The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Defensive Metrics, Amateurism, and Conquering Kilimanjaro With Chris Long | Dual Threat With Ryen Russillo (Ep. 24)

Episode Date: February 21, 2019

Russillo talks with two-time Super Bowl champion Chris Long about NFL defensive metrics; Zion Williamson and "amateurism"; and his nonprofit, Water Boys, and its Conquering Kili program, in which combat veterans and NFL alumni climb Mount Kilimanjaro. This episode also features a surprise visit from Barstool Sports' Big Cat. https://waterboys.org/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

it's the dual threat podcast from the ringer network thank you for subscribing rating and reviewing and here's the plan we thought originally we hinted at this that we weren't sure if we're going to go much past the football season but since you guys still love this stuff uh we're going to keep doing it and we're going to do this backup quarterback thing that we're going to go much past the football season, but since you guys still love this stuff, we're going to keep doing it, and we're going to do this backup quarterback thing that we're working on. Heavy edits for that one. It's going to sound like cereal of football. And then, I got

traded to Arizona, and then that'll just be the tease for the next week. A couple other ideas, draft stuff, probably before and after a free agency, so we're going to ride this through sporadically. We'll keep you up to date on how the schedule is going to work. And we're going to tape one now. So joining me now, a guy that I think everybody here on the show knows.

I didn't realize this. One of my favorite pastimes is going on to basketball reference or pro football reference and looking up people's nicknames. Right now, he is the NFL's Walter Payton Man of the Year, a member of the Eagles. We'll get to all of this fun stuff. And just one of the best guys I know, it's Chris Long. Did you know, Chris, that under your profile on Pro Football Reference, that—

White Thunder? Yeah, White Thunder. That seems a little racist. There was—back when I was in St. Louis and Robert Quinn was the other end, and we had those really good years where we were like double digits. We had, we were,

we were Black Lightning, White Thunder. It kind of came from the Major League movies. You remember the Major League movies? Yeah. And the movie, in the movie,

where Willie Mays Hayes goes into acting. That's going to be in two, right? That's going to be in the second one, right? Yes. Yes, it is. Initially, I wanted to be White Lightning, like the moonshine, but Rob's a lot faster than me, so we thought that Black Lightning was probably more appropriate

and White Thunder being more appropriate with a more power-oriented pass rush game. The thing is, all right, so that one's at least a little legitimate. Like the one I always thought was amazing was when I looked up Peyton Manning one day to just, you know, I look at these sites, you know me, I'm all about research. And that his say, the sheriff, which I've never heard of, but I think I've brought it up on the radio before a couple years ago. And the other nickname that they have listed for him is the Caveman, which is a new addition.

I didn't even think that was on there last year. Maybe it's like Wikipedia. You know, you can just kind of enter things at will if you have an account. I'm not sure because I've never heard him called the Caveman. I heard the Sheriff, but, you know, I don't think of him as a nickname guy, honestly. No, not at all. The caveman's new. It might be like Wikipedia.

I think there's a kid that runs this site who just starts adding nicknames. I love pro football reference, but what really irks me is if you look at your weighted career average, I don't know how they figure it out, and there's some long as like a one when really you should have. Yeah. It's, it's, it's confusing, but I love the site because it's got a really deep database for any stats. I'm always looking at it to see like what other defense then did like back in the day, you know, cause I, I'm like a football fan. Like I grew up watching and I enjoy it. So I like the stats aspect of it. I like looking back and that's a cool site that you really can't beat it. Honestly. No, it's huge for me when I'm, whenever I have to go back and look at this stuff aspect of it. I like looking back, and that's a cool sight. You really can't beat it, honestly.

No, it's huge for me whenever I have to go back and look at this stuff and compare it. So, yeah, your first years in St. Louis, when you really deserve to be called White Thunder, would be year four, at least on sacks. But I always think that we're really bad, unless we're watching a team play every single week, and even if we're focusing in on the line play, we are really bad at being able to tell who is actually applying pressure to the opposing offense right i don't whenever i look at sack numbers yeah well that that probably but at

least for your position i can never i just think it's i guess if you have 15 sacks it means you're probably doing something right but i also think you could be incredible and have five sacks, and then people think you suck, and that's probably not true. And I'm not even talking about you. It can be misleading. It can be misleading. So, you know, like I would think about an example of a buddy of mine that I play with, Brandon Graham, who, you know,

has never been a double-digit sack guy. I'm not sure that he ever actually hit double digits. And, like, this year he had four sacks. But, I mean, he's got like 70 or 80 total pressures on the year, which is like up there towards the top of the league. And he, especially late in the year, when you move to the right end, he would just bully tackles, more finesse tackles. And he's really good in the run game, really disruptive.

And then you get some guys who, you know, will flash the high stat numbers, the sacks, you know, TFLs, and they might be taking a bunch of chances that, you know, hurt a team, you know, in the run game. Or, you know, maybe they're guys that, you know, 10 rushes that hit for average more that might, you know, hit some dingers. But, you know, they're not going to be the guys who strike out a bunch and hit a lot of home runs. There's guys like that in the league as well. So I think, you know, naturally, and I'm sympathetic to it because when I watch football, sometimes I catch myself, A, not focusing, just like a normal person. Whether I've got a beer in my hand or I'm watching the kids or I'm scrolling through Twitter, watching people's reactions to plays rather than really analyzing it.

But I'm also guilty of following the ball sometimes. And you've got to choose one thing. If you're going to watch a game without re-watching it you have to choose either i'm going to watch a position like line play uh or i'm going to watch the ball and the problem is there's a lot of color commentators who don't know a don't know football and b don't know line play um because the entry level thing is to kind of know the ball um but to know line play know the right terminology know the why know the ball. But to know line play, know the right terminology, know the why, know the what just happened, that's hard. It's even hard for things like, you know, what is it,

pro football focus, which everybody goes crazy about those grades, which I think, you know, if you can develop a metric for line play or any position on the field, it's good because it's like it's next level analytics or whatever. But I don't think sometimes they know the responsibilities of linemen. You know, there's so many things we could be doing. It could really throw the average fan off. So, yeah, it's complicated for sure.

I looked up Brandon Graham, the most sacks he's ever had, nine and a half last year. So 2017. Yeah, and he had a great year and again that's that's another reason why pro bowls are kind of worthless in my opinion um you know in my opinion last year he was a pro bowl player now he's been an alternate a bunch he's kind of like me he's like a 17 time alternate um so when i so in my you know how people in their bios, they go pro bowl, whatever, like, well, I can never say pro bowl, but I can say, you know, five time alternate. But you know, all that stuff is misleading. There's, there's not, there's no real good metric for that just sums up a defensive lineman's

effect on a game or their ability to play the game at a high level that you can just jam into one stat. And that's the problem. I mean, I, I think there's no substitute for tape, but then when you watch tape, you gotta know what you're looking at too. And I know it's kind of by virtue of being the biggest, baddest dudes on the field. It's like a caveman kind of position that people might pigeonhole it as, and it can be, but the analysis of it isn't anything but.

And that's where it gets lost in the wash a lot. By the way, I looked up his nickname, and it's Dr. G. Did you guys ever call him Dr. G? I've never called him Dr. G. I thought maybe because that was a Philadelphia thing. Actually, that's not true. That's not on there because that was a Philadelphia thing. Actually, that's not true. That's not on there. I just made that up.

No, it's not. But I believe it because, you know. I may add it right now. But he answers it on, you know. Yeah, add it. Add it. Hey, Kyle, get on that. Pay $10 for a sponsorship of this page and we'll call him Dr. G.

I want to ask you about that because I've tried to watch the line play more and more as I've gotten older. And I've admitted to you numerous times, like, I know that there's still so much stuff that I don't know about football. Like basketball, I usually can always figure it out. If I don't figure it out in the first time, I'll replay it and be like, okay, I see what they're doing there. Football is always funny to me because I feel like sometimes, especially when I was younger, if a guy had eight picks, he was an awesome corner. And then as you got older, you go, wait a minute, like this guy, all he's trying to do is get interceptions. He's getting torched all the time.

But then these guys end up, some of these guys end up being hall of famers because they have a total number of interceptions. I never know the corners never on TV. So how the hell do we know? So if I accept that and am willing to kind of just have an open mind where I go, I don't know that I'm ever right, but don't tell me that you know you're right. But then if former players on TV struggle with this, I can't imagine how frustrating that is.

But how does that happen? How is it that football becomes this thing? There's nothing, yes. Because there's 11 guys on the field, and there's a lot going on in a three to five second span. You know, I would imagine that soccer or football i i don't know enough about i know enough to be a casual fan did you just correct soccer did you just correct soccer to football you have to do you have to do that so you don't offend

certain listeners because they are to worry about it in this podcast right soccer twitter is up there with baseball twitter um so i i would, like, you just have to understand that even some of the players and the pros don't know everything about football. Like, there's things about coverages I have no idea. And, you know, I'm not afraid to ask questions. And I'll probably learn more about coverages and certain things on the back end more when I retire than while I'm playing. And I think that speaks for a lot of D linemen. Um, but what really does bother you is when you get, when, when you sit there and you know, you had a good game and maybe you didn't flash on the statute, uh, or you've had

a good stretch of games and you have, you know, one or two sacks to show for it, but you're playing lights out and you hear a talking head that used to play and should know better. That's when it really bothered. So can I just jump in there? Cause look, I, I've started to notice more of watching just line play. I'll notice certain guys and your, your stats would back this up is that the pressures and the hurries or, you know, however you want to phrase it, whatever thing, like you're always really good at that. Have you ever been asked when you haven't had sacks where you know a guy has no idea what he's talking about and he's asking the locker room,

why are you off to a slow start or why has this been a bad stretch for you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you feel when that happens? Well, you feel like you're trapped in this bubble and nobody understands you. I mean, I think I could speak for other players. Like, listen, the last game we played, the link this year,

I had two sacks and played really well, but was not my best game of the year by any stretch of the imagination. And, you know, you get in front of the reporters and it's a big game, so people get carried away, you know, playoffs are on the line and whatnot. You know, people are like, man, you know, you picked a great time to play your best game probably since you've been in this uniform. And it is not, I mean,

there were two plays that BG got good pressure on one of them and, and moved the quarterbacks drop target back to nine yards, which allowed me to run the hump. and I had a good getoff, and I ended up with a strip sack. But there's so much that goes into a play like that that people don't realize. A lot of times, even coaches, they'll put up highlight reels sometimes, and you'll look at rushing highlight reels, and if they just put the sacks on them, you're missing the best rush

because the result of a great rush is dependent on a lot of other things. You know, you know, it's dependent on coverage. It's dependent on, you know, the quarterback's drop target. If the quarterback said that six yards, it's going to be hard as an edge player to win with speed. If he's somebody who can't see well over the line or gets uncomfortable in the pocket and bails out the back, you know, there's games where I played Russell Wilson and ended up with three sacks and they weren't great rushes. They were just stay alive type rushes because he extends things. So I think it's kind of arbitrary.

Sack is a good number. Like you said, if somebody has 15 chances are they're doing something right. A lot of the time, but my best year when I had 13 might not have been as efficient of a year as maybe last year or the year before that or a year I had 8.5 or whatever. So I think I speak for a lot of players when I say I can be frustrated as a rusher because people like to boil it down to such a simple metric.

But there's a lot that goes into it. And you can cause other people to make plays. Fletcher Cox creates a lot of stats for other people. Brandon Graham's done it. I've done it before. Michael Bennett does it. So sometimes it's not always the guy who gets home that made the play. So you're kind of been a year-to-year guy now, right?

I'm that guy. You're that guy. And I wanted to get all the Kilimanjaro stuff here in a bit, but I think it's at least important to ask because, again, it's not like we've known each other our whole lives here, but I know how much the St. Louis thing meant to you. I know how much you appreciated a chance, especially to get a ring and be in Foxboro, which is a different living situation.

None of you guys are really living up in Boston. Only a few guys are. And it's kind of this thing where when you go to the Patriots, it's like, all right, so I'm going to live in this suburb. But it just feels like you and so many of your teammates

have embraced this Philadelphia thing in a way that I think people outside of Philadelphia wouldn't quite understand. I mean, I do not pretend to know Philadelphia at all. When I lived in Princeton and worked in Trenton, Philadelphia thing in a way that I think people outside of Philadelphia wouldn't quite understand. I mean, I do not pretend to know Philadelphia at all. When I lived in Princeton and worked in Trenton, I had no money. I was a loser. I was working all the time. I went to Philly twice and I was like, this is like a meaner Boston, which I don't think is totally inaccurate, but I am, I guess, but I'm really impressed with how, how much it just feels like there's this connection. Now,

granted, look, you won the first championship for this team in forever, but what is it about Philly that it seems like every one of you dudes on this team absolutely loves? Well, you just said it. One big part of it is that knowing that we're good forever in that city.

I mean, you, you, you could win another five and we were a part of the first one. So that's something that's going to be special forever. It's always going to be a home in a way away from home. And so, you know, like you, you alluded to it, you know, like for instance, I enjoy it a lot about my year in Boston, but it was not a year in Boston.

It was a year in Foxborough, you know, in Foxborough being an hour outside the city, depending on traffic, which is brutal up there. You never really get to experience the city. If you're in St. Louis for eight years, you know, the facility's 30 minutes outside the city. But being there that long, I really got to know St. Louis and loved it. You know, and in Philly, one thing that's super cool about it, and not enough teams and cities do this, I think. But all the sports complexes are in kind of the city. I mean, they're in South Philly. They're right there. You know, I go to work right next to the flyer spot, the Sixers, you know,

and the Phillies. And I just think it's cool. It's a cool community kind of vibe and Philly's just, it's the right size city. You i had never lived in in a city downtown before so it was kind of cool for me um and and where i live back home it's a small town so for my family it's been really cool it's been a change of pace and um i just think it's the right size city if you want to get on a train go up new york get down to dc you can do that pretty easily and i gotta say i don't know if the Eagles play well lately, but people have been pretty nice.

And I enjoy them. And there's a culture there. I mean, there is a real culture, and it is blue collar. So, you know, I think as players, if you work your ass off and you show the city respect and you show the fans respect, that's what they want and that's all they ask. And they ask for winning, too. And I've heard about the snowball and the Santa thing,

but who doesn't throw a snowball at Santa Claus every once in a while? Yeah, I mean, it's a great city. So this past offseason, you've got that on your plate. I'm trying to figure that out. I selfishly want you to go with the Rams, but I think your wife's probably afraid that I'm going to be stopping by all the time. But if you do sign with the Rams, you can just tell her that now that I've learned this, no one visits anyone ever here in L.A.

So when you're going to be up there... You're completely isolated. Yeah. Nobody in L.A. cares. Like L.A., no offense, but you would think L. would think la is kind of superficial so it's hard to make friends there anyways it's made like new friends no i haven't made any new friends i i'm totally serious friends won't visit you so you're kind of just like on a deserted island yeah right like we have i have friends all over los angeles but if they're not in the neighborhood nobody

i've had one person visit me in manhattan beach my house is nice and I can see the water and it's, I think it's sick and people are beautiful. Right. And people go, that's great, man. It's an hour away, dude. Yeah, it is great. But like when, when you, when you're in South Bay, like if you try to like, Hey, I think I'm going to drive anywhere East.

Like, you know, you could literally be trapped, you know, like in other cities, if you get stuck in traffic, you're like, man, I can give up and just turn around. No, like in LA, cause I trained there one off season. Like I drove from Manhattan beach and actually it was like, I was on a whim, like ish, this is before kids. I wanted to go to Vegas. So I went togas for a weekend with some buddies and like i left at the wrong time and i literally was trapped i was trapped for three hours like i couldn't turn around and give up i had to stick with it and it like it extended the trip by a solid three hours it was ridiculous so yeah i'm not a big traffic fan i can't even imagine i only

can do this because i if i were five days a week and i had to do it i've told everybody that I'm close to, I go, I just wouldn't do it. And I love it out here. And I love, you know, my thing is that when I can roll back and head back to Manhattan Beach and I've got my little village and routine and I see the water, it's incredible. And you know what? I hadn't even drove down to like Palos Verdes or Palos Verdes Estates. I hadn't ever done that.

And the other day I kind of had like a half day free. And I was like, just wake up tomorrow morning, get in the car and just drive South and drive down the coastline and see what it's like. And you just sit there and be like, I can't believe this is 15 minutes away. And this is crazy. And this is not, but the thing is nobody, the stuff you want, the stuff you really like would want to see, it's easy to pop there. But like, if you want to go to like, I don't know what they call it the beverly center like yeah right shop i was there yesterday like it's who wants to be there i mean like shop online dude it was it was an hour and a half in hour back you can't you amazon prime some of that shit like

i couldn't not what i was i was presenting at a podcast up front so that can't be amazon that they needed the real experience do that yeah but another thing about about la and living in manhattan beach is like you remember that movie with the big tidal wave ghost dad and everybody had it huh no um let me let me go back i've got to look it up so like in the event that there's a giant tsunami like you're you're the first one to bite the dust just know that yeah there was a giant tsunami, like, you're the first one to bite the dust. Just know that. Yeah, there was a total clickbait thing the other day where it's like, scientists predict 40 days of rain. And I'm like, what is this?

Are we merging science with religion? Because I don't believe that Noah story at all. And I'm looking, yeah, right. It'd be like, come on, dude. That many animals on one boat? That doesn't make a ton of sense. I mean, there's a lot of ways the world could end. Like, you're talking about, like, have you heard about the Yellowstone Caldera?

No, what is that? That sounds terrible. And I'm going to butcher this, but, like, Yellowstone is like a big volcano. Like, supposedly. Now, somebody's going to be listening to this like, no, it's actually, yeah. No matter what you say, it's not, but, but like in short,

it's like a ticking time bomb. And when that thing erupts, like the entire world is going to be covered in like volcanic ash, like from us, you know, that's going to block the sun and stuff. And this, I'm,

I'm butchering the hell out of this, but in summation, sounds accurate. Like by the time it stuff. And this, I'm, I'm butchering the hell out of this, but in summation, sounds accurate to me by the time it hits the news, like, like, Oh, wow. West will be like obliterated.

All right. So we're talking like, that's right there in yellow. We're talking driving down Montana through Wyoming is what you're talking about. We're talking all that's gone. That's a lovely area too. Yeah. So,

so that doesn't get you, the tsunami is going to get you down there. Um, but actually like when, you know, I trained in Montana and like one summer, two summers ago, there was actually an earthquake up there. And, uh, the first thing after I thought it was a ghost, it was like in the middle of the night, I felt ghost shaking my bed. And I got up and first thing on my mind was the Yellowstone called Eric. Here we go. We're going to die right,

right here. Just like that. Luckily it wasn't, but Google it and you're going to be scared. You're going to be scared. I wish I hadn't done more research on it ahead of this. And we could have really broken it down. I think the movie is the movie you're actually thinking about 2009 drama

slash thriller title wave. No, no. It's a movie like from when I was in high school where like, there's this dude and he's like on a four wheeler and he's trying to save like his girlfriend. And they're like, they're like riding through traffic around the interstate.

Cause it's all backed up and the waves come in and they're trying to get up in the mountains. And then there's this scene where this woman's on the beach and the tidal waves are coming. It's dramatic. It's like 600 feet high. And she's like, well, I guess we're just going to stand here and I just picture that's going to be you. Who are you going to enjoy

that moment with? NBA League Pass? Just the two of us? You clutch your iPad? Yeah, right. I'm just going to go. This is it. I'm going to sit there and put my sneakers and bags just in case they can survive

so my brother can inherit the sneaker collection. Look, I looked at this rain story the other day at LA Times and it said this rain is going to be 40 straight days. You're going to get 38,000 cubic feet of rain a day and on and on and on. And I was ready to start looking at what Zillow said about my house. And then I read further. Shockingly,

I read further in the article, uh, Chris is a new thing kids are doing is they're reading the entire article. And the article was like, yeah, scientists still debate the, you know, the validity of this.

And it may not even be 40 or 50 years. I was ready to start listing stuff. So, okay. So here's a list, But people tweeted it out like it was real. Alright, list. Here's a list. Okay. So Noah's Ark, but Ryan built the Ark, assuming you were handy enough to build an Ark for, you know, and you had to take media members with you. So you had to save media members. Oh my god. So you could pass their lineage down for generation to save them from the

flood. Who are you taking? So I have to take, all right, first of all, I think I'm handy enough, but boat building is an entirely different challenge because you just start, I mean,

whenever you're talking about that kind of material, it's different. Uh, just assume that you can build a boat. Oh, okay. Media members. So I, how many can I take? Cause you love build a boat. Oh, okay. Media members. So how many can I take?

Because you love to rank stuff. You can take 15. 15? I don't even know if I can name 15. It's a big boat. It's a big boat. Okay. So I got to take SVP.

You want to work on that and tweet it later? Yeah, I think I should. I think I should tweet it later. But then if I tweet it out, then all the people I've left off, when I've even said I don't even know if I can come up with 15 that I would care enough about, that... Well, how do you think the animals that didn't make it on the Arkville? Never thought about that. Is the Mastodon one? Your boy, what's his name? Ravel. Is he not going to make it? Ravel, we may need a business guy,

despite the fact that I disagree with a lot of his stock analysis. That was... Man, you really... I was kind of looking at his Twitter last night during the Zion thing. Yeah. And I was kind of thinking

people were really giving it to him, and I didn't think it was fair because you can't get mad at him for bringing up the Nike stock right after the injury because like you that's like getting mad at a at a stat sheet or a box score like that's literally what his his account is but then I saw you kind of got mad at him so I was like oh this is awkward I think Ravel misunderstood uh that he thought maybe I thought he was being insensitive about an injury because that happens on Twitter now

if somebody gets hurt and then anybody says anything, that's any kind of analysis of what it could mean for the injury, then it's, you're the most insensitive guy ever. Right. So I think that's what he thought. Well, I know that I got compared to a guy that I don't like when I tweeted out about Gordon Hayward going down, I was like, now expect Marcus smart to try to really force his will offensively. And it's like, how dare you? How dare you, sir? And I'm just like, wait a minute. If I were doing a halftime show, Gordon Hayward's down. That's what you would say.

That's what I would do. And it wasn't even remotely insensitive. But then I think what happened is somebody compared me to Skip Bayless, and that's going to set me off. And Skip's tweet was an easy east. No, Skip's tweet right after Hayward's ankle snaps in half was LeBron who's been living off an easy East. The conference just got easier.

So he found a way to shit on LeBron when Gordon Hayward broke. Right. So like I go, don't class me in with that because he was finding a way to be him and I was simply providing what was going to happen with the offense. So I'm always a little context that stuff matters. And, and actually I'm not even saying this jokingly.

I enjoy Lavelle's account. Wow. But it was funny. Somebody, yeah, I know it's a, it's one of those like guilty pleasures. Like I'm like,

let's see what Darren's talking about tonight. It's a guilty pleasure. you know, who did, who didn't think about Nike last night? Like the first thing. And, and like, literally as a UVA fan, uh, I was still crushed for that kid. I mean, like if it had been worse, which it looked like it really could have been so awkward. You can't imagine like how athletic he is that, that, that didn't really hurt him worse. Um, but I, I was crushed for him hypothetically. Um, I was like, is he going to be one of these names? Like, you know, that, that like a what if name or, you know, is he going to be kind of the poster child for, you know, the death of amateurism in college basketball? And of course everybody goes right at college basketball and that's not

insensitive to turn the conversation to college basketball and amateurism, college basketball. And of course, everybody goes right at college basketball. And that's not insensitive to turn the conversation to college basketball and amateurism, but it's really insensitive to talk about Nike and how they should probably be able to make a shoe that a 280-pound athlete can wear and it doesn't explode. I mean, like, that to me is unbelievable. Right. Well, you know, some of it today was, you know, Paul George has a shoe designed for him, which is a completely different body type.

And the thing is, though, the Georges are really nice. Like they're comfortable. They're light. Like some of the signature shoes. My brother, I bought a pair for my brother who hoops and, you know, he let me run around in them and I liked him. I go, you know, I honestly won't buy a signature shoe i'm this stupid if i don't like your personality i won't play in your shoe right well no that's not stupid i mean but also i think i think there's it's unparalleled with with zion like athletically he's unparalleled and when you pair it with his his kind of visibility

over the past 20 years i can't think of somebody who's as athletic and as unique from like a force perspective like every step he takes and his visibility and and the ramifications for a shoe company i mean like that perfect storm you would think and obviously he can't because he's in college maybe one of the most screwed up things is that he doesn't have a shoe that that fits him well and all this is riding on this kid who can't because he's in college maybe one of the most screwed up things is that he doesn't have a shoe that that fits him well and all this is riding on this kid who can't have a shoe now forget about not getting paid i mean this guy athletically is so unique i'm not gonna i'm not taking a dump on nike over this because listen football nike cleats i mean like they don't make money off nike cleats like so so imagine how janky those are.

I mean, we're the ones who really get the raw end of the deal. I mean, talk about like a lot of force, a lot of violence. And Nike doesn't care about making football cleats. But now I wear them because they fit well. But, you know, basketball is where the money is. And that shoe exploded. That's kind of scary to think about. Okay, but this is the thing.

Everything you said is fair there, but my problem isn't even with Revell specifically. It's with anybody that analyzes stocks in the moment as if that's what it really is. It's the same thing as the Nike stock, where anyone who was conservative when the stock went down, they blamed Kaepernick, which was stupid. And the same way anybody that was at the extreme left

did a victory lap when the stock went up, and they tried to it straight to like Kaepernick hoodies. And you're like, first of all, I'm not even, I admit there's so much about finance. I don't understand, but if you've had a portfolio at all, or you've talked to anybody and you've lost money and made money on stock, right? Portfolio. How's yours, Greg? Strong to quite strong. Um, it would be like to say, cause the Nike stock went down 1% today and then say, well, if you look at their market cap, it's a billion dollar to $3 billion loss. But like, that's not really what it is. It would be like going outside and it's cold and then turning your family going, well, it's cold outside. It'll probably be cold now for the

rest of our lives. Like that's not, no one would ever look at a stock that way and analyze it and go, oh, they're down 1% because of what happened. I actually want to ask you a more important question about sound. Um, you, I don't, I don't know where you're at with this actually, cause we haven't talked about it, but you know, I've always felt like guys should go high school to the pros because they just should be able to do that. But I'm also not this anti-NCA guy that I think is very popular on social media, very popular with media members. And I look at somebody like you that loved your time at UVA. And I think with people that are saying, oh, Zion, you should never ever play again. Well, if Zion goes, you know what? We're

really good. We have a chance to win a national championship. Guess what? This is fun. And yeah, I had a little scare, but the likelihood I blow my leg out and, and screw up my NBA career isn't high. Like I want to come back and play. So how do you see that conversation and then add in your thoughts of, well, if it morality is in question here, it should be straight from high school to the pros. What about NFL guys? Yeah. So, I mean, um, I don't know that people are, I think the jump from high school to pros in football, it's not a hot take to say that one's a little bit bigger of a leap. You know, as far as basketball players, if I wasn't going to a big time program and I wanted to monetize myself immediately, I'd go play in Europe, right? Right. And you know more about that than I do.

I mean, guys do have options, but I do wish they could go straight to the pros. I mean, like, that's just me. I just, I just think for some guys, maybe they really want that college experience. A guy like Zion, you know, he wins a national championship this year. You know, if they find a way to beat Virginia three times, uh, and he wins national championship, uh, this year. Um, he's a legend at Duke forever and whatever, for whatever that's worth to him, the injury rate, so much lower in basketball. I'm not one of these people who woke up today and was like, well, he should never play at Duke again, you know, or he should sit out. I think that's kind of dumb.

Um, but I'm also a huge proponent of athletes getting paid. And I'm definitely, you know, I've been on record a bunch of times, which at this point is not a unique take to think that, you know, amateurism is getting stale and it's screwed up. I mean, when you look at how much money is brought into these programs, I'm not professing that I have the system, um, or that every player should be treated equally or compensated the same across all sports. But a lot of people have used the complication of finding a solution as kind of this, this argumentative

shield. So, you know, I've heard a lot of folks say, well, it's too complicated, so we shouldn't even try. Yeah, that's not right. When their issue is really that they don't want a 19-year-old kid making more money than them, and they to make amateurism seem like, uh, with college basketball and college football, especially, I wonder why, um, like this kind of sacred thing. Um, why not at least start with kids letting, um, letting kids, um, profit off their likeness. Yeah. Then it's a free market. However popular you are, you want to go to a car dealership, make a little money, do a signing, make a little money, do a signing.

People are going to buy your jerseys. Whoever's jersey sells the most, compensate that person. And I think the right way to do it is to work towards a solution where guys get paid. But a prerequisite for wanting guys to get paid is not I have the solution right here. It would be complicated. But, you know, that's that's what being progressive is all about. And I don't mean that in a political sense.

I just mean being progressive in a sense of like we can see that there's an imbalance here. These kids are doing the heavy lifting and they're risking a lot to play. Now, you can go get an insurance policy. I got an insurance policy my senior year, but also most kids didn't have a dad who played in the NFL for 13 years and had some money to throw around to do an insurance policy.

I think Zion, does he have an insurance policy? He has one. The school can pay for him now, so there's been some real progress with that. So look at that. I wouldn't have come back for my senior year, because I almost left my junior year when I got

my draft grade back. It was bottom of the first round. I thought I really wanted to finish. It was important to me. I love Charlottesville. I grew up here as a UVA fan. So for me, it was maybe a little more sentimental than for most people. And I thought I could have a great year. Everybody advised me to leave. They said, your stock can't get any better. And I had a

really good year. Now I'm glad I stayed, but for a lot of people, maybe that's not the same conversation. I talked to Anthony Poindexter, who's the best college football player I've ever seen. And I'm biased, but if you remember Dex, he was tremendous and got hurt his senior year against NC State towards ACL. So it could go that way. But at the end of the day, I think it's up to each individual player. But as far as the larger conversation, you can't just stonewall the conversation because it's complicated. And you can't do it because you have this romantic idea of amateurism. And your number one argument can't be, well, they're already getting a free education. So what more do you want?

Because you're arguing against yourself because you've assigned them a market value by giving them a free education. Like you have acknowledged that they have a market value because you're not just giving it to them for no reason. You're giving it to them in exchange for being good at basketball. That was a good answer. Um, because I,

I look, I agree with that too. Oh, wait a minute. We have what you're saying. What's your, if you're saying they're worth a scholarship but not worth being compensated fairly, then you're saying you're okay with them getting paid

but not getting paid what they're worth. So if they're worth something more and you're not okay with it, then you're just not a fair person. So if you're really for amateurism, do away with scholarships and see how good, you know, your college basketball

and your college football are with kids that need to afford college. Okay, I want to pivot here because we know Kilimanjaro's coming up and we know, when's the hike? Too soon, like February or March 4th, I think I'm going to be there and go. All right.

So we, we know we're going to get the list of players from you, but we have a special guest who wants to commit to the Kilimanjaro hike in 2020. Big cat. Oh God. Hello, Chris. You're the poster child for flaking. Hold on. Let's, let's talk this out because ryan uh text me i'd like you to come on and announce that you will be joining uh the water boys and and hiking up kilimanjaro in 2020 which i am ready to say i'm ready to declare that i will hike a mountain with

you in 2020 but i'd like to maybe shift our focus onto some of the mountains that are in America. And I have a list of, of some of the peaks that we could possibly do. Cause listen, you do Kilimanjaro one. Why are you going to do it again? Right?

Yeah, sure. Such a MAGA guy. Okay. Well, listen, listen, listen,

have you, have you listened? Listen, what about Mount Fairweather? I don't know that one. listen, listen, listen. Have you listened? Listen. What about Mount Fairweather? I know that one. Is it in like Ohio? No, it's actually in Philadelphia. What about Mount?

That was a cheap, easy joke. What about Mount Bear? Then we could get Kyle involved. Where's that one? That's in Alaska. Could be tall, but probably not since it's on your list. Okay. 14,000 feet. That's pretty cool.

Fairweather's not a real Malin. Yeah, okay. All right. Mount Rainier. Everyone knows Mount Rainier. Ooh, that's a good one. If you summit Mount Rainier in the next year, I will do something. I don't know what.

It's not going to be a tattoo. I already got the whole tattoo thing. I already got one lost pet tattoo. Here's my problem. I want to climb them out with you. I want to help your cause. But you do this every year in March when March Madness is getting going

and conference tournament play. I can't be away from a team for that long. That's a good point. So I'm trying to meet you halfway. I have more mountains in America that we could easily do. We could do Mount Massive in Colorado. I mean, what's cooler than that? Well, nothing, but you make a great point.

As the kind of top dog at waterboys.org, I have the authority to move the hike so that it's agreeable for you because I totally respect your situation with being a serious sportscaster and all that and having to see March Madness. So we can move it to late February. We'll just, let's put that on the books right now.

I'm going to text Nicole Woody, who runs my foundation. Shout out to Nicole. Late February next year. So it's booked. And that shouldn't be a problem for you, right? So, alright. I'm in if Ryan is in. I will climb Mount Kilimanjaro

next February if Ryan is also in. It's March. Guys, don't commit yet. We can do this whole tease online where we raise a bunch of money and you know, we can say hey, if we raise 100k, Stoolies, you know, Big Cat's going to go up the mountain. Or the Ringer.

Or the Ringer. Yeah, all the Ringer bros. We have hoodies coming. Hey, Ryan, what do Ringer bros look like? They love to jewel. Hey, Ryan, what do ringer bros look like? They love to jewel. Kyle, who's Bill's nephew, he's wearing these. What jeans are those, Kyle?

Are those broken in? They're Levi's, Ryan. Those are Levi's? Is that... Is Acid Wash back? Acid Wash never left, bro. Oh, all right. I feel like the biggest bag of shit when I don't go, because one year I was like, oh,

I'm doing this. I did zero research. I was like, I'm in. You were pumped. You're like, we're going to help you raise money. And then I go, all right, let me talk to ESPN about getting the time off. And then I was like, how many days do I need here? Like I was acting like I was going to go to Africa for a long weekend.

It's a 10 day trip. Yeah. And you're like, and so I didn't realize that. And I'm like, there's no way I can do this now. And I even started to like from the first conversation to actually doing research weeks later. And I said,

Hey, how hard is this? Just be honest. And he said, you'll be fine, but don't skip leg day. So I actually started doing the stair master every day for a good stretch. Just getting,

I was in training. And then I go, wait a minute. I got to buy. What happened to your calves, bro? My calves are great. Don't even don't even Ryan, you actually got, you actually got Ryan, you got further along than me because what happened with me was I said I would do it. And then like two months before the hike, Nicole from Chris's foundation emailed me with like a list of provisions.

Yeah, I know. It's nuts. A little intimidating. What? I was like, hold on. I like, we're, I thought we were going for a stroll. Yeah. Maybe.

I totally misread it. That Instagram mountain they do in LA where everyone walks up with their dog and take the picture. We eat at Chewy Bar and they're like, we saved a bunch of lives and now it's going to be it. No. So here's the thing. Have you done the Hollywood sign?

I can looking at it right now. As soon as I leave the studios here, I want to say that I'm, I want to say that I'm in, but you're right. Let's we'll build it up. And I think big cat committed at least next year. I don't know that.

I mean, no, I'm going to build it up as well. Yeah. You know what? At the very least, we can do like a hologram thing. If you flake out,

like I know you will. You know, I was at Coachella the year they did the Tupac hologram. So maybe we can bring that like a big cat hologram up there and pose you at the summit. I'm totally fine for that. The last one I'm just going to throw out there, Long's Peak in Colorado. I'm totally fine for that.

The last one I'm just going to throw out there, Long's Peak in Colorado. I mean, that makes too much sense. Why don't we just do that? Let's just meet in the middle, go to Colorado, we'll hang out, maybe hit up Vail. It's legal there, all that stuff. Yeah, it is.

So we can just go right up Long's Peak and we'll call it a day. It sure is. Okay. Well, maybe we can do that to train. Yeah, Chris, you and i can train at that one hey uh every year every year i say every year i say this is a true story every year i joke about this my last one like this is my last one because it can be kind of it can be tough but then every

year i get exciting new commits uh like yourselves so i'm really excited to hear you're on board for 2020 uh i'm gonna pull apart my take right now, and I'm going to say thank you for committing, Big Cat. You heard it here first. And I can't wait to see you on the mountain. And I'm excited to know that there's a primary school in Tanzania that doesn't have any clean water that's depending on you. They already have Big Cat posters in their classrooms.

And, yeah, it's going to be great. Okay, fine. I'll, I'm going to let you guys get back to your podcast, but just know this, Chris, I have a problem committing to things in the future, but I have, don't put it past me to like abduct myself. Like that guy who has all the Bitcoin who just went disappearing in India. So next February, if you just see that I'm just gone, I'll probably be back in March. Don't worry. No one send that. No one get too, too worried about it.

I'm just trying to get out of my Kilimanjaro commitment. You got it. I love it. All right. See you guys. Thanks. Okay. See you.

I think my favorite part of that was that when you do get the list of provisions that you need, you're like, hold, wait a minute. This is like, I just grabbed the backpack. It can be repetitive because it sounds like you need eight different types of pants, you need, you're like, hold, wait a minute. This is like, I just grabbed the backpack. It can be repetitive because it sounds like you need eight different types of pants, you

know, three different types of sunglasses. You know, I always, I always tell people the most important thing to pack is actually a pee bottle. This is kind of nasty, but when you, you take altitude medicine, it makes you pee a lot. And in the middle of the night, the last thing you want to do is get out of your tent at 15,000 feet. It's 25 degrees. You're trying to sleep. This year, I'm going to be listening to three interior linemen snoring from the tent over because we got Haloti Nada, Bo Allen, Jason Kelsey. I'm thinking Haloti Nata might be the largest man to ever summit. We're working on checking to see if there's a way we can get that in the

record books, but it should be a good year. We got like, here's my list. We got Bo Allen, Cortland Finnegan, Jason Kelsey, Haloti Nata, Rob Ninkovich. Hold on, before we get to Ninkovich, what happens if Cortland Finnegan starts a fight with another guy on the way up the hike?

Are you worried about that? I think he's actually the most chill guy you could imagine. So it sucks that he's known for getting in a fight with somebody twice his size. But he's not the type to back down. No, I know.

And I'm glad I'm not making this joke the year I'm going to hike either. Yeah, because he might swell your eye up on the clock. Okay, so continue with the list. I'm sorry I interrupted. No, Rob Nankovic and David Vibora, who was Mr. Relevant from my year, and you know Dave, and has done awesome stuff with vets ever since. He's a great dude. In Dallas, he has this big gym, adaptive training that does great work with veterans who are

overcoming certain physical disabilities from serving. And we do have a lot of, we got a lot of vets this year. We've got, I think, four Marines and two Army. So, you know, we've had amputees summit before. We had the first female above the knee amputee to summit Kilimanjaro. And you talk about a 20,000-foot mountain. And, you know, Kirstie Ennis, who was a helicopter gunner, lost her leg serving our country, was able to get to the top. We had Ivan go as well, who was blinded and active duty.

He got to the top. So it's really hard to quit when you're climbing with folks like that. My buddy, Elliot Ruiz, who actually lives in LA, maybe I can hook you up with him as a friend because you know I have a big friend in LA. He's from North Philly.

He's an Eagles fan. Got to know him a lot last year and he's one of my favorite guys I've climbed with. He stepped on a mine, and he was told that he wasn't going to walk again without assistance, and here he was at the top of the mountain. So very cool. Very, on a serious note, one of my favorite things we do.

And, you know, you can check us out at waterboys.org and read about Conqueror Kelly and donate. All right. I want to ask you one more question because we're going maybe, I don't know how long you thought we were going to go or not. I don't want people walking around the house, but we've got waterboys.org. You're good. As long as my wife hasn't walked in and given me, you know, the look.

Stop playing with your friends on the phone look. No, but I do want to make it known. I mean, the reason you win the NFL's man of the year, the Waldorf Payton Award, is that we're now and check my stats here because I'm on the website. But we're at 55 wells funded. That's over 205,000 people that have served with clean water. And you've done, is it 56 wells? 56 wells. I already said that.

It's over half a million. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to donate today. You can just go right to Waterboys.org and you can donate. Waterboys.org is not a good site. No, that one,

that site has been shut down. You can do six bucks, which is for one person. So can you just, for the final part of this, because I think this is the real stuff. This is the good stuff. And, this is the good stuff. And it sucks in today's world.

I know everybody's cynical, and I know I'm cynical about a million things, but I just know you. And when I tell people about you, I go, no, man, like the dude, you went to Africa and you decided to make a change. So tell me about the beginning part of that and then ultimately what you've been able to do, because I don't know if people in the States truly understand what a well for clean water can do for these villages. Yeah, no doubt. Um, you know, well, water crisis is, is a, is a terrible, terrible issue that we're kind of, and I say, kind of, um, living in a bubble, um, from, uh, you know, everybody sees it when, when our water sources are contaminated or disrupted, how disrupted it can be in a first world society.

You know, my first look was like in 2013, I went to Kilimanjaro in Tanzania to climb with a former teammate, James Hall, who's one of my best buddies and was kind of like a big brother to me. His career was winding down. I was kind of in the prime of mind and, you know know i wanted to travel i wanted to see the world a little bit more and so i picked this spot and uh you know jeff fisher had been up with uh window warriors before and i kind of went up in his office he had just signed with the rams as the head coach and i go coach i saw you climbing that mountain would you advise it as something as a good climb? Cause you know, I do some hiking and mountaineering, you know, and I'd like to do it. And he's like, yeah,

it was great. Like, you know, it's really hard, but it was great. Like, what do you think about going? I was like, well, in two months and he kind of looked at me like, uh, you're absolutely nuts, but you know, uh, there was nothing in my contract against it. So I went up and, um, I brought James. We had this awesome time, and it was a great challenge. We also met a lot of wonderful people. The reason I went was the mountain, but I was able to have this long-lasting relationship that started with the community and with the people I met.

When I came back, I realized there was this niche in pro sports that's unoccupied for like an alliance of players across any league that are doing these large solar-powered sustainable wells that serve up to 7,500 people a pop. And they go for about $45K K of fundraising a little north of that when you add admin costs. But we started with a goal of thirty two wells for thirty two NFL teams. I wanted a representative on each team because, you know, when I was in St. Louis, it's a great place to play football. Great fans. But it's a it's a mid-level market. And, you know, we were on one of fifteen teams, two and 14 teams. It was hard to grow it.

So I got guys from around the league, you know, my brother, Connor Barwin, Johnny Hecker. We've had Russell Wilson for a little bit. We've had certain guys, Taylor LeJuan, that have helped influence in other markets. And we've shattered the goal. You know, we're at 56 wells and over 200,000 200,000 people with clean water, uh, you know, being served, uh, out of our wells. And, uh, we've moved to a 1 million people serve goal. So,

uh, you know, and the coolest thing we've done is we've crossed over into the NBA, uh, with our hoops to, Oh, initiative that Malcolm Brogdon of the bucks ands and UVA fame was able to start. And there was just this really natural synergy where he was interested in clean water, and we had this vehicle in place, and we joined forces. And now he's got his starting five, including Joe Harris, another UVA guy who just made it rain the other night and knocked off Steph in the three-point contest.

I thought I was super proud. So I just think we're moving in the right direction. We're moving into other sports, and we're always looking for new athletes and ambassadors to climb with us or take up clean water as a cause because it's transformative. It doesn't only save lives. It allows kids to go to school because they're not perpetually sick or dying. It allows, you know, women and girls,

most of the burden of gathering dirty or clean water in sub-Saharan Africa, to go to school or be mothers and live a peaceful life that's not, you know, involving these six-mile water walks that are very dangerous, you know, and it allows agriculture to flourish and communities to grow. So it's really transformative and we love the cause. It's something you should always be proud of, man. And I know kind of the way you are in the speech and kind of like looking at all this stuff around you. And I know you don't love all that admiration, but you deserve it all.

And I'm always proud. No, seriously. Like, I'm proud to call you a friend. And again, waterboys.org. I'm going to go on there and wear my t-shirt today working out. And I'm going to make a little donation and hopefully get this going. You can call me a friend, but unfortunately, I don't live in LA. So I can't help you with your circle of friends there.

Hold on. Waylon, Waylon, say hi to Ryan. Hi Ryan. Tell your dad to play for the Rams. No, I don't know anything about any of that. So, uh, well I'll talk to you soon then. I appreciate you having me on, bud. Yeah, absolutely, man.

We'll talk to you soon. So there you go. There's Chris Long and that's what we did. And a little surprise from Big Cat. And I'm going to go work out and prepare for next year's Mount Kilimanjaro hike. Please rate and review and subscribe to the Dual Threat podcast or any of the Ringer podcasts, and we will be back shortly. We'll be back.

I don't know when we're going to launch the next one. I'll give you more of a heads up. Kyle, how's that sound? That's good. And then don't forget, Bill Simmons fans, basketball fans, or maybe just fans of me, you can. That sounds weird. Check us out.

We're taping it Sundays into Mondays, depending on how the schedule works out. We do them once a week on the Bill Simmons podcast for NBA stuff. So have a great week.