The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Craig Kilborn on Luka, the Timberwolves' No. 1 Pick, and Round 2 Playoff Matchups. Plus, Why the Process Isn’t Dead.

Episode Date: August 25, 2020

Russillo shares his thoughts on another early playoff exit for the 76ers, Sam Hinkie, and the Process (2:20), before he is joined by the one and only Craig Kilborn. They discuss Luka Doncic’s stellar playoff performance against the Clippers, Celtics vs. Raptors Round 2 speculations, what the Timberwolves should do with their 2021 no. 1 draft pick, Finals picks, and more. Then, Ryen pitches Craig some 1990s 'SportsCenter' one-liners (11:55). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:00:25). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Ryan Russillo and this is the Ryan Russillo podcast didn't sleep great we're gonna just get off to a couple things I feel good I feel good about today's guest Craig Kilbourne his second appearance on the Ryan Russillo podcast here at the Ringer Podcast Network so I'm excited to talk some hoops with him I've attempted to write out some Luka Doncic catchphrases for him to use if he decides to re-sign with SportsCenter. So, and he may break some news. I think he has some sources on some stuff. So we're going to do that.

We get some life advice there. I may ask you for some life advice at the end of this. In all sincerity, I don't know. I may. I'm not i'm not sure want to check in with kyle real quick kyle how are you i'm great things are going well hey kyle do you say no cap no never in my life never i thought no lie was a reach when when that came around i had a few friends that kept saying hella this This was a long time ago. And I'd always kind of do like an inner, like, come on, man, we're almost 40. And he'd say, oh, man, that's hella, hella good. And again, if you're saying hella, keep doing it, man. I'm not saying don't do it. And there was a couple of white guys, a couple of black guys, and we're all talking about stuff. And it was a few years ago. And I think one guy

was dressed a little bit like he was getting ready for a dirt bike competition. And there was definitely not a dirt bike competition that night. And he was telling me, we were hitting it off and we were exchanging contact info. And he's like, you know, I have a bunch of stuff going on, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. I was like, all right, great. Yeah, cool, man. Whatever.

We'll keep in touch. And then he actually said to me, he goes, you know, a lot of guys are saying no cap now. I was like, okay, okay. And he may have said it and I didn't really pick up on it. This is again, I think three years ago. And he said, you know, if you, if you say something like, man, you know, I think this, no cap. He's like, do you understand what I was?

Yeah, I kind of get it. It's like this declarative thing, like this definitive thing to say. It's I got it. Haven't used it. It's been three years and just wanted to share that with everybody. This week's open is about the process again. Are we still doing this? Yes, we kind of still are doing this after the Celt is about the process again are we still doing this yes we kind of still are doing this after the celtics swept the 76ers now a couple things if i'm a sixers fan as i

mentioned with bill on sunday's pod like you guys realize we didn't have ben simmons and that means we probably wouldn't have been swept and it wouldn't be this ugly but the problem is is because all of the attention has been paid upon you and the process that you have to pay a heavier price. And yes, I do think it's a little unfair for the criticism of the Sixers, although most of it's warranted. And it wasn't like I think you were going to necessarily go real far in the playoffs this year. You were six seed. You couldn't beat anybody on the road. So that would mean that you actually needed to be at home in your own arena to win some games and the whole Embiid and Simmons problems.

But let's examine what the process was, because the process was tanking with a cooler name. The process was what the Knicks did, but better and what many teams did, but actually a lot better. It was a failure if you're only going off of championships or deep playoff runs, but it's a success. If you think tanking or whatever version of the process is being done by multiple teams is about adding elite talent. And even if that elite talent talent doesn't fit the Sixers actually added some real pieces there despite the pieces they put around them the process was something that writers loved writers

I kept telling you the entire time defend the process because they love the idea of a Sam Hinkie an outsider coming in disrupting the, and maybe proving that anybody who looks at sports analytically could run one of these teams. Because deep down, we all think we could do it. How many times, especially younger guys that are about my age, but when you were younger, my age now, you probably thought you could manage a baseball team. And until I was around a baseball team, every single day that I realized, hey, I definitely couldn't manage a baseball team. The process was something that writers love, but other GMs hated. They hated this. If I could get paid for every counseling session I would have with a member of another front

office complaining to me about how bullshit it was, that yes, there's tanking and yes, it can happen. But that Hinckley, who you're supposed to get paid and judged on the job by how many games you win, was spitting in the face of the whole idea of the position. That pissed off a lot of people. And it also speaks to, hey, I have an idea. Well, what's your idea? I'm going to save for the next 10 years and then you and I are getting married and we're buying a house. And by the way, you could probably just get engaged before that. So let's leave the wife part out of it. But I am going to save for the next 10 years and then buy a house. It's a

great plan. It's a really good one. Dad would be really proud of you if you said it to him on the phone one night. You know what's hard? It's making sure you stick to that plan and saving for those 10 years because you're like, man, I would love a jet ski. Ah, man, I could update my wardrobe. All right. I probably shouldn't go to Lake Havasu, but, and you notice how I did jet ski and Lake Havasu, same guy. That's the point. It's really easy to tell people and convince them, hey, I have this great idea,

but day-to-day to live through that pain was very difficult for the rest of the NBA owners, the other GMs that were pissed off about the whole thing, and let's face it, the people inside the building every day as Philadelphia was putting out an awful, awful basketball team. The process was obsessively pointless at times, whether it was tracking warmup shots during warmups, which I've read about the accumulation of second rounders that

writers kept talking about, like, oh my God, they have six second rounders. They're going to be able to control the entire second round. They're going to have so many draft and stashes. Second rounders, for the most part, are pretty pointless. The process was a really cool way to talk about something that everybody else was already doing. And as I've tried to teach people, when you label, when you brand something, the target is bigger on you. But let's also remind ourselves how the public and specifically coworkers react when it appears that somebody is trying to make it seem like they're just smarter than you are while they've never done the job. And that was one of Hickey's downfalls. I like Sam. Talked to him twice. One time in Chicago, we were discussing a Michael Carter Williams trade where he was set with the way people were talking about it. I was like, we should just do more interviews. And of course, he declined. And then we're watching some of the players. And he's like, hey, this is all off the record. And I'm like, dude, the trade we're talking about has already happened. And by the way, all these guys are going to be in Greece

and Poland next year. So who cares? Not a big deal. But Sam, if you go back and look at some of his tweets, especially people in the finance world that would look at his and comment on some of it, where he was out in Palo Alto after he left the job. Chris Ballard did this amazing sit down with him. And there were just moments where you go, is this guy serious with this? The Blazers that were all size 40, same color, so that he could eliminate decision fatigue. Do you believe that that is true? Do you believe

that your day is only a limited number of decisions or we only have so many decision resources throughout the day? It sounds really cool, but it's probably kind of stupid. And there are little moments of that that would be applied to a front office. I mean, this is somebody in the Ballard interview. Again, I love this quote so much. Every hour between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m., his Fitbit vibrates. And it's not to remind him to exercise. He spends the next 60 seconds after it vibrates considering the hour to come. Once properly centered, Hinky proceeds with his day. That's insane. And I don't even think it's true.

I just don't. I think it sounds really fucking cool. And it reminds me of a lot of stuff that we can all do. We talk about our jobs. We talk about our lives with other people. Like, hey, what do you do? Man, I'm starting up with this company

and I'm just about getting my message out to as many potential consumers because I just feel like I have unlimited bandwidth right now to share our message and our vision with so many different potential partners. And that's really what I'm focused on is just kind of getting that branding and imaging out there. Get it into the subconsciousness. Get it into the lobes. Just get people to just start thinking about us. so you fucking cold call all day yeah yeah i'm on the phone a lot okay and that was always one of the fundamental problems which leads to our incomplete conclusion today is the process dead

i don't know i mean what what is dead i mean he's been gone for years now brett brown got seven years i know brett brown i've seen your tweets about what a nice guy he is Brown got seven years. I know Brett Brown. I've seen your tweets about what a nice guy he is. He got seven years on the job and I'm not saying it's all him, but he wasn't a solution. Elton Brand. However, this all shakes out. He's only had the GM title for three years. So that probably felt a little quick to move on from him. And like so many NBA teams, the final decisions do lie with so many of the owners and i believe the sixers is a very owner heavy decision-based group i can't sit here and do some monologue about how the process is dead because i don't know what what the story is supposed to be it's not hinky being gone it's not brett brown being gone as long as simmons and beat are on the same, which another team is probably going to get a shot at this,

meaning another coach is probably gonna get one more shot at trying to figure this whole thing out and see what it's like pairing them together with something different. And I've seen a lot of this out there, but my point in closing would be the finality that we want to this six or chapter just isn't there yet. Before we get to this week's interview with Craig Kilbourne, not that he comes on every week,

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it's just to kind of ease everybody into the process, but I can tell Craig Kilbourne is hot and ready to go today. So I feel like you have a couple directions you'd like to explore first that's just the sense I'm getting from you right now you can't hear the power blowers I'm out in the desert we have the gardeners here thank goodness you can't hear them

when they do end which should be in about 10 minutes I will be celebrating I've done a couple zooms on my iPhone this is the first one on my iPad. Now I had to hook it up because it was my wife's iPad. So you told me iPad number three, and then we're done. The ringer makeup person did not show up.

Okay. And I always assumed it was Kyle anyway, but the ringer makeup person did not show up. So this is sans makeup. I'm ready for you. I'm ready to talk, Luca. It's a good angle. Okay, so that's, before we get too distracted with anything else,

it really does feel like you sent me a note going, this Luca thing. We were going back and forth. And by the way, happy birthday to you. Thank you. Monday was your birthday. You shared a birthday with my brother. So that was, you know, just top of mind. Reggie Millerer's reggie miller's a good one yeah dave chapelle that's another good one and kobe bryant let's not forget too he's on the 23rd kobe's the 23rd

the day kobe's the 23rd that's right mom but day was 8 24 so it just extended it extended good good correction on that one um so just give me all the luca feelings that you have right now that maybe you haven't felt in a while because i i'm glad you're here because i want to run some things by you because uh you know the game uh i don't know if your listeners i've watched a lot of basketball ryan. I know who Hank Lucetti is, the guy that invented the one-handed push shot from Stanford. That's way back, 20s, 30s, I don't remember. I've seen Paul Arizon. I've seen Slater Martin.

So Luka, I watched him last year as a rookie, and I was aware of Luka magic. But everyone now is, I don't want to say struggling, but they're comparing him to players when, of course, as Mark Cuban says, he's his own person. He's Luka. Can we first eliminate the whole James Harden comparison? Okay.

Why is that? Well, I don't view Jamesames harden as a gifted passer he because he handles the ball a lot he does get assists is he is he a gifted passer am i missing something i actually think i this is very ironic that you're bringing this up because this became a controversial topic a couple weeks ago i can understand watching luca and watching harden and be more impressed with the flashiness of luca but i've always thought harden is an incredible passer i really i really do think oh not maybe okay yeah now i think what happens is that jason kidd we've kind of put jason kidd in this group by himself where it's like oh my god not only is it is a spectacular watch it's

also incredibly efficient i think harden is more along the lines of these the way he would read the lobs the way we read the corner stuff so i do think harden has actually always been a very good passer so it's fine people to see my shirt here for a second okay um okay so i might be wrong about harden i do get a little tunnel vision i liked him when he was on okc one of those years he shot 49 and I don't want to completely rag on Harden, but he is now, as basketball fans, we're allowed to like someone's game and dislike someone's game. So I don't like Harden's game. I just want to tell you why. He's changed his game over the years. Do you remember when George Carl was the coach of the Nuggets and he talked about

the ball sticking in Carmelo's hands? Carmelo would get it and do the locker step, triple threat position. He'd hold it before taking a dribble and he decided to just rise up and shoot a jumper. And George Carl was like, move the ball. Don't take so long. Harden sticks the ball in one location. He just yo-yos on the perimeter until the defender and the viewer, me, falls asleep and then he shoots. These other guys that dribble the ball a lot, like Chris Paul, who is one of my favorite players, Steve Nash, Luca, they're usually moving around and making things happen. They're not just

dribbling in one location as the ball freezes and stops and everyone stares so i'm not a huge james harden fan what people are now saying with luca i read this morning is larry and magic um i can break down a couple things please luca handles the ball very very well okay larry larry didn't dribble all the time out of the perimeter and drive it. Luca can get anywhere he wants on the court. And I'm a little stunned by that against Paul George and Kawhi Leonard, that he can just get to the rim and then adjust his body. Maybe he's stronger than I realize. And then he, he's very crafty around the rim, banking it off the glass. Are you a little stunned at his dribbling

and how he moves around the court in the half-court offense? Absolutely. Now, I think we both know the basketball's angles, those drives where you think, okay, is the help going to get here in time? You can read all these things in the moment, and you can tell when you're even with somebody or you have that advantage

and you know how when we watch kawaii in the beginning of his ascension you'd think how does this always work why is it that kawaii can just kind of slowly dribble turn and then what the hell's going on like it didn't make any sense to me until i started thinking i don't know that we we spent enough time admitting the body types and how advantageous they can be. And I've always felt like with Kawhi's shoulders, he just has a different thing in the length of his arms that that's what works. It's just the science of it. You were like, hey, he's just built a little differently. And I think Luka, despite his massive size for that position, that his handle is tighter, but he's wide. He's a wide person at this age and even if you think you're with him you're not because this massive because it's not always quickness it's it's not the first

step there's other people with much quicker first steps than luca but i i think he just you notice how how dribbling now and it's been going on for years but it's it's keeping contact with the defender as opposed to trying to get away from them all the time. So guys will stop and let the defender catch up, feel them on their back. You know, all these different things. Luka can just ride with you the whole time and then he's going to finish at the rim because he's that much bigger.

So a couple of things. I want to talk about Luka's speed and quickness. But I do want to say one thing. When I was watching, I think it was game one, there's a chance, and I'm a Luka fan, obviously, there's a chance that he carries the ball on some of these moves. Okay? Yes.

But I'm not going to say anything besides. I mean, Allen Iverson carried the ball. They called it all the time. He would just be carrying all the time. There's a chance he carries the ball, but that's not important because I just love watching him play. We all know the difference. I'm sure your young viewers, listeners know the difference between speed and quickness. So Larry might be slow running up the court, but he's cat quick on his first step and his ball takes.

running up the court, but he's cat quick on his first step and his ball takes. So Luka is quicker than when you saw him get free for the shot, the winning shot against Reggie Jackson. He did a little crossover move. He's quick, but he still does something which I adore, and it's called moving at your own speed. So you know how Paul Pierce played at his own speed? I love guys that can just move at your own speed. So you know how Paul Pierce played at his own speed? I love guys that can just move at their own speed.

I'm going to give an obscure reference that most people don't know. There was a guy, I think it was in the 80s, named Lewis Lloyd. He played for the Houston Rockets. He went to Drake University. But I remember a guy telling me he moves at his own speed and he's unorthodox and he throws us all off with how he moves because he kind of get kind of lopes around. But I think Lucas, he's quick. He's very quick, but he moves at his own speed sometimes when he drives. Right.

He kind of rides the guy and just does what he wants. Yeah. You don't have to constantly dribble away from everybody all the time. Right. yeah you don't have to constantly dribble away from everybody all the time right when you're smaller now we've seen all these small guards that come into the league and there's there's really i always feel like there's these tiers of perimeter players that come up from college where they finish at the rim for a living in college and there's just a step slow or a step small like sebastian telfer again he didn't have to go to college but telfer when he got to the pros it was wait like i'm going to be one of those guys who can never finish like i'm quicker than everybody but

once i get there i'm never going to be able to finish now size wise it's completely different but you're right like there's a there's a pace to basketball that he has mastered there's there's an angle part of it that he's already mastered and i'm always kind of pushing back on like how great can he be but i mean when's the last time you've been this excited about a basketball player other than perhaps Trenton? Who? Oh, Dame.

I was going to say Trenton Hassel. I just wanted to say Dame dollar, but anyways, no, I do like Trenton Hassel. Very, very funny.

He was the glue guy, man. He defended. He really was. It's a good player. I know, I know, Ryan, you want to get to the terror wolves. Can we just focus on Luca for a moment? Yes.

Sorry. I know I'm jumping the run down. You're jumping the gun. Luca. Yeah, it was fun. Can I say he's not a pure shooter or is that unfair? No, it was fun. Can I say he's not a pure shooter, or is that unfair? No, it's accurate. When you're 31%, I mean, the league average I think now is like 36% from three.

He's below average. So the comparison with Larry is that he rebounds, he passes, he scores. And Larry, of course, was a pure shooter. And for the young people, again, I just keep educating. If you want to check out how to see if someone's a pure shooter, look at their free throw percentage. Guys that can really shoot are really good at the free throw line as well. You know what I'm saying?

So, yeah, Luka is pretty amazing. And I've seen him body up some people on defense. What's your take on his defense because you probably watched you probably watch regular season games he seems like he's solid or not uh you know i think it's enough it it's enough and the this matchup is is weird because you don't want him stuck with one of the perimeter players although paul george can't make a shot to save his life right now and they've got a small yeah yeah they and they have other they have they actually have good depth between finney smith and even though michael kidd gilchrist is is not much of

a player offensively they have some bigger bodies so they can hide luca so i usually think every young player stinks on defense because they just either don't buy into the team concepts or they're too busy figuring out how to score right i would not say it's a strength at this point, but that's why I stopped whenever I would do draft stuff and I would write up these things on guys. I stopped worrying about their defense because it almost takes you a little while, especially as one of the stars and one of the offensive players. LeBron, I remember when his defense took off, it's when the media decided, hey, it was almost this planned thing. And defense did become incredible but all of a sudden it was you know it was great on defense it was LeBron and it became like this campaign to remind everybody but let's face it in the

beginning it wasn't that great and now I don't worry about LeBron's defense but yeah I wouldn't say it's a plus I just think that he's in control of every offensive possession in a way we're not used to seeing from a player this young right I like when you say you don't worry about LeBron's defense. Do you worry about a lot of things with the NBA? Do you stay up at night and just – By the way, the Gardeners are gone. I'm free now to talk. When Jeff Green was raining threes in Game 3

for the Rockets against the Oklahoma City Thunder, and that was when I was worried. I was a little bit like, hey, your next 24 hours, threes in game three for the Rockets against the Oklahoma City Thunder. And that was when I was worried. I was a little bit like, hey, your next 24 hours, you're going to be a little annoyed by this. Not that I'm a big OKC fan, but historians of this pod know where I'm at. I enjoy watching OKC. I enjoyed the last few minutes of the game yesterday. Harden was guarding Chris Paul.

Paul hit two big shots. You understand these guys that even though they dribble, they're economical. They know what they're doing. He's dribbling, and he's not going to take too long. He might yo-yo a little bit, take a shot, pass or penetrate. I love Chris Paul. Can I move forward? Let me go back to the Clipper game.

The Clippers should win the series because they have more talent. Yeah. forward let me go back to the clipper game the clippers should win the series because they have more talent yeah it's just that if paul george all he has to do is shoot 28 instead of you can just get to 28 yeah instead of 15 i mean that is stunning it's stunning i i can't believe it who's who's the anchor you worked with that was the most like Paul George, where if he had a bad show, you knew he was going to have three bad shows? Oh, I would never say, and I don't think that way. I don't have the negative vibes that percolate in your creative mind. I know. I'm sorry. Oh, I did want to say something else.

Remember that series with the Houston Rockets and the Knicks when John Starks was ice cold and he kept shooting and the Knicks lost? 94? Yeah, somewhere right around there. Yeah. And I remember a Knick friend of mine, he was a fan of the Knicks and he was a friend, and he said, we live and die with Starks. We live and die with Starks. And I said, well, you died and this is what Starks should have done. And then I eventually, the coach then was Pat Riley. Then I blamed Riley. This is what, this applies to Paul George. If you're ice cold on the perimeter, what do you do? You drive to the basket and get fouled and get some free throws get your rhythm going at the end

of the game yesterday the other day he drove and penetrated and made some nice passes he actually made a layup if you're ice cold on the perimeter it's such a basic concept don't shoot drive create manufacture points at the free throw line you've've heard this before, correct, Ryan? Yes. Anyways, I think the Clippers should win this series, but this is really fun. You mentioned Mello's game and the ball sticking with George Carl, and that observation's right, but something tells me at your peak, that was your game.

I didn't. The ball stuck. I made things happen in a hurry. You did? Yeah. I could spot up and shoot. I know you could shoot, but you kept the ball moving? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I either would shoot or drive.

I would never yo-yo in one place. I wasn't interested in breaking people's ankles. I'm not mean that way. I'll just blow by a person. That's it. It's not about humiliation. No, it's not about humiliation. Go ahead. Well, I was going to say, do you, as a fan and as a personality, are you able to say in each series who you're rooting for? Because you don't, you can be biased, right? You

can say I'm rooting for OKC or I'm rooting houston or yeah i'm actually less biased than the people covering the teams i think but the one bias i've admitted now for about two years is i root against the houston rockets so uh because because you don't like that style of play um which i started i sort of actually dislike a lot of people that covered their team because i'd be like it, it was a bit like, it's not the same as Barry Bonds, where Barry Bonds fans were going, what's wrong with the rest of you? And everybody outside of San Francisco was saying, what's wrong with you? And again, nobody's done anything of the Houston Rockets to what Bonds is accused of doing. But it's become a very territorial thing where Rockets fans and people that cover the Rockets

can't understand why people are just kind of tired of watching this team play, even though I give them credit, even though I like certain parts of the team. Daryl Morey is somebody I've known longer than anybody. I like Dan Tony, and I give them a lot of credit for their approach. It's just, unfortunately, this is kind of a broken record for a lot of people listening. So I've said, hey, just in case you're on the fence about where I was at, I'm not interested in watching this team win any games. So they were up 2-0. Yeah, when they were up 2-0, about to go 3-0, I was at. I'm not interested in watching this team win any games. So when they were up 2-0, yeah, when they were up 2-0, about to go 3-0, I was like, yeah, here we go.

And I wasn't going to be surprised because I actually thought Houston was the better basketball team. They were better against better teams this year. Yeah, they have a lot of talent. I don't care for, as you know, all the three-point shooting. So isn't it exciting that the Thunder won yesterday? It was just an exciting game.

I think this series is really fun. And there are those moments where Houston's 8 of 8 to start the third quarter, and you go, how do you beat these guys? And then they go 3 of 23, and you go, how do they ever beat anybody? Good. So it's been the same deal, but I've always gotten back to, even if you don't like it aesthetically, if you're not a hardened guy, and again, Westbrook hasn't played in these four games,

so you have to factor that all into this, but Daryl Morey took on the Golden State Warriors when very few had any interest in it, right? And if it wasn't an epically bad shooting performance towards the end of that series a couple years ago, and I'm sharing this with you. I know people have heard it, but I'm reminding you at least they almost took them down and they probably would have won a title.

And I always give them credit for that, despite not like watching it. Will you choose me for a sec? Call on me. You just said Houston, Craig up front. You just said they epically shot bad in game seven. That's the reason they lost.

The reason they lost was Chris Paul didn't play. He was hurt. Yeah. He had the hamstring thing. You're right. Yeah. Two reasons. That was the,

that was where he had. Yeah. And then Trevor reason went, you had a terrible game and everyone had a terrible, but you're rooting for Chris Paul in that moment. Cause you like Paul so much. Were you rooting against the warriors? Were you rooting for Chris Paul at that moment?

Oh God. Yes. But I root against the warriors because Were you rooting for Chris Paul at that moment? Oh, God, yes. But I root against the Warriors because they're too good. I don't like – yes. I root for underdogs in general. And I don't like all the three-point shooting. And I get a little concerned. As you know, I'm a terrible fan. I do like Ursan Rosis.

I've heard him talk. And they say things like, well, the numbers tell the story. You know, I'm a terrible fan. I do like Ursan Rosis. I've heard him talk. And they say things like, well, the numbers tell the story. Three-point shooting wins. And I could take the numbers and change them. If you come down in three possessions the last two visits and shoot three three-pointers and miss all three and I make two layups, I win. You ever heard them say the numbers bear it out we know that we understand the advantage of a three-point shooting and i said this before is i don't want to see guys shoot 35 i want guys a team to shoot closer to 50 mix in twos with threes and that's where it's weird the warriors who have the great three-point shooters and steph and clay the other team sometimes shoots more three-pointers than the Warriors, which I find that to be undisciplined.

And you are, if nothing, a disciplinarian. Can we transition to your T-wolves real quick with the number one pick? Where are you on the – what did you do for your – did you have a home draft party or did you take the jet back to the Great Lakes? No, I was in the mahogany panel then in Los Angeles. And you don't want to see that. You don't want to see what happened to the Knicks happen to the Timberwolves, you know, where the card comes up early.

And again, we already know there's no consensus, number one. If you can trade, they're going to canvas the league and see if they can trade. Bradley Beal, you know, something like that. Because you don't know if Anthony Edwards or LaMelo Ball is how they're going to do. So I, but I'm happy, I'm happy they got number one. That's pretty cool.

Do you want more, if they go LaMelo, would you want more LaVar Ball in your life? No. You know, the concern is that you know steph curry said he wouldn't play in minnesota that's why david khan drafted ricky rubio and johnny flynn ahead of him i don't know anthony edwards has already said he'd play in minnesota uh but uh lamello does pass and i do like passers. I can't tell. I can't tell what kind of player he should be. 6'7".

Tall passers. Can I try out a couple lines on you? Because I was thinking, I go, what would Craig be doing right now on the 1 a.m.? Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead. You know how I forget things.

I want to hear this. I just want to know, Raptors, Celtics, who you're picking. If Gordon Hayward were playing I would pick the Celtics I like the way they match up I like the different bodies they can throw at you but in the Lowry ankle looks like it's going to be fine Siakam only played in two games out of the four in the regular season I think it's going to be a small versus small lineup and I'm I almost feel like I'm doing this because I was so wrong about the Raptors this year that I'm picking Toronto but I really love the way the Boston Celtics matched up with them if

everyone were healthy I really I'm going to pick Boston in favor so I think it's going to be a really good series that's that's not exactly um anything new but the way they could match up with the perimeter players and have kind of an extra defender and change some assignments was really important. I thought to their, their success and the no Hayward thing, even though he, I think at this point is clearly the fourth best guy out of that group, changes some things.

But again, this just means they'll have Marcus smart to close games instead of Hayward. So maybe that's, that's a positive. I think it's going to be a wonderful series. And three words for you. Maybe it's two. Freddie Van Vliet. You like that guy.

I like watching the Raptors. They're pretty fun to watch. And I do appreciate the way the Celtics play. But watch out for Toronto. Noted. That might be the tag. I'm ready for the 1 a.m okay here you go all right yeah so it's 1 a.m it's we're getting ready to walk out to the 1 a.m you've had kentucky fried

chicken it wasn't great but it was the only thing available and you're you're trying to figure out your game plan maybe after the show or maybe heading out to the city that Friday. And it's a Luca highlight. All right. So you've got a Luca highlight and you and Gus are going over the lines and you're thinking, Hey, I've got some, so I want to try some out with you.

Okay. So Luca in transition, he finishes and Craig Gilborn's on the desk saying Luca, that S car go. Anything that anything French is going to be good. So I like that. Trading places. Remember that at the end where Dan Aykroyd is outside? I don't remember that. I just like the way it sounds. Okay. I thought you were going to say spoiler alert trading places. I haven't seen it.

You got so excited. Okay. How about this one? This could be you mid 90s this is topical culturally relevant at the time so luca finishes over somebody and you go twice as long as a man some men are longer than others braveheart oh movie reference remember the spear yeah yeah you're naming you're naming movies that i don't i i know it's just that um can't you reference casablanca i can't you stay i wish people could see the look on you the disdain on your face for like oh nine you're you were an anchor, Rosillo, you'd be 90s movie reference guy. Okay, well, you know, maybe we get you on the deuce on a Tuesday, but you know. They're not booing. They're saying, let me see.

Where'd you go? I'm right here. Kyle laughed. Okay. So he was laughing. You're on a roll right now so kyle's screen came up oh i see i see yeah uh where are you are you in manhattan beach or are you in uh los angeles hollywood i'm in manhattan beach yeah okay i like right here have you ever thought of

putting something on the back wall i didn't put anything on the back wall like you know just some kind of painting or i have jerseys i have a bunch of jerseys that are ready to go this is a new place here and i am waiting for you know they tell you when you buy something new that they're going to be right over after the stagers leave to fix some of the do a little touch-up little touch-up. I walked around this place, I think three months ago now and walked around with the contractor and did different tape. There's blue tape all over my house. It's been there for three months. So a couple of friends, I'm a pretty isolated guy. You can understand that. A couple of friends have come over and said, Hey, you've had this blue tape up here for about three months. I go, I do. I go,

I don't want to lose track of what we did three months ago. So there's still some stuff that needs to be done. You got good parking down there? You got your own couple spots there? Yeah, great parking. I actually lucked out. Not great parking in this town. And I have to tell you, I'm one of the lucky ones. Yeah, you're smart. You're an investor, I can tell. Craig Knows is the original light beer. Miller Lite has always been there to bring people together through Miller Time. But in a world where you can't always be with your people, Miller Time might be a moment on a Zoom call,

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are enjoying Miller Time this summer, you can have the original Lite beer delivered by going to millerlite.com forward slash RR and find the delivery options near you. Celebrate responsibly, Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Okay, quickly, let me ask a couple of a couple subjects do you take if you're the

wolves and you keep the pick who do you take anthony edwards lamello ball go ahead oh man um i'd probably go anthony edwards i understand all the pro lamello stuff i do what he could be at that size the passing or whatever but right i i also can't get some of those australian games out of my head and i do i remember asking somebody with the lakers they go hey is the lavar stuff a little overrated you know is it really like media created it's not that big of a deal and the guy was like no it actually kind of sucks kind of sucks to deal with on a regular basis i mean yeah i think he's now he'll have shifted his attention to lamello because he's the potential number one pick so i know it's been mentioned before but he's lavar is the father is

what kind of parent raises two children to shoot from the wrong side of their head i mean he's a little weird what is that that's undisciplined again but you know what he'd tell you he would just say i'm gonna have two kids who may be going the top two okay great and i and i know i i like lonzo they're gonna trade him you know they're gonna pelicans are gonna trade him so whatever breaking news is that sourced or is that just your – because I don't – we could change the whole topic. I've heard rumors that they're going to trade him. And I think he's improved his shot, obviously. And he's also a good defender, and I like him.

Yeah, I don't know who the Wolves are going to take. I love Cat. DeAngelo Russell is an interesting player. I'm a little – I think – I can't remember if I told you this or somebody else. You know, the Warriors got rid of him. I love DeAngelo. I hope – I can't remember if I told you this or somebody else. You know, the Warriors got rid of him. I love D'Angelo. I don't want anyone – he struggles on defense. He does.

But I do a joke that I couldn't – it hurt my back to get in a defensive stance in Montana State. The way he's built, I don't know if he can get in a defensive stance. I'm wondering if the Warriors said, we cannot have Steph and D'Angelo as a backcourt defensively. They'll break down the defense too much. We've got to get rid of him. But that's why I love Josh Okogie.

And if they do make a trade for like a Bradley Beal, the other team is going to say the number one pick and Josh Okoge plus other elements. Yeah, probably Culver. Well, Culver, I want to like him. He is also, like Josh, a very good defender, handles the ball very well, drives very well, stunningly can't shoot, and he's working on it he's had to change his shot

and his free throw percentage was atrocious so it's early i just don't understand it ryan when you can when guys like us can shoot i don't know how these guys you know i i assume i mean i don't know if you could shoot my dad was a a better shooter than I was, but I was all right. But I like to just kind of... Are we talking about me right now? A lot of guys call me the 6'2 white KG. Oh, you yell the line or what? No, I could play the one.

I could play the five. What do you guys need me to do? I'll set my toolbox down. All right. I may use this today, may not. All right. We're going to save the mallet for next week. How tall are you? 6'2 two what did you average in high school oh these are bad numbers

uh okay i i got hurt my junior year and then out of spite didn't go back out and held a grudge against the people for about 10 years okay i wasn't gonna i wasn't good enough to play in a good college so let's just put it that way. There's no mystery here. I don't have a good story to tell you. There's baggage, and it seems like there's things about you that I'm concerned with. A real attitude.

I had a real attitude about it. You seem like you've corrected it. A little bit. Okay. Back to my questions. Who's coming out of to my questions who's coming out of the west who's coming out of the east in the nba and who do you want who do you want to win the championship if you had your choice i just asked three questions this is kind of a a funny one because i'd like to see anthony davis get something where it's this recognition of who he is as a player.

Because whenever he has a bad game, it hangs on him more so than when he has these amazing games. The start that he had to game four was like, what? And when they beat Portland in that New Orleans series, it felt like he was starting his ascension to becoming the best player in the league. And there are moments where it is too passive for the rest of us. We want our number ones to be in full aggression mode every single time. And I think he's too reserved at times. But I also think it's because he understands the game so well that there are going to be moments.

I look at that Toronto regular season game in the bubble where he was pretty ineffective, but it was because he thought he was doing the right thing the whole time and it's a really hard balancing act for any guy that's that special to understand hey you have to maybe take a few bad shots and force the issue a little bit because you deferring to a three or four guy out here actually isn't better for the team so i wouldn't mind seeing that um i know people think i'm anti-lakers because the boston thing but it doesn't really bother me that much anymore i do like doc a lot with the clippers so that would be kind of funny but it would also be kind of funny if paul george keeps playing he can't keep

playing this poorly that if he got a ring that everybody would say well you know whatever they got a ring and you go well that's different i am worried about yannis in a second round loss to miami which i think is very possible if they don't get out of the East. We have a very predictable timeline with our stars where the longer they struggle with real playoff,

then we start to ask questions of them that aren't even legitimate. Like Donovan Mitchell has been the most efficient player offensively, and yet because it's older than luca it's not as exciting and yet we're not talking about donovan the way we are luca because luca is still newer and fresher and we turn the page on our nba stars a lot of times when they're not necessarily doing anything

different than just going out earlier in the playoffs and we all want them to and a lot of the guys by the way go out right i i. Right. I would like the Lakers. I used to dislike the Lakers because I root for underdogs. I root against the top teams. You root against geographical domain, too, like what they did to your people. I never rooted for the Chicago Bulls and Jordan except the first championship they had against Magic and Sam Perkins and Vlade.

That first championship, then I rooted for them. But I don't root for the favorites usually. But in this case, I am rooting for LeBron to win another ring because I just think he's such an unbelievable player. And I do think the Clippers have more talent. I mean, the Clippers played, you know, Lou Williams had a great game two days ago, and Kawhi was really good. And just one more note about the Luka thing. I am stunned on the last play. They called the timeout. There was 3.7 seconds left. And I told my wife, I said, they're not going to get a good shot because they're going to double team Luka.

And then he's going to have to pass the ball. And it may not get to Hardaway in time. And he's going to rush a 40-footer. And she's not really, unless the Jazz are playing with cutaways of Quinn Snyder, my wife's really not invested in any of the games. She has a type though, huh? I I'm kidding I just wanted to say did you I just I just wanted to say something about Quinn Snyder he was wearing tight jeans yesterday and some nice little tennis shoes I was hilarious can I tell you a side can I tell you a side note story yeah i was i was let's just say on the road and i had met someone and i was with

some friends so it wasn't it wasn't like a an isolated incident it was it was a few of my friends a few of her friends and and we pulled into um uh a bar and there was, there was a band and the guy, the guy shouted out as he looked over at us, as I, as I walked in with my companion, he looked over and he said something and I'm not going to say exactly what he said, but it was basically like him saying, Hey, ESPN, you know, something like that, you know? And, and I raised my hand, I did kind of one of these. And then the girl looked at me and she's like, why are you raising your hand? And I went, isn't he pointing at me? She's like, no, that's my ex-husband.

And I went, oh. And then the ex-husband came over, said hello. And then he came over with his new girlfriend. And she was identical to his ex-wife. And my friend goes, he's got a type. So that was a quick aside. I thought that built and i felt like i let you down a little bit no i didn't know if the guy i didn't know if it was going to be quinn snyder you had a quinn snyder story that's what i was waiting for i thought you were saying your wife thought quinn snyder was hot and from this angle right now you have a little

quinn in you yeah that's what i'm that's, that's what I'm saying. It's not true. It's not true, but it's funny because he's, yeah. But I, I was going to say, so, so they didn't double team Luca.

Luca hits the winning shot. I'm done. I'm stunned that they didn't double team him. Okay. But I would like the Lakers to win the championship because of LeBron. I don't know if they have enough firepower past the first two guys, Anthony Davis and LeBron, because you've got these guys like Caldwell Pope who went 0 for 9 in the first game. I mean, these guys are so inconsistent. Danny Green is inconsistent.

These guys are so inconsistent. And so I don't know if they can get past the Clippers, but of course the Clippers might not get past Dallas. And then in the East, I assume it'll be the Bucs, but I just think it's a great story. I'll be rooting for Toronto. You'll be rooting for Toronto. Okay, yeah.

I do like the way Toronto plays the game. I do like the way they move the ball and play the game. It doesn't appear to me. I haven't seen them enough this year, and I know Marc Gasol was hurt. I don't know if Marc Gasol has much left in the tank. Does he or not? I don't like him in matchups, which is happening to a lot of bigs. But then when you look at the West, you go, you actually need bigs right now.

You need somebody to handle Jokic. You need Gobert. This Portland series with L.A. has been a big series, and Portland's defense falling apart was kind of predictably what we thought would happen at some point and now I don't think anyone's talking about the Lakers because it went from worry the offense was so bad in the bubble the shooting was so bad in the first game to now oh wait they're 30 points better than these guys and even the Clippers Zubach he's there's there's these bigger teams in the west that feels like

despite the league going small the league got big again really quickly. I have one more Luka one for you, though. Are you ready? Yes, sir. Luka's driving. This is the last one, I promise. He's got the defender on his hip, and you're on cam, and you go. Well, it would be B-roll, so you wouldn't be on cam.

We understand that. B-roll, so you wouldn't be on cam. We understand that. B-roll, voice, he's dribbling, and you say, if he's even, he's Slovenian. Oh, okay. That's nice on the ears. It's nice on the ears. I really don't feel like, I don't think we could work together. I don't think I could be your producer.

If I'm nodding, I like it. If we're even, he's Slovenian. Is that If I'm nodding, I like it. If we're even, he's Slovenian. Is that what you said? I like that. That's your best one. I saved it for last. Yeah.

Oh, 90s Mew. The movie reference line from Mew is still my favorite part of this entire interview. So I'm going to pick, I'm going to root for the Lakers and Toronto, but I don't think Toronto is coming out of the East. Okay. Lakers, Toronto. That's good. I'll go Clippers, Milwaukee.

I'll keep it. I'll keep it kind of chalk and I don't, I don't feel great about it. I try to switch it up every now and then. I feel like before I leave you anything to update on your end how are the memoirs everything's going well as as you know the instagram is completely blown up everyone's talking about it and life is good i'm gonna come visit you manhattan beach and i'll give you some updates in person okay um not for do you have any requests yeah no i understand you're a private man do you have any requests as far as um cordials oh no um no it's either vodka red wine

um what did i want to ask you do you don't cover and again don't be offended do you cover the nfl do you follow the nfl or are you just okay no no very close basically you can't cover and again don't be offended do you cover the nfl do you follow the nfl or are you just okay no no very close basically you can't do this job unless you're paying attention to the nfl i mean unless you're only an nba beat guy but as far as podcasting and radio i spent more time talking nfl than i did in any other topic so can i talk about my vikings for one moment yeah please do they i was very pleased with their win at the new orleans saints in the playoffs they were they were heavy underdogs and they showed up i'm a fan of mike zimmer the head coach he got a nice extension they lost five to six starters on the defense and they had gotten a nose tackle free agent and Michael

Pearson he he's opted out of the season because he has asthma and COVID he's high risk with COVID so they're they have new cornerbacks on defense rookies and it's going to be tough my question to you and they always have a tough schedule They always have to fly out to Seattle and they never get to play Seattle. First game at home in Minnesota with no fans against the Packers. Very concerned about the first game. Go ahead. Much like your hardened stance. I have a very similar one on Kirk Cousins.

Oh, okay. So I think it's actually different. I think Harden actually is really good and maybe people aesthetically don't really like him. I feel like for every... Cousins was incredible in that Saints game and then them coming back against San Francisco and him throwing for 100 yards.

Granted, he got sacked I think six times in that game. That wasn't ideal for him. I feel like you have to support him. And in this league, you still need somebody. Now, there are other exceptions, certainly, but you still need a quarterback who can carry you to win enough games to get to the Super Bowl and win one.

I don't... Yeah, Cousins, I've fluctuated on him. I'm not concerned about him. He does throw a very pretty football. He does throw a very, very good deep ball. Against San Francisco, the offensive line got throttled. It wasn't his fault. The big concern in Minnesota is the offensive line.

They keep drafting people. It's hard to build a good offensive line. We have an issue with our offensive line. Cousins will run more this year he has said uh he needs to get rid of the ball quickly he would i can tell you what bothers me about him is if he is sacked i don't like strip sacks don't ever fumble when you get sacked hold on to the ball like rogers rarely fumbles just hold on to the ball when you get sacked i know it's easier said than done that drives me up the wall but uh no he's fine he's do you know how he compares to garoppolo as a quarterback do you know if the consensus i think more people would take cousins over garoppolo

for a season i i feel like the garoppolo thing is is finally turned to where even though they could have very one well won a super bowl i don't know how anybody watches garoppolo and can see that his own coach doesn't really trust him that much. That's what I look for. I'm a big, what does your coach call for you guy. That's the thing that I've evolved into. It took me a while to get there, but I'm happy. Do you like teams that run the ball a lot? You know what I don't like?

I don't like that old school, we have to run to establish who we are type of shit. Sorry, you don't like swe I don't like that old school. We have to run to establish who we are type. You know, you don't like swearing. I forget. Yeah. You do know when you run, I don't mind when Montrell calls Luca name, that was kind of fun. But, um, when you run the ball, you take successfully, you destroy the will of the other team. But think at the end of the game i just feel like the the reward of passing on early downs is too great to dismiss where i always thought one of the dumbest things teams would do the just old school i'm all for that mentality okay but when everybody's so hyped up and the defense wants to hit anything, right.

And you hand it off to run right up the middle on the first play of the game when the defense couldn't be more juiced up. I'm like, that is the, it's such a waste. I don't think I've seen any people really ever break them. Craig, we're going to call on you now,

which brings up an interesting point. I hope so. I'm sorry for the dramatic pause one of my favorite plays on offense is the screen pass love the screen pass because all that aggression is coming and then you just dump it off to the side i'd love that because you're talking about all that aggression coming up how do you exactly how do you diffuse that don't don't drop back and get sacked drop screen pass love it anyways i know you're a busy man ryan i hope i i hope i enlighten where you know hank lucetti uh luke driving to the rim at his anytime he wants the body control lewis lloyd the craftiness yeah lewis lewis didn't play for a couple years was in the cba then he came back in uh in 89 90

and played for the sixers and the rockets yeah so was that too was that too obscure in a reference obscure reference i don't. Normally, yes. But with you, I would have been disappointed had we not gotten something like that. Right. He reminds me of the movie Braveheart. I'm kidding. Okay, so listen.

I'm proud of you, man. Thanks. Yeah, and look, if Norby calls you, say, hey, do you want to get back in the mix over here in Bristol? And you're on the 11, if that happens, and there's some sort of comeback, if you want to use the if he's even, he's Slovenian,

I would be honored. So good. You're on top of your game, man. So early in the morning. Thank you, sir. Enjoy the desert. All right, buddy. See you, man. The great Craig Kilbourne, and I would urge you all right buddy see you man the great craig kilbourne and i would urge you people if you are out there and you are you're in the mood for some content go to mr craig

kilbourne on instagram incredible birthday toast to himself so you've got that going for you, which is nice. FanDuel Sportsbook NBA playoffs offer for all new customers is still running. Okay, listen up. Pay attention to the details. Plus 2,000 on any team in the playoffs to make the NBA finals. Okay, so it doesn't matter if it's the Bucs, Lakers, or the Nets. What matters now if it's the Nets? Plus 2,000 on everyone. They don't even have to win. That's just get to the finals. Don't miss out before it's too late. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app to get started. Be sure to sign up with promo code RYAN, R-Y-E-N,

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There you go. Still time to enter the contest. Are you in any of these contests, Kyle? No, I usually pick up around football season. There you go. Still time to enter the contest for a chance to get into the leaderboard series during the finals. What are you waiting for? Learn more and enter at

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See full terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Or in Colorado, call 1-800-522-4700. Or in West Virginia, visit www.1800gambler.net. Or in Indiana, call 1-800-9WITHIT. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet.

What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Kyle, you think you'll ever want to have kids? I think liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Kyle, you think you'll ever want to have kids? I think so.

Yeah? Couple rascals? He says it's the reason. Running around? I don't know. I don't see it yet. He said what? He said it's the reason to be alive.

But that sounds like some shit a dad would say. That sounds like something a dad would say. Yeah, I've got a couple friends that i've heard behind the scenes have said like does does ursula not understand that like this is what life's about the sacrifice your parents made for you that you have to make that same sacrifice i had another friend that after he'd had kids he had him pretty late and he said god i i almost want to write my parents a letter and go sorry this sucks um yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know. I think it's, I think it's pretty interesting. I love my neighbors so far. So good by the way on the neighbors, although we

had a slight disturbance last night, about 3 30 AM. I thought I was going to have to, yeah, I don't know what's going on. I thought my car was getting broken into and I went out there, but I didn't go out there to escalate it. It, I couldn't make sense of it one or the other, up or down, I had no idea what was going on. So I said, you know, we're just going to let this one ride out. I slept terrible, and then I pulled my back in the middle of the Kilbourne interview. So that's where I'm at right now. About five hours later and maybe a light movement workout, some torso stuff. We'll see how we do.

But yeah, the neighbor, he's got a young kid with him, and I'm getting along with everybody pretty well. And I don't know. I was just trying to make conversation and i was like how old is he he's like oh he's seven i went oh it's a great age and then full of shit i know i know i don't know why i said it that way but i i don't know it was it was everything that i hate about cocktail hour conversation and not that every conversation the cocktail hour is terrible was his next uh question oh do you have kids no he knows i don't have kids he's been living next to me and we we have a mutual friend so he knows he kind of knows my background he's not huge in his sports but he he understands you know when i moved in and then a couple guys are like wait a minute you know riscilla's living here and so um and by the way not to dismiss all cocktail conversation because some of it is very good i'll share one with you

on a vacation uh was with a friend and we were having some uh some day drinks and we were we were it was kind of a divey spot but let's just say the regulars were not afraid of the daytime hours and we started spraying the infield with some whiskeys and we were kind of looking at each other like i don't know like this could this could mess up the night like this might not be a good idea but you know we'll just we'll pace ourself and then we'll uh we'll see how the crew's doing and then one guy turned it down and we're like wait a minute what's going on you know and guys are kind of like what what you know oh you don't want anything he's like no no i'm an alcoholic we're like what like why are you okay like what's going on why why are you here at a dive bar in the middle of the day he's like like, Oh, he's like, I used to hang out here all the time. I don't want to miss anything.

It was the most, it was the most amazing answer I've ever heard. Maybe on any topic. I just, we were dying laughing. It was the fight. Cause it was so sincere. He was like, what? He's like, I don't drink, but he goes, these are my buddies. And I, I want to miss out on all this, on this good conversation. We're like, that's amazing. Good for you, man. So yeah, I, I dropped a, cause a lot of times, like if you had met somebody, you know, I'm just trying to think of, it's just how people want to be included in the topic. It happens all the time with different stuff, right? No matter what it is, it could, no one, no one ever goes, I'm not as familiar with that subject, so I will

sit this one out. It's just not the way life works. It's not the way people talk. So I don't know why. I'm more likely to go, I don't know what you're talking about, so I have nothing to add because there's so many people that I hear talking about stuff that I'm invested in that I don't know what they're talking about. But yet I was like seven. Oh, that's a good age. That's a good age. And then I'll like, I've even said like, you know, just before they become a jerk. And then the dad will look at you like, what are you an asshole? Like my kid's not going to be a jerk. Like, oh, but then I remember where I was at when I was seven. I started really, uh, I think I started really sizing the world up.

Remember my family, we moved. My mother was like, do you want to stay in the same elementary school until third grade? Or do you want to stay in the same elementary school until third grade or do you want to just jump right in i go you know let's get this over with i'm like i shake it up a little bit i'm like what do we get six weeks to go in second grade i'm like i'm good like let's do this she was like really i go yeah yeah let's just time to move on mom abandoned yeah let's not let's not look in the rear view all right right? She's just like, who is this guy? Okay. All right.

We got a few here, Kyle. I may include you in a couple of these. All right. I think I'm going to leave a name out here. Hey, Kyle and Ryan. I'm balding, an aristocrat, 5'8", but not skinny fat. Okay. Good.

One out of three is good. Um, moved into a new house for roommates. The beginning of August, my work tends to be a bit isolating. So I like to live with people for some basic human interaction. Oh, that's cool.

It's good for my finances. It's also that too. None of us knew each other beforehand. I'm starting to sense that one of the guys and girls are sleeping together. She's been here since mid July, but he's only been in the city for like three weeks, but mostly are stuck at home due to COVID restrictions, limiting the number of people they've met. On one hand, I'm sympathetic because of this. On the other hand, for similar reasons, I fully expect this to self-combust in the next few months, making the whole house toxic. And while I'm deeply disinterested in telling other people how to live their lives, I fear that at some point this will become a source of annoyance for me.

How would you approach this? I wouldn't have roommates. Um, do you, do I try to intervene? So I'll give you that answer real quick. Do I try to intervene before it gets too serious, risking that I could be wrong, cause of toxicity myself, or do I just lay back and slay the hell out of every, Oh, I thought it said, I was like, geez, dude.

Wow. No, no, no, no. Cause do I try to intervene for it gets too serious. Risking I could be wrong and cause the toxicity or do I just lay back and stay the hell out of everyone's way? Minimizing the toxicity I may experience in the future.

Yeah. You can't tell them what to do, man. It may be your house and it may be your finances, but you decided to have roommates. You said it's good for your finances. And if it's a co-ed dorm, you're running over there, things are going to happen. And especially during a pandemic. So I don't think you have the right, even though it's your house, to tell people who they can or can't hang out with inside the house. And even though it's your house to tell people who they can

or can't hang out with inside the house and yeah it's probably going to suck when it goes south but um i don't want to do six months leases yeah what would you do there kyle you kyle what if you were the guy what if you were the guy and the dude that you were renting a room from was like you can't hang out with sarah well all of a sudden you become that guy. Like there's, you're the worst guy. If you were, if you're that guy, don't be that guy. Which guy? The guy that's telling people not to. Yeah,

of course. Yeah. You can't, you just, you don't have really much of a choice there. You're like the asshole on one of those judge Judy shows. It's like, is this guy serious?

He's suing him for that. I would love to do the judge Judy screenshot where I don't have to hear a word. person says, and you just look at the two people next to each other, and you go, guilty. And just blink test of any of those judge shows and go, guilty. And how often you would be accurate. Somebody must have done that. Yeah. I'm sure somebody has. There's got to be an Instagram account out there. Okay is uh the j man checking in i'm 29 i'm dating

never had any issues at bars or meeting new girls my issues commitment i've been single for eight years now my last relationship was horrific age 19 to 21 man that's pretty young horrible volatile and toxic unfaithful lies and friends and families became heavily involved in relationship dynamics. Ew, dead HGs. I'll spare you the details of the breakup, but it was a 10 out of 10. Bad time. Okay. All right.

I definitely am scared from this experience. Fearfully, the emotional investment I put in, albeit in an age when I was much less mature and cared too much about the wrong things in relationships she was the hottest girl i'd ever been with okay man got it been there i'm routinely faced with the same cycle when meeting new girls i can't emotionally commit they become tiresome part ways i still enjoy getting to know new people the chase of a platonic interaction it is fun fun. That stuff is fun. However, I prefer the company to be temporary. To say I've revealed my fullest self to a girl since said breakup due to trust issues would be entirely untrue. Good sentence right there. I wasn't expecting that sentence to be that good, so I murphed it a bit at the end. I feel most secure amongst my

family and my boys, and I'm not sure this will ever change. Hey, bro, right there with you. I listen to you talk about 2002. Again, my worst year, the worst year pod. You can find that one. And I can't help but see myself potentially following the same emotional trajectory. I'm a far better person with perspective of my past relationship failures, and that exposure has been vital to my development as a person. Why risk anxiety and my own comfort just to follow the conventional

lifestyle of marriage and parenthood? My question, geez, okay, good. At what point after 2002 do you become comfortable with the path you've chosen for the status of your current personal life? What triggers were most prominent in your decision to be alone or is this something you merely played day by day? When you interact with new people, do you keep an open mind or are you always cognizant of the likely finishing point? Most importantly, am I crazy for trying to solve this now? Okay. There's a lot going on there, buddy. So, you know, you had a breakup.

It was really bad. You were 19. You were 21. Some would say maybe you got it out of the way. You know, maybe you got your bad one out of the way. Like when I meet somebody who's, I would say when I was was younger it's not like i'm interacting with too many people in their 20s anymore other than you know maybe a work thing from now and then but uh you know i remember somebody i hung out with was like oh i've never ever had a bad breakup and i was like all right

congrats like i didn't i didn't know there was some fucking contest here we're all trying to keep that stat line clean like like strikeouts or something. So I know, I'll share a little bit here. I know that the first person I cared about was kind of a carryover from high school, and it was into college, and she was coming up to visit me in college. And what I didn't realize was that she was coming up to visit me to hook up with my roommate. So she would sleep in my bed, and then I would fall asleep, and then she would crawl up with my roommate. So she would sleep in my bed and then I would fall asleep and then she would crawl up into his loft. And then that was, yeah. And I didn't know about it. She would crawl back down into mine because we were never, we were, I was clearly friend zoned,

didn't know any better, thought spooning was cool because I cared about the person. But that was, and again, this is a little weird, like a sports guy sharing sort of the intimacy of this, but I'm just going to explain it to you. So that, that was something I didn't even know was happening. I think it happened two or three times. And then that Christmas I was home on break and I'd said to a mutual friend, like, Hey, I think it's going really well. She wants to come up and visit me again. And I was really excited. And then the girl was like looking at me and she just put her head down. And she goes, I got to tell you something. The only reason she's going up there isn't to visit you.

She's using you to go visit the roommate. And it's been going on every time she goes to visit you. And you just, I guess, are a really deep sleeper. And I was like, wow. That fucked me up for a long time. OK? that fucked me up for a long time okay because at that point i was like wait this is how it works like somebody can do this to another person that knows that they care about them like it took me a really long time to not be like fuck this word and you know what was? It was a real waste of time because that was that one person that did something really shitty to me. Okay. And this isn't really insightful

other than you can let that one person dictate the next few years like I did and waste all this time. And then you go into every relationship after that damage. You just go, Hey, I opened up. It didn't work out. They did some really awful, awful stuff to me. And it made me be awful to people because somebody was awful to me. I was paying it forward with bad stuff. Like, okay, now I don't care. Now I'm going to close in. Now I'm not going to open up to people. Now I'm going to assume you're cheating on me, so I'm not going to care. And by the way, college relationships are stupid anyway. They really are. They just are such a massive, massive waste of time. But I let that toxicity make me become toxic with everybody else. And anybody that goes through the breakup, anybody that goes to this

kind of stuff, you will always, I guarantee you, there are very few things I can guarantee, but I will guarantee you that when you get over whatever you're going through after the breakup or that bad relationship you were going to be so mad at yourself for wasting the amount of time that you did thinking about it replaying it in your head we had another life advice that i'm not going to get to where the guy was like hey i got dumped blah blah blah not sure what to do you know i'm trying to get her back but every time i it's like no you're that's why the line in swingers is absolutely perfect at the end of swingers where their big mike is talking to rob livingston and rob's like look you can't everything you're doing right now is only going to make her go further away you can't think about her okay but the problem is that once you stop thinking about her they know and then they reach out and then

they talk to you again now i'm also on tv so i'm not gonna say that to be a dick i'm saying it to cut through the bs of that yes i've had probably more call back down the road to be like hey actually i regret this this or this because i've put myself in a position to be uh desirable if that even makes any sense and that's how I kind of just look at the world. Like, okay, hey, is this person a good option? Is this person a bad option? All right, this person's a good option. I'm going to catch up with them and see what's going on. So really what all the bad stuff did, and this was all pre-2002, this was like 10 years, nine years before that. And then 2002, the bad year and the failed engagement and all of this stuff. What it did was it motivated me to want to kick so much ass professionally because I was so mad about so many different things.

There was nothing that was going to stop me. It's cool, but do you really want to do it all by yourself? Yes, I did, but I didn't have to. I didn't have to stay isolated to be successful. I chose to be. So there you go. I don't want to do another one after that. So please subscribe, rate, and review

the Ryan Russula Podcast and the Ringer Podcast Network, and we will talk to you with Raja Bell on Thursday. Thank you.