The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Colin Cowherd | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: February 18, 2020

Russillo is joined by Colin Cowherd of Fox Sports to discuss becoming neighbors, working at ESPN and Fox, doing solo radio, handling tips from sports organizations, politics, fantasy radio cohosts, and MUCH more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's episode of the ryan russo show on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by state farm just like basketball the game of life is unpredictable talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected, unexpected like a really exciting end to an NBA All-Star game. I had been out on the All-Star game probably a decade plus, unwatchable, not mad about it though. I accepted for what it was, but last year I had to watch it because Bill was like, hey, let's do an All-Star game pod.

I was like, awesome. No. And then this year I went to Chicago, had a great time. I had a great time watching something unpredictable from a bunch of NBA stars, maybe the 10 best players in the world, closing that game out. Luke is better than Chris Paul right now, but didn't it feel like Chris Paul still was one of the best 10 players? You're like, damn it, Ryan, you're just right about this Chris Paul thing. And there's nothing we can do about it. Get a teammate like Chris Paul who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today. I didn't even do the Chris Paul State Farm tie-in.

I didn't even do that. I didn't even do it on purpose. Although Oscar, who plays a State Farm agent, he was maybe just as rough as Pam as an office character. I'm workshopping some stuff right now, but there's really nothing better than the smart guy. That's probably not fulfilling his career goals and works in your office or your warehouse or wherever. And he's just really, really smart, well-read and he corrects you all the time. And you're like, hey, big brain, maybe you'd be somewhere else other than Dunder Mifflin. Okay. Today's guest, we go 90 minutes deep with Colin Cowherd from Fox Sports, FS1. He is, I believe, as good as anyone I've ever heard do solo radio. Solo radio is the hardest.

We're going to talk about all that stuff, whether or not he feels like he's going to be a jerk knowing going into the opinion. We even dip our toe into politics, which I can't believe we did. Have an open mind. You won't, some of you. And that's what we're going to do. So here is Colin Cowherd. Okay, we had talked about doing this for a while. And here we are at my estate here. Your secludedherd. Okay. We had talked about doing this for a while. And, uh, and here we are at my, my estate here.

Your secluded grotto. Yeah. We both live here. It was funny because, you know, running into you the other day, just walking around here, like it's such a small little town. And yet here we are, we're neighbors. We hang, we hang, we see each other more now than we did when we were both in West Hartford. Yeah.

I just, a buddy of mine came over for dinner last night and he's staying in Santa Monica. And I said, Santa Monica is a city. You have hotels. Like Manhattan Beach has about four restaurants I go to and the shade is a hotel, but it's really a beachy town. Like Pismo Beach, Manhattan Beach. Santa Monica's got like, you know, like double trees.

And this is a, basically there's one little area the guys like you and i get a coffee or a cocktail it's a great place to live but it's you know it's not a metropolis no and honestly it's it's a little different now from when i first used to start hanging out here because it's like i'm almost i'm almost not a fit it's the guys like hey why don't you take your act down to hermosa you know it's i'm you know my business, I have to be repetitive. And I think I kind of am a repetitive thinker. So I'm comfortable with oatmeal for breakfast, workout.

I have the same life. Cocktail at 515, I'm pretty boring. Kirsten Thompson once told me, she goes, I like Manhattan Beach, but I felt a sense of sameness. I feel security in that. You know, I like marriage. I like going home. But I could see if I was young, attractive, single guy, you'd be like, I've been to this bar before. This is Groundhog Day.

Yeah, but see, I needed, I needed routine. And honestly, my routine has never been more different. Like my routine, like we, when we were in Connecticut, like how long were you in your slot? 11 years? Yeah. 11 years. I was there almost 10 years. Yeah. And that was actually driving me crazy. I go, when I first started up that Monday through Friday thing, I had been in this kind of three-year run of, of never having any routine and liking not having routine. And then I had so much routine and being in Connecticut and I was never anti-Connecticut the way I know a lot of, you were probably more, I remember the first time you did the airport rant. I was like, oh man, he might be onto something.

I never thought about airports until I lived in Connecticut. Never thought about an airport mattered. And I got to Connecticut and there was no flights direct west. It's like buzzkill. Not great. But, you know, I don't, I think people always kind of look like whenever they ask you about it they always want to be like well what's it like now post espn and how do you feel and i don't even know if that's what i want to do for the next hour plus if we hang out here but um i liked it it was 10 years of my life it was a chapter i feel like my 20s i was out of college in vegas that was a real experience i I moved to Vegas and boxing was the biggest thing in the world. 30, I have my kids. I'm growing up. I'm starting to eye doing bigger stuff than local.

40s, ESPN. I'm a bean at Starbucks. 50s, I transitioned to Fox. I'm okay. I think I'm much less selfish now and self-absorbed now as I've aged. I'm more, you know, just a little bit. You hope so, right? I mean more, you know, just hope so. Right. Right. Imagine if it went the other way. Yeah. I hope I'm not judged for a tweet 32 years ago. Um, but I've, I've really, you know, I always say I'm not a victim of my reputation. Like the decisions I made at 27, uh, as stupid as they were, they felt right to me at the time. That's the decision I was capable of making in my life. So, you know, I've done things I regret, but I don't look back at any part of ESPN and think I was treated poorly. You know what? Every contract I signed, I was good for.

I have great relationships. I've met like you, I've met lots of people that have extended relationships in my life. I have no hard feelings with anybody there. None. Yeah. I, I always like, you know, everybody always wants to ask you about the ESPN thing. Like who was the worst?

Who was the worst? And I go, you know, the funny thing is I find, I look back on it and go, there's way more people that I really like. Oh yeah. That I went through it.

Then, you know, it's not like this, this thing where you're surrounded with people that you, you don't like. You had a better run at it there than I did though. They, they liked you a hell of a lot more than they liked me.

Well, I remember entry points, everything. So I came in replacing a wildly popular guy. So they had to invest in me, Tony Kornheiser. You came in, you didn't have this big show where, I mean, they literally, they were billing 12 million. It couldn't fail. So it's like support Colin. And so your entry point in a building matters a lot, right? So when I come to FS1, I'm like, oh, I'm like the Berman of my network.

Skip and I are like, this has got to work. Or the first run of FS1 didn't. This has to work. Or is Rupert going to say, I'm done with it, right? So you only get so many runs at a cable entity and maybe they, you know, so it had to work. And so I always feel like I can remember going to Tampa. So in Vegas, I was the number one guy in Portland.

I was the number one guy. ESPN and Fox. I've gone in as a pretty important position in Tampa. I just went in as a weekend guy. And I can remember, again, no ill will, battling for everything. If free stuff came down the pike, good assignments, travel, you didn't get any of it. It wasn't because they didn't like me.

But it's almost like, Ryan, let's say we were baseball players and you get signed. You're a first round draft pick and you're kind of struggling. I'm a 13th round draft pick. I have a killer spring. They're still calling you up because they got more invested in you. Right. And if I flame out, another team can't wait to see if I can make it work with them because

it was the first rounder. It's perfect. As a 13 rounder, I'm getting, I got to, I i gotta play my way into a september call up i have to get 400 and so i i feel that way you're kind of a baseball player where were you drafted you're just going to get more chance as a first or second round guy and that's why you know whenever we kind of talk about like i think about that lineup with mike and mike you van pelt and i and you're like whoa like looking back on that you know that's that's a pretty incredible lineup yeah and maybe we didn't even realize it at the time. And Mike and Mike was billing. Like, I remember like how much those guys make,

and then you hear about it and it would make the rounds. Cause it's just what happens. We all find out about how much everybody else is making. And there would always be a little bit of animosity when somebody got like a ton of money and I like both those guys. So I want them to hear me out here on this, but it would be like, Oh wait, they're billing 75 million. Like, well, they should probably make more. But then I don't know if it's an ESPN specific thing. I don't know if it's a, I think it's probably more of an industry thing than it is anything specific with ESPN. It would be, Oh yeah, you're billing that much because you're on our air for four hours. And if we put somebody else in there, so I always find like management versus talent.

I'm not quite, because sometimes I can understand where management's coming from being like, we're the ones that gave you the opportunity. But then I do think that there's this tier one, which is not a big group, that it's like, there's guys that are talking now and there's not many that can deliver

no matter where they're at. And they become like, I actually think that person has become even more valuable despite all the competition and how much the industry's changed. Well, yeah. I mean, years ago, Rob, uh, Bob Wright ran NBC and, um, I remember hearing this. They were talking about how the nightly news with Tom Brokaw, uh, they had lost a lot of their audience as cable was becoming more powerful. And Bob Wright's comment was,

can I still sell you as many trucks as Ford or Chevy? If the answer is yes, I'm not trimming my rates. I don't care what my audience has done. My AM radio numbers may slightly erode. 15 years ago, I didn't have 88 million podcast listens a year. Last year, I had 334 million Facebook views. I am way more consumed and monetized today than I've ever been. I mean, when I got in this business, you got in a sheet at the end of this quarter. Here's how many people listen to you on AM. I now have an AM, an FM, an XM Sirius, a podcast, a cable, a YouTube, a Twitter. We monetize all of them. So even though I'm a member

of iHeartRadio and FS1, it's the best I've ever been treated. It's the happiest I've ever been. I kind of look at it as I'm a voice and can my two companies just monetize me as much as they can and then I get a percentage of it. It's not like I'm not part of a team, but really it's can you sell my voice on as many possible platforms as possible. That doesn't mean I don't think of myself as a team member at FS1, but if I got laryngitis, I'm useless, right? Like the voice and how my, it's really more important to me that I make myself available to my audience, my advertisers, my bosses to try new platforms because we know cable has an erosion issue, right? Yeah.

So how do I replace that monetization on what platform? So YouTube, by the way, my company actually, FS1 Fox, makes more per YouTube subscriber than per cable subscriber. That's crazy. So in my world, I'm hoping my YouTube audience explodes as much as my FS1 audience. I would always push back

on the Facebook thing because I always think all their numbers are fake. All their numbers are fake. They're Vladimir's people. No, I mean, it was just insane because like i remember like guys at espn like oh i had two million views of my video and we're like no you didn't two million people logged in um i don't understand any of it right right uh i guess like i was talking to somebody about tv ratings this morning and you know we were talking about like whether or not the nba because it was something Simmons and I had talked about.

All-Star got good numbers. All-Star got good numbers, but if the NBA just said, hey, screw it, let's move our schedule from Christmas until into August. That's what I always thought. Just dominate it. Because you can see everybody's trying to figure out, hey, there's this one land grab left and to see six weeks in July and August and that's why you have these basketball tournaments and everybody's

going like, look, let's get a product out there. But then there's numbers, there's a counter to that that says televisions are actually on during those stretches because a lot of people are traveling. The numbers go all the way down. But like my counter to that would be you could have a housing crisis, but there's still going to be a place that's still most desirable to live in a housing crisis. There still has to be a place that's still the most desirable. So if your overall raw number isn't what you'd expect it to be for six weeks of NBA games, couldn't you still argue that your share is beyond anything because you have zero competition nationally? And that's where I think like some of our numbers, like I remember getting beat over

the head about Van Pelt and I's A&M numbers. And it was really weird because you and I were right in it as it was all changing. Right. And Scott and I had great digital numbers, but nobody knew what the hell was going on. That just comes to, well, affiliates, a lot of times you just need clearance. It's not your fault.

Yeah. And so you're going, hey, you know, you're not doing great in Portland. And we're like, what? And they were like, how are we doing on the stream? And like,

you're actually the most streamed radio show on the network. Yeah. You're on the afternoon, you trend a little younger. Right. Oh, your podcast is great, but nobody cares.

And you just go, we were caught, you know, you get caught in this middle thing. Well, they care about podcasts now. Yeah, they certainly do now. But i look at all these things is yes it seemed like the rights fees for for live sports are through the roof and you can compare ratings year to year but if everything else is getting crushed because of streaming and all these new like in five years

we're gonna go oh that was what you should have done like we're in this real gray area of trying to navigate through it all yeah i, I mean, I was texting, or not texting, I was emailing with Mark Cuban about three weekends ago. Oh, that was casual. And- Do you see him?

He's got a place out here, huh? I don't, I never have. But he's a guy, if I have a question, you know, I just email Mark. He's got his, it's out there. I Wikipedia'd Mark Cuban's email. That apparently was his thing forever is he just replied to everybody's emails.

And we disagreed on everything. And it was okay, but it was really civil. Let me defend the NBA here. So the NFL has always been Italian food. Everybody kind of likes it. You never met a guy who's like, oh, can't do pizza. I'm so mad it took us 12 minutes

to get to a food analogy, but go ahead. Okay, then the NBA is more Mediterranean or sushi. I love it, but people are, if you don't like fish. Yeah, right. I grew up next to a cannery. You grew up in Maine. Martha's Vineyard. Okay.

So when you grew up, you just ate fish. I went to college. Guys were like, oh, I can't take the smell of it. The NBA is a little like that. It's never going to be everybody's favorite. You like it or you don't. So people that don't like the NBA are going to find ways, confirmation bias. Oh, the ratings are terrible. All you need to know is this. If it was on the market today, everybody would bid on it. It doesn't matter if it's down 22%. Some of it's red herring. Mark

Cuban's like, we're on cable. Well, I'm on cable. I'm up. Tucker Carlson's on cable. Monday Night Football's exclusively on cable. They're up. So a little bit of it's a red herring. I do think it hurts that majority of their games are only on cable.

I think it was a strange year for the NBA. Zion got hurt. Durant got hurt. The Warriors dynasty imploded. And Kawhi's a star, but doesn't talk. So a lot of that is, but the second thing to defend the NBA, here's why the numbers to me are down. It's the best NFL season story-wise of my life. The crappy teams were fascinating. Cleveland was fascinating. I mean, I know as a consumer, I would get up, Ryan, I wanted to watch Browns games. Forget Mahomes, who was great. Lamar. The NBA got hurt because October, November, December, January, the NFL just had better

stories. And you can't keep watching games all weekend long and then turn to your wife, you watch Thursday and then Sunday and then Monday and go, hey, Tuesday night, baby, I'm going to watch the NBA game. She's like no we're watching netflix okay or we're going out right so when people don't like something it's confirmation bias so the nba the numbers are down they're fine by the way the all-star game's up they will have in my prediction a very nice next three months you know the clippers lakers is going to get a monster number. Milwaukee, Boston, and the East is going to get a very healthy number. If it was up, if it was available on the market, I mean, I'm not going to speak for my bosses at Fox.

If the NBA comes up in four years, we're not going to bid on it? Listen, man, it's a battle for content. I mean, Bill Simmons just sold his company for what? Barstool sold theirs. Those are content grabs. LeBron's not going to sell. Giannis is not. The Celtics, Lakers. I think people, I like the NBA.

I go home now when the football season ends. I watch NBA now probably every night. You watch even more than I do. The league's fine. I also am open to anything except for like there's been a few things because everybody's throwing a million theories out but i was talking to somebody at the league last week and i said you know what i'm gonna do i gotta see like two plus years of a downward trend yes before i'm even convinced that it's actually a real thing

like could it be a blip and those you know people like oh you're just like the nba you're defending no i'm i'm anti coming to a million conclusions when we're not even sure if it's real yet, because just two years ago, what were we hearing about the NFL? That it was over, that the run was too woke, the Kaepernick thing. And OK, you know, people are sick of this thing. And honestly, now we look back like, oh, it's a little blip. And now, you know, concussions, you know, all the social stuff that turns off a lot of people.

I got it. I need more data here. I need more of a long-term trend than the first half of the NBA season before I'm ready to say that this is some kind of damaged product. I'm just not there yet. Maybe it is, but we don't have enough information. Here's another thing. How long have newspapers been eroding? 30 years? New York Times is crushing. Wall Street Journal is crushing. I'm on Bloomberg News every day. Big Bloomberg guy. Yeah. It's like people still read newspapers.

Now, there's been a flight to quality. I mean, Warren Buffett's like, yeah, I made a bad investment. But cable's slowly eroding. Well, I can't give up cable. I like college football. I'm not giving up cable. I want to watch every time Oklahoma, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, USC, Oregon plays. I can't give up cable. I like college football. I'm not giving up cable. I want to watch every time Oklahoma, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, USC, Oregon plays. I got to watch the games. So you can have eroding.

Let's say the NBA is slightly eroding. Is it still not fun to watch? Is it going away? The arenas are packed. You have teams like Oklahoma City that have lost three stars. Can't get any tickets. They're completely energized. I was in Utah a month ago. I watched Utah

and Portland. Couldn't get a seat. They were seated 25 minutes for the game. The food was great. The energy was great. The game was amazing. The players were incredibly likable. Dame, Gobert, Ingles. I'm sitting there with my daughter and my

stepson and I'm like, how great is this? I mean, it was just an incredible night. So let's say the NBA does a road, 3% a year for the next five years. So what? You're telling me it's not going to work? You'd have to tell me what are they being replaced by, because then that's the whole point.

It's like back to our AM thing. We're like, hey, your AM ratings are down. Okay, but what does that really mean? That doesn't mean people don't listen to you. By the time my run was done at ESPN, no one brought up an AM number in the last like year and a half. No, it doesn't mean-

Because they knew eventually like, oh wait, that's not really what we should be looking at. People are now listening to you on this podcast. My thing is, does my voice matter in sports? I believe it does. To the degree you can sell it. Okay, whether I think- How many guys do you think are at your level in the business?

Oh, in the opinion space? Yeah. It's a short list. Who do you even consider? You know, I don't. This sounds so jerky. No, I want you to be as arrogant as possible. No, no.

Okay. I would say- You're not telling me to get you a pen, I've noticed. I have reached a point where I really believe this and I think you'll reach a point this with your writing because you're now you're embarking on this career now and you're being paid a lot of money to write yeah at first

when you get into broadcasting or writing you're like I'm going to catch that guy and all of a sudden what happens when you're near the front of the marathon? It's not about catching anybody. It's about, oh, I ran the last marathon in 208. I got to go 204. All I care about is that morning meeting. Are we, I can tell if my show is finally tuned. So as you write, there are probably a couple of guys out there. You're like, I'm better than him. And about three years, you're going to write and you're like, you know what, man? I am way better than me.

Like that's what I think about in the morning isn't catching anybody. I made it. If I could retire tomorrow, I got way farther than I thought. Yeah, the writing thing, I would push back on that and that I haven't read a ton of people where I'm like, oh, I'm way better than this guy. I mean, there's times I've read something where I go, this isn't good. And then your first thought is like, well, I guess I can do this. But then again, like I wouldn't get into broadcasting and see the one terrible person and go, I'm better than him. I'm going to go crush it. But you've developed a style as a broadcaster now. Right. And that's what I think was different. Cause like I, whenever I'm

asked about you, because like, are you a lot? Is that like a dad right now? You're at Nick's right now and some guy comes up. My dad used to do this thing with us. He'd be like, Hey, I got a question a lot is that like my dad right now you're at Nick's right now and some guy comes up my dad used to do this thing with us he'd be like

hey I got a question for you Rye like what's up like did anybody ask about me today I think I know

a lot more about sports than you do yeah but I've always said you're better at radio than I am

which is kind of the thing it took me too long to figure it out and so I don't say

the first part is to be like, I'm better than you. I'll listen to you do segments where I go out. This is, this is why this crosses over a little bit. Now, I think in the beginning for me, people were like,

well, what's, what's this guy's deal? Like, well, how does he do this thing? Like he's really into sports. He watches everything.

He takes notes and it's like, Oh wait, he actually talks to a lot of people. Okay. So like the John B line story is a perfect example of this. I'd heard the very, before the season even started, the B line calves disaster. They had like the John Beeline story is a perfect example of this. I'd heard the very, before the season even started, the Beeline Cavs disaster. They had like the quickest a team had ever tuned out on a guy, like hadn't even thrown the ball in the air yet. I wasn't going to say

anything because the way it was relayed to me, you know, I wasn't going to betray somebody that had told me this, even though it was pretty juicy, but it's still like, it's the Cavs now in 2020, who really cares. But I could throughout the year and the way I would do the radio show, when I have information like this stuff all the time, it was like the Romo thing. But I could throughout the year in the way I would do the radio show when I have information like this stuff all the time. It was like the Romo thing. I knew Romo was done. I knew the team that he wanted to go to. I knew that that team was just like, look, we don't think it's going to work with us. And Romo's like, all right, screw it. I guess I'm done. And then I knew about the CBS part. And so a month ahead of time, when it came up as a topic

on a radio show, I could be like, I really think he's done. I really think he's going to be on TV. It'd be the same thing as a beeline thing. We're like, Hey, what's going on with Cleveland? I go, you know, I don't, I don't know if beelines connecting with them without necessarily closing the story. And that's where I think for me, it was a struggle to go. I don't, I don't play. Like, I think sometimes you'll do a segment where you go, you know, pre-show you're like, everybody's going to think I'm such a dick. And I'm going to do it anyway. Well, like today on the show, I do segments where I think, I think my whole. By the way, I don't think you're mean. You've always been incredibly good at not being mean despite being very critical.

Yeah, Bob Costas called me recently. Your cadence is like softer. It's actually a really cool. It's not a trick. I'm like the bed, bath and beyond of sportscasters. You come out of there feeling like I'm a little less alpha, but I'm OK with it. So Bob Costas called recently to push back on something I'd said. And I asked him at one point, I said, was I mean spirited?

He's not like the twins bullpen or something? No, I criticized him wanting to do a kind of a CTE commentary during the Super Bowl. And I said it on the air, I'd said, or on a podcast, I'd said, I don't think you trade. Oh, it's a big deal. Yeah, I said, I don't think it's fair that Bob wouldn't have done that in game seven of the World Series. You don't trade in your power for that moment. That's not fair to a league. The league didn't want it.

The audience didn't want it. The teams didn't want it. And the medical community didn't need it. It would be more like, I just feel like I should do it. Bob's argument to me was in a six hour pregame show, there's five minutes for it, to which that's a very reasonable argument. But when I had him on, I said, did you ever think I was mean spirited or unfair? And it made me feel good when Bob said, he goes, you know, I don't listen to you every day, but when I do. That's always awesome, though, when other guys do that in the business.

Like, hey, don't catch all your stuff. Like, Stephen A. got mad at me about something. He's, I didn't even hear it, but Ryan. I was like, come on, man. Like, listen to it first if you're going to call me. But Bob did say, he goes, when I do, he goes, you always sound like you've done your homework. And so, to me, you know me, I do.

Yeah. Like, I do. You are research remember that promo i love that one that's like 10 years that's a collar was rude to me i said i am research i am research so yeah i mean i think uh first of all i'm at a point where like tomorrow i have dinner with a gm nfl gm the following day i've got a call with an NFL scouting director. So I have such a great team. I've got writers and funny guys and researchers. My job is really to come in in the morning, have made calls. So I think I'm more like you than ever. I really now-

On the information thing, we talk about this all the time now because I think that's the way to kind of separate yourself. But it's like a non-traditional role. Like used to be the radio guy was the dumbest guy. Yeah. The radio guy was the least connected. And the audience responded by not listening to people. But I'm all about sometimes like local guys. I think that's what worked because you felt more like a fan was hosting the show. Right.

While you were in the car. But I felt like because I love the draft. I always want to work in a front office before I never even want to be on the air. Like I didn't grow up going. I desperately wanted to be on the air. Jim Lampley, by the way, wanted to be an executive. He fell into a TV role. Lampley wanted to be an executive. Well, my minor league gig, they were like, we'll put you on the air because your voice is deep. And I was like, is there anything else I can do? And I was excited to do the travel receipts because I thought like, oh, this will be the path to the front office thing,

like doing the travel expense report stuff. I totally get that. I totally get that brain because I've said I couldn't do it at this point. But if you let me be a scouting director for an NFL team at this point, it wouldn't be very lucrative.

But and the travel is daunting. Do you do you think you'd be a good GM? Not today. But if I took this obsession and said, OK, 24 months, then I think it'd be really good. I think your press conferences would be amazing.

I would. I'd be incredible. I think now you'd be a bad GM today. Well, yeah, because I'm not. It's just like when Kobe Bryant segued brilliantly into his post-career, right? I remember reading a quote and Kobe said, I just took my obsession and I moved it over to a documentary. And then I moved it over to a documentary. And then I moved it over to business. And most of what we do in life is transferable,

obviously not musical talent or athletic, but a good lawyer would be a good radio guy would be a good paramedic. You're a guy that's like all in on stuff. You're all in on writing. You're all in on working out. You know, if you you just transfer, most stuff is transferable, not a pianist, not a shooting guard. No, but that's like the CEO approach. I'll read about these different CEOs and be like, well, what does this guy know about pet food? And be like, well, it doesn't matter because he knew how to monetize travel. And you're like, what? And then you're like, no, it's not the product. It's the execution of changing what you guys are doing wrong. And the smart ones come in and be like, all right, what's going on here?

Like, why is this all messed up? So, yeah, I do think, you know, there's certain, like, if I knew, kind of thinking about, like, how I approached it once. Because I was always, as you mentioned, like, the entry point thing. I was always, all right, well, I'm going to prove everybody. Like, I'm going to kick ass. But the thing I did wrong was I put my head down. I didn't talk to anybody.

I didn't build any relationships with the decision makers. I was was like they're just going to see how hard I work and hear about it and they're like no they don't really pay enough attention especially when they're not listening on the drive-in like when I was on with Scott like that's when they were doing stuff and having meetings right you were a drive-in guy you know what I mean Mike and Mike you could tell like it was great because every single boss was listening to them as they were driving in. You know, I always had a trick. This is my manipulative side. So whenever at my former employer, when they would talk to me, my bosses, I wanted them to go West because I knew I would become their morning drive because I knew they drove in listening to the show before me

and went into their meetings at 10. That's when I came on. So anytime I talked in my 10 year stay to ESPN, I'd say, uh, you guys, and I'd almost make them feel guilty. I'd be like, if you don't go Denver West about half a dozen times a year, you're not a real exec. Like you don't count. You're just a regional exec. I think I talked more execs at ESPN, go to LA for the week. Then I knew they listened to me driving in. Otherwise, they didn't hear me. That's the bigger thing, too.

You're on the air, and there's so many of us that are on the air there, and you think everybody's paying attention. I know Eric Shanks listens to me. My boss now is probably... At Fox, right. He's the best judger of honor talent. His background is production.

Eric, our Super Bowl was unbelievable. It was almost a flawless. I mean, we've been in this business forever. It was about as flawless a five-hour broadcast. Buck was great. Aikman, halftime. It was awesome. I'm not disagreeing with you right now.

Because it was one of those moments like two hours in, I'm going, you know what's amazing? It's this. This is awesome. I text Jenks and I'm like like you should be incredibly proud this is a masterpiece eric is he started producing he has more than any boss in my life he has a total understanding he'll come up to me and go i don't like your hair today he'll be i like that rant most of the time your boss said did you stop dying it after the last contract where you're like all right this is enough i don't i told the story. I did it one time because I had six weeks off.

But you were about a free... I thought you were dying it right before free agency. No, no. I came out here... I thought it was like an Alfred Payton for you. Okay. When you move to Manhattan Beach, you go to the beach a lot. Yeah, all the time.

So I had six weeks off. Brought my son out, went to the beach every day. Three weeks in, my hair turns yellow. I'm at the beach all day. Three weeks in, my hair turns yellow. I'm at the beach all day. I get an email, pictures, Friday. My wife's like, you look like Spicoli, like your hair is salted. And so I go to Hush or some place down here

in Manhattan Beach. I'm like, my hair's yellow. She goes, okay, let me just, let me get the yellow. She goes like- She went red. red microphone black. Yeah. And I'm like, not great.

And then over the court, as I'm washing it seven times a day, it becomes microphone Brown. And I'm like, this is worse. So, I mean, what do you do?

It's like, I just laugh at it. I'm like, but it wasn't because I was, because I'm very comfortable with gray hair. I don't care. My dad had it. I don't care. I think gray hair. Look, I'm the last to talk. I mean, what do you do? It's like, I just laugh at it. I'm like, but it wasn't because I was, because I'm very comfortable with gray hair. I don't care. My dad had it. I don't care.

No, I think gray hair, look, I'm the last to talk. I mean, I'm just lucky I have, I'm tall enough and my arms are big. Because if I had no hair, so I don't normally like, but it was always one of those theories people had that you would dyed it. And then once you got the new contract, you're like, I can't do this.

No, God, no. Well, I'm glad we put that one to bed. Let's put it to bed. Okay. I want to get back though to- Now, when do you run spots during this? I'm going to read them all after. It's just you and I hanging out.

People wait to the end to read your spots? That doesn't seem very effective to me. No, no. I'm going to cut them in. I could even do one right now. Let's do one. I'll be like, all right, the biggest feuds Cowherd's had. Coming up next.

But first, I'll just put that in there. That's clever. More with Cowherd here in a second. But first, I want to talk about ZipRecruiter because we know how challenging hiring is. It's hard to find qualified candidates. It takes a long time. Too many applicants.

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Visit ADT.com forward slash game day to learn more. That's ADT.com forward slash game day. I had dinner with Baker Mayfield in Miami. It wasn't something where Baker's like, hey, I want to go to dinner with you. We just happened to be at the same table together. It was a Wheels Up event. Oh, I was at that Wheels Up event.

Not the Friday night one. Oh, no. No, that was the Rayo's dinner. It was incredible. Behind the W and Kenny and Gary and all those guys. Wheels Up, thanks again for having us all out there. The Baker thing, it went well for you on a prediction because you were anti him you were anti the browns you were just beating that i was anti john dorsey yep i said ain't gonna work

you're anti freddie kitchens and i i wasn't anti baker i was this is a reach he's the fourth most talented guy because i didn't think josh rosen could physically, but I said, he's not a number one pick. He's a franchise quarterback. So when you have that where you go, okay, like for right now, I'm right about this. Like I've called it out. And I think sometimes, you know, it's always weird. Like I try not to get, they tell us all the time,

like, hey, don't get, be critical, but don't be personal. Like don't get nasty about it. And some people just get nasty about it and it works for them. I feel like the rules are different all the time. When the Baker thing happens for you that way where you said it would be a disaster, it ends up being a disaster, do you feel like you have to hammer that even more because it felt like you kept going back to that well all season long because it was like a win for you? A lot of it was Baker kept effing up.

He kept talking. I was done with him. And then he calls out the medical staff. And that was the time I was really harsh. I came in the next day. I'm like, you're a dope. Like, that's an easy one. Interceptions. I get, you know, I get, you know, you buy a sports car or an interception or in the I get that stuff.

You called out the medical staff like that's 101 bad locker room vibe. And I think the day after that, I was that stuff. You called out the medical staff. That's 101 bad locker room vibe. And I think the day after that, I was too mean. I came out and I was like, you're a dope. I mean, you're a dope. And I look back and I think, no, he's not a dope. He's a smart kid. He's a good kid. I'm also older.

So I think now what I morph into is this. Westbrook. Three years, I'm like, this is not winning basketball. He unravels every May. This is not me being critical. Mellow. I was always harsh on. So Mellow, I was right. Westbrook. Um, and I think Baker, you know, I, I won those, but my But my feeling is. That's interesting that you say. I don't think. Do you mean I won those? Well, no.

It's like those were the audience rebelled against me. Yeah. And so it's not even against the guy. No, no, no, no, no. And I went and said, no, no, no. I'm not going to fold on this. And I feel like at the end, I was right. I got that one right. I don't need to keep hammering

because the audience does mostly acknowledge. You got it. I mean, I had people to come up to me, all the people from Ohio. They're like, yeah, you got that one right. And so my takeaway is instead of being right, like right now, I could keep doing. I came out two weeks ago and I said,

Stavansky is going to work and Baker's going to be pretty good next year. He doesn't have to face. If you go back and look at Baker's year, he faced, think about these defensive coordinators, Pete Carroll, Wade Phillips, Bill Belichick. It was a gauntlet. And by the way, this was the beginning of the year. And I'm like, next year, if you look at their schedule, he doesn't face all these defensive coordinators. He faces more offensive guys. I think Baker's going to have a nice year. And Stefanski's not a dope. So I don't, I think I'm kind of off it.

Have you had somebody like, Baker went at you, and that's also the thing like you're older. I never retorted when he went after me on the social. Yeah, but even when he came on the show and you went at him for the celebrating by himself. And then I actually, for that specific one, I was like, I don't know. I think you're being a little hard on him, but this is like a bigger thing where as you get older, I've noticed this, like I was sort of young. I was always the young guy.

And then all of a sudden I was like, I'm older than everybody else. You know, like not, not necessarily my industry, but the people I'd be around, I go, how the hell did that happen? Like I was always the youngest and I was pretty young for what I was doing in the beginning at the ESPN thing. And I think you're harsher because you're closer in age to the athletes. And then as you get older and like, I'm at dinner with Baker, I'm like, I think I'm twice his age or I'm 20 years old. And so I go how critical, like how, how would you feel about really beating up? And I haven't done it, but like really beating up on somebody's personality. And as you get older and honestly, as you get older, if you continue to be successful, I think you actually have a softer side to you doing this.

I think I have kids. Yeah. I don't even have kids, but I understand. I remember Van Pelt. I'm like, why is he so soft on these college guys? And then you turn 40 and you go, are you really going to crush an 18-year-old? Yeah. I think Baker's aggressive nature.

Marcus Aurelius, what is your nature? Oh, how about that one? His nature. Boom. Baker's nature is aggressive. He's kind of, you know, superhero chest plate. But if you're him, and, you know, as Dilfer said, he was a fat kid that was short, and we didn't invite you to our QB camp. And Baker's heard that every time, and he hears it in Lubbock.

and we didn't invite you to our QB camp. Right. And Baker's heard that every time and he hears it in Lubbock. I got him a lot more after sitting down with him a little bit where I went, yeah, I can see why this guy is like, F everybody.

Like I can. And if it works, it's like, oh, that's great. He doesn't care about anything. When it doesn't work, it's like, oh. I guess the thing, because I didn't want to spend all this time on it. But if you had times

where somebody's gone at you that you felt uncomfortable, you felt right, you felt wrong. No, I've always had a theory. I have opinions. You're allowed to have opinions on my opinions. I'm not going to have an opinion on your opinion of my opinion. So when Baker took shots at me on social, I never respond. I say what I say. I think you should be able to rip me. I don't need to rip you for ripping me. Like, here's my opinions. Therefore, the world, like LeBron this weekend was asked something about what would you tell young people? And I loved his answer. He was like, steal from me. Use me as inspiration. Copy me. Be better than me. Like, like, use me. And that's

the way I look at my opinions. Here's my opinions. Do with it what you want. Rip me. Like me. Like, like use me. And that's the way I look at my opinions. Here's my opinions. Do with it what you want. Rip me, like me, hate me, block me. I'm not going to explain my opinions. I've given you my opinions. They're there for you to do whatever you want. Bloggers will rip me, you know, critical rip me. People will retweet me. I mean, social media now is all about, here's my quote. I'm hoping you like it, but if you don't media now is all about, here's my quote. I'm hoping you like it. But if you don't block me, all right, I lost a guy. So I don't really worry about how it lands.

Like I research everything. I think about everything, how you perceive it, how it lands for you as you. If you retort to me, I'm not into some tey-ta-tey on the internet. I'm busy. I've moved on, as you know, to the next comment because I got 12 segments to fill. This is Tuesday. Now Wednesday, I've got 12 more nine-minute segments. I don't have time to worry about

how my comment is perceived and lands for everybody else. It definitely messes with some hosts. And I know at times where I have spent a segment talking to one person because I looked at social media during the show. And then I started just doing this thing where the radio thing, I go,

I'm just putting this phone away. But it's weird, like younger guys that I would host with keep that tweet deck open the whole radio show. I do not. This would be like me writing a line in a scene and then sending it to a producer and then asking for feedback. I'd be like, well, what's the next person going to say?

You know, when I pick my phone up, when my social media guy halfway through the show comes to me, Wesley, and he goes, uh, this is hitting. Then I go and retweet it. I don't want to read. I don't mostly for the show that can help too. Cause you're like, all right, let me stay. Let me stay in this. I want to stay present on my prepared show.

I have said this cause I did do solo, but it was infrequent. It was back and forth, which is the worst way to do solo. Like either do it or don't. Right. You are somebody that, and check me if I'm wrong here, but when you come in, you can be inspired by those around you. Like you can come in as a blank canvas and people go, hey, Colin, what about this? What about a little bit of this? And you start, the mind starts moving and you're formulating it.

Right. I would walk in and everybody knew I'd already decided what I was doing on the ride in. Right. And I'd be like, this is what I'm doing. Yeah. And that's what I'm doing. And I definitely think people like working with your style better than mine, but everybody does it differently to be comfortable enough to go, hey, I'm still the one behind the mic

there for three straight hours. Yeah. So I can only do it the way I'm comfortable doing it. I can't sell your take if I'm not into it. And that is so much harder. And some guys, there's one anchor in particular, I'm not going to say his name, at ESPN, who I don't like, who was talking shit about me after I'd said the hardest thing.

And look, I'd anchored a little bit when I was in Boston. I had to write for a deadline. I did play-by-play. I did color, which I wasn't good at it, but it's not hard. Solo radio is so much harder than anything else. It isn't debatable. It isn't debatable. You know, what's happened, Ryan, is I used to be more your style. I am really collaborative now. Now, some of it is because my staff is so strong. So I really trust my staff. So I come in and-

You're more of a system guy now? Yes, I am. I'm really a slot receiver, nine-yard curl. I come in with two things usually to say. Big, strong takes. I've thought about them. I went to bed. Do you do that, though, knowing you're going to carry 20 minutes? Because your first segment's 20, isn't it? No, my first segment's about 12.

12, okay. So now, the things I have to say are not always my lead. I've got two. Like today, I was on the baseball thing. Okay. Isn't it great for baseball to be back in the, in the national. It's great. It took a decade plus spring games. Um, so I've become much more collaborative and I think a lot of it is my staff is so good. So I

come in, I've got two things to say. We kind of sandpaper them. And then I'm like, what we got. And I, my staff just throws me stuff and I'm like, nah, it doesn't interest me. So I have to buy into, not the rant, I have to buy into what they're pitching me. But once they pitch it to me and they sell it to me, everybody at the table sells me something. And I'm like, let's go for it. And I'm pretty good at 10 seconds. And they're going to be okay too with five straight no's. Yeah. And you have to like, the producer side of this, like that's a tough one. Yeah.

No, no. So I tell my producers, I'm like, just pitch me stuff. That's kind of what the word is. And so they just keep pitching me stuff. And I'm like, and you can tell after a while, you're like, that works. That's on my brand. It's fun. You know, it's what we always try to do is have our rant connect to somebody.

Like instead of just saying NBA all-star game was great. No. LeBron decided the game mattered to him. Therefore it mattered to all the stars. So I've tied it to LeBron. So my, my, you'll do that purposely to make sure it's like the old, I remember I ran into, well, I was hanging out with Woj. Yeah. And there was a writer that came over to say hi to us.

Yeah. And I didn't really know him that well. And a lot of people actually don over to say hi to us. Yeah. And I didn't really know him that well. And a lot of people actually don't like this guy that much anymore. That's why I haven't brought up his name. But Woj and I were talking about the guy after he left. Yeah. And Woj said, you know, the thing about him is he goes, he knew when you're in the city,

when you're in a big city, he was right about the quarterback, right about the legendary head coach. Yeah. Right about the big receiver they should bring in. Like always, I know it sounds simple, like, but I remember too, like Scott and I used to do this thing at the beginning, like, let's be different. Let's make sure Gonzaga gets more love. Yeah, don't the big receiver that he should bring in. Like, always, I know it sounds simple, but I remember too, like Scott and I used to do this thing in the beginning, like, let's be different. Let's make sure Gonzaga

gets more love. Yeah, don't be different. And I love Mark Few. Like, don't lead with Gonzaga. No, no, no. And that's why, not to interrupt your LeBron point, but you are very calculated

in making sure, like, how can I turn it back to LeBron? And people can bitch about it, but it's kind of what you're supposed to do. No, you have to. Topic selection is the single most underrated quality.

So I have a big audience and they're loyal. My radio audience, my podcast audience, my streaming audience, every day I know the number. Now, there are tragedies. There are Monday after football, but I know the number. My television audience is not as loyal. Is it because they have a device in their hands? We're accustomed. We've normalized flipping through 30 channels in three minutes, right? In radio, if I'm in the car, I'm going to hang with Ryan. I'm hanging

with Mad Dog. I made a conscious decision in traffic. I know what else is on next to him. But in television, you flip the challenge. You're like, oh, she's good looking. Oh, well, that's fine. There's a million things on. But in radio, my audience the challenge, you're like, ooh, she's good looking. Oh, wow, that's fine. You know, there's a million things on. But in radio, my audience is loyal. They're with me. They're with me for 20 minutes. But in television, they move. I get minute-to-minute cable ratings every day on the previous day. Every minute?

Every minute. You cannot imagine. So my audience, which is loyal, this is 20 years in. I lose 25% of my audience if I pick the wrong topic. Topic selection is hugelate gate for the 20th time and make it interesting and then, you know, have it somehow pivot to something where I'm still doing it, but I'm not doing the same segment over and over again because I had a hard time being repetitive because if I felt like I was checking out, like I look at standup comedians and be like, you guys get to do the same routine for like eight months, a six month play. It's the same thing. I like, I went to a show in Vegas this weekend. The guy was crushed at seven.

I'm like, he's on in another hour. How do you do that? Yeah, but it's the same thing. Imagine what we've had to do is every day, get up and give me three hours. And so if you're repetitive hour one, two, and three, okay. But you know what tomorrow is? It's Tuesday. And then it's Wednesday.

And then it's Thursday. You've been going now for what? Almost 20 years? Yeah. For that three, and it was a four-hour stretch Wednesday, and then it's Thursday. You've been going now for, what, almost 20 years? Yeah. For that three, and it was a four-hour stretch there, the mystery hour. Yeah. So, no, I mean, I just, we try to make. Wait a minute.

Was it, you called it, what did you call it? Mystery hour. You did? Oh, okay. The nation didn't get it. Does Levitard also call his Miami hour? No, local hour. They call it local hour.

So, I had an hour that was only on in LA. Hey, what's the deal with you guys? Are you not cool with Levitard i get along with him fine it's like it's almost like the dan patrick thing i always like both of them and then i left and dan took shots and i'm like we got along i mean we weren't buddies but i always liked dan i didn't i saw him every day when i was doing my show i'd come out get a coffee this is dan patrick yeah i always liked dan if i saw him today i'd buy my beer i always liked dan then i went and they today, I'd buy him a beer. I always liked Dan. Then I went and they took some shots

and I fired back at him. I'm like, same with Dan Levitard. Dan will text me and go, hey, we took a shot at you, but you're okay with that, right? And I'm like, I think I'd be more okay if you didn't have to email me that eight times a year. Because I never talk about you.

That's a fake laugh for me. No, because that last time, now that it's coming back to me, Stu definitely, and I get along with both guys. Yeah, I. No, because that last time, you know, now that it's coming back to me, like Stu definitely, and I get along with both guys. Yeah, I like them. But that last time, like they did that whole production on you. I didn't see it, but I heard about it. Yeah.

Which is, again. It's supposed to be really funny. My favorite on-air answer is back to the causes thing. But I didn't, but I heard it's funny. Why wouldn't you, you wouldn't at least be a little curious to go check it out? No, I don't. Dennis Miller's got a line and I've always believed it. It's the best line ever.

Dennis said, do you want to hear your critics? And he goes, no, if they say I'm great, I'll get lazy. If they say I'm bad, I'll have low self-esteem. I don't read my critics. Now I'm not saying some of it doesn't come to me. Andrew Marshan wrote an article. I'm in it about mad dog. He destroyed a mad dog and he interviewed me and I wanted to read, make sure he got the quote, right. But I think it eats you alive. I mean, you just told me earlier, you're doing the show, you read something and it gets into your head. I really think I'm good at what I, my little space. I don't need your, if you know wine, you're a wine sommelier. Do you need people to say, you know, I don't think he knows his pinos as well. No, that's definitely something

that happens to, and I don't know, you know, what group I'm considered to be in. I know what I think what i think of my abilities but you you just get to a point where and this is the best part about the business like if you can get to it you go hey you know what i'm i'm pretty good at this like i'm good at this and then you relax and then you're better on the air right that's not even radio i'm talking like anchoring big moments where you know if you were younger and you're like all right you're gonna you're gonna host like a toss to a nba playoff game and you're making sure okay what's the order than the a's what are the b's what's that transition what the hell does that mean where's the jib and all this shit and then you do it five years and you go hey you know what i'm gonna be really good because i'm good at this and that's like the best feeling

ever and it takes took me longer um but maybe that's because it mattered but like back to the thing of like yeah sure there can be a comment every now and then you don't really like but i know that everybody that works in the business that does, like, I feel like the people that do it have always thought I was better than the decision makers. And that always made me feel better. But then sometimes I think like I could do more segments where I rip other guys in the media. And sometimes I want to. I feel like it's media incest. I don't think my audience cares about my opinion. Don't you think, though, there'd be way more entertainment if we all just started killing each other?

I don't know. I don't think. I know you're not wanting to do it, and I've decided to. It's not in my nature to. Like, I liked Scott Van Pelt. I like Joe Buck. I like Chris Broussard. I like them all.

I don't want to. Like, I am so happy now. Not to go Tony Robbins or something, right? Do it. Or Joel Oshie. Because this is the truth. Because I know. Because I know there was a stage there in Connecticut where you were, I mean, you were going through a lot of stuff.

And I was over it. And you pulled me aside. And we weren't even that close. And I was like, man, this guy's like searching a little bit. And your career is about to take off. But I knew that, you know, all the other pieces that like, there was just some stuff that was missing for you. And now it's not. Yeah. And so, and it's not just Fox doesn't micromanage me. I don't feel the pressure from the corporate world. My bosses trust me.

They know I work hard. But that's also back to entry points. They had to get you out of the worldwide leader. But to their credit is they have never micromanaged. You know, the first year I knew when I started,

I said, guys, don't look at ratings. It's like I'm the Oprah network. I'm Oprah first year. She has nothing surrounding her. I'm like batting third. I didn't have nobody into me, nobody out of me. Like just give this thing two and a half years, let it bake and it'll work. And the management never questioned it. You know, that's hard for management. Okay. So you're restarting this FS1 thing and that management never, ever questioned it. We had bad days. We had good days. I trailed ESPN 26 to one when I started. I'm now down to two to one in my slot.

Like I may never catch anybody, but the bottom line is I'm doing my best work. I've got my best bosses. Fox is an incredible place to work. It's almost like, um, is there a way to convince the audience in a, in describing why you say that? Ask yourself this. But I'm just saying, people are going to listen to this and go, well, of course you're saying that. They gave you all this money

and they made you the man. Right. Maybe it's specific to you. Here's the best way to say it. Because I hear it from all the people at Fox, so I think it's important. Why don't people leave Fox? A lot of people leave a lot of places we've been.

They don't leave. If given a choice, they don't leave. They may have to be, you know, we don't resign them. Find the list of people that said, I want to leave this place and go elsewhere. And there's reasons to leave. LA is expensive. You know, it's harder to make it work here. It'd be easy to go. I'm going to move to blank, blank, blank, blank network in an easier place to live. Then I'll lose many people. People love it. They're there. It, you know what it is. But I do think that because the number of people at ESPN is so massive, right? Right. So like if there's more turnover because of volume. Yes. I think that is part of it. But I also think Fox has run like a series of silos. Like everything at my former employer, I could feel the Disney umbrella. You could feel the pressure on your shoulders. Like they do Beauty and the Beast.

You know, these guys do The Simpsons. Yeah. Right. So there is a sense of FS1 isn't Fox News, isn't Fox Business, isn't Fox Sports, isn't the Wall Street Journal, isn't the New York Post. You're all in these really cool silos where you're kicking ass, you're working hard, they trust you until they can't. company, and I think this matters, the company is very friendly toward front-facing personalities. It's art. It's not perfect, okay? The more corporate you become, the more pressure you feel from above. This is a company that had a movie division, has a highly controversial political division. They've got cable. They own National Geographic.

So they understand the world we live in where we're creating content, good days, bad days, good rants, bad rants. They don't micromanage. I just feel, and again, maybe it's because I like my bosses and I'm being paid well. Maybe it is that.

I know this. The staff I have now, like we come into work and we're all in a good mood at 6.05 a.m. Not easy. Like we're chopping it up on the bagels, on the coffee, laughing in the morning every day, chopping it up. And when we do our prep and we're done at 8.20, we walk out of that room and it's like, it's fun. Like I'm really proud of our guys and the women in our club. I really am genuinely happy.

That's 20 years in doing the same thing. I don't care if you sell insurance. If you walk out of your meeting and you're happy driving home to work, you got the right job. Like, you did it,

you know, I'm not saying I deserve the credit, but right now in your life, you're a goal setter. That's who you are. You're a jock. You're a goal setter.

And generally, I think people that are, I work out every day, but you're, I would say even more so for you when you set goals and achieve them, like when you're writing, it feels great. You go to bed every night, like 130 page feature, uh, a Friday ago. And I was like, you actually did it. Cause you know, my biggest thing is people that are full of shit, you know? And I knew when I wanted to do the writing thing, I was like, I don't want to be one of those guys that buys the Sid Field books and grabs story and reads it sort of and then opens up your laptop and pretends that you're going to do it because it sounds cool. And then when I left ESPN, I kind of was like, maybe I should have just shut up about that whole part of it and waited to be like oh by the way this is what i was working on but i think i did it subconsciously to put all that pressure on me to make sure i did it and i don't know you know i've a couple people are looking at this thing now that i've done after some of these other things and i have some things

here hopefully that uh be able to announce but you put the work in i liked it like great it's an unbelievable feeling to go hey at 40 you decided to start doing this. And I was like 11 o'clock at night. I'm in my mode here. I'm listening to my Christian Scott. And I was like, you're done. Like you did it. You wrote 130 pages. And that's how I feel. Yeah. You said it. When you're athletic, our life has generally been fairly linear. A couple of jocks over here, just hanging out and do some curls later. But our, your, our life's pretty linear, set goal, work at it, achieve goal, have a beer. Like it's not that complicated. We're not artists, so to speak.

No, no. The radio thing is like survival in a way. Yeah, a little bit. It's getting through the day. I don't know if I even had five segments in all the years of doing it where I went, oh my God, I'm so brilliant. But I do know that you and I are guilty of the, this is kind of getting back to being critical of each other,

where you could do an entire show as being like, this was stupid, this guy shouldn't have said this, this is dumb. Because what I don't like about our business is, and I can still like the guy, but the idea of I've had this opinion and I'm never going to deviate from it. I'm only going to use the evidence that supports my opinion.

And I'm actually going to like get pretty loose with the facts to, can you like to continue to beat you over the head with all these different things? And that's, that's the part of it. When I see guys like that get rewarded, I'm always like, ah,

man, you know, that's the part about the business where I was like, I don't know if I want to do this. Yeah. And I think I see that, but I no longer care. I think there was a part of me that would care. I no longer care.

Like I, I, in fact, the criticism of me, I hear, um, and I don't hear it a lot, but I hear it is, oh, you just flip flop. You know, Whitlock always says they call him Jason flip lock. And my take is I'm a pilot every day. I get into the plane and they say, you've got to, here's the, there's a massive storm. All right, I'm going to turn left and avoid the storm. Every day I get new information. If I have dinner with, you know, Tom Telesco of the Chargers, a couple of times a year I'll have dinner with him. And I have dinner with him and he's all in on a player.

And the next time I talk to him, he's like, we found some medical issues with his ankle. He can't, he can't pivot. Well, then he doesn't like the player. So sports is totally fluid. Like, I don't think this, I mean, aren't you and I making calls to get new information and you get new information and you're like, yeah, I'm not in on that team.

I hear chemistry's not great. Yeah, the cool thing is when you can call me like, look, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to tweet this out five minutes after you get on the phone, but like give me a little and i'll still have gms be like hey beat it if you seek information yeah so to me when people say they flip-flop well that means you're an information gatherer the guys that don't seek information and don't call gms they have the same opinions but i also think you have to surprise the audience which is part part of the, you know, if someone doesn't like you, say, oh, he flip-flops. If they like you, they go, oh, he has the ability to change his mind.

Yeah. I mean, it's the exact same thing. Is that right? Like Whitlock, for all his critics, he's going to surprise you. Oh, he does all the time. You're going to say, okay, what's he going to do here? And you're like, oh, that's what he thinks of this? Like, I didn't see that coming.

And I'll tell some guys every now and then, I go, you know, you can, like, what's he going to do here? And you're like, oh, that's what he thinks of this. Like, I didn't see that coming. And I'll tell some guys every now and then I go, you know, you can, like, and I can be, you know, Ryan's going to think that, you know, everybody's stupid because they did this or whatever. And I know like we've had talks where you go, I don't want to be everybody's stupid guy, but sometimes I can't help myself because I know that I'm the one that stayed up and watched all night. I know I'm the one that is able to talk to somebody about it. Like I can tell immediately when I'm like, you didn't watch. You have no idea what you're talking about. And this isn't about opinion and your interpretation of what's happened.

Like you're just totally off in left field. But my question would be to you. Okay, so you do that. But ultimately, if you deeply care about your content, because that's all that really matters for you, you get paid on your content. if you deeply care about your content, because that's all that really matters for you, you get paid on your content. One of the things I think I've kind of gotten out of is I just, I mean, I guess we all want to be liked,

but I'm really into crafting my show, getting off the air and going to my family. And I'm just done with it. Now, I do like to talk to you. There's a handful of guys that I'm like. I love when you and I just call each other. And I'll be like, hey, I don't know. And you and I, by the way,

almost always complain about the same thing. If you go back to our off-air calls, which are probably once a month, we call each other. Yeah. If you, without making people too privy to our personal stuff, our biggest complaint is the,

I think, social media apparatus being used to be outraged constantly. Like how many times, you and I both are always like, I've called you before and said, am I supposed to be outraged by that? That doesn't seem outrageous to me. The outrage blender of social media is just fatiguing to me. Instead of battling it and complaining, I've just turned it off. Yeah, that my thing will be, it's not like, oh, I disagree with you. I'm not mad. You're mad. It's when I go, you're pandering and you feel like you need to be involved here and you're hoping to get some people to be like, go get them. Awesome. There's a lot of, there's a lot of projecting on the internet. Like, I'm not like, have you said anything interesting or have you

just done the obvious? Hey, I agree with this, this, the plight of this. And now I'm going to make sure everybody knows how cool I am. And you're like, yeah, but you know, this, this really is. And it's one of the first things you ever said is like, be interesting. And it can sound simplistic. It can sound like, oh, you know, it's a little bit more than that. Like, no, no, no. Like, can you find a way to do this stuff that everybody's talking about to be interesting and set yourself apart? Uh, could you, do you need this? Like, I know we can talk about money and Hey, eventually, and I've got a family and I've got all these things. When I had decided to leave the daily radio show,

I'd heard rumble that people were like, dude, he's such a nerd about this. Like he's going to lose his mind. He's not coming in on Monday. And I think people misread me entirely. Now there's been maybe two times. Like I would do daily radio again,

but it would only be if somebody were like, you're exactly who, you know, like we believe in you let's go right I'll never do it if it's kind of like oh hey we've got a slot open and we're good I don't need to I just don't I would I'm not sure would you what if like you've got all your money you've got everything and Monday they're like no I don't want to make it that way. Hey, you just, I went in Powerball. Would you, would you be okay not showing up and doing this anymore?

Could you handle it? Cause I don't, I think you need to talk to people. I like to talk. I think I've just always been a verbal kid. My son's the same way. He's a talker. He's just got,

he's yet in the car with him. He's just got fascinating questions and he wants to know the answers to stuff. And my answer to him is always photosynthesis. I have no idea. He'll ask me questions about stuff like a moon. You got to get him a library card. I just say it's photosynthesis. Jackson, I don't know.

No, I mean, when people say, do you have a number? I don't really. So that probably means psychologically at some point I need this. I don't have a number. I mean, if i powerball i'm still ordered it's fun to talk it's fun to build the i like building the show philip rivers once told me i like preparing for the game more than the game he goes the process of breaking down film and knowing oh this is going to beat new england and this is going to work you can't say that very often yeah no kidding ever um i like the process of building a show. I love

building the show. Sometimes I'm on the show and I'm like, all right, I've done my thing. I hit it today. I'm done. I got about 20 minutes left. I'm done. I think I really worked hard, did it. I like accomplishing stuff. I like cleaning the house. I like, like I want to go work out today. I'm going to do three and a half miles. I know the time I'm going to do it in. What's your time? Uh, I run about an eight minute mile. That's fine. You know, I'm 50, you know, 50, got your old guy. I don't need to run to tear my heart tissues. Okay. I'm good. I'm fine. What is it? What is an eight minute? Was that a seven? It was a six and a half, 6.5. No, when you're on the treadmill, it is, I run a seven point. I go 7.4 at 2% incline for three and a half miles yeah that's pretty good man yeah

so good about that but like you've always i've always told people that you're it's funny everybody's a lot bigger we had a big lineup no kidding i'm taller than people think greeny's taller than people think yeah i got greeny some gear from a from a place you know back then i was like hey do you want let me pick out some stuff here and i was like, what do you got, a medium? He's like, I know, Ryan, I'm a large. I was like, you know what? You are kind of a large. Actually, we have, it's funny, Fox as a group.

Gonzalez is big. Howie's big. Bradshaw. These guys are a different level of big. Bradshaw is a 70-year-old man. I'm telling you. He is, he's not fat. He's just thick. People don't understand this. So Terry Bradshaw, when games, his games were not on television. They weren't on cable access. He was the number one pick. Can you imagine picking a team? The Steelers go,

yeah, this kid named Bradshaw. Oh, he's in the SEC? No. LSU? No. Do you have any tape? None. I mean, it's just insane how good you'd have to be. And there was no media momentum. It's not like today where somebody catches fire and people are like, you know, they move up because of the combine. There's not a combine thing.

There wasn't media momentum. He was just that good. And so when I look at Terry and he's 70 and I walk in on Sundays to see him and his energy. That Sunday thing I've heard is unbelievable being around those guys. True story. So when I first came to Fox, it wasn't on my contract. Eric Shank said, would you be willing to do the Sunday show? Would you want to do it?

And I said, well, who's the host? He said, Carissa. I'm like, you know, I'm like, oh yeah, I'll do it with Carissa. She's fun. So I knew Carissa would make it fun and it wasn't on Carissa. I'm like, you know, I'm like, oh yeah, I'll do it with Carissa. She's fun. So I knew Carissa would make it fun and it wasn't in my contract. I just did it.

And I thought, and then I started doing it. I'm like, this is great. But it's smart and I think it's really, I do think that eventually this is going to happen where more people

are going to do this. Like Stephen A is not a writer. He's an opinion person. Yeah. And ESPN, especially with his new deal, is trying to find ways to put him on different stuff.

Yeah. Fox has done that with you. Yeah. You know, NBC did it with Peter Vesey, but back in the day, Peter Vesey was a writer. especially with his new deal, is trying to find ways to put him on different stuff. Fox has done that with you. NBC did it with Peter Vesey, but back in the day, Peter Vesey was a writer. But I look at this selfishly in that, you know what's funny is you bring on a lot of the ex-athletes, and a lot of them aren't very good,

certainly right away. The writing thing is not, normally it would be, I write to be on TV. And if you didn't write, it's like, why do I care about your opinion? And now it's so different. The rules are wide open that i would i would say one of the things is going to happen in the future is whatever version there is of you and me later on is that they're going to want opinion people on these shows yes because the opinion people stir the

whole thing up and then get the analysts well you know what i mean get them going you can't have like three guys that all play that are maybe a little subdued or two coaches that want a job again right afraid to say anything and a host that doesn't offer any opinion like i do think more shows what you guys do on the earlier fox nfl show there's a model there of like how can we have a major opinion person on this on the show and and and carissa's great and so we started doing the show but you know the ancillary value of it that I never predicted. And this is now the- You're on Fox. Yes. But I get to see Jimmy Johnson off the air. He's the first guy in. Sit down for 15 minutes, ask him five questions. He is a library. Belichick goes down on his boat every summer. Howie Long, Bradshaw. These guys are information people. I have more sourcing through Jimmy

Johnson. I'll go into him and I'll go, coach, explain this to me. And he's like, oh, well, that's the offensive line coach. He's a wackadoo. So this is not going to work. This coaching staff. I mean, he literally has been, I'll go to Jimmy and he'll go, this staff won't work. This staff will, this staff won't. He's always right. Always. He literally has shown me how to build a staff he's like you get a staff you better find an old line coach there's about four good ones in the country and they're all weird he goes offensive line coaches are weird he goes but the he goes you if you get that wrong in

your college program you can't catch up and so and so he talks about different theories on how it works and i just asked jimmy five questions and he just specifically he'll go, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Yes, yes, yes. And it has become, so when I'm on the air, I use all that information. I sometimes I'll credit Jimmy, but mostly I'm protecting Jimmy because Jimmy will say, this guy can't coach. This guy's really good. He's the most underrated guy. Here's what you're looking for in a special teams coach. Jimmy has made me so much better at football. So when I go in there Sunday, I'm around Tony Gonzalez, Vic, Jimmy. I just ask him questions and they've all got fascinating answers. And I don't use, I use this stuff on the air.

I don't have to credit them. They're my friends. I work with them, but I use their stuff throughout the week. And I get, I get two hours of that stuff behind the scenes before I do the show. That's the value to it. It makes my football. It enriches my amplifies my football knowledge. We'll close it out here with Colin.

I'm going to do five questions with him. And then that teases ahead to later this week. We're gonna have Craig Kilborn on in studio steak night butcher box. Let's do it. Steak night is any culinary occasion more delicious. No flaming on is the king of the cuts, but sometimes you miss the marbling of a ribeye. Tell me about it. There's nothing a quick wrap in bacon won't fix.

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your first box. Just go to ButcherBox.com, use the promo code DUEL at checkout. If you like the show, you know you're going to eat meat at some point. Please use ButcherBox. Just try it out. Are you ready for five questions in honor of Kilborn here? You know, he's got a very popular Instagram page. He does. He's actually coming on very soon.

He and I have been talking. His life, I don't know much about him. He is very comfortable in just, he made good money and he's done working? I don't have any answers to any of that um his his mahogany den looks incredible yeah so unless it's like a green screen i don't know i don't know what's going on i'm gonna ask him all of these things yeah he appears to have he's very comfortable in his own skin he he likes his life all i had heard about him is when he he was at Bristol way before he was there before you were. He was way there before I was

and he was gone. But the whole time he was there, guys that I know that knew him were like, all he wanted to do was get out of there.

Yeah. And he's always lived, other than the New York runs, he was always trying to get to California, always trying to get back to California. Yeah.

And I can't wait to talk to him because he's actually my favorite anchor ever back when anchoring was trying to get back to California. Yeah. And I can't wait to talk to him because he's actually my favorite anchor ever. Back when anchoring was like a cool thing to do. Right. And now all the anchors want to do what we do. Yeah. Yeah, no, he, very talented. I remember he was not making much at ESPN

because he used to wear the same jacket. I always remember that. He was just in there. I can't wait to bring this up to him. Yeah. He had a brown, like a Tweety, kind of a brown blue Tweety jacket. You know, they didn't pay him anything. He was probably making 27 grand a year.

He was not making 27. I don't think it was great. Come on, in the 90s? He was one of the better anchors. But you know how... Have you ever talked to him? I can't wait to... No, no, no.

I mean, I would doubt... I don't think he listens to sports radio. Oh, I don't think he's going to listen to this, but I'm definitely going to say in the interview, Colin was targeting you at $27,000 one year in Bristol. But he seemed to, I watched a couple of his YouTubes. He's got a distinctive style. He seems very content in living the good life.

Yeah, it's unbelievable. Like he's totally at ease with just, you know what's funny is they're goofy and it still works. I bet he had good parents. I bet he had really supportive, great parents. I'm going to guess on that. But anybody that's that secure in themselves doesn't need. Maybe I'll have you tape the interview with him.

He's kind of a fascinating guy, right? I find him. I haven't seen him interviewed ever. He did sit down with Eisen. Because like as soon as the Instagram page started popping, people were like, are you guys looking at some of these videos? I know he did an LA Times article that he interviewed himself. I read that. It's funny.

I mean, he's a very clever guy. I honestly think he played this lane. I almost want my opinion guys to be a little arrogant. And he was on air and he had this little flair and he was smooth as could be. I mean, he was as smooth as anybody. I thought his show worked. And think about all the different things that he's done, all the different versions of him.

Like when I go back and look at those late night show clips that he has and or the late, late show, and I go, oh God, that worked. Oh, it's very, and it still holds up. No, it's very specific to Craig. Craig has an identity. Now, again, I'm just ad-libbing this, right? But when I watch him, there's an identity with him.

He had his own sensibility. He played to it. He knew it. And he didn't apologize for it. That's why. Look, I love anybody that goes, you know what? I'm going to do this now. You know who I really like?

And this takes guts. But David Spade went out and said, OK, bashing Trump is too easy. It's just too easy i'm gonna do a show with no trump bashing and if you watch that i watch it digitally every day it's funny i've watched spade show twice and i i couldn't like this isn't even political but i can't fathom being like oh i'm gonna be the next guy that makes like the trump stuff is so easy and you're just gonna keep doing it like honestly these people have have all become the same like i always give colbert the pass because he's a political junkie everybody else

to me is faking it like colbert deeply cares and if i go see a stand-up comedian that comes right out with trump material you're like hey can we get to the stuff about you needing a therapist instead because that's you know colbert does that or mar does does it. That's who they are. That's their nature. Yeah. But most of these guys, do I think Jimmy Fallon wants to ever do politics? No. And you can sense it. It's not authentic to him. Jimmy Kimmel does some, but when Colbert- But Kimmel picks his spots in a good way where he'll be like, all right, you know what? I'm actually going to hammer this right now. And you'll be like, oh, and it makes, like any of

us that have our voice out there, you're hoping every few months you do something that actually resonates. Right. I mean, that's kind of the game now. It's like, do you have this thing

that happens? Yeah. Yeah, I guess. I mean, you know, look, laying the bricks

Monday through Friday are one thing, but every now and then you want to have a moment where if, if no one's saying anything. Do you ever, do you ever do politics

on this thing? How long have we gone? Hour 10. Holy, edit it down to like 50 minutes. Do the best of. No, this is all good. I want to do some politics right here. I was thinking about this.

All right, great. I wasn't expecting this. So I was thinking about this today. So similar, so in the NBA, I was telling my staff this morning, we haven't done it yet. But I said, you know, we always get caught up in the NBA. I was telling my staff this morning, we, we haven't done it yet, but I said, you know,

we always get caught up in the NBA. Uh, what is your strength? And I said, the truth is when you play somebody seven games, it's really about what your weakness, Utah does not have a wing defender to stop Ka, Kawhi or LeBron.

They can't win. They do a lot, right? They actually have some interchangeable wings that, that are giving a little bit, who's their best defensive wing? I don't know if it's O'Neal. I know people laugh about Ingles, but Ingles actually works his ass off out there.

I know you're rolling your eyes at me right now, but you know what I would say to everybody? That's why those guys are really good. I remember one time with Damari Carroll. I was like, oh, that's cool. They can put 20 minutes of him on LeBron. I guess LeBron did. He destroyed everybody's wing defenders so to say that utah is incapable of getting by they're probably just not as good they got to figure out the conley part of this

but that's why kawaii is so good that's why lebron's so good i don't know who has the multitude of wing defenders i think the clippers have it for lebron that's what i think so i think the clippers have it for lebron and lebron's gonna have to actually play one of those guys defensively i would think right to close playoff games those guys defensively, I would think, at least to close playoff games if it ends up being both L.A. teams. But this is how I would segue into politics. So the easier you are to marginalize as a team over seven games, the more I'm going to beat you. It's not about your strengths.

You're in the playoffs. What switch can we get you into at the end of the game? You're right. So it's the same in politics. Bernie's incredibly easy to marginalize because's the same in politics. Bernie's incredibly easy to marginalize because the two words in politics that would be very hard to elect is atheist and socialist. Those are still stigma with those. Nobody cares if Mayor Pete's gay. I mean, most people just don't, you know, reasonable people don't care. That stuff isn't

a stigma unless you're really a social conservative, which i think that's a very small part of america but i was thinking about bernie the other day like trump is crediting him about once a year you know bernie knows what i'm going through he this democratic party is just unethical he's doing it because he's going to be the easiest guy to marginalize in an election like he's a socialist you can just stop talking but it's i mean that's all you have to say like she's an atheist he's a socialist i really think 2016 taught us a really valuable lesson like even as you say like i think conservative social i think that group's bigger than you think it is really yeah i i do i do i i think that it's a bigger group like how much i don't i don't know i mean mean, should we get IT on this?

Mike Pence is a social conservative. Yeah. I mean, I have. Really? I have. Yeah. I mean, it gets a little weird when you talk about some of the stuff. Like what I always have tried to do is, this is something I'm proud of that I've done the last couple of years, is that even if I disagree with somebody, I go, okay, well, how do they

come to this conclusion? Like I am pro-choice. Yeah. Okay. But I think I can understand how the pro-life person the way they consume this or they go this is what the timeline is and this is what you're doing like i can go okay now i get why you you have come to your conclusions i get where you're coming i just disagree with you 2016 taught us and i i always talk about like how wrong everybody was and

everybody's done this like that should be a college course, is how wrong everyone was. Because we kept looking at all of each other in these densely populated areas of education, whether you're on the coast or in New York City. Or the media centers are all based. So all of them, DC, New York, Boston, LA, Chicago. And it's just, this isn't going to work. This isn't going to work. OK, now he's screwed up.

And this guy's not going to get elected. OK, this controversy. And they kept ignoring these large bases of people that they just didn't have any like intel on or they didn't resonate with them whatsoever. Okay, so there is the pivot point

to my point on Bernie. So in the last two election cycles, one thing is clear. The Democratic voters like Bernie. The power brokers don't obama said a month ago let's talk about electability not purity shot at bernie uh james carville he's a communist clearly a shot get him out of the race because they don't think he's centrist enough yeah but this if you even think it's opposition to his beliefs or them going like hey if we want trump out of there can we get somebody remotely even think it's opposition to his beliefs or them going like, hey, if we want Trump out of there, can we get somebody remotely moderate that is going to appeal to more people?

Like, why do we go so far one way to try to take out a guy that we need to take out? And I say that from their perspective. I'm not condoning or endorsing. So here's my point on Brady. Nobody thought Obama. You're like, Obama's like a community. Nobody bought Trump. Are we sure? I'm not a Bernie guy. Are we sure Bernie's unelectable? The last two election cycles, he's the only Democrat that's like has a tribal following. Isn't that what Trump had? We mock Trump. It's like Bernie,

everybody's banging on Bernie. And my takeaway is the voters like Bernie. The power brokers say he's not centrist enough. With social media, the Democratic Party, both parties have veered a little bit toward off the fairway. How do we know he's not the best candidate? He clearly, clearly creates the most, even within the Democratic Party, That clearly creates the most, even within the Democratic Party, the greatest emotional attachment. Like you're against him or for him. Well, that was Trump in the Republican Party. You were for even Republicans. It was like Antoine Walker in Boston.

Like this guy's terrible or great. But I'm saying is if you look at Bernie, he's Trump three years ago, totally divided his party. He's too crass. In the end, in the world we live in today, do you have a tribal, passionate following? He's the only Democrat.

He's it. Are we sure he's unelectable? Because that's what everybody said about Trump two years ago. This is, well, four. Four years ago. We came together on this. I don't know how the hell we ended up on all this stuff but i love the obama one because pre obama's whole deal and if you go back and read game change which is the single best political book i've ever read in my entire life and that there were some power

brokers that were so anti-clinton so anti-hillary and bill and they were like we don't want bill like if she becomes president this bill's a total liability okay like this is all in the book and it's very convincing and very little was disputed in this book and it's the one that the palin hbo show was based on the john edwards chapter in there is like john edward you get done with the john edwards thing and you're just like oh oh, this guy's terrible. Like there's no, there's no counter to it. But there were people that were so anti-Hillary that they went to Obama and they were like, look, you're, you're next and you have our support. And then Hillary's like, what, who is this Obama guy? I think he is. And I remember just thinking like, this isn't like, are we ready for this? Is this really? And I would talk to older people

going like his name even sounds funny. And then it's like a little bit, the Heisman, this is my Heisman analogy here. The Heisman, when we were kids, you had to have had carryover from the year before because of how slow information moved. You had to almost make your Heisman case for 87 and 86. You had to be a favorite. Now, if you're the favorite, you have no chance of winning because you're held to this absurd expectation and everybody's watching every single week. You're better completely being off the radar instead of being Andrew Luck, being RG3. And that's where I think the first time we've seen it in the presidency where Obama was like, it was good that

he was totally late on the scene instead of being held against him. It was new. It was fresh. Everything about him felt different. And everybody's like, I'm in. I mean, not everybody, but everybody was in enough to get him elected where that would have never happened. And this isn't even about race.

No president. Like when Dick Cheney was like, no, I'm good. That was the first time. Wait a minute. The vice, like we grew up and we're like, no, the vice president

then runs for president. Like, what are we doing here? And that's why Joe Biden still running around going. He doesn't really want it, though though you can sense it biden's not but that was like the thing and cheney's like we're good like we don't you're not going to need to be digging in on what i'm doing right um i uh i don't know what's going to happen with bernie i don't i don't know i just i'm not i'm not the the misfire the mischaracterization or whatever you want to phrase it misjudging the trump audience was one of the biggest misses I've seen from the media in my entire life.

So all I'm saying is, is it possible? Because of everything we just said, we should have probably more of an open mind. We think Bernie's all crazy hippies. I don't think it's true. I don't think that's his audience. If you look at data on him, he's got older people. He's got coastal people. He's got Midwest people. He's got coastal people. He's got Midwest people.

He's not somebody I would vote for. For me, anybody that demonizes wealth, I'm kind of out on. Bloomberg doesn't. Clintons didn't. Obama didn't. If you come out and just say, wealthy people, I'm not like you. I'll tell you just, and it's not, I would feel this way when I was broke. Anybody that just starts saying all this stuff should be free on top of everything

else that people are being taxed for. Like when I didn't have any money and people were being taxed, I thought like, well, that doesn't make any sense. And I'm not talking about corporations. I'm not talking about Amazon. I'm talking about a guy that busts his ass that makes a lot of money. When I had none, I didn't want that. I'm the same way.

He was taxed. And so when I hear the, there's such fake, like I remember when Clinton ran, cause my father was self-employed. So this is early 90s. My father was self-employed, you know, a general contractor, but really more of like a guy doing decks and some additions. You know, it wasn't like he was running some massive contracting company. Things picked up, you know, as I got older, but I was already out of the household at that point. And we didn't have health insurance. We didn't have health insurance we didn't have health insurance i remember clinton's thing because it mattered to me it mattered because i wanted my dad to be able to provide and have health insurance for a family of what was it five at that point um where clinton was going to say with my first hundred days in office national health care plan all these different things and i was like oh well that's great like i want to vote for clinton isn't it and by the way it didn't happen right didn't happen and that's how i feel about uh and again there's a counter to that we were like hey if you're not gonna have be able to afford health insurance for your family don't have

as many kids right and that's that's how i felt about even friends of mine um about anything when it comes to this kind of stuff but whenever anybody goes tuition is going to be free national health care for everybody and all these different things like no no none of this shit is free like somebody's still going to pay for it right and that's the kind of stuff that i think sounds great and if your base is into it but there's just so many other people are going what wait well that's not going to be free like where's the math on college is free now forever yeah and i think i think when elizabeth warren came out hot on that i think people talked her off it. You have to be electable. I guess I come back to the same thing. I think the number one quality I look for in a candidate, if I think they're viable,

is energy. Do they have energy? And do they energize? Clearly a base. Obama did. Trump did. Bernie does. Now, I'm not saying Bernie will beat Trump.

Doubt it if the economy is good. The incumbent wins. Trump will probably win. But when I look at a candidate, are you energized? Hillary was kind of a fatigued, apathetic campaigner, I thought. She was tired. I think people were turned off by the idea that it felt like she was like, hey, now it's my turn. It was my turn. It wasn't Obama's turn. I got screwed on that. Now it's my turn. So just name me president. And it was like, oh. Well, that's how she campaigned the last six weeks. She kind of disappeared. Right. And then she wrote the book and I read some of it and she blamed everybody

else the entire time. I mean, if anybody listened to me right now, they're like, wait a minute, I can't figure out which side of this stuff is he on. I'm just, I like people that are pro-economy and I'm very, I think you and I are very aligned on this. As far as the moral stuff, I couldn't be more liberal. Yeah, I'm the same way. I don't want anybody telling everybody how they're supposed to live their lives. I'm the same way.

I don't really, I really. Did we do that? Was that any good? How long was this? Probably longer. I have my five questions, but I can't believe you and I actually just really did. Let's go fast.

I'm ready now. Okay. All right, here we go. Who would you least want to do a talk show with? A social conservative. That's not even hard. No, no, no. We got to get it.

A person? Yeah, yeah. We'll be positive first. If you could do a radio show with anybody five days a week. I could do it with somebody. Yeah, you can. So we'll make it a positive one first. Then we'll start a positive. Boy, that's a good question. we'll make it a positive one first, and then we'll...

I should have started positive. Oh, boy, that's a good question. You shouldn't have a co-host, first of all. Yeah, so it would be... I think it would be funny to do a one show with Chris Russo because he is so... That'd be weird to see you be beta around him.

He's just... To me, because I drive home and I listen to him. He's your guy? You're a big bad dog guy still, huh? Well, no, it's just... I think he does a good job and I listen to him. He's your guy. You're a big guy. I think he does a good job. He does. It's an old style radio show with a lot of baseball and a lot of calls,

a lot of base. Yeah. A lot of baseball, a lot of calls, but I think it would be funny to do a show because I would be laughing during the show because he gets so apoplectic and he's so emotional. I think it would be funny to do a show with him for a day, but you know,

we would, we would wear each other out. You can't give me me a name you can't give me somebody who you like i'm not going to criticize i don't think you and gotley would be a good show together no we'd barely be a good lunch together um if you weren't doing this like hey a law was passed too many takes you can't be on the air anymore 20 years 20 years from a social conservative you what do you do you can't retire you have to do something um i think i'm kind of analytical i would get i'd do stocks i'd probably be a broker i would i'm good at stacking and the way my i mean

i like data and analytical stuff and statistics. Do you? Yeah. I think you're too goofy for that. Well, I am goofy. Yeah, you're too creative. You just named like John D. Rockefeller. I don't see you that way. I'd be his dysfunctional son, Barry. If you were single, no kids, your age, your career, your money platform, what would you be like? Oh, I don't think I'd be nearly as good. I think my wife totally softens me up. Yeah, I think I need to be humbled. She humbles me every day.

I think I'm a way better talk show host with kids. I'm way more vulnerable. I'm way more insecure. You know, I have bad night's sleep. I think my family makes me more likable and relatable. I mean, who wants rich single guy? That's obnoxious. They want me to go through the same crap they're going through.

Their wife's yelling at them. And my wife yells at me enough. So it's like, oh, you just shit on me there a little bit. Do you think it'll ever go back to ESPN? Oh, God, no. God, no. It doesn't even appeal to me in a million years. It's nothing against the people. It's no, God, no. God, no. It doesn't even appeal to me in a million years. It's nothing against the people. It's no, God, no. First of all, I think it would hurt. This will sound so corny. I have friends at Fox. That would be an awful thing to do to them. It would be a terrible thing to do. I gave my career to them. They opened their arms to me.

my career to them. They opened their arms to me. There was no way I could. I think I would damage friendships. I would hurt feelings. I am all in on Fox. I'll go to Fox into retirement. Or if there became some sort of OTT where, you know, I'm 65 and I just want to do one hour a day. I create an app or something, whatever it's called in 20 years. There's no way. And this is not a shot at them. I did it. I'm over it. I have no interest. This is the perfect corporation for me in my life. And I think it would be a dereliction of almost loyalty or duty to go back. It would hurt people. And I can't do that. Does that sound corny? I can't do that does that sound corny i can't do that no it sounds honest i just could not do that that's good uh i appreciate this man i really do and i i appreciate uh you know it's always funny when guys are kind of like who's that new young guy and i'm like

that cowherd's at it again and you know like the on-air guys like we don't you always had this feeling about me i have never had this feeling you you always had this feeling about me i have never had this feeling you should have had any feeling about me i'm simply saying that like i was a young when i finally had the first position i liked you from day one which was 10 years ago yeah and you had been there i don't know how many years prior to me being there but i don't there was never like oh i don't like that guy but i was such a sports nerd that anytime i'd hear i'd be like oh you were you know but that's that's the way it works that anytime i'd hear i'd be like oh you know but that's that's the way it works because i'll have young guys now be like oh you you think you know

cleveland calves rotation like they're darius garland doesn't even come in you know and you're just like oh okay uh there's always a youthful angst and being from the northeast which i know and you've you've rided me on that be like hey lose a little of the yeah i've told you northeast soften a bit and i'm really glad that we've become, you know, or you can be, when I say, hey, you know, when somebody asks me, he's my friend. Yes, absolutely. You're great. I've always rooted for you. I know you have.

You've been awesome to me. Yeah, no, no. And you've been great to me. I feel really lucky. You know, it's what's cool about this business, and this will sound cliched, but I've told Jason McIntyre, I've told Gottlieb and Nick Wright. Like, I have hit the clubhouse, grabbed a Michelob light. It's the back nine. Like, I know this is the back nine.

I really do think about this all the time. I don't want to be older broadcaster who treats young guys like shit. I want to be out of rooms and guys like Gottlieb, Nick Wright, Ewan McIntyre go, he did a solids. Like he went to the bosses for us.

It does matter to me. It does. I know it's vain. I know it's legacy and that's all vanity. I get it. But it does matter. It does matter that when I'm gone,

you know, and they ask you and he's like,. I get it. But it does matter. It does matter that when I'm gone, you know, and they ask you, and he's like, he was a good dude. He was in my corner. Like, that matters. Because you know why it matters? Because guys were in my corner. Like, I had people locally

that went to bat for me. There's no way a guy from Portland should have gotten the job to replace Tony Kornheiser. That's not the way the game works. It would never happen now. Ever. And I tell everybody, what I did would never happen at ESPN now. That's not the way the game works. It would never happen now. And I tell everybody what I

did would never happen at ESPN now. Oh, this guy's out of work. Watch that match 450 in due afternoons? No, but grind and work your way up. You don't get the radio slot anymore unless you've already proven yourself somewhere else. There's no, hey, learn it on the job. And yours is more

impressive than me. And that's not conceding. It's just, it's the facts of what it was, than me and that's not conceding it's just it's the facts of what it was is that you were they would never ever like when after you left levitard was in place they move levitard around they move some of these pieces around they would never do that where i can't like i mean it never's a long time but it's just not the way the industry works anymore where it's like we'd rather have you not even be capable of doing it. But if you're a big enough name and you came from TV, here's your two years of seeing if you can figure out how to do this radio show.

And that's it. And then I don't even know. Like, I don't even know if radio is the play in another five years. I don't. Well, I think audio, this is audio. Audio, sure. Audio is great. But I'm talking traditional radio or there will it go so podcast heavy

that somebody will in five years be able to say hey you know what'd be nice is a live audio lineup reacting to stuff in real time as news happens i think there will be a pendulum thing i think as heavy as this podcast thing is the live reaction thing of a daily lineup is not going to disappear i've heard heard people say it before. It's like, you know, when people say stuff dies, I did stop reading.

I stopped getting a newspaper delivered to my house. I did like I did. It was just, it would be in the yard. I lived in Portland. It would be all wet. I'm like, this is,

and I used to live for the newspaper. I couldn't, I only time now is a plane. I grabbed the New York times, the wall street journal. I go on a plane and I sit and I read it. And that's what I love about the Delta Sky Club is I go, I grab an economist. That's what I do.

Never read it and put it in my bag. But radio, I've never given up on. I listen to it every day or audio. I listen all the time. And people are like, oh, you know, do you listen to Will Kane? I go, yeah, because I like Will. I don't always agree with him. Yeah.

There's too many cowboy segments. But I like the guy, even if I disagree with with them all this stuff because i still like i didn't get when i left it was a exhale it was like oh so i could turn i was listening to guys the next week in my slot i was like i'm cool i sample stuff all the time i mean i i all the time i'm just like who's this my my listening show a broussard and rob parker do a nighttime show on Fox Sports Radio it is in my time slot where I'm in my car so I go to the club I come home I think they did a really good job I think they're a classic radio show

crazy idea and like centrist like Broussard's more bro come down Rob's like highly emotional but I don't listen to steal a take but there are guys if you have good energy I'm highly emotional, but I don't listen to steal a take. But there are guys, if you have good energy, I'm in.

Like if you're selling something, I was listening to some host today. He was just selling the hell out of a topic. I was like, it's a pretty good eight minutes. I don't even know if he was right. And I don't know what his name was. Yeah, but see, that's the difference. But he was selling the hell out of it. Yeah, you'll listen for his approach.

Yes. And you will his conclusion. Yeah. Because that's your difference. But he was selling the hell out of it. Yeah, you'll listen for his approach. Yes. And you will his conclusion. Yeah. Because that's your thing. That's being a parent. You are better every day in and out. As much as I've disagreed with you over the years, and that's not what matters,

you are better at bringing the energy and finding a way to execute a day better than anybody I've ever been around. I think we should end right there. I don't think. I think we should. What's your show on again? I'm just kidding.

Fox Sports 1. It's very popular. Thank you. You bet. All right. I hope you enjoyed that. We covered a lot of stuff. Cowherd will be somebody we'll have on multiple times.

That was not one and done. And make sure you subscribe. Tell everyone to subscribe to the Ryan Russell Show podcast. Rate and review it. And check back in with us on Thursday at Craig Kilbourne in-studio. Thank you.