The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Bill Simmons on Chiefs-Patriots | Dual Threat With Ryen Russillo (Ep. 8)

Episode Date: October 17, 2018

Russillo talks CFB rankings and why some schools should get the benefit of the doubt, before being joined by Bill Simmons to discuss the Chiefs-Pats Sunday-night shootout, NFL offenses of the future, and Bill's wild take on Saquon Barkley, capped off by some mailbag questions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to another edition of ringers dual threat podcast. I'm going to have Bill Simmons on ever heard of him. He's going to explain to me a theory that he says is maybe the worst thing he's ever he's that he believes it but people are on his case so we'll recap some of the chiefs pats thing we'll do a little nfl so that ended up being a surprise because our original guest wasn't able to join us today we're not going to say who that is because we don't want to sell him out we like him we're pro him on this podcast but we um i don't know and actually everything worked out great okay and then i'm gonna do some college stuff top teams rankings playoff predictions all that kind of thing what i think the committee will do because we are now inching closer and closer to the playoff rankings coming up. All right, before we do that, if you want an edge over Vegas, download the BetQL app, the app you need to get an advantage this season.

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and the rankings and some of the upsets that we had this week. It's still trying to project kind of where the conferences are at and how these playoff rankings will play out. OK, so I think it's pretty clear between the AP and coaches poll one, two and three in both polls. Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson and Notre Dame's rounding it out at the fourth team. Now, Alabama, if you're ever doing this, well, who have they actually beaten?

Louisville's not very good this year. That was their game opener or their season opener. Arkansas State at Ole Miss. They destroyed them. They beat Texas A&M, who I think is a top 25 team. The Rankings have backed that up as well. And then, you know, beating Missouri, where Missouri, for a very small amount of time this past Saturday, thought maybe they had a

chance of being in that game. Tua even came out, but then Saban said after the game that Tua Tagovailoa would have been able to come back into the game if they needed him to. But they didn't because they're Alabama and they're playing Missouri. So, yes, you could do the who is Alabama beaten, which is what every single fan base is going to do about any of these teams that are in the debate

if there are six teams for four slots or something like that. If Alabama's undefeated and they win the SEC, then it's not going to matter. But I do think that there has to be some common sense placed on this that, yes, we can fall too in love with certain brands. But if somebody were going to give New England, if the NFL had rankings to get you or play off a committee that puts you in the playoffs, if somebody were to say, hey, you know, it's always really good, New England, let's put him in. That would be fine. Like, I would be

fine. Obviously, that's not the process that we have in the NFL, and it's better because it's not a committee of people sitting around, but that's the only way they can do this right now. Maybe you go to six, maybe you go to eight. I've heard everybody's theory, the buys and all that stuff. Okay, but as of right now, to say Alabama's getting the benefit of the doubt, that's okay. That's

okay to get the benefit of the doubt when you've been ranked number one for 11 straight seasons and you continue to smash everybody and you were 7-0. One AP voter voted Ohio State number one. Two coaches voted non-Alabama. There's an Ohio State vote and then two votes for Clemson

who ended up not playing this week. That's right. They were off this week after destroying Wake Forest who checks in at three and three on the season and almost in last place in the Atlantic. So I think that this is a continuation of some of the different things that we've seen that I am okay with Alabama getting the benefit of the doubt. Ohio State here, who, if you really want to be nitpicky,

and I'm not being nitpicky, I think we do this too much that if you're a presumed favorite in a team that's, oh, you know, look, it's going to be, what was the I'm not being nitpicky, I think we do this too much that if you're a presumed favorite in a team that, oh, you know, look, it's going to be, what was it at the beginning of the year? Oh, it's going to be, you know, Alabama, Oklahoma, Clemson, Ohio State. There's no point even playing this season. It's going to be those teams. No, like, there's probably going to be two more losses among that group

of three. Oklahoma already losing their game to Texas. Now Texas is cranked into the top ten. We'll take a look at them in a second. So, Ohio State, again, if you wanted to be nitpicky on this, the TCU game was about turnovers. They could have lost to Penn State. They actually seem to be in a game with Indiana and Minnesota, oddly enough. By the way, Minnesota, I'd sort of forgotten about

row the boat guy for a little while. Row the boat guys out there, rowing it. That was a 17-14 game at the half. But again, I'm okay with that. You keep winning, and if you're a team that has been around for a little bit, I know it's not the exact same team, but I guess I'm just arguing Ben and for the doubt a little bit more of the same. I'd argue it for Alabama or teams from other parts of the country. Clemson, despite the Cuse win that was a little weird with a backup QB, They could have lost to A&M.

Look, they're undefeated. We're not going to worry about that right now. Notre Dame is a team that before the season started, they're going to play Michigan. They beat them. They beat Stanford. They won at Virginia Tech with Virginia Tech's backup quarterback, but they still put up 45 on the Hokies down there.

And they're going to finish with Florida State. Syracuse may be the toughest game for them the rest of the way. And their last game of the season will be at USC. So these three teams, Michigan, Stanford, Virginia Tech, Florida State, USC, all are below what we thought they would be before the season started. And they actually were down to Pitt late and had to come back and beat a Pitt team here. So they win 19-14 against the Panthers. And I know people will say, oh, 12-0, just put them in.

The ranking backs that up. They're probably going to get into the playoff. against the Panthers, and I know people would say, oh, 12-0, just put them in, the ranking backs that up, they're probably going to get into the playoff, and I don't know if they're that good, and you could make some parallels there to the team that got smashed by Alabama in the college football playoff years ago, because I still thought that Notre Dame team was talented, but if you watched it every single week of that team, you'd go, is this really one of the two best teams? And I don't think it was favoritism in Notre to name. You just, you started going, all right, look, they're still undefeated and we're going to throw them in this thing. Let's get to LSU at

number five. LSU, the biggest win that LSU's had, I think since they beat Alabama nine to six in 2011. I was at that game. It was an incredible game. And then Alabama beat them in the rematch where LSU literally couldn't get the ball over the 50 yard line and Jordan Jefferson in the offense in that game was absolutely terrible. But during those years when LSU still had an offense that you were frustrated about, I mean, raise your hand if you were totally aware of who Odell Beckham Jr. was while he was at LSU. Because unless you were a super hardcore college football fan or just an LSU guy like this, like, wait that guy that smaller guy from LSU he might be the most dynamic player in the NFL and that's you know he and Landry put up decent numbers there but still like you think

that you would have thought or known more about him or he would have made a bigger impact had LSU had what we think um was was a much like they needed better offenses this is this is not new down in Baton Rouge. Okay. All the years of thinking, man, how can we just don't have like, how can we not have a season where it seems like we put up a million points and have this really dangerous offense that you need to prepare for. So when LSU beat Miami, okay. And we realized then Miami with Rozier, just not the same. They're just not that good of a team. They beat Auburn in kind of one of those LSU voodoo type wins where they used to have a lot of those under Les Miles where they go man they pulled that one out again how did they end up

winning that game like that that doesn't make any sense they won that game too and that seemed to be the wrong decision and LSU just always won those games so after that Auburn win I thought all right they're gonna have to start having a ton of games like that again for them to be in the playoff conversation here then they lose at, which is a game they led. Florida is a, what do we have them at, nine? Excuse me, Florida's at 11. So Florida, that loss there for LSU, considering what LSU's schedule is like,

that loss can be looked at as a little bit differently in that it's not going to ding them up as much. And clearly the committee, or excuse me, the voters this week thought enough of Georgia to vote up LSU considering they smashed a Georgia team and they smashed them too. I mean, that was a dominant, dominant win. And it was a little unlike some of these LSU games where they did have these big plays, whether it was Burrow running for 59 yards or Edwards Allaire going for 47 yards, Jefferson, their best receiver had a a 50-yard play.

There was another 37-yard play, and they were terrific on defense. There are moments where LSU looks like the best team as far as just dudes. If you do the dude test and you start looking around at all these teams on a Saturday, there are moments where I think LSU has better players than everybody else. But then there are moments where you go, how come it's third and seven, and I just don't trust anyone at LSU has better players than everybody else. But then there are moments where you go how come it's third and seven and I just don't trust anyone at LSU to get this done. Burrow wasn't great but there were some big plays in there

and that went against Georgia. Georgia's not done and Georgia has a couple more ranked games coming up. This would have been a weirder stretch for them. They lose to LSU. They have Florida, a neutral site then they're at Kentucky and then Auburn who just fell out of the rankings. So that's four weeks in a row for Georgia. So if

we think that they're still good, they're going to have to run those next three there. And I don't think that's impossible, but Florida is a team that with Felipe Franks, I thought, okay, their defense is nasty. There's like three or four guys on that defense. They're just filthy and watching them against Vandy. I'm like, man, I still think they're going to win this game. And then the weird fumble happens and I go, I don't really like Felipe Frank. So guess what? Florida put up, I have it in my notes here. I know that's because I wrote it down.

576 total yards of offense against Vandy. Little bit of a newsflash here, but it looks like Florida could sneaky have more going on there offensively than I thought at the beginning of the year. And their schedule the rest of the way, I think is pretty, other than Georgia, like they should be able to run the rest of it. Mizzou, South Carolina, Idaho, and then Florida State. Two more teams that I want to talk about here. And that is Texas. Now it's seven in the polls, first place, 4-0 in the Big 12. They have the Oklahoma win in their back pocket. They lost Ellinger to a shoulder sprain with the MRI. They said he could have come back in, but I don't know.

I don't know if that's true or not. I don't know if I believe that one, but Shane Buchel is a backup quarterback, terrific, and Tom Herman was raving about him after the fact. When Charlie Strong was still coaching Texas, he came into the studio, and I remember going, all right, you finally have the quarterback in Austin. He's like, yeah,

Shane Buchel, man. Shane Buchel, Shane Buchel. And then he got benched. So at the very least we know he's got experience and that he's kind of one of those team first guys. So depending on what goes on here with Ellinger, they'll be able to get him going. They've got Oklahoma State who's falling apart. West Virginia who just lost

to Iowa State. Iowa State is now just the big game hunter out there. I don't know if that's another series on Netflix, but it sounds like it. And they take down, it feels like one Big 12 opponent every single season that you didn't expect. So now you've got to reevaluate if West Virginia is the best team out of this, if it's Oklahoma. I'm sure there's still some people kind of on the Oklahoma bandwagon with this considering that they finish up, and I believe, oh, no, that's on the road. That's at West Virginia the end of the year.

That's 11-23, so their last game will be on the road there. And at this point, I don't think you can really say, ah, well, you know, there's no way that West Virginia can go there and win it. It just was good that it felt like West Virginia's defense was improving, which it was, but then you lose against Iowa State. As far as Texas, Oklahoma State, West Virginia game. So the West Virginia games, basically West Virginia's in two games here where had they not been upset by Iowa State,

they probably could have split the last two. But now with that, they're probably going to have to get both to still be the playoff team outside of the Big 12. And the final team here where there's rankings, resume, and kind of eye tests where it's all collectively together,

Oregon's 12th in the AP, big win in overtime for them against Washington. I would pick Oregon neutral site over Florida, UCF, maybe not Oklahoma. Definitely Tech. I think I'd pick Oregon to beat Notre Dame. LSU's iffy. I think they'd beat Michigan. I think they'd beat Texas. I don't know if they'd beat Georgia. You know, Fromm was really good for them last year. And Gary Danielson and Nessler, they made a really good point them last year and gary danielson and uh nestler they made a

really good point during the saturday game against lsu where they said you know if you really if you really look at how you know justin fields the freshman five-star stud at quarterback you know they want to use them and they go yeah but what happens if it works what if he puts together a couple good drives and they still lose the game like would you have another quarterback situation where you're benching your guy so yeah all right so right. So let me do this again. Notre Dame, yeah, I'd pick Oregon. LSU, I'm not sure. Michigan, I'd pick Oregon. Texas, I'd pick Oregon.

Probably against Georgia, I'd pick Oregon. Oklahoma, I'm not sure. UCF, yes. Florida, yes. That's how good I think Oregon is. That's how impressive they are physically. It was another week against a physical team where Stanford is not physical.

Whatever version that we're all accustomed to of Stanford, that team does not live here anymore in 2018, or it hasn't at least in the first half of the season. They were really good against Washington again. And Herber is a dude whose overall numbers may not blow you away, but there'll be moments in a game where you're like, okay, that's why this guy could potentially be the number one pick in the draft. So that's kind of how I see it all in the top 12. Oregon's very much still alive in this thing, especially with that head-to-head against Washington and me expecting that Stanford is going to end up having another loss in the conference. They're both one loss. All of these teams are one loss in the conference. Oregon's 2-1,

Stanford's 2-1, Washington's 3-1. Whether it's, I don't know, up at, well, it's not at Pullman. Hey, did you hear the part where Ryan read the schedules out loud okay so moving on that's my college football wrap-up uh as we are about seven six games in depending on who your squad is we're gonna get with Bill Simmons here and talk Saquon Barkley and what we learned from Chiefs Pats which is about as much fun there have been so many games now yesterday was sort of a dud, but in general, that was such an awesome just nightcap on the whole deal, where it feels like there are so many Sundays. I mean, I don't know. Maybe that's why the

ratings are up, and it's real simple, is that it feels like at least once a Sunday, you get something absolutely incredible to watch. Before we get to the mailbag and this week's Chris Fowler trivia, apparently Herbstreet was all over it, because now everybody is on this, and people will just videotape theler trivia. Apparently Herbstreet was all over it because now everybody is on this and people will just videotape the trivia thing

and Herbstreet answered it immediately. So we're not going to change the name of it to Kirk Herbstreet Trivia, but because we, you know, branding issues and trademarks and whatnot. But speaking of brands that I like, it's Hotel Tonight. Just used it the other day for my mom.

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we start with the chiefs pats because i have something off of this which i think is actually it's very when everybody's red zone now you lose flow you lose kind of flow and feel for a game and then when you get to watch the full prime time ones there was no doubt new england was going to come down and score again none whatsoever and i think it's a positive really kind of for both teams. Like I would look at last night's game as I was not surprised New England won it. I was not surprised that they scored at the very end. I think the Chiefs defense is so bad, even though the Pats is exactly anything to brag about here. But it was rewarding us for watching the entire game.

And ultimately, I don't think a very surprising ending. That was my takeaway as well. Both teams won. Whoever was going to have the ball last was going to win. When you're blaming the other team for scoring too fast, you know it's a ridiculous game. Mahomes passed some checkpoints

I felt like. Ooh, are these Bill checkpoints? Seem nervous in the first half. Oh, okay. No, it's just, you know, there was a roadmap where if he'd had a bad game and had made some mistakes people would be like what did Belichick figure out the blueprint

yeah oh he did some stuff and then you're on NFL edge matchup watch this watch how I want you to watch how here the guys on the edge

they come in but then Mahomes made like five great plays in the second half you know what you can never do with him too if you're doing those like free or wrap-up shows

where they do, like I always think we do this in baseball, where they show where the catcher's mid is, and then he moves it two inches one direction, and then the guy hits a home run, and then the guy will be like, oh, missed his spot, and they run like three or four missed spots.

When pitchers miss spots all game long, the quarterbacks will be like, throw it off your back foot. You can't do that to Mahomes. He can throw off of any horrible foundation, and it's still going to work for him. So that's just me helping the industry moving forward. He's one of those guys that if you're trying to game plan against,

I don't really know what the plan would be other than to just cover his receivers and just make it difficult for him to find open guys. Because he's going to scramble around. He can make any throw in the field. And he's just going to keep getting better as he, like, learns how to, you know, read defenses a little bit better each game and each season.

You know, the fragility is the only thing that I would worry about with him. Because he's not a huge guy, and he's exposed a lot, and he takes hits. And, you know, there is a roadmap for him taking the wrong hit as bad as kansas city's defense is coming in and there's depending on which metric you want to look at they're they're terrible um you know they were for the first few weeks like the defensive the dvoa stuff they were last they were up a few spots going into that game they're probably gonna be look they're last against the were up a few spots going into that game. They're probably going to be their last against the run. I thought watching their defense

give up stuff is just, hey, everybody's going to be open and you can run right over them. If I broke down the tape, it'd be like, here's what we see. If I looked at New England's tape, and again, this is a defense I think that you and I have talked about

with New England where you're like, how come they're just not a little bit better? I felt like they were just getting torched by incredibly great players. I felt the same way. Tyreek Hill is having some moment now. Is he the fastest wide receiver ever? Has there ever been a receiver

where he catches the ball 30 yards? Willie Galt? Where he catches the ball and the guy Willie Galt? Where he catches the ball and the guy's even with him and it's just over? That was crazy. That was crazy. Yeah, you're like,

oh, he's not going to catch him. The defender was two steps ahead of him. Yeah, and you're watching it and you go, oh, wait, he's just going to be able to run away from him in the NFL?

And that's, if you think of all the times, all the years of watching players, where would he be? Like, what other guys are we talking about? We're at the pro level. That's why I brought it up.

Like, it's almost like when you watch. Randy Moss, it was, okay, something's different here. But he was also 6'4". Yeah.

And it made sense to your eyes when you're watching it. When I watched Tyreek Hill, it's like watching those a hundred meter, like watching Ben Johnson run. Where like, there's no part of his body really moving. It's just, it's like, he's being propelled by some wind gust. He's not, it's not like his arms are flailing.

He's just gone. Like I even slow mode the touchdown yesterday. Cause I was like, I don't understand how this guy's this fast. And he's just like, just gone. So yeah, I mean. Dion, I think you'd put out there. They just look different. I think the fact that he's not a big guy

makes it crazier. You know, like Saquon Barkley, who we're going to talk about in a second, like he's crazy fast too. This is different though. This is like, who's catching him from behind? Nobody ever in the history of the league.

No, I don't... I had a friend that went to the opener against the Chargers and just said it's it's weird when it's 22 NFL people out there and one of them looks like

he's like in a league below him yeah it's like watching peewee football where there's the one guy who doesn't belong in the game and yeah like that

that rugby kid that really fat rugby kid that we saw that video of right Tyreek's faster than that kid is but that kid had a lot of size how does that work by the way i think like do people go oh cool hey did you kid play yeah we have a youth rugby league there's there's a samoan kid though that's 100 pounds bigger than everybody else he just chucks everybody's head in the dirt he put five people

in the hospital last week though it's a great vine it's so funny though because one of the cliched football announcer things is always like, you know, and you hear it with like Tavon Austin. It's like when Tavon Austin comes out, the defense has to watch him. Like you have to make sure. Watch him not get thrown to again. It's like he's Tavon Austin.

They're fine. But when Tyreek Hill's on the field, I can imagine the defense is just constantly aware the entire time of where he is, what he's up to, not making sure he doesn't get behind the last guy. It has to completely change how you defend that team. So anyway, I think the Chiefs will be there.

The Pats will be there. And we're heading, Sal and I talked about this on our podcast last night. We might just be heading to this world where it's just the four best offenses or the four teams remaining and that's it. And that's just where we are. Yeah, that's what I felt about with college the four teams remaining, and that's it. And that's just where we are.

Yeah, that's what I felt about with college the last couple years is that... I was going to ask you about that. This is eventually what happened in college, right? Yeah, right. Because the four best offenses are who's standing. It'd be funny because, you know, so much of the debate is geographical,

and that's what I'll do with some of the rankings that I do in this podcast today. But it'll be this thing where I'll go, oh, you know, Bama, huh? They're real good on defense you know, defense, 40 to Clemson back to back. And you just go, yeah, I actually think the goal in college football is to hold teams to 30. Yeah. And somebody still has to be statistically a top 10 defense through the course of the season with almost 130 teams here. So like, yes, some teams are still going to be statistically better than

everybody else defensively, but there's still going to be a Saturday where they give up 40, and it looks like you just can't stop anybody. And that's what it's starting to feel like on Sundays. I wonder if we're heading to a world where you're almost better off just throwing the kitchen sink at somebody, and if they score right away, great, because you get the ball back. Because what happened yesterday, the Chiefs, that kick return, bringing it all the way down, and then they scored away,

and the Pats got the ball right back it was actually the best thing that could have happened to the Patriots and you saw the same thing with the Bengals Steelers yesterday where the Bengals drove down but they scored a little too quick and it's like of course Roethlisberger is going to go 50 yards with three timeouts and half of Cincy's defense

so I almost wonder if there's going to be more strategy at the end of these games like if I can let them score or let's going to be more strategy at the end of these games. I'm like, ah, if I could let them score. Or, ah, let's try to get the ball back as fast as we can. This is what I felt like the Pats should have done in the Super Bowl last year. Instead of that 10-minute drive that the Eagles had, you send the kitchen sink. Either you make a play or they score, you get the ball back. That might be where football's going.

Yeah, that is interesting. I mean, I guess I didn't really think of it that way. Like, hey, let's see. Remember when they went zero coverage and Collinsworth brought it up on the replay and he missed Tyreek Hill, but he missed it because they went zero coverage, no safety, and they sent everybody after Mahomes. And then Mahomes threw it up and it was, seriously, if Mahomes had led him more to the right, he would have just run underneath it, caught it, and it would have been a touchdown. Right. But it's kind of exactly what you're talking about.

And I've never seen anything like this in sports before where the best strategy might be to either be like, we're either going to get crushed on this play or something good might happen. You know, the Ben Bento break days are just over. I don't think you can do that anymore. And by the way, this is still 40 points that the Pats give up

when they looked like they had done the best job against Mahomes, if anybody. I mean, Denver was pretty good in the first half on that, what was it, a Monday nighter. But there was a moment last night where you're going, oh man, this isn't even competitive. It was like 23-7. Yeah. Tyreek had three touchdowns in the second half. That's insane.

Remember Moss did that once in 07 where he scored three touchdowns in a game. Yeah, in a game. I was like, oh my God, he scored three touchdowns in a game. I was like, oh my God, he scored three touchdowns in a game. Tyreek just rattled it off in an hour yesterday. Yeah, that's what happens when you might be the fastest dude ever. Give me... I actually feel honored that you're going to debut this and not save

this for you. I did it on my pod. I did it briefly yesterday. I did it briefly. Do you want to expand it? Well, I wanted to argue about it with you because people were very upset in the ringer they said it was my dumbest take of 2018

Sean Fantasy Sean Fantasy was like this is this is the worst ringer take of the entire year my take is this I think Saquon Barkley

might be the best running back I've ever seen in my life so I bet I've wait a minute I don't feel like I've ever seen in my life. So I bet I've... Wait a minute. I don't feel like I've

processed that enough. I thought we were going to say in the league right now. You think he's going to be the... You think he's the best running back? So he's made me reconsider. So I can first remember football like 1974.

I've set the tail end to OJ. It's not like OJ was on in Boston and I saw highlights. Walter Payton was the next guy. Watched him a handful of times until they had that great 85 season. At that point, he was a little on the downside. Terrell Davis, I thought was incredible. I thought Barry Sanders was incredible. Marshall Falk was maybe a shade below,

but the pass receiving, I thought, was what made him stand out. And then Tomlinson. I really wouldn't put anybody else from the last 12 years in that conversation. That's probably like the best six or seven. Emmitt, just to bring up. Emmitt was the guy you want

in the NFC Championship game when it's 20 degrees outside and I need somebody who's going to have 36 carries for 120 yards and get me 11 first downs. I don't know if he's the best running back I've ever seen.

Yeah, he's not the best to me, but I think it's just... But he's like getting the money running back and running. Barkley has all these things that all these dudes have that were at the highest level and it's all in the same package.

And for where football is going, where, you know, you look at the best level and it's all in the same package. And for where football's going, where you look at the best teams in the league right now, they all have a quarterback, but they all have a running back who can run and catch, right? So when he's out there, you can spread the field and the defense doesn't know, is he running or are they

throwing? And if they're throwing, can he leak out and have these little screen passes or wheel routes, whatever, or am I spreading him out and he's kind of unstoppable on a seven on seven? So you got like Todd Gurley, you got Melvin Gordon, you have Kamara, you have Sonny Michel, which is I think what the Pats wanted from him, and Kareem Hunt. And they're all the same type. They're all guys who can run and catch. I think you need that guy with where football's gone. The Giants just took the best possible version of this, maybe ever. So my question is, why was it the wrong pick? It's the wrong pick because they thought Eli

could still play quarterback. He can't. They have the worst offensive line in the league. I can still play quarterback. He can't. They have the worst offensive line in the league. It's only the wrong pick if Sam Darnold is really good. Like if Sam Darnold's as good as Phil Rivers, it's the wrong pick. If he's Matt Stafford, I actually would rather have eight to 10 years of Barkley.

Than Matthew Stafford? Yeah. I'd rather have eight to 10 years. A little bit there. Am I winning a Super Bowl with Matthew Stafford? My goal is to win the Super Bowl. Am I winning the Super Bowl with Matthew Stafford? Okay, but then I would immediately say,

which running back do you go, that's a running back good enough to bring a team to the Super Bowl? We don't do that anymore. We don't talk about these guys that way anymore because it doesn't matter. This is my point though. I think you need the QB and the receiver now.

I mean, I'm sorry, and the running back now. I think you need both in where football's going. I think you have to QB and the receiver now. I mean, I'm sorry, and the running back now. I think you need both in where football is going. I think you have to have the high-level, all-pro-level quarterback, and I think you need to have an awesome running back. I think you need those two things now. So they have one of those two things. The question is, how do you get the quarterback? They're going to go 3-13.

Maybe they get him this year. If they felt like Darnold wasn't that quarterback, then I think it's the right move. Now, if Darnold comes back to haunt them and he's has at least a Phil Rivers career, Drew Brees or whatever, then it was a mistake. I'm willing to say that I think the Darnold Baker thing, we'll look back on that in five years and laugh that we had shifted from Darnold who everybody loved after that Lions opener to then they lose the overtime game Baker comes in saves the day and you know and then it was Baker mania right and then it was well how after three weeks if you were to say you know I still think Darnold would be better than Baker but what are you oh my god do you even watch yeah

um I'm I'm still on the Darnold thing and that's probably being married due pre-draft, liking Darnold more than Baker. I mean, remember, the Baker thing was really weird to the point where I almost thought it was a lie. Not that I didn't think teams thought he was good, but I don't know if it was Schefter or who it was that week leading up. I thought it was one of those kind of BS. Smokescreen.

Yeah. Like, okay, the Browns are considering. I'm like, are considering or what? Like, everybody, nothing makes me, oh, look, I understand how it works. You know,

I've been in it to some degree with the draft stuff, but the whole, the Giants are listening to offers thing. Which team, report to me the team that hangs up on everybody.

Actually, no, there's no offer you can make, so we're not interested in making any trades, right? So, all of that stuff that happens,

you know, and they'll say like, oh, the Giants are good. but the Giants. Oh, they move up, they move down.

It was weird that they didn't try to Jedi mind trick the the Giants are good. with the Giants. Oh, they move up, they move down. It was weird that they didn't try to Jedi mind trick the Jets into then trading up to the two spot. Yeah, because that always seems to work more often

than I would think. With Trubisky, I was like, did you really think that that was going to happen? You had to give up all that stuff? Well,

same thing with the Lakers and Lonzo. Danny can't trade down unless he knows for sure the Lakers are trading Lonzo. From the get-go, the Lakers are like, we're taking Lonzo.

Dana's like, great. I'm going to go from one to three and pick up the Kings pick because you idiots have already said who you're taking. I would never tell anyone who I'm taking. Would you tell people on your staff? What? How many people would you have like a trusty right-hand guy that you

would tell or would you not even tell that person? Yeah, I'd have an inner circle. You got to have your inner circle. You gotta have your inner circle. You gotta have, yeah, but the thing is how like, how big would your front office inner circle be?

Probably like three people, right? You have your director of scouting, your assistant GM, and then your coach if you trust them. What if your owner, what if your owner's allowed that?

Well, see, the owner's the problem because the owner's like drunk at a cocktail party and they're like, yeah, we're going to take Barkley. Don't listen to all this shit.

You know, after like seven glasses of Chardonnay. So you probably have to lie to the owner. Yeah, because I think about this all the time

because there was one team that I had two guys in the front office and they were really good and they were good on players. They were good on picks. They were always wrong about what their own team

was doing. And then I learned, I go, oh gosh, like I can't. And then I learned. I go, oh, gosh. Like, I can't. And now I figured it took me like two, three years of these guys aren't even close. And it's supposedly their team. Yeah. And then I realized the guy in their place doesn't tell anybody what he's doing.

It just doesn't. So I was just like, oh. Danny Ainge is like that. Yeah, but it's weird because when Ainge. It's really hard to read the Celtics. It was weird to think of how we get the Celtics into this pod. like, oh. Danny Ainge is like that. Yeah, but it's weird because when Ainge- It's really hard to read the Celtics. It was weird to think of how we get the Celtics into this pod. Congratulations on figuring out a way to do that. I was figuring out for the last 10 minutes.

Mahomes, is he a bit like Dee Brown? Put up Mahomes Tatum. Whose ceiling is better? If Jerry Kale came in for Orion Green, who'd win? Pick up one-on-one. Yeah, Ainge definitely does it now, but I think it was funny because beginning when Ainge started,

Ainge, it seemed that everybody knew what he wanted to do. First couple years. I remember I asked him that. He liked him much. I was at a presser in Waltham, and I said, hey, do you think you've made a concerted effort

to be harder to predict because a lot of people knew what you were going to do that first draft with Marcus Banks? Yeah. And Robert Swift. Everybody knew he loved Robert Swift, remember? Yeah, right, right. Wait, so do you think my Barkley take is insane?

Do you see it? Is this my worst take of 2018? Well, I haven't kept track of all of them, but it's so unpopular because of the running back, right? So the first, I think it's one of those takes where immediately it's like opening up the lid of something that smells bad, right? And you're like, oh, wait a minute. You're like, no, no, that's the way it's supposed to smell. Get in there.

Well, let's say he's one of the five greatest running backs of all time. Which seems aggressive five games in. Oh, no, I'm not. 40 catches, though. He needs to do it. You're right. I mean, the fact that he has 40 catches and we're not even halfway through the season, that's incredible. And, like, you're picking up on some of the stuff we saw from him in college.

You get him, and he'll have one leg on the ground, and you hit that leg, and that leg pops up, and then he lands on the other one with balance and is still going. His strength, his hip and leg strength, makes him difficult to tackle in a different way. Not saying that other guys aren't hard to tackle, but he has this weird balance power combo. Well,

he's got these, these tree trunk legs and the crazy, we've both seen him new, the craziest balance, but he, he's over, he's over 800 yards from scrimmage already through six games. And week two is a washout because they can do anything.

He, I went and looked up like Chris Johnson had the most yards from scrimmage ever. It was like 2,500. Barkley's on pace to be like one of the top 10 yards from scrimmage seasons ever. And he hasn't even had that crazy, awesome game that we know he's going to have. He's going to have a game where he rushes for 240 yards and also has 80 yards and receiving. And I just think what he's doing with the worst possible QB and the worst possible offensive line, and he's still like breaking plays.

Every time he either gets tackled by three guys or he breaks it. What is he going to be like on a good team? What more would you want from a running back? I just don't know that you could, all of the things you just said can be right. He could end up being, you know,

let's, you can't, it seems, I'm not saying it's a reach, but the odds are that he's not going to be the best running back of all time, just based on only seeing him in five games. But I would, I would be scared of the front office of the Giants.

Be like, did you evaluate all those quarterbacks and you were over all of them? Like you didn't think any of them were going to be good? So that's the question. I want to know whether they were just like, Barkley's going to be the best running back of all time. We have to take him. Or I don't like Sam Darnold enough to pass up somebody who has a chance

to be one of the best running backs of all time. By the way, I don't know if he's going to be the best running back of all time or not. I just know from what I've seen so far, he's the best running back I've ever seen. Barry Sanders was the best make guys miss running back, but he couldn't catch the ball like Barkley can. No, Barry used to get, if we were doing this today, there was a lot of Barry stuff. If you were on first take, you'd be screaming going, he has 20 negative running plays in a month. I used to, the best bar fights.

Can't win with him. Yeah, the best bar arguments in the 90s were Barry versus Emmitt. Yeah. I think out of the non-Boston sports arguments, I think that was my favorite one, other than who won Hagler-Leonard was another great one. Because that was like, you just have two people on opposite sides who are completely convinced they're right.

And for me, with Emmitt and Barry it's like Barry's teams don't win he either breaks the 70 yard run or he gets tackled two yards behind the scrimmage Emmitt just gets first downs Emmitt moves the ball

he's a freaking football player like that guy what did he play with a separated shoulder that year against San Francisco? Well they only reference his shoulder every single snap

so true true true so I remember watching that game who would you rather have in one game? you have Well, they only referenced his shoulder every single snap. True, true, true. So I remember watching that game. Who would you rather have in one game? Barry? Can I get Barry with the Dallas O-line? So you think if Barry had played on Dallas? Yeah, I do.

I think Barry's the better running back. But I don't want to knock Emmitt, but when I think of him with the rushing title, like you went through five running backs and you didn't even mention Emmitt until but when I think of him with the rushing title, you went through five running backs and you didn't even mention Emmitt until I mentioned him. Emmitt's my big game guy, though. You'd rather have him over any other running back late playoff game

other than Saquon Barkley. So, cold weather. He's my cold weather January playoff game. I would want Emmitt. I actually, I gotta be honest. I think Terrell Davis, 97, 98,

Terrell Davis, I'd probably pick. That's why, that was the case for me with him with the Hall of Fame. I was like, yeah, he only played five years, but those two years,

I've never seen a better, just pure hand the ball to somebody and they will get eight yards every time. I've never seen anybody better than them. Now, I wasn't there for OJ, but everybody said OJ was amazing. Yeah, I, I don't't know that's an amazing murderer you murdered two people got away with it

it's not worth coming on the pod unless I can make you do one triple take alright then do you have more stuff you want to do? the only other thing I had for you was Stu Gatz was killing me because I was talking about the demons during the Yankees Red Sox and now watching Yankee Stadium and Stu Gatz was saying how that's bullshit

you guys won 10 titles. There's no such thing as demons. We don't want to hear it. I'm a Jets fan. So then I called in and we argued about it. It was really fun. Oh, you called in to the show?

I called in. They told me to call in. Okay. Let's see. I'll admit, well, 2004 for me changed everything. But can I still watch a Yankees-Red Sox playoff game

and get nervous when we're leading Yankee Stadium? Of course, right. Can that still trigger awful memories from my childhood? But there's a difference when, I think, pre-2004, watching Kimbrel in that ninth, I would be at home going, well, I guess they're just going to lose again.

Yeah, you would lose control of your bowels. Yeah, it's a totally different experience. I'm sitting at home this time going, all right, he'll get this. And there was no reason. There was no reason to think that he was going to get it. God, I didn't feel that way at all. I always expected the Sox to lose those games.

And then, yeah, the 0-4 thing did change for me. And for all the Warriors blew a 3-1 lead jokes, like, where are the Yankees 3-0 lead? I had a manager that ran in. Seriously. Like, there was a manager. He was a Yankees fan from Connecticut. Shocker. And he, although, look, part of Connecticut is basically New York anyway.

So he came in to make some sort of Red Sox joke. And I'm not, you know, Captain Trott Nixon anymore myself. So I was just in a commercial break and he came in and he made this Yankees joke. And I was like, hey, you really think you make jokes like about the 1918 thing after 2004? Yeah. I was like, you really think that's a good joke? We vanquished it. It's over.

Like they showed somebody in Yankee Stadium, some kid chanting 1918, and people around them were going, dude. Stop it. It's not even a good chant anymore. You're embarrassing yourself. It's really sad that the Yankees won in 09, because this would be so much more fun if we were on 15 years now of, actually more than 15 15 they won in 2000

so it would just be like can the Yankees win a World Series in the 21st century did everything change yeah what happened did the Red Sox flip the curse

the 09 one feels like people forget about it almost I mean I don't I don't even remember who they played who they played Cardinals

Marlins Marlins I don't remember either I just remember being so mad that A-Rod was like coming through in the clutch who they play Cardinals? Marlins? Marlins? I don't remember either I just remember being so mad that A-Rod was like coming through in the clutch finally and then he was in a massive

PD scandal after after he was batting eighth the two the two what if if they hadn't won the title things

I think the Yankees in 09 just from what we would get out of talk radio sports narratives that was the Phillies when the Phillies had an amazing the Phillies had that rotation that you thought okay they're gonna win five World Series in a row

yeah doesn't happen so that narrative that's amazing we both forgot because I as you were bringing it up I go oh my god I forgot who they played so much joy in that decade so that one and then if the Cavs don't win in 16, could LeBron have ever left?

Could he have come to LA without winning a title in Cleveland? I feel like he's stuck there the rest of his career. He obviously could still do whatever he wanted to, but you're absolutely right. The narrative of, I came here to bring Cleveland a title, and then it's like, sorry guys, I tried again. I'm out. Yeah, he-

There's no way he could have left. And they would have hated him with every fiber of their body. He could have, but they would have hated him. But, like, it wouldn't be this. This is— No, there's— This is so— And then the school comes out.

The promise school comes out exactly when he's leaving. He has to win the title, though. Has to. Oh, no, I'm not disagreeing with you. I remember even when I was talking to people in Cleveland when I was there for the finals, talking to people in our section, and they were just sad. I was like, how bummed out are you our section and they were just sad I was like how bummed out are you if he

leaves he's like well he did bring us a title like they were so grateful for that one title that it enabled it he still would have left though you think he would have stayed there I don't think you can leave after that Lee Jenkins puff piece SI cover story

of I mean like if you go back and read that story it's actually bad for him that he actually did leave she's like I'm here now this is my home I'm here for the rest of my life if he's still a taxpayer though because of property and the school right yeah so

are you pro or con Lakers this year for the for what getting the Western Conference Finals they're the most public over are you pro or con Lakers this year? For what? Getting the Western Conference Finals? They're the most public over of all the wins in the over-under this year. Are you serious?

The line actually moved. It went from 48 to 48 and a half. Them and the Bucs were the two. That there's been so much action, they actually had to change the line. No, I don't look at 48 and go, oh my God, that's a stupid number over me. Not at all.

I think it's, until we get to 50, I think it's dumb. I think LeBron is 50 wins a year. I don't care who's on his team. Yeah, yeah, you're over then. I'm way over. Yeah, I'm,

I just don't expect, I expect, I guess what I'm saying is I don't know what to expect lineup wise, except that I think they'll try a bunch of different things the first however many games. I really wanted you to tell me how stupid I was for the Saquon Barkley thing. I would never do.

It's like you're holding back. All right, well, here's the thing. I am anti-running back. I've been anti-running back for a long time, even before the NFL was doing it. I just kept thinking like, okay, look. Maybe running backs are coming back. You're just career longevity. Look at the Steelers.

You know, Le'Veon Bell puts up these absurd numbers, and, you know, their problems are on defense, really, more than anything else. And then Le'Veon, you know, against New England, like, they weren't afraid of him at all. I would never— When's the last time you looked at a team and said, you know, they're a good pick for the Super Bowl.

I think they can really get it because of their running back. I haven't said that about a team in 15 years. So if you, let's say, I think going back to my tandem argument. So QB running back, I think it's got to add up where you either have a top 12 QB and a top five running back or a top five QB and like a top 16 running back. But I think you, both of those guys now have to, at least one has to be elite.

Hate to bring up that word. The other one has to be in the top half. Because I think, as I said before, the way football is being played now, I just don't think you can patch together the Deion Lewis, James White backfield anymore. I think you need somebody with real substance

in that running back spot. Otherwise, because what's happening now is all these teams are playing six, seven defensive backs, right? Yeah, right. You can't do that

against Barkley. No. That's a suicide mission. No, whenever... So if you're doing that and you put a good quarterback next to him, now what do I do?

It's always funny, you know, especially when I was still in Boston. You know, you had left, I think, right after I got there and it was, you'd spend all day being like, I don't know, should when I was still in Boston. You know, you had left, I think, right after I got there. And it was, you'd spend all day being like, I don't know, should the Pats switch to 3-4?

I'm like, yeah, what about the 4-3? I'm like, I see them as a 3-4 team. Yeah, I remember that. And almost none of us really knew what the fuck we were talking about. Right. And then you'd look at the lineup charts at the end of the year and be like, yeah, they paid nickel 78% of their defensive snaps. the lineup charts at the end of the year and be like,

yeah, they paid nickel 78% of their defensive snaps. So we used to sit there and be like, oh, there's 18 4-3 teams in the league,

but there's only 14 3-4s. Like, oh, you don't see it every week. It's an advantage 3-4 and all this stupid shit that we used to debate over and over and over again.

And now it's just D-backs. Yeah, you're right. Peter King wrote about, there was a play yesterday where three different receivers on the Pats were double teamed

on the same play is that even yeah they had eight defensive backs or eight people on coverage and they rushed three and three different people were double teamed

I think that's where football's going you can't do that if the other if the running back out there is incredible so I don't know we'll see, I'm not

like dismissing this as, oh, this is so stupid. I think it has more to do with the quarterback. It has to do with the Giants, Eli looking washed, going, okay, is this front office really that... So that's different. Right. Okay. But that's a different argument. Like, they mis-evaluated Eli, which was just stupid. Like, go trade for Teddy Bridgewater. Go trade for Brissette.

Go trade for whoever. At least get like a C-plus at quarterback. But is Eli kind of like your Ewing thing? Well, no, because he won the Super Bowl. He's not eligible. Yeah. Ineligible.

Phil Rivers is eligible. If Phil Rivers gets hurt and they win the Super Bowl with the backup QB and Melvin Gordon, that would be Ewing theory. All right. Yeah.

Think about it. Listen. I don't think it's the dumbest thing I've. All right. Yeah. Just think about it. Listen. I don't think it's the dumbest thing I've heard somebody say. I am here to. Okay. Thank you. I am here to predict that Saquon will have a game over the next like three or four games and this will become a real argument.

Just remember, I planted my flag in this turf first. Done. Thank you. Thank you, dual threat audience. You're welcome. Come by anytime. Before we do mailbag and the trivia stuff, I want to tell you a little bit about our guys at Bespoke Post. When you're constantly grinding away at work or out with friends, there's not much

time to think about upgrading your style or apartment, but the guys at Bespoke Post scout for quality and unique products that you can get once a month in a box of awesome from boxofawesome.com. To get started, visit boxofawesome.com and answer a few short questions. The first of each month, you'll receive an email with your box details. Then you can edit colors, change sizes, or skip it if you're not feeling it that month. It's pretty simple. Like, hey man, I'm super into this. Look at these coasters. You know, when you're younger and you have some sort of table decorative thing, like I wasn't super into the decorative stuff. And then, you know, if you have people visit,

I had a couple staying with me and they're like, where's all your stuff? Like, oh. Grandparents pop up. Yeah. I didn't know I was supposed to have like little trinkets and whatnot on the house, but it's not really a home until you have that stuff.

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Bespoke post, theme boxes for guys that give a damn. So a little music here, and I guess you guys, and I appreciate it. It means a lot to me. This is speaking to my brother, who's now a father. You can check out his stuff on SoundCloud, Euphony. It's E-U-F-O-N-I. I know that they had to change it there may have been some skateboarder or something that named himself euphony or i don't know i i think my

brother wanted to stay out of the legal system so we uh we always use my brother's music i think for the most part that's all we use kyle right do we use just his music or we use i don't want to confuse anybody uh we use two types of music the intro is something else but the intro is something else yeah and he owns the he owns the mailbag, though, for sure. Right, that's his mailbag. All right, so, well, at least that's his music. It's actually my mailbag, so you can step the bleep off. All right, let's do a couple of these,

then we'll get to Fowler Trivia. Live mailbox. Again, I'm just doing these on the fly. I'm not even, I'm just randomly picking your questions at Ryan A. Rosillo. All right, where do you think Kevin Durant goes next year? box. Again, I'm just doing these on the fly. I'm just randomly picking your questions. Alright. Where do you think Kevin Durant goes next year? Well, we'll be addressing that on the Russillo Show ESPN pod,

which we're taping tomorrow. We almost taped today. I don't know, man. The easiest thing for me to say is I don't know about a bunch of these questions as far as the future, but I think there's a real threat that he leaves Golden State. I do. I wasn't sure that I was used to that. What supplements are you crushing for pre-workout these days? I'm not afraid of a pre-workout mix. I'm not. And to the point where then it becomes the sort of thing where you have it in your head

that you have to have the pre-workout before you work out, which I think is BS and bad, but I'm admitting it to you. So I'm apologizing. I normally have to change up the pre-workout all the time because I become immune to it. As a Bills fan, why do I keep doing this to myself? That's from Ethan. I don't know, Ethan. But boy, it's going to feel great once it happens for you, right? I don't know when that's going to be. This is James. What would you be like if you grew up in today's generation? Fitness Instagram account, snap streak with Van Pelt. I would definitely have been in better shape earlier. With Instagram and everybody bragging about the workouts,

I just expect to be walking around seeing more fit people. But I don't feel like the Instagram to normal ratio is a great representative of, a great representation of what's actually going on out there. You know? I think people just like me like, yeah, I was in the gym again today. Although there was a girl at our Manhattan Beach Equinox. This is a good story.

And she was stunning. I mean, it was awkward how hot she was at the gym. And then a girl came up to her and said, I'm a huge fan. And blah, blah, blah, blah. Can I get a picture with you? And the whole deal. And so I didn't know who she was. And then another dude who I'm not going to name names here.

He was like, I think she's some famous Instagram model or something. You know? And I said, yeah, yeah, something's going on. Because it was, there's attractive people. And then there are people that you're like, what is going on here? And every dude was, you know. The Tyreek Hill of Instagram models. Right, right, right.

Exactly. She stood out among the other, you know, great looking people at the gym. And some people were asking for pictures. And then I'd said jokingly to one of the guys who's, well, let's just say he's an athlete. And I said, hey, will you do me a favor and we'll stand near her and you come up to me and you ask me for a picture. We'll act like you don't know me, but in front of her so that she notices, come up to me and be like, hey, is it cool if I get a picture with you before you leave? And I'll say yes. And then we'll take a picture together. And he thought I was

serious to the point where I had to stop saying it because I go, no, no, dude, I was kidding. He's like, you were serious. I go, I definitely wasn't serious. I definitely wasn't serious. All right. How about this? This is from Andrew. He wants a Kyle Life update. That's you, Kyle.

Me? Yeah, you're Kyle. That's me. Yeah, not Kyle Lowry. I'm doing well. There's one too many people living in my apartment, in my bedroom, trying to get on out of there. What's going on?

I just, my best bud from New York moved out with me and has lost his job in the last couple weeks how did he lose his job uh it was a pizza place he shouldn't have had the job he's working at a pizza place that went under people were stealing from there and uh so now sounds like a felony yeah yeah we're sleeping in the same room and i hate it so that's that's what's going on with me um will the brocket ship win the super bowl by one or two possessions hashtag fins up that's from justin i'm gonna say no Will the Brockett ship win the Super Bowl by one or two possessions? Hashtag fins up. That's from Justin. I'm going to say no. Although I was reading

something. I don't know if I saw it on Twitter. They said Brock Osweiler is like the best ever at snap count. Wow. When you start getting the snap count stats, I guess. I didn't know if anybody was tracking that. That seems like a good Wednesday content show thing where you could go, all right, top five snap counts.

And who needs to improve their snap count? Will Shea Serrano have his own pod with a ringer? That's not my department. Good luck to him, though. James wants to know, the Trubisky stuff looked good this week. He says, I'm skeptical, but some big boy throws lately.

I'm still skeptical, but I know they could have some points. This is for Alex's dating advice for someone who stays up watching a lot of games every night. I would just move Alex to the West Coast because the games are over. Although 9-ish 30 is still probably late for dinner unless you're from

Madrid. This is John. He wants to know if Nathan Peterman is the worst NFL player of all time. That one I feel like we need to do more research on. So I'm going to hold off. Oh, people wanted a Nike stock update. The stock market was just getting smashed at the end of last week. So that bringing down Nike five, six bucks a share, which is where it's at. Where's Nike today?

Nike is, I love doing stock updates. So, so, so, so, so. Nike's at 75 bucks a share today as of this taping and it's fallen off this week. But yeah, the Dow is, the Dow is down well over a000 points from where it was last week. So, you know, some of the bigger companies are a big part of that, too. Like, if you look at any company, you'll be like, why is this happening? Sometimes it's specific to your company, and sometimes it's not even remotely specific to your company. So, man, it almost sounded like I was sticking up for Kaepernick on that one.

But really what I was sticking up for was the truth. Okay, a little Chris Fowler trivia. on that one but really what i was sticking up for was the truth okay a little chris fowler trivia this running back has over a thousand yards already in this season at the college level daryl henderson you