The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Dak’s Deal, NBA Title Contenders, and Life Advice With Jon Kitna and Tim Legler

Episode Date: March 9, 2021

Russillo breaks down Dak Prescott’s $160 million contract with the Dallas Cowboys (2:20) before talking with former NFL QB and current Burleson High School head coach Jon Kitna about working with Dak Prescott during his time as QB coach for the Cowboys, playing QB for the Bengals, mentoring Carson Palmer, the joy of coaching young athletes, and more (11:00). Then Ryen talks with ESPN’s Tim Legler about his NBA career; winning the 1996 3-point contest; the ’95 Bullets with Chris Webber, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, and Juwan Howard; ex-player coaches and Tim’s interest in an NCAA head coaching job; the Brooklyn Nets and Utah Jazz as NBA title contenders; and more (30:00). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:01:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I remember times, and I'm not going to put anybody, throw anybody. I mean, there was a time that I played a game with a guy that was drunk in the huddle. You know, there was a time that a guy showed up, you know, late to a game in the NFL. You need to be there two hours, two hours and 15 minutes ahead of time. And he showed up, you know, under time. And, uh, and he showed up. Yeah. Under an hour before the game. And he started.

Yeah. Those are, those are weird things now. That's tough. Uh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I can't, I gotta go back to the drunk guy in the huddle. Did everybody know the guy was drunk? Did the staff know?

Or were you just like, whoa, dude, you know, you smell like rumplements. I'm not sure if the staff knew, but I think the guy was drunk? Did the staff know? Or were you just like, whoa, dude. You smell like rumplements. I'm not sure if the staff knew, but I think the guy was like, you know, that was kind of his normal. So, I mean, I mean, he was drunk and had close to 200 yards receiving now. So,

it was crazy. Okay, we can rule out the tackles and guards on this one. Okay, we can rule out the tackles and guards on this one. Today, we are loaded. The news of Dak Prescott's contract, what it really means, because I'm going to set everybody straight on this, and we're going to talk to John Kitna, who's Dak's quarterback coach, and three-point legend Tim Legler on today's NBA

and a little bit on his career as well. Loaded today. So here's the headline. Dak Prescott, four-year contract, $160 million, $126 million guaranteed. Let's give you some more money so you understand it. So four years, $160 million. He gets $75 million guaranteed in that first year. So that's $75 million in cash. Not a bag, but you understand what I'm saying. If you add that to his franchise tag that he just played on for $31.4 million, Dak in a 15-month stretch is going to take home over $106 million.

Now, let's back up because a lot of people were really worried for a really long time about Dak Prescott's contract. Now, I had told you here on this podcast in late 2019 that Dak had turned down an offer. So a lot of people are like, what's Dallas's problem? How come they don't believe in him? What's Jerry Jones doing? What's Steven Jones doing? How come this guy, how come they can't work it out with Dak? They had made him a really good offer.

Dak and his agents wanted a better one. And they were rewarded for waiting that out. Because the deal, when I told you about it, the end of 19 was a four-year deal. It was around 35 million. So I think we're looking at 140 million total and said he gets 160 million total. I think back then it was around a hundred million dollars in guarantees. You can go back and look all this stuff up because people started talking about what he actually had turned down. And then there was some gigantic numbers that were rumored that I'm not even sure were true,

but it was to my understanding then, and I made a couple of calls on this morning just to double check. It was about four years, 140 million at the end of 19. That would have made his average annual salary, easy math here, 35 million a year, which would have put him at like one or two average annual salary of 2019. So Dallas was going to pay him. There was an extra year step that was going on that they were complaining about. Dak wanted to be shorter. Dallas wanted to be him. There was an extra year of stuff that was going on that they were complaining about. You know, Dak wanted to be shorter. Dallas wanted to be longer.

Of course, they wanted more guarantees. And it was Dak and his representation's rights. It was their right to turn this thing down. By the way, Dak also got a no trade clause in this. And if you really want to break down the current deal, we can even hammer away some more points in that it's kind of a three-year deal. And then when that money's up, they're going to hit the table again, and Dak is going to get paid. But what definitely bothers me was that when Dak wasn't getting paid, it was what's wrong with Dallas.

And let's face it, there was some stuff thrown around there. It's like, why is Jared Goff getting all of this money and Dak can't get paid? getting all of this money and Dak can't get paid. Dak didn't get a deal done because of his demands and because of his patience. And it paid off. And it paid off a year after, not even a full year after, a year after it was an injury where people were like, oh, you franchise tag him. And this is what happens. What? You get 160 million in contract? So the injury didn't mean anything. The reason it took this long only meant that Dak wanted more, and then Dak got it. Now, in the Ezekiel Elliott deal, it was understood that around the league, they were like, look, Zeke's going to get his money because it's Jerry Jones. Jerry's just going to do it. You shouldn't be paying running

backs this much. I don't want to argue exceptions of the time the running backs have actually been pretty good. The Dalvin Cook deal looks all right. Christian McCaffrey, we'll see. Not early returns, but you don't write it off. But the Ezekiel Elliott one, so far,

that hasn't worked. It hasn't worked and it's not going to be a contract. I doubt anyone will say at the end of the Ezekiel Elliott contract, psyched he did that. But if you're an agent for Dak and you're looking at the fact

that Jerry kind of caved on that one, when I don't think Zeke would have gotten that from like 27 other teams, maybe 30 teams. You look at that whole combination of facts. You're like, look, we could probably wait this thing out because the franchise tag is so punitive and the cap number is so high. If they do this to you again, then maybe they're going to end up having to come up with some sort of deal. So, you know, look, if they're offering four for 140 in 2019, that's not some horrible offer.

And that's why the entire time when people were trying to act like it was something that was against Dak, it never really made any sense to me because they weren't paying attention to the facts that slowly trickled out about the deal that he actually turned down in the first place. It also reminds me a little bit of the Kirk Cousins deal. Kirk Cousins, over a four-year stretch now, has made $118 million. You want to know why that started? Because he kept getting franchised and then was like, all right, fine, Washington, you

won't unpay me. I'm going to go to Minnesota. Then Minnesota gave him three years that were fully guaranteed. And then they had to pay him again just to lower the cap number when they probably didn't want to do that. Of all the heat the Washington football team takes, one of the weird things that I think actually, and it didn't work out for him, but I always kind of respected, was, yeah, we know we're supposed

to just pay any starter that's going to be a starter over a five-year stretch. We're just supposed to give him at least $30 million a year. Nah, we don't think Kirk's that good. So we don't want to do it. So we'll give you a year

and then we'll franchise you and then we'll move on. And if Minnesota, who's desperate, needs a quarterback who can at least do the job, I'm not saying he's terrible, but I don't think he gets you to that next level, you go ahead and pay him 90 something million. And so that was new. A lot

of this stuff becomes new every year because it's newer. And I know that sounds simple, but that's the whole point. It's like, so wait, Dak got this. Well, who's next? Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Baker Mayfield. I still wouldn't be in a huge hurry to give Baker Mayfield a hundred million guaranteed. But the same reason why Jared Goff got his money. Now, look, the Rams love paying everybody, and they like paying people earlier than they have to. But it's a really good organization for the most part. I just don't understand that part of it.

But a lot of it just comes up to like, hey, how come this quarterback's making this? Well, his deal was up, and this is what he makes. And if you're playing in three years when your deal is up and you're still really good, this is what you're going to make. So that's all it was. Granted, it's the Cowboys. There's a lot of people out there saying a lot of stuff about what it was or it wasn't.

It was really simple. He was offered a pretty good deal. He waited it out. He was tagged. And then he was rewarded. And we can talk about TV money on this. Oh, Jerry knows the TV deal is going to be awesome. I know the fucking TV deal is going to be awesome.

All right? All of us should know this. You can complain about traditional ratings and, oh, that's under the client, that's under the client. They're still the best beach house in a bad real estate market. And right now, whatever traditional ratings are doing all over the place, the NFL will still have the highest number of live audience eyeballs on it, more so than any other product. And that's why everybody's going to keep paying.

I don't know what the point of no return is. I think sometimes networks just pay for it, knowing they're not necessarily making a ton of money on it. But that way they can have somebody read NCIS promos seven times a game. So to say, well, Jerry knows the TV's money. Everybody knows the TV money is coming. And by the way, the way this deal works out kind of three years, really, and not even the four, then Dak can go back to the bargaining table. And if he doesn't get paid, if he's as good as he's been, which is really good.

And then the whole talk of like, oh, this means it's a Super Bowl. No, this just means you get a huge race. Like, you know, you can sit there and complain like, oh, well, this guy get paid this. So this guy needs to get a Super Bowl. I don't understand any of that stuff. Now, now here's where my contract was up. I was due. I'm going to play for a long time. I'm pretty good. And guess what? Now I'm going to get paid. Oh, now I'm going to show up earlier on Monday. Like now I got to really care. Now I got to do interviews. I'm like, now it's definitely about a Superbowl. I don't ever understand any of that stuff because the pressure. So what happens when Dak gets surpassed by five of the guys in the next two years, then Dak doesn't have to win

a Superbowl as badly because he doesn't have the second highest average annual salary. Like he does behind Patrick Mahomes right now, the contract stuff, we're bad at it. Folks were really bad. And I'm trying to help as much as I possibly can, but it never seems to be working. John Kitna of Impelt and I once joked the OG QB backup. I don't know. Probably won't

use that with him, but he played in the league from 97 to 2011. He's got an incredible stories with the Cowboys coaching staff there with that Prescott and now is coaching high school football down in Burleson. So let's catch up with John Kittner. All right, so before we get to all the stuff, there's actually some cool newsy stuff in here as well.

You're running things down in Burleson. Do the parents leave you alone with your resume, or is it the same stuff that I hear from all my other buddies that coach high school sports? No, they don't leave us alone. You know, they, you know, I'm not sure how I even get the job because there's so many great coaches in the stands, but that's just part of it. Give me, give me an example. Like, is there ever a time, and I know you probably, you know, you don't want to go too into it and call anybody out, but, but is there ever a time

you have to remind somebody like, Hey, you know, I did play in the league for a long time here? You know, when I moved to Texas and I took a job at Waxhatchee High School, I met with all the coaches that were on staff already there. You know, you're just trying to figure it out. You just got there. You know, you're just being in the NFL every year is a new team so you just you're very malleable and you know that you're going to have to uh make things work with different different types of people um but there's one guy in particular that sat in the back and I talked about my coaching philosophy

and talked about how I wanted to meet with all the coaches and talked about how, you know, excited to be there and wanted to, you know, keep as many guys I could. And one guy sat in the back like this. Arms up. And he says, at the end of it, I said, you got any questions? And he goes, what makes you think you can coach Texas high school effing football? And I just laughed, man. But there's a lot of pride down here. And I just laugh, man. But there's a lot of pride down here, and I love that part of it.

And there's a lot of, you know, coaches that pay their dues, so I get it. But, you know, there's some funny things that happen all the time, yeah, for sure. Yeah. No, I had a buddy who's a real accomplished baseball player, and, you know, he had all sorts of history of history i mean he's a guy you'd know and then he started coaching high school down in the south and i was like how is it he's like it's great except for the parents and he quit you know after a couple years he's like i don't need this honestly my parents honestly my parents have been you know pretty good wherever i've been i try to keep good communication with

them but uh every now and then you run into somebody that just doesn't agree with you. That's life. No, I get it. We had set this up, and then the DAC news comes out last night. Huge contract. You know DAC.

You were on the staff. The QB coach just a couple years ago. Give me the best breakdown of DAC. The guy, the player, what you see your year with him. Yeah. And we talked about this a lot of times in our staff meetings and debrief meetings after games or whatever it was.

You know, he's a top five quarterback in the league and his production says that he gets better every year. But that's just the stuff on the field. Off the field, what he brings, his leadership is off the charts. From the weight room to the meeting room to the cafeteria to being the voice of the team, being the face of the team, to making sure that he touches base with all the different entities that come along with a football program in the NFL.

So he's just he's everything you could ask for and more. His mindset is just different. It's just very hard to find people that wake up every day and go, how can I get better? And that's who he is in everything that he does. When you say top five quarterback, I think some would listen to this and go, okay, wait a minute. And the numbers are huge. But how do you see that?

Like, how do you separate the guys at the very top versus the other guys that are putting up big numbers that are going to be starters for a bunch of years? But what separates Dak from that group, in your opinion? Yeah, I think you definitely factor in age. You know, what age group are we talking about here you know nobody's being disrespectful of certain people but when you look at everything that he's done since the time that he took over you know the numbers back it up and i'm not going to argue with people oh no he's not the top five he's top ten okay fine if that's what you want to say but but I just have been around it and seen it.

His mindset is different. He's 27 years old. He's going to play for a long time because he knows how to take care of his body and, and he works his tail off. And so I just, I watched the way that, that he approaches his craft day in and day out, and then to see the production. It's one thing to put the work in, but then to put the work in and see the production continually get better.

And for him to – he's so self-aware of his weaknesses that he just – he evaluates them. He's not afraid of them. He doesn't run from them. He's not afraid of coaching. He loves being run from them. He's not afraid of coaching. He loves being coached hard. And so he tries to take any weaknesses and turn it into strengths. And so he's a rapidly ascending player.

When you watch, you know, I'm always talking, you know, Dilfer comes on all the time. I came close with him over the years. And I'm always just hammering away at, you know, teach us more about the difference between, Hey, this guy is putting up those numbers, but here are the, where the limitations are. Here's on third and seven, where he's going to be, you know, in front of the sticks all the time. What do you look for when you're trying to figure out like the guys that not only have the arm strength, they can make all the throws,

but game time situation, you know, step their game up as opposed to, Hey, you know, I had three touchdowns, 350 yards and we lost again. Right. I mean, part of that's, you know, you have to be on the right team in the right program. And, uh, and so, yeah, I don't care how good you are. Um, if you can't stop people from scoring on defense or, uh, you can't protect the quarterback. Any quarterback is going to stroke, period. And so, you know, but for Dak, you know, he's had such a great awareness of when you call a play, how are we trying to attack the defense? And he rarely is going to, you know, work outside the system. He's going to work outside the system. He's going to stay within the system.

But then when plays break down, he has the ability to both make plays running and throwing the ball on the move and breaking the pocket and doing those things. He has great play strength. He can get knocked off his spot and still be strong enough to make throws. He's incredibly accurate. I think two years ago, the year that I was coaching, I'm pretty sure he set a record that year.

It's one of those analytics things, but for his completion percentage to guys that had a low completion rate in terms of them being open, it was off the charts. He went from the year before that, getting sacked somewhere in the 50s, I think, to under 20 that year or right around 20 that year because it was important to the team and to the program. So he just kind of does all those things,

but he's able to make the plays when they're there, but also make plays when they're off schedule. And he rarely turns to football. You were on the staff, and then you ended your career there as well. What was the Cowboy experience like for you after stops other places? How different is it? I mean, when you play in a league, when you play football in the NFL, getting a chance to play for the Cowboys is a big deal.

When you play baseball, getting a chance to play for the Yankees is a big deal. You know, when you play rugby, getting to play for the All Blacks is a big deal. So the experience was unbelievable. I'll never forget, you know, grandmas coming up to me in public. I'm the backup quarterback and they know who I am. They're grandmas. You know, they eat, sleep, and breathe it down here. You know, they're still really pissed about Tom Landry still. You know, it's just a different culture, and it's a ton of fun. You make some great connections with people that last a lifetime because of how deeply people feel about the Cowboys. But being in that locker room, being with Jason Garrett and his staff

was an incredible blessing for me. Let's go back to something that I want to talk to you about because you're in Cincinnati and you put it together. After getting your career started a little bit later in Seattle, you end up in Cincinnati. You have this incredible season. They draft Carson Palmer. I know you've talked about this a bunch, but we're seeing now a momentum towards some quarterbacks calling their shot. Whether it's Russell Wilson clearly flirting with the idea of wanting to move on and Deshaun Watson, who I think more people kind of go like,

I kind of understand where he's coming from. So there's kind of two parts of this where in that moment you have this great year, they pick Palmer and you say, no, I'm going to stay here to help this guy. I don't know that many people would do that. I definitely don't think many people would do that today.

So how were you able to do that? Well, I think first of all, is my faith. Um, you know, that's the biggest thing for me is just knowing that nothing happens without it being filtered um through the hand of god in my life and so if god wanted me to be the quarterback there i'd have been the quarterback there and and i think there's great purpose there the second thing is i i like carson palmer as a person

and then third thing is we had adopted a couple of my cousins. And one of them was going to be a senior. That was going to be his senior year coming up the next year. And he's a pretty good athlete and stuff like that. We just felt like it would be detrimental to up and move him at that point for him. And so it made all the sense in the world for us in those three aspects to stay put. And I'm thankful that we did. Love Cincinnati.

I got to meet, you know, my wife, my family. We got to meet some of our best friends in the world out there. And then, you know, getting to forge that relationship with Carson Palmer for three years, I wouldn't trade for the world. And so I just think there's more important things than football in life. And that, you know, probably meant that I didn't quite have the career that maybe I could have had. But I'm thankful that I'm going on my, you know, 27th year of marriage. And my kids are thriving and all that stuff.

That's important to me. And my faith is important to me. Now, maybe before, because I do know your story, would it be safe to say that maybe college John Kitna would have not handled the Carson Palmer draft pick as well? There's no question. Pre-1993, John Kitna would have probably fought somebody. But, yeah, two different people. Two completely different people pre-1993 and post-1993.

Because it's, you know, I've the stories from aaron rogers where he was like yeah farb didn't have any time for me you know that there's no there's no love there and i can i can understand it as the vet you know i worked with danny cannell for a long time and i would like be like hey tell me who who was the guy when you came in that put your armor in canelbo joke and be like well none of the starters were ever that threatened by me towards the end, so they were best friends. We'd be golfing because they just weren't

that worried about it. How important is that where that relationship is actually real and there is support for a position that's, look, the hardest position to play in team sports?

Yeah, man, I was fortunate too. I had John Freeze and then Warren Moon, you know, for the first three years of my career. That taught me a lot, both on the field and off the field. And I was thankful for that. And then, you know, so then you kind of try to pay it forward that way.

And then, you know, with Carson and, you know, that situation, it was just really comes down to what I believed in. I think the Bible says it best. Jesus said, you know, whoever wants to be the greatest will be the greatest servant. And I think there's value in being a servant and being second. And I think that's why I'm a coach.

I get great joy in seeing others achieve and knowing that I had a small part of that. I get more joy out of that than my own accomplishments. And so it just makes it fun. In a quarterback room in the NFL, I just, it's miserable to have a lot of tension in your quarterback room because you're going to be, you're living with those guys. And so it's just a choice I think people have to make.

But, again, some people make the other choice, and it drives them to greatness. It just wasn't the way I wanted to live my life. Still isn't. You're close with Carson, as you mentioned, and you just loved him immediately. You've said you think he's the most talented guy you ever played with. Is that fair?

Yeah. At quarterback. Yeah. I mean, he's right most talented guy you ever played with is that fair yeah at quarterback yeah I mean he's right there him and Warren Moon for sure you know Warren was 40 at the time so but yeah the talent off the charts so when Carson and I don't know if there was a lot of dialogue here there but when he says and I remember I was on the air then it's like whoa this guy's actually threatening like he's just not gonna play anymore like wait what and it ends up working out he gets to oakland and then it really works out once he gets to arizona did you talk to him during that time of like what you're doing the significance of what you're doing and what you could be sacrificing because you want away from this one organization so bad yeah we didn't talk i don't you know we didn't talk during that window

of time but we we talked a lot in those three years and just the things that we saw and experienced and and uh you know for him it was just it was a breaking point uh for him and you know he tells the story uh you know really well and i don't want to try to tell it his way but there were some things that just along the way he felt like the trust was broken and and it was not going to come back. And so he had to put a foot in the ground in terms of just for him in terms of just who he is. And enough was enough. Is it that bad back then?

You know, I've heard stories about like they don't put any money into the scouting staff, the facility and all that kind of stuff. Like I imagine most of that stuff's up to date somewhat, but was it, was it really that bad being in Cincinnati, Bengal at the beginning of the century, I guess I would say, or the last decade? There were some things that were like, you know, I mean, it was hard to believe some, you know, I mean,

that's a great question. I remember, I remember times and, you know, I mean, that's a great question. I remember I remember times, you know, I'm not going to put anybody throwing. But I mean, there was a time that I played a game with a guy that was drunk in the huddle. You know, there was a time that a guy showed up, you know. Late to a game in the NFL, you need to be there two hours, two hours and 15 minutes ahead of time. And he showed up, yeah, under an hour before the game, and he started. Now, those are weird things now.

That's tough. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got to go back to the drunk guy in the huddle. Did everybody know the guy was drunk? Did the staff know, or were you just like, Whoa, dude, you smell like rumplements. I'm not sure if the staff knew, but I think the guy was like, you know,

that was kind of his normal. So, I mean, I mean, he was drunk and had close to 200 yards receiving now. So it was crazy. Okay. We can rule out the tackles and guards on this one. I know how much you're at peace with everything. You know, it was, I was watching a bunch of videos and it was,

it was cool. It was really cool to see you kind of go through it all. Do the younger kids connect? I'm sure in Texas, in certain communities, religion's such a big part of it so maybe it it doesn't feel like oh it's this old guy trying to tell me all this stuff but how did how do the kids connect with you and some of the stuff the messages you're trying to get across i mean i i'm just a coach to them at the end of the day. And, you know, they kind of know I played in the NFL, but none of them,

you know, nobody saw that. I'd have to pull clips up and then they would laugh at me because of the bad, you know, video and stuff like that. But really I'm just coach. And I've just had the greatest time coaching down here. I love it. Getting a chance to see young men just grow both physically and in their character. We focus a lot on character here.

We believe we're partners with their parents in training manhood in them and what it means to be a real man. And so it's a ton of fun. Is there, is there guys along the way that, and they don't really like the program. Yeah, that's how it is.

But the vast majority that I get to stay in touch with, and whether it's from Washington or Texas or Arizona and back to Texas, I mean, it's just been a blessing. And so we really enjoy what we do. Well, we'll be rooting for you. All right. Cause I know how happy Dilfer is, you know, he and just been a blessing. And so we really enjoy what we do. Well, we'll be rooting for you. All right.

Cause I know how happy Dilfer is, you know, he and I are pretty close and, you know, he's, he's a lot, a lot of the stuff that he'll talk to me about and be like, look, this is just where I needed to be right now in life and helping others and everything. And I'll tell people about this all the time. There's a calm, there's a, there's a look in the faces of you guys that are helping younger people that I'm envious of. I think it's real. When I see it on you guys, I'm like, man, there's

something about these guys. They're just like, look, this is my purpose right now and this is what I'm doing. Again, rooting for you and thanks for the time. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. He's one of the best analysts going when it comes to the NBA. ES's Tim Legler but also the 96 three point shooting champ so I don't know do when you watch it do you get sentimental oh definitely yeah it's yeah it was a it was you know an incredible experience to go through it um and like for me

like that was such a defining moment Ryan Ryan, because I took a different path. I was a mid-major college guy, undrafted, fought through the CBA, played in Europe. I mean, you name it, I did it. Ten-day contracts, the whole bit. And then finally, I had a good year in Dallas, good year in Golden State, but then I was a free agent. I went to Washington. That was my first year there.

So that was my moment on a national stage against the best shooters in the world. And me believing I was the best shooter in the world. It's like, man, I'm in this competition that I watched as a kid, like Larry Bird, my idol won this thing three times. I got a chance to like put my name on a same list that his name is on. Like it just, the whole thing seems surreal in the moment. I was confident that I could win it. And, uh, and I did. So yeah, I watch it every year and I flashed back to what that was like at that time. My daughter was born a week before I, my oldest, my first child was born a week before I won that competition. So you talk about it, an incredible like week of my life, like, you know, so every year I watch it and yes, I absolutely take my mind back to that time. So I watched it this morning. You hit nine out

of 10 money balls, the first two rounds. And there's a couple of things that jump out. Juwan Howard going crazy for you is so, so cool. And I'll admit, like, I've got to know you a while. I'd like to consider you somebody I, you know, I know casually here. You look nervous as shit. Were you, were you, were you freaking out a little bit, even though you were hitting everything? So, no, here's the honest truth. I was, I was in the locker room getting ready to go out there and they had some balls back

there, like sample type balls that the same ones we were going to use and they were freaking brand new out of the box and i'm picking these balls up and i'm like these things are so slick and that's when i started getting a little bit nervous because i'm thinking like i hate more than anything shooting with like a new basketball i'm like why are they giving us these baskets? Especially the money ball had like an extra layer of coating on it. And I'm going, what is the deal? Why in the world would you give these balls to like in an event where you want to impress the world and you're going to give people these bricks to throw up there. So I'm back there kind of sweating that

out. When I got out on the court to warm up, um, I started shooting and I, I got into a great rhythm and I was super confident when, you know, now we go over to the bench, they're going to do introductions. And I was the first, I was, I drew number one in the, in the drawing. I was going to be the first shooter. Um, like I was so glad for that. Cause I didn't have to sit there for 20, 30 minutes, you know, during commercial breaks and then, you know, all those guys that had to go sit, I thought it was an advantage that I got to go for warmup introduction and now shoot. And, and I, I was very, very confident. So to answer your question, I was nervous before, but in an area, no one would see that. So by the time, whatever you saw on TV,

no, honestly, I was not nervous. I think what maybe you were reading was how bad I wanted it. Yeah. You know what? Probably more than anybody there. Okay. Yeah. Cause I felt bad the way I set that up. You just had this look on your face. I'm like,

is that, is he nervous there? Cause you're around and it's all the dudes going nuts and clowning on everybody on the sideline. Yeah. And by the way, the John Howard thing, I didn't know that that happened until I saw a replay of it like the next

day. And I was, I thought that was the coolest thing until I saw a replay of it like the next day. And I was, I thought that was the coolest thing ever because he, if you look at the clip, he literally turns, I think it's Reggie Miller and he turns and he goes, give me my money, give me my money. Cause it was like, he was betting like on me, like, you know, my teammate was betting on me. And then he's going up to these guys, like trying to collect right there. So it's like one of the great clips. It was a great weekend for our organization because Jawan played in his only All-Star game. I won the three-point contest.

And Rasheed Wallace hit the game-winning shot in the rookie sophomore challenge. So, like, for Washington to have three guys represent All-Star weekend, it might be the best All-Star weekend representation that the organization's ever had i didn't even think of that and then of course that team went on to win multiple championships built around weber and all those guys i'm just kidding um because everybody was so excited about that team um in that that bull series like i remember being in college and going up look out you know and we've made that mistake a million times being like man just them being competitive like This is the next team. And then there's so many times

when it's not the next team. Hey, listen. Listen to what we did. This is going to blow people's mind on what we did right around that time because you're 100% right. We took the Bulls. It was a best of five.

We got swept. Every game was a one-possession game with a minute to play. Yeah. And after the series was over, Jordan even said, that's the next team to look out for in the Eastern Conference. Now we had a front line at that time of Chris Weber,

Jawan Howard, Ben Wallace, George Mirosan, and Rasheed. That was our front line. And you know what we decided to do? The geniuses in the front office, we're going to go ahead and trade Weber, Ben Wallace, and Rasheed Wallace. And the return on that was two young bigs for Weber and Rasheed. We got back Rod Strickland and Mitch Richmond and Strick still had some really good years in a Mitch room was Mitch Richmond was at the end of his career. So two young bigs for two older guards that never seems to work out great. And then Ben Wallace for Isaac Austin.

And now at the time we had Ben Wallace, they didn't even know what they had. They had this dude, he drove up, paid his own way to try out for the team, played pickup ball, got every rebound in the gym. He made the team. He never really played much. He got, he was great in preseason, but then he never played because the guys I mentioned were all playing ahead of him. And then they traded him. They didn't even know what he was. He goes on to be like a four time defensive player at a year after he left us. So we, we got rid of our front line at a time when front lines were still a thing in the nba and uh and for for a bunch of guards and a journeyman center and isaac austin who

who just never panned out there so that's kind of why that never materialized and rashid was there the year before right i'm just double checking here because yeah no rashid went first she Rasheed was 95, 96. They traded Rasheed Wallace after his rookie year because they thought he was emotionally too volatile. And they traded him for Rod Strickland. All right, so give me your impression of Rasheed part of it because as a young guy, he was different. But the thing I've always heard about Rasheed, even as an older guy, he was different. You know, I mean, he was battling, he was combative. We went out to Portland. I always thought it was really interesting that he got a million technicals because he was just going to be pissed at everybody. And then he goes to Detroit and he's just stopped getting technicals because he respected everybody. But if you were there at the beginning, I've never heard a teammate say a bad word about Rasheed.

were there at the beginning, I've never heard a teammate say a bad word about Rashid. Like every guy I've ever talked to that played with him, like, nah, man, like if you knew him and you around him, you would love him. 100%. And here's how I'll sum him up. He's the most unselfish elite level talent I've ever been around in my life. He did not care maybe to his own detriment about becoming a superstar. He, but even though he had superstar talent, all he wanted to do was win. He just, cause that's all he had known. He was on the best high school team in the country in Philly.

He was on a, you know, a, a, a top team at college Carolina. He was a fourth pick in a draft. I believe I got that right. Fourth, I think. All he knew was winning. That's all he wanted to do. That dude was, was he always made the right pass. He, he took extra shots after practice.

He hit the weight room. Now he would leave the facility. And I'm pretty sure at that time, as most guys, his age would do, he'd go back to the department and probably play video games all day. And then you'd come back to practice the next day and do it all over again. And I'm watching this guy saying, okay, he's a rookie,

but I could already see any, and he went on to become this. He was maybe the best low post defensive player in the league. And as his, as his career went on and he got into Portland and Detroit, he was, he turned, he was a phenomenal offensive player, great hands, in the league as his, as his career went on and he got into Portland and Detroit. He was, he turned,

he was a phenomenal offensive player, great hands, great IQ for the game. You name it. He just didn't have that. Like I want to be first team all league. I want to be MVP. Cause that's going to require taking 18 to 20 shots and putting up numbers.

And like that just never, ever entered his mind. It was not part of his DNA. So as a result, some people look at him and think, nah, he's an underachiever. And I just completely have an opposite view of that. I don't think that at all. I think he was a guy that just literally

wanted to be just more like a team guy. And he didn't care about that stuff as long as he was part of a winning team. And so that's always been my view on Rashid. Anybody would ever say, you're picturing Rashid screaming at refs, being volatile, getting teed up, getting tossed, or whatever it may be. That's your impression of him? You don't know anything about him.

Washington completely overreacted to the number of technicals he got as a rookie and stuff like that and his reputation he was building with the refs. It was definitely a thing. There was something there with the refs and him. And and stuff like that. And his reputation, he was building with the refs. It was, it was, it was definitely a thing. There was something there with the refs and him. Um, and he, he, you know,

he was, he was creating that because he was very emotional, but he was so young. It's like, can't you guys figure out a way to reign that in? Because you're talking about, you're talking about probably a first team, all league caliber defensive player,

a phenomenal offensive player that maybe is a little bit unselfish, but, um, can't you figure that out? But they just panicked. They panicked. They thought, Oh, this guy, he's just too, he's too emotional. We can't control him. So we're going to, we're going to get rid of him after one year. It was, it was insane. It was an insane decision. And I love Strick.

And Strick gave us good years and I loved playing with him. And to this day we're friends and I did love that. And, and you know, that that was great but when you have a young 611 dude like that that's that good you got to figure out a way to get to get that part under control and and see what you have here so to trade that guy after one year think about that that's insane yeah you can't be trading him at 22 years old um and i i think i've always had like i've had a theory named after him, the Rashid Wallace theory, because I think he should have been better because I think that much of his game,

his adaptability, the fact that he could shoot, you know, he was actually built. If he came along later on, I mean, he really wanted to take over games and shoot 18, 20 shots a game and really hone in on the three point numbers that probably

would have gone up just because of the spacing and all that kind of stuff. Um, but then he's going, Hey, I got a ring and made 160 million. So you can tell me I did it wrong. You know? So like I, and really hone in on the three-point numbers that probably would have gone up just because of the spacing and all that kind of stuff. But then he's going, hey, I got a ring and made $160 million. So you're going to tell me I did it wrong? You know, so like I've always understood that part of it. And when I didn't understand him and I'd watch him and be like, what is this guy's deal? But then the great thing about ESPN is getting to know so many of you guys and be like, hey, what's up with Rashid?

And no one, no one has ever had a bad word to say about him as a teammate. So I just knew it would be the same. No, no, and you won't get it from me either. And he's done a lot with coaching kids and stuff. He's dedicated his life to the game, even helping kids in that way. All right. That's actually a perfect segue because you mentioned Juwan, who's doing a great job at Michigan.

I know that you have, whether it's interest, I don't know the long-term goals, but have you talked to him and what he's done there and how that maybe inspires you or impacts you on maybe making a decision? Because you've been coaching AAUs for years. I'm just wondering kind of where your head's at with that, seeing a guy like that do what he's doing at Michigan. Yeah, yeah.

Look, man, I'm thrilled for his success. And I love Juwan. He was one of my favorite teammates ever. And it's ironic because he brought Phil Martelli up there who had just, you know, I've known Phil forever. He coaches St. Joe's in the big five. I've known Phil forever. And so that was, and he had just gotten fired from St. Joe's after a long run, but he had finally hit some mediocre teams and the alumni wanted him out and they, they got rid of them. And you talk about a perfect guy to bring with you to Ann Arbor because, you know, and this is what I have said, look, there is no question in my mind.

I would be very successful as a college coach. And I desperately want the opportunity. Unfortunately for me, I don't have the name of a Juwan Howard. And I know he put in time as an assistant coach in the NBA, but anybody that would tell me that I'm going to say, if you think being an NBA assistant in any way, shape, or form is preparing you to be a college coach, then you just don't understand how different that world is. It has nothing to do with it. But that's on his resume. I don't have that on my resume.

I've been a broadcaster for all these years, and I've done a lot of coaching, and I know I can coach. I know I could recruit. I know. But what you need is that guy next to you to show you and how quickly you will pick it up on your own, but you need somebody to show you how to run a program. And that's what Phil Martelli did for him. So he gives nuts and bolts day-to-day operations. This is what we need to do today to run this program, because that's the thing that I have, you know, I've never done it. Juwan never did it. He didn't know what to do.

They just knew that this is, this guy's, this guy is an alum. He's really bright. He's been in coaching. He wants to coach. He's got a big name. It's going to help with recruiting. We want this guy. And then we're going to bring in the support staff around him for that other stuff that he doesn't know what to do. And look how quickly it's coming together there. That's kind of what I would do. That's like my vision for it. Unfortunately, I don't have the name of a Juwan Howard, and I think it's hurt me with some opportunities I thought I would have been perfect for. So my answer to that is yes, I desperately still want to do it.

There is zero doubt in my mind that that's my calling and that's what I should be doing, and I want to do that. Will I ever get the opportunity? I don't know. And people say, oh, well, just go be an assistant for a few years. I'm like do that. Will I ever get the opportunity? I don't know. And people say, oh, well, just go be an assistant for a few years. I'm like, come on, I'm 54. It's the time's got to be now to go be a head coach. I can't walk away from something that I've built for 20 years in broadcasting at something like that, to go be an assistant, take an enormous pay cut and just let's hope that it turns into something. I couldn't justify that to my family.

Like that just, that wouldn't be smart. So I'm at the point, like, I hope that something would, somebody would give me a legitimate opportunity. And I've had interviews and I've finished second, you know, three times. So it's like, you know, it just, they're afraid to pull the string

on a guy with quote, no coaching experience, which Ryan, I've always laughed at because when somebody says no experience, I say, well, I don't know, what is 30 years being around the NBA, you know, at the highest level of the game, does that count for anything? And plus coaching another 500 games of high level AAU, like a national circuit AAU, like none of that counts as experience. It just thought you weren't in a program doing that job every day. So therefore you don't have experience. Like that's what's

held me back. And so ADs and search firms have had a very difficult time just pulling the trigger on that. And so I've come close, but at the same time, I realized at some point it probably will be past that time and I'll forget about it,

but I'm not there now. Yeah, look, I hope it works out because I know it's something that you've wanted. We've talked about it and I know the search firm part of it is, I don't know, I kind that you've wanted. We've talked about it. And I know the search firm part of it is, I don't know. I kind of know about it, but I don't know all of it. It seems kind of weird. But then when people get mad at ADs for hiring search firms, it's like, well, what are you

getting paid for? It's like, okay, but if the AD hires somebody and then it doesn't work out, then everybody's mad at him. Well, how come you didn't vet him? At least he can then say, well, I paid a search firm all this money, so they're responsible for it too. The whole part of it, but I think the more guys like Juwan, and maybe people were ridiculous thinking that former players couldn't just step right in and make a difference right away. Maybe it's evolving. Maybe it's

turning. The NBA's had multiple examples of ex-players just stepping right in and being head coaches. That's a great point, and there's no question, whenever a guy gets a job, I am, I am, I am on my knees praying for their success because it could lead to that.

I mean, Penny Hardaway has had success at Memphis and Penny Hardaway coached the high school team in some AAU basketball. He had no other experience coaching. That's basically what I've done. And, but you know, he's the biggest name to ever come out of that school.

So he, you know, they, they wanted them and there he is. And he's a pipeline because of his AAU connections. And so that, he's the biggest name to ever come out of that school. So, you know, they wanted him, and there he is. He's a pipeline because of his AAU connections, and so that's the deal. So, you know, I look at, you know, Patrick Ewing at Georgetown, like guys that played in the league, you know, that haven't had experience as a college assistant or anything like that

have had success, and I'm absolutely pulling for those guys because you hope it happens. The search firm component is tough because they've got a very stiff mindset about it. They've got their list of guys they're trying to help. They are going to stiff arm you and keep you out of the search. Because as soon as that AD calls that search firm, the AD literally disappears until the search firm provides him with three candidates to interview. And then the AD, along with the search firm, will then make that last decision. But if you can't even get into the mix because the search firm won't allow it, you can't

even communicate with the ADs. There are guys that I've known where I go, I know this guy. We're connected. And it's like, you can't even get because they don't want any accountability. No, I wrote a check to the search firm. Now it's a CYA mentality. And now I'm good because they're going to recommend this coach. And if he stinks and he's got to get fired in three years, it's because the search firm,

not because of me. And that's totally what it is. You still get a few old school ADs that go, you know what? I don't need one. I'm gonna do it myself. And that's what I have tried to find programs that that's going to be the case. Cause I feel like if I can just get in the room with this AD and he can hear me and hear my passion and hear my knowledge and hear my plan and my vision and who I'm going to bring in here to help me and everything else, I got a

real shot. But the, the, what I'm, what I've run into repeatedly is the search firm just keep me out of the mix because they've got their list of assistant coaches or head coaches that are going to bump up a level or assistant coaches getting their first job. They've got their list of guys and I'm not on that list because I didn't, I didn't follow that pipeline. You know what I would say behind, this is funny. I say to people, I'm like, you know why, like this guy that maybe I'm going after a job with is, is, has been in an assistant coach for 15 years because he wasn't good enough to play beyond college. I played 10 years professionally and then it led me into this,

or I would have gone to the graduate assistant route and I would have done all that. I'd probably be coaching a power five school right now. That's, that's really what I believe. But Hey, my career took me to a different place. And I had young children that I needed to raise. Then finally, I got to the point like, okay, I want to do this. I really thought the opportunities would be a little bit more plentiful to at least get into the conversation. It's been difficult. Yeah, I can't imagine because it's a grind trying to even get in.

I want to spend a few minutes before we let you go on what's going on now in the league. How many teams right now do you feel comfortable with saying, hey, if that team wins the championship, it's not a surprise? I think the Lakers, Nets, Sixers are in there. Is there anybody else? And feel free to take this in any direction you want on how many teams you

think legit are scary right now. I think you have to include Brooklyn. There's just too much talent there what do you see with them like right now when you watch them like what's the thing that jumps out well obviously durant's been out so it's a little different but what i what i started to see was okay the biggest question about it they seem like they have figured out which is whose whose team is it whose offense is

it and it's clearly james harden's offense because that's what they had to establish now because kevin durant that's not even a factor because he can go get 25 to 30 so efficiently and so easily he doesn't care who's going to handle the ball more and who's making decisions. He's like, whatever, I'm good. That's why, but for Kyrie and Harden, I thought this could be a real issue and it hasn't been because it's clearly James Harden's team. Kyrie slides into that. Just let me go be a scorer role, which was when he was at his best in Cleveland,

take all of the leadership off the table, take the responsibility, making guys better off the table, take the responsibility making guys better off the table. Just let me go stay in my lane and go score. That's when he was at his best in Cleveland and he, and it worked and they won a championship together. And so he's back in that lane. And so once they figured that out, I said, okay, that was a big thing. They got that figured out. Now it's okay. This team can be so good good offensively some nights. There's just no way you can come up with enough defensively to scheme for all of that or have enough personnel to do it. Nobody can deal with that.

So, you know, I look at them and say, there's no question that they can win the Eastern Conference and win a championship. They have to be on that list now. They're obviously defensively not very good. There's some nights I watch them and go, okay, they're trying a little bit harder. Other nights I watch them and go, okay, they don't care about that at all.

They're going to win this game 135-132 and they don't care. Other nights I go, oh, somebody fought over a screen. That's an improvement. So it's like incremental increases. I don't think they even talk about it much there because they're so good offensively.

So I think they're on the list. Sixers, you know, actually, would I be shocked if the Sixers won at all? Yes, I would be. I would be shocked. So you like Brooklyn more? You like Brooklyn more right now in the East? In terms of winning a championship, I would have to put Brooklyn, yes. Their ceiling

is higher than Philly's. Alright, so stay where you were going with Philly before I jumped in. Well, I was going to say, so they had this guy in Embiid, which is such a unique way to attack teams. I mean, he's the closest thing I've seen, the way he's playing this year, to Olajuwon at his prime. I just think he's so overwhelming physically. He's improved his decision-making in the post.

He doesn't over-dribble and turn the ball over as much as he used to. He seems fully committed to being great for the first time in his career. He wants to dominate you every night and he's doing it in a way that plays to his strengths. And I think that's coach, the coaching staff has something to do with that. I think his own maturity level changed and something's different about him this year. And he is, he's all about being locked in every night. It's been really great to watch. So's unique nobody has one of those so that that's going to always get them in the mix

but then i look at their their next guys i don't know if i can count on tobias harris to give them 20 20 21 a night in a seven game series with any of those teams like you know you get deeper in a second third round of the eastern coverage playoffs. He has had some mystifying, head-scratching, where were you moments in the playoffs? So I don't know that. And obviously Ben Simmons, he at times can be so good

and you're just like, wow. And then there are nights he doesn't even, you don't even notice he's on the floor in the fourth quarter of a game. So I say to myself, they get into a situation

where teams lock it in on this team for four, five, six, seven games in a row and making adjustments and how they're going to guard and bead. Can you really count on those guys when you're going to need to? That's why I think the ceiling's higher for Brooklyn than Philly. But they're clearly, to me, the two best in that conference. And then out west, you've got the Lakers. I guess the Clippers, I would say, yeah, they need to be in the mix. They would give, I think, the Lakers a hell of a series in a best of seven and I actually think Utah is legit now ultimately is that enough to

beat those two teams in a seven game series not so sure about that but I would not be shocked if they beat the Clippers if they avoid the Lakers and play the Clippers like in the second round would not be shocked to see Lakers Utah conference final. Okay. What do you like about Utah? Cause I agree. The number one thing I like about them is they, they,

they play a very simple style of, of, of how they operate offensively with just ball, high ball screen, high ball screen, dribble handoff. That's all they really run. But every single guy on that team makes great,

quick, decisive decisions. The ball does not, is never like over dribbled. It's never held too long. It's just dribble handoff or ball screen, get into the lane, start kicking it,

swinging it and swinging it, and make these defensive teams catch up to the ball, and it's always going to end up in the hands of a guy that can shoot it. And it's just their decision-making and chemistry and the way they make the extra pass, really tough to defend. I mean, they're doing things on an unprecedented level, shooting the basketball. I think about those early Golden State teams, which we were like, oh my God, it's the greatest shooting team I've ever seen in my life. You think about those early

teams before Durant got there, those teams were making 13 threes a night. And we thought this the greatest shooting exhibition we've ever seen. The Jazz are making 17 a night. I mean, that's the level that they're shooting at. And then they've got two perfect players for the middle. Go bear in favors. Ball screen dive, ball screen dive, go bear in favors ball screen dive ball screen dive ball screen dive ball screen dive every time every time is hard every time is committed even though go bear might not get it four out of five times he does it he dives just as hard on the next one and so you got a guy that committed to playing that way and he's not like there are centers that will do that twice and the third time they don't get it they're like okay i'm just gonna slip every time i'm not gonna set the screen anymore because i'm tired of the energy i'm

expending gobert is committed to run out there full sprint screen full sprint to the rim oh okay i gotta go do it again okay i'm gonna go do it again now for angles full sprint screen full sprint dive and and it's just great to watch favors is the same thing so they've got this perfect mix of guys that are playing just absolutely flawless basketball offensively. And by the way, Ryan, the other thing, they can beat you on the other end. If they have a night they don't shoot well, their top five defensive rated team in the league,

they can win a game if they have to, 102-98. And that's what I like about them a lot. So I think they're legit, man. I don't think this is a great story. I think this is a team that actually can cause some damage and really surprise people in the postseason. Yeah, I mean, all that makes sense. I love watching them.

I love that not only is it the high-screen rule, which is kind of what everybody's doing, some variation of it, and then when it gets stuck, they'll run something new to get away from it. But they can initiate it with, like, three or four guys. That's what's crazy is that they can run it with Mitchell. You hit it on a head. They've got four elite ball screen players with Mitchell, Clarkson, Ingles, right? Conley.

My Conley, yeah, I just want to leave it out. They've got four elite ball screen decision makers. Yeah. And it's just, so you're 100% right. I actually did a breakdown of that exact topic a couple weeks ago just it's so you're 100 right i actually did a breakdown that exact topic a couple weeks ago and then and you're right so that's the other thing you know you're funny you said everybody's kind of doing that you're 100 right every team runs the same stuff the difference is who's running it and what kind of decisions are we making and that's what separates teams because they're all running the same stuff. Some guys just have better

players running it. And then some teams have really good players, but they make terrible decisions. So it's never really that hard to guard. This team has guys that can run it.

And then they also have incredibly high IQs with what they're looking at and the way the ball starts to move. So they're a, they're a, for me this year, they may be the, my favorite team to watch on a nightly basis. I'm right there with you.

You know, I was watching him again, even in the Philly loss where I was just impressed with both teams. I go, Hey, you know, people are going to have to stop. I'm not necessarily saying like, Hey, I'm off the Lakers, but just to open your mind up to the idea that the jazz could come out of the West, I don't the Lakers, but just to open your mind up to the idea that the Jazz could come out of the West, I don't think should be as complicated as people make it out to be.

And again, because it's LeBron and plenty of us who have ever said, ah, maybe not this year or whatever, and the guy just proves you wrong every single year if you go against him. Not that I've gone against LeBron every year, but there are just times you're like, all right. And the Lakers look terrible right now.

I don't care. I don't care how bad they look. They could lose 20 games in a row, and if Davis and LeBron are healthy to start of the playoffs, I'm probably still picking them. But just the idea that the Jazz could come out of the West,

I feel like that in itself feels like this bold statement. And when you watch them and you look at all the numbers, you're like, I don't think it's that crazy. And that's kind of where I'm at right now with it. No, I completely agree with you.

I think I made a joke before the year when the Lakers signed. This is before the Nets did what they did. But I said, when the Lakers signed Harold and Schroeder, I said, well, why are we playing a season? Let's just play eight games and start the playoffs because there's nobody is going to beat that team. Well, I mean, it's just such a waste of time. I mean, every year you feel like it's a foregone conclusion. Like you think, okay, one of these three teams can win it. This was probably the greatest foregone conclusion of any year when they added those guys. I said, they're not, no one is beating this team. And then the Nets did what they did. And I said, okay,

I wasn't convinced. I was skeptical. And I said, let me see what this looks like. And, you know, I still need to see more with all three of those guys. Cause you know, Durant was hurt. They've had guys miss nights and I need to see what that looks like. All three of those guys because you know durant was hurt they've had guys miss nights and i need to see what that looks like all three of those guys play like 10 straight games and say okay okay that'll give me a better gauge because now obviously that's changed that conversation about the lakers and i think the jazz have changed that conversation i go this is a team legitimately that can find themselves in the finals and i i believe that and nothing's nothing's really changed my mind now the only thing that you would have would be they get to that that and nothing's nothing's really changed my mind now the only thing that you would have would be they get to that point and it's the conference finals and

for whatever reason you know a couple guys just aren't quite ready for that stage and they don't play well in that series but i don't know i think they might be past that i think they're so collectively bought into each other they believe that they belong there and they can be there and that's what really that's half the battle is believing that you should, you deserve it and you've earned it. And like, you're worthy of this, this, you know, this opportunity. And I think they're there now. Awesome as always, Legs. Thanks. Hey, anytime, Ryan. You got it, man. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari.

355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. LifeAdvice, rr at gmail dot com. Before we get to a couple of these,

Kyle, thanks for the work on the bonus Sunday pod. For those that are asking how the schedule works, I'll reiterate it to this audience that when I go on with Bill on Sundays now, that'll mean Tuesday, Thursday for me. When I don't do a Sunday, it'll be Monday, Wednesday, Friday. That's how we're going to do it for a little while. It's going to be

every other week for a bit because I think we were together for so long and then we still have a ways to go with the basketball. We probably both don't want to talk to each other for two and a half hours every Sunday. That might be his preference more than mine. Now I've made it weird. I'm talking about there's a problem between us.

Obviously, Kyle, maybe you should chime in here as the arbiter of this. There no issues i just think we're trying to space them out correct yeah i think so i mean what the interesting part of this is no matter what i always work on sunday so it's all the same to me yeah there you go kyle didn't care no drinking on sundays how much does that screw up your uh your routine you big sunday drink guy i used to be i definitely used to be. It was like a full day after Saturday. It was like Monday was the day that you dreaded.

But then it's like, oh, Sunday. Because people want to do stuff. They want to go mess around on Sunday. But I got to be like, oh, shit, hold on. Now it's 12 o'clock, which is fine. But I think we're recording at 4 today. So I think I should probably be out of here by 1, 32 o'clock. And I don't know.

You just don't want to fuck things up. And it's easier to do. You stop drinking at 32 o'clock and you know i don't know you just don't want to fuck things up and it's easy you stop drinking at one o'clock on sundays if you have to work is what you're saying exactly and like you know that's pretty responsible buddy well it depends on what time because sometimes it's like oh if it's a good game now that it's nba it's like all right we'll go at seven o'clock after the last game but then bill will be like you know what fuck it this game sucks i'm not gonna watch it it's four o'clock now and it's like fucking red alert i gotta get home like you know it's a cold shower yeah whatever but i'm happy to have a job whatever no i no that's great that's that's amazing i never um we didn't we didn't drink on Sunday in college. I know some colleges do it and just, but we didn't, we didn't do that.

We didn't sit around tank beers and watch the NFL on Sunday. Um, but by the time Saturday rolled around, everybody was kind of burned out from Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. So Saturdays where I went to school, especially with no college football, I mean, lacrosse kept it going for a little bit there, but, um, there was no, like, I'll hear about other guys that went to school and they were like, Oh my God, you know, Sundays used to be ridiculous out of Sunday, Sunday stuff. I'm like, yeah, Sunday, Sunday didn't even, if that term didn't even exist, nobody had shirts or anything back when I, I mean,

again, it was a long time ago now where I talk to myself, but Sunday was not, I mean, Saturdays were lame by the time Saturday rolled around, we were kind of over it already anyway. So then Sunday, you didn't want to keep it going because you probably, you know, cleared the system. I guess my point with Sunday is the blank slate. So, you know, if you've got something that's looming on Sunday, it's not so much a blank slate anymore. That's what I mean. Yeah, I mean, for me, I had to entertain America for a decade. So, I mean, Monday?

No. Give me a break. Okay, here we go. Our man's checking in here. Thanks to Nephew Kyle and Ryan for reading the email. 6'1", barefoot. Oh, wow. All right.

195, 38 years old. Don't know my max, but I can do a few reps at 225. Great. Thank you. Just moved across the state and I'm starting a new job. I've heard Ryan read multiple emails of people looking to meet new friends. They moved to a new city. I'm the opposite.

Every time I started a new job, I have random guys asking me to hang out. I'm not trying to sound like an ass, but I have a solid group of friends. I'm not really looking to add to it. I don't want people at my new place of work to think that I'm a total jerk, but I've always had problems with this in the past when I've switched jobs at apartments in the past. My previous job, I transferred departments and a guy I'd known only a few days said he had two tickets to Jim Gaffigan and wanted to know if I would like to go with him. Wasn't really interested in hanging out alone with a person I just met. But when I said I was busy, the guy seemed like he took it personally and didn't talk

to me for a while. This kind of stuff has happened to me multiple times in the past. I want to get along with my coworkers, but I'm just not interested in hanging out with everyone outside of the workplace. I'm not sure if this makes me an oddball, but it is what it is. How do I adroitly, good use, get out of the situations where coworkers want to spend time out of work without becoming the office jerk? It's already too late, man. They're already talking about you. They think you're a dick. And I think you kind of know it. And you're not changing at 38. I'm not going to sit here and be like, here's some tips to be friendlier because you don't care and i have groups where no one's added to the group since college and we'll laugh like we have another guy who's mr country club and he's meeting everybody he's saying hi and you know he actually

i think likes strangers more than he likes us sometimes and we're just like wait you're adding new friends like you're going on ski trips guys you meet in your 40s like what's it what's that like that's gonna be weird it's kind of a general theme of all the stuff that we've been talking about, where if it's a core guy, you can get away with more because you've just accepted each other at this point in your life. Right. Um, when you could do the same thing. And if you're not a core guy and you're doing it with the new guys, then you guys are like, what the hell is this guy deal? There's just a different level. It's kind of like the first few dates versus, you know, going to the bathroom with the door open when you're married. That's basically

what it is. So you don't want to add anybody to the group and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't, I'm kind of like that at times, but I would say, um, on this one, you know, how do you fix it? How do you do this? Well, you just, there's not really a fix. You decided to tell everybody, every place you've worked that you don't really want to hang out with them. And that's what you're going to be. And that's what they say to you behind your back, which isn't the worst thing to be called. I'm like, oh, that guy's kind of a dick. Doesn't want to be friends with anybody. I too would probably not go to a comedy show with a guy I had just met. Um, but I don't even know why you sent the email in a way because i think you already know all of this stuff kyle want to add add to this what does this guy give it off

pheromones or something is he fucking danny cordray in the office like wherever he goes people i just they they're just drawn to him what does this guy look like yeah is this the coolest guy that's ever emailed the show tired of people trying to bring me to shit as soon as i walk in a room fucking cool and people won't leave me alone no it's a great call by you because it's like everywhere i go people want want to hang out they just want a piece of it all right yeah what are you a fucking stunt man where do you work so i i don't have a problem with the guy i don't have a problem with anything he's saying i'm just going like there's no there's no real solution on this right i well speaking of i feel weird because like i'm just going like there's no there's no real solution on this right i well i just i feel weird because like i'm in the opposite position now all my friends have left

my place of work and so now now i have like no friends here and i wish people would come up to me you want strangers all right so if you guys see kyle walking around at any point in the la area just go up and ask him if you want to be best friends immediately speaking of the segues in perfectly because it's not a life advice, but I saw the email, so let's go. Thank you, Kyle, for pointing this one out. First time writing into the show, I was with my girlfriend in Manhattan Beach on Sunday and just so happened to run into Ryan.

He was parking and putting money in the meter and I was about to say hi. I normally never go up to anyone, but figured why not? I went to approach him and he turned his face, making eye contact with me. He gave me the meanest look i've ever seen it looked like he was in the ludicrous music video for get back or something like that side note ryan was rocking some um these are yeah so legends clothing made me some custom gear just for me so they they came with a logo and everything so it's a logo and then it says RSLO. Some of you may think it's lame.

I think it's fucking awesome. And shout out to Legends for doing it for me. They are, they were a gift from the guys over there. So they don't make them to sell or anything like that. So he said, more importantly, can we get these on the Ringer merch site? If so, I'll take a medium. Sorry, we don't, we don't sell them.

Nope, he can't seem to get them to anyone, so. Yeah, nobody's got them. There's only like a few ever made. And I gave one pair to my brother and Matt Bushman claiming a pair. And so, you know, we'll see. We'll see. But the stuff is really, really nice

and it's great to work out in. So yes, that's what I was wearing. So where are we going with this? Oh, anyway, so Ryan looked like an absolute asshole dressed in all black. I don't remember any of this i don't remember giving anyone a mean look i remember when i was going to cowherd hotel to meet with him we had breakfast cowherd called me at eight in the morning on sunday and says hey what are you doing right now i was like getting my day started i was about to work out he goes let's go power walk.

And at first, my first response was, okay, how do I say no to this? Because I definitely don't want to do it, but I'll be nice. And then I was like, no. I go, yeah, I don't want to do that at all. I was like, I'm not doing that. And he was like, okay.

All right then. I was like, what do you mean power walk? He goes, yeah, we'll go down to the Strand. We'll go like an hour. Go back and forth. I'm like, no. Yeah, I don't want to do that. Power walk? Am yeah we'll go down to the Strand in like an hour go back and forth I'm like nah yeah I don't want to do that power walk? Am I 100? I don't want to do that so he's like oh are you going to lift

I was like yeah probably I don't know I watch games I lift I sit at home and write sometimes I stare so anyway that's what I did I went to meet at Cowherd to have breakfast after his power walk and after I worked out so yeah I was dressed in workout gear and by the way if you're in manhattan beach look i don't even care about the manhattan beach part of it i was saying to somebody

the other day i think i've been in workout shorts and hoodies from legends for six months it's probably a year so um i guess i looked like an asshole in workout attire all right because i realized he was probably just in a rush to get food with cowherd after spending a stressful morning at car dealerships. The lesson to be learned is that people are dealing with shit. It's important not to judge. I was in a great mood. I just bought a brand new car and I was meeting up with cowherd who I like bullshit with.

So yeah, I don't know. I wear workout gear when I walk around town. What's up? All right. We also had a lot of people chime in on the buying car thing after bill and i did our segment on that there's a slight correction that that bill and i should have made in the moment but we didn't because we just got on a roll if you're buying and you're holding on to the car for a really long time and the apr is impacted by the down payment, then yes, then I would be okay with a down payment. Because if you're leasing a car, but you want to buy the

car after you lease, that's actually terrible. But if you're in a situation where you can lease the car, keep it for three to four years, and then you go, okay, now I'm getting another car. Some people do that. Some people are very into their cars. Some people look at a car and saying, I don't want any kind of payment and I'm going to drive it into the ground and I'm going to get a car every 15 years. Nobody's wrong in this. You do whatever you're going to do. But for Bill and I to give advice and then not mention that it's also a lease, because I've just never understood if you're going to do a lease, but you're expecting another car in another three to four years because you're in a situation where that's okay. Your budget allows for it.

Yeah. I wouldn't put any money down on a lease ever with that kind of stuff. And always be willing to walk away. Real estate, cars, wives. I'm just kidding. I'll throw that in there. All right, we should probably do one that's a little bit more, I don't know, serious.

What are you feeling right now, Kyle? Oh, I got one for you. This is a good one. All right, last one. 35-year-old American expat. You know what expat means, Kyle? I got an idea. Well, hold on.

Actually, no, I don't. That's a great example of how to define expat. I'd read it forever and didn't quite. I was like, yeah, well, do I actually know what the hell this means? It's just basically an American living abroad right oh i got it so you could you could understand it in the context of the sentence but you know if you're not sitting there on dictionary.com belichick either cut you or maybe you you you didn't get um or he was in like a group called like the patriots who like you know get a little riled up about the constitution or something and

now he left it i don't know i didn't know i didn't know exactly what i had no idea what he was talking about to be honest yeah i mean it's it's obviously a broader term of anyone living outside the order but you went like you thought richard caldwell was checking in from stuttgart that's right okay all right i don't think it's uh i don't think it's him all right 5 8 1 65 pull-ups max bad number if you weigh 165 pull-ups is low but he giving himself an 8 out of 10 you know what i like is when guys are doing the self-assessments there it'll be five but maybe a six or like hey i'm six but on a good day a seven no one ever goes'm a seven, but I can look like a five sometimes. People don't do that very often. And sometimes we all look like fives. That's a good point. Sometimes every day.

Been struggling with some of the rules in this country and the general strictness and fickiness of the people in the culture. I'll give you a few examples to illustrate my point. I live in a big apartment complex. When I take out the garbage, neighbors will watch me as if they're garbage umpires. There's no reason for this. I separate my garbage properly. It's not like I'm throwing the aluminum cans in a proper waste bin. Oh, in the paper waste bin. See, I already went international there. I said proper. All right. So he's not throwing the cans in the paper. It's really strange to have a silent person standing there watching your every move. It's not just me. This happens to other people too. I haven't said anything yet, but I do want to tell them to go away or mind their own business.

All right. Another garbage example. I was walking through town, had a plastic food wrapper that I wanted to dispose of. Think something the size of like a potato chip bag. I saw a set of garbage bins alongside the road. So I threw the small paper, the wrapper in a plastic bin out of nowhere. An older man pops out and asked me if I live here. I said, no. He then started raising his voice, was telling me that I'm not allowed to

throw away trash in these bins, that I guess they were designated for that particular building. I said something along the lines of, it's a tiny piece of plastic, man. This isn't a big deal. And then I started walking away and he continued yelling at me. He went into the bin, grabbed the wrapper, caught up to me and stuck it in my hand. I just kept walking and didn't bother to say anything back or argue with the guy. Also, the general strictness around walking paths, crosswalks, bike lanes. I've been yelled at for slightly deviating outside the boundaries in the bike lanes or not crossing the road at the spot where there's a crosswalk, even if there's no cars in sight. I've got good field awareness. Awesome.

So I'm never obstructing people or traffic if this happens. I've been yelled at a few times for parking my bike in places that aren't in the designated parking bike spots. Keep in mind, I'm conscientious. When I do this, if I lean my bike against a tree or a post, I make sure it's never in the way. And I only do this in situations when I'm in a hurry and the bike will be there for 10 minutes max.

Also, I've been yelled at for not turning my car off while I'm spending two freaking minutes to get my GPS situated before I get going. You're not allowed to leave your car running over here. Again, I'm cognizant of this rule occasionally, and we'll forget to turn off the car while I'm getting myself situated. Even had a guy knock on the window when I was in a grocery store parking lot waiting for the heat to get hot. I'm frustrated with the overall enforcement's obedience of every single little inconsequential rule over here. Thus far, I haven't lashed out back at anyone, but really want to tell some of these people either mind their own business,

chill out, man, fuck off, worry about something else, or maybe even, well, that's a pretty tough word to call them. I'm not going to advise that one. I speak German well enough for people to mostly understand me, and I mostly understand them.

As an American guest in their country, is it okay to occasionally tell off these people or must I always bite my tongue and just deal with it come back dude yeah why do you live there I mean you left that part out so it has to be

something if you said you're not in the military it has to be something that's worth your while but if it is this constant hassle I mean look how many things we touched on garbage to recycling, um, crosswalks, bike lanes, issues,

bike parking, idling car. We're at six. Kyle, you couldn't handle it there. If you were stationed in Heidelberg, you'd be back. You wouldn't even, you'd leave before the lease was up. Well, yeah.

I mean, it's like, it's also like, you know, do I want to be the ugly American? But I started getting upset for this guy. And it's like, wait, wait, that is an ugly American thing to be like, hey, fuck you, man. It's like, no, you're there. That's how it is. Like, but yeah, just bounce. I would have bounced. Bounce, dude.

I would have bounced. Well, he obviously has to be there for a reason. must like it like i actually love visiting germany but i mean it was i was 18 we were we were drinking beer the entire time and it was unbelievable um it's one of the best two weeks i think i've ever had my life which is pretty cool because in the moment i was like i don't just life get better than this we just had a. It was like a bunch of us and you know, we'd already kind of graduated, which was weird. So there wasn't really much we like no one imagine going on a high school trip with kids that have already graduated and they're all waiting to go away to college. Like none of us were going to listen to anything. Um, and then I hooked up with that biker gang.

So that was, that was kind of cool. Cause it worked out. And I was in, uh, and then I hooked up with that biker gang. So that was, that was kind of cool because it worked out. And I was in, uh, Oberbeugen, which was close to Venglingden. Um, if any of you guys are curious about that, but, um, let's think here. I just don't know. I don't know. You're not going to win any of these arguments, none of them. And I think it's a good reminder that like, think of, think of wherever you've been, maybe you've been vacationing somewhere maybe you're in New York City like I always say this is a joke because nobody ever gets mad at like anybody being mad at like somebody from Finland but like you walk around Times Square and it'd be like this monstrous couple with a huge boy named Gantz or something and he's fucking enormous and he's six six and the mom played

volleyball and they've got like maps out and they're just like in the way the whole time but nobody's already mad anybody from finland like some of my best friends are finland but there there can be things that you would see as your every day where you're like what the hell are you doing now times square is a bad example because you know other than bubblegum shrimp i don't even know why you're there. But it's like anything. Where I used to live, all the different travelers, all the different foreigners that we would have on Martha's Vineyard, and you'd just be like, what the hell are you doing?

So basically, that's who you are in whatever village that you live in Germany. You are wrong all the time. Now, Kyle and I agree with you. This seems ridiculous. Most of the people listening to this, I'm sure, are mostly Americans, other than shout out to New Zealand and Australia. We have, you know, we're on the same page, but this is a pointless fight. It's pointless.

Yeah, you could yell at a couple of guys. None of this is going to change. This is their culture. You are in it. And I would say adapt a little bit better. That's about the only way. If you're going to keep living there, you can drive yourself crazy.

You might be right about all of this stuff. The crosswalk thing can get really weird some places, but I mean, that'll be city by city. There's times where I think in Boston, we just run all over the place. We don't wait for the crosswalk, especially if you're downtown. You're just like, all right, I'm crossing the street.

There's other cities where you try to do that stuff and they're like, what the hell are you doing? So that's not even just an American thing. That can be city to city. So here you are in this country that is, by nature, rigid, and you're going to drive yourself crazy. you're going to drive yourself crazy. I mean, if you're sitting here complaining about this stuff now and you're 35, you either move or you start throwing garbage in your garbage bins. Kyle,

where are you with the dog shit and somebody else's bin thing? Ooh, see like that's where I think it, I mean, listen, I've thrown plenty of dog shit and plenty of random bins, but I do see where, I do see where that could be like a

crossing line like yo you want to throw your bottle in my fucking thing i'm glad you're not throwing on the ground because i watch so many people um throw stuff on the ground and bite my tongue because like my mom was a big like litter bug pointer outer so it's like in my blood where i'm like oh fucker but like i know that's not a good thing to fight over but so like i'm generally i think i'd be fine if i got garbage garbage bins on the curb, you guys throwing anything in there, but yeah, like a pile of dog shit. I could see where that's like, I I'm, I'm straddling the line on that. I think there's times when, uh, I think it's fine. And others where I would totally see why it's okay for you to be pissed off that somebody's throwing feces in your garbage bin. That's going to sit there for a week.

Every dog owner right now is going, what do mean there's nothing wrong with that i should be allowed to throw my dog's shit in your garbage i also see it with the long walk it's like hey we just started the walk we've got another you know 1.8 miles but i'm not carrying this bag of shit that's for sure i'm actually okay with it even though i don't love it is that fair that's exactly what i was trying to say and in that many words yeah because i mean it'll happen and i go That's exactly what I was trying to say. And in that many words. Yeah. Cause I mean, it'll happen. And then I go,

yeah, you know, I wouldn't want to walk around with that, but if it was happening all the time, like if all of a sudden my, you're at the pit stop. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. I think like I said, I'm okay with it, but I don't love it. There you go. All right. That's the end of the pod. We have an incredible pod for you on Thursday.

Uh, Nate Bargatze is going to join us again. He's got a new special out on Netflix, and we're going to pitch him some stand-up bits. And I already ran this by him, and he's so not into it that it could go awful. But we're doing it. Anyway, so I don't care But we're doing it. Anyway, so I don't care. We're doing it.

And then TBD on an NBA player who could be traded. We're not sure. So we're hoping we're still going to have him. It is not Kyle Lowry for those reading his convenient Instagram posts. We'll talk to you Thursday Thank you.