The Ryen Russillo Podcast - CFB: What Matters and What Doesn't, Plus NBA Talk With Steve Ceruti | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: November 8, 2019

Russillo reacts to the CFB rankings (4:35) before he is joined by his former ESPN producer Steve Ceruti, who now cohosts 'Scal and Pals' on Radio.com. They discuss transitioning from production to on-air talent, NBA lists, and more (18:08). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's going on? This is the Ryan Russillo podcast. My name is Ryan. I host it. And today I'm back in my old stomping grounds, about a 36 hour stop in Boston, had to take care of, well, as they used to say, TCB, taking care of business. Nothing vague, nothing cryptic. It's actually nice to be here. And even though it's a little cold, it's kind of cool to feel the seasons again. Although people are like, yeah, we'll stick around for a little bit longer. You're soft now. I am soft. I'm not tough. A lot of my personal best numbers are not being posted to Instagram lately, but I just feel good. I feel good walking around the place. It's kind of funny because this is starting to sound a little bit like I'd open into a standup routine here, but I just feel good. I feel good walking around the place. It's kind of funny because this is starting to sound a little bit like I'd open it to a standup routine here, but

I checked in with one of my buddies. I go, you know, I'm just walking around. I'm taking it all in. It's my second time that I've been here, you know, not that long ago the other time. And I had a great weekend and it was great to see everybody. And I'm running into some people here now and people are just awesome and being really nice. I go, I don't know why I've had such a hard time with Boston when I was younger. Because I didn't really love it when I lived here, even though everybody outside of Boston thinks of me as a Boston guy,

whereas inside of Boston, I'm the furthest thing from. When you grow up on Martha's Vineyard and you go to high school there, then you go to Vermont, and then you move to Boston when you're 26 and have a house for like six or seven years, that's not a Boston guy. That's a guy that actually lives in the area.

And my friend countered with, well, you know what, dude? You didn't have any money. Your career was kind of a joke. It didn't look like it was going to work out. Your house sucked, and no girls liked you for a pretty long time. So, yeah, it's kind of weird that you didn't like it, huh?

Like, dude, things are just better now. And that's always a good reminder because I'll have this thing with my friends where they'll say, oh, Vegas isn't as good or this isn't as good or New York City. I city i'll have arguments with friends like oh new york city was so much better in the late 90s and early 2000s it's like no you were better or you had a better run and now you're old and that run doesn't exist so now when you go there it's not the same experience so you are projecting it's somehow a place like manhattan with seven eight million

people got way worse because you're older, you know, whereas me sitting around walking around Boston going, yeah, this is great. Newberry Street, just check it out. Maybe get myself a little acai bowl, you know, maybe buy a nice pair of jeans, go to the Equinox over here, say hello to a few people. This place wasn't super friendly when I lived here. And now people are friendlier because they're just saying hi to me. So yeah, a lot of times when you do that, don't let yourself play that trick on you where you're like, oh, this place is way different now, better or worse. It's like, well, look, if you're doing better, you're going to feel better about your surroundings.

And if you're doing worse, you're going to feel worse around your surroundings. And when I lived here, I was kind of a loser. I'm just going to go ahead and throw it out there. And the last three years, I technically lived here. I didn't even live here anyway, because I was living in a hotel in Connecticut. So the last couple of years I was even in Boston still paying a mortgage. It was basically a massive closet. And trust me, the place wasn't that big. It was, it was kind of gross. It was all I could afford. It was a one bedroom deal. It wasn't, it was

actually on a nice stretch of calm half, but it wasn't like the cool spot, but it was gross in there and it became a huge closet because I would come in, grab a change of clothes, go do some Celtics TV for a day, maybe stay there one night and then I'd be back in Connecticut living in the hotel in Bristol.

Always looking for a change of clothes. Your boy had every Banana Republic button down going. I know, I think I've said this before, but you get that 20% off coupon, and you're like, well, yeah, I got to go buy a couple dress shirts. All right, let's do this. Let's do some ads.

We're going to talk some college football, and then we're going to have my man, Steve Cerruti, who's now an on-air talent talking NBA and the top five players you would want to build your franchise around because he is the king of the lists. State Farm is our presenting sponsor. Today's episode of the Ryan Russillo Show is brought to you by State Farm. If you're fumbling with insurance, State Farm agents are here to help because with over 19,000 agents, they're local to you and available

to help whether you connect in person, by phone, or through the State Farm mobile app, agents are here to help. So go with the one that has coverage and agents you can count on. State Farm, talk to an agent today. And let's also mention our good friends from Google because with the Google Assistant, it is ready to help you get more done with just your voice in the car, at home, and everywhere that you take your phone. Like when I'm in the gym, I can just say, hey, Google, play workout music. Sure, check out this workout music station on YouTube Music. Peace out. A-Town.

A little help. Hands free. Just say, hey, Google, to get started. College football rankings are out. And I want to go through three things that matter and three things that don't matter. You could argue none of it matters, but I think that's a little dismissive. And, yes, a lot of this stuff takes care of itself. And when I saw the rankings come out and you're like, ooh, they got Georgia up at six.

They got Penn State at four. They're ahead of Clemson. What do all these things mean? Should Ohio State actually be number one over LSU? Well, let's go through it. Here's what matters. Bama-Clemson. This actually does matter a little bit.

Now, if you want to say the committee has an infatuation with Bama, do you really feel like Bama wasn't one of the four best teams all the years that they got in? Is that all of us just being guilty of the laundry and falling in love with the name that we're gifting them chances to get in? Or do they usually beat some really good teams, and other than the Clemson National Championship loss, they hadn't had any bad losses since 2007?

I'm talking like, hey, that's a bad loss. How did you lose that game? And you got blown out. They went like a decade without one. So that means, and maybe rightfully so here, though, that the committee does still like Bama, and if they were to lose to LSU this weekend, and you also have to compare not Bama to other years,

but compare Bama to the rest of the field, Bama is going to get in as a one-loss non-SEC champ over a Clemson who, if Clemson were to stumble, has no chance. So there is no infatuation with Clemson's dominance since the North Carolina game. The North Carolina close win is being held against Clemson. And when it comes down to comparing this team to that team, and you're trying to figure out and decipher all this stuff,

and I'm going to get to that a little bit later, it isn't really about that. It's just them going, all right, you know what? We're not as in love with Clemson. So I actually think Clemson being outside of the top four, as much as if they take care of their own deal and they're Clemson and they win the SEC, they're going to be in the playoff considering all these other teams have to play them. You know, other teams, obviously Penn State

and Ohio State are going to play, LSU-Bama this weekend, as you mentioned. But between Alabama and Clemson, two teams that are undefeated with not great resumes, the room is telling you they prefer Bama. And I actually think that means something. Georgia at six, I think, is wrong. When you lose to South Carolina with their second and third string quarterbacks

and you play the way they played where they had a stretch of about three or so weeks where you're like, this is not the team that I thought was supposed to be dominant. I think that's a problem that Georgia is at six ahead of Oregon and Utah. Utah's loss is hard to explain. Oregon's loss is against a good Auburn team where, let's face it, for most of the game, Oregon was the better team, and Bo Nix hits a ridiculous throw at the end. And look, that's why they keep track of this stuff.

But I think it's okay to look at a team that loses going, yeah, that's one they really probably shouldn't have lost. It's okay because you know you do it. We all do it. So it does matter that the committee, and this isn't necessarily, I don't know if it is an SEC or not, but it seems like they're hanging on to Georgia here a little bit more than they are the idea that a Pac-12 champ would be better.

Remember, Oregon and Utah both, if you look at their last three remaining regular season games, both teams should probably be 11-1 at the end of the regular season. And I think they should just both be higher, especially Oregon with their loss versus Georgia's loss. I mean, Utah's loss is worse, but Oregon's loss isn't worse than Georgia's loss. And yet, Georgia is ahead of, maybe right now, the favorite in the Pac-12. Another thing that's really hard to do, whether it's just sifting through all the stuff at the top, I feel like we always have a hard time with just admitting,

hey, you know what? This 5-3 team, they're actually kind of good. I think this team at 5-3 is good. USC has four losses now, so nobody's going to sit here and say, oh, yeah, they're so good, right? They're probably going to fire their coach. I don't think USC is awful though. I just don't. Kyle, you like that one?

USC fans probably should have been chanting overrated when they're up 10-0 on Oregon and then they gave up 50. But I look at a win against a USC. There's other wins there. Some of you maybe are thinking, hey, South Carolina's a little bit better than you're giving them credit for.

That next group, it's not even the, it's like that third tier of teams. It could be anywhere from like 11 to 20. There's actually some teams that are tough to beat in that group, but nobody ever wants to acknowledge any of that stuff if you're sitting there week nine with three losses. I don't think Texas is terrible, and yet it looks like it's getting weird down in Austin with the way they've been playing. We're going to get to them a little bit later. So those are the things that matter. Bama-Clemson separation, Georgia at six, and the fact that Oregon and Utah are still behind Georgia. Here's what doesn't matter. Ohio State over LSU. Because of what LSU has remaining,

and if they win the SEC Championship, guess what? They're in the playoff. And at this point, it would really be more about seeding. And if LSU beats Bama, then we're all going to want Ohio State and LSU. If you look at a bunch of the different rankings here,

it's pretty clear that there are metrics that the room likes, and it could just be the eye test. It could be a bunch of different things. It's never consistently going to be one set of criteria where it's like, hey, these are the three things every year in order that we think are the most important trying to figure out what the best teams are. That doesn't happen, so stop asking for it to happen. But if you look at power rankings on ESPN, Ohio State is one, LSU is four. If you look at the strength of schedule, it is now Ohio State three, LSU eight.

Some metrics have LSU much lower. That Northwestern State game drags LSU's ranking down. If you look at the defense, because I've heard this a lot, like, oh, LSU's defense just isn't the same. Ohio State's defense has been nuts. They're number one in opposing defensive yards allowed per play. It's a bunch better number because we're not looking at tempo, just, hey, how many yards did the opponent get every time they snapped the football? Ohio State is the best in the country. LSU is actually 15th.

I think a lot of people seem to think that LSU is worse because of the Texas and Vandy score. And the best three wins, this is where I thought LSU should have been number one, but it doesn't matter. Here are your best three wins. Ohio State, number 20, Cincy, and that's currently now. Wisconsin at 13, which was a bludgeoning.

And I guess the third best win for Ohio State would be Indiana. Now, Michigan State was ranked when they beat them, but that's a joke because Michigan State shouldn't be ranked ever. LSU, Florida, Auburn, Texas. Those three wins are better than Ohio State's three wins. And yes, it is not even close, which is always my term that I use when it's actually kind of close,

but I do mean that. I don't know how anybody could look at those three wins and say, yeah, you know what? I think Cincy, Wisconsin, Indiana are as good as Florida, Auburn, and Texas, but Rob Mullins, the AD we've had on this podcast before, the Oregon AD who's the committee chair for the playoff, he was pretty clear in that Ohio State's dominance

from start to finish, some of the metrics and I think what they're doing is they're looking at the Vandy and Texas game and the non-conference for LSU despite the fact it's against Texas and not a Cincinnati but now that Texas is losing games lost to TCU the weird Kansas game you know they're five and three like what the hell's going on down there in Austin so maybe the Texas thing isn't as good in other people's eyes, but I don't know if that's the committee truly watching what happened in the Vandy-Texas game defensively for LSU, but I've been over this a million times, so I'm not going to do it over again. I'd put LSU one, but I have no problem with any single person.

I've said this for weeks, like six weeks. If you think Ohio State's one, that's cool. I'm not going to argue with you. I just think those three wins for LSU should put them ahead of them when the other numbers aren't really that much of a separation. The remaining schedule

for Minnesota. Minnesota at 17 can feel low for an 8-0 Power 5 team. I love that the committee did it. They haven't played anybody. Their non-conference is terrible. They have one score wins against some bad football teams. They haven't played anybody. Their non-conference is terrible. They have one score wins against some bad football teams. They haven't played a team with a winning record in the Big Ten. They still will have Ohio State. They've got Penn State this weekend.

They'll have Ohio State if they're in the Big Ten championship game. Minnesota has plenty of people to play. We are going to find out if they're good. Penn State this weekend. Then they get a ranked Iowa. They finish it at home against Wisconsin after Northwestern. Let's say, depending on what happens with Ohio State the rest of the way, so let's not assume too much, but if it's Ohio State or maybe it's Penn State again, Minnesota, who right now 17 to me would be, I would have a hard time even putting them at 17.

There's really no problem with that. And in some way, the same goes for Baylor. Baylor's best win right now is a Kansas State team that the committee does like. They beat them at their place in Manhattan 31-12. But the rest of the way, they've got TCU, who's clearly like kind of one of those good teams that's not an easy out. They're 4-4, but nobody wants to call them good. Back to that thing I was talking about. Oklahoma, Texas,

who is not going to be an easy team to beat at home if you're in Waco. If they take care of that, and then the Big 12 felt left out and decided, hey, we hated the conference championship game, but now we should do it, even though we got screwed over and we don't want to do it because of what happened in the past. But now we think we have to do it to keep up with everybody else at extra data point. Baylor, Minnesota rankings, none of that stuff matters because the rest of the way, they're going to have a chance with a much better closing schedule. And let's just leave with this.

When Mullins was up there, he was succinct. He made every point as quick as he possibly could because the longer your answer is, the more things that people can poke holes in it. And whenever somebody starts to do the, well, Bama's going to get in because they got in in 2007 and ohio state didn't as the big 10 champ like that is one of the most absurd things the way that is always argued the 2017 is argued it's like yeah you do remember they lost twice right they lost by 15 to oklahoma and they lost by 31 at five and three iowa So whenever you read something from somebody going,

well, the precedent has been set, every year is its own thing. I'm not saying there isn't carryover impression from teams and what they've done in the past, but all I'm saying is you can't use, hey, in 2016 the committee did this, 2018 the committee did this. You have to compare the team to the other teams of that year and what's going on. You can't just say,

well, Ohio State got left out and Bama went into 2017, so that's going to apply today. And honestly, anyone who's arguing that Ohio State should have been in as the Big Ten champ over Alabama, if the criteria is the committee saying, hey, this is who we think

the four best teams are, then it's just a waste of time. But people were definitely arguing it. So it's always something to remember because I've been lucky enough to talk to every single committee chair since the inception and been through two of the mock things. It's just, it's actually, you can think it's complicated and figure out what these guys are doing, but it's actually not that complicated.

You know, they sit there and say conference doesn't matter. Conference matters. It is impossible for any of us to watch any of these games without a preconceived notion of what we think about a conference, whether it's good, it's weak, it's no defense, all offense. You know what I'm saying? There's no way they could do it where they could separate it all. It's impossible to do it, but they're never going to tell you that it matters because if they say the conferences matter, then we're going to say, well, which conferences are good and which ones are bad? And then they open up a whole other thing for us to question them with.

And that's why they don't do it. So there's your lesson on that. Okay, before we talk to Saruti, I want to tell you about our good friends at Proper Cloth because finding a dress shirt that fits is hard. I have big shoulders, man. I don't know what to tell you. Sometimes I throw something on. I was at Rag and Bone once and the guy was like, you could fit into these skinny jeans. Your legs aren't that big.

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because he is on-air talent. That's right. Steve Cerruti, part of Scallon Pals, the host with Brian Scalabrini on radio.com sports. So what's up, man? This is weird. I feel like maybe I should have let you talk more all those years.

No, listen, it is a little bit weird to talk to you. I mean, I know I was firing you random Jonathan Isaac text this morning, so it's still in communication, but I miss you, man, and I know all is going well. I've been catching up on some of the most of the Rossellos.

I've been catching up on some of the ones with Steven Simmons. Sounds good. Actually, I think the last one I listened to, one of the last ones I listened to was with Adnan, not liking the Joker, which was, I love Adnan, but the most predictable thing of all time. Yeah, you know what? He's such a movie guy, though.

I'll give him this, that when he started just flat out like referencing older movies that it was stealing from, you know, most of us are not going into the movie with that going, oh, you're not giving a nod to, you're not doing some sort of cool swingers thing where the guys are walking down an alley in slow motion as a nod to Reservoir Dogs. You're straight up just taking the storyline. So, you know, that's the advanced mind and eye, the train-tuned eye of an Adnan Virk that maybe the rest of us don't get. A professional, if you will.

Right. But, you know, I also think that he kind of made up his mind. I think Adnan's the kind of guy who makes up his mind before he goes in. 100%. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you're probably listening, but I could have already told you

before I saw that movie, before I even saw a preview, that he would not like that movie. So before we get too into this stuff, because I love every day checking out what the topics are on the show. I'm finally subscribed, so make sure you check out and support my boy Cerruti and subscribe to his Scal and Pals deal with Scal. But the thing that I've, I've really enjoyed is seeing the list. So you had a couple of lists that I want to get to, because there's a list that everybody's losing their mind on and you did it today too,

as well. But just the transition to go from, cause when you started off here, here's what we both know about the business is there's a lot of guys that were walking around Bristol that wanted to be on the air. And at some point, the decision was kind of easier to go, you know, what's really hard is getting on the air and it's really hard making it. So I'm just going to work behind the scenes. I remember

one of my first jobs, I really, it was my second job after play by play that first radio job in Boston where I'm actually broadcasting live from now beacon hill what's up kid um nice they were like hey we should probably get you to learn how to run the board and some of the editing equipment just so you can pick up extra hours and make some money and i was like that's a no because as soon as i know how to use that stuff then you guys are going to give me shifts using it and then that's going to give me less of a chance to be on air and when it's a tie between ryan and the other guy for an on-air shift and the other guy doesn't know how to use the board guess who's getting the on-air shift not me so that was something very early on that I figured out never learned any of that stuff there's a place that

was like you can do sales on the side and I go no I'm either on air or I'll go get a job that actually pays and that's what happens is there's some frustrated behind the scenes people that didn't get to be on the air that maybe resent it the whole time or some people imagine. And then there's other people that just don't care. And my whole long preamble is that you are the one guy who actually, I don't think ever cared or nor wanted to be on the air. And yet here you are as a host. Yeah. I mean, it definitely wasn't like my main goal. Like I didn't, you know,

I feel like it's always funny when people are like, you know, there are a lot of people that I would, that would reach out to me like in, you know, DMs and stuff. Like,

dude, you have the best job. Like, how do you become like this on-air type producer guy? Because what I want to do, I'm like, I don't know.

Like I never really like set out to that. Like I remember when I was in college, like I was like a communications, like policy side guy. I thought I was like going to be in DC, hanging out and doing politics

and that didn't work out. And I ended up just like getting, you know, I obviously, I work in radio in college and I like sports and I was going to be in D.C. hanging out and doing politics, and that didn't work out. And I ended up just getting—you know, obviously, I work in radio in college, and I like sports. And I was like, you know, I'll apply to ESPN, got the job. We were working, like, these terrible overnight shifts. Although it was funny, I was working with Bob Balvano back then, but I was working, like, the worst hours in the world. And it's stuff that people would probably hate, but it was never really my goal to, like—you know, because you're 100% right. There are people there. There are a lot of people there at ESPN that, like, are behind the my goal to like, you know, cause you're 100% right. There are people there. There are a lot of people there at ESPN that like are behind the scenes that are either,

you know, whether they're like researchers or PAs or whatever that like, they, they like, they want to be on the air and they think that they're talented. They think that they should be doing that. I never really approached like, I think, you know, like I never really like approached like a day-to-day thing like that. I, I always kind of liked my role. I like, you know, I, I, I like, I like supporting things that you had. I would disagree with you. I think one of the

first things that you sort of flashed onto me about was like my, my like blind love for Alex Smith and why the hell that I was like the biggest Alex Smith fan you ever knew. And I guess stuff like that, that I just sort of, you know, I have opinions on random stuff, but I think the good thing about working with you is you sort of gave me opportunity to, when I had something, you let me go off on it, which was really great, but you're right. It was never really my goal to just like become a,

you know, become a host of something or have my own show or whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It just sort of worked out that way.

And, you know, I think it's fun. It's really different. I told you, like, I feel like I'll listen back to some of the stuff I do now. And I'm like,

damn it. I suck. Like this is, you know, you have to be your own worst critic, really. And, like, in reality, it's not awful, it's not terrible, but you're like, yeah, you're listening. Like, I just do this thing. Like, you're going to listen back after a couple months, and you're going to be better, and you're going to be like, wow, that's, you know,

I sound like shit back then, even though it wasn't really that bad. So I'm really happy with what I'm doing. I'm glad I was with the NBA. Scal is such an awesome dude to work with. He's so, the funny thing is he's so different from, like the two main people that I work with have been you and Will. And you guys are, you guys are actually pretty similar in a lot of ways. Scal could not be more different than the two of you guys.

He sees everything from, he sees everything from a player perspective. And we often sort of disagree on a lot of stuff in a brief way. So that's kind of been really the biggest adjustment. It's hard to have chemistry with someone right away, especially if you're not even in the same spot. So he's an incredibly good dude, but it's definitely a very different job talking sports and talking basketball with him than it is with guys like you and Will.

Yeah, I hate that you guys are separated, especially in your first real show that you're doing this. Just the other day, somebody was asking me about coming back to radio, and I was like, look, it's weird. One of the things I actually regret since leaving the radio show is that I should have just shut up and not told anybody I was trying to be a writer,

because now people are like, well, how's that going? And then I've had people at ESPN say, well, wait a minute, you just quit to be a writer. And you're like, that's 100% the most inaccurate version of events. I didn't just walk in one day and be like, hey, you guys are going to regret losing me. I'm going to be a writer. Take over, you know what I mean?

Like, I just kind of wanted to tell people like, hey, this is something I'm interested in. And now that it's as challenging as I thought it was, it just, you know, the timeline on it is whatever it is. And, you know, I'm not going to worry about it, but it's turned into this weird thing. I, I had, I had dinner with somebody in the industry and they were like, well, no, I told our guys that you're done with radio forever. And I'm like, wait a minute. I'm like, that's not, that's not true. Like there are things I, I prefer, but then when you say that, it's like, oh, you're not really

that invested in it. And you go, whatever. whatever but the point is is that anytime you're separated it just doesn't work and i don't like that your first job is separated but it also gets you to stay at home where you don't have to move to a city and uproot everybody trying to figure out like how this next year is going and i've listened to it and it has worked but you know scott and i weren't great until the third year when we stopped being split up all the time. And it's just the way it is. But there's just so many shows, certainly at the network level, too, where people are kind of like out of convenience. Yeah, just dial up everything and go ahead and do it.

So I've actually been really impressed in your ability to read Scal on this stuff, knowing that you don't want to interrupt him because, hey, it's Scalon Pals. And, you know, obviously a company isn't going to just put your name all over everything from the very beginning. I know that as well as anybody, but it's not easy. And I think you've done a really good job with it. And I would tell you, you know, like, hey, this wasn't very good or whatever. And like I said, with anybody who's on air, especially in the beginning, like whatever you are now, you're 10 times better than that first show you did. And then at the end of this year, you're going to listen to these shows and go oh my god

i'm embarrassed i was even on the air but it's just about getting better like there's nothing you can do to avoid that especially in the beginning any any new on air thing so now i feel like this is just turning us to being on the phone so i apologize it's funny because you know there isn't such a huge difference between like you know if you're you know it would always be like hey you know shimmy on this shimmy on that on the pod and they're structurally you know i i knew there's i know there's such a big difference in actually hosting stuff until you actually do it it really like you don't really it doesn't really like really you know dawn on you about how different how difficult it is to add like a minute or two

of you know of an opinion here or there. My magic dinner delivery I used to do back in the day to legitimately driving a show. And that's been the biggest transition. And also being interesting and being yourself, which is the hardest part about it. But it's been fun, man. I've really enjoyed it.

I miss you guys. I miss everybody. But it's definitely something I'm pumped to be doing. So if you have the time and you love the NBA, check it out. We're going to get to your list. Before we do that with Cerruti, DraftKings is on board. They've been on board since day one with anything I've done. I can't tell you how much I

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Eligibility restrictions apply. See DraftKings.com for details. List me softly here, and I think the one I want to do, the one that I was so pissed off about, but yet you're doing what everybody else is doing, and that is top five players that you would start a franchise with today. What was your list? What was your first list before you felt guilty about it?

So the reason I wanted to do this is because of how unbelievable Luka Doncic looked against the Lakers for that Saturday night, last Saturday night. Friday night? Last Friday? Friday night. Was it Friday night or Saturday? I just remember I was laying in bed watching on my phone.

I don't know why. But I'm sitting there and I'm going, I can't believe how good he is just this early into his second year. He's going toe-to-toe with LeBron, who is whether or not you want to consider him the best player right now. I think he is, but we'll be determined. But I just couldn't believe how good he looked. So I'm thinking there, I remember the GM survey, which is something that I love doing, and I know you like looking at the yearly GM survey. And they came out, and I believe it was overwhelming that it was Giannis

as the number one guy that you would start a franchise with, right? And I'm starting to think, where does Dodgers come in on this? I think this is who he is. I don't think this is any sort of fluke. I don't think there's going to be any sort of slump. I think everyone goes for the ups and downs, but this is who he is. I don't think this is any sort of fluke. I don't think there's going to be any sort of slump. I think everyone goes for the ups and downs, but this is who he is. I think he has future MVP written all over him. I think if this thing goes right, he's going to be a future MVP title winner. I don't have really any doubts about that.

So I'm thinking in my mind, where does he rank and where does he compare with Giannis? So that's kind of why I picked him. And the way I sort of looked at it was, you know, if you're doing like a 2K draft, right? So this is for as long as you want it to be. So this is the future. I'm starting a franchise. I want it to be for like five to ten or so years. Like, I want this thing to be long-term.

So I know there are a lot of people that are like, well, you know, I would just take, you know, LeBron for, you know, he's got two more prime years. I want two titles. It'll be fine. That's not like the way I was thinking about this. I'm thinking long-term planning, key building, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I ended up going, I ended up settling with Giannis at number one, and that was what we did. I think we did that on Tuesday.

I think we did it Wednesday during the day. We did it Wednesday during the day. And I had Giannis one, I had Doncic two, I had Anthony Davis three, I had, I still had Kawhi four, because he's 28. I still think you're getting what, three, four prime Kawhi years, MVP level years left as long as the load manager and the knee thing holds up. And then I had him beat five,

which was probably the hardest one for me at the time. And then I watched Don Chicks and I know I'm going to get some stick for this, but I watched Don Chicks get the magic on Wednesday night. And he goes for 27-77. He is, I mean, I couldn't have been more impressed with him. He is, Aaron Gordon, he's one of the best defensive players in the league, and Dodgers just touring with him on these high-pitched screens.

He basically, I'm sure you see, right? He gets guys on his hip and on his back, and he sort of boxes them out with the ball, and it's completely over from there. He's either going to shoot a floater, kick it out or he's gonna you know throw it up to the lob to somebody it's it's an unstoppable play and i'm sitting there going like he's so good and so mature at what is he age 20 19 it's just like i can't believe it i'm almost talking like buyers remorse the same day that i put this list out about whether or not i should have actually

had dodged it once and i know that sounds insane to say, but I kind of believe, like, Scal was talking about this a little bit when we were talking about Giannis, and I don't believe this to be true, but this is what Scal had said, is that he said he would take 30 guys in the league over Giannis to close a game out. Like, he does not trust him closing games out. He has the Sixers winning the title. He just doesn't believe that Giannis is the piece of the round. Mostly, he just does not believe Giannis.

Basically, it's all predicated on athleticism, him being physically stronger and better at it than people, and that's what his closing game is. I think there is a little bit of truth to that, but when I look at Donchik, I'm like, this guy is a killer in his early second year in the league.

He might not be as good on defense as Giannis is, but I think he could be an okay defender when it's all said and done. But he has that absolute thing where I go, I just trust him with the ball in his hands at the end of any big game. And for me to say that about him in his early second year, I'm sitting there going,

I think I'm costing myself into taking Donchich over anybody else in the NBA right now to start a franchise with. Oh my God, you just blew my mind. I thought you were going to apologize for having Donchich over anybody else in the NBA right now to start a franchise list. Oh my God, you just blew my mind. I thought you were going to apologize for having Donchich too high, and now you talked yourself into taking it. You thought it too behind Giannis, he was too low? I didn't even know this was about to happen.

So when I said give me your first list, I thought this was like, hey man, I probably had Donchich a little too high. Simmons is about to hire you right now as soon as he hears this, because between he and, I'm trying to think I think it was was um I forget there's somebody else who loved Donchich and Bill and him were like losing their minds about it and I think Bill had Donchich I know he's in his top five was he second in his trade value column okay having him over yannis yeah so by the way yannis um is your choice okay so i'm sorry to like hey thanks for coming on but you're out of your mind on that okay uh and the scary thing with yannis and i pointed this out last

year during the spring as he was closing regular season games and this has always been kind of like the simmons thing one of the hardest things to do in basketball is to do all those little things you do in practice and then go okay now I feel comfortable enough to use it in the game but you can't get to that point where you're comfortable enough to use it in a game until you actually start using it in a game so that's why it's like you know what a couple bad outside shots from Simmons isn't a bad thing if he ever wants to develop that because it kind of means that like you know eventually you're going to start getting a little bit more comfortable about the whole thing right like that's the whole that's the whole point and Giannis was somebody that was taking some threes the numbers weren't great but I

could see his comfort level and these are the things that like stats don't always show and it's one of my rants about R.J. Barrett looking more comfortable you know now outside of Duke and the Brandon Ingram rant that I had it was all part of the same thing where I did this kind of seven minute NBA rant where I'm like, look, there are things that are just beyond numbers where if you watch enough games and watch these guys long enough, and I'm talking decades of watching basketball, you'll see like, oh, Giannis is figuring some things out here with that shot. And we saw it at moments in the playoffs where it finally started to look comfortable.

And then he hits four against the Clippers on Wednesday night. And that's the thing where I just go okay this thing's a wrap because he's also what i love about him when he goes up against philadelphia he goes right at those guys he goes right at it and i'm not saying like hey mb isn't good because mb is going to be on my list here by the way even with his injury history and he seems like he's figured this thing out which was my biggest fear with him two years ago but i don't know how you... What is Scal talking about? 30 other guys? I'd love to do... Will you do that podcast?

Just spend the whole day, like a slow day after a slow Tuesday night. Just do a Wednesday show where he has to name, for the next hour, 30 guys he thinks would be better to throw the basketball to. He did? Give me some of the worst names. Who did he say? Kyle Lowry was in there. I mean, Kyle Lowry was in there.

I think Devin Booker was in there. Who else? It was pretty much anybody that he trusts on offense. Kyle Lowry? Yeah, his issue with Giannis, and I don't think he's fully off on this, although I wouldn't go to the extreme he does, is it's all predicated on, like, physical dominance.

And, like, if you can, if he believed that, like, he picked the Citrus to go to the finals, and he believed that Embiid and those guys are just going to be able to keep him out of the paint, and they're going to bully him, because he doesn't have a go-to move. Like, he doesn't have something that he can just consistently go to that he trusts. It's just all bully ball, like like I'm a better athlete than you,

which I do think is true. And so I'm not going to go far and say like, but then my report over him was like, okay, so you trust Embiid and Simmons in the same spot? Like I don't trust those guys. He trusts Simmons? Tell me, he picked Simmons as a better guy to give the ball to at the end of a close game?

He did not. Okay. He did not. He took Embiid though. And I was like, listen, I don. Okay. He did not. He took Embiid, though. And I was like, listen, I don't know that I'm that comfortable with trusting Embiid in a big spot either. You can point to the, obviously, the seven-game series and the buzzer beater against Kawhi and the Raptors.

And yeah, sure, they came a little bit closer than the Bucs did. But I still have my questions about Giannis in that series. And I still have my questions about Giannis right now. We can talk about how much weight he's lost and how he's not tweeting at Rihanna anymore, but I'm just going to need to see it for a little bit longer than just hearing him word of mouth and taking his word for it. But I do think there is some truth to that,

that Giannis, you're right, he hit four threes the other night. He looks good. He's certainly not shy. It just looks better. It looks better. Yeah, it's not like a Martel-F. Look, it looks better. He's right. Yeah, it's not like a Martel Fold 3 where it kind of goes in, but you don't feel good about it. It's okay. It looks like he has some confidence there. But I do think there is some truth to him and potentially, like,

not necessarily having a go-to offensive move yet. I think I look at a guy like Dodgers, and I'm like, what is Dodgers' weakness? I don't think he has a weakness, other than if you want to say the defensive end. And I think, like I said, I think he'll be an okay defender when it's all said and done. But he has all these insane offensive skills already.

He's already running points forward and dropping the famous LeBron 27-7-7 stat line. It's just very consistently. So I look at that and I go, he already has all the things that I wish Giannis did have offensively. Okay. To suggest, though, that like Donchus, say he's not great at defense

and then put him in this class with Giannis and Kawhi and some of these other guys. No, he's not even good. Yeah, no, I get that. I get that. You need it. Okay, all right. So we disagree on that one.

So you have Donchus one. Give me your five then. Just give me your five and we'll work from there and then I'll give you my five. Well, my original one was Giannisis one and i'm doctors too i i'm i'm i'm willing to consider doctors i don't know if i put them there yet but those are my top two for sure and then i had i had anthony davis at three and i that's what i said this gal on the pod i was like i think anthony davis could be he might be the most talented guy out of all those guys

i just my issue with davis why i didn't have him worn was, I just think he's more comfortable. Like, his dad can say that he wants his son to play for the Lakers in a marquee franchise and be the number one guy. He can say that. The Lakers can say that he's their number one option. But I always kind of fall back on this thing where I just wonder if he's more comfortable. It's kind of the same thing with Paul George.

Like, is he just more comfortable being kind of like the Robin to the Bronx Batman or Kawhi's Batman in Paul George's case? I just feel like he is more comfortable in that role. And he can be physically dominant. He can be the most dominant player in the NBA up there with Embiid. But I just feel like it's not always there with him. So that's why I had him at 3, even though I was still, I mean, like I said, there's a case to be made that he's the most talented player

in the entire league, and he's only 26 years old, and he's an unbelievable force on both ends of the court. So I get it there, but I still am a little bit weary. Like, I think the LeBron situation for him in L.A. is perfect because LeBron can say whatever he wants, say that it's the team, we're going to give him the ball. I'm sorry, say that it's AD's team, we're going to give him the ball. But at the end of the day, like, come playoff time, we all know what's just the opposite team. We're going to give them the ball. I'm sorry, say that it's ADC and we're going to give them the ball. But at the end of the day,

come play on time, we all know what's going to happen next. LeBron's going to be the one that's running the offense and doing his thing. And I think Anthony Davis, to some extent, is more comfortable with that, no matter what he says. So I had him at number three. Do you disagree with that, by the way? I have Davis, too. I think the first thing with Davis is people go,

what about his injury history? It's like, look, if last year wasn't this just colossal disaster, both by him. He had played 70 plus games. It would have been three straight years. So just like Embiid, who I go, okay, now he's just magically going to be healthy for the next 10 years. I still have to put him in there because Embiid is, I think, is talented. Like when I watch Embiid when it's right, the list of how many guys are more talented than him just isn't very long. I like Davis a little bit better. Davis has had moments with this Lakers season early on where I'm just watching these games and I love running into Lakers fans now being like, you thought you had an idea, but now you see it, right? And they're just like, it's nuts. I mean, that game where he was 40 and 20 through three quarters and it was just so easy it looked like hey you know the analogy i've always used with

other players in other sports is just every now and then there looks like a guy that belongs in the league that's above whatever the league is and davis has those moments and yes lebron you know whether he's deferring to him now lebron's putting together an incredible season defensively the whole team has been really good. I mentioned earlier this week, again, the team hasn't shot it all that well, except for a couple guys, which is actually a little scary. And Davis will still take some Embiid-type shots. You're like, what the hell are you guys doing?

But Embiid's problem closing, I always feel like, has more to do with the lack of spacing around him than it's necessarily Embiid. Some of it is, hey, Joel hey Joel you got to figure out Joel can throw he meaning like he can find opposite he's he was good at that stuff like his freshman year at Kansas that was one of the first things that jumped out at me about Embiid I'm going this guy has improved I still argue like he's improved from the start of his freshman year to the end of his freshman year as much as any draft prospect I've ever looked at and not even that he was bad in the beginning, but he just picked up these things like this understanding of,

oh, here comes help. I didn't think about this past last month, and now I've totally read all of your help defensive moves. And you're like, this kid's insane. And I've always gotten tapped as anti-Ambede because of my anti-Philly rant a couple years ago, which is dismissing that it has nothing to do. But it has nothing to do with what I mean, it has nothing to do

with what I thought of his talent. I loved him more than anybody in that draft. But you just, you don't know. And it's like, hey, this guy's going to miss like the first two years of his career, but then everything's going to work out and he's going to be all NBA the next five years. It's like, well, that doesn't really happen.

You know, like what he's doing now, the start of his story to what the end of his story could be. Like, this is one of the most remarkable turnarounds because usually when it's like hey like how many guys like hey that guy was awesome but he just he couldn't play the first couple years but we all knew what was going to work out you know that's that's a huge assumption so i was the honest the good thing is that you now now now it's not six fans it's the hawks fans right hawks fans we're going to get to those guys a little bit later.

So you gave me your five then because it is, just to revisit it because I'm going to compare it to mine. Yeah, so four I had Kawhi. I kind of look at it and I go, Kawhi's 28. I feel like you're getting three, four MVP years left of Kawhi. And that's almost as good

as gold. I know what I'm getting in him. It's not projection. It's like he is maybe the best player in the league right now, if not, probably two. So I had him at four. I think there's a case you could even say he should be ahead of Anthony Davis, and I had him beat at five. I subscribe to this theory. I think you know this about me.

Even if I think Anthony Davis and Embiid are the two most physically dominant maybe Giannis is probably in that conversation too but those two can be the most physically dominant guys in the league when it's close I'm always going to take the wing player I'm always going to go with Don Chich or the guy who's handling the ball

I know AD can kind of do that Embiid a little bit less but a little bit still I'm still sort of questioning whether or not building your team around a center or even in the anti-Davidson case like a power forward but a guy who's mostly on the play on the block and is playing in the paint even though he can stretch. I'm

still a little bit scared of saying, hey yeah, that guy can definitely carry you to a title because I don't know when's the last time that happened. It just doesn't it's a wing dominant league so if I'm gonna have a close call between a wing player and a big I'm probably gonna take the wing both times yeah I would say it was it was Duncan was the most recent example um but you know Spurs fans

if Tony Parker said he wanted to be labeled as a center Spurs fans would argue be like well actually he was a center. Duncan was a center. He wanted to be the power forward. I've been over this argument before. But even at the end of that two-year run, the back-to-back finals against Miami, it was certainly Kawhi in the second one. Yeah.

And it was shooting. It was just these ridiculous shooting nights where you go, like, Miami's got no shot in these games. And I still can't believe they won that first series against them but i don't know you know a lot of its human nature how motivated would san antonio had been if they'd won the first one would they'd even been in the finals you know does that mean miami like i don't like doing this well the golden state warriors should have five okay well maybe but you know the new england patriots should have nine okay but you could also argue they could have three less so you know you know, if you're around long enough, like in Alabama,

you're going to have some you should have won and some that you should have lost, and it just kind of all evens out unless you're Jordan. Okay, here's my five. I went Giannis, I went AD, and I love your Kawhi call because if he's the best player in the league right now, which he is, and even though this load management stuff is out of control um and i'm not saying necessarily for him this isn't just about kawaii it's just stars resting in general and burning their tv

counterparts and this is also becoming one of my favorite arguments and how incredibly flawed people are when they're trying to figure out people's motivations my motivation is just to sift through the bullshit and say hey i think this is cool and i think this isn't cool that's it that's all i that's if there's one thing i'm about that's what it is and people that still don't realize or forgotten that i moved on from espn they're like oh classic tv guy who works for the man or you know working for the cable provider that's in business with these guys complaining it's like okay so if you thought my motivation about thinking load management was lame or that it's overblown i'm not saying it's 100 terrible i'm just saying it's overblown and i think that just guys like resting and if you're saying that i'm pointing that out because i work

at espn well if i don't work at espn wouldn't my motivation be like ha that's cool they're burning espn now so whatever anybody thinks they're deciphering with me they can't they can't it's really simple it has nothing it's never been about who i'm working for who i'm aligned with it's simply hey this is what i think of something and even with kawaii and this quad thing where if you're san antonio you're like it wasn't that bad and if you're everybody else who's sticking up for them like you know some of these shows where it's all x players just going yep everybody sit well it's like you know what you know i mean just some of these tv shows are unwatchable now where it's all ex-players just going, yep, everybody sit. It's like, you know what? I mean, just some of these TV shows are unwatchable now

where it's like, oh, no way. We're going to have four ex-players all take turns saying how awesome it is that nobody plays. And I'm like, that's a great show. I mean, let me DVR this for the season. I would still take Kawhi at 28, Saruti. Yeah, that's my point. After all of that, I'd still take him third in this thing.

Real quick, because those guys that are calling you out for saying that you were for ESPN, that's the reason that you're mad about load management. Are those the same guys that are the SEC fans that were saying, oh, you have the SEC network at ESPN, they're pushing that. You're mandated to say good things about the SEC all the time for Alabama every single year. That's the exact same guy and the exact same argument. It is. It is. And my favorite counter to that is like, yeah,

because you've seen us pumping up Texas when they weren't good because of the Longhorn Network this whole time. I mean, we did a game package with BYU. And I mean, the thing about the Longhorn Network was as soon as they signed that deal, Texas ended up not holding up. Everything was great except for the part where Texas football all of a sudden took a massive downturn.

And no one was ever saying, make sure you talk up the SEC. And as I mentioned in the open, I think people were so used to or assumed there was so much going on behind the scenes at ESPN with promoting the SEC that, and I said this in the open,

so I'm sharing it with you. I feel like Fox was like, hey, let's just trash the SEC. Let's count on this. I think Fox is more biased anti-SEC than ESPN was ever pro-SEC, but Fox thinks they're doing it to counterbalance some conspiracy that I don't think really ever happened anyway. But anyway, all right, so let me finish my five here before we go down that. I've got Embiid four, and i have kevin durant five i think the durant

thing is a massive sleeping on him we can talk achilles big guys never i just even durant at 90 has a chance to still be the best player in the league for the next couple years and i think it's really smart by you because i'm agreeing with you i guess but whenever we do these who would you want the next, you know, when you're talking about starting your franchise, to say, oh, the next 10 years, don't give me Devin Booker because he's a couple years younger than Kawhi, just because Kawhi's eight.

You know, like, I'll be okay season 28 to 32. I don't need a guy to be a couple years younger who's not even close to being as good as far as carrying a team, even though Devin Booker and my surprise sons, and i'm calling them my surprise sons because on the preview i was like hey this team's actually not terrible take the over kelly uber let's go kelly kelly kelly uber is one of the biggest turnarounds of all time seriously i couldn't stand i can't believe he's as good as he is i really i i mean i i just feel like guys like that don't usually work out and he worked out so So good for him.

So do you hate the Durant call? No. So you know what's funny? We actually had an off-air conversation about this. I had it with some of the guys behind the scenes. One of the guys was like, hey, if Durant wasn't hurt, where would he be on this list? And I'm like, oh, easily in the top five. I don't care that he's 31.

I think he's going to be fine. Just turned 31. I think I'd probably have him... He would definitely be five. I would definitely have him five at least if he was healthy, maybe even higher. I think it's an interesting call by you. I just don't know. He's going to miss this year.

Is he 31 right now? I think he's 31 right now. 31 in September. Okay. So next year he'll be 32. Yeah, I get it. So you would rather have... So I'm getting him 32, 33, and 34. No, but I'm saying I got 32, 33.

No, I didn't. I put him... He was in the mix. Like Jokic should be brought up. Why isn't Jokic brought up as much as Doncic? That was a good point, is that because I was sort of debating at five because I had Embiid at five, and I was like, do I put

like, because it was between Kat, it was between Jokic, and it was between Embiid. Kat was a little bit further outside, so it was mostly between Jokic and Embiid, and I ultimately went with Embiid just because I think, as you said, he if he's right, and he and what he's capable of being, he might be the best player in the league.

So that's why I gave him the Navajo, because it's 100% that conversation. I had Lillard in there, because Lillard's 29. I still think you're getting three, four, five years of Pete Lillard left. I think his game will probably age fine. Who else is in that? I'm trying to think. Did I have I didn't

I mean his eye on the other one that was like a total wild card now you can't do that I can't put him in there but I want to put him as an honorable mention just to be like I don't know

if he actually is healthy he could be that guy but I didn't I had him as an honorable mention retract that because that's absurd like you know what here's a simple rule

play a game before I put you ahead of 445 other players that I'd want to start a franchise with. Harden just turned 30. I wonder if there's anybody saying, hey, if you do the Durant thing, why wouldn't you do the Harden thing? Harden's going to be more durable or as durable as probably anybody because just the way he plays. And I don't think he stresses himself. I wanted to kid around and be like, if we're doing Doncic, where's John Morant? Because I have a massive

crush on John Morant. He is just absolute looking to kill. But he's that guy. I'm telling you right now, I've seen enough in the first two weeks where I go, the way he plays, the way he sees things, I'm not saying he's going to be the best point guard in the NBA, but I have big hopes for him that he is a franchise-changing kind of player when, you know, realistically there's about seven or eight of those guys

maybe at tops and you could even if you want to be more difficult i always say you could whittle that list down to maybe three guys but hard and turning 30 at least deserves to be mentioned and as i was trying to jump in there that gm list which is so much fun and really good at times and then also has a chance to be really absurd based on recency bias but But Carl Anthony Towns won that thing the year after Anthony Davis won it a couple years ago. Carl Anthony Towns won it in a runaway. And now nobody mentions it. So, look, I'm not telling you I have Doncic way down.

I think he's awesome. Like, I don't like doing this now because it sounds like now I'm going to become an anti-Doncic guy. I'm not. I watch that game too. I watch these games. He is so comfortable. He's played in more big games than any young player that we've seen in a really long time, including the guys that played at Duke.

But to have him second or suggest to have him first, like I said, Simmons is going to fire me and replace me with you once your contract expires because of your love for Luka. Get me on the hottest take. I'll do it. But hey, that actually brought up a good point with the John Morant thing because we had Bukeron.

Bukeron is another guy who loves John Morant. I think John is another guy we have that loves him as well. But I actually, I didn't have him on there because it wasn't, you know, it'd be good to have him on there. But the one guy that I didn't mention was, so would you take, would you take,

uh, John Moran over Trey Young? Yeah, I would. Um, and you know, I know everybody thinks I hate Trey Young and I don't, I'm really happy for Trey Young.

And what happened was that thing aggregated to hell, but I went on the Woj pod and just said, Hey, you know, it's one of the things if, if we're doing this where it's like, Oh my God, look at Trey.

And then it becomes kind of the next thing, right? Like the next qualifier of how good or bad somebody is going to be. I'm're doing this where it's like, oh my God, look at Trey. And then it becomes kind of the next thing, right? Like the next qualifier of how good or bad somebody is going to be. I'm like, if this guy's truly, truly going to be a star, like he has moments where he is, I said, single-minded. And then that turned into that he doesn't pass. I'm like, no, you know, but the thing is like when you have the ball that much, you're going to get assists.

Like would anybody in the world say Westbrook's this amazing playmaker? Well, I mean, if you've watched him, no, it's like, hey, I'm going to dribble around a million times, and if I can't find anything on my own, just be ready to catch it and do something with it. And the fact that Oklahoma City, I think, bumped him up like 30% in the assist rate anyway when he was at home because if you dig into his home away assist splits, it's actually kind of like, whoa, what the hell's going on here?

So Trey in that – what game was it what game was it san antonio game i logged his his fourth quarter possessions because i was like all right let's see what see what we got here and it was hilarious because it was like everybody was right all at the same time me and then the people that hate me because he had four straight possessions and i don't remember the order of it because i ended up like once he went off i'm like okay you can put this game a long way because he's he's been incredible here to close but he had four straight possessions in the fourth quarter where he took a three without passing anybody else missed it took another three they got the offensive rebound he ran to the top of the key and this is the thing

that I see sometimes that I think is just funny and he like was asking for the ball back and the guy in the wing was like nope and then threw it back into the post and didn't give it to him and then he drove the rim and got blocked by the rim and then i think he had like a turnover so that was like four out of five possessions where i go oh he's having this disastrous fourth quarter and then he made that pass to bembrie the no look where he absolutely worked lamarcus aldridge with the dribble and it was an awesome dribble an even better pass and then he hit a bunch of threes and he was incredible to close the very end.

So yeah, like that's all it is. It's just, there's some little moments that it's a player who's, who's turned this thing around in a big time way. And, you know, we've been over this,

how much he got crushed and all that stuff. But yeah, it's just like these little things that I'll notice with him, but that got turned into like, I think he sucks and he never passes. And it's like, no, that's not what I said,

but now I'm doing that thing where I'm talking to just people on social media. But it's always weird when, like, team blogs pick it up because then they leak it out to everybody. And then now all of a sudden guys that don't even know what the hell I'm saying just decide that it's, like, on. And whatever. Yeah. That's just the way it works. It becomes a game of telephone and just bash for something that I was actually looking to firsthand. But I would say I think I had Trey in the honorable mention list,

but I don't think I'm as high. I don't know if I'm more bullish on him, but the one worry I have about him is that he's even smaller than Steph. I worry about not saying his ankle roll is any sort of indication that he has an injury-prone history ahead of him or anything like that. But I do sort of worry, has there always been that small guard thing when it comes to playoff basketball?

Small guards just sort of struggle, right? And for as good as Steph is, I think Steph was helped out by the Warriors system. And I do think there are ways that he was helped out by the Warriors system, and I do think there are ways that he was able to showcase the best version of Steph. I don't know that Trey is going to get. Trey tries to do everything by himself, and that team is completely

dependent on him. Let's get to another one that I did. I did the... I hated this one, but it was the guys in the league. The reason that we do the listing, by the way, once a week is because of the noise. Yeah. So that's that's like part of the fun of it. I love doing this stuff. It's good. It's good content.

No, let's do it. He secretly loves it, though. So that's a good part about it. But I we rank the players that their teams are most dependent on. So not not like saying like, oh, you know, my basic logic in it was like, if you take this player off this team, how many losses, how many more, you know, how has it impacted wins and losses? What's the greatest amount of that?

And I looked at, I put Trey Young in the top five because I look at the Hawks and I go without Trey Young, like he does literally everything for them. He's their entire offense, their entire system. He makes things go like other than him. Like I like John Collins and I like some of the other guys, but I don't think they're doing anything on their own. So I had him as one of the most important players to their team. I think that is true, but I do worry about him

come playoff time. If he's going to be able to do the stuff that he's been doing early on in the season, I just have my doubts so far. I wasn't one of those people that downed a bunch of other people that we had on that. I think Perk was one of them too. It was like Hawks are 100% a playoff team this year i'm just like i just don't know if i'm ready to go that far yet like they're so young like i subscribe to your theory

that you know it takes team like young guys don't typically win games in the league and their team is still so young like they still they're starting a rookie even though i like deandre hunter i still have no idea what cam reddish is going to be like and even some of their other like more established players are still really young. So I wasn't really ready to put them in the playoffs just yet. And I'm still like, even though Trey Young has had this amazing start, and he's looked awesome, and he's looked like the reincarnation of Steph Curry, I'm going to need to see more than, like, you know,

because even some of his stuff last year, I know a lot of people wanted to pick him for, he was like the late-coming rookie of the year guy, and some people thought he should have won it over Dodgers. But I, I disagree with it. Even if you look at some of his three point shooting numbers, like they weren't, they weren't super impressive last year at the end of the year,

he started shooting a little bit better, but they weren't like out of his mind. Like, Oh my God, this guy's unbelievable. And I think he had a good, like, you know,

three, four game stretch started season before we got her. And I'm just not ready to go all in on Trey young just yet. But whatever it is, it's way better than people thought when they didn't even think he was going to make it in the league. So I'm just not ready to go all in on Trey Young just yet. Yeah, but whatever it is, it's way better than people thought when they didn't even think he was going to make it in the league. So I'm with you. There's definitely GMs that have told me,

hey, we have a rule about small point guards come playoff time. But you know what? This kid has done so much, and there's way more positive than my nitpicking on his fourth quarters on those possessions. But it's just something I notice when it's like, okay, but the point guard's job is different now because you've got to okay, but you know, the, the point guards job is, it's different now because you got to score,

but you also got to keep people happy at times too. But he has, for the most part, it's like a 90, 10 thing, you know, don't let the 10% get in the way to 90%. And that's kind of what I've probably been guilty of here.

All right. Before we let you go, does Scal have any awesome Kyrie stories that he told you off the air that he doesn't want to share that you want to burn him on and tell us? No, but I mean, he's very, he's very, not dispensive of him, but he doesn't think Kyrie is like the reason that the Celtics were a disaster alone last year, which I sort of, I guess I understand a little bit more. Like he blamed it a little bit more on some of the other guys. I sort of, I guess I understand a little bit more. Like, he blames it a little bit more on some of the other guys.

Now, Kendrick Perkins, who comes on all the time, who is like the new media darling, by the way, he's come on a bunch of times, and he just absolutely trashes Kyrie every chance he gets. And he doesn't hide it whatsoever. Scal has not said anything specifically. Yeah, Scal, Perk is not a, Perk is not a, I believe the direct quote from Perk was that they got the cancer out of the locker room. He said that multiple times on the show. And Pascal was a little bit softer on it. Right, but when he did that thing, he's like,

man, you were happy in Cleveland, and now you ain't happy in Boston. It was so funny. I'm glad that I got to meet Perk a couple times and talk with him, because I do think, though, he is the most biased guy when it comes to the NBA like if he hates you then he just hates you forever he hates the Warriors he hates Steph he thinks Steve Kerr sucks and I see his tweets and then just right but then if it's like his dude like LeBron's this guy then and that's it and that's also by the way why he when I'm from the outside and I didn't understand it as well, now seeing him, meeting him, and seeing how he talks about his guys,

that's why everybody loved that guy as a teammate, which now I totally get it. Before I let you go, where can we find your show again? All right, so it is called Scallon Pals. It's on radio.com, part of radio.com sports. If you download the radio.com app, you can watch or listen to the show live. We're on from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. Eastern every day. But you can also download podcasts. We do full interviews, do a full show.

We do a best of. Just search Scallon Pals. It's available wherever you find podcasts. And, yeah, man, it's been really fun. Like I said, we've had – one of one of the coolest things is, you know, getting to know guys like Perk and getting to know guys like Scal, Karam Butler, and some of these other guys. And, you know, Perk is, the one thing I'll say about Perk too, Ryan, is like, yeah, he is very like loyal and defensive of his guys, right? But he did tell us a story that was, that kind of made me, I already like respect Perk a ton, but it made me kind of respect him even more if that even makes sense. I already respect Perk a ton, but it made me respect him even more, if that even makes sense. He told us that he told Kevin Durant that he should not have played. Now, he and Kevin Durant are boys.

He loves Kevin Durant. KD's one of his guys, too. And he said that he and KD did not speak for over a month because Perk told him he should not have gone back into the finals. And KD did not like it. But that's one of the things. Perk isn't just a yes man. He doesn't just blindly follow his guys. He will stick his neck out even to guys that he loves.

And he said that his relationship with KD was strained for a while because he gave him the advice to not play in the finals, which obviously ended up not working out for Kevin Durant at all. You guys are going to do more of that. You should do a weekly story that Perk has never told before. Like, why do you hate this guy? You know what you should do is come up with the Perk hate list and then have him tell a story of why he hates all the guys he hates

because he hates a lot of guys. This is, that is an unbelievably great idea. The list is almost infinite and it's so good because he's so honest. Like, he doesn't care. Like, I don't know if you saw,

he and a Timberwolves social media account were beefing and he came on our show and was like yelling. He was like, yeah, well, my picture and my name is on my twitter account who's this coward behind the t-wolves you know twitter account tweet at me he's not putting his name on stuff and it's just like it's it's stuff like that that makes perk like so unbelievably awesome to be around to have on yeah yeah i'm not

a huge fan of team accounts that talk shit just to get like a reaction out of it i mean unless it's really clever i'll be like oh you know what that's good that's pretty good but more often than not they're they're paraphrasing lies and you're like what what is this shit i don't want to deal with this really quick on the way out i know we all have a ton of time i do i not in the honor of the magic minute to bring that back by the way we do the false false now to do on the show so i give like a weekly not even a weekly just whenever i feel like the fault whenever i feel like there needs to be a markel false update i give it on the show so that's that's basically taken the place of the Magic Minute. But for good old times' sake, I want to ask you this

because the Magic off to a 2-5, 2-6 start, it's been bad. It was the same start they had last year, but I'm sort of freaking out right now because they paid all these guys, Ryan. And, you know, I like a lot of the guys in the roster. Like, you know me. I love Jonathan Isaac. I'm an Aaron Gordon guy.

I like Boots. I don't love Boots. They gave him a ton of money. But I keep looking at this roster and I go, this thing is a disaster. Like, do they... I feel like they...

And I know there's been two regimes that have sort of put this thing together. Like, the Hammond group has now come in and drafted guys like Isaac and whatnot, but in building this team,

it's like they hated their fan base because every single win, like, they have the worst offense in basketball by, like, a wide margin. I believe, like, their net rating on offense is four points worse than the 29th team in the league. Like, they are atrocious to watch. They miss constant wide-open shots.

Like, the only silver lining is that Jonathan Isaac looks like a future defensive player of the year candidate. He should obviously start shooting more. They are the absolute worst team to watch in the league. It's a chore. It takes years off of my life watching this team night in and night out because of how terrible the basketball product is.

I just had to get a rant there from the Magic really quick. I don't think they're going to be as bad as this for the entire season, but it is just a terrible terrible watch right we went over our time and then you forced in a magic update that i didn't even want and i doubt people needed but that's just you evolving as an on-air guy because you just wouldn't shut up about it and that's what i love that's a huge sign that's that's the most positive thing of anything we just did is that you're like six months ago you wouldn't shut up about it. And that's what I love. That's a huge sign. That's the most positive thing of anything we just did is that you're like,

six months ago you wouldn't have done that, and now you did it. And by the way, their offensive rating is worth looking at because it is last in the league and it's four points worse than Nick's, which is like, when it comes to that kind of number, some of you may just be like, whatever. That's an insanely bad number to be four points worse

than the next worst offense, which is also the Nick's. Okay, I'll talk to you soon. Alright, dude. Thanks for having me on. Hey, Kyle, was that weird for you? Knowing that, like, Cerruti used to be my guy, and now you're my guy? Or do you worry about where you're ranked? I put the pieces together during it. I was like, oh, this is strange. Cool.

Do you think you'll be hosting a show on the NBA with Scalabrini in three years? Damn, I hope not, dude. Hmm. There you go. More of a meta guy. You are. You are. But that's on the NBA with Scalabrini in three years? Damn, I hope not, dude. There you go. Behind the scenes. More of a meta guy. You are. You are. But that's where we like you there because we're comfortable and we know what we're supposed to get.

All right, before we shut this thing down, live from Boston, as I mentioned at the top, ordering a custom fit shirt has never been easier thanks to Proper Cloth. I actually passed a couple shirts today at designer places because I know Proper Cloth has a few coming my way. Proper Cloth shirts are completely custom made for you and start at just 80 bucks which is awesome by the way so you're guaranteed to find a style you love with quality that doesn't break the bank go to propercloth.com slash ryan rossillo that's r-y-e-n-r-u-s-s-i-l-l-o today and enter gift code

again ryan rossillo to save 20 off your first shirt That's propercloth.com slash RyanRosillo. So enjoy the weekend. I'm on my way to Alabama, and I'm going to go watch Alabama play LSU again. And it is honestly one of my favorite things I get to do in my entire life. And so I'm going to keep doing it as long as I possibly can. Subscribe, rate, and review the Russillo podcast, part of the Ringer Network. Thank you. you