The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Heat-Bucks and Harden’s Turnaround, Understanding the MLB Lockout With Evan Drellich, Plus 'Winning Time' Cocreator Jim Hecht

Episode Date: March 3, 2022

Ryen opens with some NBA observations, including an impressive Bucks win over the Heat, why he doesn’t want to hear about James Harden’s hamstring injury again, and why we can’t talk about G League stats (0:35). Next he chats with The Athletic’s Evan Drellich for a deeper understand the MLB lockout and where both sides go from here (13:03). Then, he talks about the new HBO show 'Winning Time' with cocreator Jim Hecht, including growing up a Laker fan, how the project came to be, and casting Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (36:12). And finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:00:03). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Evan Drellich and Jim Hecht Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's podcast we have tales from the couch mba observations including harden and this new look sixers bucks went over the geats and other stuff as well g league nugget for you evan drelic on mlb's stalled negotiations He's been terrific on it. And also Jim Hecht, who is one of the lead writers. The new Lakers series, Winning Time on HBO and Life of Us. I'm going to start today's show with a little tales from the couch and the NBA stuff that I was looking at. We'll sprinkle in a few nuggets as well.

Here's the deal. I was really excited about Milwaukee and Miami because I'm still kind of waiting for this last push from the Milwaukee Bucks, where I feel like, all right, if everything's normal, am I going to end up picking them out of the East? And especially against a really good team in Miami that I have so much respect for because of how hard they compete, how good they are defensively. And I was watching the other night. They're just all like when you watch the middle of how good they are defensively. And I was watching the other night. They're just all like when you watch the middle of where they're at defensively and how the ball swings, they're actually paying attention to everything.

It's a credit to Spolster. It's a credit to them. I'm not going to make a heat culture joke, but it's just it's really impressive to watch when you're kind of focusing on things that you don't normally focus on. You're not watching the ball swing, but you're watching how the players in the interior how they you know have helplines they're paying attention to it's just awesome right and it was really funny because i think the miami game was the first game that i saw the beginning of this week immediately after watching the lakers lose the pelicans and i was like going all right the last game i watched was

i don't know uh 16 17 hours ago and now I'm watching this game, and it looks like two completely different sports. So I bring all that up because into it, Milwaukee comes out in that first quarter. I'm thinking, all right, here we go. Here we go, Milwaukee Bucs. This is the team I'm looking for because offensively, I'm not really worried about them, but defensively, a Bucs team with that much length, and I know that Lopez being out changes some things with specific matchups. But still, they're 16th defensively since January 1st. And I start to use that January 1st marker as we kind of clear out the rest of the season. But then Miami goes up 113-99 in the fourth quarter. So

7-12 left. And I'm thinking, all right, Milwaukee looks a little like their energy is not matching Miami's energy. Miami was running some stuff with this kind of three-man game thing, which still they're running late, where it's Butler, Hero, and Bam, and they're looking at kind of getting Hero on Wes Matthews. And by the way, just to throw some Tyler Hero numbers at you, he's at 19 field goal attempts per 36, so he's not taking 19 shots per game. But when you watch him and how much freedom he has in this offense, they not only create dribble probe, all that kind of stuff.

He is not just some spot up guy, which I think most of you already knew that. But this is somebody who is getting more shots up and has become a more efficient player. And if you look at the per 36 averages at 19 per 36, he's clearly the number one option, even though it feels like it's Jimmy Butler. I mean, he's still like three plus shots ahead of Butler on those per 36. There's stretches where Butler is not always, you know, the guy, which is actually, you know what the point it's nice. They have multiple things that you have to defend. And this again is all without Kyle Lowry and also usually having one or two shooters that you have to respect enough to close out on. So it's a really nice group. They go up 14 points and I'm thinking, God, like what is

up with Milwaukee? And then the Bucs come all the way back. That defense that has not been that great has been averaged certainly by Bucs standards below average, held the heat to six points over the last 7-12 of this game. Drew Holiday hits the game winner. I mentioned it last night, the collision with Gabe Vincent. I think most of you got it, that that should never be a charge. It should never, ever, ever be a charge. Being in front of somebody and falling down is different than establishing position. This goes back to

Gunny and I freaking out about charges a couple weeks ago. And that shot by Drew, by the way, like this floater over Bam, who's coming over and is almost perfectly aligned to help on top of all of that. Giannis had a stretcher. I think he scored the only 10 points of the fourth quarter. They were all him.

And even though it's not always the prettiest, it's just so unstoppable once he gets any kind of momentum that everybody just kind of stops and deals with it. So nice win for the Bucs. Miami, no Lowry. Don't know that it changes all that much as they're still trying to handicap what the rest

of this East is going to look like. Speaking of the East, James Harden. Never heard of him. 26-9-9 last night for the Sixers in a very convincing win against the Knicks,

even though the Knicks were up early. Felt like the Knicks are still hanging around a little bit. Harden looks totally different. I don't want to hear about this hamstring ever again.

All right? If you're a Nets fan watching what Harden is doing now in these three games and the passion and energy that he's playing with, it's a completely different guy. It just is. He's setting screens. They were running this action last night that J.J. Redick brought up, who, by the way, we're a big J.J. Redick fans,

but him saying how great Harden's defense is, especially in the post, was one of my favorite moments of last night because national television media rule, when you're doing a Harden game, you have to say actually his defense isn't that bad and that he's actually terrific in the post because everybody runs post plays now in the NBA. So Harden, 26-9-9, looks different,

setting screens. Maxie now in the three games, who I was worried because, you know, Maxie's just not going to have the basketball enough. Off ball, and they're also, this is something Sixers fans probably appreciate, Doc isn't going full bench lineups. It's like, hey, let's throw in five guys that aren't starters for some of these stretches, which, you know, I don't know, Doc likes doing sometimes, but that's not what he's doing.

He's splitting up Harden and Embiid and then finishing with them as well in the fourth quarter something to pay attention to there Maxie how about these numbers in his three games and I look I don't think this is going to hold up but him off the ball which is kind of the great thing about Maxie as a prospect is that he was comfortable with it comfortable off of it and now because he's not going to be initiating so much stuff and we'll see you how, if Harden's still setting screens for guys and doing all these really energy-type things towards the end of the regular season, because there's always a bit of a honeymoon period. But Max, he's 28, 21, and 25 in his last three games.

12 of 16, 8 of 14, 7 of 12. And he's making 65% of his threes. And Bede is taking less shots and taking more free throws. They beat the Timberwolves, the Knicks, the Knicks. All right, fine. Best duo in the NBA. Feels a little quick for that. I don't want to sound like a hater, but before we start penciling in that this is clearly the best duo in the NBA, I want to see it a little bit longer. I want to see it against the better teams. And we're also talking about somebody hardened post-OKC getting out of the second round once,

and Embiid has never been past it. And aside for the Knicks, who are possibly easy to defend, by the way, they are 25th in offense since January 1st. The only teams that are worst offensively behind them are all teams that are tanking. I have now, this podcast, we have raised our target price for R.J. Burick. I was kind of in and out right when I would start to love him.

And I'm talking about like what he can be. He's good, right? But I'm talking about RJ as a star, like somebody, and I don't like to say one because none of these guys can do it by themselves. And so I'm not even saying that are RJ Barrett. All I'm telling you is that watching him closer more and more this season, because I know he's had flashes, but then I always felt like, and then that it's kind of not there.

I think it's there. There's a freedom. Look, maybe it's the Miami game. You know, he had 46. They lost the game. But there's a swagger and confidence that he has that I'm noticing more now where it's changing the way I think about R.J. Barrett is all I'm saying. It's not like, hey, specifically this part of his shot or this part of his offense. There's just an eye test thing with R.J. with the way he fits in now to games and how he sees himself that I think is really cool.

And is something that you can have some hope for as a Knicks fan, which we're realizing with the Knicks, but they just were way over their skis last year. It wasn't a great basketball team. They won a bunch of games. They defended. They seemed more prepared. They had better depth. And Randall was just a better player last year, but Randall's just kind of easy to prepare for.

He just is. And unless he's going to be making impossible shots, which it felt like he was making all the time last year, he can be somebody that kind of becomes, the offense becomes a little stagnant. Even if I'm telling you, look, I know it's been tough for Randall this year, but I'm not like somebody that hates Julius Randall. Speaking of the tanking teams, by the way, Houston last night went to overtime with Utah. The amount of stuff they did wrong and still work was phenomenal.

When I watched Kevin Porter Jr., he had an ISO on Gobert, and there could have been 700 help defenders standing behind Gobert, and Porter Jr. was going to go one-on-one. Christian Wood hit a step-back three to tie the game and send it to overtime. And then Wood also gave

the home crowd the celebration, which I never quite understood that. Your home, you hit a huge shot, the place is going crazy, and then you tell everybody to be quiet. I think that just means that we're used to guys seeing that. I did see an interesting celebration earlier this week, though. Jalen Suggs for the Magic, who hit a big three

and did the Wes Matthews Archer move into the Lance Stevenson air guitar. Not sure that I've seen the arrow slash guitar double celebration from somebody, but it was a big three for Suggs, so we'll give it to him. So Houston did all of these things incredibly wrong. Some of their drives. Jalen Green had a nice game last night. Garrison Matthews did take a 30-footer with 10 seconds left on the shot clock.

That was an air ball, so that wasn't the best play they ran last night, but Houston showing a little bit of fight there. Okay. Oklahoma city real quickly. It's a good thing. Sam Presti is Sam Presti and not Sam Hinky because he might lose his job for some of these lineups that are out there. And I'm kidding because everybody knows Presti is a really good GM,

but he's also built up enough equity in the NBA circles because of all these teams that he's put together with the Thunder. Hinky had done none of those things, and that is the biggest difference. So anybody to say like, hey, what's up with the Thunder and their tanking roster? Yeah, okay, but nobody could figure Henke out except for the writers that all defended him nonstop all the time. All right, so the Thunder played a guy last night named Lindy Waters III out of Oklahoma State.

He's played, I think, five games this season. Let me double check that. Seven. We also had another dude out of Kentucky, Oliver Saar. He's played six games. And our last dude checking in is a second rounder for the Wizards,

Vit Krejci, who is now 10 games in to his Oklahoma City. I'm just trying to help you in case you land on a Thunder game. That's all I'm doing there. All right, final point here. G League numbers.

I've tried to help with this before. I'm going to keep trying. So Isaiah Thomas is back in the league. Charlotte got 10 points last night. Good for him. Never rooting against Isaiah Thomas. Just think people kind of overstate it a little bit with him in that Celtics year. It was a great year.

It was fun for the fans with all that stuff. They ran single high pick and roll every position for the entire season. And he was awesome. And it worked because that team wasn't that great. And they made it to the Eastern Conference Finals. But whenever I see somebody promote G League numbers, and they'll kind of be

like, you know, look at what this guy was doing. This is incredible. Have you paid attention to G League scoring numbers ever? Now, the answer is probably no. You just see a league pass broadcast and they talk about their first round pick and that he had 86 the other day.

And I know you're kidding. Nick Stauskas had 57 two nights ago. All right, I'm going to go through the top 10 scores in the G League so far this season. Saban Lee, 27 a game. Justin Anderson, 27 a game. Craig Randall II, 26 a game.

Mason Jones, 26 a game. Carson Edwards, 26 a game. Stauskas, sixth in scoring. Quindry Weatherspoon. Santa Cruz Warriors, getting you 25 a game. Trevillan Queen you 25 a game. Trevillan Queen, 25 a game. Justin Tillman,

24 a game. And then Justin Jackson, who is a familiar name for the Texas Legends. He's 10th in scoring in the G League, 24 a game. The next time you're watching

League Pass and they put up a graphic of the first or second rounder and then what he's doing. And then they go back to the announcers and be like, man, this is incredible. Gabe York had 40 last night. How come that guy's not in the league?

I just told you why he's not. Evan Jurelik covers baseball for The Athletic. He has been one of the best resources for information on the collective bargaining negotiations. So let's kind of start with, you know, it feels like the three points. We don't need to get all the smaller stuff. Just kind of where we're at, how we got here,

and then kind of your thoughts moving forward. Let's start with the competitive balance tax. It was rebranded as luxury tax years ago, which is supposed to make everybody feel better about it. It isn't. There's a massive gap between the union and owners proposals on this one. And to fully understand this, kind of just take it wherever you want to go. Yeah, there are two elements of this on the CBT, the competitive balance tax, which is the luxury tax. One is the threshold, simply the amount of money a team can spend before it's penalized. And then there's a question of once it does get penalized, how badly are you getting taxed?

How big is the hit to the owner's wallet? One of the big points of contention early in this, well, really up until our time in Florida, was that MLB was trying to increase the amount of money a team pays to go over it. So forget where it's set. But simply, if you go over the thing, they were trying to put in at one point a 50% first tax rate. It used to be 20%. And now MLB has come down on that and said, all right, we're going to keep it at 20%.

And that was important to the players. And frankly, it was kind of always obvious that MLB was never going to get away with raising how harshly you're taxed just by going over that first tier. So now the argument is about what is that first tier and subsequently every other tier after. There are three tiers. And if you hit the next tier, you get taxed more harshly. MLB has gotten up to 220 on that first tier. The previous one in the last CBA was 210. So they're up $10 million. The players in their most recent proposal have asked for 238 million. So almost a gap of $20 million, $18 million on that first tier. And it escalates over time, over the life of the deal.

And that was the case in the past. But the players want this to go up because as you pointed out revenues have increased and uh if you look back you know there were teams spending around 200 million about 20 years ago right the yankees were doing it back then uh if you look at 2003 and that era the the great heyday the red sox the yankees so the argument for the players is uh you're making more money you you gotta let your team spend it but see i guess the point that i you know i threw a stuff ton of stuff at you and didn't really even ask a question so great start out of me but when you look at the dodgers um they were the they got a tax bill of 32 million last year i just think it's crazy that, wait, the league is basically saying, let's kind

of flatten what that tax threshold is on the first tier. Let's increase the penalties. And yet nobody's even passing it. So to me, this just feels like we're going to call it whatever we want to call it, but we're trying to get a salary cap out of this. Oh, yeah. Look, the owners for all of time and for all of time will want to have a salary cap in baseball. And it's kind of the irony of that 1994-1995 strike. The last time you had a work stoppage in baseball was 1994-1995. And the players really successfully fought off a formal salary cap. That was the big single issue in 1994-1995. But what was the thing that actually was introduced coming off of that? And that was luxury tax. For the first time

in the sport, you had this mechanism and it was advertised as being this thing that was going to increase competitive balance and parity, stop the Yankees from outspending everybody. And maybe for a time it was actually functioning that way. But what's happened since is the owners have essentially weaponized it to serve their overall interests in suppressing player salary, right? It's all about cost control. That's what a salary cap does. You can talk about parity and all these other things.

But at the end of the day, a salary cap is a good thing for management. There's a reason in hockey you had a lockout for a year to get it. There's a reason the owners in all the other sports have pushed for it, and the baseball owners still want it. And so the owners in baseball know right now they're not getting a salary cap, but that doesn't mean they don't want as many mechanisms as they can possibly find to act as close to one. And Max Scherzer said it the other day the day that they canceled games

that uh the CBT has acted like a de facto luxury cap and a salary cap and in in some cases he's right yeah he's right because if you go through the history each year of how many teams actually go over even the first tier of it it's not happening so that's why I'm like wait you're still trying to hammer these penalties and this is just playing it down the road for whatever new TV agreement it are whatever the new regional stuff is, because despite what people would think of baseball nationally, the revenue, especially local and those regional sports networks, the RSNs and all that stuff, like people, I still don't think understand. People say, Hey, baseball is a great topic on my national radio show. Okay, fine.

Have you seen what the primetime numbers are for six months in more than half of these 30 baseball markets and how valuable this property still is? So then to implement all of these first, second, third tier tax penalties, and basically try to keep that number where again, the owners are proposing 214 million to 220 million over like a five-year stretch. It's because they're actually getting that now all right so when we look at caps and basketball and hockey and football the reason we have them is because we'll say oh at least we have a minimum i looked at the last couple i went like i don't know over the last 10 years of the bottom 10 salaries right the average salary for the bottom 10 teams so take the top 20 we're looking at the bottom 10 The average salary in 2015 for a bottom 10 team was 83.6 million.

In 2021, it was 72 million. So it's actually gone down. And now you can make an argument with COVID and some of that stuff. And I know that's exactly what the owners would do, but that's insane. That's insane that the bottom 10 averages have actually gone down while they're trying. So this is where I know the players have said, and I was reading something 2009 it's like we want the goose not the duck like we have the goose where we still philosophically do not have a hard cap on anything we're doing but they're not getting the benefit now and that's where i wonder where the union if that'll ever pivot away and being

like okay well can we make it on the bottom here if we're still getting hammered at the top right basically you're saying because in some cases, the CBT ends up acting like a cap should the players just say, screw it and kind of go get the benefit of the cap. If they have the negative right now without the benefit of it, are they kind of shooting themselves

in the foot? And this is something I've talked to people about a lot for a long time. There are some people who think that the players will never again be able to kind of claw back the share of the pie that they had before. That the owners have gotten too smart and it'll never happen and eventually they're going to be forced to it. That might be the case. It is not the belief of the current leadership at the Players Association. And I think if we were to talk to third party economists and people who understand the math behind all this,

and probably if you talk to people at the other unions as well, they would say a cap is a bad idea. You might gain a little bit in the short term, but you are cutting off the ability long term to ever have an owner that wants to do some runaway spending. Steve Cohen, if he chooses to be the next George Steinbrenner, LeBron James, if he played baseball, is making double what he's making in the NBA. And there is a reason that the owners have always wanted a salary cap. It is because it is fundamentally, by definition, something that benefits them. That doesn't mean that in a short-term setting, it couldn't benefit players. But what happens is, and you've seen this in the other leagues, in basketball, right? Over time, once you go into a cap system, let's say you start out at 57% of revenues going to players.

What's the next negotiation going to be about? It's going to be about getting that percentage of revenue down. The owners are going to say, What's the next negotiation going to be about? It's going to be about getting that percentage of revenue down. The owners are going to say, no, you're getting too much. You're getting too much. We got to knock this thing down to 50. And then down and down you go. And you will never, ever get out of that system if you're the players. And it really is this fundamental thing that they've stood on for years. So your point is taken, but I think the players look at it as the league would be bringing the water to the fire it started. If all of a sudden now you go to a salary cap, well, that's what they want.

They wanted to push you to make you think, if you're the players, that this is what you had to do. Right. And you made a terrific point, too, on just where the union says, no, we don't believe in that. Because philosophically, they have to keep convincing themselves of that as well. And you're right. they have to keep convincing themselves of that as well. And you're right. But I think the harder part of it then is, because I'm not saying, hey, they should just accept a cap system so that they have a higher floor. I mean, the fact that any of the owners would want to be in business with guys owning a team at $50 million in total salary in the 2020s is absurd to begin with. But that's another topic that we can maybe touch on here.

But what do you believe about the lack of growth for MLB players' salaries? Because depending on what you want to read, and we know TV and how much it's tied to it, but the NBA, you could argue, has doubled. The NFL growth slightly below that. Over that same time frame, I've seen numbers that say that MLB salaries have only grown by 21%. You could look at other charts that have said, go back 20 years ago, baseball players are almost at 60% of revenue. Then it's dipped down. And then some believe they're in the 40s now. What do you believe about an arrow that I think most of us think has always been pointing down?

And there's a lot of information that would tell you that. And of course, the baseball side of it is going to... I remember one time I asked Manfred about it and he brought up that minor league stuff was expensive. And I just was like, all right, whatever, man. I'm like, fine. And then he motherfucked me at some party later that night. And I'll never forget it because I was right. Because I was fucking right when I asked him about it in San Diego at the All-Star game. And then he looked at me like I was a dickhead and then started talking shit about me

to other people at ESPN. And I was like, well, obviously the point I made then is still the point today, that it is going in the wrong direction for the players and everybody knows it. It's just a matter of how much you think this is, like to what degree. Yeah, look, you're getting to the very core

of the discussion here, which is that the players are betting that if you make enough changes to the restrictions on the marketplace, right? The luxury tax is a restriction. That's all it is. It is a disincentive for teams to spend. So if you loosen that up, and if you do things that make losing less advantageous to teams, why did the players want to change revenue sharing between owners? Because it was a feeling that teams didn't have to spend money to make money anymore that they could take enough money from the central

revenues of the sport the national media deals that go into the commissioner's office and get dispersed to all 30 teams that you know it it was starting to make how well your team did not irrelevant but less relevant than it should be that That a team like, say, the Pirates, it's an easy example, could just consistently not spend, not perform well, and still be a viable, profitable team. And so the players are trying to change that. It doesn't look like they're going to get many changes in the revenue sharing program. They've significantly lowered their ask there. But the point is this. They think that if you loosen up the system, that it will create new money, that teams will spend more if there aren't all these penalties attached to going over the CBT. Because it wasn't just that you get taxed on the dollar. It was that there was draft picks involved and other things attached to it. They'd really kind of made it A, complicated and B, kind of onerous to go over the CBT. And so

they think the ability for the revenues to go back up is there. But I do think, look, if they go through this deal, maybe another deal, and they're still not going up, you're going to have to sit down and have a real conversation about, is this system something you can ever make work again

in your favor? But they believe they can all right let's talk about the arbitration stuff because this is for the pre-arbitration eligible players so and clean up anything i don't have locked in here but it's kind of we're talking about our super twos here right um yeah it's it's it's guys most guys in their first three years in the majors a couple guys get to arbitration eligibility and they're after the second year right those are the super twos so but but for most people just think about guys in their zero to three your first three years in the big in the big ones so that pool and i know the numbers have changed on this recently where i think the first things that are being reported is that baseball the owners they were offering a pool of 15 million to be increased to 20 million for

the top 30 pre-arbitration eligible players um based on war and then the players came back and said no we need that pool to be wait they want to completely overhaul it they were saying 115 million dollar pool for 150 players it appears now that's closer. We're talking like maybe still 50 million off here. It's not so much what the number is now because that's not important because we still don't know what it's going to land on. I think this is part of one of the fundamental things for the players.

Football used to have a disaster situation with not having slotting for draft picks and you had Sam Bradford coming in making more money than guys that had been playing forever. Before basketball came in with a slotted system, I remember being in college at Glenn Robinson out of Purdue asking for more money than 75% of the league was even making. So both those leagues knew we have a problem.

Baseball has suppressed this, and I understand draft bonuses. Maybe we'll get to that in a little bit. But they've suppressed this where now you have a de facto fake cap that's called something else but is a cap and now we don't have really like slotting for some of the top players beyond the minimum salary unless you get a bonus in the draft so the owners with this situation realizing they still are controlling these younger players at at really low numbers then they can offer these team-friendly deals, which we also understand. If you're somebody who's like, well, this is only what I'm going to make, so I might as well take this deal. And some of

these players get crushed for taking these deals that take away free agency years. It feels like they have bottom-end control and top-end control here. And this is the part I think the players, it's the most important part for them to try to change this, to make that pool that much bigger. And that's why that number is so far apart because the players have to overhaul this for some way, for some benefit, which also would lead to players not wanting to take these team-friendly seven, eight-year deals that we've seen for some of the best players. Yeah. If you look back on the last decade, clearly we're seeing a lot more young players in the game. And there's a very direct reason for that. It is because they are cheaper. And the other thing is

this. Teams did figure out as analytics and Moneyball came into the game that younger guys actually can perform pretty close to veterans. If you look at wins above replacement and some of the new statistical things, I guess war is not new anymore. But they realized that, yeah, I don't need to pay this veteran, I don't know, the Miguel Cairo type for a one-year deal. I can just bring up a kid from the minors and maybe he'll outperform, and he's going to do it cheaply. So in a way, this is kind of something that's been built in as a flaw in the system for a very long time, but nobody on either side realized it for a long time. And the owners capitalized on it sooner. And it's a very hard thing to change if you're the players. And so the players could have

chosen to fight for something different here. They could have made their platform if they wanted to. We're going to expand arbitration eligibility. Forget this bonus pool. We're going to get more guys at a younger age sooner to arbitration. The thing about that fight is it would have... I mean, you might not have played baseball this year at all. We'll see what happens. But that's the kind of issue that would create a very long work stoppage, I would expect. And so this is kind of a happier medium where the owners are saying, okay, you need some more money. We'll give you

some more money. We're not going to let you expand arbitration because we don't like arbitration because it gives a way for salaries to grow over time. We don't like when salaries grow. And the players need to show some wins, right? And so money is still money at the end of the day. players need to show some wins, right? And so, you know, money is still money at the end of the day. And it was actually kind of the first moment in this whole thing where you thought there was a little bit of progress is when they both agreed in concept on this pre-arbitration bonus bowl. But yeah, there's a gap right now of, let's see, the league is up to $30 million and the union last request proposal was $85 which is a gap about 50 million dollars right which is an improvement i guess from a hundred million dollars a million per team

right it's not that much money you think about it it's not a lot of money no if you start averaging it out being like hey increase the here's what i guess when you go through and look at everything if i were to summarize it in sentence which i've not done well at all to this point, but the owners want the long-term protection that feels relatively flat at the top without improving the bottom. While we all agree, players' compensation seems to get worse every year based on total revenue brought in. Correct. The owners are doing what I think you would expect in this day and age, the billionaire class to do, which is try to keep making as much money as they possibly can. And look, that is also what the players want to do, right? They want to make as much money as they possibly can. They didn't do a good job in the last two collective bargaining agreements. And so now they're up against it. All right. Well, at least there's a shift from when i grew up where you know guys just got pissed at the players all the time and um i know social media is always the greatest indicator but

it's it's always been impressive to me over the years to see how pro player going all right so now look you're on this beat where are we at now what's going to happen um we're gonna we're having a meeting uh today and they're going to discuss what the schedule I think is or just kind of a general outline of what happens from here. Talking to people, people in the industry don't have a lot of optimism this will go quickly. There's a sense that the owners might be willing to wait about 20, 25 games because if you wait 20, 25 games, you're not losing your TV money at your local TV money. But, you know, we don't know the individual contracts as the public and reporters at this point, but we know that generally, you know, an RSN pays a team, regional sports network pays a

team for like 140, 135 games, somewhere in there, 145 maybe. And so that means that probably the owners don't feel a lot of pain financially until you start to get to that point. So you can miss a couple weeks in April. No big deal. And they're really dug in both sides. This is years in the making. And you've got hundreds of millions of dollars on the line. or six games or a week of games, that's going to be enough to change this? Doesn't make sense to me unless there's a real change of heart. I think this moves once both sides, one or both sides, have sufficiently felt pain,

financial pain. And, you know, that is your guess is as good as mine. What is that point? Is it May? Is it June? Well, we're going to find out. Okay, last thought here.

I grew up with baseball. My first job was in baseball. I'm from New England. I love baseball. I don't talk about it, son, because I have a podcast, and I know what works, and I know what doesn't always work.

I had a radio show for a long time and we could see to the segment, and it sucked because I feel bad. Guys like Buster Only, who are one of the first people I ever worked with, he used to come on my radio show in Boston. He came on for free every single week. You know, 2003, he came on and I was like,

hey, can we do something? Send you some gift cards? And Buster's like, I don't care. I love talking baseball. It's like, I know you went to Vermont. I'm from Vermont, all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, later on with SVP and I, and, and even later on with Danny and stuff, it's like, Hey, we're not going to have you on every week because we could see the meter. We could see what was happening with baseball. Um, I know this might be a weird pivot here, but we know Manfred's a terrible public speaker, but he's also just a meat shield for the owners.

You know, that's why he makes money to go out there and look bad and have everybody get pissed at him. But we had a work stoppage in the NBA not that long ago. We had a CBA in the NFL that was ratified by the players. And after they saw what happened,

the 500 guys who didn't vote or some that did were like, oh, I don't even like this. But baseball, whether it was during COVID, which like every other sport, had their challenges and they found a way and they got it done to whatever degree they could, is baseball

treated unfairly in comparison to the other leagues that go through the same exact shit? Maybe. I think there is a perception. It is kind of funny when people say, well, they're always fighting. Well, yeah, but this is actually the first stoppage

you've had in a quarter century in the sport. People talk about how much animosity there's been, but they've been publicly going after each other, the players and the owners, for a long time. I kind of look at it from a different perspective, which is that this is what this system, the system of a union and a management group is designed to do. You are supposed to have points where basically you fight. It's not supposed to be perpetual harmony. I think most people look at it as like,

what are you taught when you're a kid? Everybody should get along. It's great when people get along, but that's not how this business relationship works. It is not supposed to be that the players are sitting there going, let me do what's best for the owners. The owners are going to be going, you know, yeah, let me do what's best for the players. It's not how this works. And so you're going to have clashes. It's kind of remarkable and almost surprising you didn't have a clash sooner in baseball than you did now and i i think if you're you're taking it from the fan perspective what do you hope you hope that you come out of this and they're in a better place and they should be in a better place once this is all

said and done the question i asked manfred at his makeshift press conference at roger dean stadium in jupiter florida was about the other entertainment options in the country available to people generally. The fact that you go on your cell phone right now, you can watch whatever you want. You can turn away from baseball like that in an instant. And he acknowledged kind of evasively that, yeah, it's a different landscape than it was in 94, 95. But I think that's a real problem, that if people are already not wanting to do a lot of baseball on their highly listened to radio shows, you give people a few months

away or a month away from the sport, it's not going to help you. And I think they know that. That was terrific, man. You can follow Evan at Evan Drellick and check out all of his work, Senior Writer of Baseball at The Athletic. Well, good luck, man. Enjoy it. I'm going to go stand on a street corner now. Thanks, Ryan.

Winning time. I've seen the pilot. It's out this weekend. HBO. We're going to talk to one of the creators and the writer, Jim Heck, joins us now. How did this come together, Jim? I mean, I know the book. Yeah.

Jeff Perlman, Showtime. You know, we've all been aware of it. You read a book. You come across a project. Give us the pre part of this to getting this together and actually realizing you're going to be doing the show. Well, like all great things in my life, somehow I came out of one of the darkest periods. Like I was going through a horrible breakup. I was in the worst place I'd been professionally. And I just kind of got hit with this thought like, dude, you got to stop trying to make stuff that you think other people would want to see and make the show that

you would want to see. And it was literally the next day, I was listening to 710 out here, ESPN LA, and Max Kellerman was on and he was talking Jeff Perlman's book was coming out. And I had grown up, you know, as a kid in Fountain Valley, Huntington Beach. My dad took me to the Westminster Mall when I was six years old to stand on line for two and a half hours to meet Magic Johnson. And that was huge when I was a kid. And I rose and died with that team. You know, I cried when when they lost and I celebrated way too hard when they won. And so I was at Book Soup 9am the next day. When the doors opened, the book came out. I read it by 11. And I called my agent and was like, I want to do like Friday Night Lights

for the Lakers in the 80s. And he said, Jim, this is the thing that's going to be written on your door on your gravestone. And so I flew out to New Rochelle, Easter Sunday, 2014. I showed up on Jeff's doorstep with a bottle of non-alcoholic wine, a hunk of chocolate and a tomato and had dinner with him and his family. And Jeff's expectations were so low because he'd had a few books option and nothing had ever happened with them and he was willing to be like yeah dude whatever you want to do go try it you know and he said when i left him and his wife turned to each other they're like nothing's ever going to happen with that and i think that's pretty much how he felt probably right up until the camera started rolling

maybe even till last night yeah i mean i think that's the part of it that people just don't really understand is that that's what almost eight years ago. And you were you were that passionate. And whenever you're going after a book to option it, like, yeah, just write us the check, man. of money. And Jeff was just like, he's so nice. I don't know if you met Jeff Perlman, but probably the nicest human on the planet. Someone that makes me feel that I'm an okay person because he considers me his friend. And he was just like, yeah, sure, go ahead. And for years, just was like, okay, cool. Whatever you want. Go ahead. Keep trying.

And we got a ton of no's. We got no's all the time. It was years. And then nobody really thought that this was a great idea until kevin messick and adam mckay thought this was a great idea and then everybody thought it was a great idea what a natural idea how did nobody think of that before you know that's how that's how things go you need it you need one guy to say yes all right so take us to that part of it where you know whether it's it's max bornstein who you you know you you've written

the story together with but yeah it basically comes down to somebody like mckay going okay yeah i actually want to do this right i mean this is how it works yeah well and then the next step was max because hbo introduced us actually actually a good mutual friend alex litback introduced us to max bornstein and we were looking for showrunners. Cause I, my only track record was like in talking animal movies. Like I'd worked on ice age movies. So like I'd never even worked with human beings before. They wanted somebody who had worked in drama to, to shepherd the project through. And I sat down with Max.

Max grew up here in the Valley and had the same sort of childhood love for the Lakers, that Lakers team in particular that I did. And, and it was like in that conversation i don't even know what he was saying it was like my mind went you know the words were still coming out i thought this is the guy like this is it and so we stopped our search with the with the field of one it was like that's the dude and and max is like not only taking me to college as far as drama writing but also just you is probably the most brilliant person I've ever met and just killed it on this project. And then he brought in his buddy, Rodney Barnes, and

the three of us, him and Rodney and me, and that's our writing room. Two younger guys and it's a small little crew. And I work with the two most brilliant people I've ever met. And I'm super lucky. You brought up the Ice Age stuff, which clearly I've seen on the resume. Yeah. And the reason I was laughing about it as I was getting ready for the interview is I just finished the Mad Max Fury Road book.

It was the oral history of shooting that movie. And it is as intense as the movie. It's probably more the book and everything that went on around that movie and it is as intense as the movie it's probably more the book and everything that went on around that movie but that people easily forget george miller who created mad max australian guy he was working on the babe the pig movies and then he did wow he did happy feet too while he was prepping the fury road shoot oh yeah so this is somebody that that's created some of the most violent like and it's not just blood and guts it's this intensity of story and character and then it's like oh by the way i'm going to finish this animated penguin deal right and i when i was reading about your thing i was like you know hollywood can be really

tough and that is like well wait a minute the the ice age guy is going to do a drama for hbo and it's always kind of bullshit i mean because people don't want to take the chance on somebody until they they've already proven or like oh stay in your lane but i mean is it really that different i mean you're still just doing a story right so how do you apply some of the stuff you've done there as you're trying to figure out something that you're this passionate about that's different? You know, yes and no. Because I think on some level, like I thought,

because it had some success, particularly young, they're like, I knew it. You know, like I knew how to do it, and it wouldn't be that difficult of a transition. Hollywood as an industry or town seemed to see it differently, and they were like, you know, just stick to the talking animals, kid. That's what we want from you. And that was easy for me.

That's why I got to a dark period of my career, because I was willing to take that if whoever would pay the most and whatever the highest profile project was, I would take. But you can't make a career that way. Like, you can't get by just doing stuff that you like. It has to be stuff that you love. That's the only thing that's going to get you through, really, to make something good. It's really... Rodney likes to say all the time, it's really hard to be stuff that you love that's the only thing that's going to get you through really to make something good it's really rodney likes to say all the time it's really hard to make anything that's good now the other flip side of that coin is like i didn't know what i didn't

know and drama is a completely different you know ball of wax from from from ice age like i love don't get me wrong i love love love ice age working on those movies with those people but this is like going from being a sprinter to a power lifter or vice versa. And there was just, it was a huge learning curve, you know, and how that stuff is written. And I emerged from that, you know, we've been in the writer's room now for three years, pretty much every day. And I'm a different writer, you know, it's, I'm not the same person that went into it.

And that's because Rodney and Max were super hard on me. And they broke me down and remade me into something different. And I love those guys for that. It was not comfortable, as learning and growing rarely is, especially as we get older. But I'm so grateful for those guys. Those guys are my brothers now. I can't say enough.

Let's talk about the pilot. I got to watch it last night. Quincy Isaiah, actor, plays Magic Johnson. He's 6'3", and he played football in college. Is that true? Yeah. What did you think, by the way? Does he pull it off?

I thought he was awesome. I actually read your pilot two years ago, and I think it's different from the one I read. yeah what did you think by the way did you does he pull it off i thought he was awesome because when i read i actually read your pilot two years ago and i think it's different from the one i read i came across it and i got done i go i feel so bad for these guys having to figure out how to cast magic johnson i was just like that was a lot of the nose yeah that's a lot of people didn't that that was the nose that we got before mckay people were like you're never going to be able to cast magic johnson and kareem abdul-jab, you're never going to be able to cast Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Where are you going to find two guys that are that tall

that can play basketball, that can also act on a level of an HBO drama? And Francine Mazur, our casting director, did it. And the magic one came pretty quick, and she did an open call. Quincy, I remember going to his IMDb page when I saw his tape

because you've never seen that guy, but it's like, wait a minute, this guy has it. And then when he smiled and Adam said the same thing, it was like, when he smiled, like it's Magic Johnson. And I told Adam, I was like, the thing that's going to be written on your gravestone, after all this stuff, the Oscars is going to be, I discovered Quincy Isaiah. And so I went to his IMDb page. It was blank. He had nothing on it. I went to his Instagram and had 264 followers. And then I Googled him and what comes up is his Kalamazoo college, you know,

highlight reel, which is 30 minutes of him making pancake box because he was a center. He played center on the college, you know, on the Kalamazoo college football team, he was over 300 pounds. And so he discovered acting, you you know late in college and was like i'm going to hollywood don't do this at home if you're thinking about it it never happens and quincy took up the one that's going to happen for the next 10 years like nobody comes here and makes it like that but watching him is like it's like watching a dicaprio or an amadeus or something

like that he's just a natural genius you know what i mean it's a level of artistry i don't have for me i had to work at getting where i'm at like quincy just has it and and and is like a you know a michael george talented guy level of talent as an actor and and you can't help also can't help but love him the best kid on the world in the planet him and solomon are such great people i spent a lot of time talking to quincy's mom last night because whatever she did, man, she did it right because he's just such a good person. And then Solomon too. Solomon is another level of complication for Kareem because Kareem is brilliant. He's a television writer. He's a novelist. He's a public speaker. He's an advocate, an activist. He speaks at the Democratic National Convention. So you can't half-ass it with that guy. And he's an advocate an activist he speaks at the democratic national convention so you can't like half-ass it with that guy and he's seven foot tall right and so what did we

find francie went out and found a guy who hadn't acted but played basketball at cal had a phd and whose dad had a phd and and and is a brilliant guy and so when you see solomon on screen he embodies that internal process that you see with kareem. He's always thinking it's deep. You know what I mean? And that's the kind of guy that Solomon is. But Solomon is probably a lot easier to talk to and get to know. He's an open book as a person and very warm. And again, those two guys, I could not be happier for them as people

because they're just the best people. I can't believe it. And then just seeing Magic and some of the basketball scenes closing, I don't want to give away too much at the end. You're like, oh, okay, this guy played. He played. And that's why I think so many sports movies completely fall apart. It's like, you want me to buy in, you want me to believe this.

And then the second the guy touches a ball, you're just like, all right, it's hard. It's a hard thing, especially when we're talking about guys that are this good. I want to pivot then to John C. Reilly, who I think is probably one of the most underrated actors of his generation. He can do comedy without being funny. He can do drama. And he kind of drives, he really does drive your story. I mean, it's focused around him as it is as much magic.

What was it like? You know, that's a basic question. Let me think. How do you write to John C. Reilly once you know you have him? Well, you don't because, I mean, that's why John's a basic question let me think how do you write to john c reilly once you know you have him well you don't because i mean that's why john's a better actor than than you know 99 or maybe even 100 of everybody that's out there like he has an uncanny ability to do what the great ones do what the daniel day lewis's do which is like you know you see a lot of movie stars and they play themselves every role so you have to write for that i've know, you see a lot of movie stars and they play themselves every role. So you have to write for that. I've done it before in a lot of movies, like you write for their

voice. You know, I'm not saying Romano is not a good actor, but like when I was working on Ice Age, I watched Everybody Love Raven constantly on a loop to get that voice in my head. And with John, it's different because we're not writing for John, we're writing for Dr. Buss. Because I honestly, I didn't see it at first. Like when I heard John C. Reilly, I thought Step Brothers, you know, I'd forgotten about the John C. Reilly of Magnolia and, and Boogie Nights and stuff like that. Gangs of New York. Yeah. I mean, you're talking about somebody with serious,

serious acting chops, you know, uh, uh, who came up with like Paul Thomas Anderson. And so I didn't, wasn't recalling that. And then when he showed up, he doesn't, when you look at John C. Reilly, you don't see Dr. Buss, right? I mean, that's just not what he looks like the first time when he showed up and then went in hair and makeup and came out with the mustache and the chest hair and the shirt open, it was like, Oh my God, it's him. It's like really him. Like he walks out and he just embodies that to where to me anymore.

I don't see, you know, Dr. Buss. I see John or vice versa. It's just indistinguishable for me. So it's a unique experience in that way because John has that uncanny ability to actually go become another person. Like that is an extra layer of acting that most movie stars don't have. How's the Buss family feel about the project? I don't really know. I hope that she gets it. You know what I mean? Like Jeannie Buss, you're talking about someone who is a hero to me,

who I'd never met, but feel incredibly close to. I mean, funny story when Rick Fox was a friend of mine from the nineties. So Rick threw me in his pool after they beat Indiana for the first championship. So I've been like, you're going to do this thing. You're going to do this thing. He never believed me. When it finally came about, I introduced, because Rick's a consultant on the show. So I introduced Rick and Max. We go to a restaurant in Brentwood

and the very next table over is Jeannie Buss and Linda Rambis. And it was the day that they got rid of Jim Buss. So they had a lot on their minds, but didn't come over and say hi. And I don't know. I hope that... I think Jeannie is incredibly savvy.

I mean, you saw that with the kids. She's the one that gets it the way that her dad got it. What the brand means and what the future means and what's cool and what's not. And I think knowing that about her, I think she's going to love it. Ultimately, if she gives it a chance, she's going to see how good it is for her brand and how good it is for her. And I think she's going to... My hope is she's going to dig it because we love her. And, and, and I hope at some point that, that, that she says that, um, but I can't control it really. I just got to tell

the truth with the story. I can't, you know, we can't make it to try to make Jeannie happy. I don't know that Jerry West is going to love the way he's portrayed. Would he love any portrayal of him though? He's like such a tortured soul like that. I don't know that Jerry West is going to love the way he's portrayed. Would he love any portrayal of him though? He's like such a tortured soul like that. I don't want to say that I play favorite with my characters, but that's the one I identify with the most. I've had my own struggles with depression and addiction and stuff like that. And it's crazy.

It's crazy to think when I read his book, for example, you hear him talk on interviews and it's like the icon of the NBA, literally the logo of the league, you know, a legend beyond almost any legend. And on the inside, after all that, straight stand after him, statues, awards, whatever, he feels just like me inside in my worst moments. And it's impossible not to relate to that and love that. I'm sure if you want, I picture him that he's going to have to watch every minute, hate

every minute, but he's going to have to watch it because he's going to torture himself, you know? And, and, and, and I hope that he knows that we love him. And I think that people are going to watch it and love Jerry West even more than they already love and revere Jerry West because he's so complicated and tortured and eccentric and, and and crazy genius talented and and all the things that come with him jason clark you saw the pilot like jason clark amazing like oh yeah i mean i've loved that guy since brotherhood brotherhood is one of my favorite

like a show nobody gave any attention to no one loved and i loved it took place in providence and everything and so uh yeah yeah no big fan jason clark should win an oscar for a tv show in this he's that good i'm not just bragging because of my show but he blew blew us away he's he's incredible you know what i loved about the jerry west part of it though and this is you know there's a couple things here that i want to get to but all right it's a tv show so we get we gotta have fun we gotta you know for the creative process i don't want to get to, but all right, it's a TV show. So we get, we got to have fun. We got to, you know, for the creative process, I don't want to have to feel like, you know, if you're, if you're you going like, I know who Jerry West is, everybody should know who Jerry West is. And I'm going to have him be this cantankerous guy.

Who's not exactly on board with drafting magic Johnson and all the history that goes back to that pick 40 years ago. But then you give us that snippet of why he's this tortured soul so like for me i already knew and i'd read about him i've interviewed him you know like he's pretty open as he's gotten older just being like i was the most miserable human being in the world because of losing all those finals but i thought you you set him up and then introduced him late to confirm like this is why this guy is this way so even if there wasn't sympathy there was there was reasoning behind it which i thought was done really well for an audience that maybe is

learning all about this for the first time and then somebody like me that already knew this stuff and i thought that was handled in a really cool way and then obviously he delivers on the performance thanks man it was and you know we go into it more more in upcoming episodes because Jerry is not just tortured by the Boston finals. Like it goes back to being a kid in West in West Virginia and having a really, really difficult childhood with a father that was kind of monstrous to him. And and and having his brother, who was maybe the favorite child, or at least he saw it, the golden boy killed in Korea. his brother who was maybe the favorite child or at least as he saw it the golden boy killed in korea and i think that when you know his brother goes over his brother was supposed to play west virginia and he went overseas out of you know jerry's sight and control and came home in a coffin and i think when something like that happens as a kid you're like i need control over everything

because if i let go of something for five minutes, it could be lost. And that's why he has to have the ball at the end of every game. He needs that control. That's why he wasn't a great coach because he couldn't make players play the way that he is. But he's a great GM because he can make it into a puzzle and put all the pieces together and control exactly what's there. That's also why he can't watch the games because he can't control what goes on on the floor. You know, he does like Billy Beeney drives around the parking lot or, you know, drives up to 405 and can't look. When you are trying to figure out kind of like the, all right, what's the pilot, like

the pilot's written differently than now, now that you're in it, your episodes, here's the buy-in and everything. When you're trying to figure out that through line. Um, and it's something that a lot of people do already know. How do you balance like, Hey, this is something I cared this much about. I want to be technically as accurate as I can be, but I also am writing television here. I'm writing an hour long drama. So I need to tweak some things. How do you deal with the balancing act of that? Yeah. I mean, you kind of got to do it by sight or you know you know when you see it but like we try to be true to the characters to the people

the individuals as we know them and try to be true to the story so like i can't know necessarily what happened in the conversation in 1979 between magic and crane but we can you know fill in the blanks as we know those two characters to to get into their heads and stuff like that so you know we try not to craft things that are purely fiction and that they don't fit the people or the general arc of of what happened in in the story but at the same time like yeah you're trying to dramatize stuff and and and give your perspective you know you try to be objective but at the same time we we're telling a story and, and, and things fit if they fit that story and they don't fit if they don't fit that story or those characters. And so, you know, you just got to try to be cognizant and, and, and, and, and,

and as we went into it more and more, you get deeper in the characters, you start to get a better feeling for what fits and what doesn't. We were fortunate in a way that we had, you know, we're supposed to shoot a year earlier, the pilot was shot in 2019 and then the pandemic hit. And so we were forced slash given an extra year of writing where we went back and tore up everything we had done in the first year or a year and a half or two years and kind of started over. And we, you know, we, we, we sat out and did a shorter period of time because the more you get into it you want to spend more time with these characters

so we were blessed by hbo and blessed by the universe for giving us you know a long time to try to to figure out season one and now i think we have a better idea going forward premiere was last night um for you and obviously this is coming out this sunday on hbo nine eastern um what was it like thank you for telling me by the way i didn't know my wife just asked what time it was and i didn't know well i'm glad because usually people get really pissed when we haven't mentioned it three times already uh thank you what was that moment like for you mentioned it three times already uh thank you what was that moment like for you last night to see the art to see to see the whole thing go holy shit we actually did something and knowing everything you've told us that you've gone through what was that moment like for you

it's surreal i mean there's been a lot of moments like that like when jeff came to visit the set for the first time i hadn't really been out on the forum set yet and walking out onto the forum floor my dad was the guy who would buy us the seats like a row from the ceiling like you could touch the ceiling so to be able to like walk out on the forum floor and see the laker girls and see magic and kareem and dr buzzard was like not only am i stepping into my childhood but my greatest childhood fantasy to be able to do that with jeff who's been with me and trusting you from day one was amazing i think the book end of that is last night i'm sitting next to jeff the premiere. There's hundreds of people there.

It's a big theater. I don't know, 500,000 people. And Adam McKay is introducing the movie. And he says, he points out Jeff, makes Jeff stand up. And then when Jeff wanted to sit down, kept saying, no, no, no, no, no. I want you to stand up until you're super uncomfortable. If you know Jeff, he was super uncomfortable the second that McKay said his name. And so that was like the best moment. Honestly, I think that was the best moment for me. It was sitting there with Jeff and his kids who were like 10 when I met him and now are in college and getting to see him get that from his kids and

give that back and get the recognition that he deserves. Like I couldn't, it's one of those things I couldn't have scripted that that felt better than I could have possibly imagined. Well, congrats, man. I'm happy for you.

And, uh, as somebody who that, thank you. No, whenever the sports show comes out, you're kind of like, how are they going to do this?

Yeah. And we talked about the basketball thing and that was super important to me because nobody gets it right. Nobody gets it right. And so we really sat out and tried to make it right. You did. You did. Because as soon as I saw him handling and just driving down the court towards the end of the pilot, I was like, oh, my God.

I'm like, this guy's again, you shoot him to where he feels like he's six, nine, the entire show. You can just kind of tell which, you know, it's like that's the whole point. But I was I was really impressed by Quincy. I was actually pretty shocked because I didn't think you'd be able to pull off the Magic Johnson part of it. I was like, how are you going to find Magic Johnson? And you did.

The last thing we did with the audition because we were like, we got to see if he can play basketball is we took him out with Rick Fox. And Rick was like, my goal is to make the kid throw up. And he did not throw up, but it was brutal.

It was like run 50 suicides, then shoot free throws on one foot with your left hand. It was just crazy. And Quincy just kept coming and just kept coming and like that football attitude and he could do it. That also sounds like a stupid workout for a guy trying to learn how to play basketball. We just had to see if he, you know, could fit.

No, we didn't. Honestly, we didn't see if he had that kind of endurance, but we did need to see if he you know could no we didn't honestly we didn't see if he had that kind of endurance but we did need to see if he you know could play like it like look like maddie johnson and he i have the film i watched it a few times over again and it's it's great it's just a great moment well congrats thanks for the time today jim thanks ryan i appreciate you having me you want details bye i drive a ferrari 355 cabriolet what's up i have a ridiculous house in the south fork i have every toy you can possibly imagine and best of all kids i am liquid so now you know what's possible let me tell you what's required before we take off with

life advice here, I just want to share something with you guys that doesn't happen really ever in this business. But we taped with Dirk. And despite a healthy ego, I also don't expect that Dirk is going to remember me from a phone or twice like 10 years ago and maybe 88 years ago.

I kind of go in with that being like, maybe he'll remember me. He loves Van Pelt, okay. He loves Van Pelt. Okay. He loves Van Pelt. Van Pelt fucking loves him. I don't even know if they've ever hung out. Maybe they did some shoot or something like that. There was always this rumor about potentially doing a sports center ad. And then I, as a young brash person, I remember it was kind of like, but Mark Stein was going to work his way into the This Is Sports Center ad. I was like, how's Mark Stein going to be in a This Is Sports Center ad?

Like, I think Stein was offering up Dirk, but with the condition that Stein would also be in the This Is Sports Center ad. And like the This Is Sports Center ads, you don't get to just be in those. Like, that was a big deal, especially when they were still really good. was a big deal, especially when they were still really good. And anyway, the point is that after we got done with Dirk, he stayed on for another eight minutes with us. And he was also doing multiple interviews that day. Guys don't do that. And he was talking about Van Pelt. He started talking about some other things. And I thought the interview was good, but boy, I would have loved to get that version of Dirk for the full 30, 40 minutes of the interview. I just wanted to share that with people

to understand that it's not me being like, look how cool I am. I said, he stuck around for eight more minutes. It's that he's that cool. Guys like him don't ever do stuff like that. And that was kind of, I was pretty blown away that he hung out. But we were kind of like, all right, dude,

we know you got to go. He's like, oh yeah, okay, later. So I don't know. I don't know how you felt about that Saruti or Kyle, but it's just, that he hung out. But we were kind of like, all right, dude, we know you got to go. He's like, oh, yeah, okay, later. So I don't know. I don't know how you felt about that, Saruti or Kyle, but it's just that doesn't happen. We both know we've been doing this a very long time. And I was like, that's pretty cool. My only interactions with Dirk have ever been obviously through,

you know, interviews and setting things up like that. But if you ask anybody like around the business or whatever, like who are like the top, whatever list you want to make of athletes that are just good dudes that everybody seems to just like he's he's at the top of that list and i think yes i think that that interview sort of showcased why and you're right after the after he was kind of just shooting the shit about steven ash and different stuff that was really cool and i think everybody got a kick out of him looking like a telemarker because he was wearing like the headset thing behind a blank wall um which even made it which made it even

visually more funny but uh that's just the, I don't know. Everybody who's been across him or worked with him or probably played with him seems to just love that guy. And it's easy to see why. You know, it's funny because Steve Nash is actually sort of the same way. I've really been in a room with Dirk, but I've been in a room with Steve Nash with Bill. And he's like kind of the same way.

So it makes sense that they're great friends. And it was also one of those things you almost wish you did it earlier. But when you run, like if you almost wish you before the interview, you got that, you know, that sort of back and forth. But then you run the risk of losing eight minutes and and his like, you know, PR guy be like, all right, sorry, we got to go. But yeah, definitely would have probably even loosen the interview up even more, which I already thought he was like, you know, super comfortable. But, you know, you almost wonder what that that 28 minutes would have been like uh if we had opened with that before we pushed record yeah all right so look we shared it and um let's get on to life advice life advice rr at gmail.com um like anything now this is sort of pivoting into a lot of follow

ups so i'm not saying don't send them in i just don't know how much it's almost like becoming a little community here. We live in a sequel culture, Ryan. Like that's what people want now. Well, every movie that made is a sequel. We're bringing stuff. There's like nine new Ghostbusters movies every other couple of years. So sequels are in.

It's hot. So the kid who screwed up his baseball interview for the student newspaper, he followed up and said, hey, the whole reason I didn't have my questions prepared is I was actually prepared for the other piece because I was assigned two different pieces he's like so then the pr person that put me in touch with the team fired up the other thing that i didn't think had been assigned yet and he's like so there were some signals crossed on top of it because but at that point i already missed the interview so i couldn't then be like so the way his follow-up i got a lot more faith in that kid his follow-up was like all over it so i don't think he's a disaster um so there you go bud and it led to the dirks bentley question oh no no

did it same day i don't know if it was the same time definitely the same day no because that was the guy that was asking about uh being that's right comic right stand-up comedy right thank you sir rudy helping out those rocking chair moments here. Because I have a comedian follow-up, a comedian who checked in, who I thought, no doubt, all the comedians that we've had follow-up, I knew what would happen is they'd be like, hey, I want to come on the podcast. It's like, why? Okay.

This guy did not ask to come on the podcast and I thought his email was funny. And so we're going to read it. What's up squad? 27, six, one, two Oh two at my peak. What do you mean?

Height or weight? I don't probably wait. That'd be great. If guys started, that's what I'm going to start doing it. My height peak was this prior to. All right. So yeah, cause I've written it a couple times and actually have

some perhaps unique input this time i know you can't tell by my name or picture uh i know you can't tell by my name or pictureless email but i'm black so if you don't read my email it's pretty racist and black history month just ended and that's fucked up uh anyway i see he started with a joke i hope i don't know you never. I don't want to get in trouble. I don't think I can for that. It's his email, right? Anyway, I used to run a stand-up open mic in LA for a couple years. I've seen everyone from people who need their own Netflix special to people who should never do stand-up again.

I'm fascinated. I want to do a Netflix special on people that should never do stand-up again. That's what I think would be a good Netflix special. If my guy is serious about comedy, here's what you should expect you're gonna bomb everybody does look at Kyle Kyle knows this Kyle you ever thought about doing stand up yeah I do like some people sing in the shower

I kind of work stuff out and it's like I can never do this but it'll never stop me from trying just observational stuff wait time out time out time out sorry to our comedian email what kind of stuff are you working out in the shower Observational stuff. Wait, time out, time out, time out. Sorry to our comedian email. What kind of stuff were you working out in the shower? See, that's stuff I can't even tell you.

But it's definitely observational stuff. I try to think about some situations I've been in. I'm in the armpit of Hollywood. I see stuff. I wonder if it's too edgy to joke about. But I mean, it'll never happen. Is it stuff that you use? Is it stuff you use at Frolic Room?

Or is it just all in your head? It could be Frolic Room. It could be stuff on the way to frolic room could be stuff from just stories i bet i've got stories you know i haven't been tapped out of all my stories so you know i think about like you know i think the story joke is probably a little harder to nail than the uh than the observational humor joke but i don't know uh but the one thing that i would say is i think i got started thinking about it because two years ago, the loser bottom tier team of our fantasy football team had to do like five minutes of a tight five somewhere in New York City.

That was the punishment for the loser. The loser had to do five minutes of stand-up with an open mic? Yeah. How bad was it? I mean, I didn't fly back for that i should have but uh that was like two years ago yeah flying back for that i think it was i think it was actually a guy who probably would have been the best one to do it just because he didn't care like most of us would be two in our heads but you know okay can you give us any hint of like a joke that you've tried to work on?

No. I really put you on the spot and I don't want you to feel bad about it. It's fine. I'll never feel bad. I think like a Kyle memoir though would work. You know, if Kyle just wrote down his stories and worked with you, working with Bill,

living in LA, Frollock Room. There's something there that's marketable that you can sell to a book company for sure. No? I don't know. Maybe like a 50-pager. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Like a a book company for sure yeah no no maybe like a 50 pager yeah that's what i was thinking like a pamphlet quick yeah it has this has blog written all over it i don't know that it's 250 pages yet no you would need to be more fucked up but i don't think you are no you know if you're gonna be in your 20s writing memoirs you're gonna be doing some

weird shit yeah you've got to at least done sometime or something yeah yeah right all right okay moving on um if my guy's serious about comedy you're gonna bomb all right whatever uh there we go all right sometimes you're gonna perform in front of no one everyone starts somewhere my best friend uh my best friend and i ran the mic together on the first night we opened i did 15 minutes in front of him and the bartender then he did 15 minutes in front of me and the bartender a security guard that patrolled the parking lot walked in for four minutes decided we weren't worth his time and went back outside of the empty parking lot i think he just wanted to sit down most open mics are going to be comedians that don't give a shit about your set and aren't going to be paying attention they're just waiting

for their turn to go up there and bomb after you. If you can make a room full of impatient comedians laugh, you're on to some golden material. Network, network, network. Show up early, stay late. This is where you can meet people and find out about shows

and connect with people who have been doing it longer than you. Greet the host and say goodbye. They will remember. A little politeness always went a long way. You don't have to treat me like Tony Soprano, but come on. It's all going to be so fun.

How about that? Positive. A nice positive spin at the end. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Here's a good life advice. We'll do two quicker ones.

59175. We're working a small private K-8 school in the Midwest. Maybe once every other week people will bring treats to the school and they will be in the teacher's lounge. It could be a parent saying thank you. Or the case today, one of the staff members is expecting the baby, so they bring in treats to announce the upcoming birth with the email saying we're expecting. Treats are in the lounge to celebrate. Sounds like the old freeze pops deal here. This dilemma is specific to donuts.

There's a culture of my school of taking out a plastic knife and cutting the donuts in half. However, I'm not really interested in this. For me, a donut is an entity in itself. Big time. I don't really want half a donut. I'm not sure if people are cutting the donuts because they don't want the whole one or if it's common to only take half so everyone will get one i have assumed the former to make me feel better about taking a whole donut but now i'm getting self-conscious about people seeing me eat a whole donut uh the whole cream filled long john in the teacher's line

is that what they're called or is this's, is that his preferred nomenclature? Oh, so you like the Joe? I thought you had, you were like, man, those are good. I didn't know why you were laughing.

No, no, but I don't know. I got something to add at the end of this, but no, is that what they're called? Have you ever called them that? Or is that just this guy being hilarious?

I just looked it up. I guess it is. Yeah. Long John donut. R-shaped. Sorry. Didn't want to give them too much credit there. Sorry. Yeah, there's a

recipe right here for cream-filled Long Johns. Alright, I'm going to mute. Be honest. Did you think it was a dick joke? Totally. Totally. Or the guy was just funny. I mean, it might be. We don't even know. There's a brand of dick joke that's funny

and there's ones that are just stupid. I think that's like, you know, in the middle of both. So you were laughing that hard thinking that I just dove head first into a weird dick joke donut email. Unknowingly, yeah.

Yeah. That actually makes me happy you were that happy about it. I'm sorry. I'm ruining all the emails. No, you're not. You're making them all better. Again, so don't even

don't worry about it. You know why I didn't think it was a dick joke? It's because he was from the Midwest. And I think that one of the fascinating things about this country is learning different, as you said, nomenclature for food stuff. You know? Got it. Yes. You ever gone out drinking with somebody from the Midwest and you're like, what do you call it?

I'm serious. yeah i i when i first heard um when i heard draught have you ever heard that one kyle are you trying to say drought no instead of draft instead of draft beer draught oh my god oh come on i've seen it spelled that way but you know we know how to say it shout out to iowa wow i'm just saying i was like what are you do i was like do you not know how to say it right and i was like i guess that is i was like why are you saying it that way? I was like, are you? And you're wondering, like, am I with this really stupid person? I'm like, no, that's how people say stuff. You say it, you get older, more accepted.

All right, so back to the donuts in this guy. To add to this, the teacher across the hall mentioned that he did not get a donut today. I did feel bad because I had a whole one. Any advice? Is it on the people bringing in the treats to make sure there's enough for everybody? Or do I need to cut them in half and be considerate of others?

All right. You know, look, I'm not a big donut guy. I wouldn't want a whole one. I did buy some sidecars the other day. I just was like, I got to see what this is all about. And I grabbed some and they are good because they're so fresh and that's the whole deal. But I knew I was like, I got to see what this is all about. And I grabbed some and they are good because they're so fresh and that's the whole deal. But I knew, I was like, what are you going to do?

Why did you buy these and sample them all? Now you have donuts in your house. You live by yourself. You're not going to wake up and eat a donut every day. And even if you did, day six, you're not going to want to eat that donut. That's kind of the whole point of how good the sidecar donuts are. So, people would bring in treats to espn

and i mean cowherd to this day is one of the most fascinating people i've ever encountered but he would just hack at like three different ones and then you'd go in and be like did somebody take bites out of these and put them back. And he just ripped them with his fingers. Yeah. He would just rip them apart. So it'd be like how hard was touching all the donuts. And you kind of were like, I, I couldn't tell now. So the reason I'm bringing that up to apply it to this is I think I'd rather

have the half donut option. I know that most people will probably disagree with me. That is fine. But at least that way, if somebody doesn't want a but at least that way if somebody doesn't want to hold on it that way everybody's not touching everybody else's stuff because when we'd see some of the treats that were out there and then it would look like a weed whacker went through them everybody knew they'd be like oh cowherd got to these already be like yeah like

somebody's gonna start bringing these after 10 a.m eastern when he's in the studio and then like if you're gonna set out treats you have to wait until his show starts because he's no just gonna hop out in the commercial break and do it too he wouldn't care no true we're talking go over to talk to stanford steve rip a donut in half and then go back into the studio yeah yeah anyway so i look kyle why don't you take this one because i i don't i get where this guy's coming from he wants a whole donut most people would want a whole donut there but if somebody else is cutting them up that's pretty clear indication that they don't want to have to pay for everybody to have a whole donut or they don't want to waste or you know a lot of people when they're going to eat something they know they shouldn't be eating and again who gives a shit

you know dabbling a donut every now and then eat a cheeseburger every now get yourself a fucking pizza and sit down and eat it one sitting uh i'm i that guy. I'm not some fucking crazy health nut, but there's also some part of this too. It's like maybe the person bringing in the treats doesn't want to buy 40 fucking donuts either. And so if they buy a couple dozen, then everybody does get a piece of one. If there's something lingering around a little bit later,

you know, Steve from math is going to come over and grab himself, you know, three. Steve from math, that's good. Uh, I, I would say I would done what he did. I would have been like, all right, I'm the full donut guy. Once somebody says they didn't get one, I would feel shame, probably get a little sick to my stomach and would have to cut the donuts in half, uh, every single time. So I think, I hope that's what he's going to do. Um, I, I know where he's coming from. I love a donut in a setting. I wasn't expecting to get one. So I was born, uh, I was born and

raised not religious. My mom, my dad, or my dad gets remarried in 1999. All of a sudden I'm going to church with this blended family. And I'm like, I can't believe this it's so long, but there was donuts at the end. And it was kind of the same deal where there was like plastic knives out. And I was like, there's no bagels here. What's the knives for? And it was to cut the donuts in half. And I never would, but I was 10. And so I know, I think that's probably how he's feeling. It's like, yeah, donuts. I'm going to have a donut. And I'm so happy. This is the best part of my day. And then I never even thought to cut them in half, but that's what everyone was doing. But I saw them passing the basket around. It's like, well, this must be the donut fund.

So I figured they had money for donuts. But now I'm thinking, I think that's probably what he was thinking. And then once he had that adult realization moment, like, yeah, now you just have half a donut. But I get why you want a full one. And I think I want a full one for you, but I think you have to have a half. I don't think like the person who buys the donuts is obligated to get, you know, if there's 50 people, you don't have to get 50 donuts. I think some of this is that when people cut a donut in half, they're just kind of embarrassed to be taking and eating a whole donut. You know, like there's some people that I think that's okay about it.

And I get that. I am a dainty eater around people I don't know. And typically, if you're at work, you're probably you know, you don't want someone thinking, oh, there's Steve shoving his face donuts like he's just like a slob. So you cut the donut in half and you kind of look like, oh, just have a couple bites. Like, I don't usually do this. Like, if you took my toe in the sweets water. But if I was by myself, you better believe I'm like, I'm going to eat the whole donut.

So I think it's more of like a socialness, like a little awkward kind of thing of someone not wanting to eat a full donut. But it is I think there are some people who probably do cut in half because you know they're like hey let's save some other people i don't think i remember christine lisi she used to make treats to the espn all the time and they were delicious and it was just kind of like first come first serve like if she made a dozen then and and she dropped at different times during the day but i don't think anyone was like hey let's save some for the rest of the people it's just like hey whenever they're gone they're gone she brought in so much stuff, and it was always absurd.

It would be like an Oreo that's wrapped in a caramel casing with then a Snickers bar on top of it. I mean, I wish there were half options for those because you'd see them and go, this is nuts. The other thing that was always bullshit about that is fucking TV people, as if TV didn't have the best deal at espn like espn radio wasn't second-class citizen we were a fucking uncharted island that didn't have internet or shirts okay

in comparison just i mean what we were in comparison like the television operation the absolute disdain that you would get is like just a core radio guy when you'd be over in television being like, somebody let you out today. Like, what are you, even for me, man, like I'd be over at some bigger TV thing and it's just like, what's, what's he doing here? Or like when I did the college football playoff mock thing when it first started and I started like talking and being like, well, why would you guys do with this or whatever? And people were just like, why is the fucking radio person talking all right and those fucking dickheads would come down to radio and just do a drive-by and clean us out it's so true i remember like seeing one guy in the break room and i'm like hey what what are you doing and he's like oh just taking a peek taking a peek i'm like we don't have a grade over here man we don't and he's like let's have our day yeah and he's looking at me being like i'm fucking 28

and i have a studio apartment and i live in bristol i've been in screening since i got out of fucking syracuse like i'm not killing it either buddy like stay over on your fucking side all right i just think that once you don't want to be known as the guy who takes a full donut when it seems like everyone else around you doesn't and i mean and i would have been fine with that i would like i went in church i was the first one to to grab the donut you were 10 you were supposed to do that i know no no i know i know but i'm just saying it's okay to be that but once the guy's like hey just so everyone knows i didn't have one i don't know how he said it he might have said it in passing but you don't want to be the guy that's the full donut guy when everyone

else and that that we see is half donuts and one guy didn't get his half donut it's a great point adapting surroundings adapting here's what i was talking shit let's finish talk shit they already talking shit about this guy in his long johns all right let's go um let's go with this i final ruling on it you know what you could do? You want to be a whole donut guy? Why don't you bring in 40 donuts? Why don't you bring in 40 donuts and be like, you know what I thought would be cool is everybody gets a full donut.

And then if people freak out, maybe it influences somebody else and pays you back in the back end. But I think it's two things. Adapt to everybody else, as Kyle said. And then, like Suri said, too, you guys are good on this. A lot of people probably just want to be like oh i only had a half so they feel better about themselves some people you know smaller people dainty saruti a full donut his system at 8 a.m he doesn't want that okay next email i can't believe how long we talked about that office conflict 38 5 10 175 40 miles a week runner totally irrelevant to the

conversation is it nice i work with two brothers really enjoy kneeling the older one he owns the company uh by regular saying how his younger brother's a natural athlete including a more athletic brother i highly suspect i'm correct so what we're saying here is the youngest of the three brothers is more athletic than the older brother. It's time to put an end to this issue, put it to bed. My question for you is how do we settle this debate? I'm thinking something like the NFL Combine, vertical league, shuttle drill. Maybe who can dunk on the highest basketball hoop?

Maybe juggling? Should I tell them the events in advance? Or does this give them too much opportunity to train? Because remember, we're looking to determine who the best natural athlete is, not who can train the most, just who rolls out of bed and is more impressive athletically. Both of these guys are in their mid to late 30s,

relatively active. I think distance running and gymnastics are out of the question. Jesus Christ, you think gymnastics are out of the question for them? These guys are in their 30s. I would agree with you. Right.

All right. Pommel horse time. Who's got the chalk? Anything else is probably fair game. The older one recently claimed you could probably put up one rep of 225 on the bench, but I am highly skeptical. What events would you include, or would you do a totally different idea on how to settle this?

Okay, look, I would try to, if your two other brothers want to do this, wait, is he the middle brother? Oh, no, he is not the brother. All right, so he is the non, He's not related to either of these guys. He goes, I work with two brothers. I misread. That's what I was going to say. You can't because he couldn't know the events. That'd be an advantage to him.

So if it's two people, don't tell him the events. Right. That's what he wants to do. He wants to settle the debate between who's more athletic, the older brother, who's, I guess, mid to late 30s, and the younger brother that's also around the same age or younger. That's why he's been called the younger brother. Thank you, Rosillo, for clearing that up. Here's what, whenever this happens, first of all, whenever this happens with my friend group,

everybody just inevitably picks the stuff they're good at, right? Like we had one roommate that was like, let's do basketball, skiing, and golf. We're like, shut the fuck up. Nobody's going to ski. We're going to judge each other? You got cards? Yeah, right.

Okay. I would do a free throw shooting contest. I mean, if these guys can dunk, that's incredible. But when you said who could dunk on the highest rim, it made me think that we're going to go and get some adjustable rim and see who can go higher and higher and higher. I don't think a 40 sprint time, although fun, is probably going to blow out a hamstring if you haven't run full speed in a long time. It's why so many guys screw themselves up when they're older.

The vertical jump, some of this other stuff doesn't make sense. I would make it fun. I do it closest to the pin. I do some free throws. Push-ups? Hand-to-hand. All right, fine. Throw some push-ups in there.

And then I say hand-to-hand combat. Just wrestle. Wrestle. Honestly, you only need one event and then i say hand-to-hand combat just wrestle wrestle honestly you only need one event really just hand-to-hand combat oh that'll solve that problem pretty quick what about a good old race a good old race to the tree all ages right i'm just telling you there's a lot of guys that haven't raced to a tree in a long time and if you start trying to run full speed your your body's like, whoa, what is this? What is this? Because there's like flex in your quads at the top that you're like, wait,

you haven't asked my legs to do this in a really, really long time. But maybe you do it. Maybe that's part of the question. Who holds up race to the tree better? Oh, that guy blew out his quad or hamstring. So guess what what about he loses that event what about like a ninja warrior course type thing like obviously not as

hard as that maybe but it's you know a bunch of different like obstacles that all have different strengths and you get that highlight your strengths and weaknesses like that could be something that would be one deal and whoever goes the fastest or ever finish it finishes it period wins i don't know where the hell is that gonna be you guys gonna travel to florida or something okay no no they got the everybody after that whole craze thing and like the you know the ninja warrior stuff like everyone builds them in their backyard this one down i have a neighbor that has one in their backyard like everybody's got those it wouldn't be hard to find i just don't know if that's like i don't know if that's like you know it's because it's a lot of

strength everyone has in their backyard i mean not everyone but it's not hard to find one like you could be like just google Google it. I'm sure somebody has it on Craigslist. They'll run it out to you. They're like batting cages. 10 bucks for an hour. They're everywhere. They kind of are. But the only thing is that kind of lends itself to a body type, though. You have to be kind of lean strong to be that. So maybe that's not the best way to

do it. Maybe we just hook them up with Saruti and you guys all go over to his neighbors. Yeah, I'd be like, hey, dude, here's a Hyundai. Can we borrow this for an hour? There you go. But you know what's going to happen? And we're not going to read any of i feel like hey dude here's a hundo can we borrow this for an hour here you go but you know what's gonna happen and we're not gonna read any of them we're gonna get a million follow-up emails about what events they should do based on how good the emailer is at certain events all right like i don't think i always felt like the best athletes you could really figure it out based on like what happened when a ball was in their hand all right which seems absurd to say like does that mean usain bolt isn't a great athlete when okay what's the standard of

what an athlete is right and then as close as the pin even matter and then we get into this whole dart skills thing with golf that i'm so sick of fucking hearing about because it's like all right fine because i've always said that i think golfers uh want to be considered athletes because it makes them feel better about it but i've seen a lot of people that have mastered golfers want to be considered athletes because it makes them feel better about it. But I've seen a lot of people that have mastered golf that I wouldn't consider necessarily an athlete, even though it's incredible athleticism to be so in tune with your swing and your body

that you know immediately, like the best golfer is like, oh, what did I do wrong? And okay, now all I have to do is fix it because I know exactly what happened on the previous shot that I didn't like. So I didn't want to get into that. Save it. Sorry, Rudy.

No, this goes back. This goes back to my longstanding rule that I know a lot of people think is controversial or disagree with me on. But I don't care what your 40 time is. I don't care how much you could lift. I don't care what your long jump is. If you can't just naturally play basketball and not stand out like a weirdo, you're not a good athlete. I'm sorry. Well, I tend to agree with that, but I're not a good athlete. I'm sorry. Wow.

I tend to agree with that, but I'm probably a little biased. But I also think... They don't have to be good. Just don't be awkwardly terrible. But you could still be a great athlete if you've never, ever developed any of those skills. Nobody's good at basketball later on in life because it's a really complicated thing to have your body totally coordinated unless you started

training it at a really young age or you're just so gifted like some of these kids that were like oh you know he didn't really even touch a basketball until he was 11 or he didn't start playing competitively until he was 13 or 14 and now the the guy's in the pros. It's like, okay, but did he play soccer? It's like, yes. Almost every one of those guys played soccer. So I don't ever like to be dismissive of any of it, but I tend to agree with you on the ball thing. So maybe handball, close to the pin. If one guy's saying he can rep 225 once, throw some plates on.

See what happens. But there's a really good chance unless you guys really get together or get along this well at work with each other, I don't know. I wonder, will they want to do this? Will they be like, hey, yeah, non-brother, thanks for making us

do this. You know, ask them. They should know what you should do. Here's what we'll do. We'll finish right here. Tell them it's a draft. People love drafts. Each brother gets five picks and that way they come up with the ten categories.

Each gets to pick one and so they'll feel like whatever their stuff that they're good at is recognized in the feats of brotherhood. Thanks for checking out this podcast. Thanks to Kyle and Steve.

Ryan Rosillo Podcast, Ringer Spotify. Back next week on Tuesday. Bill and I on Sundays. Outro Music you