The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Dirk Nowitzki on How He Changed the Game, Plus the Ceiling for Ja and the Grizzlies

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

Ryen opens with some thoughts on Ja Morant and the Grizzlies continuing to be the best watch in the NBA right now and why it’s OK to just enjoy them without getting ahead of ourselves (0:28). Then, he chats with NBA legend Dirk Nowitzki about his new book, 'The Great Nowitzki,' his unlikely path to changing the way the game is played, a few big what-ifs in his career, and how his image changed after he won a title (10:05). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (45:40). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Dirk Nowitzki Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's pod is an all-time a lot of jaw love and what real love means Dirk Nowitzki his career book is out we talkedirk, man. What else do you need to know? And life advice with another Dirk story. Where else do you start today except for one of the most electric guards in the NBA? Huge night for him, and that's Markel Fultz returning to the Orlando Magic the first time over a year. We will ask Rudy about that maybe some other time this week. Now, we have to start with John Morant,

who has now become appointment viewing. And it's awesome to see this. It's awesome to see it play out nationally where somebody that I think all of us just enjoy so much. He goes for 52 last night against the Spurs, a career high for him. First ever 50-point game in Memphis history. That's after he set his own career high this past weekend against the Bulls with 46. So he's on an absolute tear. Last night's game, he had 13 straight in the fourth quarter, and it was actually still kind of a game with San Antonio. I don't think he missed a shot in the fourth quarter on top of

everything else. He hit a bunch of threes. He had a dunk on Yaka Pirtle where people were afraid Pirtle was going to retire after the fact. And by the way, Pirtle's not terrible. It was one of those vicious jaw dunks where there's another level that he gets to. I don't know how many of you remember the Tom Chambers dunk over Mark Jackson.

It was basically the dunk for not only that season, but also the video game because they basically were like, there's this move you could play in the game or if you took off with Tom Chambers, you would just go up higher than everybody else, which seems a little ridiculous because Jordan's playing at the time too. And the reason he went up so high on that is because Mark Jackson helped kind of lift him up beyond what a guy would normally do, any human would do. And Ja has more moments right now that don't seem human than maybe anybody in the league. And I don't know. I don't know if he keeps track of the non-human movements, but that's what we have with Ja. His attacking is relentless. I don't think anybody splits a double team better than he does. You think you have him just walled off. You think that there's

no way he can get through, and then he gets through you. You think that he's done on his drive and the angle is cut off and he's going to have to turn and kick it back out to somebody else. Then he takes kind of this Euro Ginobili step and then gets the ball up and around and flips it from a different angle that you weren't expecting. And it happens all the time. And he plays with this viciousness too, which I love because we want all of our stars to have confidence, right? We want them to have a little bit of attitude, maybe a lot of attitude,

but we don't want so much confidence and so much attitude that it detracts from the actual game and in those winning moments. And he appears to have the perfect combination of all these elements that you want in the personality of a superstar. Very early in the season, when they started putting this together

and going on a roll and you started to see this big statistical jump from Ja, I mean, here's just one example. PER isn't always the best, but it's really telling for perimeter players. His PER has jumped from like, hey, you know, he's pretty good as Ja, like mid-teen, 16, 17 to 25. It's jumped like 10 points, eight or nine, 10 points, depending on how you track the last two years. like 10 points, eight or nine, 10 points, depending on how you track the last two years.

But there also was a joy that this team had where not only did they feel connected, which is very important in basketball. I use it when I'm super complimentary of basketball teams. They're connected. They know everybody's role. Everybody seems to be kind of happy in the role. And this is a Memphis team that's deep too and has a lot of pieces, but there's a joy and attitude that they have where there was talking shit to LeBron, just saying, Hey, we're not afraid of you anymore. Going into New York city and being like, whatever, like this is, this is, do you guys want to mess with us? Go ahead. Because we think we're that good. And they're knocking on some doors here. Now, when the MVP race comes through a jaw is going to now having guys like me, uh, you know, or some that are still on television, you'd be saying Jha's the clear MVP.

And what's the rule we hate more than anything else is that when somebody makes these arguments and says it's not even close. The whole point of this MVP race this season, as I've said numerous times, is that it is actually really close. But it's not to be dismissive of Jha. It's just that he's the next guy up for that now becomes the unanimous do. And there is something to be said of having popular opinion and certainly the people on television that have MVP votes. It's almost sometimes where

people like kind of the mob mentality could kind of shift in a certain direction. So to have that momentum is actually important for you potentially winning an MVP. But if we look over the timeline, Durant had a stretch, Steph had a stretch, Jokic just had a stretch where he's still very much in this thing. And Bede then kind of took over for Jokic where it felt like it was the two of them. And Bede is still very much in it as well. And then DeRozan was the most recent guy. What? In just the last week plus, a little before the All-Star break, a little bit after it, where it's like, now DeRozan's actually the guy now. And maybe he is, and maybe he gets votes. But if you were going to look at some of the Jaws stuff,

you could say, well, he's missed 14 games, but he's played more games than Embiid. He's going to play more games than Durant. I think Steph's kind of out of the conversation at this point. Giannis gets criminally overlooked, even though his numbers are basically identical to what he's done in previous years. And he's going to have a career high in win shares and PER.

And by the way, Giannis is also hitting his free throws again. So I think Jha is in this conversation, but when you can look at some of the standing stuff, you're like, well, what if Chicago's a one-seeded rose? Well, Memphis has a better record right now than Philadelphia and Chicago, which is my point of really saying have an open mind about all of this stuff because as somebody that did do this for a long time and knows what it's like to sit in those pre-show meetings and know that the sexiness that next morning be like hey

what do you want to say about john you're like well i you know this is where i always sucked at it and i'd go he's in the mvp conversation i think memphis is really good and i fucking love john moran what do you want me to say it's like well, well, could you say he's definitely the MVP? I'd be like, well, no, I don't really believe that. We still have ways to go here. We've got like 20 games. Do you want to say Memphis

is going to win the title? No, I don't. I'm not going to say they're incapable, but that would seem really dismissive of maybe the deepest top of contenders we've had in a really long time. Okay, do you want to say that Jaws may be better than any other point guard? No. I mean, he might be, but I still think I'm probably going to take Steph.

All right, would you say that you would take Jaws to start your team over anyone else right now? I don't know that I would do that either. I really like him. I think it's clear the first five minutes is monologue. I really like him, but I don't know that I would do those things. And the thing is, is none of that shit really matters. It's sexy. It gets the attention the next day. Everybody's in a hurry to kind of do some of these things, but none of that stuff really matters.

And I'm going to make a point here. When I've taught college football over the years, I probably seem more forgiving for certain programs and certain coaches than others would. for certain programs and certain coaches than others would. Because my grade or my gauge of who you are as a program and as a coach is, are you in the mix to play in a conference championship? And does that mean that you're in the mix then to be in the playoff? And that means if you're sort of flirting with that playoff mix and maybe not even get in or win your conference championship,

if you're one of those programs that feels like they're flirting with it for about 10 weeks of the season, then that's really the best that you can do unless you have the standard of, say, in Alabama or Clemson or maybe even now Georgia. But Georgia's a good example because Georgia plays in a national championship, loses an epic game to Tua. They're hanging around, but they still got Bama in the way. But I'm looking at it going, how are you guys knocking this program? They're right there, talent-wise. And I know people didn't like Kirby until he won a national championship, or at least they were frustrated by him until he won it. But I'm thinking this is all you can really ask for.

They are in the mix, and this is very real. This is a real thing. It's not the flashy things. This is real, and this matters. And it might work out for them. It might not. But the fact that they're in this group of teams is really what you're hoping to do when you're building a program.

And that's what's important, the real stuff. Memphis has a real guy. I don't know how long that list is. I usually would argue that it's like six or seven players that can absolutely change the course of your franchise. That list is rarely 10 players long. I think it's usually a lot shorter than that, but we'll flirt with different things.

But even if you look at the timeline of, say, a Trey Young. Trey Young comes in, okay, is it going to be good? Is it going to be a disaster? It was way too negative for him early on. Remember the summer league and all that kind of stuff. And then you could see how talented he is. It'd be like, okay, he's scoring. But then last year it felt real because they beat the Sixers. They play in the Eastern Conference finals. And now you're starting to feel like if you're a Hawks fan, you have something to build on. Same thing happened with Giannis. Giannis took a little while and it was like, okay, there's some exciting plays and some cool videos that break out, but how good of a basketball player is he? And then he transitions

into, holy shit, I think we really have something here in Milwaukee, despite their frustrations and the playoff exits, certainly the one against Miami a couple of years ago, you at least had a building block, somebody that changes who you are as a franchise, the culture, all these things that we could throw around a lot, but you know what? Culture is actually important. It's just that people pretend that they can just invent it out of thin air. So whatever the sexy things that you hear about Ja, you're going to hear a ton of it, and he deserves all of those things. But the way I would look at it is saying, Memphis is real. They have one of these franchise-changing players. And honestly, that's way more important than some

of the sexy headlines where i think it'd be really aggressive statements about jaw and as sexy as those all may be they're not nearly as important as now looking at memphis as a real team a team you have to take serious in the playoffs a player like jaw that can close out maybe anybody with his offensive attacking style a deep team that seems to love playing with each other. And it really feels like a team that, you know, I'm always a little cautious about young teams in the playoff. The history there isn't great, but it may feel like they've jumped the line here a little bit.

And that very well could be the case with whatever happens with Phoenix. If Golden State doesn't have enough size, if Draymond doesn't come back and look as good as he did the first half of the season, considering all the games he's missed, all the East teams that I keep changing my mind about and not wanting to give up on some and completely dismissing others, the most important part of the Memphis conversation is that they're real. They need to be taken that way, even though that's nearly not as much fun as some of the other things you're going to hear this week. other things you're going to hear this week. Dirk Nowitzki joins us. Book is The Great Nowitzki Basketball and the Meaning of Life by Thomas Pletzinger. So let's do this, man. Let's go back where this book also goes back to the mid-90s. You're a teenager in Germany. You're seven feet tall. You're working out with Holger and you're trying to figure out this basketball thing did you have any idea did you know like what were those years like prior to the hoop summit and then

ultimately the draft like when you're going wait am i actually this good i mean it was a strange time meeting holger and you know i wasn't quite i'm i'm german So I think by nature, we're a little more negative and we have doubts. And so I wasn't sure whether it was good enough and even to play in the NBA or let alone make it. So, but, you know, Holger was big in my life there. When I met him when I was 15, 16, he taught me how to play, how to shoot, how to move.

And he was sort of my mentor that I needed at the time to get through school and get to the next level. And he showed me how to work hard. And so, you know, a couple of weeks ago at the Jersey retirement, when I said to him that how much he meant to me without him, I probably would have not made it to the stage. I really meant that. He was vital in my life and my career. And I met him at a great time where, you know, the teenager years are really tough. As you know, you have all these things in your mind and you want to do and that gets you off track. And so he was there and made sure that I was always focused and got to live my dreams. So I do owe him, owe him a lot. And even my first couple of years in the league,

when things weren't going well at all, my first year was super tough, the lockout year. And he was always a phone call away. So it was, it was tough times, obviously going through, but looking back at now,

these years were really vital for me to understand and how to work, how to be a professional and how to make it in the league. So those were So those were vital lessons. So 16, you're with Wurzburg, right? But it's a men's team, but it was a second division. And then I was reading about it, like they would have beers and you would just be like, I just want to have

one because I don't want to be like an idiot kid. I mean, that had to be just an odd dynamic to be 16 now thrown into this man's world. Yeah, so we played in a men's team and some of them were like a few of them were professionals that they were paid decently and some of them were students uh we had a farmer on the team uh they're like was running a full-on farm with with horses and and during the day he was he was uh doing all his wheat and stuff so i mean it was uh it's a great dynamic.

You know, the club sports, it's just a different feeling than just the system over here where you play in school and then maybe AAU. But, you know, that's the system that's in Europe. You join a club and when you're good enough, you move up and you play with basically grown men. And it was a crazy time, man. I mean, I was 15. I was soaking it all in. I played with some of my guys that I've watched for years now on the same team. And they were having fun.

Obviously, they were professionals, but no, they were never going to go to the next level. So they were competing, but also having fun at the same time, going out after every game on the weekend. And so it was a fun time to go through. And I tried to stay focused as much as I could. So you went to actually, because you were starting to travel a little bit more, you saw the 96 Olympics in person, right? You just went to go check it out. What was that kind of feeling?

Knowing the Dream Team four years prior was probably maybe the first experience you got to maybe even thinking about basketball. Yeah, so 92 Olympics changed a lot for me. I always tell the story, Charles had number 14 in the Olympics, and then I changed my number 14. And then that's why it had a big impact on my basketball career and how I followed it and how I got excited about it. And in 96, I happened to be in Georgia for like a little high school tournament. The peach jam. Yeah. Yeah. So I was, I was there and I think it was in Savannah, Georgia that year.

And then on the way back, we flew from Atlanta. So I got to go to one or two games, uh, in the Olympics and I was sitting all the way up in, in the, in the Georgia dome. I think I remember and and just watching that so I was a huge basketball fan in 90s try to catch all NBA games at night you know get up watch the finals watch the all-star game you know just I was I was all in all in on basketball as it was a dream of mine to to to play there and watch as many games as I could. There was a time, I think, in the 90s where I knew every player on every roster.

I mean, that's how deep I was into it. And it was a great time to me in the 90s. It was amazing. You know, the music, the movies, the NBA style, how they played. I mean, the 90s to me is the best ever so you win the MVP in the under 18 tournament you know

Olga's starting to just get in your ear a little bit more being like hey this is real I know there's a bunch of different things like you graduate high school around this time Patino was on the road

like Patino at that point is going to be running the Celtics so what happened in this secret workout because I'm from New England and lived in Boston for a while. And I want to get to the Dallas part, obviously.

But there's so many people that still think that you were supposed to be a Celtic. That is true. That did happen. I met up with Rick and he was on his vacation. And I'm not sure all this is actually legal. But I met up with Rick and we did a private workout and he really liked what he saw. And so I guess he said, you know, we're going to draft this European kid, but they had picked number 10. And, you know, at the time, I think it was a little risky because I wasn't even sure

whether I was going to go to the NBA because I wasn't sure my body was ready. You know, like we mentioned earlier, I only played the second division in Germany. And so I still was thinking about maybe going to college or staying in Europe for a few more years. And so that was the very, that was very risky route to take for some of these NBA clubs that were actually interested in me. And then, you know, I guess Mavericks and Donnie Nelson at the time was an assistant coach of the Hoop Summit when I played there. And so I guess, you know, he liked what he saw there. And so I actually never ended up falling to the 10th spot. So they traded

for me from Milwaukee, drafted me. They had a deal going, uh, and then it was actually a great move. They got, uh, for track to trailer, uh, and, and somebody that got me and Steve Nash at the same time on the same, on the same day. And that obviously ended up being a great move for, for us. And that really set us up for, for the next couple of years. But, uh, you know, I think Boston is a great, for for us and that really set us up for for the next couple years but uh you know i think boston is a great great sports town and i think i would have had a lot of fun there too but i i think it worked out for for myself yeah i think it worked out for you too if i can just back up though before we get to the hoop summit part because there's two things you had to enter

the military right for service like it's your duty. You had to enter the military for service. It's your duty at that age. In the book, you're clearly miserable because you're not playing any basketball. You're seven feet. You're walking around being like, what am I doing? Then you ended up playing against Barkley in some exhibition. What happened when you played against Charles

Barkley? They were on a Nike promotion tour and it was actually called the hoop heroes. And, uh, they brought a team with Gary Payton, Vin Baker, Scotty Pippen, Jason Kidd, Charles Barkley. Uh, they came over and did a promotional tour, played two games in Germany and one in Paris. And, uh, that was, that was super exciting. I was just, uh, I was all, I was done with basic training in my army. So I was in a sports company for the rest of eight months where I had time.

I could practice every day. And so I was able to go to those games and be a part of that. And, um, you know, just, it was a wide open game. There was no really defense blade. There was the, the, the, the gyms were packed. So it was just a fun promotional basketball thing. And of course, you know, there was wide open. So I had a few jumpers and I had a few dunks. And that's where Charles, afterwards the press conference said the famous lines

that he can get me into Auburn. And if I wanted to, if I wanted to. And, you know, that of course at the time, you know, Charles is my hero. I'm wearing number 14 because he had 14 in the Olympics. And so just to hear those words, I was in awe and super shocked. And obviously things didn't work out that way. I didn't go to Auburn.

I decided then to go straight to the league and that worked out that way. But just to see those guys up close and see how they play, how they prepare and just to be on the court with them was a huge step for me and a super awe moment. But didn't he also ask you what the hell are you doing in the military?

You didn't understand it, right? Yeah, there was that. You didn't understand at the time. I think it was mandatory for understand at the time i think uh it was mandatory for for for germany uh at the time uh to go when you're done with high school to go in the military so i did a 10-month stint that's why if i would have gone to college i would have been an older uh obviously freshman in college so i was already by the time i came to the nba i was already 20 at that because because i had a year in the nba i was already 20 at that because because

i had a year in the army so but yeah nobody really understand that fact but you know the good thing about the army i only had to do two months of basic training which was every day and that was that was a grind that's what what's described in the book and then the other eight months i was able to train my myself live at home you know That's when I really started to be a professional. I was able to train in the morning, train at night, and really go after it. And I learned a lot in those seven, eight months. I was able to train with Holger on a daily basis. So that really took me over the top. No, you're right. Holger being with you at every stop and the Hoops Summit, it's funny because he's behind the bench and you're like, what the hell's going on? But Donnie Nelson, Donnie Jr. is on the staff and it's in their backyard.

And so all these things are happening so fast. You're still, like you say here in the book, and I remember at the time, I was like, is this guy even coming over? Because I can't express, you know, 20 plus years ago to the audience that's younger, we're like, who's this fucking guy? Like, what's this deal like is it because we just weren't ready for it we weren't ready for it you know it was it was the beginning that the the european explosion the skidisvili is going five overall because you turned out to be so good like this stuff hadn't happened you remember that oh come on man do you ever talk to skidisvili you should probably be thinking i've talked to skidisv you. I've talked to Skeeter for a while, but no, I haven't seen him in a minute.

No, I haven't seen him in a minute. Okay, so how close was it for real for you potentially going to Stanford or Cal? So I did a trip while I was in the Army. They allowed me to make a trip, and I did a little college visit trip, and I visited Stanford, I visited Cal and I visited Kentucky actually with, with Tubby Smith coach at the time. And I really loved what I saw. I mean, I, a lot of guys that I played with over the years, they always say their best time was a couple of years in college.

So, you know, part of me regrets a little bit, not, not trying it at least for one year, but I think for my development, I'm not sure it would have been good, you know, part of me regrets a little bit not trying it at least for one year. But I think for my development, I'm not sure it would have been good. You know, in college back then, it was still the big guys need to lift weights and they need to go on the block. And there was not – I think that would have been not great for my development. So I think I did – thinking back, it was the right decision to go right in the league and go to the Nelson's who as you know had a different philosophy and they were already it was it was still it was just uh he donnie always

saw that the sport different you know it's smaller guys who everybody can shoot everybody needs to use their skill and it wasn't uh it was a mismatch master and so that was perfect that played in my hand so i think if i would have gone anywhere else with college or even another nba team i'm not sure my skills would have developed the way they did in dallas so that was just a perfect fit for for me and my skill set early on my career okay so we go through the trade and then ironically enough the other pieces they go grab nash because donnie wants you to play wide open you know and you're right because if it was somebody else they're probably mad you're not on the block every time.

And I mean, credit to Holger for understanding that you're a new power forward. You're this new thing that we're not even ready for yet. And then you bring in Nash, who wasn't getting a ton of run with Phoenix. So Donnie's like, look, it's going to all work out. And then, as you had said, you thought about maybe staying at the higher division in Germany

or maybe even playing in like, I think it was maybe Madrid or maybe one of the top leagues. And then I'll come over, I'll get my body right. And then everybody's like, no, no, we're doing it. We're doing it. You have a meeting, you all hang out. Sounds like you had some beers. You're like, all right, I'm coming to Dallas. And then the lockout happens.

And so you're basically hanging out, waiting. And then you get a notice being like, get to Dallas in 24 hours, and that was your rookie year. How hard was that? It was nuts, that whole period. I wasn't sure whether I was good enough to come. Right after the draft, Dallas flew me in, and I got to meet Steve and Mike and some of the teammates. They basically said, hey, we're not a great team.

You can develop. There's no pressure at the beginning come on over and uh and and before i had to fly back to germany after the draft i had basically had to give them a decision and those were some sleepless nights because i like i said i i'm a negative guy from you know in my personality i wasn't sure whether it was good enough. And so there were some sleepless nights. And then finally, before I flew back to Germany, I told him, okay, Steve and Mike were so nice. I'm going to try it. And then, and then literally the lockout happened a week later. So I didn't, I didn't sign my contract yet. So I was still eligible to play in Germany so I moved I went back home uh we couldn't go in the in our NBA gym anyways we couldn't practice together we couldn't scrimmage there

and so um and so I went I went back home I traveled Holger I played uh for my team who now in the meantime got promoted so we were in the first division now in in Germany and so the competition was good or better than in the second division. And I was able to live at home with my parents. And I felt comfortable. And then one day, sure enough, every day, you know, we didn't really have the internet back then. So I was checking on, I'm not sure if that's a thing. It's called a video text.

So on your TV, you can click this thing and then the news come up. And so every morning, I check the news on this video texting on my TV. And one morning I wake up and it says NBA season saved. And I about to, about snapped. I was like, oh my God, I got so nervous and anxious. Sure enough, that day Donnie called and said, Hey, it's time, it's time to report. And I remember I was like, I was so nervous and almost frightened to come over now and have this started starting. So it was a tough time in my life. And then coming over and then, you know, basically had what, 10 days, not even with training camp. I didn't even know all the plays. I didn't know all the defensive coverages. And then, boom,

started the season, right? So it was tough. And then, as you know, it was a 50-game season in two and a half months. So there was a stretch where we had six games in eight days, you know, in six different cities. And coming from Germany, I had one game a weekend. So it was a different world. You know, my language wasn't great. I didn't understand all the English yet. So life was full of challenges. And it was a tough season for me to get going. But, you know, by the end of the first season,

we were kind of out of the playoffs. And old Nell said, hey, you know, I'm going to put you back in the starting lineup and, you know, get some confidence going, get some games. There's no pressure now. And that was big for me. I always remember the game in Phoenix. I had 28 points in my rookie year. And, you know, that showed me that gave me a lot of confidence. If you work hard and you work hard this summer i had summer league i had a european championship and if you keep working on your game i think you can actually make it in this league and so going through it at the time was uh was tough uh you

know missed home uh it was uh the culture shock uh that the game was so different, more physical and faster than I'd ever imagined going through really sucked. But looking back now, it was a very, very important time in my life where I learned a lot and picked up a lot. Because again, you know, I can't express this enough that you were a pioneer, not only as an international player, but your approach to the game. Who was the meanest to you as like a superstar vet who just thought you sucked it was just so dismissive there have to be a few good stories

there yeah i mean on my team we had some old school guys that uh that obviously didn't really want the young german now all of a sudden to take over so you know i had cedric ceballos on the team uh who was who was tough on me and always kicked my butt in practice every day. Uh, we had Robert Pack who was, uh, uh, who was a veteran at the time and he actually had number 14. And so I kind of broached him like, can I get number 14? And he looked at me like I was out of my mind. And that's why, uh, 41 came about. Cause I did not just ended up flipping the numbers because he had 14. And he looked at me like I was absolutely crazy when I wanted 14.

We had Hardrod Williams, who was a legend and had been around forever. I couldn't understand a word of his Louisiana accent. So he tried to teach me something. I'm just standing there looking around like, what is this guy telling me? I don't understand his accent. We had AC Green, who's been around for like 19 years at the time. So he was always tough for me. And so I remember my rookie year, you know,

you had to do a couple chores and carry the bags to guys' rooms, which I don't think they do anymore now, and shoot around when we were in opposing big arenas. I always said before we stretch, I had to put all the balls up. So AC Green is like, come here, it's time to stretch and shoot around. So I walk over, he's like, boom, he toe punts the ball somewhere in the 85th row of the arena. And I'm like, go get the ball.

So everybody's already stretching. I'm walking around the arena trying to chase balls and uh you know there was some some of that going on the the the rookie rookie uh stuff and but you know it's it's it was something i had to go through it wasn't it wasn't really fun standing out in the freezing cold we landed somewhere in the east coast and i'm i'm doing the bags outside i'm like i'm shaking, getting the backs on the bus, delivering the guys' backs to their rooms. And that was my first year.

It was interesting. And the guys, you know, picked their spots of being hard on me, but also trying to support me so I could still make it in this league. I know he's one of your closest friends, Steve Nash, for him to come over. Look, he's from Canada, so it's not like he's from Germany here. But what was it like those first couple of years as you were both trying to figure out if you were good enough to be in this league? What was that friendship like that early? Well, Steve obviously had a little bit of a head start. He played college for four years in Santa Clara, and then he got actually drafted by Phoenix. And he was behind KJ and behind Jason Kidd and Phoenix, got to practice there,. And I don't know, we just had a similar background.

He loved soccer. I loved soccer. So we had something to talk about. And, you know, we lived close to each other first couple years. So we just developed this friendship and worked super hard. Every night, I can remember, on off nights, we went back to the gym. Let's play horse. Let's play one-on-one.

Let's play all shooting games. And so it was a fun period of hanging out, getting to know each other, having a friendship and a relationship, and then, you know, and also working hard. And then the Mavs, we were starting to get better. The Mavs were starting to get better. And the first time the Mavs were getting in the playoffs and then Mark buying the team was

a big turnaround and all this all this started to happen my first couple years in this league and it was it was a fun time it was a fun time there turning around a franchise with Mark you know you know giving us a new arena getting us us a new plane, you know, putting Dallas back on the basketball map after a shaky 90s decade where they were a little bit of a laughingstock. So that was a fun time to be there when we turned this franchise around. And Steve and Mike, who are still great friends of mine, were a big part of my early success and making me feel welcome and showing me how to be professional on, but also off the floor. How do you speak with the media? How do you act on community services?

How are you in your community? And so all that I learned from these great professionals and they're still great friends to this day. Did you have any idea who this Ross Perot guy was who had previously owned the team for Mark? Like I can't imagine somebody in American trying to explain to you who Ross Perot was. I did not.

So when I was drafted, the Nelsons came to Germany and see me talk to me, meet me, see my background and then fly me over to the States and kind of, you know get used to or meet some some people in Dallas so when the Nelsons came actually Ross Perot flew in to Germany to my hometown to come for a press conference and so that's when I met Ross for for the first time and super nice guy super super supportive but at. But at the time, I had no idea.

I mean, we didn't have internet. I didn't know anything really about Dallas. I mean, all I've seen was a little bit of the TV show that my parents maybe watched and I walked by. So I'm thinking I'm getting there. There's cowboys and rodeos. And I actually got there and I'm like, wow, this is a real city with skyscrapers and everything. I had really no idea, no clue what to expect and how things are going to play out. So it was just like a leap in the cold water and figure it out.

But yeah, Ross was cool. And then, of course, Mark bought my the second my end of my second year and then obviously everybody knows the relationship we developed and the friendship we developed after yeah did other people think it was weird you were such good friends with the owner you know i always say uh mark was young at the time he was like 40s whatever when he bought the team he was a super basketball fan he had season tickets already the team. He was a super basketball fan. He had season tickets already before. And so he was a diehard fan. And he came to every practice.

He came to every game. He flew with us on the plane, the road games. So I don't know. He was just always around. And he was a big fan. And so we had a lot of fun. And we played horse and one-on-one sometimes after practice. And we just developed a good relationship.

And, you know, I always tell a story. Not a lot of team owners would come to their players' bachelor party, but he actually came to my bachelor party. So I think that shows the relationship that we developed over those years. And I owe him so much and how he took, he always helped me off the floor if there was stuff with my family. And of course,

there's normal issues and he was always there for me. And then I do owe Mark a lot and we still have a great relationship. So you make an all-star team your fourth year in, all-star every year

from 2001 to 2012. And we all remember the 2006 NBA Finals. You're up two games and nothing. You're up 12 with eight and a half minutes to go. Blow the lead. You lose four straight. What was that moment like for you as a player,

knowing what you weren't able to accomplish? You know, 06, I was super frustrated after Miami came back on us. But you know, Oh six. Uh, I was super frustrated after Miami came back on us, but you know what? I felt like I was just getting into my prime. Uh, I felt like I was playing some of my best basketball. I'm thinking we're going to be there every year. Now,

you know, we got this, we're a good team. I can carry the team there. And I wasn't actually that frustrated after Oh six, of course it was super tough, but I felt good about where we were as a franchise and where I was at playing at my highest level. So I kind of brushed it off like, okay, we'll be back. We'll make this again. And then

we followed this up with an unbelievable season 06-07, which was my MVP year. We won 67 games. We're in the number one seed, getting ready to roll. We had the Spurs number that year. I think we beat them three out of four, which was our biggest rival. We felt good about that matchup. So I'm thinking in my head, this is our year. This is our year. This is when we're going to win it all.

And we run into this buzzsaw of a hot Warriors team who had Coach Nelson, who was our coach there, and he knew exactly all of our weaknesses and my weaknesses, and he exploited all of them. And so we ended up losing to the Warriors in the first round. We were the first one seed at the time to lose in a seven-game series. And I got to say, that year I was more disappointed first round we were the first one seed at the time to lose in a seven game series and i gotta say that year i was more disappointed uh than and then losing the finals in 06 because i had such

high hopes we were the team to beat i gotta say i didn't leave my house for about about two weeks i felt i let my team down i felt like I let the city down, the franchise. And that was probably as frustrated as I was in my career and disappointed and just a gut punch. And that took me a while to get over. The 06, like I said, I was okay in my head. I'm like, we'll be here every year now. But the 07 year really took my heart, ripped my heart out out there for a while and that took me a while to to recover and i wanted to leave town as soon as possible get away as far as possible and the nba calls you like you got to stick around there's actually a chance you get in

the mvp and i'm like i don't even want it you know just keep this thing i'm so embarrassed i'm like so then i had to stick around for like 10 days, two weeks in Dallas to wait. Cause as you know, back in the days they presented, um, the, the, the MVP trophy during the second round, the middle of the second round. So I had to wait, I had to wait in Dallas and not leave my house and just be frustrated every day. And then I got the MVP and I remember doing that press conference. I was dreading. And then I was able to leave the country after that. But, man, that was a super, super tough summer.

And I took that one harder than I did the 06 finals loss. That's what made 11 so much better. I mean, it's one thing to win a championship, but to go through those things. Because I remember it well, and I was on the air with it. Because you were different, you were soft. Because you you didn't win it was only because you were soft and then that stuff just bothers me because it's so dismissive um and i knew you weren't soft you know like i knew you you were battling with guys all the time and then it was like oh now he's not soft anymore you know and it's all bullshit it's all playing the results look some guys are soft and some guys

aren't i never thought that of you, but because you're a tall, white Euro, it's like, oh, well, he must be soft because those are the rules. You beat a Heat team that's the favorite, that is arguably one of the best groupings that we've ever seen in the prime.

How were you able to beat them? What was it about you beating this team that everybody felt like they were picking? Well, I think we were a little fortunate and I got to say that that was their first year that they were together. I think if you remember, you know, LeBron and Wade and Bosh, they were still trying to figure out how, how they play with each other, who's taking the big shots, how are they defining their roles. And so I think there was still some question marks in their own minds, how this is all going to work. And so I think we snuck in there at the right time.

You know, obviously they were way more talented than us. I think we had a group that had great chemistry. We knew our roles. We knew who our defenders were. We knew where we're going when we needed a big bucket so. We were just a really tight unit at the time and we had a great group

and we were just skilled enough, honestly to. To overcome their their skill level and just battling together, battling together and getting some key stops when we needed to and and and we're able to grind it out. But yeah, like I said, we were fortunate.

If we would have run into them in year two or maybe year three of them together, I think it would have been a different outcome. But, you know, fortunate for us, we didn't have to worry about that. And we saw them in year one when they just came together. And that was our time. So just, you know, making them work, making LeBron and Dewey try to make things tough on them and on the offensive and move the ball. They were so athletic.

They closed out to our shooters so fast that I think the first two games we were kind of overwhelmed. We were like, you know I think the first two games we were kind of overwhelmed. We were like, you know, in the first couple rounds, we had all these good looks and open shots and things were going well. And then all of a sudden, these guys were so athletic on the perimeter. I mean, our shooters couldn't even get really in the game. So it was tough, but we figured out some ways where we could get our shots and we were able to beat them, which was obviously made 06 and 07 kind of worth it, you know,

for me to go through the lowest of the low and fight through those times and keep working hard and that motivated me to push harder and then to finally, you know, get to the top that made it even sweeter and all these disappointments I used as fuel and work hard to get better.

So that made 11, of course, that much sweeter. Just two quick things as we finish up. Did you feel that because it took a long time for the NBA to accept you and then just all the shit you took because of 06 and then 07, because you're right, the Warriors thing was brutal for you and then you got to wait around and then everybody know just all the shit you took because of 06 and then 07 because you're right the warriors thing was brutal for you and then you gotta wait around and then everybody wants to after you win 67 games like oh this guy shouldn't even be the mvp and you're like all right well that's that's ridiculous but then everybody felt like they liked you you know

winning winning can cure a lot of things but did you feel then like hey i've been an all-star now for a decade and now i have my ring that did you feel it did you feel like like, hey, I've been an all-star now for a decade, and now I have my ring? Did you feel it? Did you feel like all of a sudden now everybody loved Dirk and that even other superstars appreciated and respected you more as a contemporary than prior to those years? I did feel a lot more respect, even from when I came to the all-star game the next year, even the media. I don't know.

It was a different different respect level I think it gave me a lot of confidence too walking around my peers I think it took a lot of weight off my shoulders because I was always I always disappointed every year and maybe I maybe I'm not good enough to to to get the top. And then when you get there, though, it's like this sense of pride, this sense of satisfaction. You know, now what? Now what can you say? I think I've had some of that.

And I got to say, it felt good. It felt good the next couple of years to go to the All-Star Games. And, you know, there's not much you can say about me now. I did deliver. So I got to say that that was a very proud moment for myself, of course. It wasn't just your footwork, your height, you know, the quickness in your movements, which is different than just end-to-end speed. The thing I always thought was amazing about you, and you can tell me if this is part of

the secret or not, I always felt like as a shooter, your base could be a mess. Your feet could be wrong. Your hips could be, your shoulders could not even be square, but it was always the same out of your hands, that it was always the same release at the top. And even though no one would look at the rest of it and say, Hey, it's okay to have this all, you know, you had times where it's totally in line, but even when you were totally out of alignment, your, your hands and your fingers were always the same. And I don't know that I've seen a lot of guys ever do it that way. So I think you want to start by having a good balance

and that I don't want to have young kids now starting to shoot like that. You have to learn the basics first. And I did, of course, hundreds of thousands of reps to get to the point where i was comfortable uh shooting all these uh the shots so that's obviously the work you don't see uh but you're right once once i was i was getting a little older and had all the experience i felt like with my height uh and and with my touch that i could always get a good look up no whether end of the shot clock, I'm kind of spinning and spinning.

If I just get a quick lean back and I just get a quick glimpse of the basket, I still had a good shot or had a good chance of making the shot. And that's part because I had to get my elbow square. I think that's important. I always had need of my elbow to go towards the rim. And then the rest was just natural to me. I've done it a million times, and so it's really all I needed was a split second and just a little bit of separation from my defender,

and I felt like no matter how my body was torqued, I was getting, once my elbow was in the right position, my fingers were on my elbow, my follow through was, we'll do the rest. So you're right. It's a lot of work that goes in and a lot of, you know, I started shooting with Holger when I was like 15 years old. So, you know, that's a lot of work you put in. And every day we worked on my shots, even when I was in my thirties and forties, every day I got to the gym, I started, you know, up close and you shoot a couple five six footers and you work on your touch and so you don't go in the gym and you see me shooting a one-legged

fade away you know that's not how i start every day you need to work on your skill level and and and polish your shot and work on certain things uh to to obviously get to the outcome where you can shoot all sorts of shots the book is the The Great Novitsky Basketball and the Meaning of Life by Thomas Pletzinger. And Dirk, it has been a blast. It's great to catch up with you again. And good luck with the book. Thank you. Yes, good to see you.

And thanks for helping out. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids,

I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. LifeAdviceRR at Gmail. Welcome in, everyone. Kyle, good to have you back, buddy. How was the vacation? It was the best.

It was just the best. It was cold, but it was still the best. All right. I like hearing that. Positive stuff here to get the week started, although we're now on a Tuesday-Thursday schedule, so we weren't able to check in with Kyle soon enough. Let's get to it.

Bill and I started up the Sunday pods. That's why we're back on Tuesday-Thursdays. And I would say that I appreciate Kyle forwarding me some of these things because it's become a thing now where people can't tell if these little one-liners that I throw in the bill pods are on purpose, if Bill hates them, if Bill doesn't get them. I feel like we get more reaction on these than almost anything else I say in those hour and a half, two hour pods. I know what I'm doing. And I think Bill knows what I'm doing. And I don't think he hates it. I just don't think he cares. And we just go right over him. I think there's maybe a few times he doesn't get him, but I'll be so so kind of quick under my breath with him.

I'm not exactly setting it up for this laugh track either. When we brought up Andrew Bynum, when I said he works out at my gym, which some were accusing of a name drop, I was just telling you the guy's still around, walking around, saying hi to people, and he's really nice. Because I think Andrew Bynum is a guy

that's really easy to forget, so I just kind of threw that in there. I don't think anybody goes, you know what, I was kind of on the fence about Rosillo, but he said he saw Andrew Bynum at his gym. I think that guyham is a guy that's really easy to forget. So I just kind of threw that in there. I don't think anybody goes, you know what? I was kind of on the fence about Rosillo, but he said he saw Andrew Bonham at his gym. I think that guy's fucking awesome. I don't expect that to happen. I don't think anyone's ever said that about me or would put those two things together and say, here about Rosillo? Fucking ran into Bonham like two years ago at Equinox. That guy's just killing it, huh? So I don't think that that would happen. So yeah,

I don't think Bill cares. I don't think that that would happen so yeah i i don't i don't think bill cares i don't think bill addresses him but a lot of people would kind of miss you just it's not a big mystery uh you know but i'm gonna keep doing them so there you go you know what i would say about the little ones is sometimes we go on zooms and you can't really hear so much especially if if it's the classic rossillo brand like under the under the breath thing sometimes sometimes he might not even hear it. And I'll be like, oh, Russillo said something there. I wonder what it is. I'll find out later when we get the mic audio. So sometimes if it's like a real low one, we'll just find out when we hear the mic version. A little future Russillo nuggets. Yeah, I think Bill is just kind of like,

I think he lets you like, he thinks you're having fun. So he's like, I'll let Russel get his few quicks out. But he's got bigger things to fry. He's talking about expansion and stuff. He's like, we got to move on. So he keeps the pace going, but he lets you drop these things in there. I think he enjoys it, but I don't think he wants to dwell on it for long.

So I think it's good. I don't know if enjoy is the right word, but I think you're right. I think he's like, okay. He appeases you. Yeah. He's just like, I'll let Russel get a couple fingers out there

and make him feel good about himself. Look, I know he hates the long stories. I mean, that's been established. My point would be like on the Jimmy Chitwood thing. I don't actually think I was Jimmy Chitwood in high school. And I'm like, hey, we're doing like 90 plus minutes on Hoosiers. I think I can explore the space here for like four or five minutes. I think we're okay.

I think we'll all be all right. And that's usually a pretty dividing line. Because you really like bill then you hate that i do those and then if you if you like me you think it's hilarious and so um or maybe you don't think it's hilarious i don't know i just figure in the 90 minutes to two hours i'm like yeah like you know just kind of let something fly but no he doesn't seem to enjoy him all that much, so we'll just keep it moving. Just like one of those segments. Alright. Okay. We got a couple different ones here. I'm looking forward to them.

Alright. I failed my first interview for a college newspaper. Okay. This guy's throwing his name out there, which we're not going to do, do you? 5'7", 190. 5'7", would be a weird way to list your height. I don't lift as much, so I'm trying to get back to my normal weight at 150. Okay.

Anyway, aspiring sports writer enrolled at a D1 program. It's not a major program, but they're D1 and everything. All right. So, it's a big deal. I write articles for the school newspaper covering games, writing stories. I was assigned by my editor a story covering baseball team captains. This is my first time interviewing players for a story and boy, could this interview not go any worse.

First part, I forgot about the interview entirely. Okay, not great. I had it marked on my calendar but still forgot as I was at my full-time job at the time of the interview and was greeted to a few emails and calls from the PR lady, which weren't exactly pleasant. All right. You just missed it. No one, I'll tell you this. No one, no one loves that in the business. People, people aren't huge fans of that. Uh,

second, I could not connect to the meeting. And when I did, I was totally unprepared to ask questions that left the players confused. They were probably laughing at me. Ha ha. He threw in his own ha ha about them laughing at him, I believe. So I'm assuming this is a Zoom issue. It does happen. It's happened to us.

It's happened with me trying to connect to somebody for something. And it's also happened to people that we had booked to do some stuff. And it does happen. Usually you're able to get through it though. I would say over 90% of the time you come up with some kind of solution. It's like your Brandon Marshall interview. Wait, when we had the wrong

Brandon Marshall? Yeah, you just kind of did it on the fly, asked some questions, you made it work. That was horrifying. Quick on your toes. Yeah. I don't... If they ever do a thing on me one day, I'd be like, you know, he had a strong points.

He could have been better here. You know, some people really liked him. Others didn't quite get him, but maybe his peak was in the middle of seeing Brandon Marshall on zoom going. That's not the Brandon Marshall. What's it like being away from your team? Remember that was one of your questions. in the middle of seeing Brandon Marshall on Zoom going, that's not the Brandon Marshall we thought we booked. What's it like being away from your team?

I have to remember that was one of your questions. We had no idea where. So what's been going on, man? What's good with you? I just mentioned a little radio podcast Hall of Fame case. And it's like, yeah, you know, he was on a couple shows, kind of, you know, number two to Vint Pelt for a few years there. But like there was that one Brandon Marshall, and he just nailed that.

Like, could anybody else in the industry do that? That's your, like, that's your, you're in the pantheon of incredible interviews because of that. Yeah, and look, it went well. He was terrific. And once I started, thank God I remember him because I liked him a lot as a linebacker with Denver. I'm like, wait, okay, hold on.

And now some people could be broadcast, and be like, how could you have forgotten? Trust me. That's a pretty niche lane. Especially when all the emails, by the way, were pitching the receiver. Yes. We didn't do a bad job reading.

No, this wasn't like we screwed it up. All of us on our end thought we were getting the receiver. We were pitched him we said yes we were good to go no offense to the linebacker but when he popped up on the zoom i'm like what the fuck is going on in my head and i'm just like all right let's go end up being good and you guys you guys are boys now kind of yeah we hit it off we were we were we were cool i don't think we followed up a ton since then but yeah i think I think, yeah, I appreciate it.

That was one of the more fun days I've had. I felt like I was at a sleepover and we just broke the chair upstairs. I was like, whoa, what are we going to do? And it worked out. It worked out. What an incredible analogy by Kyle. Okay, all right, all right.

So our guy doesn't show up. Then when he does connect, can't really connect, was unprepared, asked bad questions. Three, connection failed again and had to ask the PR lady. I hope you didn't call her PR lady. If I can reschedule the interview. Instead, she conducted the interview for me after I texted her some questions. What do I do? Has anything like this ever happened to you during your career at college? In college, I would have definitely missed a million interviews, but I also wasn't nearly motivated enough to be involved in the student newspaper, radio station, any of those things. I remember my father would be like, hey, do you think maybe you should look into any of this stuff? Like, dude, don't worry about it. I'll get to it. So credit to you for at least being a little bit more motivated. I feel so embarrassed. I think I'm going to be known as the guy who doesn't take this craft serious. Why do you think people would say that, dude? Crazy.

Yeah. Yeah. Please help. Is there any way I can recover from this? Will the players be able to take me seriously going forward? Or am I totally overthinking this situation? Nobody's even thinking about it the way that I am. Well, I hope nobody else is thinking about the way you are.

I hope for you it's a bit of a wake-up call to go, look, whatever you need to do, if you're bad at skating, you have to figure it out. You have to get better at that stuff because if you don't get better at that stuff, then it's going to be a really tough industry for you. Here's the thing I think I have the biggest problem with. Technical shit happens, but if you knew you had to interview these players, then why were you not prepared with questions? Why did the technical part of this, why did all of these things happen where you weren't ready? Was it because you weren't ready because you completely forgot when the interview was actually going to happen and you were going to wait until the last minute to prep the interview?

Because that's something that you're going to have to get better at in general. So I could tell you to be on it more and schedule. I don't know you. Maybe you fucked stuff like this up all the time. Maybe this is a one-off and it doesn't really matter. What I would tell you to make you feel a little bit better is that a bunch of college baseball players probably aren't going to remember the guy that did a bad interview from the college newspaper, because no offense to the college newspaper people out there, you're just not going to be seasoned enough as an interviewer

at this point that you're going to stand out. And actually, if you ask super complicated questions that were trying to be like a little Charlie Rose show off from the student newspaper, that might make you stand out because you'd be like, what's up with this person? So I would get over that part because they've probably already gotten over it. I would reach out to the PR person. I would go in person. Okay. I would go seek her out. I would sit her down and say, I've embarrassed myself. I completely fucked this up. And it was a big wake-up call. And if there's anything I can do to prove it to you that this is important to me, let me know what I can do, whatever I need to do. Because if it is important to you, then you have to take that step. If it isn't important to

you, then you don't have to do any of that stuff. Problem solved. But it sounds like this is important to you. It's amazing what people will do with that face-to-face interaction where, look, you can solve a lot of problems. You can solve a lot of problems by you showing that you care enough to take out the time. And it's actually not that hard. And it is very simple. And if you come off as sincere and you seem decent enough in person, you're not an asshole. This can actually work out for you. And maybe it's just a little bit of a lesson and you'll remember this. And it's great that it happened to you so early when not as much was on the line with all of this. So that's the other part of it. So I wouldn't worry about the player part, but I would say in the future,

you never know. You never know when you're going to be... There's times where I can still not feel as prepared as I need to be, but I'm guessing you weren't prepared here because you didn't know about the interview. And when you finally got connected, you were like, I don't even know how to be doing this today. If it's a habit, you're not prepared for interviews in general, then I would ask why you're even doing this, but I'm assuming it's the first part of it. So don't beat yourself up forever. It's not the end of the world, but make the steps that are necessary, go above and beyond to fix this. Because I would like to think at the college level, everyone's a little bit more accepting, even though it's so competitive. And there's probably a bunch of other people that love to be even given this chance. So don't screw it up again. I agree. It's like the, it's like, that's the time where you, you get to make those mistakes

and hopefully they stick with you. And sometimes you, you make them after they're like, you know, uh, I remember I drove my mom's truck one time, she would lent it to me and there was like the transmission light went on and I just kept fucking driving it for like the rest of the day until I couldn't drive it anymore. And I was like, ma, something's wrong. So like, that's one of those things where it's like, you'll never forget that when the light goes on, stop, uh, you fail a class in college, you know, or you fail two classes and then you get that wake up, whatever. It's just, it's, this is a part where you learn those lessons and thank God you didn't have to do it at your job. Like now, if, if you do end up with that job, you'll manically check your calendar, your Google calendar thing and keep it like, that's just

one of those, just one of those things. There's, there's just a million ways that you can say, I learned a lesson for something, but you sound like you're a little sick to your stomach about it and you're wondering what to do. And you'll never forget that. Your editor could have told you, could have warned you about all this stuff and basically taught you that lesson

without you having to go through it, but it probably wouldn't have stuck in your brain and you'll never forget this. So I think actually it's probably great that if you do end up in this career, you've got this embarrassing, messed up thing out of the way now i do like that kyle found just a sliver of a chance of maybe blaming somebody else here too well what do you mean he's like maybe the editor no i'm saying if your editor was like hey never if you just said not

not this but like when you start he's like hey never be late for anything never miss. Like he's trying to tell you the rules and how not to mess it up. Like that wouldn't have stuck in your brain until you actually screwed it up. And like, you know, kind of, you know, we're unprepared and felt awful giving this interview that we everyone involved in those sucks. Right. I think if it makes you feel better, like maybe cover a different sport next time, just kind of avoid that altogether. But at the end of the day, like I went to communication school, I took some journalism classes

and there are definitely some people that I went to school with who are now successful in the business, who are reporters, big network, anchors, whatever, who didn't have their shit together in college. And I'd be like, wow, that person ended up like kind of making it work. So I wouldn't worry about one screw up.

Like, yeah, it's embarrassing in the moment, but it doesn't really matter long-term. But you guys said the most important part. It's just a wake up and it makes you on edge for future things. So this one thing isn't going to ruin your career. But I think, you know, kind of figure out how to be better if you really want to do this thing. And I think that's just kind of the wake up call you needed. Yeah. By the way, people will still fuck up things like I've still fucked up stuff you know i remember a couple times where it was just like you know i didn't i screwed up the schedule you know what i mean like it it's not like it never like no one has ever done it it's just bad when it's your first impression

and some of the email i'm a little worried about like okay do you fully understand what you need to do here but yeah yeah, there's nothing. There's really, I can't emphasize this enough. There's so much value on when you do screw up, show up, get your ass kicked a little bit. Own it. Yeah. And you know, and don't argue. You're like, Hey, I screwed up. Okay. Well, here's your, well, this is where I see, I think you're wrong. It's like, no, you're the one that screwed up. You're going to have to take some stuff. You may even hear some stuff that you don't even want to hear. You may hear stuff that you think, oh, this is actually inaccurate. That's not the time to fight that fight.

All right. Another email here. I may, I will repeat a story I know I've told before. Audience is growing though. So these are some of those radio sort of slash podcast rules. They used to tell us this kind of stuff. It'd be like 70% of the audience was in the last six months. I never quite believed all that stuff, but I think it was a way for people to kind of forgive you for being repetitive.

Because when you were talking, at least on radio, 15 hours a week for that many years, stuff's going to get repeated. And I know there's certain little lessons or stuff that I can tell at times. repeated and i know there's certain little lessons or stuff that i can tell at times i'm like i know i've told this before but i think i will uh repeat some of this stuff just because of life advice part alone and how um you know just know there's more of an audience now so are guys checking in about pursuing stand-up comedy 57 145 short guy thank you for confirming anyway uh i work in the news industry in north carolina but i just accepted a bigger job in New York City. I'm very excited about it, not only for the professional advancement aspect, but to finally escape my hometown and try a different lifestyle. love the corporate American grind. And part of me wants to do it because I fantasize about being able to hit the road and travel to comedy clubs around the country for a living, even if that means not making a ton of money. I work in news now, so I'm used to living average at best. I

don't think I'll ever be the guy who isn't sure if he should buy a Ferrari because it could create bad vibes with his wife. All right. So we're talking about financially, you're not worried about any of these things because of wherever you're at. Cool. Got it. All right. I've done some open mics around town, college. It went well. I was always the funny guy, the friend group. But I know to be super funny and build a career, you have to be pretty much

all in on stand-up comedy. Fortunately, I have a solid job to always fall back on. But like I said, I think the blue-collar lifestyle of a comedian, the potential of being that guy from a small North Carolina town that blew up, excites me more than anything. Now he's very excited about this.

I'm going to leave out why he's super excited about life on the road, as you guys can probably figure that one out on your own. Basically, I want to be a stand-up comic, but I'm afraid of failure

and feel my expectations may be too high. They are. Any advice you guys have that would be helpful for navigating this whole situation? Man managing expectations, mindset, pursuing this as a career? Okay. Well, first of all, I'm always going to tell anybody that is feeling these things to go for it. I just am. Unfortunately, there's also a real part of this where we all don't get

to live out our dreams, but it doesn't mean you can't try because I think never trying would be worse than failing. I really truly believe that. And as I know back to my early days, which started almost exactly 20 years ago now, and when I was still kind of leading up to it, bartending and doing all this different stuff and telling people about my dreams and my goals, there was almost no one that's supportive, okay?

There's almost no one that tells you to go for it. Almost no one believes in you. And I definitely think men are tougher with each other on this stuff than females are. There were certainly a couple of people in my family that believed in me. So that was very important. But at that point, I didn't really care. Like I wasn't going to listen to anybody because I do think this is another part of this where I would tell you older people that maybe have taken the nontraditional paths to success will tell you that when you're younger and you're telling people about some of your dreams and some of the stuff that you try to do. And again, like I had a John Morant monologue today. All right. That's not being a standup

comedy star. That's not being an actor, actress, writer, musician, like shit. That's really, really cool, man. Um, that stuff I'm, I'm constantly like, I will respect the hell out of you for even trying that stuff because I know how hard it can be for so many different people that are trying. So when I would get bad advice, I started to realize, and maybe I didn't even realize it in the moment. It was probably more as I got more perspective and had a few years into what I was doing. It was like, I was getting bad advice, not because the person thought it was a bad idea for me necessarily, even though the odds are kind of stacked against you, like we said in the very beginning of this whole thing. A lot of the bad advice and the pessimism that you get is because that person

didn't try and they don't want to see you succeed for trying something they never had the balls of trying in the first place. And that is an absolute fact of life. So once you get past that, you're like, well, why would I listen to this fucking person? Like, do they really care about me? Now, maybe the person that really cares about you, a sister, a brother, mother, father, maybe a really close relative,

maybe your best friend is just your guy. Maybe they're pessimistic because they know how hard it is and they don't want you to struggle and go through all those things. But I still think going through life

in the first third of your professional life, whatever that time frame is for you, it's not the same for everyone i knew that if i did kind of the normal things that i would have something gnawing at me forever and it was the same way why you know when i ended up leaving espn even though i wish i'd shut the fuck up about the writing thing um i knew there was just something gnawing at me there was like i have to try i have to to try to take this chance. Now, as far as how likely it is, you mentioned that the bar is set way too high for yourself.

Why not? Who cares? What do you want to do? Introduce yourself as a guy? I hope to be average. You know? I hope to get jokes off that people laugh at like 40% of the time. I mean, why not be hard on yourself? I mean, you already know

how hard this is going to be. And then you're going to have to kind of calculate your own level of discouragement. Like, do you get easily discouraged? Are you going to have a show? If you do stand up, nobody fucking laughs. Are you going to, I don't want to do this because it's going to happen. And it's not just about being funny, even though I don't really understand that much about it. But I think you start to realize the people that are really successful, it's the way they set it up, set it up, and then kind of pay it off. They learn the rhythm, the beats. They get their thousands of hours in.

They know exactly how to read a crowd. Their timing is incredible. And it's not just, hey, I talked to my therapist yesterday. You know what I mean? Like the people, and again, my taste will be different than your taste. The funny can be very subjective. But I mean, that's the hours that you're going to have to put in and the times you feel like it's going nowhere.

I mean, it's very rare is anyone that does any of these special things where they're just such a gifted person that they're so natural that immediately they're getting results. It just doesn't really happen. And so I'm telling you right now, much like anything that I've tried to pursue, I mean, the traditional stuff can be discouraging, Never mind the non-traditional stuff. But there are going to be moments where you want to quit all the time.

And that's the point. That's why it is so hard. That's why people were so pessimistic about it. That's why some people would discourage you throughout the process because you're going to have times.

I remember sitting in my car being broke, being like, fuck this. I'm watching all these games and I can fucking rub two 20s together. What's the point?

Then I'd be like, what are you going to do? Are you going to do something normal? He's not going to like that either. Might as well just do this stuff. So I'm going to leave you with a story on this because whoever's listening to this, you either don't get any of this and you think, hey, what's wrong with you guys?

Why can't you get out of your own head? Which, by the way, you might be right. But for the other people that feel like they have this creative thing and that's going on, it's inside and you just kind of know, right? You just kind of know and you either get past it or it just keeps growing and it's gnawing and there's just nothing you could do and you have to feed it and you have to figure it out, right? You got to get your answers to these thoughts that are in your head of like, can I actually do this? Because I think it's hard. I think it's hard to tell your friends, hey, I'm going to do these things because I saw it all firsthand. But one of my favorite stories, freshman year at UVM, I've told it to some already, so please forgive me for being

repetitive about it, but I just think it's an important story because I'll never forget it uh freshman year guy we're in school with love him to death great guy a lot of fun love to have a good time but when he got drunk all he wanted to do was do karaoke by himself at a dive bar that none of us ever wanted to go to and none of us could even get into but he had like the best idea out of everybody so he could get in his freshman year and he would come up and he'd be like, let's go do karaoke. I'd be like, I don't want to go with you ever to do that. Ever. It's never fun. It's never a good time. No one can

ever get in there. No one's in there that we'd ever want to talk to. He would just Irish could buy it and we'd be like, where is he? He'd be like, I don't know. I think he went to JP's again. We would be leaving our little place that we could get into and we'd be like where is he like i don't know i think he went to jp's again and we would be leaving our little place that we could get into and we'd be walking back up to campus another cold vermont winter night freezing our asses off with one guy in his yellow north face the other guy in his red one somebody in their black one and mountain jacket whatever vents on the side nbdD. Still have mine from 94.

Just can't throw it away. And we'd peek in the window, and there he'd be in his little yellow North Face singing Hank Williams. And we would just laugh. And at the end of the year, we had some end-of-the-year meeting, our fraternity, and he was like hey guys i loved it here but i gotta transfer to vanderbilt i gotta go to nashville music's in my heart i have to i have to pursue this and we were like we're like are you serious dude it was the least supportive group of any people ever assembled in one room and that guy's dirks mean, he transferred to Vandy. He's been nominated for

a bunch of Grammys. He sold millions and millions of records. He knew he had something inside of him that was driving him crazy that he needed to figure it out. And he did. And it's one of my favorite stories of my entire life. It's inspiring. And he just didn't give a shit. He just didn't give a shit. He looked at a room of like 40 to 50 guys between 18 and 22 years old that all laughed in his face. They just laughed at him. Not one guy was like,

awesome idea, dude. Great plan. But people didn't realize that he was also brilliant and he got into Vandy like that. They were like, no problem. And he just didn't give a shit because he knew no matter what that's what he was going to do he's like I'm going to do this

and whatever and it doesn't mean everybody's going to turn into the next big country star the next big comedian or even people that want to pursue sports but you'll kind of know you'll kind of know inside of yourself where you'll go this is driving me so crazy that i have to figure this out about myself or you'll just kind of get over it and go you know what i actually don't need all that shit because it isn't always a blast man it isn't but you know what there's a lot of other things things that are normal they're a lot easier to pursue that aren't always a blast too so So what would you rather do? I agree. And I think for like standups, oh, my bad, I was muted. And I think for like standups,

isn't it like you can't tour if this guy, you can't like be a road guy unless people, other stops down the road want you, right? So you basically have to do it at night and like, you know, wherever you can get up on stage, right? I mean, this is, the stakes are pretty low for this for a while until you're like, oh shit, it's actually going to start cutting into my, uh, you know, into my job. And I'm going to have to wonder if I can do my job. Like you're allowed to, you're allowed to do these steps because he's going to move, right? That's, that's, yeah. If you're going to be, if you're going to be in New York city, this is actually very easy to pull off. There's going to be a bunch of places that I'm sure you could probably just, you know, I don't think you're going to be outside of the comedy cellar next week.

All right. But just being around it, I would think would be inspiring. You know, sometimes when you have this idea of what you may want to do, at the very least, like being around it. You know, I remember I went to go like sit in and watch a radio station. And honestly, after I got done with that day, I was like, I don't want to do this. Okay. Um, but just being around it and then, you know, you're going to get up and nobody's going to laugh at you and you're going to either be motivated by the challenge or you're going to be so horrified. You never want to do it again, but at least you'll have answered some of those questions. And that's what I, I think is always really cool about this

stuff. I mean, I don't look, maybe we should have a comedian on and ask them about this, like the getting started and all that stuff. I'm sure there's horror stories. I'm sure there's parts of it that aren't a lot of fun. But I'm sure once you get past a certain point, you look back on it and you're like, you know, the iron sharpens iron stuff where you start to figure some stuff out. Maybe we'll pitch some jokes at Barkatsi again. Have him on. He loved that. That'd be great.

So well, the first time. Yeah. I actually have a cousin who is a stand up comedian comedian um in la and matt chimber uh he's he's he's good he's really funny grew up like small town connecticut like me he was always funny growing up and he he always i don't know if he ever like always wanted to do this but it's something that like kind of like it was an itch that he had and so he went to la um he's an architect like had a full-time architecture job like a good job but he would just do clubs on the side for a while for years was an itch that he had and so he went to la um he's an architect like had a full-time architecture job like a good job but he would just do clubs on the side for a while for years and honestly

twitter and really instagram like blowing up like he does like skit videos now which he's got a ton of followers and i think that probably helped him i mean like ryan you'll appreciate this like he's he's he's done shows and i think he's boys with like the chad goes deep guys so he's like in decent circles but it took him a while to get to that point and meet all these relationships. I mean, it's kind of like a... It's sort of a networking thing. You meet people on shows,

and now he does travel. He's not doing arenas or anything like that, but he's doing big stuff. He's been at the Laugh Factory in LA. And it was a very slow burn for him. And he was doing small stuff for free, stuff on social media, just to kind of get his name out there.

And I don't know if his goal is like to be a full time comedian. It might be. He's still an architect now, but like it is a grind and you have to basically know that going in. Like I remember in college when, you know, all these people like we were talking about journalism classes, right? People want to be on air. They want to be reporters. Right. And one of the things that one of my professors said, which I'm glad that they said, because it was like the most important thing was like, this isn't a glamorous thing at the start. Like you're going to make 25,

maybe even less grand a year for years trying to be like a local anchor in like Des Moines, Iowa or something. And that really like weeds out who really wants the job and who doesn't. A lot of people are just like, yeah, I'm just going to finish out my degree. I'm going to go into sales once I'm done.

But there were the few people that did stick out and, you know and pursue their dreams of being an on-air anchor. And I know people at major news networks now. So it just depends on what you're willing to put in and how the work you're willing to put in early on when it's probably going to be pretty shitty. And I know you know that. But just know that that grind is really, really hard. And it's not for everybody. Some people want to just have a life where they make some money quickly, they start a family, and everything is... It's just comfortable. And they're comfortable and there's really no risk taken. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But you have to know in your heart that you're willing to kind of take on those challenges and have there be hard times and grind for a while. And that's not for everybody. I think one of the most important things is knowing whether or not you're that person or not. And it's not binary either, right? It's not like either you quit your job.

It's not like all the comedy clubs are like, oh shit, Mark just quit his job. We got to get him in here next week. Like that's not, that's not how it works. So you can do both for, I mean, at least a foreseeable future until it's actually, it's actually a real conflict of, of work and, and comedy. So, and by the way, that's supposedly what you want, right? Like that's the good problem. That's the problem.

Like, Hey, this is starting to pick up so much. Now I have some, but to be in New York city, to have a job already and to have all of these opportunities, I'm not saying that like the highest profile places, but going to see other people, studying other people, and then trying your own stuff out and trying different spots here and there. And there's going to be an audience that maybe vibes with you. And there's going to be plenty that don't. And then you're gonna start learning about yourself. You know, that's, that's when like the growing up really happens. You start to go, oh, all right. Because I have always, Sruti was touching us a little bit before, I know the way I was programmed about what I wanted,

but I also know that when I would talk to people that weren't on the air that I became friendly with, let's say at ESPN, and I would kind would kind of go, you know, Hey, did you ever want to do something different and whatever? And they go, you know what, maybe when I was younger. And then I realized like what you do, I don't want to have to do that every day. I got to have something to say. If I have, if I'm in a terrible mood, who cares? The red lights on entertain us for three hours, all knowing the stress of maybe saying the wrong thing that day ends your fucking career you know you imagine like the days where i have something going on in my personal life and then it's like hey do you have a john moran open for us today

you know not that this is that hard but that's why that's why I don't look at myself versus somebody who decided to go in a different path. Like, I'll constantly go, maybe they were right. You know, I know it was right for me, but I'm not going to say that that person's wrong. Yeah, I remember doing that when I did the Daily Show with Scout, right? That that ended up not working out. Yeah, you were doing it every day. I didn't really actually like it as much as I thought I would. I'm glad that I tried it. It didn't work out. I didn't grow up like wanting to be an on-air person. But I was like, you know what, I should just scratch the itch, try it, figure it out. And I actually didn't really love doing a show five days. Maybe you'll find that out. Maybe you'll find out you don't really like doing like, but like, you don't know that until you try it so go for it and do your thing um but before we move on i actually got a question for you because i did you ever do karaoke with dirks bentley like i can't see you as a karaoke guy at all i could never get into that bar but i couldn't even see you doing karaoke once like i could

just see you being like no i'm right i don't do karaoke no i mean a couple cores lights in me i've been known to do some Johnny Cash. Johnny Cash? Okay. That was going to be my next question. When I was younger, I did it a couple of times. It's really heavy now. Real showstopper. Are you doing like Hurt by yourself? No.

We used to do this thing where my buddy would get a van and we would go to every weird dive bar we could find in the outskirts of Burlington. So we wouldn't go to any of our regular stuff. We'd go to all these other places that we would never, ever normally go to. And honestly,

it was one of the most fun things we ever did. And then we just, you know, we'd get banged up and we'd do karaoke and then we'd go in the next place or whatever. I mean, usually by the end of the night, people,

we get some real outskirts places where we're like, we're just going to get jumped here or what? But usually most of the guys we were with are pretty big, so it wasn't going to happen. Yeah, but no, there's a karaoke spot near me up here. I did go with somebody, and she absolutely showstopper. I'm not going to share who it was, but she just knocked out of the park. There's some guy who did like a 13-minute... I'm not even going to say

because it's sort of a signature move. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, I don't want to be sharing secrets, but there's a guy who did like a 13-minute Doors song. 13 minutes. Yeah, that's crazy. Honestly, he was incredible, but... Still crazy. Some people are just there for tacos, too.

All right. That was Life Advice. Hit us up. people are just there for tacos, too. All right. That was Life Advice. Hit us up. LifeAdvice. RR at gmail.com. Great pod today. Really fired up. Hope you enjoyed it.

Please subscribe. Ring or Spotify. Thanks to Kyle and Steve. Thank you.