The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Denny Hamlin on Teaming Up with Michael Jordan and the Daytona 500, Plus Life Advice

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

Russillo is joined by Denny Hamlin, NASCAR driver/owner and one of the stars of the new Netflix series “Full Speed”, to discuss teaming up with Michael Jordan, his reputation with racing fans, and the Daytona 500 this weekend (00:39). Plus, the guys close it out with some listener-submitted life advice (29:42). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Denny Hamlin Producers: Cliff Augustin, Steve Ceruti, and Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

the ryan rossillo podcast your home for motorsports we're talking nascar today danny hamlin three-time daytona winner daytona's this weekend interesting story He's a decorated driver. He's owners with Michael Jordan of 2311 Racing, and we've got a longer life advice for you. Enjoy the weekend. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski I'm excited to do this. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. I'm excited to do this. A bit out of the comfort zone. Denny Hamlin joins us now. 51 wins, three-time Daytona winner.

Also a team owner of 2311 Racing and the star of the first episode of NASCAR's Full Speed. And also a podcaster, which is actually a good part of the plot. Again, the podcast is actions detrimental. Thanks for doing this, Danny. How are you, man? Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. So did your PR people say, hey, you should really go on with this Ryan guy? Because we were getting it, and I just said, I don't want to embarrass myself, and I don't want to waste his time, but it seemed like people really thought we would hit it off here. Yeah, I mean, we're fellow sports guys, right?

So just because I talk about one sport probably more than you carry a plethora of different sports that you probably carry. So we're still in the same family. So I think we can make it work. Yeah, just content guys, a a couple content guys hanging out uh all right so in in the pilot or excuse i guess i call the pilot but it's the first episode of the netflix series i knew i liked you immediately i was like okay i was like i think i like this guy and then within a minute they show a clip of everybody booing you and i went wait what's what's going on so

is that the editing is that the scattering report on your relationship with nascar fans where are you in the popularity contest of this sport uh in the barrel i'm at the bottom for sure um that tends to happen i found out when you maybe wreck a few popular drivers, the fans just don't seem to resonate with that quite well. So, yeah, it seems like there is a kind of rivalry, I guess you would say, with me and the NASCAR fan in general, which I'm okay with. Because I'm just, every time I run up front and win races, I'm a thorn in their side that's just not going to get rid of. Okay, yeah, because I think you yell, yell like I'd be your favorite racer. And I was like, that's a really good line. Uh, can you, as I've admitted, I know almost nothing about the sport. Although there was one stretch at ESPN very, very early on in my career where they were like, we're going to be talking NASCAR regularly. So get on it. And I studied like crazy in a hotel room for Daytona. I talked about it for six hours during a live radio

show and then they never had us do it again. So it was very weird that they were getting on our case that much. So when I think about like the career arc of an athlete, what is it like for a driver, you know, being a little kid and then figuring it out and then getting to this point, what's that like? You know, I think it's pretty similar to other sports, honestly. You always hear debate about, well, who would have been, who's the best? The guys that competed in the 90s, the dominators, the athletes that happen now. The athletes or the young kids that are in sports now. young kids that are in sports now, it's different because I think what is considered the statistical prime of a NASCAR driver is in their late 30s. And actually, the peak number is like 40 years old.

A lot of that, but then there's a huge steep decline. Like right after really the age I am now, 43, it just really goes down. But I feel like I've had kind of a resurgence in my career here in the latter half. I'm year 19 now, just really embracing like every other sport, the analytics, the data. And if I can mix in, you know, giving this dog kind of some new tricks along with using my veteran experience to beat these guys mentally, then I'm going to have a leg up, which is why I feel like I'm on top of my game right now. So the career arc, I would say that is you've got drivers that start in go karts when they're eight years old and they work their way up the ranks and they just keep going. The difference in NASCAR or other sports is that if you have a son or a daughter or whatever that plays sports, you've got to buy them the shoes, maybe the helmet, the pads, they're good to go. Their career is going to be made from their talent level and their accomplishments from there.

The difference in motor racing driving is that you have to have funding, right? You have to put tires on the car. You got to have a new engine, this, that, and the other. It's always evolving. So it really relies on having a few backers behind you or sponsors to almost bet on you as a horse. You know what I mean? I'm going to buy into this horse's future that he's going to go win the Kentucky Derby for me one day and I'm going to get into this horse's future that he's going to go win the Kentucky Derby for me one day, and I'm going to get a return on that investment. So it's just a little bit different because of how the careers start, how it evolves. But our champion last year, Ryan Blaney, I think is in his 20s, right? So there's a wide range of age between us all all but we're all pretty equal on the racetrack

okay so when i think about the quarterbacks and college football players a little bit different because there's more seizing with the nba you can have a team draft somebody and you're like this guy sucks at basketball and then it's like yeah but there's how big he is, how he moves. Okay, we see something where if it goes down, is there any similarity with young drivers where it's like he's not winning, he's not doing this, but there's a way he drives that tells us if things were to work out that his ceiling is high enough that he can compete at the highest level. Is there any similarity there?

100%. When I came in, my family had little to no funding. We really relied on others to keep my career going. But when I did get noticed and I did have success, the team I drive for says, well, who's next? Who's the next guy that we haven't talked about yet? Back then, I said, well, it's Brad Kozlowski for sure. And they're like, I mean, that guy that gets laps six times every race. I'm like, yes, because I can see that he's getting the most out of his, the car that he's driving. He's driving the piss out of it. He's just, you can just see if he actually had a good car, he'd be really good.

And then a few years later, the guy wins the championship. So like, you know, it just, we can see those things. It's really hard for the casual fan to see that, the top end ability of some, but I know with our team 2311, you know, we hired Tyler Reddick a year and a half in advance, just because I knew that his ceiling was really, really high. And then if I could mentor him a little bit, this is a guy that would carry my franchise for decades. So I got into F1 because of the Netflix series. I never thought I would. You know, I just don't have a ton of time

with all the other stuff that I watch. And it became cool because it was exotic. I don't care who you are. If you're a guy, a fucking race car is cool. Okay. It's just cool. But the hardest thing that I had, you know, it always gets turned into like, oh, you're just guy a fucking race car is cool okay it's just cool but the hardest thing that i had and you know it always gets turned into like oh you're just a stupid american i'm like so you get

these 10 teams and like seven of them know they have no chance and right in the race they'll be like don't race him we're racing for seventh today we're racing for eighth and you're like what like what's the point so i i imagine there's some parts of nascar that are like that but it seems to be a far more level playing field where anybody has like it feels like you guys have way more of a chance on a weekend than they do there's way more parity for sure i mean when you think about i mean just last year in F1, you really had one car, one driver dominate the entire thing. And realistically, there was two and a half teams that could win. So that's four, five total drivers that realistically could win in F1. NASCAR, it's realistically 18.

That is, you know, with good enough teams, good enough pit crews, their talent level is good enough that they can do it. So similar to like I think about the NBA and when small markets started winning like Milwaukee or whatever it might be, people tune in because if they know that the Lakers are just going to crush Charlotte every time, well, Charlotte's so bad now that that's true. But people tune in because there's always a chance that the smaller market or the underdog has a chance to win. In F1, that's not really true, where NASCAR actually is true.

So the competitive parity is what makes this form of motorsports in America so strong. And it's why you'll see this weekend, Daytona 500, the sold out crowd because the competition is like, unlike any other. So that brings us to the team dynamic and I didn't understand it. And I'm still not sure that I do,

but you're not only a driver. Uh, you own a team with Michael Jordan, 23, 11, 23, 11 racing, where you have two other drivers. and that's a big part of the

first episode. I imagine you're, are you the first to do this? I, again, I don't know, but that's a, that's a, that's good. Like how is that even allowed? That's a really good question. And a lot of people ask that. Dale Earnhardt was the last one who owned one team but drove for another. So it had been 20 plus years, the gap and that happening. And truthfully, I didn't think I would get into team ownership until my career was over. But just kind of the chips fell in place right around COVID. One team was kind of going out of business or not going to be able to sustain COVID and the impact it had on sponsorship. I was able to pick up those pieces and start a team.

Obviously, I couldn't do it without Michael Jordan and his financial backing as well. And so it wasn't a conflict until it was, and you kind of saw it in the Netflix around the third episode or second episode, where my team owner, Joe Gibbs, says, well, surely you're going to help our team. And I'm like, well, actually, I'm going to help the team that I own because I need to be a leader for them. But we have a really good alliance between the teams because we are both Toyota that they want us working together anyway. between the teams, because we are both Toyota, that they want us working together anyway. So listen, my first priority is to win for the 11 car and this weekend, the FedEx car and the Daytona 500. And if my team finishes second and third, that's the perfect scenario for me. Because ultimately, me winning is the best thing that we can do for 2311 to keep relevancy as an owner. So listen, I've got years and decades to win as a team owner with 2311, but my years are numbered as a driver to win a championship.

So my goal is always to beat those guys, and hopefully they finish second. But see, this dynamic is what made it so interesting in the series, and this is why I liked you, is you were just like, I'm not going to lie. I'm just going to tell you the truth. And you say on your podcast you're like look if i have to get one of my guys across especially with bubble watson at the close of last year trying to get him in the playoff it's like that's i can't go back into my team room and tell them like i'm i'm against you but then it runs into joe gibbs because joe gib Gibbs racing and your teammate is his relative. And he's going like,

was it, why would you do this? Or was it more like, why the fuck would you say this? Um, he just, I said, listen,

Joe, there's such a small chance that this is even going to be a, a story. Like it's only a story of my team and your team are battling side by side for the win. And which car do I get behind and push? Like the chances of that was less than 1%, which it didn't actually happen. Right. So, but it was, they wanted to know if that situation comes up, how are you going to react?

And I said, listen, I don't want to disappoint you. I just want to be upfront with you and say and say that you know this is where my allegiance lies because i just feel like i need to be a leader for them and i have to do them right so um it worked itself out my relationship with joe has been so good for the last 18 years that i've been with him that you know he understood get buckets with your first bet on FanDuel, America's number one sports book, because right now new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. Okay, let's look at some winners for you.

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See terms at Sportsbook.fanduel.com. Okay, so let's go back to the Jordan part of it. You have courtside seats for Hornets games. You build a relationship with Jordan. At what point did the relationship go from, hey, that's cool because, you know, a professional athlete, he is Michael Jordan. There's at least a better icebreaker with you than the average guy. When was there a pivot to wait?

I think I'm actually friends with Michael Jordan. It happened the moment that his security stopped me at a Hornets game. I had courtside seats, and I got pulled to the side and said Mike would like to speak with you. Wow, okay. So we talked during halftime for five minutes or so and he gave me his number. We exchanged numbers and the whole second half

he's asking me all these NASCAR questions like how come you have this strategy or that strategy? I'm like, wait a minute, you watch NASCAR? He's like, yeah. He's, my dad was a huge gearhead. He used to take me to Charlotte, Darlington, Talladega. As a kid, he would take me and my sisters. And so I just, I had a passion for racing ever since. So then that pivoted to me shooting my shot, you know, probably six months later saying, Hey, why don't you build my suit

and my shoes, you know, to have kind of the first Jordan brand logo out there in NASCAR. That was easy. Yep. No problem. Done. Then that goes into, well, I'm a Jordan brand athlete. And then 10 to 11 years later, this opportunity pops up for me to own a NASCAR team. Well, I can't do it on my own. I need a partner. But there was a speculative article out. It was totally not real. But it says Denny Hamlin and Michael Jordan are looking to purchase a minority state in Richard Petty Racing. That part was only half true because I was the one kicking tires, debating on how I'm going to get in to be a team owner. He had nothing to do with it whatsoever, but they just knew me and him were friends. And I think there was some false information. So I'm like, do I send him this

article? Like, all right, I'm going to do that. I'm just going to do it. So I sent it to him and he says, ha ha, it's fake news, obviously. But if you want to make it real news, let me know. him. And he says, ha ha, it's fake news, obviously. But if you want to make it real news, let me know. I said, hold on. What do you mean? He says, well, are you going to be a team owner or not? I says, if the right opportunity presents itself, I am looking around. He says, well, if you want a partner, when that time comes, let me know. And I says, when can you meet? So I had my business team type up a kind of a business proposal, how we're going to get this off the ground, how we're going to run it. Here's the financials. And so I flew down there two days later to Florida, met with them and says, here's the plan. And he says, listen, I'm in, but this is going to have to go through

my people, right? So they spent the next two months kind of vetting NASCAR, vetting myself and all this. And finally, a couple months later, they said, we're in. We're good to do this. So that's been three and a half years now ago we started a team. Man, just from that text, because I i don't know that i don't know the anxiety pre michael jordan text but just the text of like do i send this to this person do i let them know i'll never forget where i was i was on the ninth hole at a golf course i was hitting

my second shot in the fairway and i was so befuddled by his response of if you want to make a real news let me know i forgot to hit my ball. I drove to the green and my friends are like, what are you doing? Like your boss still back there. I'm like, I'm just all messed up right now. And it's like, look at this text. And so they're like, what are you going to do? I'm like, I don't know. I got to figure out my next move. So it's really cool. And obviously his presence here at the racetrack, he showed up, I think, at six or seven of the playoff races last year because he had two drivers in it. That matters for our team. And he loves the sport.

All right, let's talk about the NASCAR environment. When you decide that you're going to punch a guy after the race, how do you, how do you plan that? How do you position the car? How do you talk yourself? Like how far are you willing to go? Cause it seems like you guys punch each other quite a bit. Yeah,

it happens. I mean, for me personally, the first thing I look around is like, um, where's, where's support at? You know,

if, if I go in with this, I need to know that there's more of my people than their people. So I check out my surroundings first before I go there. But yeah, I mean, last year there was a couple of good shots landed, but NASCAR security was right there. And it actually prevented the return punch. So the rule of thumb pretty much is that you need to be the first to get a shot in because you're going to get broken up pretty quick. Okay. That's good to know.

I think that applies outside of the racetrack as well. I was thinking about this, and this may be stupid, but considering what's at stake when you're out there in these cars. And there's a line, I think, from the F1 thing that I think completely relates because you're just race car drivers. You've got to be a bit of a bastard. You know, you've got to be selfish. You've got to be wired differently to even get into one of these cars. And especially with NASCAR and how bad the pileups, like it can get so ugly and you don't even know what's going on. And it just ends up being luck, good luck or bad luck.

you don't even know what's going on and it just ends up being luck, good luck or bad luck. But do you think day-to-day things bother a race car driver less considering what's at stake during your job? Probably. I mean, I think that there was a moment in my personal life, you know, I had kids where it just, it just changed my outlook on the appreciation of the sport. I actually fractured my spine back in 2013 in a wreck, had to sit out six or seven races. And I, you know, sitting on the sideline watching my car go around and someone else driving it, like it just really awakens you quite a bit. Like in the NBA, you're hurt. Ain't nobody else wearing your jersey, right? It's just, it's the next guy up. But in NASCAR, like you are the leader of the team.

You are the quarterback. The crew chief is the head coach. So that's kind of how this works. But certainly, you know, we understand the risks that we have in the sport. And, you know, for many, many years, there was kind of like a fatality per year. And then NASCAR really put an emphasis on the safety aspect right after Dale Earnhardt died. And I was very fortunate to come in the sport right after all of that. So we certainly don't still take it for granted. There's been some close calls over the years because, you know, it's not many other sports where you're kind of risking life and limb. Right. So We understand it, but it's what we grew up doing, loving,

and I wouldn't change much. There's an amazing moment in the first episode where you're at Daytona towards the end of the year and you're basically telling everybody you're sensing something. You're sensing a wreck is coming and you drop back. I know the editing can be a little dramatic at times, but I mean, how real is that? That you're sensing something and now you decide to give up all these positions to give yourself a better chance to get away from something. That's real. I've done it

every super speedway race and super speedway race is like a Daytona and Talladega. We're all running in a big pack. A lot of it because I know wrecks are inevitable. It's going to happen. And what I sense and what my gut tells me and what my head tells me is what my eyes is seeing. And that is people are starting to run into the back of each other harder. We're not giving each other as much room side to side. So we're going to crash. It's going to happen. The intensity is starting to pick up. And I know that the only way I'm going to win this race is if I get out of that. Now, it's going to make it harder for me to get back to the front because I'm giving up positions for free. But to win the race, you must first finish. And I make sure that I try to

do everything I can to give myself a chance to be in the picture when they throw the checkered flag. And if I'm on a record, that's not going to happen. So I think that that intuition has really helped me over the years get to the finish and have the success that we have. So I'm just going to keep trusting my instincts until it fails me. Are your insurance premiums higher for race car drivers? A hundred percent. Yes. 100%. No doubt about it. It wasn't because your daughter was driving the truck when you were dropping her off at school. No, I mean, I figured that's how everybody learns, right? It's either in your driveway. I mean, for me and her, it's in the school drop off line.

So, yeah, trust me, they didn't love seeing that. That's for sure. I'm just imagining them watching me like, hey, why don't we get a get on a call with him and update his his new price? Is there a pair of Jordans that you can't get then? No, no. Luckily, I get one of everything that comes off the line. So it wreaks havoc with storage for me because, you know, I just posted an Instagram clip of kind of all my Jordan collection. And I think the tally was five hundred and thirty something. But that's all that I've kept in the last four years. Before that, I donated 90 percent of everything I got. I only keep one out of 10 shoes that come in. And so I would donate them to shelters and whatnot. Got barred from doing that because they said it was causing fights amongst different people. And so I couldn't donate them anymore. So I said, you know what, I'm just going to keep everything, keep it in a storage warehouse.

And then my kids will one day go through dad's Jordan collection. So maybe they think it's cool, maybe not, but either way I keep it all down. I'm going to refrain from asking what size you are. So you're telling me if, if there's like the players only, you know, if they do an Oregon Jordan four or whatever, the Michigan fives, you can, you can get those, you can make that happen. Yep. Guys should have been impressed before earlier stuff in this interview. Let me close with this. Chris Paul is one

of my favorite players ever. I defend him passionately. I feel like he's the greatest winner who hasn't won. For some players, I look at them and go your style of play is not conducive to winning. Then I look at other guys and I go it just didn't happen for you

but it doesn't mean that you can't win. You've got all of these career victories you don't have the cup championship it feels a little Chris Polish huh? It does. I think it's a little bit different because

the way in which you win a championship in the NBA has not changed in decades. You still got to go through this seven game series, what have you. I mean, there's been minor tweaks probably to standings and divisions and all that stuff. But in NASCAR, it's changed so much. It used to be a big old sample size. You take 36 races and you compile who had the best season, that's your champion. Now it is an elimination style format.

Listen, we're on the track with our competition, right? So people that are eliminated from the playoffs can cause a caution that can screw you over and keep you from winning. So there is a bit of chance to this that there's not another sports because our sample size is so small. And other people, listen, if the Super Bowl happens and the competition makes a mistake, you capitalize. In our sport, if competition makes a mistake, they can involve me in that mistake.

And I had nothing to do with that. And it just seems like i'd been cursed for the greater part of my career at the end of the seasons by things that hadn't been in my control and and the dice have just we've cracked out every time when it comes down to it um so i it's not going to define me because i think that wins really really really matter. And crown jewel wins, you know, winning the majors. I mean, that really shows what you've got. But the championship format is different. And I understand it.

I know how it works. But, man, there's just been that element of chance that has not gone my way when it really needed to. Maybe now that I have a slightly better understanding with your explanation is like with three Daytonas, it's like, man, I've already won the masters. Okay. So that it's, it's not like Chris Paul doesn't have his masters, you know, he doesn't have his Daytona and the championship part of that is different because it's, it's the collection of the standings for you guys where it's like, Hey, you know, look, I don't, I don't have it yet, but I've got 51 wins. Right. And eight of those are majors for us, you know, Southern 500, right. It's like that

may call that the U S open. So it's just, there's, I'm very happy with the accomplishments. Um, but yeah, surely I want... If you watch the Netflix series through and through, the fourth episode is very hard for me because I see how much it means to my parents, my dad, and I want it to happen. But all I can control is my effort.

And as long as I give 100% effort, I'm going to have to be content with result. NASCAR Full Speed, it's out now on netflix and of course check out denny's podcast actions detrimental and i think we're all going to be rooting for the 11 car this weekend and uh for the rest of the year man i really appreciate you taking the time and doing this and we've got a new favorite driver here on the podcast so thanks thanks, man. Appreciate it, man. Thank you. Big fan of yours, by the way. Let me know if you need anybody to come on.

I know how tough it is booking guests. If you want to do some NBA on your thing, we do a little home and home. All right. I'm a big sports guy. So I love talking about all sports. Sounds good, man. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari.

355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice. Email address is lifeadvicerr at gmail.com

We had some people chiming in in the pottery world. Kyle. Hot seat. Yeah. That was just a throwaway line. That was so stupid. What can you do? You know what was a nice line line is we get a follow-up from the original emailer and normally look it's the way life works you're like oh you know what i really liked is this podcast that i checked out and then they

kind of dumped on my entire philosophy for 15 minutes right randomly like you don't often get it's kind of like simonis the other night going to his bench against phoenix being like don't challenge this actually don't challenge this you rarely's kind of like Sabonis the other night going to his bench against Phoenix being like, don't challenge this. Actually, don't challenge this. You rarely get somebody who chimes in after because it just doesn't feel good. It's not what you really want to sign up for. You're like, oh my God, they're actually reading my email. And it's like, oh wow, I made this mistake. Wait, wait, wait.

Really wish I hadn't set this in. Credit to that guy. He sent a, I'm not going to read the whole thing, but he said, he's like, look, I just did not understand how it worked and the way pickleball is and different stuff and whatever and so i'm just i'm just glad i'm glad because we can i don't want to read emails where every time it's like no you're the best or that's awesome or great it's like sometimes it's kind of fun to be like what the fuck is this yeah like i yeah right fucked up clearly right like is iop guy not gonna listen to the podcast anymore because

what we said or is the real strength and courage of a man it's like i'm not missing an episode because i still like it even though he went a little hard at me yeah okay i think people hate listen all the time hate listening and hate watching is something that people do you know i still don't think my anger was directed towards ihop email where maybe it should have been it was more about someone was going to say to us it was the inbox if you're running dollar pancake stacks that's on you and i would have paid them more for that day you should pay your employees more for that day that's not how it happened that's not how people are okay uh life advice, girl, and bully bodybuilder. Oh,

it sounds like a sunny episode. For sure. Right? Yeah. I'd love to get Kyle a room on like, just pitching ideas. Right. It's called the room.

No, but I'm saying, could you be, because everybody thinks they could be, you know, Oh, Hey, my, my job's a TV show, or this is, you know, all these different things. Okay, how's it end?

Oh, we should, yeah, we could be a sitcom. Like, yeah, I don't know. How's it end? I saw somebody, I think it was a writer. I dabble into, like, TV writer Twitter every now and then just to, like, see kind of what's going on. And there was somebody that was like, every show is this. And they clearly skewed the conclusion to come to some bigger conclusion about an observation on society. It was like, this shows about this, or this shows

about that. It may even have been political. It might've been somebody more leaning towards the right that was talking about like the dysfunctional family and that this is what's being sold to the masses or whatever. I read the whole thing. I was like, man, that's really well put together. It's very specific. It's very convincing, except good luck pitching a TV show where you're like, well, in season one, everything works out. So anyway, all right, here we go. I was telling my brother an encounter I had at the gym last night. He told me to reach out to you because you were the perfect guy to give advice on this. He told me to give my gym stats and dive into the story. I'm 5'10", 175.

Well, I don't like to start. It could be like lean strong, you know? No. That's close to my build. Yeah, and if a bodybuilder was fucking with you, I would tell you what, Kyle? What would we do there? What if he's got like the Bruce Lee thing going on? What if you do?

No, what if he does? No, I don't think it's a take. I think that's a chalk it up to the game. Charge it to the game. Yeah. All right. So our guy continues. He's from the Midwest.

All right. I train more of a hybrid style, a mix between running and lifting. I can bench press my body weight, 175, for 24 reps. Holy shit, Sruti, you may have been on to something. There you go. And I run a 17-25-5K. That's pretty fast. So he can run.

I was getting ready to compete in the pump and run at the Arnold Classic. Oh, so wait, this guy. It's legit. Should you be giving us the advice? I know, right? 5'10", 175. I didn't know what to do. And then Cerruti's like, yeah, but tell the rest of the story. And there is quite

a story to tell. Quick backstory on my situation. I met a girl that went to my gym at a bar this summer. Let's call her Cecilia. I like that. We my gym at a bar this summer. Let's call her Cecilia. I like that. We talked, danced a little. I love when guys dance. I don't trust men that are good dancers, but I like it.

You do it. She gave me her number, and that was that. We texted briefly, but I never saw her at the gym again, so it fizzled out. Fast forward to the last couple of weeks. Cecilia starts coming back to the gym, so we chat. We run into each other. She starts texting me and tells me she's single, so now I am interested. Well, her ex-boyfriend, let's call him Ivan, also works out at the gym and also happens to be the biggest guy at the gym. Not sure his gym sets. Seems more like

a leg press guy than a squat guy. Last night, I'm talking to Cecilia right before I leave the gym and I walk past Ivan. When I head to the door, he says to me as I'm walking by, quote, if you're going to talk to her so much, why don't you ask her out? I respond without looking at him. Maybe I will. He says, yes, that would be a fucking mistake. At this point, I just keep walking because I don't want any confrontation. I drive home and I have a notification from Instagram that says Ivan wants to send you a message.

I accept the message and it says, next time I see you at the gym, we're going to have a talk. I respond, I don't want no trouble. My first thought was, I'm never going back to the gym. Even though I've been going there for five plus years and have a good relationship with the owner, but also do not want to get my face beat in. This morning, I changed my mindset that I'm not going to let someone bully me like this yes i think that his goal is just to intimidate since he is a big guy need some advice do i stay at gym what should i say if ivan approaches me next time i see him should i top stop talking to cecilia uh i love where your head's at with this one and i love those numbers those are some impressive ass numbers which tells me like but you're also not so delusional with your own numbers that you think you're going to be able to take this Ivan guy. Cause he sounds like he's kind of big. And

I think it's a little weird that you'd said you just were like, maybe I will without even looking at him. You didn't the Spidey sense or just the girth shadow wasn't, you know, setting off the tinglys there a little bit. So, uh, so you guys, so I can't, I'm trying to size you up, right? I'm trying to figure out like where your head is at with certain things are you of the mindset it's like well i'm not going to let anybody talk to me like that because i work out and i'm strong and you know you get a little bit older you might be more inclined to want to stick up for yourself so um despite you know everybody trying to size each other uh size each other up during our younger years all right so do not quit the gym don't let him do that to you uh the

reality is the actual physical confrontation the percentages are really really low now if this guy's juiced up on everything that he's at the point where he's taking female female or i should say women hormones um where he's trying to counter everything else that he's doing it's not worse i really love that one uh taking woman pills we don't want to give you the complete sign off you're like ah fuck this guy he's not going to do anything because if there's a guy that's going to do something it's probably a guy like this yeah um and you also kind of can't really tell cecilia to be like hey i would ask you out but i'm horrified of ivan because then she's like you're you're an asshole anyway but then if she tells on him then maybe

you're in all sorts of other trouble so i don't i i think look if this guy's enormous and he's tough and he might just be enormous and not tough but i don't know that you're gonna yeah you're not really gonna want to be like let's find out how fucking tough this guy really is when he's got you by 100 pounds um hold on can you just but can you just say to cecilia like jokingly like hey what's up with your ex like i gotta kick my ass like you know because that way like you're not saying hey i'm scared or like i'm not i don't want to date you could you just kind of float it as a joke and if she's like oh yeah he's a crazy person like i'd stay away from him then you kind of know where you're at that's definitely a route i think i would do i would fake it till i make it sort of thing like i think you

say nothing to anyone and just and just be a nervous wreck. And soon, you'll just learn to live in that chaos a little bit, I think. I think that's okay. I think that's probably what I would have done. Yeah, but you shouldn't have to feel this way. You shouldn't have to feel this way as an older man, okay? Like, you know, I had a guy that I was definitely afraid of when I was younger. And then there was a guy years later that wanted nothing to do with me because it's something he did in the the the circumstances the living transactions as he put himself through to avoid me for like a year were fucking common now i think back like god it's like the most effort anybody's ever put into

something but then i also remember like you know when i was i think i was like 16 and somebody had it out for me just because he was a fucking weirdo of a guy but he just decided he's picked me right it is an awful awful feeling and god i can't even remember like i've never felt that uh since then years later so you see even have that in the back of your head because somebody wants to kick your ass but most it's got to be way over 99 of the time these transactions end up not even remotely being physical and if you can try to convince him that you're not going to be bullied while also being respectful i don't know i don't know what the combination of moves here is but you can't quit the gym if he says hey we're going to have a talk like okay what do you want to talk about

you know and i i would tell you if he's that much bigger than you and you get a chance to get any scattering report on him it doesn't he's he's in the wrong i mean look if this is the way it worked there's nobody was allowed to date anybody's ex you weren't friends with the guy you know it's not like hey you're roommates yeah right right yeah yeah exactly like the whole like oh i can't believe you're dating my sister. Well, eventually somebody had to start dating somebody's sister. Okay? That's just, it's years ago someone actually signed off on it. Okay, man? So I don't know that you want to be like high school, college, so Rudy here would be like, yeah, fucking Cecilia, what's up?

Fucking dancing this summer. What are you going to do about it, son? You know? Because now you're just just gonna you now you might get punched not proud of it i have never been punched though so that's probably why you've never been punched that's incredible not in the face no yeah it's incredible wait would somebody just decide to go body blows on you after an altercation i mean we've been in like i've been in scraps that weren't like that serious but i've never been like punched in the face scraps that weren't that serious, but I've never been punched in the face. Scraps that weren't that serious? What did you say?

Nothing in the face? Yeah. I'm trying to think of what it would be. There was one time, it was after a party. Me and this guy got into a little bit of a shoving match. I don't even remember if it went to the floor, but no one was throwing punches. Then everybody gets you off each other, and it ends.

I've had a few of those, but nothing where somebody just cold cocked me in the face. Yeah. All right. But yeah, I would recommend not being. I wouldn't have pegged you as one of those guys. Usually I could spot those guys. Yeah, I just get a little mouthy,

and I would not recommend doing that. Yeah, I did that to a guy at the University of Delaware. One of my buddies was a cheerleader there, and those guys are interesting guys in that they, obviously, it's a little bit of a different thing.

But also, some of those guys are gigantic. Yeah, but full respect to the male cheerleaders. They're throwing people up in the air. They're big.

And there was this one guy, yeah, he's wearing an Ohio State shirt. And I was really not into Ohio State at that moment. And I just kind of, I don't even know what I directly said to him,

but it wasn't great. And the guy could have kicked my ass and didn't. And yeah, just don't do that. Don't be that guy. But said to him, but it wasn't great. And the guy could have kicked my ass and didn't. And yeah, just don't do that. Don't be that guy. But can you, I think it's worth talking to the guy though. Just can you just, you just have to do it in a public place. Like do it in the locker room, do it where other people are around.

You can't just like go outside because then he might just kick your ass in the alley. Definitely not a parking lot conversation. But yeah, maybe it's just worth being like, all right, man, like what do you want to talk about? Like, I don't know what's going on. Like I'm talking to this girl. I was your ex. Like just play dumb. And I don't know, like what's he going to talk about like i like i don't know what's going on like i'm talking to this girl or is your ex like just play dumb and and i don't know like what's he gonna do be mad at you for like he doesn't i think i know obviously this guy's upset with him right yeah

there's probably no reason with him but like maybe when you when you when he hears himself like be this upset about it and like you're just like i don't know man i don't even know you i'm just talking to this girl like maybe he realized how dumb he sounds and it just kind of de-escalates the situation yeah probably not but i like it i think yeah well the one thing you can't do though is be is be like shrink you know and be like oh shit i didn't know and stuff like that like it has to be apparent that you won't be bullied but also like there's a way to do that without being a fucking asshole sorry for cursing uh 13 minutes in i think our last curse came 13 minutes into um i just think that the the one thing you can't show signs of like that,

this guy can get over on you by just saying a bunch of crazy shit and like, and like standing up straight, you know, like you can't, you have to be like, I'm not one of those guys that I'm not going to just do whatever you say because of that. And you shouldn't,

and you, you haven't done anything wrong. So don't say that you've done anything wrong. Like the words, I'm sorry, shouldn't come out of your mouth or like, sorry, I didn't know.

I think there's like a lot of times bullies just need to know that like you're not you're not going to be fucked with. There's plenty of dudes walking this earth that will. And it's just so move on to somebody else. I think that's where it is. I like this. Walk that line. I like and, you know, I don't think we're telling him to do something like granted.

The guy's like, all right, we'll talk because meet me at the Cumberland Farms parking lot. Then don't do that. If you can keep it in the lobby or if you could pull it off to the side of the squat rack, be like, hey, you said you wanted – I mean, you would absolutely dome him mentally when you saw him first at the gym and you just went up like totally in control. It was like, all right, what do you want to talk about? And be like – now, the problem is if he's a real dumb person, okay, if he's – and I hate to stereotype – and if he's a real dumb person, okay, if he's, and I hate to stereotype,

and if he's like just absolutely broken, there's no, you need to attempt at being reasonable and then size up the situation from there. And then you can start thinking about that part of her. Because granted, we both know what's going to happen. If she's hot enough, you're still going to risk it. I think we got it. We got it covered there.

Yep. Good luck. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. And all else fails, run. I actually do want to know how this goes, so please follow up. I really do.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, 34 married, got asked out by a 23-year-old. Whoa, who still has it this guy 6-1-165 did four sets of 10 uh at 145 on squats today 145 or 135 basketball compass tyrone hill uh where he to suffer from unhousedness what oh that's he's trying to say he's a homeless man's version but oh yeah that's right unhoused i think i've even used that that's the new term thank you kyle i should have figured that out a little bit quicker but um i got caught on the extra five pounds on each side

last week my friend invited me to listen to his friend talk about how we can live foreverish oh whoa that sounds like that sounds like an incredible, do you realize that sentence? He sent me an invite to the event, which looked official. I showed up to the lobby of a nice building. I met a guy who thinks we can live forever-ish and four people in addition to my friend who invited me.

I remember I was in New Yorkork city once meatpacking district and i met a girl that was like oh my god food is the worst for you she's like i don't eat food as she chain smoked and drank on our tab she said and asked if any of us wanted to do coke after giving us a speech about how food kills you and if you can just breathe in enough sunlight and then balance that with the juice diet yeah yeah she's like you can't she's like you guys eat food food is terrible anyone want any blow um i was fascinated by her fascinated yeah all right uh i was expecting to walk through one of the many doors in the lobby to listen to this guy speak, possibly in a stage of sorts.

The Live Forever-ish guy then leads us out to the building, but I'm still expecting to at least lead something like a meeting. This is amazing. Is this fake? We arrive at a spot. We're asked for IDs, and I realize we're in a restaurant. We all sit down and order food. I'm thinking, all right, this isn't a conference or a meeting,

but I'm at least expecting this guy to hold court once everybody gets to food he just gives an elevator pitch about how he believes aging is programmed it can be shut off so we can live forever he asked me what i would do if he could uh offer me a life extension and does not get the reference when i ask if he's talking about a certain tom cruise movie this guy's good he's smart back to the unhoused it all makes sense now anyway uh after this guy pitches me his life extension i talked to the girl that i sat next to by happenstance she came to the life extension event because she's newer in town and wants to be in the mix at some point she mentions to me that she's a musician as the night was winding down i asked

her if she had an instagram for her music she asked for my phone perhaps worried that i'm blocked uh all of her associated accounts and searches for herself um to reference to kyle yeah this guy's he's really into the lore yeah yeah he is like i understood what that one was but then i'm like art this is a mess whatever we'll just keep reading it i feel like this is a plot to something though when i get home it i have it was nice to meet you message from her. Fear sets in. I immediately tell my wife what happened, and then I'm worried the girl got the wrong idea. We exchange two messages and laugh reactions about the life extension.

Then I end the conversation. I'm expecting it to end there, but tonight she calls, messages me, and asks if I want to go get a drink this week at a cool bar we've discussed. I immediately tell my wife, and she says, oh, no. She's a little jealous, but also thinks it's funny. I wait a little and then say, hi, I don't think it would be appropriate since i'm married but i hope you're settling into town nicely i'm worried she may think i was being presumptuous but she responds oops thank you all right all checks out i consider reaching or reacting with the heart emoji uh which is a like on ig thanks man appreciate that um or saying no no oops

necessary but then decide not to react or say anything at all i leave it there first question was i right to leave it there well yeah if you if you didn't want to go get the drink that's correct yeah what else is there to say unless you're not planning on cheating on your life i get the thing like the attention's cool like all right i got this girl she likes to be like you know you want to keep the string along but you know yeah totally white like what's yeah what was your goal what was your goal it sounds like you reached your goals filled up your attention cup is filled up you're good for a while this is great second question was i completely insane asking an aspiring musician

for her ig i was really just trying to be nice to someone who makes music but maybe this is a no-go unless i've made it abundantly clear that i'm married for context i don't wear a wedding band and i probably look much younger uh than how a 23 year old imagines a 34 year old looking. Final question. My friend invited me to the life extension thing. Also got her number. Well, okay. I feel kind of bad for getting in his way.

Should I? I did everything I could to help him, but I don't think me asking for this girl's IG stopped anything from happening there. Thanks, guys. Here's what I think you need to focus on. You went to a life extension dinner. Did you get your Thetans tested or something what the right and so somebody invited you to that and you're apologizing to people so i think it's all on the table like she must think i'm surprised she was even thrown up by the married thing she was like yeah but what if she doesn't have life

extension policies what do you think about our third extension policies? What do you think about our third act? You know, what do you think about that? 150 years single. She'll have been dead for a long time and will have signed up for this service. So I'm not just I'm just, you know, planting a seed here for decades later from now. You told your wife she knows everything that happened and nothing even happened. A person asked you out because they thought you weren't married. And then did, I just thought there was gonna be another layer here where she didn't care. And then my whole point was going to be, of course,

there was another layer. She was at a life extension dinner. Okay. So I think a lot of, I think people that would go to that are a little bit more open-minded about things, not trying to judge or stereotype or whatever, but I have a couple of friends that have dipped their toes into a, Hey, have you ever thought about man's role in today's society and i'm like you're talking pick and roll man defense or what are you talking about you know and then the next thing i know i'm like why are you guys wearing fucking what outfit is that you guys larping what the fuck's going on like now it's offshoot yeah you know okay yeah this is our thunderbirds winter fest although it'd be

winter now anyway so uh good recall kyle bringing it all the way back uh you didn't do anything wrong like there's the level of guilt on this should be if kelvin and i there's nothing here yeah also it seems like your wife is fine like if she's cool with you not wearing a wedding band she's probably less jealous than the average bear you know what i mean so it fine. Like if she's cool with you not wearing a wedding band, she's probably less jealous than the average bear. You know what I mean? So it's like, uh, if she's cool with that,

she's probably cool with, you know, this, Hey, look at this. She could probably laugh this off. Like you said, she might be a little jealous,

which is, uh, is maybe human nature, but it sounds like everything's actually cool. Like you don't have any, any, any problems on the backend. And,

uh, you're just thinking of whether or not you should give her a heart emoji to maybe see if she'll text you back like that might be the the the what is that subliminal thing here I think it's just just move on all good I don't really have much to add other than stay out of your points to your point Ryan is this does sound kind of like a this sounds like a Seth Rogen movie in 2010. And Zoey Deschanel is the girl. There's something weird.

I could just... Was she striking? There's something weird about the plot of this thing. No, she's like the quirky girl. She's a musician. And you meet her at this crazy event that you shouldn't even have been at. And then you're married. It does kind of feel movie script to me. So I don't know.

We'll have to Google this and see if it's on Reddit somewhere. I thought you wanted to live forever. Yeah. Wish everybody could see that face. Yeah, without the video accompaniment, that's not going to work that well. Maybe a breakout video. Let's do it. Breakout video.

All right. She's just so quirky. I don't know what it is about her. She's so quirky. Let's do it. All right. That's life advice. Thanks to Cliff.

Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Steve. Ryan Russo podcast. We have the New Zealand travelogue coming up next week as well. So again, ringer Spotify. must be 21 and older present select states fan duel is offering online sports wagering in kansas under agreement with kansas star casino llc gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit fanduel.com forward slash rg in colorado iowa kentucky michigan new jersey ohio pennsylvania illinois tennessee vermont and virginia call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona,

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