The Ryen Russillo Podcast - College Recruiting Stories Part 1, With Marcellus Wiley, Trent Dilfer, Matt Leinart, Booger McFarland, and Eric Chenowith | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: April 28, 2020

In Part 1 of a two-part series, Russillo is joined by former collegiate and pro athletes to run though some of their best recruiting stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Here is the plan. Really excited about this. Part one of Recruiting Stories. Five different guys at different levels of all of this stuff. Marcellus Wiley ends up at Columbia. Eric Chenoweth, big man, out of the OC, ends up at Kansas. Matt Leiner almost going to Michigan instead of USC. Booger McFarlane asked to play at Tennessee with Peyton Manning and Trent Dilfer committing a lot earlier than other people commit. So this is part one of Recruiting Stories.

We've taped a bunch of these, and I think you're going to really like them. Before we get to any of that, a couple draft observations that still, you know, it's Tuesday, it's after it. Bill and I did a ton on Sunday. And by the way, on Sunday, the pod, the Rodman stuff got way more attention

than anything else that we did, which is just whatever. That's the way it works. But I was really proud of the information that he and I both had just talking to different people around the league about all the different philosophies and everything that's going on into these practice facilities and what was really happening and what wasn't. And I think the NBA was trying to do the right thing here. And I'm very anti everybody that immediately does the well actually guy or what about guy, where all you're doing is trying to find a problem with everything anyone's trying to do as the NBA goes through this. I don't understand that energy.

I just don't. I refuse to put myself in that category, even though I've done it with other stuff. With this, I don't. And the NBA goes, okay, look, we want to open up these facilities so the guys aren't kind of freelancing on their own if states are opening up this weekend and we want to get in front of this oh wait now it means so i just i can understand owners being mad about it and being competitive with each other because that's what they do and that's why it's so hard for 30 guys to get on the same page with any decision but i really think the nba was trying to do the right thing be like all right limited numbers of players in a practice facility no team workouts with with multiple people in the group like one and oh stuff and maybe that helps

us you know protect this or keep it under our umbrella and instead it just turned into this thing and i don't think it was this massive massive controversy i'm not making it out to be that but i did see the circling of of the vult, well, that's what they're going to do. Okay, here's my problem with their decisions. And you just go, all right, here we go. And it also happened with the NFL draft. And this is just a real quick thing that I want to do on it, is that leading up, what, NFL reporters everywhere saying,

talk to this guy, talk to that guy. And they said the mocks are terrible. The mocks were right on. This thing went shock. And I really felt like the first 12 to 13 players, maybe it's a nine to 14 for you, depending on what you think that first tier of talent is in this draft.

I just, I didn't realize, like I just had a hard time believing that we're going to have like three guys going in the top 12 that belonged in the 20s in the Mocs. And I did think the lack of information was something rare where you didn't have the lower level guys who were in team facilities for weeks leading up to the draft leaking information because that's usually how it works. You didn't have that happening this time because no one was meeting at these team facilities.

So a lot of the lower level scouts, the area guys, even if they were part of the day-to-day front office and they're at the team location and that's where they live. There just, there just wasn't this meeting or these meetings. There wasn't the flow of information going around. So that information isn't leaked and we can't help ourselves. It's human nature, sapiens, read it. It's just, we love to talk. We love to gossip. We love to talk about different things. And, uh, that's, that's how all this information gets out. So even though I believed that theory that maybe there's going to be some stuff that happens here that we don't expect because it's just a lack of information compared to other years, I thought the talent at the top of the draft made it hard for me to believe that all of a sudden we're going to have these guys going that we didn't think were going to go. I mean, Judy and CeeDee Lamb going later than Ruggs. Judy going after Ruggs, I don't think is

actually the most shocking thing. It's just that judy months and months ago in the beginning of the real post-college football season mock draft season uh judy was going a lot higher back then and then judy ends up going later and cd lamb goes 17th which i still can't believe but um there were no real shocks in the first round except for that there were the jordan love quarterback thing green bay that was surprising because of it being green bay but it just it wasn't wasn't this chaos that. There were the Jordan Love quarterback thing, Green Bay. That was surprising because of it being Green Bay, but it just, it wasn't, wasn't this chaos that some people were predicting. There were no trades and there were no glitches. No, there's, it's fun to make fun of work. Like I had said, uh, in last week's podcast, Hey, they have bad internet. I have bad internet makes me feel like, yeah, these, these NFL guys're screwing all this up stuff nothing went wrong really like nothing went wrong i watched most of this thing

and all of the angst and excitement to almost see it go poorly because i think that's what people root for sometimes none of that stuff happened here's one last thought on it and that's jamis winston now um looking like he's going to be behind Breeze this year. Parents can be too forgiving. I have a father who is more supportive of me in a way that I could have even agreed with him a couple times. If you were less supportive of me, I would actually understand it. And you can be really blinded as a parent, right? How many times have you maybe stuck up for your kid and then also said, well, you know, as the rest of those kids,

right? Maybe you do that earlier on. And then if your kid ends up, you know, running a gang, you're like, all right, well, maybe, maybe I misread that in his early teens. But you know what I'm saying? Like, you don't want to believe that your kid is the bad kid. You want to believe that it's the circumstance. It's the other kids. And now they had him doing this. And he's probably selling you the story anyway, he or she, right? Let's include everybody in this. He's probably selling you some version of the story where it was everybody else, okay? Like, I was a kid. I don't have kids. I understand still how kids work. I think we're all on the same page on this one. But we're even more accepting, forgiving, excuse-making, clean-slating, which isn't really a term, with quarterbacks. Because

the Jameis Winston stuff is hysterical. He has been in the league since 2015. 15, 16, 17, 18, and 19. Last year, if you point out his yardage totals, I don't want to hear from you. 30 picks, I think 12 fumbles as well. Lovie Smith this first year, Dirk Cutter is OC. They moved Dirk Cutter to head coach. Todd Munkin, the OC for two years. Then Dirk is also, that's actually three years, 16, 17, and 18. And then Bruce Arians comes in with Byron Lefkowitz as the OC.

Last year, they actually were 22nd in DVO offense. They were fifth in defense. Their overall traditional defensive numbers look bad because Jameis was so incredibly bad. But then what happens? Hey, he's behind Breeze. He learns under Peyton. We do this thing where we talk ourselves into quarterbacks

and give them not second, but third and fourth chances where it's like we never, ever want to give up on these guys. I have given up on Jameis. I don't want to hear about the offseason. I don't want to hear about any of this stuff. He turned the ball over in college. He turned the ball over in Tampa and he got even worse in an offense where he had good weapons and was just chucking the ball down the field all the time. I don't know that you can tell guys, it's almost like all of a sudden telling somebody, do you just be better as an outside shooter? You kind of are, you aren't. And the Jameis stories after the Saints acquisition,

I was like, oh, no way. Like, oh, this is all just going to magically work out. Like in a year, he's going to take over for Breeze and he's good to go. Yeah, probably not. Let's talk recruiting stories. We're all stuck inside though right now and trying to keep calm and carry on

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I haven't talked to Marcellus in a little bit. So he's an incredible story. Probably as cool as anybody. 92, you're at St. Monica's. Your team stinks. You're balling, but you're at this private school. Everybody knows the background from Compton, but you're going to school in Santa Monica. Yeah. What was going on as people started realizing you were this guy that was going to play? Like what were the early recruiting things like the interest

of different schools that were after you? Yeah. The short of it is, man, I grew up like a pop Warner legend out here, obviously free social media. So I'm getting recruited to go to high school to play running back. I get to high school. I go to a football sports factory, Westchester High School. Probably even known more for his basketball prowess, but certainly good in football as well. And I get Osgoode slaughters on my knees. I have bad knees. I'm clumsy, not as athletic. People are looking at me like, what happened to this dude?

I thought he was pro-bound. Now he's a bum. So I'm like playing all these positions because I'm still athletic, but just not the same. Finally, one of my father's friends, who was a coach of mine in the Pop Warner ranks, was coaching at St. Monica High School, small school. But every single player was going to a D1 school. They had a coach by the name Angelo Jackson. He recruited me from Westchester to go

to St. Monica's. And I landed at St. Monica's and we actually were really good my junior year. And we go to the playoffs. We lose, I think, in the playoffs last round, whatever it may be. And then that year, that coach, Angelo Jackson, goes to Inglewood and takes the whole team. And I'm sitting there like, I can't go to three schools in four years. I ain't that dude. I actually go to class and study. So my parents look at me like, you stuck. And I'm like, I'm stuck. So we show up to camp that senior year with 17 players. We don't even have enough players to run a scout team and practice. So I knew the season was going to be bad as a team. But individually, I had to start to really narrow my focus

and get selfish and just go out there for my numbers. So we didn't win any games. We were 0-10 on the field. Retroactively, they gave us one win because another team had an ineligible player. Basically, we were an 0-10 team, and I was the MVP of some bum walk. All right, so how else, like, I know kind of some of the reasons why it was Columbia, but who

else was in the mix at that point? Yeah. UCLA was my favorite of the teams interested in me. I had fallen out of the mindset of going to the big, big schools. So then I was after, you know, some good schools. UCLA was one of them. Arizona State. Who else? A couple of the Pac-10 schools. But I took my visits there. I didn't really want to go to any of those schools.

I love UCLA because of the balancing act I think I could get with the academics and athletics. But it felt like high school 2.0 on the visit. You know, they're walking around trying to say, hey, this is Pauley Pavilion. I'm like, yeah, I know. I've been there. And they're like, oh, yeah, here's the campus hall. I'm like, yeah, I've seen it. So it didn't inspire anything new in me.

So I had big school offers, but I really didn't want to go there because they weren't my favorites. So Columbia, how does that happen? Yeah, the crazy thing is, so Columbia, uh, it's my senior year. I'm on that 0 and 10 team. I'm in practice looking at one of our coaches and he had on these dark Navy blue shorts and in Columbia blue, which I call light blue sky blue at the time. I was like, it said Columbia. And at first I'm not gonna lie. Like a lot of people, I was like, is that a country? Like, did he go to school at Columbia. I was like, it said Columbia. And at first, I'm not going to lie, like a lot of people, I was like, is that a country? Like, did he go

to school in Columbia? I was like, whoa, I got to hear some of them stories. But I was like, what's Columbia? And he's like, oh, that's where I went to school. I was like, really? Where is it? And he's like, New York and all that. I was like, oh, okay, tell me more. And he's like, it's an Ivy League school, but trust me, you don't want to know anything about it. Don't go there. It's the

worst football school ever. And that was the end of the conversation. Just a pass by in practice. He told me never to go to that school. And then a month or so later, I get a good recruiting letter from that same school. So what was the recruiting visit like to a school? They lost, what, 44 in a row? Yeah, they did. Imagine that you're a freshman, you come in, all right, we're going to win, so let's go, guys. You graduate as a senior, you didn't win one damn game. That's what happened to those guys, man.

So, yeah, I go on my recruiting trip. So I had the big school recruiting trips, and they were nice, and parties, and all the big stuff, everything that we all know about. But you get the Columbia's recruiting trips, a little different, obviously, different budget, different expectations. So the things that stand out is, one, this is my first time in New York City. So they already got a leg up. I mean, if you're from L.A., there's only one rival town. Like, you've got to go to the other side, the dark side, and see where they break dance, where rap music started, and where the culture comes from. So I'm in New York, like York looking around like, this is amazing. And then it was snowing, which was another thing for

my Cali guy. I show up in shorts and t-shirt, and I'm like, yo, this is amazing. They're looking at me like, will you put some clothes on? I'm like, dog, it ain't that cold. It's just a novelty to me just seeing the snow come down. this is what really got me i knew about the academic reputation i did my homework i realized that if i failed in football that i would have a high safety net based on reputation and branding from coming from an ivy league school uh we're at the you're already thinking about this stuff you're already thinking about this stuff like if i can get out of where they they must have kind of been like is this huge guy from compton is he really gonna come here they must have thought like no way are we actually getting this guy yeah it was crazy man like it was a heavy

recruiting pitch and i loved it because i i certainly stood out in my class not only in looks but demographics and just also ability so So it was good. I felt that I would have been a big fish in a little pond. All that's real. But they poured it on heavy, but they really broke through when we're at the top of the Empire State Building and it's select recruits. So we're on a recruit trip, but then there's like this VIP room with the guys we really need to get. And there weren't any hundred dollar handshakes, which I wish, but it was just like, yo, I'm gonna break this down to you. And my coach at the time, Ray Tellier said this, he said, Marcellus,

do you want to go to a school where you can carry the torch or you want to go to a school where you can light the torch? You got me inside. I was doing all that. I was like, ah! You got me. Inside, I was doing all that. I was like, ooh, impact, relevance. I'm going to matter if I go to Columbia. And then I just started to hear all the other stuff that made sense. You would stick out. Your alumni base are nothing but CEOs and team owners and billionaires. And they're all going to know you and love you. Your local papers, the New York Times. And I'm like, what? That's worldwide distribution. They're like, everyone's going to know if you're good. Just come here. No one can really get over the mental hurdle of

going to an Ivy League school and playing ball. So if you can do that part, the rest is going to take care of itself. So when you came back, what did your boys say to you? I had two different versions of reception from my boys versus like the teachers and counselors. I told all my boys and they're like, what? They said the same thing. You're going out the country to go play ball? I'm like, dog, you really don't fell off. You ain't nothing. Like then I started breaking it down to them and they still were like, nah. But then I was telling about dog, you really unfelt off. You ain't nothing. Like, then I started breaking it down to them, and they still were like, nah. But then I was telling them about the Pac-10 schools and everything. And they were like, man, if you don't go play in the Rose Bowl, get the sweatsuits and wear the gloves and all that stuff.

And I'm 17, so it still was attractive. But then I would tell the same stories to my teachers and counselors. And I would tell them about UCLA and all that and Arizona State and all that and Cal. I forgot about Cal. And they were like, oh, that's amazing. Great. Tremendous opportunity. Yes, Marcel. And then I say, but then there's also Columbia. And they're like, what? My teachers will be like, stop. I don't want to hear anymore. Go there. I was like, hold on. Wait a minute. The school is good, but the football sucks. No, no, no, no. I don't care, Marcel. Trust me. You haven't lived long enough to know. It's going to work out for you.

Obviously, my teachers, they won't over. Was there any coach from any of the Pac-10 schools at the time that called you for the last minute thing to try to flip you? Because he can be flipped. He can be flipped from Columbia. The closest was Terry Donahue. Donahue, Donahoe from UCLA.

We talked like we went all the way with it. I actually saw him a few years ago. It was so funny. We were laughing. He was like, I can't believe, I still can't believe you went to Columbia and now you're here and all this happened. Like, he's like, I just was like, oh God. And it was funny there.

No, not really. Cause I'm look, I wasn't five star. I probably, it was borderline four star, but more in the three world that they knew I had a growth spurt in me. This is what teams were banking on. They all told me, come to my school and you'll play safety. Columbia said, you can play running back. Now at the time I'm'm 6'1", 180, and I'm a kick returner, running back. I could run. But the funny thing is, my dad, 6'3", 200. My mom, 6'1", 250.

So teams and schools were like, he's going to catch his mama one day. Boy, that's going to be a good day. But I hadn't gotten there yet. Moms were still bigger than me when I was a college football player. My mom was still bigger than me. That's how it was. Well, it worked out. It did, my man. Thanks, Marcellus. Trent Dilfer,

quarterback, go. Well, my favorite recruiting story is I grew up in Northern California on the coast in a town called Santa Cruz, and Fresno is in the middle of California. If you spun California on your coast in a town called Santa Cruz. And Fresno is in the middle of California. If you spun California on your finger, you'd spit it on Fresno.

And I was recruited really late. I was actually recruited as a basketball player. Rich Olson, who was the offensive coordinator, recruiting coordinator at the time at Fresno, came to watch a kid named Todd Whitehurst, who was their number one quarterback recruit. He happened to play in the same conference as me. And they came to watch him play basketball at our gym against me. At the time, I was number nine on their list as quarterbacks. I mean, nine for Fresno State. So Florida State has probably 338, okay?

And I went for 40-plus on Todd, dunked a handful of times, had one of those big time basketball games. And the coach came up to me after the game on the floor. This is probably November, late November, early December and says, hey, we were here to verify that Todd was our guy. But now after watching you compete, your athleticism, matching it against your film, we would like you to take a trip to Fresno I'm like and at the time I'm looking at northern Arizona and Santa Clara as my two options to play quarterback now I could have gone to Cal Oregon Arizona State uh Washington State to play outside backer tight end people forget I'm not a 6'4 225 pounds, a senior in high school, and could run and jump and all those things. So I fit more of the outside backer, tight end mold, to be quite honest with you.

So those are my options. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to let you play quarterback. You're Division I school. Let's go. So a couple weeks later, they pick me up. Rich and I are driving over to Zolesmobile. And anybody in California knows this. You drive from the coast to the Central Valley

on what's called Pacheco Pass and you go by this big reservoir. And I'll never forget where I was. In fact, I could drive there tomorrow and be within a quarter of a mile where I looked at Rich Olson and I said, hey coach, where's Fresno? I literally had no idea where we were going.

Fresno could have been in Montana. It could have been in Nevada. It could have been in Missouri. You never looked it up? No idea. There was no Google. I had no idea where Fresno was. I was a coastal kid.

I was a board short wearing, flip-flop. You know, that's how I grew up. This is the Central central valley had no idea hey coach where's fresno he laughs blah blah we get to fresno a couple hours later we he shows me some stuff he tells me he kind of he shows me some love we go into jim sweeney's office he's the godfather i mean him and uh lavelle edwards and bobby bowdenden. Those were the patriarchs of college football today. I mean, Hall of Fame legends. I walk into his office.

Trent's so good to have you. He has this big old handshake, big old meat claw hands. He gives me the little bulldog snap thing. He goes, so glad to have you. And I looked at him. I said, well, I'll commit. They never offered. I was just on a trip.

I had no idea. I didn't know where I was going. I had no idea where Fresno was. He's just saying hi to me. He's being the cool head coach. It's just like, hey, how you doing? He's probably hasn't even watched my film, to be honest with you. This is somebody else's job. I'll commit right now. I want to call my mom. Where do I sign?

He goes, whoa, whoa, whoa. Why don't you enjoy your recruiting trip? Why don't you have some fun? We got some talking to do. Now, he ends up telling us, he sends past, we told the story for years that that's what made me, that's what made him commit me. Like, he had heard about the basketball game. made me that's what made him commit me like he had heard about the basketball game he saw my first interaction with him was bold and arrogant strong and assertive he's like i want that quarterback he had never seen my film ever committed me on the spot and never saw my film how good is that didn't know where i was going got there two Got there 25 hours later and committed without being off.

Okay. But I got to ask, like, why were you such a weirdo? Why did you not ever know where Fresno was? There were atlases. Okay. Like if you were,

and then what was it about just walking in that you go, I'm in because you didn't think you had any other offers. Like this is, you weren't going to talk to your mom about it. You're just like, I'm in, let's do it. I'm in Cal.

First of all, California is its own country. So there's plenty of people in California that don't know where Temecula is. If you have somebody in Chico where Temecula is and they're 16, 17, they may not know. So I'm a little justified there pre-Google. Number two, I had taken my one trip to Santa Clara, and they talked about football going away like what a recruiting tool they're going to talk about football going away and sure enough it did a year or two later uh i was scheduled to go to northern arizona i think

a week or two after that but it's northern arizona i mean nothing bad about him but this was yeah right and one of the first things I saw when I got there, Rich Olson was smart. He showed me Kevin Sweeney broke the NCAA passing record. Jeff Tedford was the quarterback there. He was playing professional football in the CFL. Like, they had a lineage of quarterbacks. Henry Ellard had played

there. Steven Baker had played there. So, you know, they had dudes. They just had, I think, two or three guys get drafted. They sold it as, we're the next secret powerhouse. I bought hook, line, and sinker. That's why you're a foxhole guy. That's what I always say about you.

Yes, I am, brother. You were in. We've got a couple more recruiting stories coming up here. But first, during this time of social distancing, connecting with friends over a beer today looks pretty different. As the original light beer, Miller Lite has always been there to bring people together in real life through Miller Time. Miller Time is the moment for people to come together in real life to connect over a few beers.

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Right there. I was like, this is like spinach for dads. Miller Lite is the beer that makes Miller time possible. Miller Lite is the original light beer that tastes great and is less filling, which means it won't get in the way of enjoying time with your people. And, you know, I got a lot of people that love Miller Lite. And I tell you right now, I don't decline any other phone calls. When I see the call come in, I go, hey, that's a Miller Lite guy.

I'm going to answer. Miller Lite, the original Lite beer. While you're home, enjoy a classic available for delivery today. Celebrate responsibly. How about that? They deliver. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Matt Leiner, 2001 class.

He was a four- out of matter day 58th overall on one of the recruiting rankings, fourth overall pro quarterback though. Brody Croyle was the number one. He was a stud man. He was a stud. And it was funny as I, the, the thing I found Matt was the, he was the only guy who had like a headshot and he already had the Bama bangs.

I don't know if Brody invented those or not. I don't think he did, but he was, he was early. We had, I remember real quick, we had, uh, we were, um, all went to the elite 11 that year. And that was when Bob Johnson was doing it. And it was, it was Brody. It was Derek Anderson. Yeah. Um, Kelly Clemons, Adrian McPherson, who was an absolute, who went to Florida state and was absolute stud DJ Shockley. I don't know if you remember DJ Shockley played at Georgia. Um, and Kyle Orton, Kyle Orton is probably the one who of all of us played. I mean, DA played a lot, but Kyle Orton was probably the one that lasted the longest or played the most, but, uh, yeah, Brody Coy corral good old southern boy man so you're

a california kid it looks like you're going to usc and then all of a sudden like they fire everybody so it opens back up so what's kind of the best memory of that time so the so yeah i committed to sc under hackett and q jackson was the coordinator um actually the quarterback coach coordinator kennedy Pola, who was still my coach when I eventually recommitted. But I decommitted. And before that, I'd really only taken one recruiting trip, and that was to USC at the time. I kind of made my decision early just to get out of the way. And then once I got fired, I was just like, man, you know that's

oklahoma jumped in really hard after that and that was the year uh they won the national championship when they had josh heupel and they beat i think they beat wanky at florida state the championship in 2000 2001 um so my recruiting trip was in december of that year during their bowl practice for the title game which was just sick sick. Like it was just like, couldn't be there at a better time. And I had never, I mean, you're talking about at that time, I had never been out of the state of California, probably unless it was like Vegas or Oregon to see my family. Michigan, I did go for a football camp, but I'd never,

I'd never been to Oklahoma. And I remember getting there and it was, the facility was awesome. Like it was, it was great to see something different, but I remember like when I was at USC, our, our two dinners were at the time it was rain steakhouse, which was Keyshawn steakhouse in Beverly Hills, which is, was a five-star restaurant. It was Papa Doc's restaurant in San Pedro, which was just a great like staple for USC recruiting. Um, and then it was like the, it was beaches at the time, which is now the Strand house, as you know, it used to be called

beaches. And it was like this breakfast kind of, uh, cafe place right on the water that they would take us to Sunday morning. So I had like, you morning so i had like you know you know you get wine to dine at usc in la and then i go to oklahoma man and i'll never forget i'm it's our first night i think it's like you know usually it's one night is the big night for dinner and i'm with uh i don't know i remember who was on my trip there's one one uh chris chester i don't know if you remember him he was a he was a lineman from tustin um high school he ended up playing for the rain i'm playing 10 years as a tackle as a guard he was on my recruiting trip and uh we go to applebee's man and we're like like i'm like i'm looking i'm like we're going that like this is it like i remember telling like we're going to applebee's and it wasn't even

like i wasn't even like bigger than them. I just was like, this is really weird. And I remember we're sitting in the back room and we're eating Applebee's and Mark Mangino was there. Stoops. Was he working there or was he on the staff? He was on the staff. Oh, okay.

Mangino was on the staff. Chuck Long was the coordinator, the quarterback coach. And I just never forget, man, walking outside, calling my mom. And I was like, you'll never believe where I'm eating dinner right now at Applebee's. And that was like, and then we went to a frat party that night. And I'll never forget Teddy Lehman. I don't know if you remember Teddy Lehman. Teddy Lehman was a great linebacker for Oklahoma, middle linebacker.

He was my host. Dan Cody was my host as well, who ended up almost killing me in the national championship game in 04 um but those were my hosts man and we just we had probably what was a typical night for them in oklahoma at a frat party um but i just i remember walking away that weekend thinking man i just don't think norman oklahoma is for me i just i couldn't stay there so um that was pretty funny. And then I do have a funny trip, kind of a funny story when I went to Michigan. So early on, it was USC and Michigan were the first two. And Michigan was recruiting me really hard at the time. And they would only offer me a scholarship if they saw me throw in person. So they had this big camp they did every summer, a week long camp.

Um, and, uh, you know, they, they, they treated me pretty well there. You know, I was a big recruit as me. It was, uh, two other quarterbacks. I forget that were pretty highly ranked and they were going to offer like one of us, one of the three. So it's pretty, you know, high pressure. And my, my best friend still to this day, his older brother was on the team at the time. So we didn't stay where the campers stay. We stayed at their house right off campus.

And I don't know if you've been to Michigan's campus or that area, but it is tiny. There's nothing to do there except it is just a little college, little two-mile radius. And in that house was Dave Terrell, the great receiver that went to the Bears, who ended up being one of my good buddies for a long time. Petrozzella, Benny Jopru, who's a tight end for Michigan and played in the league for like five or six years for the Texans. Just a bunch of good dudes, like eight dudes in a house. And we got wasted like every day. I remember going and I was 17 years old. I remember going to the camp like

two days in a row hungover. I'm like, what am I I'm gonna I'm gonna piss away this opportunity. And I remember one night we went to Rick's Cafe. And I don't know if you've heard of Rick's Cafe. But any any Michigan alum that's going to listen to this will know what I'm talking about. It was like their it was just their bar. It was their on-campus off-campus bar. And I'll never forget, man. I got so drunk that night. They all, all the football and the football guys like ran out. I got so wasted that I'll never forget. I was like,

I was at a table just like this, just head on. I passed out right there. 17 year old kid, this big time, I'm recruit trying to get a scholarship. They had to carry me out of Rick's cafe. Um, and I don't know if it was the next day or the day after again, I was there for like five days I had to throw. Um, so they threw, I threw a John Navar who ended up, you know, was there, who was, who I would have competed with at that time, I guess, um, in the big house, which was pretty sick with like some of the top receivers are there that camp. And I threw pretty well. And, and, uh, Lloyd Carr brought me up to his office and ended up

offering me a scholarship that day. Um, but man, I'll tell you what, that that's still to this day, like the most fun I had. And I was actually really close to the Michigan trip was a lot more fun than the Oklahoma trip. Um, just cause I knew guys there as well. So, um, yeah, man, those are two pretty, two pretty good times right there. So how close was it though? Cause it seems impossible, you know, now that we've seen you and you're still in the area and this is, this is home for you. It seems impossible of thinking of you in any other uniform than SC, but was it ever close? It was really close for Michigan,

and I'll never forget. Again, kind of all of those things. I had my best friend's brother was there. And you were cool redshirting, because you redshirted anyway, but you were cool redshirting wherever you were going. Yeah, I was just, yeah, I was just, and remember too, sc was terrible like

they they were horrible they were six and six carson was there who's carson was always talent obviously we were just you know coaching was just terrible um and this was still prior to to pete carroll so this was still when hackett was there this was in the summer before that year of fall and so i'll just never forget, honestly, like I could, I don't think now looking back, I would have never left home. Like I just couldn't do it. But I remember having a conversation with my mom and I was telling her like, I'm really like, I really love Michigan. Like I, like, I think I could, like, it would fit me whatever at the time. And I'll never forget, man. Like she's broke down whatever, at the time. And I'll never forget, man.

Like, she's broke down in tears. She's like, you'll never make it there. Like, I almost gave her a heart attack. Like, I remember having a few emotional conversations. She just did not want me to leave. And a lot of it was because I was her baby. And a lot of it was because she just knew I couldn't last. And I remember like this.

I remember I told them my decision at Black Angus. I went to Black Angus in like Fountain Valley, which is down in Orange County, some little, you know, like, like little steakhouse. I don't know if you heard of Black Angus, but I don't say crappy steakhouse, but not a high scale, whatever. And I told her, I'm going to go to USC. And like, she just burst in tears and she was so happy so I was in my mind at the time I was really close for sure but I don't think looking back I would have ever gone anywhere else and I think it worked out for you at SC recruiting stories with Matt Liner thanks man all right buddy thanks dude okay Booger McFarland, class of 95,

Winsboro, Louisiana. Were you going to go anywhere besides LSU? Yeah. You know, originally, like when the whole recruiting process first got started, me playing defensive tackle, I wanted to go to University of Miami. Miami had always had a great history

with Warren Sapp and Jerome Brown and Cortez Kennedy and Russell Maryland. I mean, you just keep going. All the great defensive tackles they had. But Miami didn't recruit me. So then it was Florida State. Just because I grew up in Louisiana, man, and I wanted to get out of the state of Louisiana. Like, I mean, that was my initial inclination was leave home go somewhere different because I never had and Florida State said I was too small so I'm like hell you know both of mine not necessarily top two choices but you know kind of my my wish list of you know just being thoughtful about different places I could go both of them turned me down so when I kind of narrowed my recruiting

list down it was five schools on the list it It was Tennessee, it was LSU, Arkansas, Notre Dame, and I want to say it was one more. I can't remember the last one. Penn State. Probably between the first two or three weeks of my senior season because I wanted to take my entire senior season to play ball and just kind of take my time to sort through those five schools. And then I went on to play my season, and the whole process was fun, man. But LSU wasn't top of mind, even though it was really the only school in the state to recruit me. So what was your best visit then, if you're a kid trying to get out and maybe the biggest eye-opening experience traveling for the first time? So I'll talk about my trip to Tennessee.

I go to Tennessee, and Peyton Manning is there. In high school, I played both ways. I was an all-state guard and I played defensive tackle also, all-state both ways. And so it's a visit during the season. So Tennessee had just played Alabama. James Stewart, Aaron Hayden had just went off. And so, you know, we go to the game, after the game, come downstairs.

Phil Fulmer, Fulmer is the head coach. And so, you know, now Neyland Stadium is empty. And Phil Fulmer goes, hey, Anthony, I want you to walk out in the stadium with me. And I'm walking out through the goalpost. He's got his arm around me, and he's just saying, look around. And, I mean, I grew up in Williamsburg, Louisiana, a population of about 3,500 people. And so my mouth is like literally on the floor because I had never seen a stadium like that big.

And, you know, he starts to squeeze me a little closer. And he says, oh, it's dude. It's starting to get really weird. And he's squeezing me and he tells me, hey, close your eyes. And I'm like, oh, hell, where are we going here? He said, close your eyes. He said, now I want you to bend over.

And at that point, I'm like, okay, do I need to be worried? I didn't call my mom about this. And he says, bend over. Get down in the stands. He said, now I want you to imagine something. I want you to imagine the stands and the crowd that you just saw. Now I want you to imagine the stands and the crowd that you just saw. Now, I want you to imagine as you're bent over, imagine Peyton

Manning sliding his hands underneath your rear end and you're the starting center for the Tennessee Vols. He said, can you picture it? I stood up. I said, no, Phil, I can't picture that. I don't want to play center. And dude, hey, dude, Phil former looked at me like I had, he looked at me like I had four heads. I said, Phil, hey, Phil Foreman looked at me like I had,

he looked at me like I had four heads. I said, Phil, I'm a defensive tackle. I don't want to play center. He said, well, do me a favor. Don't say no right now. Just take your time and think about it. But when I left Tennessee, that was the last time I thought about going to Tennessee

because they wanted me to play center and snap to Peyton Manning the next year. And I had no idea, A, how to play center, nor did I have any motivation to have another man stick his hand between my leg and put his hand there for me to snap a ball for like the next three years. So that was my Tennessee recruiting visit story that basically turned me off from Tennessee. The is is knowing you a little bit like I have over

the years like that's you most most 18 year old kids even if they were like I'm not feeling this at all they probably just go yeah you know coach sure you know because you just don't know what to do it's Philip Fulmer you're in the stadium and just knowing you you'd be like straight up no 18 years old nope no thanks not interested in that so and that was the thing like i knew who peyton manning was the peyton manning was a was a new orleans kid and so his idea was we can get this kid to come from louisiana we've already got two or three guys from louisiana up here peyton manning's here so maybe if i talk about him being the starting center, because the center they already

had was a guy named Bubba Miller who went on to play for the Eagles. Well, Bubba was graduating, so they were looking for somebody in the Bubba Miller mold. Short, quick, athletic to play center, but nah, I wasn't feeling that. So that means Miami said whatever. Who on Florida State staff? I mean, what is that like to be told as a kid I mean it's absurd now to think this long great NFL career because you're six feet Florida State was just like no we're sorry like that had to be yeah brutal Chuck Amato um and that whole crew were like yeah you know we're looking for kind of bigger kids. And I don't think they were looking for bigger kids. I think the bigger issue, they were trying to find guys in-state because, you know, if you fast forward,

I played with Greg Spires. Greg Spires played defensive end at Florida State, and he's an inch shorter than me. And I'm saying to myself, how in the hell did you get to Florida State? But they didn't want me to call. But Greg was from Florida, so they were trying to take in state kids. And I get it. But, you know, Chuck Amato told me I was too small.

You know, the whole Butch Davis, Randy Shannon, those guys said, nah, you know, you just don't fit what a Miami guy is. And I'm like, fast forward years later, I stand next to Warren Sepp. Warren Sepp and I are the same height. I'm like, how did these guys say I was too small? I didn't fit what the prototypical guy was supposed to be. When they recruited guys that were the exact same size as I was.

So, how did you end up at LSU then? Alright, so, ball it down. I had two, three visits in-home. Penn State was cool. Didn't really feel Penn State just because, you know, once I started looking at the weather report and how much it snowed up there,

that really kind of threw that one off. My best friend the year before went to Arkansas, and I knew nothing about Arkansas. And I'm like, okay, so I'll give Arkansas a shot. I'll give LSU a shot as far as guys that are going to come in my house, visit with us, visit with my mom, and let's discuss this. So Penn State, LSU, Arkansas all came to the house. Penn State was a dud.

So Danny Ford comes to the house for Arkansas. So, you know, Rosillo, I know you don't know anything about this, but when you grow up in like a small shotgun house, there are certain rooms of the house that family is not allowed to go in unless you get special people coming to visit you at home. And, you know, that's kind of like the formal living room where, you know, your mom keeps plastic over the furniture. Nobody can go in there it's like it's like a second room well danny ford's coming to the house so danny ford gets to go in that room now this is the best room in our house which probably costs furniture included probably costs 300 bucks but to us it was the best thing going so danny ford comes in the door we walk in

that room my mama's got fried chicken, mac and cheese, cornbread. She's got a feast good enough for a team. And she welcomes Danny in. We go in that room. Danny sets down. And the very first thing Danny Ford did was put his cowboy boots on my mother's coffee table. And my mother gave me a look like, who the hell is this big, tall white guy to put his feet on my table? At that point, no matter how bad I wanted to go to Arkansas, I knew I couldn't go to Arkansas.

So we go through that whole visit. And, you know, Danny gives his feel. My mother, you know, she nods, but she's still thinking about her coffee table. You know, we eat dinner. Danny goes home. She looks at me, and she says, he has no respect. I know our house is not a lot, but he

has no respect for my house. How can he have any respect for my son? I get it, Mom. Jerry DiNardo comes to the house about a week later. To Jerry DiNardo's credit, Jerry understood what his strengths and weaknesses were.

Jerry was an Italian guy that wasn't from the South. So what Jerry did, Jerry let his assistant coach do all the talking. Jerry DiNato literally said about 10 words the entire visit. And the assistant coach was a black guy named Jerry Baldwin, who grew up in Louisiana, who my mother related to. He said all the right things. He talked about developing the man, making sure I go to class, et cetera, et cetera. And my mother fell in love with him.

And for me, it was easy because it was two hours from the house. Now, later on, I came to know Jerry DiGennardo was a piece of shit, but that's beside the point. So that's how I kind of went from going to LSU. It was kind of a process of elimination. LSU was the last visit I took, and if LSU would have been the first one, it probably would have saved me from Phil Former and Danny Ford,

but it made for great stories years later. I tell those stories all the time. Danny Ford and Phil Former kind of eliminated themselves. What was the biggest problem with Jerry DiNardo? Jerry DiNardo was an Italian Northern, a Northern Italian that did not fit in the South. Um, when you grew up in the South of Sillow, um,

certain things mean more than I think around the rest in the South, certain things mean more than I think around the rest of the country. How you treat people, like a very small thing, very, very small thing. Your character, how you act, how you interact with people.

Jared Donato just didn't fit in the South. Like from the food, how he interacted with the Cajun people in Baton Rouge. You've been to Baton Rouge. You know how Baton Rouge is, man. Baton Rouge is a Southern town. It's crawfish, it's beer. It's let's play football.

Let's have fun. Jared Donato just didn't fit. He was too businesslike because he kind of got groomed under Paul McCartney out of Colorado so he just didn't fit in bad rooms Yeah, I also remember one of my first trips down there and they were like, never hire the guy

from Vandy to be your head coach and so I think Jerry had a lot of things when it's LSU, I mean it seems impossible now that LSU would ever hire somebody who went 19 and 25 in four years at Vandy to be their head coach, but that's exactly what happened in 1995. You're the man booger. I appreciate it.

Anytime. Later, bud. We are also brought to you by ZipRecruiter. During this time of change, we want you to know that ZipRecruiter's focus hasn't changed. They're still doing what they've always done, helping people find work and helping businesses find the right people for their open roles. If you're looking for a job, ZipRecruiter is working with you businesses find the right people for their open roles. If you're looking for a job, ZipRecruiter is working with you to find the right job fast. They're dedicated to helping you get hired from caretaking to delivering food and goods to

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eric chenoweth oc legend mcdonald's All-American, class of 97. I know you ended up at Kansas. Were you five-star? They didn't really do the five-star thing. It was just like, if you're a McDonald's All-American, then you knew you were one of the top players in the country, I guess you could say. So I'd imagine everybody wanted you at some point. They don't make human beings like you.

Yeah, I mean, I could have gone anywhere I wanted. I narrowed it down pretty quickly. I picked basically one school from each conference and kind of went from there. So I narrowed it down to, it was Duke, Kansas, UCLA, Arizona, Utah, and then Gottlieb made me visit Notre Dame, and that was basically it. So Gottlieb was like you, because you were from the same area as Gottlieb, rightb right yeah we grew up in the same town orange and um and his dad used to train me and i used to work out with doug all the time and tony gonzalez and all those guys used to work out together so um you know i liked doug and he was a good point guard so you know he convinced me to take a visit so where did you want to go when you were still in high school i always wanted to go

to kansas i mean i remember like being a kid doing yard work for my dad, like listening to the 88 championship game over transistor radio in the backyard. I mean, that was like, you know, Danny Manning played for the Clippers. And so I got to watch him and it was always Kansas and everybody else. And then when they started recruiting me and kind of offered, it was like, okay, you know, let's do our checks and balances and everything but then it all checked out so that's where I ended up going was Duke like wait a minute you're supposed to come here you're an enormous white guy do you

not understand the rules well Duke I mean recruited me and offered but and I love Duke and Cherokee Parks was someone I looked up to and he used to work out with me in the summers as well and I kind of wanted to follow in his footsteps but Duke had Shane Battier, Elton Brand, Chris Burgess coming in and so I was like there's you know where do I fit in this in this picture which you know so I ended up you know obviously not going there but loved Cameron Indoor the tradition with with North Carolina everything I mean it was it was awesome and I took an unofficial trip there, actually. Chris Burgess and I took an unofficial trip, our junior years in high school.

We went out for the Carolina-Duke game at Duke, sat behind the bench, got in the locker room, met Dick Vitale for the first time, and Brent Musburger was doing the game as well, too, so we got to meet him. I mean, incredible atmosphere and experience with our fathers who ended up taking us to the game as well too. So we got to meet him. I mean, incredible atmosphere and, and, you know, experience with our, with our fathers who ended up taking us to the game. So what's your favorite memory of the entire process?

Is it a sit down with Roy at Kansas? Is it some other visit, something else that you'll never forget? Gosh, if I could pin it, well, I took an unofficial to Indiana as well and had breakfast with, uh, with coach Knight and my dad, which was a pretty interesting conversation. And we had a really nice breakfast, went to his office, which was pretty cluttered and full of a bunch of weird stuff. And I'll never forget on his desk, there was a huge like coconut. And if you go to Hawaii, you can buy these big coconuts and you can ship them to you know whoever

it's like a postcard you know and he had one on his desk and it said it takes cojones to win the big 10 and so it was I was sitting on his desk and then he said he gave me a list of every single one of his parents uh of the all the players he ever had and said here's every single one's home phone number you call any of them and ask them about me, which I thought was pretty, was pretty interesting to do as well too. But coach Knight was great. Had a great visit with him. I just, I wasn't totally in love with Bloomington. No, that's fair. So what about UCLA though? Cause I have to imagine that,

I mean, that's when it was rolling. Herrick's there. It's a great staff. It's a team that, you know, it's fresh off a title. I mean, a couple of years, not like the year before, but I'd have to think as a big man in UCLA wanting you and being a California kid, that's tough to walk away from. Oh, totally. It was hard. I mean, so I went to the 95 Final Four in Seattle with my dad, watched them cut the nets down and win the national championship. You know, I used to, I grew up with Luke Walton playing basketball. So, you know, I got to meet Bill and work out with Bill at the Muni gym in San Diego. And, you know, he talked about, you know, Bruin Walk and, you know, everything about UCLA. And I loved UCLA.

It was closer to home. Pauly's great. I, you know, thinking back now, i'm surprised i didn't go there just because everything lined up perfectly as well too i loved coach herrick i loved coach coach romar and coach lavin and coach um uh godfrey i mean everything fit but the guys on the team and i just i just didn't feel comfortable with those guys they kind of made fun of me on some things and it just wasn't like, it wasn't the embrace that I got.

What were they making fun of you for? Well, cause I'm a white guy from Orange County. What else are you going to make fun of someone for? You know, like, and I would go up and play pickup games. And I remember like Jelani McCoy nicknamed me like Skeet or something like that. And every time I walked in the gym, he goes, what's up Skeet? And I'm like, what is, so I went up to coach to coach romer i'm like what's the skeet thing about and he's like well skeet is the sound of the rim you know uh the rim you know the sound of you getting dunked on all the time because they used to call you skeet because it was it was a foul

like skeet you got dunked on and so i was like well that's not very nice so you just you see like and you're a high school kid still right going up there on the weekends playing pickup with the guys just to like get a workout in and like i remember like chris johnson would always make fun of me and like i was just like this isn't gonna i don't want to enter in a situation like this where all these guys you know are gonna make fun of me from day one it just didn't make sense for me so what size you're seven one what at that point seven one like 235 235 yeah but did everybody like did everybody want you to be a badass because i know you we're friends and i'm look you're an enormous human being but you're the kindest you're the nice

you're one of the most supportive for like i think you have this personality that sometimes didn't match the body and i don't know if that always was misinterpreted as weakness by other basketball players totally was i mean it was the the term is soft right so like right and i remember like i played for a very hardcore high school coach and he pushed us hard and we practiced hard. And I was not a soft player by any means. I remember I got suspended for a game in high school for elbowing a kid in the face and breaking his nose. Like, we got after it and I was a tough player and I played against older, bigger players a lot. there's a lot. What,

what happens though is you get to a program like Kansas and you're playing against, you know, guys like Rachel France and Nick calls and drew good. And, and I remember my freshman year at KU we were in Hawaii in a tournament and we were in shoot around and we had a joke of like blocking each other's layups if we're by the rim. And I remember Rafe used to swap me all the time, whatever. And one time he went up just to do a casual layup and I went to swat it and I hit his hand weird and broke his hand. And Rafe was out for 18 games his senior year that he came back after being a first team All-American as a junior.

And now he's coming back to be the man and he has to sit out. Felt pretty horrible about that. And a little bit of that made me a little skittish, I think a little bit, but you know, if you a little bit, but, um, you know, if you want to fight, let's go fight.

You know, you want to play basketball, let's play basketball. So I wasn't really very good at combining fighting and playing basketball. You know what I mean? So tell me about the Kansas trip. So Kansas, I was,

I committed early and, um, so I was already committed, but I wanted to take an official trip. So I went out for a late night at Royal Williams, which has been that madness, basically. So it's October 1996. And so I fly in. We go to a team dinner. We go to late night.

There's 16,300 people there. It was my trip, Khalid Alameen and Kenny Gregory. They had these big 10 by 12 signs with our numbers on it and our last names, marching them around the arena. It was pretty amazing. Scott Pollard got engaged that night to his girlfriend. So we all went out and had a big night at the Yacht Club in Lawrence, Kansas. If you've ever been there. And then the next day they had practice first thing at the Yacht Club in Lawrence, Kansas. We've been there.

And then the next day they had practice first thing in the morning. So we went to practice, but I'll never forget pulling up to Allen Fieldhouse on late night, four hours before it's supposed to start. And there's a line all the way down, you know, Naismith Drive, which is pretty amazing. And that's always the clincher for guys. Once you're a recruit and you go to a game at Allen Fieldhouse, it's over. You're going to go there if you have any type of sense on the best college atmosphere in the country. And right now, as we finish up, you are taking care of athletes. What are you doing with your insurance company?

Yeah, so I do disability insurance for athletes college and professional um ironically enough we just had the nfl draft you know last weekend i had eight first round picks uh that i insured and i had about 50 guys overall that i insured um throughout the country and then obviously once guys turn pro um i put them in large disability insurance policies typically during a guy's contract year when they're set to make an eight or nine figure deal within the next 12 months, we put them in multimillion dollar disability insurance policies. And then once they sign their big contract, we do life insurance form for estate planning purposes. And so it was a good transition for me out of

basketball, still staying close to sports and working with all the different professionals that i i knew uh back when i played i got a dm on instagram and it said who was the guy that was with you at tool go he was the nicest person ever realizing how tough it was to see anything from behind him and i go yeah it's jenna with he sat down the whole time i did that's right oh that was the la show then because we were on the real. That was the LA show. Yeah. That was a good one, man. All right. You're the man.

Thanks, Eric. Hey, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Talk soon. Okay, I hope you guys like Recruiting Stories Part 1, Part 2 will be next week. Before we say goodbye, I want to remind you

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done life advice where we have the guy on, which we're going to do at some point. Um, that's the, uh, life advice, rr at gmail.com. I think that's the website. Is that it, Kyle? I forget. Kyle doesn't have a microphone today, so we can't check in with Kyle, but you know what? Thursday, we're going to check in on our big guy and see how he's doing. Thank you for everybody that downloads and rates and reviews. And we'll talk to you in like 48 hours. you