really I think the spacing in the NBA really helped his style of game and Giddy's just amazing. The one question I had for him was his three-point shot. Now, he's not shooting it at an awesome clip, but the one thing

is he's not shy. He's not afraid to shoot it and he's had games where he's gone three for four, four for five, whatever and he's had games where he's gone 0 for five, 0 for six but the thing with him is he's not shy. He's not afraid to shoot it. And he's had games where he's gone 3-4, 4-5, whatever. And he's had games where he's gone 0-5, 0-6. But the thing with him is he needs to shoot that ball because teams try to rondo him

a little bit where they're really daring him to shoot it. But he's just... I think he's starting to figure out that he's so big and quick enough to play that point guard spot

where he can play at his own pace. And he doesn't get sped up. You try to speed him up, he's strong enough to hold you off, and you can just see over the defense so well. So I've really enjoyed, you know, his progression. I think he's going to continue to get better. And I'm excited. I'm long on KC.

I think they're going to be the way they're building there with the group of guys they've got. They're going to have some cash space as well down the line. I think, you know, they're going to be much better sooner than people think. I've been a big fan as a player. Keep up the great work with the podcast, man. Can't wait to see what's next. Thanks for the time, Andrew.

Appreciate it. Thank you. I'd mentioned, I don't know, last week or so, I started reading Blood, Sweat, and Chrome, Oral History of Mad Max Fury Road, and it was incredible. I couldn't put it down. It was so much fun. Kyle Buchanan, also the New York Times, wrote the book, and we're going to hang out for a little bit. Okay. Congrats on a great book. It's one of those movies where those of us of a certain age,

you grow up on the Mad Max movies, and then I remember going to the theater and you're, you mentioned this and other people mentioned it too. You just feel like, did I just breathe for two plus hours? Like what just happened? Um, what motivated you to go? Okay. You know, I covered this stuff, but I'm doing a book on this as well. You know, sometimes you just watch a movie that you become obsessed with. And fury road was that for me. I remember the first time I saw Fury Road, it was a literally jaw-dropping experience. I think when I first saw that guitar shoot fire, yeah, my jaw literally just kind of almost fell out of my face.

And by the end of that movie, having seen those incredible visuals, those action sequences that are just so beyond and, you know, kind of detecting that there's even more to it than just, you know, this simple chasing that there's these interesting themes underneath. It made me kind of feel like

maybe I've been setting my bar too low. Like, you know, I like a good superhero movie or a good action movie, but you rarely get them when they're great. You know, like these days, Hollywood is so executive-driven rather than director-driven, and Fury Road is an extremely director-driven movie where you need a director who's going to battle with executives to say, No, I want this to be the wildest, craziest action movie possible. I want to do things

that you're not going to let me do because you don't let anybody do them. And the result is just completely indelible and crazy. So yeah, I've always loved it. But I'd always heard really wild, juicy stories about the making of this movie. And I think you don't even need to be as plugged in as I am as a journalist to know, like, you know, if you watch Mad Max Fury Road, you're thinking to yourself, how the fuck did they do that? You know, there's a great quote from the director Steven Soderbergh because he watches it all the time

to try to sort of like decode how Miller shoots his movies. And he said, Soderbergh said, I don't understand how they're not still shooting that movie. And I don't understand how hundreds of people aren't dead. You know, this is like the complete opposite of shoot it on a green screen in some Culver City studio kind of movie. So it just felt like the right kind of thing to write about because A, I'm curious how they did do it.

And B, I'm curious about all those crazy stories about it getting made. This is one of the wildest making of movie stories I've ever heard. It's a great place to start trying to understand George Miller. He's an Australian guy. He actually was a doctor, sort of. But then, you know, he'd made a film with his brother. So they create this first Mad Max. And people are kind of like,

what is this? And it's this cult success. It's violent. It's almost doomsday-ish, obviously, in the future and some version of the Australian world where everything's a mess. But everything had kind of been building to this point. So help us better understand Miller, who it appears has so many different elements to his personality and his creative vision that if you think you kind of know him, then he kind of surprises you with some other element of him where it seems to be the opposite of the man that creates these worlds. Yeah. I remember a couple of weeks ago on the pod, you were talking to the guy who created Winning Time, the Laker show on HBO. And he had originally written what, like Ice Age movies? Yeah.

You know, which is exactly the sort of thing that you get typecast for in Hollywood. And Miller has this career that has somehow, you know, just avoided typecasting that he can't have started making, you know, these incredibly violent Mad Max movies. But then for a large portion of his career, he became known as the guy who did, you know, Babe and Happy Feet, two Happy Feet movies. And I think the thing is, you would expect him to be more like the Mad Max guy. And he really is more like the guy that makes those family movies. If you talk to him, he's this very kindly, not so tall, not so physically intimidating, grandfatherly dude. And I think because of that, when he tries to make a really big studio film, like these Mad Max movies, but also ones that have fallen apart in the past, like Justice League, you know, executives think, oh, we can run roughshod over this guy. We can like make him bend to our will. And you can't.

He has this very secret spine of steel where he just absolutely will not give up. And that's what I wanted to get into writing this book because I'm just curious. If you're trying to make a movie for about 20 years, which is about how long it took him to make Fury Road, and it gets shut down a million times. They were supposed to film this in 2003 with Mel Gibson starring. It fell apart shut down a million times. They were supposed to film this in 2003 with Mel Gibson starring. It fell apart truly at the last minute. All the vehicles had been built. They all had to be scrapped, melted down. Everybody slinks away like, okay, well, we got so close to making that and it didn't happen. We better figure out something else to do.

How do you still have the faith to be like, no, you know what? I can make this again. And keep that torch alive for the next decade when everybody's telling you, no, you can't. No, we don't want it. No, there's no appetite for this. And then once you get on set, people still don't believe that you can do it, including your stars. To have that spine to say, no, no, no. Even though probably everything is stacked against me and these really important people have no faith in me, I know that this can be a masterpiece. How do you do that? I've written the book and it still kind of boggles my mind because I think any reasonable person would give up. You're almost reading the book even though you've seen the movie and you love it and you're like, wait, does it work out?

I mean, that's yeah unbelievable the story like because you even point out like the fury road seed first starts kind of getting watered in the late 90s they start storyboarding this stuff then they're on then the 9-11 attacks happen right and fill in anything i have that's off here then 2003 it's supposed to happen with gibson it doesn't then oh five then oh seven and then you point out that there was never even a script and they essentially off here. Then 2003, it's supposed to happen with Gibson. It doesn't. Then 05, then 07. And then you point out that there was never even a script and that they essentially just did storyboards that dominated this entire office. So for our listeners to understand, George Miller's working on Happy Feet while they're secretly working on these storyboards for Fury Road.

And it appears, and correct anything here, it's just a run of pictures just everywhere from like start to finish of this is how we see this because ultimately this isn't a script-driven movie anyway. But we're talking from when it actually gets cast, 2010, 2011, you start filming a span of almost 15 years of just an idea that's just constantly kicked down the entire time. Yeah, George Miller had this conference room where the whole movie was written in storyboards. So he can take you through it practically shot by shot. And that's kind of what people had to do if they were interested in making the movie, they would fly to Australia and he would kind of like conductor style,

walk them through the entire thing, you know, from left to right on these walls in this conference room. And it's really fascinating to go back and look at those storyboard screenplays because, you know, some of those sequences that are so incredible really were like planned out shot by shot for like 15 years. And they're practically the same as what you see on the screen. But for a lot of people who aren't used to that kind of thing, they would come down, be walked through this by George, and be kind of stumped, including the cinematographer, John Seal,

including the stars, Charlize Theron, Tom Hardy. And when they're on set, they're not shooting traditional scenes where you have this three-minute chunk of dialogue and you can kind of get it up on your feet and shoot it from all these different angles. George was like, no, I just need to get this specific shot, which might last a millisecond. And it might just be Charlize turning her head and putting her hand on the steering wheel. And you can do that. She did it. And it's a testament to Charlize that like that whole performance hangs together. But that's not easy, fun, or that's not easy or fun to film. And it's also the sort of thing that makes the actors say, does this guy know what he's doing? Because I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how what I just shot that millisecond shot fits together into anything,

or if this is going to make any sense. You know, he had this incredible vision in his head. I think the struggle for him is not everybody can understand that vision. And it's hard for him to fully convey what's in his head until he's literally finished the film and you're looking at it. Yeah, I mean, that that part we'll get to some of the editing a little bit later um but 400 hours of film at some point in these shots where the actors have no idea it appears doug his is kind of like is it doug mitchell i don't know mitchell's producer yeah yeah he would seem to be like the only guy in the book that that always understood kind of what george was doing and no one else did so let's let's get to that because that was kind of the

headlining stuff um let's back up a bit so mel's out of the picture, right? And is it, is it a combination of Mel's own problems or the fact that Mel's even admitting as he's talking with George, I'm just going to be too old. And maybe at one point Mel was in, but then as the years passed, it just wasn't reality, right? Yeah. So originally Fury Road was sort of conceived to be the last Mel Gibson movie. And the idea was that, you know, this is a really, this is an older, grittier, you know, wild Mad Max who's been in the wasteland since we saw him in the third movie. And coincidentally, since the third movie, Mel Gibson has become a gigantic star. So it's, it was already kind of a thing of like, I wonder if he's going to want to come back

and do this franchise when he's kind of grown past it. But they thought that they could kind of give him like a career capper with it. And, you know, the movie would end with him kind of reintegrating into society, like finding these women to fight for and going up to the green place with Furiosa, who at that point was going to be maybe Uma Thurman, maybe Monica Bellucci. And Mel kind of tentatively came on board. I don't think he was ever fully psyched about it. He was a little trepidatious too,

but they were paying him 25 million. Fox was at the time, which was, you know, that's a huge amount of money now, but it was really a huge amount of money back in 2003, so much so that Fox got cold feet about how much money they were spending and shut the thing down. And in the time since, I think they thought it would have probably been hard to convince Mel to do it again after he had this, you know, kind of visible career setback of the movie not going. But then also, you know,

he continued to shoot himself in his own foot publicly for the years to come. So it freed them up in a way to kind of reimagine the movie as not, you know, something that's meant to finish out Mel Gibson's time,

but to start kind of a new take on the franchise and to really cast a super wide net to think who could possibly be Mad Max now and look at people like not just Tom Hardy, but Eminem, Jeremy Renner, some of the most random ass guys you can possibly imagine. What was the fascination with Eminem? Because that was Miller, right? Yeah. George Miller saw eight mile. Um, you know, one of them was like very few acting credits because he doesn't necessarily want to

be a big movie star. Um, he keeps getting offered big movies and turning them down because they won't film in Michigan. You know, he's like, I'll do it if you come where I live. Uh, and that's exactly what he said to George Miller. He said, I'll play Mad Max if you shoot it in Detroit. And that would have been a very different Mad Max movie. So that was like a no-go situation. But it is really tempting to think about, okay, how different a movie would this have been if it was Eminem? I think George is really intrigued by people that are kind of off the beaten path. I mean, he was looking at Rihanna at one point.

He, you know, when they were trying to cast this because they cast it over about a year and a half, which is a really long process. They looked at everybody. They looked at people like Jennifer Lawrence and Margot Robbie for the watch. So they were seeing all these, you know, soon to be superstars and just trying to figure out, OK, who's right for this. So Hardy gets it. Does he get it because of the Army Hammer tryout? Because George also this is a very different casting. I mean, almost everything about this experience seems to be different because everybody's telling you the book like, yeah, I've never done anything like this. There appears to be kind of this one face off between Hammer and Hardy where that's pretty much it.

That's the best way to describe it. Yeah, they were among the finalists for the role. And the story that I was told is that in their final sort of audition against each other, Tom spit in Armie Hammer's face. And after that audition was over, Armie said to George, listen, this guy wants it more than I do. It should be him. And Armie at that point had a history with George Miller. He was going to play Batman for him in the Justice League movie that

never ended up happening. So I think he was really, George Miller was really intrigued by kind of like Tom Hardy's danger. You know, Mel Gibson has that Mel Gibson is a much crazier person than his movie roles would suggest. Like, if you just get him in a room, he's like a twitchy, kind of hard to pin down guy. And Tom Hardy is that too. Like I've interviewed Tom a bunch. And he is the sort of person where you can just try to have a normal conversation with him about whatever movie he's in. And he'll just start asking you random questions like, Hey mate, how much Mandarin do you speak? And you'll be like, none, Mr. Tom Hardy. Why? He's like, because the Chinese man, the Chinese have taken over the whole world. And you're just trying to steer this conversation back on track.

Like he is a total live wire as a star. And, you know, I think George was really intrigued by that idea. He wanted to find something that had somebody that had that Mel Gibson energy. But you take on some things when you find a guy like that, when you find a guy like Tom Hardy. Tom Hardy is not the easiest person to work with. And you just have to make the decision of,

of is it all going to be worth it? Okay. So that leads us to kind of what then the headline of the book, you know, the excerpts, which is good for you, probably good for book sales, but that he and Charlize Theron just went at it.

And the book definitely paints it as if hardy's the one that's a pain in the ass but i think you're also at times fair to hardy because as you mentioned before he just didn't understand it he's challenging george miller on everything so what stories about that relationship and that dynamic not only between the two stars but hardy and george miller because you're out in the af desert, which you also point out, like, this is brutal, brutal conditions beyond anything most of these people ever experienced in their life. And it feels like you had heard whispers about it. Obviously, you way more than any of us, because this is your beat and what you're plugged into.

But what can you share with us on that topic? Well, they kind of talked around it for a couple years. But if I was going to write this book, it just is a thing where you have to, you know, dive in and you have to ask the hard questions. And, you know, I think it's to Charlize's credit because she knew it would set off a whole other round of headlines if she talked about this in a way that she never had.

And it has. But she, she's a really sort of rare creature for an A-list movie star where she wants you to ask her difficult things. She kind of is turned on by that and would rather have that than small talk. So even though she knows this is not going to be an easy topic to talk about, she is excited by the idea of, you know, going there. And she does. I mean, you know, it was an interesting thing to talk to not just her and Tom, but everybody else who worked on that set who had their own opinions about it, you know, just to find out like, why was it so contentious between those two? And in large part, that's because, you know,

these are two people who have very different approaches to acting. Like they're both great actors and they both really pop on screen. But Charlize is the type who will do all of her homework. She'll show up at 8am. She will cry from the left eye if that's what she's supposed to do. And she'll do it in every single take, you know? And then when the shooting day is over, she goes straight home. She had just adopted a kid.

So she wanted to go be a mother. She wanted to hit all her beats and do it. Tom Hardy does not show up on time. If it's a morning shoot, forget it. He won't be there. He shows up when he wants to show up. And when he gets there, he has this acting approach

that he kind of calls failing towards the truth, where he will do the wildest shit in every take, like real fall flat on your face shit in an attempt to get to something that feels right. So he'll do the wrong thing until he gets to the right place. And I think if you've been waiting for this guy to show up for hours, and then he comes and he's like, you know, for this guy to show up for hours. And then he comes and he's like, you know, practically doing like a Looney Tunes take.

You're like, are you fucking serious? Can you just do like what we're supposed to be doing so we can move on? You know, for the viewer, all we're seeing is, you know, the takes they select, which I think Tom Hardy's really good in this movie. He has this, again, like kind of crazy, live wire, weird, wiggly energy.

But to, you know, put up with that on set, not everybody wants to do that. And so it was just immediately like a personality clash between those two. And like you said, Ryan, like this is not an easy movie to make. They didn't know if they were making a huge bomb. So they're going to take that anxiety out on each other. And it just, you know, came to a head one day when Charlie showed up at 8am, sat in that war rig and full makeup, full hair, makeup, and well, lack of hair, full makeup and costume. And he didn't come for hours and hours. And she refused to leave because she wanted to make that point that point that he should be here and I'm here.

And when he did get there, they had a huge argument that kind of sent the whole thing spinning out of control. Yeah, and it never really seemed to be resolved until after the fact, which again, I'll get to. Let's go to this place, Namibia, where I was researching it a bit after I read the book. where I was researching it a bit after I read the book, and you have all of these production people. I mean, it's a massive, massive production. I mean, how many people were actually feet on the ground there? Hundreds, and sometimes around a thousand. They have this whole tent city in the desert

in the middle of truly no place. The place in the Namibian desert where you could drive for miles with your eyes closed and not hit anything. And that gives that whole movie a feeling of reality that I think the viewer can detect. And that's important when you're watching a crazy fantasy

movie to have some sort of thing that grounds you in it. But the thing was for all the people who were making the movie, like, reality went away. You were in the world of that movie. Like, you know, especially when you had, you know, stuntmen who were playing the war boys,

like, living it. Like, cheering and going nuts like the war boys, like, 24-7. And you're in these crazy fucking cars that are literally actually driving through the desert. People are throwing spears, doing these crazy stunts. And you're just in the war rig the whole time, not getting out, being there. You essentially become, if not those characters, you become in the wasteland.

You can't help it. It bleeds into your life because that is your complete life. And so for a lot of the people that I talked to, people like Zoe Kravitz or Riley Keough, who played the wives, they're like, yeah, no, you basically just felt like you were literally in the wasteland for months and months and months. And characters in the movie only have to do it for a few days. To be in there for months, like to feel like you are kind of a hostage and everybody is going crazy

and Furiosa and Max fucking hate each other in the front seat, you know, you're living it. And that's hard for them. But for me as an author, it's great because to have the themes and ideas and the world of the movie bleeding into everybody's lives is such a really interesting topic. You know, it gives this whole movie and the whole making of story a kind of a way to get to know Fury Road even better because they didn't just make it, they lived it. So two things there.

The war boys part of this you know you've got stuntmen and then it was kind of funny like some of the younger guys that were going to be the actors like hanging out with these australians these south african guys that were all jacked up because they're professional stuntmen but then miller and i think in combination with some of the cast of people that they go through these exercises and this is intense and it's and it's beautiful too because it it starts to kind of lay the foundation of who the war boys are you know these obsessed guys and and you know the fact that toe cutter is the same person and more than joe um and they started doing these exercises which at first I think a lot of these guys are generally tough dudes would be

like, what are we doing? Like these theater exercises, like this is fucking stupid. I don't want to do this. And then they would start to like sing a lullaby or something or some sort of, you know, stupid fairy tale,

you know, whatever, whatever, like all of these things, you're like, wait, what's going on? And then the buy-in where the war boys start chanting the same word over and

over again, and these exercises and sweating and having this mosh pit and then the wives come by and they're not allowed to look at him. And then one of the wives, like actually none of this is on film, apparently that one of the wives starts to break down and cry because it's so emotional and so intense. That's a, I don't think friends did that before a season two show. What do you mean? You haven't heard the

swimmer stories? Come on. Yeah, no. It's one of those things where every element of this movie that could have been so thin or surface in any other action movie and probably would be, they really went aggro at it for Fury

Road. They had these acting workshops for you know these stuntmen who never acted really a day in their lives and were completely skeptical of it but by the end they had these like you know big sweaty crazy screaming orgies practically and it really bled into what they did on the set like they kept that energy so high and hyped and wild that I think you can feel it even as a viewer. Those performances of the war boys are so over the top and crazy in a way that you just don't get from action movies.

And it makes the whole movie feel like anything could happen because they're daring to sort of push beyond the boundaries of even what unacceptable performance looks like and you know george miller really insisted on doing that with all all the people in the movie you know no matter how small the role was i mean he had eve ensler who wrote the vagina monologues uh come and walk the actresses who played the wives through what it would be like to come and walk the actresses who played the wives through what it would be like to come and walk the actresses who played the wives to sort of discover what it would be like

if you were the victim of sex slavery, how that would feel, and have all these workshops with them. And the older actresses who played the Vuvolini, the older women warriors who joined near the end, they had their own workshops and got to, you know, customize their guns and their packs and their motorcycles. So he really wanted every

single person on this movie, every stuntman, every named star to sort of customize this role and feel it very deeply. And, you know, that's, again, it's one of those things that really starts to, you know, let the world of the movie bleed into uh the performance that you're giving but also the time that you spend on set because like if you're on that motorcycle and it's customized with like you know the crow's feathers that you asked for and you're out there in the sun all day and you are riding alongside uh these crazy cars i mean they might have cables that they CGI out later, but everything else is kind of happening for fucking real,

you know, to the point where, and this is one of my favorite stories from the book, you know, all those war boys were taught to worship Hugh Keys Byrne, who plays Immortan Joe, the big bad guy. When he would come by on set, they would call him daddy. They would call him daddy, they would call him king, they would sort of, you know, make these prayer gestures to him. And there was one day because he was an older guy, this was his last credit before he passed away. There was one day where he kind of like

took a stumble falling off a hill, you know, and it was not easy for him at his age in that bulky costume to get up. But all of the stuntmen who played war boys started chanting his name, chanting it, like giving him their energy, giving him their respect, turning this sort of like humiliating kind of, you know, injury this fall into something where, again, the world of the movie is bleeding in because they are giving him the power, instilling in him the power to get up and be their king again. It's just fascinating to me the way that people really plunged in. And I think the difficult thing was for the people who weren't necessarily willing to make that buy-in

and everyone around them is going fucking crazy. You know, one of the best buy-in stories for the war boys too is that they're in this village where apparently you know some of the higher end actors you get set up they're getting robbed all the time they're like don't walk around by yourself and then somebody tries to steal a jacket from one of the the stuntmen yeah yeah and uh and then they get Nathan Jones, this gigantic athlete who plays the biggest, buffest guy in the movie to intercede on their behalf. And I also

think it's really funny. The War Boys, they have this sort of white powdery face and body and these hollowed out but kind of like black eye makeup, eye sockets. And they could clean the powder off at the end of the day,

but getting like the gunk off their eyes was just, you know, you'd have to sort of rub them red practically. So a couple of weeks into the shoot, they're like, whatever, I'm going to fucking fall asleep in this black eye makeup. I'm going to smear my pillowcases, whatever needs to happen, because it's just not coming off.

And then by the end of the shoot, they realized that all the young men in Swakopmund, the place they were staying in Namibia, started wearing black eyeliner, mascara, kind of emulating these buff Australian stuntmen who were wearing it all the time too. So as one of the stuntmen said we accidentally glam rocked the fuck out of that place leading up to all this and for people maybe still new to this story uh somehow is that then warner brothers pulls the plug on the movie while

they're shooting while they're shooting so go ahead yeah i mean again it's one of those things where any normal person will give up because it's like active God shit where you cannot make this movie. You cannot complete this movie. You know, even after 15 years to get it on its feet, that's a remarkable accomplishment. Even to keep this movie going while the leads hate each other and so many people don't know what they're doing. That's an accomplishment. hate each other and so many people don't know what they're doing that's an accomplishment but it all still could have meant nothing because the guy who ran warner brothers at the time was trying to get an even better job in the in the company and meanwhile there's this movie that everybody in

hollywood is hearing is falling apart where the leads hate each other and it's going to be this huge bomb and he flies to namibia and he's like, I can't have this on my watch. So he shuts the movie down before they film the beginning and the ending of the movie. So the Citadel scenes, for those that have seen it, that had never been filmed. So we just have hundreds of hours of footage from the desert. The dailies are going back.

Everybody thinks it sucks, right? And they're flying out to visit and George is telling them to fuck off, essentially. And then it's just over. Then it's over without a beginning and end after months in the desert yeah basically any film basically anything in the film that didn't involve cars they hadn't filmed yet you know so that's max getting captured at the beginning the introduction of the morton joe the bad guy the introduction of furiosa um and then at the very end, when they return to the Citadel and go up in it, that hadn't been shot either. And it was a well, figure it out kind

of situation where they were trying to decide, can we use narration to cover this up? And they just weren't getting there. And, you know, again, what a fucking dispiriting thing when you're a director and you've been pushing this vision through for so long and you were so close, but you have your legs cut off when you're in that final stretch. And it was only an incredibly lucky break that helped them out because the guy who was running Warner Brothers did not get that job he was angling for. And the guy who did, after that other guy got fired, took one look at Fury Road and said, this doesn't make any sense without a beginning and ending and greenlit another shoot in Australia. So they finally got to shoot the beginning

and the ending of the movie. And it's one of the few times on this movie where luck ended up going their way. Because, yeah, I do think, and I'm glad to hear you say this. I've heard other people say this. You know, you read this book and you know that the movie turns out to be a masterpiece. You know that it won six Oscars.

Like it's considered one of the best action movies ever made. But I think even when you read it, you're thinking to yourself, are they actually going to pull this off? Like, are they going to be able to make this? Because so much shit went wrong or was against them that you forget. And it just seems like the sort of obstacles that, you know, someone like you or I wouldn't be able to surmount and keep that torch burning for 15 years. Like, if it had taken 15 years to schedule this podcast, I would have said, you know

what, it's not meant to be. But like a 15-year enterprise to get this huge production off the ground where it's not meant to be but like a 15 year enterprise to get this huge production off the ground where it's been shut down you know twice it's been shut down sometimes before it was even filming um you know at some point you just gotta say it's embarrassing that i'm continuing to do this because nobody has this faith in me and george miller just isn't that type of person like you know he just has these blinders on when he makes a movie where all that outside noise doesn't get

to him and it's a kind of crazy thing to encounter somebody like that because I think any normal person would have given up way way way way way before he never did 10 nominations 6 wins way, way, way, way, way before he never did. Ten nominations, six wins, but before we get to Oscar night and the wins,

it was kind of interesting. I'll admit there was even one part of the book that sort of pissed me off. And it was like, wait, we know we made this great action movie. People are losing it, but this is at another level. People are appreciating this in a category where these movies are not appreciated.

And I think there's one PR person that was like, oh, we started noticing some momentum, where it was like, well, you weren't going to do shit for the movie. Yeah. Nothing. You weren't going to promote it, and it didn't land perfectly. I think you said, what was it, May or something of 15? So it was kind of like it didn't have that late push Yeah. lies on this which again i understand is kind of the pr part of it but that there was one line in the book where i actually got annoyed reading it thinking like you didn't even know what you had and then once the audience responded then there was a push which i don't think would have changed

much because it still won a ton of awards they didn't know what they had i mean truly until the very end they were battling george you know warner brothers made their own cut of the movie because they they took out everything that was cool, crazy, wild, bizarre. And those are the things that give the movie its verve. So they didn't know what they had. They thought they were sitting on a huge bomb. And to be fair, when the movie came out, it wasn't a huge blockbuster.

I think we forget this now because the movie so quickly became iconic. But that movie was number two at the box office the weekend it came out. It was beat by Pitch Perfect 2, you know? And that was also the summer that you had things like Avengers Age of Ultron. You had Jurassic World. These other movies, franchise films like Fury Road is, even though it doesn't feel like it, that made

over a billion dollars. Fury Road did okay. But by those standards, it wasn't anything. It was a speck of dirt. So by the time they got to the Oscars, movies like this never get nominated for the Oscars that Fury Road got nominated for, like Best Picture, Best Director. And it already hadn't done that great. So I'm sure people at Warner Brothers had just sort of, you know, moved on and pretended that they had nothing to do with it. It took them forever. And it was a real bottom up kind of crusade, where Oscar voters were like, I mean, yeah, you're, you're showing us like all these traditionally Oscar movies, but can we talk about Fury Road?

That's the movie I'm still thinking about. And as somebody who writes about the Oscars a lot in his day job, I know that there have been plenty of incredible movies. The movies that we still think about from whatever year they came out, that Oscar totally ignored. So it's almost crazy that they got it so right. You know, that they gave it 10 nominations, picture director, that it won six, you know, and I think they were sort of at the very beginning of that wave that has continued to grow and grow since that movie came out of like, holy shit, like this movie has continued to find its audience over time, which is incredible

because, you know, mostly people have come to it on, on DVD or digital. And this is a movie where if you get the chance to see it in the theater, if it's, you know, if your theater is like, let's just do one Fury Road screening, you've got to go see it in a theater because it's incredible to have that, you know, those images and that sound wash over you on a giant screen. And I think I'd be curious to see, since they're going to make a Furiosa prequel now, if they'll actually have some wind at their backs, not just with the studio who didn't believe in Fury Road, but now can see what he was making all along, but also the people who are working on the movie.

A lot of the people who worked on Fury Road thought this is not going to come together. And now that you know it is, now that you can put that faith in George Miller and know it's going to be rewarded, is it going to be an easier time for him to make Furiosa? Or is it just going to be like it always is with the George Miller movie

where he's pushing things to a degree that people will always kind of step back and say wait no we can't allow you to do this yeah because when you read it you go okay well no one's ever going to let somebody do this again but I think the way Hollywood actually works is eventually someone will say we need to try to do this again even though you know I don't I, cause there's just so many times where, like, I loved the part in the beginning where they were like that first scene with Max and that chase in the car flips, like we hadn't shot it yet. So he could have CGI it. And then some of the stunt coordinators and I forget, maybe the effects guy with George was like,

no, no, no. The audience, if we show them the first scene that is real, then there is buy-in now for the next two hours and i thought that was really smart and it makes sense because i think it's absolutely true and then the reverse can happen like in the last fast and furious movie there's the shot of a car being like pulled through a building and you know you see all the glass and beams shattering and when i saw that shot, I thought it was CGI. I felt nothing while I watched it. Um,

and it turns out they did shoot it for real, but the rest of the movie is so weightless that even the real shit doesn't register as real, you know? And I, I just think there aren't movies anymore where you see it and you feel it that viscerally because you know, your mind's eye knows

that it's green screen, that it's pixels, that those things aren't really happening. And I don't know that we'll ever get that again. I mean, number one, it's not easy. Number two, it's dangerous. And number three, George Miller is, I think, turning 77 and had been shooting crazy, dangerous stuff like this outside of Hollywood's eye, you know, since he was a young filmmaker. He knows inherently what you can actually accomplish

if you're doing it for real. He has an incredible stunt coordinator, this guy, Guy Norris, who has been working with him since the second Mad Max movie. This is a guy who, again, knows exactly what you can accomplish if you have these cars hit each other for real, if you have these stuntmen jump off something for real. And I don't think whatever hot new Sundance filmmaker they hire to make a Marvel movie knows any of that stuff.

So if Kevin Feige tells the new sundance filmmaker uh we'll just you know pre-visit and uh and do it in a computer the filmmaker's like sure uh whatever if that's if that's how you do things you know you need somebody like george miller who knows what you can accomplish for real and that is a rare breed and they're vanishing by the day that that class of directors who know how to actually pull this sort of thing off. Guy Norris stud in the book. I'm glad you mentioned his name because I think he is the one that explains none of the first car part with Max. I think that's, that's who has that line in there. And it's a, it's a very specific line and it's something I'll never forget. All

right. I feel like I could probably talk to you about Tom Hardy for an hour. But him apologizing to George at one of the festivals at the end. I think people already knew Hardy was a little weird. I know that I'm a huge fan. I don't know anybody that knows him. That can change things. But I don't know i don't did it did this movie end up hurting him at all it doesn't look like it did but i just wonder if

there was this this full circle moment for him once he saw it and realized holy shit this is amazing george is amazing now i get it now i'm going to apologize to this guy because every story in the book leading up to that moment makes you wonder as great as hard he is. And you also describe him well and somebody else like when you just see him, you know, it's something different. You see his face, this, this smile that's endearing, but this, this other look that scares the shit out of you, that he's the epitome of a movie star, just his face alone. Um, so I don't think it's like career is going to fall off, but I'm just wondering the way the town kind of looks at him now post this but the full circle of what he went

through well and sometimes you don't even see his face right so many of his iconic roles like he's covered up or he's got a mask on including with fury road half the time uh but there still is something that burns through the screen he has that. He has that wildness. Again, great for us as a viewer, because we don't actually have to deal with what it takes to get him to the place that you want to get him to. And it was a very fraught moment for him when he made this movie, in part because it took a long time between casting it and actually shooting it, because it's a George Miller movie. It takes forever to get these things off their feet. A lot of people were saying, no, you can't do it. How are we going to get the financing? So in the time between he was cast and the time that they shot, Inception came out. He went and

shot Dark Knight Rises, which he was only able to do because they had to delay Fury Road. So his star started to really rise. He had become this up-and-comer. Well, he started as this up-and-comer that they were making a huge bet on. And it just turned out that they had made exactly the right bet because when they started filming Fury Road, he had become an A-list star.

He wasn't an up-and-comer anymore. And I think that was a tricky thing for him because he had this thing that he'd been chasing for a long time. And he was going to feel every bit of it. He was the sort of person where, listen, if the production has to sort of bend itself around me, then that's what's going to happen for me to do my best work. Since then, he's had a very interesting kind of career. I think he found something in

the Venom franchise where he can build a really mainstream superhero franchise around him. Around him doing crazy funny voices and really wacky shit that sometimes really works. Something like him jumping into the lobster tank

in the first Venom movie. That's a total Tom Hardy improv. That is him absolutely failing towards the truth in the way that he likes to do. Just so happens that ended up being the most memorable thing about that movie. So he's found something that really works for him. But I think he's got perspective on what went down. He gave me a pretty interesting quote about the conflict between him and Charlize where he says he wishes now that he's sort of an older, more mature, uglier actor,

that he could go back and be the scene partner that she needed. And I think they both feel that way. They both feel like so much of the tension from this could have been drained if they really knew that it was going to all turn out okay. I think that's why it's not easy for Charlize to know that she can't be in the Furiosa prequel. It's a younger version of the character. They cast Anya Taylor-Joy as young Furiosa. of the character. They cast Anya Taylor-Joy as young Furiosa. And I get it because it takes place over a series of years. But I think Charlize wishes more than anything that she could have that

experience again, the experience of shooting a Mad Max movie with George Miller and remove all the anxiety. That maybe without that, she could relax and enjoy herself more that her and Tom will get along better. And I know that he feels the same. You know what you were making. And now I do. And now I get it. I finally get it. You know, you don't usually hear that kind of honesty. That was one of the things where when it happened at the time, it made me kind of file that away and think there's a lot more to the story than they're telling us in the press right now. And by the way, if you're a Charlize Theron fan listening to this podcast, after you read the book, you're going to love her even more.

Because her perspective on everything is perfect. Everyone else, the way they speak of her, clearly she's a huge star. We pretend we know these people. We don't know them. But her authenticity just comes right through the book where i imagine you are somewhat almost biased because of the time you spent around

her i think i think it's very clear that like she's just impressive for so many different ways well also you know fortunately and tom to be able to kind of like look back and admit to things that they wish they could have changed that they were bringing to the table is, you know, I think, I think a good thing. I've interviewed enough stars and you've probably done enough interviews to, to know that like famous people are not always very self-aware. In fact, a lot of the time they're famous because they're not at all. They have an unwavering belief in themselves that everything they're doing is right. So I thought it was really fascinating. I mean, even Charlize, as she recounts the shit that Tom did that aggravated her,

she's always taking a measure of responsibility herself and saying, listen, I wish I could go back and just have been more chilled out about this experience. But I was fearful the whole time. I'd never made a movie in the way we were making that movie. And for someone like Charlize, who, you know, let's be honest, kind of is the protagonist of this movie and has such an arc to play, you know, it's not easy when you're doing it in those micro increments. It's a real testament to what she was able to do as an actress, but then also how deeply felt

and thought out that character was by people like George Miller, that she could return to this sort of like inherent base of who Furiosa was, even if it was just a, Charlize, all we need you to do is turn your head kind of shot, you know, that she could summon Furiosa and do that. And so it feels like this incredibly coherent performance.

It's, you know, bar none, like one of the most iconic performances she's ever given. And it's incredible that she was able to give it when you read how they shot it. Well, it's one of my favorite movies ever and I was curious. I was like, how's oral history going to stand out?

Because sometimes I think guys do oral histories and I'm like, ah, this is a layup. Yeah. And it's so good, man. So again, Blood, Sweat & Chrome, Kyle Buchanan. Thanks for the time today. This was awesome. Thanks, Ryan.

You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible let me tell you what's

required life advice life advice rr at gmail.com in our first ever this is our first ever life advice breakout on video right now on the ringer feed it just went live definitely the most embarrassing one yeah i don't know if it's the first but whatever i feel i don't know there was there was so much it didn't matter what we did in anything on Tuesday's podcast because once people realized that live in the podcast Kyle sort of realized that his family may have lied to him about stone or the dog um it ended up becoming a video and we broke it out we don't even we're not even usually ready for those things so uh life advice rrgmail.com speaking of dogs I know this is surprising we had a lot of dog follow-ups. Yeah.

Some people were very, very upset. Not really with us, which I was hoping to avoid. And I thought we were fair about the whole thing. We've even had attempts. I think two people reached out about potentially adopting the dog. The biter? Nice. Yeah.

Great job. Can I have your dog that bites people? Well, he doesn't want the dog to go down. You know what the thing is? No one's upset with us because we were very, you know, I think we were very, as we try to be very pragmatic about a lot of different things on the pod when it comes to the life advice part of it,

but people did not like the sister. The sister approval rating is very low. She didn't come off great in the email. Yeah. Okay. All right. sister the sister approval rating is very low and then she is she didn't come off great in the email yeah okay all right so um let's go arms are too big not a joke need help awesome 32 years old 59 175 you're probably reading the subject line and thinking wait what but here's the elevator backstory most Most high school, college, early 20s, competitive power lifter weighing at 198 to 20, depending on diet discipline. I was pulling 550 plus on straight deadlifts. Romanian, no sumo shit. We love the clarifier there. squatting 505 past parallel all right strong really strong guy 23 24 i had 385 on the bench and completely blew up my pec it was a mess but basically couldn't live for a couple months i used an excuse to booze and eat like an idiot as well that's where i hit 240 and saw a photo

myself and was like who the fuck is that guy i'm really not photogenic and i i'll be like wow but again espn pr i, went out of their way. They're like, let's make sure this guy never makes too much money. And we'll post this. Go ahead. I love you. But I think you can make an argument that you're the least photogenic famous person or like person whose face is on things that there is. Like, I don't know.

Holy shit, dude. But here's the thing is that you it's not like you're a bad looking dude. You're obviously in shape. It's the way that you stand like you stay or like or you stance bro no this is actually a true story ryan sent me a picture the other day of him uh posing with someone else and the carissa picture the carissa picture yeah and i just gave you a couple things i was like hey like hats a little bit too high like maybe maybe maybe move up shirt size it's a little snug it's not doing any favors

in the midsection and these are all just things i'm trying to help you out with but you've just never been good at it and it's okay we all have our flaws oh i had a friend that said i should reach out to a smile consultant you do you don't have some people don't have like a natural smile i don't think you have a natural like it is what it is they didn't you know no i look i agree with you i am i'm not telling you i'm the hottest dude of all time, but I am. Yeah. I'll see pictures and be like, is that what you actually look like? Like you should have got married 10 years ago.

I can't believe some of the women in your life that have even spent time with you. Like you're a horrifying. And then I may catch a glimpse of myself at the gym and I'm like, wait a minute. You're not as ugly as that guy is in there. I don't know. The most recent picture though though there were a couple buddies who were like how big are you gonna get like what's going on here when you say the mid section thing i'll tell you i'll push back a little on that i don't love that comment no i'm

not saying that i'm saying at all the shirt's not doing you a favor the shirt is not that's the problem it's not you it's the shirt right but that was like a couple beers in and the hats on like whatever and we're just yeah mean, I wasn't like... Some people are trying to suggest I'm a flat bill guy, which is not the case. It's just the 5950s. They're baseball hats. I like the way they fit.

They ride a little higher. I'm past the game hat deal, late 90s bent to the fucking extremes of geometry. I mean, it's just... I'm not doing a Matt Walsh Iowa State. So, but that picture, this speaks to the emailer. I was like,

maybe you can stop bulking. Yeah. Maybe you can just. There isn't too big. There is this thing that's too big. It was close to 240 in that one. And again, I'm not fat. I'm telling you right now, I'm not fat i'm telling you right now i'm not fat but i'm ugly i'm an ugly fucking kid in pictures really ugly it's great meeting people and they're

like wait you're going out that guy strong as hell though so there you go it looks it looks terrible like oh and here's here's an interesting picture from wyoming so all right back to our guy. He got fat. He has huge arms. Anyway, I said, quit making excuses. Start being disciplined. Let's try this whole running thing. 18 months later, I went from 240 to 160. Holy shit, pal. This guy's like...

Are you puking every day, too? What the fuck's going on? This is one of those guys that's on some of those podcasts where there's a life coach. He's like, the problem is you you you're the fucking problem stop bitching about other people's success although sometimes i listen to those guys and go you know what he's not totally wrong sir rudy i trampled you no i just said he's got some david goggins you know books and he's got the feed going i get it shout out goggins back to backers by the way book recommendation chuck closterman the 90s one of the bestman, the 90s, one of the best books

I've read in years. One of the best books I've read in years. This guy's email, he's like, hey, I was going to listen to the advice, but I turned the podcast off. All right, so the guy, 24160, back to the email. I felt 10 years younger, and life was amazing. I started running half marathons and even ultra trail marathons with

some intense elevation. That's how I met my wife. She's a schmook. And more importantly, an amazing woman who makes me a better man. By the way, once the pec healed, I started only doing body weight lifting like push-ups and pull-ups, et cetera. By the way, after you tear a pec, you can actually, like depending, obviously, they're massively severe, terrible ones. But a lot of times, it's just you're going to be weak for a little while.

Flash forward and now we have a 15-month-old daughter. I'm constantly holding her and she's like 20, 25 pounds. 25 pounds at 15 months? That check out? None of us have kids? Kids grow fast. So Rudy, get research on that. That might be

true. Again, we're not your go-to pod for parenting. I'll admit the first six months of her life, I got a little wonky with the diet. By the way, I think every one of my friends that right away when they started having kids, they just started getting little tires around the midsection. I've gone from 182 to 175

running anywhere from 5 to 10 miles, 4 to 5 days a week. Yes, I know I'm a psycho, but whatever. I bring the running stroller and the daughter loves it. All right,'s cool hey man i love that you run like this the problem and advice i need help on with constantly holding my daughter my arms have gotten massive my waist stayed at he's got a 29 waist wow but he's got arms that match his physique at 200 pounds my shirt looks like i'm in mediums so yeah my buddy's even giving me shit with photos the way my shirt looks hey Hey, sounds familiar.

I know you're probably thinking, buy some bigger shirts. However, I work my ass off to get to this completely new wardrobe, and I don't want to toss these shirts. I also have some insecurities about gaining the weight back. I'll admit that. Do you have any advice to shrink my arms or do I suck it up and get my clothes? I'm the last

guy to ask about shrinking arms. I don't, it's been an all time. I think it's a shirt thing. There's a lot of shirt options, man. There's so many different companies out there that have different cuts and they're mixing a little spandex and I don't know.

There's too many shirts now. There's too many, too many different clothing companies. There's like, yeah, there's the one that like hides the dad bod, that shirt, shirt bubble. They they used they used to be the first year i did college game day in 2008 the guys that were in charge of putting the show together i think to be fair you could say weren't ultra

marathoners and so they decided to get shirts that they would like and we come out with these fucking canopy bowling shirts. Like they were enormous. And I remember just like classic McShay. You guys think I was bad. McShay first day is like, I'm not wearing that. Yeah. I was like, we're supposed to wear it.

We're all in the show. He's like, I'm not. He's like, I'm not wearing that. It looked like an asshole. Yeah. He's like bowling shirt. What the fuck is that? He's like, it goes under my thighs.

Like I'm not wearing it. And I was like, we're supposed to wear it. Todd. And he's like, under my thighs like i'm not wearing it and i was like we're supposed to wear it todd he's like you go ahead didn't do you guys showed up in a brioni and some pressed slacks the next day so uh i think this is a shirt thing because here's the other thing about arms it's a genetic like all of all of the different body parts that work for us that don't work for us things you wish were bigger not trying to get pg-13 levels here but you know i had a buddy who i bartended with he was one of the most unhealthy people i've ever met in my entire fucking life he just had

huge arms he just had big arms and if he worked out they got enormous because that's what was going to happen so i mean i eventually i guess you could stop holding your daughter but i mean think of your options here stop holding your daughter or just go out and research the shirt world and find something that's got a little bit more of a cut in the upper torso area that's just you know again maybe I shouldn't have picked this one but we

spent 30 minutes on it so I guess now we're invested we better follow through man well I will say I looked it up the average weight of a 15 month old is between like 21 and 23 pounds so she's a little on the heavier side well she bulks she bulks too just like her dad probably came out heavier but real quick there's no way that he's getting bigger because of his daughter there's no way that's true i'm sorry seems like the guy knows himself i don't know

yeah this guy's an ultra marathoner sarutiuti. No offense, bro. He's getting too jacked because he's picking up his baby daughter. That doesn't make any sense. That makes no sense to me. When's the last time you picked up a kid? Not any time recently. Years, probably. I had to carry a kid, I don't know, a couple years ago. And I was like, this is awful.

And then the mom came over. But is he holding her straight out like what there's no way like if you're usually you're like cradling them in your body right you're not holding the baby you're not doing like this it's like a curl this is like a curl though right if you're doing this for a while uh maybe i'm wrong maybe tell me i'm wrong i don't know maybe i'm wrong well i think i think the biceps are just engaged yeah that's fair that's that's that's what we're talking about that's kind of what you want. You want that engagement. But this guy doesn't want it right now.

So, alright. Stop picking up your kid or buy better shirts. Next one. Blocked by a podcaster. 6 foot, 190, 31 years old. Probably not me. I almost never ever block anybody. I know who it is. Wow!

There's one guy who blocks like everybody actually there's a couple but there's one predominant guy who blocks everybody all right let's have your guess it's bamani they have a whole like unblock both he blocks everybody and nobody even knows why sometimes yeah we talked to him about it we had him on the show once we tried to get to the i think we did something um i'd like call him and explain the segment but he was cool with it it worked out about it. We had him on the show once. We tried to get to the... I think we did something. I'd call him and explain the segment, but he was cool with it. It worked out. Anyway, yeah, I guess he does block a lot of people, but that's not who this is, so

good guess, though. 6'1", 90, 31 years old. Pick up Hooper when I can run around my infant twin's schedule. Don't pick him up. Describe my game as Al Horford-esque minus the size and general athleticism. All right. Big podcast listener, but over time,

it basically whittled my listening to a short list of business investing pods, you guys, and one other. Oh, so we're down to two sports. This life advice is regarding the last one. Won't share his name, but let's just say he used to play for the Rams and his co-host sells slums in the Virginia area on the side. He's not going to like that real estate criticism. After discovering this podcaster

on your pod a few years back, I really took to him and even been an ardent listener to his podcast. I went to go follow him on Twitter and he's blocked me. So you didn't even know you were blocked and then you went to go, hey, I like Chris Long's podcast and you were blocked. So you went to go hey i like chris long's podcast and you were blocked so they were talking about chris long's pod obviously and the real estate agent um i can only assume that i said something dumb to him back in my college do you think so i want to know what the tweet is so bad do you think maybe because that's what i always love is when somebody will say i you know i'll see it play out a little bit i honestly don't care who you block i don't think

we need a fucking announcement about it all the time it's like oh i block so and so like oh amazing cool um but almost every time i've ever seen one of these and be like i don't even know i was blocked then everybody else in the thread will go search that guy's mentions and they'll find it in 10 seconds and it'll be like a horrible thing you're a fucking loser and i wish your family burned yeah and it's like oh i was just kidding yeah i did say that yeah that guy's 86 that's what i like about the block he's never coming back to this bar all right so he thinks he said something dumb to long that had to do with courtland finnegan and andre johnson oh man he needs to give us his handle did he give us the handle because i could look at i could look this up right now i can give you his name but i'm not going to do that on the podcast um so here's the thing he goes i don't know what i said but i think it might have been

courtland finnegan and andre johnson um and then he said about chris long he goes it's mostly eagles in my morning jacket tweet so maybe i'm not missing that much but for some reason it has me feeling down that's not even true yeah so he's like i really like this guy but i probably pissed him off and it was probably about this even though i can't think anything and by the way his content is even that good so i i don't know i don't know what to do now so i guess the question is how do i approach getting this person unblock me not doing any of the things you just did statute of limitations for annoying not bad stuff has to be like five years right yeah i think that's true though

you said something about that but here's what you know you're not going to understand chris has never thought about you more than the second that he read your tweet and decided to block you like he has now moved on with the rest of his life he's on kid number two a lot of things have happened with chris long since this incident five years ago uh he's thought about it we can't even register how short that amount of time has been. So an adult would just let this go, but apparently I'm not there. Wow. What a save with that sentence. So I actually really like this email now because I thought it was funny because he just can't get past it.

It's just this gnawing thing. It doesn't mean anything. It shouldn't bother you, but it does bother you. I'll talk to him for you. I will give him your name, and I'll see if I can get you unblocked. But if you start firing off shit like my morning jacket's overrated,

I don't know what to tell you, man. I can't fix it twice. I don't think you should fix it. At all? I think if you're mean and not funny, disagree if you're like if you're like mean and not like funny disagreeing with something if you're like just mean to people on the internet and that's how you spend your time that's how you get your fucking

kicks then fuck you sorry for the cursing I know I told you I was gonna try to stop but that just got me fired up man I don't like I think you should be 86 I think you should be 86 forever I was gonna side I was like should there be a stat should there be like when you block someone like they unblock them in like five years that's a terrible

idea because then some of them are actually terribly severe and they're bad so it's a bad idea but i do think like if you say something really stupid like there should be a scale of blockage right if it's just like a dumb thing that annoys you and chris blocked him like years ago and it was really just like hey courtland finland Finnegan and Andre Johnson will kick your ass, dude. I feel like that's like two years, right? That's two years of blocking. And then after two years, you get unblocked. So like a whole department at Twitter for being like, all right, let's hand out sentences.

I don't know. Twitter's added like three features in the last two days. So I actually kind of like this. I think it should be some deal where it just expires. So after three years you don't realize that the person becomes unblocked so you block them three years goes by and then they're right back in the mix so there could be two tiers of blocking obviously all the terrible stuff like permanent blocking yeah like the stuff toronto raptors fans would say that would be a

lifetime ban fair and then there can be this other category where you just hit the block button, but it's like parole block. And then all of a sudden, you know, you know, whenever that start date is, then they're sort of back in the mix. That's a little bit more adventure to the whole device. I like this. I think you just invented a great new deal. They can't get an edit button going on over there, but why not this? Why not two tier blocking? It's like a timeout. You get putting Twitter timeout a couple of years. You do, you do if you do a bid for a couple years so you come back and you're you're a new guy i love when i see that i'm blocked by somebody who i don't follow and it's like they must have had a moment where i said something where they went like oh this guy it's like well i'm not even you're not even on my radar there was like two prominent cnn people that the only reason i even knew that i was

blocked was because there was some thing a video that came out and then i was like two prominent CNN people that the only reason I even knew that I was blocked was because there was some thing, a video that came out. And then I was like, wait, why can't somebody be like, oh, this is amazing or this is terrible, depending on where you're at. You can't see it. Yeah. And then I couldn't see it. And I was like, what? And then I go, I'm like, wait, this guy blocked me. I'm like, I don't even know who he was.

But I think it's because they have a complete misunderstanding of like where my head is at on a bunch of different stuff. I think it's because they have a complete misunderstanding of like where my head is at on a bunch of different stuff. And, you know, to keep it right down the middle, I, I wouldn't go on CNN or Fox news. So there you go.

Not that I'm going to be invited anytime soon. Cause I'm, I'm not super interested in having somebody in charge say something and then pointing out what they said. Doesn't sound cool. Cause we could just do it all day with both sides. So there you go um but yeah that's always like you're like wait what am i i'm like oh wow i was like this guy all right cool i don't

like that you guys are like oh there's no consequences i told you my favorite bar my childhood buddies band going on 10 years and like why should why should that happen and you can just all of a sudden be like oh yeah sorry, sorry, I was a complete asshole. But I think maybe we should have rules where after I was an asshole for a long enough time, then it just will pretend it never happened. I don't think so. The stakes are high enough.

You don't believe in growth, Kyle? The stakes are high enough. No, no, no, I do, I do. Like there's a bunch of stuff, like I've got all the stories. We've basically been doing this long enough. There's really no more good stories until they pop into my head with some weird situation.

But I wouldn't do that stuff now. But all that stuff that I did and got in trouble for it was questionable behavior. I don't think any of that is worse than like, like taking time out of your day to like really try to like turn the screws on some guy on the internet. That's probably making something that you watch. Like he's probably doing something and you're, you're probably go there to get it and, and consume it or whatever. And then you're taking the time out to turn the screws in. Fuck you, buddy. I don't know.

I just don't know why you would, I don't know why you would take your time to do that. And then think that like, oh, well, it's here's the thing though. Those people are probably like, there's, there's some fucked up shit in their life. That's making them do that. They're probably not super well adjusted to begin with. So, but I look, there's, there's definitely like one group that you go, hey, I don't know if that group can be fixed. But the other group that I think is just daily about it, I think it'd be an amazing reality show. You could just title it something, I'm not successful yet, dot, dot, dot. And then you find

people to be like, oh, you've got 80,000 tweets and you actually don't work in media or anything. Oh, okay. So you really like this website. And then you go through it and you actually don't work in media or like anything oh okay so you look you really like this website and then you go through it and you're like oh so you're just criticizing literally everybody else is successful all day long we're like okay now let's let's turn the lens around because my guess would be that not it's not an absolute as i say all the time there are never absolutes but i would say the large majority of people that spend all day fucking with people on social aren't exactly like the most desirable hires in their field probably not all right fair all right okay um i think we covered a lot of stuff today on the podcast please subscribe thanks to kyle and steve as always simmons and i on sund Sunday. And next week we've got,

I think the, we were creators for the TV show. We got F one. We got a bunch of different stuff. Obviously basketball start cranking up here too. So I'm excited. Thank you as always. Please subscribe. Outro Music