The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Clemson on Top With Bruce Feldman; Plus NFL Playoffs With Robert Mays | Dual Threat With Ryen Russillo (Ep. 19)

Episode Date: January 9, 2019

Russillo discusses the national championship game with Bruce Feldman of Fox Sports and 'The Athletic' (11:50), before talking with The Ringer's Robert Mays about wild-card weekend results and looking ahead to the NFL divisional playoff round (31:10). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

okay wow wow is all i have to say to start this thing i have more than just wow to say that wouldn't be a very good podcast it is the dual threat podcast presented by the ringer i'm ryan and the college football season is over and it is over in emphatic fashion as Clemson, they are your national champs. But before that, here's what's up from Yahoo Daily Fantasy. That's right. Yahoo Daily Fantasy is starting the year off hot with a $500,000 fantasy football contest that has zero management fee. That means Yahoo is making nothing on this contest.

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make your first deposit for $25 in free play. 44 to 16 over Alabama. And this was a big deal. It's not just a big deal to win a national title. I would never have sat here before and like, look, I thought Bama, they'll figure this thing out. You know, I know that Clemson is the most equipped and this may even sound dismissive to them. But I think if you think of all the teams in college football that have to go up against Alabama and get past that mental hurdle, there's no mental hurdle there for Clemson. They're as comfortable playing Alabama as any team in college football.

I should put it this way. They're more comfortable than any other team in college football playing Alabama and going, look, we've played them before, two national title games before that, probably should have won the first one. We didn't. You could have said the same thing. Alabama could have won the second one. They didn't. So it felt like it was right at one and one, the semifinal, Alabama in control. But then last night to have Saban's Alabama team look as bad as it's ever looked, in control, but then last night to have Saban's Alabama team look as bad as it's ever looked, except for maybe losing to Louisiana Monroe in

2007. This is worse because they got smashed. Smashed. And I started thinking about it going, alright, which it was still a close game after the first quarter despite Tua's mistakes, but Auburn in 2010,

they're up 24-7 on Auburn. They're going to ruin Cam Newton's Heisman run. They're going to ruin Auburn's national title run. And then they get outscored 21-3 in the second half. There was an Ingram fumble there late. They could have made it even a bigger lead, and it didn't, and everything started unraveling. It felt a little Red Sox-, Yankees-ish in 2004.

It really did. I mean, if you're doing Iron Bowl stuff there, you know, Alabama, they're the Yankees. And things, at least for that year, felt a little different. So that was a weird one, but it was still a close game. The Ole Miss 2015 game, again, that was at Tuscaloosa. So to blow a 21-3 lead at the half at home is something. Ole Miss in 2015, they lost by six, 43-37. That was a Chad Kelly game.

Bananas on the sideline. Alabama also, though, in that game had five turnovers total. Ole Miss had none. So that one you could explain away a little bit more. Some people brought up the South Carolina-Garcia-Lattimore game. Look, just South Carolina was terrific in that game. My point is, if you haven't been paying attention, I'm sure you know, some people brought up the South Carolina Garcia Lattimore game. Look, just South Carolina was terrific in that game. My point is, is if you haven't been paying attention, I'm sure you have, or maybe you're just into the NFL stuff.

I'm starting this with the college national championship. Alabama doesn't lose games where they're embarrassed. They don't, they don't do them. I'm not talking about like this season. I'm not talking about like losing to a team that they're ranked higher than they've done that. I mean, they lost Ole Miss twice. They lost to Auburn. They've had some kicking situations to kick six like I can make an argument that if they had better kickers over the year maybe they have two more national titles seriously so to see them get not just beat but beat down it hasn't happened since Nick Saban showed up in Tuscaloosa in 2007.

This was monumental. So what does it mean? Well, we know that defensively, they had some real problems with Trevor Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence on third and long. Okay, hey, it's third and eight. They're going to stop and they're going to get back into this thing. Or he's going to make an absolutely beautiful throw as a true freshman. We know this.

We haven't seen a guy lead his team to a title as a true freshman for a long time. And he does it, and he was brilliant. And it wasn't, you know, look, there was even, if you want to do a real nitpicky grading on him, you could say there's a few throws that he missed some guys on the sidelines. But when the throws mattered, he delivered. And Ross, the receiver who breaks open on that huge play where the corner goes down for Alabama, you're like, alright, so fine. So Bama's

defense and their lack of depth of the D-line, they never really bothered Clemson. They didn't. On the other side for Tua, and he throws the pick six, he played it right. He really sold you that he was totally fine, everything was good. Pats his chest, I got it,

I got it, I got it. Well, he just didn't see it. And you could actually see Saban say, God damn it, Tua, if you read his lips after he threw the pick six. And then the other pick was just as bad, if not worse. So Tua, and I know this is going to sound a lot like, and I'll talk with Bruce Feldman about this, because we've got Feldman coming up,

we've got Robert Mays coming up talking NFL wildcard weekend and look ahead to the divisional stuff too. So we're going to do some NFL with him. And then Bruce was at the national title game. So we'll talk with him there a little bit, but two is somebody that did live dangerously and yet it never seemed to get to him. And you're going to, you're gonna be kidding me.

The guy had like two picks all season long. I know I'm telling you when you watched it, you're like, okay, I guess that's going to work. I guess it just always works for Tua. And then it stopped kind of working. It didn't work against Georgia. And I don't know if that was just the ankle injury. He was really beat up in that game. But that one pick that he had at the goal line, you're like, what were you, what did you see there? So to see somebody who's so clean

statistically and a guy that was going to win the Heisman, if not for a bad statistical game against Georgia, to see him just not be locked in. And here's the thing. Bama ran it successfully last night. They could run the football well. And I felt like at one point Saban just kind of doubted Tua. Doubted Tua to just go. There was about, I don't know, they're down three scores, 20 minutes left to go in the game.

And they were still running the football instead of just having Tua chuck it all over the place. They did run it well. Jacobs was great in some of the short yardage situation where they were running him goal line. Not goal line, but wildcat kind of stuff. But just a dominant, dominant performance from Clemson, where I never ever would have thought it'd be surprising if they won. I guess what I'm telling you is, what, 11, 10 years of this stuff, really surprising to see a Bama team look completely outclassed. Now, some of the other

things that I don't love in the aftermath of this story, the Saban getting out coach, I never quite know who, I think a lot of times the guys say, Hey, I was out coach. They just say that because it sounds like the right thing to do. I would argue that 75% of the time a coach says, I don't even know what the hell the real number is when they go, I was out coached 75% of the time a coach says, I don't even know what the hell the real number is, when they go, I was outcoached, 75% of the time they don't actually believe it. They just want to sound like they didn't. But Saban was outcoached. The fake field goal with the holders,

the lead blocker for the kicker against Clemson. The other fourth down call with Tua where he rolls out, and I don't know if that's not on him to try to make a throw or if that's a straight run. And it felt like Saban just going, I can't stop these guys at any turn so a lot of the fourth down conversions it was working for him but on those specifically it didn't work and the fact that he missed an extra point so maybe he was like cool I have another bad kicker situation um the end of Bama we started seeing some of that floating around on Twitter last night I saw one

college football reporter say just talked to a power five defensive coordinator, said, this is it. This is the end of Bama. Maybe. I mean, stuff ends, right? Stuff ends when we never think that it can end. The Golden State Warriors are going through their struggles. People thought at their beginning of their peak

that they'd win, like Van Gundy's going to, said, I don't know, it was like, we're going to win seven, or not we, but unless he takes over as head coach, it'd be weird because Kerr's doing a pretty good job. But Van Gundy was like, they're going to win the next seven titles. And but unless he takes over as head coach, it'd be weird because Kerr's doing a pretty good job. But Van Gundy was like, they're going to win the next seven titles. And you go, well, it's probably not going to be the next seven. Now we don't even know if it's going to be this year.

I'd still pick the Warriors, but I don't feel as good about them. But stuff ends. Okay, so the Bama thing, despite never ending, and it's already absurd it's gone on this long that it could have been a sixth title in nine years. The fact that they get housed like this, I'm still not willing. Like, I will rather be wrong than be the guy that's trying to be right because being right is good for business, even though I don't think there's anything that would tell you that it's going to be over right now.

It's not going to be over from a recruiting standpoint because they still have, by some accounts, the number one class. I know Fowler brought this up, not Chris Fowler trivia, and I didn't really love that comment because he was like, well, you know, all this coaching turnover and the consistency for Clemson and the lack of consensus consistencies for Alabama. That's leading to some of this as Clemson was starting to run away for the game. And a lot of that had to do, too, with the one receiver who was just, you know, Justin Ross, who had the six catches for 153, that he was a guy that was supposed to go to Alabama. And he had said the turnover on that Bama coaching staff led to him going to Clemson.

That may be the case absolutely for him specifically, but whenever you're going to talk about a team struggling or a coach losing it or the inconsistency on a coaching staff, meaning the team is having a hard time, don't be 14 and Oh, and number one in the country until we figure that out. And then you lose in the national title, be six and six. And that's always in the national title. Be 6-6.

And that's always my point with this stuff. Like we start to go, hey, Belichick has had a real lean couple years from a draft standpoint. He's lost it. Okay, there's still the two seed with a home bye. So I, you know, they're struggling and there's having things not be perfect or pointing out some of the things that are going wrong while you're getting destroyed in the national championship game. Another story that I saw play out all year long, hey, they went with Trevor Lawrence because that was the only way Dabo knew

that he could beat Alabama, so that's why he made the switch from Kelly Bryant. Or Trevor Lawrence is just a lot better than Kelly Bryant. Because the counter, what you're saying, is if there were no Alabama, if there were no traditional juggernaut, if there was no team that maybe is in the greatest dynasty run that we'd ever seen in college football,

and there's an argument to be made for Alabama on that one. Because back in the day, seven teams used to win different polls, national championships, and Bama did claim a few of those. But if you're talking right now, what Bama had done prior to last night is as impressive as I believe any run, maybe a Notre Dame thing in there. But look, I just think it's that impressive. So the whole Trevor Lawrence thing, and I've seen guys say this, and it sounds good, like it's a lot of fun.

All of us get paid to talk about stuff, and you want to stand out. You want to say something different. That's why guys on TV will be saying Bama's done because it's just better for business. If you end up being right, you can say I was right. If you're wrong, nobody really keeps track anyway. But I don't ever like saying that stuff because it just, it doesn't make any sense. And the absurdity of Trevor Lawrence only being the starter because in Alabama exists. So then what you're saying is that Dabble would knowingly have the better quarterback sit around and watch Kelly Bryant. That's so stupid.

And I just don't think that would happen. So, that's where I'm at with it last night. Congrats to Clemson. Outstanding. I don't really have much else to say. It was a beating. It was an absolute beating in a way that I didn't think was possible. Again, not saying that Clemson wasn't going to win.

But, man, we just haven't seen it. And that's why that's such a big deal. We're going to talk about all that stuff with Bruce Feldman here coming up from The Athletic and Fox Sports. And then Maze from Ringer on the NFL playoffs. And I will, with Feldman, too, get to a little bit of this NFL coaching stuff. And I'll ask Maze about it, too, so we get the college and football perspective on all the rumors and all the stuff that's going on.

And we're doing that coming up next. As I said, at the top of this thing, Bruce, I'm not surprised Clemson won the national championship. I just can't believe we saw Bama lose in this fashion. What was it about last night? You know,

I think what, what they were able to do is something. I talked to one of the Oklahoma coaches two nights before the game, and there was some frustration because they thought there were some things they could take advantage of with the Alabama secondary. And Kyler Murray had some success in the second half, but they just felt their speedy little guy, Marquise Brown, was not healthy. He really didn't have much of an effect.

They pointed out some stuff that, quite honestly, I hadn't heard from other people. Clemson has a lot of big athletic receivers, and what was a surprise to me was how well they protected. But from talking to guys in the Clemson locker room, they're like, are you kidding? Look at that defensive line they go up against

every day at practice. And it's true. I mean, Alabama, as good as Quentin Williams is, Alabama's D-line isn't as good as Clemson's. And so's true. I mean, Alabama, as good as Quentin Williams is, Alabama's D-line isn't as good as Clemson's. And so if they could hold up against that and practice against that, I think it played well. And credit to them because they got some turnovers. They got two picks on Tua.

They baited him into some things because they know he takes chances. And they really exploited it. It was a good game plan. One of their co-offense coordinator, Jeff Scott, told me they played them four times. This was the most confidence they had in their game plan and any of those, they felt really good about it and it played the script. I think some of them probably didn't expect to win by four touchdowns

but you just don't see Nick Saban's team dominated the way they did. Had anyone talked to you about Tua in that? And it's something I brought up, so I want to ask you about it. And it may seem, you know, I really don't love playing the results kind of conversation about sports and going, oh, okay, well, you know, I always thought this. But I did always kind of keep a Bama game on because a lot of times it would be on earlier. And I would just leave it up even though everybody else would probably change the channel. And the thing that I always thought was kind of consistent about Tua

is that there were so many throws where I was like, I can't even believe he made that throw. And it worked. And I know he got hurt against Georgia, but there was the throw at the goal line. There was another throw. He read the corner wrong on the first pick. The other throw was just a terrible pick. And so it sounds absurd after as efficient a season we conceived the position and the fact

that if it wasn't for the Georgia game, he probably wins the Heisman. So it sounds stupid, but had you ever heard anybody say that like as great as Tua is, there's actually some more risk that he takes out there as a quarterback than he would need to. Yeah, somebody had pointed out to me after last year's national title game and said, look, there was a couple of throws here where it was like this was supposed to go to that guy and it was fortunate it went there. This player should have picked this off.

But now he's got, you know, this is Dilford, he's got tremendous arm talent and he can see the field better than most college quarterbacks can. But he hasn't played much college football, right? and he can see the field better than most college quarterbacks can. But he hasn't played much college football, right? You know, I mean, he played very little last year. This season he played, you know, he was a starter,

and he played most of the year. It wasn't like he was deep into games. But this was the first defense that really, I think, you know, had the athletes up front on the defensive line. You know, Auburn has some of those. Certainly Mississippi State does. But I think they also had a plan for it. And they, like I said, they were able to bait them into some things that other people maybe couldn't exploit. You know, LSU wasn't able to get pressure because it was good that they were on the back end.

They don't have, right now, what Clemson has up front. So I think there's a lot of stuff that's fed into it. And, you know, it's kind of one of those things, live by the sword, die by the sword. I mean, he was great last year taking chances. He's mostly gotten away with it. He didn't get away with it last night. You know, it's a picture poison.

And one of those things that makes them great sometimes can be a downfall. And usually their defense is good enough to overcome it. And that proved to be another issue. So it was like they got beat on every level last night. And that was kind of a real eye-opener for a lot of folks, including myself in college football. I always like reminding people, and I know your colleague, who we've all known is one of the great things about the jobs,

is all hanging out on the road together and just talking ball. And Andy Staples in his kind of Clemson, you have to write these pieces where it's not just a recap of the game. You have to then explain the magnitude of what this is that we're seeing and that somebody may have dethroned Alabama. I don't know if this is the end of it. We'll get into that a little bit later. But when Dabo took over, especially some SEC people laughed because it was like,

oh, you know, the goofy walk-on receiver who was like on the staff in 2000, like, give me a break. And even Dabo in the piece with Staples said he called his wife and said, hey, we're fired. And even worse news, I'm the interim head coach because those guys don't keep their job so i just remember doing radio back then and i was traveling like nobody thought that this was real how did he do this how was he able to do this i mean some of it when he said in the post game last night he's like oh we're a little old clemson i'm supposed to be here it's like well relax dude i mean you've played in three of the title games you've been in the playoff four straight years here so it's not like you're nobody's um but how has he been able to do this?

Because it's just, I don't know. I don't think anybody ever thought that this was going to happen for a guy that had his background. Well, I think the biggest thing was he is genuine, and the players see that. The recruits believe it.

So they're getting players. They're aggressive recruiters. They're getting players. They're getting kids who believe in the culture that he was creating. I think one of the things where a lot of us in the media get it wrong is we just assume because most guys get promoted up from being coordinators that if they weren't Dave Aranda or if they weren't Lincoln Riley that they won't be able to do it as a head coach. And the reality is, if you're the head coach, you probably hired those same kinds of guys. You're paying them a lot of money. And your job is to get the team right for Saturday.

I mean, that's the truth. And I think we've seen plenty of examples. I mean, I see this example with Ed Ogeron to a large degree, where his personality is different from Dabo, but he's a high-energy, big recruiter guy who is a motivator. And I think where it matters is, after year three at Clemson, there was a lot of people in this day and age who would have fired Dabo Swede. Why would they be loyal to him? It's like, what had he done? But he had recruited well, and they believed in the culture around it.

And then it kept growing, and they kept on taking steps. You know, they got better under Taj Boyd, and they couldn't reach it. And then, well, then Deshaun Watson got there, and he got him over the top.

And now they have another generational quarterback, and it's like, so, I think the big thing was he's genuine. I think he had a plan. He surrounded himself with good people

who believed in it. And I also think credit to that administration. They were really patient. A lot of other places would have pulled the plug on year three by him if they didn't see enough results and just go, well, you lost too many conference games and this is not good enough. And they're getting rewarded because they've got, you know, right now that's the coolest thing going because kids look at that and go,

man, he's not going to grind me. He's not going to, you know, just wear me down. And kids feel happy about it. And he's developing NFL players too. And so now they're getting great at practice every day, and that's the development piece. And I think that's why it's rolling now. Yeah, it's really important to point that out because he takes over those seven games in 2008.

He's 4-3, and then they're 9-5. They win the Music City, but then they go 6-7. They lose their bowl game. They're not even ranked. And that's probably at 6-7 we go, hey, did we really ever think that this guy at 38 was going to be ready to be coaching Clemson? And despite all the jokes nationally

about what Clemson may or may not have been, which I didn't always think were entirely fair, it was still a program that, and I know ACC people hate this, but it was always looked at as like, that's kind of the SEC program. Like other than Florida State, if Clemson ever figured this thing out, you know, that's that, and that's kind of how Clemson looked at themselves in the mirror. Like they don't think that this is some sort of fluke that they're not supposed to be here, but he fired what a bunch of different coordinators. He finally got it right, and I think a big part of that, too, is the luck of Venables

being at Oklahoma and then Stoops bringing his brother back in, where I don't think Venables ever would have left that kind of situation. And now, I think a lot of people look at Venables going, well, if this guy's actually figured out how to slow some of these teams down unlike anybody else, why doesn't he get more

i don't want to call it love for head coaching but i think it's pretty clear that he's not in a hurry to leave because one he's paid so well and two i think he just likes his setup and now we start talking about like family members that are on this squad that it's all really kind of come together in the last few years it's exactly right and and he's also a really good recruiter and he's got a lot of perspective. You know, I've talked to him quite a bit over the years about what's the next move for you.

And he's going to be really choosy because he doesn't want to take just a job. He loves what he's doing. Now, what I think makes him so good, the defensive coordinators, he's a phenomenal play caller. And you talk to coaches who have to deal with them and he keeps people off

balance. He, he, you know know he knows situations really well so i think what what the other team is doing he has a feed on it and um you just saw that last night i mean it was early and then once you get to once you get the feel for what another team is doing i mean he's about as good a defensive play caller as there is i mean at one point after the end of the first quarter, they outscored Alabama 30-3. Now, the 30 is obviously noteworthy, but holding that team, you know, like, say which one, about two on his picks, but they can run it, and they have, you know, four really dynamic receivers,

and they only had three points. I mean, man, you know, it's like, how do you figure that out? Because you know, as talented as Clemson is, you can look at the roster always four and five star guys and man, they passed the eyeball test too, but they're playing in the ACC. Who was good in the ACC this year? Nobody. So it's like, you know, what was the measuring stick to buy in? It's just, you know, hats off to them. They, they got a role and I,

it's an impressive operation to spend time around to see how they do it and to see that, you know, the, the kind of kids they have. I mean, this is just like an aside, but you know, Dexter Lawrence who has like top 10 pick potential and six, five, three, 40 and moves ridiculously well. Well, he was going to miss the playoffs because of a failed NCAA drug test. He's sitting in the locker room and he's answering questions and he's like saying all the right things.

That's almost any other school. I couldn't believe it. That keeps not on the trip. That keeps back home stalking and tweeting. Yeah. When I, when I saw that, I went,

Whoa, like that's, that's amazing. And I kind of, you know, I mean, it's, it's super unfortunate, but if you're a part of this and all these guys coming back, like that's the other thing too is in this day and age, you're almost thought that something's wrong with you if you don't leave early. Like what's wrong with you? Why would you give scouts more tape on you to see the things that you can't do? Because that's what seems to happen with so many guys. It feels like for every guy that were like, oh, it's great that that guy came back. There's five that should have left earlier because then they stay longer and then they get downgraded and the drafting doesn't work out for him.

And yet all of these guys that are top pick potential and they're still going to be decided to come back one more. And I don't know if that's because of of Lawrence, because they probably wouldn't have cared about a freshman quarterback coming in. Or maybe it's the feeling of what they had in the semifinal last year and going, OK, we don't want to end this way, get housed, and let's come back and do this. That just doesn't really happen. I think selfish is kind of in, in college sports, and I'm not even saying that's necessarily wrong. It's just rare to see guys be this selfless. Yeah, and you see a lot of these Clemson players.

I mean, Sean Watson was there, Newt Hopkins was there, CJ Spiller, I mean, Taj Boyd. You got all these guys who are coming back around the program. And so, you know, uh, Brandon Streeter, who's our quarterback coach, and he's a recruiting coordinator.

We were talking about, about Trevor Lawrence two days ago. And he said, you know, as I asked him, like people now forget this a little bit, but cause they think, you know,

I remember Kelly Bryant, but there was another kid, uh, Hunter Johnson, who was a five-star recruit. Hunter Johnson now at Northwestern. He's number two, right? Yeah. But he was a year older than Trevor Lawrence. And he kind of saw the reality. He's like, I'm really good.

That kid's ridiculously good. Maybe I need to go. So he's now playing for Pat Fitzgerald. Well, you know, so I asked him, well, how do you sell that kid? And I said, you know,

Trevor Lawrence is a Tennessee kid. And you know, he could have gone anywhere he wanted. And he said, you know, what we do is we throw our culture at them. And he said, whenever you talk to a recruiter who comes here,

they say the two biggest reasons why they come is the culture and Sweeney. And it's, you know, obviously they're, they're, they're tied into each other, but we say, you know what, listen, don't get sucked into the depth chart and try to predict the future. You think you're really good. You know, you're going to be around really good players. Just, you know, bet on yourself, come here and bet on yourself, you know,

and Trevor Lawrence did that, you know, he, he did that. And now people are gushing about what his potential is. They're not even kidding about it. Like two days ago, you know, uh, both Jeff Scott, the office coordinator, Brandon Streeter are like, yeah, we love that. We have him for two more years. They're not even bluffing. They know he's a three and out guy, but that's kind of the vibe around this place. And it's, it's, um, I don't know. In some ways it's pretty refreshing because I don't think there's a lot. I think it's authentic is what I get is what is unique.

Sometimes, you know, sanctimony or anything like that. It's authentic. It was trickling out a little bit last night because I mean, this stuff all does come to an end at some point, but were you hearing from any of your people around college football at the beginning of the end? Cause it's, it's good for business to kind end at some point, but were you hearing from any of your people around college football at the beginning or the end? Because it's good for business to kind of be the first to say, all right, I'm definitively going to say this, but I'm not ready to go there.

The beginning or the end of Nick Saban in Alabama? No, I'm not. Like, I wouldn't say that. I mean, like, he was back next year, and here's what they're going to lose. They're going to lose a bunch of assistant coaches. You know, some guys are going to go with Loxley to Maryland. And, you know, other guys are going to move on.

But, and they're going to lose their D-line. You know what, though? They got a bunch of dudes behind them. I mean, I don't think, all those receivers are young. They'll lose a running back here or there. They'll lose Jonah Williams as their best offensive lineman. But, I mean, they're still, they're, they're still loaded and they're recruiting really,

really well better than they probably did last year. I mean, you know, the joke in coaching circles is they've been signed to number one class because he was really pissed off about that. He didn't sign a top three one last time, you know? So they're not going anywhere. I mean, the people who are like, that's wishful thinking for the people trying to write them off. Or that's, you know, just talking head stuff. Can I ask you one more question about Kingsbury? How is it that he goes to USC?

Where if I knew in October, even with a bad record at Tech, that NFL coaches would be interested, excuse me, NFL owners would be interested, because that's what's happening now in this league. Like, why would he go to USC if he had any interest in the NFL? Like, why would he have not waited that out? How could he have not seen that?

How could his people close to him not seen that? What happened there? Ryan, I think he knew he had genuine NFL interest from teams coming in. I'm not sure, you know, USC is a private school. So let's say it's, it's Cal or let's say it's Michigan, you know, the local media can get the

contract to see, you know, how much you're paid for how long and what the, what the buyout is in different situations. I don't know what's in that contract, you know? And so I didn't report anything about whether they denied him contact or not. That may be true. I don't know for sure. But I know he was interviewed. I know he's met with the Arizona Cardinals. I know their GM really, really likes him. Multiple sources on this. It was reported on Monday that he was with the Jets meeting with them about their job. I don't know why he figured, you know what, let me take the USC job, and if something else doesn't come through or I don't feel right about it, then I'll move on.

The other question is, maybe he saw at USC where there has been a staggering level of dysfunction for quite a long time that predates Clay Helton. Maybe he saw so much stuff there and go, you know what? I'm not sure this is a great, this is an ideal situation for me, but I, you know, I still think if he knew he had a chance to be a head coach, um, what, what offensive coordinator job are you going to stay at in college football team and be an NFL head coach? You just won't, especially look, he knows how important it is to have a quarterback.

The two places he's talking to both have top 10 picks at quarterback. Those are interesting situations. We'll see how they play out. Thanks as always, man. Great job throughout on everything

you're doing. Hopefully, we can catch up here soon. Sounds good. We missed you in San Jose. we can catch up here soon. All right. Sounds good. We missed you. And we missed you in San Jose. Yeah. It's been weird. It last year,

it didn't, you know, it didn't bother me. It was in the basement of Connecticut. This one, I kind of missed, kind of missed not being there. It was hard.

Cause I mean, I had to play the role of babysitter for Stanford, Steve, and that is a full-time job. I stopped. You can't, no one's better. He babysits himself better than anybody else could, honestly.

So there's nothing I can do. Well, Hank Williams didn't do it, so it was up to me. Thanks, man. Okay, that was Bruce Feldman. We're going to get to Robert Mays on the NFL side of things. Before we do that, I have been a Sonos customer for years, and Sonos Beam is the smart, compact soundbar for your TV and newest addition to the easy-to-use Sonos customer for years and Sonos Beam is the smart compact soundbar for your TV and newest addition to the easy to use Sonos home system.

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for truly immersive surround sound. It's cool because I have it in my bedroom. I have it in my guest bedroom. I have it upstairs in the, let's just say, top floor lounge area. And all on the app, I can plug it all through. If I'm really hyped, just super amped up after a heavy day, a chest and it's Friday and I'll just run it through the whole house, even though I have no friends.

Jumping. And I'm just, you have no idea. I was listening to 24 seven spies the other day on 11. Anyway, go to Sonos.com to learn more and order your beam today. That's Sonos, S-O-N-O-S.com. Joining us now from the ringer, one of our NFL guys, Robert Mays, who's hung out with us a few times in the past. So before we jump ahead to everything and some of the coaching thing,

so I just want to kind of go over the wildcard stuff a little bit here. And the least surprising outcome, or at least the way the game played out charges Ravens I really did think Lamar was going to struggle seeing a team so quickly in that second week their defense is good enough to keep a minute they had the late run there so I don't I don't look at the Lamar like some of the TV shows I saw after the fact being like was it a mistake to remove Flacco and you're like have you watched Flacco last few years like that's yeah like as bad as Lamar was for most of that game and I'm still not quite sure what he is and i feel like there's a portion of the media that wanted to push the idea that like he's the guy and they found their guy i don't know if you have answers there but i if the

question was was it a mistake to move on from flacco the answer definitive no i just you know the chargers have a good defense too and i think they were ready for him this time around yeah i i've said this many times over the last couple of months in regard to Baltimore. I said that if you're not going to be good, if you're not going to be efficient, if you're not going to be what we understand as an NFL offense that works, be weird. The problem with weird is when you see it the second time through, you have a better understanding of how to stop it. And the Chargers had a perfect game plan. I mean, you go back and watch that game. It's amazing how many levels they attacked them on in the right way, putting those seven defenders out there to have the speed and the sideline to sideline flexibility

to slow down Lamar on the perimeter. How often they just penetrated every single defensive alignment based on both alignment, stance, and motion. And we forget that Gus Bradley is a really, really good defensive coordinator, and he just totally figured them out. So that's the issue. I think that that was the best version of Baltimore's offense we could have seen over the last two months. But at the same time, a really good defensive coach is probably going to have an answer to it after seeing it for an entire game. What did you take from Dallas, the offensive line improvement and conversely, what Seattle was trying to do in attacking Dallas's defense? I am curious to see what

Dallas does offensively against New Orleans because I, as much as they seem to have an idea of who they want to be in certain elements of the field and with the offensive line also, I just don't like that team watching them play. I still feel like it's way too much predictable stuff on the outside, a lot of comeback routes, a lot of just asking your guys to win one-on-one without much help with design,

and then leaning on Zeke and really using Dak as a runner in the red zone. All that's, those last two things, that's who you should be. But their passing game to me is still so limited. But I did like what I saw from the offensive line. Tyron Smith looked healthy. Zach Martin's back.

That's who they need to be. They need to dominate up front. They need to give Dak time. Because if you don't give him time, the rest of that off at the passing game by design and construction is not going to win against decent NFL defenses. So the offense is frustrating to me, but I understand why it works for them on the Seattle side of it. It's beyond frustrating. It's unacceptable. Every single element of who that team is and every single kind of prong of

their approach does not make sense in 2018 when Russell Wilson is your quarterback and everything Pete Carroll said this week about oh it's unfair and you know I thought he did a great job and everything else leads me to believe that we're going to see a similar staff and a similar approach from Seattle offensively next year and I just don't understand how that's acceptable. Yeah, that one really surprised me. I mean, that's the only game I got wrong as far as he's an outright winner.

But, and that didn't, I mean, I really felt like kind of any way that this was going to go the first weekend. I think you could make an argument for like, that's why the weekend was good.

I mean, that's why I was like, man, this whole entire wildcard weekend, like I'm really excited about this there aren't you know there isn't that one automatic dud where you're like maybe I'll go to the gym or outside during that game and we know he wouldn't we would sit in and watch it no matter what the Philly game was the best game

it was this spot maybe to you it was heartbreaking to me I forgot how are you how are you doing with all that I forgot you were a Bears fan. I'm okay. It's the most frustrating part of it. It's not necessarily the way in which they lost.

It's knowing that maybe this will be the best chance that they have based on that defense and everything else. There was a report that just came out that Fangio is the favorite to get the Broncos head coaching job. I mean, you know this. It's fleeting. When you're built this way and you don't have that just

roll through everything, no matter what offense and offensive staff, there's no telling what's going to happen in the future. And that's the most frustrating part of it is that who knows if this defense will ever be transcendent again, if it'll ever be this dominant again. Who knows if Trubisky will ever be transcendent again, if it'll ever be this dominant again. Who knows if Trubisky will ever be good enough

to make up for whatever fall-off-the-defense experience is. And when you have a season where you have a real shot and you don't make the most of it, it's heartbreaking. And that's still kind of where I'm sitting. I'll get over it, but it's been a frustrating couple days. Okay, did you think, after allowing only 10 points, 240 yards, foals and the Eagles take over 60 yards to go.

Do you think the bears are making a stop there? Or at that point, were you scared of falls? I thought the bear, those two things aren't mutually exclusive to me. I thought the bears were making a stop and I'm afraid of that offense period because it's, it's not just falls like the foals magic stuff.

I understand it. He's played very well. The reason the Eagles are scary to me is because of the infrastructure that has allowed them to succeed with Foles over the last two seasons. They do an incredible job of setting their receivers up in high leverage situations. And now they have so many guys that play well in those situations. Jeffrey, Golden Tate, Zach Ertz. And they have a coaching staff and a head coach and play caller, especially, who understands how to make that work. And there are 46% on third down against the best defense in football on the road.

That stuff matters. So I thought the Bears were going to get a stop. But I was terrified coming into the game of Doug Peterson and everything else that that team has to offer. And I was terrified of it in that moment. All right. So there you go. That makes, that makes sense.

I, I did think the, the athletes split on how athletes are. I can't believe anybody would boo somebody. Like it's sometimes I think everybody kind of gets it. And then there are moments where I go, fans and athletes see things completely different ways. And I understand selfishly why the athlete feels one way and why the fan feels another. I'm not saying booing is cool. And I'm not saying,

like, you know, there's not an emotional party, like where Parkey hits the first one. And then it sounded like it was tipped. I mean, when you would... I'll just admit, I texted Chris Long after the fact. He's like, it was tipped, dude. It was tipped. So back off. I'm like, well, I wasn't booing him.

I don't care if the Bears win. It's such a weird thing to me. And people were saying to me after, well, it was tipped. Does that make you feel any better? And I'm not trying to put this emotional kind of rock and like this Sisyphus-esque life on Cody Parkey. That doesn't, the ability to find a scapegoat is not what I'm after here.

My team is not playing in the divisional round. That's true whether the ball was tipped or whether it was just a kick that went off the upright. So no, it doesn't make me feel better. I'm not trying to destroy this kid who missed a field goal and is going to think about it for the rest of his life. That doesn't make anything about this more palatable. I just, that line of thinking is so strange to me. Yeah. All right. Well, okay. So the last game that we hadn't done yet, people, I would put Bill O'Brien kind of like in tier two of everybody. There's tier one coaches.

It's almost like the Jim Tomsula legend where everybody's just sort of on the same page of where we're at with him. But I'm consistently surprised because I feel like the Texans have outperformed their quarterbacks in past Bill O'Brien years. And now they finally have one. And they got the culture of the better team. I thought Deshaun was actually pretty bad in that game. But people are very, people are more anti-Bill O'Brien than they are Deshaun Watson, for sure. No doubt on that one. Yeah, it's interesting to me.

I think I wrote about the Texans a little bit yesterday and I didn't touch on the O'Brien stuff because I'd already written like a thousand words and I wasn't trying to write 2, 2000 words about the Texans offseason. But I think that I'm with Deshaun did not play well. They really it's a weird thing because I think Deshaun Deshaun Watson's a good quarterback, but they really just tried to make him play a certain type of quarterback that he wasn't able to in that game. It's like just hit zone beating throws, just take what's there. And that's not who the Texans have been offensively.

They don't have this, I don't know, quietly efficient passing offense. That's never who they are. And I think that's part of Deshaun's style, but I also think it's part of their structure offensively. And that's why I feel like even though they've been successful, I would really examine your play calling situation and what your offensive infrastructure is.

Do you want to go out and get somebody that you feel like can give Deshaun some easier throws, not just by virtue of talent, because their receiving core in general needs some upgrades, but just by virtue of design and style. And I think that Bill O'Brien should consider just giving that up to somebody else because watching that team,

the degree of difficulty for them offensively is just too high. And I think you need some kind of drastic upgrades and changes in order to change that. Okay, let's go to the picks for the divisional weekend. You ready? I'm ready. All right.

Colts at Chiefs. I'm picking the Chiefs. I just think that for as fun as the Colts have been, and for as much as I think they can move the ball against that Kansas City defense, which still wasn't very good, I think Mahomes is just going to kind of slice and dice that Indy zone defense.

I mean, I think he's averaged a little bit less than eight yards per attempt against zone this year. He has 14 touchdowns and zero interceptions. Evan Silva tweeted that out today. And it kind of compresses what the Chiefs defense offense can be. The big plays might not necessarily be there, but they're still able to subsist. might not necessarily be there, but they're still able to subsist. And I just feel like they're going to be able to,

in a precise way, kind of surgically attack Indy in a way that the Texans weren't. So as much as I think that the Colts are gonna be able to move the ball, I don't think they're gonna be able to stop Kansas city. I just can't imagine Kansas city is going to lose the flight to think about this year and going, Oh yeah, they didn't win. They lost again at home the chiefs and despite

having mahomes and everything and yeah the defense stinks and the colts defense is physical and they're a physical team on on both sides of the ball but yeah i can't i can't imagine coming into work on monday going so mahomes lost at home in their first playoff game like no way come on so that's there's not really a ton of insight in there i'm not giving you all this matchup stuff i work on Monday going, so Mahomes lost at home in their first playoff game? Like, no way. Come on. So there's not really a ton of insight in there. I'm not giving you all this matchup stuff. I just can't fathom if that's going to happen to the Chiefs again, even though it happens to them at home all the time. I'm the same way. And I think that we've become so enamored with the Colts. And in my opinion, it's because we're so excited about what they're going to be. The Colts weren't supposed to be this this year.

This was supposed to be a rebuilding season. And for as much as you liked Frank Reich or the prospect of Andrew Luck coming back healthy or Chris Ballard or whatever, it was supposed to be 2019 and beyond. And I just think we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves. That team is going to be a contender for the next five to seven seasons, probably. But right now, it's a little much for the next five to seven seasons probably but right now it's a little

much for me okay dallas rams i feel like this has all the makings of everyone loving dallas now with a good win it gets a good team at home in seattle dac is seriously a week-to-week stock with the way he gets talked about nationally and because the rams finished as poorly as they did by their standards um not that you know they lost the last month of the season. They still won their last two games. But again, it was at the Cardinals against 49ers. I feel like everybody's sort of off the Rams now, even though they're still the two seed.

So if we're doing like individual matchups here, one of the reasons that I'm a little bit concerned about the Rams is that we saw what Dallas just did against Seattle. And Seattle is kind of like a Stone Age version of what the Rams is that we saw what Dallas just did against Seattle. And Seattle is kind of like a Stone Age version of what the Rams want to be. They want to run the ball every once in a while and use play action more than they run the ball, which is definitely the proportions you should be using in 2018. But Dallas has been so good at stopping the run. And they have so much athleticism

in the middle of the field. Part of me thinks that we might see a world where the Rams are in third and seven a lot. And that's a place the Rams just don't want to be because they're in shotgun more when they're doing that. The play action game is not an element of their offense when they're doing that. And they become a little bit more predictable. And that's when we've seen them fail. And it's possible that they're getting 18-yard play action throws on first down, and this is a moot point,

but there is a world based on this Dallas offense and how it's constructed that I think the Rams can kind of have some tough sledding. I'm constantly, I guess, just disappointed in the Rams defense. And when I had Booger McFarlane on who had watched all the tape, and he goes, all those dudes up front, all they want to do is get to the quarterback. And that's actually a bad matchup.

That's a bad fit against Dallas. And we've seen that time and time again. I mean, from any of the metrics you want to look at, you just go, how do they have all these names? And they know they went on the spree because they still have the rookie quarterback contract with Goff. But I don't know. They're just not as good defensively as you think they should be. So I'm going to go ahead and still pick the Rams.

So I'm going chalk in both the NFC games, which leads me to my first upset in that because I have the Chargers in the Super Bowl, clearly I have to pick them against New England. I know everybody understands all the going against New England thing, but it's just true. This is one of the worst New England teams that they have had.

I'm not including 2008's team that still won 11 games, but the schedule wasn't very good. I think it's been a long time since we've seen this pedestrian in a New England team, even though there's still a two seed with the bye. You picked the Chargers to go to the Super Bowl?

Yeah, I was trying to do something different. No, I did too. Oh, really? This is probably the first time I've ever discussed this with someone who did the same thing. Uh-oh. Yeah. Look, I think their defense,

I mean, with all the different things we can talk about with them, and I just sort of had this idea of just rivers going up against breeze and, you know, the storyline. I mean, some of the stuff and the reasoning that I had for the playoffs this year was kind of stupid for me, but yeah, I have the Chargers. I have the

Chargers going to New England and winning and I have them going to the Super Bowl. So there you go. I picked it before the season and you had to stick with it. I'm not backing off of it. I just think especially in this game and Baltimore again, it was so wonky. Their offense was so wonky. The defense is so good that I could have seen the Chargers losing, even though I picked them to win.

Against New England, I just think they're a better team. I just think top to bottom, roster talent-wise, that team is better than the Patriots. And maybe that'll come back to bite me, but I don't understand where the Patriots' advantages are. And if that's the case, if you can't build a reason why the Patriots are going to win this game outside of they're the Patriots and Bill Belichick and it's at home and everything else, I'm picking the Chargers.

I mean, that's how I've thought about it since that matchup kind of materialized and I haven't backed off it. Yeah, that's pretty much it. That's what I'm going with. Okay, and then the last game. I don't think New Orleans is losing at all. I don't think so either.

But at this point, you laughing is exactly right. Because I just don't know. The Saints destroyed the Eagles like a month ago. Like six weeks ago. I can't remember when that game happened. It was the day I covered Bears-Vikings. It was 48-7. So I think that was like week 11. Yeah, it's not long ago enough. month ago like six weeks ago I can't remember when that game happened it was the day I covered Bears 48 to 7 so I think that was like week 11 yeah

it's not long ago enough for me to discount it and the idea that there's this Nick Foles narrative is Nick Foles they had 10 points against the Bears I don't know I don't know it's I'm definitely picking the Saints but there's this voice in the back of my head and there's just these images running through my mind of what kind of look at some of this coaching stuff, right?

So there's a lot of people that are frustrated with Kingsbury even being a candidate. And I'm talking about other people in the media. And I've seen some stuff that's posted there. And I go, oh, so you mean you're only pointing out all the stuff that he did bad and that he didn't actually do the thing that's so predictable. I knew in October that if he got fired out of Lubbock that NFL teams were going to be interested. They weren't going to look at his Big 12 record. They weren't going to look at the fact that it was pretty much underwhelming. They were going to go, this guy has worked with this new breed of quarterback,

even if he moved on from Baker, former Holmes, and was with Manziel, and has done all these incredible things. There's a couple other pro quarterbacks he's worked with before. I've talked to enough college staffs over the years that are like, man, that dude is good. He's got a way about him. And yeah, it didn't work out as a head coach in Lubbock in the Big 12. So why would he have ever agreed to become the OC at USC? And the story today is that USC was in fact going to block him.

And then they changed their mind, but they tried to say that it was something else, that whether it's Arizona or the Jets, I don't understand how Kingsbury would have put himself in a situation. If you wanted to be in the NFL and be a head coach, which I'm sure any coach would rather do than be a coordinator anywhere, then why would you have even signed on to the USC thing, not realizing they initially weren't going to give you permission? Then they gave in. Why would you have put yourself in a spot that would have limited your options? Why don't you just wait the whole thing out? The whole thing is very surprising to me. It's almost as if Kingsbury didn't realize he'd be as in demand as maybe people from outside of his party did. That's kind of my thought too, is maybe he just didn't believe that all of the

noise about him being this attractive was real. And I understand why it is. And maybe, I don't know, the guy just got fired from Texas Tech. He was like, how could I possibly be an NFL head coach? I guess that's human nature. But everything we've seen with what NFL teams want and where this is all going makes him an attractive candidate, right or wrong. So I'm with you. I just think you wait this whole thing out, see what happens on the NFL side and the college side. It's not as if he wasn't going to get a job. Somebody was going to hire Cliff Kingsbury to call plays, whether it be in college or the NFL. So taking the first job that came available and limiting yourself from the entire pool is bizarre to me. Get the NFL in that the owners are watching all the stuff that's happening. And just like all the other people that love this league, we're all sitting around watching that Rams and Chiefs game.

And that just means a bunch of owners are sitting around watching it going, you know what, I've got to get one of these guys. I mean, Kevin Clark's been making these jokes on his Twitter feed all week that are really funny. Like candidate number one, well, I spent the last decade building a good defense. Okay, candidate number two, I had a Bud Light line with Sean McVay at the Combine. I mean, it was a great line. It was really funny. But there's some truth to it, and it happens.

Oh, there's tons of truth to it. Right. Yeah, I shouldn't say there's some. This is absolutely what it is. So, you know, there are going to be some guys, like the Matt LaFleur thing, I know it's really easy to make Titans jokes and laugh and laugh, and I think that's what everybody's trying to do. But, I mean, now this is why in basketball,

why the guy that's at like Wisconsin Green Bay or whatever, like whoever has a run and gets to the sweet 16 and the fan base for that college program. So like you're a fan of a power five conference, you know, for college basketball. Let's just, I'll just randomly make something up. Like say you were the, you're an Indiana Hoosiers fan. Okay. And you get rid of your coach. And then all of a sudden it's like, Hey, we got that guy that got to the sweet 16 with a mid-major. And you're like, that's

awesome. Like, could you name him four days ago? Nope. But man, what a run. And now we're in the sweet 16 and they get destroyed by a big boy. Yeah. But man, what a run. What a Cinderella story. That's why these boosters and ADs, they hire these guys because even if the Packers say, you know what we like, we love LeFleur in the meetings. We're not just looking at the Titans offensive stats, believe it or not, but yet hiring somebody like that and them coming off a year with the Titans where, look, I couldn't stand watching them. I don't think Mariota is the guy at all, but if they like him, maybe they're stupid, but I don't think it's as easy as all the layup jokes about him just because the Titans weren't very good. I totally agree. I think you look at his background,

you look at the offenses he's run, you look at just how many different great minds he's come in contact with, what he can probably bring to a team with a real quarterback. Mariota's hurt for the entire season. Their offensive line wasn't as good as they thought it was going to be coming into the year because of injuries. I'm not putting the Titans' offensive performance in 2018 at the feet of Matt LaFleur.

And the Kingsbury thing to me, there are a few different ways that I think about it. One, college football is so... Your success as a head coach in college football is so dependent on the talent that you're bringing in. And if you don't have the best players, you're probably not going to have the best team. In pro football, you don't have to worry about that.

There's no recruiting. There's no need to be a head coach that assembles the talent on your roster. It's just putting your guys in the best position to win. And everything we've seen about the head coach hiring process over this entire offseason and even last offseason, it's all about building up your quarterback. It's all that matters. We think about Matt Nagy. You think about the fact that Bruce Arians just got hired in Tampa

and his offense works perfectly with a quarterback like Jameis. And it's kind of the last stand LeFleur and his connection to McVay, and the reason McVay is so attractive is because he resurrected Goff. All that matters is making sure your quarterback is the best version of himself possible, and you figure the rest of the stuff out later. And that's why I understand why the Kingsbury thing happened. I feel like it could be a disaster. He could win a Super Bowl in three years. He could get fired in a year. And that sort of risk is something I think you're going to see a lot more from in the NFL because people understand how much scheme is going to drive their success.

Give me something else, a coaching tidbit here as we're trying to figure out everything that's going to go down that you think is really important to bring up. I think the Kitchens thing is also in that realm. If they hire Freddie Kitchens in Cleveland, it's based in the same kind of ethos is that we saw what he was with Baker Mayfield, and we want to make sure that continues. The other side of it, though, and I think it's been brought up over the last 24 hours about McVay and how it's not just about play calling. And I think it's the thing about Sean that's lost the most. When I talk to people that play for Sean McVay, and I've talked about it a lot, I wrote about it earlier this year, drawing lines on paper and kind of queuing up

these really creative, interesting play calls is one part of it. That's not the most important part of it, though. Sean McVay has an unbelievable ability to listen to every single voice in the room about what is best for how their offense can work. Every player can have an audience with McVay whenever he wants because he wants to kind of tune this thing in the correct manner. And we've seen these geniuses

that are so obstinate about their own genius and about their own approach that they don't want to listen to anyone else. It's not about being this wunderkind offensive mind. It's about understanding all of the information possible to create the best outcome. And I don't know if Cliff Kingsbury is that. I don't know if Matt LaFleur is that. But that is the element of these coaching hires that is going to be missed when people are seeking out the next Sean McVay. It reminds me a lot of the Ivy League revolution

in front offices in baseball, where I remember the first job I wanted, I don't know how many I've mentioned before in podcasts, but I wanted to work in a front office. And so I got a job with a minor league baseball team and I did sales and stuff. But I said, you know, the only reason I took this job is because I actually want to do something on the baseball side. And I was with like a bunch of old scouts and they were thrown and chewing tobacco. And they're like, well, did you go to an Ivy league school? And I was like, no,

I went to Vermont. It's called the public Ivy though. Um, which I think is what everybody calls their sort of good school. That isn't Ivy league school. Cause they heard it. I went to an sec school. So I'm not saying that. Which way, where'd you go?

I went to Mizzou. Oh, you went to sec school. That's a Midwest, Midwest Ivy. Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

We'll go with that. Although I, Wyatt from Ozarks got in there. His testing might've been good, but I can't imagine yet. I don't know. I don't know what Wyatt's grades were. I don't know if you're watching Ozark.

So nevermind. Did he lie about that though? I thought he didn't get in. Did he not get in at the end of season two? I forget. I don't know. I haven't seen the end of season two. Maybe I should watch the rest of it.

Maybe we should. Is Wyatt the guy that, is Wyatt the guy that tossed the girl off the boat? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. I thought he was lying about it.

I have to watch the rest of this show. Yeah. Actually, that could have been something. Okay, all right. I thought he was lying about it. I have to watch the rest of this show. Yeah, actually, that could have been something. There was so many other storylines going on that maybe his storyline wasn't the most important. So anyway, back to the original reason, is I started putting together all these charts. I would put together these packets for the manager, the pitching coach, and the hitting coach.

And that's why I always thought what was really funny that was happening, especially in the postseason this year, was that it was the end of the world if you had your pitcher go through a lineup a third time. Like you could not do it anymore. And it was like this new thing. And I feel like in 2002, that was the first thing I looked at. I would look at third time through the lineup and then highlight if there was a massive jump off or not. And the thing is, is like almost every pitcher was terrible against the lineup the third time

he went through it. And then you would look for like real, like real guys that regressed. Okay. So the whole long winded point of this whole thing, which I've already sort of screwed up already is that it wasn't who you were. It was just,

wait a minute, went to Yale and you wear khakis. They're pleaded chinos. Okay. Done. You're in charge of scouting. Because it was just how, you know, the owners are going, how do I find the next Theo? How do I find the next Paul DePodesta? I mean, there was all these different things. So you could argue it's worked, but I'm sure we could go through it. And there were a handful of those hires that were

disasters just because you were trying to fit the mold of what somebody else was and you didn't even really know the person so yeah a couple of these coaches are gonna suck and everybody's gonna make fun of the owners for bringing in their guy but i totally get what all of these guys are trying to do so i guess i'm avoiding the layup jokes about the next hot guy that's going to be a head coach in the nfl that's my whole point i mean the kingsbury to be a head coach in the NFL. That's my whole point. I mean, the Kingsbury to the Jets thing makes sense to me because it's the idea of really building up your young quarterback. And I think that's what the Cardinals were thinking in hiring him. It was, we need a guy to make the most out of Josh Rosen that we possibly can, independent

of any other circumstance. And it's the reason that Sean McVay has been so lauded. And I thought two months ago that what McVay had done would influence the NFL more than anything else that's happened over the last five years. And I'm not sure how you can look at Matt LaFleur and Cliff Kingsbury and everything else and every coach with this incredible hair and perfectly trimmed beard that came from a system that McVay knows being attractive and not say that what McVay has done has influenced the league as much as anything else. Thanks a lot, man,

for your time. And I appreciate what's the next piece you have coming out on ringer.com for this week. I'm writing about the coaches for tomorrow. I was writing about it before the Kingsbury higher rate even happened. So again, talking a lot of the, a lot of the stuff we did and Kingsbury, Matt LaFleur, Kitchens, Bruce Arians.

I just think that these choices and the pool of candidates has been fascinating. And I think it speaks to a lot about everything NFL teams want. Thanks, bud. Yeah, thank you. For those asking, we're going to retire Chris Fowler Trivia.

We're just, it's over. I like to end things a little too soon some would say i ended it too late i think most people liked it and the people that didn't you know you reached out to but i would say more people got it than didn't i could just keep it going on and on and on but i don't know that i really want to do that i just want to remind you though that the sonos Read that we did a little bit earlier, that's real stuff right there. The Beam, it's new and it's awesome. I had the sound bar under the TV. Now I got this.

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your beam today hey that'll do it for us and we'll I don't know I guess the college stuff is over but we're gonna keep rolling here through the playoffs so we'll keep it moving again thank you for listening and subscribing to Dual Threat on the Ring. you