The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Bill Simmons on Remembering Marvin Hagler. Plus: Jeremy Lin

Episode Date: March 15, 2021

Russillo rebrands a segment and shares his thoughts on Victor Oladipo, Donovan Mitchell, and Deandre Ayton (2:00) before talking with Bill Simmons about the great Marvelous Marvin Hagler (14:00). Then Ryen talks with Jeremy Lin about his career, remembering "Linsanity," playing in the NBA G League, and working to return to the NBA (54:30). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:19:20). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My favorite moment probably in the history of boxing is after Hagrid knocks him out and they figure out Hearns isn't going to make it in time for the belt. They stop the fight. And Hagrid's corner is on the right. All he has to do is walk to his guys, right? Anyone who wins, they walk right to their guys. And Hagrid does this fuck you walk,

goes diagonal right by, with his hands up, walks by Hearns like one last kind of fuck you, dude. And it's just like, that's who Hager was. He was really spiteful. He was the toughest dude on the planet and really thought he could beat anybody at any time. You were never beating him. Loaded podcast for you on a Monday. Bill Simmons and I will talk about the great life of a legend we lost this past weekend, marvelous Marvin Hagler, and some NBA news,

and Jeremy Lin on his life and where he's at trying to get back in out of the G League. We're going to call this 10 minutes or less because I don't like any of the names that I've come up with so far. And honestly, at this point, when I hit one, it's great. And I think TV in a weird way, the better the title is, even if the segment isn't all that great, the better the segment ends up being. So you figure that one out. I've never figured it out and I could be better at titling with this stuff, but

it just hasn't really worked out. I want to check in with Kyle real quick, how you feel about a rebranding of just this NBA segment. Because I want to call it something, but I can't make it the flagrant three because sometimes I have more than three thoughts. Well, how are you going to make it 10 minutes or less when it inevitably runs more than 10 minutes? That'll be kind of the joke, though. That'll kind of be the joke. So why don't we do this?

10 minutes or less, once a week, unless I don't feel like doing it that week or the schedule changes. I'll start the clock now and see how I do. Okay, first thought here. Watching a bunch of games over the weekend. What else am I going to do? And I want to start with one of the first things. I've been a Victor Oladipo

guy now for a little while. If you think about his career with Orlando, it felt underwhelming. Magic fans, I think you would be in agreement on that one. He didn't really shoot it all that well. And he had like a weird deal too where with his athleticism, he still kind of had a hard time finishing in traffic at the rim. The Rockets

playing the Celtics. The Rockets, by the way, have lost 16 straight. They've been a mess just really about the lineup stuff. I went through it. I don't know if anybody's had more people start a game for him this year. I thought Oklahoma City could be in the running. Houston Rockets now had 15 different players start a game for him this season. Oklahoma City, who I thought Oklahoma City could be in the running. Houston Rockets now have 15 different players start a game for them this season. And Oklahoma City, who I thought would have a chance of being there. But look, shout out Poku. Poku alert. He can pass like crazy.

He hit a bunch of threes. I think he's shooting 17% from three in the last two weeks. But he's getting some run here now. He's not afraid of a shot. But Poku could always pass. Always could pass. And he's showing some of that stuff now. All right, so there you go.

Oklahoma City got me off track a little bit. So back to Oladipo. Here's my history with Oladipo. So I mentioned the Orlando part of it. He goes to Oklahoma City. The second year he's at Oklahoma City, you're like, whoa, wait a minute. This guy's actually like doing some things here, right? He's putting it together.

And then he started that season with the Pacers where it felt like, I thought, you know, he was arguably like an all-NBA, not MVP, but I shouldn't overstate it. He was an all-NBA type player. That's kind of what it felt like. And for that season in 17-18, he was incredible. Played almost the entire year, 23 a game, gets up to 37% from three on six attempts, free throws, jumps up. I mean, Oklahoma City, he took two free throws a game, gets up to 37% from three on six attempts, free throws, jumps up. I mean, Oklahoma City, he took two free throws a game in that last year. But he definitely, look, he just looked better in that second year. But the Pacers year, the first Pacers year is the year that really jumps out. And now I'm thinking, all right, mid-20s, this is who this guy's going to be.

We understand the injuries now have been a huge problem. He's involved in this trade. But when he was available, as he was before this season even started, hey, there's a year left in the deal. What do you do with Oladipo? I felt like people had totally turned the page on him as if he's worthless to even pursue, which I didn't really think was the case. So when Houston brings him in, they obviously liked him more than Levert in all the moving pieces because I'm sure Houston could have called their shot for who they wanted of all the pieces that were involved in it considering they were the team that was moving Harden but I don't know that so I'm not 100% sure and then we know that Oladipo turned down the two

year extension which I don't even know why that news got out because clearly he was going to turn it down you can get a four year for way more money with Houston or even five years if he wants to so I don't know who would maybe the Oladipo side leaks that it was even offered and Houston was just doing it because that was all they could do at the time. And then the agent wanted the rest of the free agent market to know, hey, the incumbent team likes him enough that they're already willing to offer him max years, even though it was only a two-year extension. So it wasn't really that big of a deal. But as I've tried to figure out who Oladipo is, like the numbers are, you know, he had 26 last night. That game was a mess. They were getting smashed. That doesn't really mean a ton.

17 games of the Rockets this year. 21-5-5. The PER isn't all that great, but the three-point shooting has been pretty bad. 30% for them. He was okay with the Pacers. I thought at the bubble, and I've thought at certain times physically, it's

looked better, but what I'm worried about is I look for these moments to be like is he off physically or is he just is it just all this movement is there going to be a stretch for oladipo where everything like looks good again and maybe not peak mid-20s athleticism but are we going to see him be this guy because here's what i'm starting to worry about he might be the kind of guy if you're the rockets or a rockets fan where if you give him a four-year max you're going to be happy until you have him as a four-year max. And you go, you know what?

This is one of those deals that, hey, we got our guy. And there's a ton of cap space out there. So he's probably going to get it at 28 years old. If he puts up some nice traditional numbers, you go, all right, well, this guy's still pretty good. And the Rockets thing, like I said, it's kind of hard to keep track of. But looking at cap space this year, there are a ton of teams with significant cap space and the practical cap space numbers, you know, we're going like seven or eight teams that could probably get to around 30 million. So I think he's going to end up being really expensive, but it's a bit of a warning in that

it may not be a deal that you're all that thrilled with that you actually have, because it just hasn't been enough. I need to see a little bit more. I need to mean. I need to see more from him, but I've been focusing on him a lot, and it just kind of is there. He's going to get some numbers. He's still good enough to do that, but I'm a little worried. All right, real quick, too. The other thing we'll do in 10 minutes or less, homer line, league pass homer line of the week.

The Rockets are always in contention. They had an incredible one last night. They said they're not rebuilding because they have three all-stars, Wall, Oladipo, and Christian Wood, which, you know, I'll allow it. It's a bit of a stretch. And then they started talking Kevin Porter Jr. and Martin. Did you know the Rockets have a Martin? I'm getting the guess. A lot of you don't know that Kenny Martin's son is on the team. But they said, hey, you know, Porter Jr., Martin, they could get there one day. And then the other guy said, yeah, they will. So that's five all-stars right now in this Rockets lineup that I didn't know about.

So that was good news. Okay, Donovan Mitchell. Golden State beats the Jazz. Probably the best we've seen from Golden State's second unit, which usually means impending doom when they roll in. Steph got it going early, but it was really kind of an overall team effort deal with them. Wiseman keeps doing smart things,

although he got benched the other night. So I just think there's a learning thing with Wiseman where he knows the thing to do. He's just thinking way too much. But the story in this one is more on the Mitchell side for the Jads.

This is, I think I've been, I think this podcast would be considered in the higher pro-jazz percentile, but I watched it in that Sixers game, which I still think is one of my favorite games of the regular season, the Sixers overtime win, where Mitchell forced the issue in the fourth quarter. He just did. He was trying to go at Simmons.

It didn't work. And that was after you had had the Jazz really work Embiid on those high screens because Embiid just didn't want to come all, didn't want to come that far out when he was carrying the offensive load because he was so good in that game. And we're going to see that. Look, even Gobert had a hard time, and again, it's Steph,

but he was having a hard time in the screen and roll. They were attacking him in the Golden State game. And Gobert, as great as he's been this year, it was just a difficult spot to be in. Like, it kind of sucks when you're seven feet tall and as great as you can be with your feet and your hands and your arms and all that stuff, you're like, all right, Steph coming off a screen with his handle and his shot range and how quick he gets a shot off. I'm going to look bad in some of these, and I don't know that anybody's supposed to look good in these.

So Mitchell forces the issue a bit in some of these games. Now, clutch stats, we can go through it. Lillards are real, all right? There are some other guys here that are doing some big things. Who's got the most points per game? LeBron right now, clutch situations, five-point differential, under five minutes. That's the sort that I have here. And LeBron's actually, is it the most points?

I think he's the most, excuse me, he's not the most points. Lillard is the most points. LeBron's actually taking the most shots. And if you've watched the Lakers at all this year, especially with Davis being out, the Lakers are just asking LeBron to fix everything at the end of these games. And even with that, as absurd as it is, LeBron's numbers are really good from the floor. There's so many bad shots that they ask him to take at the end of shot clocks. I think we had even talked about that before in some of the other clutch stuff where LeBron was easily like the most attempts at the end of shot clocks, four seconds or less. All right.

So the very, very end. But, you know, some of the other clutch guys that are putting up good numbers like Jokic, good numbers. Zach Levine's played a lot of clutch minutes here. You know, you could go through this and say, well, how many games have you actually played in those clutch times? You know, Colin Sexton is on the lower end of those games because Cleveland's gotten blown out after nice defense the first few weeks of the season. So look, I'm kind of just rambling through this. Steph's got good numbers, 41%, 48% from three in those clutch moments. So I went

through it, and these aren't perfect, right? Because it's also, if you look at Utah, they've blown out so many teams. They have the number one point differential. How many times are they really going to have an opportunity to have these final clutch moments? But Mitchell made the final decision on six of seven possessions,

a six of seven possession stretch where Mitchell was basically the only one making the decision with the basketball. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. But what do we like about Utah? We like that Utah can attack you with ball screen, possession stretch where Mitchell was basically the only one making the decision with the basketball. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it didn't. But what do we like about Utah? We like that Utah can attack you with ball screen initiators. We did it with Legler last week.

So don't listen to me. Listen to Legs. And he was like, four different guys, which is something I've been saying. But four different guys that can kind of get your action. Now, this can become a debate in the playoffs. Why do I want Bogdanovich or Ingles initiating action when I have Conley and Mitchell in a playoff game? I think some of these higher usage things that we've seen over the last half past decade is a little bit connected to analytics where they're like, maybe we should just have the better player having the ball a little bit more. Now, I think there's abusive numbers when it comes to usage where guys are like, all right,

this is ridiculous. But I think that's part of it. And it's actually when you stated that simply kind of makes some sense. So I could sit here and say, hey, I want more ball movement from Utah. What I like about Utah when it's rolling is all these different guys can get the offense starting. Everybody kind of knows their roles. They play connected, which I still think are all true. But there's these Mitchell moments where if you go over Mitchell's career, when it's new and it's exciting and he's the only offensive option, it's like the approval rating is through

the roof, especially in Salt Lake City. He's like, wait, did we just get a superstar this late in the draft when a guy like Gordon Hayward just left? Like, it feels great. When Mitchell was forced into the issue, I was still giving him a pass because I felt like, look, who else is out there? But he'll have,

you know, Westbrook is one angle and then I would put either of the Morrises at the other angle where they just don't want to shoot late. So Westbrook doesn't angle, and then I would put either of the Morrises at the other angle where they just don't want to shoot late. Westbrook doesn't care. Other guys don't really love that moment. They're not 100% comfortable with that. Mitchell is certainly more Westbrook than somebody that isn't comfortable. I'm not doing this to be anti-Mitchell, but if you were really to dig into where he's at with some of the shooting numbers, they're bad. Like in his clutch moments, 15 games this year, 29% from the floor, 20% from three, but it doesn't mean everything. It's just that some of these other guys are still putting up really nice shooting numbers. Mitchell has not

shot it well. That could change tomorrow, but I think there's an overall approach with Mitchell that he has that can be a little bit more challenging to play alongside of when he kind of goes hero mode. The team is better. He shouldn't always have to do that, but we love it when it works. So I'm trying to be consistent, but it's just something I'm going to keep paying attention to. I don't have a definitive answer. I'm not knocking the guy. I'm just telling you, I'll be tracking it. Much like I'm tracking DeAndre Ayton's minutes in the fourth quarter of Phoenix, it would appear the Sun staff has a different plan for Aiton.

He's going to be watching a lot in the fourth quarter. They finished small a couple different times with this Sharich lineup. But I'm telling you, I've noticed going back a month or so ago, and somebody tipped me off on it too, was like, it kind of, you know, Aiton will make his move and he'll go and like Chris Paul and some of those guys don't really give him a ball anymore. I don't think they trust him. I don't think Aiton is make his move and he'll go and like Chris Paul and some of those guys don't really give him a ball anymore.

I don't think they trust him. I don't think Aiton is strong on the catch. You know, it's the big, it's not, you're not entitled to just catch it freely. You've got to still work for the catch a little bit. Although I don't know how many guys even know that considering what post play is like right now. So there you go. 10 minutes or less. 11 minutes.

11 minutes, Kyle. You should every week tell me what the number was. Keep this in. 159.151 pounds with a professional record of 60 wins, two defeats, two draws, and 50 KOs. Ladies and gentlemen, the undisputed middleweight champion of the world, Marvelous Marvin Hagler. The boxing world lost a legend this weekend. We're going to talk with Bill Simmons right now. Marvelous Marvin Hagler, 66 years old, unexpected over the weekend. And we're talking about somebody who is the undisputed middleweight champ from 1980 to 1987. A record of 62 and three, 52 knockouts.

And one of the most dominant fighters in his weight class, stayed in one weight class, Bill. Boston has a unique attachment considering he moved to Brockton from New Jersey as a young age. His story is like a lot of other boxers. He got beat up by a kid who was a boxer and he was like, I want to beat that kid up. Learned to box, lied about his age. I think he was 14, said he was 16 because he wasn't allowed to go to the gym. And then he became one of the greats of all time. It's so funny. He added the marvelous cause he wanted people to call him marvelous and everyone just called him Marvin Hagler or Hagler. So he added the third name legally became marvelous Marvin Hagler. Everyone just called him Hagler. He was like Madonna. He was a one name guy. He was so fearsome. He was so great. He did the shaved head thing well before MJ. I honestly

feel like he might've invented it. He even had it before Lou Gossett in a officer and a gentleman, but you know, I, I lived in Boston basically through after he won the title and he was kind of the guy in Boston, but couldn't get a title shot. And it was one of those things that just would never happen now where everyone was afraid to fight a guy. He was the all-time example of that. He didn't get, I forget when he finally fought Antofarimo, but I think it was like 1980,

something like that. They fought in 79, there was a draw, and then 81 was the rematch. Right. And I watched, I basically watched every Hagrid fight from that first Antofarimo fight on. And that was one where

it seemed like he was dominating it. And then he kind of let up in the last couple of rounds, just enough that it became, are we sure he won? And then he got boned over. But the legacy for me with him, he had three losses. He had two draws.

None of them were legitimate. Even the Leonard one. And Leonard was my other guy. And we'll get into that later. But all five of those were disputed. And you go through the history. Nobody ever actually beat this guy. He had the best chin of anyone ever. He only got knocked down once. It was in the, in the mid eighties. I forget the guy, but it was even that was disputed. And you watch round one of Hearns, which will be his legacy, that whole fight, because it was the great fight we always wanted

him to have. Hearns is hitting with bombs. And at one point, like in the first minute, he kind of staggers Haggar and the announcers kind of mentioned it, but staggering Haggar just meant like he slowed down for a split second and then came back. He's the toughest boxer I've ever seen in my life. I really do. Like pound for pound. He was the man's man of all time as a boxer. He was just going to take down anybody.

He would walk through whatever. He could figure out any style. He could go lefty-righty. And he's one of the best four boxers I've ever seen. Yeah, he... I was going through it this morning because he has a draw. He beat Sugar Ray Seals in his 15th fight.

And I always feel bad for the other Sugar Rays. You ever do that yourself? You're like, there's a lot of Sugar Rays. There's a lot of Sugar Rays. And Sugar Ray Leonard's kind of thought of as a guy when it's really sugar ray robinson but you just if i were named ray and got into fighting i'd be like guys can we come up with another fucking nickname is there any way we could do that so he has a draw with him um later on he loses the bobby watts in philadelphia which was the other haggler deal is

that he wouldn't get fights because he's a southpaw. He was tough as shit. And Frazier's like, good luck. And so he would just go to guys and say, all right, I'm going to show up to your city. Like, you won't even fight me? Fine, I'll go. So he loses to Watts in a majority decision and then loses to Willie Monroe in a unanimous decision. And then he smashes Monroe.

That ended up being a 12th round deal. You're right if you really dig into this. That sets off a run from 1976 until the last fight in 1987. He didn't lose a fight. The Antefermo first one, as you mentioned, a draw, he beats the shit out of him

in the rematch. In his face, even in the first fight, he was pretty banged up, Vito. Yeah, and Vito, to watch the rematch, because I watched it this morning, you have to watch it if you love boxing, or even if you don't, because it's straight out of a movie.

Vito's manager has cotton in his mouth the whole fight, like cotton wads that he pulls from, and Vito's face is just gushing blood, and they'd wipe it off like a windshield wiper, and then it's blood again. And he doesn't want to quit because he's a fighter. And then Hagler comes over after they say he's not coming out. And then the trainers yelling at Hagler that he was dirty. He was headbutting and he's pointing to like Vito smashed up face and Hagler's like, fuck off. And then this old guy with cotton in his mouth starts pushing Hagler. And it's just hysterical because Hagler, he was actually like a tough guy amongst tough guys. He was the most testosterone-y boxer

other than maybe Tyson, but Tyson was younger. Hagler was just one of those dudes. He was like out of an action movie. And, you know, I've tried to get a lot of documentaries done over the years that didn't happen. And two of like the top four ever were Hearns, which we came pretty close to pulling off as a 30 for 30, but, um, how does that not happen with Jalen producing? It just, it, it just fell apart. Cause people wanted to get paid all this

stuff. And at that point, Hearns honestly, wasn't that, uh, wasn't that eloquent either. Cause he had taken so many punches over the years. So we were trying to figure that out, how to do it. We never figured it out. And then the other one I tried to figure out when I got to HBO was Hagler. Even to the point like taking out Bob Arum because Bob Arum basically owns all the fights,

trying to get that done. But the reality was nobody could get to Hagler. Hagler was in Italy. And then he was like back and forth between Italy and New Hampshire. And he lost that Leonard fight and he disappeared from the earth. He walked away, didn't want to talk about anything, never came back. And you look at his last three fights,

I think he might be the only fighter, non-injury, who his last three fights were Hearns, Mugabe, which is an incredible YouTube fight. That's like if you just want to spend 40 minutes on YouTube watching two guys beat the hell out of each other, watch the Mugabe fight. And then the last fight was Leonard and he never fought again. Just about every great fighter ever always has those couple after. And he just did it. He was gone. He was so mad that he lost to Leonard. He disappeared. We never saw him again. The Leonard part of it, you know, I, I, this is where where our age gap usually it's not that big of a

deal but they're concerned like there's a huge difference between 16 17 and 11 and you know I was 11 it was a big deal that we got the fight on pay-per-view at my house like that didn't we didn't do that and that was a big deal so we had people over everybody was pissed off after the decision I'm a little kid so I thought the bolo punches and the feet shuffling were cool. And that's how kind of Sugar Ray won the fight. Like in Sugar Ray had been retired for what, a couple of years and then, Oh yeah. Was it five years? Yeah. Yeah. And so that was a tough one for me because Leonard was, Ali was my first fighter I fell in love with because I had world of sports, 70, 1974, 1975. He was just like a god. If you didn't like Ali, you almost weren't a human

being. And then Sugar Ray Leonard in the 76th Olympics, which was the first Olympics I ever saw. We had the five gold medalists from that, but he was the one that jumped out. And he was on TV all the time. I got to say, I feel like I caught every Sugar Ray Leonard fight that was televised. And he was just my guy.

He was like the new Ali. He was the Ali replacement. I made my dad take me to the Hearns fight in the Boston Garden closed circuit. I made my stepfather take me to the first Duran fight closed circuit in New Haven in 1980. What was the closed circuit thing like? The closed circuit thing was amazing. And I'll tell you this, in the Boston Garden, which was pretty filled, and it was the most diverse crowd I'd ever seen at the Boston Garden, most of the people were rooting for Hearns. So people, you know, that's still the most exciting fight I've ever watched because that fight, the ebbs and flows of it, where it seems like Leonard has him, then it seems like Hearns has regained control, and then Leonard just stalks him, completely changes what his style is and basically hunts him down in the last couple of rounds. That's, that's still like the long, for all the long fights, that's the most excited I've ever

been during a fight. But, you know, you think like Hearns Leonard, uh, the two Leonard Duran fights, the second one was so disappointing with the, uh, Duran basically quitting. Two Leonard Durant fights. The second one was so disappointing with Durant basically quitting. Hagler, Hagler, Hearns. And then everything led,

led to Hagler, Leonard. And that was the one that people had wanted since 1981, 1982. Leonard embarrassed him. Leonard made it seem like he was going to announce this fight with him after he had the detached retina

in 82 in DC. Invited Hagler. And it was like, did that whole speech. He was like, that Marvin Haggar fight, it would be the best fight. It's the fight everyone wants. Unfortunately, it's never going to happen.

And completely embarrassed him. And I think he knew he wasn't going to be able to beat Haggar, especially with the eye thing. But the famous story was he was ringside for one of the HBO fights. I think it was the one before Hearns. It was, uh, it was maybe the Ham show. Yeah. Maybe the roll down fight. One of those. And Leonard was announcing and he was saying, uh, Barry Tompkins

between rounds, like Hagrid looks slower. Hagrid looks slower. If you watch him in the Hearns fight, he does not look slower. He looks like, I mean, it's one of the most amazing performances ever. Mugabe is the one where you could tell the age is starting to get to him. I mean, he had the title for almost seven years, you know? And that was when Leonard was like, I think I can beat this guy. And what he did in that fight was, you know, he basically gamed the system. He figured out something nobody had figured out in a fight before. 12 rounds.

He changed the gloves a little bit, made the ring bigger, and basically tried to steal rounds. I've never seen anything like it, where he would hear the ding-ding with 10 seconds, or the knocking with 10 seconds left, and he all of a sudden would unleash this flurry, and he was like Jedi mind tricking judges,

and it worked. I still feel like he won the fight. Most people think Hagrid won it. I don't think Hagrid, I just think Hagler was slow and just missing punches left and right. I think he was mad. I think he was frustrated. Yeah, he was trying to stalk him. It just wasn't a good Hagler performance.

But people feel like the champ always wins those. I need to watch it again because I fell for all that stuff, the flurries at the end of the rounds. But when people are like, oh, Hagler won, Hagler won, I go, okay, fine. But it's people are like, oh, Hagler won, Hagler won. I go, okay, fine. But it's not an emphatic,

Hagler was, this is not one of the all-time robberies in boxing. I don't see it that way. There's one bad score that when somebody had it, 118, 110, I think that was egregious.

But the other, you know, everyone was around 115, 113 for it. I'll watch it again and maybe I'll think Hagler won it because I'll watch it not as a little kid being impressed by all the flashy stuff. The Hearns thing is kind of, you know,

seeing it on Twitter this weekend, where people hadn't seen it ever before. I think I watch that probably once every six months. I don't know why. I just do. I love it. And I'd argue even prime Hearns, his left is so vicious. It's like as, his left is so vicious.

It's like a gunshot. It's so quick. His reach is bigger than everybody else's in that class. And yet he's probably thought of as the fourth of the, of the four guys during that run. But I have them three. You have them ahead of Duran. I Duran quitting in the second Leonard fight and then getting completely annihilated by Hearns you could argue the Hearns knockout punch on Duran

is the single most perfect knockout punch anyone's ever thrown do you watch it? It's just it looks like when they're showing the Drago in Rocky IV when he's just punching that thing and it's like 2000 grams of power or whatever it's just perfect. And Durant's

out as soon as it hits him. But yeah, I think that the part that it's hard to explain now, especially to younger people was how big these fights were leading up to the fight, where you would have this sports illustrated inside sports, sports, sport magazine, you'd have the talk shows, the guys would go on this whole circuit for two months. And by the time we got to the fight, it felt like the biggest fight in the world. And with Hagler, Hearns specifically, there was so much animosity with those guys. The stare down's incredible. They really hated each other. Hagler didn't respect Hearns. It made Hearns furious.

Hearns was four inches taller. And at that point, Hearns was this killing machine because Leonard had beaten him, but he had kind of reinvented himself. He gained some weight, moved up a couple classes. And they really hated each other. I did an Instagram post on Saturday.

My favorite moment, probably in the history of boxing, is after Hagrid knocks him out and they figure out Hearns isn't going to make it in time for the belt. They stop the fight. And Hagrid's corner is on the right. All he has to do is walk to his guys, right? Anyone who wins, they walk right to their guys. And Hagrid does this fuck you walk, goes diagonal right by, walk with his hands up, walks by her and it's like one last kind of fuck you, dude. And it's just like, that's who Hagrid was. He was really spiteful. He was the toughest dude on the planet and really thought he could

beat anybody at any time. You were never beating him. I know the Arum podcast you did, I don't know, is it two years ago now? Yeah, like three years ago. Is it three years ago? Gosh. Yeah. It was incredible. What did you get out of Arum on this? Because he was all over this and as you said before, he owns these fights

and even Arum seemed like he was scared of him a little bit. Yeah. I just think Hagler was a different kind of cat. You know, he just, he, he was this dude who he had his two people that he grew up with, the Petronellis. He did whatever he wanted. And then when he won the title, he defended it. You know, he wasn't one of those dudes who was going to fight once every six months,

once every nine months, he went to work. I was still living in Boston after he won the title. And I remember when he beat Minter too, because the thing is he had the Gerardo Vito and then Vito loses the title Minter and Minter was English. And Minter had some racial thing where he was something like he said, no black man is ever going to take my title. And then he did the, I was misquoted thing. So there was like real animosity. Hagrid goes to England to fight him. And I remember watching that in New Jersey

at my grandmother's house. And it was so cool that he won. And then immediately the fans just do the most reprehensible thing that I've ever seen a boxing match. They just start throwing beer bottles and all this stuff. So Hagrid wins.

He doesn't even get to celebrate it. His whole corner has to like cover him that I've ever seen a boxing match. They just start throwing beer bottles and all this stuff. So Hagler wins. He doesn't even get to celebrate it. His whole corner has to like cover him and stand over him, make sure he doesn't get like, you know, knocked unconscious by one of these bottles. And that's how he wins the title. And that was kind of tied into the whole Hagler thing of like, even when I win the title, I'm not respected, you know?

And then the cool thing, you know, I remember this pretty vividlyly i think his first two title defenses were in the boston garden that really meant a lot to the people locally right he wins a title he takes it back he's like i'm defending it here and that was a really cool time just in boston sports because bird was there uh ewing was still at Cambridge Ridge in Latin. Hager was the champ. We had all this. Bork was on the Bruins. There was just a lot of energy around the scene and Hager became one of the Boston guys. So when he fought Leonard, I was really traumatized. Leonard was my favorite guy. Hager was my second favorite guy. And I just, I went to Leonard. My heart followed me and I rooted against Hager, the guy that I had rooted for basically in all of these guy. And I just, I went to Leonard. I, my heart followed me and I rooted against Hagrid, the guy that I had rooted for basically in all of these fights.

And I just kind of flipped on him. That'd be like if Zion went to the Knicks and you started rooting for them against the Celtics in the playoffs or something. No, it wouldn't be Zion. It would be, yeah, I don't even know what the analogy would be. But yeah, I mean, it's the most polarizing fight. I've gotten in more fight more fight arguments not real fights but okay emmett smith versus barry sanders and haggard leonard are the

arguments i've been in the most of my life and i'm talking late 80s through the 90s i just have repeatedly found myself into those two arguments so i was reading manic's piece sports illustrated it was really good. And the Leonard thing, this is all the buildup to the Leonard deal. And I guess Petronelli went up with Arum to his house in New Hampshire to try to figure out a way to do the deal because Hagler didn't want to do it. And I agree with you. Part of the fight thing, I think prime Floyd probably beats Pacquiao because Floyd was so impossible to hit. But I would have just rather seen it earlier.

And there's always parts of me when I hear Floyd talk about boxing history, you're like, you don't even know what you're talking about. And you're one of the best boxers of all time. And you can't even be bothered to look up some of the guys that you're shitting on because you're trying to put yourself above them. And I'm not even anti-Floyd. I just don't love when he's dismissive or when ever floyd talked about ali losing a bunch of fights at the end you're like read anything about those

fights and they were pushing him into the ring um yeah and and just cashing the check it's a joke and that's why ali's record you know actually i think like the last three shouldn't count so anyway back back to this piece that manix has so i guess petronelli goes up it tells aram to wait in the car and then Petronelli offers to take less of a cut and then Hagler says no he goes I don't know if I'm gonna fight that pussy but if I do you're taking your third and then once he was in the ring with Leonard he was starting to say like you hit like a bitch you hit like a bitch and as you point out I think it's easy to forget you go oh that fight what happened after that's it he's done never fought again never everybody

else fights again Hagggler didn't and if you want to talk about being different as a boxer as a guy that there you go right there and then i guess not not that longer you know a year two years later ray ran into him they were in vegas there's another fight and marvelous is with you know some people and then ray sees him and then ray goes to aram it goes hey tell him we need to do the rematch. Like this is going to be unbelievable. All this money that we can make, tell him we need to do this. And Aram's like, all right, you know, whatever. So of course, Aram wants to do it. And Aram, apparently, according to the story, goes up to Hagler and says, Hey, let's figure this thing out. And Hagler goes, tell Ray to get a life.

Right. And move to Italy. That was his revenge against Ray. I mean, part of that, though, was Hagler wanted the rematch after the 87 fight. Leonard dragged it along. Hagler finally retired. And then Leonard came back. And he fought Donny Lalonde, who was just a stiff. But you go back through the Hagler fights.

He's fighting all the time, right? He's fighting two, three, four times a year, two or three times a year. But then after Hearns, which I think took a lot out of him, because if you watch the Mugabe fight, he's at an advanced stage. It's like watching Jordan in the late 90s in those Utah series where physically he's just not the same. And they have a war. So the combo

of the Hearns and Mugabe, he doesn't fight again for 13 months until the Leonard fight. I think he knew. You also had a lot of those wars in the early 70s, in the late 70s and stuff like that. The one, if going through the one that was most surprising was the Duran fight, which was a lot closer than I think people kind of remember now. And that's kind of the lost fight of all those guys. All those, the four guys, they all fight each other at least once. And Duran at that point was a depreciating asset because he had lost to Leonard and he just, people weren't sure about him. And then, you know, he kind of reinvented his career in that Hager fight and almost beat him and was coming on. And then Hearns destroys Duran in his next fight.

And that leads to the Hager-Hearns. But what was cool about it for me, just as a fan in the 80s, was Leonard's my guy. You have Hearns, who's 147 pounds, 6'1", and is just the most fearsome knockout guys ever. pounds, six foot one, and is just the most fearsome knockout guys ever. You have Duran, who's hands of stone, who really like turns the first fight into a street fight with him and is considered the toughest, you know, non-American fighter in any weight class. And then you have Hagler, who was like, almost like out of a movie. You know, again, like black guy, shaved head, out of a movie. You know, again, like black guy shaved head, um, the way he carried himself, there were no other boxers like him. Like Ernie Shavers had, I guess, a shaved head in the seventies, but he wasn't menacing like, like Hagler was. So he had these three rivals for Leonard.

And once he beat Benitez, it just seems like, all right, these are going to be the three guys that he's going to have to go through, you know, and everyone gravitated to Leonard. And then you had the, the, the Rosillo type people doing the zag, like now Ernst is my guy. Fuck Leonard or Hagrid's my guy. I like the Rand. I don't care that he quit in the second fight. So Leonard became this polarizing, almost like in wrestling where that, where Hulk Hogan wins the championship. He's also a pretty boy. He's the pretty boy. Yeah, he's the pretty boy. It's like not cool to like him anymore by the mid-80s.

It's America's sweetheart, the 76 thing. And Arum, you know, in the piece, and I'm referencing Mannix again here because it's just so good, but Arum talks about Hagler. He's like, okay, you know,

he's watching the golden boy, Sugar Ray, here. You know, everybody loves him. Everything's working out for him. And Hagler can't get a title shot and the funny thing is is that Ted Kennedy then a senator and Tip O'Neill speaker of the house is Boston guys jump in and tell Arum there's going to be an investigation if they can't get Hagler some real fights so Hagler's like look I beat the shit out of this guy enough of this I've

proven myself all the time like let, let me get a shot. And, you know, boxing is so hard to keep track of now that, you know, you start having people who's like weight class. Like I used to know the rankings of everybody. I would know like the top five rankings in the major weight classes. I'm not saying every single one of them,

but I would know. Yeah. And you always knew that the promoters were involved and kind of, you know, setting it up the way they'd want to set it and people would be, but the amount of ducking that would happen,'s why i think the ufc is so popular is that there's no ducking like eventually i mean i'm not saying there's zero but eventually

dana white's going to make a couple guys fight each other and boxing has never really figured that part of it out and for haggler at this time it was even worse because there wouldn't really even be the public demand and then you have managers taking a 33 cut on the purse which is absurd it's just accepted because that's the way of doing business and honestly guys are getting even the public demand. And then you have managers taking a 33% cut on the purse, which is absurd. It's just accepted because that's the way of doing business. And honestly, guys are getting

screwed over way more by promoters anyway, if you look back at the history of that. But then to have Arum go, and as he quoted in the piece, he goes, I wasn't looking for any trouble.

And then Hagler starts getting taken care of because politicians from Massachusetts got involved in it. Well, there was this other thing that was going on. So post Ali, Ali basically is done in 78,

even though he fights a couple more times. And Leonard becomes the anointed successor, right? Yeah. That's a perfect way of describing it because it's like, all right, who's the guy? You've now handed the torch to Leonard, but you also had Hager and you had Larry Holmes. And both of them were kind of playing the

same card of like, I'm not getting my respect. People don't realize how good I am. The difference was with Hagler, it was a hundred percent legit. And he was kind of lost in the shuffle because it was such a grit. The welterweight middleweight was such, it was so loaded. He did get lost in the shuffle a little bit unfairly to him with homes. People just didn't really like homes. And that's just the way it was. Holmes was, I remember I did a whole thing in a column a million years ago, comparing homes to the late eighties Pistons, where it was the same thing where it was like, it was like, yeah, you guys are great, but is it okay if, if we're not all sitting on each other's lap telling stories about how great you are? We just don't really like you that much. And it was very similar to, you look back at like, especially

the 89 Pistons where they would go 63 and 19. They ripped through the playoffs. It's one of the five best teams ever. And people are like, yeah, fuck those guys. And that was what it was like for Holmes. Hagler was different. Hagler had the same kind of, I'm not getting enough respect thing, but then he won it. He beat Duran. He beat Hearns. He proved to be, you know, he had the title for seven years. And then it was the culmination was supposed to be Leonard. And I think that's what destroyed him was it was like Leonard would be the last piece. He could be the only one who said, I beat Hearns to reign Leonard. A 3-0 against those guys. And I'm going to walk off in the sunset. And then he felt like Leonard stole the fight. And then there was this whole thing at the end of the fight where Leonard says allegedly something like, man, you beat me,

or you got me, or something like that as he's congratulating him. And then Leonard wins. And Hearns is like, Leonard even told me right after the fight that I beat him. And Leonard's like, no, I didn't. But then they had the HBO, like the mics and stuff and Leonard did say it. He said like, man, you beat me or something like that. And I think that was one of the things that enraged Hagrid so much. He's like, even

fucking Leonard thinks I beat him. And he was just bitter and he went to Italy. We never saw him again. So a couple things. The Ali part of it, it also ties into the Holmes part because Ali was, when he should have probably been done,

was 55-2. And that's with a loss to Norton where he had a broken jaw and made it to a split decision. And then the Frazier loss is after... The first one's legit. The first Frazier loss was a legit loss. But it's Bonaventure before that

and Jerry Corey, and that's after losing years really in his prime. He came back as a different fighter because his body had changed. So I'm not saying the first one isn't legit, but it's not ideal to fight Frazier after two other fights

after you've missed fighting for almost four years. He talked a lot of shit though. I love Ali, but he was basically like, I'm now here to take back my title and Frazier beat him, you know? And it,

there was definitely ring rust, all that stuff. No question. But, um, it's funny cause that fight, the 50th anniversary of that fight was recently. And I saw the end of PTI when Wilbon and Cornizer was talking about it.

Wilbon said it was the biggest sporting event of his lifetime. And I actually agree with that. And it's so funny with sports as the years pass, like stuff kind of just loses its impact. But the first Frasier-Ali fight really probably was the biggest sporting event of all time. I think it was the most important. And other than maybe the USA beating USSR in 80.

But stuff gets lost over time. Now I feel left out. I'm trying to think of what mine is. Let me tell you, for me, it's the 80 USA USSR is the greatest sporting moment of my life. But Hagrid Hearns was probably the greatest 10 and a half minutes of my

sports life. I can't tell you. The other piece of that that gets lost when people remember that fight. Cause it really seemed like they might stop it. Right. So in third round, he Richard Steele checks the cut. Yeah. So now you're thinking like, and he's just like gushing blood. And that was during an era when they would stop fights. So you're thinking like, shit, Hager has got a round and a half here to maybe, to maybe get him. And Hearns could do that thing where he could dance around and use his reach.

And it seemed conceivable they were going to stop the fight. And it would have been, you know, an all-time bummer of an ending. And then Hagrid's like, fuck this, I'm stopping it myself. And you like, they have, if you watch that fight on YouTube,

they have the overhead replay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of how he finishes it. This overhand sweeping thing that just hits Hearns on the side of the head. And then he follows him, nails him again with a right. He misses a left and then hits him again with a perfect right. He's basically like three for four perfect punches to finish a guy that was probably going anyway. For Hearns, that was why I wanted to do a documentary about him

so bad. He, he was the greatest kind of sports movie foil for the hero in the sports movie for two different guys. It's the Leonard fight and the Hager fight. He became, those became two of the great sports movies of all time as boxing fights. And he's kind of the other guy in the fight, you know, that you don't really think about. He's the kind of the other guy in the fight, you know, that you don't really think about. He's kind of the prop to raise the hero. And meanwhile, those fights were great, partly because he was so great. And he really was.

And if he's born five years too late, five years too early, his whole career is totally different. He just had the misfortune of going against two of the best fighters ever. Yeah, quick. Like, again, I'll say it one more time because I was watching it. ever yeah quick like again i'll say it one more time because i was watching it prime hearns left hand is you can't believe how fast it is for a guy that size and lethal he's not just tapping what it's it's absurd um you know i'm not enough of a historian to put it up there with like what are the five most dangerous punches in boxing history across any class or something like that but as far as jabs as far as southpaws it's just it's stupid what it's like and he gets haggler and he said i mean he nails haggler in the first round a couple times you think haggler's in serious

trouble he's cut open but the the funny thing about the finish and again it's not funny but i mean it's you know whatever Hearns is in outer space. Like his eyes change to a completely different human being. And I can't believe that you caught that. I guess, look, this is one of your favorite things ever. So you've seen it. But when Hagler walks by him, you're right. Like he veers off and Hearns is finally standing up and Hagler like does it.

It is the opposite of these makeout sessions we have in the UFC now where somebody just demolishes someone and then they're all over him, patting him, hugging him, telling him they love him, which I thought it was great

because a fighter recently was like, hey, I hate that shit. Can we stop doing that? It's funny because we always try to compare people to Michael Jordan

and whatever and then we do the last dance and we go through the whole thing about how ruthless of a competitor Jordan was, all that stuff. For me in my lifetime, Hager is the only person that reminded me of Jordan, where the way he was wired, how cutthroat he was, how ruthless he was, how fucking tough he was. And he was always going to get better whoever he was going against.

He could do any style. He was one of a kind. And I just, to me, he was like the Jordan of, of that division. I think historically he's, it's weird. You see, like, he's like the sixth best middleweight of all time or the fourth best middleweight. I, I feel like he was the best fighter of the eighties personally. Um, Just because he'd fight anybody. He could fight any style. He could be in a war. He could box. He could switch hands.

He was just the hardest guy to fight. I think it's close. I do. Part of the problem with Tyson was he never, he was just fighting all these dudes that were either washed up

or they were kind of never wases, you know? And then he had so much shit going on in his personal life that it derailed him almost immediately. Hagler was an assassin. I have an unbelievable Hagler story for you. Go ahead. You're really going to love this.

Okay. My uncle Bob, my dad's brother, my dad's brother. My dad's the oldest, but my uncle Bob is the second oldest. Also a doctor? No. I've had a lot of great times with my uncle Bob. Really love my uncle Bob.

Spent a lot of time together. I copied half of his basketball game almost unsuccessfully, but really love my uncle Bob. He moved next to Marvin Hager in the mid eighties. They, Marvin Hagler was his next door neighbor. And you go to Michael Bob's house, it was Eastern or Brockton. I can't remember. I think it was Eastern. And, uh, and there were a couple of times when Hagler was like in the backyard. And this is like, you know, I'm a little kid. When do you ever see famous people unless you go to a sporting event and it's like,

oh, he's in the backyard. Like we would like lose our minds. It was fucking Marvin Hagler. He just had this random house in Easton with a couple of kids and like the above ground

swimming pool and shit like that. And it was just like, this guy's like the best fighter alive. He's right there. He just couldn't believe it. But he was like a God in Boston. He really was.

I think the level he got to was certainly the biggest of any boxer. It was certainly the biggest of any, you know, he's a level below like the bird Bobby Orr type. But I think he was a god in Boston. There's no question. When he beat Hearns, that was like a Boston title. Yeah, people were saying, look, he was the fifth major

sport in that city for the decade. That's why I was so traumatized with the Leonard thing, because Leonard was like my all-time guy. And it was like, God, it's like he's fighting a Boston team. But I just couldn't turn on Leonard. I'd been with him since I was six. So it was a tough one.

Great fight. You know, the other thing about that weekend, the weekend before was Andre the Giant Hulk Hogan I didn't know that it was back to back felt like the two the biggest boxing fight ever

and then the biggest wrestling match ever and I think I think Wrestlemania was before that but it was back to back yeah

no that's good because because I mean, you could make a connection that both decisions were sort of scripted. Yeah, I look, we should litigate this on my podcast. I need to watch it again. We should just do a Hager-Herns or Hager-Leonard breakdown at some

point. Yeah. I just feel like he's, he just seems slow and like he doesn't have control of the fight ever. 84% of his original quickness. Oh, I would, I would go like 65, 66, 67%. But, um, but that dude had had a lot of fights at that point. The, um, the him, that fight, did he fight Vito again? I don't think he did. Oh, the other good one with Hagler was this is a good YouTube one. When he fights Hamshaw again, the second one.

They have the rematch. And Mustafa Hamshaw, he's out of a movie. And he starts headbutting Hagler in the fight. And he does it like three times. I think he has the points taken away. And at some point, Hagler's just like, all right, you motherfucker.

And he just like destroys him but that's a good one it's like a four-rounder I think Hagler if you're talking about who gives the best YouTube for boxers right that's got to be one of the boxing legacy definitely who gives best YouTube how does like a nine out of ten for giving YouTube I watch Tyson stuff all the time. When I read the Tyson Sloman book, which if you haven't read it, it's unbelievable. Yes, there's a lot of drug use. Towards the end, I'm like, okay, you really partied, man.

I got it. But what I was doing, because Tyson goes through every single fight, and so I would read the chapter on the fight, and then I would go back and watch the Tyson fight on YouTube. So you start at the very beginning, and so it was like this exercise where you go through and do all this stuff Hagler is up there I'll watch the prince's entrances and then I just close out of the fights

for the most part um but yeah look he beat Watts he beat Monroe after so I actually think anyone he lost to other than the Sugar Ray thing I don't think he avenged the Sugar Ray fight and I don't think he avenged Vito even though and I don't think he avenged Vito, even though Vito ended up losing the title. The other thing with Hagler, and this is kind of an underrated skill, but he was a good talk show interview person.

He could go on Carson and Letterman or whatever and kind of hang. Whereas Larry Holmes, you'd see him at a talk show, you know, whereas like Larry Holmes, you'd see him in a talk show, you'd be like, oh no, you've made me like you less.

But Hager and Leonard were both really good at that stuff. And that was one of the reasons that fight was so anticipated. To me, it's like the last super fight. I don't feel like- You think that's the last one? I think for the 80s version of them, I think they move into something, they move into a different kind of machine after that.

But I'm saying for the, for the eighties super fight, the way it was done back then with like the magazines, with the anticipation, um, it's early pay-per-view, you know, like the pay-per-view thing really didn't get going until the mid-80s. It was closed circuit in the early 80s. And then finally we figured it out and then it became its own kind of machine. But up to the mid-80s, it was Sports Illustrated, Inside Sports, Sport Magazine. It was a couple talk shows and maybe a little sports center. We didn't have have PTI. We didn't have 24 seven sports radio, all that stuff. The sports babe.

Yeah. You didn't have any of it. So you built the, you built it up by these guys doing these tours and going to different cities and getting the local thing. And that, that was kind of the last version of that. Teddy Atlas said this week and he goes,

he wasn't Bill. He wasn't born with a silver spoon. He had no spoon. Right. He had a real attitude, too, about it. You know, and I think that was the cool thing. Look, the fact that if he wins that Leonard fight, I think there's probably a rematch, right? I don't know with Hagler.

Probably. I don't know with Hagler. Probably. I don't know. It's a good what if because I do feel like if he wins that fight, I do feel like then he has the typical arc of the guy who has three fights too long. But he was so mad that he lost the fight,

he just left. He's like, I'm out. I'm going to Italy. I'll make movies. You're never seeing me again. And that was it. And boxers never do it. He did it.

Thanks, Bill. Thanks'll make movies. You're never seeing me again. And that was it. And boxers never do it. He did it. Thanks, Bill. Thanks, Priscilla. Nine seasons in the NBA, and right now he's with the Santa Cruz Warriors. It is Jeremy Lin. What's up, man? Thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. This is pretty cool. Okay, so let's start where you're at now.

You're putting up numbers, although I've had you're at now. You're putting up numbers, although I've had a long standing theory. I look, you're putting up good numbers. You're hitting threes, assists, 20 a game. I've always kind of made a joke, like whenever I'm watching league pass and they'll show some of the prospects in the G league, it'll be like, you know, so-and-so had 38 and 20. And I'm like, what the, like, everybody seems to be getting buckets in that league. And I'm not saying that, but where are you now with all of your accomplishments? You're still only 32. I know you want to get back in the league, so I want to cover it all. But where are you right now

kind of taking this step in your NBA, hopefully NBA career? I mean, I think for me, I'm just in a place where I just feel great physically, mentally. And I feel better for sure, without a doubt. Like I feel healthier than I ever was. And. Like I feel healthier than I ever was.

And I feel mentally way beyond where I ever was. And I think that's the biggest intriguing thing is, you know, when I was growing up, one of my coaches always said, the game is 90% mental. And I was just like, what are you talking about? And he was a professional athlete. And he played in the minor leagues and MLB and stuff like that. And he was like, the game is 90% mental. And I never understood

what he was talking about growing up. And now I'm kind of like, no, I get it because everyone at that elite level has talent and things like that. But it's the ones that have another level of confidence or another gear mentally or the ones that can stay locked in or be consistent and the ones that know what they in or be consistent and the ones that

know what they're capable of and see it through. And so for me, where I'm at is I know what I'm capable of. I've gone through a lot of stuff in the past. I've been injured. I've worked hard to rehab from these injuries. I've gone through different experiences. I know who I am as a player and I know I belong on the NBA floor. And so I'm just pursuing that right now. And, uh, you know, fresh off the G league bubble, um, I feel pretty good about everything. And, um, and I'm really proud of, you know, the way that, you know, not just me, but me and the Santa Cruz Warriors team was able to play. And one of the things I said at the end of the interview was like, man, I was a part of the G league team where we were all bought into the team. And that isn't always the case.

I don't know how you'd answer this because I have it written down in my notes, but I know how athletes are. If I ask, hey, are you a better player today than you were when you were going on your run? And you also want to get back in the league, so you're probably going to say yes. But can you give me a detailed version

of what an answer like that would mean? I mean, you're probably going to say yes. But can you give me a detailed version of what an answer like that would mean? I mean, you're only 32. So it's not like you can't still play. But the evaluation of you not being on an NBA roster, when you really are critiquing your own game, where do you think you are now compared to the guy that was in the league for a long time? Yeah, that's a great question. Of course, I'm going to say yes.

time yeah that's a great question of course i'm gonna say yes but i think um i would actually you know encourage anybody who wants to know to to look uh at the film or to understand and analyze the stats in terms of like where i'm at now and i think one the most obvious one is i've never shot it the way that i've shot it now. I made some changes to my form and I made a lot of, you know, headway in terms of mentally clearing myself so that I'm not coming onto the court with, you know, all these different weights that were on my shoulder that I had. And that's a whole nother, you know, topic or question that we can discuss later but I'm coming into the court with more like freedom and just lack of thinking or lack of you know uh built up trauma from the past and that's allowed me to just you know use this new shot that we've been working on for the last

few years and and so the percentages are way higher um the percentages are actually i think i set a career high in every single shooting category um in terms of field goal percentage and you know i think i shot like 50 from the field 43 from three and 88 from the free throw line um and so for me you know that was a testament to everything all the work that we put in but also knowing that like hey i believe i'm a great shooter now and i'm just going and i went out and i showed it um and and that's one thing and then and then obviously if you compare where who i was you know what are the top three knocks that everybody was saying for me through my whole career uh one was always shooting two was can he drive left

um and that was a huge knock and if you watch again the g league footage it's it's uh you know people are trying to force me left but then they're realizing oh he's going in the left he's shooting floaters now like i'm not just getting to the rim i'm shooting floaters i'm shooting mid-range like i can score at all three levels um and so you know a lot of teams by the end they were putting their small forward or power forward on me or they're double doubly teaming me at times um and so that was kind of just like hey i'm not as one-dimensional you can't just force me left and then call it a night um and then the last one was defense and for me for us in the g league the santa cruz team we were second uh we're the second place team but we also the second best defensive

rating um and and and for me just drawing charges help side communicating talking making sure we're all on the same page with game plan and coverages um and being able to play defense and that's something where i literally spent two to three summers and it would be like we would do workouts where i never touched the ball i was guarding the whole workout 50 minutes hour of just footwork or posture work or defensive slides and things like that and so i think that's the cool part about it is i know that the top and the main the main perceived weaknesses of who i was as a player um you know i've been able to do a lot of work to to undo those and then the last one that we've heard a lot recently is health right which is an interesting one to me because you know i was hurt for two straight seasons but now i've shown that i've been healthy for three straight seasons but people are still talking about my health

which is always something that like i found really intriguing is like look i've shown you for three seasons now and and in the off season last off season i've shown you for two straight seasons there's footage that i'm healthy why is everyone still questioning my health and that was always something that was really weird and i remember i got hurt you know a day after gordon hayward right like and gordon hayward no one's questioning his health two years after three years after like and so that's why for me well i think there'd be some people in boston that would question themselves but that's after he got re-hurt but i'm saying the initial injury right the initial injury after the first six months you're kind of like okay how will he recover what does he look

the same he doesn't look the same and then after six months nine months and a year it goes on and then it's like okay like he is who he is he just signed a massive contract and he did a bunch of great things and he's healthy and he has the right to be called healthy because he's put a lot of work and he looks great uh for me it was just you know this past off season a lot of things that teams were still talking to me about was like are you healthy and my agent was sending all types of film with me playing overseas last year and it still wasn't good enough and so um i feel like i had you know people were like look you know a lot of what i was hearing from the nba execs is hey if you really want to get back in the league and show that you're healthy and you can still play at a high level you have to do it in the g league and so that's what i did

you mentioned um you know kind of getting your mind clear. So it sounds like baggage. What are we talking about here? It sounded like you wanted to talk about it. So, you know, I'm just. It's not. I appreciate that. Thanks for the assist. I think for me, when I was in China last year, as I was playing, I realized I was wrestling with a lot of fears that I didn't typically wrestle with. I remember there'd be times in the game where I'd be like, oh, I hope I don't get put back in the game because, you know, what happens if I go in the game and I screw it up? Or, oh, if it comes down to the last shot, like, and I miss it.

Oh, man. Like, and those are kind of things that I didn't think about. Like, you know, growing up, it was always like the last shot, you better give me the ball. Like, who else would shoot the last shot? And so I was wrestling with a lot of these different fears. And I was like, where are these things coming from? like the last shot you better give me the ball like who else would shoot the last shot and so i was wrestling with a lot of these different fears and i was like where are these things coming from why am i thinking like this and so i ended up getting like a sports coach or you know a therapist basically and one of the first things that he said is if you want to get back to where

you used to be mentally you need to reconcile your past. And so that's what I had to do. I had to reconcile my past. I had to talk through all the different things, the injuries. I realized the injuries not just had a physical trauma. There was a longer lasting mental trauma that I had to go through. Believing that I could be the player that I used to be. Believing all these different things. And then there was a lot of the trauma of like failed situations. Oh, I went to a team and I thought it was going to work out this way and it didn't work out this way.

And so I started to feel like, oh, a lot of these cool scenarios or these new seasons are just setups for disappointment. And I was going in with these like preconceived notions like, oh, this isn't going to work out or, oh, I'm not going to play my best or all these different things that were coming from a lot of the experiences that I experienced as a basketball player in the NBA. And even one that was really, you know, my family was kind of challenging me on this like, hey, there's this thing about growing up Asian American and always having a chip on your shoulder

and always feeling like you have to do more to prove yourself. And if you have one bad game, everyone's going to jump ship and no one's going to believe in you. And so like, I had this like big weight on my shoulder with a lot of the Asian American stuff of like, oh man, if I ever make one, like if I ever have one bad game, like I won't be able to recover from it. Or if I have a one good game, that's never enough. I have to put together three straight good games, four straight good games until they actually believe me. Or if I'm ever even with another player, I'll never be the one that gets that opportunity.

I got to stand out like two steps above and beyond that next player that I'm competing for an opportunity. And so a lot of these things we had to talk through. And that was, you know, so that was the first part was reconciling the past. And then the second part was being able to move to a place and even do mental exercise and things where I was able to go beyond where I used to be. And so the first step was getting to where I used to be. And the second step was getting beyond that. And that's where I feel like now mentally, what people

are seeing is like, you know, one of the best compliments I got from somebody who watched the G league bubble was, he was like, you know, when I watched you play, you exuded a peace and a joy that I've never, that I have never seen you exude before. And I'm like, that's, I'm like, wow, I can't believe you could see that through the screen, like watching me play basketball. Like I had no idea someone could see that. Like, how do you even measure that? But he was just like, no, that was like very evident to me. And I was like, oh man, like this mental work is really working in terms of freeing

myself up to just go and play. Like, you know what they say, play in the zone. Okay. So the news of the last week or so was, was the slur used against you in a game. And I, and I know, I think at first when people saw the headline, they're like, okay, so what is this? And then your follow-up was perfect because it's like, look, you know, everybody can have their story, but to grow up Asian American and know that you're going to be bullied and now maybe somebody will stick up for you.

Can you take us through that moment though? Like what actually, I know you're not going to share his name. I know the league and you've met with the player so everything's being handled on that end but what actually happened in the game uh I mean we just had to stop uh stop play and and um and then uh you know if I get into it too much people might be able to figure it out but it was just uh a chippy game people were talking back and forth and then um basically uh the word was thrown out coronavirus and i didn't know i didn't know if it was directed at me or whatever so then and my teammates didn't know either and they had heard it too and so we kind of, you know, we kind of had a, I was like, looking like, are you talking to me? And then I said like, oh, bro, that's racist. And then, you know, basically it was just, that was basically a little bit more.

And then we just ended up playing a game. But it was during a certain situation in a game. And so it kind of came and went so fast. was like really really fast and then we just finished the game um and that was it and so um i think even at the end my teammates were kind of confused and they were asking me about in the locker room and i was a little confused because it happened so fast um and uh but i mean i think for for me again like the biggest thing about it was just it wasn't about and that's that's the thing is like that was the headline right that was the draw that everybody talked about but in the instagram post it's like 30 sentences and i was

only one sentence and it was a very vague sentence actually the majority of what i want to talk about was just the the violence that is happening towards Asian Americans and to bring that out and to say that like, hey, I'm standing with you and I'm supporting anybody who is going through anything like this or anybody who goes through, which, you know, a lot of my Asian American friends and family, I mean, people tell me like, I don't even want to go to the grocery store. Like I'm scared to go to the grocery store because I don't know, you know, what's going to happen or if people are going to look at me sideways or do something crazy. And so that's a very real issue, um, of, of people being scared to go out. And,

and, uh, and so that's really like what I wanted to bring awareness around. Um, but then it kind of, you know, grew legs of its own in terms of what had happened to me on the court. Um, you know, grew legs of its own in terms of what had happened to me on the court. Um, and, and so that's where we are now. What about your, I imagine it's gotta be frustration. Um, because I think there's, there's a, it shouldn't be, I shouldn't frame it as athlete, but there's just like a sense of, well, when you're out in the court, people say stuff. What's your response to that thought?

Um, I understand it for sure because I'm a competitor, but I think, you know, through certain instances, we've always kind of seen like, you know, and, and, and you hear, uh, it happens a lot, like every season in the NBA, it's like, no, I'm okay with trash talk like we were going back and forth but then he said something about blank and then those are kind of like the unwritten un like unwritten but like known rules that like oh you don't broach that right like you don't talk about my family you don't talk about my children you don't

talk about my wife like that's what a lot of nba players are all saying right like oh once you talk about my wife once you talk about my mom or once you talk about my wife. That's what a lot of NBA players are all saying. Like, oh, why don't you talk about my wife? Why don't you talk about my mom? Why don't you talk about my child? It's off limits. And so I think there are just certain unwritten rules that everybody kind of understands or should understand. But I definitely think trash talk is part of the game,

and I think it's a fun part of the game. But I think there also has to be discretion. I want to go back because we're nine years removed from it, which seems crazy, and that run with the Knicks. I was going through the game log this morning, and I have a couple questions about it. I know you've talked about it nonstop, but you're good at telling stories. You played barely at all at the beginning of the season.

And then you played against Boston. And you played like six minutes, right? You get a couple points. And then the next game against New Jersey, you get 25. And here goes this run for three weeks where I'm looking at the scoring again. 25, 28, 23, 38. You had that game winner, right? That was the Toronto game. We had 27, 26, 28, 23, 38. You had that game winner, right? That was the Toronto game where you had 27, 26, 28, 21.

I mean, this three-week stretch of just putting up huge numbers. What do you now think about when you think back at that run? Now I appreciate it more, and I'm like, man, that was history. That was was history. Like, that was legitimate history. Most points scored in the first four or five starts of anybody, anybody ever in the NBA history. And the run that we were on and the style we were playing and the swag that we were playing with.

And just for us, we were such an underwhelming team prior to that in terms of the expectations versus what was actually happening and then everybody bought in and then like it was just i mean there's just so many things that happen that like you kind of take for granted as you're going through it you're like yeah for sure but then it's like going when you go on team and after that it's like going on teams where like you know you have underwhelming expectations but then you don't rally right and you don't do that or like maybe you have one or two really explosive games but then you don't have that third or fourth one and so a lot of things i kind of just took for granted then like i don't take for granted now i'm like wow that really was incredible

um and and at the same time you know it's just, it's so funny because like the night before in Boston, I remember one of the assistant coaches like, we're actually going to, we're going to use you tonight. We're going to put you into the game. I was like, what? And he's like, don't try to do too much. Okay. And I was like, okay.

And so I didn't do anything that night. I was just, everything's safe. Oh, just pass the ball. Don't drive to the basket. Don't turn it over. And it was just like, I didn't play my brand of basketball. And then the next game, it was just, everything's safe. Oh, just pass the ball. Don't drive to the basket. Don't turn it over. And it was just like, I didn't play my brand of basketball. And then the next game, it was just like, my agent was like, you got to go and you got to play Jeremy Lin basketball.

And that's downhill. That's downhill. That's attacking. That's constantly putting pressure on the defenders, constantly putting pressure into paint. And like, it was just a i was just like oh my it kind of felt like the seed just parted in terms of like i was just getting into the lane non-stop and that's what ended up happening game after game at the game was just the spacing the pace that we

were playing at the pick and rolls the way that everything was set up we had a dynamic roller in in tyson channel we had a dynamic roller in in Tyson Chandler we had a dynamic roller in Amari Stoudemire and we had shooters spot shooters all over the place and then we had certain players who were great at cutting we had everything kind of just flowing and it was just like this perfect storm of just you know uh player talent uh player team chemistry uh role and fit, great coaching. Like it was just everything that flowed together. Okay.

Did you have moments where you're like, is this fake? Like I'm, I got 28 and now tomorrow it's all going to be over. Like, did you have moments of going, I'm having a hard time believing I'm on this kind of run? Oh, for sure. I mean, that first game, that first game. So my career high up until that point was 12 points right my rookie year and then i went to the knicks so in the boston game like you said i had like six points or something um but like in the first game when i got put into the game

against the nets that breakout game i remember i came in and i had four points and i like in like the first like you know five six minutes and so you're you know start of the second quarter or like midway through the second quarter I have like four points and I'm like thinking to myself like this is a great game this is already a great game this is a great half I'm full I have four points like that's a lot that's a lot you had two against Boston by the way you missed every shot you took. Oh, I had two points. See? So I was like, okay, I have four.

I already surpassed last yesterday. And I'm already a third of the way to my career high. Like, when your career high is 12 points, if you score two points in a game, you're feeling good. You know? So I had four points at the start of the second quarter. And I'm like, dude, I'm good. I'm good here.

And then I had eight at half. I remember this vividly. I had eight points at half. And I'm like dude I'm good I'm good here like and then I had eight at half I remember this dude I had eight points at half and I'm like if I don't score I literally said to myself if I don't score again this half like it's still a solid game I had eight points and then the second half came around it was just like and I just got in the zone I stopped worrying about my contract and whether I was gonna be guaranteed or not I stopped worrying about okay well if I get cut for the third time this going to be guaranteed or not. I stopped worrying about, okay, well, if I get cut for the third time this season, where am I going to go? Or I stopped worrying about like, okay, well,

if I try to make this move or shoot the shot, what might, what would my teammate think? Or what would my coach think? Or what would my assistant coach think? Like, am I doing too much? Am I doing too little? Like, I just let all of that go. And I just played. And by the grace of God, like I ended up, you know, just getting in that zone and it was kind of just, it just flowed and it was over from there in terms of just doing what I do. Okay. So you're young, you're in New York City, you're a national headline,

you're on the cover of the papers every day after a game. What was that like for you socially? I mean, there had to be buddies from school calling you up being like, hey, you know, I think I'll come visit now. The city loves the Knicks. There had to be moments where it was weird as if you all of a sudden were one of the biggest stars in the city in an unprecedented amount of time. I couldn't even begin to express it to you

or explain it to you. Try. So before that game, I was walking around, I would walk around all the time, go to the pie. I was sleeping on my brother's couch in Stuy town. And I would be in the elevator.

I would see, you know, all the residents who are living in that complex all the time, you know, just going about my business. I try to get, you know, just going about my business. I try to get, you know, I take a taxi every time to MSG for every game. Going to MSG, sometimes it would be like,

who are you? This is only for players. I'm like, I'm a player. They're like, no, you're not. I'm like, I'm a player. This happened, you know, and it was like, okay, let me in. That was like, you know,

and then like a week later, it's like, I can't go anywhere. I mean, after every game, it's 200 text messages, 300 text messages after games. I can't even sort it through. I mean, people are like, oh, oh, Mark Zuckerberg's here at the game. He wants to meet you. What? Who?

Mark? Oh, are you Mark Zuckerberg? Oh, my goodness. Oh, so-and-so wants to get on this interview. Or like, I'll go to a steakhouse with a teammate. I remember like, hey, let's go eat. My financial advisor wants to take you to eat. I was like, okay, cool. We go to a steakhouse, we walk in and I swear, I can't, I mean, it's everyone's in suit and ties. Everybody stands up and gives a standing ovation as we walk through the restaurant.

I mean, it's like I can't even make this stuff up. Next thing you know, you know, I'm just trying to go to brunch at some random place with a couple of teammates. And when we come out, the entire school next to us, all the kids were waiting for us. And there was paparazzi, everyone taking photos. I mean, this is all within the span of like a few days uh and so when you talk about like it actually is like one of those movies where like i took a pill and then like i became somebody else and was living in a alternate like universe or world and like that's actually what it was like so i remember you know because i was doing the daily show with Van Pelt,

and we'd come back in after another game and be like, dude, he did it again. And then you're like, what? What's going to happen here? And then I remember the Miami game. And I'll never forget watching LeBron and Wade defend you at the beginning of that game. And I think I even texted Van Pelt.

I was like, it's as if Wade and LeBron were flipping a coin, arguing over who got to defend you. And they were like, enough of this shit. Do you remember that? And I have to imagine you were like, oh, whoa, wait a minute. Like they were coming out and trapping you. Did you sense that those two guys were almost sick of you getting headlines

and they were coming for you? I mean, people told uh i mean people told me literally people told me like they were arguing over who could guard me they all wanted a piece of me um they all wanted to guard me i mean you could see even i would come off the screen it wasn't just done that would come off the screen chris bosh hard hedge or chris bosh high up and just and then you and then they would rotate and then it would be mar Mario Chalmers and it'd be Norris Cole. And it was just like the whole time, like I couldn't get any room to breathe and I've never felt more like,

I've never felt more like, Oh, we're going to go stop that guy. Then in that game of like, they were out to get me and, and they were obviously a great team and a great defensive team. And they more than succeeded that night. I mean, they were tremendous in their defensive effort. But it was definitely, I was just like, oh, wow. Yeah, that definitely felt like I had a target on my back. But I think that's fun, right?

That's the fun part of basketball. That's the challenging part of basketball. That's the challenging part of basketball is like, no one wants to run from that. You want the other team's best shot and you want to be in a place where you give your best shot. It was just, uh, you know, LeBron and Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosch. Uh, it didn't look like a lot of fun, but I understand. Right. I understand what you're saying. All right. The final thought on all this, cause you, you still had really productive runs with other teams. Unfortunately, you always see me be in another team every year,

so it was hard for you to get settled. But the next part of it, and I'd heard this story, so I don't know where your relationship is with Melo. I've always appreciated Melo. I think he's a terrific interviewer. I've always said that. But once he came back, because he had missed time that year, he was like okay

look you paid me all this money we're not running the offense through jeremy lynn on a high screen the entire game so was was there you may have gotten along with him but was there any basketball conflict there once he came back and was like look are we seriously going to do this and have me be the second option i felt like honestly i felt like uh everyone kind of understood because it wasn't just him like i think uh amare like needed certain things too right and like uh and so we we sat down we we all ate together um and we kind of talked about it was you know me mellow uh amare and tyson we all kind of talked about what we wanted and i think we had to just figure out how to flow right and i think um i'm not comparing it in a sense like oh that team is equivalent to what i'm about to say now but i'm saying it's a similar concept of like when you had brought that miami

heat team together when like katie joined the warriors or whatever it's like there's all you can always see there's a stretch of time where everyone's trying to figure out okay how do i find out how to be me but at the same time not take away from anybody else and again i'm not saying that you know me mellow uh mario and tyson are the equivalent of any of these other teams that i mentioned i'm just saying there is a huge part of like how do i fit in but not fit in so much that i don't do anything and and there's like that that balance and so we were all just trying to figure it out and to be honest like we did well like even when they came back like we were still winning games and we pushed from 11th or 12th place all the way up to like sixth or seventh place in the rankings and um and so we

actually accomplished a good amount and then you know d'antoni resigned and then um i ended up getting knee surgery and stuff like that and so the season kind of ended in a different way but we still made it to the playoffs um and uh we still had a lot of success just that part of the story is kind of people just kind of forget about her as bossed over. Yeah, because it was the heat. I mean, the heat

were the headliners there and, you know, I know some other teams are still hanging on, but it's fun. I was going back and watching it a lot this morning

and it's, I don't want to, this would sound negative. I don't want to say fairy tale in the negative way, like, oh, because it happened. It wasn't a fairytale.

But you got to kind of walk on NBA water there for a while in a way very few players ever have. And I'm rooting for you, and I hope we get to see you again. I hope we get to see you in the league again. No, I appreciate it. Thank you. You want details? Fine.

I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. LifeAdvice.

RR at gmail.com Okay, we have a little bit more feedback now that's being sent our way from Kyle, which I appreciate. So I'm not saying it's going to be a staple, but sometimes there are people that chime in. I go, you know what, this guy's a real straight shooter with mental management written all over him. All right, Will checks in, says on the dog poop disposal follow-up, because here's my code. If I'm walking my dog and the trash has not been picked up, I feel like it's free game to make a deposit as it'll be whisked away in the near future. All right. So he's talking full, not even full, but like there's

trash in a can that's out in the open. If the trash has already been picked up and I'd be leaving a base layer of dog poop for my neighbor's week of trash, I find that's out in the open. If the trash has already been picked up and I'd be leaving a base layer of dog poop for my neighbor's week of trash, I find that to be beyond the pale. This guy can really turn a phrase. Is this an acceptable take or am I still kind of being a jerk? I think that's fair.

I think that's totally fair. I think. Base layer of poop, nobody wants that. Seven days, depending on what the humidity is, not entirely cool. I'm going to tell you right now, a guy let his dog just go right in front of my house. And the front of my house is a sidewalk. I'm right in it. I'm in a big city. So garage, open it up. A couple grenades on the way out. And I wasn't thrilled. So you know what I did? I went back and looked at the security cam. on the way out and I wasn't thrilled. So you know what I did? I went back and looked at the security cam and I found the guy and I noticed that he had a big dog in the front and a little dog in the back. And the little dog was basically just losing itself. Um, and the owner didn't even know the owner didn't even know. So I go, you know what? I could probably figure out who this guy is. Small

neighborhood, people walking their dogs. He's probably got a daily routine. Maybe I could get really weird and time it out, wait for him. That seems like a waste of time. You know, three days in a row of that, you know, this isn't a stakeout here. You're not working for, for any arm of law enforcement. So you can probably put your time to better use than that. But then I saw that ago, that poor dog was just getting dragged behind by the big dog. And, you know, it just went nature, man, science. So I wasn't even mad at anybody on that one. And I did handle it. I handled it on my own.

So I know people that don't think I like dogs. I get dogs. You look at them the way they look back at you. It's incredible. They always, they always like you think about that. What else in your life gives you that high of an approval rating than a dog there's nothing but i don't have one because i want to be i'm not selfish i'm selfless because i know a dog for me when things are normal you know like hey dog guess who's going away this weekend me not you not gonna be around yeah right yeah yeah or not you there you go kyle giving him Yeah, right. Yeah. Or not you. There you go, Kyle. Giving him the what for. Can I just ask how long you had to survey? Did you have a motion camera or did you have to be like, all right, it's 1045, so I know

it was between the hours of 5 a.m. and 1045 that this dog just shit on my sidewalk area. Did you have it down to just the different motions where you could say an event happened here or did you fast forward through five hours of footage to find this yeah i sat one night i just sat there with fun to know how important with a cognac and just watched i just watched footage you're seething with a cigarette and a cigarette holder um no it was it was actually wasn't that hard because i could see the evidence on the footage and then i would scroll backwards and there was no evidence so i was like okay so those are my windows and then i would work backwards from both windows and then i was like wait there's there okay it's not there

and then i finally saw the guy walk by with the two dogs and then i realized the guy didn't even see it happen so awesome you know i'm gonna get mad about that. Thank you. I'm asking for credit. Okay. All right, here we go. Uh, this is entitled Craig list, a casual encounter. Have you ever thought to yourself, am I a casual encounter? Do you ever think that you ever have somebody look at you? You go, I wonder if I'm going to end up in a casual encounter later today. I'm not going to look for it. That's a whole nother world. Be honest, Kyle, have you and your buddies ever gone through Craig's list ads just to see what the hell is out there? Yeah. You know, I think probably like 14, 15 be like, yeah, what's on this?

I would have. Yeah. Yeah. What is going on? Right. And then you're like, I can't even imagine a 14. I mean, I guess, you know, it's 14. You're kind of figuring some stuff out.

You got to get off those GPS things anyway. So we had to be on there anyway. What? Oh, I mean, that was my GPS market. Oh, you were moving GPS stuff. One, one. But yeah, that's what I was scanning. Scanning to see what was out there.

We should do one where it's how to sell stuff online or buy stuff with Kyle. Although the Xbox routine, although maybe a lot of people will be like, yeah, I want to hear. Teach us all the angles. I got a couple DMs like, dude, I totally would have sold that Xbox too. Don't worry about it. So thanks for that. Your approval rating is almost like a dog on this podcast. All right, here we go.

Enjoyed the Whitney Reed pod, uh, tall, skinny type. So I see I'm super motivated with the bulking advice. Not what my question is about. All right, moving on. All right. Uh, early thirties, couple of kids happily married since my mid twenties. I have two core groups of friends, high school and college. Each group stays in contact quite a bit before kids came to the picture. Used to do yearly trips with each group to Vegas or back to our college town and still have active group texts with each of the guys. Only problem is none of these core guys lives within driving distance.

All right, got it. Chicago area, mostly every one of the two groups are in the Northwest or West Coast. I'll tell you this though. If you married a girl from Chicago and you have friends that have also married girls from Chicago and they live in other cities, don't worry about it because the big secret about marrying a girl from Chicago is she surprises you that you have to move back to Chicago. So they'll all be back there soon if their wives are also from the area.

I've lived out here six or seven years now. We have lots of family members migrate this way as well, which is great to have my kids be near both sets of grandparents and a couple aunts and uncles, close-knit families and lots of family members migrate this way as well, which is great to have my kids be near both sets of grandparents and a couple aunts and uncles, close-knit families and lots of time. All right. To say all that, I have not developed many friends out here because most of my spare time is booked with family. I have one really close college buddy who lives an hour and a half away. So, all right, not convenient. A few months ago, a family moved in a couple of houses down, appears to be similar ages as my wife and

I, and they have kids around our kids' ages. We've kind of met them, but not much more than exchanging names because the kids usually dominate the situation we go on our way. I'll wave to the other dad when we were both outside, but again, usually we were chasing our kids around. My question is, how do I, so you want to be buddies with this other guy. This is why I think that that male version of Raya called Gaia would have worked. Where you just, a bunch of guys want to meet each other. You just, hey,

you know, and then you would have to kind of fill out some sort of questionnaire, like, what do you bring to the table? Because you'd be like, oh, that guy Doug, he sucks. Be like, yeah, he's a C-Ray though. Like, wait, like a C-Ray you could sleep over on? Yeah. All right, he's in. You know, and then sometimes you'd be like, what's up with Steve? I'd be like, I don't know what Steve's deal is.

Oh, that guy that wears the Brazilian jiu-jitsu jacket around town? Like, what is it? How old is he? He's 38 and he wears the Brazilian jiu-jitsu jacket out? Like, out? Like, he'll wear it a couple times a week? I mean, that guy's not bad to have maybe in your 20s, but 38? I don't know. You know what I mean? So you'd have to fill out some sort of questionnaire. Like, what do you bring the table? What's your deal? How do you dress? And it would strictly to be

like, Hey, I think I would just get along with this guy. Let's get out of the way. All right. So how do you approach the other guy without being awkward as hell? Stop waving. First of all, um, I don't just want to knock on his front door and ask him to be his friend without sounding like a real... Yeah, you definitely don't want to do that. Okay. I'm obviously already in my head about it. See, now I'm loving this email because these guys thought it all out. He really wants to be friends with this other dude because he doesn't have any friends.

But you don't know what to do. He says he feels ridiculous writing this email, but we don't have any other families that I've seen in our neighborhood, same age, similarly aged kids. It'd be great to have a guy friend within walking distance. You just grab a beer with shoot the shit or go play nine holes with. I've got friends who can spend all day Saturday bar hopping or all day golfing. As fun as that is, I don't want to be away all day from my kids and having a friend in a similar life stage as us would be great. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you are, this is kind of like the person that asks when it's going to happen for them. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you are, this is kind of like the person that asks when it's going to happen for them. You know, I've female friends that, you know, maybe aren't married yet and they just go like, oh, I can't believe this. You know, when's it going to happen for me? I mean, look, guys do

it too, but we've talked about this. The science of it is a little bit more stressful for women, which I think all of us men need to do, need to do a better job of understanding. So when, um, when you start thinking about it, that's when none of this stuff happens. You know how like people in relationships will say, oh, we met when it was like when I was least expecting it, or I never, I wasn't even planning on going out that night. So you're mentally in a mode of, like, I don't think any of us are great at being on the air until you just accept that, Hey, I'm pretty good and I'll be fine. And then once you do that, you become even better. And it's the same way with the vibes that you're giving off. So if you're giving off

anxious neighborhood guy vibes and this guy's actually cool, he's going to smell it on you and you're fucked. So I think the best thing would be find out where he's from. Because if he's from the Northeast, you're probably screwed. But don't do too

much. Don't start looking at his Instagram profile and then liking seven photos in a row and then you don't even realize and then he's going to be telling his wife, he's from the Northeast, you're probably screwed, but don't do too much. Like don't start looking at his Instagram profile and then liking seven photos in a row. And then you don't even realize, and then it's going to be like, he's gonna be telling his wife. He's like that guy liked all my photos. What the hell's wrong with him? Why don't you just ask for a play date with the kids? You host it, but don't talk it up too much. Make it quick. You know, because you don't know what world is. If this guy has really cool, awesome friends, then maybe he doesn't want to be friends with you. But yeah, you can't be eager about this one. We're still in a quarantine here.

Depends on who you believe in when we're coming out. I don't know what to believe anymore, but there's going to be opportunities. But don't, it'd be hilarious if this guy just started walking his kids around the neighborhood like five times a day, just hoping to bump into him like a guy that joins a membership or gym membership only to run into an instructor or something like that. But yeah, don't stop thinking about it so much. I would use the kids at some point. Hey, you want to bring the kids over, screw around in the backyard and that's it. Talk less. Don't sell yourself. Don't talk yourself up. Don't even let him realize that you're

kind of hitting on him as a buddy. And that'll be the best way to go about it. You know, when you don't care, that's when you succeed. I know that doesn't make any sense, but in these cases, when it comes to like, you know, think about the way you talk to someone that's out of your league, you're fucked. Right. And then think of the way you talk to somebody who think you think like, isn't in your league, you're fucked, right? And then think of the way you talk to somebody you think like isn't in your league. You're a total piece and you're just a better version

of yourself. As shitty as that is, I think that's kind of the way it works. So don't start talking to this guy like he's out of your league, bud. Kyle? Word. Aim low, be pleasantly surprised.

Okay. Good stuff. Okay, one quick one. A lot of guys on the hair train here. I should have mentioned Propecia to our younger guy who was in Utah. Because by all accounts, it helps you kind of stay on the thicker side of things. So that's not an endorsement, but that's what I'd heard. And then one of my friends, somebody said, hey, I think that has some bad side effects. And then my friend said in front

of me, he's like, well, I'd rather be dead than bald. So I don't care. I was like, oh, okay. But I was still in the early phases. So let's see here. All right. Yeah, yeah. We'll just do a quick one. I'm 35. About three years ago, I started shaving my head because I was going bald. This past December, my then girlfriend... So wait a minute. So we're talking 2020. All right. And I made a bet for $100 that I wouldn't grow my hair out for six months. I said that was easy money and agreed. Since then, we've recently broken up, but I haven't cut my hair yet. Do I have to honor the bet and keep growing my hair out or can i cut it now that we're broken up this is such a good one this guy is honorable though uh this doesn't even seem real

but it is kind of all right do you think there's any chance you broke up because of the way you look three months later with hair you're 35 so i don't know man all right so then the other part of it is do you think after you broke up she's gonna pay you the hundred dollars i mean it's the ultimate screw you i don't know how the i don't know how you guys broke up you left that part out. I get, are you, are you still friends or something like that? But then how bad do you look? I don't know that anybody's ever looked good growing it out. I mean, you know how hard it is to say, no, when this happens, it's always this, but this is as close to a safe bet of that as scenario as anything I can even think of. No one's ever grown their hair out and be like, yeah, I'm losing it, but I'm just going to grow it out for a while and be like, you know

what? It actually kind of looks good. No one's ever fucking said that ever. I thought about doing it as a joke. And I'm like, do you know how bad that's going to look? And then you're like, do you want to look worse? Like, all right, I'm not going to do that. So I didn't do it. So I don't, do you talk to her? So the thing I was dumb, this is if you're broken up, so things aren't great because it's still sort of fresh here. It's only been a couple of months. You're going to keep looking worse to probably not even get the a hundred bucks back from the person that broke up with you in the first place.

Cut your hair, man. Get back out there. It's a hundred bucks. We'll talk to you Wednesday. Thank you.