The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Draft Day Stories: Part 1 With Julius Erving, Damien Woody, Trent Dilfer, and Danny Kanell. Plus, First-Round QBs Ranked With Chris Simms.

Episode Date: April 16, 2021

Russillo is joined by Chris Simms of NBC Sports to discuss the top QB prospects in the 2021 NFL draft, including Trevor Lawrence, Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, and Justin Fields (5:45). Then, in Part 1 of a three-part series, Ryen talks with Damien Woody, Danny Kanell, Trent Dilfer, and "Dr. J" Julius Erving about their draft experiences (45:00). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:20:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

so i went to an outcast concert at university of virginia after i got drafted and um so some people at uva caught wind i was there me and my like me and my guys from bc and so they invited us on stage when they were doing doing a concert and then we were hanging with them backstage and then off campus and um i was wasted just totally totally wasted and um and i was wasted the next day i had a severe hangover when i met with the baton but i'm i'm just to this day i'm just thinking to myself how did i not screw that up because i could have easily like screwed it up there's no way that mr krebs didn't know i like i reeked of alcohol you know when i did my press conference did anyone say you smell like a brewery or anything big cat was like we were standing on stage with with uh

with pete carroll and mr craffin and uh big cat's like dude you, you really partied last night. I'm like, yeah, I went a little overboard last night, but I'm here. Are you talking Big Cat, like the defensive lineman? No, I'm talking about – I'm calling Andy Cashmore Big Cat. Oh, you called – okay, all right, because I've lost track of all the Big Cats. So, Cashmore is telling you you're hungover. Yeah, think about that. Like, Andy Cashmore is telling me, like, dude, you are, like, wasted. Like, you you're hungover. Yeah, think about that. Andy Katzenboyer is telling me, dude, you are wasted.

You reek of alcohol. You're wasted. So, yeah, it was pretty bad. But, you know, that just comes with the territory, I guess. Today is a massive podcast. A lot of hard work has gone on to part one of three parts of Draft Day Stories. Today, we're going to talk draft with Chris Sims, but we're going to do draft stories with Sims, Damian Woody, Danny Cannell, Trent

Dilfer, and Dr. J. I'm excited about today, so I want to get right to it. We've got life advice at the end. We have our Draft Day Stories, as we mentioned. This is a new thing that we've been taping now for a while, but the first installment comes out today. So we're going to do real draft talk with Sims on all the quarterbacks because Chris Sims has been really good on this, and Cerruti pointed it out to me, so we'll share that with Sims and give him some credit because nobody likes giving anybody credit for doing something good, especially in the media.

But Woody's always a great storyteller, Danny, and then Dr. J as well because Dr. J had a really complicated deal there and prepare to be bummed out if you're a fan of a couple different NBA franchises. NBA 10 minutes or less. Lights late last night. Let's start the timer. The Celtics

have won again. They're in fifth place tied with Atlanta. Atlanta has the tiebreak right now. They're both 30 and 26. When Bill and I did the last Sunday pod, the last one that we did, we'll be doing a Sunday pod this Sunday. It was, hey, out of this group of these bottom East teams that are still in playoff contention, who do you think has the best chance to make any kind of noise? And I think we both begrudgingly said Boston strictly on talent,

even though we didn't really like the team all that much. They're six and seven. And so I'm hearing they've turned things around. Let's just run through that quick. The Lakers, who don't have any players, who despite not having any of their top two players and missing Dennis at times as well, they have a better record than you would think. But the Celtics winning that one,

you know, look, they beat the Lakers in LA. Great. They beat Portland in Portland. Portland can't defend what Boston does. Portland is not very good against good teams. They beat Denver in Denver. Denver was the better team for three, well, basically almost three quarters, and then had the worst stretch of their season in that game. The Celtics needed overtime and 50-something from Tatum to beat the Timberwolves. They beat the Knicks by two. They lost to the Sixers. They beat the Hornets with one of their first games without Hayward on top of Lomelo, and then they beat the Hornets with one of their first games without Hayward on top of LaMelo.

And then they beat the Rockets. Six of seven is really nice. It's great they're over 500. I do not think that they have figured it out yet. I think it is the opponent. I think when you need overtime and that kind of number from Tatum to beat the Timberwolves,

you still may have problems. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. How was that? Was that under 10 minutes? See, that's the thing is we never said it's going to be long. We just said it's 10 minutes or less. And that was definitely less than 10 minutes, even though it usually always goes over.

Yeah, if you keep it going for another 10 seconds, we'll be at two minutes. Yeah, we're not. We're done. I just wanted to share that because it was a very, very slow night in the NBA. We have so much other stuff going on. I just wanted to share that because it was a very, very slow night in the NBA. We have so much other stuff going on. I just want to throw that out there because I've had some.

I've listened to a few people talk about him just going like, yeah, you know, they're starting to put things together. The record is nice and that part is great. But I think sometimes it's the schedule and I'm just not ready to trust them. OK, there you go. Let's talk to Chris Sims. Chris Sims joins us on Button Podcast, Sunday Night Football, NBC, Pro Football Talk. He is, I don't know what the deal is.

You catch a lot of shit for your draft analysis. I don't, and then, you know, Saruti, my producer, was like, hey, did you see this? And you go through your record. You had Mahomes number one in 17. Is that correct that is correct yeah you had lamar first which i think is really impressive and you had rosen last um and

you had alan second right and i ended up actually even switching that and making alan one and i'll even say this is the last time too i made alan one and moved Lamar down the list a little bit. And I'll never make this mistake again. And moved him only because I had so many of my NFL friends questioning me to where I thought, wait, is there something wrong with this guy that I don't know? I don't get to meet this guy, these guys, all that, you know, so I wondered and I ended up pushing them down at the very end because i got such violent backlash from people in the nfl about it that i just went maybe there's more to this that i don't know but i'll never do that again and i'll never make that mistake yeah okay so kyler

won that one was a little bit easier but i don't want to make this sound like i'm taking credit away from you and then on top of everything else you had two a fourth so i gotta tell you that's an incredible track record for a position that i've now for years gone all the stuff that matters arm strength forget it size is nice not mandatory if you run first pass second yes it's still a problem but i think some of the physical things like if you're watching a basketball player it's not all physical stuff but you can see things where you go okay i think quarterback has been misleading forever and valuating the wrong things and it's still 50, 50 proposition with busts in the first round. You'll see guys, you know, five deep in a class and you're like, all right, two or three of these

guys are going to be in another team in a couple of years. And it seems ridiculous at the time. So let's get back to the roots of it for you. What is it that you're seeing? How do you do this? Because you've had a really good run here now. Thanks. Well, I, you know, I think the first thing is you're right. You can't just go on one thing, right? Like, oh, had a really good run here now thanks well i you know i think the first thing is you're right you can't just go on one thing right like oh he runs really good so he's definitely going to be a good quarterback or his arm is so powerful that definitely is going to just make him good at everything else no you got to take it all into account right i mean it's not just about one thing but i will say at the very base level, you know, first off, yeah, I look for pure talent, like elite skills, things like that. That's where I sat there with Mahomes.

And there's like back in that draft where I went, whoa, like some of these throws he making are like eye popping. Holy crap. Off his back foot, you know, 40 yard crossing route on the money, you know, leaning to the right 30 yard throw across the field. So those, I do look for that stuff off the bat. Then you start to go, all right, now can we fill in all the other things that are needed for the position? You know, is he a good decision maker? Is he accurate? You know, all the time, as far as consistent, the guys open, the guys open by two feet. Does he throw it in the right spot? All of that type of stuff. And then what I'm really big into Ryan too, is

yeah. One, I want to see the quarterback take advantage of all that's there to be had, right? All that's there to be had like, Hey, if there's a guy wide open down the middle for an 80 yard touchdown, I want to see an 80 yard touchdown. I don't want to see a 50 yard pass that was under thrown. And now the guy gets tackled at the 20 yard line and we have to settle for a field goal three yards, three plays later. Right. To me, those are things I look at, but I'll say the other thing that I was, I'm really big into too, is okay. Now when nothing is there, what are you going to do? Right. The protection's not great. Nobody's open. All right, now what?

And to me, that's where the great ones have, you know, separate themselves. That's why Rodgers is Rodgers and Josh Allen and Mahomes and all that. Because even when it's not great pass protection and nobody's open, you go, oh, well, look, there they go. They got out of the pocket. They manipulated the coverage. And the defense really won the play. But the quarterback was so great, he ended up throwing a 30-yard laser because of his ability and doing things like that too so making more of what's there to be had too is also big and

kind of how i evaluate these quarterbacks as well okay so instead of like looking at the top guys where you know rogers is going to keep plays alive brady's i think brady's mobility in the pocket is actually what set him apart from everyone you know because if you didn't really understand it i only understood because i saw it all the time i was like oh okay so i get it like there's there's a difference there because presence in the pocket like some of these kids are coming in with clean pockets the entire time the way the offensive lines are set up with these spreads and yet you know it's yeah there were there are other players that i'd be completely dismissive i remember the first time i saw chase daniel in

person with missouri's offense before everybody was kind of doing versions of what was going on and you see the spreads and you see him just shotgun one pad of the football and it's out it was like kind of one read to one side one route and i go to mcshay i remember we were there for texas missouri and I'm going, well, this shit isn't going to work. This is like backyard practice what they're doing. Now, granted, they're putting up a ton of points, but then we've seen guys come out of some of this stuff and be good pros.

So I'll admit, I don't think I've ever been more lost or confused in trying to figure out like, hey, that guy on Saturday is going to be really good on Sunday. Well, don't be, don't be, don't get caught up in stats and wins and losses. Right. You know, that's when I, no problem, no problem. Cause that's never been a, no, and it shouldn't be, you know, that's where people get lost as far as I think some of their bias and what they see, they look at the stats first and then they watch the film. And I go, I don't look at the stats at all. I just watch the film for what it is because the stats can lie to you in a lot of different ways. So, you know, I think that's like one thing I would say, and then don't get caught

up in wins and losses. You know, that's another thing too. You know, when I hear like an evaluator start off an evaluation with he's a winner, that's usually when I go, well, then there must be some other things missing in his game. Cause if that's what we're going to go with and you can't tell me something like tangible and physical that he does on the field that makes them special. This other stuff you're talking about, it's just a bunch of like team bull crap you've made up in your own mind. Like John Elway was four and seven his senior year, his last year in college. So was Patrick Mahomes. They were winners. They can't overcome everything else for their crappy teams they were on and that's the same with josh allen so you have to take into account too of like all right like to what you just said

what's the offense how many easy throws is it lending to him all the time you know what are they asking of him is it realistic to expect results? Are the receivers getting open? Are we seeing protection to think he can like overcome some of these issues with the team and all that? And I think that's at times where people will get like lost in that a little as well. And that's where you can get lost into like what you're talking about. Some of these quarterbacks on the dominant teams and everything just looks so easy. And it's like a highlight show you're watching

there um but it doesn't always necessarily translate to life in the nfl and life in the nfl going back to something you just said you know about brady and all that again yeah we love movement and the ability to extend plays but the final four quarterbacks in the nfl were all like guys that could stand in the pocket and dice you up if they needed to. Allen, Mahomes, Rogers, and Brady. And really three out of the four, yeah, they can get out of the pocket and do things like that. But either way, the name of the game is still in the pocket, making throws, you know, in tight pockets or sliding like you explained with Brady. Those are the guys that are continually successful year after year after year. And that's what I'm looking for more than anything at the quarterback position.

Okay, so I want to talk about this class, but I'd love for you to talk to us the way you talk to other guys that have played or the guys that are evaluating. Because when you say, I mean, you're absolutely right about the winning thing. It's kind of like my gold medal hall of fame thing with nba guys like if the second thing you're telling me he's an olympic gold medalist then it means his resume isn't that good and with tebow coming out it was immediately winner unquantifiable stuff i'm like well hey what about all the other stuff though okay and so i'm with you when you say that stuff so like we can

get into the trevor lawrence part of it where he feels like he's one of the cleanest prospects that we've seen. I've seen him in person. Andrew Luck is the last guy to go back to. I remember watching Luck in the comeback game against USC on the sideline. Right. If this guy isn't good, then I give up. Okay. Because he threw a huge pick.

He came back to the sideline. He was motherfucking himself and he couldn't wait to get back onto the field and take the game over again. And I went, okay, I'm not that I needed that moment, but it was just another moment to his deal. And with Trevor, if we start there, like, are there things we had, we had Dilferon was like, look, he's a little long. He's a little long with his throw. He was bringing up some stuff. So is he as clean a prospect as he's talked about? No, I don't think so. You know, listen, I got Zachson as the number one quarterback of the draft i think because of some of that but it's not an indictment on trevor lawrence you know that's where i do want to you know people love to hate on me or you know oh you're you're doing this

for clickbait or you're a shock jock like no i want to be right i don't give a damn about clicks or anything like that you know that trevor lawrence is certainly worthy of being the number one pick. There's a lot of positives about everything he brings to the table. You know, first off, his arm is elite. There's no doubt about that. Size is a skill. His size allows him to throw the ball

over the line of scrimmage, see things over the middle that some of the other quarterbacks can't. Just like you saw with Justin Herbert this past year. Doesn't matter. People around him, ah, it doesn't matter. I'm a big guy. Rawr!

There's a 40-yard rifle down the middle of the field. There's that. And then, of course, he's athletic as hell, too, for somebody his size. And then has all the things you talked about, you know, with a Tim Tebow. He's a good leader. He's played in a lot of big games and all of that stuff. But just like I'll say when I evaluated him, Ryan, yeah, I came away going, hey, he's awesome.

He's worthy of the number one pick. I got no doubt about that. But the film isn't as good as I remembered on TV. And there are, I think Trent Dilfer, what he says, yes, he can be a little long. He can be a little inconsistent with his mechanics altogether. And he can miss a few more throws than I think we realize. Like if I sat down with you and we watched film, I'd go, look, I mean, here's a slam dunk five yard out route. He should

hit it. He didn't hit that. Here's another play. He didn't hit, you know, but it gets lost in translation because then the next play, it's a draw play to Etienne and he runs for 30 yards. Or it's a screen pass to a receiver and he gets the first down. And I'm not trying to say there's not a lot of positives he does. I'm just saying it wasn't a slam dunk, consistent, all dropping throwing of the football that maybe I was quite expecting when I turned on the film that way. And that's why I made him my number two quarterback instead of my number one. But man, there's still a lot to like about his football

game. Okay. Why is Wilson number one? Wilson for like, you know, first off I see like Rogers in my homes. When I see Wilson, Wilson's arms, the best arm in the draft and in any capacity, really, you know, whether that's just pure power, like, Hey, I got to stand in the pocket and throw a 20 yard in cut. And I need to throw a laser and it's got to be on the money. Nobody does that better than Zach Wilson, let alone, he can do all that stuff on the move or with like no pocket at all. Oh, wait, people are around me. I can't really get my feet in the right spot. And just like a Mahomes or Rodgers

can just be like, whoa, and do it with his upper body and figure out how to still throw it accurately and with like a lot of power and pace. So I think that's the thing I look at. He was in a somewhat of a pro style offense, you know, going through reads and going through the offense itself.

I thought really him and Mac Jones led all of these guys as far as their ability to process and go through a lot of reads on the offensive side of the ball. And then the last thing is what we hit on earlier, Ryan. I mean, when nothing's there, nobody makes more happen than Zach Wilson. Nobody's open. I got to get out of the pocket. He is going to do something to manipulate coverage or make some great throw with his arm that is gonna make something happen and that's why i gave him the edge over trevor lawrence i don't know what to believe on the wilson part is i don't want to turn this into like the connor

cook wasn't a captain thing which which i thought was a legitimate deal i mean if you're not a captain and you're a quarterback on a team that's weird it's just actually right here to not be one i hear you just get it by default is there a quarterback on a team, that's weird. It's just actually easier to not be one by default. Is there anything going on with Zach's personality? Are we just talking about a younger kid? I mean, I think the thing is, is it comes down to this is like,

is he a dick or is he a quarterback? Because I would ask anybody that's like, Oh, this quarterback was like, have any of you guys gone to high school? The good quarterback in high school was just, he had to be a dick. I'm sure you were probably a dick.

I was not. No, I was not no i was not i was i was always a good guy that was willing to be like you know i would stand up to the bullies for bullying guys that you know couldn't do that that's the guy i was i think that's what a quarterback is i like hearing that i was just i was messing with you a little bit no i know but i think that there's a lot of people out there that that's their perception of a football player sometimes, right? It's like, oh, he was a bully meathead. No, I would say that was for Johnny Tryhard, high school guy. The NFL pro players are not like that. They were confident in their strength and their manhood and all that. They didn't need to bully like,

you know, some science geek or math major or something like that. But no, I mean, listen, I understand. I don't pay attention to a whole lot of the off the field stuff. I don't get a chance to meet these guys. I know a little bit about all of them. And, you know, listen, with Zach Wilson, I've heard enough from people I trust that the guy's just, he's all in on football, whether that's driving, you know, eight or 10 hours every weekend to go work with John Beck and do all that. Hey, I've heard like, hey, he's from a rich family. Okay. So he's a rich kid. Well, I don't know. I was rich. I worked hard. Peyton Manning and Eli Manning were rich. There's a lot of other

guys out there that I could go through and go, they grew up nice. It didn't take away their edge of wanting to be great. And don't forget too, the other aspect is, yeah, I wanted to keep my great life going. So I saw my dad and what he did. And I was like, I want to be able to buy the things I want to buy when I get up or get older. If I got to work hard at football to do that, fine. So be it. So no. And then also, Ryan, I'm sorry for the long answer.

Like with BYU, it is a little bit of a different school. You know, you got like guys there that are 25, 26 years old, you know, 27 at times because of the way that school is laid out. So I don't make too much of it. I can tell on film, his team thinks he's special when he makes great throws or makes great plays you see offensive linemen or the sideline like pointing at him and doing stuff like you're the man how did you do that and that's kind of what i go off of so i guess i'm not worried about all the other stuff is what i'm saying and i hope you know i probably should have said this at the top i'm not bringing it up as if it's this major concern i just feel like, like, and then no one follows through with

it. You know what I mean? And I know you're more open about stuff. We're all, you're like, oh, you know, and you just go, okay, well then you can't do that to a kid. Like say, say what's on your mind. But the rich family thing I've heard a couple of times, and it's just, it's just so funny what would be used against you until it doesn't work as a critique, because then no one ever brings it up again. And you're like, no, you're just, it's something that sounds good in the evaluation of like, Oh, you know, like Josh Rosen is Josh Rosen, not a pro quarterback because he came from a great family or did it just not work out for Josh Rosen? So a lot of that stuff becomes, at least in this case, it's not after the fact, but prior to the fact. So I think it's a lot like Baker. If you didn't like Baker,

you weren't going to like Baker. You probably didn't watch as much Zach Wilson for those listening to this, but if you went into it not wanting to like him, then maybe some of it would turn you off. You're right about the teammate thing because Baker's teammates loved him. Baker's teammates still love him. That's way more important than what any talking head is going to say.

To your point, I just want one more thing too, where this is where I don't get the draft process. With BYU and Zach Wilson, it's about, to your point, I just want one more thing, too, where this is where I don't get the draft process, right? Like with BYU and Zach Wilson, it's about, oh, wait, always the negative I hear with him is like, you know, the competition. It's not that great. All right. That's the one side you get. But you never ever hear the other side of the story where I go, well, yeah, but the quarterback for Ohio State, Alabama, and Clemson got to go on the field and were always clearly the best team on the field.

And always knew that there was room for error because of that. And then the other thing too, that just drives me crazy. It drives me crazy because like what you're saying, it's like, we'll use it against one guy. Oh, the competition's not great. But then I don't hear that conversation at all with Trey Lance up in North Dakota state. Like that's not a point with him. And not that I don't care about either one. I just hate in the media right now how it's like, we're going to use this as a negative for this guy, even though it's also for this guy. But we don't want to bring that up. So we're only going to bring it up for the one guy.

And that drives me crazy. But now, you know, to get back to your point. You know, I'm actually going to interrupt you, though, because I'm glad you you did this, because when you were talking, Josh Allen i didn't think josh was great the first couple years in buffalo all right and then this past year we're talking mvp maybe you saw different things and you thought it would lead to this the credit to you i did not see the turnaround but my favorite josh allen video of anything that i watched was the iowa game when they got their asses handed to him because he was so competitive in trying to make, he, they had no chance in that game and he played his ass off

and the numbers are horrible. Right. And I was like, okay, now I kind of get it. So you're right. So then where are you now with the rest of your rankings with Mack Fields and then Lance? Well, you know, I got Mack Jones as number three. And listen, I didn't expect to. But like Mack Jones is incredibly accurate. He's great in the pocket. His arm is plenty good. Yeah, it's not elite powerful, but it's every bit as good as Joe Burrows was last year.

And I think it's the best I've seen for his diagnosing defenses and being able to read it and react as quick as anybody has ever seen other than Joe Burroughs. That's Mac Jones, let alone, Hey, listen, I know he's not an elite athlete, but going back to like what you said, I could sit here and argue in the pocket itself. he might be the best i think zach wilson's the best but mac jones is right there as far as those brady type movement and hopping around and just subtle moves to slide step and still stay in a throwing position and put the ball on the money so mac jones is my number three kellen mond is my four and i don't understand that shocks me I know I well Kellen Bond has it all that when I look at Kellen Bond I go elite arm he played on a lesser team in the SEC week in and week out he played

NFL football for the last three years and what I mean that was he had to throw the ball into really tight windows and had bad pass protection in like every game. And he threw the ball with great accuracy. He can really make any throw. It's a quick release. That's very powerful. And he's a great athlete. He really is. So that's why I looked at him and I just went like his film compared to Tua or Daniel Jones. Like I'm taking Kellen Mond all day, every day, and twice on Sunday. But there's the hype's not there for him. I don't know why. He might sneak into the late first,

but I think he's probably going to be a top of the second round type of quarterback. And then I got Fields and Lance. All right, let's stay with Mond. Let's stay with Mond because if Mond ends up being better, then I am going to be surprised because I've watched probably all of those A&M games. Right. And it was, I think, straight up ugly in the beginning of his career. Sure.

And then this year, it started turning around. But I always felt like it was just he would go missing for a quarter. You know, there would be stretches where you're like, okay, now you're back to the guy that I don't really trust. I don't really trust. I said, and did, I don't know, was it with you where he said, I was always kind of thinking and I was, I was always like, he played like a quarterback that was constantly worried about what they were going to say to him when he went back to the sideline. So I would say, okay, all right. Okay, fine. But does that mean you're going to get to the NFL and be more relaxed?

Like that doesn't seem to make any sense to me. I thought he was too inconsistent. I thought he was too inconsistent his entire career, even though he was better this last year. Yeah, no, I mean, you know, really this last year, you know, and again, I'm big into it where I'm not going to go too far back. And it like, I'm not, there's a big difference between when you're 18 and 21, right? I mean, it's a lot of growing mentally, physically, everything you do there too. And hey a little context too you know he took over a position you know at texas a&m with a coach that coached you know jamis winston right so turnovers are an issue and he started off his career throwing some interceptions and got death threats so i'm sure that didn't help things either that way. But regardless, I hear those concerns.

But also, like, this year, I mean, it was phenomenal play. It really was. And, yeah, like, this is to where, you know, I'll say, like, those moments you say he disappears or do that, you know, those kind of things. Well, like, I think if you and I sat down together and we watched him, I went, okay, yeah, I know he's kind of things well like i think if you and i sat down together and we watched him i went okay yeah i know he's kind of disappeared but here's three series in a row where i want to go like what do you want them to do here the pass protections broke down so quickly there's nobody open there's

no space there's nothing to throw and that's where i get into like you got to be realistic a little sometimes in the evaluation process to go, yeah, I want more there. I do. But is it realistic to really expect it here? It's kind of a no-win situation. I think there was a lot of that at Texas A&M. And I think, again, he was on a lesser team in the SEC a lot. But as far as a lead ability, man, I see it.

I really do. And I'm a big fan. I know I'm alone in that one. And I don't know you want me to go to the next ones no you might look you might be right obviously we know we know how there's going to be a guy drafted later in this that is better than the top guys that we're talking about i mean it's just the way it works prescott to me and that's where i always self evaluate or i i saw i call it self scout. Because I'm still pissed that I didn't have Dak Prescott up in the first round conversation.

And what really happened is I got lost in some of the bullshit. It was what all the losses and some of the games weren't that pretty. Yeah, because he's at Mississippi State playing teams that were way better than him. So some of the games don't look good. And I didn't just take it for what it is about the player a little bit and go, wait, big, strong, moves well, really never loses control. The football has big power in his arm. And the things I was docking him for at the time were really not Dak Prescott problems. They were Mississippi State problems. And that's where I'm saying that the Kellen Mann one and I'm going out on a limb on that one a little bit, as we say.

So we'll see. I'd push back a little. I mean, the team almost made the playoff. So it wasn't like we're talking about Vanderbilt here. Yeah, yeah. I hear you. I hear you. You're right.

It was good. But where I would tell you, too, it was really good. And they don't beat Florida and teams like that unless they got a guy like Kellen Mann, who made so many big throws in some of those games to where I go there's just not a lot of guys in college football that could have done and made like made it happen the way he did that way so you know we'll see he's got some stiffness to his game I wish he would play backyard football and scramble he's very stiff great he's very stiff but to me those are easier issues

to fix than what i look at for some of the issues with trey lance and justin fields okay so then let's finish with those two guys then sure yeah i mean so leia uh justin you know justin fields is the guy i got as five and really like i would say Ryan, I'd probably, if I had to re-rank him right now, that'd probably be the one I'd switch. I'd probably make Trey Lance five and Justin Fields six. But Fields, listen, powerful arm. I get it. It's elite as far as the pure power of the aspect of the arm. He's an elite athlete. There's no doubt about that too. You know, so there's two elite traits to that, that game that he's got there. There's no doubt, but now we get into the throwing, the decision-making, the pocket presence, all of that.

I thought really, he was probably the worst in the pocket out of all the quarterbacks. When I just came to throw in the ball, he needs the most space out of all the quarterbacks when it just came to throwing the ball. He needs the most space out of all the quarterbacks. He has some true mechanical flaws that I just don't trust that you can fix. And I've seen them in both private, you know, both pro day workouts come out again. You know, he's very much of an elbow thrower. He does this every time. You'll see. And that leads to erratic throws and moments in the game where you just go, that's got to be slam dunk.

Like that's a touchdown on a five yard shallow cross route that we didn't even complete. Not let alone we we completed and didn't get the touchdown. We're not even like the receiver can't touch the ball. There's just way too many throws and decisions like that and then with the mechanical flaws and also he lets his feet get together and then like pushes off a mound at times like he's a baseball pitcher that stuff scares me and i don't know if that is fixable so that that's where i question justin fields a little bit okay um do you have any I mean, I guess we just finished with Lance, so we'll get to your draft story. Yeah. Trey Lance, I mean,

really more consistent of a thrower than Justin Fields. You know, got a really powerful arm, you know, and does have good feet. There's no doubt about that. I think there is a lack of clubs in the bag is the first thing I'll say, as far as every ball is just a rifle throw. There's not a lot of touch throws. He doesn't throw a great deep ball. Some of those things are an issue for him. So I think that's one thing I look at. He has a little bit of a, he likes to swing his shoulder and then throw the ball and

do that. That's great. But what I get worried about with that and where I see it come up on film a little bit is he'll, all right, swing the shoulder. I think I'm going to throw there. Now he's got to get to the third read over the middle of the field. We don't have time to swing the shoulder and throw it again. Like that, that's one thing that bothers me about Trey Lance. There's a lot to like the way he runs all of that stuff too, but he was on a dominant team that he got to make a lot of just one read type of throws. And my biggest thing, Ryan, with him is like, it's a position we talk about all the time that you got to play and got to get reps at. And they barely threw the ball. He's barely ever had to play quarterback in a tight situation late in the game

and have to drive his team down the field to throw the ball or do any of that. And to me, that scares me too. So that's why I got them towards the bottom of the list. They're tough evals. They really are. I might be wrong. We'll see. But I see the elite levels, but I just got questions too

that don't add up to elite for me right now as far as when we talk about the draft Chris you actually get to be the first of this three-part series that we're doing here about 15 interviews for guys but since we have you I think we'll start it this way everybody knows the the Texas story which you could probably do an hour on anyway. You come out, you still end up going last pick in the third round. So 97th overall in 2003 to Tampa. So give me the best story in that process, the lead up, something you've shared with only intimate friends to kind of give us an understanding of what that deal was like for you.

Sure, sure. I mean, so my junior year, all right, just to give it a little bit of like back history, um to kind of give us an understanding of what that deal was like for you sure sure i mean so my junior year all right just to give it a little bit of like back history i was being told by teams in the nfl and everything like hey you know you you might be one of the first quarterbacks off the board my junior year at the end of that year i was like getting like like my dad and you know my gonna be agent and all that. We're starting to go like, Hey, we might have to think about if you want to come out or do any of that. I went on to the big 12 championship game and through three interceptions

and that was swash. And that was over. We lost the game because of me. All right. No doubt about it. So there I went from being like, Hey, you might be the first quarterback off the board to, Hey, you're going back to college. All right, I go back to college. My senior year is good. We lose to Oklahoma again. I get the label like, can't win the big game. That's all I ever hear.

Chris Sims can't win the big game. He's a choke artist, all that type of stuff. So yeah, we get to the draft process. I'm in the year with Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman, Kyle Bowler, right? It's that group of guys. Pretty good quarterback class for the time. It's all like these potential first round quarterbacks. I'm just hoping I can be one of them, you know?

And I know that there's those questions about me out there and all that. So I get to the draft process and I'm really thinking I meet with the Raiders who had the last two picks of the first round that year. I go out there to visit them, Al Davis and everything. And Al Davis, he pretty much tells me, hey, if you're on the board to pick 31 and 32, there's a good chance we're going to take you. And I'm thinking, man, this this is awesome i'd love to go to the raiders with al davis and all this and you know there's of course the ravens who need a quarterback the bears i'm thinking man one of them's gonna take me in the first round well now we get to the draft it's the night before the draft and i come home from a little dinner with like two of my friends and my mom was waiting for me in the kitchen.

All right. And I could tell she's like, she's got to tell me something. She's a little disappointed. And she kind of looks at me and she's like, oh, you know, you know, me and dad, we talk. You might slide in the draft. We're hearing you might slide in the draft. And I'm like, oh, whatever. I don't even care. I'm just brushing off. Like, we'll see tomorrow. I don't believe it. Whatever. So I have the draft day at my house.

I got a bunch of friends that come over. And I'm thinking, this is going to be a great day. Well, we get to pick 31. I haven't gone. I'm pissed. I'm going, what? Kyle Bowler before me? What?

Are you kidding me? He threw more interceptions than touchdowns in college. Like, what? Just because he threw the interceptions than touchdowns in college like what just because he threw the ball through the goal post on his knee he got drafted i'm pissed rex grossman same thing i'm sitting there like rex grossman i'm better than him and i'm and no disrespect to these guys now i'm just giving you my honest no i'm sure i'm sure bowler loves that evaluation right yeah sure i love actually k Bowler. We became very good friends through the process. But so I'm just now it's Al Davis and the Raiders come up.

They draft a pass rusher from Colorado, Anande Asamoah. And I'm like, oh, no. Okay, what the hell is going to happen? I weighed a few picks in the second round. I can tell my agent's got nothing going. No one's calling nothing. I go, all right, I'm done. I weighed a few picks in the second round. I could tell my agents got nothing going. No one's calling nothing. I go, all right, I'm done. I'm going upstairs. Leave me alone. I go into my room and just put the TV on there. I don't want to be bothered. I tell my friends leave. It's over the hell with it. I don't know what's going to happen. I don't want you guys to sit here all day.

And of course, that was when they did the first three rounds of the draft on the first day. day. And of course, that was when they did the first three rounds of the draft on the first day. So I sat there all day. And then all of a sudden, the phone rang. And old Chucky was on there. Hey, man, this is John Gruden. What you doing, man? I'm proud to let you know you're going to be a Tampa Bay Bucs. And I'm pissed. I'm like, oh, man, that's great to hear, coach. I'm pissed, but that's great to hear. Thanks, all that. All right, man, that's great to hear, coach. I'm pissed, but that's great to hear. Thanks, all that. All right, man, just get ready to work when you come down here, okay, man? So that's my draft day story.

It's a little bittersweet. Like it was a dream come true to play in the NFL, but it wasn't quite what I was expecting leading up to it and certainly pissed me off a little bit. Did the Dave Ragone pick just send you through a wall? Through the fucking wall. Like, you know, through the wall, right? And, you know, it's one of those things where you're like,

what? What the hell happened here? So, yes, I got stuck there in Tampa Bay, which was a great experience because, of course, they had just won the Super Bowl. I got to learn from John Gruden and really by my second year had a chance to be the starter and was the starter a few games into my second season. And I hurt my shoulder. And then, you know, my third year I got to take over and we made a little playoff run. At the end, was it did you know it was over?

Were you just trying to did you want to stay and just get a check as long as you could? Or, cause I know that you were back with Tennessee and then they cut you and they brought you back in again. I'm just, well, some guys are like, look, I'll leave when I'm absolutely told I can't play. Or were you just over it? No, I was like, I was dying to play my first year at a football. I mean, I cried like every Sunday.

I mean, I'm not even lying. I cried at my house. I was in Nashville, Tennessee. I would sit there and be like, I can't believe this guy's in the NFL. And I'm not even, this guy's starting and I'm not even in the NFL. I mean, just a lot of that stuff. Right. Um, but I, you know, my spleen injury, it was such a hard, like fight to get back and get back healthy and all of that. So I finally got back. I just never got that opportunity to really prove to everybody that I was back and close to being what I was going to be.

And that's became my perception, is that he's not the same guy as he was before the injury. And that last year, I stayed ready in 2011. But I always told myself, I was not going to be one of these guys that was just going to sit around and wait forever and let it totally dictate my life. So I stayed ready in 2011. But I started making calls to teams about my next step in life, about being a coach. And that's where I started to reach out to Belichick in New England. And when I didn't get signed in 2011 after that year i got the job with the patriots and worked for them in 2012 one last follow-up then because you did work for the patriots on some of the basically just draft prep the entire time right right what's bill's process like and and why

hasn't it been working that well lately right like i don't know bill's total process right bill is not gonna he wasn't worried about me low-level scout and telling me his process nor was he gonna let me in the room that had all like the big time information i mean and it's been a decade almost too to be fair to bill here so you know well yes well right right and like hey maybe it's an awful question it might be a horrible question so i know no it's a great question it really is and it's new england i mean listen only there's only like three people up in that organization that really know what's going on like in all facets because bill's not going to share it with everybody you know not everybody knows what bill's thinking i mean their draft room r, it's literally like he would go in there and look around

and have his key and unlock the door. And then a big metal garage door came up over the draft board. So you never even got to see that type of stuff. But to just answer the question directly there, I mean, listen, no stone goes unturned up in New England. Nothing. They're the most detailed, hardworking organization in all of the NFL.

And where I think they mess up a little bit as far as the draft is concerned, I think they value smarts just a hair too much. That's where I would say would be my negative. You know, where it's like, hey, we watched 100 plays on this guy. Yeah. This one guy who's an awesome player. He did have two mental mistakes. This guy over here is a real good player, but had no mental mistakes.

And I want, and you know, they favor the guy that made the no mistakes where I want to go. Yeah. But he left like 20 plays on the field that should have been touchdowns. And this guy over here, yeah, he had the two mistakes, but man, he made like 20 other plays that the other guy couldn't make for long touchdown runs or whatever. That would be my assessment on why they miss on some guys at times. Check out the Unbuttoned podcast with Chris Sims. You see him again on NBC and all of their coverage. And thanks a lot, man. It was fun to kind of sit down and talk with you about this.

So I appreciate it. Always, always good talking to you, man. Enjoy you, man. And thanks, Ryan. Thanks for having me, buddy. With the 17th pick, the New England Patriots have selected Damian Woody, center Boston College. So Mel, in short, the Patriots have a Woody.

That is one of the all-time underrated Berman quotes on the draft set. Damian Woody joins us now. Three teams, New England originally, Detroit, and the Jets over 12 years. Damian, I remember that pick well now, yeah, over 20 years ago. That was a Bobby Greer selection, right? That's correct. That's correct. BG is what we used to call him.

That's right, because it was you and, was it you and Katzenmoyer? Yeah. Katzenmoyer went 28thyer went 28 yeah yeah me and big cat i i'm ashamed to say more of my buddies bought cats and moyer jerseys than damian woody jerseys because they were so excited yeah nobody like who the hell is damian woody like nobody knew that like a center from boston college yeah so i can understand that well it worked out and and our man was uh was an incredible offensive lineman could basically play every single position up there what's your favorite story from the the pre-draft the draft whatever it is take us through it yeah man i was i was i'm gonna go with um my pre-draft visit my last one was with the pats um i came with kevin falk who we act we you know we were teammates we got drafted the same year and um and so i'm sitting

i'm i'm meeting with dante scarnecchia um in my opinion it's hall of fame offensive line coach and i'm sitting there he pops on the tape of the game I had against Syracuse. Now, in my mind, I'm thinking, oh man, we're going to watch some games. I'm going to watch a game against Notre Dame, you know, games I just bought. Man, he popped on that Syracuse game, and I'm like, damn, like that was by far my worst game of my collegiate career. That was by far my worst game of my collegiate career. And we sat there for like almost four hours and watched every single play. And he just critiqued it and asked me, well, what did you do on this play?

Well, what did you do on this play? And I felt so shitty watching that game. And after that visit, I'm like, there's no way I'm going to the Patriots. After that, watching that game, no way I'm going to the Patriots. Fast forward, lo and behold, Patriots trade up with the Seattle Seahawks, and I ended up getting drafted. And then when I went back to Boston for my introductory press conference, Dante told me, he said, I just want to see how you will react. See if you are coachable. You pass with flying colors. Yeah, Skarnecchi is the best. What is it about him? What is it about him that makes him so good at this job?

Well, first of all, he's like this really short Italian guy that he just barks and cusses at you like like crazy. But he just he's relentless on the details he doesn't let anything slide your footwork could be off by a little bit he's pouncing on your hands could be off he's pouncing on it and that's really what great teachers do like great all the great coaches i've ever been around they're sticklers on the details and dante was probably you know probably number one as far as coaches i've been around being on the details, man. And that really set the foundation for the rest of my career. Was there anywhere else you thought you were going to go or that you wanted?

I bet you didn't even want to play in New England. Like, I'm just like New England. Like, I'm thinking, I was thinking like Baltimore. I was thinking Baltimore or the Chargers. And then I got hit with New England. I'm like, okay, New England. I didn't see that one coming, but all right, let's get up and go. But another thing was I was partying with OutKast my draft night i got drafted party with outcasts wait how did

that happen you let i mean we're burying the lead here yeah so i went to an outcast concert at university of virginia after i got drafted and um so some people at uva caught wind i was there me and my like me and my guys from BC. And so they invited us on stage when they were doing a concert. And then we were hanging with them backstage and then off campus. And I was wasted, just totally, totally wasted. And I was wasted the next day. I had a severe hangover when I met with the Patriots. But to this day, I'm just thinking to myself,

how did I not screw that up? Because I could have easily screwed it up. There's no way that Mr. Kraft didn't know. I reeked of alcohol when I did my press conference. Did anyone say you smelled like a fucking brewery? Yeah, Big Cat. Big Cat was like, we were standing on stage with Pete Carroll and Mr. Kraft. fucking brewery or anything? Big Cat was like, we were standing on stage with Pete Carroll

and Mr. Craft and Big Cat was like, dude, you really partied last night. I'm like, yeah, I went a little overboard last night, but I'm here. Are you talking Big Cat like the defensive lineman? No, I'm talking about, I'm

calling Andy Katzenbauer Big Cat. Oh, you called, okay,, like, I've called Andy Cashmore a big cat. Oh, you called, okay, all right, because I've lost track of all the big cats. So, Cashmore is telling you, you're hungover. Yeah, think about that. Like, Andy Cashmore is telling me, like, dude, you are, like, wasted. Like, you reek of alcohol. You're wasted. So, yeah, it was pretty bad.

But, you know, that just comes with the territory, I guess. Did I ask you about this Katzenmoyer story that at the end of the year, he threw a party, but he didn't tell anyone where it was, so he rented out a place and it was by himself because he forgot to tell everyone? No. What was that? You didn't tell me that.

You didn't tell me this one. There's some story, because I remember my buddies in Boston, because we had graduated, but I was still in Vermont. So you're a couple years younger behind me, but I remember this story. And I don't even know if it's true, so I'm not claiming that it's true, but the Katzenmoyer had rented out an Abe and Louie's for an end-of-the-season party, but he fucking forgot to tell everyone.

So he showed up. I was like, no one showed up. And they were like, well, because no one knew. You know what? I don't know if it's true or not. I don't know if it's true, but I wouldn't dispute it one bit because that sounds like some miscats of what he would do. Anyone who knows Andy, like, yeah, I could see that happening.

Just think of all the Ohio State fans that have lightning bolt tattoos around their biceps that are 40 right now going, eh, it's a cat's eye. All right, Woody, you're the man. Thank you. Yeah, no problem, man. before danny cannell was my espn radio co-host he was the 30th pick in the fourth round of the 1996 draft by the new york giants he was acc player of the year florida state he knew he wasn't going to be a first rounder but he definitely thought he was going somewhere

and he didn't go there all right danny let's start with this give me your best draft day story it was better when you introduced me as the 130th pick because then it doesn't sound like almost in the fifth round canal i guess i know i forgot that 130 does sound better it does um so my draft experience was completely different than most of the stories that you hear because most of them are these feel-good stories where, you know, hey, when is your name called? You get to go up and hug the commissioner, and you're there with your family or at your draft party. So mine was completely different. So I had been hearing all kind of different projections and was trying to block them out, but it's literally impossible to do that because you get excited. You're like, hey, I could be potentially a second-round pick I, that's probably the highest I heard. I knew I wasn't going to be a

first round pick, but even in the back of your mind, you're kind of like maybe, maybe last couple picks. I'll sneak in there as a project, but like second round was starting to hear that third round. So I kind of thought I was going to be a second or a third round pick. Um, that was the expectation. So at the time it's Saturday, it's not not thursday prime time it's not friday it's saturday is the first round and it starts at noon i believe was what time it started so i had this expectation so i'm like you know what i'm gonna enjoy myself i'm gonna go out and golf with my brother-in-law's and a buddy of mine so we're gonna go play some golf i did have the uh the flip phone the old school flip phone cell phone, just in case there was that

call in the first round or some team had to inquire about something, what my availability was. So I brought it with me, went out and played golf, got home about 1230. It's probably on round, probably about pick 15 or so in the first round and no phone ring. My dad's watching the draft, nothing's happened. So then I get like, okay, let's get comfortable. Let's see what happens. And at the time, it was rounds one through three that are all on Saturday. And then four through seven are on Sunday.

So getting comfortable, you know, coming back, have some lunch, watching the draft unfold, pretty entertaining. You're seeing all these players go. And then second round starts coming along. And I felt like I was one of the top quarterbacks in the draft. Like it wasn't, and trust me, that is not a cocky statement. There wasn't that many good quarterbacks in that draft.

It's documented as one of the worst quarterback talented drafts in the history. So Tony Banks gets taken. I'm like, all right. Like I hadn't really heard a lot about him, but he gets drafted. And I'm like, okay, fair enough. Then there gets to be some other quarterbacks that start getting taken. And more importantly, they're going to teams

that I thought I had a chance to go to. So Denver Broncos would have been perfect for me. Would have loved to gone and backed up John Elway for a couple of years, watch him right off on the sunset. Perfect spot. They draft Jeff Lewis. I'm like, who?

Like I literally had no idea who Jeff Lewis was. Played at Northern Arizona. And I was like, I have no idea who this guy is. So I was like, well, that's kind of a bummer. Miami Dolphins come up. And Miami Dolphins, now my dad worked for them at the time. He was their orthopedic surgeon, their team doctor. And so I was kind of excited about that opportunity. They did bring me in for an official, and so I was kind of excited about that opportunity they did bring me in for an official you know come to the facility they put me up at a hotel you meet the coaching staff so they had expressed more interest than a lot of teams so I was like man maybe there's a chance another team back up Dan Marino that would be incredible so they're starting to they're picking defensive players they're picking other you know needs that they've got um other drafts start to

come through i'm pretty sure you might have it there i think bobby hoyne gets taken in front of me uh from ohio state we had played in the senior bowl together so i knew him pretty well and i was like man i think i'm better than him but you never know i'm like all right that's fair he gets drafted from the philadelphia eagles so i'm like all right and so it's starting to get third round you know and i'm thinking okay are we gonna go and it's starting to get third round, you know, and I'm thinking, okay, are we going to go? And it's getting later in the day on Saturday. And basically, you're sitting in, by the way, just, just to jump in, you're sitting watching

all of it. Cause you like, yes, the ego of the athlete is like, maybe something weird happens. I go in the first, okay. But you're, you're right. I mean, it's an atrocious, atrocious class. Banks goes 42nd overall. Hoyne goes in the third round of the Eagles. Jeff Lewis goes 30 picks in front of you Hoyne goes in the third round of the eagles Jeff Lewis

goes 30 picks in front of you to Denver still a fourth round pick the guys after you Spence Fisher Mike Cawley John Stark Kyle Watchholtz none of them even playing games um it's it like I kind of forgot but 96 like it was almost like if you didn't have a QB in the draft god your evaluation, no offense, it must have been even worse than we had imagined because just by the lack of depth, you would have thought you would have gone higher. You're watching every day going, what is going on?

When did you first start getting mad? Third round. And it was probably the Jeff Lewis pick. That was the one, again, where I was like, I don't know who this guy is. I had never seen him play. And it's just, at the time, you didn't get so many games of college football you didn't have so much coverage you didn't get that you know the consistent 24-7 coverage where you just saw everybody so I

didn't know who he was I'm like all right that's kind of annoying I'm like calling my agent having some contact with him and more importantly it was who he went to because I was like that's a team that I thought I had a chance to go to to be the heir apparent to john elway and i didn't want to play right away like i knew i know i know i tell people all the time you're the only pro athlete i've ever met that never wanted to play but it wasn't it wasn't not not not wanted to play i didn't want to play right away like i knew i wasn't ready i'd only played two years of college and only played two years of high school you were so jealous of Garoppolo. You were like, why would he leave?

He could just stay there another five years. It's still Chase Daniel. Like that one still bothers me the most, more than anybody, is Chase Daniel's career because he still hasn't played. He's still getting paid. And he never played. High ceiling. No idea.

Great guy. Great locker room guy. So then it's like calling my agent, like, hey, are you hearing anything? And he's like, no, but just be patient. You know, it'll happen. And so basically the whole, yeah, exactly. So then the whole, the whole round ends. And, you know, my family was there.

My dad was there. My sisters were there. My brother-in-law's maybe. Did you have a girlfriend at the time? I did. I did. Were you thinking if you had gone in the second round, you were going to break up with her immediately? Did you know?

No, I did not know. This was my eventual fiance, eventual fiance but then we called this was that's a whole nother story that's the one you bailed on yeah yeah exactly bailed on before the wedding five days before good stuff um but she was there it's like you brought her in for a visit and didn't drag her yes exactly so essentially it goes and it was a little bit of a moment of shock like it hits you when the round closes and it's like, all right, you know, Berman's up there. We'll see you tomorrow back here to go at fourth round. And I literally started to get a little bit nervous. Like maybe I don't get an opportunity. Maybe I don't play in the NFL.

Literally. I swear to you, I had that conversation with my dad and my dad, who's been my biggest supporter, most optimistic person ever. He's like, well, screw the NFL. They don't deserve you. You know, you can go play baseball. You literally, he was like, yeah, I mean literally, but that was like, that was on the table was maybe you can try baseball if it doesn't work out. That was the mindset going to sleep. Like maybe I don't ever play in the NFL again. I was down. I was bummed. Jeff Lewis, again, never heard of him. So go to bed. And then my agent, again, he's like, be patient. He's like, I'm sure, you know, some teams will start expressing interest. And then I'm watching

the fourth round. The fourth round is getting deeper and deeper and deeper. As you mentioned, it was the 30th pick in the fourth round. And it's, it's again, that, that kind of, that doubt is starting to creep in. And then the, and then all of a sudden the phone rings and there's the excitement. It's Hey, the New York giants are on the phone. And the thing that's odd about the New York giants is I had spent extra time at the combine with the Broncos with, and I'd been taking a visit to the dolphins. There were a couple of, um, John Gruden, they were in the market for a quarterback. I met with him at the combine, um, a bunch of these other teams I had spent a lot of time with. The only thing I did with the New York giants was take this this standardized 400 question psychological evaluation that every player does. And that was it. I didn't talk to

any coaches, no coordinators, no quarterback coach, not Dan Reeves, anybody. So it was a complete shock to me, but I get the phone. I'm pumped. I don't care who it is at this point. The secretary comes on and she said, hold on. I got Dan Reeves on the line for you. And he came on, he said, you know, Dan, he said, congratulations, we've drafted you. And he had like a, he's like a friend of your family's, was a friend of mine. And I'm thinking everything's spinning at that time. And then it goes, all right, we'll get you up here, you know, get a flight and get you up here and we'll get you into camp. And it was kind of off to the races.

But the biggest shock to me was the lack of interest that the Giants showed in me the entire lead up to the process. And it turned out after the fact, I found out this later, George Young, the legendary Hall of Fame general manager for the New York Giants at the time, and Ernie Acorsi, the assistant GM, were in a fight with Dan Reeves. Dan Reeves didn't want me. He did not want another quarterback because he was in love with Tommy Maddox. Remember he drafted Tommy Maddox with the Broncos, brought him to the giants. He was still on the roster. Hadn't played very well and young. And of course he

were like, no, no, no. We see value in Canel. We want to bring them in here. And I think Dan Reeves was pissed when he got like, when I had, when he had to take me, I didn't find this out till later, much later, you know, after probably a year or two, I was on the Giants, but that was the environment that I went into. And at that, and then it was a complete whirlwind. Like you, all of a sudden you get the, you get the draft, you get the call, and then you're on a plane, you're getting your playbook, you're in camp, and then it just flies. It flies by. But that was the, that was the nature of my draft experience. So completely different than anybody else's where I was just wondering if I was ever going to get a chance.

By the way, the Dan Reeves note is incredible because I'm looking at this and he got stuck with you twice. So after a rookie year, he was out and they brought in Jim fossil and then you ended up so who knows well oh you want him over i know i for no i know you're thinking i'm joking so i get there he doesn't want me um but i end up beating out tommy maddox for the backup job and they cut tommy maddox so they got rid of him so i did and that was dan reeves's decision so I did win him over and I remember he gave a he gave a quote to the New York media that said I've never seen a quarterback pick up a system as fast as Cannell since John Elway and I was like oh okay sweet was it true no I had no idea what I was doing unless John Elway wasn't very like into

unless he didn't have that much of a grasp of the offense when he was young. But I did play a lot my rookie season. Dave Brown was struggling. Like I threw him a couple touchdown passes. Dave Brown was struggling. I understand. Dave is my guy. But he was struggling.

And so, like I played a lot. And Reeves did like me. Like he did. Like he liked me as a person. He likedves did like me. Like, he did. Like, he liked me as a person. He liked me as a player. So he actually did. It made a lot of sense because the system was there, and he wanted a quarterback to come back up, Chris Chandler.

So it made a lot of sense. So we actually – that was his decision to bring me to Atlanta, which was good. All right, that's perfect. And there was good-looking girls in Atlanta too, so it fit for me too. Even better. That definitely won Reeves over and that's definitely why my career was the way it was Tampa Bay Buccaneers have made the

sixth pick in the first round and they've selected Trent Dilfer quarterback Fresno State well they took their time, didn't they? But the Buccaneers have gotten their man, Trent Dilfer, from Fresno State. So for those that only know Trent from television, or maybe the guy that won a Super Bowl with the Ravens, you have to be reminded that Trent was the sixth overall pick in 1994.

He was that big of a deal. The guys that went ahead of him, Dan Big Cat Wilkinson, Marshall Falk, Keith Shuler, Willie McGinnis, Trev Alberts, and Trent Dilfer. So we're going to start here, Trent. What's your best draft day story? All right, Two quick ones. Number one, I didn't go to the Colts because my agent told them I would sit out the year and I would be, didn't be the Panthers first pick in their first year. So that was the whole Mel Kiper general manager argument on ESPN. They get shown every year.

They couldn't pick me at five instead of Trevor Albers because we said I wouldn't play. So I always try to defend the Colts that way. And I regret it because I could have played for Marshall. I've played with Marshall for a long time. So that's one kind of subplot. The bigger one to me was the night before the draft, I was told by the Redskins that I was going number three, that they had done all their work. I was going to go three. I was their guy. They knew Big Daddy would go one. Everybody knew Marshall would go to the Colts. So those were kind of locked in. That third pick was really the one that Heath and I would be. I'd become friends with Heath.

We were both trying to get to the Redskins because we both really liked North Turner through the draft process. And Cam Cameron was the quarterback coach then Then Charlie Casterly was the GM. So my wife had met some in our, in the draft process had met some players and players wives for the Redskins. And it's just falling in love with the Redskins. She'd already looked at homes. She had already like, she was all in it.

We're going to the Redskins the night before the draft. They tell us we're going, it's, you know, seeing Kumbaya. It's all good, baby. We're going to the Redskins the night before the draft. They tell us we're going, it's, you know, seeing Kumbaya. It's all good, baby. We're going three third pick comes up. It's he Shuler. We're on the floor in New York. Now it was different back then. This is 1994 kind of the families would sit off to the side and just fold up chairs off to the side of the stage. And when they picked he, she starts crying and I'm sitting there, my heart was racing. And I

was like, Oh my gosh, what just happened? Obviously we were lied to. Well, she's melting down. And like all of our family members, like cameras are coming. You can't show Trent's wife crying because he didn't go to Washington. So there's this big scramble. We kind of get her off to the side so that nobody would see her crying. But that was kind of the most traumatic part of the day. We knew we wouldn't go five to Indianapolis because of the agent conflict there. And then Tampa at six was a natural fit after that. Did you want to go to the Colts or did the agent at the time, like, were you on the same page?

I didn't know. You know, and that's what a lot of these kids struggle with is, you know, there's a lot of history between agents and GMs. There's a lot of opinions on the direction franchises are going to go. And you kind of have to trust them. And at the time, and I have nothing bad to say about my agent at the time, Mike Sullivan, he was a great agent. But he was convinced that the Colts were going nowhere, that this was a bad situation to be in. Even with Marshall Falk going to be there, it wasn't enough. He was convinced that that was

a bad spot and convinced me and my family that that would not be the best spot for us and that Tampa would be better one pick later. So I was, I liked Norv. We had some mutual friends, so I kind of wanted to go to the Redskins, but I also really had enjoyed Sam Weitsch in my draft process and figured Tampa would be a good fit. You know, you're an egomaniac at the time, so you think you can fix everything, and I figured I can go fix Tampa. That didn't happen, but at the time, you're thinking,

well, I can go anywhere. I'll make the best out of anything. Why did Washington lie to you then? I don't know. I played for Norv later. He said they had a change of heart the last second, the next morning. It was very close between me and Heath in their draft process. I mean, all the metrics they did, all the testing, everything they evaluated, they felt like it was either or.

I think it was more of a gut feel thing by Norv. Norv's still a very good friend, so I don't hold anything over his head with it. But for whatever reason, they woke up that morning and I've never gotten final word who know, whenever you had somebody who came in that just kind of flamed out and I think bust versus injured are two different things. Um, and I knew I would never call anybody a bust, uh, in that setting, but I, I basically was kind of doing like, Hey, you know, when you look back on it, like, do you think about what went wrong? And he's like, well, you know, if you have your foot broken into a million pieces, you're probably going to, I was like, oh, I'm like, okay. I'm like, here we go. And I didn't know if it was fair or not to be like, is it only the foot or were you not good enough? You know, you go third overall and the way it works too. I mean, most people, you're the high pick. It

doesn't work out. Um, but I, you know, like Sam Bowie came by and I was like, you know, the thing that sucks for you is you just straight up were never healthy. Like to me, Greg Oden was just never healthy, at least the basketball examples. But Heath was, gave me a look like it's only because I was hurt. And I think other people would argue that might now, it might not work out if you were healthy. Yeah. Who knows? I mean, I'm so thankful.

I mean, I get, I've said this on the show. I was the worst player in football my second year. I think I started three games. Maybe you'd have to check my stats. I really don't remember how many games I started my rookie year. Then my second year, I started all 16. You were in five. You started two.

Yeah. Okay. So 18 starts into my NFL career. I'm the worst quarterback in football by far. I guess not even an argument. Um, and then Tony comes in, stabilizes the situation in Tampa, but then we're one in seven, I think my third year. Um, and he didn't quit on me, you know, and, and then we ended up finishing really strong

my third year. And then the fourth year is a year. We turned it all around. I go to the Pro Bowl. We have eight guys go to the Pro Bowl. You know, we win a playoff game. Yada, yada, yada. So it does take – back then especially it took some time.

I think it takes less time now because the amount of throws kids have in high school, college, they've just played quarterback more. They've been more exposed to the position. I do think the game's way easier to play now, too, as a quarterback. I mean, astronomically easier just because all the gimme throws and all the schemes, all the innovation offensively. But, you know, with a guy like Heath, he was talented, and he was a tough guy, and he was a good leader.

I mean, I got to know him well during the draft process, and I thought he would be a success. Maybe it was injury. You just back then you guys needed three, four years before you really knew who they were going to be. to 43 touchdown to pick ratio does not get the fourth year and then was it that good one touchdown six picks you had an interception percentage i don't think i've ever seen a number this high where seven percent of your throws are picks yeah big number then the second year you started all 16 four touchdowns 18 picks jesus man thank god it wasn't first take era then oh i know steven a would have just been free and then when you got to your job back in the third year, 12 touchdowns, 19 picks, they would have lost their minds that you were still the starter.

No, it was crazy. I mean, and you had even back then you had, you know, players. I remember, I remember like Harding Nickerson and John Lynch and, you know, guys like that, that were like, wait a second. How is he still the guy? Um, and I felt it, you know, guys like that, that were like, wait a second, how is he still the guy? Um, and I felt it, you know, I knew I wasn't, but I, it clicked the middle of my third year. Um, it was really the middle of my third year where I kind of had the aha. Okay. I see why it's been so, so bad. Uh, and I know how to fix it. Um, and then fixing it, uh, stabilized

everything. And then it really was trying to build on top of that after. But it goes back, I was doing calling earlier today, and we're talking about the hits that Burrow's taking. And my fear isn't the physical stuff, it's the mental stuff. It's the confidence, because I can go back in my situation, I've talked to other quarterbacks that have been through this too, that they start losing trust in the system, the personnel in front of them. Well, then they lose trust in themselves. And that's really what happened to me. I went from

being a Heisman Trophy candidate and playing with all the confidence in the world to shattered confidence because I wasn't believing in the things around me and it was affecting me. So that's why I've always been over the past, you know, I think it's 11 years we've been talking through these. Do you play them earlier? Do you not play them early? I've always been on the conservative side of don't play the quarterbacks early because if anything, you raise the floor. Your ceiling might be the same if you play early or sit early, but I think your floor is guaranteed to be higher if you don't play earlier because you can learn from other people's mistakes. You can let other people have the scar tissue. You can let other people lose their confidence

and you're not affected by it. Thank you, Trent. You got it, buddy. Dr. J, Julius Irving, one of the most important basketball players of the modern generation, has a much more complicated beginning to his NBA story. He was drafted by a team that didn't sign him, and he was signed by a team that hadn't drafted him. So Julius Irving joins us now for his draft day story explain to us how you showed up to play in atlanta but the bucks had your rights because of wayne emory yeah so this was after my first year in virginia after after my rookie year um i signed with atlanta i a bonus, you know, quarter million dollars, get a car, get an apartment and get a five year contract. And the draft is in June. I signed his contract in May. I'm like, this is better than the one I have. My agent, you know, guys listen to the agents in those days.

He said, this is the right thing to do. And actually, in retrospect, it's probably not the right thing to do. But he said it was the right thing to do. So I did it. And as it turned out, I go to camp in Atlanta, conference and just coaching. So now you got me, Pistol Pete, and you got Walt Bellamy, and you got Lou Hudson. So, you know, you got four guys who are Hall of Famers

who would have been teammates for a five-year stretch. So who knows what would have happened to the NBA. So as it turned out, we play Houston two exhibition games. And we run up, you know, we're scoring 145, 150 points. Offensively, had given up maybe 130, 135. It was just run and gun up and down. And after those two games, there was a complaint. And it was a complaint that if Atlanta continued to play me,

that they would be fined. And it went to arbitration because at the draft, as it turned out, Atlanta had, you know, I think they had the fifth pick in the draft or maybe the third pick in the draft. And they drafted Steve Bracey, who was a guard. And Milwaukee had the 12th pick, and Milwaukee picked me because I had a history with Wayne Embry from camp. Didn't you beat him in camp when you were in high school or something?

I beat him in a palming contest. They always say you beat Wayne Embry. So, modesty comes back to play. But, you know, he called me out of a crowd, and I came up, and he was like, yeah, man, you got a big hand, blah, blah, blah, and so on and so forth. I'm 15, 16 years old.

And he just remembered it. I stayed in his mind, and he drafted me with that 12th pick. So if they allowed me to play for Atlanta, they would have been, Milwaukee would have been wasting their pick. And Atlanta should have drafted have been wasting their pick. And Atlanta should have drafted me with their early pick, but they didn't.

And they cried foul and said, well, we got this player under contract, so you can't draft him. And they said, we'll see. As it turned out, the ruling went against the Hawks. And if I was going to play in the NBA, I would have to go to Milwaukee immediately and forget about Atlanta. So I went back to the ABA, as it turned out, went back to Virginia. And then I played that second year. And Charlie and I were there the second year until he disappeared and went back to Phoenix.

And we brought the Iceman in, in the second year until he disappeared and went back to Phoenix. And we brought the Iceman in my second year. So George Irvin and I were teammates. And, you know, I mean, both of them are Hall of Famers. But they were both great guys to have on your resume as teammates. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet.

What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. LifeAdviceRRatGmail.com Okay, let's get a few in here. This one, I actually feel bad

because when this guy's going to hear us talk about it and then as the audience hears this, this is going to be so obvious that I don't need to go on one of my long deals and also tell stories in between. That's why they're long because usually I'm just trying to equate things to other things and share stories with you guys because you seem to like it.

Okay, big fan of Kyle as well. Shout out to Kyle. 35 years old. Live in Los Angeles with my wife. Two kids, both under three years old. I do pretty well making between 350, 400K a year. Whoa. You saying I do pretty well and then throwing out that kind of number.

And I, it's just, I know what you're saying. Cause you live in Los Angeles. You're surrounded by other people that are like, Hey, what, how expensive everything is out here. Um,

it's, it's, it's a really, really great living that you get to make that much money. But I also get why you said it that way. It's just that other people are going to read that and be like, are you kidding, dude?

I'm doing pretty well. Like you're killing. All right. But I know what you're doing and I'm just trying to explain it going to read that and be like, are you kidding, dude? I'm doing pretty well. Like you're killing. All right. But I know what you're doing and I'm just trying to explain it to everybody. All right. He says, my wife does not currently work. So I support the family, which I'm fine with. We were able to save a little and I can max out the 401k, et cetera.

But as you know, LA is expensive, rent, car payments, health insurance. So it's not like we were rolling in the dough. And some people would listen to this and go, how are you going to be kidding me? But I understand what you're saying. All right. My wife told me she wants, you know, talking to cars, probably private school for the kids at some point in the whole deal. Like I get it. And then you're already putting money away for all the other stuff. My wife told me she wants to go back to work ASAP. She's in a lot of work where she make around 35 to 40 K a year. The cost to send two kids to daycare in my neighborhood will be around 4,500 a month. So we're talking 54 K a

year after tax. So we'd essentially $54,000 a year after tax. So we'd essentially be paying for my wife to work. I've expressed my preference for her to stay at home with the kids as it makes more sense financially. But she says she will be more fulfilled working and happier. Question is, do I just eat the cost a couple years to the kids that are in public school and let her work be happier and more fulfilled?

Or do I put my foot down? We could afford it, but it doesn't make sense financially. You let her work, be happier and more fulfilled? Or do I put my foot down? We could afford it, but it doesn't make sense financially. You let her work and just saying like, hey, I'm letting you do something. This is a no brainer. As you mentioned your salary and yes, money coming in, money going out. You don't want to be on the wrong side of that. And this is one of those transactions where you're going to be on the wrong side of it, but it's a couple of years of temporary. And you have to simply switch roles here. If your wife were making that much money, 350, 400K a year, and you had aspirations, you had things you wanted to do. And she was saying to you, well, look, it just doesn't make any sense. We're going to lose about 15K plus a year on you working and doing something that you enjoy.

We just can't do it. You'd freak the fuck out. I would. Um, or maybe you're so fiscally constraining that you just can't handle the math on this, that it's a loss that it's, that's just a full on loss by doing this. But what it isn't a loss is for your wife. It's your, your wife is going to feel fulfilled. She's going to start doing the things that she set out to do before she had to pause everything in her life to have kids for you and your family. So, um, I know it's a loss, but it's not some staggering loss. You know, it's not going to really impact your day to day or what you're, you know, available to do. You're not going to have to sit there and sell a car and all that kind of stuff or move. So she should be working if she wants to work. And I don't really think, um,

you needed to send me an email for, for you to figure that one out. Um, unless you're, you're one of those financial guys who's so strict about budgets and all that kind of stuff. I would tell you in this case, be less strict. I can't, I can't fathom telling your wife. No, actually I worked, I ran the numbers. You're going to be staying at home. So there you go. Okay, hoops one here. My wife and I both vaccinated. Cool.

Oh, this is not a basketball one. This is a DJ music one. This is a good one. Cerruti and Kyle will like this. Okay. And I didn't ask Kyle on that last one a basketball one this is a dj music one this is a good one saruti saruti and kyle like this okay and i didn't ask kyle on that last one because i'm pretty sure kyle not super worried about it um yeah don't don't make three hundred thousand dollars a year or have a wife so don't have much to say yeah and just the phrasing alone kyle i didn't feel comfortable with that

let let you didn't like that either didn't like that either i know what he's doing he's simply expressing it in email so i don't i don't want to our god i feel like he's getting beat up on here okay this is a really good one my wife and i both vaccinated shout out okay just happily started hosting other friends who are also vaccinated i got invited to a birthday party but it was like you have to be vaccinated for it i was like wow okay there you go it's real real warfare out there. All right. The vaccination has nothing to do with my question story. Just throwing it out there. Oh, so we don't get judged for not being safe. There you go. This is what we've come to. Anonymous emailers are making sure the audience knows that they've been vaccinated

if they have a few people over to listen to music. There's a couple who we've really missed hanging out with. Let's call them Fred and Bonnie. Are they 130 years old? Fred and Bonnie, who we invited to come over last week along with another couple. It was really great to see them, and we had a great evening except for one thing, and that's the thing that comes up in the past, but I just totally forgot about it. All right, so it used to happen. He forgot, and now it happened again.

Got it. Fred thinks it's completely okay to open up his Sonos app, hijack whatever music is playing on our sound system, and put on his own personal playlist on our Sonos without asking us. I might let it go if there was new music playing at the time, and Fred just wanted to get things started, but that's not the case. This started about two years ago when he came over and said, oh, you have to listen to this playlist.

Like he had just discovered new land or a cure for the common cold. But it sounded like all he did was just play the last lumineer station on spotify two years later fred is still up to his old tricks and guess what it sounds like the same damn station every time nothing in his playlist has changed making matters worse on this visit the woman from the couple went up to fred at one point and said great playlist so now i'll look like an even bigger asshole if i change the music back or said something to fred my question is do i say something to him the next time he's over? Do I casually change the music back to what my wife and I want? Or do we just let it go? I'm not sure it's worth starting

any friction over, but at the same time, it's not often I use the word shits butt and Fred is showing a lot of it. Yeah, that sucks, man. Now, look, there's always a version that maybe you could be wrong and Fred could be killing it. But Fred's a music control freak and we have people in our lives that are that way. You know, I'm the attention span. Now you throw your phone down and with a gathering and you're sitting at the kitchen island. And if you get a minute into a song, it's shocking, especially if girls are over. Fucking forget it. talking. Uh, especially if, if, if girls are over fucking forget it. I've never heard it. I've never heard a completed song at my house ever in, in, in a decade. So, um, it's really up to you and

what you're able to handle. It seems like a weird thing to get mad at. Cause it is like, he's screwing it up. He's doing something you don't want him to do. It's your house. If you did it at his house, he would freak out, right? Maybe you should do that. Maybe that's the solution. Just start putting on Mastodon. Be like, you have to hear this, like, especially this part right here. It's all based on nautical history, this one. So I would, uh, I would maybe switch it up on him and try to put together something,

some real heat though, you know? So maybe Mastodon wouldn't play. I wouldn't mind it but i could see other people turning that down to an adult party but you get the point you go back at him that way but it's bothering you so you know what you could do you just a little warfare here where the next get together you actually put some time into it put together a great playlist tell everyone how excited you are about the playlist. Your wife is going to be like eye roll laughing. It'll be your little

joke. It'll be kind of funny. Maybe you guys will rekindle, see that thing in each other that you liked and you're funny and you have this inside joke about this playlist that you put together. And then if he's like, oh, but I got to wait, then you just be like, hey, dude, Fred. Like, I

made this playlist. Like, be a little stern, but fair dude, Fred, I made this playlist. Be a little stern, but fair. And yeah, I think that's the way to play it. You tell him how excited you are about this playlist that you put together. So if he's still willing to just barge through the front doors of your musical taste and decide, okay, then he's just a bully. He's a music bully. And I'm going to kind of fight back here.

But I think a turn the music off, let's address the situation, let's pull him aside. I would be playful in the way I would fuck with him about it instead of making it something where it seems like, unfortunately, if you take it really seriously, then you end up looking like the asshole, and then he's going to start talking about you to the neighbors and the other people in the group. And then everybody's going to get

a version of the story from Fred. Like, yeah, man, this guy's so protective of this music. Like we're just putting on a playlist. You know what I mean? When you're like, okay, but that's not really what's happening. If you describe the story that way, yes, the host looks like the asshole, but that's not really what's happening. So I would kind of be playful and kind of go at him a little bit and be like, oh, wait, I only made it three songs in, Fred. That's a record for you. Or, hey, Fred, your wife cheats on you. You have a playlist for that. Something like that. Something casual. You know what I'm saying? Lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Simmons and I on Sunday, and we'll be back with part two and part three of Draft Day Stories in the next following weeks. So hope you enjoy please subscribe spread the word Thank you.