The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Booger McFarland on Chiefs-Rams | Dual Threat With Ryen Russillo (Ep. 13)

Episode Date: November 21, 2018

Ryen Russillo discusses the NFL MVP race and talks with football analyst Booger McFarland about the historic Chiefs-Rams matchup on this week's 'Monday Night Football.' Russillo closes the show with thoughts on the CFB playoff rankings. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, my name is Ryan Russillo and this is the Dual Threat Podcast from The Ringer. Please subscribe, rate, and review. I gotta admit, I'm a little hot to start this thing. Couple different things going on. What's up with me lately? Well, let me tell you. I stepped on a bee the other day at the beach. Nice stinger in the left. Small toe, smallest toe. That's a guy on the outside.

Some people talk about the importance of that toe for balance. I'd lose that toe for a million bucks. And I do well, you know, not that well, but you know, I would still probably lose it. But there's always this moment when you haven't been stung by a bee in a really long time. Like when I used to work construction and I'd step on a nail and it would go through my foot or i'd get one stuck in my arm or something terrible staple gun you know maybe somebody hammered from the cape just you know he's he's been he hit the wharf a little hard for lunch and then he you know staple you know what i'm saying anybody who's worked construction knows what i'm talking about uh dorma um but if not you don't know yeah

so the b like immediately make oh something's wrong oh wow this hurts wait am i allergic no i've never been but it's some weird body chemistry gonna happen we're at 40 something i like to say 40 something now yeah yeah yeah yeah and you're kind of sitting around you go you know i still had like another hour in me at the beach and i wanted to read more and i'm watching these guys surf because i think I'm close and then I don't want to go out there and be a Joey and snake anybody's way. But then I see all these other clowns out there. I'm like, I just got to get, just got to get out there with the board, but I don't really like my board cause it's too long. I can't really turn it. Um, so I'm not

allergic to bees. So there's an update there. I'm a little hot to start this thing cause I'm on a two scoop, a pre-workout down the street. Heavy leg day today. Not too heavy, but I'm doing some different stuff, different techniques with the legs close together on some of the squats to get that outside quad burn that a lot of the chicks like. And that guy was on the leg press machine. I know leg presses aren't great. Like I'm not one of those skinny guys that just puts a ton of plates on the leg press to try to be like, look how cool I am because I can't do any of the other real exercises. My move. You're right. You know who you are out there. I used to do leg presses in high school and think it was awesome because it was the only

thing I could really put any weight on. And my man was on it for 43 minutes. New record. You can't beat it. You won't know anyone. You'll never see anything like it. Hollywood Equinox, I mean, absolutely blew my mind because I start a timer. I time all my stuff now. So I'm going, I'm fast to get a little pace going. It's been a big thing with me lately. Tempo in football, tempo for me in the workouts. And yeah, this guy was on it. I mean, this is not an exaggeration. I looked down, I went, oh my God, that guy is still on it.

I looked down at my timer. I was at 43 minutes. So I did some calf stuff. And then as soon as he got up, another guy grabbed it. So I was like, all right. Was he like, dude, I'm listening to dual threat right now. I'm almost done. No, that was really cool though. When the guy jogged by me, I don't know if I mentioned that on the ESPN one or this one. No, you did it on this one. It was on this one. 43 minutes, that's almost a full dual threat pod right there. He could have been listening. No,

we usually give the people 60. We usually give the people 60. Booger McFarlane's going to give us 20 plus minutes. He was on the call of an historic Monday night football game. That thing was incredible. And that's probably what we're all going to talk about. I'm going to talk about that at the beginning. Oh, yeah. The one other tidbit that I have, just some Rye updates. I may have a stalker.

Not 100% sure what the hell is going on. But I found barefoot footprints from somebody that got up into my balcony to my bedroom, but the bedroom thing's always locked. So you're never going to get in. And I didn't hear anything. But when I saw the footprints, I realized I go, this person jumped onto this, took three steps and then turned around. And there's so much dust just cause, you know, it's LA, uh, and I don't hose down my deck every day. I saw the footprints. And then at first I'm like, wait a minute, you know, could it have been me?

You know, and then I checked it out, forensics, the whole thing, CSI. And those are not my footprints. What size do you think? Are we talking a man? Small. No, I think it's a girl. Huh.

So, you know, I don't know. I don't want to sound shallow, but, you know, like how'd you guys meet? Well, she's pretty aggressive and, you know, things have been a little slow for me. So, you know, kind of just, let's see how this goes. One day she was just there. Right, yeah. It's kind of a weird start.

Maybe we won't tell her. We'll just say we met on Tinder. Never asked her to leave. Yeah, right. Like, hey, get out. How old are you? So, yeah. I don't know.

I don't know if it's real or not. May have to get some more surveillance cams installed at the at the estate. But those are not my footprint. They're not men footprints. So if you're a homeless woman in the South Bay area trying to break into my place, you know, I don't know what to tell you. We're on to you. OK, have a little pre-roll or just get a hotel. All right. And you can get a hotel from the good folks at Hotel Tonight. Let's talk about Hotel Tonight by showing you top rated hotels with unsold rooms. Hotel Tonight makes it easy

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The Rosenthal and Jesselnik Vanity Project. Well, that show ended, but hope remained that they would one day return. Great news, they're back, now part of Comedy Central's podcast network. Anthony and Greg will discuss sports, current events, and everything in between. The Rosenthal and Jesselnik Vanity Project is dead. Long live the Jeselnik and Rosenthal Vanity Project. Catch new episodes every Tuesday night wherever you listen to your podcasts. Before we do any of the college football playoff ranking reaction,

which we'll get to at the back end, don't worry, Chris Fowler trivia this week is incredible. Really pumped about that. Booger McFarlane coming up a little bit later. I do have to just start with what we saw with Kansas City and LA. I always, like, other than just going, hey, that was awesome. Like, you don't need, that's not why you're subscribing to the pot. That's not why you're giving it five stars. Hey, did you hear Rosillo on that game? He said it was awesome. Oh, good enough for me. But I started reading all sorts of different things. Like, what does this mean?

And I, too, am kind of at this point where I don't know that I can explain all this stuff. I keep thinking is it that the NFL just kept doing it wrong all this time? And I think part of that is true. If you listen to my ESPN pod with Steve Young,

where I did all that USFL stuff with Steve Young's contract, which is an incredible story, but I started asking about today's game, and it is true. I don't believe that it's only because of the way the game is called. I think it's a combination of the way the game is called, not only just freedom of movement, kind of like we have in basketball right now, which is a whole separate issue,

game is called not only just freedom of movement kind of like we have in basketball right now which is a whole separate issue but also the emphasis on the nfl as i have i the analogy i've used before is is the dui laws in scandinavia where they want them to be so um extensive i don't know if that's the right word but they they want it to be to the point where you can't even have a half a beer and legally drive a car because they're like this is the best way to prevent anything from happening. Let's be excessive in the way we punish this. And that's what the NFL has done with safety issues because they're sick of everyone and all these different media outlets crushing the last few years saying they don't care about safety. So they'd rather you be mad and be upset about a flag that isn't deserved,

like that helmet to helmet thing that we saw that was ridiculous because the tight end lowers his helmet into a defensive back who's trying to go at his legs. The NFL hasn't cared that it's excessive. So you add in that. You add in that everything seems to be pass interference. And I hope to God we never have replay on pass interference because I think everything in slow motion replay looks like pass interference, and we'll have even more flags. But then you also have the minds of some of these coaches that have decided that, and I think in a game like we see with the Rams and Chiefs where you go, you may stop me first down, you may stop me second down,

but you're not going to stop me from getting 10 yards three times in a row. So I don't even care. And then when you look at the completion percentages, I used to always go, okay, what are the most important stats? Is it rating? Not all the time it can be misleading. Is it yardage? Nah, because sometimes guys are really good in between the 20s and they can't close it out carrie collins alex smith well now i'm gonna say i feel i feel bad we shouldn't say

anything bad about alex smith because that leg injury was brutal although colt mccoy who was trying to get him on us now we won't be able to get him on because he's a starter effort that kyle all right got it Help a brother out. I watch this and go, maybe it is only about forcing turnovers and having small safety hybrid linebackers and trying to get, like, I'm constantly now

watching this going, what would I do? And not like I'm some football coaching mind, but like what is the next thing to try to balance out what we're seeing? Because that's always what we grew up with, right? All of us that have watched football. Ah, the defense will catch up eventually.

They'll figure this thing out. There'll be some other cycle. There'll be some sort of Dungy 2, Tampa 2, Cover 2, Hybrid, all of these things. I remember 15 years ago arguing about a 4-3 or a 3-4 and what was better because you had to stop the run. Who gives a shit? three or a three four and what was better because you had to stop the run who gives a shit like three four four three i remember being obsessed with whether or not the pats would have a d tackle that was a true three four nose tackle and the pats even going back here and i'm not even talking like i think it's more than five years ago they were lining up in nickel more than 75 percent of

time anyway so who cares what your base was called a three four now tv stations and their broadcast have actually evolved to the point where they're just putting the five defensive backs out there instead of the extra linebacker who's never going to play anyway so as i watch all that and i look at again kind of getting back to what i was talking about quarterback completion percentage was like okay if you're over 60 or something and that was kind of my anti-vick argument because i always thought vick was pretty overrated he was just so okay, if you're over 60 or something, and that was kind of my anti-Vick argument because I always thought Vic was pretty overrated. He was just so much fun that you let that kind of get in the way that he wasn't really a great quarterback. And then he did have that one awesome run with Philly with, by the way, Andy Reid.

And now I go, wait a minute, I'm supposed to go completion percentage now? Like, that sounds stupid. I mean, I was going through this morning. The number of guys over 65%. Wait till I get to, I think, the last guy, somebody you've heard of. There used to be years where there'd be five quarterbacks over 65% completion. And now it's 21. And you know who isn't at that number?

Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers is 62. Josh Rosen lasts right now at 55%. I mean, these numbers are ridiculous. Breeze is 77%. Matt Ryan, 70%. 71%. Kirk Cousins is 71%.

Although, you know, that Minnesota team, that's a whole other topic with their debacle not being able to move the ball against Chicago. But then you can sit there and go, well, Goff is really special. Okay, yeah, I guess he is. Maybe Mahomes is that special. Maybe he's the MVP, and I don't love the, hey, let's shit on the other guy to make sure we're arguing Mahomes because I don't want to shit on Drew Brees. The guy's thrown one pick, his one turnover all season long. Maybe he is your MVP, but at the same time, I also don't want to turn this into Mahomes had a bunch of turnovers

on a Monday night classic. So therefore now Brees is the guy. Cause then I have to do this thing where I'm supposed to dump on one guy supporting cast and say, one's terrible, one's better. They're both good supporting cast. Okay. New Orleans has the better defense. That means Mahomes has to do it every single possession. You know, I don't know. I mean, I'd be leaning Mahomes, but I couldn't sit there and say, Breeze is a terrible call. Like, there are certain arguments. Like, that argument right there, if you said, hey, I'm going with Breeze, and I'm like, I'm going, I wouldn't get mad at you.

I mean, it's a little bit like the Rodgers-Brady thing. I think Aaron Rodgers is the most talented quarterback I've ever seen. Brady has the better resume. But when they played each other on a Sunday night a couple weeks ago, you had to somehow dump all over the other guy and point out how great Belichick was and how the defenses are generally better, so therefore the front office is better,

and that Rodgers has done it all on his own. And I would argue Rodgers has done it with a lot less than Brady has. But at the same time, that's not me dumping on Brady. Now, if you were to come to me and say, hey, the Avengers, the Hulk is more important than the, what's it, Black Widow? Scarlett Johansson? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's the Black Widow?

Like, I would agree that the Hulk is more important than Black Widow. She didn't have any powers. Now, is that sexist? No. Now, if I said, hey, the Condoleezza Rice story about being the Browns head coach, that's a stupid story. Is that sexist? Actually, that's not sexist because that was a stupid story. that was a stupid story. I don't understand how that story happened. Like one guy calls her amazing. And then it's the number two story on ESPN.com after it had been

refuted by the Browns and Condoleezza Rice herself. I think whatever happened there is like, I look, I got one source to say that they're interested, sort of, but not. And I know a ton of people are going to retweet this thing. So let's go ahead. And before anybody does call me sexist on that one, I wouldn't hire Ted Cruz to coach Kansas. All right. So not political, just reality. I was talking Rogers Brady, right? And then I started talking the Avengers. Yeah. I just, I just don't understand what the black widow actually does. And I've had that, that that's look, that was a bit of an aside here, but I'm wondering, and this is just an open-ended kind of theory thing is you go, all right, maybe my homes is insane. Maybe golf and my homes are going to be the two, two of the five best quarterback. I mean, you know, look, Wentz was that guy last year.

Prescott was supposed to be that guy three years ago. So, you know, we can get a little caught up in the moment here, but what my homes has done is insane. And golf is the guy that gets the W with all of this. So let's say Goff and Mahomes are destined to be, for the next decade, two of the five best. Some would want to even say one and two. Let's just say five best. And the way this stuff works is usually one of them won't be. But is it just so much easier?

Are the quarterbacks that much more talented? Okay, fine. They grow up in all these drills, seven on seven. We had Dilfer talk to us about all this stuff, that these kids are more prepared for all of the stuff, the attention, the moment, the crowd, like all of it. They're just more conditioned than ever before.

Okay, I'll buy that. Are they more physically gifted? Okay, the evolution of human beings, seven footers like Giannis who can dribble and do stuff we've never seen before. Perzingis, Anthony Davis, like that's the evolution of the basketball human, the evolution of the baseball human where all of these guys are throwing 98 now. Okay. Like these are real things. So I guess it's true that it also could be happening with quarterbacks who aren't just sick runners or great arms. They just combine themselves, and it's almost like lab thing,

where I used to think running quarterbacks are kind of like fool's gold. Like eventually, hey, you're going to learn how to just play out of the pocket. And now Mahomes makes some of these plays where he's running away from the line of scrimmage, back away to his right, and still turns his body and makes an insane throw. And that, I think, is the evolution of the human. But as I start thinking about all of this stuff, and then I see Trubisky and his numbers,

and I don't think he's that good, but the numbers are sick. And I wonder, well, wait. Is this really going to happen? Like, whenever anybody said, hey, you know what you need to do now in today's NFL? You've got to draft a rookie quarterback, pay him the rookie skill salary, and therefore you need, hey, dude, I get it. I get the math. I get what Russell Wilson costs. When he's under a million

bucks a quarterback and he's as good as Russell Wilson, you can spend everywhere else. And then guess what? When you have to spend on the quarterback, you lose everything else. That's why the Rams were able to bring in all these people this offseason, because they're still paying Goff minimal money compared to what they're going to end up having to pay him. And the same thing for Mahomes. Even though you'd like to see a little bit more defensively, at least just talent-wise because of the money that you're spared from Mahomes here for another year. But it's just assuming a lot. It's like when basketball people would say, hey, I want to build a team just like the Golden State Warriors. Oh, really? You want to draft the best shooting backcourt in the history of the NBA

and maybe the best talent we've ever seen from a team one through five? You're just going to go do that? Okay. Like, it's easy. And it's not easy to just say, well, let me step back here. I don't think it was – it seemed absurd to me to suggest you could just then go, well, hey, I'll pick somebody in the first round, he'll be my awesome young quarterback,

and I'll spend everywhere else. But I'm almost wondering if it's actually a possibility in today's game that you don't have to hit the home run at quarterback like you used to have to because of all the factors that I've just laid out and that you can just get somebody to put up numbers if you coach them the right way, exploiting the way defenses are penalized now, and putting your money elsewhere because you're paying that rookie scale. I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm not dismissive of it as some assumption.

And look, I still think most of the guys, I mean, that's always been my thing for 20 years, half the first round picks are bust at QB. Does this mean it's a lower bust ratio now because everybody's just better? Maybe. And I'm not putting

Goff and Mahomes in that category because they're special. It's pretty clear that they're special now, but this is the kind of game you watch and go, this is different, and I don't know when it's changing anytime soon. Before we get to Booger McFarlane, who was on the call of Monday night, let's talk about Belvedere Vodka because they were a big help for us out at Caesars. I want to thank them again, the entire crew. They were awesome. Hope to work together with them on something in the future. But today's show

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and remember to always drink responsibly. At what moment did you go, this is special. Like, this is one of the great games I'll ever see. Man, you know what?

It was probably, it was 13-0. And, you know, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, man, this thing's not going to live up to the hype. This is going to be a dud. And all of a sudden, it was 13-0, and the Chiefs just stormed back. And I'm like, oh, okay, now we got something. And then the Rams go up 10 more. Then the Chiefs come right back.

And at that point, when they made that second comeback, you could see the look in the players' eyes. Because I'm down on the field level. You get a chance to see facial expression. You get a chance to see things that are going on on the sideline. And you knew it was going to be a back-and-forth game. And just the competitiveness that was going on and the facial expression, to me, at that point,

I think it was probably about midway through the second quarter toward the end of the first half, I knew it was going to be special. We were hanging out before the game. We had lunch and you were talking about certain things. I want you to kind of share with everybody now, what is it about that Chiefs interior offensive line that you knew was going to be a problem and may have been the deciding factor in the way the Rams won this game or able to attack them? Well, I think if you look at their two tackles, Fisher and Swartz, pretty good players. One's a number one overall pick. The other's a guy who's been pretty efficient. He's got the most consecutive snaps

freak going in the NFL right now, over 7,000. But that's where it kind of stops at because those interior three, man, you got guys, uh, Cam Irving was drafted at center in Cleveland nights playing guard. Um, the guy that's at center, he's, uh, you know, they've been on like the third center, the guy, right. Guard's been on three or four practice spots. So you knew they were going to have trouble blocking and Dominic and Sue and Aaron Donald. And I knew in order for the Rams to win,

they were going to have to get pressure up the middle because Patrick Mahomes got a quick release. And I just listened to Andy Reid because we had Andy Reid in the production week Sunday night. And I looked at him and I said, Coach, you kind of like your matchup on the back end. He's like, yeah. But we got to block him up front.

And so you just got a feeling that between my film study and talking to Andy Reid, that they could be had on the back end. But they're in two-year three, had to hold up. And they held up for a little while. But, man, when Aaron Donald got loose, he made some spectacular plays that was just unbelievable in the game. Yeah, so you would say on paper and even on film,

and maybe even Andy Reid was confirming this, that the secondary for Los Angeles is something they knew they could exploit. Well, without a doubt. And I think everybody around the league understands that right now, especially without Aqib Tlaib. Here's why. Marcus Peters is a corner that likes to play off coverage, meaning he likes to play 8 to 10 yards off where he can watch the football,

watch the quarterback's eyes. He can jump a lot of routes. He makes a lot of routes. He makes a lot of big plays that way. Aqib Tlaib is a guy who wants to be up-pressed, man-to-man. He wants to be in your face, smelling your breath. He likes to play that way. Well, since Tlaib has been hurt, they've kind of been using Peters in the Tlaib role and using some other rookies, Troy Smith on the other side,

to try to play in the Peters role. And they're all out of whack. And I think that's why you see Peters struggling. That's why this past defense is struggling. So Marcus Peters has been getting cooked. But just to give a little shout out to him, he's doing it in a role that he's not suited for. Now, we knew the Chiefs defense coming into this statistically

isn't anything to get excited. I mean, that's really the theme of this year is that the best teams are these high-powered offenses, and it hasn't really mattered that they're, you know, if not just in the second half of the league, we're talking like near the bottom with some of the teams that we probably think have the best chance to win a Super Bowl. So what were the Rams doing where we know that whether it's 11 personnel, how they line up, like it's the same formation it feels like all of the time. And yet they, even without Cooper Cup and bringing in another receiver who was terrific,

what are they able to do that, you know, I can understand what Kansas City's done with all their playmakers in space and misdirection, your eyes defying you and all that kind of stuff. What is it about the Rams approach that's somewhat different but just as effective? So what the Rams do is they came into the game the number two Russian football team in the National Football League. They didn't run the ball a lot last night. Sean McVay came out saying, you know what, I like my matchup. I like my matchup against Fuller.

I like my matchup against Skendrick. The tight ends that we have, Higby and Everett, I like their matchups. And so the running game was really a decoy last night. Todd Gurley only had, like, I want to say eight or nine carries toward the end of the third quarter. So they were going a lot of play action. And what happens with the play action is you get a Max Patek look. And so now you have six or seven guys to block the Chiefs for Russia. or rushes. Well, conversely, what that means is Jared Goff's going to get a lot of time. He holds the football more than anybody else in the National Football League. Now, on the flip side, you only got two or three guys in the

route. That's why, if you saw last night, Jared Goff was sitting back there patting the ball and patting the ball, because he had to wait for Cooks and Woods to get open down the field. And, you know, Cooks wound up cramping up because he was running so many deep over routes, but the Rams really do that.

And then the moment you say, OK, I'm going to drive back and I'm going to play fast, now they hand it to Ty Gurley up the middle for 15 yards. So Sean McVay does a really, really good job of showing you one look and then giving you three or four different plays off the same look. It's a simple offense by design. It's different than the New Orleans Saints. They give you 12 personnel groupings where you got to mix and match and learn everything. Sean McVay is going to give you 11 personnel, 95% of the game.

He's just going to give you so many different looks and so many different variations. And the thing last night, Ron, I don't know if you noticed this, the tempo they play with. They play with an unbelievable tempo where they hurry up and get to the line of scrimmage. They snap the ball. They hurry up and get up there and then they wait and look for the sideline. So they play with so much tempo. They can kind of dictate to you what coverage and defense that you have to be in. And McVay

did a wonderful job with that last night. He and Jerry Goff. I noticed a couple times, and this is something we've talked about before, about who Goff has become, right? And I now have a video that's going around on Ram's fan sites where they cut up like 40 seconds of the eight-minute segment where week one, 2017 preseason, so after Goff's rookie year, McVay's staff comes in and they only had Goff play one series and they got like a touchdown after a turnover, right? And they yanked him immediately. Now, I didn't realize McVay just never wanted to play any of his guys and did that again

this preseason because it's the first time as a head coach. And I thought, oh man, that like sometimes teams will do that with younger guys or people are trying to build up their confidence. They'll yank them immediately. And then Goff ends up becoming a stud and he's statistically terrific like everybody else. But we thought that he stunk. We thought, you know, I hated even after a year suggesting that he was going to be a bust. And that was my overall segment that I did is that it doesn't even feel fair to suggest this. But I also felt like there was a story that Fisher had started putting out there that once Wentz was the better quarterback, that he actually always had wanted Wentz and that the team was moving to LA and they wanted a poster boy and it wanted to be

able to have flyers and build around a star. And it's not a running back. It's a guy like golf. Like all of these things have been said because coaches that lose their jobs are the best at telling you how great every other quarterback they wanted was, except they were overruled, right? I mean, Hugh Jackson just did it with like the last seven good ones. So I, I guess I'm, I'm wondering, like, I understand coaching's important, but how could you go from someone that we thought was going to be a bust, perhaps, at number one overall, to now this? Like, have you ever seen anything like this just because of a coaching staff change?

Well, you know, to be fair to the process, you make your biggest improvement between you and one of you two. Now, with that being said, have you ever seen Game of Thrones, Ryan? Are you a big Game of Thrones guy? Love Game of Thrones. Okay. You know when they have people do the walk of shame and they just yell, shame, shame, shame. Yeah, that was a weird scene. Somebody should put Jeff

Fisher on that walk right now and just yell shame because it is a shame what he did with Jared Goff. Jared Goff has always been a talented quarterback, but what's happened now with Sean McVay is, number one, he's getting very good coaching. Number two, McVay has developed a relationship with Jared Goff, and they trust each other, and they see the game the same way.

And I think if you go back and you look at the relationship, very similar to what you said about Jeff Fisher, Jeff Fisher just could not relate to Jerry Goff. He's a defensive guy. Yeah, he's a USC guy, but he just doesn't fit. He doesn't relate to Jerry Goff. And so now it's a combination of Goff making

improvement from year one to year two. But I think the biggest reason is Sean McVay put his arm around this guy and said, you know what? I'm going to do what I think that you can do best. You got to tell me what you like. And if you tell me what you like, I'm going to do what you like, and we're going to build this thing together. And to see the maturation of Jared Goff from where he started with Jeff Fisher to where he is now, I just want to make Jeff Fisher walk the walk of shame and just yell shame for like two hours. Because Goff is a low-key MVP candidate.

Now, he's not going to win it because Todd Gurley is on his team and Drew Brees is only throwing one pick and 75,000 passes. And Patrick Mahomes is doing ungodly stuff. But for his name to be mentioned in the MVP candidate race from where he started a couple of years ago, as far as just being a guy who we thought was the bust who couldn't even call the play in the huddle on hard knocks without everybody laughing. It just goes to show you how important offensive coaches are to young, new quarterbacks.

Yeah, and hard knocks always does a really good job of selling whatever that storyline is. And whatever it is, like we come out of hard knocks going, oh, wow, the Atlanta Falcons are going to be really tough and physical this year. Like we come out of hard knocks going, oh, wow, the Atlanta Falcons are going to be really tough and physical this year. I never forget Stanford Steve being like, remember Atlanta last year, they were weak, they weren't physical. So the coaches are telling all the producers and telling everybody around,

like, we're going to be tough, we're going to be physical. And then like there's this carryover where we'll start to think someone's really stupid or a coach is really dumb. I remember the Jets watching them negotiate with Darrell Rivas' people and coming away from that being like, these guys aren't very impressive talking about these contract negotiations. I can't believe all these guys make the decision for an NFL team. And it may be unfair because it could be a way a TV show is selling it, but that's a really good point about Goff and Hard Knocks because you end up leaving going, oh my gosh, this guy doesn't even talk. But then again, look at last night. Maybe the most exciting game in the history of the regular season of this league. And Goff, he was unmoved.

Some guys I think are boring by design, and then other guys I think are just maybe a little bit boring. And I know coaches love quarterbacks that are boring and don't want to be celebrities. But he was just totally unfazed by the whole thing. It was astonishing. I watched both of his post-game interviews interviews on ESPN and he's just like, yeah,

okay. You know, I got to work on my pocket depth. Like what? Hey, so you know what? I just kind of went on a ramp, but I actually want to get it back to you because of the access you have

with Monday night football and these production meetings where you sit and talk to these coaches. Give me an anecdote of maybe both McVay and Reed talking about these two great young quarterbacks, like something that stood out to you and McVay on Goff and then Reed on Mahomes. You know, McVay talked to us about Jared Goff. He said, you know, the moment is not too big for him, and he understands what we want to do offensively. And he's gotten to the point where he and I can look at each other

in a certain situation, and we know what plays that we want. And there was a moment last night in the game where Sean McVay is running down the sideline right in front of me, and I'm like, he's trying to go call a timeout. And before he got to the rail, Dolph turned to the sideline and signaled a timeout before McVay did because they knew a certain look they had wasn't the look they wanted and they both needed to get out of the play

and they were both trying to call a timeout at the same time. The clock wasn't running down or anything like that. They just knew based on the play that they called and what they wanted that they couldn't get it. And so just something that simple with McVay, he and Goff were on the same page.

And as far as Andy Reid, Andy Reid, Ryan, has reinvented himself. If you think about Andy Reid, it's West Coast, it's Mike Holmgren, it's Bill Walsh, it's three-step drop, five-step drop, get the ball out. He's turned into Lincoln Riley and Zone Reid and RPO because he understands that the kid he has, that quarterback, number one, he's good at it because he ran it at Texas Tech. Number two, he's got an arm.

He played baseball. He's got a 95-mile-per-hour fastball-type arm, so he can make any throw. But more importantly, he sees the game with a photographic memory. I know Patrick Mahomes' guy, Dad, LaTroy Hawkins. And, you know, the first time we had him, I just called him and asked him a question. Hey, man, tell me something about this kid I can't see on tape. He said he's got a photographic memory. And no moment that he ever gets in will be too big for him.

I said, how do you know that? He's like, I've been with him for 20 years. He's like, he's been in clubhouses. He's met King Griffey Jr. He's hung out with A-Rod. He's seen the biggest stars. He's been there. He's done that.

It doesn't bother. It doesn't faze him. If you fool him with something one time, you're not going to get him again. And sure enough, Andy Reid said the same thing. He said he's a sponge. He's wise beyond his years. And the one moment that they've had where it was a little adverse was against Kansas City. And I don't know if you've ever seen this, Ryan. who was a little adverse, was against Kansas City. And I don't know if you've ever seen this, Ryan. Andy Reid took his headset off on the sideline while the defense was on the field. He went set on the bench next to Mahone.

And I asked Andy Reid about this. I said, Andy, why'd you do it? He said, you know, sometimes he's a kid, and you need to go put your arm around him and say, hey, kid, you know, everybody's not going to see it how you see it or see it how I see it. What's important is that you get everybody on the same page and he said i'm here for you tell me tell me what are you seeing and what can i do and i thought that was unprecedented for a head coach while the game

was going on while his defense was on the field he took his headset off and went set next to his 22 year old quarterback at the time and said how how can I help you? And those two have a relationship that is special because Andy Reid's 60 years old. Patrick Mahomes is now 23. All right? McVay's 32, 33. Goff is 23, 24. So they're very similar in age, those two.

And so the relationship that these two have is unreal and it's different because the age gap is different on both ends. I've heard a lot of stuff today because I was just kind of curious how, I guess I'd say my colleagues and opinion people would talk about this. This Mahomes thing is incredible in the beginning. I'm always hesitant to wonder if it's real. Not just is this kid going to have a great season, he's going to win MVP,

but are we talking about somebody who's going to be the best quarterback in the league the next two years and the stats are off the charts. And when you start getting into the Breeze MVP thing, something I touched on at the beginning of the podcast, you go, man, I mean, Breeze has one turnover the whole time. And then you look at last night. But, you know, the pick return was a weird,

fluky play by a collapsing offensive line. And then the last two interceptions are, what are we talking, under a minute to go. And especially on the last two interceptions are what are we talking um the under a minute to go and especially on the last one like there's a lot of great quarterbacks that just go hey i'm that's not a brett far of carelessness thing it's a hey you know this is this is the time left on everything so i guess i feel like people were waiting for him to falter and i'm thinking if you're looking at last night where he throws for almost 500 yards and all these touchdowns and completes 72% of his passes, and you can get on him for not having a little bit more pocket awareness

where he's been really, I think, flawless throughout that most of the season with new offensive line guys. Let's not turn him into Brett Favre of this, even though I know those are the comps. I don't see the picks as a carelessness thing. I see those as game, time, clock, situation, the last two, and then kind of a fluky play on the other one. So I don't come away from this going,

oh, you know what, like, cool, you threw up a lot of numbers, but now I think less of you as a quarterback. I actually leave this going, you know, 21 points from the defense, great interior line play by the defensive line for the Rams, but neutral side, I'm picking the Chiefs. Here's what you have to look at this game as. Number one, yeah, I think he would have five turnovers, okay? But yeah, you can take away those last two picks,

but you've got to hold on to the football in the pocket. Yes. The great quarterbacks always say put two hands on the ball, but he's got to learn from that. Now, if you go back to the Patri in the pocket. Yes. The great quarterbacks always say, put two hands on the ball. But he's got to learn from that. Now, if you go back to the Patriot game where they lost, he threw a couple of picks that were bad picks. So there's a little bit of, I'm not going to say Brett Favre, but there's a little bit of carelessness because his arm is so good and he's made so many throws that sometimes,

just like we all do, he starts feeling himself a little bit. He says, you know what? Yeah, I can make that throw. I know it's 55 yards away, but I can get it there in a second and a half. And I think the more he plays, you got to realize, though, Ryan, think about it. Last night was his 12th start in the NFL. He hadn't even started an entire season yet.

And he's already an MVP candidate. He's already thrown for 36, 37 touchdowns, whatever the number is, and he's got an offense that a lot of people are afraid of, and that includes the great defensive guru, Bill Belichick. So, I like you. I came away from the Patriot loss. I came away from the Rams loss last night, saying that

if you're the Chiefs, you've lost two games by six points. In those two games, you committed seven turnovers and 18 penalties. I feel pretty good about my team when I those two games by six points. In those two games, you committed seven turnovers and an 18th penalty. I feel pretty good about my team when I don't beat myself. And I think if you're the Chiefs, that's the way you have to look at the game. We didn't beat ourselves. We feel pretty good about it.

Right. And then as I say that, I go, you know what, though? This Rams defense, especially when they get to lead back, they should be better. Like, there's more dudes. And I like D4. I like Chris Jones. Houston, I don't think is the same guy anymore off the edge, but he's

not bad necessarily. I don't really love the Chiefs secondary, but there's at least a blueprint of names with this Rams defense where they can figure it out. So I wonder when you watch them on film and think of them as 100% healthy, they should be a much better defense than the Chiefs. So there's an argument that we could

have in this podcast too, where we're all kind of sitting here maybe loving the Chiefs too much after two big losses to the Rams and the Pats on the road. If I'm a Rams fan, I'm going, well, wait a minute, don't we have more personnel where this thing could be even better defensively if we're healthy? Yeah, I think if you look at the Rams, the Rams got to feel pretty good about what they're doing, especially when they get the lead back. You know, Peters has been getting picked on and rightfully so, but he's playing out of position.

He's playing off corner, 8 to 10 yards off, and that's not what he, you know, that's something that if you asked him, he'd rather do that. Wade hasn't played a little bit more bump and run. That's what the lead does. And so I think Peters is in a situation now where he's having to kind of fill in and take one for the team and and i thought it was kind of uh it was kind of ironic last night he gets the pick and then i don't know if you can see it he was dancing and kind of toning you know toning his chief teammates or whatever and so last night was special for him but i think they all realized that they're just trying to survive in a secondary now.

They got some guys hurt. Peters is waiting on Tlaib to get back. I talked to Tlaib before the game. He'll be back. They're going to play it safe. He realized that they're there for the playoffs, meaning he and Peters. All right, Tlaib, Peters, Fowler Jr., they're getting up for a playoff run because at some point, Dante Fowler's going to have to get a pass rush

or a sack or leave, or Peters is going to have to get a man-to-man pick or something like that. That's what the Rams are getting up for. Yeah, it's cool that they won last night, but I think the bigger stance I left out of last night is you had two teams that put on an unbelievable game, maybe the best game Monday Night Football has ever seen, but I think that they all realized that last night was just the appetizer.

And if they get to meet for the entree in the Super Bowl or they play bigger teams, the Rams taking on the Saints or the Patriots and the Chiefs get together, I think both of those teams realize that there's something bigger than just making a game of the century like they did last night. I know, and I hate ever doubting New England, but I just can't imagine in a rematch going to Kansas City that New England defense being able to get in the way of this. I just don't. Okay, before I let you go, give me your best after the game.

We know the ESPN execs are out there. This record-viewing thing that we've seen from Monday night and the ratings and how much they've recovered in the last year. But I know you flew back east last night, but just give me something from just the post-game thing with you guys, the staff, or something that you'll always remember. Because you really were a part of history. I mean, you really, whether it's the beginning of this revolution

that we've seen where it's kind of this one game and this moment. But I mean, last night's going to be a game I'll never forget, and you're lucky enough to be part of this, as three guys call on it. Something you'll remember other than the game that happened after. I'll give you two things. One quick, and then one before. So, as the game is getting ready to get started, you know, Roger Goodell is walking by,

and he's, you know, shooting the thumbs up. And, you know, from Goodell, here comes Iger, and here comes Pataro, which is the president of ESPN and the president of Disney. And everybody's coming by, and everybody's saying hello. And you can tell the stars are out. And Jay-Z comes by. He's got his entourage.

So it was an LA feel with the stars out. And then as soon as the game is over, I got to do this Van Pelt hit. So I do the Van Pelt hit, and I do the Van Pelt hit and I get on the golf cart and I go back to where we're staged at. And, you know, Joe Tess has got the biggest voice that I've ever seen or whatever.

And Tess is just sitting in the car and he's spent. And when Whitney's over there and he's kind of got his head down. And so for a crew that called a game that big, it just goes to show you the amount of energy and the amount of focus that it takes to do it for three and a half hours because we were pretty exhausted after the game.

And, you know, a couple of us had flights. I think Whit stayed and flew back this morning. But just the level of energy and effort that it took to call that game, it was fun. It was a privilege and honor because that game was one of the best that the NFL will ever have. But I think people would be surprised just how much effort and focus and execution

it takes to call a game like that, even though it was so fun. And what was the small part? Did you guys do a late night at Mayweather's place in the Ritz? Nah, you know, I didn't see Mayweather. You know, we were trying to get a hold of Puffy and Jay-Z, but they didn't answer my call.

Can't believe that, man. You're right there. You're like seven yards from the field. You're the best, man. I'm really, really happy for you to be a part of that, like I said, kind of history there, and we'll catch up again soon, all right? All right, appreciate it.

Thanks, Ryan. We'll get to the college football playoff rankings that just came out moments ago. And before we do that, and Chris Fowler trivia, the fall sports season is one of the hardest times of the year to get through without a cable subscription. But now, and I know how some of you guys work on the no cable thing, check this out.

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for three months free with a one-year package. Visit expressvpn.com slash duel to learn more. So the playoff rankings are out. Let's go top 10 quick. I mean, I guess we can go a little further if you want to. Alabama 1, Clemson 2, Notre Dame 3, Michigan 4, Georgia 5, Oklahoma 6. Unchanged through that. LSU still at 7, so that's unchanged.

Washington at 8, unchanged. The committee guys, well, I shouldn't say committee guys, just the dudes at ESPN, all the guys I really like a lot, Reese, Joey, Palmer, Pollock, Herbie, and I do actually like every one of those guys. It'd be weird if I said I like four of the five, you figure it out. You figure it out. Yeah. People probably say Palmer, but it's not true. I think Palmer's a good dude. So let's see here. So Washington State's eighth, UCF, the the one change they jump up two spots and they jump past Ohio State and that keeps Ohio State at 10 but what happened was West Virginia fell out again

after a loss that changes kind of the Big 12 stuff a little bit here although they're still alive in this by the way Oklahoma State just an aside for a team that you know is six and five and fifth in the Big 12. And the Big 12 is kind of sneaky good. It really is. I mean, if the second-to-last team, even in front of an improved Kansas, who gave Oklahoma a little bit, we'll get to that later. I don't know, man.

I mean, the Big 12, like I don't think Kansas State's all that great. I do think Texas Tech finishing at 5-6 is disappointing to where they're at right now, but there are times you felt better about them. Iowa State was tough. TCU wasn't as good as we thought they would be, but they're still in the mix of this whole thing. Oklahoma State has beaten Texas, West Virginia, and they were a point away or a two-point conversion of the game that I was at.

They would have beaten three top 10 teams in four weeks for a team that kind of, I don't know. I mean, you know, look again, they're in ninth place in the Big 12. So that was just, man, I talked a lot about Oklahoma State. I didn't mean to do that. Okay, let's focus in on stuff like running through this. You know, the anti-Alabama fans, once again, oh, they're tied with Citadel, they're tied with Citadel. Look, the 11th game of the season, it's always that game that's a little weird.

I don't know if it was Georgia Southern years ago, like in a year where they were rolling through everybody. That was the game, day game. They're not into it. And then they take it out on them in the second half. That stuff happens. They end up winning 50-7, and some of you it, and then they take it out on them in the second half. That stuff happens. They end up winning 50-7, and some of you folks are acting like they lost.

Clemson, Clemson's had some closer games, but they've been on a run now where the defense feels like the Clemson defense that we thought on paper could hang with anybody and probably was more talented than anybody. Still not sure what to make of the ACC. It's just not that good. with anybody and probably was more talented than anybody. Okay? Still not sure what to make of the SEC, or excuse me, the ACC. It's just not that good.

Although Dabo was selling that they have more wins against teams with seven wins than anybody else in the country. I think that was there. Look, everybody's got their propaganda this time of the year. But Clemson, take care of business. They're not going to have to worry about this. Notre Dame, they beat a Syracuse team that's, you know, we thought potentially was, look, they're eight and three. They dropped a bunch of spots in the rankings,

but we thought Notre Dame, that was going to be their toughest challenge to wish them away. And they smashed them. Michigan is now fourth. No, look, they've been fourth. So nothing's changed here. But, you know, of all the scenarios that could play out here, if Michigan beats Ohio State and beats Northwestern,

I still don't know why they would be ahead of Notre Dame. And it won't really matter at that point if that's the 3-4 matchup. Because the head-to-head, even though it's the first week of the season, and I do think these ebbs and flows of teams are very real, where a team like Pitt, someone would say, oh, look how good Pitt is now. And we beat them in week two, like Penn State's argument. You know, I don't know if that's the Pitt team you beat back then. And I'm not even sure that I'm certain of what the answers to all of these things.

But there are teams that evolve and change over the season and are completely different. And maybe Michigan would beat Notre Dame right now. I'm sure a lot of Michigan fans feel that way. And maybe people look at Notre Dame and go, you know, what are you going to do here? And like, that's the whole point is like, I could keep playing this game of trying to knock everybody if I really wanted to. I think Georgia is better than Notre Dame and Michigan, but they've got a loss and their loss is worse than Michigan's loss.

It just is. They got housed by LSU and that's why LSU is still propped up in here. I do think that there's something to be said for the theoretical argument about Oklahoma, because if Oklahoma wins this week, despite just a weird game against Kansas where they gave up 348 yards and four touchdowns on the ground to Kansas, I think the Big 12 defenses are getting in the way of Oklahoma's perception here. And, you know, for people that argue, oh, well, you know, it's just you guys are biased and all this stuff.

No, your Big 12 defenses are more often terrible. They just are. And I know people try to make like the Monday night comparison, be like, oh, that was a Big 12 game. The defensive lines in those games on Monday night made plays. The defensive line is the reason why the Rams won that game against the Chiefs. Your Big 12 teams, your own coaches say you don't line up in the right spots. Oklahoma's new D coordinator has been like, look, we just have guys out of position all the time. Your own people are saying it. And I'd actually, if I were on the staff, I'd stop being

so honest about how poorly you're aligned and how how the kids don't get it and how many missed tackles you have all the time. Because in the weird way this used to work, if Oklahoma beats West Virginia and Texas takes care of Kansas, there's a bunch of Big 12 scenarios. You get really weird here. But if it's the simple one where you expect Texas to beat Kansas and Oklahoma to beat West Virginia, then that's your matchup in the Big 12 title game. And you could have a 12-1 Oklahoma that's somehow avenged the only loss that they've had all season, which was a very close game against Texas. But they're not even mentioned in this thing. So if Georgia were to lose and Michigan takes care of business and Notre Dame doesn't have to worry about the championship game and that's where the championship game

and not having the extra data point can actually help Notre Dame. I don't know how, like, is Oklahoma going to be able to jump them with wins against West Virginia and Texas, two ranked teams? I don't think so. I just don't think that they will. And LSU, for all the angst about LSU still being propped up, it's not by design. You know, you guys got to stop with this stuff. Oh, they're leaving LSU there so that way they can get Georgia back in or they can keep Alabama in and all this stuff.

No, I mean, sometimes it's actually a lot easier. They just think LSU is good. They think LSU is better than the majority of the public does. If you want Washington State ahead of LSU, guess what? Washington State is going to have a chance against Washington in the Apple Cup and then in the Utah game, Pac-12 title game. They're going to have a chance against Washington in the Apple Cup and then in the Utah game, Pac-12 title game. They're going to jump them. If Ohio State beats Michigan and then beats Northwestern, Ohio State's going to jump them. I don't know if UCF can jump them. Maybe they can. I don't think UCF should be in the national title picture. I'm sorry. That's how I felt about it all season long. Great t-shirts, great game day atmosphere in the fake national championship.

And again, Bama has about five fake national championships too, so I'm not even knocking you for doing it. But there really isn't much. And this is kind of the overwhelming. I can't believe how many Saturdays. I was like, this Saturday kind of sucked. I love Saturday as much as anybody. But this has been, there's been a lot of 8 o'clock primetime slots

where I've gone, and that's 8's eight Eastern five Pacific where I go, you know what? There's not really like, I don't have to, like, I can tape this one. And if I don't watch this in the moment live, I'm going to be okay. And when it's Clemson Duke, when it's Purdue, Ohio State, even though that was interesting, um, you know, Boston College, Clemson, I can't, I mean, Boston College, Clemson. I mean, it just feels like there's a lot of Saturdays where I go, wait a minute, what? And then, you know, the Pac-12, and I love the Pac-12,

it just hasn't been as good. But Washington State, I mean, look, they're going to jump LSU, but their non-conference is going to prevent them from getting into that top four. So there you go. I had a really long Big Ten thing, but I'm going to Ten thing but I'm going to save that for later maybe tomorrow on the ESPN pod okay is everybody ready I've done all my reads

right Kyle? Yes sir Chris Fowler Trivia make sure you subscribe, rate, review the Dual Threat Podcast thank you for all your support this week on Chris Fowler Trivia in 1888. This Africa.