The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Brooklyn Nets Check-in and Sportscasting Stories With Ryan Ruocco. Plus, Complicating the Brady Argument When It's Simple.

Episode Date: February 10, 2021

Russillo shares his thoughts on the updated GOAT argument on the heels of Tom Brady’s seventh Super Bowl win (1:30), before talking with sportscaster Ryan Ruocco about the Brooklyn Nets, coach Steve Nash, play-by-play announcing, pandemic broadcasting, and more (5:00). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (53:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's up? It's Ryan Brasilla podcast, bringer and Spotify. The plan for today, Brady, why are people making this argument complicated? We are. So put some research into this one. I think you're going to enjoy it. Ryan Rucco, voice of the Nets with also a national gig with ESPN doing NBA games. And he also has a podcast here with CeCe Sabathia on the Ringer Network. So we'll talk Nets

and a bunch of other things as well. And then life advice and a Netflix observation as well. Brady's got his seventh Super Bowl title. We know that. But now that we had a couple days to discuss it,

instead of saying, hey, as far as the team sports that we pay the most attention to and what it means for an individual resume, let's make it way more complicated with a bunch of stuff that doesn't have any common sense whatsoever. The first step is the Jordan part of this. Now, let's face it. If you're a Jordan fan, you're not sitting around on Sunday going, well, Brady broke the tie. He's better than my guy. You're going to come up with other reasons why Brady isn't better than Jordan.

And you're going to say, which again, I pointed out earlier this week that somehow Brady isn't as dominant as Jordan because he didn't play defense. That's not the sport, man. That's not the sport. I don't ever sit around talking about Pedro Martinez, who to this day is the best pitcher I've ever seen and go, I just wish he could make more contact and play. That's not the job. Now, when we look at team sports, and again, those individual resumes, as much as we're in this Jordan LeBron thing, and now what do we do with Brady, which is fun. This is the fun part of it. It is comically dismissive of Bill Russell every time this comes up, because for whatever reason, people just don't ever want to seem to count the 11 titles in 13 years as being real, as if he's this role player that was coming off the bench. And again, he'd have another one against St. Louis, but Bob Ryan

always points out he was hurting those finals and he was, and then he won at previous levels, and then he gets onto social media reminding everybody of those 11 rings, which I think he should do, but I'll admit I still find it complicated in what I'm supposed to do in comparing it to the more modern guys. The other argument that comes in, which is so predictable, is that Serena Williams is the GOAT because she has 23 slams. Okay, here's just a real simple observation. This isn't anti-Serena. This is pro math. If Brady had four chances to win a Super Bowl each year, guess what? He'd have more than seven. I don't remember anyone ever doing Federer or Nadal goat conversations in comparison to Michael Jordan, so I don't know why we're ever doing this with tennis. It's not dismissive of tennis. It's

just real simple. Let's bring up the Olympic argument. I'm not quite sure why, but it's out there. Here's a really simple explanation of this. There are incredibly decorated gymnasts and swimmers that have all sorts of individual titles and they deserve all the credit in the world. But when you have multiple events that you can compete in at the same Olympics, doesn't that mean you have more chances to win? Do you guys know this name? Walter Ray Williams Jr. He's a bowler. I think he has 47 majors. I'm not even quite sure what a major is in bowling. I spent about an hour researching it today and I said, okay, that's enough. Just move on. But nobody would ever bring that up. So why do we do it with some of the other stuff that we do? Why do we do it with sports that we kind of care about? Because you'll say, oh, we don't care about bowling.

What do you think people care about more, football or tennis? Do you want me to bring up any research? Of course you don't want me to, because it's an obvious answer to that. Let's stay with the athlete argument. People have brought that up. Well, you can't say Tom Brady is the greatest athlete of all time. Look at his 40. No one actually means that.

No one actually thinks that Tom Brady is a better athlete than Bo Jackson. But I've seen Usain Bolt dribble a basketball, and guess what? It wasn't very good. We'll do this with golf as well, because golfers will argue, well, wait, we're athletes. No, no, you golf, so you want to be considered an athlete. But I've seen before pictures shoot under par, so I'm not quite sure what to do with that.

Here's what I know. After a couple days of this, and it's always going to happen with anybody this decorated, instead of just kind of all agreeing to what we're talking about, because I think most of us actually do understand what we're talking about. Let's keep it simple because the complicated people, the reason we have contracts written the way that they're written, because none of us could ever operate and we're like, Hey, that makes sense. You want to do this? No, that's fine. Okay, but what about all these other possibilities here when a lot of those possibilities don't mean anything and don't actually, in this case,

impact the real conversation? Ryan Rucco, who has a bunch of titles, ESPN, NBA National Broadcaster, WNBA as well, and of course, with the Nets broadcast, which I think is maybe the best broadcast collection that we have. I don't want to be too biased here. Let's just put you in the top three or four there as far as Nets. Sarah, Ian, and then my man Richard Jefferson. And then, of course, R2C2 with Sabathia here on the Ringer Network and Podcast.

So what's up, man? How are you? I'm good, man. I'm good. Thanks for having me on, dude. I feel like I just need to start with this, bro. When I first was dating my now wife, she had multiple colleagues who were like, oh, that's sick. We know him. We're big fans. We listen to him all the time. And they were like, not from New York. And I was like, are you sure it's me? Well, it turns out her colleagues are actually massive fans of Ryan Russillo.

So, you know, like they thought for a while that she was dating Ryan Russillo and then found out it was actually some broadcaster they didn't know and was in fact me. Yeah, I don't think it's that complicated. It actually feels a little anti-Italian, to be honest with you, that anyone could just say, hey, Russillo and Rucco is the same thing. I will also share with you my two versions of it. On the other side, I sent one of the important decision makers towards the end of my ESPN run an email complimenting him on something. And then he hit me back with a, so proud of you. Great job on the WNBA draft coverage.

And I was like, oh, and I'm not much of an ass kisser. And so I was even, it was even weird for me to say but it was a genuine hey somebody had done something great and i was like hey what you did that was great you know shout out and again you know look it was getting towards the end of a decision that they're gonna be making with me and me with them and when i got that email back i was like i'm probably done there i was like this is this isn't very good and then i go ahead go ahead. Do you follow up though? Do you follow up and say, that wasn't actually me. I'm the other double R. Yeah, yeah.

I did like a ha, ha. I've added more ha's in my text to loosen up a little bit. The last couple of years, it's a move. I'll just add one ha in there. So people know that like, you know, cause sometimes I'll just answer a text. I'll be like, well, you know, what, you know,

what's this? And I'll just go, no. And then I'll explain why it's a no. And it's just a little, so I've noticed now when I go like, ha, no. And then explanation, it's just, it's a different version of me that I think people are more receptive to. So I did follow up with him and say, Hey, that's actually not me and he covered himself with i'm proud of you too which which meant that's tremendous yeah it just meant like oh yeah whatever fucking idiot see you later and that's why you're here now yeah that was uh that was one of the ones towards the end i was like oh wow and then anytime you're on a national broadcast and if you know because everybody's going to hate you because you're the national broadcaster yeah of course i'll get a i'll get a decent amount of stop rooting for the bucks you hate the heat and it's

and it's you so there you go um i let me the best version on the reverse of that was you in the celebrity when you played in the celebrity all-star game one one all-star weekend right yeah yeah and like people were like yo man like yeah like oh it's great seeing you out there you could ball a little bit and i was like you know what i might not correct these people like i might let them know like yeah you're right i can thanks for watching yeah the problem is i was terrible at that point i was i hadn't played and i i'm embarrassed that that's ended up like of all the times i was gonna get picked to play in that game it was it was one of the worst possible times for me to get picked but the thing is because i didn't i wasn't like

putrid you know i wasn't like greenie inbounding it the wrong way or something like that no offense to greenie but like look when you think pick up hoops you don't think Greeny first. Nets, let's start there. You were on the call last night. Yes. Detroit had 38 in the first quarter. And then I thought it was going to be kind of a classic Nets, like, hey, we're back in this. Durant was out.

But then it didn't really work out that way. It didn't come back in. We know the offensive numbers. I keep looking at that fourth quarter stuff. It's incredible. When those three guys are rolling, the Clippers game in particular, the shot making from all three,

it's actually horrifying. Because I would say like, as much as I love that Golden State group, that's a group that I would put that five, maybe the most talented five we've ever seen in the history of the game. But then it's like, wait, look at these three guys. And Kyrie's off the dribble stuff. Harden can, you know, isn a spot-up guy by any means.

So we've seen them all together. Look, you've had it for a couple weeks. Give me your first impression of the general stuff. You don't win the game last night, but just kind of where you're at now with the team. Yeah, I think that in general, the prospects of where they want to be are on the table. I think seeing them at their best,

watching them against good teams, late game situations, you're like, oh yeah, this team could win a finals this year. That's how I feel. That's how I felt watching the Clippers game. That's how I felt watching them against Milwaukee. That's how I felt watching them against basically, you know, every plus 500 team that they've played thus far this season. And so I feel like their defense in those games is good enough.

It's not it's not great. It's not fantastic, but it's good enough. It's not like noticeably horrible. It's good enough. And the offense is unbelievable. And what's impressed me rye is that they actually like i think they really quickly figured out how to access each other's strengths like maybe there's you know there's little tweaks like at times harden could

still be more aggressive at times you'd like you know durant to get more shots but for the most part i do think that in this recent run before the Durant weird protocol thing happened, like you saw all of them at their best together on the floor and really finding ways to accentuate each other's strengths and playing unselfishly.

And so that really encourages me. And that's why like long-term and you put them with Joe Harris and Jeff Green as the small ball five. And that's why, like, long term, and you put them with Joe Harris and Jeff Green as the small ball five, and that five, I think, could be a closing five of a title team. I think that five is good enough. What has been concerning, though, dude,

is that, like, they, I mean, they just do not bring it every night, you know? I mean, and when they play lesser opponents, and granted last night against Detroit, you didn't have your best player in Durant. But I mean, watching the defense at the start of that game, there's just like, I mean, we're talking about guys not jumping, like guys just like letting them waltz into the paint.

And there's been a lack of urgency on a night-in, night-out basis. They don't have a defensive-laden roster when it comes to the personnel. In order for them to be adequate defensively, they need to bring it each night. And they've only really brought it when they play top competition. And then I think they play decent enough defense to get by. But in those other games, it's like they find themselves in a 20-point hole like this. And all of a sudden, it's like, find themselves in a 20 point hole like this. And all of a sudden it's like, OK, can their offensive talent

get them out of it now that they like realize, oh, we have to play. Yeah, because the Clippers defense was incredible. I thought, oh, you know, the Clippers are going to get whatever they want.

I mean, the Detroit game, the beginning of that one last night, you could see Pistons players on offense drive and be surprised. Like, wait, I'm this open. Like they almost stop expecting a normal defensive resistance. And then be surprised like, wait, I'm this open. Like they almost stop expecting a normal defensive resistance. And then it's like, wait, I can actually take just another step because no one cares or no one's rotated or it's Jeff Green who's got stretched further away.

And what I don't like, and I've seen this from more teams recently, is these teams that are put together and they already buy into themselves. And it's great to be confident, but when you've never done it as a group, why do you carry yourself as a group? That's done it a few times. If the Lakers want to coast for a bit. And the scary thing is they're 19 and six and they're, they're tweaking and experimenting and guys have missed some games and they're still 19 and six and they're off a title. It's okay. The Clippers shouldn't be able to do that. Boston, a couple of years ago, that joke of a team that was talking about how no one can beat them in seven and these hype videos, and then they get smashed by the Bucs in five games. But they were so full of themselves going like, look at us, look at us. And now it's a collection of players like Durant has done it,

Harden hasn't, Kyrie has. We'll get into the Kyrie stuff here a little bit. So if at the end of this, we're going, ah, whatever, we should have never doubtedrie stuff here a little bit. So if at the end of this, we're going out, whatever, we should have never doubted them. I don't know why they would just assume that they're amazing. And I'm with you, like versions of them are really good, but I feel like matchup wise, they're not beating the Lakers, even if they've locked down defensively to whatever their standard is to get out of the East.

I can't imagine them dealing with that front line of the Lakers. You know, it's interesting because I was thinking about this last night. And, you know, when you first get the asset in Harden, right, you know, now you're going Bosh, James and Wade versus the kind of depth that they ended up having, they were never incredibly deep. But all of a sudden you had like seven, eight guys you felt good about right by the end of that title run. Whereas in year one, you had like four. And I think that that's what the Nets are going to be fighting a little bit is can they through the buyout market, which has become a very legitimate vessel to championship sort of augmenting assets.

to be able to play with the Lakers? Or is it going to be the kind of thing where you are able to still get out of the East because you're talented enough for that, but you're not complete until an offseason and being able to supplement what you have here? And that remains to be seen. I mean, if you, right, if you put a Drummond on this team

or a Horford or a McGee, do you think that then they would be good enough to take down a Laker team? No, I don't. Because Drummond, I mean, the weird thing is the Lakers can be huge now. So some guys like Drummond, I worry about in closing moments of playoff games because it's like, actually, do we want to take them off the floor? And I think the scary thing about the Lakers is they can go small and small for them as Davis at the five that, do we want to take him off the floor? And I think the scary thing about the Lakers is they can go small, and small for them is Davis at the five that he doesn't want to do, but they did it when they needed to last year in the playoffs.

And then they've had times where they've had Montrez, AD, and LeBron out there all at the same time. I think Drummond is, you know, I know his numbers. I know what he is. He doesn't get me all that excited. JaVale doesn't get me real excited. Horford's put up some nice little stretches here where he's more productive offensively

because he's just away from Embiid and those guys get in each other's way. But I don't like the way Horford moves as much now. So you're right. You're right to bring up all those things. And it's a great point because basically when you max out your team in that first transaction, you're the most stripped down version of yourselves.

We're like, look at the Lakers. I like them better now than I did last year. I remember when Boston had that group in 2007, 2008, I was like, man, they're going to be better next year. And arguably, look, Tibbs always tells me the 0-9 team was better than the 0-8 team, but the 0-8 team was new and they were healthy and everybody was fresh and they rolled through the whole thing with some bumps in the road. But yeah, maybe I'm not trying to sound negative on it.

I guess maybe it's more of a respect for the Lakers. And hell, even Utah, I think at this point, is somebody we have to start thinking about. Yeah, I think that's totally reasonable, Rye. And I also think that, you know, and I also do think even when I think about like, oh, you know, well, if this is the worst version of themselves, then next year they could be the favorites. It's like, well, it's still one of your shots, right?

Like in all, you still don't want to punt on one of your shots when you're like good enough to potentially get there. You want to be good enough to win it too. You can't just say, oh, next year. So I do think that they have that in mind. And I am curious how they supplement it. I think a title is on the table for them this year but to the point you were just talking about about the Lakers being 19 and 6

despite tweaking I do think that you know like after these games I think uh Durant Harden Kyrie I think they've all been really honest in assessing like how unacceptable the effort is in these games and how they need to bring it on a consistent basis but the thing that alarms me is it hasn't changed you know yeah well right like look if i had if i had a dollar for every time kairi like after something didn't work out would say hey man we just got to do this and you're like okay or harden harden knows what to say. I mean, Harden actually convinced himself that he did Houston a favor when he left.

So, you know, these guys have been around long enough. And they're smart. They're all smart. You know, they're all super smart. Yeah. I think that the other thing is, right, like you don't – it's also like habits, right? You don't want to get into habits where you just think, oh, turn it on turn it off turn on turn off first of all you're

going to lose enough games that it affects your seating and and and and it affects like where you what kind of matchups you have in the playoffs secondly at some point then it becomes part of your dna and that's not championship dna so it's still early enough where i don't think you're there and i do think the nets were thrown a little bit of a wrench. And it's going to sound like an excuse, but I, I think it's somewhat legitimate. Like I felt like they were about to go on a nice run.

And then the, they had one, like, I think it was five of six. It'd just be in the Clippers. And then the Durant thing happens. And, and I think they kind of like fell into their old ways here,

these last three games. And I do, I am curious what it would have been like if that didn't happen. But regardless, when he gets back, like they need to build some kind of consistency here so that this doesn't become even more of a trend and become one of those, you know,

sort of self-fulfilling prophecies that becomes part of their DNA for the whole season. Yeah, because I'm trying to be fair. Look, if the Nets come out of the East, I'm not going to sit here and be like, wow, I didn't see that coming. Because Kyrie alone, who I've seen the good and I've seen the bad,

when his shot making, when he decides like, okay, I really want to show off here a little bit in a good way, it's filthy. It's filthy what he can do. Yeah, it's amazing. And when those three guys are together, it's good luck when it's filthy. It's filthy what he can do. And when those three guys are together, it's good luck when it's rolling. But we haven't even brought up Philadelphia

because what the hell would MB do against this version of it right now? Again, you're right. There's probably another big coming. We don't know when. They have to be looking at some of the tax stuff that they're dealing with now. They're probably going to be a little creative

about maybe delaying it longer than they'll need to, but it depends on the competition in the market. Everybody's off in Milwaukee because nobody cares anymore, which isn't fair. And Philly, despite an easier schedule and some of the things that I think are still worth questioning with them, Embiid against this group right now in a seven game series, he's going to get 40 a game. Yeah, he is. It's true. I don't dismiss Milwaukee either. I really don't. I think that, you know, the, the nets look, we know it's hard to beat a team in a close game when the other team has three of the four best players on the floor you know i mean that it's that team usually wins those games we know that in basketball but um yeah is are the deficiencies in you know the areas where the nets are thin are they are they big enough

and are the gaps wide enough that those other teams can take advantage you know with the physicality with the second chances i mean even you know. I mean, even, you know, right. The turnovers too, you know, and that's, that, that is actually a little bit of a concern for me too. And that was, that was in golden States DNA a little bit too, you know, during their title runs, like, you know, we're so talented offensively, we can be a little more careless with the basketball, but like the difference was those warriors teams were so good defensively that they actually did have a little bit more of a margin for error, right?

This Nets team, if you look at like their defensive field goal percentage, you know, their numbers on that are actually okay. You know, they've been right around 12th to 15th in that category. I think they're like, you know,

ninth in defensive three point percentage, but they give up like 20 more field goal attempts a game think they're like, you know, ninth in defensive three-point percentage. But they give up like 20 more field goal attempts a game. And it's, you know, the result of, you know, not being able to secure the defensive glass. And then also really being careless on the offensive end. You know, the other day, they gave up 17 fast break points in the first quarter to Toronto.

The league leaders averaged 17 for a game. And I think that like that part of it, we talk about the defense, but I think like it's also the focus on the offensive end with, with, you know, not being careless with these possessions. And again,

it's early enough that none of this has me to the point where I'm like, you know, these are fatal flaws, you know, no, I'm not at that point, but it is something that I think like, you know, these are fatal flaws. You know, no, I'm not at that point. But it is something that I think like there needs to be more of a focus and an attention to detail that like locks in at some point soon because you're going on for a while now making

the same exact mistakes over and over again. I watched the first Kyrie game back. I was curious what the coverage was going to be like. And I know I probably pissed off a few people that are home announcers because I know what the job is. And so my frustration isn't with the home announcers for the most part. My frustration is what the job has become. And I feel like the job, for you to keep it, you have to be completely supportive of the organization. You're essentially team employees. And I wish the broadcast could be a little more critical, a little more honest

at times for every one of the teams. And I don't know that it's ever going to happen. And for me to bring it up can make it sound like I'm anti-announcer. And that's rarely the case. It's more about what I think the job has become. So look, I knew the Kyrie thing wasn't going to be discussed in a way where, you know, like there was a time, I think Yes Network was running a, like a graphic of like all the great things that Kyrie has done for the community and donations and stuff.

And you're like, okay, like I get it. The guy's an incredible philanthropist. He deserves all the credit in the world, but he didn't tell the staff he was leaving and didn't tell him when he wasn't coming back. And in a state where we're at now, where I think the mental health awareness and the discussions people are having today are great because there's less of a stigma with it. There's also the part of me that's the realist that would say, okay, what if he does it again? What if he does it a third time? So how do you handle something

like that where you know way more than any of us do about what's really going on but knowing that the job probably isn't going to let you be critical or make and look to be fair the first time through if no one wants to be critical fine all right nobody has to be critical for it i would just always ask the person that says hey kairi did what he needed to do okay what if it happens again what if it happens in the playoffs yeah i rye i actually love being able to talk about stuff like this because it kind of goes behind the curtain a little bit and it's honest right it's honest like i i if i'm on if i'm doing a nets game on yes i'm not going to

slam kyrie irving right like i'm not going to we all know that i'm not going not going to. And it also means I'm going to be careful no matter where I'm talking about Kyrie Irving for those reasons. But I also think when I was in college at Fordham, we used to have these workshops for WFEV, my radio station. Bob Ahrens, who was my mentor, who taught me play by play, used to have in different people in the business. And they would talk to us and teach us a lot. And it's amazing how many things from those workshops that I still not only retain, but use as foundational pieces of my advice and my broadcasting career and what I think back to. And one of the things that Mike Breen taught me when I was 19 years old, which we've talked about since, Mike became a really good friend and is a really good friend. And he's one of my favorite people on the planet.

And he taught me when I was in college was, you should, on a broadcast, always say things exactly as you would say them to the player's face, period. That should be your guide, right? And so I think that play-by-play obviously is a medium that can lend itself more to that than when we're hosting shows. We can indulge a little bit more, get a little more sassy with our words, whatever we want. But that also means, I think, when you're doing play-by-play, it means it means like there's also like this professional responsibility as an adult, as a man, to be willing to say something that maybe isn't flowery,

but that you would be comfortable saying to another adult's face, right? And so I honestly would look at it, and I think the Kyrie stuff got a little, I honestly would look at it, and I think the Kyrie stuff got a little bit covered up by the fact that Harden arrived, too, and that became a bigger story. But if I was on the air that day, I would have had no problem being like, Kyrie Irving wasn't a lot of information out as to why he wasn't with the team. Wasn't a lot of information out as to why he wasn't with the team, but it certainly feels like there was not the appropriate amount of communication from Kyrie to let everybody know why he was where he was. And that's the part of this that made this concerning. It's also the part of this that made it linger and made people question why he wasn't there. made it linger and made people question why he wasn't there. And, you know, that would be something I'd have no problem saying to Kyrie's face like, hey, you can take a minute. You could take a beat mentally. Everybody knows like, you know, mental health is a big thing. And more so than ever, this pandemic, what it has done for people's mental health. I mean, it's horrifying

in a lot of ways what it's done to people. That's fine. Everybody understands that. However, it's absolutely unprofessional to not communicate that in some way to your employer and probably also to your fans in some way to say, hey, I'm going through something. It's personal. I don't want to share the details. But I really feel like for my sake, my family's sake, I just need to take a beat. I hope you can respect my privacy. I'm just dealing with some things. That's all it would take. That's all it would take for people to be like, okay, I hope he's all right, whatever. And I think it is totally fair. And within the bounds of even being a home announcer to say not communicating some version of that was not meeting the level of professionalism

that is required when you're in the position that Kyrie Irving is. What are your impressions of Nash so far? So I really think he's the right guy for what's happened so far this season, just like temperament-wise. He's so... I mean, he's like a big wise, you know, like he's, he's so, I mean, he's like a big picture poised dude who gets it.

I think he knows how to communicate. He's thrown, he's been thrown a lot. You think about like the way this season has started. First of all, every coach, every first year coach, especially is dealing with,

I think a more difficult onboarding process than normal because of the COVID protocols and rules and lack of practice and all that, right? Then you literally have the roster flip upside down. Then you have your point guard essentially go AWOL for a period of time. You have In-N-Out with the rant and weirdness there um i feel like there's some other drama i'm forgetting anyway he's dealt with a lot i think i think it i think he's the right guy for them and i think he's got you know the right the right feel the one thing that has been made clear to me from the beginning from my conversations with

players and i've seen as well he's very respected by them. And so I think he and he's so smart, as you know. So I do think he's able to say something and it's it's bought in and then he's able to back that up, you know. But honestly, it's hard to evaluate his in-game stuff because he just hasn't had any kind of consistent roster to play with. I think he's probably at some point going to take timeouts more quickly than he is right now. But I think he's in the mode of like, let's let the guys play through it. Let's see what they're made of, that kind of thing. And then just trying to see what he's working with. I think it's hard for him to get a feel for his rotations right now.

You can see the competitor in him, right? Because he's playing hard in 42 minutes sometimes. He wants to win games. But I think it's been hard for him probably to get a feel for the rotation just because of the moving parts and who's in and who's out. Yeah, that's fair. And now it's a really short rotation. I mean, no, he had that one game.

I think it was one of the Cleveland overtime mean, no, he had that one game. I think it was one of the Cleveland overtime games, right? One went to double overtime, and then the other was regulation loss, right? Yes, yes. I can double check it now. Yeah, it was double OT and regulation and back-to-back games in Cleveland. Back-to-back games, right.

Yeah, and they got killed in regulation. It was like a pathetic performance in the game after the double OT loss. And I'm not like minutes freak out guy where somebody plays like LeBron's played a lot of minutes recently, and I saw some stuff like, okay, let's see what happens. And I'm like, well, LeBron, for me, I stopped worrying about his superhuman abilities a while ago. So I think sometimes the minute thing, I don't think I know it is at times the minute thing is obsessive and way too much of an overreaction, but that double overtime game in particular, I was shocked because he brought everybody back at eight 45 in regulation and

no one ever subbed out. They played both overtimes in the last nine minutes of regulation. Now, maybe that means, Hey, by the way, it's fine. Most of the time in overtime, a guy, guy will play his five unless somebody files out anyway, and then they'll bring him back for the other five. So whatever. I'm happy that he got the opportunity.

And I think this group in particular needs the right personality more than they need, you know, a brain surgeon basketball guy, even though Nash is very smart. I think this has way more to do with his laid back approach to this because if you had anything close to a yeller with with this group of guys i think

these guys would tune you out immediately a hundred percent that's that's how i feel too right i feel like the other thing that uh some joe harris told me uh early in the season is he said with nash there's no there there's no fluff. Like when he comes in, it's guys, this is what we need to do. This is, this is why we need to do it. Bam. There's not that like raw, you know, not that like kind of contrived raw, raw stuff that, that, you know, these guys are just going to kind of look at and be like, all right. I mean, it's almost like you've done shows for, I don't know how many years now right like 25 30 years how long like a long time right yeah if you had a producer come in and be like hey ryan this is gonna be a

great show you're gonna you'd be like yeah bro i know you know and instead you'd rather him give you something that's like actually you know useful and you don need that. And I think that's what Nash is. I think Nash gets it. He's not going to like, he understands where these guys are at in their career. And so it's all about, hey, we want to be a title team. Well, this is what we need to do.

And here's why. Like without the fluff, but he also, he's got a lot of learning to do too. It's a brand new gig for him. And so I feel like there's a lot of learning to do too. You know, it's a brand new gig for him. And so I feel like, you know, there's a lot of those subtleties that come with being on the sidelines that probably that part of it will evolve rather rapidly for him.

I think the thing that'll stay the same is what you just talked about, kind of the touch that he has and that this group needs from their head coach. Kyle, do you have days where you wish you could get me a little more fired up? Or did you just hear that from Ruko and think maybe you're not doing your job and that I need needs from their head coach. Kyle, do you have days where you wish you could get me a little more fired up? Or did you just hear that from Ruko and think maybe you're not doing your job and that I need that some days?

No comment. I don't think there'll be a producer that's ever worked with me and be like, yeah, that would be a good idea with him. You know what I mean, though, right? Absolutely, yeah. There's some people who it's like, I always say this like my least favorite hitting coach i ever had would talk to me and say things that were just like trust your hands and i'd be like you know what does that mean you know like like all of a sudden now i'm in in the box thinking like how do i trust my hands and now i'm distracted right

instead what i'd like to i'd like the hitting coach to say is like, Hey man, just step up in the box a quarter inch. Oh, okay. All right. Like, thanks. You know, like, or like that, that's something that, that can help me. Like my, my producer, Frank DeGrace, our Nets producer, we used to, I used to use that analogy with him and he's amazing at that. Like just giving you little specific things. Yeah. Like, Hey dude, don't set up the strategy before we do the promo because we want the strategy going into the action, not the promo.

Oh, good point. All right. Yeah, thanks. Like, you know, I think that's like, you know, if he was like, hey, man, you know, when you come in here,

you got to bring energy and, you know, we want a certain kind of cadence on your calls. I'd be like, yeah, like, I know that, you know, like we don't we don't need that.

And that's kind of where I think, I think like Nash is the right guy. Cause he's not going to say that stuff, the stuff that you just say to say, he's not going to do that. Do you have as a national guy, um, how long have you been doing national games now, by the way? Uh, this is, I think this is eight seasons and you're 25 so that's pretty that's a that's an incredible start i do feel i do you know what's funny is i do feel like i'm still 25 i'm like i'm i'm like you know please like please let me because i because i'm 34 now and i'm like people like yeah how old are

you and i'm like yeah like is this like am i in the like you're you're not in the you're not the young guy anymore am I still like a little bit of the young guy I don't know now you're you're the young guy because you're still I mean first of all it's absurd that at what 26 you were doing national games okay so let's start there but I recently um came upon this like development that I really because I was always the young guy forever and then it felt like overnight I was like, Oh, I'm, I'm the old guy now.

I've been the old guy now for a few years. And you go, yeah, that's, and it's kind of one of those deals where you go, because we used to make fun of that guy when we were bartending, be like the guy who's like by himself and super old and be like, what's he doing here?

But like, yeah, but that's like more of a dance club and he's hoping to dance with somebody who's divorced. You know what i mean so um no offense to any of the guys out there divorced going to dance clubs by themselves i love that you're still fighting the fight but you got made fun of and you're probably being made fun of now by bartenders but when you're the old guy in a social setting the other old old guy will latch on to you because it's like man he's like hey you know we're we're still out

here and you're like bro you're fucking 58 like get away from me there's a difference here there's a difference no you're like legitimately old i'm just old for the the setting so you're not there that hasn't happened to you yet i'm just telling you it's not going to happen to you so you're going to be fine give me give me your best is there a story when younger in your career or part of it now, or even a team that you just get more up for than any of the other ones, non-Nets related, that was kind of a moment that you know you'll always think of when you think about at least the ESPN side of this, because it's an incredible accomplishment, man.

I mean, you're 34 and you're in line for big things ahead too, which I think is really important. Thank you, man. I appreciate that, dude. I mean, you're 34 and you're in line for big things ahead, too, which I think is really important. Thank you, man. I appreciate that, dude. I, you know, I love this. Like I play by play is it's what it's what I wanted to do since I was 10 years old. And like, literally, if you look at my fifth grade yearbook for career goals, it says to announce for the Yankees, you know, which, you know, I get to do in some fashion. Right. And just like I've always wanted to do play by play. And so I have a lot of those moments, you know, which, you know, I, I get to do in some fashion. Right. And just like, I've always wanted to do play by play. And so I have a lot of those moments, you know, I mean, they're even like every time I call a game in Boston, you know, at, at, at TD garden, just feeling that crowd and

the way I always feel it, no matter whether I was coming in there with a nine win Nets team, or I I'm there for, you know, a, a LeBron versus a Boston Cavs Celtics game. I like just every time I feel that atmosphere and I can't wait to get back to feeling it, it hits you, you know,

but I think, you know, for me, the, you know, calling the Curry games at golden state, like and feeling that, it's like, wow. But one of the memories I think of that, if I want to get more specific for where it was like, wow, this is pretty crazy. I'm going to do this.

It's pretty amazing. I think it was my second year doing NBA on ESPN. And I was working with Hubie. And we're doing Spurs Blazers. And it was a triple overtime game. And Lillard scored 43. And it was like it was almost like people knew Lillard was really good. It was almost like a coming out for Lillard.

It was before he had hit the the game winners in the playoffs and all that and people just realizing like oh my gosh this guy's unbelievable um and I'm I I'm sitting there doing the game with Hubie first of all double OT comes I drink a ton of water I mean you've seen me drinking my tea during the podcast with my my r2 uh um mug there by the way, big Star Wars guy. I've noticed the books behind you there. Yes, indeed. Look at you doing the CAA ad. I hope you're repped by CAA to put that ad out there.

I am, I am actually. I don't know if that's better or worse, but. True, I don't know either, but I do love them. So I, but I'm sitting there and like, I drink a ton of hot water during the game. Like, that's my thing. Like every quarter, like I'll have at least like one thing of hot water and usually more than that.

And so by the time I get to overtime, I have to like, I got to, I got to pee, you know, at the end of the game, I have to go to the bathroom. And I did, I got to the second overtime and I'm like, I'm like in pain. I had to do the second and third overtime with like my pants undone, like halfway pulled down because I was so like, I was in so much pain as I'm doing this, like just trying to get through the game. Lillard's having this career. It was at the time of career high 43 points and Hubie,

I'm doing the game with Hubie. And I'm just like marveling at the fact that this man is, you know, I think at the time Hubie was like 82. And he is just giddy with the action. Like there was crazy shots to like tie the game set to overtime. And I'm just like, his energy and his love of the game is just, it's unbelievable. It's still just as palpable as it ever was. And I'm sitting there like, how real is this? I'm calling this like young star, like going for a career high.

I'm here like trying to fight through, like not like basically have to urinate on the floor here in Portland. And I got the legend, the Hall of famer, Hubie Brown next to me calling this game as excited as can be like, this is like, this is crazy that I'm getting to experience all of this stimulation at once in my career. And, and afterwards, like getting a, we got a drink after the game. I like, I literally like hunch ran to the bathroom after the game was over. And I, uh, and, and getting a drink afterwards with Hubie, like that high you have after a game like that. And I'm just like listening to Hubie stories. I'm like, this is

amazing that this is my life now. And then that game was one, I even actually remember Greeny reaching out. He was like, I was listening to the game he sounded amazing and like realizing how many people watch the nba on espn and if you get a good game how like more and more people hang on to it then and and are going to stay with it um and so i always think of like that game is like the game where it like hit me what i was getting to do on the national level that's perfect that's exactly what i wanted okay Before we let you go though, because you are doing local and national stuff, um, take me through the differences of being able to be in the arena with no fans and then doing what I imagine are, are some of these remote games at right now is impressive considering the challenges. So when I hear people complain or like, oh, this guy's screwing this up or all these different things, we're like, look, it's one thing to not be there, but then to not be next to physically not be next to your analyst and still call the game and not I'm I'm impressed by the industry to this point that it's not way worse.

I could not agree more, Ryan. And I think about some of our technological people at ESPN, like Eddie Acuno and Jeff Warner and so many of the other people behind the scenes who have set up everything for us. It blows my mind that they were able to come up with a technological template to be able to do this. I would have just been like, sorry, my brain doesn't have the capacity to figure this out. But they figured it out. You know, for Nets games, we're way elevated from where we were

when they're home. I mean, we're there when they're on the road as well. But like, so you don't feel the action. You know, part of the great thing about calling NBA games in courtside is you feel the action. You know, you can just, you feel the energy, you feel the just ridiculous athleticism,

the competition. So you don't feel the action as much, but the, like your eyes end up going just to the court and you don't really notice that there's not a crowd once the game is going on. Um, especially with the way the effects are in your headset, it sounds similar enough to, um, the way the effects are in your headset. It sounds similar

enough to the way it sounds with a crowd that you get lost in the action and you do feel like you're just calling it. For road games for the Nets, we're going to Barkley Center, but we're calling them off of monitors. And so we're just like looking at a monitor. Again, you have the crowd pumped in, but I have like Sarah Kustak next to me to call the game with. For the ESPN games, if I'm doing women's college, I'm in Bristol next to Rebecca at a studio. It does help to have that like analyst interaction,

seeing each other. For the NBA games, we're in two different locations. And, you know, it can definitely at times like you might step on each other when you wouldn't it blows me away how great they've made the audio setup though like i swear in my headphones doing it from my living my my kitchen table it sounds exactly like it sounds if i'm at the arena sitting courtside. Like the way they've figured out the audio is incredible.

And visually, the only thing that's difficult is because the picture is coming over the internet, sometimes there's like lag time frame to frame. So if like a guy goes up on a fast break in a blur, you might kind of like miss a little something or like goes up in traffic. You may not see who blocked it or a deflection. So you kind of have to like round your calls a little bit in those situations, like Lillard in a crowd, like couldn't get it to go, you know, nice defensive stand without me actually

saying who defended it. Cause I may not know, you know? Um, so like those kinds of things happen just because of the picture over the internet. Um, but the, the, I think if you, if you work with people who have a pretty defined cadence, like let's say Hubie Brown, for example, he has a really defined cadence with the way, uh, he does games. Um, and so for me, it's like, it's actually not that bad. Cause I know exactly when Hubie is going to talk, you know? So for me, it's actually not that bad because I know exactly when Hubie's going to talk. And so I kind of know when to stop and then he'll get in. But it can be in those in-between areas. It can be a little challenging.

But by and large, man, I've been blown away. For me, I'm a younger dude, technology, maybe I would fit to it better. But some of these analysts, they've done so well with it. I would have thought they'd be befuddled by the at-home setup. And instead, I'm blown away with how they've been able to actually roll with it. The cadence thing is so important. It used to drive me crazy with the radio shows

because ESPN Radio started going towards they didn't care if people weren't there. And Scott and I used to be split at the beginning, and we had never worked together. And so it wasn't great. And we didn't really know what the hell was. And Scott and I used to be split at the beginning and we hadn't ever worked together. And so it wasn't great. And we didn't really know what the hell was going on. Cause I mean, that's a whole nother level of the story, but we didn't, we weren't great until we were next to each other.

Yeah. And you know, there's tricks, as you said, the cadence thing. And then whenever I'm split from somebody, I would try to do things at the end of my sentences where it's like, if I'm doing a phoner, I'm doing it in a way so that the guest knows that I'm going to be done here so they can get ready for the next question and all that kind of stuff. And you don't figure any of that stuff. I mean, this is really, and probably nerdy broadcasting stuff for people. I love it. It's funny though, because I love it. And I'm like, does the audience love it? I hope they do. Cause it's

awesome. But yeah, but now's the time. I mean, now's the time where you have to sit and talk with your guys and be like, look, if you can kind of develop a little uptick at the end i mean that's what i would do yeah you know don't don't cut please don't get in the habit of cutting your your thoughts off at a non like emphatic like don't don't stop you know what i mean and you just yes yeah so dude i couldn't more. You just described that so perfectly. Cause when I used to host with Stephen A, we were rarely together. And that's exactly how I felt. I felt like every time I was done talking, I was like, instead of just punching my point,

I was like having to add something on to the end of what I was saying to let him know I was done and to see if he was listening, you know, like, and whereas like then we'd be in person and I'm like, yo, I kind of like this show. Like this, this might work, you know, but when we were in two separate spots, I was like, oh, but with the game, I think it's a little easier than what you experienced with Scott or I experienced with Steven doing shows because at least the action kind of defines a cadence for you. So it's like, okay, the only time I'll tell you one thing where it gets you. Like Van Gundy is someone who I use a lot of nonverbals with, but when I do a game with him. So Jeff has these hilarious things that like, if I just know, because Jeff

doesn't have his defined cadence when he does a game. It's not like he's going to come in and break down every single play. He's going to dive in different moments, whatever. And when you work with him, you learn that. And I love working with Jeff. But he also does this thing where like, if he's going to say something funny, he'll lean back in his chair a little bit. And I'll like, look at you. And like, I know when he gives me that look, it's not something basketball he wants to go to. Like he has something humorous he wants to go to. He'll just kind of like lean back and look at you. And I know to kind of like get out of what I'm saying, stop. So he can get into whatever hilarious thing he's going to get into. And in this case, I'm like,

I haven't actually worked with Jeff yet in this setup, but I'm like, I don't know. Like, I don't know how I would get that cue because after working with him for years, I know I know when he's going to do that. Like, I know when Jeff just wants to say something like that's like random and hilarious. And and now I'm like, I don't know. Like, I don't know how I would tee that up for him in this case. So is he looking at you like, hey, this is going to be a good one like a dad joke thing is that that's what you're selling me right now you know what it's not it i don't think it's that's funny i don't think his look is like a wait till you hear what i'm gonna say here son i don't think it's that i think it's more just like uh i think i got something you know it's like a it's kind of

like it's funny though because he does he leans back and he's just like, it just like give you, give you a little bit of a look to that, that I know, like he has something he wants to chime in on and it's going to be funny and it's not going to be anything I would have thought of otherwise. Like, cause Jeff, as you know, like he's, he's a, he's a ridiculously funny person just all around in life. And like those moments that his brain just went to something I would have never thought of. And it took me a little while to learn that with him and what that meant.

But now I know. So we'll see what happens when I actually have him in this setup. Hey, make sure you check out Ryan podcast here with CC Sabathia. It's R2C2. The guest list is incredible. So you definitely need to check it out. They had Mookie Betts on recently and that's a great guest. I'm not going to listen to it because I'm still a little bitter about it. I'm not going to lie to you and

tell you it was a great listen because I was like, I still don't think I can listen to this one. But no, man, it's been great watching your growth and everything and, and what's going on and make sure people check out that podcast too, as well. Cause he and CC get along and known each other a bit here. So it's definitely worth a listen. So thanks, man.

Thank you, man. I appreciate it. I love you, Rye. And, and, you know, I love your stuff and,

and I am always happy to be mistaken for the other double R. So, you know, tweets welcome. There you go. There's worse people to be mixed for the other double R. So, you know, tweets welcome. There you go. There's worse people to be mixed up with. That's right. Before we get to life advice,

get a couple of quick ones here. I think whenever I say that, they go way too long. But I imagine you're a drug lord content guy, right, Kyle? Like that stuff intrigues you. I'll always check it out. Triple Frontier. You know, I gave that one a shot day of. Triple Frontier.

Oh, you didn't know about Triple Frontier, the Netflix movie? Oh, it's a movie. Yeah. I was talking documentary. Oh, documentary. So, see, you could have been talking shows, documentary, movie here. But yeah, it all interests me. Yeah, Narcos.

I'm sure you watch Narcos or one of them, right? think the first two seasons you just get the subtitles i'm one of those guys that really shouldn't be like you can almost make fun of me for how many things i don't watch because the subtitles but yeah no i hear you yeah because those other narcos were great but especially if you're putting it on late at night and you're trying to maybe fall asleep like some people are fall asleep tv guys um some people are not i absolutely am yeah i am too i'll tell you what some people hate it uh but let's just um let's just examine it this way like i i can see where you go oh subtitles it's late i'm in bed i don't want to deal with subtitles but uh look here's here's what i'm gonna say say. This is an observation.

I started watching the Drug Lord documentary and it's good. It's not Narcos. It's not like that, but you can do the Pablo Escobar deal and then, of course, the Cali Cartel, which is the one that I watched. There's a couple observations I have. I feel like every time

it's the person that is in witness protection or their voice has changed or the lighting is different, that if you were part of the crew, you would know in two seconds who it was. You would know by speech pattern, you would know by like shape of their head. And then this guy that like sold out the brothers that were behind the Kali cartel, they, the guy like still i mean he had long hair and he like the lighting like if you're gonna go no lighting go no lighting don't go mood lighting so that part i understand and then the other thing that's very specific the guys that shoot these and direct them and then write out like the shooting script for it that must be

hilarious because it'll be like okay um and then here we're the shooting script for it. That must be hilarious. Cause it'd be like, okay. Um, and then here we're going to have the guys, um, clink glasses of champagne. Okay, cool. Okay. And then the next scene, we're going to have the guys look outside of window through blinds.

Okay. And then the next scene, when things are good again, they're going to have glasses of whiskey and they're just going to rotate the whiskey around. Okay. And shoot it all from underneath. Like you're three foot tall. All right, great. Okay. The next scene is we're going to have glasses of whiskey and they're just going to rotate the whiskey around. Okay. And shoot it all from underneath like you're three foot tall. All right, great. Okay. The next scene is we're going to go back to the blinds. We're going to look out the blinds

again. All right, cool. And then we have four more champagne toast scenes that we have to edit in because it's, it's not real footage. Some of the real footage was incredible in this. And so that makes up for it. Like I it. I'm big on the documentaries that I don't want all just reenacting in more modern actors, so the live footage part of it holds it together and it's good, so I don't want to make this sound like I'm totally dissing it or anything like that,

but some of the shooting scripts for the more modern stuff, it's hysterical. Be like, okay, yep, cartel guys, yep, load a gun, champagne, look out blinds. Okay, cool, that's act one good job everybody you're not with me on this guy oh no i am it reminds me like i i remember back in the day i used to watch a lot of the history channel stuff and it's like oh we're going to recreate a battle on a history channel budget all right it's the same yeah some of the history channel ones like that that world war ii one in color like i was into it but i saw the same plane go down 40 times in one of the episodes

and yeah you're like you know i appreciate the footage i appreciate the effort put into this but like there's no footage of rome so they're doing it all and it's like i think i saw that guy in the other scene and it's just i don't know it's like i get it like we can't just have the guy in the chair telling us about it but it's like are we really gonna do um the battle at carthage or whatever are we doing this you're gonna film this i get it there's only 20 of you guys so how's this gonna work exactly yeah exactly like wilford brimley again in the room like i need something something. Yeah, it's tough. There's not a lot of footage of Rome. Good call. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Lifeadvicerr at gmail.com.

Okay, Ryan, 6'2", 275, tore my meniscus in a basketball game. This is irrelevant. Okay, thank you. I've got a golfing birthday trip for a close friend of mine planned for this weekend with four guys total. Oh, so we're right at it. This guy just sent this in. Three of us aren't good at golf. We are terrible. And the other guy, which we haven't met before, has been on the Korn Ferry Tour. He's legit good.

Okay. What should my approach out there be? I hate the idea of being the too-cool-to-care kind of guy, but I also hate the idea of being the try-hard. I actually do practice and started golfing at the beginning of COVID back in March. I feel comfortable hate the idea of being the try-hard. I actually do practice and started golfing at the

beginning of COVID back in March. I feel comfortable with the three of us that typically we will go play once a month, but adding this new guy to the mix has made me start thinking. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm going to be honest. Why does he want to play with you guys? That was

my first thought. This doesn't make a ton of sense unless they bought the setup, right?'t make a ton of, unless they bought the, the setup, right? Why is a guy that's like borderline on the tour? Again, I, you know,

I don't, the whole getting your PGA cards is a whole nother level of it. But if this guy's good enough to be on this, he's incredible. And I don't know why he'd want to play with you three guys. So that part actually is really confusing. So let's just say, okay, whatever mutual friend why he'd want to play with you three guys. So that part actually is really confusing. So let's just say, okay, whatever mutual friend, he's agreed to it. Here's what you need to do. Don't worry about trying too hard. Don't worry about acting too

cool. Just play fast. All right. Buy extra balls. Don't spend forever looking for them. I know the pro V1 ones are expensive, but everything you need to do, you need to focus on you want to have fun, so now I feel like I'm putting too much pressure on you, but if you guys are this bad and just total hackers,

don't make it awful for him. Which again, this is why I don't even know why you're doing it, because you should be playing with a fourth guy that isn't any good, So you guys can bullshit and make fun of each other and have people play behind you and then ask to play through and just do like a guy's meathead round of golf. When it lands, have something to identify the general area of where it landed, a tree, you know, those kinds of things. Because I'll know if I'm not super locked in, I'll go out, you know, I didn't pay attention to where it landed. And it sucks to play with that guy.

It does. It sucks to play with people that look forever. It sucks to play with guys that just go really slow. And so I don't even know why he's doing this. But if you're worried about how he feels, then do all of those things. You know, watch your ball. Don't have him watch it for you. doing this. But if you're worried about how he feels, then do all of those things. Watch your ball. Don't have him watch it for you. Some guys you'll golf with, they'll watch yours, but it gets really annoying when there's one guy that's in charge of watching everybody's drives

or second shots because he knows that he's better off helping you and watching where your ball lands knowing that you guys aren't paying enough attention. So yeah, play fast, bring extra balls and follow the path of your shot and use some sort of marker to identify where it lands. So that's pretty much all I could say there, but really my advice would be to not play with him. I mean, unless he's doing some kind of deal where you guys paid for this and then he's going to give you pointers along the way. Yeah, but I don't, you know, and then I would add that too too if that's not what the deal is you just randomly i don't know why you're playing with them but if you are and that's part of it um i would not ask him for any tips unless he offers them up because that would probably be the worst all right

you ever get scammed kyle we got somebody here saying they're getting scammed you know i i nothing comes to mind like there's i definitely got the emails and texts and the calls or whatever but um i don't think i ever got scammed oh you know i did i bought an xbox off ebay uh my freshman year of college um because apparently it was a christmas present to my brother and I, my younger brother. So I couldn't bring it up to college with me. So I had to get one on eBay and it was,

uh, had the red ring of death on it. And, um, I had to bring a dad. I had to pawn it off on somebody else. Oh, so you sold the bad product to someone else.

Yeah. But they were at the school, you know? So it was like, uh, I just made the decision that I'm, I'm not going to be a great guy about this. So,

well, what did that guy say to you? Well, he sold me some weed for it. So I was like, what are I'm not going to be a great guy about this. What did that guy say to you? He sold me some weed for it. I was like, what are you going to say to anybody about that? It was sort of like one of those, even if this goes badly, who are you going to tell? You're a real badass, man. We got it working for like five minutes. I was like, come on, bring him down here.

Get him to come down here and look at it. So yeah, I got scammed, but then I scammed somebody else. So it was like a one-time scam. Did that guy hate you for the rest of college? Yeah, yeah. But you didn't care. He was like a little guy. Oh, you know what?

Actually, he didn't. He didn't because he didn't. I told him I didn't have the power cord. So I was like, I only got one power cord for this Xbox and I need it. So here's the Xbox. Here's it working. And then I i unplugged it gave it to him and then he was like hey when i went home for christmas break i plugged that thing in and it doesn't work and i was like i don't know you must have bumped it on the ride home or something anyway i don't want to talk about this anymore

i don't like the way i feel okay uh i love how open you were about that though you you deserve credit at least for statute of limitations i think yeah well super shitty man but your honesty somehow makes it work all right big fan of the show let's get to the chase i've got a tricky situation i want your take on i'm 32 doing pretty well for myself my brother brother-in-law, who's 22, let's call him Tim, has recently been the target of one of those get out of debt quick scams. For background reference, this guy is for sure not in any bad debt. He lives at home, works, and doesn't have any kids or lavish things. He made my wife and I sit down on one of the free Zoom courses, and this thing is clearly a scam, 100%. The business model is one of those pay $199 for a one-on-one consultation from one of their coaches to complete the entry course,

and then another $4,000 to complete the course. They claim to have the secret for paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt in a fraction of time by essentially opening another line of credit to pay off your existing debt but they tell the students victims that you achieve this financial freedom by opening a debt checking account what the fuck anyway it sucks because tim is a smart guy who's generally very responsible with his money this is where the plot thickens the reason why he's so excited about this opportunity is because one of the testimonials um from this scam course is his newish girlfriend of eight months. Wait, what? The reason he's so excited about this opportunity,

because one of the testimonials, the graduates from the scam. So one of the people, all right. So every time any one of us tries to ask him more about why he believes any of this crap, he just brushes it off and tells us to ask his girlfriend about it. He clearly doesn't know what he's getting into and is blinded by his newfound love. We don't know what to do. We don't want him to occur. We don't want him to incur any more debt or lose any large sums of money from this BS.

And I also don't want him to think we're dumping on his new girlfriend. We'd like the girl. She's nice. My wife and I have told him about our concerns and we even flat out told him that it's a scam, but he isn't trying to hear it from us. We know he's a grown man is free to do what he wants. We don't want to see this end badly. Please help. So, yeah, this sounds like a total scam. I mean, anything that whole third sentence, um, that's all you need to know about this deal. You pay the

consultation thing and they're going to tell you, look, if there was a secret way of getting out of debt, it wouldn't be as much of a secret. All right. That's the first thing. Now, will I admit there might be some limitations of my education on this on, on how to like, you know, I think there's some consolidation plans that actually can work. It can be manageable. The problem is when you're so in debt and you start fucking up your credit. And that's ironically the one that I fell for, um, in my late twenties. Now, you know, look, I was stupid in college. I'd get the credit cards out. We've been over this before, you know, a bill didn't show up. And like a young kid, I was like, well, the bill didn't show up. It means I don't have to pay it. You know? And it was like 500 bucks.

And then that's like the first thing in your credit history. And then that's on there forever. And then the weird thing was, is I was kind of treating it like a truck that I didn't care about where I was like, well, my credit's already bad now. Like who cares? And so then you start just getting into these bad habits because you don't even care about it because the number isn't high enough to begin with. So you start becoming a grownup, uh, for me a little later than others, but you're just being honest with you. And I signed up for one of those credit repair things and you know, you pay this monthly fee and it was out of Utah, I think. And that's why I don't think I'll ever do any, I won't do any reads for any of those companies because it took me a few months to realize like nothing's changing here.

You know how you fix your credit report? Paying your bills in time. And they'd say, no, no, no, we have this way of writing letters and we keep writing letters to the collection people that are after you. And you just keep writing the letters and keep writing the letters. And if they don't respond within 30 to 60, it's all sounds very convincing, especially when you're an idiot like I was at the time, because I didn't really know. So I start researching all of this stuff and then you sign up for the credit. It doesn't matter. Like the credit alerts, it doesn't just magically make

your credit go all the way up. I see some of the ads for some of that stuff now. I don't even know what it is. Obviously I don't have to worry about about that stuff anymore once you decide, hey, I need to fix this stuff. You want to start making big boy moves. But all of these things are basically predatory on someone that already probably hasn't made great financial decisions or hasn't put in the time to research any of this stuff. So your brother-in-law is 22. Um, you know, if he, if he doesn't want to listen to you on this because of a girl, then he's going to lose his four grand. You know, it's great. You care. It's great.

You care. But if he doesn't care and doesn't even want to talk to you about it and doesn't understand it, but you're saying that he's actually smart enough to understand it. He's just super into a girl at 22 years old. Hell, guys get super into girls a lot later than that and make just as dumb decisions, if not worse. So I think it's great that you're concerned about it, but you've already tried to talk to him about it. And he's clearly not going to listen. He doesn't care. He doesn't care that he's about to be scammed. I mean, you already sat down and talked to him. So I don't understand how we can incur more debt because it sounds like, I mean, unless there's some other tier of this, but if he's out 4,200 bucks, he's out 4,200 bucks. But I would tell him to stop sitting people down,

friends and family, like, hey, nobody wants to do this, Michael Scott. Nobody wants to buy your phone cards. Toby's divorced. Didn't he say that guy wasn't even in debt? Yeah, I don't understand. I don't understand

what he's signing up for here. Unless this email's fake. Well, he said he doesn't... He goes, this guy is for sure not in any bad debt. He lives at home. So I don't really get this. We don't want him to incur any more debt.

Or lose large sums of money. I don't know. I mean, he gave me the website. So I'm going to go ahead. Say no to cookies. Yeah, no kidding. Oh man. They always have.

It's always, oh God, this is, this picture's tough. White guy, dad, 30 head and hands, two year old girl kissing him on the cheek. Like he looks like he's about to end it all. And she's saying, don't worry, daddy, this website can help us live. I don't know. Have I said too much? I love this. Oh my God. I'm looking at the website now. Yeah. Look, I know somebody that, you know, some person came as like a tax consultant a small business i was like yeah i know i can fix all this fix all this like really you just fix all this yeah you know 10 grand up front the person just person just kept the 10 grand and then got the person to say things to them that they shouldn't have said about their business so yeah man that stuff

i'm not dismissing all of them but i would say as as uh as i've experienced some of this stuff whenever whenever there's you're in financial trouble it's usually not a click away to solving your problems and if you have to pay somebody else thousands uh i don't know man but i don't think you should worry about it all that much. You tried. You tried to talk to him. He said he didn't care. What are you going to do? All right. We'll talk to you on Friday. Thank you.