The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Draft Day Stories: Part 3 With Matt Leinart, Jeff Saturday, Tedy Bruschi, and Michael Vick. Plus Carson Palmer and the Worst Loss of the NBA Season.

Episode Date: April 28, 2021

Russillo shares his thoughts on the Celtics' loss to the Thunder, and trying to find meaning in games during the last month of the NBA season (2:00). Then Ryen talks with three-time Pro Bowl QB Carson Palmer about his time with the Bengals, making his way to the Cardinals, dealing with media criticism, his thoughts on some of the top QB prospects in the 2021 NFL draft, and more (13:00). Then in Part 3 of a three-part series, Ryen talks with Matt Leinart, Jeff Saturday, Stanford Steve, Tedy Bruschi, and Michael Vick about their draft experience (41:00). Then Ryen makes an announcement (1:20:00) before answering some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:30:00). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Matt Leinart, Jeff Saturday, Tedy Bruschi, Michael Vick, Carson Palmer, and Stanford Steve Producer: Kyle Crichton Producer: Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

the best one was chicago i i had i had multiple um agents maneuvering me from the first pick with the bangles down to the fourth pick with chicago and one guy was like you know here's what we're gonna do you're gonna totally go up and blow up your pro day you're gonna throw a bunch of dinks that that you know, that don't even spiral into the dirt. And I was like, hold on, dude, we got to go. But no, I mean, there was there was some really. And looking back, had I gotten to the Bears initially, that was a really good team. And obviously with Lance Briggs and Erlacher and just, you know, Peanut Tillman, all the players they had on defense, they got to a Super Bowl there pretty quickly. But that was, you know, that was one of the first meetings I had with an agent where I was like, oh, this is for real. Like I might be getting traded. It's going to be a lot of fun today. The third installment of our draft day stories. Then we

also spent some time talking with Carson Palmer, almost a bear at one point and taking his pro day on purpose to avoid Cincinnati and a little NBA at the top in life advice. Tough loss by the Seas, but I got to tell you, a good loss in the grand scheme of things. Fought hard, missing Tatum, missing Walker, Oklahoma City, really energetic, youthful team, aggressive, good system, good culture. I'm kidding. That's an absolutely atrocious loss for the Celtics, and I'm going to tell you why. I'm going to go through a few teams here, and the theme is trying to figure out any of this stuff before the playoffs start,

which probably is a waste of time for me to spend too much time researching and looking at all these different things. But I'm going to share a lot of it with you because maybe we find something mining through the information. Oklahoma City, I'm not going to spend too much time on this, but let's run through some quick numbers just so you understand how bad they are and how poorly that reflects on the Celtics even missing a couple guys.

But in April, Oklahoma City was 0-14. Their points per game last in the NBA 100 points. They were 20 points worse than Milwaukee, who's the best scoring team in April. Again, it's just a scoring number. But the fact that one team could on average be 20 points less than the other team in this league now is absurd. Their 29th and three-point shooting ahead of only Orlando. OKC, 32%.

Orlando, 31%. I apologize to Magic fans in advance here. You're going to hear some stuff you don't like. Offensive, defensive efficiency for the Thunder. At one point, they were 98 points per 100 going into last night's game. That was six points worse than Orlando, who was 29. Their defensive efficiency is 29 for April, which is ahead of only, you guessed it, the Orlando Magic. Their net rating going into last night's game was minus 21.

That's actually an improvement because at one point, April had the Thunder. I forget, maybe it was like 10 games in, nine games in. They were minus 24 in net rating. And if you look at Orlando, who's second worst, Orlando's still like five points better than them going into yesterday on the net overall rating. I was trying to find something good for the Thunder, their second fastest pace this month,

which means they actually play faster than everybody except for one team, and they're still terrible in the efficiency stuff. So when I looked at that, and hey, what does that mean for Boston? Well, it means the same thing for Boston. If you're buying into this team, the only reason people are going to pick Boston in a 6-3 matchup, which could totally change because 4, 5, 6, 7 are all bunched up by two games with the Knicks, Hawks, Celtics in heat. The Hawks keep winning with their injuries throughout the entire season. I'm not entirely shocked that with Bogdanovich initiating the offense

and them going off that they're going to kind of keep pace here for a little bit. I am surprised by the Knicks putting together that nine-game win streak. We'll get to them in a second. But when I look at Boston and somebody say, well, Milwaukee's had playoff failures, I would ask you, have you watched Boston at all in the last two months? And if you have, there's really not much to get excited about

other than a brief stretch there where they went out west, they won those games, but I really didn't think that, I felt like that was scheduling and circumstance more than it was them figuring it out. I really did. Now, the Knicks have the worst record of any of the top six teams against 500 teams or better, right? So what is your record against 500 teams or better?

Brooklyn's 23-9, which is easily the best in the East because Philly's only two games over 500. Milwaukee's 17-17. The Hawks are 14-20. The Celtics are 15-18. The Heat are 12-20. The Knicks are 12-19. That's not a great sign. That's something that usually if you look over the years of

playoff teams, like, hey, I like this four or five matchup. You're like, yeah, but this team was really good against 500 teams and this team stunk against them. I know they're only separated by a couple of games, but that can be telling at times because the Knicks culture build up during that win streak. It was like, hey, Knicks culture. You're like, man, are they better than heat culture? Because heat culture beat Phoenix suns training staff years ago but now i'm worried if i'm a heat culture guy if the knicks culture is now going to be a higher seed then you know we'll worry about that stuff later uh but the knicks they shoot it really well and i feel like they have this consistency about them that tells you that their guys are all there but

when i looked at the Man Games Lost website, I think it's mangameslost.com. You got to pay to look at some of the stuff. It'll put in perspective how many total games are lost, how many games are actually lost of valuable players, and they'll look at a couple different metrics because I'll see home broadcasts basically building excuses

for why the team isn't doing as well. And they'll post all of these guys that have missed games. They won't tell you who, but they'll just say they lost this many games to protocol and injury and all this stuff. Oh, tough season, Brad. We'll get them next year. You know, that kind of stuff. And you're like, yeah, I don't know, man.

There's a really easy way to sort through all this. The Pelicans in some metrics are the healthiest team in the NBA this year. But when you think about their backcourt situation, it certainly hasn't felt like that. Washington has metrics where it looks like it's lost a ton of value, but really that value was baked into Thomas Bryant not being there for the most part because then he just went down. So the Knicks actually track a little bit more in the middle than I would have thought for a team that feels like they know exactly who they are every night.

And as I've said throughout the season, and I think this is where it ties back into the thunder, that if you watch even bad teams that try really hard in this kind of season, they can get some wins and the Knicks aren't a bad team. I just am surprised they're sitting there at the four seat at this point of the year. And it also gets back to Randall. Kyle Mann, who was on with Simmons last weekend, I think. It might have been Sundays. He's a Kentucky guy. He was so good on Randall because I've heard people talk about it. I've had people ask me about it. Like, this Randall thing came out of nowhere. And you're like, it kind of didn't, though. Now, the numbers he's putting up this year and the MVP chance, and look, MVP chance at this point are like asking a parent who his favorite kid at recess is, right?

So it's not exactly the most objective thing that we have. It's just people like to chant MVP. And Randall's taking his game to another level and it locks some different stuff. But as Mann pointed out, like who's watched him, he goes, you know, there's a lot of stuff that was always kind of in there. And now this is the most maximized version of Julius we've ever seen. I personally like Randall coming out. I have been right and wrong and right and wrong and right and wrong about the smart Randall thing. As I said, over and over and over again, it's just on a loop where at times I was like, man, I know that Celtic should have taken Randall. And then there were

times where it was like, man, thank God they didn't take Randall. Look how great smart is. And look what he means to this thing. It's certainly not a victory lap now because it just seems cyclical all the time. So the Knicks shoot it well. They defend enough. I feel like there's more consistency with the lineup. I feel like they know exactly what they're supposed to be doing, even if it feels like it's a lot of Randall ISO stuff. And even though you go, hey, do they have enough shooters?

Well, they shoot it. They shoot it really well. You know, the 39% from three on the season. So man games lost. The Nets, they're the captain of this ship because the craziest thing about some of the games lost and the value of the players that you've lost, no one tops Brooklyn,

but then the Clippers are right there. And then, of course, the Lakers, depending on how you want to sort it, it's either Brooklyn and the Lakers or Brooklyn and the Clippers. Let's all agree that those teams have really good players that have not played this year. And yet both of those teams, whether it's the Nets or Clippers,

have played really well. The Clippers are only two games off of the best record in the NBA. They're only two games behind the Jazz right now, three in the loss column. Kawhi's missed 17 games. Paul George has missed two games. They have a great offense. They rebound the hell out of the ball, and they have a top six defense after the all-star break. And not only are they shooting it well, they're like 42% from three

as a team, which is a pretty good gap to the number two team in that number, right? So Brooklyn misses guys, but it doesn't matter. The Nets have played 27 different players in a game this year. And a team that we were worried about, as we should, we go, well, you have that many guys in the top three in your salary. Where's the room for everybody else?

Joe Harris has been terrific. Brown has been good in spots. Griffin is completely re-energized in this super role-player role for them. I've even liked Cabaroux at some point um Shamit isn't a wash Claxton's had moments Jeff Green will make shots if there's not three minutes left in the game um I mean it just goes on and on I mean again 27 players feels like a lot but even when they're missing two-thirds of the chunk they just keep winning games they keep winning games against good teams.

So when I factor in all the net stuff that we do worry about going, am I really going to buy into a version of this team that I've never seen, yet they've kept winning the entire time when they haven't been complete? Their offense is great. We know that. Defensive tracking per 100. I've looked at it every month. Overall, they're 24th. January, they were 27th. February, they were 23rd. March 21st. And in April, it's their best month that I can see. They're 24th. January, they were 27th. February, they were 23rd. March 21st. And in April, it's their best month that I can see. They're 18th in defensive efficiency, even though the main guys still aren't playing. So that means that everybody that plays in a Nets game basically figures out how to fit in with whoever else they're playing.

And the defensive numbers certainly aren't great, but they're getting better. And I look at some of those fourth quarter numbers for them, which have been atrocious at times. It's 17th. It's not great, but have been atrocious at times, it's 17. It's not great, but it's not as abysmal as it used to be. And when Houston went small last year, we talked about defense over and over and over again. But it wasn't about the defense.

It was about the rebounding. Because once Houston went small, they didn't give it as much defensively as your eyes would tell you because they were small and they were switching everything. And there were just going to be matchups where it was going to be a disaster for PJ Tucker trying to deal with the Lakers front line. But the Houston Rockets were the worst rebounding team after the all-star break last year. And when I look at the Nets and the rebounding rate and whatever, you know, sometimes they're

big, sometimes they're small. They're probably going to be small in the playoffs in those closing moments. The rebounding rate is 10. Now, maybe none of these numbers will mean anything because of how weird it has been and how weird it's going to be small in the playoffs in those closing moments. The rebounding rate is 10. Now, maybe none of these numbers will mean anything because of how weird it has been and how weird it's going to get. But I think the headline of this is the Clippers have had major guys out and they win. And here Brooklyn is as the one seed in the East. And they've been not even close to complete.

East and they've been like not even close to complete. I can't imagine that any time in NBA history we've had a one seed have 27 guys suit up for him in a year. Carson Palmer joins us on the podcast. Carson, you know, look, we all know your deal. You played a long time. It was funny because we had Kitten on recently and normally any quarterback in that situation would be like, ah, and but then he immediately that situation would be like, ah. But then he immediately was like, dude, he was so good. Carson was so good that I was just kind of over it and knew my run was going to be short-lived. But when you first got to Cincinnati, how important was it having somebody like Kitten to believe in you and be okay with the arrangement? Really a rare opportunity.

I mean, it's one thing to be okay with it. And then it's another thing to be good in the media and not cause any controversy because he had been playing well and statistically he had been playing well, but the team had not been winning because the team just didn't have the same talent level that other teams had. But for John to be okay with it and to see kind of the writing on the wall and be so accepting and helpful and a teacher, a coach, a mentor, that's a really rare and unique situation. And I think it's so important, especially with these quarterbacks nowadays where, you know, with, with, you know, the new CBA and, and, you know, the rookie wage scale, these contracts for rookies have gotten shorter. So you have to play earlier. You don't have the time to sit on the sideline and be groomed. So that other quarterback in the room, as well as the quarterback coach that are in the room, is so instrumental. And John was so instrumental.

I had Ken Zampezi as my quarterback coach, who was an unbelievable quarterback coach and taught me a lot. But then I got Kitna sitting right behind me in every meeting, especially early on, like we're in front of the offense and he would tell me and help me when to chime in and help me with my leadership, help me understand the offense, help me how to, how to help control the room and lead the room. He was so instrumental in every way. And it was because he was okay with it. He saw, all right, they drafted this guy. He's going to take my job and he was okay with it and nurtured me along and brought me along. And that's just so rare. And I think it's so important for these quarterbacks nowadays,

they're getting drafted and pretty much have to play in that first year. It's very rare for a Patrick Mahomes type situation where they sit behind a guy like Alex Smith. And it's so important to have a great quarterback coach in that room, but also a great mentor leader example, you know, a sounding board backup quarterback that can be there for you, the future of your franchise and your next and your rookie quarterback. I know, you know, over the years of working with Danny Connell at ESPN, we would argue a lot about the grooming process. And again, me saying that out loud with a guy who played in the league and I'm just a

talk show host telling him that I think he's wrong about some of the things, but I always felt like eventually if you were going to be really good, it wouldn't matter. His argument was the NFL can absolutely ruin a quarterback and a guy that could have been good can be destroyed. I don't dismiss the idea of certain guys getting in circumstances that derail their career, but you came from it where you were groomed behind somebody that was cool with it. Mahomes is a great example. We could talk about Rodgers, but I don't think Favre was doing Rodgers any favors. And they certainly didn't think that Rodgers was going to sit there for four years, which is the whole reason they went and drafted him anyway. But you're right.

Guys are just thrown in there even when the teams tell us that now we're going to take time. We're going to take time. How real, I guess the best way to ask it would be, how real do you think that is, that certain quarterbacks are destroyed that maybe would have been 10-year starters somewhere else because of the urgency we have now in the league? I 100% agree with Danny. I think the best, we'll take Sam Darnold, for example. Sam is as talented physically as any quarterback probably in the league.

Now, he may not have the velocity on the ball that Mahomes has or Rodgers has, but his pocket awareness and natural ability within the pocket, his ice in his veins at the end of games in college and the way he played. And then he goes to New York and he gets the lung beat out of him. He gets a sprained throwing shoulder and it's one injury. And then unfortunately he has mono, but we're at a point right now,

a month ago before Carolina traded for him where people were like, Sam Darnold's a bust. Sam Darnold is not a bust. Sam Darnold is extremely talented. He went to the wrong place at the wrong time, and it almost cost him his career. And I think going to Carolina, which is a great organization, David Tepper is a great owner. They've got a great young head coach that got some good pieces. You're going to see Sam flourish, and he would not flourish. He proved that to us,

that he would not flourish in New York. And that's why I'm a little bit concerned about Zach Wilson going there from BYU at the second pick, because it's not a stable situation. It is not an environment to grow. It's the same thing that, you know, to take it outside of football terms. It's the same thing, you know, when parents are evaluating kindergarten, where can my child go and learn and be nurtured and grow? And where will my child, you know, probably not get the time he needs and the attentiveness he needs, and you avoid that school and send him to this school. Well, it's the same thing in the NFL. When you're a young quarterback, you need to be nurtured. You need to grow. It doesn't matter how complicated or pro style offense you come from in college. You need to be able to grow. And it's a huge issue. And quarterbacks careers can absolutely, you know, go into the ground.

And we almost saw it with Sam. And thankfully, he's going to a great organization that is on a great trajectory as far as today is concerned.'re headed in the right direction and I think New York is just kind of squabbling in the same direction which is just kind of mediocrity and the quarterbacks get the lung beat out of them they get beat up and I mean Sam was a top top 10 draft pick and they've already moved on to their next top 10 draft pick at quarterback. So I think the environment, the coach, the owner, the backup quarterback, the groomer, the offensive main, it all is so impactful on a young quarterback that all of those things work out well and work in unison. Because when they don't, you start off with the first four years of your career

a lot like Sam Donalds. You're more convincing than Danny was to me over the years, but my counter to Danny was always that I've never met anybody that didn't want to play, that got drafted and was like, he was like, yeah, I know that. The joke on the show was that, I'm like, you just wanted to be on a roster and never having to deal with the rest of the stuff. And he would be like, fair, that's entirely fair.

So, look, when you were getting... The guys that made a lot of money and played a long time that never entirely fair. So, uh, look, when you were getting a lot of money and played a long time that never really had to play. And there's nothing wrong with that. Cause you guys, there's a bunch of guys that played six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 12 years, and they don't have 15 surgeries to show for it and can't go skiing with their kids. They have a long career, a pension, uh, hopefully a lot of money in the bank, and they still feel pretty good walking away from the game. So it's not too bad of a get.

Yeah, exactly. When you go back to Cincinnati drafting you, and I've watched the football life and I've read everything on it, how stubborn were you at the time when you had so many people telling you, don't go there? It appears that a lot of people

were telling you, hold out. Like, pull a John El elway don't end up in cincinnati as the number one pick everybody told me that um every every agent i interviewed before i walked into the interview already had a route to avoid the bangles um but i i loved it i i i was told don't go there it's a quarterback graveyard your career will not be what it could have been if you end up there and so i being young and naive just was like no i'm gonna go there and change it and and change um you know their you know the you know their their, change how the organization does things. Obviously, they hadn't been doing things correctly for a long time. I thought I was the change of that. And it took me nine years to realize that it wasn't. But no, I mean, when I was coming out,

I don't think there was one person outside of my agent that I ended up hiring who he did not have a plan. He did not have, Hey, we're going to do this. I've already been talking to these guys and we're going to get you. So-and-so is going to trade up and all these different mechanics are going to happen. And you're not going to end up there. He didn't say that. He said, what do you want in my first meeting with them? And I think after he asked me that question, that was the first time throughout the whole process. Cause as soon as you get done playing your senior year of college, if you're going to be a top pick, you got to hire an agent. You got to hire somebody to train you. You got to get ready for the draft. You got to get ready for your pro day. You got to get ready

for all these things. And, and the agent I hired Dave Dunn with athletes first, the first thing he says is what do you want to do? And I said, I want to go to the Bengals. Again, I was young and naive, and there was a lot of really calculated, cool moves that everybody else I interviewed had already been kind of working. What was the best one? What was the best one that was a hypothetical that could have happened? The best one was Chicago. I had, I had multiple, um, agents maneuvering me from the first pick with the bangles down to the fourth

pick with Chicago. And one guy was like, you know, here's what we're going to do. You're going to totally go up and blow up your pro day. You're going to throw a bunch of dinks that, that, you know, that don't even spiral into the dirt. And I was like, hold on, dude, I, we got to go. But, um, no, I mean that there was, there was some really, and looking back, had I gotten to the bears initially, that was a really good team. And obviously with Lance Briggs and Erlacher and just, you know, peanut Tillman, all the players they had on defense, they got to a Superbowl

there pretty quickly. But that was, you know, that was one of the first meetings I had with an agent where I was like, oh, this is for real. I might be getting traded. That's crazy. How mad were you? Just annoyed? You want me to just tank my pro day? To hear that is just so funny. But when you're a younger guy and you're like, well, I don't want everybody to think I suck, even though you're still going one anyway. I don't know. No, I mean, that meeting ended really quickly. But at that time, too, like you're hearing all these things about you.

You know, he's going to be the top pick. No, he's going to be a bust. He's never going to play. And everything in between. And so that pro day was an opportunity to go out and display my abilities and my skills. And I wasn't about to go out and tank and sandbag because that was an opportunity for me to start the process of proving myself. it's like, man, Carson's going to save this team. And you get hurt. And then as I read, I mean, you get to the point,

you would just call the owner. You would just call him and say, hey, we got to do a better job here. And it appeared that he was pretty stuck. And I still think, look, this is over 10 years ago, almost 10 years ago when it comes to a head. Was he almost like offended that a player under contract would be calling him and complaining about the direction of an organization? Cause that's what it came off as, as I would, I would go into it.

Well, the first thing I'd say is don't believe everything you read. I, I, there was never a call. I had very few conversations, maybe five conversations my entire time there with him, but I went up and met with him. Mike Brown, right? Mike Brown. Yeah. conversations my entire time there with them but i went up and met with them um mike brown right mike brown yeah i went up and met with them and and um so to answer the first question a lot of players have tried to get out of that organization chad johnson was doing it chad otrasenko was doing it right before me and he was trying to get out and get out and get out and they wouldn't let

him out then they finally let him out. So I think, you know, he had heard that conversation many times and a lot of players were frustrated. But I think I was just the first player to express my frustration. And then he had his rebuttal to my frustration. And I was the first player to say, all right, then I'm out. I'll play for somebody else, but I won't play for you. So I'm sure he was pretty frustrated with that. Right. Because at that time, I remember, you know, this is before you'd had a run of NBA stars calling their shots where now it's been a decade of it. And it's just kind of accepted. Fan bases can be frustrated, but the media is far more

supportive of it, especially when it's a bad NBA organization. And now we've seen that kind of filter into some of the quarterback stuff where it especially felt like this offseason, whether it was Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, some other names that are popping up and be like, okay, is this the next wave of American sports where we see quarterbacks call their shots, realizing I actually do have this kind of power

where I don't have to show up week one if I don't want to go ahead and do this. This is something like you were okay not playing again. Is that is that true? No, I just I just knew what teams were ready to offer for me. And I thought to myself, you know, here's their opportunity. You can either get something, which was a lot. There were a number of packages with multiple picks, or you can get nothing. And if you get nothing, that proves my point that winning is not the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is digging your feet in the ground for the organization and doing it your way, where if you have an opportunity to get something for nothing, if you're truly trying to win, you're going to get something, especially when it's multiple first round picks.

trying to win, you're going to get something, especially when it's multiple first round picks. But at that time, I mean, as soon as I took my stance and met with Mr. Brown and told him what I was thinking and dug my heels in the ground, I was getting lambasted in the media and I couldn't go out and defend myself and say anything because at that time, everybody's argument was, you're a rich professional athlete and you signed a contract. You got to fulfill your contract. Well, organizations never, you never hear of a player playing out their contract. That hardly ever happens. It's like 0.3% of the time players play out in extension. Most of the time they either get cut, traded, or forced into taking less money.

So my argument at the time was, hold on now, I signed a contract, but the guaranteed portion of my contract was over. I had relieved that portion of the contract. So I was, you know, essentially all that really matters is what's guaranteed. You're seeing teams cut players that sign a player to a six-year contract, but the guaranteed money runs out in year three and they cut them. And so I was sitting on the sidelines watching all the media say what they thought of my situation. And I'm sitting there going, man, NFL teams do this all the time. Just because you sign that contract, once that guaranteed money's up, that contract

is essentially rip-upable for the team or for the player now. And nobody had really done that. And so I was kind of the guinea pig. And I got absolutely roasted by every major publication and news channel. And now you're seeing it with a number of players, as you mentioned, all the guys in the NBA, Russell Wilson, and just different guys you're hearing contractual situations all the time in Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers. Now it's kind of the norm. Now it's known as soon as that guaranteed money is up, really the rest of the years in your contract are really voidable. Yeah, I think even if you look at the Deshaun stuff, I don't even think the guaranteed money is up.

And that was one, and prior to everything he's going through now, which is going to shift the level of support for Deshaun. But it was, okay, Houston isn't a good organization. Public sentiment was on Deshaun's side. The Russell Wilson one feels a little bit more complicated. So, you know, because I'll look at it and be like, hey, that's a pretty good organization. Like they were doing some good things. And, you know, I'm not look at it and be like, Hey, that's a pretty good organization. Like they were doing some good things. And you know, I'm not sure

what that's about. I mean, I personally believe based on stuff I've heard is that he and the wife want a bigger market. So I'd ask you this, like, would you think you'd always support anyone for calling their shot? Or can you look at them individually and say, Hey, just because this guy wants out and I want it out, well, he wasn't with Cincinnati. So it's an entirely different situation. Yeah. You know, I don't know that I look at it as as as black and white as that is. Do I support this guy or do I support that? We don't know what's going on. We don't know what's going on in Seattle. We don't know what's going on in Houston. There's certain things players can say. There's certain team things that the teams can say from a litigious standpoint. So you never really quite know the story.

But I just caution guys that the grass, I was told this when I made my stand with the Bengals, is there's a reason the grass is greener on the other side. It's because there's more manure over there sometimes. So I'd be really careful in Seattle. I mean, that is a great organization. The head coach has done a phenomenal job. And Pete Carroll, it's a great fan base. That ownership group is willing to spend, which is a huge branch of all of it.

If the owner is willing to do what it takes to win and willing to spend what it takes to win. They've proved that over time. So, you know, so I, it's, it's hard to say definitively, I'm going to support everybody that, that puts their neck on the line and says, I want out. I'm also not going to, going to, you know, trash anybody that says the same thing because we don't know what's going on. But the other side of that is we as quarterbacks only have so much time. Deshaun Watson only has four, five, six, seven years in his prime. Russell Wilson only has maybe that long in his prime. So

your window is so short. And when the organization continuously makes mistakes, like making Bill O'Brien, the head coach and the GM and the offensive coordinator, that's a lot on one man's plate. And, and what we don't know is what was Deshaun's reaction to that was Deshaun going ownership going, hold on. Now the head coach has a full-time job and you're going to make him the GM and, and he's going to be calling plays too. Like he may have had a rebuttal with the organization when they made that decision. And there is, you know, a fine line between letting players make organizational decisions or not. And there's a fine line to listening to them. And maybe Deshaun feels like, you know, I went in with, hey, there's too much on this guy's plate. He's got a lot going on. Can we find another way around this? And maybe the organization said, hey, player, go play. We got this. Or maybe the organization said, absolutely. What are your ulterior plans? What else do you have for us? What other ways can we go with this? So we just don't know that dialogue in those walls of that facility.

So it's really hard to say, I'm going to support this guy or I'm not going to support this guy. What I do know from my own experience is the grass isn't always greener. Sometimes it is, but you got to be careful when you're leaving an organization like the Seattle Seahawks, there's only a couple organizations you can go to that are much better. Maybe Pittsburgh, New York Giants. I mean, there's a handful of organizations that are the creme de la creme. And then there's some that are absolutely bottom of the bucket. And then there's a lot in the middle. And so if you go from one of those premier organizations like the Seattle Seahawks to an organization that doesn't quite have the

leadership and the foundation that Seattle has, Russell might be winning a lot less games and be an MVP and, you know, MVP talk a lot less and the playoffs a lot less. You got to be really careful with that. I don't know if you believe in, in, in karma or, you know, some of the things that, you know, we wonder if other things are going on but did you feel like after because you took a lot of shit man i mean i remember it was like who's this guy i think he is and it was just a different time the way we talked about athletes um and if you did it today and you were with cincinnati there'd be way more media support there just would be people are seeing it now with other quarterbacks um did you feel like finally

getting you know from oakland and then ending up with arizona and ending up with arians and and now with other quarterbacks. Did you feel like finally getting from Oakland and then ending up with Arizona and ending up with Arians and just having this moment where you're like, I knew I was always capable of these things and people kind of came around to your side. Did you ever feel like, not that it was like, hey, I was right, but that people, the criticism lessened and people kind of understood you and your story

and you kind of got football rewarded at the end of your career. You know, I wish I didn't feel like that, but I absolutely feel vindicated. You know, I, in my closing arguments with Mr. Brown on our last meeting, I said, I believe I'm capable of being of, of being a Superbowl champion quarterback. And I'm not capable of doing that for you. And we had our runs and we, we got close. We got with winning within a game. And I absolutely felt vindicated to go to Arizona and we won a bunch of games. We won 10 and then 12 and then 14 games. So to go somewhere else. And I literally was going from, uh, you know, when I got drafted to the Bengals, they were the, you know, they had the number one

pick in the league for reasons. They were the worst team in the league. I then went to Arizona. I think the year before they'd won two or three games and then to go to the playoffs a couple of years in a row. Um, it absolutely, there was a feeling of vindication. Um, and I didn't want that feeling that that wasn't my reason for doing it, but I knew, as you said, I was going to get crushed by the media. I knew that when I, when I decided, when I made that decision, um, that it was going to be a long, hard road. And then to, you know, to, to go to Arizona and win a bunch of games and have success offensively and, you know, statistically and as a team and all of those things combined, um, there was an absolute, um, feel like, see, that's why. So yeah, no doubt.

Before I let you go, everybody knows your brother and working with all the younger quarterbacks. Give me the best conversation that you've had with Jordan about Trevor Lawrence. Like the football geeky stuff that maybe us outsiders

would not understand as much when he talks to you about how special elements of his talent are. Yeah, I mean, I was down there geeky stuff that maybe us outsiders would not understand as much when he talks to you about how special elements of his talent are. Yeah. I mean, I was down there watching them train a couple of weeks ago and Trevor's coming off of a little cleanup in his non-throwing shoulder that he had done. But Jordan had just been talking about how smooth he was and it's so odd to see a guy that's so far from the ground and and so lanky and long be so smooth because a lot of times you see um you know you see a really buffed muscular football player and you see him run and they look they don't look as fluid they

are but they just don't look it because they're so bulky. When you see a really tall, tall, long quarterback with long levers in every direction, it's really hard to be smooth. It's really hard to look smooth. There are a lot of guys that have been smooth, but they just look too tall or too long. And for a guy that is all of six, I mean, he felt like he was taller than me. He might be six, six, um, really long legs, really long arm, a long whippy motion that the ball doesn't get delivered in a long whippy motion. The ball comes out really quick. Um, but he was spot on. I mean, the guy is, the guy is so smooth in the pocket. It's like he's six'2". But he's not 6'2". He's a whole head higher than the guys that are 6'2". So he has a great line of vision over the guys in front of him.

But he's really smooth. And his footwork is really smooth in the pocket. And I remember when he first started telling me they started training together, I was like, man, you can't be 6'66 and really smooth and fluid in the pocket. It just takes a long time to shift your feet and move your body within the pocket. And he's got that ability. He is abnormally athletic. And it may not look like it because he's so long and the hair is flopping in the wind,

but he's really, really athletic for such a long guy. Hey, before we let you go, and getting to know some of you guys that played and everything and trying to find ways to solve the pain issues, tell me what you're doing and what you're working on with some other guys because this is really interesting. Yeah, so I've, as we talked earlier, played for 15 years, had five, six, seven surgeries, have some more in my future.

But the best thing I've found is Level Select CBD. It's a topical. It's a roll-on. I've got the roll-on right here at my desk. I use this. There's a hand cream, almost like a little lotion that I've got elbow issues, neck issues, low back, knee issues. So Level Select CBD is something I use

daily, multiple times a day. I use it in the morning. If I've had a big workout in the day or I've been chasing kids or coaching practice, before I go to bed, I'll put it on my knees and it just helps me sleep and get me through that typical point in the night where I normally wake up in some pain. So the best thing I found is Level Select CBD. Like I said, I use it all the time. I partnered with this company. I liked it so much. So right now, if you log on to levelselectcbd.com,

you can type in the promo code Carson and you get 50% off. So it's a great deal right now. We're trying to promote this company and, and this company has been, um, has, has definitely eased my everyday life. No doubt. Yeah. That's awesome. There's a little Carson pop up right there in the middle of it. So, uh, yeah, just jumped right over Ricky Fowler. So he's, he's history in this thing. Uh, I appreciate it, man. I'm really happy for you. And, uh, I know a lot of the USC guys down here speak real highly of you. So there's a lot of guys that played with you.

They're like, no, man, Carson. Not that I, the way I just phrased that is if I was trying to argue you were a dick or something and I don't know you. So I didn't mean it that way. But yeah, a lot of fans down here. We go way back. We've been doing these interviews for years now, haven't we? No, we've done a couple. We've done a couple interviews for years now haven't we uh no i you know we've done a couple you know we've done a couple over the years yeah but it was it was yeah we did them i mean

shoot i we did one i think your rookie year we did one when i i think it was right about the time i was getting started too so um a little less pain but i'm gonna look into that i appreciate it thanks for having me ryan always good to catch up, man. Have a good day. The Cardinals have made a quick pick and it must mean that maybe we're going to have an quarterback with the 10th choice in the 2006 NFL draft. The Arizona Cardinals select Matt Leiner, quarterback, USC legend may have been the first pick the year before in 2005 but decided to come back with that loaded group at USC

so coming off the loss to Texas in the title game he and Vince Young were battling it out to see he'd be the first quarterback taken, Vince went number three to the Titans and Matt ended up sliding all the way down to Arizona at number 10. All right, Matt, give me your best draft story. The Heisman stories are a lot better than my draft stories, but it's okay. We'll do that with select Heisman winners next. select Heisman winners next. So I don't, I mean, the draft story just, I think I'd probably just kind of give you the whole rundown of the week and just kind of what it was like. So then in 2006,

there was only, I think five or six of us that went, that's all they invited. And it was me, Reggie, Vince Young, AJ Hawk, uh, Mario, Mario, DeBricka, Shaw, Ferguson, and Vernon Davis, I think was there at Vernon Davis. So six or seven of us. Um, and, Mario, the brick of shop, Ferguson and Vernon Davis, I think was there at Vernon Davis. So six or seven of us. Um, and you know, you're, you're there all week. You're doing all sorts of stuff. You're, you're, you're busting around town with all those guys. It was really fun, man. And, and, um, and VY and I were tight and we obviously just came off the big game. Um, but obviously the whole point is like, where do you go, especially in the top 10, especially nowadays with quarterbacks and, you know, Mario, who knows? I thought Reggie was going to go number one.

So that for me, the teams that I thought and I and I had met with were the Saints because they had Breeze. But I think that was just I mean, that was shoulder. And that was just they didn't know what they were having with them at the time. So I met, I flew out there for a visit. So I was in new Orleans. The jets privately worked me out with Mangini Schottenheimer was the offensive coordinator. Uh, Tannenbaum was the GM. They, they worked me out and, and, uh, you know, went to dinner and all that in LA for

a couple of days. They picked four saints pick two. Um, and then the Titans was the one that picked three. Jeff Fisher, USC guy, Norm Chow, offensive coordinator. Obviously that was kind of what I thought. Oakland Raiders picked seven. They also flew me out. That was when Art Schell was the coach.

And actually really cool story. I actually got to hang out with Al Davis before he passed. He put me in his office and we talked and i remember he said he's like and i quote i said if you're there at number seven which i don't think you'll be there's no way we wouldn't we wouldn't draft you oh sure enough i was there and they didn't draft me but it's fine uh but that was pretty cool uh to sit in his office and except when he lied to you did he lie to you or did did somebody else did they does anyone ever follow up on that do you ask your agent like, hey, by the way, whatever happened with Oakland?

Yeah, no. I mean, there's so many moving parts, man. Okay. So anyway, so now fast forward to the night before the draft, I'm on the phone with Norm Chow. And I think news came out, Mario was going to go to Houston, number one. And I still thought maybe I'd go to two to New Orleans. I just, you know, I hadn't heard anything from Reggie.

And Norm's on the phone with me. And he's like, he's like, Matt, he's like, I stood on the table for you. I wanted you. I told the staff, blah, blah, blah. This is the night before the draft. And McNair, Bob McNair, the owner, wanted Vince Young. He wanted the hometown guy. And I love Bob McNair.

I played in Houston. I love Houston, the whole organization. But they wanted Vince Young. He wanted the hometown guy. And I love Bob and Nair. I played in Houston. I just, I love Houston, the whole organization, but they wanted Vince Young. They wanted, they wanted, you know, the hometown kid and all that. So that's how I found out I wasn't going to Tennessee number three, the night before the draft. Norm is literally wants me, but they draft the other quarterback. It was kind of, kind of funny how it all played out. And then four, I thought I was going to New York. And then I remember when Tom Condon my agent at the time were in the draft room and you know that thing man like god it's it's a it's a blessing to be there i mean gosh like looking back but boy man is it like it's like it's high pressure in there when you don't go especially when you're

the last person picked i feel for like rogers and brady quinn and they went farther um so i don't go to you know i don't go to new york and after that i'm thinking all right it's either oakland seven and after that i have no freaking clue so oakland passes on me and then that's when i think i left the draft room just to kind of like all right kind of get my bearings and then by the way none of the players are ever drinking right like i'm just wondering has there ever been a guy that like decided after pick 15 he's just gonna start tossing a few back which would be a terrible look but no back yeah i don't think that would go well um you're in a little i mean now like i don't even know but now it's big like you were in like a little green room off the edge like with your table and you had like eight tables there and you're just sitting there

you're on your phone you're just like kind of kind of like this, like, dude, what's happening? What am I, you know, what's happening. And then, um, I don't know if you know this. So, so nine was Buffalo. They ended up picking Dante Wittner, the safety, apparently from what I heard, Oh, nine was Detroit. Nine was Detroit. I think they went, um, Ernie Sims, who I just, Ernie Sims linebacker. Yeah. So, and Denver picked 11,

right. And they picked Cutler right after me. So apparently, uh, Denver was trying to trade up to nine to draft me at nine. They were trying to move up because they didn't know what Buffalo, Arizona was going to do. So they were trying to trade with,

uh, Detroit at nine. Cause they were going to pick from what I heard, either myself or Jay, whoever was there, whoever felt to them. And I guess it was like down to like the last like 30 seconds or something. That's what that's the story I heard is like Shanahan wanted to trade up to get me. Detroit pulled out the very last minute. And that's kind of what happened right there. minute. And that's kind of what happened right there. So then Arizona due to 10, like I met with them at the, uh, combine when they do like the, the, not like the individual meetings that are like 15, 20 minutes in a little hotel room. Um, at least back then you would do like, you would

sit out in like a courtyard and I don't know if you've been there and you've seen that, but like you just, it's almost like round Robbins, like speed dating. You go like five minutes with a coach. That's it. So I spent like five minutes with one of their coaches. That was it. And sure enough, I get the call at 10 from Denny Green. And he was pumped, man. It was, it was fricking awesome, man. And then, and then like in hindsight, right?

Like in all honesty, obviously it didn't work out there, but like, you know, in hindsight, I was, it was close to home. I had a, I had a baby at the time. Like it just all worked out like when life worked out in the end of the day. But then I had no interaction with Arizona. I thought I was going to three other places. It just it never when it never really works out the way you want, unless you're like, you know, unless you're that number one pick and you just can kind of guarantee it so uh but happy man i was happy i went there and and then my agents trying to sell me like arizona's shitty man it's like their shitty organization at the time you know they don't you know free agency you know at that time they just didn't pay players

you know whatever but then i'm thinking well you got fitzgerald and you got anquan bolden man so um you know those guys were freaking awesome to throw to for the four years I was there. So, uh, it was, it was good, man. It was good. Can I ask you, and I know this is probably an annoying topic, but like, cause it doesn't work out. Everybody wants to come up with reasons. It didn't work out. Right. And I remember, you know, I'm still older than you, but I'm at least mentally, like, I just look at things differently. And I just remember thinking like when the hot tub picture comes out and they're like, Oh, that's why it doesn't work out. And I remember being on like national radio going, Hey, if he's not good, he's not good.

But like, let's not start playing the results because he's in a hot tub with people. Like how brutal was that to deal with? Dude, brutal, man. Like here's the, I'll tell you the story, the story behind that. And I don't think I've ever actually told. So I was, I would like say this, first of all, I looking back, like, I probably, and look, I think you could ask any of my teammates in that era. And I would think they love me as a teammate. I mean, I would think that I love like my teammates. I hung out with them all. We had a lot of fun on and off the field. Like I was, I wasn't, I was never that guy. Like I, that's why I would say like, dude, my team loved me.

I worked hard there. I don't think when I look back at it and I know this, like I was never like in love with the process of football. I never played football growing up. And now when I'm older, I can really look back and think like, I didn't eat, sleep, breathe football. I just didn't. I was baseball. I played two years in high school. I was pretty good because I was tall and I could throw and then USC. And then like, I love playing the game, but like at that

level, if you don't eat, sleep, breathe football, or you're just not freakishly talented and athletic and you have a hose and you can run, then you're just going to get passed by at some point by the next great thing. And that was probably in hindsight, the big picture. I worked hard. I did what was asked of me. I get up more. I did all those things. It just wasn't ingrained in me from a young age. And I think that probably had a reason with just a lot of this stuff, how it transpired. Uh, I don't think it was a talent issue by any means. I think I was talented enough. I think, you know, I, my rookie year I played well. Um, I, I just, I just didn't take advantage of opportunities. I think when I got in games later in my career, I got hurt in Houston, which was the best I ever felt. Um, and the best team, you know,

best team I was probably on, even though we went to the Superbowl in Arizona, that Houston team was fricking awesome. Um, anyways, let's get back to the hot tub story. So I'm like, literally it's March madness. I'll never forget. I had a couple buddies in town. It was off season, a couple of buddies in town. I have like five or six of my teammates over. And I have this dude there who was like the club promoter in the town but i'm telling you like march madness is my house my backyard and i've been like 10 15 people it wasn't even a rager and um and like god i think like antrell roll was there like all my boys on the team man like we're just like we're just like, we're having beer. Like we're literally playing beer pong. Like nothing. I'm 20 shit. I'm 23 years old. And this club promoter guy who I was friends with

like brings over like a group of girls. And I was like, all right, like, well, I didn't think anything of it because it was like, we weren't just, it wasn't this big thing. And sure enough, you know, obviously fast forward where, you know, we're drinking stuff. And obviously the pictures like it was just poor judgment at the time. But like, I'm just thinking like, this is the whole reason why I chose not to go to the club because I don't want to be that. I want to stay home in the off season. I'm in my house. I'm good.

I'm safe. You know, and honestly, like I wasn't even really drinking that much. That's the kind of sad part. I always tell everybody, I'm like, shit, I wish I would have been drunk or at least had like 200 people there at the house. And at least if I would have known what was going to happen. So I ended up taking the picture in the hot tub. I'm sitting there, two of my teammates on the other side, by the way, we're just literally hanging out. The beer bomb picture was not a good look. I probably shouldn't have done that. But like,

you know, I don't know. I mean, I'm at the house, like that was probably the one. And then I'll never forget, dude, I was so like, I'm thinking the house. Like that was probably the one. Um, and then I'll never forget, dude, I was so like, I'm thinking the whole time, like I did it the right way. Like literally, like I was safe. I wasn't out there partying. Like I'm home, like consciously made that I'll never forget. I consciously made that decision. I went to a movie that night. I'll never forget. I was in a movie that night or maybe the next night, I think it was the next night. And I remember I look at my phone during the movie and I get like the, did you see the internet? Like that was back. It was like that. It wasn't like, did you see Twitter or whatever? It was like, did you see the internet? And I'm

like, and dude, I was like, like my heart sank, man. Like I'm actually getting chills just thinking about it. Cause I, I was like, it's the worst feeling that it's the worst. It's the worst feeling in the world. And I was thinking like, Oh my God, what did I do? I didn't do anything wrong. And then I see, and it was that whole website. I'm not even going to give credit to the name of the website. I don't even want you to say it. And it was that website and I'm like, like, what do I do? And we kind of did a little bit of damage control. And like, dude, for like two or three months that off season, I like, I lay, I didn't like, I was like depressed. I didn't go out. I was, I laid low. Cause I was like, Wisenhunt had just got, you know, drafted. He hated that shit. And that, and that was another thing. Like it just, they could just, it didn't get off on the right foot. And really, I really didn't even do anything. You know, I just got, I got screwed over man by a girl who you know i think sold the pictures to the website or gave

them up you know and it was like and that's how that all went down man and that was like why i was like this is just sucks dude like i can't like i can't do anything right and then it was like an uphill battle just to you know i just i was screwed then. And that was it. And, um, yeah, now I laugh at it, you know, cause it's like, and I don't care, man. Like now that's like, dude, I literally, it's harmless. Like, but that was kind of like right when the whole picture thing, I mean, that was before like social media, but it was like the pictures and like the gossip websites and all that shit. So, uh, dude, just, just like depression, depression man i went like hiding i remember i went to palm springs and played golf like i was just like i was hiding out for like two months it's miserable

all because you were at your house in a hot tub with four girls i was at my house right yeah and like dude my teammates were there it wasn't like and i wasn't even partying like that's the thing like i there's some other pictures on there i look look pretty wasted back in the day. And like, yeah, I was probably out like whatever, dude. But that was like, I was 19 years old people, you know, it just, like I said, it goes back to like, I just, you know, it was just, I, you know, just some bad luck, man. It was one of the first times working in the media where, you know, at least nationally for me, cause I'd only been at it a couple of years and I'm surrounded by talk shows going, well, does this prove he's not a leader? Does this prove and when you have you end up things aren't going the way that people would

expect for the 10th overall pick it's like oh well you know he doesn't have his head in the right place it's just all these different things and it made me despise the job it made me not like look things are good i've had a nice run but i just don't like that there's so many people that do what i do that would connect all of these dots as if the good quarterbacks have never been right like I know as if all the hall of famers were guys that wouldn't get into a hot tub especially your house with women in it dude I've heard I mean yeah you're absolutely right it's just man it was perception it was just it was a bad it was bad optics is a bad look I I understood and again my history of i think i was already kind of painted in that picture because of sc hollywood i listen like i probably

made a few decisions like i look back like i regret i don't regret a lot to be honest with you like i don't regret that night yeah i regret it but like i didn't do anything wrong like i regret for all the things people could or couldn't have done of all yeah that's your worst thing give me a break. I mean, you know, there's a few things that I would do over again, but at the end of the day, like, shit, man, like, I had fun. I worked hard. My teammates love me.

You know, once that stuff happened, I kind of, like, regrouped and said, I remember talking to Wiz and Hunt, and Todd Haley was my offensive coordinator, and I was like, all right, what, like, like, what do I need to do? Like, what do I need to do to like help me, you know, whatever. And I worked my ass off, man. I came back from that injury. I worked my ass off. Um, you know, I, they, they saw it, you know, Kurt just happened to fricking resurrect his hall of fame career in those last three years. And then, like I said, in Houston, I Kubiak best coach in Houston, I, Kubiak, best coach I ever played for, man, Kubiak, Greg Knapp, those guys, they really developed me, even in my, what was that, fifth and sixth year. Like, I, like, like, I learned the quarterback,

but it's like, you know, like, I played with Orlovsky, right? I played in Houston with Orlovsky, and he could tell you, like, like, we learned so much from that, like, from that system and how Kubiak coaches quarterbacks and all of those things. That's why you see like Shanahan and like all of the tree of Mike Shanahan, Kubiak, like that, the offensive play calling it's wizardry for quarterbacks, man, the way they teach that. So I like Jimmy Grock. I mean, just like it's so great. So I really like mesh well with that. And then, you know, I broke my collarbone when I started when shot went out and that's the, I tell you, that's the best I ever felt confidence wise, physically. We had a, who was it? We had Arian fostered Andre. I mean, we were stacked and that was it. And after that, I played one more year.

And at that point I was just trying to survive, man. I was just trying to get a paycheck, survive and play as long as possible. So it's crazy, man. That's a great story, man. I really appreciate you telling us that. He's a Super Bowl champion and a six-time Pro Bowler. But before that, he went undrafted in the 1998 draft, despite being nearly a top-ten player, at his position in the pre-draft process. He's one of the best storytellers ever.

It is offensive lineman Jeff Saturday. Jeff, give me your best draft day story. Yeah, listen, this was pretty remarkable. I was at Kenan-Flagler Business School at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. And at the spring of your senior year, they bring in all these companies to interview you for potential jobs when you graduate. I had been given my, quote, draft status or whatever. This was before the combine. And everybody said, you're a second, third, fourth, maybe later center. And so that's the round you're going to be picked in. So I take no interviews from all those companies that come in. And I decide, hey, I'm going to go all in on this football. I'm going to train and get myself ready for the combine and our pro days. And then I'll

go off and play football and life will be great. And so the draft day comes and after the combine, my stock had dropped because at the combine, they measured my arms. And listen, you're in there like a bunch of cattle, right? Like you're standing on the walls and nothing but your underwear and you stand up on the stage and they measure like your hands and then they measure my arm. And when they measured my arm, literally the whole scouting room, their faces are up looking, they all put their head down and start like scratching, you know, down on their pads of paper. I was like, well, that's probably not a good thing. And, uh, needless to say that was like the worst thing, right? They're like,

the guy's got, he's got super short arms. He's not going to be able to match up with, with nose tackles in the NFL. So I go from like being the third rank center to like you said, top 10 or outside the top 10, whatever, whatever it was. So draft day comes. And at that time, you know, the first round was like the whole day. And then they would do, you know, the following rounds the next two days. And so, um, I, I, nothing happens the first day. Well, the second day begins and, you know, Mel Kuyper does his, you know, Kuyper's next up or whatever. And,

and I was like the third center, I think Kroos goes and someone else goes. And, and so, you know Kuyper's next up or whatever and and I was like the third center I think Kroos goes and and someone else goes and and so you know guys are starting to get picked up and uh you know guys start going and Kuyper keeps putting me up there as as best available and so that round goes and well then I start getting phone calls phones are ringing right so they your teams call and say, Hey, we're going to pick you next. You know, we're, we pick in 10 picks, but you're our guy, you know, be next to your phone. We're going to call you. We're excited to have you, you know, be ready. Literally that pick would come up and someone else's name would flash. And I was like, are you kidding me? So, so I'm calling my agent. I'm like, what is going on? They're going to get you.

Sometimes it happens. Somebody fell to them or somebody traded some pick and don't worry about it. Well, this goes on literally the entire day. And I'm getting down. And now you're in the sixth round and seventh round. And I'm getting these calls regularly now. And every time, I kid you not, you know, nothing. And finally about the, I think it was the beginning of the seventh round team started calling me and telling

me, Hey, we're not going to draft you, but we want to pick you up as a, as an undrafted free agent. And then when I tell you I was crushed, I mean, I would, it was like a gut punch, man. I mean, I could not believe what I'm watching and I'm watching these guards, you know, slash centers who are getting drafted that I thought, man, I'll play circles around these guys. Right. But you know, they're six, four and they're, you know, 305 pounds and I'm six, two and two 85. And you know, and, and I mean, I am, I am literally devastated. And, and the crazy part is by this time I'm calling my agent. Well, my agent had Greg Ellis, who was, I think the eighth pick of the draft for the Dallas Cowboys. Well, they're on the jet going down to meet Jerry. So I can't even get my agent to figure out like which team I

should sign with. And it's freaking nuts, man. I mean, I'm having all these teams call and I'm telling them, well, I don't know yet. And they said, well, if you don't say yes, we're going to move on to the next guy. You know, you're on our list. And I had no idea how the NFL worked. So I didn't realize they're just filling rosters at this point, right? They don't even really care. They're just, you know, his job, this guy's job is to call this clown from North Carolina and just see if he'll come in and be a camp body was basically what the calls were. You know what I mean? And so I'm saying no, not knowing that I'm literally just off the list. You ain't calling them back. They've moved on to the next guy who can come in.

And so by the end of the night, I've told everybody, no, I don't have a job. I'm literally sitting there. My roommate in college, Nate Obgood-Shittick, had never started at North Carolina, and he had signed with the Giants and got a signing bonus. And I started up a two-time all ACC center and I don't have a job. And I was just, I mean, I was literally devastated. My girlfriend at the time, who is now my wife, you know, she's crying. I mean, she's devastated for me. She's like, are you okay? I'm like, I don't know what I want to do. Like, I can't believe this has, has happened. Um, so, you know, flash forward a few

days, my agent gets in touch with the Baltimore Ravens and, um, Wally Williams, who was their franchise player. Okay. So see, you'll hear that the right way. Their franchise player, who's a center for them is holding out. So they signed me to come in. And, uh, so I'm now a Baltimore Raven and, and, uh, I go into Baltimore and it's like, I walked into a forest and it's a forest of trees and I'm a shrub, bro. Like I am six, two, I'm looking at Jonathan Ogden. I'm looking at Zeus, you know, Orlando Brown, who's his son now actually plays right. I'm looking at Jonathan Ogden. I'm looking at Zeus, you know, Orlando Brown, whose son now actually plays right. I'm looking at Jeff Blackshear. All these dudes are monsters, right? And I'm like, I feel like,

I feel in EPS just walking in the room. I'm like, what? This is not going to go long. So ultimately I'm there for a cup of coffee. Kirk Ferentz, the other head coach of Iowa, he was the offensive line coach. And he tells me, Saturday, you're going to have a great career in the NFL. You're going to do this. Literally the day after he told me that, the Ravens cut me. So it was like, man, welcome to the NFL. No draft.

You get cut after the coach tells you you're good. And I'm literally out of football, man, almost an entire year. And the same roommate that I told you about who was with the Giants, he was on their practice squad. And so Nate Hobgood-Chittick gets picked up by the Indianapolis Colts. And, you know, if you get picked off the practice squad, you have like a mandatory minimum of three games up on the active roster. And so, you know, I'm celebrating it for him because I'm like, man,

you're rich, you know, you get three weeks NFL pay. And I'm working at electric supply, electric supply company of North Carolina. And we're talking about, you know, life, you know, thinking that football is over for me and I'm fired up for him. Well, he goes in and meets Bill Polian because Bill Pullian quote had an open door policy unquote, right? Like, what does that mean? Like, like Bill Pullian, you know, Nate out good shit because like 53 and a half of a 53 man roster, right? Like Bill Pullian brought him in. Cause some, some starter had a tweak,

Tammy, you know what I mean? So Nate go, Nate goes in man and literally tells Pullian, he said, I've the Giants, and now I've been here for a few weeks. I'm telling you, my roommate is better than all these guys. Will you give him a chance? And Bill Pulley was like, you know, I was actually with the Panthers and scouted Jeff. And I called him a rolly-polly, right? He's as round as he is tall. So, you know, but he's like, yeah, maybe I'll give him a shot. And, and that's honest to God, how I got a shot in Indy, uh, was because my roommate,

Nate, how good shit, you know, had, had, had the guts to walk in that room and, and speak on my behalf, man. Six Pro Bowls later and a Super Bowl. That's awesome, Jeff. Thanks, man. Appreciate you, brother. This next draft day story is personal to me. It's a guy I've worked with for a long time. Spent more time with him than maybe anybody over like an eight-year stretch. Steve Coughlin, you don't know that name because he is five star Steve Stanford, Steve, one of the top recruits in the country coming out of high school quarterback,

tight end, you name it. Notre Dame wanted to play QB UNC wanted him. He didn't want Penn state. He ends up out at the farm at Stanford blocks for four years, but the talent was still there. Undeniable. So what was, what was the draft day process like for you?

Give me your best story. Well, Ryan, uh, going in, you knew Bubba Franks was going to be a first rounder. You knew Anthony Peck was rumored to be in the first round. I'm not talking to you about the fucking draft. I wasn't drafted, you asshole. Our research department failed me. I apologize. Thank you.

Have a great day. Our research department failed me. I apologize. Thank you. Have a great day. Coming out of Arizona, Teddy Bruschi was selected in the third round, 86 overall in 1996 by the New England Patriots. And that's when Bill Parcells was running the show. Teddy joins us now. Okay, Bruschi, I've heard you tell some of these stories before,

but what's your favorite memory, the lead-up to the draft or any of the great stories you have from that time? I get the lead-up, okay. I think the lead-up just was like my very draft day. If you ask any player in the league, they'll know what number they were and who was on the phone. Unless, I mean, even if you're a guy in the green room, there's someone that calls first, you know, and you always remember. And so I remember seeing, I got drafted by the ticker underneath on ESPN. As I'm walking, I'm in there with my family. It's the third round. We're with my family. It's the third

round. We're tired of watching this, the 86 pick. And I walk by and like it flashes on the bottom of the screen. And I'm like, I think I just got drafted by the Patriots with the 86 pick. And everybody's like, what? And so it was a flash, though. But then it went back to one, two, three. So you got to wait all the way to the 86 pick. But then the phone rang. And my guy on the other line was Bill Parcells. And I didn't get any chance to have any type of comeback in the conversation. It was like, Teddy, this is Bill Parcells. We're going to play at linebacker and special teams. Here's Al Groh.

And that was the positional defensive coordinator. So then I talked to Al. But that was my number, 86. The conversation was with Parcells and Al Groh. And the ticker was my sort of draft, my draft guy. So I remember getting off the phone and everybody was like, hey, hey, what do you say? It's great news. And I said, they're going to play me a linebacker.

They said, that's great. And they said, what's wrong? And I said, I don't know how to play linebacker. And with me, I was just laughing. I was like, oh, well, I'll go and see how it goes. Oh, no, Ryan, it went pretty good. I ended up learning. It did go well, but it's a great point because that desert swarm, that defense,

and for those that may have forgotten, like Teddy and this group in Arizona, this was a big deal. It was a national story because of the personnel that you had on that front. And you had – how big were you at that point? Were you bigger in college than you were in the pros? Well, man, I had to be 6'1", 245. I was the same size. I mean, that's the whole thing.

Maybe it was the pads. Yeah, it was the pads. I had a big neck roll and the pads and all that stuff. That was old school, man. That's how you look tougher, you know? But, no, I mean, shoot. Tied Derek Thomas's career sack record with 52. I mean, it was my numbers. I mean, I was in the backfield the whole time. I just didn't even know what to do when they asked me to drop. So I was 6'1", 245. I wasn't getting any bigger. And so they

had to find a place for me. And it was like, do I play Will? Do I play Mike? Let's try you at Sam. And while you're learning all this, they'll make a package called Cactus. And our girl came up with this package called Cactus. I thought it was cool, but I was sort of a sub rusher. I went as a defensive tackle, rushed. I actually got two sacks in the Super Bowl from playing defensive tackle. And so that's how it all started. I could do all of that and play special teams while I learned to play linebacker. And then, I mean, shoot, 13 years, I ended up figuring it out. You did.

Okay, the other story that I think is the funniest, because anybody that gets to know you at this point in your life, how buttoned up you are, is did you end up, I hope you're going to tell the story again, but didn't you end up in somehow like the behavior program of the nfl before you even showed up because of something that happened back on campus oh no that was during pete's years no no no i know this was after this was after this was after the draft and i was in a bar fight or something like it was my third year or something like that a security guard he took me down basically I sort of got my ass kicked but uh uh you're in the you were in the bar and there

was violence so you had to go into the program which was you know drug testing and all that stuff and then counseling so I did all that there was that phase in my life yes before I calmed down a little bit all us football players usually good ones, have a couple screws loose, and I definitely did. But I ended up getting all that straightened out too, Ryan. Come on, buddy. I know. So it was just a bar.

It wasn't a concert or anything like that. It was just the security guy. What were you guys doing? Me and my boy were playing pool, and we just got a little rowdy. We got a little rowdy. We got a little rowdy. We had to be calmed down a little bit, and we weren't one for calming down at that point. But it got a little escalated, I'd say.

And, yeah, I had to learn my lesson from that one. Look at you now, just a great member of society. Yeah. With the first selection in the 2001 NFL draft, the Atlanta Falcons select Michael Vick, quarterback, Virginia Tech. Mike Vick goes number one overall that year where San Diego had the pick. They ended up with Drew Brees, but we'll start there with Mike Vick goes number one overall that year where San Diego had the pick they ended up with Drew Breeze but we'll start there with Mike Vick leading up to the draft did you think you were going to San Diego yeah I was looking at houses in San Diego um I was really the whole time yeah the

whole time I was house shopping um you know I remember places from when I went out to visit um and you know I was just looking forward to going back. I wouldn't have spent like three days in San Diego and I thought it was a lot. It was a lot, uh, from the time I, uh, you know, announced that I was coming out into the day of the draft day before the draft the night before, actually 10, 10 PM the night before, you know, we was just all sitting in the room talking. And I got a call saying that you might be traded. And, you know, when you get a call like that, you know,

a lot of emotions go through your body. You don't know what to think. All of a sudden, it of a sudden it's like, now it's about the city of Atlanta. It's about, you know, it's about something totally different. And I'm like,

but it's closer to home. That's the only thing I could think of. So, and my family would be able to travel and see me play. And it became a blessing within itself. So my agent was Andre Colonna. Okay. From Octagon Sports.

But yeah, I remember his voice on the phone. Mike, Mike, I think you're getting traded. I think you're getting traded to Atlanta. I'm like, wow, since when? He's like, man, since like two minutes ago. They called. They want to move down from five to one. I'm like, well, as long as I'm still going number one,

it's all good. I'm happy. You know, and yeah, I'm still going number one, it's all good. I'm happy. You know, and, yeah, man, they,

you know, you can sign the night before. So, we, I communicated with Coach Reeves, and he said, we're going to take you number one. So,

I walked into the draft knowing that I was going to Atlanta. It was a, it was a done deal. It was a lot. What did Reeves say to you when he said he was taking you one? He was like, Michael, we think the world of you. We think you're a heck of a football player.

We think you can come here and learn behind Chris Chandler. And, you know, your career will be as serious as you want it to be. I remember those words. And I was just like, Coach, I'm going to work as hard as I can to be the best that, you know, you've had since John Elway. And those are my exact words. And, you know, that's what I push for. Did Chandler work well with you?

Or was he like, I don't even know what the hell to do with this guy. Like, this guy's so different than anyone before. No, we worked well together. I learned a lot from Chris. I learned how to prepare. I learned how to prepare. I learned how to study. It was a lot at first. It was overwhelming

because Chris was so smart that, you know, coach often said a lot of verbiage in it. Like, his play calling, his long play calls, you know, King Wright trip,

Z Sadie, B234 quarterback pass, Wingate Y6. That's one play. You know, so I'm like, and sometimes in no huddle, we have to call two plays. And then it'll be, you know, gun ace left, you know, pass 300, something. And two plays that you got to call in the huddle. And coach usually just get a play to Chris, and Chris would match the formation with the play.

He'd say, ah, coach, just give me the play. I'll match the formation with it. And that's how much he knew what offense. That's how sharp he was. And I was like, I want to get to that point one day. So, you know, it was hard enough having to learn to call the plays. There was one thing sitting there watching a 12-year veteran tell the coach, just give me the play,

and I'll match the formation with the play. When I'm learning the offense and I'm seeing that, I'm looking at it like I'm never going to play. I'll never get on his level. But, you know, just as the season went on, I just kept, you know, piecing it together like a puzzle and not trying to move so fast. I knew he was the

starter for the season and I had time to sit and learn. By week 15, 16, when he went down against the Dolphins, I went in and basically went ham. The next week, I started against the St. Louis Rams, greatest show on

turf. It was a tough ball game for them to get us out of there. The next year, they made me the starter, but I had learned through the process of being around him that I could play the game. Was there a part, and granted, look, you're this big-time player on the college scene. You're a must-watch for all of us, people that didn't even care about Virginia Tech. All of a sudden, they're like, look, I don't care what you're doing tonight. Like I'm watching Vic play. And so you're, you're used to a certain level of fame, but when you look at Atlanta and the way the city supports its teams and knowing that you're a black quarterback in Atlanta too, was, was there another level of like, holy shit, this is a huge deal that maybe even

was overwhelming to you. Yeah, I didn't understand it, Dan. The only thing on my mind was not being labeled a bust. I didn't care less about the city because the city wasn't going to think anything about me if I didn't live up to that number one draft status.

So, I understood the magnitude of where I was at. I just stayed away from all that. Most importantly, my career was everything. You know, I didn't want to be labeled a bust, and I wanted to win football games and change the culture, and that's what we was able to do. Hey, Mike, enjoy watching you on Sundays,

and again, thanks for hanging out with us. No doubt. Appreciate you having me on, man. Anytime. Before I get to life advice, I'm just going to do this right now because I've had a few people ask and reach out and ask if anything's wrong with me or if I'm okay, because I haven't tweeted in a while. The reason I haven't tweeted is I got hacked about three weeks ago. And apparently, when you get hacked on Twitter, that's just it. Like, hey, man, hope you had a good run, because we're not going to help now. This segment is not to complain about Twitter.

This segment is just to point out the bullshit with some of the tech stuff that happens. Now, look, I work for a tech company. But you know what? When I turn on Spotify, I get to listen to podcasts, and I get to listen to music and it seems to work out all right. And if there's an issue, there's an email I can hit somebody up with. And it's not just Twitter. There's some of these companies and I'll go on, you know, I like to watch the financial stuff and I'll see some CEO come on or somebody will talk about their company.

I watched somebody from a dating company and they were like, oh, you're a billionaire now. What's next? And the person was saying, well, we're going to get into food services. It's like, I'd like to make out tonight, but I'd love a burrito as well. So I think a lot of this stuff sounds great. And a lot of you in the tech world, some of you are doing incredible things and you're really impressive. And then I think a lot of you just wanted to move out to San Francisco and rent a McLaren on somebody else's dime and wear a vest and sit on a fucking panel. All right. Because I've watched enough of you to know that some of you are real, like every industry. And a lot of you were just kind of playing the part.

You up talk at the end of things. You'll say stuff like, you know, peer to peer, we want to streamline this experience. We want to be the Uber of fill in the blank. And I've watched enough where I go, yeah, I don't really know what this is, but what I can tell you about Twitter is it was actually something that worked. It was real. It's been 10 plus years. And when it started at the beginning, people were like, I don't know, like, is this going to be something? And it is something and whatever version of it is, it's worked. And certainly for my industry, um, other dude, I don't even know how successful Twitter would be if it weren't for media members just being on it all of the time,

because I think famous people just aren't really involved with it enough to be like, Hey, I'm going to spend my day checking out to see what people think of Rosillo's Thunder takes. But I got locked out, saw it immediately, said, hey, I'm locked out. And then that's just it. And that's what blows my mind about some of these, the valuations of some of these companies were, okay, yep, you guys are starting to monetize some different things. And it always reminds me of my, one of my favorite books, that Chaos Monkeys book where the guy who was like in the doors, in the main meetings with Zuckerberg and everybody else with Facebook in the beginning, where they're trying to monetize it. And they're sitting there selling fake likes to Starbucks for

thousands and thousands of dollars where they're in the room going, Hey, we can't, we probably can't build our, our financial structure long-term around selling fake likes to companies so that their Starbucks page on Facebook doesn't look stupid because they don't have any likes because the page just started up. So companies are actually paying for that kind of stuff. And I think all of us can sit back, ears removed and be like, that's weird. That worked out. But the same thing with Twitter where I'm like, so wait, you like some of these other companies where if you have food delivered and you're like, yep, screwed it up again. All right. Well, can I, is there any, can I interact with anyone? No, no one really works here. We do marketing and we wear vests on panels. You're like, all right, but like something's

wrong. Is there anyone I can talk to Twitter? There's no one. That's it. You just go, Hey, I got locked out. Okay. Send us your information. It should take a few days. That's it. It's just been three weeks. And I'm fine with not having it. I know I need it for the perception of whether or not I'm doing well in the business. And for a couple other things that I have in the works, like that's going to be an important thing. It's how somebody like me gets judged.

Where if I had a really successful podcast, but had like 50,000 followers, people would be like, what the hell's wrong with him? In a weird way, I should probably have way more considering I was on ESPN forever and I'm doing pretty well now. I just don't, I don't really care about it that much, but I know it's a necessary part of what I do. And I also know the bullshit part of it when it was a lot easier, I think, to buy fake followers because I know of a few people and I know that we were judged at least internally. It wasn't the entire factor, but I'm sure when ESPN was putting together all the reasons why they want to pay somebody a certain amount and not pay somebody else, your social media following was a big part of it. And I have resentment towards a couple of guys. I know for a fact,

they've got great opportunities and great deals and their follower count was total fucking bullshit. But guess what? Like we always say on the podcast, we learn about how things are more and more full of shit or reading about anything in politics. You go, hey, these are the rules. So either sign up and play along or go do something else. So I can't really complain because I signed up for this. This is what it is. But it does seem to hammer home the point that there's so much misinformation and misunderstanding

about what some of these companies even are that when you can't do something as simple as, hey, can someone get back to me or am I just done now? Like whatever level I reached you, yeah, you didn't beat the boss that level. And now because you get a hacked and somebody changed the email and no, nothing even happened. Cause I caught it immediately. That's it. It's just over. So I'm fine. But, um, that's why I haven't tweeted in a month or a couple weeks, three weeks, I think. Follow me at, I'm just kidding. All right, life advice. So Rudy, it sounds like you're chuckling back there.

Was I fair? I think I was stern, but fair. I think it was more than fair. I just want, is your life better? I mean, I feel like that's kind of the dream now. It's like, oh man, I'll deal with Twitter. Like everybody. Oh, I definitely wouldn't do it again. If I, I know I need it because of a couple of pitches that I've had. And then it came up, it was like, oh, he has, you know, this kind of following, whatever. And like, look, my following

isn't even that good. Cause I'm not, I'm not that engaged with it. Now I respect some friends of mine that have built a career off of it by going, this is how I just get myself out there and constantly tweet out stuff and observations. I get that part of it. going, this is how I just get myself out there and constantly tweet out stuff and observations. I get that part of it. I didn't need it as much because I was on TV every day, but I don't, I don't miss it.

I definitely don't miss it. I don't, I'm not like, oh man, I wonder, you know, like, Hey,

tweet. I, I still like Devante Smith. I hope it works out. And then, you know, Big Ten guy goes, fuck you. What about the dude at Minnesota? You know, like there's no part of me that's like, you know, I need that. I need that again.

Because for the most part, I rarely was going through it. The news part sucks because there'll be some new stuff. And then usually once every few days, I'd run across some kind of thing, some piece of information that might inspire a segment. But I feel like the whole industry, those of us that are on air are talking for a living or on your TV. All of us owe the audience a massive apology for the last decade because Twitter's made us worse at our jobs.

There's nobody that's better because of it. We're all worse because we started talking in a way where we were talking to specific's nobody that's better because of it. We're all worse because we started talking in a way where we were talking to specific responses because we all fucking look at it. And you would start to see guys like, I couldn't believe it. Guys would have the tweet deck up during a show. And it wasn't just, hey, commercial break, let me check my phone, which is what everybody was doing. It was, I'm going to look at this as I'm talking. There's no way. There's no way. If you were writing a chapter for a book and an editor were over your shoulder going, I don't know where that sentence is going, you would suck at writing.

The process would be terrible. So then you would start writing out a sentence kind of ahead of time to avoid some of the counters to it that aren't even there yet because your thought isn't even complete. And that's the thing. Like a tweet is not a college course graduate paper here. It is just an observation you added in. So I never really even got it that bad. I've certainly had my moments like anybody else that's talking in public for long enough.

I never, I didn't wake up and go, oh, I'm so bummed out today because people were mad at me on Twitter. But those of us that complained about it all the time, oh, I'm treated so poorly. All right. We get it, man. I mean, it sucks. I'm treated so poorly. All right. We get it, man. I mean, it sucks. I'm sorry that's happening to you. We get it.

But we obsess on it on our side. And yet there's so many of you that are listening and watching us all the time that don't have anything to do with any of it, have never even signed up or signed up once and have never looked at it. I don't know if that number is true that 90% of the population doesn't have it or like 10% of the population has it and another 10% of that 10% is the one that uses it daily. I don't know if that's exaggeration or not, but I'm sure it's not completely unfounded. And so I've always felt like over the years, we've done the audience a disservice by those

of us on air obsessing over, oh, so-and-so said this and this was that and someone said this about me and all this. I've done the audience a disservice by those of us on air obsessing over, oh, so-and-so said this, and this was that, and someone said this about me and all this. I've done it. I've done it. I'd like to think I haven't obsessed about it, but it's not, I don't know. I don't think that's why you're signing up to listen to anything. I don't think that's why you're tuning into any radio show or you're going to watch any of the panel shows, but we've acted like it's this, the media is so consumed by it. And it's so much of our life when you wake up, first thing you check, last thing you look at, and it's this cycle of hours on it. I definitely don't miss it, but I think it's made all of us that talk for a living, certainly about sports, but I see it even

on the other shows. You know, Kramer can't get through a fucking segment without complaining about how twitter treats him that was a while ago i think he's cleaned it up a bit but eventually you're like hey dude pick some stocks i don't care that people were mean to you about the eagles rant over i know you had a point there saruti but i just bulldozed right over you. No, you're fine. I think we got into the trap, I think, of some shows where they would do, hey, what's trending on Twitter today? All right, that's going to be our rundown. And that's a scary proposition, too, because you're right.

If it's 10% of people that have Twitter, most of those people that listen to your show have no idea what's even going on on Twitter and don't care. Look, I love Greenberg and I love Golik. Those guys have been awesome to me at every turn. When they would do, hey, we're trending again this morning, you're like, it's fucking 6 a.m. on the East Coast. What else would possibly

be trending other than what you guys are talking about right now? It's dark out. But, but, it was smart. Because then other suits would be like, like oh those guys are trending again today you'd be like well who else was

a security guard anyway all right let's do life advice here. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Oh, I don't know this one. I'll just do it. I'll just do it because maybe I can help. Maybe I can't, but it's titled to sell or hold on real estate debt in life. Here we go. 37 year old male, six, three, 200 sweet, 90% body fat, not as sweet, decent amount of hair left. Oh, the line is moving back. Okay. We got it, dude. It goes like four lines and describe himself. I bought a new build single family home three years ago, exactly. It goes like four lines in describing himself. I bought a new build single

family home three years ago exactly, three years ago exactly, in the outside suburb of Phoenix on a whim. I lived in New York, was visiting my sister in Phoenix, and being that I couldn't afford to purchase in New York, decided to buy next to her. I thought I'd move back to New York, but ended up loving my new build, then got my dog, and here we are three years later, still living in Phoenix, never made it back to New York. Problem is I'm still single and live in the outermost suburbs of Phoenix, West Valley, not Scottsdale suburbs. So you're not loving the area that you're living in because you're not near Scottsdale and you're single and 37.

I don't know. If I were you, I'd be in Scottsdale tomorrow with those stats. Anyway, I don't want to be in Arizona long-term because the summers are awful. I couldn't agree with you more. I don't know how you folks do it there. I like Arizona. I like the Scottsdale thing, different areas.

How you guys do the summer where I'll be like, well, what do you do? You're like, well, you just sit inside with the air conditioning. Well, when do you play golf? Like early or late? Well, what about pickup hoops? Not in the middle of the day, unless you want to die. I'm like, all right, well, then I don't know. I don't know how I could do it.

Some people like it. Some people like that dry heat. They say it's a dry heat, Kyle. Have you heard that? Oh, I heard that. I mean, listen, it's a real thing. Trust me. You like the dry heat. I like it out here in California. You like it out here. Yes. Right. Yes. Totally different world. Totally different world. Okay. So some people like it, whatever I'm with, if it's bothering you now. So let's see. I'm with if it's bothering you now. So let's see. Oh, the diversity is lacking as well. So he doesn't want to live there anymore. He says, should I get outside of this insane market right now? I would

stand to make about $125,000 after paying the agent. Then I'd use about $25,000 to $35,000 to pay off credit cards. Jesus, dude. One loan, possibly my car loan. This would put you in a position of great cash flow and the ability to bank the rest until I find where I want to land long-term. All right. Before you start doing some calculations on how much you're going to clear here, make sure you factor in what the capital gains tax is going to be for you on this, because if you're going to clear that much, you're not going to get all of that. All right. So you can factor in real estate, closing and all that kind of stuff, but make sure you talk to an accountant about what that is, because that's a bit of the wake up call when you go, wait a minute, I bought it for this and now I'm going to sell

it for this. Be like, yeah, sort of. So you want to pay off those credit cards. All right, fine. I got it. He goes, I know what you're thinking. Have I considered a cash out debt consolidation refi? Yes, I have.

And I wouldn't be able to do that for about a year due to my current credit score. After I bought my home, I was a little too loosey goosey with the finances and let things slip. And now the credit score has dipped significantly. Well, the reason it's dipping is that you have a rollover here of a balance. So those of you that have a carryover balance in your credit card, your score is just not going to be what it can be. That's one of the best ways to fix it and fix it quickly is pay off the credit cards. But then you've got to factor in, do I need the credit score to make a big financial decision? Because it seems like you already get approved for everything if you bought this house and then you fucked up your score at a later age, which isn't great. It's never great, but it's even

worse now. So I'm with you on trying to pay off those credit cards because when you have a carryover balance, that's when your score dips. And whenever I've closed out a card and you'll say like, oh, because one time like years ago, I bought something 0% down. I just didn't feel like paying for cash and I knew I wasn't making a big decision financially. So credit score wise, if it was going to dip a little bit, that was fine. But as soon as that was a zero balance credit card, then it went back up. It's one of the few ways you can make sure immediately you can get a better score. All right. Given that I don't want to live here long-term, should I go ahead and sell even though I don't have an immediate plan to move and buy somewhere else? Or should I ride out the bad credit for a

year or so until I increase my score and then cash out, refi when I know when, where I would want to buy next? The thing is, I'm not sure how much I trust myself to get my credit back to a good spot in the next year. Wow. All right. I know I have the ability, but I always find a reason to keep the credit card debt higher than it needs to be, mostly going out. Side note, I have a good job in some freelance work. I make low 100s. So if I paid off my debt now, I'd have a pretty good cash flow. All right. So a lot going on here. To take this however you want to take it, because I'm not proclaiming to be some financial expert here and none of these things, but we mentioned

the capital gains thing. Figure that out first. All right. And also try to figure out what the real number is that you would make and what you would sell it for versus what like an agent is going to tell you right now. I look at different charts in different cities and try to figure out like, okay, which city is over, overbought, you know, which one seems nuts. I had a friend send me a chart on like burn rates and Phoenix is, is towards the higher end. So I don't know if this stuff is, is going to turn around. I've touched on it before. Like is Bozeman really supposed to be double what it was a year ago? I think Park City is as well. I mean, Zoom, all of a sudden, everybody's just going to be home all the time from these cool remote locations, not near any real office. And that's how the

world is going to work for the rest of our lives. I have a hard time believing that, but that's a guess. Because if I knew, then I'd be going ahead and trying to invest in different places that I could start picking. Because the New York part of this, it would probably feel like right now, New York is a time maybe to get back in, but who knows? It might be two years from now when the pain has really kicked in and some of these commercial places are hurting and some of these guys that own a ton of rental units for landlords, and I'm not talking a commercial part of it, but some of the landlord occupancy numbers are way lower and then people think they're even lower than that. So even though rents are down, they're down from what? Down from a high or the purchase price is down from a high.

And so now you think you're getting a bargain, but the real bargain is in two years from now. Again, I don't know the answer to any of this stuff. I don't. It's just stuff that I think about. My instincts tell me that now making a profit for you wouldn't be a bad idea and getting out of a place that you don't even want to live anyway. For people that want to take gains on a real estate transaction, but then have to live in the same area, then it doesn't really make as much sense. So you don't have kids. People have to worry about this stuff. Hey, where are the kids going to go to school? Does my wife want to stay here? And that's what makes this stuff way more complicated. And you don't have any of those complications. So I think you're

willing to take a chance here and you should take a chance, but I don't want to sit here and tell you to go ahead and sell your house in Phoenix because the credit part of it, like I would just get rid of that credit card debt. If you're making a hundred thousand dollars a year, suck it up, stop going out so fucking much, pay off the debt, double up the payment. I hope you're not doing a minimum payment every month because then you're then, then I don't know that any of this advice is going to help you. But if you've gotten to this point, I think you should be smart enough to figure out that you got to get that credit card debt down. I wouldn't pay off the car loan part of it because that's probably close to free money anyway. So don't worry about that. So if you have a loan that

you want to get rid of, fine. If you want to get the credit card debt down, fine. If you want to sell in a place that's probably a little too hot right now, no temperature pun intended, I think that makes sense too. But it doesn't mean that you have to do that and then know automatically what the next move is. And sometimes the real estate selling now, taking a profit and then moving to another place that you rent for a year saves you the money on what the home purchase price would be, say, in a month versus 24 months from now. See what I'm saying? So that's just some advice. I don't know that I would take it too seriously, but I would just stop fucking up with your credit card.

Kyle? Easier said than done is all I would say to you. Yeah, but this guy, if he's saying he's making over a hundred grand and some freelance work, and so clearly his finances were in order enough to go ahead and close on a home in Phoenix. Then he had to have been doing something right at some point. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. I mean, he doesn't have kids,

right? So he doesn't have kids and he admits I'm a little loosey goosey with the finances. Other people that are maxing out credit cards to survive. I get it. I've been there. You know what I mean? It's you're, you're living day to day. You know, when's that check getting in? You're checking the direct deposit. You're freaking out. I've been there. You know what I mean? You're living day to day. When's that check getting in? You're checking the direct deposit. You're freaking out. I've been there. I know what that's like. It's about time to check mine. Right. But what I'm saying here with this guy, if he's put together enough of a history here to pull off some cool stuff and he's admitting to us he's making over $100,000 a year, he has no excuse. Others have excuses. He doesn't have. And he knows this. He knows this. All right, rec basketball drama.

I'm probably a little bit better with this. For the last six years, I've played in a pretty competitive local rec basketball league. Most guys in the league played some high school ball with a few who dabbled in a lower tier college. All right, so I call it competitive, not based on talent,

because we all take it way too seriously, myself included. We just got the email last week that COVID winding down, hopefully. The league will be restarting in June. Very exciting. My neighbor slash friend is the captain of our team responsible for the admin stuff. Most of the guys in the squad are my friends and former high school teammates that I recruited over the years. All right, here's where I need some advice. Everybody hates our team captain and a bunch of the guys have told me they won't rejoin this year if he's still there.

I know he's a good guy at heart, but yeah, as a basketball player and captain, he's pretty trash. He's a chucker and arguably the worst athlete on the team, but he insists on starting and having the offense run through him as point guard. We'll give him credit where it's due. He can throw dimes. This stuff is not new. Guys have been complaining about him for years, but one playoff game last season really rubbed people the wrong way. We were the second seed in the playoffs and really been clicking on both sides of the floor. We thought we could win the championship. For whatever reason, he showed up to the first playoff game and announced we'd be running a 2-3 zone. Even though we never once practiced

and played in a 2-3 zone defense in six years as a team, it was a clusterfuck. Even if the rest of us tried to abandon the zone and go back to man, he got stubborn, sat his ass in zone,

letting his man run wild. Of course, we lost the game because we couldn't stop anything and were distracted by his stunts. It made no sense because we'd beaten that team twice in the regular season by double digits.

Needless to say, our team was pissed off. I consider this guy a friend, but more importantly, he's my neighbor. I got a few more years on these knees, and I really want to bring the squad back, but at least two of our starters and a couple other guys will not join if he's captain. They want me to be captain,

but I don't know how to handle this situation delicately. I've discussed the zone incident with him multiple times, but he's still adamant that if we've all bought into zone, we've won the game. What are you? Who is this? Boeheim? Think how dumb that is.

Not the emailer. Think how dumb that is. Like, hey, everybody's super mad at you about just dropping a 2-3 zone pop quiz on us, and you're here in the offseason going,

if you guys had just bought in. Complete nonsense. I've also tried to get him to take a more passive role as a playmaker instead of a shoot-first brick player. He argues that he's a volume scorer and he needs the shots to get in rhythm. Again, complete nonsense. What should I do?

The team is important to a lot of us, but if this guy shares a fence with me, it could cause a lot of friction if I stole the team from him or we all left to start a new team. I mean, this guy's going to be your neighbor longer than your basketball teammate. But I couldn't put up with this. What I don't understand about a lot of the emails, and I'm sorry, but a lot of you guys chime in and you describe a situation where somebody's treating you like shit. And then you're like, what should I do?

Should I say anything? If you learn anything from this, say something. Say something. Why would you let this guy ruin all of your experiences? Because of feelings? He doesn't care about your feelings. He cares about his points and pretending that deep down, like he thinks he could be a GM, right? He hasn't cared about any of you guys the entire time. So why do you care

about him? I get it because you're a neighbor, like I said at the top of this, but you, you know, you're, you sound like you're probably a really good guy that you care about it. And you even said, Hey, I know he's a good guy at heart. So you're not even on him. You know what I mean? You're not even really calling him out, but he's the selfish one here. This team is about him and he doesn't care if any of you enjoy it. So if, if anyone were to explain a situation like that, where you were removed from it, would you say, yeah, keep doing that? Definitely. Definitely keep doing that. Oh yeah. The guy doesn't listen to you and he sucks to play with. He takes a ton of shots and he keeps talking about this 2-3 zone

that would have worked and he cost you guys maybe a champ, beat your championship. Yeah, do that more. No one would ever do that. So you already know the answer here. Get together with the rest of the guys and say, hey, we're doing it.

Look, you could even do this and say, hey, here's what's going to happen. And if it doesn't happen, then there's no team. So you can be captain of no team or I don't even think you could have

you take over, be the captain, and have him be part of it. So I know it's just pick up basketball, but all of us need an escape. And if the escape stresses you out more than the stuff you're trying to escape from, then what's the fucking point. So I would, I mean, yeah, like I said, I don't, I don't, you know what I would go just go, Hey dude, we got to talk. Hey, this is what's going to happen. And so that way you feel like you didn't do it behind his back because you know, even though this guy probably deserves all of you

guys to figure it out and plan behind his back and they just sort of announce it and let him find out i hate when people do stuff that way it's happened to me so many different times in my career um where you're like well you could have just told me this i'm like yeah but that would have been a difficult conversation so instead we're just thrilled you're way more mad about it now oh okay cool uh so you could do that if you want to feel a little bit better about this but like i said at the beginning this guy's I know it's awkward with the neighbor thing, but if he's going to all of a sudden just ice you out because you're neighbors, I mean, what are you, over there every day?

You have a hallway? No. And by all accounts, this entire description, this is not someone, no one is listening to this email being like, I don't know, two, three? Volume shooter? I could see running up and down the floor with him. That'd be fun. No one is listening to this email being like, I don't know, two, three? Volume shooter? I could see running up and down the floor with him. That'd be fun. No one is saying that.

Lifeadvicerrgmail.com. Please make sure you check out our draft recap. We're going to have Kevin Clark. Could be working on one other thing on Friday. Really looking forward to this draft. I feel like there is a lot of potential drama here.

At the top, I'm fired up. Love the draft. I feel like there is a lot of potential drama here. At the top, I'm fired up. Love the draft. We'll start talking that on Friday. Spread the word. Thank you.