The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Craig Kilborn | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: February 27, 2020

Russillo is joined by the inimitable Craig Kilborn to talk about playing NCAA basketball, hosting 'SportsCenter' in the early '90s, and leaving to host 'The Daily Show.' They also discuss late-night talk shows, the NBA, "5 Questions," and much more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's episode of the ryan marcillo show on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by state farm i'm excited about this we got craig kilbourne in studio just like basketball the game of life is unpredictable talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Just like Craig Kilbourne's career at Montana State. Bozeman. Shows up. Tall. Stretch four.

Little handle. Some, I mean, incredible vision by all accounts. And next thing you know, you're just not getting enough touches. You know?

Just not getting enough touches and it's time to go be a huge TV star. Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today. All right, let's do this. 90 minutes with Craig Kilbourne. I was once asked if I'd ever seen the movie Black Stallion.

And I thought, see it, I own it. I said, the most difficult guess can be the untamable thoroughbred. I said, have you ever met Craig Kilbourne? And I said, I'm not ready for that challenge. That was years ago when I was told that story. And now I feel like today, with Craig sitting in front of me, I am ready to tame that horse. That was beautiful. That was a beautiful introduction

you want to i'm going to tell you why i'm so excited to be here um in the past it was a natural i was known as a natural host when i did late night once they said that i i left that's all i needed to hear. I'm kidding. But I did. It was very nice of, it's very nice of Mr. Simmons. You guys are, I think, co-owners of The Ringer. You're the COO. He's got a little bit higher title than I do, yeah. And congratulations on the new Spotify deal that none of us understand, but we're excited about it. But I was going to say, I did his, uh, his podcast a few years ago

and I was, I was awful because I was hyper and I w I listened, I go, Oh, easy fix if I did it tomorrow. So today is tomorrow. I'll just listen to you respond. I won't segment produce. Do you want to segment produce? Are you, are you a creative type? Like on air guys are either inspired by those around them and they follow a lead. And then there's others that are control freaks. I was a control freak. I was told, I was told I was a control person. There's no freak over here. Uh, yeah, we don't like to use those words anymore. I used to do a joke that I, the only reason I want to be in control is because when wrong decisions are being made, I want to be the one making them. But no, I thought if I had four good stories and we don't get to them, what a waste.

But podcasts are loose and there will be interesting things said, but still there might be some stories left out, but that's fine. You have four. So you're telling me you have four stories you would like to do today. No, no, no, no. That's not true. In late night,

we would have at least four good areas to talk to and some to talk about topics. And sometimes it was simply like with Mimi Rogers, she loves mustard and puts it on everything. That's not a story. So we would just talk about that, you know? Yeah. You know, I've always wondered, cause I would, and you know, I'm getting a little up there where you go, okay. You know, I never ended up on any of the shows. Like when Van Pelt went on Letterman, when he and I were co-hosting together,

he, he should have gone on Letterman. He, he like, even though I was part of the radio show, that's a solo deal, but you start going, Hey, maybe year 10, can I get on Kimmel? You know, maybe Carson, you know? But I don't know that I'd be good. I don't know that I'd be good as a guest. How can you figure out how to like pull because I imagine you have these segment producers that would say to the person out back and be like, Hey, do you have anything? Be like, Oh, let me tell the cuba story well when i was on letterman uh a few times i was told he loves stories so i had some really good stories that i worked on they were true and then you embellish them and he loves that but i was also told sometimes that if you're a really good host you're not a good guest because you're not in control, which goes back to what you said. But the point is, it was an easy, I felt like I may have

traumatized a few listeners a few years ago because I was hyper, not good. But for me, it was an easy fix. And I'm going to do two compliments to Bill, your co-owner. You know, Letterman did the Oscars and they never let him come back and fix it. But Bill has invited me back to Remedy. Isn't that beautiful?

Yeah, but the amount of prep, that's why you're so good that you would go back and listen to yourself with Bill. I didn't listen to it. I listened to five seconds and said I'm hyper, I know how to fix it. Done. Yeah. Can I start, can I start here? Yeah. I had one other joke about Bill. I just wanted to tell you, go ahead. I'm going to get to it. Okay. I promise. When you watch the Timberwolves, that's your team. Yeah. And you see a Carl Anthony Towns. How much of, how much of a younger Craig Yeah. And you see a Carl Anthony towns. How much of,

how much of a younger Craig Kilbourne do you see in Carl Anthony towns? And I'm not even talking game, perhaps more personality. I don't know. He, I don't know. He's, he's,

uh, he's, he's, uh, I loved it when Calipari said, uh, Carl comes from a different childhood background than Jimmy Butler because, you Jimmy Butler was thrown out of the house yeah he was sleeping in his car for a little while he was thrown out of the house and was adopted and then and then Carl had these loving

parents and you know it's like it's like Cal didn't want the loving parents kid i mean anyways i think it's if if my dad had hit me with a switch like adrian peterson's dad did i would have played a couple years in the nba and i'm kidding i'm kidding sort of kind of do you remember what were the recruitment stories like to montana state um first uh when you get on a list when you're a good high school player when you get on a list, when you're a good high school player. So I was on a list of good high school players. And how good were you in high school? I mean, to play...

I mean... How many did you get? Do you know how much, like, what'd you score a game? Well, I was somewhat of a, somewhat of an early bloomer where I started playing basketball in second grade. And I could, I was watching my, they had basketball in fifth grade. They didn't have basketball in second grade, but

I'd go to watch my brother's practice in fifth grade. He was three years ahead of me. And I was dribbling on the sideline watching practice. And the coach said, why are you dribbling with your left hand? Are you left-handed? And I said, no, I can already, already dribble with my right. Just working on my left hand. That was in second second grade i had read houdini of the hardwood foul the connie hawkins story and uh zeke from cabin creek the jerry west story and uh in i i think they didn't they didn't bring up freshmen on varsity back in hastings minnesota and some people said i could play as a freshman because I worked at the game in the off season. These other guys went fishing and camping.

Not you. So I played as, I started as a sophomore and led the team in scoring and rebounding 16 and 11 as a sophomore. Then I was 19 points a game as a junior and then 26 as a senior. Yeah. Who cares? You barely remember. I mean, who? Yeah. No two shots were the same.

No, I'm kidding. It was, I could shoot and pass. So Montana State, how does that happen? Oh, I was going to say the first letter I got was a junior from Digger Phelps at Notre Dame. You get on a list, and they just send out these. They have to send out these letters to let them know. They're form letters, but they need to let you know that we're thinking about you. In case you have an amazing senior year, we sent you a letter when you were a junior. And then I was recruited by the people that were in my living room was,

uh, were Norm Stewart from Missouri. Uh, but you and Derek Chivas, it kind of like you duplicate each other. So it makes sense. I knew I was going to ride the bench. I would have gone to Missouri.

No, but, uh, Jim Dutcher from, uh, university of Minnesota, Mike Montgomery from Montana. Who ended up at Stanford.

Yep. And then there was somebody else that was interesting. And then I went to Montana State. I think there was another coach that came to the house. But anyways, it was a fun time. I spent a little time in Montana, but I haven't made it over to Helena. Bozeman, Big Sky, Gallatin River guy. I went to school in Bozeman.

That's where Montana State is. Oh, Montana State is in Bozeman. Yeah, that's right. Helena is what, Montana? I think Helena is the capital. Helena is the capital. Oh, so wait a minute. So Bozeman, I went out one night in Bozeman. Helena is the capital. One, one. Oh, so wait a minute. So Bozeman,

I went out one night in Bozeman. Rocking our bar. I, that little strip. Yeah. Um, is, is right out.

Like guys were cruising all night. You just go up and down that little strip all night in your truck. Yeah. And then I went to, I think of EFW and play Keno by myself. I had a couple, a couple pops. Do you,

do you, um, do you drink yeah oh oh oh you seem you seem curious no i was just kidding yeah but i knew that was a night where i was like go home yeah nothing this is a weird all the young people out there drink you got to have an hour you got to have a meal and an but i knew that was a night where i was like go home yeah nothing this is a weird solo night for all the young people out there drink you got to have an out you got to have a meal and an out you got to eat and get to bed don't as i like to say don't chase the night chase the night don't chase

the night when you're single though your people have been known to to chase the the night um when i had first watched you at espn and I know like some of these things can be weird and it's like, Hey man, you were, you know, you were really awesome. Um, there was something immediately about you. You were funny, but you were sorry. I mean, just you'd go like, Hey, that guy belongs on television like that, that guy works. And I would ask about you. I mean, I'd gotten there years, years after you had left left i think you had left what 96 97 i was there three years there would have been 96 okay so 96 and a guy that we both know because i got to know him because of uh boston billy fairweather yep old producer yeah i'd be like hey what was kilbourne? And he'd be like, duh, Kilborn. As soon as he got there, he's like,

Billy, we got to get to LA. We got to get to LA. You seem like one of the rare guys that is greatest. And to be a sports center anchor back then was a huge, not to say it's not a big deal now, but that was like something different back then. It was like this almost iconic thing. You were my favorite one and there was always kind of this thing it's like are you funny and cool naturally are you trying to do the hey i'm now on sports center so i'm gonna be funny and cool and all this stuff and you were never it never felt like you were oppressing but it seemed like you weren't you certainly weren't satisfied um but it was a very temporary stop for you for other people where it would have felt like, hey, I made it.

I almost didn't do ESPN because I didn't want a sportscast. I just gave Ryan an exclusive. I don't know if we have to pause for that. Mark it down. Mark that down. But I had great respect. I think Bob Costas, as a broadcaster, is as talented as they get. Sure. And, um, I have an acquaintance who's

a broad, uh, sportscaster and he's kind of a hothead and kind of boring to me. I will never reveal the person's name. You don't know him. I'm going to say you don't know him cause maybe you do. And he would say, it's always about you, Craig. And I'd say, it's not about, it's not about me when I'm around Bob Costas and Ernie Johnson. I love those guys. But I didn't want to, I have great admiration for broadcasters in general and sportscasters, but I had this comedic bent. And when I was, all my whole life, my dad was very funny. My childhood was basketball and comedy, whether it was Fernwood Tonight, Monty Python. Later, it was discovering Bill Murray on Saturday Night Live, all that stuff.

Honeymooners, when I was really young, I watched the Honeymooners. And when I was in college, I said, well, there's only one Johnny Carson. And you can't do a talk show. So you got to probably do, and I like Cheers in college. So you probably do it, maybe do a sitcom. So I always had that kind of interest. But then I, it all kind of worked out in a nice way for me. From my perspective, I got to do Late Night, got it out of my system, got out.

Love it. When you're talking, like I always have this thought about agents is that we're both kind of right. Say agents? Agents, agents, right. Yeah. Where all of us that are on air, right. All think our agents aren't doing enough.

They're like, how do they not see my brilliance? Like, you know, are you going to fight for me? And, and there's, I believe agents could do a better job,

but then I think the agents look at us collectively. At least most of us think, oh, this, this fucking guy's delusional. Right. He thinks he's going to be doing all these things. What kinds of conversations were you having with your agents while you're at ESPN

and them coming back and saying, hey, look, Comedy Central is looking at doing this daily show and they may want to build it around you? Right. Well, you brought up agents and as a level-headed person would say, some agents are wonderful and then some are, are not as good and all that kind of stuff. And, and, uh, I recommend in reading for everybody is the, one of the greatest things ever written by David Simon. You ever heard, you ever seen this thing? He wrote his deadline about, about packaging fees or not. Did you ever see? Yeah. Yeah. yeah. No, when the writers, I'm a writer. Did you read the David Simon piece?

I read enough of it to know that once that had happened, it was like, okay. It was entertaining. Yeah. And I'm actually. And for those who don't know, David Simon created The Wire. Yeah. And this is where I'm a bit of a contradiction. But I'm not a fan of the F-bomb.

Oh, no. is where i'm a bit of a contradiction but i'm not a fan of the f-bomb but when oh no when he used it yeah uh he would follow with bonnet f bonnet or and it was it was humorous when he did it anyways so to answer your question uh yeah i just uh i had i i had a i'll kind of give you a truncated i i thought i, I thought I would be able to do a late night talk show and I was fortunate to do it. And I promised myself if I did it, that I would never complain about anything. And the, where I'm enigmatic is I, I enjoyed doing it on CBS was my favorite. That was easily my favorite show because it was a traditional late night show, but leaving it was even more satisfying because I'm less accepting of dysfunction and I'm,

I'm not addicted to the stage. So I'm like, I like being creative. So the Instagram is really enjoyable for me. I enjoy doing that. Now, now I know that people miss me and I apologize. There's not much I want to do. And I apologize that this may be, I may just do Instagram and

write a book one day, but I apologize, but I love it. Have you thought about book titles? Above the Fray, Living Above the Fray. And I think I had another line under there, but, uh, could be a manual, a guide to living above the fray, uh, leadership one-on-one. I read, uh, I read your interview with yourself in the LA times. Oh, sorry. What was that sound I just made? I enjoyed, I enjoyed writing that. I know you, you have a great great answer because it was a great question. Where you said, you know, if I had more time to speak to the young people, I would say this, but I don't do that. Yeah, exactly. So I feel like this book would be sort of making up for all the times you haven't been able to show up and guide anybody.

Right. The leadership. I'm not motivated right now to write the book, but, um, it's hard. I, yeah, I would, I would, I would think, but also I have a friend who is, uh, was in the newspaper business. Uh, he lives in Los Angeles and he works, uh, I'm going to protect him a little bit, but he's a real nice guy and he, he wants to write a book, I'm going to protect him a little bit, but he's a real nice guy and he, he wants to write a book, but he says the things I want to say, I wouldn't be able to work again. And they're nothing,

they're nothing terrible. They're just, it's just the PC culture. So it's, it's, he's just, he's just things he wants to say. You can get in trouble by saying level-headed things as you, as you may or may not know. Yeah. I'm outlined a book. I have a couple of working titles. For yours? Yeah. Would you like me to ask you those? Yeah. Okay. So have you written any books yet?

Start to finish? No. Okay. You've read books start to finish? I have. Paul Tagliabue said he would read the beginning and then read the end because he was so busy. Did you ever hear that?

The beginning, then the end? And then that's it. Yeah, he wouldn't have time to read the whole book, which I thought was interesting. I think that's actually terrible, then the end, and then that's it. Yeah, he wouldn't have time to read the whole book, which I thought was interesting. I think that's actually terrible. Like the beginnings of books are usually some of the best stuff to get you to keep reading it. Right. But I find a lot of endings fall flat.

Okay. Okay. We're not talking about Stripes the movie. We're talking about books. Okay. What are your titles? What are the ones you're- Two.

I have two, but I can't tell, but I'm glad you're here. I didn't expect to be here. Oh, you can't tell me? No, I'm going to tell you now. Okay. No one else knows this. Okay. Okay, so the first-

I'm pulling it out of you. The first title is, yeah, it's me. And then the other title is, I haven't decided yet. I could go with this one. Yes, it is me. God work on a third. I'm just kidding. Yes, it is me. God work on a third. I'm just kidding. Yes, it's me.

Yeah. Yeah, it's me. That's more casual. Yeah. That's like we're buddies. Yeah, it's me. Hey, it's me. Okay.

Is this a guide to like eating at El Tarasco? Is that what it's called? What's the place called in Manhattan Beach? El Tarasco. Yeah. There's a few places down there. We're going to get you down there. I,

I just, I'm not a hundred percent sure what the book is yet. Okay. Because things change. Okay. But there's a, there's no rush, is there?

Not on this. I have other projects. Okay. I'm loosely attached. Okay. But I would, I would say, why is my man on the board here giggling or nephew kyle

that's his role he just i have my own little laugh track to the entire pod but sometimes i'll be doing like really serious stuff like well one of the biggest problems with prosecution day six of the oj case and then kyle will just start cracking up and every now and then it's not timed out perfect but he makes you clamps on it now he makes you feel better about yourself. When you do your podcasts, which are very popular, correct? Yeah, we're doing all right. Do you do them normally here or down in Manhattan Beach at your house? Manhattan Beach. Oh, really?

I'll do usually one or two. Would it have been better if I had come to Manhattan Beach? Would the interview have been better? It's going swimmingly, but would it have been better if I was down there? I don't know. I feel pretty good so far so do i but i would probably say you know if we were manhattan beach a bit like let me let me show you around a little bit we could see cowherd i actually have cowherd stuff in my notes wait what can i can i ask you about because i see this look in your face no i'm trying to read you well i was saying was saying when I did something, I did a visual when I said, it's going great or something.

I put my hands up and Kyle laughed because of my body language. And they're not getting the body language on this. No, they're not. They're not. Can I say something nice about Colin Coward? Yeah. So I don't listen to sports radio like I should. Or I should not like I should.

When I was a kid, I listened to Pete Franklin. We used to get three WEP Franklin up in Minnesota. And for those of you who don't know Pete Franklin, he was a very colorful sports guy. And he would say he had a kind of gravelly voice and some kid they would call in and say, how come, how come Bobby, how come Bobby bingo Smith isn't playing for the Cavs as much as you? And then Pete Frank would go, how old are you? 12? Go pick your face.

And he'd hang up on him because he didn't want young kids calling in. I miss did that once. I remember a kid called in and he was like, do you have braces? And the kid was like, yes. And he's like, good. So I don't listen to sports radio. I also, but I can tell when people are good. It's just like a couple of my writers write for Family Guy.

And years ago, they said, would you please watch an episode? I watched one episode. I said, wow, this is funny. This is brilliant. A lot of jokes. But I only watched one episode. There are a lot of things I haven't seen. I don't want to upset people and say I've never seen an episode of Friends because that would upset people.

Is that true? Yes. I've never seen an episode of Friends. Just no desire? No desire. I watched Frasier ad nauseum. So I heard you years ago doing radio on ESPN. And I said, oh, this guy's good. I like this guy you seem level-headed good voice sense of humor you seem you seem earnest and honest you know you know i'm saying like you actually you actually care about your career anyway so what we were trying to get you on years ago when i was still doing radio i emailed you back and said i'm a fan you go you're not a fan well because and i'm glad we're doing this because i don't want there to be any tension but you're so used not a fan well because and i'm glad we're doing this because i don't want

there to be any tension but you're so used to when you reach out and radio shows like the people the handlers of the person will say like oh it's a no but you know tell like our favorite one with van pellet and i was like denzel's a huge fan right and then i ran into him and he was like that security guy was like what are you doing right get away from this guy which actually is is fair like that was me being younger and thinking like, oh, we did seven minutes together. Like, of course I'm going to hang out with Denzel. So when your handlers were like, no, but tell Ryan that Craig's a big fan. I was like, oh. But so we made a joke about it. Like Adam did a list of all the guys, but then you did reach out and you said, hey, I am a fan.

Yeah. And it meant a lot. Yeah. It was big for me. It was a big day for me. hey i am a fan yeah and it meant a lot yeah it was it was big for me it was a big day for me so colin coward i've heard him now i i really enjoy rich eisen because rich has a sense of humor and you guys know each other too and we didn't really we we knew it we we didn't really know each other so has he played that up more no no we were great with him and he he'd got some really cool timeline stuff out of you yeah we we didn, we didn't, uh, he was there when I was there, but they were, I can't remember if they were doing ESPN two or what. I, I don't remember, but I knew I said hi to him. I talked to him a few times at ESPN. I remember, I remember saying a few things to him, but I had already kind of checked out.

Yeah. On the show that you did with him, you had mentioned that you took him out for chicken and then asked him, but you were very honest in the interview. And then I don't remember. There are a lot of things I don't remember. People tell me jokes, funny stuff. And I said, I don't remember saying that, but I was going to say Colin Coward to me is very talented because he can, this is how I like to describe it. He will say things. I don't like LeBron's game. I don't like LeBron's game. You know, I don't like LeBron's jump shot. I'm just being honest. And he'll have dramatic pauses.

And the pauses to me, he uses dramatic pauses, which is, and I've enjoyed the term ever since my dad would talk about Richard Burton, the actor, or Orson Welles, dramatic pauses are fun. So Colin Coward has a gift where he doesn't need a sidekick and he can, he doesn't need anybody. And that's a gift. Now he doesn't, I think he admits to not having a sense of humor. Is that correct? He admits that, right? I don't, I don't know that. I don't know that he would say that. Um, okay. I thought he said that once. Okay. Did he? Cause there is really nothing worse than somebody who like just isn't, it's not not being funny. It's not laughing at anything else. offish. He offends people by saying, you know, this guy's no good. This ball player's no good, but he has to take, and I never enjoyed that as a sportscaster when I was in local TV in Monterey.

They said, okay, you have to, it's the Bay Bridge Series, the A's and the Giants. You have to pick someone to win this. I said, no, no, I don't want to pick because I don't want to be wrong. I'm not into being wrong. And they said, no, no, it doesn't matter. The audience wants to hear Craig's picks. It's fun. But you didn't. I ended up picking. I said, okay. I probably couched it.

I'm picking the A's, but man, Giants. My dad loved Willie Mays. So win-win either way. I don't know what I said. Too close to call. Cal Hurd. This is why we even brought it up. Because he was like, hey, he was, he goes, he didn't have any money when he first started working at espn i was like where where are you getting

these details he goes oh yeah he had the same brown jacket he's like he was making like 27 grand a year and i go i don't think he was making 27 grand a year his first year at espn so i pushed back a little bit but you lit up about that brown jacket just now well i don't know it went to something else which is he's talking about on air right yeah okay he said your wardrobe was limited i'm saying yeah uh which is a which is uh i um in i do the tangents where i have five comments here, but when I was in Montana State, I wrote a thumbnail sketch on the ball, my teammates. And one guy was Phil Lair, who was injured out for the year. And I said, sitting on the bench will tax his wardrobe because Phil was not a fashion play.

Now, what's interesting. That's a great line for a college kid. Yes. What's interesting is i have a couple thoughts i thought initially he colin coward was saying i wore the same outfit to work every day and on that there was a time in local tv in monterey and also at the Daily Show sometimes, I would just wear sweats and a shirt because I wanted to work. And it goes back to the movie, The Fly, Brundle Fly with Jeff Goldblum. And he's a scientist and he'd open the closet every morning and said, I'm not spending any creativity on my

outfit. He'd have 10 khakis and 10 blue shirts. He'd wear the same thing every day. So that creative, he didn't have to say, what should wear today don't waste any thought on that does that make sense you know what i'm saying in the movie i know what you're talking about because the movie and then sam hinkey said he does the same exact thing identical blazers because i don't want to use yes i'm gonna get out of the way so so there were times where i'm really actually into clothes, but I would, I would basically in my life, sometimes not waste energy on it. So when I would walk into work, I would, might wear the same sweats or, and then a different shirt and there's hunker down as far as on camera. I think it was an olive jacket that looked Brown on the air, but I took it. I'll do that.

No, I, it's a, it's a great jacket I had from local TV in Monterey, but we didn't, they didn't provide us with clothes until maybe my second year. You know, I was doing makeup myself the whole time. In at ESPN. They finally got makeup, but not for the 2am show. So if I looked like a bronze God, it was because i was taking on too much makeup and doing it quickly and and uh but yeah he's he's probably 100 right i didn't i didn't uh they didn't provide did they provide you with wardrobe not me i mean look i was on radio but yeah i mean the sports

center people had wardrobe but you know seriously if you get five grand as a male, and I mean, we know how suits can, I mean, that might not even be a blazer for you today. Right. The nineties, you know, maybe a nice Joseph Abood, maybe, maybe something from Marshall's that's been maybe a Ralph Lauren, but certainly not purple label. Right. And, and my, I call her my wife but uh my longtime girlfriend was is both an interior designer and she does costuming she does she does costumes she she makes for tv and film yeah yeah well for mostly commercials but she also uh rod stewart and his band she gets to she does that you know she's great but she's a rowdy guys, huh? Watch, back off. But... I don't know that I could ever go out with my dad drinking and start fighting people,

but I kind of respect him. Well, actually, Rod's a sweet man. He's a sweet man. I didn't, I wasn't assuming anything. I don't want to say, I don't want to say anything about the son, but Rod's a sweet man. But once you've had, I'm a tall guy and, you know, we have crooked shoulders and stuff. And I can still dunk. I'm a tall guy and we have crooked shoulders and stuff. And I can still dunk.

But what happened is she gets tailored suits and shirts for me. And once you have been exposed to that, it's a joy. You can't, you know. And most of us aren't built like mannequins. Right. Yeah. The first tailored shirt, I remember. So if that was it from Colin Coward, I wanted something like, I like to get under the skin of somebody everybody is but no one really cares honestly though the suit thing and i don't want to make it awkward here because now i i regret using the f-bomb we'll leave that

out no no you can't i'm just i don't want to do it around you i don't want to do yeah that's fine i'm glad you told me it's a it's a it's a uh i have this funny joke where one of my writer friends and my favorite people in the world are writers you're a writer i'm a writer it's fun writing creating and and my friends from the old show uh alex sulkin by the way uh i was dming with him yesterday and i apologize for not mentioning your name earlier alec um he did the movie ted ted too very nice house he has a very nice house because of the movie is that what you're Very nice house. He has a very nice house. Cause of the movie. Is that what you're saying? Yes. And I want to, I want to tell him, but I didn't tell him. I want

to say, yeah, you have a nice house. Uh, you should see the guy who wrote police Academy. Holy buckets. Anyways. But, um, and Julius sharp and Mike Gibbons and these guys, they're great. Uh, but, um, uh, wait, what were you talking about? I had a point on my writer friends. Uh, wait, what were you talking about? I had a point on my writer friends. Well, the, the part that's always like when I was talking to a couple of people, I was like, yep, you know, I'm getting Kilborn on. And then I didn't want to be repetitive like everybody else. You know, I mean, some of this is like, Hey, tell me about the ESPN and the transition, but we already kind of knew that and hearing about you, that you were, you were over the sports and the thing I knew the late, late deal was what you wanted. And I've also heard why you said like, look, I'm good. Like it became political,

it became observational. I think people are obsessed with you being a guy that's on air, was so great at it. And then moving on that, I feel like you've been asked that question before, but then people are always like, well, how can he just do this and never work? That's what's weird. And it feels a little personal. You mean, you mean like, yeah, like satisfied wise or satisfaction or monetarily, monetarily, everything. Yeah. And I'm like, I feel uncomfortable even, but it seems to always be like the number one thing. He just is done and doesn't have to work anymore. I like conclusions. I knew when I left, I, I set the bar low. I called it early retirement because I knew I only really wanted to do one

thing and it was something scripted with my sensibility. Okay. There are different characters in the white collar world that I could play in my sleep. One of them, I'm going to give you an exclusive. I would love to play, you remember Shatner on Boston Legal. You have a little paunch, you wear too much cologne. I want people to tune in and say oh did he let himself go but he hasn't yeah i'm not aging yeah i tried i look i mean come on i mean it is the genetics i don't know what it is but um um yeah so i i and then financially i uh california real estate is very good i've i i don't think i have an extravagant lifestyle but i don't it seems extravagant on instagram well you can do it the right way you you can you can live the right if you have

good taste you can listen to miles davis you can have a i do have a night i i do like pre-war architecture so i've had a 1927 house which war the world war 1940 okay pre-war they built in the 20s and 30s these are the house the homes that i like and i had one in the hills 19 uh 29 and then i have one now that's 1923 and I have a little place in the desert and it's, uh, it's enjoyable. And you're a big desert guy. It's, it's, uh, as my brother likes to say, your blood pressure plummets. Not that my blood pressure is high in town. I, um, yeah, I just thought of something funny, but, um, is this where you want to get in your second bill simmons no oh bill simmons no i was going to say um congratulations to bill and again no one really understands what what the spotify deal is it sounds great

but he's got he's gifted he turns out he. He turns out a lot of content. He has what we call a motor. Prolific. And he has a motor that only one other person in this town has. And that's Harvey Levin from TMZ. I'm just kidding. That was my joke. I will say that years ago, 12 years ago, this joke doesn't hold up necessarily.

that years ago, 12 years ago, this joke doesn't hold up necessarily. One of my friends, Julius Sharp, or Alec, one of these guys, Seth MacFarlane had just signed a $100 million deal, the one 12 years ago. I think he signed a new one too. And one of the guys says, hey, Seth just signed the deal. I said, $100 million, that's Joe Francis money. And for those of you who don't know Joe Francis,

it's girls going wild guy. It's the best, right? It's such an incredible, and with you, I think there's this part where everybody's like, is this a bit,

is this whole thing a bit? Here's the thing. I don't like talking about if I do something, I'll do something and I'll call you. I'll DM you. I'll, I'll email you. I'll let you know I'm doing something, but why talk about it if you're not going to do anything and I'm not pushing it. I'm just enjoying, I'm just, I'm going to enjoy life no matter what it was. I'm just, I, as soon as I did the late night show, that was it. That was my Super Bowl. I'm glad I don't have to keep doing it. Now, if I write a book, I'll only, I'll tell you things there. There's this, there's this great quote from a documentary on John Wooden in UCLA on HBO. He left Purdue. He left Indiana when his dad, with three things his dad told him,

He left Purdue. He left Indiana with three things his dad told him. Read deeply from good books. Don't complain. And make each day your masterpiece. So I don't like to complain. So there were flaws. Like, I'll tell you something.

The Daily Show. I get there for the launch. I'm not hired first. In late night, we all know that the host has a major influence, if not total and should major influence on the content and the staff. So they, they, they approached it in a different way. It was flawed.

I smiled and put up with it, scored on the air and got out of there because I didn't like the format. I'm not doing a four minute interview with Clint Eastwood. I'm not doing a four-minute interview with Clint Eastwood. I'm not doing a four-minute interview with Gisele Bundchen. That's wrong. That's not American. So, plus I'm not doing a political show. Do you know what I'm saying?

And everybody is political right now. I have a political joke for you, though, if you were to come back. Okay. If Trump were a basketball player he'd be the morris twins because there's two of them two you mean he's obese no i'm working on it okay no i didn't even wasn't i don't know what it wasn't an obese joke yeah Yeah. Oh. All right.

That one didn't work. I did like, I read some of you said yesterday, it was a quote about Kyrie, which I thought was funny. Oh, if I were homeless and you said you can stay with me, I'd be like, I'm good. I'll stay out here. Yeah, I like that. People thought that was a little harsh, but it wasn't a commentary on the homelessness crisis at all. It was just, I'm not a huge Kyrie guy.

Is it because he's a flake or something like that? Yeah, and I just, honestly, I think the Celtics have gone out of their way to not share a bunch of information so they don't seem like they're anti-player. Right. I think teams are so worried about how they're perceived around the league

and Boston and the city and the history and everything has it worse than a lot of cities. And I think they basically, as an organization, were like, hey, let's not start sharing a bunch of stories that make Kyrie look bad so that we don't look like we're doing this thing where we're trying to ruin a guy after he left us. One of the joys of being an NBA fan is you get to – it's not life and death.

You can be opinionated about players and just like or dislike. Like, I didn't like Adrian Dantley's game, but my favorite category is field goal percentage. Do you know what his lifetime field goal percentage was? High 50s? 54. I mean, that's amazing. That's amazing. Because those guys are taking long twos.

But I didn't like his game. You know whose game I liked who shot 48%? Mark Guire. Yeah. They were trading for each other. Yes, they were. twos. But I didn't like his game. You know whose game I liked who shot 48% for? Mark Aguirre. Yeah. They were traded for each other. Yes, they were. And he had a soft touch and I liked him at DePaul. But he also was a tougher guy than Dantley. Like Aguirre. I don't know what he was. I know obviously Isaiah liked him more, but. What's your favorite? I can talk NBA for a long time. I want to do some NBA. How about you do this? Yeah. Why don't you host for a little bit and do some NBA stuff? Let me just ask you something. Sure. Where are you from and did you grow up with

the team and what was that team? Okay. I was born in Hartford, Connecticut. That's why Bristol, I didn't have as hard of a time with it. And then I moved out to Martha's Vineyard. So I was basically a Boston fan across the board, but I had this weird thing where the first time I became basketball aware was 82, 83. And that was that amazing Sixers team. And it was Dr. J and Moses Malone. So you weren't following it that much in the seventies? Well, I was four up until- Well, you look, okay. We look close to the same age, but we're not. We're not. We're not.

I was joking. You look so good. I wasn't even insulted, Craig. Yeah. And I almost wore my tight t-shirt too to show off my guns but i did i had a different outfit i opted i had a different outfit on i always think it's funny because i didn't know you were built until i saw a picture of you on instagram and it's like have you ever seen like like ryan reynolds has a six-pack and then hank is there yeah it's just yeah but those guys are all smaller than me yeah like i'm not impressed by their six i just wanted to get down to 180 fine i think it's funny uh i mean if i really wanted

to spend that much time in the gym right and instead like if you were to do that and you're picking out sconces instead by the way you tell me whose time is spent better by the way we're going to talk nba you never you never have paused a podcast. Have you? There's no reason to pause. We could, but, but here's my thing. I want to talk NBA. I was just reminded of something where you can help and weigh in on a story that's good, but it has to do with weightlifting. Okay. All right. And the other thing I want to say, as I look over at Kyle All right. And the other thing I want to say as I look over at Kyle is people misuse the term name drop all the time.

Like sometimes you give it context. Yeah, if I have a good story and a famous person is at it, it's not a name drop. Right, you're giving it context. I agree with that. And the one guy who can name drop is a former late night host. So this involves Jerry Seinfeld, who I'm a big fan of. Friends? No, no, I don't know. I've met him a couple of times.

But if I'm in the wrong, I want you to tell me, this is about the category is weight room etiquette. I played basketball, Montana State, led the big sky in turnovers, could shoot and pass, blah, blah, blah. And Rocky Gullickson was the strength coach for the football team and the basketball team. Even though I'm an ectomorph. Okay. My brother's a mesomorph, you know, these body types or not. There's the, there's the, I can't wait to read more about the endomorph is the chubby guy. I think the ectomorph is the skinny guy where nothing really happens when I,

well, I, sinewy seems probably a little too, the mesomorph is perfect because, and you should look these up in case I get it mixed up, but my was a mesomorph so if he did curls his biceps would bulge and if i do curls i just get tired nothing happens so i'm slender that tom chambers kind of way yeah but you age better that way i bet you whatever dorf you yeah whatever it was again so so i've been lifting weights even though it does not look that way. My entire life, we had the George, the Charles Atlas book and, and, uh, kick sand in your face. And we did a lot of, are you still using that book? Could that be an issue? I just hike and walk, but, but I used to go to the weight room and I was, I was well-versed in the weight room,

even though I, I did squats and, and, and Rocky Gullickson at Montana State. I said, wow, you do your stuff. You do your workouts. You know what you're doing. And I remember what I could bench with, you know, all that kind of stuff. Well, feel free to share a number. We love that. I think it was 145.

I can't, or was it 240? I don't remember. 245 plates is 135. I don't remember what it was now. But if you threw in a couple of fives. No, no, I don't remember what it was now. Would it have been 240 or 140? That's a big difference.

It is. I can't remember. 140 seems now. Would it have been 240 or 140? That's a big difference. It is. I can't remember. 140 seems a little, but you're a long arm guy. Is that low? Yeah, it's very low. Then it wasn't that. What would it have been?

Probably, well. I would arch my back. Were you strong? I had a big, I had huge pectoralis. Had? I don't understand why there's so much presence

of past tense in this. But let me get to this. I don't remember. I'm going to say, let's just a 200 on it but you know it's a lot of the way i it was too yeah i think i did 25 is the four plates i think i did 225 i thought i did 240 but we can go across the street if i arched my back which you're not supposed to do well they do it a lot now though you'd be surprised so it was it was over i thought it was 240 but i could be wrong maybe it was 240 yeah i'm gonna put it down in the books as 240. I'm going to add your Wikipedia right now.

Bench Press 240 at Montana State. All right. I have to ask my brother. He'll tell me. But Rocky would work out. Rocky was buff. Rocky Gullickson. And then you do sets, and then you have a 30-second wait before the next set.

And Rocky, he would allow me he would come over and talk to me maybe to to uh relax during his 30 seconds he liked me he would talk to me he loved my scoop passes off the dribble he called me scoop because i would do these pistol p passes off the dribble and then he'd go back into his workout so the fact that he did that between sets, I wasn't interrupting him. So I knew I had 30 seconds and he was not bothered by that. Is that sacrilege to walk up to someone during their set between sets and ask them a quick question and make a quick comment? I think that relationship for player, athletic guy, you know, your trainer, not a huge deal. It's really on the other person. Like I, at the gym that I'm at, I'll be asked a lot of sports questions.

Like, hey, what do you think of the Lakers or whatever? And I'll have kind of like an inner clock. And then once I feel like the person's interfering with what I'm trying to do, I just kind of go like, I'm back to work. Yeah, I would never, in a million years, when someone is lifting, you would never interrupt someone while they're doing a set. So fast forward years ago, fast forward, I'm in New York. I'm doing the Daily Show. I'm at Reebok Health Center. Seinfeld is there.

We chatted once in a while about the finals. It was the Jazz and the Bulls. Why didn't they foul them? Why did they let Pippen dribble out the clock?'s going on here you know he would and so i your side film yeah i don't do sign film i do james mason i i do um christian bale and and ford versus ferrari i'm just oh man ferrari right oh man it's so good. So. Do more of it. So I had just gotten the job, the CBS job, daily show. And Seinfeld is working out with a trainer and he's standing and doing something in the corner.

And I waited for his set to be finished and I walked over to him. I said, hi. He knew you were. Yeah. He had already, yeah. He had already, he had already chatted. Right, right. For a few months. He knew you were. Yeah, he had already chatted for a few months. It was fun.

And I said, hi. He goes, congratulations. He had heard. He goes, congratulations on the new gig. Make sure you take Dance Dance Dance with you. That's what he said. And that was it. I just wanted to say hi. I was happy that I got the gig. I just wanted to shake the man's hand. It was fairly brilliant.

Yeah, things are pretty good for him. And then got the gig i just wanted to shake the man's hand who's fairly fairly brilliant yeah he does yeah things are pretty good for him and then a like a day later i'm doing i'm on a curl those curl machines i'm sculpting and he walks over to me during my set while you're mid curl yes i think i think he can get away with it no i, I think he did it to say, you interrupted my workout. I'm going to interrupt yours. And I wanted to say, I don't think growing up in Jersey, even though I'm a skinny kid, you didn't spend any time. I know weight room etiquette.

So I just shook him off. I just nodded and kept sculpting. I wish we could have captured the dismissiveness of the nod, by the way. Because now the point is, I will gladly apologize if I was wrong. I just want people to know where I'm coming from. If Rocky Gullickson allows me between sets to say hi, I can do that with Mr. Seinfeld. We're talking a 20-plus year beef here. It's not a beef.

It's more of a I'll admit my mistake. I'll admit my mistake. Yeah. I'll admit my mistake. So this whole time- I was a little, I was somewhat excited, somewhat excited that I got in the CBS gig. Somewhat. Okay. We have more with Craig here, including one of my favorite stories that he's told me, the Kevin Costner story and also Jason Bateman.

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but you become numb to it when you just, when you're in the circles that we run with, was there the first, wow, this is like a pretty crazy moment out a night out on the town from either a guest, someone famous. Cause like,

I feel like, you know, there was a younger version of you that, well, you mean, I don't give me your best famous of you that... What do you mean? Give me your best famous guy story that you can tell us. What are you talking about? You're talking about someone coming up to me... You had somebody on the show.

You kept in touch. You met out with them. I'm not sure where you're going. I have a lot of good stories. I don't know which one, what you're referring to. What's your favorite story about yourself? I'll give you one that's, I just think, funny.

Okay. That comes to mind. So this is not, this is not what you're asking for, but you'll like it. It's a, it's a, okay?

I trust you. We had a, we had a very small writing staff at the CBS show. We had seven writers. With me, it was eight. And,

but we had, we, we, they were talented. And there was a guy who remained nameless just to protect him. And he had the rare good-looking writer. No, I'm kidding. He did well with the ladies, I think is what I was told.

And he was dating a blonde who had gone out with, I keep wanting to say Kevin, No Way Out, Bull uh bull durham uh kevin costner kevin costner right sorry i thought you were gonna say maybe kevin brown yankees i'm sorry no this is i keep staring at kyle so uh so the guy didn't like that didn't like that she had dated kevin costner the writer so i was getting prior to him dating her. Yes, yes. That's my understanding. He was a big resume guy, previous job guy. That's my understanding. It's just because- I've been called that I've been guilty of that too.

So I get all these Kevin Costner jokes about how his movies are losing money and all this kind of stuff. All this water world jokes, all this stuff. And I'm not necessarily using them because they don't it's just they're forced and i just but but then was he doing this out of spite yeah i don't know i don't i didn't find i don't care i just i thought it was funny this is hilarious so then then lo and behold it was uh kevin costner's birthday and we would do celebrity jokes in

the monologue so the the, I used his joke that day and it was, um, Hey celebrity, happy birthday to Kevin Costner. He's turned, he turns 46 a day and his friends threw him a surprise birthday party and somehow that lost $10 million. So then fast forward, this guy's unbelievable. Fast forward. Yeah. An hour later, I'm at the Polo Lounge having dinner and drinks. Kevin Costner walks by. I've met him before. He's never done the show. And he says, now the show has not aired because it's going to air at 1230.

He hasn't seen the show yet tonight. So he comes by and he says, hey, Craig. And I didn't know that we were trying to get him on the show. He goes, I promise I'll do your show. Your booker keeps calling. I'll promise you. I said, no problem. And I didn't know that we were trying to get him on the show. He goes, I promise I'll do your show. Your booker keeps calling. I'll promise you. I said, no problem. And that was that.

And I'm thinking, let's hope he doesn't watch the show tonight. Did you ever get him on? No, we never did get him on. I did a lot of celebrity jokes and it offended a lot of, he could care less, by the way. He's one of those guys that could care less. That's good to hear. Some of the guys are more sensitive than others uh do you have one that you can share where a guy really was upset with you and maybe to this day yeah i'm not gonna i don't think i'll share it except to say i'm

there are certain guys um well it could be cathartic but i'll just say this he's very talented and i'm a fan of his. And that's Jason Bateman. He's on fire. Like, think how long his career has gone. But I've always thought he was talented. But I made the mistake of doing a joke. I didn't know. And it's funny because I was doing the Daily Show and I was out here at the Sunset Marquee for some promotion.

But I was staying at the Sunset Marquee, which is, you probably don't know, it's the it's the rock and roll hotel and it's very cool hotel so this is in the 90s and jason bateman who's wearing leather pants hot leather like purple leather pants comes up and says kilbourne you're the man i love you this is what i'm doing the daily show and that was fun and then fast forward i do the late Late Show on CBS. Jeffrey Tambor does the show for Arrested Development. Portia de Rossi does the show and says- Plays Michael's sister. I'm glad I'm doing the show. You know, Jason told me not to do the show.

I said, why? He goes, you did a joke about it. I go, was it about his leather pants? Because that's my only memory. And she said, no, no, no. You did something on your first show. So I go, oh, I'm sorry. So I look back and in fact, I did a joke, which I regret. And I know why I did it. One of our, we had such a small writing staff and this writer pitched it. I was doing these jokes where I said, first show i said

we have a commitment we're going to get the big names we're going to get to steve guttenberg's like i was doing these jokes and what somebody pitched jason bateman and it made the writers laugh so i used it and i shouldn't have you see what i'm saying absolutely so i apologize but i think he's very he's incredibly talented and i'm a fan and you know i'll tell you something else i don't i obviously don't care i'll be nice I mean if I saw him I would apologize and tell him but I can still be a fan without you know caring what they think I don't do this that would that would always be kind of like one of my things is is doing the show with Scott and you would be in the presence of this famous person and they would come by. But I was always a very like,

kind of want to get through the BS. And if there was something topical or maybe there was something that needed to be asked, like you have to ask the question that needs to be asked all the time. And I would, I would do some of that stuff. And I think it would make others around me uncomfortable. But my thing was like, Hey, there's a really good chance of faith. If I hadn't asked that, I wasn't going to summer with the guy. Like we weren't going to become friends if I did the nice version of the interview where it was, it was comfortable because like that guy looks at me a certain way. And it's, it's rare that just because you interview people for a living and now your location stuff, like you have, you've done both coasts. You clearly were always trying to come back to California and do all that.

I do like, I do. I grew up in the Midwest. I do fantasize about the, go west, young man, the West Coast. Yeah, I did it my whole life. And it's not just LA. It's the entire state of, I lived in San Francisco, Carmel-by-the-Sea, when I worked in local TV in Salinas, Monterey, Santa Cruz, the 110 market. I got to do a to-do list of the coast and just do that drive when i have a little spare time because you can just vacation in your own backyard yeah the t-shirt says out here was that a good was that a good story the uh the costner and bateman ones i love okay

but either one was pretty good i'm always accused of like liking you so much i i'm not getting that yet i thought there'd be more fawning. I did. You just are somebody my entire life you could do the least, and it would make me laugh. One of my favorite lines that you had was, I don't even know if you remember this, but it was a lead-in to a White Sox highlight. So you're probably not going to remember it.

And you go, you know, we all remember our first glove. Dad broke it in for you. You put a couple couple baseballs in it at night and wrap it try to break it in or maybe it was that guy that hung out at the park that wasn't married i i was and that's like you couldn't even do that today i was there was a a prominent manager in hollywood jimmy miller who used to talk about those jokes that you're alluding to. I'm not going to say the word. And yes, I just, the old guy that's down at the park who would linger. And I was at home watching that. And I'm, you know, college age at that point.

And I'm dying because I go, how? Because Scott Ackerson didn't do his job. That's why. How did he write that lead into a White Sox highlight? And that's what I think you can look back on it and go, well, that's who this guy was. This is who he was going to be. I thought I was going to sneeze. Oh, this is exciting.

Wow. This has been a long hour and a half. It's not even an hour. So back to the NBA, you like Chris Paul. And I read that yesterday. And I have a theory on Chris Paul. I thought Isaiah Thomas from the Pistons

was one of the greatest players of all time. Underrated. He is underrated historically. Yeah, better than John Stockton in my opinion. But I liked him because he was clutch.

And obviously his reputation, you know, Jordan didn't like him, blah, blah, blah. But there was a special on when the year that Iverson was the MVP, they had this special on ABC in a roundtable saying, is Iverson the greatest little man of all time? And I was like, it's Isaiah Thomas. And I think they were saying six feet and under. I'm not sure what they meant by little man. Which is funny because I don't know any basketball player that's around 510 that hasn't rounded up to six feet yes and thank god that panel that day said it's Isaiah Thomas the greatest little man I mean he's he could pass he could shoot he was clutch he was amazing

and now Chris Paul to me is tough as nails he's a very good defender. He does shoot a very high field goal percentage. For a guard for today's world? Yeah. And he can pass. And I just think, so obviously, I'm not going to compare the two, but I am. I don't care for James Harden's game. I like Chris Paul. He's a better basketball player.

I mean, he's a Hall of Famer. I'm sure James Harden is too, but I could... James Harden's going to make the Hall of Fame. I know that, but he bores me. So you haven't listened to Bill and I talk about the Rockets at all? Never. We are probably two of the most despised people in Houston because we've already done this segment.

I came out last summer. What is it? I just came out last summer. I said, I hope they never win a thing. I can't stand watching you. Yeah, it's... Well, yeah, it's just, he dribbles. It's just like, what's going on here?

So who are your favorites today? Like, who do you like? What kind of questions do you go, Craig? Like if you were going to interview a follow-up and it was just a sports interview of you doing an interview with yourself again, it was all sports questions. What questions would you ask yourself?

What a creative brain this Manhattan Beach tequilaquila drinker has i'm just guessing tequila belvedere oh yeah be yourself man don't follow me i'll you ever have chopin you ever have chopin no but i can get you a kilbourne bottle that says it on the belvedere bottle if you want you have is that a sponsor yeah we can get you we can get hooked up with the people of belvedere okay um i think the night i sent you my shirts off pic, that was the night of a couple of Belvederes. I just wanted you to know. I was like saying to my wife,

what do you think of this guy? What do you want me to do? How do you want me to handle this? But anyways, so let's see who do I like. I'll tell you the good thing is before the Timberwolves came into existence, for 20 years, I was an NBA fan. So my first favorite player, we didn't have a team.

My first favorite player was Walt Clyde Frazier. My dad was a Knicks fan. And then I discovered Dr. J. Julius Irving. Everybody thinks Larry Bird is my favorite player. It was Dr. J. That seems racist. It was Dr. J. Julius Irving. And do you know Dr. J's middle name?

You shouldn't. Julius Winfield Irving II. His wife, of course, was turquoise. These are the kind of things I memorized. Julius Winfield Irving II. His wife, of course, was turquoise. These are the kind of things I memorized. Julius Winfield? Winfield. Winfield, like David Winfield. William Felton Russell.

Wilt Norman Chamberlain. All these guys. So you asked me who I like now. If I had my choice, this is kind of weird because I didn't like the Kobe Shack Lakers. I thought Sacramento was a better team. I like the way they played. I like their offense. That Sacramento team is one of the great, like, fun teams that is only remembered by, like, hardcore people that were in there.

Yeah, because if people say, you know, they, they would shoot these three pointers, but in their half court offense, when you can get a layup on those Pete Corral backdoor cuts, I love that. So they would mix in backdoor cuts. And so I just, well, while I didn't care for the Shaq,

Kobe Lakers, I do begrudgingly admit that the Lakers, Showtime Lakers with Magic, is probably the greatest team of all time. I'd like to say the Bird Celtics, but I'll just say, being objective, I tend to root against, I root for the underdogs. I root against, so I rooted against the Bulls in the 90s. I root against, but I might, I like LeBron a lot. I have a little issue with root against, but I like LeBron a lot.

I have a little issue with his shot. What is this about LeBron's shot that's bothering you? Because I would say in the beginning of his career, but that's one of the great improvements. Well, he's a playmaker. I'm not a fan of volume shooters, the Iversons of the world. And he's not. He's a playmaker. And he is clutch. People don't think he is he misses some free throws but as far as his shot I just think he should tuck his elbow

a little more and you know but some guys are like so confident in their jump shots like Sam Cassell like just these some of these ball players like mark price and downtown freddie brown feathery shots but i i i do like lebron one of the things i think is is interesting is these other guys as they do all the dancing he'll just drive and people will bounce off of him still he's so strong i mean some of these drives still we're talking this far into his career he should he's in the conversation in my opinion with jordan is the greatest, whoever the greatest. I used to do a joke years ago that if I'm drinking,

I'll say Tim Duncan's the greatest player of all time because I love Duncan. I loved his game. But, um. But when you're sober, you don't like his game as much? No, I do.

I just, I don't think it's, he's an amazing player. He is. He's never mentioned with any of those other guys. I know, that's the thing. And it's like, wait a minute, what's the constant there for 20 years?

Because he doesn't, because in the last two minutes or the last 10 seconds, he doesn't go between his legs and do the gyrations and all this kind of stuff. People are seduced by some of this. Yeah, we love the wing guys in the conversation. And, but the one other thing about LeBron

is in that series against Golden State, the first time Golden State won with Steph, they, Kyrie was out and Kevin Love was out and it was a six game series. And it's the first time I've ever heard they're going to give the MVP to the losing team, to LeBron. He dominated so much.

So I think he's great. And I think I want him to win another championship. Have you gone to a Lakers game? He plays for the Lakers, therefore. Have you been to a Lakers game in a while? Yeah, I went this year when they played the Timberwolves because people give me tickets to the Timberwolves. They can't give them away to anybody else, apparently.

Was it you and Lizzo? Lizzo was there, right? Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Straight across from that. Do you know her at all? No, no. That was an interesting night for Lizzo.

Yeah. I imagine you were wearing pants. Yeah, I was. You had slacks. Yeah, that was fun. Are you checking the time? No, no, no. Did you just fade on in?

No, no, no. I was thinking. Don't you hate it when you look at your phone and then somebody's like, hey. I'm like, no, we all look at our phone. I do it to Bill all the time. He's like, oh, you're checking your phone now. What was I going to say about. So who do I like?

There's a guy that I love. It's very difficult to get players for the Timberwolves, you know, up there, talented players. So I like the D'Angelo Russell trade. Even if Towns and D'Angelo Russell, it's. Well, they're buddies. That's their thing. I understand. So now Towns is happier.

You don't understand. Larry Bird said, I can't get. I can't win a championship in the Pacers. I can't get these guys to stay. I can't get these guys up here. It's difficult. And I'm just glad that we have Carl Towns. He's talented.

He's flawed. He's going to keep working on his game. We're going to keep trying. What's frustrating is, is Jarrett Culver going to learn how to shoot? Sixth pick. You don't get the sixth pick every year. No. Clay Thompson was the 11th pick, but look, now we're going to get some picks this year and this is not a good draft. So it's very, very difficult. And you traded some picks in this deal too. Yes. So, but I thought of something and I bounce it off you. You know, you need a couple,

two or three superstars? Sure. Tell me about the Denver Nuggets. Maybe that's a way to go. Do they have two or three superstars? The way Jokic and Murray have been playing the last month or so, it's off the charts. But we did a little bit of a breakdown. I've been thought as an anti-Denver guy, and it's a longstanding theory that I have in sports.

New is really hard to accept. New, it's very hard for us before you've done it to go, hey, this team has never done it before. I'm banking on you to do this and break through. And eventually, like somebody new breaks through and does it, but it's, maybe it's harder for me. Maybe other people are better at it. But Denver, with those two players, it's great. But then I'd see like a handful of other guys in their top eight minutes and I just don't, I don't love it. I don't. And well, the wolves just took two bench players, Hernan Gomez, Juan show Hernan Gomez. What a name. I always kind of like Beasley. Yeah. I, I, it's now judgment time because they're both restricted free agents. We can sign them or

not sign them. I say we, I'm kidding. It's the Timberwolves organization. Yeah. But I can't imagine they wouldn't reach out. I don't. What's that? I can't imagine they wouldn't reach out just to get your thoughts. There's some truth to that back in the day, but I'll. What do you think of this? They do. A friend of mine. Do we extend them, Craig? Yes.

That did happen years ago, actually. But anyways, so maybe the Wolves can get some other ballplayers in there. And, and but as far as winning a championship, I think Phil Jackson said our society is obsessed with winning. And let me tell you, one of my absolute favorite players in the NBA for a number of years. I don't believe he'll ever win a championship, but he's still, you know, I love him. It's Dame time. Damian Lillard. That guy is so much fun to watch.

I love the way he pulls up. I love how smooth he is. Are you at home just watching the package? Like, do you have the NBA package? I have the NBA package. And let me just say something. This is dramatic. I have never in my life paid for an NBA ticket to go to a game. I've gone to many, many, many games. I get tickets. I would never pay for one either. I don't need to because

I like watching at home. I don't care what the price is on the NBA league pass. I'll pay it. So there's a little bit of a contradiction. See what I'm saying? Yeah, that makes sense. We do get a little spoiled. It's too much fun to watch the NBA league pass. Now, that being said, I was actually going to ask you, do you, I don't, I've watched way too much basketball in my life. Years ago, my friend wanted to go out as a Saturday night. I said, I got to watch the Wolves. And he says, you're the only one that cares about this game. And it was during the Randy Foy, Al Jefferson years.

They'd be in every game in the fourth quarter and then lose. A lot of post-ups. That was 20 post-ups a game. I was just looking up Al's numbers the other day. I bet you liked Al Jefferson a lot. I liked Randy Foy a little bit. But if you know, if they hadn't, they drafted... Foy instead of Brandon Roy. They drafted Brandon Roy

and then they traded him. Yeah. If they kept Brandon Roy, KG would have stayed, KG would have, they would have made the playoffs probably. KG would have never

gotten traded to Boston and won a championship. Yeah, but unfortunately, Roy's knee wasn't going to... It all, yes. It all worked out. But do you have to watch a lot of games?

I do. I watch nonstop. I have a lot of ex-girlfriends. Yeah, I can't. Tell me that. I watch a lot of Turner Classic movies. I watched Papillon last night with Steve McQueen. I'd never seen it.

You had never seen it? I've never seen Papillon. I just watched it for the first time like two years ago. Okay. That's a long. That's two and a half hours. Long movie. And I don't know.

Talk about persistence. Yeah. I don't want spoiler alert. You know know i know it came out 40 years ago but uh pabillon is a big deal when it came out in the theater i was telling your friend it's a silent l i believe i was i'm gonna name a few movies i i was telling a friend the other day and he goes you just watch this is from the 70s with robert redford three days of the condor you ever seen it i haven't seen that's a good movie uh here's here's one that's hey mark that kyle so i don't here's one that I haven't seen that one. Oh, it's a good movie. Here's one that's- Hey, mark that, Kyle, so I don't-

Here's one that we've all seen, and I think it's one of those, the IMDb has these ratings and everything, all the Hitchcock movies are over eight, and then if it's seven or above, it's good. But this is one that's 6.8, which should be a 7.1. The Firm, Tom Cruise, Gene Hack hackman you ever seen it multiple times love the

firm it's great right it is great yeah it really it's just a well-executed deal i'd read the book right um but the the little trick at the end to have cruise go in and you know whenever i'm watching a movie as you understand it's just two writers hanging out you're going okay what are they going to do yeah what are they just going to kill everybody you know that ending okay oh all right it's a little clever here and cruz is going to visit the mafia guys and then he pulls the old tax switcheroo on and you're like you know what i like that i was watching parasite the other night and i go okay what are we going to do here what are we going to do i haven't i have the i have the dvd i want to watch it at the screen parasite yeah i haven't seen it oh i want to say anything okay great perfect i watch

a lot i watch a lot of old film noir movies. It seems very on brand for you, so this is not a surprise. Dark Passage, Lauren Bacall, Humphrey Bogart, but also some of the, Chinatown is considered a film noir, Sunset Boulevard, et cetera. Back to the NBA, what would you like to know? Anything you want to know. Your game. Giannis bores me. He's a Your game. Giannis bores me. He's a great player.

Giannis bores you? Yeah, he's a skinny guy. He stretches and dunks, you know. That seems a little dismissive. I know. I'm just, I'm just, there are things that I, you know. I love that you say you were always rooting for the underdog, yet we're talking about charcuterie and pot of loafers.

That doesn't seem like an underdog kind of guy. As Walt Whitman said, do I contradict myself? Yes, I'm complex. But no, the finer things in life, but I do like, oh, I've got, I am. I like Josh Okoge. He plays with heart. That guy is so, you know, he's an inconsistent shooter, but he really, I like guys that play. Corey Brewer played with a lot of heart. Yeah, Corey Brewer's a nice,

he ended up kind of bouncing around a little bit, but he always felt like a guy that you'd want on your team. What? He made a play that I've never seen anyone make, and he was in the corner, and the ball was going out of bounds, and he jumped and threw it off the guy,

tried to throw it off the guy but the guy caught it inbounds and cory fell in the front row at the end line jumped back in to get a jump ball because the guy had the ball like boom boom boom boom it's just like yeah just different stuff that other guys if you saw marcus smart if you saw me in a montana state practice that was not me. I'm kidding. This would be a good exercise. Which player were you most like when you were at Montana State? I don't know because I was a little like Pistol Pete where I was stylish and I could rebound and I could pass.

I mean, I made passes that I joked that only a few guys, maybe Jason Kittekal could make. Just difficult passes. Yeah, I'd heard that. So if you were at ESPN, even though it was not necessarily a game, what kind of player were you? Like maybe a Steven Jackson where you signed the contract, I want out of here, maybe difficult? What do you mean by that? I was trying to think of you as an employee, NBA player analogy at your different stops.

So not just your game, but like what kind of guy were you in the locker room? Oh, well, when I was at ESPN, I didn't say much. I remember one of the producers came out of a meeting and said, you know what? You never complain. You never complain. You never complain. And you just do your job, which I thought was nice because I didn't.

I just, I wasn't going to resign. I was just going to. That's pretty admirable because I know that I was, I eventually, I think part of the reason I left the show was like, hey, all these things that you don't like, are you just going to do this for four more years and complain about it? Yeah, I'm not a big complainer. It's like. Yeah, I complain too.

Like when I did CBS, there was an outside layer, Letterman's Production Company, but they can do whatever they want because they own the show. So they're allowed to do that. Yeah. And I'm allowed to leave. There it is. You know, it's, I don't, I don't, complaining doesn't do it.

It's like, do whatever you want. I'm ecstatic over here. That's a really hard thing to do. And it's very impressive. Seriously, to just be like, I'm not going to complain. There was a guy I ran into, an acquaintance, not a friend. I say that because someone might say, well, he's your friend. He's just, no, I barely knew the guy. And it was after I had left the late night show.

And he goes, hey, that's pretty amazing what you did. I said, yeah, I guess a lot of people wouldn't do that. He goes, no one else would do it, Craig. I took it as a compliment. And you should. And that's, and I'm going to, cause I know I could do this all day and I have just an honor. How long has it been? And when does Kyle get to say something? We're just over an hour. We'll let Kyle ask, cause I was going to do five questions with you at the end. Is that okay? Every morning DJ has done it. No, right no i'm just kidding when you did la today which was one of the worst interviews i've ever seen oh when you were you were promoting the

kilbourne files and this is where i really i think it would have to be years of watching you where it was it was steve it was i think it was jillian and there was somebody else and they they talked over you the entire interview and it was unbelievable i think it's hard because you got three people and they all are excited they were very excited to touch the natural host yeah i'm just kidding but so this is where i was i was trying to explain to one of my friends about you because they knew i was excited to do this but it was i go i watch this interview as i'm sitting there watching film i'm'm going to watch break. I'm going to break Craig down here. They were so annoying and they were ruining it. There was no conversation. We're talking over you the whole time. And then finally they're like, well,

Hey, let's tell us about your show, Craig. And you go, well, you know, I have this, this sidekick and, you know, and they were like, how is she, what's your deal? And you go, well, you know, I think her job is to talk over me most of the time. Did I say that? And it was, it was just superbly delivered. Not one of the hosts even remotely picked up on it. And it was you. And it made me realize, like, this is the level that you're playing at, that you made

fun of all three of them to their face for what they were doing to you. And not one of them picked up and you didn't really even crack that much of a smile. One of the greatest moments of my life. No, I don't remember that, but that's funny. I know you didn't really even crack that much of a smile one of the greatest moments of my no i don't remember that but that's funny i know you didn't remember it's funny yeah you should go back and watch it so let's let's end on this unless you want to end on anything you want to do i do want to say one okay i'm going to do you're going to play five right i'm going to do five i wanted to say something about the nba so we have to accept the three-point shot right we have to accept that popovich doesn't, right? We have to accept that. Popovich doesn't like it. Looks like it's going to stick around.

I think one of the reasons I don't like it is you're probably a numbers guy, but there is a number. I don't know if it's 34%, but if you shoot 34% from threes and 50 from twos, you'll score more shooting 34%. So as a guy who likes perfection, I'd rather see a team shoot 50%. And if you took away the three-point line,

then guys like Anthony Davis and these guys would completely dominate underneath. I'm not in love with the three-point shot, but that's life. You know what I'm saying? I used to think it was a very outdated thing. Like, oh, okay okay you're one of those when you don't like a three-point shot but the three-point shot this was not the intent this

was not the intent to completely change everything it's like a foul right now the offensive fouls like we saw kyle lowry taking offensive fouls and this isn't an anti-kyle lowry thing even though people know that i'm not a huge fan of i respect his game while also being incredibly annoyed uh the entire time i watch him i mean he's not, Kyle Lowry's the opposite of Craig Kilborn out on the court when we talk about complaining. Like, you wouldn't even fit in today's NBA. They'd be like, why isn't this guy arguing for calls? Yeah, I saw them. But he took a charge.

That was not a charge in the way we grew up. Right. The goal wasn't to run and stop in front of the other guy running. Right. And he still was even moving on that one. And that's the stuff where I go the way the three pointer was it was supposed to be this extra thing that was a little bit exciting

and not it was supposed to be Louis Dampier shooting them in the ABA and then it got out of hand it turned into a monster the math guys mess it up can I end on just a final thing and then we'll do five questions?

Because the other part about that LA Today interview that was hilarious is Dee was like, hey, you know, you're doing five questions, you're sitting there. And you were like, yeah. And then he goes, did you steal it from a French guy? He accused you of stealing. He goes, this French guy, he did four questions.

Was that? I never heard. I don't remember that. It was unbelievable. I don't know. He accused you of stealing the segment in there. But I think the all encompassing thing, the thing, you know, and check out Craig on, on Instagram is that as you said, where the guy, the acquaintance who stopped you and said, no one else would do it. People always think something's wrong with you

when you do the thing nobody else would do. And that has become the fascination with you. Right. So it's, I like being, you can, I did, you know, creatively is the number one reason I just, yeah, the, also the late night show obviously isn't set up. Letterman's not setting up to groom his successor understandably, but I also didn't want to do, like I've said before, that comedy I lost interest in pop culture comedy. I don't want to do social commentary because I'm very pragmatic I can fix things

I can fix things but you don't want to hear my fixes I'm kidding but yeah so it was just it was very cathartic I'm just

I'm just glad I was able to do it but that's I think the lesson in all of this is that is that people would go go ahead you're excited right now

I'm going to tell you a story sitting in my i used to live in the hollywood hills beautiful 1920s 29 spanish i don't doubt it and an acquaintance came over and my acquaintance is moody he's a moody person i'm protecting him and he's a little do you guys know uh i was gonna say ryan gosling no No, no, you don't know his name. I can't remember the historical figure anyways. But anyways, Toulouse-Lautrec. He was a short gentleman who not nearly as talented as Toulouse-Lautrec.

But I just, I exhale. I was having my coffee. I go, God, I'm so happy. And he said, if you were really happy, you wouldn't have to say it. And I said, I break a lot of rules. And then I said, go fetch me some more coffee. Uh, but it's, it's just life. It's just, I found it easy and I'm just glad I like right now there's no stress in my life just being creative the only stress is uh i had a little run-in at the trader joe's once with somebody when they you know very minor oh you can't you don't have time for you can no i have time you can edit this

out and you can edit this out if you want to uh we're gonna keep it in i can tell some people go into trader joe's and they're just going to look around. They don't have a plan. I think I'll just, I'm not sure what I'm going to get. Well, I'm in and out. I know what I'm getting. I got my list. Let's go. Now, criticism of me is I do beeline it sometimes. I mean, I don't waste time. I round the corner. I'm ready to go to the checkout. And there are two people, gender's not important, two people who have their carts askew. They don't know each other. They're blocking the aisle. There's a small path to get through, very small path. But yeah, I might bump them if I go through there. If I say, excuse me, then I know they're going to go, oh, should I move back? Are you going to move back? What's going to happen? Oh, I like your blouse.

So I didn't say anything. I lifted my basket because I didn't have a cart and I slid through trying not to bump him. I don't think I bumped him, but maybe the back of my bumped their arm. Now we're talking. Bumped their arm.

But I didn't feel it. I looked back. I may have said, sorry, get up to the check. You're a big guy, bumped their arm. Now we're talking. Bumped their arm. Yeah. But I didn't feel it. I look back. I may have said, sorry. Get up to the check. You're a big guy, by the way. Get up. Gentle giant. Get up to the checkout.

And all of a sudden, a person comes up, but not an angry person, kind of a meek person. So this is a big moment for them. Excuse me, but you just bumped me and just kept walking. And I stopped Ryan Russillo when I was doing, I knew how to handle this moment. And I looked that person in the eyes and I said, I am sorry. Are you okay? She says, I just said, she, she said, yeah, it's, that's not it. It's just that you didn't, you just kept going. And I said, I'm sorry. I almost said there's an urgent care two blocks down, but I didn't do that. I said, I am so sorry. And then I have to wrap this up.

Thank you for telling me. And she walked away and she just saw leadership. She just saw Churchill. It's a big day. And she walked away and she just saw leadership. She just saw Churchill. And I went home and told my buddy, my neighbor, and I said the whole inner monologue was, we're going to get through this. I like that she stood up to you. Does anyone like that story? My wife will say I'm very obnoxious in that case.

You've probably just been around each other a lot. We got through it. And you're not married, right? You call her your wife. I took the lead and I went right up there, eye contact, and I just... That's a chapter.

That sounds like a chapter or an insert. I made a mistake and I'm sorry. We're going to get through this, aren't we? Yeah. Okay.

I feel like I made that weird though, but like the wife part. What's that? You said you call her your wife. It's one syllable. It's more efficient than saying long-term girlfriend. It is. Okay.

We're going to leave that one alone. Petite wave. I'm not allowed to say petite wave. I'm not allowed to say anything. I'm going to do five questions, but I want you to ask yourself one of the five. Okay. Okay. But we're not going to start with that.

No, we're not. We're not. Okay. Are we ready? We're going to have a music bed that's going to be produced five. Okay. Okay. But we're not going to start with that. No, we're not. We're not. Okay. Are we ready? We're going to have, we're going to have a music bed that's going to be produced up. Okay. Right. So just pretend the music is live right now. Do you remember how many total points you had at Montana state? No, but I did score 20 at the Kibbe dome at Moscow, Idaho, eight for nine from the floor, four of four and three-pointer. We had the longest three-pointer in the country, 22 feet. The ACC was 17.9.

The first ACC three-pointer, if kids want to go back and look it up, it's hysterical. It was inside the top of the key. It's inside the key. Mark Price was pulling up. Everybody's like, yeah. Giannis would have been able to take off. Yes. All right, 184 total points. Oh, you looked at stuff.

Yeah, I noticed your minutes went down from your sophomore, your third year to your fourth year. Well, you played three years. The minutes went down. I quit after my junior year to graduate and get out of town. Okay, do you want to use this forum to put the Kylie Minogue rumors to bed? What are the rumors? I don't know the rumors.

That was me trying to be very open-ended and see if I could get some out of it. I was mocked by some. I had a guilty pleasure where Love at First Sight or one of her songs was on DirecTV. It's one of my favorite Instagram posts. You just love the song. I like dance.

She's out there as a great edit. Right. Star wipe into her. I like dance music, even though I like. Don't be afraid of that. I like jazz, but I like dance music. I think you saw me play a little Holiday Madonna once when I was sipping wine on the Instagram. But some of the guys were mocking me for. I admitted it was a guilty pleasure.

You got to see Kylie Minogue dance. Look, the kids say slaps, bangs. Yeah. Knocks even. I kind of love the way she plays to the crowd and that chorus just hits. Yeah. And I think it's a little eighth grade to have your friends at work say, oh my God, you like Kylie Minogue.

Yeah, I do. I like. But when she was on the show, I know you're a private man, but I just I sensed I sensed tension. No. OK, do you want to ask yourself the third question? I'm going to ask myself the fourth question. The fourth question. OK.

All right. Fourth question. Okay. All right. This was sent to me by one of your writer friends that if you were asked to do SportsCenter again, do you know who won the three-point shooting contest this year? I just got nervous. This year?

Yeah. Do you remember? Yes. Buddy Heald. Do you have a good line? Because one of your writers sent me a line. He's trying to get you to use about Buddy Heald. That's just Buddy being Buddy, release rotation splash.

This year's three-point shooting contestant, he won, but he cut his finger, Buddy Heald. Oh, I see. Yes. All right, so maybe we'll table that one. We're going to keep working on it. No, no, no. No, Alec is gifted.

I used to say puns are the lowest form, but he's extremely funny, and he can do puns in his sleep. Just a pun guy, but he's not just a pun guy can do puns in his sleep. Just a pun guy. But he's not just a pun guy. No, he's allowed to do it, in my opinion, because he's brilliant in other ways. He was the guy that would come up with really good jokes in five seconds, and then he couldn't beat it.

It was the best. He comes up with them immediately. He's unbelievable. He's unbelievable. Maybe that could have been a messenger thing. Does he know that Tom Brady is going to not play for the Patriots? Don't tell him that. He'll be devastated.

Hopefully he won't listen to this. Okay. The fourth question is yours. Craig, are you most proud of being clever or being an incredibly nice human being? Well, I'm happy being an incredibly nice human being with no temper whatsoever. I just, I'm just, yeah. That's a great way to close this out. Sorry to get so deep on this podcast.

No, that's a good way. All right. True or false, Steve Levy took a swing at you at one of those Christmas parties in Bristol. That was Robin Roberts. I could have researched this better. You did a great job. Thanks, man. Seriously.

Pleasure being here. Can't wait to, whenever you need me back during the playoffs, let me know. Done. Okay, I hope you enjoyed that. I know I did.

That's something I'd want to do for a bunch of years. So, check out Kilborn on Instagram. If you like this interview, he will love his Instagram posts. Please rate and review, subscribe to the Rosillo Show podcast

on the Ringer Network. Talk to you next week or Bill and I every Sunday. Don't forget. Outro Music