The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Caleb Williams Panic Meter, Cardinals Tight End Trey McBride, and 'Task' Creator Brad Ingelsby

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

Russillo opens the show with some concerning stats about Caleb Williams. Then, he’s joined by Trey McBride to discuss his hometown, his college career, and why he’s trying to stop hurdling people. Then, ‘Task’ creator Brad Ingelsby comes on to share some inside details about the pilot, the show in general, and whether he’s thought about a second season of 'Mare of Easttown.' Finally, Life Advice with Ceruti and Kyle! (0:00) Welcome to The Ryen Russillo Podcast! (1:57) Let’s talk about the peanut guy at Fenway (6:09) Caleb Williams was not good (11:06) Williams’s bad throw rate is astonishing (17:15) Trey McBride joins the show! (21:59) What’s your favorite recruiting story? (25:18) Did you ever consider transferring? (33:36) On Kyler Murray and Marvin Harrison Jr. (37:19) Let’s talk about your hurdles (40:15) How close are you to being the best tight end in football? (42:00) Russillo welcomes in Brad Ingelsby (44:58) Did you know the ending when you started writing 'Task'? (55:23) How do you write such dark characters? (1:00:41) How involved are you with casting? (1:08:41) Did you always know how you wanted the pilot to end? (1:10:28) Have you and HBO discussed a 'Mare of Easttown' sequel? (1:15:19) Does your storytelling benefit from a weekly release schedule? (1:17:53) Life Advice! (1:41:18) How to date in the era of hat-fishing (1:48:16) Could Life Advice tackle Derrick Henry? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Trey McBride and Brad Ingelsby Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, Mike Wargon, and Jonathan Frias This episode is sponsored by State Farm®️. Don’t settle for just any insurance when there’s State Farm. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I have some football thoughts for you today. Specifically, Caleb Williams, Monday night, is Caleb Guy. It was a tough second half for us, maybe even hints at a tough second half in the first half. So some thoughts on that, some numbers I'm going to share with you on the bad throat percentage number, which is not a good time. Tray McBride is on his way to potentially being the best tight end in the NFL. We're going to talk about his career from Colorado State. And even before that, shout out to Fort Morgan. May want to avoid it during the sugar beat season.

But an awesome player, an awesome contract, and an awesome story. And we've got Brad Inglesby, the master of storytelling. His new show, Task, is out on HBO. The pilot is out. You can check it out every Sunday. I want to talk to him about creating this show and everything around it. And is there ever going to be a sequel of Marevistown? And we've got life advice extended.

This is the Ryan Rosillo podcast, presented by Fandul, and the NFL is officially back. So if you're going to be in it, be in it with Fanduel. They've got the goods, futures, live betting, SGPs, that same game parlayes. Your way bets, all of it. The app's clean. It's fast. And yeah, when you win, you get paid instantly, which is nice because Sunday patience doesn't exist. So get your bets in, build something bold, and make every game feel bigger.

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Call 888-78-9-77-7-7 or visit CCPG.org forward slash chat in Connecticut, paid endorsement. I want to start today's podcast with a story. I remember the first time I saw him, Fenway Park. He was 5'10, 511, probably still is. He had Sandy Brown hair. It looked like maybe a bit of a mustache. It tells you perhaps he was a pitcher in high school. There was a scrappiness to him.

Maybe a little rough around the edges tells you that he, He was from maybe Woburn or something, not Duxbury. And he had a sweat band, kind of like a wrist, you know, sweat band that we used to wear as kids. Hitters used to wear. And then, you know, something happened in the early 2000s. Dude started moving it higher up their forearm. I remember there's a bartender that I worked with that used to just keep his bottle opener stashed in there, like his weapon of choice. And this guy just had it around his throwing arm.

He's the best peanut vendor I've ever seen in my life. And I still think about him. This episode is brought to you by Square. You're not just running a restaurant. You're building something big. And Square's there for all of it. Giving your customers more ways to order,

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big things, your tools should to. Visit square.ca to get started. I remember watching him perform those of us that were at Fenway a lot. Kind of like oh, here we go. He's in our section.

And he would throw that bag of peanuts 20, 30 rows up with, I mean just absolute insane accuracy. And the only time there were ever any incompletions is when the fans, you know,

either just bad receivers or they'd get so excited, like he's really going to throw it up here. And they would like spazz out. Then of course there was always like interception guy. Like get up a couple rows before and, you know, grab, hey, hey, I grabbed the peanuts. And then, you know, he'd kind of look at the vendor would look at them being like, you know, what are we doing trying to get peanuts to the people here?

Because people would raise their hands, you know, and he would look at them and he would flick the bag of peanuts too before he threw it. And I don't know if that was to like crack some sort of hole in it to release the air. Maybe that gave them better grip. Maybe there was something going on with the vortexes. I don't know. But he had it down. I mean, who's to question any of the process that he would have and he would kind of give this look like Kenny Stabler after a few drinks and you know the fan in the seat would point to themselves and they'd be like me all the way up here and he would just kind of like flick the sack of peanuts and just kind of give this nod and then he'd throw it right into their hands as long as they didn't move it was always a

completion and if they dropped it he'd give that look of like a quarterback being like that's a fucking in-cut. What are you doing as a football team would go back to the sideline after an incomplete on third down. It was never his fault. And honestly, it kind of wasn't ever his fault if the peanuts landed on the ground. And you have a lot of fun watching it happen because you could see those of us that are there a lot. You know, we knew the deal. And those that were seeing it for the first time, our enjoyment was seeing people enjoy it for the first. first time. Sometimes you see him after at the baseball tavern. Shout out to Rooney. Post shift, leaning, having a beer. Guys would buy him beers. Sometimes guys would like grab them a beer and then

pretend they were going to throw it at him. And he would just look at them and kind of give a smile that celebrities will give to people. I was like, yeah, hey, you know, I get it. You know, you're going to throw it, you know, but it's like, I know you're not at my level. He'd, Give this look almost like Billy the kid in jail. Like you actually, like, you don't think I'm in total control of the situation. And he kind of smile. And so, yeah, I still think about him sometimes. And the reason I'm even talking about him is that when I watch Caleb Williams on Monday night,

it didn't remind me of the peanut guy at all. Nothing. Nothing resembled the peanut guy. Confidence, rattle, accuracy. So, yeah, I'm a Caleb guy. And I know it's been two days, not technically 48 hours, but I just had some thoughts because that wasn't good. It wasn't good.

It wasn't what I was hoping for, new offense, new investments in the offensive line, a year of seasoning. And trust me, I was getting a lot of text. I got a few texts, maybe a lot. You know, 10 is probably a lot. So closer to five. Some texts in that first stretch of the game. Caleb Overson's 10 for 10.

He's got the rushing touchdown, the escapeability, all the fun stuff. Some guys are like, good for you. You're always stubborn about this stuff and good for you. And I was like, I don't know. Still have a ways to go in this one. And sure, like, we can play the game. If they make the field goal to go up 20 to 6 in the fourth quarter, maybe it's a different result. If you don't have the awful holding call on Darnell Wright, I think it right tackle.

I think there was the Stevenson pass interference call against Naylor that was pretty rough because it looked like Naylor just sort of fell down on third and on. So there's stuff we could do if you wanted to. I try to talk yourself into this. I mean, it was 12 penalties for 127 yards. But to spin it the other way, the bear's going to pick six. That offense just shut down. They had five possessions in the second half where they moved it for a total of 66 yards before the Kirk Cousins TD to cut the lead to 2724. So the game was kind of over when they put together that touchdown drive. So, So, you know, the escapeability is nice, but the running around part of it doesn't mean anything if the throwing part of it isn't there. And even though it felt pretty good in the beginning, and for the same reasons that I wasn't celebrating Caleb Williams are the same reasons why I wasn't ready to dig a grave for JJ McCarthy in his first start and didn't look good until he was incredible in the fourth quarter and just kind of let it all fly. So, you know, who knows? You know, maybe the Vikings on this JJ thing are right. And I'm not even suggesting that they're necessarily wrong, but it's a pretty bold thing to do as we've touched

on during the summer of a team 14 and 3 and being like, nope, we're going to go with the guy that was clearly, clearly they like them enough to have taken him, but just ready to hand him the keys of this whole thing. But back to Caleb, like, there's the clips out there. I mean, do you want to talk about any of the bad throws? Because there's a ton of them. There's a ton of them. I mean, I could just list all of them, but you've probably seen them already. And if you've seen the all 22 clips, it's even worse. Because I think in this Ben Johnson offense, if you think about golf, you think about, okay, a lot of it is establishing the run. It is the wins off of play action once the run is established. It is golf making the right decision when it isn't

there. And there were at times throws with Caleb where I'm like, this does remind me, maybe I'm just playing too much of that Ben Johnson was just in Detroit and golf was there. So I'm looking for the exact same things. But the right throws when it's not there. And instead of it just feeling like, especially with the lead, like they were in control and it was, hey, just finding those right throws, I don't know what happens to him because I don't know if it's just as simple as calming down a little bit, but once it starts getting weird for him, and maybe you can understand, like, goes back to the old David Carr thing with Houston, is like, could it have ever been fixed with him, considering he started off just getting his ass handed to

him and just all the sack numbers that he was taking? Like, are you, do you become this quarterback who's trying to develop and really what you're doing is developing survival. So I was wondering if there was any carryover from that. Like, are these the years or Caleb? Like if it were ever going to work out, it couldn't ever work out from the starting point. Now, the sack numbers are Caleb. They're astonishing from last year. But it's a bit like the Russell Wilson stuff, even during the peak years in Seattle, where remember the first time Wilson was suggesting like the old line needed to be a little bit better or the sack total was a little too high. It's like, yeah, a lot of those sacks are on you, though, because as great as you are in your talent to kind of keep these plays

alive, like, you'll look at some of the Caleb numbers and be like, look at all the time he has a throw. And it's like, well, time to throw can be misleading too, because time to throw can mean that you're just back there running around hoping something happens. But then the protection is totally breaking down. And you end up taking sacks. It has nothing to do with the offensive line. So the bad habits that we saw, whether it was him not seeing the field or feeling like every time me drop back, he was running for his life, which I think is part of it from last year. But if that's kind of in your internal clock, can that be fixed with new offensive linemen, new coordinator, new system, all that kind of stuff, if that's what you did for

an entire year. So again, it sounds like I'm making excuses for him. I'm not at all because the misses, you're just not going to survive in the NFL if you're going to miss throws the way he miss throws on Monday night. I like to look at the pro football reference page for the NFL quarterbacks because they have some advanced passing numbers. I'm sure, you know, again, if we really want to dig into, you can pick some of this stuff apart.

But there's a bad throw percentage number, like what percentage of your throws over the course of the season are considered bad throws? And the best thing to do is look at the player you're looking at and then compare that with everybody else. So Caleb last year on 21% of his throws are considered bad throws, according to however they calculate this number. On Monday night, 26% of his throws were considered bad throws.

His pressure rate last season, dropbacks facing pressure, pressured on 23.5% of his dropbacks in 24. Monday night, 25.6%. So that number didn't necessarily improve. But that 26% bad throw number from just one game, maybe it's just one game. We'll see. It's a carryover last year.

It's even worse. And then when you compare that, and I'm not even putting him against the studs. Like, Gino had a really good year last year. Gino, 10% of his throws considered bad throws. Let's do some other quarterbacks. Justin Fields, in 24, 16%. Drake May, 16%.

Spencer Rattler last year, 18%. Oddly enough, his bad throw percentage on 46 attempts against Arizona this past weekend, 2%. And then Mack Jones, one of our favorites. In his three years at New England, the calculation is 16% of his throws or bad throws. Again, last year, Caleb, at 21%. You don't see north of 20 very often.

And there's even some really good quarterbacks that have an oddly worse number than some of the guys you would like. So, again, the number doesn't mean everything, but it was a bad throw fest on Monday night. So look, the bad parts are so bad that it completely cancels out the good parts. And like I've always said, the scrambling part's cool. Like there was one move where, I mean, it's just a gift that he is able to kind of like step forward and then avoid pressure by like jukeing backwards and then be back on platform. And he has all the arm talent and you think, okay, well, this, this is really impressive.

But none of that is impressive to me if the throwing part isn't figured out. That's just the add-on. And as I watch Monday night or, you know, look, I can chalk up. There's plenty of really good quarterbacks to have bad rookie seasons. But I don't know where the guy is from his sophomore year, his first year at SC, where he was, what, 42 and 5 on touchdown interception split. The 10 yards on average of yards gained, a different number you can look at there on throws. I mean, just an absurd number when you calculate the whole stuff in. And some of you said, hey, you know, he regressed his junior year.

You're not paying attention to that. I looked at the junior year of him trying to survive with a season that was lost based on SC standards where they were eight and five. And I'm like, this guy's out there just trying to figure out a way to keep this team in every one of these games. So I thought with adversity, you know, it wasn't like he was one of these dudes at Alabama where they're just better than everybody else, this whole run. they get to step in NFL dudes all over the place.

And it's like, okay, really good, won a ton of games, great stats. But is he going to even have same, like even close to the same level of superiority with the rosters you're going to have in the NFL? And usually the answers always no. So I thought Caleb was actually dealing with adversity. His final year there, his junior year at SC that would actually set him up to deal with it. And that's just not happened.

So bad start. It was pretty bad, doesn't remind me the peanut guy. But I think if you know me, I'm going to have to see a lot more of this looking the same for me to ultimately submit. The Ryan Rosillo podcast is brought you by Fandall. Football fans, every NFL Thursday is your chance to hit the jackpot on Fandall because with Fandall's Thursday touchdown jackpot, you can win a share of $2 million in bonus bets each week to get on this Thursday's action. All you have to do is place in any time. touchdown score bet before the game between the commanders and the Packers kicks off. And if your player scores first or the last TD of the game, you'll win your

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Restrictions apply see terms at sportsbook.Fandil.com. gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-G-Help.com. Call 888-78-9-77-7-7 or visit ccpg.org for slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought you by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like needing an offensive guard but getting an elementary school crossing guard.

Sure, they're both guards, but who's going to protect your quarterback on the football field? You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team, so don't settle for just any insurance when it comes to getting the help you need. State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. He is one of the best tight ends in the NFL, made the Pro Bowl last year, Arizona Cardinals, Trey McBride, on behalf of Rock and Protein, which tastes great. I got a crate of it sent over here. And he's also the pride of Fort Morgan, a lovely community where I had the chance to spend a day just a couple of months ago. So what's up, man? What's up, man? Thank you so much for having me on. This will be fun to chat and talk a little

all. So it would be good. Let's start with Fort Morgan, though, because I was driving out from Denver to play golf at Bally Neal. Yeah. And then on the way back, I had like seven hours to kill. So I just was like, I guess I'll go to Fort Morgan because I driven through it on the way out there. Yeah. And then on the way back. So I hit up like some mom and pop gym that was down this dirt road. Yep. I know exactly which one you're talking about. The star. Yeah. Yeah, I did a day pass there. and then I was like, all right, where can I eat? And then I went to like this Mexican place over by a ranch supply shop where I bought a shirt. I know exactly which one you're talking about.

So talk to me about your hometown. Yeah, I mean, seven hours is a lot of time to be, you know, to kill in Fort Morgan. There's not a whole lot to do. So I, you know, I'm happy you were able to find some things to do. But for me, man, growing up in Fort Morgan was awesome. It's just a small, small community where kind of everybody knows. everybody you're you're real close with everybody you know where everybody lives and uh everybody's everybody's super close but it's something i really enjoyed uh you know growing up in that small town

you know Friday night lights the whole town really shuts down everybody's at the game you get um you know the the one time there's traffic in town is is when you know everyone's going to the football game on Friday night so it's a super special place um I love growing up there man and it definitely holds a special you know part in my heart it was like going back in time, man. It was, it was kind of cool. And I can imagine just, you know, the kids on the bikes down the street and nobody's really worried about it. And, you know, everybody, yeah, I mean, it's just because if you blink, you're through the town and then you're back on the highway, you know. Yep, 100%. I mean, it takes you just a few minutes to get from one side of town to the other side

of town. So that was always something when I went to college and moved to a different town, you know, having to stop at a couple traffic lights, having to, you know, take more than five minutes to get across town was a little different for me. So that was something I had to adjust to. But no, it was a lot of fun. I loved growing up in Fort Morgan and very, very special town. Yeah, I get caught by a train. So that took a little while, but it was kind of fun.

You know, I was like, oh, yeah, this is what it's like. And then, yeah, the gym had everything I needed. They were a little confused. They were like, what's going on? This guy's getting a day past. He lives in California. I was like, yeah, just in town taking it all in. You were a stud.

Do you still have a record, the record for most points scored in basketball? basketball history there for the high school? Yeah, yeah, I still have that one. I have the home run record and baseball, RBIs. I got a couple, a couple good ones there at that high school. So it's a lot of fun. Was it always football for you, though? You know, early, I thought it was going to be baseball. I was a really good baseball player. I could hit the ball really well. And, you know, I always wanted to play basketball. I knew it wasn't tall enough to play basketball. And then I was like, okay, well, I'm pretty good at baseball. And then baseball kind of just, you know, I thought I was good enough. I got a couple of small, you know, division two offers, a couple small, you know,

schools. But then the offers for football started rolling in. And I was like, well, it kind of, you know, decided my fate when I had way more, you know, scholarships to go play football than I did to go play baseball. And so my opportunity was to play football and I, you know, chose Colorado State. And, you know, there it is. Yeah. So it was a lot of fun. Do you realize now, though, that you were that kid? It's like, all right, this guy is just going to be great at everything he does. you have these records and, you know, that kid is either really mature and understands, like, all of this adoration, like, I have to handle it the right way as a high school kid or that kid's like the worst because everything works out for him.

Right. Yeah, I think for me it was something where I knew I was good, but I didn't really know how good I was because I came from such a small town. I was like, man, am I just good because I'm in this small town or am I good? You know, would I be good if I went to a school in Denver, if I went to a, bigger school or am I just the best of what we have here in Form Morgan? And it wasn't a huge sample size. So I didn't really know how good I really could be. And that was something that when I got to college, you know, learn quickly that I could, you know, be one of the best there

at college too. So it was just one of those things I didn't know until I just kept going and kind of just kept excelling every year. So when you were getting recruited, what's your favorite story from that time. You know, one story that sticks out to me was, you know, I was getting recruited by, I had a couple offers, you know, I had Wyoming, I had Colorado State, I had Hal Berkeley, and I was kind of wanting to, you know, choose kind of between a few of those schools. Well, Colorado State had offered me, and they offered me early when I was a freshman in high school, so they had been recruited me for a long time.

A lot of these other schools came in, you know, junior years, things like that. So I ended up committing to Colorado State my junior year. And shortly after I committed to Colorado State, you know, I thought I was like, oh, maybe I'll still go on a couple, you know, visits. I'll go visit Wyoming. I'll go visit a couple other schools after I'd already committed. And, you know, not really thinking. The other schools are like, yeah, bro, you're not coming on like these visits unless you decommit from your school or you don't tell the coaches you don't want to play for them. And then you can come out on a visit.

So I had all these, you know, recruiting visits lined up. And Wyoming was not hosting me on any, you know, any recruiting business. visit if I was committed to Colorado State. So it was just one of those things where I thought, you know, I thought I was going to be able to visit all these schools and go and, you know, explore all these other schools. But I committed so early that, that they were all checked out on me. And none of them wanted anything to do with me after, after I had committed. So it was one of those kind of a tough deal for me. But I'm glad it all worked out. Colorado State was a lot to me. Was there a little apprehension then, you know, even at Colorado State, where you're taking

the field, D1 now. And, you know, kind of what you already said is this, Fort Morgan, or is this me? Yeah, 100%. It was like, am I good enough to play at this level? You know, I was really good at Port Morgan. I was good at a small school, but it was like, can I do this at this level? Can I compete at this division one level with all these guys that are bigger, faster, stronger, whatever than I am.

So it was, and it was so much fun. You know, actually my brother was there at Colorado State with me. So it really did feel like home when I was there at CSU. So to go out on the field and play with him a few times was a lot of fun too. was it pretty quick though was it pretty quick we were like actually i might be a beast yeah well you know it actually i didn't come i didn't play as much as i wanted to my freshman year i was kind of like the backup tight end they had a guy there already so i didn't really get my opportunity but when i did get my first opportunity i played really well and then i was like yeah i can

compete at this level i can play at this division one level and uh and then kind of took off from there when did you start thinking about the NFL really um i think after my sophomore season um i had a you know first team all conference mountain west season and and really it was after that season that I was like wow this could really be a dream uh you know something that I could really do and and then that's kind of when I put all my eggs in the one basket and I was like I'm going to kind of go all in on football I'm going to like really you know pour everything into this so I have a chance at this NFL and my whole thing was I wanted to play three years after that sophomore season I was first team all conference I was like man if I have one more good season I can go to the

NFL next year and do that. Well, then that third year, my, you know, was COVID and kind of that all happened. So then I ended up having to stay one more year to the 2021 season and then went to the NFL after that. But it was really after my sophomore season when I felt like I really have a chance to do this NFL thing. I remember during the COVID year, were you thinking about transferring out? Yeah, I was. It wasn't really because I didn't want to be at Colorado State. It was during COVID, they weren't going to play a season. The Mountain West had no football season. They were going to cancel the whole year.

So that was right after I had that really good season. And I was like, man, I just need one more year and I can probably go to the NFL. So my whole thing was I'm going to transfer to a school in the SBC that I know for sure is going to be playing football. Like I know they're going to be playing a football season. I'll transfer to that school. I'll play one season and then I'll go to the NFL. That was really my goal. And then, you know, right when I was getting ready to transfer,

Colorado or the Mountain West decided, hey, we're going to actually play a season. So then kind of backed out of the transfer portal, I didn't really want to leave. I just wanted to play a season that year. Well, we can do it now, then. We're in the SEC where you're going to go? I was actually going to go to South Carolina because my old head coach, Mike Bobo, had gotten the offensive coordinator job there at South Carolina. So he got fired, got the offensive coordinator job there, South Carolina.

So I was probably going to end up there and playing for him one more season. man it's just crazy you know you always wonder well what would have happened if i would have transferred and you know what would have been different all this and that so it's just you know i'm thankful i stayed at coloros state but you know every once in a while i think man what would it really happened had i went uh you know that that route i don't want to jump ahead kind of in the interview but like i think about some of the tight ends that are just rock stars in this league right and you know whether it's i mean we can go however long down the line we want to go but like certainly with Gronk and then Kelsey and then Kittal.

And look, you made the Pro Bowl last year. So sometimes when I'm like, I don't know when it was like the first time with you watching you in the NFL where I thought, man, this guy's kind of nasty, you know. Maybe if you had played in the S, you know, if you would play it in the Big Ten or something like that, maybe you come into the league as a second round pick with people having more awareness about you. But then also, you know, your rookie year, you've already talked about it. Like, you know, it's not like you didn't play at all, but you didn't play as much as you wanted to.

you still had, I don't know, 29 catches, something like that. So it felt like it took everyone kind of a longer time to catch up to who you were and the impact you were making. And I don't know. Did that ever bother you? Does that stuff matter? You know, it doesn't really matter in the long run. It's like, whatever.

But, you know, every once in a while, I'm like, why don't, you know, people talk about me as much as I feel like I should be talked about or why don't people, you know, know who I am as much as they know with these other tight ends, things like that. But at the same time, man, it doesn't really matter. I play, you know, I've been playing good football for a couple years. I'm going to continue to do that. And I think as long as we continue to win, we win a lot of football games. And that's when, you know, then everything else will kind of take care of us.

I do think everybody knows that. Yeah, I don't. It's getting better for sure. Yeah, yeah. So maybe I'm going back to like two years ago before the 24th season, which was kind of you're coming out party nationally. And yeah, you're right. Like if you win, this stuff will take care of itself.

But when I think about the draft and, you know, you went back into the second round and we talked to so many guys like hey take us through draft night like what was that night like for you i feel like almost every dude goes well i thought maybe there's a chance i was going to go 20 like there's always that kind of story did you have any thought that you could be surprised did you go where you thought you were going to go like what do you remember from that stage of entering the week the draft night was a funny funny deal for me because um you know i was coming off the John Mackey Award, I was the top tight end in the country. So I was like, I, you know, I had a pretty strong feeling that I was going to be the top tight end taken.

And I was like, looking back, I'm like, man, there's been a lot of, you know, tight ends in the first round the last couple years. I'm like, you know, there's a good chance I could go, you know, at the back end of this first round, early second round was kind of where I had expected to go. And it was one of those things where I had this huge party the first night and, you know, obviously didn't get taken the first night. So I was real upset, bummed, embarrassed. all, you know, all the emotions going through and, you know, I had all my friends and family at this party and didn't get drafted and blah, blah, blah. And then the next day, you know, waiting kind of the kind of through the middle of the second round, you know, thinking I'm going to be a pretty

early pick in that second round, you know, not getting the call, not getting the call, not getting the call. And then finally, you know, get up, you know, I've been waiting for a couple hours, get up to go to the restroom. And as soon as I go to the restroom, I come back, I have three missed calls on my phone. I'm like, well, I've been sitting here for two and a half hours and had no one's called me. I get up for 30 seconds to go to the restroom and I have all these missed calls. So, you know, Cardinals called me. Obviously, you know, we're chatting with them, but it was one of those things where I didn't talk to the Cardinals, the whole draft process. I didn't have one, you know, really talk to them at all because they were picked 55. I didn't

think I would fall that far. And I didn't, you know, I thought I'd be drafted before that, whatever they probably did too. And then they drafted me. And, you know, obviously very, thankful and happy they did and grateful to be here. Did anyone tell you to not have the party just in case? You know, they were my, you know, my agents were like, if you're going to get picked in the first round, it's going to be the last five picks or something

these picks. So he's like, it's up to you. And I was like, dude, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to be the, you know, I'm going to be picked for blah, blah. So I'm like, it's like if I didn't have the party and then got picked, whatever, so got all dressed up, whatever, didn't get picked, and then had to come back to second night for for round two so yeah and look then you became the highest paid tight end in the NFL but kid

'll only let you have that what for a couple weeks yeah just a few weeks i knew it was coming you know we were talking at the pro bowl he's like you know just waiting for you to you know sign your deal so i can uh you know renegotiate here and i was like well i'm waiting for you to sign your deal so i can you know so it was one of those things where we were just kind of you know playing around with you know screwing with each other but i'm happy for him obviously he deserves all of it and uh you know it's cool to have that title for however long at women's yeah he's the best man he's uh he's a good dude how does that work because like there's certain things i think when you're in a very rare industry right like there's you know this isn't as cool but like there's usually like a handful people i can talk

about my stuff and they understand it and it's like family doesn't understand it even a wife or a girlfriend they're not going to understand it um is that kind of funny for you to be sitting there talking about kiddle and we're talking life-changing amounts of money and you're just two buddies who play the same position going like hey what's the deal with you yeah 100% it's super cool and then just to you know have the conversations to be there to to be in the conversation with him it was super cool but he's great man he's uh it's one of those things where i want him to you know get his paid as much and then i want someone to jump him and then everyone kind of just keeps jumping each other and and then we all make more money so that's kind of the whole goal is is we all just kind of make each

other some more money. So I'm excited for him and, uh, you know, hopefully someone will jump him soon. Who was your favorite tight end growing up? Um, you know, I was a huge Garnkowski fan. I was a, I love watching, you know, when he was there in New England. That was a lot of fun to watch. Um, watched him a ton. But Shannon Sharp, you know, grew up in Colorado too. So, you know, watching him growing, uh, growing up was a lot of fun too. Did you like receivers as, as much though? Because I mean, I think that's the thing that always, it freaks out. out some corners. You know, I've heard some conversations around it where it's like, this guy's running routes. Like, this guy's not supposed to be a tight end in that body. Yeah, it was,

you know, that's kind of one of those things where I was always kind of a receiver growing up. I was one of those guys who just caught the ball. I was just kind of the athlete. And I just became a little too big to play receiver. And they're like, you're a little too slow. You're not, you know, you got to, you got to, you know, put your hand in the dirt a little bit and learn how to block too. So that's kind of how it all started. But I really didn't really play tight in until like my senior year because I was playing quarterback running back receiver I was moving all over the place just doing all sorts of different things on offense so one of those things where it just kind of come came later and yeah and I think you know I was I was listening

to your your OC talk about you and I really what I should have said is the tight end body running routes like a receiver right as you filled out a little bit but I want to talk about Kyler because I think there are things that we don't understand about that dynamic between a quarterback and his receivers and a tight end. You've been with him a bunch of years now. What did you learn about what you had to figure out to make that relationship this great on the field? Yeah, I think I had to really understand how he likes to play.

He's a guy who he plays the game a certain way. He kind of plays with a little bit of freedom. He kind of plays, you know, outside of the box a little bit. So I had to learn that. It didn't come naturally. And, you know, whatever your route is on paper, it might not always look like that. And it was one of those things where I was always running, like,

if I had a 10 yard out, I'd run 10 yards and I'd run right. So everything that was on paper, I would do that. And then I learned quickly where he's like, man, if you're open, like let's, you know, come on. Like, don't run to get covered. Like, you know, so then after a few reps with him and understanding how he sees the game, how he plays the game, just kind of tried to figure out how he did it. And slowly just got better and better.

and we have a great connection. I feel like I'm on the same page as him. I know exactly what he's thinking, and I'm excited to continue for that connection to grow and just see where we can take this thing. So you'll basically have the route, and then it's freestyle time, right? Yeah, I mean, not freestyle,

but within some limitations, you know, some limitations, you know, have a little bit of freedom to get open. Yeah. I'd say sometimes it looks like backyard. and that's yeah and then a credit to his escapeability and i mean he's an insane athlete yeah he's one of those guys where you just you the plays and never over you know you could think he's about to get tackled and he he loops out he skits out of you know skits out of it somehow

runs around and and make some incredible throw so he's one of those guys where you got to be able to play uh and never give up on the play what is having harrison junior next do you mean for you Obviously, he's a stud. He's a threat to the defense. He brings so much attention, you know, when he's out there. So he's a guy for me where, you know, he goes out there and makes a couple big plays, and I can make a big play. And we can kind of play off of each other where they can't double us both.

They can't cover us both. But he's one of those guys who is an impact player, a guy who, you know, does everything the right way. And I'm excited to see the big jump he's going to make in your two. Is there a difference? Like you lead the team in receptions last year. And sometimes you might think like, okay, is that the best thing for the offense? You know, again, I don't even know that that even sounds like it's fair to you because I'm sure you're psyched about all the targets and all that kind of stuff.

But it's like, hey, if we want to be the kind of threat we need to be to be winning more games, like do you look at it as, hey, it's better if I'm not the primary on all of these dropbacks? Because now we have a guy, obviously, he's one of the all-time talents that we've seen in college football. and he got an early start this past weekend and your win against the Saints. But it's one of those situations where I imagine all of you get to a point in your career, especially once you get paid,

where it's like it'd be great to be the primary on less of these. So we have more balance and we know that we can attack in different areas. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's something that I think is a great idea. I think Marvin deserves all the targets he gets and more. You know, he's a guy who's going to win,

he's going to get open, and he's going to make the play when it's thrown to him. So I am not opposed to getting him to ball as much as possible. And I think that's exactly what the coaches are trying to do, is find ways to get, you know, our playmakers the ball and get him the ball in his hands so he can go out there and help win us in football games.

Let's talk about the third and seven last year against the Jets. Sauce Gardner. Yeah. And then the hurdle. That was the kind of play that I think. It wasn't just shedding sauce, which, again, a corner is going to have a hard time trying to tackle a tight end up high, but you've got to convert.

You're catching it. behind the line to gain, and then you hurdle out. What was it like on the sidelines once you realized what you would actually done? You know, I watched that place sometimes, and I'm just like, holy smokes, like, what the heck was I thinking? What was going through my mind? And it's funny because when you're out there, you don't really think you just have, you have like a split second to make this decision.

And I broke the tackle and I was like, man, I'm about to get this first down. And then all of a sudden I'm, you know, four feet in the air, jumping over, you know a really good really good player as well so i was just like get the first down and then just to see all all the excitement of the the teammates of my my coaches my teammates it's just cool that that i was able to bring that much juice that much energy but i look back at that plane i'm like man what the heck was i think and i just lose my mind out there sometimes i guess i know you said you got to stop hurtling um i didn't see every snap this sunday because of all the different games and where are we right now with your your evolution yeah we're over you know we're

one, you know, one game in, no hurdles, so that's good. So, like I said, I'm trying not to hurdle. I've never done hurdles in my life. I've never done track, none of that. So I don't know where this comes from or what, you know, what makes me do that, but definitely not trying to do that for sure. Yeah, I mean, that's the first thing they ever tell you playing football. It's like, don't jump in the air.

Yeah, but it's just so hard when you're good at it. Yeah, and I, you know, was never expecting to do it. And then last year, I think I did it like three or four times. And I'm like, all right, I need to chill out a little bit and not jump so much. So how do you feel? I mean, I know you're not going to sit here and go, well, you know, it's the beginning of the year. Every team feels great about the best case scenarios and all those possibilities. But like, how do you feel?

And I guess we'll just speak to the offense. How do you feel as an offense right now, if everybody's healthy, the added pieces, another year in this system? Where are you at right now? Yeah, I think we're bringing a lot of pieces back, you know, our, pretty much bringing the whole offense back. So that's something that I'm excited for is now we have another year in the same system, same offense, same players to kind of really dial in on the details and know exactly what your job responsibility is on every plane.

I'm really excited at where we can be, the people we have on this team, the people we have on this offense. I think we have the potential to be very good. So I'm excited as long as everyone stays healthy, like you said. But I think we can, you know, be a force to reckon with it for sure. your career like i know it's super bowls and all that different stuff but like how close do you think you are to being acknowledged as the best tight end in the NFL um you know i think it just comes down to to being consistent obviously these guys that george kittle Travis kelsey these guys

they've been doing this for so long they've been you know playing in this league for 8 9 10 11 years, however long, Mark Andrews, all these other guys. So they've been doing this for so long. They're, you know, great tight ends. They've been doing this for so many years. So I think, you know, obviously, I think time on task is one of those things where you really get to get that. And I'm only in my fourth year.

I'm just trying to be the best player that I can be. And I don't even think I'm close to considered that right now. So I just want to continue to be a good player. And, you know, we'll, you know, see you at the end of the career where that's at. Talk to me a little bit more about rocking protein because I was pumped. You guys sent it over. It tastes great. I know it's available, Walmart, Dollar General Kroger, but I know you're working with those guys.

Yeah, it's great, man. They're just great people based here in Arizona. It's something that I wanted to, you know, be with local people. Wanted to, you know, be with people who are here in the local community. But 30 grams of protein, it's really good, doesn't have that chalky taste. But I think the cool thing is there's three flavors as well. I think there's chocolate, strawberry, and vanilla. So they're all great.

It's for everybody, you know, whether you're working out or not, it's just, it's good stuff, taste awesome, and I recommend it. Last thing. Can you clear up, I don't know if this was guys that weren't from Fort Morgan, but when I said I spent time there, people started posting Fart Morgan. Is that a thing? Because I don't think it was very nice. There's the sugar beet factor right there.

And I'm sure you saw that right when you drove in, all the smoke, the pollution. but it doesn't smell very good when they're making those sugar beets and things like that, cutting them up. So it does reek. It's one of the worst smelling towns in the States. So, yeah, it does get that reputation, but it's all I know, it's where I grew up. So I love it. All right.

Well set. Thanks so much, Drake. Good luck. Yeah, man. I appreciate you having me on and we'll talk soon. Td Bank knows that running a small business. is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to

entrepreneurs, no matter the stage of business you're in. Visit td.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a TD small business banking account manager. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. He's been on the pod before, and we're thrilled to have him back. His new show, Task, is out. The first episode on HBO coming out every Sunday night.

It's Brad to English Beach. What's up, man? It's good to see you. It's great to see you, Ryan. How you doing, buddy? I'm great. I'm really happy for you. And, you know, look, we've talked in the past about your work, whether it was Mary East

town out of the furnace, which got a nice reference on the pod again on Monday as we keep pushing for this to become a cult classic so many years later. But I like to ask anybody that creates a show and writes this whole thing out. And I love the first episode. I think a lot of people did. And just a heads up, it's going to be some spoilers here. So where was this story? Like, how was this rattling around in your head? Yeah. Yeah. So I always start with characters. And I think on this one in particular, it was a character. You know, my uncle was a priest for a long time. He's an Augustinian. He left the priesthood after about 30 some years. And so that's just always been interesting to me. And we have a bunch of advisors we use on the

police shows. And we learned that the FBI uses priests and rabbis and other clergy when in the wake of mass casualty events, they bring them along to counsel people in the aftermath. And I just thought, Wow, that's an interesting, interesting character, a guy who was a priest who worked at a parish, and now is bringing that point of view to a different life of service, in this case, the FBI. And what I would always say to Ruffalo is he doesn't really have any superpowers as an agent. He's not really good with a gun or he doesn't notice clues other people can't, but he's coming to the job with a very specific viewpoint. And that's, he's trying to see the good in people. He's leading with compassion and kindness. So it started there.

And then, and then the other sort of anecdote that I learned, you know, in chatting with our advisors was, I was, I was, at the time, I was working on another story, Ryan, and one of my advisors said to me, trash men and mailmen, you know, they come through your neighborhood every day and they know so much about your life, but they're completely invisible. And that always resonated with me. And so it started with those two ideas. And then it became a job of trying to figure out a plot where I could tell the stories of those two guys. And we came up with the collision course. And then we started to fill out their lights from there. So did you have the end? And again, I haven't watched any of those.

Yeah. But did you have the end of this that you were able to write to? Like you were like, okay, I have this and now I can backfill it? Or were you changing your mind, the long? the way. I don't know. So I had an ending that I thought would, you know, given the circumstances of the Ruffalo character and what's happened in the family unit, I had a specific ending for him, a specific emotional ending that I thought I could aim towards. And I never start a script unless I know the ending because I don't have many rules about writing. I always say, what works for you,

what gets you to the end is the right way. But the one rule that, you know, when I mentor you, young writers, I try to say is have an ending, you know, because what it does is it gives you guardrails, right? If you know where you have to go emotionally, you can't go too far outside of the guardrails because then you have to travel so far to get back in. So I always know where the show or the movie ends emotionally. What happens in the middle, I often get lost and have to figure out. But knowing where it ends emotionally, I sort of have the bookends in place and I know that I have to stay within the limits of those two things. So on this one, I did have the ending in mind when I started writing. My favorite thing about you is that I think you are the most efficient

at giving us all of the backstory in the least amount of detail. And I don't know if that's in dialogue, but the first scene with Ruffalo with his daughter and he's sitting there and he's got the dorky outfit on. And he's got way too much son. screen on and he's working in the garden. And you can tell that the daughter, there's obviously this issue, but he's so in love with her. And she's at that age where he's not going to feel loved. And it's in the driveway. And I don't even know if it's 20 seconds, Brad. But you, and I think back to like Aaron's character and Mary Easttown, who again, Kaylee is probably one of my favorite actually. Like, it sucked she had to die in that show because she was so good. And I felt so bad for

her in a minute because you told us everything about the challenges in her life. And I don't know. I mean, I imagine you're probably pretty used to praise at this point. But is that something that you've sought out? Is that something we were like, let me, especially in a pilot, give you all you need without really any dialogue whatsoever? Well, I appreciate you saying that. And I'll credit to Kaley. I'll just give her a shout out here. We saw so many actresses on. that show, Ryan. And I said to our casting director, A.V. Kaufman, like, hey, we really have to get someone that's going to resonate because her death is what carries us through the entire show. We need an actress who's so memorable. And Kaylee was, I thought she was just extraordinary.

And as you said, in an incredibly short amount of time, I thought she was extraordinary. But, you know, I always say to, you know, in the room when we're working on a script, I always say, like, I want a scene to be doing a couple different things. It's moving the ball down the field in terms of the plot, right? Okay, we have to get a clue. But how is it also giving us a history? And like you mentioned that scene in the driveway at the beginning of episode one. As you said, I love that he wears way too much of sunscreen, right?

That's what it's, it just says something about him as a character. His clothes are tattered and old. He's trying to do things to get his daughter's love. in that. Oh, I made this for you. I can stop by the Acme. I'll go to this place for it. And you can see him constantly stretching. And so if you look at that scene, it's, oh, oh, we're going to meet up later. Maybe I'll stop by later. So it's giving the audience an expectation. And it's going to be paid off later when he shows up at Rita's water. So it does that in terms of moving the plot. But as you said, it gives you a history. Wow, something's going on there. She really doesn't want to

talk to him. There's something they're both avoiding. He's making an effort to talk to her, but she doesn't want to talk to him. So it's giving the audience a mystery that they want to actually solve later in the show. And when a scene can be doing two things at once, without ever trying to seem like it's doing that many things at once, maybe that's the trick of it, then I think you're on to something. You also, and it feels like, you know, whether it's mayor, whether it's this, it's the cliffhanger, right? It's the traditional suspense that that, that, that maybe is less common now. I mean, it feels a little less common.

It's like, hey, this is going to be like a fun every week experience. I mean, Mare was certainly that, the kind of classic who done it. But the suspense within the longer suspense, where even with Pelfrey and his partner and they're garbage men, but at first I'm like, are they undercover because they're going through the garbage? I don't know if you meant to set that up, but there feels like, especially as you're learning about the characters the first time around, is that, yeah, there's going to be a lot of to be a longer mystery to this thing, but I kind of want to keep you just on your toes. I want you

to not maybe fully understand what I'm setting up here, even at the beginning of some of the scenes. Well, absolutely. I, you know, I think that's a great point. I, you know, it's, I was once talking to a journalist, a magazine writer, Matt T, who I worked on a movie once, and he said to me, it's, it's not, it's not the information. It's, it's the order of information, how you give an audience or a reader, in his case, you know, the information. And I think that's really important. You could throw all the information out at once at the top of the episode, or you could gradually kind of place these seeds.

And so as the show progresses, which I hope this show does, you learn new things about the characters in each episode, all the characters, the people in the task force, you know, Martha Plimpton's character. And so you're constantly as an audience learning about them. And you feel like, oh, I thought I knew them. Wow, but actually they're like this. And then as it gets deeper, wow, I thought they were like this, but now they're like this. And so I love the idea that as you go, there are still mysteries that need to be answered. There's the overall mystery of the show, which is what's going to happen in terms of the plot. But there's also getting to know the audience. And I think so much of screenwriting a series is the order of information. When you give the information and how you give the information. And how you give the information and how you're keeping something in your back pocket so the audience never feels like I know everything about these characters in the first episode and yep that was exactly who they were

the whole way well no people are really complicated you think you know them and then they do this and then they do this and then they do this and I think that's what I'm always trying to get at is is the layers of the characters it's people aren't exactly who they seem and how do you use information and as you said character beats to give an audience a little another layer another layer another layer And I also want to make sure I shout out Tom Pelper's partner, Ravel Casillo, yeah. Yeah, as a BU guy. I'm not, but I wanted to acknowledge him in that because I love the line and I'm going to ask you about the specific line because early on, we're learning about them. They're hanging out.

They're on a lunch break. Pelfry's characters like pointing to this private island you can buy in Canada. And the first thing Raul says is who's going to take out your trash. Did you, what is the origin behind that? Because honestly, I'd never thought about that. And it was, it does, I don't even know that it adds a ton. It actually wasn't like, oh, this is a seat. No, it's just, it's such an odd observation that it just really worked.

Well, I think, you know, when I always thought of Robbie and Cliff, I always thought Robbie was a dreamer and Cliff was the practical guy in the relationship. So, so when Robbie said, look at this, you could own your own island, it's very Cliff to go, wait a second, who's going to pick up your trip? Like, it's the most practical thing that would never come to mind for anybody else, especially Robbie, but I think that exchange, it kind of epitomizes their relationship. Here's the dreamer who's just thinking about these crazy islands in Canada, and here's a guy that's going, wait a second, if we lived on an island, who comes and gets your track? You know, and it was a very, in my mind,

it was a very simple way to have an audience understand who was the dreamer of the two and who was the practical, who was the practical one. There's no way you came up with that line in the first draft. I actually did. No way. I actually, and listen, there's a lot of things we change. That's incredible. But I'm serious. That one was in the first draft. Many, many things changed along the way, but that one was in the script from the,

from the jump, you know? You had to feel pretty good about yourself what you wrote that, that, look at it. I can tell you this, and everyone who knows me, I never feel good about myself. It's always self-doubt. Everything stinks. I'll never, I'll never go back and watch Task or Mayor of East Down as long as I live, because if I ever watch it, all I'll do is point out all the things. that we did wrong and all the lines that didn't work.

And so I would say the pat's on the back never really happened. You know this. You're a right. And you know how it is. You're always doubting yourself. You always, oh, God, can we make it a little better? I wish I had a better line. I wish it was a little bit more tense.

I wish the emotional payoff was a little bit bigger. It's a constant, constant cycle of doubt, you know? Yeah, I think the thing I've learned is like, oh, so it's kind of never done. Oh, never. It's never done until they take it away from you, right? Until they're like, guys, the edit is actually like, we are closing up shop, we're packing the computers. I mean, up until the last minute, I was like,

I'd still like to go back to that episode one and look at that action sequence. We might have missed that one shot. And it's like, you know, we've run out of money. We've run out of time. The editors are going home. It's never done. It is never done. Yeah.

And like to your point, I'm sure if you watch Mayor, you would find all sort of, well, you know, I could have changed this word. And that's the thing about it. It's like eventually you have to go, yeah, we could change a ton of it. We could keep changing and changing and changing, but eventually, like, somebody has to talk in front of a camera. Yeah, yep. Your background, I know I've talked to you about, but I almost feel like I have to be reminded of it. Because between this out of the furnace, mayor, and now, you know, here we go again, where it's this gritty, blue collar, rough around the edges.

Did you know these people or did, is there as dark side to your past that I'm not aware of? You know, it's funny, not really. I think, you know, I would say the neighborhoods in the show that where Ruffalo's character lives was, you know, was sort of where I grew up, that sort of very suburban, kind of leafy Delaware County. I actually grew up in Chester County, but one county over. And all my relatives still live in Delaware County and Chester County. But I think, you know, everyone always asked me. I think I'm a pretty nice guy and we're like, wow, you seem so incredibly dark.

I don't know. I think that really is the job of a writer is to be able to put yourself in people's shoes. And there are parts of each story that are true. You know, as an example, in Mayer, my grandmother moved in with us and she lived with me after she wasn't able to live on her own. And so the Gene Smart character was different from my grandmother,

but the idea of a grandmother coming in to live with her mother, you know, is part of my life. My uncle was a priest. He left the priest and he married a woman. So there are elements that I am tied to in the show. And there are certain characters that I feel a closeness to. And then there's the idea where, hey, it needs to be entertaining. As you said, there needs to be a cliffhanger.

An audience needs to come back. So we have to wrap our arms around the genre expectations of an audience. But I also, I really see myself as a character writer. Like, Mayor to me was a story of a woman. who couldn't get over the loss of her son and perhaps her own failures as a mother she had to come to terms with that she had to forgive herself

task in my mind is the story of a father and his son I won't spoil anything that happens along the way but equally a character study of a guy who's lost his faith and so those are themes I can tie into I can tie into the themes and I know those themes without knowing how an FBI

would go into a raid you know so I always feel Ryan, if I'm able to access someone emotionally, the other side, you know, the parts of their life I don't know, I can use tech advisors. The chief of police in Easttown is a friend. He comes in and helps me with the stories. We have an FBI agent. So if I can find a way in emotionally, like the other things I think I can, I have a rich enough imagination where I can get there, but it's the emotional access that I need to come from my real life. And so, you know, Even in mayor, I'm not a mother.

I didn't lose a child in that way. But I am a father, and certainly the greatest, you know, all the fears you have as a parent are losing a child. So I'm able to access that in some way. And then the other side, I just got to use my tech advisors and research and do that thing. But, you know, it's a bit of my own life and then it's a bit of trying to imagine yourself in the shoes of someone else. what purpose and maybe you know again only seeing an episode but you know mapping out the show

mapping out the season and mapping out the pilot the purpose of the bird watching angle of this what what is that this isn't me being like hey what's the point of that it's i can i know there there's a meaning for it it doesn't reveal itself um when you're thinking of how you want to layer your storytelling, what's the motivation behind something that just seems so detached, at least from the story in the first episode? Yeah. So I think it does pay off. I won't spoil it, but I think it does pay off in really interesting, meaningful ways. But I think it's more, you know what it is, Ryan? It's to my uncle who was a priest, he's a birdwatcher. So some of these things are, you know, when I write a character, it's really the aggregate of a lot of

details, you know, like one of the first things with Tom Pelfrey's character, that I liked was the ice cream that he would come. I don't know where it came from, but he comes in and opens a jar of ice cream, scoops it with his fingers, and eats it. And it's a little thing. But when I'm writing characters, I'm oftentimes not, you know,

I'm not always aware of the longer arc. What I'm aware of his behavior, like, oh, well, I got to get to know this person. So what's their behavior like? And, you know, I liked him smiling at the dating ad that comes on in the radio in the morning. Because as a viewer, you're going, oh, here's a guy that's sort of a bit of a romantic at heart.

He likes the idea that maybe there's somebody out there who's waiting for him. And the bird watching, to me, was it was just something that I believed Tom would do as a character. Now, again, that came from my uncles. And so once you nail down all the believable character traits and routines, then you start to go, well, how can I use that as a theme, right? I want to create the character in a meaningful,

rich way. I wanted to be true to who they are. Then let me use those things. You know, so I'm not starting with birds as a theme. I'm going, oh, I think this is something he would do. I love this idea. It's, it's a part of his routine. Then let me stretch it into a theme. Then let me carry it through as a thread and find some meaning. And I think if you, you know, as you go along and watch the show, you will find some meaning in there. How involved are you with casting considering it sounds like you have a pretty strong image of who these people are when you're writing it. On the movies, I write very little. You know, that's more of a director's thing.

The director comes in. But on the shows, you have a huge say in the casting. And, you know, we got so lucky on this one. The cast all the way through is just absolutely superb. Avey Kaufman was our casting, Dressy Cast Mayor as well. So I have a lot of say. And I feel like, you know, not only to be get amazing actors, but Ruffalo, Pelfield. the rest of the cast, just some of the best guys you could ever meet in your life.

Does it help with Pelfrey, like being where he's from? You know, not to say like New Jersey. I mean, it's so believable with him. Totally. You know, what? He's Rutgers. He's New Jersey. So, you know, again, like, PA people may think, like, we're not the same or whatever.

Maybe those from outside, but he just comes off as completely believable as this guy. And look, Ruffalo can basically do anything. so like there's probably never a concern like hey is this guy going to be able to pull it off so i don't even there's no there's no there's not a ruffalo question so i don't even have one for no no do you look you look for that though a little bit i have to i think with pelfrey i think with pelfrey he put himself on tape and true story we had um he he put himself on tape he put himself on that on tape he did the scene you were talking about earlier about the about the trash boats or who picks up your trash. And he has such an iconic laugh, Tom, that after, so I clicked on the, you know,

we get, nowadays, like, you very rarely do casting tapes in person. He sent us a tape. And I got through about a minute of it, and he laughed. And I was like, what an incredible laugh. And I was about to hit play again. I got a call from our director, Jeremiah, and he was like, have you seen Pelfrey's tape? He's our guy. He had already watched it. He's like, he is, he is the guy. And I think he was maybe like maybe the second person we auditioned Ryan and we cast him on the spot

and I think he's fantastic in the show. He's just absolutely riveting as an actor and your heart breaks the whole way through for him because he, I think the great accomplishment of Tom in the show and I think Mare, I think Kate did a similar

thing in Mare is they do terrible things and make terrible decisions but you never for seconds aren't on their side you are you constantly want them to get you know in mayor's case solve the case and tell free's case get away and and and and and that takes a real talent to achieve that I think okay so I wasn't going to ask this now and again this is a huge spoiler alert you've not seen the pilot so just give it a couple minutes um so the other thing that you do well in this is it's not just story it's not the longer suspenseful arc but it's a suspense in the

shots. Okay. And so, you know, I hesitate, but at least we've talked about some of the stuff I've worked on. So at least I feel a little bit more real to you in the audience. And that is like some of the rules. And it's not like network rules. I think there are rules more on like understanding audience habits. And we can sit there and pretend that the audiences want all these different versions of storytelling. But I don't know that that's necessarily true. And you have a decision to make. And it's clear you'd already made the decision based on knowing how your own show is going to go. but when both

Tom and Raul hit the second place they kill everybody they lose Peach Boy and there's a little boy now that changes the entire dynamic and he's like are you

my dad's friends and of course the first thing you leave us with is their decision which we don't know what to do because their masks are off he's a witness and I'm watching and I'm going there's no way because even though Pelfrey and Raoul are bad guys, they're still like better than the other bad guys. And we've already spent the day with their family. So we're going to be rooting for them and they do seem likeable. And hey, they're just killing drug dealers. So how mad

can I really be at them? And then you're like, they're not going to kill a kid. But you want to leave us with the potential option. Because you then shoot them in the car and you don't see the kids in the back seat. And then when they get back to Pelfrey's home, you shoot it facing them where it looks like they're pulling up to like the quarry perhaps to dump a body. And then finally we come back around. So like I know there is no way. First of all, you would lose the audience because it's like, so I'm supposed to give a shit

about these two guys now. Like they're awful. I don't care they were robbing drug dealers. So I can't. I'm sure it was never to like the network note. But there's some things that I have with the current network that I'm working with on the pilot. there'll be times it's like, hey, this is great, but this doesn't work because you can't

do this to your main guy this soon, because now you're asking everybody to care about him for 10 episodes, man. Everything works, but like this part doesn't work. And it's like, you know what? They're right. They're right. And this is an obvious one because it's like, hey, we can't have them kill a kid at minute 58, but, I mean, you love fucking with us along the way.

Well, I think a credit to Jeremiah, our director on that episode, who really mapped out in the ways that everything you just said, Ryan, like, oh, let's get out of that scene on a pregnant, you know, what are they going to do with the kid, right? And then we go to Tom, and as a storyteller, what you're doing is you're leaving the audience with the question out of the scene. Oh, wait, what do they do with the kid? It's carrying you through some kind of more procedural beats, right? He gets the call, you got to come out to the scene. Now that section of the story, which could be a little bit kind of mundane at times.

The procedural beats are always kind of hard to write, I feel, because the audience has seen them. But it's charged with, oh, my God, we've got to get back to what happened to the kid. So it carries you through that section. And then Jeremiah had a really lovely image where he said, you know, I want to mirror the opening shot of Robbie carrying his own son, I want to have a very, very similar image at the end with Sam. And so if you were to go back and look at those two shots, the very beginning when he picks up his son and carries him down the hallway, then we bring back a very, very similar image at the

end where he picks up Sam and holds him in his arms. And so those were very sketched out. But yes, we are giving the audience a bit of a heart attack just going, oh my God, what did they do with Sam? And then hopefully at the end of the episode, there's somewhere. whatever, release going, okay, at least he's okay. I'm scared what's happening in the house at the moment or I don't know what's happening in the house, but at least we know the boy is alive. And that's done intentionally. It could be a bit of torture, but it is done intentionally for all the reasons you laid out. Yeah, I mean, that's really, you know, whether it's somebody that works in the industry going, like, there's no way this is actually happening because that shows over.

And the audience that desperately doesn't want anything bad to happen as a kid because you feel so bad for the kid. And then again, during the procedural stuff, you see this mattress is in the basement. So that's another added layer of like, did they do something good after killing three people? Again, there's a ton of sympathy for the three people that are killed. But I'm watching and I'm going, he's done such a good job because he's still maybe planning a little seed of doubt even though so much

the audience is thinking like there's no way there's no way he did this but just the the beats of doubt and then being so relieved and this is where I think it's brilliant

so you may have known the end of the story I'm going to ask you about the end of the pilot in that I mean this is so much better than who did this how's this guy going to escape

it's how are these guys going to have this kid at their house from a murder scene. Did you know that that was the end of the pilot? Yeah, we did. And I felt like the, you know, the shot was very specific in that we wanted it to, so we knew that was the end of the pilot. And then we wanted to design a shot where you saw them go in and you lingered on the

house for a few seconds going. Oh my God. As you just said, Ryan, what must be happening in there right now, right? It's like they just walked in. It's the morning. His own kids are about to. wake up, you know, Maeve hates him already, and now he's going to have to answer to her in some way about this kid. And so we wanted it to be, okay, the kid's okay, and now they're going

in the house, but linger on the house a minute or a few seconds in this case, just for the audience to start to have the wheels turning in their mind going, my God, what must be happening in that house? What a complicated situation it is. And I felt like that was a good cliffhanger that would get people to go, well, I have to go see what the heck is going on in that house for episode two, you know? It's an all-timer, but I'm not, it's such a great cliffhanger because then the first thought I have is how is he going to have the storyline survive for a season of the witness is now living with him, but it's like, you also can't just keep a kid. I know, I know. How is this going to work? And I don't know, you know, you know, I haven't

talked about it. I think you sent me one of the episodes, but I kind of wanted to wait on this whole thing. All right. So a couple more things before we finish here. How bad did HBO want you to figure out a sequel to Mayor East Town? You know, honestly, you know, yes, they did, and they were actually wonderful about it in the way that I think they understood the issues with mayor season two, which for me were what could possibly happen in this small town? again, what could be another crime that would involve all this, all this character's friends and family, right? That's what I always felt worked about, Mayor, was it was a woman investigating a crime that involved all the people who were closest to her. And the idea that in the wake of a terrible tragedy, horrific crime, another crime come along in this town.

Now, I have said, and, you know, I have said, I actually think mayor is a story. that if you were to come back in a couple years, five years, six years, who knows if audiences would care about Mayor by then. But I actually think that character, if you were able to revisit her in a couple years or if you gave it enough time, it's almost better because you've built up other things that have happened in her life. You could believe another crime would come into this small community and involve people she cared about. So that, I think, is actually a story that you could revisit in a couple years and HBO was like hey I think in the immediate aftermath of mayor they would have loved another one but they were also really aware of the limitations of that

type of story you know yeah I remember talking about it too at the time and it was like and I don't want I was just like that's going to be so hard it's going to yes I know I know did you did you outline anything though I'm sure there was probably a couple hours spent on yeah no totally and you know and I think that, you know, I think what's hard about mayor is, it's a character I love. She's so, it's a joy to write mayor because she's a character that's, you know,

she's so complicated and she's so servic and funny and mean to her family and kind to stranger. She's just this constantly hard to pin down person. So as a writer, you feel a certain a freedom

in writing her. So, dude, I sketched out hundreds of scenes with Mayor and Gene Smart, Mayor and Lori, Mayor and I, but I think that's just a symptom of me just being a guy whose brain is constantly firing at all times. But even now, even now,

I feel so close to that character. If you were to say to me, what's Mayor doing? I could come up with a scene in two seconds because it's just a character that's never left me, you know? Do you think Kate signing on for that kind of leads to like anticipation

for the next Inglesby script? where now people who are like, hey, I saw what happened with mayor, like, I'm in. Yeah, I think, you know, it's funny. That is a character that resonates with people. Like, even we did the press tour on past, so many people still ask me about mayor. And it's a character that's resonated in ways I really never even expected. But I think there was also a mother-daughter dynamic there with Gene that people really respected. and certainly Kate, you know, her performance, her joining the show has allowed me to have access to actors that, you know, I never would have imagined.

Even getting Ruffalo, you know, he had seen Mare when we talked and he loved that show. And I think he felt like he was in safe hands because he had seen Mare. And so, you know, it was a wonderful experience in my life. I'm incredibly grateful that, you know, to have Kate and have her performance in that show. And also Julianne Nicholson is just one of the all-time greats in my books. She just got nominated. I think she wanted an Emmy last over the weekend again. But to work with actors like that, it makes up for a multitude of sins as a writer, Ryan.

Yeah. It must be fun, just knowing. It must be fun just going like, well, whatever I write down, like, Ruffalo probably figure it out. And he does in every scene. And then you let him, you know, like another thing, too. don't be afraid to let the actor have fun in some of the stuff. And the scene where he gets hammered, you know, it's like, all right, we're going to get you out of your comforts and then you get to play.

Totally. Just kind of a weird drunk scene with another guy. No other guy's like, cool, when you got hammered and started asking me to dance with you, that was fun. Let's hang out again soon. The weekly whodunit of mayor was really fun. And I'm excited to do this again. And, you know, there's probably.

friends of yours being like, I have to wait a week, still not quite understanding. Do you think your storytelling benefits from getting a break? You know, I do because I think that there's a density to this storytelling, I think. And maybe some people will like it, some people won't like it. But it's dense. Even when we were editing, you know, the episodes, you felt like, wow, a lot happens in each episode. It's not like, you know, we all watch shows and sometimes you get through an episode

of a show and you go, wait, I watched, you know, it was a 42-minute episode and one thing happened, then I could have skipped that episode and probably go into the next one. Ask is pretty, it's pretty dense in that way. And I think in a good way, I think in a way where an audience will feel like, wow, I got a full meal. I learned something about the characters. The plot moved in three or so ways that we zig and zag a few times each episode. You learn things about the case and you're left wanting to know what happens.

And so I think a show like this, I think benefits from that pause and having a moment to go, okay, let me regroup in the wake of that. Let me think about those characters a little bit. I also think it's a show, Ryan, that. is about the characters. And I think selfishly, the longer you get to spend with the characters, I think the better the show becomes.

And by that, I mean, all right, I met Tom Brandis. I met Robbie. I'm going to spend another week kind of having them on my mind a little bit, whether they're actively on my mind or passively they're there in some way. And now I'm going to spend another hour with them. And another week goes by.

I think this is a show that if we've done our job and I hope we have, it lingers in your mind, not because of the reveals or the plot beats, but because you got to spend time with people that you really cared about. And I think time, like any relationship, the longer you get to know someone, the more meaningful it becomes. And I'd say selfishly, that's what I want. I want an audience to spend as much time with these people as we possibly can. I can't wait to spend more time with them every Sunday night on HBO. Again, TASC, Brad Ingalls-B with another hit.

I'm just fired up for you, man. You know, I appreciate all your help over the years. And I can't wait to see how you untangle this mess. All right. Thanks so much for having me all, Ryan. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari, 355 cabriolet.

What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every tour you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. so now you know what's possible let me tell you what's required life advice life advice rr at gmail dot com don't forget ladies week you can put it in the subject you serious well matter okay this is this is the second i've heard i didn't know this was like a bit that went from you know they put two pods together but we got a couple emails

now we're going to follow through on it i don't know would a real ladies week just be off the air and just do them a favor if they're in the car with their significant others would that be the real favor for ladies' week. Just tell me. We're just taking a break. We're just taking a break this week. This one's for you. Hey, I'm doing a tails from the couch,

ladies. So our gift to you is to be put it after the interview. There you go. I would love to see the data on. Well, maybe I wouldn't want to see the data on that. I don't know. Whatever. What, the mail fee a breakdown of?

No. Tails from the couch. That's easy. Like on Instagram, you can look at it. I think it's like 96% men. It's just not enough thirst traps out there. I may post one from St. Bart's just to get things moving.

You need more private, like PJ pictures, you know. Private jet stuff? Yeah. Just because you fly private doesn't mean keep it a secret. That's one of my favorite captions. It was a good one. Probably it's a Hall of Famer right there. Yeah.

Although I think I may have lost a potential, a couple of inquiries on that alone. for people who thought it was serious, but it's okay. It means we never were going to get along in the first place. Yeah. Weeding people out. We don't need. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm just not a private jet status, so I just don't know. But I just, I still think, every now and then somebody will hit me up and be like, I'm like, I'm by myself a lot, man. I just don't. I'm getting, like, my Instagram algorithm thinks that, like, I want to charter private jets now. I don't know. I never prompted anything, never searched anything. It's like, you know, you could secure like up to four seats on a 12-seater private jet.

And I'm like, what in the hell? And then like I've been getting it to last. Usually Instagram is pretty on point. Like I've said something. And there it is or, you know, just my lifestyle. It kind of aligns. And this, I'm just getting bombarded with like private jet bookings. I don't know what that's about.

Not going to do it, though, obviously. Yeah. Hold on out. Yeah. Hold now. It was like when I did one of the wheels up, like, sit down fireside chats and i was like we're getting a couple hours out of this what are we what are we looking at here let me know when to look at my account yeah yeah because like

mike and mike were on that train van pelt was on that train and they were doing stuff they were like legitimately doing things for them and then there was like a super bowl event i went to and Mike and Mike were hosting it for wheels up or something and I'm like this is the next level it just didn't work out that's all right it's fine yeah some rides from Mike and Mike back from the Super Bowl you guys going to Canton again it's like damn for the still a show not doing well huh like why'd you want to go to Canton I don't know Hall of Fame game in I love the first preseason game that's when you you know sitting there with a depth chart who's that guy who's a temple i remember him all right um it sounds like you want the floor here

kyle we have some room so we're gonna go oh you know it was really it was like 10 minutes before i got in this pod you ever like look in the mirror and you're like you're fucking up dude get your shit together it's probably been like 36 to 48 hours of just like a poor decisions nothing like life altering works fine everything but like i've eaten like this fucking grocery store ramen twice in a row like the last two days absolutely running through me my office is a mess on the second day of making this stupid ramen i'm like i'm uh i was gonna put this i had this spoon that's got this you know like shit i got food on it or whatever and i wanted to put it down and i put it down on top of the nice fucking thank you note that mike and his

wife sent me and i'm just like just because i didn't want to put it on the counter and wipe it off it's like little thing like i had a moment right there and i was like this is the shit i'm talking about dude i'm talking myself my wife's in the living room like what i'm like nothing nothing It's just like I've just been making poor choices. Mike sent me a really nice thank you note. Thank you. I know Mike wrote it because his handwriting is just like mine. So anyway, it just, it ends today.

It ends today. Although I did have the leftover ramen this morning and I'm expected to pay for that later too. It ends now. I've just had a rough 24th, rough 48 and I just sort of needed to want to to apologize to Mike in a way, but also I'm really apologizing to myself. Thank you for the thank you know, Mike. Dude, no worry. I'm more concerned you made ramen yesterday

and then ate it this morning. Dude, I'm just, I'm not proud of the last 48, but I think part of being a man is just looking at yourself in the mirror. It's like 8 a.m., man. What are you doing? I was like leftover, bro,

and it was spicy and I feel terrible already. I feel like my face is redder than usual. Like, let's just, enough's enough. But it's behind you now. Played golf awesome yesterday. Yeah, played golf awesome. Maybe best ever. What did you shoot?

Well, we're not to that point. Yeah, but I will tell you that I, here's what I, here's what I text in my dad. Two legit pars, three bogeys, and a couple atrocious holes for nine, not bad. How many balls to lose? Four. Yeah. And then I actually would find, and then I found the last one on, you know, on the way back. And I was like, all right, that's not a lost ball.

Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of putting stuff behind you, what's going on back there in your room? Is that a humidifier and a Dyson fan? Yeah, yeah. I got an extra Dyson. I got an extra Dyson fan. Where's the way do you see a PS5?

There's no PS5. What's right in front of the Dyson fan? That's a, that's a humidifier. Yeah, it's like a PS5. My mom sent me a humidifier, and it's a humidifier that like breaks into fucking eight pieces. And it's so annoying. And she's, I've just been lying to her that I've been running the humidifier for the last two years. So.

Neither of those are one thing. Right. Now the, you know, the thing about the Dyson fans is they need an $80 filter that really gets filled up, especially if you got like, you know, rabbit particles or whatever, but like whatever, it just fills up. And the next thing you know, it's like, I got a subscription for $80 things and I have two Dyson fans. Those were a gift from back in the day.

Shout out to Dyson. It was a one shining pod thing we had going on. But I have a vast. There's filters on those things? Dude. Filters. It used to be two part filters. Now they wizened up and they made them an all in one.

But it was like, I just couldn't imagine. I ran it until it stopped running without a filter. it because I was just like what happens and then I cleaned it out and I'm just it's unplugged in the corner now. What's going on with those sheets of paper on the couch? Those are actually I found these things at a not a farmer's market. What do you call it a fucking? Paper market? No, no. It's like, yeah, flea market. There you go. And they're like cool space things, but like I have to get frames and I just don't want to forget them. Listen, I'm telling you, today is where it ends. I'm going to pick everything up. I looked at.

Like when I opened the door to the office, this my little office in here, I looked at it. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. It's like, that's strike three motherfucker, you know. So I'm going to sign off and, I'm going to hit the pavement. You're really giving it to yourself today. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's necessary sometimes.

First day of the rest of your life. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Well, congrats, so we're all good now? I feel like you said what you need to say to Wargon. We could probably read. We could probably read.

And thank you as well for the note. It was very nice. You got it, dude. Thanks for the gifts. Yeah. You know, you guys don't got to thank me for the thank yous. Well, I didn't send out thank you notes. I said I was going to, you know.

You didn't do any? A couple of the great aunts were like, well, wondering if you ever got our gifts. And I just don't know how to handle that. Email. Circling back. You say, oh, you got to have an app. You don't have the app. That's not.

That's my dad. My grandma's really old. She went to a wedding, gave this woman a gift, never got a thank you note so now every time this other woman posts on facebook she responds hey have you have you found time to send that thank you note yet oh my god she just goes right at you huh she doesn't care no she gives no fucks dude facebook is like a wild place like people just sometimes like when people use facebook as like google it's like oh my god it's unbelievable my grandmother will do what she first got an instagram like she basically got it to follow bill

and then she'll just like Bill Simmons and not Instagram it was Twitter it was just she just tweeted Bill Simmons like wait no that's I knew a guy back in the day

who did something similar he was like he was interested in this girl or whatever and he goes to look her up in the search bar but instead he just types her name

jump off a bridge in the status and it sent and didn't know so her name was just on his ball for a while and buddies were texting

like hey dude you got to you know what's going on here. It's kind of a situation and everyone knows what happened. Yeah, not great. To be fair, that was his status. Yes, searching for Hillary, whatever, very clear at that point. Yeah, this is what I'm doing right now. Check out my farm. Uh, okay, a couple updates. We've got time. Remember our Toronto stand-up comedy guy? Mm-hmm. Sounds like no. I think I might not have been there. I think I do. Okay.

Hey, guys, I hope this message finds you all in good health and great spirits. First off, thank you for reading my email last October. It meant a lot when Ryan said he was proud of me and called me brave for chasing stand-up at 47 years old. The encouragement from all of you gave me a real boost. Remember this guy was going to move to Toronto? Yeah, yeah. So we've been in Toronto for nine months, having moved from Northern Ontario, it's been incredible. I walk out of my building on the King Street, look left and boom, CN Tower right there.

We've never been happier. It took a little while to get things rolling comedy-wise, mostly because I first needed to lock down work as a massage therapist and build a steady client roster. Once that was in place, I dove in a stand-up with both feet. For the past month, I've been hitting two or three open mics a week. And my new set, Why Dogs Are Better Than Kids, Playing the Hits Right there. That's a winner. We just ranked Dogs and Kids on Monday show.

So, yeah, it's going over surprisingly well. based on the podcast comments. I'm not sure Sir Rudy would be a fan. The whole experience has been amazing networking the show is the stand-up drug. Honestly, if anyone listening has something they've always wanted to do, I can confirm, do it. Doesn't matter how old you are. You know what? Let's give this guy some love.

I posted my five-minute set on Instagram and Threads app. Well, wait, does he, I honestly think he's fine with this if he's trying to get a little shine out of this. Is he fishing for a repost? Yeah, I think he's looking. is headed. Yeah. No, but I mean, just a shout out. We're just so used to never sharing any information and going out of our way, but I shrouded in secrecy. Yeah, but I think if this guy's a stand-of-comic, like, why not, right? So at Mark Kosek, that's Mark the normal way, K-O-S-S-E-K, if you're curious and feel judgy. Don't worry. You will now be judged, man. All right,

a completely different note. Months ago, a listener asked you guys about what bed size works best for apartments. I know the debate got resolved, but there was one option. I didn't hear you mention adult bunk beds uh you're right we didn't mention that sounds like he's got to do type five i didn't even know they existed until recently when my wife and i bought one a queen over queen picks attached oh my god this guy has adult bunk beds huh i've only ever seen it in stepbrothers where it was like put together with two by fours and hockey sticks like i can't imagine what It would even look like. Yeah.

Although queens, you don't have a lot of room for activities. We got two queens. Yeah. Our king was eating up the whole room, so we joked about bunk beds, then found out they're real. Six weeks in, best sleep of our lives. She takes the top bunk. I take the bottom. The dogs insist.

And yes, plenty of space for all the usual fun stuff. Sex. Yeah. Bonus, new things to grab onto if things get a bit overly rambunctious to out. Kyle, you're right. This is open or is closed. Yeah, this is good. Go on.

Nobody's doing that. Search your life for material. You've got a treasure trove. I just don't, the whole reason you get bunk beds would be to like, if you don't have enough room for two people to sleep. You've got adult-sized bunk beds. There is enough room for two people to sleep. Let me ask you this, though.

Just want to say thanks to the podcast. Anyway, surprisingly solid advice givers. Thanks. Wishing you continue to success. Okay. Yeah. Wait, did you say how big is it? Do you give height weight at the beginning again?

Because the only reason I ask is like, you know what? Maybe we can find his old email. We have a king and I've just, you know, I'm 5'10. My wife is, you know, 5, 4, 5.5. So, I mean, we're not like big people. But I feel like I've never really struggled to have room sleeping in a king. Well, he said the king was eating up the room. It didn't say that it was like, small room, by the way.

Small room. Yeah. And they have tall ceilings. Yeah, I don't know. God, I wonder what that would be. That's like one of the. those things you'd hope you'd never have to like try to think what another example of like going from a king to something lesser like after you've been used to it that's one of the things I would

you know I'd have trouble with I think but if you're solo I think I think moving to Manhattan Beach to Hartford hmm all right I'm just trying to think of something I'm not saying that's the right one yeah I mean that's like a whole life thing but yeah okay sure yeah what like would you guys be like embarrassed to have people like hey this is our house whatever and you go home and you have two queen bump beds in your master people start asking questions we don't sleep together anymore it's not weird we just don't like to sleep together yeah i mean we did that like a month ago about those you know the old-timey you know beds bed by bed you know the room with the two beds bed side to side i guess that's a i guess a chic version of that i don't i don't know what's something

like that worth too i feel like it looks really nice and i do think there should be some sort of movement. I don't know how many years away we are from it, but whoever decided to sleep in the same bed thing, just morons. I mean, we're talking about sod houses and one-room cabins, you know, so I understand then, but, you know, we've advanced in a bunch of areas as a society, and I think you should normalize people sleeping in separate beds. Yeah, sure. This guy might be on to something. I like farting in bed at night. Can't do it anymore. No? Big problem. That's a That's a debate, and that's a whole show. I don't want to do it.

I don't. I don't subscribe to it. You don't subscribe to you, not farting in bed, you're saying? Yeah, I just let it go. I did that. I can't even say it. I can't say it. Let's get another email.

I'm sure enough. This guy's 6-1-217. We're able to find the email. 6-1-2. Okay. I was not familiar with your frame. That's a lot of room for a solo queen guy, 6-1. Yeah.

Good for you. Okay. Another update. Are we going to do just updates today? Now we've got a couple. We just have time. So let's use it. For Kyle, a long story about my wife came home with a bunny that was the runt of the litter and getting picked on by an older sibling at her parents home. She and the kids absolutely love it. And am I surprised, none of our three dogs bother it because I think it freaks them out. Anyway, it's. Freaks me out too, man. If one dies, are you going to tell us? yeah I'll tell you okay maybe they all the probably fucking text you first dude honestly it's like the celebration emoji you'll never

how many do you have 12 we're down to four we're down to four maybe we could do some sort of graphic we're like the four bunnies and then you know heaven forbid we lose one and then it's we have a graphic come up

and then one of the bunnies just turns like gray in the other four fades off yeah like infinity stones or infinity war style Get graphics people on that. Anyway, it is in the home and a two-story bunny house and not going anywhere. My question is, would you travel with a bunny?

The kids have fall breaks soon. We'd likely get a cabin to just enjoy nature. Fall break already? This is unbelievable dynamic here for the school. Get some kayaking in, some hiking. My wife is wanting to take the bunny in a pet carrier to stay with us. But when we get there, it will want to be loose like it is in our house. house. It seems like a pain. And even though it has a litter box, it doesn't use it all

the time. And the messes are tiny and easy to clean, but we have a large main floor that's all tile. These cabins typically have really old hardwood floors, so I don't want to get fine for potentially making spots on these floors or risking it. Getting out in the wild. The question is, do you vacation with rabbits? You're at your fucking mind guy? No. No. I'd bring a buddy to the cabin to lose it. That's what I'd do. But no. We should let these guys out. Let's stretch your legs. You think about it. Seems like the only humane option.

We should all be enjoying the outdoors. I think the rabbit in the car, depending on how long the ride is, you're just signing up for an awful, awful time. So this to me is a no. And you're right. Like imagine the place you're running. It's like, yeah, three kids.

Really cool. Ben a rabbit. Who says yes to that? Like, oh, yeah, cool. Totally. I'm psyched you're bringing a rabbit. Let it run around our house. I'm sure it won't destroy any of the wood fixtures that we've spent making this rustic cabin inviting.

I'm sure everything will be just the way we left it. How often, Kyle, are the rabbits like out of the cage when you're around? Are they mostly just staying there? But I tell you what, last night I was like getting myself ready for bed. And my wife just throws this rabbit on the bed. Immediately my throat starts getting itchy. I'm doing that thing. I just left.

I watched Silicon Valley on the couch. like two hours and came back when I felt like it was safe. I'm not trying to get between you and the misses, but like if you're, if she's able to do that to you, I feel like you should be able to fart in the bed. Like that feels like a good compromise. I'm going to be honest. Yeah, me too, but I guess I'll say it. I farted like

into her the other night. We were like butt to butt and it just like totally traveled. And I was, even she like, I thought she was asleep and she immediately got up. It was like, what the hell was that man? It's like, I'm so sorry. I wasn't going to say it, but I think we're back to zero. We're even.

I think that was. That's fair. Anyway. We have another, I guess that was technically an advice one, but this guy's just double header. Go ahead. Real quick, because I'm, you know, I only asked about the cage thing because like, yeah,

I thought rabbits are kind of mostly supposed to stay in the cage and if this one's just kind of out and about, especially with three dogs, that kind of like blows my mind. But speaking of Instagram content that I don't know where it's coming from, there's like a ton of people who just have like wild animals as pets. Like, have you seen this?

Like, I saw, there's this one girl. She did this video where she's trying to, like, show her morning routine. And she's got, like, three little monkeys that just live with her. And I'm like, how is this legal? And she's, like, putting her coffee together and she has to put her hand over everything because the monkeys just put their hands and stuff. And I'm like, why did you, like, this is, why did you choose this? This sounds miserable.

You can't do anything. You can't leave containers open. Again, are they even legal? They're like lemurs. I don't even know what kind of monkey they are. State by state, I think. and it's just like that sounds like and again people have like pet alligators and I've seen all this content on Instagram I'm just wondering like what is this like a new

thing where people just get crazy animals to start Instagram accounts probably yeah probably pay for itself with the you know probably would if you if you could stick with it long enough yeah it's looking like it's a state to state thing so it sounds like did you guys look into it I have enough animals so no again cat not a cat guy yeah so we're looking at uh 14 states for monkeys yeah is florida on the list no wow there's four states you can just get one no and this is no documentation you don't even need to do like the SPCA registers okay the other 10 states you need a permit so rudy you can get one and in Connecticut if you get a permit.

I think I'm good. Thanks. Well, if you don't want a cat anymore, maybe, I'm just kidding. Kind of surprises me to Montana. You can't just get a monkey. I feel like there, you can. There are no rules. No, who's going to check in on you, you know? North Dakota permit, South Dakota permit,

Wyoming permit, Nebraska, no permit, Kansas permit, Oklahoma, no permit. Texas is just a hard no. Hmm. like why would Mississippi be a permit state in Louisiana be like no no way like did that that lady that got her face ripped off by the was it an orangutan like was that that was a pet right that somebody else's pet

I think that's like I thought it was her own pet maybe it was her own pet if anybody's interested pet monkey legal states 2025 again those are new new pieces of dot com or what if dot org no it's a different but it's just the first thing that came up I like how Connecticut was like Sure If you live in New England

We want to own a monkey Where your place Yeah, this is your spot Yeah, you don't see that a lot We got pizza and monkey availability But a permit Yeah West Virginia is

West Virginia is a permit Yeah How would they even know Tighten it up down there West Virginia Apparently again if you're looking for exotic Apparently foxes are trying to become domesticated they're like they're trying yeah they're like looking at what dogs

trying to get in the house hey this sounds like a pretty good gig like how do we we got like 10 you know 100,000 years of evolution we were we're pretty far behind we can get that hback over there yeah give me a shot uh I can't believe some of those f1 cats yeah we can move on I just like some of those f1 cats where it's like like one generation for being like those savanna cats I mean those things are terrifying very cool though. Yeah, I don't have the permit data on that. I'll look into it for Friday's show. Here we go. Dating in the age of hat fishing. Hi, guys. Hope I made it in time for Ladies Week. We're just reading it. 23, 510, 165. No gym stats. Just a casual runner. Nothing to consult Oregon about. Okay. Longtime life advice listener. Shout out to my ex-Charlie for putting me onto the show. We're cool and he still listens. All right. Thanks, Charlie. Who knows? Who knows what this email could do? I'll keep it short and sweet.

As a single lady on the lookout, I've definitely got my radar up for hat fishing. Urban dictionary definition of needed. Hat fishing is a practice from him purposely to seize a potential romantic partner by wearing a hat on every day to hide his rapidly receding airline. My friends and I joke about it all the time,

but it's now become real. I'm currently seeing a new guy and we're on Hangout number three and the hat still hasn't come off. So you've never seen him? He hasn't like taken the hat off to readjust. You don't even know the shape of his dome. That's crazy.

Yeah. The edges look promising. A little stuff to be desired. Yeah. I remember back in the wild just sitting at a table with some girls and I was with some buddies and, you know, just chat it up. And I had a hat on, but I just like wearing hats. I don't think, I mean, at this point, the kick is sort of up. And she, one of the girls was like, wait, you're not bald, are you?

And I was like, ugh. And I wasn't. I didn't have a shaved head then and I just took the hat off and she was like oh thank god well you know it's too dark and there to notice that's like insane divot yeah yeah but it was just funny because my buddy was just dying laughing that you took your hat off with like full confidence like nothing was wrong and she was like oh my god she's like I just she's like it's like it's like whatever half fishing is a great man I don't like that it is a good name yeah I don't like when I learned about man spreading I was like that's ridiculous

but also great name hilarious name man spreading is a good one fucking hilarious name man explaining i think went a little too far right it's like i'm just giving you directions let's see here yeah i don't know i'm kind of on her side i mean if it's something that's important we all have things that are important not important uh it sounds like this guy's hiding something to be clear i'm not here judging a man by his hair alone but at a certain point I'd like to see the full picture before things get serious. Here's my dilemma. Is there a smooth, non-awkward way

to ask a man to take off his hat or am I doomed to wait until it comes off naturally, possibly months down the line? Dude, months? Yeah. I just picture like is your option just to like invite him back to the house, you know, obviously a little hookup time and like he takes off all of his clothes except

for his hat. He's like ready to go. You could do one. Remember those like rom-com scenes where like they open the door and they like mall each other? And the next first thing She just goes for the hat, pushes it off, like an offensive guard, just like getting it. Whoa. She says I don't mind hair or no hair. I just want a complete overview and a glimpse of the whole head before I commit.

Trusting the Podcounsel that got me through this. You're right. I mean, if it's still on, and he says, I just love the Dodgers. Well, let me ask this. Like, would it be crazy for three dates if you haven't seen a girl without makeup yet? Would that be crazy? No, no. Okay.

Not at all. All right. Well, there's kind of, you know, beards and hats is kind of what dudes have, right? It's really, well, there are two things. Yeah, but the beard is like, if the guy has a beard, he's going to have a beard. True. I mean, is there just a place you can go where you literally cannot wear a hat? I think the swim date is exactly it.

But now we're going to worry about climate. Yeah, you're getting a little late. one of people it's like a like a bald cat like a swimming cap on he's like I take this right take this really serious what about like some malls have those like those big fan rooms where you can like fake like your skydiving what about that you got a big big like tri-state mall near you that'd be yeah roller coaster something like that go to six flags

bungee bungee jump thing like obviously you have to jump off a bridge but there's the ones where you can like do it when you're like on a trampling or something something where the hat is a bad idea would be disappointing if he somehow pulled off keeping a hat on during one of those things so damn but if he has like lightning bolt tattoos and he just was like I was super into corn for a while there I don't know if she has any male friends but maybe the next time

they go out she could say like can you just go up and start some shit with this guy and like slap his hat off and be like you got you want to go loser then you can see how he handles a tense situation one if he's protective and then you'll see him without the hat yeah that seems like a lot though here we go here we go i got it buy him a hat he's got it he's got to do a switch if his IQs remotely above average he's gonna know know what try it on right we're early on we're early on in the dating he doesn't want to be like weird about it like you you got him a gift he probably likes the idea of it you you want to see him put it on i don't

know. She has a right to know, man. Yeah. Just like I'd want to know if, you know, eventually you're going to want to know some stuff. And I think wanting to know whether or not, and she's even saying it doesn't matter either way, but her wanting to know whether this guy's get just, you know, website under construction situation going on up there.

I think that's, yeah, it's the same way of like, if you went on a date with a girl, and she was just wearing like a puffer coat jacket the whole time. You have no idea what you're looking at, you know? She just never takes her jacket off. Like, it's not like it's a deal breaker, but it's like, yeah,

I'd like to actually figure out what's going on here. I thought the makeup was good enough. All right. Yeah. A puffer would be. It's like it's hot inside. I think you would know then, though, because then you would just go,

okay, it's ridiculous. Well, Ryan, you just said just like I'd like to know if, and then you stopped. What would it be that? what would the version for you be um i i don't even necessarily have something specific i don't i just don't like how we're supposed to pretend that any of this is like shallow

when we like what we like and there's things we don't like and it's it's okay so yeah subjective exactly yeah like trust me i know when i can tell it's like all right you know you know you know all right, you know, this girl wants some Legends of the Fall deal. It's not going to work out for me. Brad Pitt. Yeah. Okay. I guess we still have time.

Here's just a random one. Do you guys think the three of you, oh, the four of you? So that's me, Kyle Surty, and Wargon, misspelling, but it's great. Could tackle Derek Henry while he was running in the open field. Okay. I think so. Goodfield. No way.

If all four of us are like a unit and he's running at us. Well coached. So maybe we could sacrifice Sir Rudy and Wargon like head on and we just try to grab up an ankle each, but I don't know. I wouldn't I wouldn't put a fan dole bet on that. This is similar to the to the gorilla thing and a hundred guys. It's like one of us, probably two of us are going to have to really take a beating initially. I think is you and Wargon.

I think you have to face him head on, and then Ryan and I both have to focus. We would do the least damage, I'd be like... Well, I know, but I think what we're with the real actual... Just muck it up a little. Yeah. Yeah, just like throw yourself at his legs and see if you could slow him down slightly. I think if we each really focused on one, like, leg, and we could both...

I think, yeah, and I think if you, if we just know where he's going to be headed, because you guys are the, you know, in his, like, line of sight, but I don't know. I'm not very confident about it. So, like, the scenario is, like, where to line back? is right he gets through the line and it's just the four of us versus him because i see like a lot of those guys you know they're running side by side with him and he's just got the stiff arm going if that's the case there's zero chance like i'm not keeping up with him i'm not certainly going to get a

hands on if he can stiff arm me but if we're running he's running at us and we're running at him and it's just four v one like we yeah we could probably just be bowling two of us could be you know like bowling balls to his bowling pin and try to just trip him up a little bit so you guys could jump on his back and maybe do something you're saying this is like an oklahoma Adrel and we're just waiting. Yeah, it's like, no go home to drill. Yeah. Well, it's sort of like a car, right?

If you're, you have to be running too. Otherwise, you're going to get more hurt. So you got to, you know, you should be going top speed, buddy. But I'm just saying, I think, I think the two larger of the four dudes should be probably going one, one leg each. But other than that, like I certainly wouldn't jump on his back. I feel like that would be a recipe for disaster. You would just carry it for a while.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe coordinated, but we'd have to want it. And I don't know that the four was wanted out of it. Yeah. You have thoughts on this work on or what? You got a camera on? I think we could do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. We'd all go low, though. So it's like half of us are probably just going to miss. Yeah. Do we get one try? I mean, yeah, it's an open field thing, right?

I mean, it would be like, uh, because yeah, there's always the case that we just for $100,000 dollars tackled Derek Henry in the open field. Now, look, if it was him standing five feet, well, let's just say five yards, right? it gets it Derek Henry with ahead of speed getting up to 21 miles an hour and like open field yes I think so yeah open field like that's what I'm thinking of is like he's got this 20 yard head start towards us and he has his agility I mean he's knocking over I mean Bishop that safety like maybe I'm the same side I don't know what he weighs so I would say that my weight or whatever he's flicking the guys my size away

and they're half my age and also pro athletes so there's that part of it so if he has a head star I think there's like no chance if you said okay he has to start five yards in front of us and we're well coached

that's what I'm thinking we're well coached yeah we got saving on our side he's like yeah I think that's the scenario I'm thinking yeah certainly if he gets like

if it's a kickoff and we're like running down on kickoff the four of us like there's zero chance but we're gonna we're gonna a break, contain. We're not going to. Who's the wedge buster?

No one. No. But if it's, yeah, but if you're just like, hey, five yards in front of you and the four of us are here, like, I think there's a shot. I do. Cool.

There's no way anyone in the audience thinks that we have a shot, though. No, no. I think I'm the least hopeful. That's the biggest dude. No, Kyle's bigger than I am. You've seen more than all of us. So, you know. Kyle's defensive player of the week that one time, though.

Yeah, I was. I like your odds with that. Thank you. Wargon, what do you think you would try to do? Would you be okay if it's like, hey, you're going first? Yeah, yeah, I'd be okay with that. I'd be okay with that. There's a cash fries.

If there's no cash fries, you're out, right? But we're talking to like life-changing money, maybe. I did a story in college where I just had the Penn State middle linebacker tackle me. I think I saw that video. I think you sent that to me. Yeah, yeah. What was his name? Mike Hull?

He got drafted by the Dolphins. What was the pitch? So you were a real journalist back in the day. Oh, yeah, hard hitting. It was just like a profile on him. It was right before draft weekend. And I was like, it'd be cool if my stand-up was just like talking and then he just tackles me.

I put a GoPro on him. I can send that around. It's good stuff, yeah. Did you send that resume tape out? Yeah, it's on the real. It's on the demo reel. Did you set up some mats that you got tackled into? or were you just like...

He made me set up the mats. He wouldn't do it if I didn't set up mats. Okay. Did he have a towel out or no? No. Did it hurt? Uh, it hurt a little bit. I had a bit of bruising, but it's not like, not crazy.

Hmm. Did you guys become... Than a, than a, like, shoulder tackle, right? More of a classic tackle. Yeah. Good for him. Yeah. Were you guys good friends and you got invited all the cool football parties after for the rest of your

college life? We weren't good friends. We met at the bar. We were just, like, doing shots together. And I was like, hey, dude. How about this cool story? He was like, whatever. Also, have you heard of an espresso martini?

So wait, Wargon, I don't... Initially, the plan on-air TV. No. I always wanted to be behind the scenes. That was always the goal. But this was like, I was taking a class that was basically just like a newscast. So I pitched the story.

I did it. what kind of grade you get on yeah you did oh i that was a joke of a class everybody got an a yeah the comms degree is you showed up and participated you were getting an a hell yeah that's not the pen state standard i'm i found a couple of those classes over at pot stay i'll tell you i sniff those out i had one it was on um like the history of africa it was all online rhetoric of the black church that was my that was my joy right there rhetoric of the black church every test we had one test a week the answer was always d Every single question, D.

What? Come on. And so I've got 100% obviously against the final week. It was one of the athlete classes. I forgot to take the final. So I ended up with a C in the class. That's crazy. How do you forget to take the final?

They made it due Wednesday of finals week. I figured I had until Sunday. Wow. Well, you couldn't have just put down 20 Ds and you've been done? I could have. I just never did. Okay. And everybody knew.

But me, apparently. well you knew the answers you just didn't know the time exactly yeah just call the guy and be like can I take it right now over the phone well you don't have the professor like 1 a.m. I feel good about it email like 1 a.m. no go. I used to love asking for extensions college. I mean instead of just doing it uh yeah just going hey uh deal with some stuff I have this reoccurring dream that I have that I have this paper do that I just have not written yet

and it's always due like the next day I've had this job I haven't been college since when I graduate 2010 it's been 15 years and I wake up and I'm like shit I like I'm like in a you know I'm sweating and I'm like damn it I got to figure this thing out I'm like wait everybody has you're 37 years old yeah it doesn't go away it's crazy yeah I don't know I started trying to figure out a way to like have the dream stop I was like do I go back and get a master's degree or something do well and study, you know, because now I think I'm a little more buttoned up, obviously. Like, is there a way, like, why are you really passionate about you want to get a law degree? No, I want to stop having the dreams.

You try spicy ramen before bed. I've been fine these last two nights. And after bad, it sounds like. And the morning and night, yeah. Yeah, end goes. Okay, that'll do it for the show today. Thanks to Serrudi, Wargon, Kyle, Jonathan Frius. We are a video podcast on the Spotify app and, of course, on YouTube as well.

Ron Roussela podcast, Ringers Spotify. They were going to name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it, so they named me Michael Jared. Must be 21 on older and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 1815. plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-HELP-HELP.com. Call 1-88-7-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-7-7-7 or

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