The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Georges Niang Talks Cavs Ceiling, Donovan Mitchell, and the New Foul Rules. Plus, ‘Napoleon’ Author Andrew Roberts.

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

Russillo is joined by Cavaliers forward Georges Niang to discuss his journey in the NBA, what a veteran presence can bring to a team, and what the Cavaliers learned from their playoff exit a year ago (0:37). Next, author Andrew Roberts joins the show to talk more about his book ‘Napoleon: A Life’ (31:57). Plus, Life Advice with Ceruti and Kyle (68:13)! What job should someone take coming out of college? Check us out on Youtube for exclusive clips, live streams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Georges Niang and Andrew Roberts Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's pod, we're doing a couple things. We've got George Niang from the Cavs, his career, who is this team, lingering effects of last year, and some really good stuff on Fowling and Donovan Mitchell, his guy. And we've got Lord Roberts, the House of Lords. He's an author, Andrew Roberts, one of my favorite books I've ever read, Napoleon, A Life, Let's Do Some History, and Let's Do Some Life Advice.

He's with us despite 35 minutes last night, George Nhiang joining the show again. How are you doing, man, after 35 of them? You know, I'm doing well. I mean I've never heard of a professional athlete complain about playing more when they are playing more so I'm definitely not gonna complain but I got a lot of appreciation for those guys that have been doing it for a long time so two claps for you guys. Let's go back to this summer. You know, we had John, we know about your career, you're a lot of fun to talk to.

But when I was looking at that deal, I was so happy for you. What was the moment like, is there a moment you can share with us when, you know, when you look at the numbers, I think like this year, you're making just less than your career earnings to finally feel like, okay, I've arrived and I've got an actual multi-year deal. Yeah. I mean, to think about like five years ago, I was playing for 50 grand for the Santa Cruz Warriors in Santa Cruz, California to now, you know, making, you know, eight plus million dollars is obviously life changing and it's incredible, but it's a credit to the people that have

been around me to push me and allow me to be myself. You know, obviously the money is one thing, but you know, to be able to continue to play the game, I think is another and I'm going into, or this is year eight. So it's been amazing. And I think a moment that, you know, it really hit me was, you know, people say that woge bomb, you know, when that came out, I was like, holy shit, like this isn't like someone telling me on the phone what the deal is. Like, everybody knows about this. So this has to be real.

Like, there's no turning back now. And that was kind of the moment where I was like, damn, like, this is this is it. But at the same time, you know, I also realized like, this is when expectation comes next to your name. And that's where people don't understand that, you know, when there's a dollar sign next to your name, there's expectation to play well. And if you don't play well, uh, you could be on the move fairly quickly as we've seen in trade deadlines and

off seasons, um, from off seasons from years past. But you brought up a really good point though, because anybody that gets to a certain level and you're hearing like a rumor and you have your agent say, well, this might happen or this could happen. And then when it doesn't happen. I don't know that you were ever in this neighborhood money wise with thinking things could happen, but all the stops along the way I imagine there were times you're like okay I finally found a home and then it wasn't home yeah it seemed like every stop on the way was kind of like that huh I mean I definitely thought Utah was gonna be there and I was replaced by you know Rudy Gay then I kind of thought

Philly was gonna be somewhere and then you know, Rudy gay, uh, then I kind of thought Philly was going to be somewhere. And then, you know, obviously they had their multitude of things that had to happen. So that wasn't it. And, uh, you know, obviously reconnecting with Donovan here in Cleveland has been a really great for me. I enjoyed my time, you know, playing alongside him when I was in Utah, started to get reaccommodated with him and the pieces like Max Druse that we've brought in has been a really good fit for me. They needed shooting, they needed a veteran guy and I was able to offer that. But like you said, in the ballpark of that money annually,

you know, it definitely is a dream come true, that's for sure. Whenever I look at teams at a rebuilding, and clearly're not and there's a lot of calf stuff that I want to get into here But yeah when a team's like, okay, we're starting over rebuilding rebuilding through the draft like okay, totally get it but there always felt like there was this need that everybody had to be like 22 or younger and Yeah, I don't think it makes a lot of sense because it was explained to me by GM years ago was you can't have 12 to 14 guys in a roster are all thinking they're supposed to be an all-star It just doesn't really work that way So what is a veteran do like there's the difference between your role as a vet now with some of your younger players

But this team is more established But what is the vet do that we don't understand from the outside whether it was when you were younger or what you're doing now You know, I think it goes back to, even when you're in school, the teacher will tell you to do something which will say that the teachers are considered coaches. As a collective group, if you're the classmates, you're like, yeah, I'm not doing that. You know what I mean? So when you have a veteran that, you know, it would be considered like the classmates or like the, the, the team, you know, you want that guy to lead by example.

So, you know, coming in every day and getting treatment, taking care of your body, eating right, you know, lifting, getting shots up and showing these guys that this is actually like a job. Like I know you guys think like, Hey, you, you can walk in with your big headphones, your sandals on, you know, going windmill dunk. And you know, that's, Oh, I got my shots up today going half ass. But like you need an older guy that's going to come in and set the tone every single day

and help these guys build habits that, you know, they're doing it right next to them. Cause a strength coach, a head coach, an assistant coach, a development coach can only push you so much. But if your peers are sitting right next to you and they're doing it, you get peer pressured into being like, well, I can't let them down. I have to do it. And that's almost why you want to have a couple of veterans on the team to hold these guys accountable. And, you know, when they need it in practice, you know, no 22 year old kid wants

to get their ass bust by a 30 plus year old veteran. Let me tell you that you get your ass bust enough, you're going to think twice about your habits and your routine. And so I think it's extremely important where people don't see the value of these glue guys, of these veteran guys, is they're constantly working with these young guys to build these habits to have them think the game of basketball because in college, the season happens, you play one, two games a week, whatever. In the NBA, there's 82 games and you have to stick to a routine. Otherwise you fall so far behind. And when you're so far behind, that's when 10 game

losing streets happen. That's when shooting slumps, career lows, where you want these guys to have a routine that a lot of veterans know how to have a routine so that they can continue to build on this where their career is going like this rather than they're playing catch up their whole front end of their career and they're saying in like year five or six damn I wish I would have known X, Y or Z I would have been so much better. Who was the best veteran you had when you were younger? So year one it was definitely Al Jefferson. Like he set the tone for me with like what was expected like as like a rookie, right? When I was like, entry passes, I get 20 post-subs again. Yeah,

not even it was more like off the court stuff. Like, hey, like, yeah, well, yeah, entry passes. That is funny. That left block Al Jefferson still owns real estate on that left block. And then I would go to the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the make me get him a bacon, egg and cheese and a coffee. You know, and or before after shoot arounds, he'd make me get him Jimmy John's and two potato chips and a bottle of water. Like it was those things that the rookie duties that you had to do where I learned and was instilled in my mind, you know, rookies kind of had to earn their keep no matter who you were. That's what that's what you had to do. And that was more for like the off the court stuff because, you know, as you talked about

our journey, I was so bad in Indiana to start off my career that there wasn't really much to teach me on the court. So moving on, I get to Utah and that's where Joe Ingalls kind of took me under his wing. And you know, he's a savvy, you know, I would say somewhat athletic guy, probably a little more athletic than me, but, you know but kind of had the same skill set. And he kind of showed me the tricks of the trade of how to be a reliable, defensive guy, how to pick your spots on offense and have the ultimate confidence to shoot as many threes as you want.

Me and Joe are still close to this day, but that's definitely a veteran that taught me how to talk a little shit too. Let's talk about the Cavs. I can't figure you guys out. Um, and I mean that almost as a compliment and one is like you put together some of these stretches and you go, well, okay, do I have to look at them as like a real contender coming out of the East? Because you know how good Boston is. We know what Milwaukee's track record is. This is pre the Embiid injury. You go 17 and one, and that was without Garland and Mobley

for a long stretch of that. It's obviously cooled off like an unrepeatable stretch, but what is this team? Because when I look at the East, I don't want to be dismissive, but I'm just not there yet. Maybe that has more to do with Boston. Yeah, I know. I completely understand that. Um, we have so many pieces on this team and we've had so many injuries

and guys being out that, you know, we are blending and molding with the pieces that we have. And then when we get everybody back, it's like, we're really trying to continue to build and like, all right, this is everybody that we have here and this is how we're trying to build. It seems like every time we get our full roster back, you know, someone either has a sprained ankle or someone gets injured.

And I think the biggest thing for us is the strength of our team, you know, is our team, is that we have so much depth. But I think moving forward, you want to find your core nine, 10 guys that you're going to ride with. And, you know, obviously we can't do that because guys are out. But I think moving forward over these next 13 games, we're definitely going to figure out who we're going to be rolling with and what we're going to do. I think the adding shooting has definitely helped them will give guys like Darius, Donovan, Karras space to operate.

And then you have the two giants in Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, which anchor our defense, protect the rim, and gather a shit ton of offensive rebounds. Obviously, Boston poses its challenges, I think, for everybody with their ability to space the floor and their size. But looking back on us, I think the biggest thing that we'll have to do is continue to take and make shots and space teams out. And I think our defense is really what we hold our head on, you know, moving forward. When Boston has it flying, it's really scary.

Okay. But yeah, we saw it the other week ago. Right. But then he also had the comeback, uh, against them not that long ago either. We're, we're Dean Wade turned into Steph Curry. So when, when you look at, this is kind of the, you know, I have some other courses about other teams these, but I want to get back to Cleveland here, but I'll just, I'll allow this, I guess. these, but I want to get back to Cleveland here, but I'll just allow this, I guess.

Well, it's my podcast so I can do it. But do you think there is, it's not a fatal flaw, but that Boston becomes a little easier to defend when they're so reliant on threes at times? You know what? I was just telling someone that whereas like when I was, when we were in Philly, like the game would get close and not to say we won anything in Philly, like, cause you know, people are going to, I'm going to see the comments when you post this, like, Oh, you guys didn't win anything.

Like, all right, I get it. But when we're in Philly and we needed a two, like we had like the ace of spades to go get a two point bucket, whether if it was like a duck in or a mid range jumper, like Joel could get us a 70 80% shot. Like sometimes when you watch Boston and we played them when they went through these lows, like they were so dependent on these jumpers. If you'd be in a drop, they see that the three point shot was the first thing that's open and they're going to take it. And granted, they're a really good three pointing shooting team. I'm not taking anything away from them. But as you know, people go through slumps, teams go through slumps. And if you can get them to be

reliant on taking a bunch of jump shots when they're not hot, you have a pretty solid chance. But over the course of a seven game series, they do have a chance to get hot four out of those seven games, which, you know, hurts. But at the same time, we've also seen it come back to bite them in the ass. IE, you know, the Miami series last year where they baited them to shoot. And I don't know, you tell me, do you think they have a guy that can go get them a, um, for sure too, at any time during the game. I do think Tatum has that. Whenever I'm even remotely critical of him, it's kind of like how I talk about you guys.

I like your team. I know how good you are. But then it's okay, but am I seriously looking at the Caz as a chance to win the East? And then I have a hard time getting there. And with Boston, the criticism is only, will they win the whole thing if they don't win it This year it's the most disappointing season probably a team could have and that sounds ridiculous to getting to the NBA finals

But that's what they've been building towards So I'll only look at them like I'm with a far more critical lens and when I go and look through the numbers to see If do they really fall off this cliff? It's like I don't think so like when they blew the game to you guys, I think they just stopped closing out. I think they let Dean hit like three or four. They didn't box out because they were up 20. I just see too many NBA games where a team is up big and you just stop doing the stuff that you're supposed to do. It's the same thing with football. You know, a team will be up 21-3 or 21-7 and it's like, I'm just not going to block as hard now. Like this thing's almost over. So, look, that's what I see's like, I'm just not going to block as hard now. Like this thing's almost over.

Um, so like that, that's what I see. Look, I want to go back to you guys though, because you mentioned it with you coming in with Struz, there's a different combination of a closing unit here that I think gives a different look. And after last year in the Knicks series, you know, I had a moment and again, these are just thoughts that I have out loud without even having a definitive answer. I was like, wait, with the defensive numbers that Cleveland has had with

Mobley, who was terrific last year with Allen, I was like, does that actually clog them up a bit offensively? And it seems like even if Mobley's back and healthy in the closing group is Garland Mitchell, the two bigs. And then you figure healthy in the closing group is Garland, Mitchell, the two bigs, and then you figure out who the fifth guy is, if it's a Coro for defense, if it's shooting with Struz, if it's you for defensive matchup, at least there's a better option than maybe only having one or two with Laverde or Coro last year. But is there anything that lingers from last year's playoff experience, knowing you weren't

a part of it, that you hear about or it's just discussed with this group going into the playoffs this year? Yeah, you know, I think more or less, it was their first year getting into the playoffs in a little while and the guys that were here their first time playing in the playoffs. And I'll tell you, you know, playoff experiences is real. And I would definitely say from a toughness standpoint, you know, they're in no place to repeat what happened last year. I think the toughness aspect of that is not going in and

getting punked. You know, that's not a viable option. You know, the defensive numbers speak for themselves, but at the same time in the playoffs, you know, you know, just as good as I know, it's a toughness battle on who's gonna give in first. And I think that's something that these guys are well aware of and realize that this season is a year where, you know, it's not going to be repeated as last year, where, you know, getting out physical, out rebound, like that's no longer an option. Someone

is going to get put on their ass before they think they can just walk in the paint and continuously offensive rebound and try and out physical us. That's one thing that I think has been harped on since God, September. So now it's just time to prove that. Let's fast forward these 13 games. J.D. Who is the one player in the East that changes the most of what you do defensively as far as your prep? We were like, okay, this is the guy. And now we have to kind of change all of our rules. I mean, well, we're we're if we're talking at that point, I think it's the guy that you know, is in Philadelphia, I think, you know, you have a guy like Joe Allen bead, who offers so much attention, right? With him being on the court, he, you just have to always have an IM,

always have a guy ready to get the ball out of his hands, whether if it's a double team or, you know, I would say a triple team or having a guy loaded up and helping. But then you go along and you look at Boston and where they, you know, present their challenges are, is, you know, you want challenges are as, you know, you want to take away the paint in the NBA, right?

You want to not give these elite athletes, elite basketball players rhythm with shots at the rim and easy shots close in the paint. So you want to take that away. But Boston has Al Horford, Perzingis, you know, Tatum, Brown, Derek White, Drew Holliday, all guys that can shoot 40 plus, especially if they're open. And sometimes there's no real option to take away, you know,

just everybody. And they pose their challenges because they all play on the perimeter. So there's no one guy that you can funnel everybody into to help. So that's why Boston is as dangerous as they are. I have a theory based on limited handle sampling, but is Sam Merrill really, is he really tough to deal with one-on-one when you guys are screwing around? Because I think there's way more to him than just the shooting. Oh yeah. I don't think Sam Merrill gets enough credit, you know, especially with his journey and mentally how he's had to, you know, literally you get, you win a championship,

you get waved or cut because of money purposes, which is like, has nothing to do with your skill. Like imagine being told, yeah, you know, we're letting you go cause not cause you're not good enough because you know, we just, we don't want to be in the second apron or I don't know what exactly I mean, I saw the comparison, which is, I'm not comparing them, but it was like per 36 with like Steph Curry and how many threes they get up. And I was like, wow, Sam, you know, in, in 15 to 17 minutes, you really can helm them up there and, you know, you can get them to the point where they're like, Oh, I'm going to go with the first one.

I'm going to go with the second one. And then I'm like, I'm going to go with the third one. And then I'm like, I'm going to go with the fourth one. And then I'm like, I'm going to go with the fourth one. And then I'm like, I'm going to go, but it was like per 36 with like Steph Curry and how many threes they get up. And I was like, wow, Sam, you know, in 15 to 17 minutes, you really can come them up there and shoot them at a high clip. But he's also had games where he's had like nine, 10 assists, you know, so I don't think people understand with a team, everybody has like a role and the role needs to be played and I'll make a crazy comment here and

this is why I never think like big threes or whatever like all these superstars coming together are gonna work because it just devalues the value of glue guys that do the little things that people don't see that kind of bring a team altogether. Like you look at Denver last year, like sure, you want to say their big three is Jamal Murray, Jokic and Michael Porter. But like Aaron Gordon coming in and being able to play the low post and the dunker spot while Jokic is operating at the free throw line

is like a glue guy that you know, you really need. Or Bruce Brown being able to be subbed in and guard the other team's best perimeter to player. Like you can't just get three superstars or four superstars and think that you can just fill all the other spots with just guys that are willing to take a minimum and, uh, and win games. And I know it's a hot take, but I just think that that is not the way to a championship. And it's kind of shown itself not the way to a championship.

And it's kind of shown itself here the last couple of years. You can't just throw pieces together and expect it to just happen like lightning in a bottle. I like how you preface this already countering the comments that will come your way as a seasoned podcaster. I can see the skills that you're developing. You're making a point, but you're also trying to get in front of all the points that are coming.

You've got the bench seat, which is a weekly show. What are you enjoying about this? Which is just absurd growing up, thinking like active athletes can all just have outlets now to the media, but now it's obviously been normalized now for years. But is this something you actually wanna do? Yeah, I mean, now you're my competitor,

so I don't even know why I'm on here or you're having me on here. We're competitors now. No, you know, I've always loved doing this. Like I could sit around, you know, probably I've sat around one too many times in South Boston and had these types of sports talks and talking shit like anybody else had.

And I just, it's kind of an outlet for me and something that I've always been passionate about. I can, I can talk anybody's ear off, but you know, I love sports. I've always loved sports and being able to have a podcast, the bench sheet with, you know, like you said, with, with Kevin Spies. It's been awesome. And I think the coolest part is we've kind of added a comedic twist to it. I think, you know, there's some podcasts where every host or cohost thinks they know everything.

And that isn't how we kind of spin it. We have our hot takes, we have our opinions, whether if it's on hockey, football, um, or basketball, which is kind of the mainstream of what I know. Um, I'm a professional sports coach. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete.

I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a professional athlete. As you know, things are always changing. So I hope it's with the bench seat or you never know. I may be trying to come hop on a show with you, the frigging take over the world. I don't know, you tell me.

I got a couple more things here. The fouling, I lost my mind on a podcast a couple months ago where I was just, it was after one of those six, seven hour nights of watching games, where I was like, you can't keep of those six, seven hour nights of watching games where I was like, you can't keep allowing the offensive player to initiate all this contact. And now in a very short amount of time,

it feels like it's real. The numbers back it up. Okay, so what are you experiencing on the court? How different does it feel for you with how different you can be physically in the last few weeks? I got some advice for anybody playing in these next 13 games. Don't drive to the hoop and look for any of that.

You're not getting it. Which, you know, the game is constantly evolving. You watch this game like a hawk, right? For you to see that, it's kind of done the opposite. I mean, something had to be done. Games, you know, games are in the 150s. Nobody really wants to watch that stuff. And we're grown men. You know, I think, you know,

some guys are gonna have to fight through a little contact. And I got a technical last night and I'll be the first one to tell you, I'm sitting here saying that they should allow more contact. But when I have a chance to score, I'm like, that's up. He's hitting me. So, you know, I think it's good for the game and it kind of implements,

I wasn't even around for the eighties or the nineties, but it kind of implements that old school mentality where our, again, I'm going to say this, our generation has kind of gotten somewhat, you know, soft where if someone gets touched or if they lose the ball, they're complaining that they got touched that it's followed where it kind of gives you that eighties, nineties mentality where it's like, yeah, you are going to get grabbed, touched or hit, but who's going to be able to push through that and actually make a play? Well, what I've noticed too, like Jaylen Brunson is a good example.

But when I started seeing things get more physical, I was like, wait, is Jaylen Brunson going to struggle with some of this stuff? And it's like, no, he's going to score 40 like every night. Like that game against Golden State, he was the best player on the floor. He was, he was unbelievable the way he controls everything. I thought it was too easy for too many people, but when I look at the best players, it's not like all of a sudden the guys at 30 points a game are going to start going to 20 points a game because the usage is another thing on top of it all too. I'm glad it happened because I just felt like the defensive player was getting to a point where it was like, I don't even know. Like, I'm just supposed to get out of the way now, I guess.

I completely hear you. It was almost like the defensive player was handcuffed. Like, why don't you just play with your hands behind your back? Um, and even then, like it was offensive players were ramming into defensive players and falling over. And it's like, if I don't hold my ground, he's going to lower his shoulder. You're not going to call offensive foul and I'm going to be knocked off my spot. And as you know, these are NBA players. They need a small amount of space to be able to make a shot at a, at a high clip. So being able to be more physical, I think is huge, especially leading up to the playoffs

where you know, it's like, it's, it's a really a war out there. Like it, the fouls are not called and it's a fight and you better be ready for fouling to happen because it's going to happen. And what team is going to fight through that. But you're also, you know, right when you say these, you know, skilled players, you know, some of them, it doesn't affect them. And as much as I hate bringing up Jalen Brunson, cause I am in a Cleveland Cavaliers uniform,

and he's done a tremendous job of being able to, fight through any circumstance, that's for sure. All right, I wanna talk about a foul that you committed the other night. It was against the Pacers, you're up two, they've got the ball, you've got Siakam pinned on the sideline. Oh, get the fuck out You've got Siakam pinned on the sideline. Get the fuck out of here.

I think you knew what you were doing. Listen, all I know is that if the ball is being taken out and you're going to get the ball, you don't run to the sideline. What did they tell you when you first started basketball? The sideline, the half-court line, the baseline is another defender. So I ran as close as I could get to him denying the ball until he caught it. And you know, I was really good in science. An object in motion stays in motion until stopped by something, an outside force. Well, there's no outside force on the sideline. So therefore I got as close as I could.

As soon as he, you know, his momentum stopped, he wanted to start yelling and screaming like, you know, like Pascal Siakam does every time he drives to the hoop. Hey! And the ref made a call and I am so thankful that my good man, Dan Vincent behind the bench for the Cleveland Cavaliers who was usually telling JB to do this, said to challenge it.

But that wasn't a foul. I mean, are we really the bumping and stuff that goes on all over the court? We were really going to call it. I mean, what do you think? I'd love to hear your opinion on this. No, I didn't. I'm having fun with you. It was overturned for the record, as you mentioned here.

I thought it was just a good closeout. I think you kind of knew you were gonna get your body on him a little bit, but you kept the arms back. And then he- You put the old six pack on him and he wasn't ready for it. Right. You know what I noticed with that? And I'm not gonna say what JB said

because the camera caught him at a moment where, he probably wouldn't love me sharing this. And I think enough people missed it that they didn't see it. But it seemed to be like joy for him to challenge it for Siakam because he had said something to the ref very specific about Siakam and his, and it was, it felt like it was a little bit extra.

I don't know if it's a Pacers Cavs thing. I don't know if it was because it was a tight game, but JB was heated. And then once it was overturned, the joy that he had granted it was a huge possession too, because now you get the ball up to under a minute. I just, I felt like I noticed something and I could really sell this even more. If I said the quote that I could read his lips saying, but I'm not going to do that to him because it was it was very specific. F-O-H or something? It was a second half of it have to the second half of the word.

Starts with an F. No, no, starts with an F. Yeah. I think we get it. Hey, okay. All right. I think we got it. Okay. Last one. Last one here. I have I have a theory on Donovan Mitchell. I know he's your guy. Everybody wants to talk about his future. Yeah, I think him rocking the Cavs hat has to make people feel a little bit better. Right? to make people feel a little bit better. I mean, I, I, I, uh, I don't like speaking on other people's futures, but you know, from the vibes that I get around here, um, and from what I was with them in Utah and our experiences over there, I would, uh, I would lean towards him, you know, being a Cavalier for a long time. And that's just my personal thought. That has nothing to do with what he's going to do because he's his own person.

And but I think he genuinely enjoys this organization, the situation that he's in and how it can continue to help grow his career and his ability to win. When I first got here, and I got to sit down and talk with him face to face, obviously we've talked on the phone before that. But he was essentially just like, I really think we can do it here,

and I want to continue to keep building pieces here, you know, to continue and try and win. And I know he's under contract, but I think he's going to be here for a long time. And I think that hat will be staying on. That's my personal opinion. Well, many Cass fans will be thrilled to hear that one because you can start playing it all out and going like, well, wait a minute. And sometimes I wonder too, like if it's just the rest of us talking about something and we just keep repeating the same stuff to each other in the rumor mill of stuff. And then it turns into something else. But now look, you answer that about as well as a teammate could ever possibly answer it.

So I don't want to continue to put you up. But if he were to leave, but if he were to leave, you want me to tell you where I think he's going? Does the PR guy next to you want you to tell you where I think he's going? Does the PR guy next to you want you to tell me this? I think I can play. I think you go play for the New York Mets playing baseball. We're going to use this as the breakout video then. Yang says the Mets. Perfect. George, you're always a blast man. I'll tell everybody back home you said hello and make sure you check out the bench seat

with Kevin Spies and George. That is a weekly podcast. Go subscribe on YouTube. It's one of my all time favorite books. I just finished it. It's probably the best book that I've read this year. Napoleon, A Life published in 2014 by the author Andrew Roberts Who is much more accomplished than just being an author Lord Roberts a member of the House of Lords joins us today. Thank you, Andrew

Thanks very much for having me on the show Ryan. All right, let's get right into it All the great stories start in the beginning So this is someone who was born August 15 1769 in Corsica And is it fair to say the man who would one day become Emperor of France originally probably hated Frenchmen in the country as a younger man? Exactly that, yes. France had taken over Corsica the previous year before he was born in 1768. He was a Corsican nationalist as was his father. And so, yeah, he thought of the French as imperialist invaders and didn't think of himself

at all French until the French Revolution when he was 20 years old. He's obviously somebody who comes from some, you know, not extreme wealth, descendants of Florence, but the family was an educated family. But his pursuit of military school, it becomes fairly evident that he's not someone socially, whether it's his appearance, whether it's his means of way,

but this is someone who didn't really have any friends, correct? Well, he was an aristocrat by birth, but they had no money, the Bonaparte of Corsica. And also, Corsica wasn't really a place that had an aristocracy terribly much. So his background was aristocratic, but that didn't really mean anything terribly much except for the fact that under French law, he was able to be educated for free at the expense of the king in France.

So when he went to France, he was considered to be a Corsican. All the other people in his class were Astrocrats as well. And so they didn't look up to him in any way socially. In fact, they looked down on him because he was an outsider essentially, a strange accent, was a bit of a loner at school. And so you're right, yeah. He didn't have any close friends when he was growing up.

And he also appears, I mean, he's obviously very well read, but it seems like his main hobby was an attempt to be a writer. That felt like his first passion. Yeah, he wanted to be a novelist. As well as a soldier, he recognized he wasn't going to be able to make a great living from being a writer, but he did want to write at the same time. At that stage, people were able to do that. There was a lot more sort of polymaths around then than there are today. He would love the idea of being a sort of philosopher novelist, all those sort of sexy things rather than just being a soldier essentially.

Was he bad at it? Was he average at it? It sounds like he was sending work out. What I tried to do in the book was to quote enough of him for the reader to make up their minds, whether they think that he was a novelist. I think the fact that he put himself up for competitions and he never came anywhere near winning any of them at all is in itself quite interesting. He read a lot of Goethe, he obviously loved the sort of melodramatic novellas, including the ones that he wrote all about sort of love and battle and death and all that kind of business. But let's just say, I think he chose the right career path

as a conqueror rather than a novelist. I don't wanna spend a ton of time on his love life. I think the movie did that. Not very successfully, they did it. I mean. I was successfully, they did it. I mean. I was gonna leave that one alone, but, you know, he's clearly not the first or second option for the opposite sex.

And again, he doesn't really have that many friends, so he's sitting at home, he's reading, he's writing, but he had this quote that you shared early on that just staggered me. I had to read it over and over again because of a young man to say about love. And then again, I think he had said this later on, but it's kind of revisiting his thoughts where he said, quote, the occupation of the idle man on love, the distraction of the warrior, the stumbling block of the sovereign. So it's just unbelievable

It's just unbelievable that I think it just encapsulates what he thought of the idea of any kind of relationship and clearly he had one more focus than it was having the most happy home life. Well that's right. But of course then when he does fall in love with Josephine when he's in his mid-twenties, he goes completely over the head over heels. And the whole thing, I mean, you can just sort of rip up everything that he's ever said, all those cynical remarks about love that he's ever said, because he has this incredibly highly passionate, erotic relationship

with this woman who he worships and marries. And then it comes unstuck to the point that he actually winds up with 27 mistresses in his life. So obviously it's not the sort of passionate love affair that he's written about in his imagination novels. Well, when you're the emperor, you probably have a few more options than just a poor schoolboy. All right. So it's very apparent in your timeline of events that it's as if he were self-taught essentially with military strategy, whether it was Caesar, Alexander the Great, he obviously had a lot of interest literally. But it is something that like his rise, Andrew feels immediate. What was it about some of the early opportunities that he had

that show the people around him that this is someone who's very special when it comes to being a soldier? Well, the first one of course was the French Revolution itself, which meant that as a soldier, he was already a soldier. The entire upper echelons essentially of the French army were pretty much all of them just got done away with. Either they escaped France to escape the guillotine or they were indeed guillotined. And so suddenly from having a high command

full of generals of higher social standing than him, these guys all left. So that immediately allowed for a huge chance of promotion. Secondly, of course, France had war declared against it by both Prussia and Austria in the early 1790s. That also gave him a great boost because the French suddenly spent an enormous amount of their GDP on defense and the army became much larger. So they needed more officers as well. And then, as you mentioned, his reading, his self-education, it wasn't just reading about Hannibal and Caesar, so on Alexander the Great.

It was also reading about military history and also books about warfare, which weren't history. They were educational. And so he had all of those things and then he had his opportunities. The classic one, of course, being Toulon, the siege of Toulon, where he as an artillery major was able to spot the absolutely key place that placed his batteries in order to force the British fleet out of Toulon, which was and

indeed still is the headquarters of the French Navy. Austria plays a major role in his story and whether it's the expansion of the army of Italy, I mean, it just kind of goes on and on. And I know we're going to get to some more of it a little bit later. And I even started going back through different timelines of the boundaries of these areas and the battles. I mean, it's far, far longer before Napoleon even walked the face and the battles. I mean, it's just far, far longer before Napoleon even walked the face of the earth. But the constant conflict with Austria that just,

just never ends until it ends. What were the motivations behind this? Um, just what felt like Napoleon's entire professional career. Well, it goes back in history to the 16th century when the, um, the Austrians and the French fought over Northern Italy. Um, Northern Italy was one of the richest and most firm.

If you captured and held Northern Italy, uh, it was a tremendous, um, financial and, uh, and economic advantage to your country. And so they did fight over it for a very long time. And then 1796, Napoleon in a brilliant series of battles in that year and the following year, basically expelled the Austrians from Italy and won the whole of Italy to the French Republic. So this was the thing that boosted his career enormously, but also helped France in a very

great way. The Austrians, therefore, obviously wanted to have it back. They continued on and off fighting from 1796 all the way through to 1810, when they tried a different tack, which was to marry the daughter of the emperor of Austria to Napoleon. That didn't work for more than three years, two years in fact, because then they went back to war again

until the fall of Napoleon. So you're absolutely right. Austria is totally key to this, not just strategically, but also they stay in the war far longer than the Russians, the Prussians, anybody at all, apart from the British war with Napoleon for 22 years, pretty much.

So Napoleon becomes essentially a hero with some of these early victories, and part of it's his strategy, his swiftness of movement. I think there's also an argument to be made that Napoleon being younger and going up against some of these generals that were so much older, he just had advantages and he was more ahead of his time essentially with some of the ways that he was going about executing some of these things. So it feels like he's a national hero in a very short amount of time, But Britain's always lingering, lurking because of the longstanding history between the two countries.

And it feels like the Middle East is the next great area to expand the empire. What were the motivations behind Napoleon convincing the leaders back in France for him to take an army to Egypt and then work their way up to the Middle East? Because Britain had extensive financial and commercial interests in the Eastern Mediterranean. And if the French were able to take Egypt, they'd be able to strangle these, essentially. So it wasn't difficult for the person who persuaded the directory, the government of France and especially Tannhärom Directory, the government of France, and especially Talleyrand, the Foreign Minister of France, that this was going to be a good idea to send a

substantial army off to Egypt. There was also possibly a lurking feeling amongst several of the directors, the five directors that ruled France at the time, that it wouldn't be a bad idea if Napoleon won, but also it wouldn't be that bad an idea if Napoleon lost because it would mean that this incredibly popular was feared might come back and stage a military coup against them was humiliated. So it was a sort of no-lose situation the directory felt. There's definitely some debate over whether it's him rising up the coast, the Jaffa campaign, the different areas where it just becomes more and more brutal. But then as you point out, you're like, okay, but some of the guys that he was fighting against, these are some of the worst people going as well when you look at their own history of just killing their own people.

But it just becomes untenable, right? And I think the people that look at Napoleon own history of just killing their own people, but it just becomes untenable, right? And I think the people that look at Napoleon only with a critical eye would say he just abandoned the rest of his army so he could go back to Paris. But I think it was a little bit more like there's that's not the complete version of the story, even though ultimately he knew he had to get out of there. That's right. exactly. And there were great victories. The Battle of the Pyramids, for example, was a great victory. The Battle of Alexandria was, you know, he was, he was at Acre, modern day Acre in Israel. But he'd had lots of successful victories earlier than that, including the ones at Jaffa and Gaza. The one in Jaffa led to a form of a war crime, but as you say,

Middle Eastern rules were different and also 18th century rules of war were different. He was up against somebody called Jazar the butcher, famously, so psychopathically, violence. And so, so yes, it's difficult to see these things through modern day lenses too much, frankly, with regard to the ethics of Middle Eastern warfare in the 18th century. But yes, he had to get back to France and he probably had to get back before the news of his being turned back at Acre as well through to the French. Because if he was going to have a military coup essentially, it had to be done as a victorious conqueror rather than somebody who'd been defeated by the Turks and the British at Acre. I wondered this as I was reading it,

and I'm sure you could have expanded on in the book if you had wanted to, but do you think there was any motivation for a younger Napoleon to follow in the footsteps of his heroes, to think of the Roman Empire expansion, to think of Alexander, to think like, I'm just gonna keep going and I'm just going to keep marching. Or is it actually not that absurd that he knew that there were limitations on how far away he could keep marching his army? Because I've seen arguments that, oh, this just proves he wanted

to just keep going and going when he's turned back at Acre, then it means that the reality of it all sunk in. But initially, thought he was gonna sort of expand the map as far as he wanted to go. No, he didn't truly think, although Alexander the Great, he didn't really think of himself as another Alexander the Great. He knew that French armies would only be able to get so far.

What he was able to do though, he was a genius propagandist who was able to wrap these wars of conquest in historical parallels that gave them much deeper meaning or seemed to at least. And so fighting under the pyramids where he said 40 centuries looked down upon you was an obvious reference to history. As far as the Roman Empire is concerned, he took many of the symbols of ancient Rome. One thinks of the eagles and the Senate and the fact he called himself First Consul when he took power.

These are all very obvious allusions to the Roman Empire. He did talk about crossing the Indus and going into sort of Delhi on the back of an elephant and all these kinds of things. But that you have to remember with respect to Napoleon, which you mentioned earlier, the romantic novelist kind of outside of him was ever present and was extremely useful in terms of propaganda. Okay. So that's perfect segue then back into, he gets back and despite the military history

and the debates over who he was or who he wasn't, as I'm reading this part of him taking over first council and essentially setting up, like being this great administrator, it felt a little bit about reading about Hamilton early on where it's like, okay, we should have this in America and we should have this and this should be this kind. And you're like, man, this guy's just on fire with all these different ways that he wants things to be run. I think it's

inarguable that Napoleon at this time was actually incredibly efficient and was doing things that the populace approved of and not just in France, but surrounding areas. So that part of it is almost lost with all the military debates on how just incredible he was. It just government. Well, he, he certainly, you're absolutely right. He certainly felt that he said that the, um, the only victories that last are the victors of the mind. He believed that what he said that he had put great blocks of granite down in France and that essentially even if he were militarily defeated they would still exist and they do exist. The extraordinary thing is how many things he created. Specs of the French Republic today you think the Code Napoleon, the way in which he totally

revised the entire body of laws for France, the education system which is still in place, the Sorbonne and the Lycée, the bridges that he built and all the various bits of extraordinarily impressive infrastructure. The Légion d'honneur is still today, the much sought after in France, the Banque de France tend to defeat inflation is still with us. The Concordat with Rome, it was illegal to worship in France when he took over, but he made an agreement with the Roman Catholic Church,

which reintroduced religion. Basically what he did, and there are many other examples, the Conseil d'Etat which still meets every Wednesday in France to vet the laws of France. Basically what he did was to keep the best bits of French Revolution, ideas like equality before the law, freedom of religion, meritocracy, and so on. And to get rid of all the mad bits to do with the guillotine and the reign of terror and the 10-day working week and so on. He goes from first consul to emperor in 1804.

This part is a bit ironic. I think you would admit that originally early on, I think he ends up becoming emperor in a way that a younger Napoleon would have argued against anyone having this position. Is that fair? supporter of Robespierre and the Jacobins who were the most extreme of all the Republicans and very much, you know, they're the people who chop the king's head off and then he goes and puts a crown on his own head. So yes, there is an internal bit of hypocrisy going on there. At this point, it's the great power. You know, there's always, as we mentioned, the British Empire and their influence and their territories through colonization, but then you have France continuing

to kind of expand further east. How far, at its peak, how far did the lines go between France and then whatever else they were essentially saying was their territory? Well, I mean, ultimately, I suppose you could say he went all the way to Moscow. But of course, he didn't rule over those parts of Russia between the River Neyman, which he crossed in the June of 1812 and Moscow. So it's a difficult one. You know, some places were ruled directly by French administrators, others were ruled by proxy forces, others were hardly ruled at all, frankly.

They were sort of, you know, brigands controlled them, but they were nominally under the French Imperial Crown. So it depends really, but it was the biggest empire since Charlemagne thousand years before. You bring up Russia. Alexander, the star Alexander was essentially a friend. He greatly admired him. At some point courting his sister, I think there's a great part in the book where he's talking to essentially his advisors and they're voting on who he should marry after he's decided to leave Josephine because she can't provide him a son. There's attempts at maybe somebody who's Parisian

and he's like, nah, none of them are good enough. And then of course, strategically, it doesn't make any sense. So it's either Alexander's sister perhaps, which he doesn't really want her to marry Napoleon, the mother doesn't want her to marry Napoleon, and then you have the daughter of the King of Austria. So it's all strategy here. But prior to the disaster that is the march to Moscow and then the march back, it just feels like these moments in history were like everything. If he had just married, if it had just worked out with Alexander's family, then the course of Napoleon is a completely different one, correct? Yes. There were other problems besides the Dowager Empress. The girl

was very young. I think she was like 15 or 16, whereas he was 40. That was another slight issue with the family. Also, the Mollots had been on the throne for 200 plus years, and they didn't really think that it was a proper marriage to, even though this chap had been emperor of France for eight years, he was essentially a sort of Corsican upstart and a very minor aristocrat marrying into, you know, one of the great imperial families of Europe. So there was lots of sort of class as well as age and political thing.

But you're right, your key point is right. If that marriage had come off and had certainly if they'd had children, it would have completely changed European history for the next 100 years or so. Okay, then we also realize that Russia is essentially annoyed with Napoleon's economic policy towards trying to just find a way to hurt Great Britain with all of their trade. And there's just a lot of tension there. But clearly Napoleon's trying to figure this out, even beyond the courting of the sister. It's like, look, I admired you. There still has to be a way. And then there's just not a way. What happens in Russia? Because the numbers, the killing, the despair, the

march back. I mean, you can argue Napoleon won, but the main point is that Russia didn't lose. And that's ultimately like the first major undoing of Napoleon's military greatness? Well, Russia, first of all, the reason that he invaded Russia and brought this friendship to an end, this friendship that you mentioned earlier with the Tsar to an end, was because he tried to set up a protectionist system all around Europe called the Continental System, which would block the whole of Europe from doing any trade at all with England. In order to that, he had to invade Spain and Portugal in 1807, 1808, and then Russia in 1812. As you say, it was the key turning point. He won the battles, Smolensk and Borodino, but he comprehensively lost the campaign because

he was turned back after getting to Moscow. He was turned back in the late October 1812 and had to take a massive dogleg back via the battlefield of Borodino to Smolensk where when the blizzards came in they killed all of those people who hadn't already been killed by a massive typhus outbreak on the way to Moscow. So the statistics are extraordinary. He crosses the Neiman River in the June of 1812, like 615,000 men, which is the same size as Paris, which was the largest city in Europe at that time. He comes back that December with only 95,000. So he's lost the best part of half a million men in the snows and the blizzards of Russia, including the best part of his Grande Armée. So that's the point of importance of Austria. The key thing then is that in 1813, having seen this

catastrophe that's overcome the French army, the Austrians declare war as to the Prussians and then they will start moving in for the kill which they eventually get in 1814 and 1815. That takes place in a series of battles. Essentially this is the battle of nations. We can put even more numbers on this but at this point, prior to World War I, it's the largest battle in the history of Europe. But your point is that after Russia,

like it was weakness, it was payback, it was Austria's finally, we're in the Prussia, parts of Germany. Russia's like, now we can start heading in that direction where before it was, there was a very clear direction outward from France. And it feels like the battle of nations was, there was a very clear direction outward from France and it feels like the Battle of Nations was, as you said, directly motivated by the disaster in Russia. Will Barron And of course, the allies,

France's allies switched sides. The nation's also known as the Battle of Leipzig in the October of 1813. On one day, on the first day, the Saxons fight on Napoleon's side, and then they all switch sides. And a huge hole appears in Napoleon's front line, because they've essentially absconded, turned around, and at this time fighting for the Allies against Napoleon. And he can't be sure of his Bavarian allies. He can't be sure of various other Italian allies either. So it's sort of back to France itself. That's the army with which he fights a brilliant series of battles. He wins four battles in five days in the 1814 campaign in the Champagne region just outside Paris. He's at his absolute best. You see

some movements that he undertakes that are as good as anything he did in the Italian campaign 18 years earlier. But nonetheless, the time is running out. The problem is, as you alluded to, that he's opposing bigger and bigger as his gets smaller and smaller. AC As it retreats back to Paris, and I don't mean to speed up all the battles, but he's essentially like this diminished army. I think the thing that is the biggest realization is it's just France is over it. They're just not up for more war. It's been constant now. They're outmanned. The Allies forces are insurmountable essentially. It feels like it's this reckoning for Napoleon to come home and realize just nobody wants to fight anymore. And at that point he has no choice, it feels like, but to ultimately leave the throne. That's right. By 1813, people are just not signing up for the conscription that he had had to. Well,

that France, even before he became First Consul, had this Leveil Mass, as it was called, where the whole army, the whole country essentially, is put into uniform. And people are sick of it. They've lost too many killed. They send their sons up into the hills and the forests rather than to the recruiting stations. And although the actual battles that Napoleon carries on fighting, he very often wins, as I mentioned, the 1814. And battles are tremendously important, of course. I visited 53 of Napoleon's 60 battlefields in 10 countries in the course of writing this book. And so, you know, you can't underestimate the importance of battles, especially at the very end. But as you say, there's an economic and moral problem that hits France so heavily in 1813 and 1814 that by the April of 1814, I find as interesting as any, is he advocates the throne, he ends up in Elba, an island west of Italy, just east of Corsica, doesn't look like a terrible

place. At that point, basically it feels like the military respect of the other superiors where, okay, you've lost, you're done, you're not going to be emperor, so here's a nice little vacation home and we'll even escort you there even though you're still worried about the alliances of what's going on in the travel. I mean, on the way there, he's even worried about his own safety. But he hangs back and he calls it all. He's like, everybody's going to be really mad about how the country is run. And then he just kind of shows back up. I mean, I know I'm diminishing it a bit as the root Napoleon in 1815 when he ends up at Grenoble, but that part of the book was interesting in the speed with which it's just, hey, I'm back. Everybody. Yeah, it's like,

okay, cool. Let's, let's just do it all over again. Yeah. I mean, with within a year he abdicates in early April, 1814 by the 26th of February, he escapes from Elba, which by the way, as you say, it's a beautiful place. It's a, it's a lovely little island off the coast of Italy. It's a, it's very pretty. He's got a nice house there. You can visit it. It's a museum now and a house in the countryside as well. He could have lived out the rest of his

days as Emperor of Elba, but that isn't Napoleon. You wouldn't be reading my book if he had done that. The reason that Napoleon is Napoleon is because he has that kind of restless spirit and energetic sense and sense of destiny that gets him onto the ship on the 26th of February and he lands back in or near Cannes on the 1st of March 1815. I have two more things for you. on the 1st of March, 1815. I have two more things for you. We have carried the term Waterloo around for 200 years, but now after I read the book, I was like, you know what, it kind of felt like it was all over.

Like we can get into the strategy of Waterloo and losing to Wellington, who was this incredible general in Great Britain's history, but it didn't, it felt like Russia and Leipzig, that's when it was really over and that Waterloo was his last chance to try to revive a country and get back to power when in reality, they just still were so diminished

from the two previous routes. Well, obviously as an Englishman, I never want to underestimate Waterloo. And as you say, Wellington, along with the Duke of Marlborough, were the two greatest soldiers we ever had in our long history of warfare. But if he had won Waterloo, and if Wellington had been forced, like in 1940 in Dunkirk, off the continent and back to Britain with his army, that would not have stopped the 150,000 Austrians.

There go those Austrians. There go those Austrians again, and the 350,000 Russians who were marching on France. And so with an army of about 160,000, he'd have had to have faced half a million allies. So even if Waterloo, if he'd really won Waterloo, he'd have probably been forced to abdicate a second time. Ultimately, it doesn't work out Waterloo and he's sent to St. Helena. If you look at a map of the globe on that location, not exactly Elba, where he dies. You'll find it difficult to find on the map because it's the second most remote island in the world, inhabited island in the world.

It's sort of the bottom left-hand corner of the, sorry, right-hand corner of the Atlantic Ocean. I mean, it takes six days to get there, or at least it did when I had to go by boat. They've now got an airstrip, but it is unbelievably remote, yeah. So you do not recommend a weekend, a long weekend for holiday. I'm afraid remote, yeah. So you do not recommend a weekend, a long weekend holiday.

I'm afraid not, no. Let me finish with this. I guess I look at him as, you know, his undoing was what got him to his peak, right? His self-reliance, being his own man, figuring that it's all going to work out because it worked out so many other times. I think the number's 53 and seven in battle.

But this book is a pivot from, I think if you were just a walk up to somebody in the stream, you're like, hey, what do you think of Napoleon? There's comparisons to others. So I'd ask you this, I watched the Intelligent Square debate, which I really, really enjoyed. How much criticism do you receive for telling people I watched the Intelligent Square debate, which I really, really enjoyed.

How much criticism do you receive for telling a version of Napoleon that maybe rejects so many of the assumptions about him in history? A lot. I had one person come up and tell me at a literary event that I was essentially a traitor for making a sort of mildly positive case for Napoleon. This is in no sense a whitewash. I do point out to his war crimes when he committed them

and how he went too far and all of the things about him. But there are certain things about Napoleon that people just don't say. One of them was that the invasion of Russia, although it sounded insane, when he crossed the Neman with that enormous army, he had an army three times the size of the Russian army. He defeated the Russian army twice before on two different campaigns. He only intended to go about 50 miles into Russia in a three-week campaign. It wasn't the insanity that, say, Hitler declaring war against America in December 1941 wants. Russia was not an unenviable country in the way that the United States was unenviable, as far as the Germans were concerned, in the Second World War. So it's not a moment where he loses his sanity,

but he sucked further and further into Russia and that's where his judgment goes awry. Also, he didn't know that he was gonna lose 100,000 men of his central thrusting force to Typhus. Yeah, reading about the march back, I mean, it's one thing to die in battle. Guys are just in the march in the cold, leaving Russia, hoping to make it back to French territory. And they're just like, no, walking to the woods and you would hear gunshot just from guys blowing their brains out because they're like, I just can't do this anymore.

Losing limbs and other appendages on the march back, that chapter was intense. Andrew, there's so much more that I could talk with you about, but I don't want to spend more of the time than you've already spent on this topic, at least today. So as somebody who really enjoys history, I enjoyed getting a fuller scope of Napoleon the Man. So thanks again.

You are kind. It was great going on the show. I much enjoyed it. Bye bye. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. What's up?

I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. The email address is liveadvice, rr at gmail.com. Get your emails in. I promise we're gonna get a couple

that are more tailor-made to specific topics with some guests that we're gonna have. I just, you know, then life happened. Right. So we got to do a van soon. I think that's, that's definitely something we got to do. It's been too long for van. Van and I were on the phone the other day for like 20 minutes.

So that in itself would have been one of the most downloaded episodes I think we would have ever had. Love van, love van. Rare, very rarely, very rarely do you later in life connect with somebody the way I feel like I I don't know. I just sort of met him recently. Like, can you hang out? I was like, yeah, I can. I can't wait to see him. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym.

I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym.

I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym.

I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm like, I'm gonna started thinking about it. Somebody asked me about somebody else. They were like, well, how'd you meet that guy? I'm like, I don't know. I just sort of met him recently. Like, can you hang out? It was like, kinda. Like, he has really cool access to stuff. So he asked me to go and I go. And then there was somebody else.

Somebody asked me recently. I need some more access. Yeah, see, every time we bring up any of this stuff turns into the strain of the Ryan and Kyle thing. It's a bit, it's a bit guys. I think Kyle's gonna buy a tool ticket and be like, Ryan, do you wanna go? I got hooked up.

Yeah dude, where are they? Balcony? I don't know. Maybe hit me after. Use my bonus. I don't know maybe hit me after use my sorry man sorry we're with the bass player drummer but I don't think we can get you in here but yeah what do you all what are we good you good for life advice tomorrow at 11 all right let's see here we got got, can't leave the fly guys. We got a ton of feedback. I got some news real quick. I got some news.

Oh, okay. Way better. I'm going to see Dune tomorrow. No, I'm going to see Dune tomorrow for everybody that was asking. I'm super excited about it. I rewatched the first one the other day. That movie rips. I take back everything I said about even just being lukewarm about it. That movie is awesome and I'm super pumped and I'm going to take, we weren't lukewarm.

I'll take a picture of the popcorn that I bring home. Well, all we were doing was talking about how if you want to watch or think about something through the lens of like confirming something, okay? Like this is something else I think a lot about, but if I just decided, hey, I wanna not like something I like, I can probably figure out a path to get there.

And that's all we were doing. It was the Durant Dune comp. And then we went full circle and then brought it back around. Cause we got a pretty scathing email about it and I'm probably going to save it for Friday feedback, but I don't know how anyone could ever listen to that and not realize that we actually all really enjoyed it, but if you wanted to try to be that guy, this is what you would do. But I, like you, Sarudy, I love the movie Dune. First one, not as great.

There was a way someone could grab a clip where it's like, are we sure dude doesn't suck? Like there was probably 90 seconds where you could definitely extrapolate that clip from that little piece you're talking about. Imagine if we got, like Sean, the big pick plays a clip from our pod and being like, wow, those guys think this movie sucks. That'd be incredible.

Yeah. Especially you Saruti. Yeah. I mean, you've, you're a day one dune guy. All right. Um, we got a lot of feedback from the thinking of you text guys were screen grabbing their texts with their significant others, just saying, Hey, thinking of you, it was an off the charts success. If you are of a certain demographic, however, uh, hi guys, coming to you from

New Zealand, glad to hear you enjoyed the trip five, eight, 70 kilos podcast. Comp is a shorter, but better rug player than a PFT felt obliged to reach out for a quick PSA for older guys with a wife and kids texting, thinking of you. I was walking out of the office, uh, listening to the pod and flipped off the text as soon as you said to my wife immediately wanted, uh, my wife called immediately wanting to know what the fuck is up with me. It was a combination of who have you been sleeping with and, or has sleep deprivation gotten to him.

We have a five week old baby along with two toddlers who were driving me insane. Our texts range from has our baby pooped today or has either of the toddlers taken my seven iron to the neighbor's baby. Definitely not thinking of you. I tried to explain to her that it was a podcast thing before I could go any further. She told me I've used this excuse before. I once yelled, la-chees-a-ree at a stranger on a plane because he was listening to the cornheiser pod. Anyway, I felt the PSA was the right thing to do.

I'm sure it's too late for many. Did you guys do it? He's like, thanks guys. I'm doing a full text audit. She's going through everything I've ever liked. Thinking of you. Thank you. Are you cheating on me?

What's been going on? Did either of you guys do it? I didn't do it. I didn't do it. No. No. I would have got the same response. My wife would have been like, what did you do wrong?

Like, why? Like, I just not like you. You know, I am like a buy a flowers out of nowhere guy, but I'm not a text out of nowhere guy. So that would have been a red flag. Kyle, do it today. I just didn't feel like doing it. I think she would have been a red flag. Kyle, do it today. I just didn't feel like doing it. I think she would have liked it.

I just didn't feel like it. I'll do it. I'm in another place. Do it right now. That might actually be weird if I say that here. But who knows? In Vegas? Yeah, hold on.

You're in Vegas, yeah. Yeah, but I see what Kyle's, yeah. Yeah, come on. He's been there for 24 hours and now he's like, I love you, come on. Yeah. Yeah, don't do it. We've talked about this relationship.

We can't, Kyle can't do that. Honestly, good point, my bad, yep. All right, well, glad we put our heads together on that one. Thanks, boys. All right, making decision on jobs, going out of college, 22 years old, six, five, 180. Nice. I don't work out because I'd rather play golf or hoop. Player comp, Yanis.

All right, you lost me. He just went for it. I'm currently a senior at an SEC school. Yeah, yeah, right. Maybe he just puts his shoulder down and there's nothing, they build a wall. He's got his buddies when they go out drinking, they drink, they chant like Trump just saying build that wall.

Cause he's so much like Giannis. Uh, all right. Currently deciding between, yeah, I know. Right. Well, deciding between two jobs that are similar, but different work environments. I'm planning to move home after graduation with close proximity to a big city to save money, both jobs are 30 minute commute. Job one's with a company I interned for this past summer and still do today. I'd be working with a team I know well. In this role, I would be able to maintain a

great work-life balance working 40, 50 hours a week. This role would also allow me to work with every sector within my industry, making it a very diversified way to grow my knowledge for the future. I would also need to spend close to two grand and a hundred hours learning a new computer software for starting the role. Job two, joining a bigger company that has better name recognition will also pay slightly more. This team is led by bosses who are known well in my industry

but can be very intense and demanding. Some may call them assholes. I can be an asshole myself though, that doesn't concern me. All right, a little tougher to be the young asshole versus the old asshole. Just a warning. The work life balance of this is not desirable working 55 to 65 hours a week on average and 80 per 80 plus hours a week on the high end. This role is much more specified, but if I can make it through this role,

doors are open that wouldn't in job one. Both teams are looking for a three to four year commitment. Should I just suck it up and grind out the long hours knowing that job two would pay better and lead to potentially better in the future? I don't mind working like a dog all day if it's worth something in the end. Okay, I know my answer.

And it may not be for the reasons. Yeah, I think you guys would be surprised. You guys might be surprised, but I would pick the two job. You would do both at the same time? Oh, job number two. No, no, the second job. I was like, yeah, I am surprised. Yeah, I am surprised.

No, I know what you're saying. I think especially at that age, that's cool. You have the bandwidth at that age. It's not like your other parts of your life aren't gonna suffer because they don't even really exist. I think that's a good age to do something like that. I think it's probably a more desirable job for more people too. You think of it that way.

Like, wow, I'm lucky enough to be able to take this one. I would just do it. The other part of it is there is value in jumping around jobs period. Just look at the market now. When people move jobs, that's how you get raises. That's how you get more money. I know some people value loyalty and that's great too. You started this place, you intern there and there's obviously some feelings there. I don't

know. I think being a young professional is seeing what's out there every couple of years. This is only a couple of your commitment and it sucks and you hate it. At least you made some money and then you can move on and pivot to a different to a different direction. So yeah, I think it's kind of a no brainer. The other thing too, there's a couple of things I want to touch on here. I would lean towards job too because everything that I've done and this is again my opinion and just the decisions that I've made, I'd be like, okay, if I do this now, then where will I be in three years or five years or the longer version of it? You know, there's a lot of times at ESPN where I was like, I think I'm over this.

I was like, yeah, but if you stick this out, like a couple more years, I remember one time my contract was up and I was making the rounds figuring out what else was out there and there was a place that I kind of liked, it was going to be in New York city full time. I'd always want to try to live in the city. Now I, you know, those, that windows closed, I think, but the guy that wanted to hire me was like, wait, what's going on? He's like, they're going to put your name on the show.

I was like, yeah. He's like, don't even talk to us. He's like, even if we pay you more, like what's, what's the point? Your name's going to be on an ESPN afternoon show. Like that's done. End of conversation. He's like, do that for a few more years and then you're going to have more name recognition and far more value when you go back to market another three years.

Then he's like, if you come here, there's no way, I don't care what you do. There's no way you'll ever match the, the market. And again, that's when radio back then, it was still pre podcast. It was still like a pretty powerful thing to be able to say, okay, I'm one of five people in the country that has his name on a show for the, and I know there are names on other shows, but you know, the way radio historically works, not to diminish other shows on other slots, but it's the morning, midday and afternoon. Like those, those are how stations are built.

So I was like that before that conversation. I'm certainly like that after the conversation, but here's something that you might not be thinking about. And another quick thing that's worth, it's, you can say each place wants a three to four year commitment. You know, okay, whatever. It doesn't mean, I don't know how your contract would work specific for that. Um, but this isn't like you're signing with the Ravens, you know, it's

likely something where after a couple of years, if you don't feel like it's working out or you get a better opportunity, then you're just going to make a move anyway, or if you were after two years going, you know, it's likely something where after a couple of years, if you don't feel like it's working out or you get a better opportunity, then you're just going to make a move anyway. Or if you were after two years going, you know, I don't want to work this much. The fact that you're saying that you're okay with it, like the way you're describing both and saying, Hey, this one's going to be a little better balance, this one more work, a little more intense, whatever, whatever. But it doesn't sound like you're freaked out by it.

It sounds like you know what you're going to be signing up for. The one thing, the first thing that I thought of, well, I guess I've thought of multiple things here, but the first thing that I thought of was. Because you have a history with the other place, that might be a massive advantage, but it can also be a little weird based on everyone's entry point, where they work. And entry point is a massive, massive factor in how you were perceived. And there's always the chance that if you're the summer intern, that then becomes full time, that

there could be coworkers that are still looking at you as the intern. I know that's not fair and it's certainly not across the board and there may be more advantages because you've already established a relationship. So I'm not framing it only as a negative. I'm just raising the possibility that that potential exists to be a negative.

But again, I don't know. I don't know what the workplace is like, because I've seen places where, you know, the guy that was just the young dude telling stories and all of a sudden he's like, go to workstation and he's supposedly real, you know, it's a bit like. Going from a pledge to a brother, and then you show up to the house, technically a brother the weekend after, you're no longer a pledge thinking,

man, everything's gonna be different. And then the old guys are still like, you're still a fucking loser. And you're like, oh. You must've eaten your pubes last week, dude. What the fuck? Whoa, whoa, all right. I don't know what goes on.

I don't know what goes on. That's what Kyle thinks happens. I don't know, I don't know what goes on. I don't know what goes on. That's exactly what you did. That's what Kyle thinks happens. I don't know, I quit the Latino fraternity before we got to see what really was going on. So I don't know, I can only assume. How were you a treasurer then if you quit? I was treasurer of the prospect group.

So basically we were just a gang at that point. So like, you know, this guy quit, but he's so good with money. Let's make him treasure. Spent it all made it all back. Unbelievable. Do you guys think long term like that? Well, off your story, I remember you told me you gave me advice years ago is this is when I was running the board on SVP and Rossello. And I don't know, I don't know what my future held. And there was an opening on Mike and Mike and the bosses at ESPN wanted me to,

to basically take it. And it was like a jump up in responsibility. Obviously that was like the biggest show at the time. And I kind of didn't want to do it. I'm not a morning guy. And I know it's not jumping companies, but I basically jumped to a different job. And you know, I was working with you at the, yeah, it was, I mean, I hated it. Well, not because the guy, I just wasn't. It's a different lifestyle.

Like the vibes, it totally is. I would sleep in two different, I told this before, I would sleep like four hours in the afternoon, four hours at night, because I wanted to watch games. But you were basically like, and this is when I was working on the show with you, you were like, you have to take this job. Like you have to move on. And I did it for I think the, I think I did a pretty good job.

And then like the bosses kind of were like, Hey, I could tell you're miserable. Like we're going to, there's some things moving around. And then that was when Van Pelt left. And then I ended up getting, you know, I think that was the, what the associate producer with you and Danny. So it ended up being like a net positive, but you know, it was a miserable year, but you have to do it to kind of move up. So it's good advice. You gave me back in the day. have to do it to kind of move up. So it's Mike.

Mike, good advice. You gave me back in the day. And I think it's kind of the same thing now. Yeah. It was the right move, but it's tough, but you were at least were young enough, but that is, I never want to do that again. And I haven't done it in 20 years. No, I would never do it. Nope. Yeah. Okay. I'd wake up at three 30 AM. I didn't can't do that. Start my day. I wonder if I ever if I had ever done the morning show if I would have now I already know the answer the answer is no but just if I had ever become comfortable enough where I'm like all right

I'm making all this money and shows killing it I'm just going to show up at 5 45. I'm just going to show up at 5 45. I mean. I'll tell you 5 45 is still pretty early too, but. I don't know. I don't know if I could see you doing that. I just don't think I could. I wouldn't. I don't. I don't know that I ever want to get to a point with this job where I'm like, yeah, I don't care. Just hit it record. Okay. I don't want to read that. No, I just was.

Sometimes I just look. We're not. No, no, it's just sometimes it can be a little repetitive, obviously, you know, but I just, I don't know. I'm not in the mood to read that one today. We should do one where it's just life advices that are trying to touch on topics that we've never ever touched on before. Like just completely break out from the comfort zone of just confusion of dudes. The confusion of the dudes. Right. That would be Kyle's, that would be his U S tour.

All right. A new look, life advice. Yeah. Well, what are you talking about? Like, I don't, I don't even, maybe I don't even know what I'm talking about. I guess something that doesn't have to do with a roommate or somebody cheating on somebody is essentially what I'm saying. Yeah. But yeah,

like there's other ones where I'll read and be like, I don't think I have any good perspective on this. I, I'm the wrong guy to ask, but that's not always stopped us. We've been more than comfortable. I think that's part of the charm. If you ask me, what's your take on international relations? Well, you know, where should I start?

Well, it depends on what your goals are as a as a civilization. Let's start there. OK. Arguing sports with non sports. You guys ever try that video game civilization? Either of you? Of course, yeah, my buddy hated it. That's a different civilization. Arguing sports with non-sports. Did you guys ever try that video game, Civilization? Either of you? Oh, of course.

Yeah, my buddy did. I hated it. I hated it. Couldn't get into it, Kyle. It's like all turn-based. I'm an Age of Empires guy. I like real-time. I don't like this turn-based nonsense.

Yeah. I was definitely more of an Age guy, but I played Civ here and there. I tried it and that was just like, what's going on? I was just excited. You know, I wanted some kind of SimCity thing, like peak SimCity. That stuff was incredible. I mean, I'm embarrassed to admit how into it.

I was, I was like, all right, I'm going to set up sort of a luxury housing area over here by this lake. But I was like, Oh, they're mad about the schools. Like, why don't they just start their own charter school? They've got the money. Okay. Arguing sports with non-sports people. Hey guys, 24 years old, player comp six three, Luke Cornett.

My question is, should I bother arguing sports with non-sports people? I run into this problem a lot where I can tell immediately the person I'm talking to who knows nothing about sports, well they try to argue something dumb and I've decided between battling them on their dumb take or just biting my tongue.

My prime example is this coworker I have, uh, he's in his early forties. I don't see that's, you know, he already just thinks he's smarter than you. Uh, he watches barely any sports, but makes the most outrageous sports claims. She get the TV show. The one that triggered me to write this email was him saying, quote, Steph Curry is not the greatest shooter of all time. When I hit him with the stats to prove he, when I hit him with the stats to prove that he is, his response was, quote, what's he shooting?

Just threes. If he went inside, he would get crushed. I kind of gave up at that point because I, we did say best, like wasn't the argument best shooter, not best lay upper. That's what you should do. Hit him with that. Just drop it right on his dome. It's my nugget.

I kind of gave up at that point because I realized number like we just found our new guy for countdown. Perfect. We'll say anything. Yeah. Like, no, he's a block. Cause a block material. Like LeBron just retired.

Sorry. All right. I kind of gave up that point because I realized there was no getting through to him, but this is just one of the many hot takes he has that makes no sense. It even worth trying to argue with him about these awful takes or just, do I just let it slide though it lights a fire in me hearing that of course it lights a fire in you, that's a ridiculous thing to say. And you're 24. So with age, you just start the great thing about, I would say the list of being young, uh, the great

things about being young is probably longer than the great things about being old, but I could also just be talking about injuries. So I may have the worst perspective. Others are talking about grandchildren and I'm like, you know, I think you got me there. So what I would say is that as you get older though, you just don't have, you hope, you hope that you mellow out enough. Although I wouldn't necessarily say I'm mellow, but there's

just things that you go, yeah, I'm not going to get mad about that. Like, hey, you want to be a fucking moron? Be a moron. I remember there was a time was every now and then the age gap would show up with Van Pelt and I were Stanford Steve and I were arguing about something that we agreed on and we disagreed with Van Pelt on and Van Pelt completely thought we were like morons about this thing that we were arguing. And I'm not going to say what it was because it was about someone. And Van Pelt just looked at us and I just never forget it. That's why I'm telling the story now is he just looked at us and went,

no, really? That's what you guys think? Okay. And that was it. And it was the perfect, it was the, it was unbelievable. Cause then Steve and I just felt stupid. Cause we were so certain of what we were saying, the point that we were making, we agreed about this person, Van Pelt disagreed. And Van Pelt just heard us all out.

It was like, oh yeah, that's what you guys think? Okay. And then it's over, it's fucking over. And he didn't have to use any of his power reserve, right? He was still a full, full, we're talking video games here. It was all still there because he didn't have to use any moves on us.

It was unbelievable. You're like, God, he feels bad for us. God, it's so embarrassing. Yeah, right. He thinks, he's like, God, those guys are so stupid. And now the argument is over because he doesn't want to engage in it. So I think at 24, it's hard to get there,

but you might entertain the hell out of yourself. Every time he says that, just ask a quick follow-up and you'd be like, huh, that's interesting. And then just don't engage. Make that your routine. Try to get to that point emotionally. We were like, why am I going to get mad? It's somebody that can't be convinced. It's the same way when I look at some social media arguments that go on in the comments

the whole time and maybe it's somebody, it's a public figure and then someone that isn't. I just like, would you ever get out of your car at a seven 11 and the dude who's out front asking you to buy him something if he had said, Hey, this is what I think about the economy. Would you go, well, state your case. You probably wouldn't. All right. Well, state your case. You probably wouldn't.

I got to tell you, there's something that's amazing about not wanting to argue. This is for somebody who loved to argue, who actually still enjoys conflict or confrontation at times. But there's just a piece that you can reach, which may be really tough at 24. Like what else are you gonna do? You gonna go home and read basketball reference and just hand him, he doesn't care.

He's never going to agree. Yeah, it doesn't matter. There's nothing you can do. The best thing you can do is really tie with somebody like this. There are no wins. Yeah. I mean, I think my answer was going to be completely dependent on how often do you see this person? If this is like, you know, two, three times a week and you guys are, you know, passing each other in the hallways or in the, in the lunchroom and he's just firing stuff off.

Yeah. You got to totally disengage. But if this was like a brother-in-law that you see three times a year and you're like, I can't wait to see what dumb shit he throws at me this time. So I think, I think, uh, in that case, you're, you're definitely a hundred percent right. And I think your execution is flawless. I would not change anything about how you told them to go about that. That's great. The van Pelt story is funny because, and I mean, we love Van Pelt, but he,

more than probably anybody I know, likes to argue with random people on Twitter. So the fact that he just let you and Steve just kinda let it go is a little surprising to me. But maybe that was just like him being like, that was a big dog move where he was like, I'm just gonna piss these guys off by not caring, which is a great move, as you said. The not caring thing as you get older,

because then that just pisses the person off even more. The non-argument argument is such a great move. And I've sort of, I've moved to that point in my life on certain things like this. I do take the bait on Twitter sometimes that things like really, really piss me off. But, cause younger me, I mean, you know, I've pulled these stories before,

like I got into it with a guy who was disrespecting Brendan Shanahan at like college party and I just like, couldn't let it go. I was like, you're gonna talk like that about Hartford Whaler great Brendan Shanahan? And my buddies were like, why are you yelling right now and I just wouldn't do that now. Like I think you just grow out of it I don't really care what you think what Shanahan he just said he was like it. I don't know that he was like a shithead and whatever

I'm like, I don't care man. He was an awesome hockey player. Like I like them. He played for the Whalers Yeah, I don't care, man. He was an awesome hockey player. Like I liked him. He played for the whalers. How dare you? Yeah. And I was just, how old were you again? I was, you had to be so young. It was 30 to care about Shanahan that much though. Like how old were you prime whalers years? Uh, I was like 10 maybe.

Yeah. All right. 1112. I mean, I think they left in 97. But like, that was the most I was into hockey was when I was a kid and then they moved when I was, you know. My roommate wrote a college paper on it.

So I remember. Yeah, it sucked. It is Stu Grimson Jersey. I took it pretty seriously as you could tell. And, but I wouldn't do that today. Like I just, I've, I've just sort of not, I was way more emotional back then, and now I just love the play of not caring and having that piss somebody off even more.

I am biased because of my own career, but I've always felt like, we did this radio segment with Van Pelt years ago where it was basically our sports is sports. The topic that the most people feel comfortable talking about, not knowing anything about it. Or is it just this, is it just that like, I know. Yeah.

We've got an election this year. I would argue that there's, there's a lot of people are less comfortable about throwing that out, depending on who they're talking to. Yeah, that's what I'm just saying. Like if you knew nothing, if you knew nothing about sports and there were three or four other people, would you offer up your opinion? In like a more comfortable way, I don't think he could do it.

Yeah, I don't know. I just don't think he could do it. Yeah, I don't know. I just don't think so. That little guy? Not watching any Niners games. Yeah. It also could be my perspective as somebody who's basically spent his entire professional life in it

that I'd be like, wait, if this is how I look at it, does that mean like imagine just walking up to a bunch of like finance guys and be like, how did they come up with 401,000? You know, like just, I don't, I don't know. I don't know if it's my. Sure. So let me explain to you how this works.

It's a lot like fish. Remember Anthony Bourdain? Right. That's what they did. And there was the A's and the B's and the C's. Yeah. No, I got it. I got it too. Uh, all right. I think what they did. And there were the A's and the B's and the C's. Yeah. No, I got it. I got it too. All right. I think that's it.

That was good. Okay. Was it? Good luck with that. Yep. All right. Thanks to Sruti. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Oregon. It's Ryan Russo podcast. Our YouTube channel is up and live. I think a million subs already. Pretty excited about that. Please subscribe to the ringer Spotify podcast the must be twenty one older present select states and it was offering online sports

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