The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Chiefs' Unexpected Secret Weapon and 15 Years of RedZone With Scott Hanson. Plus, the Police Drummer Stewart Copeland.

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

Russillo starts by breaking down the Chiefs' victory over the Broncos and explains why the Chiefs defense is their secret weapon (1:00). Next, he’s joined by RedZone host Scott Hanson to learn how the show has grown, pick his brain on the best NFL teams, and question him on some late-game scenarios (14:00). Then, the Police drummer Stewart Copeland comes on to share his musical background, stories about meeting Sting, and more from his new book (55:00). Finally, Ceruti and Kyle join to make this week’s Alliance Parlay (91:00) before closing the show with some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (98:00). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Scott Hanson and Stewart Copeland Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

here's what we're doing today thursday night football recap who are the chiefs in 2023 we're talking football we're talking red zone best season ever i think season 15 for scott hansen so scott's gonna stop by with us and this is a big deal for me from the police one of the greatest drummers of all time stewart copeland his book is out the police diaries we're going to stop by with us. And this is a big deal for me from the police. One of the greatest drummers of all time, Stuart Copeland. His book is out, The Police Diaries. We're going to talk to him about the police, maybe even a little oyster head in there, and life advice in the FanDuel Alliance picks. Enjoy. A little Thursday night football recap for you. So we've got another Kansas City win. They're five and one. They beat Denver. You already knew that part. Going into the game, it was the first time in Mahomes' career that he'd be facing the

worst statistical defense in the NFL for that season. Worst time. First time, I guess, for the worst time. We knew coming in, we had mentioned it, Denver, because we were talking about Russell Wilson a little bit this week. They were allowing over 36 points per game. Not great. And 450 yards.

You're like, man, Kansas City is going to light these dudes up. But that's not really what happened, is it? Kansas City had five trips inside the red zone, only one touchdown. They are now 17th in red zone touchdown percentage, just over 54%. Last year, they were the number two red zone touchdown percentage team in the NFL at 71%, right behind the Buffalo Bills. So that's a little weird, right? It almost felt like Kansas City at times wasn't really even taking Denver seriously. Like, hey, these guys aren't really going to be, you know, like they'll break eventually defensively. I mean, kind of shout out to Denver's defense after being so

disastrous for the start of the season to keep Kansas City out of the end zone that many times. When you're giving up one touchdown to Mahomes, that's pretty good for a defense that I still, like, I can be guilty of this at times, but there's a few guys on this team I like. Like, they shouldn't be this bad on defense. And yeah, week to week, you hear about how bad you are, you get mad, it's a shorter week, you're fired up,

nobody thinks you can beat Kansas City. Kansas City, Kansas City. We just don't understand the human nature of some of these matchups, how on a certain week, something that doesn't make any sense is the thing that happens. But Mahomes was picked. Again, he had another pick that was called back on the pass interference, which is why the pick even happened. So that one definitely doesn't count. The first one or the only one that was into the end zone that looked terrible. You're like, what kind of throw was that?

You go back and look and see that his arm was hit on that one. So it sounds like I'm making excuses for a bit. I just think that when you look at interceptions, there are like five different categories of interceptions. I don't know that we'll ever come to a point statistically where we figure that out, but they're just not all the same. It is now the highest interception percentage of just throws. What percentage of throws do you throw interceptions on? He's at

like just over 2% of his throws, which is the highest since he threw, I think it was 2.9 his rookie year. So it's higher this year than any other year since his rookie year or his first, you know, even then he only played like one game. So none of this is all that relevant. It's just that it technically, if you hear somebody say, hey, highest ever, really in a full season, it's not that dramatically different or dramatically worse than it was even last year. I think it's 2.2 now, 1.9 last year. But there was another part of me that wondered if Kansas City was just kind of screwing around because they knew that it was Denver.

The fake field goal, you know, it didn't work. We love that stuff when it works with Andy Reid. So I'm not going to sit here and say you can't do that there. If anything, you probably could because it's Denver. The fake field goal, it didn't work. We love that stuff when it works with Andy Reid, so I'm not going to sit here and say you can't do that there. If anything, you probably could because it's Denver. There was eight minutes left in the second quarter, and it was still pretty close. Just once, just once, never going to happen. All the players that are on the field when it's a fourth down and it could be good or it could be short, I'd love to see a guy from the opposing team, like the offense. And he just kind of points the other way. He's like, yeah, we're short.

Just once. I would love to see it. I'd have the guy on the podcast. It is the most, well, I should say it's the least objective moment in the history of mankind. It's impossible. You've got 20 guys out there all pointing the direction like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're good. We got it. It's good. It's good. You can't even see it. We can't see it. You can't even see it sometimes. So they're stuffed on the fake field goal, whatever. They had later on the Kadarius Tony play, which is supposed to be the zone read. It looked more like the zone I hate reading. He kept the ball and went left. And you're supposed to read like one edge guy. There were three waiting for him. And the blocking actually worked for the running back on it. And Tony was like,

no, I'm going. I'm going. Herbstreit even said, he's like, that was predetermined. So there was that play and whatever, none of it really mattered because actually Denver couldn't do anything offensively. I asked myself in a moment, if you've been listening to me over the years, it's not Russell Wilson, the player, it's Russell Wilson, the speaker. There's next to zero value in any commentary that he has. He will start to answer a question and he works himself into this fury of excitement. And then he gives you kind of like a build answer, a bigger build answer. And then the final boss, it's like these three levels to the answer and they're all pointless. But he had been better this year. So as bad as Denver's been, the talk that it was

directly related to him, look, we already ran through the defensive numbers going into last night. But now that he has last night's game on his resume for the season, 13 to 22, 95 yards, two picks, one was tipped. But there were a couple of plays in there. Now, granted, he got his Kirk Cousins touchdown there late. It looked like they may even cover the spread, 10 and a half. Nope. But he had a fourth down play early where they didn't get the conversion and he just kind of ran around and you're like, well, at least throw it. You've been playing this game a long time. If you're go, if you're short of the sticks, it's over. If you throw a pick, who cares? And I don't know, there's some guys that love

those end to halves, 70 yards that they get for free or the down 14 points, 70 yards, they kind of get for free. And they're like, just don't throw a pick. I'm going to move it here. And instead of having 210, I'll have 280 or instead of having 150, I'll have 220, or maybe I'll even get to 300. I mean, there's so many games where I look at it at the end and be like, that guy had 300 yards. I didn't even think he played well. Where did the 300 yards come from? So with Wilson, he's been playing long enough that early in the game to not just give up the possession. You're better off in that spot throwing the pick, and he didn't do that. He also had another throw at the end of the first half

where I'll look back at the timeline here because it's actually pretty amazing what actually happened. Denver gets the ball back. They've got two timeouts. They're trying to figure out if they can just get down the field for a field goal here with less than a minute to go in the half. I think it was 47 seconds left in the half. They went three and out. And in one of the plays, I think the second down throw, he had a throw to Courtland Sutton, which was so low that

Sutton wasn't even going to be able to get out of bounds. And now you're kind of in between where everybody wants you to call a timeout, but you're like, I guess we should call a timeout. We have two of them, so we're not burning the field goal set up timeout. But at the same time, if we don't get the third down, what's going to happen on the other side with Kansas City? And that's exactly what happened. So the Sutton throw, even though it was a completion, was actually just a terrible throw.

And then Kansas City gets the ball back with 14 seconds, three plays, then they kick a field goal. And now you're Denver who can't score for some reason, but it's hanging in there defensively. And now you gave up three points because you went three and out on the, you got the ball back with less than a minute in the two timeouts, and you couldn't even prevent Kansas City from getting back and actually scoring. And the Sutton throw kind of left them in between like, what do we do here? Denver's calling a timeout. Now you have Kansas City calling a timeout and you're like, all right, maybe we shouldn't have called a timeout, but then it feels like you're

not being aggressive enough. So for Wilson, who has the worst game of his season and it happening on prime time, prime time theory, Sunday, Monday, and Thursday night, that's like four bad games in a row. No one's going to believe if you weren't watching that he was actually a little bit better this year than he was last year. But now some of the numbers, the completion percentage is still higher. The QBR stuff took a massive hit last night. I mean, it's one of the worst games he's had in a while. And so you bake it all in, and now it looks statistically like he's the same guy

as he was last year, and that really wasn't the case. So look, he's not great. Like I mentioned, there was a couple of plays in there, but I almost felt some sympathy for him, some sympathy for him being like, if this is the only time you've watched him for a full game, then you don't want to hear that he's actually better this year uh with sean payton so that brings us back to kansas city five and one like we mentioned at the top they've got the one point loss to detroit on opening night remember no kelsey no chris jones their second

and third best player i have loved what they have done defensively with the assets they put in here i think bolton even missed the game, the linebacker. But there's just guys I see. Maybe I just remember them more because they're more recent coming out of college and everything. But I'm just going like, oh, I think that guy's pretty good or that guy's pretty good. So let's look at who Kansas City is this year versus last year because there is a story going on here. Because I think at 5-1, because of the standard that we hold Kansas City to, and we see San Francisco have their Dallas win,

we see Philly, although we can get a little greedy where if you're a Super Bowl contender, we want a game like San Francisco had against Dallas. We're like, okay, those guys are for real. They check every box, beat a really good team, destroyed them. Miami's got their 70-pointer against this Denver team. And it looked like Kansas City just had a hard time the entire night. So some of the other Super Bowl contenders, they feel like they've had at least one resume game.

For all of us to go, okay, well, when they've got a role in, that's what they can do. And maybe even Philly's a little below a lofty standard that can be a little unfair. I just love the way they've controlled games. And I've talked about that against Minnesota, against the Rams this past week. We did that on Monday. But with Kansas City, it feels a little different because this is like three straight wins that are all kind of weird. The Jets win where it's really up to Mahomes to kind of just run around all night. You're like, that was a game. Minnesota, you know, lay touchdown, whatever. Even Denver.

I mean, another classic NFL game. You're going like, wait, if they get the ball back, they're going to have the ball down a score? Like, how did that happen? Like, they haven't done anything tonight. Although, again, they played really good defense. But if you look at the offensive stats this season in comparison to last year, this year, Kansas City's

seventh in yards per game, about 382, ninth in scoring, 25 points per game. Last year, they were number one in yards per game, over 413. So a drop of, I don't know, 30 plus yards. They were number one in scoring offense at 29 points per game. So they're down like five points per game from where they were last year. But here actually may be the real story because if you're a Chiefs fan, and I have them on all the time because I just love watching my homes, it does feel a little different. It does feel like the receivers are all figuring out. It looks like the rookie might be the real guy out of this entire group here. They likely would have been undefeated if Kelsey even played in week one.

So it's like, what are you really asking? It's hard to win in this league. But the defensive story, I think, is the bigger story. This year, they're 15 yards allowed per game, 284. Last year, they were 11th at 328. They were 16th in opponent scoring last season. So middle of the pack, they gave up just over 21 points per game. They're a full touchdown better now, allowing 14.7. It's number two in the NFL behind San Francisco. This defense appears to be for real. We thought maybe it was happening against Jacksonville. Mahomes is always going to bail you out, but he hasn't really had to bail them out of as many situations as he has in the past. Because if you go through all the defensive rankings from Mahomes' first season on, the opponent's scoring is actually a little bit better.

But some of the metric stuff is going to do with him as it does the defense, which may actually be scarier long-term this season. So I'm with you. We want it to be 30-plus. We want to see two ridiculous touchdowns. We want to see it be the best offense. And it hasn't been that, but what it has been is the best defensive unit statistically Mahomes has ever had in Kansas City as a starter.

Snap into action this NFL season with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. Right now, new customers get $200 in bonus bets guaranteed when you place a $5 bet. That's $200 in bonus bets, win or lose. Okay, let's take a look at the NFL slate here. I kind of like, it's got to happen at some point. I kind of like New England plus two and a half at Vegas. And I also feel like Philly minus seven at New York. That feels like something.

Yeah, so there you go. Philly and New England. I mean, look, if can't can't be competitive in this game right and they're getting the two and a half like if like if it's not gonna happen this week then we can just write them off so that's kind of like a this week deal as bad as they've looked so there you go if you've been thinking about joining fanduel there's no better time to get in on the action the app is easy to use there's a wide range of betting options and some great new product features

like the Explore tab for the simplest way to bet, the Parlay Hub to see what is trending now, and a ton of new live betting options and more. And FanDuel is now live in Kentucky. Download the app now and take advantage of their great special offers, boosts, and more. So visit FanDuel.com slash Ryan, R-Y-E-N, and kick

off the NFL season. FanDuel, official partner of the NFL. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. First online real money wager. Only $10 Excited to do this. We watch him every Sunday. I'm back in the mix, too, because I missed him for a little while based on my service provider. But we got Scott Hansen, NFL Network, Red Zone. 15 years. Is this your 15th season doing this?

Can you believe it? Season 15, my man. Very blessed. Very thankful. I had to look and then I was like, wait, do I have this wrong? That flew by. 15 years of doing this. Yeah, the first time we came on, the very, very first show,

it was Brett Favre's last go-around with the Minnesota Vikings. It was Kyle Orton's debut as the Denver Broncos' starting quarterback. And then guys like Maurice Jones-Drew was still in the league back then. Brandon Stokely was a Denver Bronco. I'm trying to think of that very first show. So, yeah, the staying power has been good. It's been good. Well, it's a great product.

We all know that. And I, even this season, and I finally mention it because I meant to always kind of write it down and bring it up. kind of write it down and bring it up. I don't know if it was a conscious decision or not, but I feel like you have never been better as far as deciding the priority of what to go to, where, you know, I know red zone is the concept, but I'd always wanted that rule broken when it was a game that didn't really matter. Is this something I'm noticing or is it specific to this year or the last couple of years? Yeah, that's a good question. But thank you for the compliment because we, our whole staff tries to get better every single show, every single season. And getting better for us is not reinventing how we do things, but just I equate it to like a pro golfer. Let's say we're a top 20 in the world ranked golfer, but we want to be ranked

number one in the world. The difference between 20 and one is maybe one stroke every four rounds. So we look for little things here and there. And to your point, yes, the show's called NFL Red Zone, but if I've got a 35 to seven game with two teams sub-500 and that game's inside the 20, but I got a team that just crossed midfield in a 20-17 game with playoff contenders, there is no choice to me. And so what we'll say back channel when my mic is not hot, my producers and I will go, okay, the whatever, fill in the blank game, the Cowboys game is touchdown only. Meaning, yeah, if they get to the 19-yard line, that's great, but that game's already been decided. It's a three-score game, whatever. We're going touchdown only, meaning we're not going to show first and 10 from the 19-yard line there. We'll show you the touchdown immediately after it happens, if it happens. And if it's a field goal, fine. So yeah, there's those type of decisions. And then there's just

the mix of games. I'll just reveal this to you. The broadcast partners of the NFL, Fox and CBS, with the early and late window packages, have been very, very interested, let's say, in the proliferation of NFL Red Zone through the years. So they have spoken to us, not to us on the staff, but to senior, senior, senior high management at the NFL about, you know, Red Zone kind of needs to be done this way. It should, you know, you zone kind of needs to be done this way. It should, you know, you guys should, you should do it this way. So I, so as to make sure that the audience is, is spread as far wide possible as possible to them. I'm euphemizing this to you, Ryan, you could probably tell.

Well, yeah. I mean, I would understand their position too, where it's like, Hey, if this is the game of the week, especially the way they'll set it up for the four o'clock window. Like I didn't really understand it until I understood the business is like, Oh, we get less games because whatever that four o'clock Fox game is or whatever, you know, like they want that to have less competition and it just makes sense. So they can take that number and go, this is the number that we're capable of in this window, depending on the matchup with less options, uh, in the one o'clock window. And if you were just to be running every single series of that game while they've paid for the rights to it, uh, that would make sense.

Like their, their position is understood. And, you know, I think at times with red zone, like it's really perfect for my job, right? When you're doing national stuff at ESPN and you feel like you kind of have your foot in a bunch of different things, but it's, it's really perfect for my job right when you're doing national stuff at espn and you feel like you kind of have your foot in a bunch of different things but it's it's not even close to what it would be where when i was working in local markets where i would know the ins and outs of the team perfectly and you know i've always said this with you too like if you're only watching red zone you can kind of lose the feel of like things that are happening inside of a game so again this is my job. So I have multiple screen setup and that kind of thing, but whatever it is, it just has felt like there's

a more in-depth version of the story of the games that matter. And that's, that's what I've liked about it, where if it were a really important game later in the season, but it was played at midfield where it was a field position game, you may not have checked in with that as much as you do now. That's just at least my observation. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you said a couple of things there that I'd like to comment on. One, as it relates to you understanding the network's position on that with them trying to get the biggest number that they can.

Let me just tell you and our audience something that's been different in the last couple of years are our new sign-off rules. We are restricted now. We weren't in the past, but we are restricted now when there's what we call the last game standing. So the late window, end of red zone, if and when it gets down to we've got four in the late window this Sunday. If and when it gets down to we've got four in the late window this Sunday and when three of them have gone final, we're restricted to signing off and pushing people to their local Fox or CBS station to see the conclusion of the Cowboys Patriots game or whatever the last game standing may be. Now, there's some there's some wiggle room within there. If the game's only got like 60 seconds in it.

We're going to show you the remainder of it. But if that game's on the plus side of the two-minute warning, the broadcast networks want us sending all of our audience to them for, obviously, for ratings reasons. So what I'm trying to appeal to your audience is don't blame me when I got to say, sorry, folks, parks closed after you've gone the whole way with that. And I'll make a second comment, but I can see you want to chime in there. No, no, go ahead. Keep going. I think there's a lot of people that still were confused by that. But again, you're the broadcast partner. I mean, it just makes sense. And look at their job. The broadcast networks is to maximize their number and get the most out of the billions of dollars that they're spending with the NFL. My job is to give NFL fans the absolute best possible viewing experience they can. So there is some friction there. There are some competing

interests there. I get angry about it because it's, you know, all politics are local. This is our show, my show. And so I want to fight to give the audience everything that I can, but I'm also not an executive at that level that's making those type of choices. So I take my orders and I march when I have to. So that's why. That's why if you see a sign off and all of a sudden I say, okay, we'll check with your, you know, your local Fox or CBS, whatever that last game standing is being broadcast on. And hopefully they flip the whole audience to that game. We have come up against a situation and it infuriated me last year, two years ago, it was last year, Seattle and Las Vegas. So that was a regional

game. This was not the national game being pushed to everybody. And the game went into overtime. So obviously it was the last game standing in the late window after we had the other two or three, however many there were, signed off. And I had to say, OK, check with your local, I think it was CBS station, and only Las Vegas and Seattle got that game. So when people flipped over, it was 60 minutes, you know, for 90 something percent of the nation. Right. And then, of course, it was a one score game. And Josh Jacobs has a walk off 80 yard touchdown to end the game, and almost nobody saw it. We're a pay channel that people spend seven hours with every single Sunday, and it infuriated people. I felt embarrassed. I still

do about it because I was told, I was told incorrect, but I was told that the rest of the country would be able to see that, and it didn't turn out to be true. And I felt like I hidied people in here in, you know, 2022. Uh, so that was, that was frustrating, but just to, just so everyone's clear on that, I haven't said this on many podcasts at all. So if people end up Googling it to find out what the rules are, what, what the restrictions, I guess I would call them are that that's it. That's where we're at. Okay. Yeah. Look, and again, it makes sense. And I appreciate the clarification. You're one of the few rational people about it, Ryan. You can you can guess what my social media looks like when people think that all of a sudden the guy who wants to show America more football than anyone breathing.

America more football than anyone breathing, all of a sudden I decided to say, yeah, you know what? Yeah, that game's 24-21 with 2-12 left and the trailing teams got the football, but I think I'm done. I think I want to go get some Chinese and watch Sunday night football. I'm out of here. Yeah, people are shocker. People are not rational about it, but I hope that they, maybe somebody listens to this segment right here and understands it. Maybe you gave me the answer then, because I wanted to ask you this, because there's clearly way more to it than what we get from you. And you have to judge, do I jump in?

Do I not? Do I give a little analysis? Do I give a little backstory? Like, how do you figure it? Now, granted, you've hit your groove now. I'd imagine the beginning, like if I'd had to do this job in the beginning of my career, I would have talked way too much. You know, I would have been like, Hey, I'm going to show everybody how ready I am for this. Uh, cause that's what I did with play by play baseball. But what, what is balance for you? What makes sense when you're getting to

that witching hour and trying to give the best product people can get? Yeah, that's a great question because I do. I prepare my tail off for this. I don't ever want to get caught with my pants down. And, you know, if Joe Buck's calling a game, he's got two teams, two rosters, two fan bases at large. The whole country's watching when it's a buck Monday night game, of course, but that are watching when I'm doing my show, I got 32 fan bases. Basically, I've got 32 fan bases that are watching. And if I make the slightest mistake, it feels like to me, it's magnified. So I want to over-prepare, but as a broadcaster and you know, this, I know this, when you, when you prepare so much, you want to demonstrate to everyone, you know, I'm ready for this. Oh, you know what? I knew that those two guys played flag football together in eighth grade. And that's why that play has another special human interest element to it.

But the problem with that is with the transitions that we do, especially during the witching hour, when I got six, seven, eight games coming down to the wire and it's snap, snap, snap, I look at it as like boxing, stick and move. Don't stand in there the whole time. Stick and move. If you feel like that tackle just happened in the Packers game and then the next snap is happening in the Dolphins game over here. If you can get your comment in between that and that, fine. But you better be out of there by the time Tua Tungvaluwa lifts his leg to bring Tyreek in motion to take that snap. Shut up and let the announcer who is there do the job with

the crowd microphone available and everything. I'd like to think I do a great job about it. Like you said, catching my stride. There are still times when I talk over the top of plays that I regret afterwards. There are times when I have to talk over the top of plays because picture this, you watch and your audience watches. We go to the triple box, right? We do that either one of two reasons. We do it to establish, hey, there are three things that you need to be aware of right now. Let's just say three teams in the red zone. So let's go triple box. Well, then we'd like to go full screen and go snap, snap, snap from those three games. But if we go triple box late in the witching hour and teams are running hurry up, you don't have the 40 second play clock with which to bounce from game A to game B to game

C. So we stay in the triple, meaning I've got to talk over the top of it. And why do I have to talk over the top of it? Well, you tell me which audio we should be playing at that time. You want 33% audio on those three feeds? No, it'll sound like garbage. You want to pick one? You might miss the touchdown on the other one. So they let my rapid fire brain and hopefully rapid fire mouth

try and call all three of them. Sometimes the audience pushes back on that as like, shut up and quit talking over the games. But for the reasons I just explained, that's not feasible. It's not possible. It's not the best way, in my opinion, that you can get those three games live as they're happening and with some understanding. So it's, it's, it, bro, it is a feel. Uh, and, and I'm, I still don't claim that I'm perfect at it. I'm, I'm open for suggestions if anyone else has got ideas, but I've got 25, 30 years of broadcast TV experience going into making the choices and the philosophy of how we try and cover an NFL Sunday. Well, it's live. So it's impossible. And once

after, I don't know, a couple of years of ESPN doing live, we do those six hour shows on Saturday night. And one of the guys, I was upset. I'd screwed something up. And he's like, Hey, you know, there's no perfect broadcast, but there's just no, it doesn't exist. It's unobtainable. So, um, now that you know that get over it and that's And that's true. So you've kind of hinted at it already. What's a bad show for you? Ooh, I hate, oh man, you'll make me break out in a sweat right now. I hate player misidentification, especially when it's someone that's obvious. And I will mess up the obvious ones sometimes.

I mean, oh, I like, oh, I just I feel awful. I don't know if I've ever told the story on your show here, but we had it was a few years back. Ronald Jones from then of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers running back and he had grown his hair out. OK, so he was wearing the long hair out, out the back and changed his Jersey number. I think as well, he was 27 at the time. And for some reason, my lizard brain said, look, Garrett blunt with a, with an eight yard run on first and 10 bucks and manage. And I'm like, look, Garrett blunt. And as soon as I said it, I'm like, LeGarrette Blount hasn't played for the Buccaneers in a couple of few years. So I'm thinking, I'm like, oh man. Sometimes when I know I make a mistake, I'm like, I got to correct

it right away. Or you know what? I'll let it slide. Maybe hopefully people either show me some grace or they didn't catch that. But this one was like, I knew I misidentified him. So then of course I corrected it. And I said, excuse me, that's not LeGarrette Blunt, Leonard Fournette with an eight yard run. Because if you remember, yeah, if you think about the Jersey numbers, the body types, the hair, everything had like crisscrossed in my brain. I was completely twisted on a starting running back in the NFL. Those are the most embarrassing. And that'll ruin an entire show for me. If I do that once now, thankfully, that's one

that stands out. I don't do that all that often, but when we get new guys like what Amari Di Mercato coming up and starting to get carries when no one expected it, it's like, no, I got to know these guys. I got to be able to, to, you know, to be able to be on top of it. So player misidentification. Or if I'm watching ESPN or NFL Network highlight shows on Sunday night, and I do, for your audience that's watching and not listening, there's my media wall right there. I come home and I grind for hours watching Sunday night football on the middle screen. And then I've got all the highlight shows I can possibly find on the side screens. So I go on a mental checklist. Yep, we showed that, we had that,

we did that, but if there's a storyline that's really cool, something that I didn't know going into the show or I didn't realize as it unfolded and I missed it, and it's something that I didn't know going into the show or I didn't realize as it unfolded and I missed it. And it's something that people will be talking about for the next few days. I, I, I kill myself over that. I'm like, I'm like, Hanson, how did you miss that? Why didn't you know that? Why didn't you tell that story? Uh, because I want to be perfect. I want to be perfect. And like you said, like your, like your producer told you, there is no perfect show, but it doesn't mean we can't break out in hives when we don't do our job as well as we, as well as we want to. That's a tough one though. The Ronald Jones one, you had a lot of things working against you.

Can you picture that in your head? You could picture the way, like, and I was like, wait, 27. And sometimes it's, it's not even, it's like more like color flashes in front of my eyes instead of like specific player identifications. Like, okay, that Jersey. And I see that Jersey number and it's obviously a running back. And I just go, bang. And my, my brain just goes, that's who it is. You know, cause I'm watching three other games at the same time. I'm trying to call that one. So I had mentioned it earlier. Like I knew there were certain years that I knew the team better than anybody else. Right. Because that was immersed in it. I didn't have to worry about all of the other teams. Like I know, I knew the Celtics better when I was working for the Celtics broadcast, then I would know them now.

I just, that's just the reality of your responsibility, especially to whatever your audience is. And then that audience was strictly Celtics fans. So when I think about the prep that you have to do that you don't use, which, you know, probably doesn't feel super efficient because if I'm you, I'm going over all the depth charts all the time. You probably have to pay attention to the, the waiver stuff, the cuts, you know, like, Oh, Hey, you know what? And then I think you're really good on, on just, and I think this is really cool when you'll do it. Cause I love Saturday so much. And I know, you know, your days at Syracuse, you love college football too, but just a little reminder of like, Hey, remember that guy, He was at Kentucky or that guy was the guy that transferred from Oklahoma to wherever. And I love that little stuff,

but it also was a glimpse of like all the things that you have. So like, this is the lead up to the question, doing this job and being this immersed in it. Like, I imagine there are teams you go, you know, I've kind of watched them and you remember so much of it because you're broadcasting the timeline of their season. Like, Oh, remember week four, this happened, but then week eight, that happened. Where do you feel like you have a read on a league that feels impossible to have a read on? Like we know who the good teams are. We know who the great quarterbacks are. We know who the terrible teams are, but every single week I'm in the middle of it going, wait, that game's close. Like what's going on? Do you feel like if I were just to ask you like, Hey, which teams do you like a little bit more?

Which teams do you not like a little bit more? I mean, is that a level of confidence you've never had before prior to this job? Yeah, I would say maybe yes. Maybe yes. In terms of and this will be funny in terms of fantasy football, believe it or not. football, believe it or not. What I've noticed is through my preparation and hosting NFL Red Zone, I feel like every year when I go into my fantasy draft, and for what it's worth, my favorite NFL team is my fantasy football team, the Iron Bladders. And we just took our first loss. It was bad. I say we, my brothers, my co-manager. But I go into my draft every year thinking... Sorry. It's terrible. It was bad. I say we, my brother is my co-manager, but I go into my draft every year thinking. It's terrible. It's awful.

Sorry to hear this. I go in every year thinking, wait, did people, am I missing something? Because like a perfect example this year, Kenneth Walker, I was like, people are not drafting Kenneth Walker early. This guy's going to be a top. I could think he'd be a top 15, top 10 running back. And now he's

like fantasy wise, he's been top five. And I'm like, do people not see how hard he runs? Do people not see that he's a home run hitter as well? Do people not see that the offensive line's gotten a little bit better? And now Gino Smith is, has taken the pressure off of, you know, loading up a box with being able to threaten a defense with passing. So there's always like things like that, where I like, I guess I see stuff that maybe other people don't. Now, maybe your question was more about a theme for a team. Like Minnesota, are you still a Vikings fan? No, the Vikings are in, like, we could get an alert on our phones any minute that so-and-so has been moved on from the Vikings.

That's where they're at right now, especially with the Justin Jefferson injury. So, you know, teams, I know enough about the NFL to know this. Nobody knows nothing. Or expect it to zig when everybody thinks it's going to zag because it does. It just does. I mean, our buddy Scott Van Pelt makes part of his living on going general principal game. What does he call it? When he makes his picks.

Fading the public. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, this makes no sense, but that's why I'm doing it. Because this game is going to go the opposite way. That's why I'm doing it, because this game is going to go the opposite way. This team playing Alabama will cover 24.5 points just because it's stupid that they shouldn't, but they will. And the NFL is the same way.

So do you think, as we're heading into six games in for a lot of these teams, do you think there's a first tier? Would your answer be different, or would it be the same as the rest of us? Two undefeateds, right? And San Francisco probably looks stronger than Philadelphia. And then you've got the teams at four and one. I got bye weeks are coming in right now. Miami looks strong with the offense, even though they stubbed their toe in Buffalo, which was a huge game that's probably going to come back to haunt them late in the season. Miami looks good. Kansas City is still Kansas City. And Detroit.

But people thought that at the beginning of the year. I think maybe Miami would be maybe a little bit of a surprise that their offense is just this type of a buzzsaw. And I'm forgetting someone else. No, I think that's it. That's everyone I would say is the top tier. Am I missing someone in your mind? No, I think the Buffalo thing, you kind of don't know what to do with it now because the Jacksonville loss is like, wait, but then we're talking about like three major injuries on the defensive side of the ball.

Yeah. You know, this is going to start, I always try to remind everybody, like this will start to become the story. Like we'll talk about teams being like, man, they got off to that great start. I wonder what happened to them. talk about teams being like, man, they got off to that great start. I wonder what happened to them. Like, have you seen their injury report? Like, and it's very easy for us to lose the third highest snap defensive lineman, the nickel corner. You know, there's just a lot of players that aren't household names. And Milano, that's one at every level right there that they've lost.

Yeah. I mean, to lose White and Milano and then the peck tear for the other guy, like this is that felt like the first shot of one of the top teams where I'm like, okay, I don't know. Because Milano actually, look, I'm a Fred Warner guy. I would never put anybody even at his level. But Milano's played some really good football here the last couple of years.

So that's a big deal for them. And keep in mind, the Bills' defense going into this year, they lost their green dot. Their defensive captain calling the signals last year was Terrell Edmonds, who left in the offseason in free agency. And they were trying to figure out, I talked to Jordan Poyer, the safety preseason. I'm like, well, who is going to be the green dot? And even this was in training camp and they still had no answer at that point. So, and granted that Vaughn's back now and he hopes to get some semblance of Vaughn Miller type impact.

But yeah, Buffalo, Buffalo is going to have to be a team that's going to have to outscore people. And, you know, they want to get as many home games as possible in the playoffs. That's not, those are usually not high scoring games. So the Bills are, I think they're right on the next cut. And then Cincinnati is another AFC team where it's like, what, what, who, what? Like, was last week, are we finally seeing the Bengals? You can only put so much, in my opinion, on the Burrow calf injury. They are not right on offense.

And I realize they exploded and Chase had a massive game, but I need to see it for at least another week or two before I say, oh, okay, it's all figured out. And that's one of the weirder things that we've seen so far in the year too. So you mentioned Detroit though, like without even flinching, you're all in on Detroit. Yeah, dude. I mean, we're all in in this way. Oh, this is going to make fans. I'm from Michigan originally and grew up a Lions fan. The Lions are good enough. I don't even know if I should say this. The Lions are one of those teams that's going to grow this year,

going to make the playoffs, maybe probably win the division, and then maybe have an early playoff exit. They look like the build of that. And then next year, assuming that Jared Goff is back again and the young guys grow a little bit more, I think, yeah, I'm all in on them in terms of being what we thought they were. There were people that were predicting the Lions as the division champion in the preseason for all the reasons that we would kind of think of

in the NFseason for all the reasons that we would kind of think of in the NFC North. And then with Minnesota just being, just being on the exact, they're the bizarro Vikings from last year. They couldn't lose a one possession game last year. They can't win one this year. Jordan Love popped early, but now looks like, okay, there's might be some growing pains there. And then the Bears have all sorts of different issues as well. So I think, yeah, the Lions are going to – I think the Lions will win that division, provided no massive injuries. The Lions will win that division.

Aiden Hutchinson and that defense will keep growing. They'll get a home playoff game, but I don't think they're good enough for a deep two-three-game playoff run yet. Before we say goodbye to you, I want to introduce you to a new game we have on the show. It's called Red Zone Roulette. All right, Red Zone Roulette. So I'm in your ear.

You can't double quad octobox us on this one. You have, I'm going to give you scenarios and you have to pick where we're going. I like it. I like it. All right, are you ready? Okay, so I'm in your ear. I'm it. I like it. Are you ready? Okay. So I'm in your ear.

I'm like, okay, New England's 1-7 coming in, but they've got the ball down eight at the 20-yard line of Washington with 1.50 to go. So that's option one. I'm like, all right, wait. They're 1-7. They're finally going to get a win. They're at Washington.

Okay. Houston is in the red zone. Four minutes to go. Up 28-10 on Tampa. But Stroud has four touchdowns already. So he could be going. So we've got a close game. But then we have something with a rookie here.

He could potentially have his fifth touchdown. Where are we going, Hanson? Oh, just those two choices? That's it. That's it. Just for now. We're starting easy. Okay.

A, we would go double box, but you eliminated that. Okay. The double box machines on the Fritz and this particular- It's not working. I tease on it. I would probably go. I would go, even though both have reasons to not go there, both have reasons to go there. I believe it or not, I would go to the new England

game, one possession game, even though it's two scores, you snuckly made that score an eight point game where you need the touchdown and the two point conversion. Well, you know, that's a, that's a good one. That's a good coin flip and reasonable minds can differ. By the way, a lot of our choices are slam dunks. I'm going to switch it up. Because it's a two-score, one-possession game, I'm going to go to C.J. Stroud and say, hey, he could throw a touchdown on any given play here. And then I'll say, hey, by the way, the New England game, we know that it's in the red zone. We know it's a, but they need the touchdown and the two-point conversion. If they get the touchdown, we'll show it to you immediately. And then we'll hit you with the two-point conversion live so that you see if this is a game or not.

But then C.J. Stroud could hit his threshold at any given snap. So I think that would be your, we call it, pressure point. Your pressure point would be Houston in that way. Thank you. And by the way, I only get three seconds to make that decision on a live Sunday. And we, my producers and I, only get three seconds. So I deliberated too long there. Okay.

All right. Pittsburgh, week 12. Pittsburgh Pittsburgh's at Cincinnati it's a tie game 17 apiece two minutes to go Cincy has the ball it's third and 12 but they're at their own 47 yard line okay so okay third and 12 big third down two minutes ago is. New England has Matt Corral in the mix. He's back with the team. I think he was cut this week. It's 0-0 against the Giants. 4.22 to go. It's third and four at the Giants' 35-yard line.

And Bill Belichick is still coaching the Patriots in this hypothetical? Yeah. Yeah. I just, the Matt Corral story, it's 0-0, it's sort of crazy, it's 0-0, you know, the Giants. Giants usually save those performances for primetime games.

Yeah. I would say, fine, give me the Patriots, if nothing else, other than to make Russillo happy because we know, you know know he wants to keep it. Everybody thinks I care, but for whatever reason, I wrote them down a couple different times here. Wait, I haven't heard that recently. I mean, maybe I'm behind on my updates, but... No, that's been going on.

I wasn't a Brady guy towards the end. Wait, is Pittsburgh Cincinnati division game tied up? Well, you didn't give me Cincinnati's record have they bounced back yet have they bounced back and are they a contender yeah yeah we're saying they're a contender oh then we would go we would go to the division matchup especially if there were division implications I mean I guess they are with there always are division implications in a division game yeah we would go we would go Cincinnati and we would let you know. I always want to let people know you're not missing anything in the blank game. This game's at the two-minute warning

timeout or this game, there's an injury timeout because when people can't see something, then they want to hit their own remote control and I'm holding the remote control. I'm like, don't worry. I got my eyes on this. We'll get you there as soon as we need to, but the pressure point is here in Cincinnati, Steel't worry. I got my eyes on this. We'll get you there as soon as we need to. But the pressure point is here in Cincinnati. Steelers and Bengals coming down to the wire. Let's see if they can get into field goal range. Break that 19-19 tie. Is that what you had the score at?

17 apiece, but I had it at the two-minute warning. So that might be the answer then that you're going to go, let's go check out this 0-0 game, even though there's more time with a big third and four at the 35-yard line of the Giants. Because if they don't get it, then we're talking a 52-yard field goal attempt, Giants stadium, maybe later in the season. You never really know. I need another data point. I need another data point from your hypothetical. You said two-minute warning. You may or may not know this. We stopwatch, we stopwatch commercial breaks, especially late

because two minute warning, fine. You got three minutes. Is it, did they just go to the two minute warning at 10 seconds ago? Or are they about ready to show billboards, which are the, you know, the ads at the bottom of the screen that they show when they show a beauty shot of, of Accresure stadium in Pittsburgh or whatever it is like we time it so that we know, Hey, we got a snap coming in two minutes and 40 seconds from now or 15 seconds from right now. So I need to know it's at the two minute warning. 15 seconds, 15 seconds, right? Guy, he's saying house of bugging. He's coming back. The graphics are up. Graphics are up. I think I'd still go. I think I'd still go because believe it or not, with all respect to the Corral family who is watching this right here, I'm guessing that a Matt Corral debut would not necessarily

move the needle as much as tell me who's going to frigging win the AFC North or who's going to have, you know, who's in wildcard position in the AFC North late in the season. Okay. Week 15, last one. This one's a little more complicated. I love this, dude. I wish you'd give me more. Give me three or four options, dude. I can't believe how long the answers are on the podcast

in comparison to how short when you actually have to make the decision. No, I'm sorry. Is it bothering you? Because we do make split decisions, and I can do that. It's definitely not bothering me. I'm just fascinated as I listen to you share every twist and turn of the maze of the right decision. I'm a nut job, dude. I'm a street nut job.

I feel bad if you felt like I was bothered. I love this so far. Okay, last one for a little red zone roulette here. Tampa Bay at Green Bay, week 15. It's 35-35, an absolute shootout. Tampa's got the ball, but it's fourth and seven from the Green Bay 40 with bad weather. 40 seconds left. So you think maybe they kick the field goal, but we're going to see Baker and the guys maybe coming back on.

You may have to go for it on fourth and seven. So Baker's coming back out on the field. They're not going for the field goal. That's option one. I got you. So it's not the field goal that's an automatic. You would go to a game-winning field goal attempt. The other option is Miami's up 70-10 on the Jets.

They've decided to leave Tua in. 70-10? 70-10 on the Jets. They've decided to leave Tua in. 70-10? 70-10, right? Sure. There's enough time. There's under a minute left, but they have to run another play. It's first and goal. Excuse me.

It's fourth and goal at the one. All right? And they're not going to kick the field goal because they think that's more respectful. 72 points is, as we know, the record for most points in an NFL game. So there's two, a fourth and goal at the one, and they can't take a knee and they don't want to kick the field goal. Okay. So that's a, here's the third option.

Kansas City's up 30 on New England. I have no idea how I actually ended up. I don't know. Picking three New England games here. Yeah. Kansas City's clinched the division. Belichick's been fired. It's a mess.

It's a mess there. There's nothing interesting about this game, but Taylor Swift has just ordered chicken fingers. Where are you going? Again, I need another data point. Does Taylor have seemingly ranch on her plate with the chicken fingers? Did you hear about that one? I did.

I mean, I couldn't avoid it. I couldn't avoid it. No, but the seemingly ranch, like my girlfriend filled me in on this because she's now all of a sudden got into industry. She couldn't do anything about football. Someone took a photo of her at the first game. And now apparently the Heinz Corporation is making a special limited edition bottle that they're going to sell called seemingly ranch because some blog i don't know it was tmz or whatever put you know taylor swift enjoying chicken nuggets at the at the at arrowhead at the kansas city chiefs game with what appeared to be

ketchup and seemingly ranch on on her plate so yeah anyway i thought i knew it now i definitely know it um i think you're kind of giving us the answer no no no no no no i'm going i think i'm going dolphins and here's why because mike mcdaniel and this goes into knowing the whole story of the the season they got the 70 famously already this year and And McDaniel was asked about it afterwards. And he said, you know what? The guys on the sideline, we actually talked about it, that we could break the record. And they decided we're good. We don't need to try for that. I think if that choice is put before them again, they're going to say, sorry, boys, but you should have stopped us in the first, second and third quarter. We're breaking the record so we could be known as one of the

greatest offenses of all time. So I think my guess is that they would go for it. You said that they had to, well, they don't have to run a snap, but they do have to run a snap, but they could take a knee. My guess is they'd be going for it for the record. So I'd probably go to Miami. But at the same time, I would be thinking back to the first scenario and saying, okay, Tampa Bay, this is no man's land here in terms of game, potential game winning or go ahead field goal versus going for it to be able to get into more manageable field goal range in the inclement weather that you presented me. Do they keep the offense on the field? I would pause for

like 10 seconds to say, which team are they sending out there? Is it the field goal unit? Are they keeping the offense out there? But I think I'd still go to Miami because, and here's why, if they kick the field goal, we can reverse that video 10 seconds and show it to you 10 seconds after the fact. You'd never know that it wasn't live or unless you had side by side with a live game, we could show you that field goal attempt to go ahead. And if they went for it, well, one of two things happens. Either it's a turnover on downs, in which case Green Bay still needs to go probably another 20 yards to get into field goal range themselves, or they make it, well, now they're first and 10. Now we can pick up that drive live.

So all the values that you throw at me there are all calculated, and the values change snap by snap, second by second. The reason I made that one more difficult, and I could have maybe said Miami has 68 points, so if they kick the field goal, they're at 71. That's not even the record, so then it has to be the touchdown because they could just kick the field goal, they're at 71. That's not even the record. So then it has to be the touchdown because they could just kick the field goal. But sometimes teams would be up.

I also this whole idea that everybody, if you asked all 53 guys in uniform, hey, do you want to go for the record for most points scored in an NFL game? I have a hard time believing that guys actually didn't care about doing it. I think guys would want to do it. So maybe if I make it 68 points. But what I like is that you're trying to figure out, you want to show the audience the Baker decision for its own game outcome, but you'd also want to see Tua and McDaniel and the staff going, okay, we got to come back out here. Do we send out the field goal unit and we break it that way? Or do we just try to go for it? So maybe that's where I make it 68,

but there would probably be more interest or not. Look, there's more interest in the play and the outcome of the play on a fourth down in that situation where they have to do, they can't just take the knee, but I would want to see how they were talking about it. You know, I think that part would actually be kind of interesting. Well, and then just, you asked, you said you were interested in my out loud stream of consciousness thought process. What I was factoring is, what do I have? If the Miami game goes one way or the other, what happens next in that game? If the Tampa game goes one way or another, well, it could be one way, another, another. They could go field goal, good or miss. They could go for it, get it or get stopped. What happens next in that game?

And so it's almost like the old video game Frogger, where you're jumping across to the lily pad, but just because you made a successful jump, you better be looking, where's my next log? Where's my next lily pad? Where are the alligators coming next? You better make one move with two or three more moves in mind and that's literally what we do through the witching hour every single it's crazy it's insane in the control room and in the studio but we're like okay make this decision but don't sit back and go oh wow we got to that game at the right time no you you get to that game you let that play play out but you be looking where's next spot? Because we got to get somewhere quick.

Otherwise, we're going straight into the tubes. I love it. I love the passion. That's Scott Hanson. You see him every Sunday for seven hours of uninterrupted NFL action. Thanks for continuing to do the job. And it's nice to be back with you. I missed you there for a couple of years.

So thanks for catching up. We missed you too. And I know you shout it out every once in a while when I'm going crazy saying, guys, guys, guys, can we get to Foxborough? Can we get to Foxborough? Guys, guys, guys, look at what's happening at Lambeau right now. Every now and then. Yeah, right.

I think it was a stretch of like the four o'clock games. This was back when I was in Connecticut. I was more miserable then than I am now. And there would just be like this infatuation with it before the Jags were good. There'd be like a Jags and be like, all right, we're going to show you the red zone, like second and two, the Jags. Like we don't actually have to go to that game guys. We don't have to go to that game. And so that would come in Monday. I'd come in a little hot for the ESPN show. So I appreciate you putting up with my complaints over the years because I have no

complaints now. Uh, I love, I love the show. I never show. Look, you've never been better. And thanks for the time today. Brian, great to be with you, bud. New book coming out. I was able to run through it this weekend. I loved it. I'm a huge fan of the police. One of the all-times for me.

Stuart Copeland's Police Diaries. It's available October 26th. Also available on rocket88books.com. And we'll give a plug at the end there. Stuart Copeland, the drummer, joins us. What's up, man? Thanks for doing this. Oh, well, thanks for listening.

I'm here in California. Where are you? Down the coast a bit, Manhattan Beach. So I'm in California as well. All right. Okay. Yeah, I cycle past there on my Sundayay bikes uh adventure yeah that's a good uh it's a good little bike path there i got into it during the pandemic a bit and then i was like am

i going to become a full-blown bike guy and uh i think my legs had a different idea well yeah we don't go the full-on spandex thing we just on a sunday and most of the exercise because we go very slow most of the exercise into kind of midriff reaching from laughter and hilarity you know uh get rich quick schemes crackpot theories uh conspiracy bullshit um and uh it turns out that chuckle buddies are good for your health and i certainly feel it with my with my gang yeah well look you've you've had a a life here that um it was kind of funny as i was going through the book i was like it's too bad the drumming worked out because you would have been a great accountant or uh don't look too closely at those accounts but you know what i i love about your story which you know i had known you know

just researching bands and stuff you're obsessed with as a younger kid, but your upbringing, I just wanted to share that a bit with the audience, because I think it speaks to your musical influence, how unique the movement and your father's job and all these things that kind of expose you to things at a very impressionable age that kind of became the foundation for your musical tastes. Oh yeah. Uh, if you have different input, you're going to have different output. And while everyone else was listening to the same stuff as each other on the radio, AM, FM, whatever, I was surrounded by an alien culture, which actually doesn't feel alien to me,

feels very familiar. My family, my Arabic family, I was in Lebanon, Beirut, Lebanon, my Arabic family, I was in Lebanon, Beirut, Lebanon, surrounded by Arabic music. And the main ingredient, my secret sauce, derives from Arabic music, because their rhythm is an upside-down version of rhythm that actually shares some features with reggae, which there's the emphasis on the third beat of the bar. There's the absence of one step, two, three,

four, two, three, four, and which is shares with reggae, these fundamental building blocks. And so when reggae came around, I immediately latched onto it.

And in London and the punk clubs, when the DJs started playing dub reggae because it was chill but hostile, all the skinny white English musicians are trying to figure out, what on earth, what are they doing? And I think it was a clash. Old Topper Heaton beat me to it, actually, to do a song attempting to play reggae but it was hard for him and because of my arabic dna easy for me yeah that's what i i love about the origin of the police is you're you're playing with curved air which was kind of like a reincarnation of of this band so you're gigging you're making money but the punk thing starts to happen. And I was, I was reading years ago, please kill me, which was basically the history of punk and the whole thing. And it was a, it was

an intense book. I mean, there were certain chapters where I felt like I just needed to wash my hands. And it was always interesting when I would listen to like the story of like, oh, this guy hung out and they would go there to see them. And then the guys would be like, did you want to just go to the pawn shop and buy a guitar? And then they'd have a gig next Friday. So when I think about your background, Sting's background, Andy's background, it seemed like you wanted to get into punk because that's what was happening. But as I know your origins, and then in comparing that to some of your musicians, it's like, you guys are probably just too good to be a punk band. Well, we were spotted right away for exactly that reason.

And it was known that I'd played in Curved Air, which is an OG prog rock band. And, you know, when Andy joined, as my brother Miles noticed, look, he cut his hair. That's a big step. You know, to cut your hair was really you were saying goodbye to all my old friends and hoping to get along with your new friends who are all sniffing glue and pogoing. So it's a big move, but he had not yet traded in his bell bottoms. So there he was with the correct hairdo, but wrong jeans. And by the way, the rules of punk were very, very strict. And we were spotted right away as carpetbaggers, which we were. I mean, when I called Sting up in New Cal and said, hey, I got all this stuff going on.

You got to move down to London. Give me a call. It was based on this punk scene because the old wave, prog rock, was dying on the vine. It was over. There was no excitement there. And this new scene had life. It was like new. It was out of control of the enemy and the melody maker and the record company that was like happening on the street. And so when, you know, I called Sting and gave him this, this pitch, we were complete

strangers. And he said, okay, if I get down to London, I'll call you. And one day, out of the blue, phone rings, and it's Stingo. And he's downstairs on the street in a phone booth. I'm downstairs. Come on up. And he comes up, and I give him a bass. And the drums are right there. And we immediately plug in and start blasting. And it was just obvious right away that we had the pocket, that we were meant for each other. I didn't know who

this guy was. I didn't know anything about him. I didn't know that he'd come down to London with wife, baby and dog. And, you know, I was just one of the contacts that he had. But as soon as we started playing, we knew that we had a found that holy grail, which the pocket what was it about sting the first time you saw him that you were like i have to get this guy well few things one is that he had his own amp um and he could he could play bass and sing uh in that order uh but then the other factor i think what tipped the scale was this golden ray of light, celestial light coming down from heaven, alighting upon his magnificent brow. The guy had charisma out to here. You know, I, you know, often said of old Stingo that, you know, you know, fame and fortune did not swell his head.

He was the Lion King from birth. I mean, even playing at this, you know, it was actually a college refectory with his jazz band. They're actually a pretty good band, but it was all jazz and on its way out. And maybe he even sensed that. But that charisma factor. But I was looking for two guys. I needed a guitarist and a bass player uh for a three-piece band one of one or other of them has to be able to sing that guy can sing and

um so long story how i got his number it's all in the book uh and his first words to me were keep talking you know i call i called him up and i said look this is I'm calling from London I'm I've got this I'm forming this band it's all going on I gave him all this fast talk with convincing certitude and but here's the thing it's just you I'm not interested in your band it's just you to which he replied keep talking and right there I, okay, he's a free agent. Right. Okay. But that also pretty much describes our relationship for the next two years. I had to keep talking. Yeah, we got a photo session tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. The enemy's coming to the show and we, you know, it's all going on. We, you know, we got some more gigs booked and I'm on the phone booking gigs,

selling, you know, when we recorded our first single, it was me on the phone selling boxes of 25 discs to the record stores around the country. And I had to just keep it moving, keep it moving because we didn't have the music. We stuck together. Sting and I stuck together before we ran into Andy for about a year and a half, starving, you know, going nowhere. We had Henry Padovani on guitar, who played with great gusto and charisma, but he only knew four chords. That I taught him. And we were playing songs that I wrote. We didn't have Roxanne. We didn't have Message in a Bottle. We didn't have Every Breath You Take or anything. We had these crap songs, which were mostly just bass lines with yelling that I had thrown together so that we could be a punk group. And somehow we stuck together because we just knew that we're in the right company.

Even though we didn't have those songs, even though we weren't getting anywhere, no matter how fast I talked, we were not getting anywhere. Until one day, we're doing a session. Because we were known, we were actually paying our rent by doing sessions. We were the hot rhythm section. And one day we're at a session and in walks this guitarist who's way above our pay grade, triple scale legendary guitarist named Andy Summers. And we have a day doing like almost just really actually pretty interesting music for this guy called Mike Howlett. And driving home, St sting is seething he's just a man i after a day of actual music he reminded him of what he picked up his instrument for and who he what he what his life is for and

it's not getting spat at at punk clubs you know know, after a day of music, he, he was, he was a little delirious. In fact, he even said something to me, which he actually mentioned this in his book. And I remember it like it was yesterday. Uh, he's, he, we're going, he's going on about Henry, our guitarist. He's, he's, he's crap. I mean, he's not Stuart, you're a better guitarist than he is. And he carries on with his tirade. And I'm going, better guitarist than he is. And he carries on with his tirade. And I'm going, really? Gosh, really? You know, this unexpected accolade. Anyhow, little did we know that we were thinking that way about Andy. And we did a show with Mike Hallett in Paris. And then we did a, we were playing a gig at the Marquis and Andy shows up, jumps on stage, burns down

the house. And once again, we're damn. And so Sting and I are, you know, can I, how can, how can we get this guy? And I'm basically humoring him, pretending to go along because we're not going to get that guy. You're kidding. You know, there's no way he'll join. Even if he does join, he'll join for a week and then quit because, you know, we can't

afford him. Even if he does join, he'll join for a week and then quit because we can't afford him. But little did we know that Andy was also thinking along the same lines. And after that gig at the Marquee in London, I ran into him at the tube station, Oxford Street tube station. He pulls me into a cab and says, Stuart, Stuart, we need to talk. Come on. And, you know, you and that bass player, I think you've got something, but you need me in the band and I accept. He hates it when I tell that story, it's a little abbreviated there, but that is our Andy. Andy is very direct, very no beating around the bush. That's what made us all rich and famous was that directness of Andy Summers and okay. And so I told him, you know, we haven't got management. It's me. I'm the

management. We haven't got the record company. You see that record, you know, that we made, uh, that's me with electro set and me on the phone. That that's me. I'm the record company. There's no record company. Oh, the roadies. Yeah. we have roadies. You. And I was basically kicking the wheels because I didn't know him well enough to know whether he would stick with it. But he insisted, and he did stick with it. Sting could write those songs because they had more harmonic complexity and they could, you know, he, he, you know, the music was back in our lives and Andy saved us. Andy discovered us really. Um, and as soon as those two got their heads together and, and Andy could play the songs that Sting's was writing, that's when Roxanne happened and can't stand losing you. And so lonely and, and the ball started rolling. The creative ball started rolling. What I love about the diary too,

though, is it just hammers home the point, like anything that's great. The pursuit is like, you have to be maniacal about it. You know, you have all those down moments, moments like,

Oh, we did this, we did that. And it just keeps hammering home. Like it's just people from the outside, like, Oh, you're so lucky.

And you're like, yeah, I didn't feel real lucky there for a long time. But I, the music itself to, to pivot to this group where I knew that reggae again, had enough of a presence in London, that it wasn't this complete alien idea of like, wait, what are you guys going to try to do? But I think between, you know, reading the history of your brother being involved in it from a management side, or at least helping you out. And then some of the different

contract stuff that you get into there didn't feel like there was a lot of resistance. It was almost like, okay, you guys can try to do what you want, even though you're not going to be a punk band. Like, I don't know if I'm misrepresenting that or not. I'm just wondering how there's no one to resist us. Well, there was the, there were the, there were the, the, the, the standard music papers who spotted us as charlatans and carpet bags right away. That was a form of resistance. You spotted us as charlatans in carpet bags right away. That was a form of resistance. But we were still out there playing and getting shows and doing shows and working our thing,

not really getting anywhere until Andy joined. And then we had a sound of our own, and it started to take off. But the reggae thing happened because of the lack of, you know, even kids high on glue in those punk clubs, they needed chill sometimes, but there's no such thing as chill punk. It's an oxymoron. And so actually it was Don Letts, a famous London DJ back in the day, who started playing dub, which is very hostile, but chill, which is very hostile but chill chill hostile and it's dark and menacing and extremely pissed off uh which actually suited the punk mood so all the punk rockers are absorbing this upside down backwards rhythm um and like i say it was the clash who were the first skinny white boys to attempt it themselves so i did um something that it wasn't even homework I mean I've listened to all the music for you know four decades now and so I had a lot of work to do

and I was at the house and I was like I'm gonna go through every album start to finish just chronological order in order because you know I think sometimes with the way music works now we lose the you know there's nothing like being younger and knowing the next note knowing the next beat of the next song because you're so used to the actual order and you know i think music has lost that a little bit unless you're a jam band fan like oyster head nobody knows what's going to happen next not even the band i have that's in my notes because i was in new york and i saw you guys because we were we were losing our minds that were like wait a minute stewart's playing with less entry so i do have that at some point because i want want to, I want to get to the comp that I was thinking about, but I did see you guys. I think it was, was it Rosalyn? I forget. But, um, when I listened to

the first two albums, I don't know if it's a production thing. It could be resources. It could be all these things, but I felt like as soon as we're into Zenyatta, there was a denser feel. And I know it was a different studio i'm wondering if that was a creative thing i wonder if it was more resources or if i'm just hearing a production value as opposed to the beginning of the police's story to where okay these guys are for real and we're putting more into their third album uh certainly was not a decision it was a natural evolution um and I never noticed the change. There was an even more dramatic change from the third album to the fourth and fifth albums.

We did five albums total. And when we got to the last two albums, we had a new engineer called Hugh Padgham, who had a different recording technique. And we liked it, but others have commented on how the the sound just got bigger and richer and as you say denser um others argue that the original sound had more raw appeal uh was hungrier and the lighter albums were richer um and that's just a matter of taste but it was not a conscious decision. We never made conscious decisions. Oh, we must do this or do that. We just, you know, sting and pull out another song and we'd tear it up, chew it up and figure something out. And then when we thought it was

cool, we'd record it. In fact, by the way, from after the first album, all of the tracks that we recorded, the next four albums, the drums went down pretty much 20 minutes after I heard the song for the first time. And Sting and Andy got their heads together, figuring out the chords. I'm kind of listening, tapping my knees. Let's do a take. And I'd play a drum take. Maybe we'd do maybe three or four with them pretending to play, just humoring me to give me something to play to so that we could lay the drums down.

In those days, you had to do the drums first, and then everything goes on top of them. And once the drums are down, they're locked. That's it. Whatever I came up with 20 minutes after hearing the song for the first time, that's on the record for the rest of eternity. While they get to go back and redo all the bass, the guitar, the vocals, everything. They spend the next month having a wild time honing and molding this product, this music.

But the drums, I'm listening to the drums I did that day. Hope I like them because I'm stuck with them for life. Okay, so you touched on something that I... By the way, just to finish that point, we would go on tour and I'd figure, ah, this is how I should get from the chorus back down into the verse. Ah, this is what I should have done on the record. But you know what? The record kind of worked.

Because although what I later discovered to be a better arrangement, that exploratory feel, that feeling of just coming, that inspiration is provided an X factor, which I think, uh, kind of worked out. Yeah. Well, I think, uh, I think the debate is settled on it working out or not, but I, you just hit on something though, that I really liked because whenever I think of like my favorite bands and the evolution of them and the direction, you know we can be really protective of it we can think like oh wait i don't want them deviating so much like what are you guys doing well that's always the balance every band has to figure out either they stay in the rut and give them what

they want or they lose them by going too far out and it was it was interesting like in the first two you're going okay it's a little raw and then Zenyatta it feels like again that's maybe my just my personal opinion of like okay there's there's some songs on that that I absolutely love but I I don't feel like they would have fit somewhere else and I know Ghost in the Machine which is actually my favorite but that may have been an age thing where it was like the first tape I ever bought where it was like I was old enough to go buy a tape and I was like I want that one and I bought it and so that's my own thing and I I know reading back you know, some members of the band, maybe not you as much, but I think sting in particular was like, you know, whatever, like we're getting too far away from what we want to do. So then when you get to

synchronicity, which I think most people look at you as your masterpiece, you may not feel that way, but I think the public does. Do you go into that going, okay, we are the biggest band in the world. We need to write something as powerful as every breath you take as tea in this hair these these bigger these bigger leaps vocally uh the song writing on it because it felt like that's what it was but you've kind of said in a in a bit that that's just kind of where we went that it wasn't a conscious decision it was it was our mindset yeah we are the coolest we are the hottest we are the biggest we we are the hottest, we are the biggest, we kill, we kick our ass, you know. We slew us. And that's the same kind of arrogance that exists within any band.

You have to have that self-love as a band to get anywhere, to stick together. Otherwise, the band will just fly off. So all bands share that band arrogance. We are the coolest. um so all bands share that that band arrogance we are the coolest um but it was from outside the group it particularly for zenyatta the third album where the record company put pressure on us look guys you've done well you've had a couple hits here but you want to go to the very tippy top it's within your grasp just give us those hits guys that's really important you do that a little you know and they were in the record the recording studio with us in Holland,

and they're in the studio with us with a hit. Is that the hit? No, I think that. Is that the hit? And so the next two albums after that, we recorded down in the Caribbean, 12 hours flight from the nearest record company, which actually was even worse, because without nearest record company and um which actually was even worse because without the record company we had only each other ripping each other's throats out and creating our own

we're we're in paradise where we successfully created a living hell for ourselves okay i've watched all the videos i've done all the youtube stuff maybe i haven't watched every single video but i was watching the rehearsals for the 2007 reunion and they leave in the YouTube stuff, like you and Sting going at each other. But it seems like I can't tell if the recording of Ghost in the Machine is more hostile than synchronicity, but why was it so bad? Like, how do you look back on it now of why this was so bad? Well, we understand that that tension was what made it happen um and at first we were codependent and sting and pull out a song and we said oh that's really cool how about we do this

and he thought oh gosh they like my song sure a little faster no problem no problem and you know but then after we started getting hits and he was getting more confirmed as a writer of hits and you know when we first went on our first two albums, Andy and I had recorded albums before we knew our way around the recording studio. Sting had not. It was his first recording. And so it didn't take long for Sting to learn all that stuff. It's not rocket science. And so by the third album and going on to the other ones, he now knew not only how to write a hit song, but how to record it, how to arrange it. He wouldn't show up with a couple of chords in a lyric. He'd show up with a fully mastered home demo because we all had recordings

stuff at home. And so we would show up with platinum demos. And it got harder and harder and harder for him to compromise. And what started out as collaboration began to feel to him more like compromise. I already know how this song should go. It should go like this, and the drums should do that. And I've conceived this guitar riff because the drums should. That's no fun for me. That's great, whatever your concept was but here's what i'm gonna do um and it wasn't said spoken like that until it got really rough

but it was basically yeah that's great i'm glad you got an idea for what the drums but i'm playing them uh and this is you know this is what i feel and you know it band, too. And so that's what the conflict was. It wasn't ego. It was strictly, how are we going to make this music? And we realized in hindsight that at that point, music had a different function in each of our lives. At first, we were codependent, and we just needed each other. And we found this pocket, and it was magic, and we didn't think about what else there could be in life, but this is really cool. But then we started to realize, or didn't realize, but we started to diverge.

And I make music for different reasons to Sting. And for him, it's a beautiful, serene place that he can escape to where the bedlam of the world goes away and he can create something beautiful. For me, it's a celebration. I want to burn down the house. I want to explode. That's what music is for, for me. And if those two different ideas of the purpose of the music, there's going to be a clash. of the purpose of the music, there's going to be a clash. And we realized that that clash was beneficial to the end result, the music we made, with that tension between sophisticated lyrics, sophisticated harmony and everything, and

brutal banging shit from the drummer in the back of the stage, kind of made it what it was. We understand that now. But it was not easy at the time. We would get along over dinner. You know, we would kind of loosen up and laugh and so on. But as soon as we got back into the recording room, it's just, what's the matter with you? Why do you think that's a good idea?

Are you insane? And by the way, the ideas weren't bad. I mean, Sting, his ideas for how you use a drum set, he does kind of know and have pretty creative ideas about how the drum set should be used. But fascinating. That's what I do. This is my playground. You play over there and I get to play with my toys. and the times when my urgent the urgent necessity that i throttled the life out of him were the times when he was right when he'd come over and i've got this cool thing going he'd come with

hey stewart you know could you could you play that hi-hat here and then again and i think well actually that's pretty clever you shall die that's what i really had to kill him when you were broken up did you know you were broken up did you know you were broken up did you did you know it was over because it seemed like no one knew i was surprised when we went into the third album i wasn't so much surprised but grateful uh that we made it through the album the third album i was surprised that we even got into the studio. We knew we had to because we were on top of the world. It was going up, up, up, up. It would be insane.

We have to go, you know. But I think we got maybe two more albums out of Stingo than we deserved. Because by that time, he knew what he was doing writing hits. And as he showed, you know, how many, 14, 15 Grammys later, that he does know what he's doing, kind of. And I'm glad that we got as many as five albums out of him. I'm glad you brought up the oyster head thing. Um, because it was still a little early internet days. I'm post-college, you know, still in love with all of this stuff. We're like, wait, those guys are going to get, did you ever call sting and be like,

you should hear this less Claypool guys, like a way to get back at him years later no no uh it's once again a different purpose of music you know at a police show the audience has their expectations they know the song they know the verse is leading it we're getting the other person then the big hit the whatever, you know, and there's an expectation and then a delivery. And that's how, you know, tension and then resolution. That's what art is all about. And that's how we achieve the uplift of police pop music. Oysterhead is a jam band. And we don't know where that chorus is going to to be we don't know when it's going to go up or when it's going to go, nobody has any idea what's going to happen, and in fact

inevitably there are some times when we're just making stuff up and you know the Oysterhead MO is we'll rehearse a two hour set for about 20 minutes and the rest of it we'll see what happens, but inevitably

there are times when it's dead, we're dead in the water. We've worked this riff. We're sick of this. Okay. What, who's going to, and the audience for me as a pop musician, I'm, I'm dying. I'm dying. This is, this can't be happening. I can't believe I'm in front of 20,000 people and we're dead in the water. And then Les comes up with something. And then Trey's on it. And then we're on fire again. And a surge of excitement from the audience. Now we're raging.

That's the same surge as the police gets through a known expectation of that course is coming up now. But it's arrived at by different means, but it's the same exaltation. It's the same surge of energy and joy. And it's just arrived at by different means. So no, I don't think Sting would be an Oysterhead fan. He's a songsmith. He writes songs with a beginning, middle and end, and that's his craft and his art and what he does. And Oysterhead, where we just make this shit up moment by moment, is the opposite of his idea of music. Did it feel, though, at Oysterhead, at least musically, a bit like Michael Jordan coming down the floor and then being on the dream team and having two Hall of Famers to his side? Because I just think from an ability, it's not knocking anyone else but that was like we couldn't believe it was happening

and yet we got to see it i didn't know either of them i knew less because i'd produced a track for his for his band primus you know our artists have faulty rear view mirrors we can see the bands who came before us and they're the competition we want to eat their lunch see the bands who came before us and they're the competition. We want to eat their lunch. But the bands who come after us, my rearview mirror is not so good. But I got a call from this guy called Les Claypool. I looked him up and oh yeah, they're a cool band. And so I produced this record. And then a little while later, he says, hey, look, there's this thing happening. We can form a band. I got this guitarist up in Vermont called Trey Anastasio. Big deal. I'm like, cool. All right. Sure. Fine. Because I knew already that I like Les. And we get along great. So I go to Vermont and I meet this funny redhead with a beard and a cheerful,

And I meet this funny redhead with a beard and a cheerful, you know, just this cheerful redhead. And we go up to his barn and start playing. And once again, this is it. Wow. This is amazing. We light each other up. And it was not just your average, you know, jam in A. It just went out to here.

It went down to there when, was, we climbed the highest mountains. We dug the deepest tunnels. We just found a day of making incredible music. And then we played this show in New Orleans. And that's how Oysterhead came together. But I didn't really have much of a sense of it until I got a call from Les saying, dude, we just sold out. I go, really? Wow, that's nice.

Gosh, my fans are – wait a minute. Those are not my fans. My fans have got jobs. They're not sitting over a computer waiting to buy tickets. Must be that funny little redhead. And sure enough, it was – Trey has such a following that those tickets disappeared in a heartbeat. And then a few weeks later, Les calls back and says, oh, tickets are being sold for $2,000. And I'm going, aha, that's my people.

I have two things here as I want to finish up. I was at a, ironically enough, not that long ago, I was at the Primus kind of tool hybrid benefit that they had done in Los Angeles. And I was lucky enough through a friend to have some pretty good access to it. And this is not the first time this has happened. Because Danny's a buddy of mine too. I'd love to have seen that.

I've never actually seen tool. Danny's, Kerry's been over here a lot of times i know him well we've jammed often uh but i've never seen tool that's the band i want to see well i've seen him no but i'm look i don't i don't think i need to tell you what it but it is seeing them seeing a rock band be that clean and to have it kind of march over you you know like people can be loud but what do you you can lose the tone at a certain level right and whatever they're doing beyond their own ability and their vision of what they want to do for a show it is it's up there with anything i've ever seen and i like everything i've gone to see all sorts of different weird shit,

but their power in an arena. Who are you talking about? Primus tool or a combination of the two? No, I'm talking about tool. So for you who have not seen tool that actually just to, to see Danny and obviously your friends in the home, you're missing.

So you got to go see them. But at this event, you came up because you know, it was a, it was Danny and it was another drummer. And then it was Justin and Les were dueling bases. And so there was just a heavy, heavy rhythm feel to it as they were just screwing around the whole night.

It was great. And they're both playing each other's songs. And you came up in a conversation with different guys. And it was amazing to see the reverence for you, the immediate just awe that the group had in talking about you. And I just have to imagine after a life in this, that has to feel really good. It has to feel good that you know, that some of the best people that are doing this look at you years after these hits going, you know, who's nasty.

You know, who I wish I could play like, you know, who has a sound, a sound that's so specific to him. It's Stuart Copeland. What does it feel like? Uh, I'm very glad of that. I'm very honored by that. But there isn't any feeling associated with it other than a momentary pride, I guess, a little jolt,

but it soon fades. I soon have to go to the bathroom or do some human function or, you know, pick my nose or what, you know. There's no actual sensation of fame or glory. It doesn't actually exist. It only exists in other people's minds. Ringo Starr, I feel all reverential and I'm bowing and scraping because I feel the power of he's a Beatle, for God's sake. I'm standing in the presence of a Beatle. He doesn't feel that. He's just going through his day. And we actually get along pretty well. The first time I met him

at a dinner party, what do you say to a Beatle? Well, I said, what I said was, so how about them Ludwig bass drum pedals? You still working them? And immediately we're talking about bass drum. Well, actually, you know, the Yamahas are, you know, I've been playing Yamaha recently. And, but I think Ludwig, I don't know, they got it back. And so Ringo's now playing a Ludwig kit with that same finish and the proper Ludwig logo. So it's, there's no sensation associated with fame or glory momentarily. Oh, cool. I'm glad of that.

But you're still who you are. I want to thank you for all the years of music, especially for me when I first, you know, started discovering how music makes you feel and moments with my father who was a humble bricklayer in the beginning. And I'd carry over one brick at a time and I'd flip the tape and then we'd be in the red truck after a day, maybe some meatball subs, and I'd be like six years old singing to do-do-do with him. You know what I mean? In one of those moments where it was a really easy lyric to sing as a little kid, but I knew that I felt something. And the fact that I still can feel that 40 years later is pretty rare when it comes to anything.

So I want to thank you for that and everything you've done for music. Uh, shucks. Well, thanks for listening again. The book is out October 26th, Stewart Copeland's police diaries again, rocket88books.com or policediariesbook.com. Can't wait to see you out there again. Thanks again, Stuart. All right. Take care, there. The Alliance returns.

All right. Tough stretch for the boys here. We got some Rudy wearing his Ole Miss t-shirt. That looks like a long sleeve, long sleeve crew neck. Sweatshirt. Sweatshirt. Yeah. Crew neck sweatshirt.

Love this. Got this on the streets on, you know, after the show. Kyle and I went to the swag store and spent a good amount of time there looking for some stuff. Got something for the wife. Got something for me. So yeah. Love it.

Yeah. Ole Miss gear. It looks good. Looks good on you. Looks really good on you. Kyle, did you buy anything? I did. i tried to talk him out of that i thought it looked a little plain they had more options but he said this is me he said this is me and i said i don't want to stop you dude i'm from new england like what crew neck sweatshirt is like

you know bread and butter here come on sure i just thought there were better crew necks but listen i i saw you light up when you found that one so i i immediately regretted trying to talk you out of it because you ended up with it anyway thanks man so appreciate it i got one too mine is like a was a play on like a miller light shirt or a high life shirt but it's at old miss oh so it indicates to any observer that you like football and like to party and yep there you go you got it so i'm hoping the old miss gives me a little bit of luck this week. Cause, uh, yeah, you know, your boys one in six, um, another week where,

wow, uh, I lost by a half a point. I had the over in Notre Dame, Louisville, Louisville dropped 30 burger on Notre Dame after we, you know, I think the concern was,

could Louisville score? They did score. Notre Dame just didn't score. Um, so that's back-to-back weeks that I lost by a half point. So I'm going to, I'm going to skip out on the totals this week. You are,

how are you feeling, Kyle? I didn't want your pick yet. I just want to skip out on the totals this week. You are. How are you feeling, Kyle? I don't even want your pick yet. I just want like general mental health awareness. It's just funny now. It's just funny. We're locked in. It's a long season. It's funny.

Hey, look, it's wide open. It's still wide open. I don't want to hear about that 0-2 start team thing. I don't care. Because if you've got the passion that Cerruti has, that's different. There's plenty of 0-2 guys out there that have no chance. Again, we hit week one. We hit the parlay week one.

Yeah, the parlay's a little tough. They're a little tough, but we still have the individual season thing, which we've not placed any stakes on, but that's all right. We'll figure it out because I still owe for last year anyway. So who knows? We'll get desserts and apps. What are you looking at, though? I'm just trying to dig into your head

because you've had these tight misses. And then what happened? You gave out four thoughts and the other three won and the one you picked lost by a point. Is that what happened recently? The week that I took... SC Colorado?

Was it that? Yeah, I think it was that. That was the SC over. Then it was 48 and a half and they missed an extra point and they looked like they were going to score 70. And missed the field goal late. They had 48 points in the third quarter

and didn't score the rest of the game. Good times. I gave out the Kentucky spread against Florida. They smashed Florida. I gave out the under in the Utah game, I believe, that week, too. That hit the under, and I just missed my best bet. So, again, I'm seeing ghosts. I'm in my head here. I mean, you're still above five five but you're four and three kyle's two and five i'm

one and six so you know again if you're fading you're still making money so happy for everybody i myself i'm you know i'm just i'm just missing it on a couple of them you know so i feel like i mean even even the thursday night or the half point. I was like, ah. Sometimes you just rather get your brains beat in than have hope up until the final gun. So let's see here. Who wants to go first? I don't think anybody wants to go first anymore. I'll go first.

I'll go first. Look, I've been saying I think Oregon's a more complete team because I think there's some defensive different makers. That's just an observation. Looking at the health report for the Huskies and ducks here. It appears again, we're taping this early Friday morning. So you never know,

but leaning in, in the direction of everybody feeling like they're ready to go here. So if I can get the field goal on the road, I'm going to go ahead and take it based on just, you know, how I feel about the two and take it based on just, you know, how I feel about the two, the two teams. I,

you know, I don't, I don't think one's staggeringly better than the other one. But I'm just kind of going with, Hey, I'll take the points. If I think one team has a little bit more talent on one side of the football.

So there you go. Ducks. The funny thing was I, I was going to take Washington. So I guess we'll cross that one off. See, but now I feel bad because I picked the Ducks and we're not picking the same game.

So now it feels like with the way things are going, Washington's going to win and cover, and then your pick's going to lose, and it's going to be even worse. Yep. So let's just get that jinx out of the way now. That's why we described it. That's exactly what's going to happen.

I don't want to talk you in or out of anything, by the way. No, I got a weird one. I got a weird one that I really like. I kind of ran it by you as well. I am going to take Indiana in the points, by the way. No, I got a weird one. I got a weird one that I really like. I kind of ran it by you as well. I am going to take Indiana and the points, 33 and a half. I'm getting 33 and a half points at Michigan.

I know it's scary, but I believe like basically any team this year that's been favored by 30 more points, they're well under 500 against the spread. Michigan, you know, I know they're murdering people,

but they're due for some sort of weird game here. Well, maybe a little aggression back to the mean. I thought it was funny that the over under the team total for Indiana's points is six and a half. So I was kind of tempted to just say, hey, can they score a touchdown? Sure. And garbage time. But I'll take the 33 and a half points with Indiana and probably sweat that one out until the very end. God, I really like that six and a half. I'm not trying to talk you out of anything here and i agree with you i think michigan is just destroying everybody that eventually they're they'll get bored enough not to lose to one of these teams but so i uh i don't know if it's

going to happen against the hoosiers but there's probably i mean again that's not exactly like real fucking intense handicapping to be like hey michigan will probably take a week off here the next couple months you can say next week, you know, looking ahead. Who knows? I don't know. I don't think they – Indiana, new offensive – I think they fired their offensive coordinator, too. They're terrible in offense.

But both of these teams are just kind of like slow, grinded-out offenses. I think there could be a lot of – 29 against Akron. Won a close one. 41 against Indiana State. They'll put it on you if you don't show up. But again, it's on the road.

All right, Kyle. All right, well, I've tried everything. I've tried vibes. I've tried research, phone a friend. None of it's really panned out. So I'm going back to vibes. I think Kansas is on a roll. Their basketball program just avoided sweeping penalties

and stuff like that. So good job by them. Side step, the postseason ban. penalties and stuff like that. So good job by them. Sidestep the postseason ban. And the interesting thing is they are playing at Oklahoma State, right? Who was a part of this same six-year investigation and did receive a postseason ban. And Oklahoma State head coach

for the basketball team had some worries, but they are playing each other this week. I'm taking Kansas minus two and a half at Oklahoma State uh i think we'll keep the good vibes going for kansas and also they're ranked in oklahoma state is not so a little bit of vibes a little bit of research i'm taking kansas minus two and a half at oklahoma state okay then uh oklahoma state coming off a nice win against kansas state although every time kansas state loses i'm like oh that's a nice win you know because i actually thought kansas state was going to be better this year but also mizzou's off a nice one against Kansas State. Although every time Kansas State loses, I'm like, oh, that's a nice win. You know, because I actually thought Kansas State was going to be better this year.

But also Mizzou's a little bit better than people thought, too. So when they won that close one there. All right. I like it. I like it. Everybody kind of came in ready to go, ready to reset. We're due. The Alliance.

Check out all the lines on sportsbook.fanduel.com. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice, lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. What is up to Steve and Kyle? Also remember Friday Feedback, anything about the show, anything that we've done that's not directly related to Life Advice, Friday Feedback, rr at gmail.com as well. Okay, so actually we're going to give a little feedback to a bunch of listeners that thought we were idiots here when we talked about the GM survey. Although I did hear from one team that was like, you spent more time on the survey than we did. So I was like, oof, okay.

Is that kind of surprising to you? No, not even close. I don't know. Would you want some random staffer putting their... I don't know, because these guys get ridiculed for this stuff. So maybe they don't care at all. And I guess that's the answer,

but I'm just kind of surprised. I just think in the day-to- of like what a GM has to worry about. There's just no way this poll, although I enjoy it every single year. And I'm not like, but I just look at that was one team, one team that was like, you guys really like to pull, huh? So here's the point is that the Jokic talk about how he wasn't the overall center. And we understand, again, Calvin Booth can't vote for his own guy. But what I think was lost in some of the people thinking that we were too stupid to realize that the vote was just coming from Denver every time is like, one, do you think that's

the case every time? Do you think that if you were the Denver GM, you were voting for Embiid every time in some of these. And the other part that doesn't make any sense is, again, when it was who's the best center, okay, one guy couldn't vote for Jokic, right, that runs Denver. But there was another vote, and it was Embiid, and it was Anthony Davis. That means another non-Denver GM voted for somebody other than Jokic, which I find very surprising after last season. The other one, if you were starting a franchise, who would you take? Jokic won with 10 of the 30 votes. So that means one vote definitely couldn't come from Denver, but it means that, you know, does it mean that he, that guy was always voting for Embiid when Embiid got one of those votes,

which again, doesn't even make any sense. It has nothing to even do with Embiid. But if you were to think about Embiid aging later on, it's just the wrong answer. As great as Embiid is winning an MVP, it still feels like the wrong answer. And if you were going to say like, okay, center, I'm not going to vote for my guy and vote for Embiid. Okay, fine. But again, someone else still voted for a different non-Jokic option. But in this case, the rest of the palette is open for you. You know what I mean? Like you can pick anybody. And if you can't pick Jokic, are you going to be like, hey, I'm going to go ahead and pick Embiid. Like how do we know Denver didn't vote for Giannis or Wim Binyana? You know what I'm saying? So I guess I'm surprised at how many people,

because you eventually tweeted about it a little bit because it was just like, you guys don't get it. And it's like, well, the center thing destroys the entire theory that it's only Denver doing this for Embiid every single time because another GM didn't vote Jokic at that position. Like every in all four of those categories we talked about, it was it couldn't have just been Calvin Booth voting for somebody else. There was there was two at least two non-Yokich votes in all of those categories. So, I mean, maybe Calvin Booth. Who knows? But like, it's more likely than not that he didn't. And I thought it was kind of funny. I had a lot of guys tweeting me like conspiracy theories about who they thought it was going to be. And one of them was the Lakers.

Who knows? Palenka. Maybe he doesn't fill it out. So just the Lakers in general, just because of like the beef between them and Denver and Mike Malone was the Lakers. Who knows? Palenka, maybe he doesn't fill it out. So just the Lakers in general, just because of the beef between them and Denver and Mike Malone talking all that shit. Somebody else said, could it be Leon Rose? Because he's, what, Embiid's former agent,

and obviously they probably want to get Embiid. Think about the Palenka thing, though, for center. He can't vote Anthony Davis. Yeah. Yeah, so maybe Calvin Booth voted Anthony Davis. There you go. Well, whatever. I mean, we got it. Kyle, do you think we summarized that well? Yeah, I have no thoughts. Yeah. So maybe Calvin Booth voted Anthony Davis. Yeah. You know. Well, whatever. I mean, we got it.

Kyle, do you think we summarized that well? Yeah. I have no thoughts. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Good stuff. Kyle, he always keeping us in check.

All right. I like this. I like this title. Shirt off. Let's see. Let's see what we got here. 32, 6'1", 225, bench bench 295 squat 335 great deadlift cool um he's got draymond with no court vision good defense all right back to christmas 22

i'm headed home to see the family get the only notification you ever want from an airline you've been upgraded to first class shout out delta gold there's nothing like that little when you you scan your thing and there's the little beep and then there's that little delay and then the thing prints out something and you're like, whoa. Wouldn't have been a part of that. We'll have to someday.

A little bit of inside jokes. All right, so my trip's already made. Once I got to security, I do the natural thing. We go back to my gate, make sure it exists and confirm there's been no changes to the flight. Standing at my gate is a very attractive woman. She's wearing a white and black houndstooth coat. It looks so distinguished. I consider trying to come up with something to say to her on the spot instead of retreat to the closest bar. I decided to shake off the shame of not saying hi and revel in the joy of my upcoming first class seat. So I get a beer and

a shot, then a few more. Something about me. I despise being in airplanes when they're not in the ground. It feels like the biggest waste of time. Airplanes were meant to be in the air if possible. I like to be the last person aboard. I know what you're going to say. You're worried about the overhead space being taken. It's a risk I take. I do the same thing. I'll go to the gate. I love the, hey, just make sure the gate exists, the gate check-in. I'm a big fan of the gate check-in. Make sure it exists. Then maybe per-in make sure it exists and then maybe you know peruse a bookstore um look at overpriced snacks I'm still telling you if a president said I don't have any platform other than I just want to charge less for water airports the guy would win

it's all he would have to do like I'm not really good at a lot of stuff economy don't really get it foreign relations poor and I've never been outside of new england but let's let's get these these bottled water prices down at hudson news so um i i i now look somebody's gonna say obviously because the storage thing as he pointed out that that's just a risk some people will not take um there's also somebody who said that if you are in first class you actually do want to get on the plane earlier, right? So really, so really is nodding in agreement here.

Well, what I was saying was if you're in first class, you've got your own overhead storage anyway, so nobody can use your bathroom or your bins. Right. And isn't that, isn't that what you guys do up there? That's the theory.

Yeah, that's the theory. But yeah, I mean, people, people use the bathroom all the time so if you're in first class you're saying you want to get on the plane early why so like people could like walk by

and be like look at the first class people look at me I'm in first class look at all the pours no it's so you can get a drink they come right up to you you get a drink it's comfortable so they like to get one in you and then they

offer you a blanket maybe yeah as soon as you take off i don't know i haven't seen the blanket stuff as much lately i've thought i've been in the middle of a plane ride and thinking man i really could use a blanket and i saw those guys up there got blankets sometimes they're comforters kyle okay they just hug you in the air all right so um he said given i was first class i knew my overhead space was guaranteed so i made sure i was the absolute last person aboard the plane at this point i'm feeling great booze is kicking in and the momentary disappointment in my earlier timidness is completely forgotten as i'm making my way to the seat last row in first class i see the woman in the coat again and you guessed it we're sitting next to each other nice rocking my newfound confidence courtesy of the airport bar i

try i drop a nice compliment on our coat and conversation starts flowing we have a great friendly flight with the right amount of chat without becoming exhausting or weird that's tough to do man well done to you at the end of it we decided to exchange instagram to stay in touch now we live in different cities and have made the occasional IG comment over the last few months, but nothing substantial and definitely not sexual except the occasional heart on a bikini beach story. Hey, just, yeah, I like that. I'm paying attention. I see what you're doing. I'm going to acknowledge it. I'm not going to be weirdo about it. Anyway, this week I have a business trip in our city. I saw that she's started running recently, which I've also gotten into over the last year. So I suggest we go on a

run together, which she agrees to at this point. I think, you know, I'm getting that good old fashioned Lloyd Christmas feeling that I'll do anything. I think we'll plan to meet at the beach for the run. So my question, do I go shirt off? Should I do it right away? Do I wait until it gets super sweaty or just stay shirt on the whole time? Maybe skimpy shirt? What? Skimpy shirt? Like, um, accentuates your, you know, skimpy.

Yeah. If you're planning on going shirt off, you've obviously got something you want to show off. So maybe, maybe leave a little bit to the imagination. So she's not like, you you know this guy's been keeping his distance uh you know he's been everything's been fine he hasn't done anything wrong yet he's he's handled this long distance acquaintance thing well and then he shows up shirt off maybe maybe just leave a little something to be desired and then you could feel out the shirt off situation based on his size 61225 a bench squat deadlift number of

295 335 375 like he's into it he's probably in pretty good shape right you're right he wants to take his shirt off badly um i kind of wish he wasn't in good shape that'd be a way better story yeah like the fact that you're asking us maybe is gonna is is maybe the biggest like you're you're thinking about this my look as somebody who doesn't understand why it's okay to wear shorts at a restaurant but you can't go in with your shirt off um i i think it's totally totally fine but it's this is really about you know the the turf that you're playing on here you know like you know is it is it responsive and bouncy or is it is it just compact hard and unforgiving so i what i would do is i would use it as an opportunity to let her know that you

thought about it but you're not going to do it and you could just say hey i was going to take my shirt off but i want to move slow that's funny right it's now yeah but it also is like classic me where if the person that i were talking to like doesn't get that sense of humor it's like this guy sucked like he said he wanted to take his shirt off but he didn't yeah you talked for a while on a plane though so like and it was comfortable and not weird so i kind of feel like i wouldn't worry about that i think i think they have good back and forth i think he understands her humor a little bit to know whether or not that'd be funny or not yeah but she didn't have any other options on the plane she probably has plenty of options in life so he's gotta now we're out there you know like

she was it worked on the plane and that's great i don't think you take it off right away uh even if you have a sick torso i would i would because if you even the thing is is if you if you were that great of shape and you immediately go shirts off she may be like oh my god i met this guy it was kind of funny in the plane but like what an egomaniac and take the shirt off immediately because he's got six abs and like whatever you know because those of us that have four like six guys are tough those two lower ones are tough to deal with so anyway uh, uh, I like, I like the idea of, of making a joke about it and not just immediately ripping your shirt off. Okay. Because if everything doesn't work out, she's going to see you with your shirt off at some point. Anyway. Um, I think there's a greater risk on starting it shirts off

than there is. Yeah. So, right. We're all on the same page here, even though I like where your head is at. Is that fair? Yeah. Like what's the,

what's the end game scenario of you taking your shirt? Like, I think we know what it is. Well, do you think she's going to be like, you know what? Let's just skip the run and go back to my place. Like,

that's not like, I also, if you're like, we're just kind of a, as Kyle said, like wear a tighter shirt, she's going to know that you're in shape. She doesn't need to see it. Like leave a little bit for the imagination. Maybe she's going to want to be, Oh, I kind of a, as Kyle said, like wear a tighter shirt. She's going to know that you're in shape. She doesn't need to see it.

Like leave a little bit for the imagination. Maybe she's going to want to be, Oh, I kind of want to see what's under there later. If she sees it right away, like you're kind of, I don't know. You're kind of ruining the,

the, you know, the surprise a little bit. So I, I'm very anti taking off his shirt in this situation. I am too. But I guess what the interesting thing, I think I get the,

like when you said, what's the goal, this is like a short business trip, right? Like he's wheels up, probably not first class in like a couple days right so he's really like he's trying to speed this along and uh so maybe he's just like if i can if i could get if i could get the body out there maybe we could speed this up a little bit because uh you know they've kind of went back and forth with nothing major in between and they're in different

cities so he's like he's probably in and out right this isn't like a month-long training session right probably a short business trip can you just see how it goes and like maybe midway through you take it you take the shirt off yeah i just don't know that right away i definitely agree that he shouldn't do it right away what if it's south beach and you do kind of like a shirts off but you like do it in the front so like you're pulling it up and over and it's like right out of a i can i don't know jacar i can't even think of it right now jacar jacar noir ad and you're just like all right cool water and then you just get underneath the beach shower and you're like oh my god it's i really started heating up there towards the end and it's just like rain and moisture just coming down and the other thing what is she wearing like if she if she wears like you

know just like she was sort of running shorts yeah and no shirt no yeah no she if she's like just in like the sports bra thing like maybe it's on like maybe she's it's just kind of show up your body season but if she's in like a shirt i would assume let's keep it conservative you know what sucks this guy's not even thinking about is if it does work out and then she's going to come visit you, she's going to think you're buying her first class ticket because you were sitting in first class. That's hilarious. Yeah.

The other thing, too, is like I was thinking that like so she probably didn't get gifted the first class ticket. So, you know, chances are if she's single, maybe she's like on Raya, like one of those like I don't know. She probably has some money. So you see she's been flown in here. What are you saying? I'm just saying I could be dating her.

Take it easy. I understand why he's trying to impress her. She seems like a, you know, she's probably really attractive. She's sitting first class, high class person. Like it's a it's a it's a tough pull. So he's trying to pull out all the stops. I just don't know that shirts off right away is the call. Yeah, let's play it safe here.

Although if they do follow each other on Instagram, she could probably smell the poor on him. If he's if she is that like she is that upper level person and she's been following him like you can't hide that forever i don't know dude you guys made a living hiding that forever so uh anyway all right uh this one sucks i feel bad for this guy but let's try to get through it um a bit involved but i literally can't talk to anyone else about it. I need some perspective from impartial parties. My wife and I have been together for 12 years, married for eight, two small children, just bought a house in the suburbs. We're both in our forties, but relatively attractive and fit for our ages. Life is always challenging and marriage

isn't easy, especially with kids, but I always felt we were making it through fairly well. I've generally been the one to initiate both romance and intimacy since the birth of our first child, so it's certainly not absent from our relationship. She would sometimes complain about my issues and emotional detachment, nothing major. I'm just not an oversharer with feelings, but overall, I feel I'm good and faithful.

I'm a good and faithful husband who supports and loves my wife and kids. Recently, both arguing and hooking up had become more frequent. and faithful uh i'm a good and faithful husband who supports and loves my wife and kids recently both arguing and hooking up and become more frequent okay uh our house has been a challenge and she hates her job but i thought that these animated conversations were actually a good thing because it made each of us more aware of issues and it led to a few fun nights together one random evening evening she handed me her phone to look at our bank account since there was a charge she couldn't figure out.

As I was looking at it, she received a WhatsApp from someone. I swiped to move it out of the way and it opened instead. I realized quickly it was from some guy who was sending her a picture of himself in bed. I scrolled a little north to also find a pic she sent of him, of her, and her underwear. My heart went from my throat to my stomach instantaneously as i realized my life as i knew it was over i gathered myself and calmly confronted her about it she said it was quote harmless flirting unquote with a guy she dated 20 years ago before me and he had reached out because he had a dream about her fucking dream guys again um i said it was

actually very harmful to our family and asked if they were sleeping together she said no which i think i believe and then i asked who else she did this with she said no one but i don't know what to believe given her relatively nonchalant demeanor about the whole thing i'm telling you right now the nonchalant thing kind of sucks it's like worse than her getting really mad because she still thinks she could get out of it if she could just make you seem like you're an idiot for being upset but she's yeah freaking out inside and she's just not showing it yeah right right so I mean it's weird thing about arguments because you can be like really clever with retorts but ultimately like I was I was in a disagreement with somebody and they had said like you know whatever whatever

about the point that i was trying to make and i was like well you know that i'm right because you're arguing it so strongly and then it was like yeah but if they completely ignored what i was telling them they were wrong about i would say you know that i'm right because you don't even want to engage and like both sound like really well crafted retort, but they're, they're saying the same thing for two completely different outcomes. So like whenever you have these arguments and I can see like people, whether it's dialogue and like a TV show or whatever, like there's always smart things to say in response to try to keep winning your position. But a lot of times the smart thing contradicts the other smart thing where you're still trying to come to the same conclusion.

So anyway, the fact that she was like nonchalant about it, maybe it means she knows it was like really stupid and she can't believe she's in this situation. And this actually is the only time she's ever done it and the only thing she's ever done. And this is the full scope of what happened and that she's telling you the truth. And she feels so fucking stupid about it that she doesn't want to address it anymore. The problem is that's not how life works. It's not how our brains work and it's not how your brain works so let's keep reading the email she did apologize showing what seemed to be more genuine remorse and said it wouldn't happen again she also insisted that she wasn't trying to break us up i've decided to not bring it up again is to not punish her and make our fragile relationship worse but it has

consumed my thoughts ever since which i know is affecting my mood as well leading to more arguments about ancillary issues i truly love my wife and don't want to be divorce guy uh nor lose the family we've built together i definitely don't want my daughters to have a stepdad who thinks it's cool to send married pics of himself uh we'll just leave it at that uh because it was a pretty aggressive picture based on what this guy is saying all right that sucks uh i can't talk to my friends about this i don't want them to have a negative view of my wife or a negative view of me and by the way you don't want to do that because those guys are going to tell their wives like it will make the rounds and all this stuff because there'll be one guy in your friend group that you can't trust because he tells his wife fucking everything and then this thing

will spread um so i think you're really smart to try to do that with your first circle of friends. But I'm quite confused back to the email. I'm quite confused as to what is an appropriate response and disappointed in both her and the world. Am I taking this too hard or too lightly? It's probably just helpful for me to type this email out, get out of my head. Thoughts are appreciated. So look, don't feel bad about feeling bad, first of all, okay? Because I would be, again, if I were in your situation, I'd be doing the same deal. Like if I've been with this person 12 years, married for eight, have a family, you know, the normal back and forth, ups and downs of relationship. And then this is out of nowhere, like the first time, like, look, there's somebody who I had gotten back together with who, when we went out to eat, the phone was always facing down. Okay. And then

there was another time where I was like, Hey, we should go in here. And I knew that she saw a car of somebody else and didn't want to go in there while the guy was in there. And I fucking totally figured out. And I was like, I'm just not going to say anything. Just not going to say anything because I just knew it wasn't going to work out. I just knew it wasn't going to work out, but I could tell I had little things that I was putting together where I'm like, I don't know exactly what it is, but I know something's up and something's fucked up about this whole thing. And guess what? That one didn't work out either. So the point is, is if you've had none of those, now there's also a part of this too, where we can all be kind of

oblivious. And then you're just blindsided being like, oh my God, now I'm going to go back and replay these timelines. And there was this, and there was that and all these different things. If you have none of those, then, then that that's actually better i feel better in your case but like look if fandu we're going to put a number on this this is the only time she's ever done it you know there wouldn't be great value in that side uh and that's the unfortunate part about this like so what i think you need to do for your own sanity and i don't know that it doesn't guarantee that you're going to get the truth on this is you need to kind of approach it this way. I wouldn't use this terminology, but you need like a one time full blown cross examination.

Okay. Don't use those terms. But go, I need to for my sanity and for our like for the health of this and to get back to the trust level. Because that's a weird fucking thing that she did out of nowhere. She has no interest with this guy. Dated him 20 years ago. Here's me in underwear. Boom. And it's the only time I've ever done it, man. Like, I don't know, but you need to just dig in and go, Hey, look, you don't want to have this conversation cause it sucks, but I need this for us. So I'm going to ask you everything. You're going to be honest with me. I'm going to just keep asking. And then after that,

it's done. Okay. So the reward for you is that once I get everything I need to get talked about here and I get to ask every single question I need to ask for my own sanity after that, I will not bring it up again. Now that's easier said than done for a lot of people, but that might be the bargain here where you can go, we need to talk about this as much as we possibly can with all the depth and all this stuff and be like, you know, look, there's also another part where you can go, we need to talk about this as much as we possibly can with all the depth and all the stuff and be like, you know, look, there's also another part where you could reach out to this jerk off, but you know, I don't know. I don't know that you want to do that, but you might get some better answers. That's probably the last, last resort scenario if you ask me. Well, if she, if she just, I mean, look, I don't know. I don't know the people involved. I don't

know the personalities. I don't know the track record. I mean, the track record appears to be pretty good with this. It's just, I personally, man, and I hate saying people involved. I don't know the personalities. I don't know the track record. The track record appears to be pretty good with this. I personally, man, and I hate saying this too, I personally would have a hard time believing. Why does she have WhatsApp in the first place? Really? Although the fact that she handed you the phone tells me that it's not something she's doing all the time.

It'd be really weird to be married that long, though, and never still be like, Oh, Hey, hand me my phone. You know, and it'd be like, what's wrong with you. Um, I just think that's a really weird deal that out of nowhere, it's like this one ever underwear pick to a dude that she used to hook up with 20 years ago. And like, why did he send that? Why did he send it? He just randomly that one time was like, Hey, check me out naked in bed.'s up oh my god that's hilarious she's today here's me now still hot okay cool enjoy your life hopefully yeah maybe i'll run into you one day i mean again i don't like doing this to the emailer but that is not very realistic you gotta get to the bottom of this somehow i don't know what it is like it sounds like she's not interested

in talking about it especially by how she reacted and then maybe broke down later and sounded a little apologetic. So you could either go it alone and just do your own examination of it, like Ryan said, or maybe you could see if she's into like a couples therapy. Hope you have good insurance. Maybe that'll work. And you can just be like, hey, listen, I want to talk this out and maybe we'll have somebody in the middle of it because I could tell you really don't want to do it. Maybe this person will keep it a little more civil or something, or maybe a little more whatever. But if you don't do something, you're like, you'll probably, you're never going to get over it. Maybe you'll end up cheating or something like that just so you could, you know, and I don't

think you'll feel better at the end of that. But I think you definitely have to do so. You can't do nothing, I don't think, because her explanation was terrible and clearly not good enough for you. And I don't think it should have been. But outside of that, I don't really have a ton of experience with this. So I don't know.

Yeah, I think if the guy didn't, if there's a situation where the guy, the other guy didn't know that you were married, it's probably worth reaching out to him to be like, hey, just like man to man. Like, he clearly knows that she's married, though. They've texted. He's not going to give you, I think,

any information that's going to be helpful to you at all. And it's probably only going to end in you getting even more mad. So I wouldn't recommend doing that. It's one of those weird things, too, where it's like, I know people have different definitions of what cheating is. Some people would be like, well, if there's no contact or whatever you know phone

stuff doesn't count i don't know like to me this is pretty fucked up and i would i don't know i could i was ever in this situation i would consider this to be like pretty close to cheating and i would be pretty devastated by it so yeah i think i think you know i think she has to if she if you ask her for the phone thing and just say, Hey, I want to, I'd like to go through and see what you guys are talking about. Because like, I just,

I just need this for my sanity. And she's like really hesitant about that and doesn't want to do it. I think that's kind of the answer. Um, so I think if you do that, you're going to get the answer one way or another. Either she gives you the phone, you don't find anything or she's like really protective of it.

And then you kind of know something else might be going on and you don't know what that is, but at least it's in the back of your brain so i think i think that's probably the play um she does seem like too cool and like okay i'm not gonna i'm not gonna like make this into a big deal so maybe he'll just it'll just kind of go away and that's a smart play on her part but i i don't that's not that's not like a long-term win for her i don't think uh you know that works like in the like in the first like day or two but then as you think about it more you're like this is in the back of my mind i need to know more information about this so i don't think, you know, that works like in the first like day or two. But then as you think about it more, you're like, this is in the back of my mind. I need to know more information about this.

So I don't know. She's going to have to. It's going to kind of be on her to what she wants to share with you, because that's the only thing that's going to solve this. This is definitely cheating. Like, it's not like this is it's at least intent to sell. You know what I mean? Like you got caught with the baggies all bagged out in the in the car.

You could be like, I just like to parse out my drug use now dude you're selling drugs i will push back some some girls uh and even guys too so that's not like a male female like something just like the attention right and they're just like you know she just wants somebody else to tell her that she's good looking i understand that maybe that's what this is who knows but uh it could definitely just be that you know like just the the way that relationships like you know i mean I mean, everybody knows this. You just with somebody long enough and you start to not do those little things. You know, you don't do those little things reminding the other person of how special they are and all this stuff.

And then as soon as some other fucking guy comes in, although I've always felt like you're right. Like Kyle, guy to guy, the guy may be like hey dude fuck off um i feel like whenever i hear about this stuff women are a little bit more helpful they'll be like oh my god like yeah yeah he said he was he said he was getting divorced do you want to get do you want to meet up yeah do we talk about this do you like avocado toast uh so i don't i don't know i wouldn't start there but you may have to go there if you're not liking the answers that you're gonna get and you know again i don't i don't know your wife so is is her being like oh my god i feel so stupid i'm sorry i don't want to talk about it anymore is that is that normal behavior for her does she like argue about other

things it sounds like it from the email you guys are arguing all the time so now she doesn't want to argue well no you know now I don't want to have a conversation about stuff even though we've been arguing about stuff here for months so but I think Cerruti's point's a good one I think it's it's unfortunately kind of natural progression at times if somebody steps in especially somebody from the past starts telling somebody like oh I did it wrong like the the number of like, when you get older, the number of emails or texts out of nowhere, or it's like, do you ever think in a different world that maybe you and I,

or like, like you just, you younger people listening to this, just get ready for those later on. It just starts, just starts to happen. And you kind of are like, it's a little exciting.

Isn't it? Yeah. It makes you, you know, it gives you a little ego boost. It's funny though. When you're like, not really. I haven't thought. Like it's a little exciting, isn't it? Yeah. It makes you, you know, it gives you a little ego boost. It's funny though. When you're like, not really.

I haven't thought about it. Yeah. Not once, but we're not together. That's great. Never think about it. How are you doing though? What's up?

Sound a little bummed out. Cool. I think we'll end it there alright thanks to Mike people are like who's the mystery third guy every pod so I don't know we have him give a shout next time through thanks Kyle thanks Steve Ryan Russell podcast

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