The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Brad Stevens on the Celtics Title. Plus, Television’s John Buccigross on the Panthers' Game 7 Stanley Cup Win.

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Russillo is joined by Celtics general manager Brad Stevens to learn what winning a title feels like, discuss the construction of the team, and preview next season (0:39). Then, following the Panthers' Game 7 victory, John Buccigross comes on to explain why the series played out the way it did and why the Oilers couldn’t find the net in Game 7 (34:22). Finally, Life Advice with Ceruti and Kyle (56:44)! What do I do if I get alpha'd in my own home? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Brad Stevens and John Buccigross Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's podcast, we're ready to go. We got Brad Stevens, the architect behind the Boston Celtics championship run, but it's a little bit more than just this team winning. All the stuff that went into it, his transition from head coach to front office, the Butler stuff, and him just talking about his players. It's awesome. John Butcher-Gross, we're talking hockey, the Panthers win game seven, the story of this series,

the turnaround for a franchise in Florida, and then the Edmonton questions, and we got life advice. Enjoy. It's a great time to have him on. Maybe we'd be asking draft questions if it weren't for the accomplishments of this season, but it's Brad Stevens, president of basketball operations for the Celtics.

Congrats and thanks for doing this. How are you? Yeah, no problem. Thank you very much. What's it like? What's it like to win a title? Well, I think, you know, it's funny, I've wondered that because I've been asked a lot over the last 15 years, how different would life have been if that shot

versus Duke would have gone down or if we would have found a way to figure out how to stop those three guards from Connecticut. I just think as vanilla as this answer is going to sound, Ryan, it's not much different. I went home, walked the dog, did laundry. You know, we did have a parade, which was nice. But everything else is, you know, and I think there's some that actually makes you feel good, right? Because it's like, okay, all of the journey, all of the things you do with team, all of the people that haven't had a chance to experience this, you know, obviously it is special to be a part of being the last team standing and winning, but it doesn't

change who you are and it doesn't change who, you know, your guys are. And I said after, you know, a couple days after, like, I don't think any more of Jalen or Jason than I did two weeks ago. You know, I just think they're special, you know, and it's just kind of the way we are, I guess, that it's championship or bust in our society. And it's nice for those guys to kind of, you know, if that's something to check off, that's something to check off. But at the same time, you know, I think it's, it just validates that being a part of a team is the most special

part of it. The parade was pretty sweet though, I will say this. The parade was maybe the most, maybe the coolest thing I've ever been a part of. Pete I was listening to Wick talk at the parade and for a little background, you probably know most of this, but like when I had moved back to Boston professionally, it was the exact same time Wick and his group bought the Celtics and it was Patriots Red Sox nonstop on our radio station. And Wick came on and he was smart about it, he was strategic about it, but it was also him expressing like, we are Celtics fans.

Okay. We're not some hedge fund group that just bought a team that was available here. We grew up with this. We were Celtics fans and you'd think the 2008 title would just be the one that could never be surpassed. It's Celtics Lakers. It's the first one, but knowing that it took this long for the next one, I almost felt like there was an appreciation that he had because he knew what it would feel like and, and they got there again again that you collectively all got there again did

did you pick up on any of that knowing that you weren't around for the first one yeah I mean I think people just understand how hard it is to be the last team standing I mean there's there's 30 teams in this league and they're excellent the players are great the coaches are great front offices are filled with amazing people, obviously all kinds of resources from all the different ownership groups. I just think you know how hard it is. To get back and be the last team standing again is something special.

I think one of the things that's been fun for me personally and when I first came here in 2013 was right after we traded Garnett and Pierce and Jason Terry and that big deal. We weren't very good for a year but then we got progressively better. One of our goals and Danny and I and the owners all talked about it was how can we sustainably be in the mix? How can we put ourselves and give ourselves as many cracks at it? And one of the reasons why you want to do that is because you want to have a chance to be the last team standing. But also the other reason why you do it is because you want to be damn good. It's no fun to go through the process of rebuilding or building and how can you possibly do that?

I think the fun part about winning it this year is we have been in the mix and it's proved that you can be in the mix and not, you know, and still, and do so and get it done. It doesn't take away from some of those other runs, but it certainly re, um, you know, reenergizes everybody because it's, it is, you know, how hard this mountain is to climb. Did you ever, I like how you told the story about Butler, you know, like you're so close and how different you think things would be, but I'm not sure my life would be much different. I, and I'm pretty, I'm pretty damn lucky as it is. I think the reward is later on and knowing that you're not going, yeah, I had a good run but never got it done. Now that moment will never exist for you.

Well, it's funny. You say that and it's funny because when you go on runs like that, hey, if we played Duke 10 times, we may beat them a couple in that 2010 team. If we had a coach who wasn't a 33-year-old idiot, we probably we may beat them a couple like in that 2010 team. If we had a coach who wasn't a 33 year old idiot, we probably would have beat them. But the UConn game, we were on our last leg and they were a little bit better than us. And a couple of our early runs here, we were good and we were awesome to coach and we were a blast to be around, but we were ascending. We weren't quite at the point we are now, but sometimes those things become, in the moment, you realize how special those runs are. And then later on it becomes, well, those were just a couple

of more that were close. Right. And so I don't think we've ever lost too much perspective on that. I think in the last couple of years when you get to the finals, when last year, those, we knew how good we were and how much of a chance we had. And it was good to get over that, I guess over that hump is what we say. But yeah, those Butler teams are just as special to me finishing second as this team is finishing first. Wow. Okay. So basically you're telling me that the UConn final was like the 17 Eastern Conference finals

and the Duke final was like the 18 finals. I don't know. Man, I'm not saying they'd all don't hurt. I'm just saying as I look and take a long view of it all, I think you have the perspective that, hey, you gave yourself a chance, but those teams play their hearts out to get to where they were. And you can't fault them for that. So we're talking a lot of coaching here. And I remember when the transition from Ainge to you happened, you're going, okay, this guy's been incredible as a coach, but is it that he needs a different approach to life and now he's just going to be in charge

of everything and you know how it just leads into the doubts. He's a great basketball mind and maybe people on the outside are wrong for going, well, he can only do this and he can't do that other thing. What was that transition like for you? Well, I've been asked about it a lot recently. I think number one, it's so special to be a part of this organization, whether you are the head coach, whether you are in travel and equipment, whether you are sports performance or playing or analytics or whatever, it's just a special place to be. And I've never taken that

for granted. I think coming off of the bubble and then coming off of that next year where we weren't, you know, we didn't have fans and we started two months after we got back from the bubble. And you could kind of see we were all running on fumes. My son was a freshman in high school and I, you know, we weren't even allowed to go to games in Massachusetts because of the COVID rules. So I watched all of those, all of his games on streaming and just being away from them from July 1st to October and then going right back into another season. Knowing he was a freshman and my daughter was a sixth grader, you know, part of this was for me was, man,

their time is flying. And, you know, I wanted to try to make sure I was as big a part of that as possible. And as much as you try to do that in coaching or playing, that travel schedule during the season is real, right? And it is hard to find the right amount of time to be dad. That was a part of it. I thought our team, I thought I was, I thought I as a coach, whether it was that timing, whether it was just I'd been in one place for eight years as a coach, I thought I wasn't, you know, I was burned out a little bit. And then at the same time, I felt like I really knew the team. And I really love the people I work with, both players and people in the building. And so when we started talking about a replacement

for Danny when he decided to retire, you know, Wick and Danny and Pags, they all went through a few names and probably called a few people, I don't know. And then ultimately came back and said, hey, what about, you know, I had mentioned, you know, if this doesn't go, this might be something I wanna do down the road. Danny had talked to me about it. And then they came back and said, that's not a bad idea,

and let's pursue that a little bit more. And we did, and here we are. And I think the benefit for me, Ryan, is I didn't lose anybody in the front office. So this front office is very smart. They've been through a lot. They were, you know, taught by who I think's the best and Danny. And they helped me get up to speed on the things that I had to learn. And what I tried to do was bring my strength to the table. And that is just thinking about how teams function and operate.

And some of the challenges that a coach faces when constructing a team. And so hopefully, as we all bring our strengths together, we can put a team together that is, that is functional and gives ourselves a chance. Because of the coaching background, but now having a different task here, being in charge of the roster, like how do you look at rosters now? How is there a difference between when you were just trying to get wins every night? No, I, I very much go back to, I very much go back to my time at Butler because at Butler, our dream was always to get to the, we had been to a couple of sweet 16s and it was always to get to the final four, right?

And ultimately win it. And I think the way that we figured to do it was we needed four players that if they transferred in that day and age, which now it's who the hell knows, but in that day and age, that everybody in the country would want them. And then surround those four with the best role players you could find. And when you're coaching in Indianapolis and the state of Indiana, in the Midwest with all the great high school coaching and all the great kids, it's easy to find those other 10 role players. I mean, those guys are at every turn, all the shooting and all the, you know, they grew up with the game, they've been doing 6 a.m. workouts their whole life.

Like that's easy. Finding the four game changers is hard. Here you need more than four. But it's the same concept, right? Like surround your best players that everybody in the world would want on their team with guys that are perfect complements and guys, you know, a lot of times for me, that's defensive versatility and shooting. But, you know, those are hard to find. You find guys that can do both of those things. You know, there's not there's

not many teams that are going to have four or five, six, seven do both of those things. There's not many teams that are going to have four, five, six, seven, eight of those guys. Pete So, if I'm listening to you correctly, then I imagine there's a moment where you go to the staff and go, Drew, holiday's available? Drew Whoa, let's go. Pete That's basically exactly what you're talking about. Drew Yeah, no. I mean, I think the whole league knew that if Portland was to make a deal Yeah, no, I mean, I think the whole league knew that if Portland was to make a deal with Dane, that, you know, they would have to take back some significant salary. And so you can start to do the math on what that might look like, you know. And to be honest, I'd never thought it was going to be Drew. But when Drew became available, that was the kind of guy that obviously is a winning

player on every team. And even beyond that, just an amazing, and you can't, I know people say this, just an amazing person. To me, my biggest fear with Drew in getting him was the same thing I worried about with Derek. They're such conscientious, unbelievable teammates who are about all the right things that it takes transition for people like that to feel comfortable in their environment because they're thinking about everyone else.

They're thinking about the family moving, you know, the relationships they've left behind, all the important stuff that matters, all the stuff that makes them great is what they're thinking about and it makes the transition hard. And so we knew that it was gonna be like a shock to him and but man he just came in and he was, he was amazing and just amazing as a teammate, amazing as a player and, and truly played his best in the playoffs, you know, as, as he kind of navigated and figured out how our team worked, how it all functioned together, how he could best find his footing and, and how Joe wanted to do things. And he did a great job. When I look through, you know, once you take over, uh, I, I would,

you know, it's a bit of a guess. So you finally get to be the GM, right? The president of basketball operations, you're in charge of all this stuff. And it's like, okay, we're scouting and, and we're doing all these things. Sometimes I wonder if you're, your scouting staff is like, are we serious? We traded the pick again. Uh, but it was, it was bold and it's very easy for everybody after the fact to be like, oh, well everybody knew Derek white was going to be terrific.

I don't, I don't remember people understanding how special Derek white was. Cause I think you had to be paying attention to how he fit into all the different things that you're talking about, but flipping for Brogdon and then that becoming Drew, the Derek white deal, like improving just exactly that you're talking about, but flipping for Brogdon and then that becoming Drew, the Derek White deal, improving just exactly what you're talking about, that three through five, that three through six, and then Przingus and having some moves and pieces out. Was there ever a trade where you had a harder time at least getting there where I'm like, I want to do this?

Was there one that stood out for you that you felt like you had more of an internal challenge? Well, I think, I think when you look at it, we've traded number 16, um, in, in the 2021 draft, I think we traded, or maybe a 2020 draft. We traded number 25 in the draft and traded now the number 14 pick, the golden state pick that in the Drew draft. So the picks haven't been like, you know, the ones you lose sleep over are the 28 swap and the 29 pick because those are so far down the road and who knows. But I think what gives you the chance to do that is having a foundation of Jalen and Jason

who are 26 and 27 years old. And you have more, you know, you feel like that's, you know, more calculated and you know more about what you might look like down the road than you would if they were 35 and 36 years old. But I do think they were all really hard because you have to call or talk to people that you are upheaving their lives. talk to people that you are upheaving their lives. Right? So I can't tell you how hard it is, the pit in your stomach. You know that Christaps Porzingis is excellent, but you know you're losing Marcus Smart. You know Drew is excellent, but you know you're losing Malcolm and Rob. And that's hard on them. And like they played a huge role in us being here. And nobody thinks otherwise.

And so I think that that's the hard part for me. Trading, you know, like trading the 25th pick last year for the 38th pick to get a few extra seconds, who knows if that's a good move or not. But it felt like the right move to give ourselves a good player and we got a good player in Jordan Walsh and then also a chance to get some extra assets that we hopefully can use in trades to win at the margins when we have a chance to win. So that's, you know, it will make all those decisions independently, but trading people is a lot harder for me than trading picks.

And you're right to your point about where those picks are. And I remember years ago when it was either getting the information and I remember going to a wall fam workout and Zarin shows me the chart that Ainge was, he's like, Ainge wanted you to see this, cause I brought it up far too often, but just to Angel, going, you guys in the media, this cap space obsession that you have, you know, like it's stupid. And he was nice enough to spend that time with me when I was there. And then when I look and think about it, like, I'm like, I'm going to be a good, I'm going to be a good, I'm going to be a good,

I'm going to be a good, I'm going to be a good, I'm going to be a good, I'm going to be a good, I'm going to be a good, I'm going to be a good, I'm going to be a good, I'm going to be a good, I'm going to be a good, obsession that you have, you know, like it's stupid. And he was nice enough to spend that time with me when I was there. And then when I look and think of like, okay, so clearly Brad had spent hours and hours, countless hours talking to Danny about roster construction and his side of the job and how that goes together. I just feel like you deserve a lot of credit for being bold from the jump. And I don't know if people going in the direction you have career wise, it's really easy to say this after the fact. I just see a lot of people being like,

I don't really want to do too much because I opened myself up to criticism and people waiting for it. Just wondering how much age influenced the very beginning of what you were doing. Well, first of all, we wouldn't be able to do it if Danny didn't keep all of our, you know, everything stocked. Right? Like, and if Danny doesn't do the trade and get Jalen and Jason, we're not in the position we're in. Like, and so he set us up in every which way. And I don't look at it as bold at all. Like to be honest, Ryan, when I was really, I don't know if it's lucky for, it was definitely lucky for me, but I look back at it,

I was not a, I probably wasn't a very good coach when I was named a head coach at 30 years old, but having been in this now and coaching in your hometown and people ask me all the time like how much pressure was it to coach the South? I felt it just as much in my hometown at a small school in the Horizon League. It's just part of it. But having been under that lens where you're getting praise that you don't deserve and criticism you probably don't deserve for years and years and years. Just makes it like, let's just build the best team we can.

I don't really care what anybody says about it. Is it a good deal, bad deal? Is it helpful to us? Is it helpful to them? Like, you know, I don't think we've done one deal that I didn't think was really good, reasonable and smart by the other team. You know, like, and that's, and that's because we're dealing with other front offices and was really good, reasonable and smart by the other team. And that's because we're dealing with other front offices and people that are also,

they've got all the charts you saw and they've got all these other pieces of information and they're going in their own paths, but they're making those decisions that are calculated and smart. And so we were lucky that the pieces all fit together. And that that happened because, you know, we have a super unselfish team. That's the part that was so fun for me this year was just how much of a

true team we were. I want to talk about Tatum and Jaylen here, because I know, and my world's obsessed with it. I'm guilty of it too. It's like, okay, so Tatum is this and then he wins and now he's this. And you said at the very beginning, it's like, I don't really think any differently of these two guys. But watching the playoffs and going, we know what happened to the opposition in the East with injuries, but specific to how Tatum was playing, I was like, okay, he's the defensive focus. He's got the toughest assignment every time.

I think a player, even at his age with his profile, knowing what's at stake here. All right. I've got to put up these kinds of numbers, even though the shooting clearly could have been better for somebody like Tatum. I just felt like you have somebody in the finals playing basically point guard on offense and playing center on defense. What is his not just his talent. What is understanding and probably the scar tissue all the other stuff what is that allow the rest of the team to do when he takes on that kind of role.

most of this Cleveland series so we could switch. He guarded miles Turner, most of the Indiana series so we could switch. He guarded them and that's not easy. But part of that is yes, he's got good size. Yes, he's gotten stronger, but he's also super smart and he's a great communicator. And so, you always talk about your bigs, traditional bigs, being people that can kind of direct and quarterback the whole defense because they can see everything and they've got to call out coverages. Well, Tatum's capable of all that. I'll never forget the first, one of the first preseason games we were playing when he was a rookie, we were playing Charlotte and he, they ran just a traditional side pick and

roll called wedge that everybody in the league was running at the time because Tony Parker just destroyed everybody on it. Everybody copied it and put it in their playbook. He got scored on on the first time. The second time without me saying anything, he made the adjustment that we would have made in his mind. That's the stuff that people don't see, right? And, you know, when you talk about it, it's funny you say that. I read an article yesterday that talked about how rare the air was that Jayler and Jason are in because they've won a championship and what they've accomplished. It was rare a week ago. It was rare two weeks ago.

It was rare three weeks ago. Like Like Jason's had 50 in a game seven against the Sixers when they were healthy, right? He had 46 on the road in Milwaukee in a game six. When he was 19 years old, we were running every play for him in a game three on the road in Philly against the team that had won like 17 of 18 to finish the regular season and he delivered us to a three-point lead. It's just because of the world we're in that I think that those guys are going to have to navigate the scrutiny. I say this all the time about LeBron, the amount of scrutiny that they get, You know, those guys, they get the amount of scrutiny that they get, just watch them and enjoy them.

They're so unique and so special. And it's easier for me to say that because I'm here. And I guess, cause we won, but for the five people that are harsh on those guys, I think they turned the corner on Causeway the other day and probably forgot about that pretty quickly. Jaylen's development is, I think one of the most impressive single like player development things that I've ever seen because it's like, Oh wow,

it's a little bit better than I thought. Like, okay, well, I mean, how much better is he going to get in every single time? I think I've had a limitation for him. He has gone through a, what has it been like seeing it firsthand? Yeah, I think he is as good as I've ever been around at truly adopting like a mindset of, I'm always gonna try to improve.

And that was from the get go, from the first draft interview with him to the first draft workout to having a rookie year where he only played 17 or 18 minutes a game as the third pick, while other of the high picks were getting tons of stats and minutes and everything else. But we were a good team. And he just keeps getting better.

No matter what you, no matter what you throw at him, he's a worker. If he has, you know, an adverse experience, he's going to get above the mat and work. If he has a great experience, he's going to get right back at it and work. He takes everything as a challenge, and he's very prideful. Listen, both those guys are elite workers, and that's a big reason why they're where they are. But you know, I thought we were, I thought we were going to be in a pretty good place when I walked up to Jalen at breakfast a couple of weeks before the, or a couple of days before the finals.

And he told me big two weeks. I was like, all right, we're good. Like, you know, as a coach, you never feel good. But I was like, this dude's ready. Like he's come and he was, he had an amazing, he's had an amazing career. Um, so I don't want to overstate the last couple of weeks. So I didn't know Joe Masula, but I had no interaction with him. I knew of him certainly at West Virginia and I'd heard good things about him.

Um, but I was kind of joked, like I'm glad he was with Boston ahead of time. him. I knew of him certainly at West Virginia and I'd heard good things about him. But I was kind of joked like I'm glad he was with Boston ahead of time because if you didn't have anyone with any relationship with him, I don't know how that first interview would go. But the other thing when he gets named to become head coach in the aftermath of this dramatic run of change, whether it was media or friends or whatever, that it's just like, wait, this guy, they're just gonna give him this team and it's like ready to win.

And he's younger and all the doubt that comes with that that you had to face as well. And I'm thinking like, okay, I've known the ownership group for like two decades. I would say top to bottom, like whenever I've been around anyone with the Celtics, I've never been like, how does that guy have that job? Like, I'm like, there's no way that they would just go, yeah, just let Joe Missoula do it because we don't know what we're doing.

So I felt like there was some equity from the organization for those of us on the outside to trust it. But what was it about him that you knew that the rest of the other people that were there some equity from the organization for those of us on the outside to trust it. But what was it about him that you knew that the rest of the other people that the people in the hiring process understood about Missoula that maybe people without access to him did not know? I just think he has all the qualities of a really good basketball coach. He's smart. He knows the game on both ends of the floor. He can teach

it very succinctly. He can go out on the court and simplify an offensive or defensive game plan and do it in a way that is exceptionally well communicated. He is a great leader that thinks about things that matter. He talks about things that matter all the time. He has a set of action principles that he coaches too, and that he believes helps teams be the very best that they can be. And I know he does the work. There's a diligence there that is real and his motor is, I mean, I think I had that when I was 35, but I'm not sure I would have had that plus wrestling like alligators and doing whatever the LLC does. But Mike, he's a special guy.

And last year he did a great job. We won 57 games and we did so with guys missing some time and trying to navigate an unbelievably tough transition to start a new year. And so we went into the playoffs as a staff and even with the ownership group and said, listen, if we don't, you know, if this doesn't go well, right, this is going to be an easy narrative. So let's not buy into that. You know, this, this guy's special.

He didn't even get a summer to prepare for this. And, and I thought he did a good job, um, in year one, and I thought he prepared well and did another really good job in year two. The guy's just a good basketball coach. And beyond that, he's a guy that really cares about our guys and, and he can lead, he can lead a group. It's pretty special. Okay. Last thing. I remember one of the early lessons that I was taught was that even when you win, you have to come back and maybe be a little different just to get people to not feel stale,

which can be fair or not. That'll be used against you if you weren't able to repeat, which is to think of like, hey, you guys better repeat. It's just an easy thing to do. But roster wise, it's pretty much set, but how motivated are you to just, I don't know if it's greed, I don't know if it's just general concern that comes with the position that you have

of feeling like there has to be some little tweak just from an energy standpoint. Well, maybe we'll make a draft fix and that person can be a tweak. I don't know. I think that you have an opportunity to tweak and change your roster all the way up until February 10th or whatever it is. And so you don't always have to do those things in June. you don't always have to do those things in June. You don't always have to do those things in July. You have time to evaluate your team, evaluate your roster. We're going to be different right out of the gate next year, simply because

we've got guys that, like Chris Stapps after his surgery, we don't know exactly when he'll be back, but he'll probably miss at least the very start of the season. And so that'll be a great opportunity for us to do things different and have to find different solutions and those types of things that come with it. And then we'll just evaluate our team like we always do. I think you're right, Ryan, but I also think that part of the reason why that is the case that you want to tweak, that you want to do things different is because the greatest obstacle will become human nature. And we know that with all the praise that we've gotten in the last week or the next couple weeks or however long that lasts, it's all going to turn into some real, real eyes

on us and some real, real eyes on us and some real, real scrutiny. And we just kind of know that this cycle is coming. So how can we be all of the great character things that we were this year, bouncing back up off the mat with a new team and double down on that as a character trick, double down on that idea that human nature is in the way, the other 29 opponents are in the way, and we've got to be even better. When we develop, when we work out in the summer, we've got to know that's coming. When we compete for an Olympic team and we put our best foot forward with that, we've got to know that's

coming. When we get to Abu Dhabi to play Denver in the preseason game, we got to know that's coming. And, you know, I'm glad we're playing Denver. Like we got an unbelievable respect for them. And to play a couple preseason games in Abu Dhabi, I think that'll be super fun. We'll be right back at it in three months or whatever, and get a chance to like right out of the gate, be prepared. We're going to be the first game of the NDA last year, like the team that won it always is. And we're probably going to have one of the studs out East, right?

So we're not going to have time to think about how great we are. We're not going to have time to worry about the small roster tweaks that everybody wants to give us a little jolt. We're going to have to bring it. And that's the fun part about it. And that's, this team has done that all the way through. I've heard their toughness question. I've heard all that. But listen, you don't get to where these guys have taken us before this year without having some, you know, some grit and some toughness to you. Well, I know that as you've expressed with us here, like still thinking about those Butler moments and thinking about some of the other playoff stuff with the Celtics and just how driven you are. And I mean, there's probably Celtics fans listening to the end of this right

now, just getting pumped up as you're talking about the start of the next season. But a life in basketball, it's a dream job, but it's also almost like this task, this, this honor that you are in charge of for millions of fans in that part of the country. And I think everybody knew leading up to this and listening to you now that that's something you take incredibly seriously as a massive responsibility. So thanks for the time and congrats, Brad. No, I appreciate it.

And you could not be more true. I mean, you turn again, you get in that parade and you turn the corner on the causeway and you see all those people. And if you didn't know it before, you know it now. Like better not screw up the draft, right? That's what I was saying, turn that corner. There's a lot of people wearing a

lot of Celtics gear and they're moving on to next year pretty soon and we should too. Well, this class, if you whip on 30, I don't know. I'm not going to get mad at you about it. I appreciate it. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks, Brad. If you're listening to the pod, I don't talk a ton of hockey, but you know that I was locked into the Stanley Cup final and really a lot of the rounds of the playoffs. Even went to the Bruins Panthers and I saw it firsthand. I was like, man, this Panthers team seems pretty good.

And to help us break down a win for the Panthers, avoiding the three-oh blown lead to the Edmonton Oilers, this guy who I've known for a while back in our ESPN days, a big part of the hockey coverage, Sean Butcher-Gross. What's up, man? It's good to see you. Happy to be here. big part of the hockey coverage, John Butcher-Gross. What's up, man? It's good to see you. Happy to be here. Big fan of the pod. Listen on my long drives from Massachusetts to Connecticut

to do my occasional sports center. So really, really, really a big, I've learned so much sports and non-sports, more non-sports from your podcasts. You've been such a conduit to authors and other podcasts. It's really enriched my life. And I'm serious when I say that. Yeah, I kind of thought you were messing with me,

but you were so earnest about it with the closing of that sentence that I was like, maybe he's serious about this. We have a lot of authors. We've got a few banked and ready to go when I can take a little time off. So thanks for saying that. I appreciate it.

Okay, so let's talk about, there's kind of like three different things I want to do here with this story. Let's talk about the story of the actual series itself. We all know that Florida gets up 3-0 and again, just as somebody who doesn't really quite understand, I didn't feel like Florida was demonstrably the better team. I felt like there were some Edmonton turnovers that were extremely costly. I didn't think Skinner necessarily was the problem.

And then it just kind of turns. And you would think with Edmonton's talent, like it makes sense that it would turn. But how did you see the series playing out through those first six games? Yeah, Edmonton should have won game one. Absolutely the better team by far. That one will sting them for a long time. And then they should have won game three.

It was a bad six and a half minutes in the second period that lost game three, their first home game. So really they should have been up two to one. And of course at worst down two to one after three. And that changes everything. They exhausted so much energy once you're down three oh, truly back to the wall, truly life or death, fight or flight situation. And that got them an easy win. And then one more, you know, one more carry over win, and then a home win, which was easy. And then that set them up for the challenging game seven, which really does stand alone.

I think there is some momentum in hockey series. I think there's a reason why NBA, they don't come back from three. Oh, baseball only once hockey is a blood sport. And once you get moving in one direction, you emotionally can go one way for confidence and lack of confidence the other. And I think that's what happened. And that's what set them up. But game seven is such a standalone. That's why it has happened occasionally in hockey because you still have some carryover. But especially if you go back to the other team's home rink

and the team that lost three in a row is back home. That's their best chance to win. So what happened last night? Why Florida? They got whatever they did, whether or not practicing on Sunday, they got to a fresh start. And like I said, game seven's a fresh start because now the pressure is back on Edmonton. Cause if you don't finish it off, all that work meant nothing. And Conor McDavid still doesn't have a cup. And even though you're a teammate on Edmonton and you want a cup just as badly as he does,

Warren Fogel wants a cup as badly as Conor McDavid does. But because the media focuses on Conor McDavid's first cup, we assume that he wants it more than Warren Fogel, but that's not the case. But I'm sure Warren Fogel still feels that pressure of Conor McDavid winning his first cup because he's a teammate, doesn't want to let him down. He probably feels like he's part of his legacy in some way.

And so he probably felt the pressure, and all those other guys felt the pressure. So there was definitely some early tension from the Oilers. I thought, funny, I was on the, I did an ESPN radio hit the day of the game, and I go, I just think the Panthers are going to get an early power play. I thought they're going to put Montour back on the power play

and he might score that goal. They kept Larson on the power play. They didn't score in the power play, but they scored soon after. And that's what a power play can do, any power play in any game with a regular season. The puck stays in the zone. So even though it becomes five on five, it's still like an extra credit extended power play time. And then they score. They get that deflected goal, amazing goal. And now all the pressure is off them. Their first lead since game three. Now the entire atmosphere is different. That initial standalone game seven I talked about was already there. Then they have a lead on a really awesome goal that probably felt like, oh, maybe this is our night goal. Like one of those kinds of goals. And then they just kind

of carry that throughout it. Edmonton was slogging uphill really the rest of the way. Okay. So from that point on though, as Edmonton ties it up and if I'm just watching and going, okay, who seems in control? There's probably a 10 minute stretch there at the start of the second period where it looks like Edmonton's running a basketball three man weave and they're just cycling and cycling and they look like they're completely in control of the ice tilted to their end.

And yet you're waiting for this moment. And I imagine that playoff hockey, like you start realizing in front of the net, like everybody's just kind of condensed and they're not taking as many chances and all the shots that you think are there. Then when you see Bouchard get ready and you're like, how come he's not shooting or how come McDavid spinning away and not like these guys realize there's no lane right now. There's no lane. So they're in control of the puck and it could probably be frustrating to some people. I can't, you just get the puck on the net. And I wonder what that is.

Is it, Hey, you can't be this cute or they're trying to find a much better opportunity instead of just flinging it towards four bodies, knowing it's never going to get through anyway. Yeah. It's the great mystery of hockey. why some games there's room and some games there isn't. Now obviously, and I talked about it earlier that same day as well, I pictured game sevens and why they're usually the under is because they are like a wet football game, a muddy football game.

It's a slog. And that's the metaphor that I use for a game seven Stanley Cup final game is that it's a slog. And that's that's the metaphor that I use for a game seven, Stanley Cup final game is that it's a slog. The officials do let a few of the hook and holds go a little bit, nothing egregious. And yeah, and the players for some reason are so focused defensively staying in front of their man using any adrenaline that they have to stay in front of their man. It's a six goalie game at that point. And it really was a six goalie game, you know, both teams, all five guys trying to play street hockey goalie and then the one goalie, the actual

goalie in the net. And yeah, there just wasn't a lane there. Maybe once in a while, bounce it towards the net. Probably. But when you're that good too, and you know, you're one backdoor pass to, to, to dry side or Zach Hyman for that tap in goal that's such a high percentage slam dunk kind of field goal percentage shot. They just kept looking for that and looking for that. And even though you mentioned they had the puck a lot and they were kind of sweet Georgia Browning it, they didn't quite have that great day where they had any kind of space where you could really lean in and rip one or have Bob one on one.

It just didn't quite happen. The man on man defense of the Panthers was just unbelievable. They just found their game that way and they made it a slog, which they had to do. And like I said, Edmonton, the regrets from game one and three eventually is gonna catch up with you. Again, they still might've got a bounce in at the end of regulation and then take it to overtime

and win, but again, that's a fine line and you're playing with fire once you let it get to that point. Reinhardt on the game winner to make it 2-1, which ultimately was the game winner. Does the defense been pinching towards the center too much on that? Absolutely, especially a right-handed shot.

He's gotta realize that he's gotta come over a little bit, force the shooter to make a pass, try to block the pass and disrupt him a little bit more. You can't give a guy with momentum like that to shoot a 15 footer and that was the difference. Reinhardt, free agent to be this summer, amazing year. Good for him, the cap office, amazing year to get that goal. A special season, sometimes guys in a special regular season, it carries over and it did for him. Okay, let's talk the story of the Panthers

because this is a team that the hockey world has made fun of for a long time, which it deserved to be made fun of. I was looking up some numbers this morning. In 2006, their average not paid tickets, the average number of free tickets per game was 4,100 per game. They had a deal where if you had a Florida license,

it was called the first-timer program, where you just get free tickets to the games if you had a Florida license. When LeBron went to the Heat in 2010, they had $6 tickets to games in the upper deck. Wayne Huizenga sold this team in 2013, and he's somebody who wanted to pull the Charlotte Bobcats move, sort of, and wanted to name them the Florida blockbusters after the video chain empire.

So, um, we know that it was a, what, two and a half decade run without playoff wins, they get all the way there last year, come up short, of course, in the end of the final and then win this. What, what does this mean for a franchise that people have, I would say probably want and go back for the last 20 years I remember I went to a game about about 2014 took my parents over There were down in Naples. So we drove over alligator alley and we get to the game at that time I was driving a Lexus es 300 shot out Hoffman I was driving a Lexus ES300, shout out Hoffman Lexus of Hartford, Connecticut. And I got a great deal on it, the Pebble Beach model.

And I pull in to pay for my parking. I pull in for my parking and they go, hey, oh, your parking's free. I go, what? Yeah, Lexus is kind of one of our sponsors. So if you're in a Lexus, you get free parking, which is kind of funny as it is. That alone is funny. But the guy in the Pinto is paying for parking, but the guy in the Lexus, you don't have to pay.

So I go back this year, take my son over, he's living down in Florida, and it costs us $75 to park. So it's like, that tells you how much it's turned in Florida. And yeah, they had embarrassing lower bowl highlights on Sports Center when there's 48 people there. And we even saw it in game seven. A lot of those fans sold their tickets,

probably pays for their season ticket next year by selling their game seven tickets to Edmonton Oilers fans. The lower bowl was heavy, Edmonton Oilers in game seven. And so a lot of people probably think let's cash out. And a lot of all teams, a lot of fans will do that. They might go to half or they might just it's too high a figure they can't pass it up and they'll watch it on TV so and that happened so yeah it's

come a long way really good ownership now from top to bottom the way they market down there still not a great location perhaps it's basically in a mall right right off the sawgrass and I don't know if it's ever gonna really stick, but they're gonna be good for another five, seven years. So certainly this is the time that it's gonna work. It's gonna be now. Bill Zito, the man in charge, because you look at the coaching changes,

younger players not working out, but then it looks like, okay, they get Babowski in on the big free agent signing. And I know Zito wasn't there for all of these things, but as a former agent, now team executive, what did you see from him in this roster construction to get to the point of the last two years? Yeah, he built his own agency. And of course, he was really grinding for an NHL job for a long time. He was working close with Blake Jeffery on the great college

player at Wisconsin, Hobie Baker winner. And one of their first moves they did when they were hired, because Blake was with them at the time he he's not anymore. But they went out and got Patrick Hornquist. And he's one of those guys that will, you know, eat pucks, practice all day. He used to practice in Nashville for Pekka Rinne, trying to distract him. And these guys are Shay Weber shooting slap shots at his face. This is practice. And he's trying to, you know, getting away in the spleen screen and tip taking a beating. And that's the kind of that's what they kind of wanted to establish. You're right.

They already had Barkov, which was a great sign. Most people didn't think they would draft him originally. They didn't have him second overall, but they identified him. Again, that's the previous regime. Yeah, they probably overpaid Bobrovsky. That was a laughable contract that everybody made fun of. But of course, Zito's grand move was obviously getting Matthew Kachuck. I mean, that that changed everything when they were able to identify a

young player who didn't want to be there anymore, just like Jack Eichel, kind of interesting back to back years, a young Americans, everything hit what how his dad has raised his sons and, and, and really instructed them and the knowledge and the guts of the game is one of the most remarkable sports stories, I think in all of sports, but especially hockey. Those boys are perfect. They do everything right.

Brady's good. And I'm sure the next move now is get Brady to America somewhere out of Ottawa. I guarantee they're already thinking, how can they do that? Just like when Matthew was in Calgary, where and how can we get Matthew to the States and be in a position to win the cup? I guarantee you their next step now is now it's Brady's turn.

How do we make this happen? As if last night wasn't tough enough for the Canadian listeners hearing that stuff. So I always like looking at things and going, okay, because something is happening. Does it mean something's actually happening? Right. And so this, this cup drought continues for Canada all the way back to my guy, LeClair with Canadians and like, look, a puck bounces the other way.

Reiner doesn't score, you know, who knows? And then it means like it's all over. But, but is this, is there a reason this drought, is there anything to this because it still feels like there could have been all these other moments where the drought would just be over and we wouldn't have these grand theories of why we're on three decades of this. Yeah, Johnny Vermont.

Well, certainly, you know, in the nineties, we had the real weak Canadian dollars. So teams are really struggling. They're in a tough situation. Eventually we're paying all the players in US funds. Um, and even last night, you have a heavily tax, you know, Canadian situation against a tax free state. It's just, you know, the way that Florida is able to get guys to take a little bit less because of

the tax savings. And now I mean, the new, the new practice rank is right in Fort Lauderdale. These guys can go to practice and they're flip flops and golf carts. It's gonna be a free agent destination. They're gonna be good for a long time. Edmonton is the most northern city in the NHL. You can't get free agents to go there. If you do, you overpay to keep them there.

Girlfriends don't wanna go there. Wives don't wanna live there. And so it just makes it really tough from a climate perspective. Now, Toronto certainly is a great cause for a politics city, shouldn't be a problem. They just, and they've had great teams and they just haven't been able to get over the hump.

But the other markets, it is challenging to get free agents. But I do think it's somewhat cyclical. Vancouver's coming, Montreal's coming. Edmonton's still gonna be a player for the next three to four years. Calgary's in a rebuild. And Toronto, they're still kind of there. So they are set up now, I think, to where this next run, you could, they have a legitimate chance here. But again, we'll see, will these free agents go there? Will they play there? Or will they, as these warm climate American cities with great tax situations continue to improve and now have winning teams, winning programs?

I mean, the benefit side by side, it's pretty obvious to a lot of young 26, 27, 28 year old men. I want to finish with McDavid. So I'm not going with dry saddle before McDavid because of priority. I just think it's a better place to finish. But as much as I love watching McDavid just skate, McDavid had, I was sitting next to a former NHL guy last night watching the game. McDavid had a play on the right side, I think in the third period where he basically kind of skated, jumped backwards while two guys whiffed on him.

And it's those little moments that lead to nothing. I mean, it may have led to an opportunity, but that particular point, nothing happened, but it was just like, my buddy just yells out gross that anybody could even physically do these things. So there's a visual joy to McDavid that is really in like the rarefied air. I think of like prime Pedro of just going, I can't believe he's in a league with all of these other guys making him a Randy Moss, you know, early Randy Moss, who just like, just think all of these stud NFL defensive backs and he makes him look this stupid. So even if McDavid isn't necessarily scoring, but like the point is zero points now in game six or seven for him.

point is zero points now in game six or seven for him, but Dry Cytle, who has, I think the third most playoff points at 16, 17 in the league, the visual joy that I get out of watching him is these just passes that it feels like nobody else really sees and the way he sets up other people on top of all of the scoring and for him to go through this massive drought, zero goals the last nine playoff games, was there something in particular about him that you saw that felt different to lead to that kind of lack of production? Yeah, the only thing I can think of is just a lack of energy

on how much they played the last few years and how much ice time they have and playing for the last nine months. Maybe it just took a little edge off their game, a little love away from the game that it became really tiresome and cumbersome and just so monotonous almost. Even though the stakes are so big and it is so exciting at times, but it was probably almost that numb feeling sometimes athletes get at every level, whether they're high school all the way to the professional.

Sometimes there's like a numb ringing in your head where you're at the free throw line, you can't even hit it between the rim. It's like, you just lose your touch for a day or two. And it just seemed like those guys were just exhausted from the battle and from the wear and tear and fighting back during the regular season. Remember, they had a bad start. So when you fight back to get in, that takes a toll.

This all takes a toll. Florida didn't have that toll really all year and they kind of just had a nice little simmering cruise down the highway at 80 miles an hour. Just kind of where, you know, Evans is going 45 in traffic and they're going 110 for a couple of months and then they're back down to 50 and now they're cruising for a while. And so I just think both those guys had a wear and tear because it does not explain, like you said, that lack of production.

If McDavid were in the NBA today would be the worst, the week would be the worst. How is he treated in NHL circles, considering his greatness, the talent that is so obvious, and yet this disappointing end to what would have been a historic comeback? Yeah, this is a big hit. I mean, this is a big hit to go pointless in games six and seven. Yeah, you're right. That's the thing about him. A lot of hockey players, you need to know the game or the subtleties to appreciate them, but he's Barry Sanders meets Brian Boitano meets Randy Moss. Like you said, just different. You can see it, you don't have to know hockey to say, well, that's the best guy and that's rare for hockey.

Because the fastest guy isn't always the best guy. Warren Fogel looks like Conor McDavid out there sometimes, but Conor McDavid passes like he's Adam Oates, but he skates like he's Pavel Beray. Like that's a combination we've never seen in the league before. And that's, and so, and you're right. And for him to go pointless in six and seven,

that's just, it's a bad look. I know hockey's a different sport, it's low scoring, and you're not gonna get a lot of chances, but still, he's gonna take a big hit even in Canada. And although from a story perspective, you're right, it's probably the best ending to get Florida their first cup and to continue this A-Rod, LeBron, and then hockey, Steve Iserman search for the first cup.

Pete The last thing I would say, McDavid, because I like, maybe I'm just more comfortable with the basketball analogies, but the basketball star that is tasked with this kind of responsibility, like we can see them actually take the shots and make or miss them. Pete Yep. Pete Especially in those last couple minutes, those last few possessions where these legacies are decided. And when you're watching McDavid, I think if you're casual about it, you're like, well, why can't you just do these things? And you're like, well, those opportunities are not there

unless there's something that I'm not seeing. Like would first take NHL, say he just needs to shoot more? Like what is fair about his approach to these last couple of games or fairness actually, in fact, being incredibly fair, realizing, hey, it's not like he doesn't understand what he's supposed to be doing, it's just the opportunities do not present themselves. No, for sure, no, but yeah,

I think the shooting more was a fair criticism. Some people said he was hurt, and whether it's a wrist or an oblique, but when he did shoot, it looked pretty hard to me. And we only need four shots a game. That's a lot of shots for him, four shots. Now I know attempted shots is a little bit higher number, but he only had eight goals in the postseason.

And goals are the most important stat in hockey. You have to score goals. And I know during the regular season, I think he got caught up in the 100 assist thing. So he was passing everywhere, like a basketball player passing to get the triple double. I think he was passing to get 100 assists because, you know, it's just has been done so few times. And that kind of carried over to the playoffs a little bit where, you know, Zach Hyman had a career year. It worked all year long and dry saddle on the backside for the one timer

and Bouchard downhill from the point that all worked. But I really do think he needed to attack the middle and attack and shoot those wrist shots high on Bob, get rebounds. And I do think, although I do really think last night at the end, he did really try to exert himself and try to find any way possible to tie that game. But again, he's worn down after a long season. This team that has six goalies out there and they've defended very, very well last night. They really did. Edmonton needed that game to be at home last night as it turned out.

They used so much energy first in game four to prevent the sweep, fly down to Florida. And then game six, you knew they were gonna win that one. And I, cause I use the analogy of the 86 ALCS when the Red Sox were down three one and they came back and they won that game with a Dave Henderson home run. You knew when they came back to Boston, that was over. The momentum was going to carry.

They would win those two games easily and they did because it was Fenway park. Just like Edmonton would have been that special kind of place that would have carried them to another game seven win if there was a two, three, two format in the NHL, which probably shows how unfair that is. That's that shows how unfair the two, three, two format is, right? Because Edmonton wins those last two games at home, no doubt. And Florida is awarded game seven with their regular season and that to me was the difference. Yeah it was awesome. I hope there's a bump. I hope there's some kind of carryover for this because I think you guys are all

great on the hockey coverage and I love the sport. I just don't necessarily always have the time but let's do a preview. Alright so we'll write it down in pen. You and I will do an NHL preview before next season alright. It's gonna be here quick. I appreciate you Ryan. Alright thanks Bucci. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.

The email address is lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. We have Steve, we have Kyle in more St. John's gear, which we'd love to see. He got his big band. We're, we're complete team now. I know. Huh? Can you even pronounce that guy's name? Yeah.

Ruben Prey. Nice work. Wow. Nice work. Six 10 Portuguese. Yeah. There was a year there with, with Mully where it was literally a Benetton ad of players, this is pre Kyle.

I was just like, wait, who's this guy? Um, but that's look St. John's is a national, it's not an ad, it's a worldwide brand. So very excited about the Johnnys this year. Okay. Um, let's get to it. We all have a smile on our face because I'm excited about this first one.

The title is quote, "'I Won't Be Alphard Like That In My Own Home.'" So let's dig in. Hi guys, love the pod. Have a question that I think the group can help with. A friend had a few couples over at his house for dinner last weekend. After we had been there about a half hour, one of the guys got up without saying

anything, turned the thermostat from mid seventies, it was a bit toasty, down to mid sixties, Josh, I guess we're just going to say the guy's name, whose house it was absolutely went off on him. It was screaming about how weird and inappropriate it was for someone is direct quote to quote, fuck with another man's thermostat. And later said directly to me that he quote, won't be outfitted like that in my own home. Yesterday, I just was just saying his name here.

Josh asked me if I think he overreacted and I had no idea what to say. He wanted to make sure the other friend knew how inappropriate it was, but I can't stop laughing at it. Is it a big deal to adjust someone's thermostat? Is that something that warrants an apology? So kind of two pronged here gang. Ha, mid seventies. Let's just say for the record, mid seventies is toasty.

Yeah, that's. You could have said something first, you know, instead of just, it is an alpha move to go up there and just in front of everybody and just turn the dial. Um, I will say if you did this in my dad's house, Joe sorority would not allow that. Uh, he's a very strict, like I think the dad's like, I'm a dad now, but I don't really feel this way. They're very strict on the thermostat. Like we're talking like lock boxes on those things at times. So I think they have. But yeah, mid set, I think you could have just said something. I could have said something first, but it is kind of funny. I'm actually good for you for the email or sake. I'm glad it happened.

Yeah, I think your dad would have said it in a cooler way than you don't. I won't be out for like that. I mean, that's the part that everyone remembers. It's not that he got up and just did it. Do I think he overreacted? Yes. But when you put it like that, it sounds like it's in some sort of like rule book

that everyone gets that I didn't get. Like, you don't turn, you know, it's like you don't reach into another man's fridge. You don't fuck with another man's thermostat. You don't touch another man's wife. That's right up there with it, yeah. Yeah, it's like one of those commandments. But I think, like I do this, when I go to my grandma's house, I just go right to the thermostat and put it how I like. I'm not proud with it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like one of those commandments. But I think like I do this when I go to my grandma's house, I just go right to the thermostat and put it

how I like. I'm not proud of it. I didn't expect to be sharing that with you guys today, but she likes a toasty and I just won't have it. That's different. Women like a toasty. This isn't breaking news. Yeah. So I just go and I pop it down to like 68, 69. It's usually up around 75. So yeah, do I think it's an overreaction? Yes, but it sounds like this guy has really strong feelings to where it's like in his core principles. And now you can just laugh at being alpha in his own house and that's maybe he'll learn

to make a big deal out of this. He won't beat Kyle. Yeah, I mean what's, so the alpha move is not to be a man to have your thermostat set at 75. Okay. Unless you have some circulatory issues. Um, but I think there's a lot of married men listening to this right now being like, if that's the case, then I've been alpha to every day of my life since I

got married because once again, men are from Mars, you know, that book, uh, that my roommate in college gave to a girl to read while she was staying with me for a week in college, which was one of the worst moves of all time because then she just read chapters and asked me questions and I was like, dude, I'm, I didn't know this at the time, but I just want to be like, I'm 21. I'm a fucking moron. Okay. So stop asking me about what any of this stuff means. Wait, your buddy gave your, the girl you were seeing that book at the time. Sounds like, that sounds like you kind of got Alfred of got out there. What is that book? Oh yeah, Kyle, this was a big deal. This book was a big deal. Is it like the game, but for women

or something or what? No, it's just men are for Mars, women are for Venus. And it was a huge deal in the nineties and everybody kind of felt like now we're all going to get along better because we can understand each other. That did not happen, I don't believe. Yeah. Okay. Still figuring it out. Yeah. So I don't know, for whatever reason, why my college roommate was reading that while

we were seniors in college is his own weird story now that I think about it. I think he'd gone through a bad breakup and then was trying to figure it out while he also went up on an epic tear because he had been the good guy of the group with a serious girlfriend that he cared a lot about. And that went on for like three years. And then once he became a senior and got dumped, he was just completely unleashed. But for whatever reason, he was also reading this book, which somebody else had to have given him. And then this girl that was visiting me that I was dating, she just didn't have anything to do because she's in a house like six idiots.

And my friend was like, oh, you should check out this book. If you're bored today while Ryan probably doesn't go to class anyway. And so then she would read parts of the book and then ask me questions about like where my head was at with certain things each and every fucking night. And I went to them. I was like, what are you doing? He's like, I don't know. She was bored.

I was like, well, guess what? She's not bored now. Can you give her like a chicken soup for the soul book? Come on, something a little lighter. Yeah. How to tell he doesn't like you. This is a good book. So anyway, the thermostat issue in itself. I think there are things that are line crossers, and I think this is a line crosser and I kind of like it. I think the guy who turns the thermostat down just completely unprompted 30 minutes into being at somebody's house, like how close friends are they? Think you better be pretty close friends. I also don't know if it's an alpha move to do that or is it a, is it being a little only childish perhaps? Totally narcissistic. you just like I double dip and then in the case

so like he bites a piece of the chip and then dips it back in that guy's he's a little entitled you know that guy doesn't think about that guy right it wasn't an alpha move like I'm doing this because I need to take a stand he's just like I'm doing it because it's what I want to do I always do what I want to do right that's more yeah it feels because I think most of us would just sit in uncomfort or maybe if you were friendly enough with the person, you may go like, Hey, what are we doing here? Just that simple, what are we doing?

Or like, Hey, you know, Phoenix. Yeah. Just have a little fun with it. You got to warm up instead of just standing up at another guy's house and turning down his thermostat being like, this is the temperature I desire. So I think that's a pretty bold almost slash asshole type move. I think there are other things that are in this category. I didn't like when somebody messed with my radio, although there were times

somebody needed to turn my radio down. I'll give you a perfect example. Post college still in goon phase. We were playing in a charity golf tournament. I think we were all like 23. We had to get from downtown Boston out to like west of 128 and we didn't have enough cars. Nobody was going to organize taxis, free obviously ride service. And so juveniles ha had just come out. I of course had the CD and said,

load up in the monster truck. I can take a ton of you guys. Guys got in the back of the truck and then a guy who at that point we didn't like each other and I cranked up ha as we pulled out of Boston and everybody was loving it except for him and he turned off my radio Not down off Haven't talked since So Rudy No, I'm trying to think of I had a buddy in college who we were going, we were making

a taco bell run and they got into some sort of like argument on the way there. And the guy driving was like, well, if you don't believe, I forget what the argument was about, but he was like, you can just get out of my car right now. So the guy got out of the car, walked back to our apartment and then took his mattress and put it outside. We came back, he's sitting there in the dark with the guys mattress on the outside and so sometimes I don't know I the moral of the story is man. Sometimes you just don't you know, it's people gonna do what they're gonna do You know that you got maybe this guy was a wild card. I don't know things happen

Like we said, this was what 20 year old 20 year old 20 something like that I got this fight doesn't happen your 30s, but fresh out of college Maybe you guys are still feeling a little bit fresh like I I wouldn't say I would have, something like that. Like this probably doesn't happen in your 30s, but fresh out of college, maybe you guys are still feeling a little bit fresh. Like I wouldn't say I would have done something like this, but I would have certainly said something if it was hot. Mattress outside, that's inconvenient. That's really, it's not just like you go pick up your laptop and bring it in, you're like,

would you guys help me with this? So what happened after that? It was, the other guys' mattress? Yep, yep, we had to help them put the mattress back in They didn't use a mattress bag No sheets and all sheets and all Smudges yeah But they didn't fight the guy just had mattresses delivered. I was kind of like so what do we do? We just had a ruin one side of it when we bring these in

He just had the rage strength. He was so mad that he just ripped a full sized mattress out the door by himself. Didn't even need movers. The guy that turned my radio off, he also used to go to McDonald's by himself. Sit at McDonald's or just go and pick it up? No, it'd be like six guys sitting around. He would just leave, go to McDonald's, then sneak up the stairs and go in his room and eat it.

Instead of being like, hey, does anyone wanna go for a ride and get McDonald's with me? I'm like, no. I'm not going to do that. Maybe he was ashamed. Nope. I don't know. When you're one of the two car guys in the group and there's like 10 dudes, sometimes

you're like, I got to get out of here. And I'm not telling anywhere where I'm going because someone's got to go to the fucking drug store and then someone's got to go here. And I'll admit to sneaking off once or twice, but it wasn't like just for food. Someone's gotta go to the fucking drug store and then someone's gotta go here and, I'll admit to sneaking off once or twice, but it wasn't like just for food. Yeah, right. I mean, you had deals going down, so. Business, yeah.

Selling knives used, you can't have other guys there. Like you said you were showing up alone. I told you no other people. Gotta meet some dudes from the Mohawk tribe, get a good deal on some brave cigarettes. You said you no other people. Got to meet some dudes from the Mohawk tribe, get a good deal on some brave cigarettes. You said you'd come alone. Okay, okay. I think we covered,

God, that's just so good. It's so good. The headline alone. Um, this is sorry. Well, I don't know if that one's as important. It's sort of a general observation, but it may be helpful. We have time. All right.

Uh, Hey guys, it's a long time. First time, not a gym guy now washed up in high school, uh, washed up high school athlete. Okay. Washed up in high school very early completion. Yeah. Baby Hercules. I was done sophomore year. I watched it in high school with you very early in completion. Yeah. I was done

sophomore year. I peaked in fifth grade. Surti, you got excited. I see those Instagram, like they're not Instagram posts, but it's like they want you to click on it so that you, I think it's Twitter actually. They're like, remember baby Hercules? See where he is now. You'll be shocked. That guy picked in high school. It sounds like, yeah. He always had car keys, like an eighth grade. Like, what the fuck is going on there? Um, that would be an interesting show to find people. Just maybe that's the entire show documentary.

I mean, Netflix would probably say yes to it. Like I peaked in fifth grade. I was the one kid who could do a backflip. Yeah. I mean, it would suck because I don't know that any studio or network would pick up something without any stars involved whatsoever, but that's kind of the whole point. By definition, there's no stars.

Yeah, but you see like Nick Lashada hosted, dude, done, somebody like, you know, that's what you do. Here, Terry Crews, I watched a clip on X the other day where I don't know what the person on America's Got Talent was doing. It was maybe some sort of magic trick. And I'll admit every now and then I can fall for a magic trick.

And- Was it the girl that changed clothes like 90 times? It might've been that one because that one was in the mix lately. Terry was into that. Yeah, so it was just so funny the way those shows are edited because it's like, all right, we've got the judges.

We've got crowd shots. We have the actual performer with this. And then somebody's just in the director's room, the control room going like, get to Terry Cruz, get to Terry Cruz. And they have the camera like right over his left shoulder and Terry Cruz turns to it's like, Whoa. And that's it. He's doing like the cheeseburger Eddie dance from longest yard.

Yeah. And I'm just thinking like, what a great gig. That's seven figures. Yeah. Like, hey, Terry, can we just cut away to like mid action and just give us like a whoa. And he's like, yeah, I can do that. Can you do like, let's film 40 of them. I'll change my blazer and then you can just cut them in.

I don't even have to show up. Okay. All right. So this guy's not washed up in high school, but he washed up high school athletes. So no recent numbers to share. I am the guy my friends call when they need help moving mattresses. Hey, there you go.

No guy. This guy, Malay. Yeah, I know we didn't even do this on purpose. NBA compass, Boris DL because everybody. Big man who isn't afraid of running a little offensive volume shooter who isn't afraid to shoot it through a slump. All right, we have a large friend group left over

from college and now live in a mid large southern city. All right, so I think the parentheses mean to leave these things out. Thank you for these sort of figuring. I guess I'm thanking myself for figuring out the stupid part. For the most part, all of us have coupled up are in our mid twenties. Most of us are married, engaged in serious relationships, flanked by a couple

of single guys to keep the group interesting. We're a tight knit group who meet for happy hour every Friday at the same place for years. What a goal. This guy's, you know, be psyched about that, man. I got to made I'm jealous. Yeah. Yeah, seriously. All right.

So I think it's a Southern thing too. I do think this Southern thing is like, let's get together and have some old fashions. So those guys wives are like when, you know, Carol's trying to set up a dinner is like, well, you know, Fridays, he can't do Fridays because he drinks with his buddies. I just can't imagine my wife saying that to her friends. Like, well, you know, he can't, he needs his Friday. Like, well, you know, he can't, he needs his Fridays,

but you know, I guess maybe it's a regional thing. Probably tough to get the Fridays and Tuesdays. Right? Yeah, you're right. It seems, I would say based on some of the intel we get, that it's not like you're not allowed to do anything. Fair? Oh, a hundred percent fair.

But I'd usually try to do it while she's working. Okay. It sounds good. Earlier this summer, we went on my bachelor's trip with the exception of one core guy who had an immovable conflict. Let's call him Mac, not his real name. The trip was lighthearted, golf, drinking,

hanging out at the lake, just a great group of guys hanging out. Little did I know that two of the guys decided to spice up the final night. I guess you could say no, with the help of some exotic dancers. The girls aren't really my thing, but I was a good sport, and a good time was had by all. Nothing crazy happened, just dances and games.

Nothing sketchy. Games. What kind of games? Shoots and ladders. All right, so. Yeah. Yeah. Prisque. God damn it's rude. It's a bunch of games. What kind of games?

Shoots and ladders. All right. So, yeah. Yeah. Damn it's rude. This is where the problem comes in. Mack was catching up with one of the guys who went on the trip over the phone and obviously wanted a recap of the weekend.

We all can call this guy Tom, all the guys who were on the trip and agreed not to discuss the night's, the last night's extracurricular activities due to the closeness of all of our significant others and the obvious what happens on a bachelor trip stays on a bachelor trip. Is that true guys? I think only being on one of those being my own, I think I understood that fully without having to be explicitly told. Well, Surti, where did you go? I forget. Did you go off for something? No, we went middle of nowhere, middle of nowhere, main mill and ocket. It was awesome on a lake. Nothing crazy really happened. But I will say,

you know, I've, I've told the story of my first ever, I think bachelor party was my one of my best buddies. First of us to get married. That was when one of our other buddies lost $22,000. That story was told over and over again. So that that did not stay in Vegas or at the best. Yeah, that's too good of a story. So Tom spilled the beans to Mac. I don't know if I like the fake name Mac. I think Mac makes it to the splash from hearty no matter what. But I just keep thinking of it's always sunny too. Yeah. Yeah, right. Mac shows up. Mac doesn't have other things, but let's keep it. So Mac who can't go talks to Tom who was there. Tom tells Mac, Mac not being able to help himself,

told his wife for background, Mac has a history of not being able to keep a secret and being a gossip whenever he has a juicy scoop, it gets better. All of our certificate and others were meeting for their monthly book club, it's a tight knit community, at which they seldom discuss literature. Uh-oh, Uh-oh. Uh-oh.

Two nights after we get back from the trip, Mac's wife proceeds to tell all of the other girls what Mac told her about the exact answers. Needless to say, some of them didn't care and some of them cared very, very much. So now we have a friend group where the guys are in very stages of the doghouse. Mac and Tom are both core guys. I've decided that I'm disappointed in Tom for the lapse in judgment to tell Mac anything, and I'm angry at Mac for lacking any self-control whatsoever, but we need a ruling from the group. How should we handle Mac moving forward?

One, should we ice Mac out and exclude him from all group activities for a while? If so, how long? Two, who is more at fault? Mac for telling his wife or Tom who told Mac? Number three, what would you all do in this situation? Okay, well, one of the core beliefs of the group is that we should be able to do things Who is more at fault? Mac for telling his wife or Tom who told Mac number three, what would you all do in this situation? Okay. Well, um, one of the core beliefs of my political party is that we need to.

Not like change our mind on who to blame, who fucked up the most like, Hey, here's the person that we can blame the most, like the person whose car is broken into and the first thing of somebody saying, well, why did you park there? You're like, okay, well, we have no, we have no room for you in my party. So what I would say here is that clearly Tom screwed up, but Max screwed up the most and I know that there'll be responses that'll say, well, Tom should have known. No Mac told his wife, Tom told a dude. Case closed.

Yeah, I was thinking it's jokes forever. That's my go-to, but I think maybe this calls for like a fantasy football last place style punishment for our boy Mac. I think that's what it is. Like we're not ready until you atone. And we put our heads together. He's gotta hang out in Arby's for 24 hours?

No, I think it's gotta be a little shittier than that. I don't know what it is. It's pretty shitty. It is pretty shitty, but I mean. Not really, Arby's is amazing. Sure, they have the meats. The Hollywood one just closed. I mean, rest in peace.

Yeah, Arby's is great for the record. Yeah, I think maybe you can put your heads together and figure out some sort of atonement. You'll probably feel better about that. You don't want to lose a dude for this, but you do want him to know that he fucked up and you maybe need him to feel it a little bit. I think that's better than just relentlessly joking about any time anyone has any news. Like, well, you better not tell Mac because I don't know, that'll probably roll off his

back. But you guys can all remember that one time when whatever is the way that he was talking about this is Mac. Mac seems like the kind of guy that does this more often though. So maybe, I mean, we maybe that's what they said. Yeah. Blame. Yeah. So I guess, I mean, sure. Be mad at Tom, but Max, the one that screwed up. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think you just got to kind of rag on them for a while. I don't know that there's any like formal punishment, but I think it just like, he needs to be ridiculed

for months and just like, this is your fault, dude. I think he's out on Fridays until he pays. Oh man, that's pretty serious. Think if you wanna come to Fridays, here's what we need you to do. Well, the question I'd always ask is like, how cool is Mac in the group? Like this is a massive flaw.

I hate this, I hate this in the alignment of dudes where Every friend group kind of has the guy that just thinks it's so cool, especially like you think back when you're younger So this is wives and fiancees on the table here, but just the guy that will Make the other guys look bad to gain some kind of trust with the females because he doesn't have any other fucking moves. Yeah, I hate this guy. That's usually like a single guy.

Yeah, right. It's weird. Yeah. But I feel like there is some kind of code there, especially, like just it's not everybody's going to love this. Like, hey, you got dancers, there's going to be all these follow-up questions and Hey, like there's probably one male group in this friend group now that is going to have this every other, that every time this guy goes on a trip, like the next eight years, she's going to be saying, Oh, are there fucking dancers there?

Well, whatever you told me. Yeah. It's just, it leads to all this stuff. Let me see your DMS right now, because maybe she has stuff from her past where she's like, oh my God. And it's always kind of funny too, when you'll have like a moment if you're seeing somebody and then it's like, oh, this whole time

you were right in front of me and then I didn't even realize like who you were. And it's like, no, we're just, things aren't working out. Now you're trying to pretend like I'm a completely different person and all this other shit. Anyway, this is starting to sound a little too specific. Anyway, so moving on.

Yeah, yeah. Climbing out of this hole. So I think there's a two tier punishment thing here, but if Mac is cool, if Mac or Tom are really cool, guess what they get to do? They get to get away with it more than the other guys in the friend group that maybe aren't as cool or aren't as well liked

or aren't the other guys in the pecking order of all the dudes, like who do you like the most? Who does everybody look up to the most? Who's the one that comes to the door? He's showing up that gets everybody the most excited. And then there are kind of the replaceable people in that group, which may seem like unfair, but that's just the way of the world. And it's how much you're going to get away with it based on your approval rating versus how much another person is going to get away with it based on a much lower approval rating. It can be the exact same act and somebody can be just worse at it, but there's certain people in your male friend groups that get away with tons of shit where other guys, it's

like, why is this person being held to a completely different standard? I think the best move would be to have another awesome weekend planned at some point and just not invite them. Tell them and just not invite him. Tell him, but not invite him. But the problem is if Mac's the coolest guy in the group, then maybe you won't want to do it. Sounds like he had a great time without Mac though. He can't even be on the podium of the coolest guys because that's a huge flaw right there.

Like if you can't be trusted with any sort of sensitive information, there's no way you're even getting bronze. What if he's cool in every other facet of being a guy though? How could you be? How could you be? What if he's like huge arms, pretty good on his feet, lateral quickness? Maybe you could start to tell you who would love that. Rick Petito. Nice.

Deep cut. You want fantasy football punishments as sort of a one-off? I think an epic weekend planned. Make him part of the planning and then also go, oh yeah, we forgot you're not invited to this. I like it. I like this even better.

The next Friday, you all kind of like, we sit at the table, it gets real quiet. Like we've talked about this. This is gonna be your last Friday until we fix this. And here's how we're gonna do it. I think that's great. You ambush him there. It's like you like this?

Cause this is going away unless you whatever. I don't know what it is. Wait, I just thought of a better idea. Next time the women meet up for the book club, tell Mac he has to show up and strip at it. So that way it's humiliating and anyone that has any back and forth stuff with their wife can be like, it's not like you haven't had male dancers at your gatherings.

So now we're even. Yours wasn't even a bachelorette party. Yeah. Like what's this book club about? What are you reading? Men Are From Mars? The Winner of Venus? Two Milenies in one episode.

Fuck yeah. Great spot to end it. Thank you to Kyle. Thank you to Saruti and Wargon. A reminder also to the audience, we will be on Friday with an episode. We'll be on our YouTube page as well that you can subscribe to. There will be no Thursday podcast because I'm gonna be doing stuff with Bill on his pod after the first round and then we'll kind of see how the rest of the week plays out. Brian Rosilla podcast, bring your Spotify. Must be 21 and older, 18 plus in DC and present in select states.

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