The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Bill Simmons on the NFL Hall of Fame and Player Empowerment | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: September 19, 2019

Russillo examines the difference in player empowerment between the NBA and the NFL (5:10) before sitting down with Bill Simmons to discuss NFL contract negotiating, Patrick Mahomes, Ben Roethlisberger, parity, Eli Manning, the NFL Hall of Fame, Bill’s time at the Boston Herald, and more (11:14). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, made it back from Atlantic City, and we'll talk about that a little bit. We have the opening rant coming here very shortly, and Bill Simmons is going to stop by. We don't even know what we're going to talk about, but we're excited, and you should be too. I want to thank our great friends, not good friends. We feel like great friends now because we've been hanging out socially. From Belvedere, produced in one of the world's longest-running distilleries, Belvedere Vodka is the world's finest all-natural vodka. Part of a 600-year Polish vodka-making tradition,

Belvedere is made with 100% Polska rye, pure water, and no additives. We had the Ringer Ryan Soda there, which will sneak up on you. It was a little vodka, a little soda water, a little lemon juice in there, and some honey and grapefruit. And a lot of people don't know this, but a grapefruit in vodka is also called a greyhound. So Kyle, next time you find something worth your while on Tinder, and it's not just going to go straight to Netflix, maybe just grab a couple of cocktails. You order a couple of greyhounds in front of her, and then she's going to think you're a classy dude. Is this a new thing where people name drinks after themselves?

Because Jacoby does this. He does? And Juliet does this. And I was at a wedding with them. And Jacoby ordered the Jacoby. No way. And then explained to the bartender what the Jacoby was. And the bartender's like, can you just fucking tell me what's in the drink?

This is a new thing. People naming drinks after themselves. Guess what? That's why Kyle's old school. Yeah. Kyle's just like, can I have a beer? Yeah, Bud Bottle.

Bud Heavies. You like Bud Heavies, right, Kyle? Yeah, heavy over not heavy for sure. Yeah. No, Belvedere did this, Bill. It was part of a promo thing. I know. I did not name this, though.

I did not. Oh, they named it after you? They named it after me. Oh, I support that. I don't like when... I feel like the drink has to be named for you. Yeah, the place has to respect you enough. Oh, I support that. I don't like when... I feel like the drink has to be named for you. Yeah, the place has to respect you enough.

Like there's a couple of places in Burlington that have named some things after you. It's like when Kobe was like, I'd like to be the Black Mamba now. Yeah. This is now going to be my nickname, but it didn't happen organically. Anthony Thomas.

Whatever happened. I don't... People shouldn't nickname themselves. People shouldn't name drinks after themselves. Let the process be organic, like this Belvedere thing. We did this on Monday's pod about Dane wade with chris long and his teammates nicknames the the all-time greatest deon waders nickname kobe wade do you think he gave him

the self that one or somebody else no he gave it himself yeah that's it there's also deon waders other self i would say self-established nickname was google me which is i mean there you go i kind of want dion waiters to stay in the league 10 more years so that's what happened at belvedere we had a good show thanks to kevin clark and of course robert mays for stopping by ac had never been have never felt younger and hotter but that's just uh i looked at real estate there i checked out a couple condos i saw like the listings and the agent was like ready to run right out on the boardwalk. I'm like, we got a live one. I think he's wearing a nice watch. Like, are you interested in a 600 square foot studio that looks out over the beach? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know that I'm ready to make this kind of commitment to the town, but I'd never been there.

The podcast was fun. We had a guy heckling us in the front the whole time, which I think is the reason we're not going to be able to run that audio. And he just, it was a weird combo because he was a big Packers fan, but he had this kind of New York, Long Island thing working where he'd be like, we would talk for five minutes and he would just go, what about the Packers dude? The Packers, what about the Packers dude? And then May said something about like, I think the Rams could be the second best team in the NFC. And then he's like, what about the Packers dude? They're the second best. And he was pissed off that we did not acknowledge that the Packers could be the second best team in the nfc and then he's like what about the packers dude they're the second best and he was pissed off that we did not acknowledge that the packers may be the second best team in the nfc which seems like a weird thing to really root for and then towards the end this is comical so i'm going to share with everybody my self-confidence

is such a point right now that i'm not even going to let it shake me and i didn't let it shake me in the live show but an old woman who just was like i've had enough she backed up her scooter one of those rascals and he just started beeping while I was talking. And so I'm going like, you know, this Mahomes thing, like this guy's the most dominant player we've seen. Beep, beep, beep. And then she put it in forward and she was just right back to the slots. They had like this whole John Travolta slot machine,

which I'm sure pays out a shitload. So that was AC. And then we were able to come back to the West Coast. So again, thanks to Belvedere. and a big reminder for all you guys out there who've just been traditional M and M guys over the years, take your game day treats to the next level with the new M and M's hazelnut spread chocolate candies. Hazelnut spread is covered in smooth M and M's milk chocolate, delivering a mouthwatering blend of chocolate and hazelnut in every bite-sized piece. Enjoy them on their own or use them to spruce up your favorite desserts.

I'm going to tell you something fun and silly about the extreme lengths that I've heard about. We were at this party the other day, and they were like, is so-and-so coming? And they were like, yes, he is. And then the guy showed up with M&M hazelnut spread chocolate candies, and they were like, this guy's absolutely a wild card. And they talked about him the entire night of the party. They're like, you know, some guys show up with M&Ms, other guys show up with peanut M&Ms. This guy showed up with the hazelnut spread ones. Look out, hide your wife. So, um, just, that's just, you know, just a reminder next time you're at the grocery store

and you're thinking about just changing it up this weekend, go hazelnutty and try the new M&M's hazelnut spread chocolate candies today. I sent out a tweet and I'm actually going to criticize myself for it because sometimes I wonder like, did I send this out because I was bored today? Did I send this out because I wanted to be a part of something? And I don't think I'm really necessarily like that where there's something that happens and then it feels like, hey, like some of these Kaepernick tweets, I'm like, are you doing this for the insight or the retweets every time somebody else is signed to be a backup? And the new thing, and it became a topic really for like 24, 48 hours, is that the NFL is taking its cues from the NBA with player movement. And the NBA, which we just sat through this summer, was unprecedented.

It's unbelievable. And we know now that if you're an NBA player and you're a star and you want out, you're probably going to get out. And I've talked to front offices about this. I go, you know, do you ever think there'll be a shift back where you guys just start getting stubborn about this whole thing? I mean, until contracts change, which I don't know if they will or they won't, you could just figure out a way where maybe they kick up more money, but that hasn't really worked.

The whole unintended consequence of guys getting even more money in super maxes is that the money's just so insane now with the new TV rights, the guys are like, I don't need the extra 5 million between 35 and 40 million. It doesn't mean anything to me. So what we thought would curtail player movement hasn't impacted at all. We've only seen more. And a lot of that is just the attitude of today's athlete going, Hey, I can do this. I can pull this off. And all these guys have done it. Right. So there's no blame to go around with that other than I think there are certain times, the Anthony Davis one is probably one of them where you go, is this really cool?

Or is it cool that Paul George twice in just basically a calendar year was like, I'm out and now I'm out again. I think there are some problems with that, but it seems like a younger generation, certainly ex-athletes, they just go, no, no, this is totally cool. So now we go, well, wait a minute,

is this really happening in the NFL? The Antonio Brown thing is in its own category altogether. Pittsburgh got sick of him. He decided he was not committed to the team. Oakland gives up some assets. Oakland gives him the 30 million. Everything's good. But I do not believe this ploy that Antonio Brown wanted to be in the Patriots so bad that he turned away from the 30 million guarantee to do 10 million for one year with the Pats and it could get to 15. That doesn't seem like an awesome execution of any kind of plan. And now with all the new Antonio Brown stuff, he is just in his own category that I don't even feel like going into because I already did that topic last week. Jalen Ramsey says he wants to trade. Now, okay. Jalen Ramsey, outspoken dude. He did the interview where he called out every single

quarterback it felt like, except for the guys that were in his draft class and it was cool when he was thought to be the number one corner some people still think he is maybe he is so i'm not arguing that he isn't but when your team on paper looks like it's going to be one of the best defenses in the league and then you struggle last year after being a play away from maybe playing in the super bowl and then you get off to this kind of start and then he's mad and then people will say well no he's just about winning he's just about winning it's like no no he's about. And then people will say, well, no, he's just about winning. He's just about winning. It's like, no, no, he's about the attention and he loved it. And it's cool when you're winning.

And then when you're losing, the pressure gets to you and then everybody's looking at you and then you feel like, okay, I'm going to bounce. And when you say you want to bounce, this is always interesting. We don't know because we're not in the locker room, but I got to imagine that 53 guys on a roster, when somebody who's supposed to be the star and the leader of a team decides, Hey, I want out of here. You're kind of insulting the rest of the guys on that roster.

So do you really think that everybody's going? Yeah, I've got Jalen's back, but he needs to get his, or are they doing what we probably would do at work saying, is this guy really just dissing the rest of us? And now I'm supposed to be supportive of him because he wants to bounce. So we look at like that one piece and the Antonio Brown thing, and then whatever the hell's going on with Jamal Adams and the Jets,

who he's been there, what, a second year? Is this really enough to say, hey, this is just like the NBA? Because the simple answer is that it isn't. I mean, this is not the NBA. We would need unprecedented player movement. If you went through the top 10 players in the NFL on NFL.com, and I went through them, names like Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Antonio Brown is one of them that moved. Julio Jones, Aaron Donald's number one overall. They had Todd Gurley, and this was voted on by the players. He was fifth. I don't think he's the fifth best running back in the league. But these are the kinds of names. And guess what? None of them really moved. Khalil Mack moved because it was the Raiders. But if Khalil Mack had been on

any other team, contractually, financially, any other team would have been able to put that money in escrow and keep them around. It would happen to be the Raiders who just don't have that kind of cash flow. So he ends up moving on. You would need five to six of those guys to demand their way out. I'm talking about the top 10 players in the NFL to demand their way out to come even close to what we've seen in the NBA. We've seen in the league, Kyrie bounce with two years left on his deal. It mentioned AD. Jimmy Butler did it nuclear style two different times. Paul George did it twice. Chris Paul did it once, maybe twice, possibly three times. Russell Westbrook was traded because of the contract. Harden was traded because of the short-sightedness of the Thunder front office. Durant left in free agency, but that pissed everybody else off. And certainly people

were more mad when he did it with Golden State. You could go back even further. Mello took the fifth year on the New York deal and then wanted out of there. And LeBron left in free agency a bunch of times and people still freaked out about that. But yes, we have unprecedented player movement at the top of the league. And yet somehow we're turning this conversation into the NFL is going to mirror what the NBA is because a corner asked for a trade this week. There's just, it just doesn't add up. We have a lot of work to do, or the NFL players have a lot of work to do before I'm willing to say this is actually a serious thing that is going to happen. And one final piece, and I'm not saying I know this for a fact, but I've asked around,

and yes, I do talk to some NFL guys, but the way the NFL guy is programmed, and I mean the coach and the locker room and the way they kind of want you one mind, they don't want free thinkers in the NFL. And you can say that's wrong, but I could also understand a coach going, I don't want 53 guys questioning me why every single time we install a different play or concept. But the more combative, the nastier you make it in your current situation, you actually drive your price down in the trade market because the other teams are going, I like him. I like him as a player. Hell, I even like the contract and we wouldn't be worried about giving him money. But if this guy's going to just absolutely hit the switch to get out of here when the times get tough, then do we really want to

give up two first rounds? You could be driving your price down to a point where the team that has you goes, well, we may have traded you if we could get a couple of firsts. But if we're talking second and thirds for generational talent like Jalen Ramsey, then the Jags are more likely to say, hey, let's try to ride this out and make it work. So it's an interesting conversation. It's just not that accurate, at least right now. Okay, Bill Simmons just watched that whole thing and he's ready to go. So we're going to have him join us here in a second. But first, tune in. Have you ever had to miss a football game because you couldn't get somewhere to watch it? I almost rented an apartment in Manhattan Beach that had no living room. And I said, hey, this doesn't really make a ton of sense. I don't want to be difficult here, but where would I watch games? The guy was like, you're gonna be outside a lot. It's an outside lifestyle. I'm like, even at night. And then he said, you can put the TV in your bedroom. And I thought, I'm just going to fall asleep a ton. Hey guys, week three in the books.

I slept the whole day because my TV's in my bedroom. But you know what? If I had missed anything, I'd be able to use TuneIn because that's never going to happen again. You're never going to miss any games with TuneIn. You're all in one audio app for live sports, news, music, and podcasts.

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music, news, and podcasts, wherever you go with tune in. Tune in is a good deal. Yeah. I'm glad you said that. LA person,

Celtics fan over here. I can go listen to Sean Grandy call Celtic game thanks to TuneIn. I've been TuneIn for like four years. This is kind of what got Cuban started, right? Yeah, it's good. It's got the local broadcasts, and you're in control of which ones you want to hear of the different games, which I think is valuable.

Yeah, I remember when I was working at The Zone back in 03, my first year there, and they would tell us when we were recapping the game to say that we were listening to the local radio broadcast to keep reminding everybody that we had the rights. And it was one of the most annoying things ever because you would be like, yeah, that was a sick dunk that I heard on 1510. It was all they had that worked. The signal only reached like 20 miles.

Yeah, it was tough. You had the Celtics, right? So that was a big thing to brag about. So your rant that you just did at the top, rant, whatever we're calling it, monologue. Yeah, the open. Open. I think it's more generational

than a trend with football and basketball. I actually think this is just the way it's going to go in all the sports. I think people in their 20s now, it's all about like mistrust of whoever they work for, mistrust of corporations, mistrust of Facebook, and mistrust of the presidency, and just people wanting to have agency over their own lives and careers pretty much immediately. And they don't want to wait around anymore. And I think it's hard to get used to, but

I think that's what happened with basketball. And I think that I could see that starting to happen in football, especially more than basketball, because you don't, your shelf life is a lot less predictable. In basketball, it's like, I don't know, pick a guy, Bradley Beal. He knows he's probably going to play until he's like 38, unless he has some catastrophic injury. If I'm Jalen Ramsey, it's like I might be out of the league in 10 years. And the guy obviously wants to win. He doesn't like his coach. And there's been

this blueprint now of like, I don't like this. Send me somewhere else. It's not necessarily new, though. What's that blueprint? I mean, that blueprint is very rarely ever used, though. It's been something that's been in the ether, I feel like, for all of 2019, where we've seen somebody like Anthony Davis,

who's two years on his deal left, just be like, yeah, I'd like to go to the Lakers now. It's like, well, you can't. You're in a contract. You don't understand. I really want to go to the Lakers now. And then their whole season gets submarine.

I just think it's going to happen more and more. So there's a couple of things there. The Davis one is still one of the more brutal ones because, and I like him. I mean, he's one of my favorite players in the league and I can't wait to see what happens. I really can't. But for him to then do the sit down where he's like,

and then we'll see what happens after this year. And you're like, no, no, no, no. This is not, this is not, hey, I'm just going to get to free agency like everybody else because this is what everybody did. Everybody lumped in the same thing. But like every free agent says, I'll just see what happens this summer. No, when you tell everyone, you're only going to one team and they give up a ton

of assets for you. And we'll see what those end up being in value. You can't then be like, Oh, just, you know, and I may not resign. Like they think they're doing again. He thinks he's doing the LeBron James, keep everybody guessing, keep everybody guessing. And you're like, no, no, you made it very specific. This is the only place you wanted to go. You're absolutely right about that. But on the flip side of that, what does he owe the Lakers? I mean, this is like this whole conundrum we're in, right? Like the old way of doing sports is these guys made a huge commitment to him. They gave him what he wanted. He's in a great situation. Now he should reciprocate by saying, okay, I'd love to be here long-term, but I don't think anybody thinks that way anymore.

Everybody thinks like, what's best for me right now. I don't care about who long term. But I don't think anybody thinks that way anymore. Everybody thinks like, what's best for me right now? I don't care about who I work for. I don't care who I play with. What's best for me? And I'm not saying I agree with that. I just think that's becoming the mindset and not just in sports. I totally agree with you.

Now, it's worth pointing out the franchise part of this that makes it different altogether, the franchise tag and the lack of movement. We're never going to see player movement in the NFL. Guys can complain all they want. But like if a quarterback started doing and he's good, I mean, that's going to be really the day where it's like, my gosh, like imagine if Patrick Mahomes, like Kansas City's roster goes south year four and he's like, I'm the most dominant player in this league and now I want to bounce. Like that's what we would need to have

this really be like the NBA. But wait a second, Mahomes, he's definitely going to hold out next summer. That's happening. There's no way he's not doing that. He's the most valuable asset in the entire league, and he's probably the best player, and he's playing for peanuts the next couple of years. It's not happening. He's going to renegotiate that contract. He will be like, I'm not coming to camp until you fix this. Yeah, but he can't, he can only get paid on like what the fourth year. Yeah. But he'll just, whatever leverage he has, he's using it next year. From what we've seen these first two games, he's the best player in the league. Yeah. He's the best player in the league. Like I was, I was thinking about it the other day. I go, what would be,

not that they would ever trade my homes, but like, I always love doing this game, like prime Duncan, where you go, what could you actually offer that would even make any sense? Oh, in a trade? Yeah. In basketball, when like, if another team said you can have our, our first rounders for the next decade, you would still say no. This was the old trade by a gimmick I used to do. And the reason it started when you write, but it was, I used to write back when I was a writer, but it was the original impetus was like Shaq in 2000. What kind of offer would you have to make for Shaq? And then it goes through and you get to like,

there's been some great trade value guys like Duncan0203, LeBron0809, where it's like, you can't make an offer. We're not trading them. And I think Mahomes is probably the only player in the league who's like that. Where it's like, somebody could be like, hey, Kansas City, we'll give you 10 first rounders for Mahomes they'll be like cool fuck off yeah I don't think it's I don't even think it's worth it like that's why I just you know whatever we have these moments and I know that you're the same way where you go would this be a good segment or like would this like what would make sense and nothing from Mahomes makes sense like there's nothing

there's nothing about him now where I go you know know, I had to see it for the full year. He's a play away from playing in the Super Bowl. I don't know. I mean, is there anybody, I don't think I'd seen, actually that's in itself interesting. Have you even seen any negative Mahomes stuff? No. I don't think anybody zagged on Mahomes because it's just impossible. You can't. He's too much fun to watch and he's too good.

And Hill goes out, these two random dudes come in, Robinson and the rookie they had, who I didn't even think was going to play this year. It just doesn't matter. It's like whoever, can you get open by like two inches? I'll get you the ball. Just run downfield and just try to be open by two inches. Yeah, and Clemson fans are watching Sammy Watkins week one going, yeah, that's what he was like six years ago. Yeah.

That's why he went in front of all those other receivers. Do you think he's the most untradeable football player we've had this century? Well, what are we going to get for Brady after the third Super Bowl? And he's still young. I love Brady. I think he's the best quarterback of all time.

I don't think he was ever like, the wow factor was never with him. No, he wasn't. But after the third Super Bowl, he was 27. Mahomes is more like, you know, like watching Jordan on the 87 Bulls or something where you're like, oh my God, this is like revolutionizing

what I thought could happen at this position. He had four touchdowns in the second quarter the other day and it just bounced off people. Yeah, we're totally numb to it now. It's like, oh yeah, yeah. Mahomes had four touchdowns. It was one quarter. Quarters are only 15 minutes. This is not conceivable.

It's crazy to get four possessions. Yeah. And it's just like he, we talked last week. I forget who I was talking with about whether he could get to 60 TDs. It was with House. I think if he wants to, yeah. And it was like, all right, well, if it's four TDs a game, that's 64.

Could he have four TDs a game? He might have a couple where he has five or six, and then a couple where he has two, but the average is 3.7. Seems doable for him. Unless somebody else gets hurt. Boise State did this thing with Kellen Moore when he was there, and now everybody loves him because of what he's doing with Dak and Dallas.

And Boise had this thing where like Kellen Moore when he was there, and now everybody loves him because of what he's doing with Dak and Dallas. And Boise had this thing where every time it was short goal situation, they would let him throw. So Kellen would get a million touchdowns that year. So if you said, hey, let's get you 60 touchdowns this year. I missed that part of sports. That's why I hate when Klay goes off and it's like, oh, we got to sit him for the fourth quarter. You're like, who gives a shit?

This is supposed to be fun. Let Klay get out there. But everybody's so, you know, rest of it, like, why is he out there? Like, Brady's been out there in these blowout games. And it's like, have you not paid attention to what Brady and Belichick do? Like, Brady doesn't sit down in these games. This isn't new, but everybody's acting like it's brand new. But football doesn't have that many records like that, right? 2,000 yards for rushers is a big one. 16 and 0 is a big one. It felt like the 50 TD thing when Brady did it. 50 TDs felt big, but it happened.

But then 60 seemed inconceivable. But now if he could get 60, that's like, holy, I just never imagined that. Unless they went to like an 18 game schedule or something. That seemed impossible. But he's so much fun to watch and so great. He is like a basketball player. I mean, that's how I feel when I watch him,

I go, this feels like just this dominant basketball player. And that's why, you know, with all this player movement thing I talked about, whether it's the franchise tag in the NFL or, you know, quarterbacks,

but it still doesn't matter. Like no one guy is nearly as important as like a great, great basketball player, except Mahomes feels like he breaks that rule. Would you say he's your Mahomey? I don't know if you've seen that ad. Is it? Which one is that?

It's State Farm. Oh, yeah. That's my Mahomey. That guy's good at playing major. Because they're trying to make him be obnoxious. It's like the perfect way to make him obnoxious. You call Pat Mahomes your Mahomey. Yeah, I mean, what if Mahomes does the Anthony Davis though?

This is the hypocrisy of NFL versus NBA. After two years of Mahomes, it was like, I want to play for the Rams. I've decided that's my team. People would be like, fuck you. Not on Twitter, but that's where Twitter's always wrong. What do you mean? Media members on Twitter would be like, that's amazing.

He's just taking control. Taking ownership of himself. Yeah of himself yeah like well that chiefs haven't done enough what he almost won the super bowl last year this is what i keep trying to get back to and we're kind of getting distracted but like i don't always want to be like the two dudes who sound like we're old and out of touch and then it becomes this who's right who's wrong and there's nothing more classic than older guys telling younger guys they're wrong in the pursuit of this but you're right like your whole your whole overall thing wasn't just, hey, NBA guy does this. So now NFL guy wants to do it. I'm sure there's some connection. But again, they're still way behind. But it might be this thing where, look at our industry. How many guys

in their 20s that, like, I used to always think nobody wanted to hear from you in your 20s. Nobody wants your opinion on anything. Like, everybody hates you when you're in your 20s. They just don't like you. Guys listening right now that work in finance, hey, guess what? Everybody with an office who's 40 in your 20s thinks you're an idiot. No one respects you. No one likes you. And if you pulled in some big deal at your bank, they think it's because you knew somebody. They're just not going to give in. I had a manager one year when I was 32 or whatever. He offered me just $5,000 less a year than he made because he couldn't stand the idea that I was going to make more money than him

with no wife and no kids. And then I was like, what? And of course, it got back to me a year later that he was like, he is not making any more money than me. This is bullshit. He doesn't even have a family. And I'm thinking, this is ridiculous. But there's younger people listening like,

wait a minute, what is the point of waiting in line? What is the point of waiting for, like, why not just go grab the ring? Why not just take, like, be the CEO of me lyric? This is why you love Boiler Room. I love Boiler Room. What's up with Rabisi?

Scott Kahn, though. I heard you talk about it last week. Yeah, I wouldn't want to fight Scott Kahn. I think he's a lot shorter than you might want to fight Scott Kahn I think he's he's a lot shorter than you might think he is no I know he's short I mean he's like 5'6

but he looked like he got locked in they did some some camera angle chicanery with him I think to make it seem like like De Niro and the Irishman yeah a little bit

that was the original Scorsese was like what did you guys do with Scott Kahn cameras I was looking up I'm going to shoot this right get me the boiler room outtakes. Yeah, I do think that we grew up in an era where if you were working your way up, that you were just treated with open disdain.

Tons. I mean, that was like the Boston Herald. I had like PTSD after that. It was like, we're making Chinese food order. Go around with the menu. Get it. And then you're going to call it in. And it wasn't like friendly.

I've heard some stories. It was like, hey, I ordered an egg roll. What happened to you with the Herald? Because I heard somebody who was like,

I don't like them. I'm like, you don't like Simmons? You're like, yeah, I worked with him at the Herald. Yeah. Like asshole.

I go, really? They're like, yeah, really like in time. What happened to you with the Herald? What year was this? How old were you? This was mid nineties. I think, uh, I used to read I Am Better religiously. I Am Better was pretty solid. Yeah. He was really good. I just really was, I wanted to advance. I did everything I could to try to be read and try to get a column.

So I was like writing op-eds. They didn't understand why I was doing that. Like, why isn't he just waiting in line covering the Swampscott Duxbury game? Why are you writing an op-ed? What'd you write an op-ed for? It's like, cause I wanted to see my name in print with something I wrote. You know,

it was a lot of that. Yeah. I had like six op-eds. I started writing stuff for the Phoenix. They didn't like that. I started writing like a, a weekly sports column. I'm sorry. I was a full a weekly sports column. I'm sorry.

I was a full-time high school reporter slash editorial assistant. And this is right after Holy Cross. This is like a couple years after, like after grad school. Yeah. So they, but they had this whole system where you just kind of had to, you were started here and you had to do stuff and do all the shitty stuff. And eventually you might, they would always point to, it was Maserati and then Felger. Maserati was like an EA

and then he got to start covering Red Sox games. And he's like, now he's covering the Red Sox. So that was like the carrot. And then it was like Felger, he was the EA for, in the hole where all the copywriters were. And then it was like, then he got to cover the Bruins

and that's your path. And I was like, I want to write columns. So I would do anything I could to be published anywhere as a columnist. I probably was a total dick. I mean, I'm sure there's a million things I would do differently. Do you know the irony of you admitting to this

all right now in the mid nineties and what we just talked about? Yeah, I know. Like we're telling everybody how they should wait in line. It's a new generation. You were the original Jalen Ramsey. I really was. I was like, I know. Like we're telling everybody how they should wait in line. It's a new generation. You were the original Jalen Ramsey. I really was.

I was like, I'm better than everybody you have right now. I know I am. I really was. I knew I was better. And then I started my own site and I was better. It was a fact. Yeah, that's the thing that you kind of be able to trump is that you were better than everybody else.

I knew I was the best columnist that they had. Oh, that Callahan was really good. I guess he was still there. He hadn't gone to WI. But I just knew if I wrote a column, I knew I was the best columnist that they had. Oh, that Callahan was really good. I guess he was still there. He hadn't gone to WI, but I just knew I, if I wrote a column, I knew it was gonna be successful. And there's this one time I pitched them this whole two, you love this. I can do the whole pod on this. I pitched them this whole Sunday thing I wanted to do, which was basically like a two page, just like week in review that had like,

it had the little one line or rambling section. It had my ranking of the week, like what the ET, the entertainment tonight list was like the top 10 people of the week. It had a short column. I laid it all out. I did it. I did copy paste. Like I, and I laid out this whole thing. I was like, here's what it would look like. And I would write this and I'd just work on it the whole week. And then on Sundays, it would be this awesome thing for you guys. It was really good. And they were like, you would do this every week? That's a lot of work. And I'm like, I'll do anything. I'll fucking sleep outside if you gave me the chance to do this. It's not a lot of work. I'll do this. And they just kind of, they didn't want to do it. So the guy who was running it, Bob Sales, who was a sports editor, he got pushed out.

And he really liked me, but never really gave me a chance to actually do it. And then when I was trying to get into Phoenix, Bob Sales said he used to work there. And I called him. I was like, can you help me with the Phoenix? And he calls the Phoenix. He's like, this guy has a chance to be, you know, the best columnist in this city and really pushed me. So they started using me. And I'm like, I was like, if you felt that way, why didn't you give me a chance when you were running the Herald? Like I was just, my head was spinning. So, I mean, I'm sure there's a million things I didn't handle

well, probably, but I was clearly talented. Yeah. That's what's frustrating, I think. And whenever I would talk to like a decision maker, right, on a creative side thing, like they're just so used to so many people coming in with terrible ideas that it blinds them to the chance, the rare times. And it's like, oh, wait, this actually might be like a really good idea. So they just built up this tolerance and it's like, no, I'm just going to keep saying no, because most of these people are delusional. I don't want to, like, I would even say that to manager, be like, Hey, look, I get, like, I talked to my coworkers. They tell me some of the ideas they have. And I think they're dog shit. And I know they're pitching them to you, but like every now and then there is something that's good in there.

So that's why, so you only, how long were you at the Herald? Probably three years. I knew, I knew I was done because you had these shifts and somewhere during the winter, I started just getting like the, the death shift. It was like three to 12, four days in a row. And it would be like, you know, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, it was like, the fuck you shift. Were you still bartending too? No, I hadn't started yet. Oh, so that was after. Yeah. Now I was like doing all kinds of stuff, trying to freelance on the side.

And I just think I was probably a little too ambitious for the regime at the time. But you can totally understand where they're coming from. Yeah. They're like, what's up with this guy? Why does he have ideas? Totally.

I would totally get it. I would be probably annoyed by me. If me was on the ringer staff, I'd be like, fuck that guy. What? He just, he did a whole layout yeah i did a layout you copy i it's like elmer's gluing the different pieces i wrote and printing them out so what's different then so what's different with the the pro athlete who's like i'm taking control of this like what turns us off about this because there's times where it turns me off there's other's other times where I go, Hey, this guy's like, there's guys that leave in free

agents. Like I just go, Hey, you gotta, you gotta back off there. I can understand the home crowd being hurt. I can understand the thunders resentment of Durant going to Golden State. I get it because it's personal. It's emotional. That's your, that's your attachment. Um, in this, this movement of players being like, Hey, it's, it's more than just this. It's like, yeah, but you know, that's kind of the trade-off.. You get paid as much as anybody in the country other than guys running companies, and you become this inanimate object to them. I'm not saying it's right, but that's sort of what happens. And people become really irrational because they're so emotionally attached to the whole thing. And yet there's this pushback of like, hey, I'm more than this, and I'm not just

an athlete. I don't know that there's ever been as big of a disconnect where the athlete resents the fan and the attention as much as they have. And maybe, maybe this is part of it. I think football is a little different than basketball. Well, of course I think football has always had like, just bear with me with this analogy.

There was a military aspect to it. Like everybody's going to be in the same page. Nobody's bigger than the team. Listen to your coach, follow the system. Your lives are actually in danger a little bit. Not like they would be in the military, but you know, your career is on the line every play. Just kind of trust the team over the individual, right?

And that's why the wide receivers were always like the weirdos over here, the divas, they want the ball, all that stuff. And they kind of operate outside that. Everybody else is like team. Nobody's bigger than the team. The quarterback's buying Rolexes for the offensive line. It's all about the team. So now you have this new era where people are going,

I don't really like my team. I'd like to be traded. If that becomes a thing that kind of undermines a lot of what makes football, football, whereas basketball is a basically individual sport where people are learning how to coexist with each other. And the ones that coexist the best are the best at it. But ultimately it is an individual sport. Yeah. The Le'V levion thing is one i should add to that and then you have this melvin gordon thing now and what i've always thought was interesting about the levion thing is when his offensive line in the beginning of last year turned on him you're like those guys never do that they never like oh line they're just why like they know hey guess

what i'm gonna do stuff that no one ever notices for the most part, except for other old linemen. This is why Brady's a genius. I mean, for a lot of different reasons, but one of the things he figured out media posts. No. One of the reasons he figured out really quickly with football is like, I can't be bigger than the team.

I have to constantly, um, butter up all the people that make my life easier. And he's like been awesome with he's he'll throw with any receiver till any hour of the day. The offensive line, whoever it is, he's all in on those guys. He praises them constantly and he's just really good at that stuff.

And I think when you're the leader, which the quarterback is, that really helps. That's an edge. Whereas like the stuff you read at Roethlisberger, did you read that weird article about Roethlisberger? Years ago? No, like a week and a half ago,

somebody interviewed 25 different people that have played with them about like, what has been Roethlisberger's leadership style? Oh, that was the one where they were like, he's a terrible practice guy and he was out of shape. Yeah. And he would not miss a practice and then show up for the next one

and start yelling at people. And it kind of hung him out to dry very subtly. None of that surprised me. I don't like him. I've never liked him. Yeah. I respect that he's good, but he's- But has that affected them the last 10 years?

I would argue it has, because they've had a lot of talent and, you know, they lost the Super Bowl at the beginning of the decade. Then they got killed in the AFC title game. But other than that, they've had some pretty big misses. They lost a playoff game to Tebow. They lost a playoff game to Blake Bortles. Yeah, they've had games where they lose at home and you go, well, how did the Steelers lose that game?

And there's years where I've looked at their talent and thought on paper they were better than New England. I mean, I'll never pick them against New England ever. Yeah, they're 0-2 heading into this week and with a real chance to go 0-3, especially with Ben out. If there's any sort of infrastructure in place at all, like this is a game Belichick would win, right?

0-2 with my backup. They're playing San Francisco. San Francisco was great last week. People have written off Pittsburgh now. This is like a classic Belichick would win this game by 20 points game because the infrastructure, you'd get fired up. Nobody believes in us. It's actually a week two where coaches love

when everyone's doubting them. They try to make it up. 0-2 teams are super dangerous. When you have real doubt, coaches are like, this is awesome. Great. It's like nobody believes in this. I think there's a chance they really like this Mason Rudolph, which would explain that weird trade they made for Mika Fitzpatrick, where they're just thinking like, no, actually,

we're not going to have a drop-off with Mason Rudolph, and we get this guy now. We think he's a top 10 talent instead of like the 10th pick in the draft if things go badly. We'll have this guy, but we get him now. We get another free season out of him versus we don't get that pick until next year. It does seem like they haven't

quit on this team, but this is an infrastructure game, right? And I think the jury's still out on Tomlin, whether that team just looks sloppy a lot. They were bad last week. Seattle really should have beaten them by more. You take the Roethlisberger thing away,

like Seattle was still moving the ball down. Moved it all day long. And their defense just doesn't look good anymore. Their defense has been pretty overrated. It's funny how weird we can be when the first impression is what it is. And, you know, this is even before I was born, but you go through that first decade,

it's like Steelers. And then it's 80s, you know, the linebackers. And then Cowher, early 90s. And some weird wide receiver they always end up finding. And it's kind of the same thing year after year with them. I'll never forget that amazing, was it the 7-6 game, Cordell and the Pats in the 90s there before they got that Pats run. The toughest play so far.

Right. And that Pats defense was, you know, it was just, hey, Steelers D, Steelers D, Steelers, run game, the whole thing. And then people still say stuff like that. I mean, like, this defense under Tomlin has not been good for a long time. And it's funny because I've never thought of Tomlin as like this exceptional coach. I think he carries himself that way. I think his soundbites are perfect.

Like his, if you ever were going to cast somebody to sound like a head coach, I mean, it's Tomlin. He has this great with the media. Yeah. Just unbelievable. And then sometimes I'll say something like, wait a minute, did that actually mean anything? But now it's kind of shifted in a way that I appreciate that he's getting more credit because of what Antonio Brown has been doing. So now it's like, wait a minute, Tomlin had to deal with this. Like, what do you do with this guy? And like, whenever I look at Brown, I just think like, I don't, you know, I don't really want to bring him up because I feel like if we're not talking

about the serious issues or dismissing the serious issues, but there's just certain guys you're never, you know, what was Tomlin supposed to say to this dude? What was he ever going to say to him to be like, hey, you're, you're invested in team. And him and Roethlisberger as a combo. Kind of amazing it lasted that long. Well, because he's that good. Now, that's my thing with Ben

is that I always try to separate the two. Yeah. And, you know, it always was weird whenever you would criticize Brown or Le'Veon Bell, and then it's like, well, what about Ben? I'm like, I don't like Ben either, you know, but at least he's there and he's playing. And it's pretty clear with their bad defenses.

Some of the, they've had, it looks like the O-line's good now, but they've had some O-lines there where the guy's just back there taking a beating. And, you know, Le'Veon was a really special player in the offense and everything they wanted to do. But he, it felt like he kept that thing. I mean, look at some of the yardage numbers, years that Roethlisberger's put up and that's the

Steelers. And you're like, okay, this is 5,200 yards last year. No. And so you go, well, you know,

what's, what's going to happen? Like there has to be a drop off of Mason Rudolph, but then Ben would do something where I'll never forget. Like, and whether it was when Mason was picked and he's like, I'm not going to help him. It's like,

Hey, Favre didn't say it. He just didn't help. Yeah. You don't have to actually publicly be a dick and privately be a dick. Jason was picked and he's like, I'm not going to help him. It's like, Hey, Favre didn't say it. He just didn't help Rogers. You don't have to actually publicly be a dick and privately be a dick. Yeah. Cause when Rogers was still cool and friendly to us, um, before he won and he was like really nice to a bunch of dudes.

And then he pretended he didn't know me after I was like, it interviewed him twice and met him at two other things. Yeah. And I was like, all right, whatever, dude. Like I just let,

let it go. And I was like with other NFL guys that are not maybe Rodgers famous. You know, this is actually stupid because he probably, he shouldn't remember me, so I shouldn't bring that up. This has nothing to do with it. But he like-

I want an Uproxx aggregator call. Russillo, Rodgers didn't remember me. What a dick. Headline. Just excerpts. It was the thing where I was with a bunch of guys. I'm not going to name names, but it wasn't like I was with my buddies from high school here.

I was at a thing for a specific thing. The good news is you don't remember every slight that's ever happened to you. No. There's no list. You don't have a mental Rolodex. Right. And it was a real quick thing, and I go,

okay, then whatever, man. Yeah, I got it. I was like, I'm not going to debate you on this. But that could be a good sequel to the hottest take podcast that we're doing for Spotify. Slights, Rosillo Slights. My 150 biggest slights with Ryan Rosillo. Today we're talking about number 89. So I'm going to an Auburn, Alabama game.

So I'm out of cigarettes and I run into Yaz. Yaz is back in the news. Shout out to the Jastrzemski family. One parody question. Do you think, you know, we always talk about parody, parody, parody with the NFL.

Do you think we're at the tail end of that now for a bunch of different reasons? Like the cap is really high now. It goes up $10 million every year. It's just like a ton of money. You know how easy it is to manipulate this thing? And you don't have to use all of it.

And you sort of, I still think we're years behind everybody understanding what everybody's able to do now with the NFL salary cap. So you have that. You have this new era now where if guys don't like their team, they're just going to try to get out. Which, whether that happens or not, is factor, we at least have to mention. I also think real quick, we're going to see some stupid contracts coming up soon in anticipation of the TV deal based on what they saw, what happened with the NBA. So you have that. And then you have. Not yet. We're still a few years away, but.

The biggest asset you had is to get these QBs on the rookie scale contract, which we've talked about over and over again. But now if we're going to be in a renegotiation stage, that's not as much of an asset. And just think about this year, how many bad teams there are. This is, usually there's bad teams and there's always like, yeah, I used to do my tears back when I was a writer.

I'd have my tears and it'd be like the teams that could absolutely win the Super Bowl and you would go down the middle class. What year did you first do your tears? I don't know. 01? Oh, really? 02, somewhere in there. I always like when people get mad at other people for stealing something that's not that original.

Like, oh, you're doing tears now? Right. Oh, wait. You react to the AP poll every Monday? Sounds familiar. Yeah. That is funny.

Draft grades? I wonder where you saw that. All right, let's stop. But when you do the tiers, the last tier was obviously really bad. It'd be the six, seven worst teams in the league, whatever. I feel like that tier is the worst it's ever been. Miami is probably the worst NFL team we've seen since the 0-16 Lions.

But even the 0-16 Lions, I didn't feel like were like a catastrophe. Yeah, I feel like they're underrated historically. Yeah, we need to make a documentary. Like the 1-15 Patriots with Rod Rust. They were good guys in that team. It wasn't like this Miami team, which any good guys they have, now they're trading off. I can't believe

we have two Lions that are in the 20s now. The Patriots and the Cowboys are favored by 22 plus. This is turning into college football. I wonder if that's going to be... The Giants are terrible. The Jets are terrible. Miami's terrible. I don't think the Jets are terrible.

I think they're terrible without Darnold. But then again, some people think Darnold's terrible and other people like me hold out hope for him, you know? The Jets with a third string quarterback are terrible. Wait a minute. You don't, Luke Fox is second half guy. Okay. Don't count him out.

So you're not with me in that? No, I'm not. I think it's too early. You don't think there's a chasm? I think it's really good to get in front of this because it may happen you know the spread thing is is the best indicator of this

like what kind of number you know Vegas is going to put 19 on that Dolphins game with the Pats was it 19 and yet you go do you want to take 19 points with this team like do you want to take 19 points well I did.

One of my bets last week was I bet on the Pats 22 plus. They had to win by 22 or more. It was only plus 160. I just couldn't see any scenario where they didn't kill the Dolphins. Even that one, you had to sweat out. It was 23 and up the fourth quarter. The only counter that I'm thinking of the parody thing is that,

and I'm sure you're gonna agree with this. It's that the quarterback position has never been deeper. It's never been easier to be productive. Like you can find a guy instead of just, Oh my gosh, look at all these terrible quarterbacks. You go, okay. You know, we may have a guy that's never going to cover all our mistakes, but we're going to move the ball with the offensive revolution that we've seen with the way the game is called. I was watching, I think Kansas City did it and Baltimore did it. It was one of those things where you go on Twitter and you look at some of the play call and the all-22 stuff,

which I need to do a better job of, and I really like it, especially once you're like, hey, I'm starting to understand what they're doing here. But the Chiefs and Ravens, instead of putting a tight end out there, lined up Sammy Watkins as almost this end. And if your line can hold up, that means that your secondary has to cover this crossing route that's underneath, and then it's like this extended wheel route,

essentially from the other side. And then they did the same thing with Hollywood Brown and the Ravens, and you go, well, how the hell are you going to defend it? And sometimes I'm thinking, are NFL teams just this slow of going, hey, maybe we shouldn't put out a guy who's 6'5", 270, who's never going to get down the field if our five can block their four or five

and our back stays in, but our fourth receiver in this route is doing this drag concept where three, four seconds later, the ball is out as long as we can do this. And you just see some of these things going maybe it won't be talent that keeps the parity there it may just be hey we can score 21 points now every week even though we suck so i'm not saying you're wrong i'm just wondering if the quarterback play because whatever the floor of quarterback play was it's much higher now it's just harder to figure out who the guys are

than in that bottom tier because everybody's putting up, or you would think, other than the five that are going to get replaced every year, much better numbers. If I was a GM, I would go all in on the offensive line. Because I look at what's happening.

But it's harder to find those guys. I know. So that's why you mean it. Harder to find, but also it accomplishes all these different things. You don't need like a superstar quarterback. I don't think Brissette's a superstar quarterback. I really like him.

I think he's above average. Long really likes him because he was with me on Monday. And then he's texted me about him. He goes, you know, dude, he's like Jacoby. Think about what he did. They ask him to do a lot of stuff. And I thought in that Titans game, which I watched a lot of, and I thought in that Titans game which I watched a lot of and I'm all in on the Colts I bet them every week

I have their over all that stuff the Titans have a good defense and they were doing some really tricky stuff like they were making it seem like they were up to stop the run but then they would drop a bunch of guys back and the Colts eventually figured it out and they really started trying to

run the ball and it was one of those games where Jacoby absolutely could have fucked it up for them and he was just he had protection for the most part and just didn't he he game managed it but better than that like he made plays too and yeah they're not afraid like it's pretty clear they're not afraid at all I mean they said all the right things but they actually are telling the truth and that yeah just because Andrew's here doesn't mean we're going to have the training wheels here on Jacoby at all. No, but the key though is that he has protection. Finally, the Colts can protect the quarterback

after the owner retired. It's so funny. They're offensive line, and Tennessee's actually got a lot of pressure compared to what happened the previous week with them. But I think that's been the secret sauce with the Pats too, Skarnieckia, where they lose their left tackle this week.

Isaiah Wynn, they've already lost the right tackle. There's five new offensive linemen on the roster that weren't there four weeks ago. And it's kind of like, oh, it'll be fine. Because it will be. Skarnieckia will figure it out. He'll just teach Joe Thune how to be a left tackle for like four weeks and they'll figure it out.

You've got to get Skarniecki for like a two-hour thing. Well, nobody's been able to explain why he's... It's like the Spurs shot doctor. The guy who single-handedly taught Kawhi how to shoot. Skarniecki with offensive linemen. There are these kind of magical dudes out there. Nobody understands what makes them magical. Yeah, that is... I met Skarnie yeah that is i met another podcast series for you why are you magical ryan rossillo today i have dante skarnieckia how

did you turn this fucking scrub that they picked on the waiver wire into the best left tackle in the league it makes no sense nick swartzen grandma's boy you haven't gotten the recognition for that role that i think i think years later we realized that you were giving us a special performance um the skarnecchia thing i met him at mangini's thing like mangini is there may not be any bigger gap between a guy i despise from afar to a guy once i got to know personally that I was like, oh my God, I love this guy. Great podcast guest. Mangini was such-

Have you had the Mangini aside? We got to get him on the Ryan Russillo podcast. Yeah, he would do. I went to his, he did a really cool camp for like the inner city in Hartford and we went out there all day and we did this like Mangini camp and then I met Skarniecki there. I met Pete Rock at a Super Bowl party. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't know why, but I bowed to him.

And then I did it to Skarnecchia. No, I didn't do it. It was Dante. But that's how I feel about Skarnecchia. I was like, hey, how's it going? And he was like, oh, yeah, hey. I wanted to be like, what do you do? He's got the secret sauce.

You know, Mangini doesn't get enough credit for ushering in the player empowerment era. When he ditched Belichick for his own job. It was the first sauce. You know, Mangini doesn't get enough credit for ushering in the player empowerment era when he ditched Belichick for his own job. It was the first time. The players were like, whoa, look at that guy. We should do this. But you know, he's a really good example

of a sliding doors guy. If he doesn't do that and he just stays with Belichick and wins a couple more Super Bowls and does the whole thing. And then is basically in the spot McDaniels is in now where we have no idea how good McDaniels is. You could tell me he's the next great football coach. You could tell me he's not.

I don't know what to believe. But you're in that Belichick vortex and it's just like, how do you know? Well, it's actually not been. That family tree is like the opposite of of other family trees like i was talking to i remember the first belichick mistake i ever made was when pioli left i'd sit in front of somebody who knew what was up in foxborough and i go oh man like that's that's a blow to the pats like what what an amazing combination these guys have been the guys like that's all bill he's like everyone there's a mule i'm like what and it was so just like what are you talking about he's like yeah because bill just says do this and then he just has to find the

right people to execute you know i'm not saying like any of the guys since then or whatever but he was just so dismissive that like pioli was this visionary that was like you know working with bill and i mean this sounds dismissive and i'd so i don't mean was like, you know, working with Bill. And I mean, this sounds dismissive. And I'd saw it. I don't mean to be, but that, but it's just for Bill to lose all the coaches, all of the front office people and the thing doesn't miss a beat. He has his fucking family members of the coaching staff though. Right. So here's my son, Steven. He's our linebackers coach. It's like, what?

I never will understand like, Hey, can I be the defensive coordinator because I'm the defensive coordinator? Oh, it's just a name. It didn't seem like Flores even was actually the defensive coordinator, which I always thought he was. And then I saw some piece about him like two weeks ago and they were like, although he wasn't actually the defensive coordinator, he operated as if he was. But i think he was i think he was that dumb weird thing

i don't know like you know how like guys who get hazed really bad in college they either decide to become even worse hazers or they don't haze at all or they're like this is stupid and i hate it all all of it i wonder if parcells like hazed Belichick so much that Belichick was like, I'm going to be the bad hazer to all my assistants. Like you did this to me when we were with the Giants all those years. Clearly he was like, get me out of here with the Jets. And now it sounds like they've reconciled to whatever they needed to and everything. And that's another thing with Bill. And I didn't mean to do 40 minutes on the Patriots here, but I love that. He's done, he's done so much stuff now it's a little bit like george washington which

is part of my hottest take check out the hottest take podcast yeah spotify next week but george washington was obsessed with his papers are you doing the hottest take now no but i'm just saying like he he was he was aware of where he was going to stand in history. So he was obsessed with like his papers, which is essentially like his diary. And that's what I think Bill is doing at the end of this run, whenever it's going to be over.

But I think Bill's going to want to prove post Brady that he can do it without him. It started with the stuff he's doing now. He's doing everything. The guy that supposedly didn't want to do anything. He has a documentary coming with Saban. He's doing everything. The guy that supposedly didn't want to do anything. He has a documentary coming with Saban. He's doing this NFL Films 100 thing.

Yeah, he's doing it. He's doing this all because, and look, he deserves the attention and the accolades because of what he's done. But it's pretty clear that he's like, I want to make sure that, you know, I'm doing as much as I possibly can to kind of document what this run has been.

And look, you guys can- This was Michael Jordan's problem. Oh, I didn't know we were doing this. This is awesome. No, no, no. possibly can to kind of document what this run has been and look you guys this was michael jordan's problem oh i didn't know we were doing this this is awesome no no no he just he was like he retires everybody's like you're the greatest he's like i agree i was the greatest we all agree we're all gonna agree on this right i was like yes you're the greatest anybody else, he won't be the greatest, right? No, you were the greatest. And then years pass, years pass, years pass. LeBron comes in. It's like, can we say maybe LeBron might be the greatest? No, Michael Jordan was the greatest. Then he falls apart in the 2011 finals. It's like, yeah, ha, Jordan. See, Jordan's the greatest. Right right around 2014 he should have done

a documentary because he needed kind of the documentary is like the document of remember when I was the greatest

and he just wouldn't do it and he had the perfect we were trying to do it at 30 for 30 for five years the entire time because the NBA had filmed him

for the whole final bowl season we saw the we saw the footage and we were trying to get famous directors to do it. We spent all this time on it, me and Connor. And Jordan didn't want to do it. He didn't need to.

But now the LeBron wins in 2016. You know who's the greatest? LeBron. And then you have Kyle's generation. They're like, yeah, fuck Jordan. LeBron's the greatest. Who's doing a documentary now? Michael Jordan, 10 parts. 10 parts.

10 parts. Jason Hare, my friend is doing it. But he should have done this five years ago because he was, sometimes you got to remind people you were the greatest. He let a little bit too much time pass. The ESPN classic slash Hardwood classics NBA TV thing goes on and on. So this brings us back to Belichick. Belichick's like, I'm the greatest.

I'm going to start doing stuff so people don't forget that I'm the greatest. Here's the Belichick and Saban documentary. He did Belichick and Parcells two years ago. He's doing the NFL films thing.

He's patiently waiting for Brady to leave. He's got his next guy. Like this is going to be- Who's his next guy? He's Stidham films thing. He's patiently waiting for Brady to leave. He's got his next guy. Like this is going to be- Who's his next guy? He's Stidham. Oh my God. You guys are so high.

Stidham loves, he loves Stidham. Stidham's his guy. Yeah, you know what else? They also love Ryan Mallett. He's winning a Super Bowl with Stidham. They love Ryan Mallett. He likes Stidham. They like him.

Who is it? That O'Connell kid who's out of the league immediately? Listen, they never liked Ryan Mallett or O'Connell. Oh my God. Anything was falsified to try to get somebody dumb to trade for him.

Dude, I remember all these backups every freaking year. There's nothing, I've done this before, but there is nothing more overrated

than the local media's value of the backup quarterback who looked good in week four of the preseason. I think they do like Stidham though. Oh, okay. No, I'm with you. No, I really do. I'm sure you were watching him a ton at Auburn last year. I think they felt like there were things they had to fix and they wanted to put them with a good, good coaching staff and some good players. I will say this for Stidham. The biggest issue was that it may not have been

a fit there. And, um, you know, I, I've watched a lot of those games. He was running for his life, but he was also running for his life when he didn't have to. And with Skarniecki, Skarniecki was like, hey, guess what? Yeah. You're going to be protected

because I'm here. So don't worry about it. Listen, Belichick, his favorite season was probably none of the Super Bowl seasons, but the year they went 11-5 with Matt Castle. That's like if they were like, hey, Bill,

after seven glasses of wine, I'm like, come on, deep down, what was your favorite Pats season? He's like, I lost the best player in the league eight minutes in this season. I went 11 and five. That was my favorite season. Super easy schedule.

Well, he would hope that you would have known that as he's telling you this story. I would, because I bring it up every single time when everybody's like, oh, Brady. You know what? Can we do more Pats on this podcast? What else did you want to cover? More with Bill on was Michael Bishop used properly

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and score savings and service you won't find anywhere else. That's flooranddecor.com. The Eli Manning thing is interesting for a bunch of different deals. I don't understand. Yeah, yeah. Let's switch it up. I like this. Whenever a quarterback is drafted in the first round and the head coach gives us some answer, why do we care

what the answer is? All of the guys are going to play. The Mahomes-Alex Smith thing was the rare occurrence where there was somebody that Andy Reid still liked, and Mahomes did need to figure out some things because if you watch him at Tech, there was stuff that he did. You're like, like man you can't be doing that in the NFL now he's the best player in the league but when you look at Shermer and go oh well he said this he said like worrying about the actual answer from a head coach when they draft a first-round quarterback

is like talking to a politician who pulls up to fucking Iowa in a huge bus with posters they're like hey are you running like oh no we just fucking love Iowa Waterloo posters. They're like, hey, are you running? Like, I don't know. We just fucking love Iowa. Waterloo, shout out. And you're like, why do I care about your answer? Because we already know what the actual answer, we know what the truth is going to be. So, you know, Eli's getting benched here. New York puts the extra little pressure on it,

but then it pivots into the Hall of Fame thing. And of all the Hall of Fames, as much as everybody wants to bring up PDs and baseball, baseball's still the one that gets it. It should be hard to get in. There shouldn't be some way that if you're an average quarterback, which Eli was above average, but you can't say, hey, without the two Super Bowls because that's the whole thing, but Eli's getting in.

To me, Eli is not a Hall of Famer who is going to be a Hall of Famer, and I don't really think it's that hard to make that argument. The NBA, everybody just gets in. 116 and 116 lifetime record. If he plays one more game and loses, he's below 500 for his career. He'll play another game this year. I'm saying as a starter.

So here's why I would argue that he's not a Hall of Famer, other than the fact that he took two Super Bowls from him. You agree that he's going to be inducted into the Hall of Fame? I don't agree. Because I think... Oh, he's going to get in. I don't agree. Because I think there's a lot of quarterbacks now

who have their hats in the ring. This is a generation where every year there's like eight, nine relevant quarterbacks year after year after year. And at some point, at some point we're going to start pairing him versus Rivers or Roethlisberger.

I wouldn't say he has one of the top eight best resumes of the guys from the last 15 years. Would you? No, I was going through all the active leaders. Brady, Breeze, Peyton Manning. If you go yardage right now, all-time

passing yardage, six of the top 11 are active quarterbacks right okay if you go passer rating the top five all-time passer ratings are all currently active quarterbacks so eli is going to get kind of like number slapped here a little bit because his number is never really compared like look he's good you know he's good like i'm not turning this but it's just if it weren't new york if it weren't for i mean it's look he beats the. You know, he's good. Like, I'm not turning this, but it's just, if it weren't New York, if it weren't for the, I mean, it's, look, he beats the Pats twice. So it's, yeah, I'm going to sit there

and be dismissive of it. But the whole body. Well, some of the numbers help him though. Because he's, he had 362 TDs, which puts him eighth all time. But when he's up,

like we are going to have this unprecedented run of acting. Everyone's getting passed. Yeah, you're just going to look at these numbers and go, oh, was that even that impressive? Because I was doing like the whole Philip Rivers thing

the other day. Do you think Matt Ryan's had a better career than him? I think Matt Ryan's a better quarterback. But Matt Ryan's a weird one because Matt Ryan's the, if I think he sucks,

there's probably going to be a week where he sucks and I'm going to feel like I'm right. And then, you know, my position, my Matt Ryan thing has always been strengthened by the Ryan Flacco debates

because Flacco's teams were better. And I'd be like, do you seriously think this guy's a better, my Matt Ryan thing has always been strengthened by the Ryan Flacco debates because Flacco's teams were better. And I'd be like, do you seriously think this guy is a better quarterback than Matt Ryan? And people did because it's just one loss. The case for Eli, single-handedly, other than durability, which I think he year after year was 16 games, which I think should matter. You know, they're at a position where there's always like some dumb injury or something dumb happens. He played all the time. 07 and 11, he's just really good in those seasons. He was 8-0 with 15 TDs and two picks.

Now, if you actually watch those games, the amount of luck that he had in a couple of those playoff games and the drop picks and the Tyreek catch, like we go on and on were incredible, but he did, he went in, he won in Lambeau. He went in, he won in Candlestick. That was another bad kick in that game. He beat the 18 and 0 Patriots. He made the throw to Manningham, which was the best throw of that whole playoffs that won the game for them.

to Manningham, which was the best throw of that whole playoffs that won the game for them. My issue with this candidacy is if you just flip two plays, we're not even talking about this. If the Tyree catch doesn't happen, and let's say Tyree,

I thought you said Tyree. My bad. And if, let's say, Gronk catches the Hail Mary, or Manningham gets overthrown, or whatever play you want to pick from that, but then he doesn't win any Super Bowls, there's no way we're saying he's a Hall of Famer. So, I don't know.

It's a chicken-egg thing. Because the case for him to be a Hall of Famer is those two post-seasons over everything else. I like the no-number kind of just blink test of when you think of Eli, do you go off man every week? You're like, no,

not really. And that's what my problem is with a lot of the NBA guys. Like I'll look through some of the NBA classes and be like, what, what, what's going on here? He threw a staggering amount of picks. Like if you're in a nitpick him,

like he, he threw 241 picks. He a couple years like he threw 25 in 2010 in 2013 he threw 20 he threw 18 touchdowns and 27 picks they went seven and nine but there would be a stretch terrible there would be the stretch too of like new york media members like no one has ever been given the benefit of the doubt on tipped picks and And Eli, there was like a two or three year stretch where a couple of guys were like, yeah, but you know,

like seven of those were tipped. Like he's the only guy who has any, any tip balls that ended up being interceptions. Like, man, what an unlucky dude. This is amazing. He's the active leader for picks with two 41 breeze has two 35.

Nobody else who's active has over 200. Brady only has 171. He's 51st all time. What? Brady. Brady picks. Is it 51st all time? I don't have that here. Somehow Josh McCown is 15th of the active guys.

But I just thought he was really... My memory of Eli is super durable. Good, not great. Really sloppy on the road. But my friend Hershey, I have two friends, the Hershey brothers, who are huge Giants fans.

And their whole case for Eli, because I've argued about this, was, look, this fucking guy in a big game came through. We trusted him. And if it was like, we have to go.

Those guys were pointing out something no one's thought of. No, no, no. Listen, they were just like, we trusted him and if it was like we have to go those guys were pointing out something no one's thought of no no no listen they were just like you can't put a price on having a quarterback that

you can put him in any stadium in the league in any situation and he's the same guy so it's like we're in San Francisco it's 8 degrees outside

Eli will be fine or we're in Lambeau it's 0 degrees Eli's fine we're going against the fine. Or we're in Lambeau, it's zero degrees, Eli's fine. We're going against the Pats, so we're 18-0. Eli's not going to be scared. It's not a bad case because you think of Matt Ryan in the Super Bowl when they had that lead.

All he has to do is basically not fuck up the fourth quarter against the Patriots, and he made a ton of mistakes. You could say if Eli was managing that game, he probably wins that game all the mistakes were on matt ryan in that game no i'm not saying all of them were but like he's playing with pace and you know making i don't know i just think whenever you have to start doing like the the ancillary stuff like okay but what do all the numbers tell us what i don't think

he's a hall of famer i'm not arguing i know but i'm arguing with the hershey brothers right now okay and obviously you're gonna not like me after i know, but I'm arguing with the Hershey brothers right now. Okay. And obviously, you're going to not like me after I said that, but I'm sorry. Whatever you have to say. I mean, it's my whole Olympic gold medal thing

with the NBA guy. Like, if the second thing you're telling me about is fucking gold medal, then he's not a Hall of Famer. Do you think Flacco is a Hall of Famer? No.

Flacco had the greatest postseason we've ever had. That's awesome. So if that's your number one case for Eli, then now we have to also consider Flacco. All right. Is Isaiah Thomas a Hall of Famer in the NBA?

The Celtics one? Yeah, because that run against the Wizards was unbelievable. I just don't think, I think if you're a Hall of Famer, you have to be one of the best five guys in your position in football for a while. And he never was at any point. He wasn't. This is my case for Terrell Davis. As I was adamant, I thought Terrell Davis was a hall of famer.

For a couple of years, he was the best running back I think I'd ever seen. For just for, I need five yards. This is my number one pick of all time to get five yards. If you give him a decent offensive line, he's getting five yards. And I think that matters. He was the best player in the league for two straight years.

They won Super Bowls both those years. He got hurt with a fluke injury. We didn't have this science back then. If Gale Sayers is a Hall of Famer, Terrell Davis has to be a Hall of Famer. That was the case. What I don't like in the Hall of Fame stuff, and it's kind of I've heard the Robert Horry case because Casey Jones is in.

I don't think it should be this thing that's like a credit score where it's like, what's the lowest credit score that gets me this financing? And some people make the argument of, okay, well, if Terrell Davis is in or Gale Sayers is in, that means Terrell. Like Davis at least was a dominant player who basically was as big, not a bigger reason than Elway that the Broncos won those two Super Bowls. I'm pro-Horry. Are you really? Yeah.

I'm actually surprised he hasn't gotten into the Basketball Hall of Fame. But I would, I mean, come on, dude. He is the all-time example of a glue guy. That's why I would have him in. I wrote about him in my book. I put him in my pyramid because I was just like, you know, you can't, you can just have a team of superstars.

It might work. It might not. But over and over again, we've seen teams that win titles that always have Robert Horry on their team. Whoever that version of that year is, you need those guys. We just saw with Toronto. Lowry's not a hall of famer,

or actually maybe he might, he might be able to get the stats. Horry averaged seven points a game. But he knew what he was and he could rise to the occasion whenever it mattered. And he did all the dirty stuff. Why, why is it, why is it okay just to acknowledge what you said without being like,

Hey, and now we're going to put in a guy that scored seven a game. And I don't look, but we're talking about the dumb, the basketball fame is the dumbest one of all the hall of fames. Don't say that. Cause you're going to be in it one day. No,

don't say that. Listen, 10 years ago, I tried to blow it up and create a pyramid and redo it. I want to be, can I induct you? Can I be your presenter? I want to do the Michael Jordan speech where I'm just angry at everybody talking about the people of the Boston Herald.

I see the Heralds here. Yeah. Assholes. Hey, Harold, how's your Chinese food order now? Somebody get me an egg roll. No, the basketball Hall of Fame is going to get to the point where Anton Jameson is going to make the Hall of Fame. He's going to make it. somebody get me an egg roll no I the basketball hall of fame is going to get to the point

where Anton Jameson is going to make the hall of fame he's going to make it he's 20,000 points he's making it but that's my whole thing of like oh hey did you have a ton of points

and at no point do we ever think you were the best player on a really good team but we've already lost we've lost the basketball hall of fame it's over

the ship has sailed the bar now is so low that Robert Horry will get in. Football, I still feel like we can do the right things here. Quarterbacks that win titles get into the Hall of Fame in the NFL. Name us then.

Yeah. Name us career stats are horrific. What about Julian Edelman? Can you even do this? I can't imagine he's a Hall of Famer. That one blows my mind. And people are like, oh, you know,

it's kind of like the Bernie Williams thing where you go, well, look at all of the post-season numbers and all this stuff. I go, because they played way more games. They added all these extra playoff games. And yes, Bernie was a really nice player. Where'd you stand on Owens? Yeah, I would put T.O. in.

So he is, I think, the best football Hall of Fame argument right now other than Eli. Eli's probably 1A, Owens is Yeah, I would put T.O. in. So he is I think the best football Hall of Fame argument right now other than Eli. Eli's probably 1A, Owens is 1B. Because Owens was a disaster of a teammate in a sport where teammates really do matter. Yeah. And was really aggressively bad as a teammate. And was

so talented, he was able to make up for it in a bunch of different ways. But ultimately, I thought that's how we left him legacy-wise, where it was like, man, that guy has a fucking handful. Wouldn't want to play with that guy. Really talented, but fuck. Then 10 years

passes, like Terrell Owens, man, he was underrated because time passes. You tend to forget certain stuff. He completely submarine those Eagles teams that were really good. He was just awful to McNabb. That was some of the worst stuff we've, teammate stuff we've seen.

It's really awful to him. And I don't know. I thought that team could have won a title potentially. But on the other hand, what he did in the 04 Superbowl coming back from a broken leg was like superhuman. We're like, this isn't going to work.

And he's running around. You're going, are you kidding me? Like that, I don't want to say it changed, but it just, I put a lot of value on what he did that week to get ready for the Super Bowl. I think ultimately I'm leaning toward he is a Hall of Famer, but I do really value the personality, teammate stuff. I don't think the voters value it that much.

I can only go by the standard. It's always kind of funny how somebody being a complete disaster of a human being, and then once enough time passes, it's just, man, that guy was a handful on Fridays. You're like, what? And then there's the difference between being an out-of-control person that's a detriment to your team, and then the person that's out of control who somehow finds a way to continue to contribute every single Sunday but I think history tells us enough in sports that we don't really care about the personal stuff that much and you're right like football feels more team than the other things I mean it's kind of getting back to some of the stuff that we're talking about at the top but with T.O. you know I blink and I go

that dude was one of the game-changing playmakers in that league for a really long time and has the stats to back it up. So I don't love all the T.O. stuff at all. He was definitely a one-on-one. I think he was a specific type of receiver I had never seen before. Since then, we've seen variations. And the fun thing was, like in the beginning, it's always kind of funny how you're like, does someone become this or does someone start to let us know who they really are and with to you can remember

how much fun it was with san francisco where it was just oh my god and that catch with steve young against the pack so that's that helps us off and that catch that that stuff where you're going this dude is a problem and then i'll never forget like because he had the record for the most catches in a game right did he tie it or did he break it with receptions in a game i'll look it up right now um he did this feature where they walked around times square and he was pissed because he he didn't see any to jerseys uhseys in there. Yeah, so T.O. broke the record in 2000 with 20 catches and then Brandon Marshall broke it nine years later. Your ability to Google

while you're making a point has really set you apart. When we talk about Hall of Fame, that'll be one of the things I bring up with Ursula. I saw him Google Terrell Owens stats while making a point about Terrell Owens that had nothing to do with the stats. This is great. What Hall of Fame am I the closest to getting into?

Rewatchables Hall of Fame. Yeah, I may never do another one. The town. Yeah. I want to be like Gail Sayers. That was our most listened to podcast of the year. People were sending it for Rewatchables. That was the number one earlobe grabber

uh i'm glad i'm glad we and people found out you want to be shy and stepdad it's great some running jokes there i'm getting a lot of traction from that but guys are like if lively anything happens on social media people are like and i'm like don't do this like her her husband's a superhero i don't want to deal with that guy. But, you know, he could be next in line. Yeah. T.O. Man, he played for like two more teams that I remember. Did you know he played for Buffalo and Cincinnati?

The Buffalo one I remember. I don't remember. I was there for the Buffalo. I barely remember that. Yeah. Hall of Fame. Football has the best chance

of still being normal. And the Eli thing will be a really good limits test. There's going to be a ton of catches. He's getting in. If he played for... Cincinnati. The Cincinnati Bengals and won two Super Bowls for them, does he get in?

And how much does beating the 18-0 Pats have to do with this? In a game where he scored 17 points? Yeah, 17-14. Is that it? The Niners game, the guy fumbles the punt. That was another one. I mean, he just...

A lot of breaks, man. Sometimes you need breaks. Thank you very much for doing this. I really appreciate it. I really enjoy having the Ryan Rosillo podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. It's going well.

Yeah. And I appreciate that. Chris Long, too. Yeah, Chris Long every Monday. Subscribe. We had a little scheduling thing this week. We'll have it again. Check us out.

Rate and review. Subscribe to the Ryan Russillo podcast, and I'll be on the Hot Takes podcast. Hotest Take. Hotest Take, sorry. Yeah, next week. Sorry. And then another project that I'm up here working on

here at the studios. Pretty excited about it. Don't even want to tease it because somebody might steal it. It's such a good idea. Today's episode is brought to you by Floor & Decor. Floor & Decor is where the pros go for tile, wood, stone, and installation materials. But the best part about Floor & Decor is their pro services and loyalty reward program. From the dedicated pro hotline to the exclusive pro app,

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