The Ryen Russillo Podcast - "Angry Football Guy," Plus 12 Questions With Andy Benoit and Kevin Clark | Dual Threat With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: July 3, 2019

Russillo rants about "football guy" during NBA free agency before asking SI's Andy Benoit and The Ringer's Kevin Clark a series of questions about the 2019-20 NFL season. They talk Todd Gurley, the biggest gap between front office and head coach, Tom Brady's 2018 season, Cleveland Browns hype, the first coach fired, Pat Mahomes II, hilarious headlines, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's up? Ryan Russillo and the final dual threat until we pick it back up this fall. Kevin Clark, Andy Benoit going to join us. 20 questions. We may not get to all 20, but I have a bunch of different topics, things I want to get to and kind of getting ready for real training camp a little bit later this month. Although I do want to say shout out to all the football guys. Because you take pride in being a football guy more than anything.

I don't, the NBA free agency, as you guys know, I'm more of an NBA guy, but I like college football just as much. And then, you know, the NFL is something, if you're doing this job, you're just in it. And so, you know, what the hell else am I doing on Sunday except watching 10 hours of the NFL? So I like it. But I've never understood. And I remember going back to my Boston days of like covering the Celtics. And then the Pats guys thought that they were the shit.

Like somehow if you didn't cover the Pats, you were a loser. You'd be like, you know what's a loser move? It's pretending you're on the team when you cover it. So congrats on the title that you watched and didn't participate in. So it was a very arrogant, like, oh, I'm going to be a Celtics guy, huh? That's cool. Maybe things will work out for you in a couple of years. So there is this weird deal where Florio took some hits and every now and then Florio will send out a tweet that I cannot even fathom to begin to understand it.

like look at all this NBA free agency. And then he actually Florio got beat up for this. Maybe that wasn't fair, but it was kind of like, why would the NBA have free agency right at the start of July 4th? And it's like, or it doesn't matter when it starts because it couldn't have been more ridiculous on Sunday. So even though I think a lot of you that are downloading this,

either it's because you like me or you just like football, there's this extra sense of pride that I've always noticed from football people. And then Schefter was tweeting out, like, I can't remember an NFL free agency like this at all. You want to know why? Because it's never even close to happening, Schefter. Not even close. You want to know why? Because NFL players don't get to free agency, except for the hurt ones that nobody wants the incumbent team, but

doesn't want to play anymore or pay. Excuse me. I shouldn't say play. So yes, every now and then there's one or two guys, but never the quarterbacks if they're good. So you don't really have the landscape being altered in a day like you had with the NBA this past week. That NBA free agency Sunday is unlike anything I've ever seen in any sport ever. The only thing that can match is my make-believe, will one sport get desperate enough about off-season transactions where they would just redraft everybody.

Maybe you get to keep one guy as a keeper. Like baseball teams, imagine if baseball did that, just every year redraft everyone. I mean, that would suck for all the investments you put into minor leaguers. It's totally unrealistic. The NBA might be the only thing that could pull it off. Football wouldn't make any sense. There's a million different players.

And if you were doing new deals every year, then those guys would get screwed even more on the guaranteed money. There'd be a way maybe you could figure this kind of thing out. But the pride that someone will have, like hockey guy, knows no one's paying attention. But you also don't want me talking about it because I don't watch it enough to know, and I never played it. But yeah, if I watched a full season, I would pick up some things as a guy that's watched sports his entire life. Like, how come that guy makes a stupid fancy pass instead of shooting it?

How come that guy, whenever he's trying to bring the puck into the zone just tries to skate through 10 dudes and doesn't ever you know just do something simpler to just get the puck in the zone how come that guy's awesome at not playing the puck and playing the man defensively and smashing him into the boards and screwing up anything they were doing that guy consistently does the right thing all the time on defense like I would tend to notice those things if I were watching all the time but since But since I'm not, I'm not going to start giving you Stanley Cup final breakdown when I know I'm just not comfortable enough talking about the sport.

So Hockey Guy, I think, accepts that. And it is a little bit like Soccer Guy, although Hockey Guy is a lot easier to deal with. And that Soccer Guy is always mad that if you don't talk about it, but then as soon as you do talk about it, he's even more mad that you're talking about it. So you'd actually, Soccer Guy,

rather not have any of us talk about anything ever except send out a bunch of Rapinoe tweets that show us that we're down with the USA. So back to football guy and NBA free agency. Here's the thing. If you don't like the NBA, you hate it,

player branding, entitlement, all those things, and honestly, those criticisms are accurate, also fuck off because you don't need you. I'll never understand guys destroying like herb street who i love as a guy and loved hanging out with him and being on the road for six years i love that guy but it definitely bummed me out when he was like oh nba draft worst day of the

year this thing sucks would rather watch reds marlins all season long well guess what you get to watch it almost 20 times anyway. So wish almost granted. But the pride that football guy has and this almost, hey, look at me. When football guy owns the calendar, this sport owns the calendar unlike anything else. The NBA offseason is more entertaining

because there's actually more going on. The NFL offseason free agency actually is a huge letdown, unless you're a total film nerd and you know actually how these guys are plugged in. The basketball guys, here's the thing. You actually know whether or not the guys are good or bad. For the most part, you don't know if a defense,

just admit it. Look in the mirror and go, I don't know if the defensive linemen are any good. I don't know if that was that guard's responsibility. I don't know if the corner did the right thing or if he played the wrong side and he screwed the safety or if the safety sucks and didn't bring help. Most of us don't know. Most of us don't know.

Basketball, you're like, hey, that guy sucks. Yeah, he does. Okay, done. Let me double check the numbers. Yep, terrible warp. So this sounds like an attack on Football Guy. It isn't. It's more of a, it's okay to be left out of the news cycle for like a few hours.

That's it. And some football guys had a real hard time with it on Sunday when it was a seven-hour blitzkrieg of NBA moves that actually meant something because this league has been flattened in a way that I've never seen before. If Kawhi ends up with the Lakers, you say, oh yeah, super team. Let's see part of that. I kind of want to see it happen because is it really going to be that great? Cause it should be because those three guys are the best that LeBron's ever played with. But part of me would want to see it be toppled, right? Cause on paper, that's ridiculous to see

how the rest of it goes. So football guy wasn't getting enough. Football guy felt like the middle child at a family reunion when, in fact, it's like, yeah, but you're the famous middle child who was just in the Avengers. And your older brother just got engaged, and we're going to cook burgers in a lake. Is it okay if we pay attention to your brother who, again, got fucking engaged this week and we're just going to throw some burgers on the grill? Maybe we'll take out the boat. Maybe it'll be some water skiing. But everybody knows deep down that, yes,

you're a famous actress who, you know, like you're always going to be the biggest thing, the center of attention all the time, but this weekend isn't your weekend. Is that okay? All right, moving on. Belvedere, what's up? Part of a 600-year Polish vodka-making tradition, Belvedere vodka is all-natural and made with 100% non-GMO Polska rye and pristine water. Belvedere has championed Polska rye vodka and superior natural ingredients since its

inception and continues their mission with its new Belvedere Single Estate Rye Series. These award-winning vodkas, Smagory Forest and Lake Bartezek, are two distinct tasting vodkas born from unique terroir and expert craftsmanship. Should we leave that in there? Smagory Forest is crafted from rye cultivated on a single estate deep in the vast woodlands of Western Poland. If I show up to Western Poland this year, are they going to say, hey,

I'm here, guys. We've been waiting. Right. We've been waiting. Like, someone get a rifle. Where long summers in a pristine environment help develop a bold, robust and savory vodka. The reason I even bring that up is I keep thinking the firstborn identity, it's also known as born identity,

where he runs up into the field away from the house when Clive Owen's coming after him. I'm a huge Clive Owen guy. I love him. King Arthur was great. Shout out to K.A. Every time I think of Smagory Forest in western Poland, I keep thinking that scene.

I don't know why. Anyway, you know that it develops a bold, robust, and savory vodka. But then again, Lake Bartezek is crafted from rye cultivated on the shores of a glacial lake in northern Poland's Lake District, where long, snowy winters help create a fresh, crisp, and delicate vodka. They want me to do something around the craftsmanship. I think we already did it. It's called The Bourne Identity. Check it out.

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Okay, the final duel threat until we pick it back up this fall. We get Kevin Clark of The Ringer, Andy Benoit, Sports Illustrated. So really, the premise of this whole thing was 20 questions. I don't know if we're going to get to 20. I have 20. I have bonus ones. So we've gone over these. I do know that I've prepped you both separately.

So there's a good chance. There's like 12 that I gave Kevin and eight of those are accurate. And then Andy has like a handful of other ones, but you know what? Some of this is dangerous. I'm not saying this is a safe space podcast. It's a little dangerous today. Just got out wearing a tank top and I'm just kind of pumped to get through

this whole thing. So are we ready? Yes. Okay, the premise is almost 20 questions depending on what we get to. Okay, as minicamps, well, I guess we already did the minicamp part. We're on vacation. Right, we're on training camp time, about 15 days or so, something like that when the first one opens up.

So there's more of this then, but it's already been a little bit of a leak. Give me your favorite no-shit headline from a team just admiring their own draft pick or something that's just so classically predictable. Andy, I'll start with you where you go, that headline, okay, we get it. I'm going to twist it a little bit. I think it's the Dwayne Haskins headlines with just, oh, we're waiting to see. We'll see how that goes. I understand that. The part that shocked me, and now I'm not really even answering

your question, Ryan, but I wanted to make sure we got this in. The part that floored me was Doug Williams, their senior vice president of player personnel, basically saying it's going to be a group decision on starting Haskins. That I did not see, and that I've never heard of that working out when it's not all coaches in on a group decision on starting Haskins. That I did not see. And I've never heard of that working out when it's not all coaches

and on a group decision. Yeah, Haskins for me is number one with a bullet. Just the idea that he's ready week one is so unanimous from the media. And I wasn't ready for that because I think Case Kingdom is okay. I thought it was going to be a little more of a process. I was surprised by that. My favorite headline the last couple weeks, I don't know if you saw this

Ryan, there was a story about how Bruce Arians is not in the quarterback room with Jameis Winston. He's putting it all on Byron Leftwich. He's also not calling plays, by the way. The way that was spun was oh, he just trusts Byron Leftwich.

This is great for Byron Lethwich. What is Bruce Arians doing? Wasn't that the whole reason you were brought in? Yeah, you're the quarterback guru. You're here to fix Jameis Winston, and now it's June, and you're just not in the meetings? Is there any way, and I don't want to go conspiracy bill here

because I feel like that's been trademarked, but there's no way this is true that Arians like this guy is so not good that I don't want to be involved. There's no way that's true. That would be a weird imagine. Oh my God. Now that I'm here and I see it. All right. I don't want anything to do with this guy.

There's a case you made that Winston's vertical game can match up okay with that sort of offense, but I tend to think there's a 5% grain of truth to that. Just the idea that he's just like, when's it going to be gone after this? You're not going to get involved.

But he's all, I mean, like. That wouldn't make any sense. There's no way that's even true. It doesn't make any sense. So I'm just saying, what is he doing if he's not fixing the quarterback? It's very strange. The other one.

CEO. A CEO type. He was like, you know, before I actually do anything good here, The other one... CEO. CEO. A CEO type. He was like, before I actually do anything good here, I'm just the CEO. He's the quarterback guru who decided he's just not going to do quarterback guru. It's like when Bob Dylan decides

he's not going to play like a Rolling Stone anymore. Yeah, like if Greg Williams is like, I'm not calling plays. If Greg Williams is like, I'm going to be the tight ends coach. I'm just going to sort that out. I just want to... We're going to be more of a conditioning guy for defense.

Yeah, we're doing jazz odyssey. Anything to add to that, Andy? Jazz odys sort that out. I just want to, we're going to be more of a conditioning guy for defense. Yeah, we're doing jazz Odyssey. Anything to add to that, Andy? Jazz Odyssey. Well, I know years ago, Bruce Arians would say privately to people around the NFL, if I can't call plays,

I don't want to coach anymore. Yeah, I remember that. I remember that all in place. Yeah, so he, and he's been super high on Byron Leftwich for several years. And I think the one thing

that's interesting about Leftwich as a Q, because I met with Leftwich once once and he, by the way, is the most tight-lipped coach I've ever, he makes Belichick look like an open book. So I don't know a lot about his philosophies, but remember he had that long windup delivery. That was kind of his downfall as a quarterback.

That's the issue with Winston as well. And I don't think that's something you can fix. I think it's something you have to play around. So it's interesting. I'd love to hear some something you can fix. I think it's something you have to play around. So it's interesting. I'd love to hear some of their conversations about, hey, here's what we do as long wind-up passers to make ourselves successful in the NFL. I feel like I jumped you there, but Kev,

did you have something else to add? No, no, I was just going to say the other hilarious headline I saw this morning was that the NFL and the PA want to get the CBA done by the beginning of this season, two years early. The most contentious, should be the most contentious negotiation in maybe modern. I don't understand why the people that leak it on the ownership side do that kind of stuff. Because it doesn't actually work. I think it's optimism. I think it's optimism to just be like, oh, well, we're going to start on the right foot. Maybe we'll get it done.

But that's like listing a house going, I'd love to close in a couple weeks. Yeah. I'd love someone to pay list and help me pack. Yeah. So, all right. That sounds like a great strategy. Why don't you do it? My favorite quote, at least from the minicamp portion of it, was in Gettleman, I could maybe

use for half of these answers, was that he said Daniel Jones' like a quarterback spot the lie spot the lie there is none there's none I have a little more Daniel Jones for you coming up a little bit later okay give me a change your mind guy whether it was a free agent signing some sort of decision made maybe it's a draft pick Kevin of someone where you go and this guy was taken or when all this happened, I felt this way. And now with time to reflect, you've changed your mind. Trey Flowers. So Trey Flowers, I think we overreacted because we know that the Lions are not practicing the Patriot way. The point of the Patriots is to let a guy like Trey Flowers walk, not to give him more guaranteed money than basically any defensive player on the open market.

So that was my initial thought. And then you start to see the market for pass rushers. And you see a team like the Chiefs get Frank Clark and then give up a first and a second and then also have to pay him. And so you start to realize that you him, you're not going to get a guy like Trey Flowers in the draft ready to go.

The Lions need to win now. Matt Patricia needs to save his job. So I have now talked myself into Trey Flowers being at least a decent addition when I thought

I'd just pan the hell out of that signing as soon as it happened. I like that one. The one that got me and what complicates it is the amount of money that this guy got at C.J. Mosley with the Jets.

I'm not there yet. I've not talked myself into that one. Well, okay, and I didn't think I was going to. For whatever reason, I've watched film with a lot of Ravens coaches this offseason, and all individually as well. So it's not like one guy was saying this and everyone jumped on board. In Baltimore, they loved CJ Mosley,

the coach's dream. And it's all the little things he does that don't show up on paper. Of course, sometimes even if you don't know the play call, they don't show up on film, but the Ravens run a very complex defense. And the reason why, and actually they lost this other guy too. It's Mosley and Eric Weddle patrolling the middle of the field and various

matchup zone coverages that makes them go. And I'm saying they knew they were losing Weddle. I don't think they knew they were losing Mosley. Now we can debate whether he's worth as much as the Jets paid him, but we can also debate what that means because the Jets had so much extra cap space that the money to Mosley is different to them than it would have been to another guy. So I'm more, when I first heard the Mosley signing, I thought you got to be kidding me. But I'm more optimistic about it than I was now that I've gotten to know more about Mosley.

I'm going to go with Denver on the Flacco thing in that I've never been a Flacco guy, even when he was probably thought to be awesome when he wasn't. I never had a problem with a contract that is the going rate for somebody. And it doesn't matter that he won the Super Bowl. He was going to get close to that anyway. But to have him in Denver in a situation where you hope he's pissed off, you hope he's mad, the contract is very manageable. I feel like we need to keep reminding ourselves with the way the cap works,

you are able to absorb mistakes in ways that you haven't been before. So when teams complain about that, I have no sympathy whatsoever sympathy whatsoever because i just go you know you're getting this buffer every single year it isn't this hard number that you're building to like there's always this little extra padding in there and he's not actually going to be challenged by a top 10 pick now which is what we thought was a possibility so if you look at flacco in this situation, like if you don't get it, if you don't show a marginal competitiveness at this point, you know, and from what I've heard, he's walking around, he feels great. He's looking around like I'm the guy here as opposed to looking over his shoulder with a Lamar Jackson thing.

At first, I'm like, what's the point? Now I get it, even though my expectations are somewhat muted. I've heard some Denver hype in a weird way. I've heard some Denver hype. You know, you bring in Mike Munchak. McFangio is a decent coach, I think, especially when you consider the other hires out there. They still have a lot of talent.

That's Chris Harris, Vaughn Miller. I'm hearing some Denver hype. You gave me a weird look there, though, when I talked about potentially drafting somebody higher than Drew Locke. I'm very good with facial tics, Kevin. I don't know if that was a tic. I was just looking right past you, whatever it was. Okay.

Just making sure. Andy? Do you guys think Denver views themselves as a contender right now? Well, I think that John Elway is so competitive he can't say anything other than that. I think that's been a detriment. I think John Elway's need to compete in everything, whether that's in contract negotiations, whether

that's every single year. They're not going to ever do the Dolphin style, let's take a step back and get to a type thing. I think that they try to compete every single year. I remember like Vance Joseph had six games under his belt, and all of a sudden, John Elway was like, we're soft.

Let's calm down here, John Elway. Okay, next one. Go ahead. Whoa, never mind. Bonus coverage. Well, bonus coverage. I'm jumping in. Around the NFL, guys, Fangio, I think if you polled offensive coordinators, hey, who do you least want to play against

as a defensive play call? I think Fangio would be the answer for about 27 offensive play callers. Can I tell you an embarrassing story? At the owners meetings, I was sitting next to this guy at a coffee shop about 20 minutes, I didn't recognize him, I just went,

doing my work, and he answers the phone call and he goes this is vic fangio and i said oh my god i'm fired did i just ruin your story yeah yeah he jumped on it no i knew where i was going i mean where else was it gonna be nowhere i wanted to ruin it i wanted i was like i know what's gonna happen do you ruin it i go yep because it's not about the three of us it's's about the hundreds of thousands of listeners. So, all right. Who is Todd Gurley? What is Todd Gurley right now?

Because as much as we can all, like in the moment, people were critical of the contract, and they should have been because it was stupid. And now people are saying, oh, that contract was stupid. And we're like, no, it's not stupid because he's hurt and coming off of an injury. We're still not sure what to make of. But I don't know that I'm ready to just completely write this guy off. And I normally would never do this, but I peaked at fantasy rankings and fantasy rankings are such prisoner of the moment deals that they'll have you taking Eddie Lacey fourth overall in a draft and especially with running backs. And I feel like I need more proof that Gurley's toast

before I'm ready to say this guy's toast. Well, I think he's about to be a guy who's going to be phased out because of Henderson. No kidding, because of the draft. I don't think that he's going to get cut. Let's not be dramatic here. He's still going to get 15 touches a game or whatever they're talking about with the Rams.

But first of all, the offensive line is awesome. And it's one of the two best offensive lines in football. The other one being the New England Patriots. Surprise. That was the value of the offensive line. And I think they're going to realize there's value in just getting somebody healthy back that are going to hit the hole. So if he struggles a little bit, I didn't want to have any problem going to Henderson.

They ran outside zone 52 times more. It's from football focus. They ran outside zone 52 times more. It's from Pro Football Focus. They ran outside zone 52 times more than any other team last year. Henderson averaged 10.7 yards per carry on outside zone plays last year.

I mean, let's not act like playing at Memphis is like playing in the NFC West, but that's pretty good indication that he's going to be able to hit the scheme really hard, really quickly, and Todd Gurley might be in the background earlier than we think.

Okay. On outside zone, the whole point of it is you plant your foot and you make the one cut and go. And when you watch Gurley on film and kind of hear the whispers, he doesn't plant his foot the same way because his knee's not what it was even at the beginning of the season

last year. So toast. Toast time. So you would not put him... Toast feels a little harsh, doesn't it? Will he ever be a top five running back again? No. Wow. Top ten? Maybe.

At this point, you're like, just ask another question because top 10, who cares? Okay. Give me. You could just jump in and give me my answer again like the Vic Fangio story. Every time I ask a question, just answer. Biggest dick move in the history of Dual Threat right there. Well, the listeners knew where the story was going. Did they?

Probably. Somebody ruined something for me the other day i forget what it was it was a tv show it was on twitter and then i felt like oh below deck spoiler alert mila the chef gets fired do you have you watch this below deck you guys watching below deck i'm not i feel like this is a comedy routine right now you guys paying attention to current events wild huh wild times got these iphones so yeah below decks kind of a little guilty pleasure it's basically a show it's a reality show where there's these super yachts that are rented out i've looked up the prices just to get a gauge on it i think it's like between 50 and 70 grand depending on where

you're doing a night um but i don't think that's accurate i don't i don't i don't know that i believe that that seems thanks for sharing that with this thing no but that seems ridiculous like three nights 150 grand buy your own boat you boat, you know, or, you know, something else. Or, you know, like a cottage in Weymouth or something. But so this cook, I don't know what happens. I don't know what the screening process is with these cooks. I feel like I'm losing Andy real fast here. Where they get hired on these super yachts and like they're the chef morning, noon, and night.

That's them. And this Russian girl just took a bunch of pictures of food that looked really fancy and it was on. And then the first night she was making tacos that like I would make after seven Coors Lights in college. And the head captains, Captain Sandy came down was like, what's going on with these nachos that you just fired up in the microwave? And she microwaved some fillets, and she's since been bounced. But I didn't even get to watch the most recent episode. Okay, so moving on. The biggest disconnect between front office and ownership and the head coach.

So we're going to do this, Andy. We'll say the front office and ownership are on one side, and the head coach is kind like getting getting the minutes from the meetings and you start yeah well i probably should have stayed my jay gruden answer for this one then right because that's that's i think that's so far and away the obvious choice but maybe i'm over the other one i think it's steven ross in miami and it's not going to go this way now because brian flores is in his first year but but I think Steven Ross is probably a difficult owner to coach for at times. I thought it was really funny how Peter Kane and a couple other people were like,

Steven Ross really wants to slow play this, maybe take a year off from competing, maybe get Tua next year. And then everybody who knows Brian Flores, he's going to try to win nine games. He might accidentally, him and Fitz might accidentally, and Josh Rosen might accidentally win eight games.

Put Fitz down for five at least. Fitz wins you five. Yeah. Fitz wins you five. And do we think, do we, Patriots win for Fitz this year? I can smell that.

Just a weird, maybe in Foxborough. A weird Miami win against New England? Absolutely. It happens like a lot. Because you have Fitz and you have the Dolphins. Those are two forces where it's just, look out.

Right, because Belichick's going to have to show them early Tampa Bay tape, right? You're like, look at this guy. And then some of the rookies are going to go, holy shit, who's this Hall of Famer? You're going to be like, don't watch week from 11 on. Okay, so you both said Gruden. I, too, this one feels unanimous.

What are we willing to believe about the Haskins story about how much Gruden knew or didn't know about, let's, I don't know, the franchise he's coaching, who they wanted a drafted quarterback? Are we safe? I think we'd believe a lot. I think we'd believe it. Alright, let's just, for specular speculation then. There's a story that

Jack Del Rio, let's back up here, said the other day that he was out getting a sandwich one day. Which team? The Jaguars. And the Jaguars traded up for him, Gene Smith. And they traded up for Blaine Gabbert.

And he was just getting a sandwich the whole time. I had no idea. That's going to make you feel good. I think that maybe happens more than we think. Not that specific anecdote, but kind of, we're going to draft this guy, and you're just going to deal with it. Okay, so how does that relate to Gruden, Andy? Well, because Jay Gruden has effectively been neutered as the head coach now. If he's not able to solely make the most important decision a head coach can make, which is who's starting,

and especially when it involves a rookie QB, man, not only is he out on that decision, where it's his area of expertise as an offensive guy, but it compromises his authority and validity on a lot of the other decisions he makes in that locker room. And you probably have a lot of eyes scanning around the locker room now, kind of looking for who's really in charge. How's that going to go? I just don't see how a coach can be expected to lead the team if someone in the front office publicly announces that, well, he's really only a fourth of the decision on the major decision here.

They also, by the way, the Bears didn't tell John Fox about the trade-up for Trubisky until right before, which is you know, and then he was fired. What if you think your head coach is like the worst at keeping secrets though, too? You could also do that. What if he's a new head coach? Well, here's the thing

yeah what if he's just I mean there's a lot of really good head coaches who just leak everything there's a lot of them and you can't fire them for leaking you just have to roll your eyes and say there he goes again how often do you think they're leaking something the team wouldn't want I mean like I guess and I'm asking this

is a genuine question what percent of leaks like that that come from the relative top down do you think the entire top field, like the owner doesn't mind actually that it got leaked? I think that there are a lot less shrewd head coaches than we think. I think there's certain head coaches or GMs who are like, I'm going to leak this because they're playing 3D chess. It's going to increase this guy's stock. We're going to be able to push this guy, whatever it is, right?

90% of head coaches are just having a corona light. They're just like, listen to this. This is what a linebacker did. Fucking maniac. It's more of that. Okay, let's keep moving here. Most unanimous negative thing you've heard all offseason. I'll go first. Every one of you guys that I have

on, when I go, all these new head coaches, give me the one that's not going to work. Every dude says Zach Taylor in Cincinnati. I'd say the McVay hires in general, the McVay tree in general. All of them are going to win? I think there's some skepticism about Zach Taylor, but I think there's maybe... Zach Taylor

was for me, for a lot of people, was the tipping point. I joked about really early in the process, I made sort of a meme. I said, if you know Sean McVay, you're going to get a head coaching job. Yeah, the Bud Light. It kind of went viral. It got a little viral. Regular Mina Kimes over here. People were in my DMs, people

from football, people in the media, and they were like the tipping point is if Zach Taylor gets a look. And then, what do you know? Zach Taylor becomes a head coach. I would also say there's some skepticism about Matt LaFleur. That was before he was hired, about just his ability to command a room and do some of the things the head coaches want to do. There was some skepticism I heard before that. I've not heard those criticisms since. No one in Green Bay has made any judgment on him to me since then. So I think there's just some general skepticism because

a lot of people who are not connected to Sean McVay are very jealous of the people who are in the NFL. And that's why a lot of the things that have leaked have leaked. The other one, I think that there's a, Andy, you may have heard this too, there's a lot of combustible

potential with Jacksonville this year. Well, I agree with what you said about the McVeigh tree. I agree completely with that. I think there is some envy around the league, and Zach Taylor has had probably the fastest meteoric rise in the history of Cubs. He was the assistant wide receivers coach two years ago. He was overqualified for that job, but he was basically number 12 in the pecking order. Now here he is running a franchise.

I'll tell you this. I got to spend three days with him a few weeks ago, and just everywhere he went, I went. I had done that a little bit with Marvin Lewis to the same degree, but I've had a chance to sit around Marvin Lewis. It's a different feeling organization there in Cincinnati, and the one thing they do is call the anti Jay Gruden scenario where whoever's the head coach is going to have a lot of runway. Mike Brown's very patient.

They don't turn over personnel or staffing a whole lot. So I would err on the side of me. I would err on the side of optimism with Zach Taylor, depending on what we're talking about for immediate expectations. I think the guy, the guy who's at the top of the McVeigh tree in some way, way back in the past, though, John Gruden, I've heard a lot of whispering and murmuring about the way

some of those practices are being run in Oakland. I don't know if that's true necessarily. I wouldn't even say it's a source kind of thing, but that's a little bit of the scuttlebutt is I think people are looking at Gruden a little side-eyed still okay then that's a good follow-up then because i'll add to that is everybody then right about gruden because i don't see anybody doing the hold on everybody let's push back the mob this is actually no one has volunteered to zig on the gruden story yet and that always makes me wonder does that mean everybody's wrong?

I think there's a real case that 90% of this has been a bit the last 18 months and that he was just doing, you know, the media changed on John Gruden. He was out for a long time. It was out for 12 years. The media changed on him. I think that he thought

that some of the funny lines, like, is it data or data? I think that that stuff worked in 2006 and now it doesn't work because of Twitter. I think that he had to have a little bit of adjustment just as far as the tone that he took with the media and his press conferences and kind of like the, why can't we get any pass rush? Like, I think he thinks that's funny and everybody's like, okay. And so I think that, I think that there's a very famous. He's going to tighten up his delivery before he comes up with updated football schemes. There's a very famous line about Donald Trump, which is... We don't want to make this podcast political. This has nothing to do with politics.

What if I just went there for like 30 minutes? Just did a deep dive. AOC, better offensive mind. That voters took him seriously, better offensive mind. No. That voters took him seriously but not literally. And the media takes him literally but not seriously. That's really good. I like that. Yeah, that's great.

And I think that you get into that with Gruden a little bit, where if you take him literally but not seriously, you miss the message a little bit of what Gruden is trying to do. I think you take to take him seriously, but not literally when he's talking. And that's sort of how I view the last 18 months.

I feel like he acquired a lot of draft picks. I do think, I really do think, Andy, maybe you can back me up on this. I really do think he watched one college game last year and it was the national championship game and he drafted a bunch of guys from that game. Because I thought that was just a coincidence. And then I saw some of his quotes about Josh Jacobs. He just kept bringing up the national championship game.

And I was like, this guy just wasn't a Buffalo Wild Wings until this game and wrote down a bunch of names. Can I get a napkin? It varies from one team to another, what the coach does on that. But I'll say this, on film, I thought Gruden's offense last year looked every bit as modern as most offenses in today's NFL. We didn't know who was running it. We didn't know that the guy calling those plays

had been out 10 years. It never would have entered anyone's mind that the offense is outdated. It did not look outdated on film. Alright, moving on. The biggest gap between this guy and the next best guy at his position in the NFL. So essentially we're saying this is the clear, undisputed best player at this position,

and number two is not close. Are you going to say Aaron Donald, Andy? Yeah, and I want to know. I've got a backup guy because I figured everyone's saying Aaron Donald, but I've got a backup. But yeah, I think it's Aaron Donald, and I don't know what it would be. I don't know whoever number two would be would even be close in this conversation. Who's your backup guy?

Kevin Byard. Oh. Tight in safety. That's pretty good. You think he's that? Jeez. You know what? That really should have been the exercise.

Other than Aaron Donald, which position would you pick where you feel like this guy has the biggest gap between because after i wrote it down i go the aaron donald thing's too obvious so i think we all wrote him down right well what happened when you you sent this question right and you packaged it with a player that is clearly the best at his position and the next is biggest gap and those are almost the same question with a slight difference i think byard is clearly the best at his position. I don't know if the gap between him and whoever, insert safety, Earl Thomas, Harrison Smith, whoever you

feel it might be, some of those young safeties, Jamal Adams, I don't think it's a huge gap, but I think Bayard is clearly the best all around safety in football. I will nominate Bobby Wagner only in the sense, I saw this from PFF and I was just stunned by this. He was ranked first in

from PFT. Oh, sorry. I didn't know what you... Now I know what you're doing. Pro Football Focus. First overall grade at his position. Coverage grade. And run stopping grade. He literally is the best at everything.

That's pretty good. Yeah, because I think Jamal Adams gets all the love. He's a lot of fun to watch. He's all over the place. But that's because he's on the Jets and has a good social media presence. Bobby Wagner is awesome. Oh, so you're talking Wagner.

I'm sorry. I thought we were back to the tight safety. Kevin Byard? Yeah. Never mind then. Good stuff on Wagner. Okay. Is there anything

I also feel like Andy took a little bit of a shot at my prep questions there but anyway is there anything that I would say is beyond the hype for the Browns

is there anything you can think of where you go actually this is more hyped up right now than the Cleveland Browns and the hype might be accurate so I'm not doing this like

hey this is inaccurate hype but I can't think of anythings. And the hype might be accurate. So I'm not doing this like, hey, this is inaccurate hype. But I can't think of anything. The Browns, the hype is a runaway train right now. And I think they're going to be quite good. But they did take a step back with offensive line. Obviously, in exchange for that, they upgraded their defensive line. But yeah, I think that they're by far the most hyped team. They're the only team last year that didn't make the playoffs

that everybody just banged the most hyped team. They're the only team last year that didn't make the playoffs that everybody just banged the drum for for the playoffs. I think if you polled the public, they'd be polling at 90% going to win the division, which I think is maybe a little overblown. Yeah, I felt that way about the Browns until I went back through all of my

film notes on them last year and then kind of looking at the stuff heading into this year. I don't see a weakness with that team. I think they're really good i think they're really really good i think they will make the playoffs but we're acting like they're you know second to new england here right right and i think the most talked about player in the nfl this year offensive line wise is potentially greg robinson their left tackle in cleveland because if they do fall short they struggle offensively i can guarantee you he's going to be at the forefront of it. He played well for them down the stretch last year.

And there are a number of coaches who had him in Detroit and L.A. slash St. Louis who would say, yeah, let's go ahead and see if they catch lightning in a bottle twice right there. Because Greg Robinson is not who you want to be relying on solely at your left tackle spot. And in that case in Cleveland, it is. They don't have any depth behind them either. Okay. Tom Brady, his 2018, there's a lot of ways you could have dug into that,

and we did while it was happening where you go this Patriots team is not as dominant they have bad losses the way they haven't had before there's numbers there with Brady where it felt like for maybe a month stretch it just it looked like it was finally going to happen and then they win a Super Bowl so does last year's 2018 for Brady Andy mean anything to you as far as what this regular season is or the playoffs just kind of wipe it out? I think the playoffs wipe it out. Last year, consistently, when they needed Brady,

they were a very run-heavy, almost a vanilla basic offense for much of the year. And then when they needed to be something else and rely on Brady, they consistently were able to and they consistently succeeded with that. Yeah, I agree. I think that, you know, there's an amazing FiveThirtyEight article from two years ago about the worst five-game stretches of his career, Tom Brady's career. And they're kind of random. There's no real mark to it. One was in 2010, 2015, 2013, 2009, 2017. He gets in these. Was it interception base or was it all straight QBR? It was expected points.

Oh, all right. Because sometimes with his interceptions, I know the throw that he makes where that linebacker cuts that route. It's the thing that Belichick always makes fun of. I know you were trying to make. Why did I have my hand up as if I was throwing a pass? You looked at me like you did not. I interrupted you and you had a thought to keep going. No, no, no.

I have my hand up as if I'm, first of all, I'm left-handed. I have my right hand up. Well. I think I was going. Maybe you're peeking later. I think I was going to try to show you the Brady throw and then I realized I didn't know what you were talking about. Yeah. I was like wow, how does everybody, the only reason I know is because

I've watched all these games and it's like the one throw. It was picked off in the Baltimoretimore playoff game yeah and so if you were just to go hey there's this randomness i almost feel like his interceptions are random and then of course there's a suspended season where he had 28 touchdowns to two picks which is just like i'm going through the numbers again and they're stupid but you could say all right the qbr is down for three straight years the yards per attempt is down three straight years completionBR is down for three straight years. The yards per attempt is down three straight years. The completion percentage is down three straight years. But again, I mean, the guy had, I think, the most attempts he had had in, well, because they weren't as good, the most attempts he had had in six seasons. Yeah.

So I think that Belichick's ability to adapt around him is key. I think if he had a worse coach and a worse, a less adaptable team that was able to change a game plan, I think this would be a lot worse if he had Zach Taylor. There'd be problems this year. Shout out to Zach Taylor.

Shout out, Zach. And so I think that I'm not worried until he has a bad season and then doesn't win the Super Bowl. Okay. I don't think we need to add you.

His ability to win the Super Bowl. Okay. I don't think we need to add you. His ability to win the Super Bowl remains intact. Kellerman called him a game manager the other day. Kellerman is seriously one of the guys in the Pacific that is like dug in a hole going, no, this thing's still on. And you're like, no. We don't do politics here. No, but he's got a tent.

His shirt's barely hanging on. He's eating a can of beans. Is he a prepper? Are you saying he's a doomsday prepper? No, he's not that. I'm saying he's like left over from the Korean War. They're just going, it's over. No, it's been over for a while.

Don't you see the telegrams? And he'd be like, no, get down. Get down. I don't think anyone's still fighting the korean war i've noticed a bonfire over there i don't know what was the pacific uh well that was world war ii wasn't it yeah yeah actually that was a big that was a biggie i'm screwing around there was a guy on an island i got a little gap in my korean war history there was a guy there was a guy on an island who didn't know world war ii ended until decades later

okay decades decades well that's kellerman on first take set about Brady. Okay. So there you go. By the way, lowest number of carries in six years for Brady. Just, you know, just file that one away. He lost his mobility. File that one away. Tom Brady mobility watch.

Do you guys want to guess? He just went over 1,000 yards last year for his career. Do you want to guess what his yards per carry is? Andy? Yeah, I would guess because he's got so many kneel downs and quarterback sneaks. I would guess it's, I bet it's under, I bet it's like 0.9 or something. Or you double it. Yeah, 1.7. Oh, okay. 1.7. 1.7. Hero Onada

surrendered in 1974. 1.7. Hero Onada surrendered in 1974. There you go. That's my Kellerman analogy. Perfect. Okay. If you could put any, this is a little surprise, bonus question for you.

Trade deadline wish any player on any team. I'll go first. A.J. Green, any big market. I'm not even talking a specific team, a specific quarterback. I wish A.J. Green were respected more, and he isn't because he plays in Cincinnati. This is not a shot at Zach Taylor. Deshaun Watson

behind an offensive line that doesn't count. I kid you not, Ryan. I have A.J. Green to a big market as well. That's exactly what I have. I liked the Amari Cooper trade last year. It was interesting how it impacted the Raiders but obviously especially the Cowboys I'd like to see what would happen if A.J. Green

were to join the team he's in a contract year so it'd be a rental deal if you don't see me in the NFL a whole lot once in a while so I'm with you on that one yeah I'm trying to think of were you just going to move to Sean Watson I was going to move to Sean Watson behind a really good offensive line behind a really good offensive line.

Behind a really good offensive line. Is that an anti-Bill O'Brien stance? It is. But now there's this thing that he's responsible for 14 of his own sacks. I don't know what to believe. I don't know. I've just had some people mention to me that Deshaun Watson holds onto the ball. There was one quarterback.

It may have been Carson Wentz, I think, when it was the MVP-type season, where then when you dug into how probable or how unlikely it was that he would repeat his red zone success, what he had done, you go, there's no way he's ever going to repeat that. I remember going, oh, maybe he's not going to be as good, and then he just got hurt again. Okay, a couple rapid-fire ones. First coach to be fired, Andy. I feel like I'm beating the same dead horse, but Jay Gruden. Jay Gruden, Matt Patricia, I want to throw in there. And then, are we sure? This is not sourced or anything like that. Are we sure Doug Marone wouldn't

fall on the sword if it was a big disaster? Yeah, he would be on deck in this conversation. Okay. Pat Mahomes. Now, we're waiting on this tyree kill stuff although he did tweet out in response like three throwing up emojis after the 40-yard dash chad johnson uh competition where it was like is he the guy that bought it on pay-per-view no he was he was i guess that was him throwing up at the idea that goodwin was the fastest player in the

nfl so hadn't tweeted in a while but good to know he's he's still paying attention to stuff that's I guess that was him throwing up at the idea that Goodwin was the fastest player in the NFL. So hadn't tweeted in a while, but good to know he's still paying attention to stuff that's going on. But without him, what is Mahomes? It'll be fascinating because everything they do on offense, let's say he is gone, Tyree Kill, everything they do is centered around him and Travis Kelsey. And I think Mahomes will still be the same because the arm talent's so extraordinary and he's only getting smarter as a QB and it's

a smart offense overall. But to a man almost around the NFL, coaches say Tyree Kill's the scariest player to go up against. You do not want to have to defend him. So you take that out of the equation, and it's potentially a whole different Chiefs offense.

Yeah, I agree. The offense changes. If anybody is going to engineer a good offense around Patrick Mahomes without Tyree Kill, it's going to be Andy Reid. So I'm not worried about that. Yeah, I think that's probably the safer answer with it. Andy's right on prep, but Mahomes is going to figure it out. He's not Zach Taylor.

Man. That's it. I'm banning anymore. He's not Jay Gruden. I'm banning anymore. I'm actually rooting for the Cincinnati Bengals now. Okay, final one. Is there any amount of money that you would bet on Jalen Hurts going number one overall

continuing this Lincoln-Riley run? Kevin, do you want to go? I think it's certainly possible. I think it's impossible. I don't know enough about it. I will say that I'm hearing, and this always happens. Here's the thing I can't tell anymore. A year out, every single number one

prospect gets completely dragged through the mud of the scouting community. Happens all the time. Used to happen. So Tua, it's going to start happening to him. Used to happen. I mean, I've already heard it. I've already heard it. And so it happened with, I mean, like the poster child for this is Brian Brom.

But then it became very real. And sometimes... Yeah, but he just actually wasn't good. Yeah, he's not good. No, but I'm saying that the scouting community dinged him so much, he just wasn't even a first overall pick. He wasn't a first round pick.

He was just a guy who went to the Packers. Did anyone, when he went up to Green Bay, were like, oh, this is going to work out? Well, I think that... Didn't one of the ESPN draft picks do that famously? Someone famous was like, Braum's going to beat out. Aaron Rodgers?

Yeah. We get the IT team on this now. So there's a, I'll just continue on to this. So, but you heard those weird doubts about Andrew Luck, who is one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. You hear all of these.

I just think scouts like to be scouts, and they like to criticize. So I've heard some negative stuff about Tua, but you also hear negative stuff about... When Carson Wentz was about to win the MVP, scouts were like, I'm not throwing motion. A scout told me that Lamar Jackson

wouldn't make the NFL. Okay. I think he's going to make the NFL. Lamar Jackson? No, I'm saying scouts are wrong. I'm just telling you there's a... There are bad scouts. There's a weird faith in Lamar Jackson

that I don't think is... I think it's just because it's new. And I think it was because it's exciting and all of these things. But I don't know. I feel like if Lamar played a full season or full two seasons like he played last year, there'd be more people going, I don't know. I feel like if Lamar played a full season or full two seasons like he played last year, there'd be more people going,

and I don't know about this. All right, Andy, do you have any more thoughts on that one? No, other than I agree with your sentiment on Lamar Jackson. That's all right. We've been over it. We're going to raise out on him. Can I – Merrill Hodge and Todd McShay said that Brian Braum had greater upside than Aaron Rodgers. I refuse to believe McShay said that Brian Braum had greater upside

than Aaron Rodgers. I refuse to believe McShay said that. I just found it. It's in a... I just found it. We're going to have to watch it later.

I'm going to have to watch it because sometimes, like, I saw this website do a thing to me where they got it from a fan page. It wasn't even their thing. They grabbed it

from a fan page that I got tagged on Instagram where they took about 40 seconds of my eight-minute Jared Goff segment and took the 40 seconds and made that because i was saying it feels unfair to label him a bust after just one year i hate doing this stuff but the way the preseason's gone it's looked terrible and then he goes on the stair so ultimately any instinct i had

about that was wrong but when they took out the 40 seconds and then made it a thing then it was like you guys you know what are we doing here I felt like I felt like the president okay guys that was terrific and uh take a deep breath all right because we get a couple weeks and we can hear all sorts of bogus headlines although my all time favorite

one I didn't get to was Daniel Jones asked about his Madden rating Madden ratings first came out and they go way overshot they, what do you... Hey, thanks, Vic Fangio. There we go. They go, what do you think it is? He goes, I don't know.

High 70s, low 80s. They're like 63. You're behind... You're actually behind Tyree Jackson, who's a 64. The weirdest part of that story, the guy who asked was trying to be Vic Fangio. Bringing it all back.

Okay, that'll do it for us. Check out Andy Benoit. Twitter handle, Andy? At Andy underscore Benoit. That makes sense. At, by Kevin Clark. All right, and speaking of, goodbye, everybody.

Dual Threat will be back at the beginning of the football season. We'll have a big preview, college football and all that stuff, so enjoy. Well, it's not like I'm disappearing. Enjoy the rest of the summer Thank you.