The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Bill Simmons and Todd McShay | Dual Threat With Ryen Russillo (Ep. 1)

Episode Date: August 29, 2018

In his debut Ringer podcast, Ryen Russillo is joined by Bill Simmons to discuss Tom Brady's phone interview, Jimmy G's trajectory, and Gruden's coaching return, plus Todd McShay talks NFL rookie QBs, Clemson's roster, and way-too-early playoff predictions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

what's going on week one or at least episode one of the ringers dual threat podcast i'm your host ryan rossillo and we'll be doing it all throughout the football season and that's kind of the plan for those that may not know uh i'll be doing these every week. We're going to try to line it up, not just after the NFL weekend, but sync it up with college football playoff rankings. And those come out on Tuesday nights. We're obviously not going to have those rankings until about like week eight of the season. But that's the plan because I love both sports and I'll be traveling for college football this fall as well as I try to figure out that schedule. But yeah, that's the schedule. I'll be doing this here at the Ringer. And then once football season is over, I'll

transition to co-hosting with Bill one day a week as we talk NBA for the next six months. And then we'll be like July 30th and we'll be a fifth year guy that's not tendered. And we go, okay, I think our work is done here. Bill is going to join me very shortly here on the podcast as we go through. I think as I try to work all the different ways

that I want to do it, I may just sort of have five topics, five theories, storylines, headlines that I want to get to right off the bat. So you know that we'll likely have a guest every single week and McShay is going to join us as well. And that's kind of a, you know, I'm just not going to be all ESPN guys or anything like that, but McShay is my man. He's a guy I've been best friends with for a really long time before I even started working at ESPN. And he's perfect for talking about the rookie QBs in the NFL and getting ready for the college football

season. So before we do that, considering McShay helped me get my job at ESPN 12, 13 years ago, hiring used to be hard. ZipRecruiter has a solution for you. Multiple job sites, stacks of resumes, a confusing review process. But today, hiring can be easy, and you only have to go to one place to get it done. ZipRecruiter.com slash Ryan. That's R-Y-E-N. Yes, I know. My parents did it. I was not involved in the naming of me. ZipRecruiter sends your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards, but they don't stop there. With their powerful matching technology, ZipRecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. As applications come in, ZipRecruiter analyzes

each one and spotlights the top candidates so you never miss a great match. ZipRecruiter is so effective that 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day. With results like that, it's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is the highest rated hiring site in America. And right now, my listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address. ZipRecruiter.com slash Ryan that's R-Y-E-N. ZipRecruiter.com slash Ryan.

ZipRecruiter.com slash Ryan. ZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire. Dodd McShay on the rookies in the NFL college ball. Bill Simmons right now. This is awkward because I'm in your office and I was waiting for you

and now I'm interviewing you sort of on my first podcast with the ringer. It's not an interview. I'm just setting some picks. Is that how you feel? Yeah. You tell me to run a sweep and i'll just block for you and knock down some d-backs all right best holders in the game top five uh i i think there's a little irony here and i think i already know now your answer because you know i think you and i both know brady's done that EEI interview forever on the morning show. Yeah.

And he hung up this week and I thought, okay, before I say anything, I want to hear it. So then I went and I listened to the whole thing. By the way, smart, because in the old days, maybe you just say something and then you didn't listen. People, you didn't actually. So you're getting all the facts. Okay. But how many times have you done done this is a whole nother topic

but there are times where i was prepping for the show i'd be like roy williams said what what a jerk i can't believe he said that i think there was one thing he said in the turn to me he's like look we don't have these guys we don't have barkley we don't have carl malone and everybody's like oh wow roy williams doesn't have these superstars yeah and he actually was complimenting his team but in print it sounded awful so he wrote out this whole segment screw Roy Williams segment and then somebody's like hey we got that audio you want to hear it before you do the show when you're younger you might be like nah yeah I already wrote out the segment but I listen I go huh all right we're gonna have to come up with another

topic at 15 because I can't do it so yeah, that's how many times like it happens all the time. Well, now we know because the Twitter mobs come right after you and make you feel like a dumbass. So you got, you have to go the extra step, which is good. It's a good place. So I listened and I think knowing what it's like to be a host, you're sort of prying a little, but you're, you're passively prying. And I i think it's a real thing like his trainer was part of this drama from last year guerrero we don't really know his deal i'm in the pliability thing not me specifically i don't see the point because as a pats fan i like how you've made this intentionally ambiguous without but i'm not that much of a pats fan anymore well you're from new england yeah your family cares about the Pats. People in your life care about the Pats.

Yeah. No? I don't know, man. I mean, once I got bounced for that pre-show thing. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, and it was like really, really uncalled for. Wow, so it actually made you not like the Pats. My father hates them.

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I had no idea. Yeah, he's like, they did my kid wrong. I forgot about this. You had this whole other life last decade. Right. Feuding with this. You had this whole other life last decade. Right. Feuding with people.

It was great. I'm so relaxed out here in LA. So my point was this, is that, is if you're Brady, like, I don't think you've been, I don't think you've been met now. Look, he hasn't done much to be messed with. I mean, unless you want to get into the whole deflategate stuff and all that stuff, right? But I thought it was kind of lame of him to hang up. And I thought that you were going to have his back like you always do.

What happened to you? I don't know why he does these interviews. I'm going to start there. I can't believe he still does them. Sometimes on Monday nights, I'll be driving during like either before the game or at halftime. And he's talking to Jim Gray on Westwood One. That Jim Gray one that he does? That one's even weirder.

And I'm like, why is he doing it? Like, are they paying him $100 million a year to do this? How is this worth it for him? He's got, not only has he made a crap load of money, but he's married to the supermodel who makes $40 million a year. They did the time versus time. They have like the biggest mansion in Brookline.

Why does he need to do this Jim Gray thing? I gotta tell you i could do a jim gray podcast well that's yeah maybe we leave that on the table but i don't understand why does he go in wei why does he do anything i the wei one i guess you could at least say like if he didn't know any better and they got him early and it was part of you know how those those interviews work back then it's like you actually get paid for those like i remember when we were at the zone we were trying to get guys in and damian woody would come in and ask him for seven copies of madden right and i'd be like come on dude like i can't give you all my video right but my point is tom brady can make money all these different ways right like he if he needs to make an extra 1.5 million, like, do a deal with Gatorade or Adidas or do some ad, and he could make that in one day.

He could go do two speaking engagements. Do you think it's because— What makes him want to reach out to the WEI audience? I don't understand. And it's huge for the station because it's literally the only audio that anyone would ever care about nationally. Like, once that thing is over, I mean, this isn't—it's not even a knock on them. It's like no espn is rarely going to be running anybody's local content from local radio but how many times has he broken news on

that how many times has something happened in an interview that became a thing i don't even know that it matters downside i think because he so rarely does anything that there's just audio and it's and it's good for ei it's good for good for them because it's iconed, it's up. You know what I mean? Whatever that's worth, we've got to get Ravel to calculate what that means in visual dollars. Let's not. All right. I love asking Ravel.

What's that in waffles though? What does that mean? I just don't understand what's in it for him and what's been in it for him the last 10 years. There's only downside. Do you think he thinks he's like connecting to the local like it's it's him not understanding that no one actually cares and that he's not really connecting what is in it for him because it can't be money because he can make money doing anything does he it does he think like this is a really important station and if i have this weekly thing they're going to treat me better than maybe they normally would this is his way like an end-around way of buttering everybody up.

Maybe, but I don't know. Like, does he need to butter up this fan base? Because he's amazing. That's what I don't understand why he needs to do this. It's not like learning about Jay Cutler. Like, Cutler used to do it at ESPN 1000 with Waddle and Sylvie. And I got to know those guys, and I like those dudes. And I'd'd say what's

what's cutler's deal and they go he kind of just is over it yeah and i go well is that really who he is and they go yeah like it's really who he is i go well that why does he come on they'd be like well because you know waddle played for the bears and you know he connects that way with him you know and i don't know do you know waddle yeah i think you'd know about him white receiver bc guy yeah he's a big chicago guy i get it if it's somebody like scalabrini where a guy on you're building something yeah it's like after i retire i want to do this but so anyway i agree with you that uh i listen i'm i'm a huge pats homer and i still think brady got just bamboozled with deflacate

I'll never understand how it played out the way it was but with this it's like the Guerrero things are fair questions this is somebody he's attached to the hip with he has a business with them he has this whole kind of performance thing that he's created with the dude and pliability and do a diet differently, all this stuff. And he's gotten other teammates in and then Edelman's involved with them. And then Edelman gets a PD suspension. Like that does feel newsworthy. I'm even as a Pat's home where I'm like, ah, I got to concede this does feel newsworthy. Yeah. That was kind of my point. Like you, you can't act as if, first of all all you're doing the interview for every week you've signed on to the whole thing and i actually applaud the host now as opposed to the host before that used to just i mean the thing is is what were you going to criticize him about

every monday be like all right tom no more pics you guys pulled it out and you know number one seat i mean the guy that's the thing is like i try to explain to people i can love something and also be critical of one part of it and that's pretty much where i'm at with him but yeah like the thing is weird i do think the pliability thing is funny that when he did that feature i think it was with the gandhi and sports center a year or so ago and he took his shirt off that people were like super bummed out and not impressed and you're like yeah but that's the pliability method right and. And whenever you have multiple trainers, like anybody that's ever hung out at a gym, every trainer thinks every other trainer sucks. They're like, oh, dude, close grip.

So when you have a guy like that around a pro football team, like the other trainers are going to think he sucks and he's going to think everybody else sucks. You're inviting. I mean, you're serious. It's like polygamy. Yeah. you're just inviting some sort of problem unless that works out for you so i don't i don't know i i don't understand why he was so upset about it and it made me think that like his threshold for this is annoying is like you think that was bad that wasn't bad he's definitely you could feel it last year he started to be a little strange yeah what's going on there?

Strange. Like that, not in a harmful way, not in like a Michael Jackson, like all of a sudden adopting giraffes and shit like that kind of way, but just kind of weird. Like, I don't think he would have done time versus time five years ago. I don't think he would have said stuff like,

I can't get whatever the thing about concussions. I do that. I won't get concut you won't get concussions or you're way less prone to get concussions if you do this and um but on the other hand like he's been in my life now since 2000 and he's like a family member and it's like people in your life get weird you know like my dad's fucking getting weird he's 70 uh my uncles get weird and people in your life just get older like i've known you for a while you've gotten weird i've probably gotten weird to you and it's like it's part of the package with brady he's 41 he's fucking getting weird okay i think we got it how is that for a defense

no i i'm i'm surprised that you well actually no i'm not surprised because you have common sense and when you hear the audio you're like what, what? Like, you're upset about this? I don't know. It's just for him to think that he's going to do the interview every week and they're not going to ask about Alex Guerrero seems naive to me. And he's not a naive guy. He's super smart. He knows that's coming.

Yeah. But Tom Curran wrote a really good piece about it, though. Curran's great. Saying basically, like, this is the new Tom Brady. He doesn't care anymore. He realizes, like, he's not trying to pretend to be something he's not. If he doesn't like questions, he is the new Tom Brady. He doesn't care anymore. He realizes like he's not trying to pretend to be something he's not. If he doesn't like questions, he's not going to answer.

He doesn't get, he's almost like that old Seinfeld bit about when people get old, they just back out of the driveway. He's like, I'm just backing up. Fuck it. Yeah. My dad started smoking cigars because he travels now. And he like, my brother's, you know, married

and his wife's pregnant and he just started lighting up smokes and cigar didn't care yeah and people were like hey dude what are you doing and then he backed out of the driveway right and he was mad somebody hit him all right i've got i want to do this thing that i'm going to do kind of like newsworthy on the nfl stuff make sure as i mentioned is going to join us as we do kind of a rookie qb transition to some college ball and that's the dual threat every week. But here's something I've been thinking a lot about. Are we really all okay with Jimmy Garoppolo being, at the time when he was signed, the highest paid player in NFL history, the highest average annual salary,

the guaranteed money's a little bit less. He's since been surpassed with Ryan's extension. But here's the deal. Five starts against the Bears who stunk and Mitch Trubisky. The Texans who played Yates and Tom Savage. Nine and seven Titans beat Mariota. He was terrific against the Jags, beat Bortles. 11 and five Rams, they beat them. But it was Sean Mannion and no girly in that game.

And when I read the piece, a great piece by Robert Mays. Yeah. And like there's so many great things in there. But but you also can be like, wait a minute, what? Can you throw like five picks? His actual touchdown to pick ratio isn't great. If you go through the seven starts, he's probably lit it up like four games, and that's fine. But the schedule, it was like one,

maybe one and a half good teams. And then the front office for San Francisco says, we went right into it very aggressive and told them we wouldn't use the franchise tag. It's like, okay, so then you've already disarmed yourself with something that you could use in negotiation.

And then you paid him the highest average annual salary after five to seven starts. I think Vegas has him as like the sixth best odds for MVP of the season. I saw that. I was shocked. Like, am I the only sane person here that is like, I don't,

I don't, I feel like this whole thing could have been handled differently and the hype is too much for Garoppolo. You made a great case. Can I make a counter? Yeah. I actually watched those games and wagered on them because I really thought Jimmy G was going to do great.

So I watched those Niners games. So you feel good because you were in early on the position. I was super in early. Listen, I've been wrong a million times. I'm very proud of how I benefited financially from the jimmy g era in san francisco and i watched those games his supporting cast was awful the amount of drops that he had in like plays where just somebody screwed up where he made the right play and something bad not great weapons um it was kind of staggering that they won with how bad everybody

else was and I felt like his stats actually should have been a lot better he had a couple games that were monstrous I was shocked by how consistently

really good he was and really had no weapons didn't have a great offensive line and I'm a believer the only thing that

worried me was the stuff about comparing himself to Vince from Entourage it was a fucking huge red flag nobody likes Entourage that much come on nobody likes vince that nobody like vince there's no like vince fans people like the show but nobody's like you know how i fucking miss vince i like how

anybody that has that run it's like a rule in this city we're like we're gonna give him two movies we'll give him two movies he's gonna be the two movies. He's going to be the main guy. Right. If Grenier shows up in the second one, it's the same fucking guy's entourage, then like, sorry. He's in Devil Wears Prada. He's like a chef. He's like Vince is a chef.

Yeah, he's a chef. Yeah. You just keep looking around for Turtle. But yeah, that was the only red flag for me was that he, in almost like a bragging way, was like, yeah, we're like Vince and in a almost like a bragging way was like yeah we're it's we're like vince and my buddies are like the other guys in entourage just like that's not a good thing to say yeah that sounded dumb and then there was that weird instagram post where we

couldn't figure out if he was off the pats and i didn't think that was anything more than like probably your buddies being stupid with your instagram account not realizing that you're going to be headline news the whole time i I forget who it was that I worked with, but I think somebody I worked with actually said that proves he's not a leader. I would invest in him. I'm not going that far. I just thought the whole premise of we have to pay him more than anyone else ever at the position after five starts with us seemed to be a lot.

But even Lynch said in the piece, he said like they wanted all this credit for front loading it. So they'd have cap space off it later. So it's 37 million in the first year. Yeah they wanted all this credit for front loading it so they have cap space off it later so it's 37 million in the first year yeah and lynch is like yeah we're really smart with the way we front load these and you're like it's not really that hard of a concept to understand you put more money in the beginning so that there's less money later on jake laser was on my pod two years ago and told this story about how john lynch had 37 my ties so every time john lyn Lynch says anything about football,

I always go back to the 37 Mai Tais story. I'd be like, that guy's- Does Glazer think that's an accurate number? No, he counted. He was adamant that that was the story. It was 37 Mai Tais. Yeah. It's like the Wade Boggs 100 beers.

Who knows? I think Wade, I believe 100 beers before I believe 37 Mai T about jimmy g yeah they're getting some buzz and i've noticed like uh there's there's every year this happens in the nfl there's the teams that get hyped who haven't done jack shit and in august it's like oh watch out for the oh these guys might actually make and it's always the worst possible thing that could happen to the team but there's one team out there that this is happening to now,

and I feel like it's going to single-handedly cripple them. Have you noticed? It's one team. It's one team. That everybody's on. It's getting just a staggering, incredible amount of, these guys could make the Super Bowl. You know who's really good?

These guys. The odds reflect it. The fantasy, like the San Diego now LA Chargers. Yeah, I've seen that. Like we had a piece on the ringer Danny Heifetz wrote today about the hype train. I feel like everybody's picking them to win the division. They have. I saw some fantasy defense list.

They were the fourth highest defense out of all the fantasy things. Well, Ingram and Bosa are monsters. So, I mean, at least from a roster standpoint. But I like the fact that we see this with football where people go, you know, they had bad luck in close games. You go back last year in the kicker, it's like, yeah, but I watched those games. Like they weren't well coached. They did dumb things.

They have the same coach they had last year. Every game, a lot of the same players. It looked like Rivers was going to die at the end. Yeah, Rivers I think is really erratic in some of these close ones and makes a dumb play at a bad time. And I've just not sold on the coach at all. They're going to make the Super Bowl? That sounds crazy.

But that's always what's so hard though. Like when you look at the AFC, and I was doing this last night, where I went like seven to eight NFC teams deep, where it feels like a more exaggerated version of Western Eastern Conference in the NBA because after New England and Pittsburgh, who do you really get excited about? Am I supposed to be excited about Jacksonville again who had zero injury games basically?

They've had one of the healthiest rosters we've ever seen over a full season. I don't know what to make of Bortles. I hope it kind of works out for him. He seems like a nice enough guy, um i don't know what to make of bordles like i hope it kind of works out for him he seems like a nice enough guy but i don't have a ton of trust there and then when it comes back down to like what's wrong with tennessee why are people not inspired by them and i feel like everybody liked them last year like your chargers take is what it was all about with the titans last year well but they changed their coach though yeah their secondary

their corners are good they They're deep at corner. I think Mariota's okay. I don't think he's like special. I think Mike Vrabel's going to be a good coach. And it's funny. I think he's a much better bet than Matt Patricia, who I was really never that impressed with and I think has the potential to be a disaster in Detroit.

Whereas like Vrabel- He's a rocket scientist. I know. I'm so tired of hearing how smart he is. He was so smart. We fucking bench bench Malcolm Butler. But I always try to look for like the team. Like last year I had the Rams.

I'm very proud to say like the Rams were my team last year. And the biggest reason was Jeff Fisher to Todd McVay. Plus they had a lot of blue chip. And even Sean is thought to be pretty good. Yeah. Sean McVay. Who did I say? Todd? Yeah. Well, he's coming up later. Yeah. Todd McVay is they had a lot of blue and even Sean it's thought to be pretty good yeah Sean McVay who did I say Todd yeah well he's coming up later yeah Todd McVay is coming if I could get Sean McVay in the podcast Sean McVay and Todd McShane's son like a real quick thing though like and I'm

obsessed with asking like football people that have covered the league for years and years yeah how is it that only Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay can dial up an offense now like how how is it that there's two people in the world they're like, ah, there's those two guys. What about McDaniels? There's three. Yeah. Can I go to McDaniels? Wait, can I go back to my Rams point?

Yes, please do. I think it's weird that there's two people in the world that apparently can do it. Mediocre coach to potentially a really good coach, a culture changer. Nobody liked the Titans coach. He won a playoff game and still got fired. Nobody was a fan.

I think if Ray was good, could that be where two wins, three wins, could that be the difference between being like a nine and seven range team to if the Jags take a step back, I'm not sold on Andrew Luck at all. It's so funny hearing people talk about Andrew Luck. Like, look, if he's healthy, he's a top 10 QB.

It's like, yeah, exactly. If he's healthy. We have no idea if he's healthy he's a top 10 QB it's like yeah exactly if he's healthy right he doesn't know if he's gonna be healthy he didn't look great uh in the preseason at all which is like because I'm a huge Andrew Luck guy but I think it might be based on the division then because I don't know what to do with Jacksonville we expect the defense to be really good we don't know what to do with Bortles um I still don't really know that I love their weapons and even they have taken a hit. Tennessee, I'm kind of on, even though I like the secondary. And then Houston and Deshaun Watson, like as great as Deshaun was last year,

and he was over that stretch, he was incredible. Really fun to watch. And for a guy that actually threw a lot of picks, still statistically, like some of the games that he had were off the charts. But there'd be games and throws where I'd go, is this all just sort of working out, or is he going to be able to do this all the time because to be long-term successful like i almost wonder if there's a deshaun watson correction coming in the second year and i don't think it'll have anything to do with his health or the injury

came off a major knee injury which seems like an issue and they have like one of the three or four worst offensive lines in either conference. Early, I was like, oh, Houston, Watson will be back. I'm completely out. I'm on the other way now. But my question is, who is the team we're not going to see coming? Because we always hear the sleeper, sleeper, sleeper. And it's always somebody nobody saw coming, which was part of the case for the Rams last year.

Who is that team? That's the one I still haven't figured out yet because it's going to be somebody like the Jets. It just is. It's going to be like somebody's going to go 10 and 6 and we're not going to know what the F's are. What about Denver? So I was looking at them too. I don't like the coach,

but they have a lot of the other things you would want, right? If Keenum is much better than all the crappy quarterbacks they had last year. I mean, they had a stretch of some of the worst quarterback play in the history of this league. It was awful. And so when people look at their defense taking a step back, my argument was always that defense halfway through the season is pointless. Who's the running back they got in the third round? My man, Rolls Royce, Freeman.

So if he's good and Keenum's good, because their running backs weren't good last year either. That was the other thing. Everyone was, you know, they- Dude, and to have Bradley Chubb to pair with Vaughn Miller. And if Keenum, I think Keenum just has to be like slightly above average and maybe they win the division. And what does Emmanuel Sanders do with Keenum? He feels fantasy sleepery to me. I'm with you. I denver it's gonna have to take the chargers or the chiefs to stumble a little i would bet more on the chargers i for some reason i have like stockholmson with the chiefs now i just assume like oh yeah pat mahomes it'll be fine they'll go 11 and 5 like i there's no rationalization anymore yeah they're like the team they always

pencil in for more wins than you expect without any fear whatsoever they're like the team that you always pencil in for more wins than you expect without any fear whatsoever it's like they're like the popovich spurs for where he's like i don't i have no idea but i know they're gonna win 48 games but see i think one of the crazy things about the mahomes throw in the preseason the hill that everybody freaked out about it was great it was great but he's gonna do that a lot and screw it up yeah like that's who he was at tech like it's it's these massive throws that you go, I don't know where that one's going. But if you're a chiefs fan and you just sat through this, like kind of successfully unsatisfying Alex Smith era.

Yeah. Third and seven. I'll take a sack. Yeah. Or like I'm a roll out and here's scream. Like to have this guy who's bringing out the fucking bazooka every once in a while. He's so excited. Oh my God. Whoa. that thing went 80 yards.

Are you allowed to throw it that far? Oh! You know what? We didn't even mention the Raiders yet. Gruden is destroying the front office that he inherited. Yeah. Like, did you see the quote that he had the other day where he's like, well, we got nothing out of the 13 draft and 14, 15, and 16.

There's nothing. And it's like, Khalil Mack, that was my favorite. Like, the Raiders were kind of one of these teams that we're talking about a little bit. Like last year, a lot of people like Raiders, Carr, MVP.

That's, that's, there's your Super Bowl team. And I, it was funny because when we were doing the radio show, I'd always go, their defense stunk in 16. And we're just assuming,

because like it's, it's just this natural progression where we go, well, Carr's really good. He's going to be solid. They added another receiver. You know, the Marshaand thing was super overrated. People penciled them into the AFC West.

Totally. And it was like, well, easy schedule last year. They had that crazy game where they went for the 2.1, and they easily could have gone 8-8. No one could ever name anybody else on the defense. They'd be like, oh, Khalil Mack and those guys. And that became our joke. So I kept asking every analyst, I'd be like,

what do you think about their defense? They'd be like, oh, Khalil Mac off the edge. And you know, they got some pieces. You don't want to get ever named the other guys. No, like even guys that were covering it. And so I was like, that's a sign. That's a sign where like seven analysts in a row haven't named one other defensive player besides Khalil Mac. So. Well, what about the fact that John Gruden was in a TV booth for 12 years? He did as much football coaching the last 12 years as you and I did. Although I do love that he was annoyed with Marquette King, the punter, and had mentioned that during games. It was like the first order of business.

He's like, let's get this showboat punter the hell out of here. Yeah, you showed him that showboat punter. This is a big old difference. I think he's going to be a disaster. The one thing I've learned over the years with football picks is you got to go all in on like nine things, whether it's like, I think the Rams are going to make the playoffs or I think Pat Mahomes is going to be good right away. You just got to dive in. And one of my dive-ins I think this year is going to be, I think he's going to be terrible. I think there's no evidence. He wasn't even really a good coach in Tampa after

that first year. He hasn't been a successful coach for 15 years. And also, I wasn't impressed listening to him on Monday Night Football games. I thought he was like the master of the cliche. I never heard real insight from him. I do think he got better. I thought in the beginning he was- Yeah, I thought he got better. So you went from a D- to a C-?

No, I don't think he was ever that. I thought it took- You're going to miss him? Ooh, our first third rail ESPN topic. I know. He's not there anymore. You can say whatever you want. No, it's not even that.

Like I was afraid- Can I answer for you? Hey, by the way, when he was there- I'm not going to miss him. When he was there, I started getting a little annoyed with his whole flirtation with everybody else. Like that's the thing that used to bother me, is that he, I think, was paid more than anybody else on air at ESPN. i think it's almost a fact i think he had the highest salary in the

history of espn right and he would get a raise every time there would be some flirtation with another job and he loved it he loved it and then he like went on in our seattle affiliate and for without any prompting whatsoever was like ah that rocky top love that song knoxville tennessee and the two hosts were like what he's and he just started like talking about because tennessee was you know every year the vols were gonna hire him and i'm like you know dude you can't like if you do that and you're just screwing with an entire sec fan base and like i get maybe you get a raise every time you do it which probably should have stopped happening um i don't know that bummed me out more than anything that he may or may not have been as an announcer i'm not gonna miss him but do you feel that way learn anything from the games

but how many guys how many guys do you do you turn into any broadcast now because of an announcer no but what i want is at least a modicum of keep me interested don't just speak in cliches be fair but my new pet peeve is when the people go all in on the officials but won't ever criticize a coach it's like if you're gonna criticize people in the game be an equal opportunity criticizer you can't just no that's yeah like i love but he'll never say the better coach ever is but every ref is like he'll dissect to the bitter end every coach has gotten screwed and i'm like come on man with coaches and qbs would never say anything about either of them and it's like i'm sorry

but when you're watching football those are the two most important people in the field the coach of the qb and if you're not going to criticize their decisions why are you there well that was like that peyton manning year when they actually ended up winning the whole thing god and he just wasn't good that year but every announcer because everybody likes Peyton yeah he's a good hang he's like no how right watch what Peyton does here he just he sees this guy but like I remember I did this I went crazy it ended up being one of those things that actually like people picked up on like Collinsworth would be like you know it'd be third and seven he hit somebody in a nine yard out and he'd be like shoulder issues and I'd be like what do you mean dude he's throwing pop-ups 13 yards right like yes like his numbers are terrible he is not the same guy physically it is okay so you can't do like you know who else used to do

that all the time is the Celtics broadcast to do that on rondo like rondo would hit a jumper and they'd be like people say he can't shoot like because he can't yeah like it's okay that's why they played seven feet off him that's why kobe in the finals played center defensively so yeah there's a did i ever tell you that payton's wife like saw me at a party, grabbed me. I thought this is going to turn into like a threesome story. I got scared for a second. No, not this kind of podcast. And she pulled me aside and she's like, you're Ryan.

You're that NBA guy. And I was like, oh yeah, what's up? How are you? She's like, I'm Peyton Manning's wife. And I was like, oh, no way. That's great. She's really nice. I've met her too. She's so nice. And she's like, I'm Peyton Manning's wife. And I was like, oh, no way. That's great. Oh, she's really nice. I've met her too.

She's so nice. And she's like, you got to come over and say hi to Peyton. And it was after he'd hosted the ESPYs. So it was two summers ago. And we're all out here in LA for the show. And she comes over and Peyton's like, hey, how's it going? He didn't care. And he had this big goon who was sitting next to him.

And his job was to stare at you to tell you basically like don't hang out it's time and i had just gotten there so it wasn't like i know the versions of like you can be standing a place you're not supposed to be standing because you think you're supposed to be standing there and i was like fully aware of like what was going on and i'm going all right this guy doesn't want me here and that's fine and i was like hey nice to meet you thanks so much good job tonight the sb says actually that he did a better job than people you know i don't know if he was going to be good or not and it's a tough gig anyway and then his wife's like he made fun of you ripped you said you sucked all year on his radio show and i was like oh sweet really and he's like well you know hey and the guy weird it sucked it sucked and i was like oh really i was like you

brought me over here to say hi i didn't know this was an ambush and then luckily she switched it enough at the end she's like really it was more danny cannell he shit on you a lot more and he's like well danny you know hey he's a bronco. He got ambushed by Peyton Manning's wife. I think one of my favorite memories of the canal pairing was when we were at a Super Bowl party in San Francisco when Peyton was there. And Elway came over and said to Danny, he's like, well, you know, you're always part of the Bronco family. And I started laughing. What were the other things on the list? Oh, sorry garoppolo we did garoppolo we did a little by the way my last point on garoppolo is i have no context of any of these nfl salaries

and the cap is going to go up it's not like basketball where it's like demar de rosa makes 28 million dollars this year or whatever yeah i know what that means i can compare that against everybody. With the football, it's like, all right, so that's the first year thing, but then if it's spread out and then they can renegotiate it. I had just an Eagles thought.

Yeah. Everybody tries to do something different, something provocative, and now the new thing is Doug Peterson went through it with Green Bay where they were trying to come back when he was I think the backup yeah and they lost what the QB coach they lost the OC but they had coaches in place to promote from within the Wentz injury feels more significant and we just sort of penciled them in and that they'll be fine but

like the Foles thing is a fluke the Foles run is a fluke and I remember going back and forth when I was trying to figure out how to pick the Super bowl i'm going am i really going to pick nick foals against bill belichick like that seems stupid i'm not going to do that and i ended up being wrong okay but we've seen fluky runs to super bowls before with quarterbacks who've never been the guy that they showed us for say three or four weeks because even foals run isn't as great as flacos run um flacos run is still the greatest run in the history of football. It's unassailably the best. It doesn't make...

It'd be like... I'm trying to think of a good comp here. It can't happen in basketball. No, it can't. But I'm trying to think of what it would be. It would be like some random starter just going 7-0 in the postseason. It'd be like Sean Marion just getting 40 a game and leading the suns do a title i mean you know what i mean i'm like trying to think of somebody that's established

in basketball right it can actually but i feel like the eagles have enough talent to do it they're getting other guys back that they hadn't had their defensive line looks to be terrific you know there was a couple it feels like their weapons aren't exactly what you want it to be, but still. Why? So you're saying why not the Eagles? Yeah. Why not to, why don't like the Eagles feel like,

cause it's their one Superbowl in team history that people are like, ah, yep. They partied a lot and you know, they'll be done. They're not going to be as focused. Right. Well, if you look at it the other way,

if Atlanta doesn't screw up that goal line, you know, four downs inside the five or whatever, and they just take care of business in that game. Maybe the Eagles were meant to win this year. And last year, even before Wentz got hurt, I don't think people were kind of locked into the Eagles in the Super Bowl. They were a contender, but it felt like that was like their breakout year. And then maybe this year was going to be the year. And then all of a sudden everything happens, they win the Super Bowl. But that doesn't mean that this year still going to be the year and then all of a sudden everything happens they win the super bowl but that doesn't mean that this year still can't be

the year that where they're actually better than they were last year i i've seen that people are short in them i know i saw francesa that is over under state eagles under 10 what's your deal with francesa well it's he's family yeah i'm not knocking it i've just i've always meant to ask you that probably off the air okay we'll talk about it off the air. All right. I don't like their division at all. I think Dallas sucks. I think the Giants, they're basically,

they put all the eggs into the Eli basket. We have no idea what that looks like. I do like their receivers though. Washington, Jay Gruden, Alex Smith. I don't know, maybe. Joe House is optimistic with Washington. But I think Philly by far is the best team in that division. For them not to win that division,

I would think something really bad would happen. I'd feel better about Dallas if I knew the offensive line was going to look like it was two years ago. But that thing towards the end of this preseason, I'm going my way. I'm going the other way. Another guy's hurt. I like Dak. Yeah?

I do. I think Dak. Yeah? I do. I think his second year was judged against an almost flawless rookie year in an impossible situation. You're stepping in for Romo. You were the third string guy, and then it worked out. I mean, his numbers. Go back and look at that. He was unbelievable, and he kept getting better and better.

He's making big plays. Last year, yeah, he regressed in a lot of the different numbers, but I feel like people are already over dac all of a sudden like dac doesn't get talked about enough as this next group of young qbs like he's an afterthought now in his third year and that doesn't seem yeah you seem over i'm done so you would take like garoppolo yes wentz yeah deshaun yeah josh allen uh who would you take luck or dac oh for the next three years i'm terrified of luck's injury you really are i really am i don't like when people miss that much time when you i feel the same thing with kawaii like kawaii is now not will have played basketball

for like 21 months it just makes me nervous yeah but i think that's different i don't think luck said i don't like anybody and I don't think luck said, I don't like anybody and I don't like my coach. I'm not going to play for a year. But luck has, if he lands on that shoulder again, although maybe with this new role,

nobody will ever land on a shoulder again as we continue to just ruin football. Thanks a lot, man, for hanging out on the first one. It was great, thanks. And I can't wait to get this thing going. Yeah, good luck, man. All right.

Okay, McShay's going to be coming up. We're going to be talking college ball, but also the NFL Rookie QBs and all that stuff. But I want to remind everybody, when you're on the road trying to go to NFL games, I'll be going to a bunch of college ones, and if I can't get on the sideline, because I'm trying to think who denied me could be on the sideline. Oklahoma once. But that was fair. There's almost no room

there. We got kicked out of the Dallas Cowboys. The first ever game in AT&T Stadium. It was actually BYU-Oklahoma. It was not a Cowboys game. And we were there. I think Bradford got hurt. Landry Jones came in. Okay, this is boring. levels of reliability. It's hard to know who to trust. That's why SeatGeek is the way to go. SeatGeek pulls millions of tickets into one place so you can easily find the seats you want for a price you're willing to pay. There's nothing quite like being there in person and SeatGeek will get you closer to the action for a great value. SeatGeek is designed to make your ticket buying experience easier than ever by searching multiple ticket sites and grading every ticket based on value. So there you go. You're like, wait a minute, are these good seats? Well, SeatGeek is going to tell

you everything you need to know, even if you don't even know the stadium, arena, field, whatever. SeatGeek helps you immediately identify the best seats that fit your budget. Plus, every purchase is fully guaranteed. So you can shop for tickets on SeatGeek with confidence. I actually do have the SeatGeek app as I get ready for this season. It's on my phone. It's by far the easiest way I've found to shop for tickets. I actually just use SeatGeek to buy tickets to USC, Texas, which I'll be going to Austin for very shortly, although I waited too long to get my flight and I regret it, but that's a different app. Best of all, my listeners get $20 off their first SeatGeek purchase. So if you're close on getting tickets to something anyway,

why don't you just get 20 bucks off and use the SeatGeek app? Just download it. Enter the promo code Ryan, that's R-Y-E-N, promo code Ryan, R-Y-E-N, for $20 off your first SeatGeek purchase. SeatGeek, life's an event. We have the tickets. Okay, my first one, I wanted to bring in the guy that I've known a long time.

Yes, we were friends. We were on the road for a few years, and he actually got me my job back at ESPN. But now here on The Ringer, the dual threat college football with Todd McShay. But Todd, before we go through all the NFL stuff or all the college football stuff, I did want to start with a little NFL thing because you had talked about this quarterback class well over a year in advance, saying that it could be thought of as one of the special ones when we started the season off you go you know there's three guys and then you don't even know what to do with Josh Allen and then Baker ends up going number one what kind of level of interest do you have just even in the preseason

knowing how many months you've spent watching tape of these guys it's a good question. I've been more dialed in to preseason football in the NFL this year than probably ever before. And a lot of it is just because I want to keep up and I always try to keep up. But there's some parts of it, especially second half of game three, just like, what am I watching this for? You've been there right really been yeah like what am i doing talk about a waste of time um but i i'm just so interested in seeing how these guys are playing josh allen playing a little bit more in part because of injury uh than than expected we've seen you know lamar jackson kind of up and down josh rosen played well early then has a thumb injury, so he didn't play week three. They don't expect him, I don't think, to play week four, as of what I recently read. And Sam Darnold's had a really good camp,

and it looks like he's going to probably be the only one of the first-round quarterbacks, five first-rounders, four in the top ten, that winds up as a week one starter for the Jets. We'll see. Baker Mayfield, it looks like they've always contended that they wanted to sit him and we'll see at some point. I assume we're going to see him during the season, but I don't think it's going to be week one unless there's

an injury. Was there anything with the Allen thing? Because I think he was the most, well, the Baker story actually ended up becoming pretty interesting because nobody thought he was going to go ahead at Darnold or maybe even Rosen. And then it comes out that way. A year ago at this time, it was Rosen, Darnold, Josh Allen, with Lamar Jackson and Baker kind of off in the distance a little bit. I had a late second round grade on Baker going into last year.

And then he all of a sudden decided to be less Johnny Manziel and more Russell Wilson, which really we started to see after the Iowa state loss, that must've been a, a coaching emphasis to stay in the pocket, take seven yard gains when you can get them. Not every play has to be 45 yards down the field. That's what I meant with Manziel,

not nothing off the field, just the on the field comparison. And, and he just started to look like a pro quarterback going through progressions and doing all the little things that you need a quarterback to do at the next level to be successful. And I think

his stock continued to rise, and then he became a first half of the first round guy, and then Cleveland with John Dorsey fell in love with him and made him the number one overall pick. You're talking about a couple rounds that he really improved his stock, at least in my opinion, over his last year, his senior year back in 2017. Okay, so you just brought up something, and we've always joked about this,

because everybody thinks you're an idiot, right? Like you're a draft guy, so you're just stupid. And I don't think that. You could be my best friend and I wouldn't have you on all the time if I thought you were terrible at this stuff but you're great at it you really are and I've always contended to anybody you know friends or people that I've gotten in arguments with it just always

think and not you but every draft guy is just a moron and they go well how do you have a second round grade on Baker and then he ends up being the first pick and as you just pointed out like there was a change in approach that weird Iowa State loss where you're like oh my god you know and then Iowa state becomes this team with Matt Campbell where people start going like, you know, look what they're doing here. But, um, is, was it that clear? Like, was it that clear where you're watching him in the version of tape where you're going, oh yeah, this now is a, I mean, is it a, is it a top grade, or is it the quarterback position being emphasized? It just seems to be, in basketball, there would never, ever be a guy that would go from a second rounder to a top five pick, and yet it happens with Baker.

So I guess I'm asking you to explain in even more detail what it is as a draft, as an evaluator guy, if you were in a front office, what you see as such a drastic change, to start thinking of him as that kind of pick. Well, there's a process to it all, right? So last year, I watched three or four game tapes on him and all the quarterbacks in May and June just to get ready for the season. And so that's where I come up with the later second-round grade. Now, I don't get to know Baker Mayfield, the human being, like I got to know him until September, October, November,

and then part of the pre-draft process because I'm doing live games, meeting with him, but more importantly, meeting with everyone around him. And so there's that aspect of it. And it's the same for NFL teams too because scouts are out there and they're putting together kind of an initial list, but then they're seeing him throw live, which, by the way, he's one of the one of the guys and it's hard to explain it but some guys pop on tape in terms of their arm strength and

ability to fit balls into spots other guys you can't tell their arm strength based on the tape and you want to see him throw live and when i saw him throw live for the first time last year i wasn't west virginia i think it was a little earlier in the season but west virginia was another game that he played in and i met in the rose bowl as well you can just you just see on the field when you're watching him live that he has a a much stronger arm than you kind of get the perception of when you're watching him on tape for whatever reason it just sometimes that happens um so you start to talk about the arm the the leadership, and everything that comes with Baker.

And then the third aspect that I touched on is that he started to play more like a pro-style quarterback, so it's easier to evaluate that aspect of it. And, you know, listen, John Dorsey, maybe the first time you watched a single game of him, you thought he was the best quarterback in the group. I don't know. And we'll never really honestly know. But I know a lot of guys in the league, well-respected scouts in the league

that do this every year, scouting a position group, scouting a region, first of all, that had him in the second, third round range. And they started to see a change in him and started to get to know him, the person, more and just kind of fell in love

with him so it it happens there are different reasons and in this case those are really the three key reasons that jump out to me all right i want to ask you one more question about the rookies and then transition into college ball here but the josh allen one is another example like if he doesn't work out then everyone's going to go you guys are idiots like why would you guys fall for this again he's at wyoming he can't complete any passes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was, I thought a complete drop off from the talent that he had two years ago to what he had this past year. And yes, it did look ugly. Um, and even some of the preseason stuff, like he looked like he was dropping back tech mobile style where you just keep going backwards and then you fling it and

it doesn't work in the NFL as well. And just doesn't the video game. Um, and then it looked good again. And then it looked good again. And then it's like, wait a minute. You know, that's the whole thing. Like, if you like Josh Allen, then you bang on that. Like, the same thing with Lamar Jackson. Lamar wasn't very good, wasn't very good,

played against the twos, and then had a good game. And then everybody that was a Lamar Jackson stance starts saying, oh, you guys. So, like, the Josh Allen one, like, it is more complicated than everybody just saying NFL people are morons for drafting the kid out of Wyoming that had a bad completion percentage, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. I had him very high early on last year, and the grade didn't really change that much. He lost four guys that wound up doing something and being on NFL rosters from the offensive Wyoming. Wyoming's not Alabama. They don't, they don't just reload and bring in four new players. They're going to wind up being NFL talents on one side of the ball.

So the huge drop off in talent, they were playing Oregon, was it Oregon and Iowa? Yeah. Yeah. Iowa, Iowa and Oregon were the only two times you saw Josh Allen on any kind of television nationally. For really the first two months of the season, I think there was a night Boise State game. There was that weird snow game, and then there was some weird CBS coverage, if you really were looking for it. But yeah, you're right. Right, but how many people are really looking for Josh Allen in Wyoming? Living with Sarf for a decade.

really looking for Josh Allen in Wyoming, you know? Little S. Arthur for a decade. Anytime you saw him, he was up against, it just wasn't. It was ugly. It was bad. And it was ugly. But it would be ugly if a lot of really good quarterbacks in the league went and played with that supporting cast. Ben Roethlisberger had a really bad game against Iowa years ago

in his only national game at Miami, Ohio. And you have to kind of keep all the factors in there. I also think, too, I'm covering a lot of Pat Mahomes this summer doing the preseason games for the Chiefs. And these young guys with a lot of talent, it's not going to be Brady. It's not going to be Breeze. It's not going to be Breeze. It's not going to be as efficient. It's almost like Major League Baseball today.

That's probably the best example. It's like you can go two for five in a game, but hit two home runs and strike out the other three times. And that's a good game in today's game. No one's bunting. No one's moving guys over to playing situational baseball. It's either a home run or a strikeout. And so I think with these young guys, it's a little bit like that where you're, yes, they're making a lot more mistakes than you're used to seeing from the

Breezes, the Rogers, the Bradys and the elite, but they have a home run ability about their game that is different in a lot of respects to any of the other young guys that are coming in. And it kind of makes up for some of those sins, if you will. Yeah, that's an interesting way of putting it. Because I think the Mahomes thing, and we were talking with Simmons about this earlier, is like everybody freaked out on social media when he hit Hill with that throw that was like 65 yards on a dime. And I go, yeah, but if you watch him at Tech, like there's a lot of those throws. And you're going, what the hell is he doing?

And that's the reason. I mean, you know, and I don't know if it's going to, but like you're not at tech, like there's a lot of those throws and you're going, what the hell is he doing? And that's, that's the, that's the reason. I mean, you know, and I don't know if it's going to, but like you were, you're not gonna be able to like the home run strikeout analogy I get,

but like, you can't be throwing hail Marys into picks all the time. And that's actually how they played at tech. It was crazy. Right. And that's what made him such a difficult evaluation, but knowing the situation he's in and that he's with one of the handful

of places that really, really know how to develop a quarterback. And then you add the fact that you could argue, I mean, maybe the Saints, but they're up there in the top three or four teams in the league with offensive weapons. I mean, you don't get many

Kelseys plus three kill plus hunted running back. I mean, he's got weapons all Kelseys plus three kill plus hunted running back. I mean, he's got weapons all around him. So with the creativity, the ability to coach the weapons around him, he's in a position to succeed. Whereas Josh Allen, you know, it's going to take a little bit more time. And listen, everyone thinks Pat Mahomes is going to have this monster year and maybe he winds up because of everything around him. He's still really developed. I mean,

I talked to him five days ago. He was saying, I was struggling for the first two months last year when I got the job to identify the Mike linebacker. Like we never did any of that stuff at tech. It was just a different offensive system and mindset. It was about, you know,

hurrying up and this, that, and the other thing. Like, so a third of the time i was kind of guessing what the mic was the middle line back it seems so easy on tv yeah right 53 53 um but then he's like it's i started to get it a little bit towards the end of last year and now i'm kind of on a different level but there's still a huge learning curve and so

you think about that process and then what these rookies are dealing with, the Darnolds and Josh Allen and everybody else. These guys are 19, no, they're 20, 21, 22-year-olds that are now taking over billion-dollar franchises or are expected to in the next year or so. And it's a lot of pressure, but it's just a lot to learn more, more so than anything. Okay. College ball here. Um, when I think about Clemson's D line, uh, some people think they're all first rounders I've heard, uh, in red and I've heard, look, from people saying it might be the best defensive line we've ever seen in college. And I don't think that's actually crazy.

and I don't think that's actually crazy. I love their running backs and their quarterback who, look, I don't love Kelly Bryant, but I think between him and Trevor Lawrence, who's this big time recruit who came in as a freshman that actually led a different five-star guy, Hunter Johnson, transferring to Northwestern

and the fact that if you run through their schedule, other than, you know, I mean, you'd think they're going to beat A&M. And then they're at Florida State. We're still not sure there. Like, between the schedule, and here's my rule with any college program. If you play one decent, like, big boy out of conference, then I'm good with you, okay?

And I always kind of use it as the Baylor example. Like, Baylor never played anybody, and they wanted credit for scheduling Duke like five years ahead of time. But, you know, I'm not knocking Clemson's schedule. They scheduled A&M, and that's great. But the way it lines up, and the defensive talent, and the fact that they have two options at

quarterback, and I'm starting to wonder if, like, Lawrence is going to take the job from Bryant, and Bryant's more of he's a better runner than Deshaun was, I think. But, you know, he's probably not the same command of the offense that Deshaun had because he was incredible. It's hard to pick against them, at least on paper, all the things they have going for them.

I can't. It's almost starting to feel like another bad sports analogy, but it's starting to feel like the NBA almost. It's really hard to imagine the you know the 14 playoff without Clemson Alabama and right well I can't look I can make a better case against Alabama than I could Clemson with the ACC and the way their schedule goes and Davo has this thing rolling from a recruiting standpoint like and there's another five-star defensive lineman that they're going to put into the rotation that other people like I can't believe this dude didn't transfer and he stayed.

So they're recruiting as well as anybody. And I think Dabo has, like, he's a real dude. He's in the conversation. Look, he doesn't have Saban or Urban's resume, but he's kind of right there with them, I think. I totally agree. I totally agree. They have it rolling down there. It's nuts. Only They have it rolling down there. It's nuts.

Only Alabama has it rolling. And Georgia, I bet Georgia in the next year or so is going to get there because they're getting closer and closer. I mean, I would say Ohio State, you know, take all the urban stuff. Sure, but we're talking on the field. But from a recruiting and personnel standpoint. Yeah, I think they have three first-rounders on the defensive line. And anytime you have three first-rounders,

like I went to Auburn last week to watch a practice preparing for the Washington-Auburn game. And they've got Derrick Brown and a bunch of really good dudes on the defensive line. It doesn't look like it's not the same look as when you go to Clemson, which is crazy. You know, I mean, Clemson, it looks like Alabama. And Georgia is going to get there soon.

And Ohio State is there. And that's about it across the country where it's like, all right, the backup comes in. He's a redshirt freshman or a sophomore who didn't play a whole lot last year, but he's 6'4", 265 pounds. They come screaming off the edge. And he looks the part. They all look the part.

Where Auburn, like, they're really good. Again, they're really good. But it's still, like, it's not the same level where just walking off the bus, you just look and say, man, this looks like an NFL team. And these are 18- to 22-year-old young men. So I'm trying to remember back, like, one of the great things that I, well, I would say I miss it. And one of my favorite things about the job was when we kind of locked in

those two years of having you in, you know, with Van Pelt and I, and then Danny and I doing kind of that hour, wrapping up the college football week. It was just awesome. But every now and then you give me like a little bit of a, like a tidbit. Was Trevor Lawrence the kid coming into Clemson that you had heard about? You rarely will ever stop me. More than any other player.

Yeah, because you won't say to me, oh, hey, check out this five-star, or hey, I heard a buzz. You don't do that to me ever, and you did it with their backup. That's correct, right? You said that about Trevor Lawrence. You'd heard stuff about him more so than any other of these younger guys coming in, correct? My brain is going to explode if I try to get into the recruiting thing.

Exactly. At that time of year, you know, so I just stay away from all the recruiting stuff. I stay away from the national signing day. Don't really get overly involved in spring practices. I'll read up after the fact, you know, when the draft's over in May and June. I've never seen an entire school gush over. Listen, I saw him throw a couple balls on YouTube, I think.

I went and looked after. I haven't seen him really throw live or anything like that, but just talking to Dabo and their offensive coaches and then some of the teammates that were with him when he came in early, there is buzz and excitement like no other when it comes to quarterbacks coming in. So I had to base it solely on that. And he's one of the only true freshmen that I really know a whole lot about.

But listen, I don't know if he's going to win the job. I don't know how it's going to work. Dabo has a history of trying to kind of slow play that and favors the veteran as he should, because when you have a talent lineup, like they have on both sides of the ball, you don't want a young guy who's going to come in and make mistakes. You don't want to rush it. You've got, you can afford to take some time, but Lawrence is, I mean, if he's anywhere close to the hype,

he's going to be the next big star coming out of the college level going to the NFL. All right. We did a ton on Clemson, but you know what? They deserve it,

even though we could do, I just didn't want to do 20 minutes on Alabama because I could do that too. I'm picking Georgia to come out of the SEC. I'm picking Georgia and Bama.

Oh, so you're doing, you think we're going to have two SEC teams in to play off again? I think so. So what's your playoff? What do I know right now? Yeah, I know. Georgia, Georgia, Bama, Clemson.

And I went Stanford. You're not worried about Stanford, Washington. Yeah. The schedule is brutal. I think I picked Stanford before I really studied there. But I also, I also hate doing I feel like every year we get sucked in by the schedule and then things things change I just I don't know I'm I like Washington fans I love I like one weird one I do I mean Herbie went I think Herbie one year had Arizona State and somebody else weird and

then like week seven I mean I think it was over by somebody else weird, and then like week seven. I think it was over by week three, and he was just like week seven. He's on game day. He's like, all right, everybody can shut the bleep up. He's like, you know, I was swinging for it. And then I think he came back next year. He's like Clemson, Bama. The Washington thing feels like it's more about the rest of the Pac-12.

And Stanford's offensive weapons should be fine. He's got his own lineback. You know, I think more people worry about their defense, or they worry about the defense as much as they worry about their schedule, when Washington's secondary is insane. I agree. And Stanford, I don't know, for whatever reason, Stanford's defense has not played like Stanford's defense the last couple of years, you know?

No, not last year. I mean, they gave up 42 to USC. They gave up 34 to UCLA. I mean, there were a couple of games, but they got better as the season went on. It's just they used to be dominant on that side of the ball and just kind of run the ball and wear opponents out, whereas now they're better on the offensive side, which is not Stanford-like.

But I don't know. I just, I think that they, I think they're an underrated team this year. I think Texas, I know we always say Texas, but I think Tom Herman's going to make a big step with that Texas team too. Those are two teams that kind of stood out when I was preparing for the season. Those teams just aren't ranked as high or getting as much national credit as I think that they're going to wind up deserving when it's all said and done. All right, so if we go back to Georgia, though,

and I feel like there's some sort of – it wouldn't be a state law. It would be a U.S. law that they have to have another nasty running back, and there would be like seven different guys. Like the stretch they've had since Gurley and Marshall, and then to have Chubb and Michel, and then also DeAndre Swift. And, you know, Fromm was good enough to get a guy out in Eason, and at one point I thought Eason had the best arm of any SEC quarterback, and then Justin Fields' kid who they think they're going to get on the field.

I feel like, I don't know. Picking against Bama just feels stupid for any reason, right? I mean, because it's them. But I wonder this Tua Hurts thing is annoying enough to maybe just get in the way a little bit. And I think you can make an argument that Georgia on paper, especially with not having, what, eight guys missing from last year's defense to the NFL like Bama did, and I know they reload as well as anybody,

but I don't know. I guess I feel like there's one year I have to pick against him because I feel like I pick him every year for a decade and not meaning that it's gone. I can't even really think of the last time I picked him. I think I picked Arkansas against him in a regular season game in 2010 once. But other than that, I don't really pick against him. No, I'm serious.

Who is the quarterback Arkansas had that looked like he got murdered in that game and then the Raiders took and then cut him immediately I think it took him in the third was it Tyler yeah Tyler Wilson

was it yeah it was Tyler Wilson yeah yeah Tyler Wilson alright good job good job we got there we got there remember when he looked

like he died in that game I mean maybe we're not supposed to make jokes about that stuff anymore he was a rag doll I loved him though I was like look at his toughness.

Yeah, exactly. 7th round grade, let's go. All right, so where are you at with Bama's talent, then, going into this year? I'm at a place where two years ago they had 10 players drafted. Last year they had 12 players drafted. More than half of them seem to always be in the first and second round. And then they reload again and have the most prospects and by top one 50

going into the season or any school in the country. I mean, it's just the same thing over and over again. Now the quarterback thing is interesting. And I've talked to some people who have been to practice and the blocks, you know, it's kind of been behind the curtain a little bit, if you will. And they're saying it looks very likely

that both are going to play early in the season, kind of play it out. But also, don't be surprised to see both of them on the field at the same time and doing different things. So I don't know what to take from it. I just always assumed Tua would take the job. But now everyone's saying that Jalen Hurts is throwing the ball a lot better,

which is hard to believe. Yeah, I don't think it was ever his arm strength, ever. No, but he's making accurate throws. Yeah, like I don't – here's the thing. Anybody that goes, hey, Jalen's 27-2, you can't do that to the kid. SEC Offensive Player of the Year as a freshman. He looked like he made the game National Championship winning play against Clemson.

And then the defense couldn't get any pressure. And they were toast. And look, I'm not even... Yeah, right. I mean, I was lucky enough to be on the sidelines of both of those games. And he made the play. And yet the thing is,

just to say, oh, Jalen's 27-2. Well, Alabama's 27-2, okay? There's a lot more going into it than just Jalen, and I think the biggest issue that you would say with Jalen is that you wanted to see in his second year after that first read that he would get to his second and third read,

and he doesn't do it. He doesn't do it. It's not arm strength. It's playing the position, and then Tua comes out, and you're like, man, this guy just feels more natural back there. So I worry of Saban

of all people that would even allow this kind of thing to happen, but I also understand him selfishly being like, I don't want one of the guys to transfer because who knows? Somebody gets hurt. I understand him being greedy and being selfish about this thing, even if it's not... That's his job. Right. If it's not in the best interest of the kid, you know, and like everybody gets so

anti-establishment and so anti-the NCAA now, there's like, how dare Saban do that? Well, you know what? Like, that's kind of the way it goes. Stuff's unfair for coaching players. Like, sometimes I'm okay with that, even though it's so unpopular to say it. So I guess the point, like, that I would make is that I'd be surprised that Saban would even drag out the uncertainty to try to appease two guys,

knowing one of them's going to be upset no matter what. to try to appease two guys, knowing one of them's going to be upset no matter what. I think he's dragging it out because, honestly, he knows he can win with a quarterback that protects the football. He's talented. They have talent everywhere else. And you can say a lot of things about Jalen Hurts, and I've said them all, but he protects the football.

Yeah, you're right. Whereas Tua is going to make, you know, going back to Patrick Mahomes, he's going to make a lot more big-time plays, but he also, the play before the play was, I don't know, 15-yard sack, whatever it was, that seemed like he may have ended the national championship game by taking that sack. Both the quarterbacks, young quarterbacks in that game took huge sacks, and he was able to recover

with an unbelievable throw, an unbelievable read, keeping the safety in the middle of the field, and then being able to turn, locate, in the millisecond that he turned his head to the left side, that ball comes out, almost like he wasn't looking at him until halfway through his release. That is a senior play or an nfl type play at the quarterback position the way he went through that read and so like that upside

is hard to ignore again i think they're both going to play i think you're going to see some occasionally some funky stuff from with both of them on the field but i do think from all reports that that hurts is starting to play better. And if they're doing everything else well at a high level and they don't need a jolt on the offensive side, I think the safer bet for Saban is to go with Hurts. But if he feels like they don't have enough playmakers, they need a spark, clearly Tua has more upside, if you will, in that regard. Right. They're going to be fine a receiver, though, judy and then the other young kid that people started writing about

those young guys are pretty good man right that one kid that they grabbed from texas that everybody's like actually he stands out at alabama practices and you go okay right uh two other teams i want to get to because i could go through the whole thing but we're not going to do that um because i just you know there's a million different things i I'm, I can't wait for this weekend. Uh, so I was out, I had a couple of cocktails with cow herd, my neighbor now in Manhattan beach. And I don't know, listen to you now, listen to you. Right. Uh, and you know, he loves college ball and I disagree with him some things, but he, he started doing this place a little bit bigger than yours? His place is a little bigger than his. His new contract's a lot bigger than my new contract.

So, I don't know. I'll just try to always figure out that fork in the road. We're like, how come you never ended up being a guy like that? But that's all right. We'll figure out other paths. That's for another therapy session. Right, right. So, this Harbaugh stuff is driving me nuts,

okay? If they sucked, if they were going 6-6 or even worse, then I go, alright, maybe it's time to start knocking this guy around a little. He's done a bad job developing a steady quarterback. The offense, at times, has been atrocious. The red zone stuff is even worse for Wolverines fans watching it all the time.

But his resume is incredible overall, San Diego, Stanford, and NFL success, even though some people want to deny it that because they didn't, you know, Kaepernick didn't hit somebody in the end zone for a game when he touched them in the Super Bowl, that somehow that isn't being successful. And, you know, a couple years ago, although a bit of a stretch in the playoff conversation, and it's not a stretch to say that they were in it, but people that, you know, at the end of the year that's saying, oh, Michigan's in my four, that was kind of ridiculous. I've seen Shea Patterson play at Ole Miss.

He's a better option than anything that Michigan had last year when Michigan tried a bunch of different guys. I wonder how Patterson's going to fit into a more conservative approach, which is what Harbaugh's always done in the past, unless they change that around with their three different, they have like this three headed monster as far as like their offensive coaches after Harbaugh, their schedules,

brutal Notre Dame. They've got Wisconsin. They're at Michigan state. I believe they're at Michigan state. Yep. Uh, Michigan state at Ohio state. That's right.

Yep. And then they've got Penn state in between there too. I want to kind of pick them because I love their defensive talent and I want to maybe talk myself into like Patterson electrifying things in Ann Arbor there but here's here's what I like Cowherd and I were talking about Harbaugh I cannot anybody that's like oh this Harbaugh guy that everybody thought was so great yeah he's so great and you know what last year they're bad on offense but there's enough other stuff but then Cowherd transitioned into. I could argue he has a better overall resume than Saban.

And I went, okay, now we're going to have to get a check. We'll get the check, and I'll call you next week. Because they can't feel too much. Right. So he was basically saying because Saban wasn't great with the Dolphins, and some people say disastrous, I think the exit and the animosity towards Saban makes that Dolphin run seem more disastrous historically than it actually was.

Whereas Harbaugh played in the Super Bowl and almost won the thing. But we're still talking about somebody that at the college level is probably the greatest thing we've ever seen of any era. So I guess I just have sort of a Harbaugh question, like take the Harbaugh conversation any direction that you want to go to, because I don't get it. I think people got tired of like him being out there so much and everyone praising him that the world did this reversal on the guy and people act like he's a clown. Yeah, I think it's pretty typical. You build somebody up and then they have a little bit of failure and then you're going to come rip them. But I think it was kind of built for this

to happen anyway, because when he came in, there was there was a lot of veteran talent. And then everyone, you know, they lost all those guys, especially in the defensive side of the NFL. And he's kind of been regrouping. But now feels like the year for Harbaugh to me where he's they've got to take another step. The biggest surprise to me is that they haven't developed a quarterback, You know, brought him in, recruited him, and developed him. Because that's what he was known for. Listen, anyone could develop Andrew Luck, but he did. And then, you know, he always seemed to have success.

And obviously with Kaepernick in the NFL, he kind of tweaks things and how they're doing it. And still has a lot of success with Kaepernick. So that's the biggest mystery to me. And it doesn't sound like when you talk to people in Michigan, it doesn't sound like these young guys, whether it's McCaffrey or Brandon Peters. Peters, I guess, has played a little bit better this summer from what I've heard. But it doesn't sound like any of these guys are really thriving and, and, you know, get playing better than expected or playing to the level that you expected when they were early high recruits. So he goes on and gets Patterson. And I've even heard

the Patterson said some up and downs and camp, you know, summer camp as well. So it'll be interesting to see, and that's how it's going to be defined this year, but they have 17 guys returning nine guys on the defensive side, and they should be a really good football team. Again, tough schedule, but I think this is the year where if they go 8-5 again, then I think you have reason to complain about Harbaugh if you're an Ann Arbor plus.

Listen, I know Jim, and we've done a bunch of these games, and we're good, but he can be difficult to deal with. And so I think if you're a fan, you can put up with being difficult to deal with if you're Nick Saban and you're winning every year. I think now we've been coming off of five-loss season and the losses to Ohio State. I think it's starting to build a little bit,

but I would agree it's unfair. This is the year, though, to me, where it's going to turn one way or the other on him because they should be really, really good based off of all the talent they've brought in. And you get a guy like Patterson, who's got to learn how to play on schedule, by the way. I mean, his best plays at Ole Miss

were always the broken down plays. Dude, I mean, he loves them. I don't think people get it. I can't wait for Michigan fans week one to actually go, oh, wait. You can talk about practice or anything else that you've seen with him, but it's pretty wild. It really is.

How am I going to put up with that? Well, he never has. He's never really run an offense like that. I think with Peters last year, he was supposed to be the solution just because it was going to be different than Spate. Some of that that stuff's on Spate too. But they tried a bunch of different things and then Spate like would just freeze. And then, you know, it was weird. Everything sort of transitioned towards blaming Harbaugh. All right. A few more minutes because I know I have to let you go. I got to talk West Virginia because we

need to bring up this team. They're not the big 12 favorites. Oklahoma clearly is. And Murray's a terrific runner. We'll see how great of a thrower he is. I think a lot of the Oklahoma stuff has been said before. We know West Virginia's M.O. from the past, 90th in points allowed, but if you look at Rose and Robinson and Bigelow and some of the transfers that they brought in, you, I guess on paper, feel like they should be better defensively,

but tell me about what Greer is possible of and the fact that they will play Oklahoma to close the season in Norman. Greer is kind of a gutty player. He's talented. I wouldn't put him in the level of

any of the quarterbacks like first round pick. I think he's more of a mid-round guy that comes in and competes for a backup spot. He sounds white. Is he white? Is he white? What's that? Is he white? This sounds like a white guy. He's gritty. He's smart. He's an overachiever. But listen, I think they can be explosive offensively.

Defensively, I think they're well-coached. They haven't had a lot of talent. And so that's going to be the big thing. In that conference, if you can play a little bit of defense, you got a shot. But, you know, the quality opponent thing bugged me with them last year. I did the Virginia Tech game. They lost to TCU. They lost to Oklahoma State, lost to Texas, lost to Oklahoma.

So basically when you look at the schedule, and I don't have the whole thing in front of me, but if you look at the schedule from last year, they beat the teams they should have beaten and they lost to the teams that are quality opponents. And so can they take that next step this year? And I think a big part of that is going to be on the defensive side. Listen, we know Greer's a good player.

We know that he's got some weapons, Gary Jennings, David Sills, are quality receivers, really good college receivers. But I think with Tony Gibson, the defensive coordinator, he's got to – hopefully they've got some more talent. Everyone in the Big 12 respects him as a coach and the different looks that he provides. It's just a matter of getting better players on the field, and only time will tell.

But I think they're really an intriguing team to watch. I think Texas, as I said, is going to be better than people think. I think TCU might take a little bit of a dip with only 11 starters coming back. But Oklahoma, still, I think they're the best coached team in the Big 12. I would put him up there at the top 10, maybe even top six or seven coaches in all of college football. I mean, there are NFL people that are comfortable telling me and telling other people that they're actually flying to Norman to pick his brain, to pick Lincoln Riley's brain and to look through their offense and do different things. And so to me, that's, you's – we saw it with Baker last year.

We'll see now with a new quarterback. But I think when you have a coach at that level, you're going to be okay. And I think they're still the team to beat in my opinion. Todd, I can't wait, man. What's your first game for ESPN? We go Washington, Auburn, 3.30 on ABC Saturday. Where are you going to be for that? On the sideline?

No, neutral site. I was letting you. Oh, sorry. Sorry. I was like, have you ever watched? We are, yeah, we're in Atlanta at the Mercedes-Benz home. That's what I was trying to say. Sorry, I want to travel this week.

No, no, that's fine. And I know you're busy, man. And thanks for joining us. And I was happy to have my first Ringer College Football Podcast be with my guy. All right, man. I'll talk to you soon. Well, I appreciate it, bud. Thanks for having me.

I'll talk to you soon. All right, that'll do it for the first episode of the Dual Threat Podcast for the Ringer. Make sure you subscribe to the Dual Threat Podcast Ringer page, I guess iTunes, everything else. I'm Ryan Russone. We'll do this every single week. Subscribe, rate, and review.