The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Hornets Head Coach James Borrego | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: March 5, 2020

Russillo and Borrego discuss the young Hornets’ competitive play, having Michael Jordan as a resource, Borrego’s time playing college ball for San Diego, learning from Gregg Popovich in San Antonio, and more (2:20). Then Ryen briefly discusses Stephen Curry’s return to the Warriors' roster (39:17). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm on the road so today's pod will be a little bit shorter than normal but we have something different planned for you NBA head coach of the Charlotte Hornets James Borrego uh why are you having him on well you know what despite the record that team is really really competitive I didn't think they had any chance to be competitive. They've won 20 games, and I didn't know that they'd win 17, maybe on the entire season. So we're going to do that in a closing moment there, as I am, like I said, on the East Coast for an undetermined amount of time.

But today's episode of the Ryan Russillo Show on the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by State Farm. Just like basketball, the game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Like a teammate for the Dallas Mavericks last night, all that help defense coming over to help contain Zion Williamson. Zion's overall number is actually not bad,

but you've watched the game, and Dallas, I would say to this point, probably did the best job on Zion that I've seen. It was a game that I couldn't wait to watch. Luca, Zion, made sure I ran back to my hotel to be able to catch that one. And then I went late. Late East Coast guy now, staying up late watching games. But it was a lot of fun. Luka's dribble on Drew Holiday was nuts.

But a trend that I continue to see more and more. And Luka's had a few moments of it. And Luka has no excuse for doing this. But guys drive, they have wide open layups, and they're kicking it out to three like that can't be that can't be the plan but everybody's so three happy um you'll just see guys drive and they actually it's like you could finish that layup and it's like now i'm gonna kick it out to three so you're seeing a lot of guys it happens a little bit on that pocket pass or even the alley-oop where it's just a high screen roll with it's whatever i'm not going to say one five combination because it's not always the point guard but it's usually

always the five where the big rolls off the screen and you'll see guys pass up an open layup just to make the pass to the five because i guess it's cooler i don't know weird weird things going on in the nba with guys passing up open layups all over the place. Save your math, but not your math hats. Kyle, do you have a math hat? Never did have one of those. More of a history hat guy. Well played. Get a teammate like nephew Kyle

who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today. Charlotte Horowitz, head coach. James Borrego. Coach, how are you today? Doing great. Thanks for having me. So I have a bunch of different things I want to get to here today, but I'll start by confessing

that when I was doing my preseason stuff and going through every team's roster, we're doing all these things. I went, man, this Charlotte team, I'm not sure. And I know from the outside, people could just say, well, 21 and 40. But if you looked at the roster at the beginning of the year, I didn't even know that I expected that. You've played in 16 three-point games. You have a winning record in those close games. That's the most three-point games in the NBA. Every time I watch you guys, it feels like you're competing and you're in this.

So how have you been this competitive, which I actually think is a compliment to you and so many young players? How has this happened? Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, I think we've competed, number one. I think we sit out in training camp saying, let's go compete, number one. We knew what the narrative and the outside world was saying about us, but I wanted our guys really to focus in on competing, number one. Every single night, come out, compete. Now, you know every coach is saying that in training camp right everyone's coming in saying hey let's compete so it's easy to say uh it's another thing

to do it but our guys have really bought in um and i think it's really started with davante you know the surprise of davante this season uh none of us expected him to come out the gates uh playing the way he did uh so his development, how he's played, you know, the time he spent in the gym this summer in the weight room has been a major part of us playing at this level. Now we're a ways from where we want to be, but that was a major surprise for us, you know, coming into the season. So the emergence of Devontae and then Terry's been a good fit next to him. You know, I don't think anybody expected that, the fit of Devontae and Terry together. Obviously we thought Terry would be the starting point guard this season as we brought him in,

but things change, you know, and as we sat down and we watched training camp and we saw the first couple of games of the season, Devontae was emerging and Terry was playing well. And I just said, let's go for it. Let's play these two kids together. And it's given us a real backcourt, I think a true NBA backcourt that has solidified our team and gotten us to a place where we're much more comfortable right now. Then you look at our two forwards, you know, between Miles and PJ, starting with Miles, I think the last 20 games, 25 games, he's really turned the corner. So versatile guy that has developed, has grown, gives us size and versatility on the wing and on the perimeter at times. And then you add P.J. You know, we didn't know much about P.J. when we brought him in here.

But he has stepped up as a rookie when we started this season. We didn't know what to expect. But I think he's been solid. I mean, this is a player for us. He knows the game at a high level. He's made big shots. And I think to your point, how have we been in these games? I think you look at our numbers in these clutch situations,

we've got the third-best offense in the NBA. For this young group to be playing at this level has been a real surprise, a real treat. So third in offensive rating in clutch situations, 13th in defense in clutch situations, net rating, seventh in the NBA. And, you know, we didn't expect that, but we're going to take it. These guys have been poised in these situations. We've made big shots. We've made big plays. So I'm proud of where we're you know

where we're at where we're headed but i think just the emergence of davante terry miles pj has really laid a foundation for us to compete and play hard and i think we're only going to get better from here yeah i just want people to understand like this is one of those things like all year league pass i'm like okay what's close i'm like charlotte's close again like wait a minute what and then you know i watched the milwaukee game this past weekend and you know you've got pj who's a first year guy miles second year guy davante second year guy terry's been around a little bit you're using the cody and caleb martin combos who are new guys um you know and sometimes you go with with Zeller and I know Biambo was playing a little bit because you're trying to match up with the size because you've

got Brooke and Giannis staying in the game to close and it's still sort of this back and forth game and it looked like you guys went small like this isn't like usually this isn't supposed to happen and I guess the follow-up to that would be how different is it because you've been around a while you know you're with the Spurs with Orlando like how have you been able to like tell the difference because I imagine most of you coaches feel like close games the vets are just steadier and the young kids are going to screw it up how is it flipped with this group like what is different about this group no you're right when you watch NBA games at night you know these close games and there's there's some every night you probably were watching a few last night and yeah it's mostly veterans that are getting you know getting these games closed and playing at

a high level and I don't know maybe our young guys just don't know any different you know maybe they're just too young and naive not to feel the pressure but most times you know veterans are the guys closing these these situations out and young guys tend to freeze up. They panic. They don't know time and score. They panic in these moments. And our group just hasn't done that. They've kind of flipped it the other way. And we started this trend the end of last year. This team historically has had a hard time closing out games, you know, in the past.

And I think it's just one of those things, Ryan, we've been working on consistently the last two years are these situational moments. And I give our guys a lot of credit because we spend a number of minutes throughout our practices on these situationals, you know, in the fourth quarter. You know, time and score, what are we looking for here? And I'm not trying to overcomplicate it with our young guys. I'm giving them two, three things to focus on as they head into these fourth quarter situations. And so far, guys have stepped up. You know, Taze hit big shots.

You know, he hit big shots at Kansas. I think we saw that. You know, he's comfortable in those moments. Terry's been there before. Terry's hit big shots for us. TJ's been the surprise in these fourth quarters. His ability to step up and make big shots, not feel the pressure

has really been a real bright spot for us. And then Bridges too, Bridges has made big shots. So, um, yeah, maybe we just don't know any different. Maybe we're just, you know, the, the pressure hasn't got to us yet. We just haven't even, maybe the expectations aren't there. So we're playing a little bit more loose, a little bit freer, but as, as you know, in this league, most times it's the veteran guys doing that. You know, it's not a young group, young team doing that.

So that's been a major surprise for us. But I think that's a good thing as we move forward, that we have a poised young group that's comfortable in those moments, you know, only getting better. And, yeah, we are playing the youngest group since the All-Star break. I think we're playing the youngest group in the NBA all season. We're playing the second most, I believe, behind Atlanta first-year and second-year players. So we're playing rookies and second-year guys, and we're getting a ton out of them.

So I think we're in a good place. We're much more competitive than I think most expected. I think we're much more competitive in some ways than I even expected. So I love it. I love competing with this group. We come out, we fire away. We don't shy away from the moment.

We're not scared of any teams. We just go out, we play. And I think the results are speaking for themselves. Okay, this young roster, this is something I have to ask because we know that Michaelael jordan essentially is your boss are there guys that are so young that don't quite know or didn't know once they started with this franchise we're like yeah the sneaker guy and i get he was really good for everything

but have you ever had that moment with a really young player because some of these guys were born after he retired so i wonder if is there ever been a moment that's hilarious where you're like, do you guys not understand who, who we're, we're talking about here? Yeah, I agree. I, I, I think they know the brand. I'm not sure they, they know the player, you know, I don't think they understand that the type of player he was. And I think all of us, even, even when I go back and watch, um, I see him in such a different light now. Just how fierce and competitive, the big shots, the big moments. And I think what the guys don't understand is the type of defense he played as well. I think everybody remembers the big shots and they remember the titles, but he was fierce on defense.

You go back and you watch the film. This guy was all-league defensively. He made huge stops down the stretch, guarding best players. I mean, he was a big-time defender, and I don't think our guys understood that. I've had a few conversations with some of our guys just on MJ's versatility on both sides of the ball. But I agree. I think the young guys, they see, you know, they think of Jordan as a brand. That's what they know, the sneakers, the logo.

But they don't understand his game. And we've had a few times where he's come into a film session. We did this last year. He came into a film session. And that was great just to watch our guys, you know, hear from him. And he's, you know, articulating a situation. And, you know, I think some of them were just, they couldn't believe what they were hearing, you know, from Michael. So I love having him around.

He's been great. You know, he and I have a great relationship. But I don't think the young guys appreciate the type of player he was specifically. They understand the titles and the brand, but obviously he was much more than that. Have they ever watched him with you? Like, has anybody ever come in and be like, hey, I was watching some stuff on NBA TV. Like, man, he was awesome. Yeah, I saw who came to me the other day.

I think it was Terry you know Terry's talking about um I think he was watching some NBA TV and it was a close game and Michael comes off and he hit like two or three big shots and he's like how did he do that you know just the timing the moment the big shots the mentality He was just a killer. Terry, I think, appreciates that. Terry's got that type of mindset. Watching these old NBA TV games

always brings us back. Even for you and I, if we go back and watch, it's amazing watching these old teams play. The old Laker teams, I don't think they played any defense back then. It's just hilarious to watch them. But Michael was a defender. That Bulls team really defended.

So every once in a while I'll bring out some old film of, you know, old Jack Sigma. You know, who was Jack Sigma? These guys have no idea what the Sigma move was or the Kevin McHale move. You remember those days, right? The old McHale move. You remember those days, right? The, the old McHale up and unders. And, um, so every once in a while I I'll sprinkle in, in some, some old time players just

to, uh, help our players understand that the history of the game and where these, where these moves came from, what, what is a, you know, the old Sigma drills, where did those come from? So, um, it's always great to educate our guys in that regard. Where do those come from? So it's always great to educate our guys in that regard. Yeah. I mean, nobody runs any post plays anymore. So I don't, I like, I always get frustrated when I see guys, you could just see their feet and their hands and I go, they've never understood like the combination of, of these

up and unders. But now I'm like, why was me? Right. I was, I was an old, I was an old school back to the basket guy. That was me in high school and college. Undersized postman. 6'5", undersized. But I probably weighed 40 pounds more than I do right now. But I loved the weight room.

I loved the weight room back then. Wait a minute. So how big were you? And for those who don't know, James played at San Diego. So, you know, you played. Yeah, played at USC. Didn't play a whole lot. Didn't play a whole lot there,

but I was an undersized post coming out of Albuquerque. Played high school ball there, won a few state titles, and made my way to the University of San Diego, but my game was Kevin McHale, an undersized post back to the basket.

In the WCC, you could get away with it a little bit you know back then it's not the you know what do you like six five six six post player yeah you like six five six yeah I'm about six five and back then I think I my my heavy was probably 220 about 220 and you know probably 40 pounds heavier than than I am today but uh I know you'd respect that you look the weight room and I was a big weight room guy. A lot of the creatine. Remember the old creatine?

We were just pounding away on the creatine, trying to bulk up. So those were those good old USD days. But we weren't very good. I mean, we battled at USD, but there was too much to do in San Diego. There was just too much to do. Who wanted to go to the gym when you could hit the beach? Yeah, the creatine days.

I remember those just because all of a sudden you'd be like, man, this is great. Look how much bigger my arms look because of all the water retention. Then you didn't realize you were pulling muscles left and right because you were so tight all the time. Hamstrings were going. Hamstrings just blown out.

But my arms were jacked and my legs were jacked. Yes, there you go. You know what's funny about that? Maybe you just came along too early. Maybe you'd be a nice, I don't know, they wouldn't run enough post plays for you, but 6'5", I mean, who knows now? If you were 10 years younger. Yeah, who knows now?

I mean, if they were switching my pick and roll, just roll those smalls down to the block. And, well, I took Miles to the block the other day and put some work in on him. But I try to get on the court with these guys every once in a while. So Miles and I had a good little back down one-on-one in the post. So you get me out on the perimeter, I got no shot against these guys. But maybe a little back to the basket, best of three, I got a shot. So you'll play. You'll still play. Because sometimes I'll talk shot against these guys, but maybe a little back to the basket best of three, I got a shot.

So you'll play. You'll still play. Because sometimes I'll talk to guys that played that go, I never want to go out there because I don't want these guys to think less of me. And then there's other guys that go with your approach and it's like, you know, I want to remind these guys that I actually do know what I'm doing. So you'll go out there and run full court with them?

No, I don't go full. I really immerse myself there. really stick to the half court. Man, we used to play a ton. Our runs in San Antonio were epic. I mean, it was Mike Budenholzer, Sam Presti, Rob Hennigan, Joe Prunty, Brett Brown. I mean, we'd have some runs in San Antonio. But about five years ago, I stopped playing the full court.

That's all I need is to lose an ACL or Achilles right now between three kids and coaching these teams. So I stick to the half court, stick to my core work, my treadmill work, and my walking. So that does the trick for me. But I try not to embarrass myself with my guys. I don't need them thinking less of me. So stick to the half court, stick to the postee.

Maybe once in a while, challenge them to a free throw game. So what was, who was, I imagine Brown was probably the best player. I don't want to say that. No, no, that's, I don't know what to make a press. Hennigan. Yeah, that makes sense. Go ahead. Give us the breakdown.

Hennigan could shoot it. He could shoot it? What about Bud's game? Emerson group, boy, that was a good group. They could shoot it. Hennigan coming off. He knocked down a big-time knockdown shot. Chip Englund and I were here.

He was my tag team partner. Chip. Chip would not miss a shot. So Chip and I would go two on two. We'd challenge anybody, Hennigan and Prunty, Presti. Bud would get out there a little bit. You know, Bud had some game out of the Pomona days. And Brett Brown, you know, he'd get out there.

He was, Brett was all right hand. Brett loved that right hand. So some good battles man some good battles you know i don't think there's any film on it hopefully not i don't think that would be too too good for our nba careers but um some fun times for sure does jordan ever play now because i mean every now and then we'll see this, sneaky film of him showing somebody a post move. Does he do any of that stuff anymore? We had him in a shooting competition last year on the court.

We do some shooting games at the shoot-arounds. So his team, somehow, someway, his team won last time. So, yeah, he and Tony Parker teamed up on a team, and I think they got the win last year. But I don't see a lot of, you know, we haven't had him around playing a whole lot right now. So we just talk a lot, you know. What's the best stuff he says to you? Not to interrupt, but, like, I think,

and then I'll move on from the Jordan thing, but, like, what's been the lasting conversation that you've had with him, or maybe the story that you tell those that are close to you that I'm sure everybody's always fascinated about this guy well I'm fascinated by him I was he you know being greatest player of all time and just the stories the the competitiveness and I mean the one that resonated with me was just the Olympic battle and I think we've heard about it you hear it out there just you know talking to him what was that like what was that feeling like i think that's probably um one of his most memorable moments or periods of basketball you know being with his his

peers the guys that he respected uh and loved to compete against all in one gym at one time going at it and you know it was just great hearing the epic battles between he and magic and them picking teams and going at it and uh you know one day one team would win and the next day they go right back at it you know and maybe they'd split the next day and they wouldn't leave the gym until somebody won you know there was a winner there was a clear winner every, every afternoon after they left that gym. So, um, he had some great stories just on how competitive those moments were. They wasn't even about the Olympics. Uh, it was less about the Olympics and chasing the gold. Obviously they, they had a great run, but what was really at the, at the core of that run was the scrimmages behind the scenes when nobody was watching

you know picking squads and saying let's go five on five and you could imagine probably the biggest thing was was the officiating right who's called who's calling fouls here right are you calling your own is are there officials and it sounds like they they were just calling their own you know and i'm sure they were arguing chewing each other out in those moments. But to me, that was probably the most memorable story that I've heard from him. So he's a junkie. He loves the game. He loves talking the game.

I love hearing from him. So he and I text all the time. We talk on a consistent basis. And I just love hearing from him, love his feedback, just on what he sees in today's NBA. I imagine today's NBA player probably frustrates him a little bit, just how, you know, where we're at today. But he's a great resource for me.

And shoot, I never would have never imagined, you know, being here today and having that type of relationship with him. This is maybe a dumb question, but sometimes I'd like to have this segment called Dumb Questions for Smart People. But like myself, I never played in a game anybody cared about. I'm always fascinated about the speed with which, because I think most people from the outside would say,

oh, they don't run anything, they don't run anything. That's not the case. You run your sets, you have your philosophies, you have your motions, you have your rules. And then why I love the playoffs is that it really separates the men from the boys because everybody gets familiar with everything

and they start jumping the stuff and it kind of blows it all up. And then it comes down to like, okay, who can still go ahead and create a shot? And that's why those guys make so much money because they're that special. When you draw up a play, can these guys pick it up immediately? Because I'll always hear like scouting reports or somebody will be like, oh, this guy always forgets the plays or never. How quickly can most NBA players, if you sit there and want to drop something new, how

quickly can they execute? Like what's the success rate? Not on the shot make, but on them doing exactly what you wanted from a play that you maybe never practiced before. I'd say, I'd say 75% of the time you're, you're getting something that you, you drew up, you know, and I'd say probably 80% of our players in general can pick, you know, pick up concepts off the board quickly. I think the younger guys struggle off the board a little bit because there's not as many ATOs or drops in college. I don't think that's just in my experience with these young guys. When they come in, most colleges, most college coaches, you know, they have one or two sets that they go to. There's not as many of those side out of bounds

situationals that we see in the NBA. So young guys do can struggle. Um, but as vets go, they, they tend to pick things up quickly. We're, we're, you know, for first three quarters of the game, I'm drawing stuff up based off concepts that we already know. And I'm just adding a little tweak here to maybe a few sets to disguise it. I think that's one of the things we do as coaches, just you're trying to disguise a concept, you know, one of the things we do as coaches. You're trying to disguise a concept. You're running your sets, your flow throughout a game. Your ATOs, you got to try to come up with something a little bit tricky, but the concepts are the same. You're just trying to disguise it. The ones that are tough and they're getting tougher now are the fourth quarter in the game situations because these timeouts are so quick.

You know, I, I don't, I don't even have time to think I've got already know what play I have in mind and what's really helped us back to how well we've executed. We, we spent a lot of time in practice working on these sets, you know, so one or two of these sets, our guys are familiar with before, before we even hit, you know, so one or two of these sets our guys are familiar with, but before we even hit the timeout, we already know that we've executed this in practice. So that's really helped us. And, um, but I think you could get off the board, you know, it's a little bit tricky to, uh, to drop sometimes and get the concept on the fly, but I'd say the fourth quarter end of game, fourth quarter sets are probably the toughest just because it happens so quick and you got to explain the play, you know,

and make sure the timing, I think just your average player, the biggest thing we struggle with as I, as I draw with our guys is just timing. You know, when, when you draw it up, you can, it can look pretty on the board, but when you actually go out to execute it, the timing of the play and the execution of it, that's where we lose a little bit of rhythm and timing on the shot. for Popovich's runs. And what I've always heard about Popovich is that it's not just play calling. It's like a top-down philosophy where there's almost this, I've heard it described almost like as militant,

where it's this us against everybody thing and everybody buys in. And you've obviously had the right kind of franchise leaders that are more willing to submit to a coach. Maybe that's a generational thing. I've also been incredibly impressed by his adaptability. He has changed what he's done on the fly.

There are so many different times as this thing has been reincarnated. What's the one thing that stood out to you, your favorite pop story about understanding what's played into his incredible success for these two decades? Yeah, he just, boy, it was special to, to have grown up there. You know, I came, came out of nowhere. I'm at USD and, um, you know, I'm just hunting down jobs and

here comes this job in San Antonio. I'm an intern in the video room and, uh, don't know much about the organization. Obviously they had just won the title in 2003 and I come in and not really knowing what to, you know, what to expect. And, um, when I stepped in, you know, the first thing you notice is just how disciplined and organized, um, pop is. He understands people. He understands order, uh,. He comes from a military background, but there's order in his house, you know, and I think I felt that initially. And I'll get into it later. You know, that's what we're trying to do here. But Pop was extremely organized and disciplined. But yet at the same time, he's welcoming.

When you're a part of his group and his organization, he trusts you. He believes in you. And, you know, I'm probably in my second year in the video room. You know, I'm just a young buck. I'm just trying to survive. He probably doesn't even know my name at this time. You know, he calls me Ray Romano. My old Ray Romano stories, you know, that's what he would call me.

He'd either call me Albuquerque or Ray Romano, you know, because he liked that show. And it's kind of eerie when I see Ray sometimes on TV. I'm like, wow, I do kind of see it. But anyway, you know, he pulls me into the video room and, you know, it was after a bad loss. And he says, let's watch some films. So I think it was a Utah game. We just got pummeled in Utah, you know, as the the old, just physical Utah team, just beating our tail. And so we're watching film and at this time he doesn't know me very well, but, um, he starts

asking me, what do you think? You know, and I'm just, I'm scared out of my mind, you know, what do I say? You know, it's so, you know, he puts me on the spot for a couple minutes. Why? You know, he starts grilling me on why or what are you thinking and what would you run and who would you have gone to here? And he's just grilling me on this. So I'm scared out of my mind. And for about 30 minutes, it goes on, you know.

And so I leave that room. I have no idea if I'm going to have a job the next day or what, you know, is my fingerprint going to work after this? And sure enough, you know, the next few days he kept coming to me and, you know, he'd start to gain a little bit more respect, you know, for me along the way. And we spent more time in the video room and we had some very, you know, tight, intimate moments in those film sessions. I mean, he would, he was, he'd talk out the game and he was very specific in these moments and really taught me the game at a high level. And, you know, for me, it's probably not a day that goes by that I don't think about him or, you know, how he would do things.

Obviously I'm doing my own thing. I've got, I have to be my own coach, but so many of the foundational pieces that make me the type of coach I am today came and were formed back then. It really comes down to detail, knowing your job, doing your job, and clarity. I use that word a lot around here is clarity. Pop is very clear on what he expects out of each player and players know their role and they know what type of system we have. And I think most people, you know, most coaches, most organizations, they, they say that, but it's another thing to live it and be about it. And I think San Antonio has done that. Uh, they've been about the right things. They they've stayed

consistent. And I think pop would even admit though, it started, you know, back with Tim Duncan, you know, Tim took coaching to Tim, allowed himself to be coached this way, uh, the way pop, you know, coaches. And it was really the, the piece that led to their culture being built is just how Timmy accepted coaching from pop. And, you know, when we lost, Timmy took the blame. He shouldered the blame. When we won, he praised everybody else.

And that's really what the San Antonio model is. It's about being something bigger than myself. It's unselfishness. And I think Tim and Pop were just a great combination to set that culture. And obviously they've been doing this for over 20 years now, but I think it was the relationship between pop and Tim is what set the tone for the entire group. So special place, and I'll never forget it,

but just some great pop stories along the way, and just being a young guy in that mix was, was a lot of fun. A couple more things before I let you get back to the important stuff. When I look at the East and the depth of the East, you know, it feels like these teams at the top are different. You know, Giannis is different than Embiid. I don't want to leave anybody out. Pascal's taking another jump up.

Tatum's been on fire since the all-star break. You know, Jimmy Butler's the guy don't want to leave anybody out. Pascal's taking another jump up. Tatum's been on fire since the All-Star break. You know, Jimmy Butler's the guy that you want to go to war with. But when you look at, and I'm sure you talk about other teams and other players

and that kind of stuff, so I don't know how far into this you want to go, but is it only about how your team matches up? Because I think some coaches are wired that way. Or will you look at teams

and say, well, this guy's different than this guy, or this team clearly is the best. We know what Milwaukee's record is, but since none of these teams have done it in the playoffs with these groups, like how do you look at some of these teams that are ahead of you guys in the standings? Yeah, you know, so much is about matchups. It's amazing. You know, a team that, you know, even last year we struggled with was Philly just because of Embiid. That's really

a matchup problem for us. We actually matched up better in the last couple years with Milwaukee than we did against Philly. For us, Embiid is such a problem in the post. We've only seen them once or twice this year, but

he's just so big so physical and as you said earlier so many teams don't play through the post anymore you know the post is such a it's an area that you don't prepare or spend a lot of time on and I think you look at Philly their strength is on the interior when Embiid is going when he's strong on the inside he's a problem really for any team in the league and especially us you know we don't have that size or physicality to to compete with him so we got to get creative in how how we guard him now this season I think we've seen Milwaukee go to the post even more than they've done in the past and I think they're going to need this come playoff time.

I think we saw that in the Toronto series last year, just the amount of bodies they're going to throw at Giannis. And when they do that, when they load up to Giannis, where can they use him and be more effective and more efficient? And I think I've seen a little bit more post for Giannis this year than we've seen in the past. Brooke Lopez in the post a little bit more. So I think as the playoffs start and the game slows down, you alluded to this earlier, it becomes a chess match.

And having a post presence in today's game is going to be very, it's going to be interesting to watch the playoffs and how many teams start to go to the post a little bit more. You've seen Kawhi do it. You've seen Paul George do it a little bit. LeB've seen Kawhi do it. You've seen Paul George do it a little bit. LeBron can do it some. Obviously, Anthony Davis can do it some. Giannis can do it some now. Brooke Lopez. Then you add to Siakam, who's a post-up guy. And then Embiid. The Embiid-Horford combination is going to be interesting.

For us, it's a matchup thing, you know, uh, more than anything, and that's what the playoffs are. But, uh, Embiid is a problem inside for us. Tatum's a little bit more perimeter, you know, Tatum's a little bit more on the perimeter one-on-one facing you, um, which were a little bit, were a little bit more geared to guard, um, a player like Tatum, even though he can go off at any time, and he did this this year, one-on-one, he just made shots over the top of us. But for us, you know, the problem has been the post-ups, the guys on the interior that can really beast you and score over the top of you inside. So I think this will be an interesting playoff run. I think this, I mean, the East is

got some depth to it, but there's some really nice matchups. I think the, I mean, the, the East is, is, has got some depth to it, but there's some really nice matchups. I think the Milwaukee Toronto matchup, you add Miami to the mix. Now I think Boston's going to be right there. You know, Philly's a wild card based on just, you know, in a playoff series with that talent, you never know. I mean, you can go an entire 82 games here and Philly could be one thing. And then you get to the playoffs. Shoot, that size and physicality inside could dominate a playoff series. So, I think it's going to be fun to watch. been a better team than Philly, but if Philly's healthy in the first round, I don't know. It looks like that matchup's going to be avoided now. And then Miami's on this

absolute tear, but they're a weird road team like Philly is too. But I'm not going to keep asking about all these teams. I want to close with this. I want to ask about your team finally here. Although I love the idea of you playing Embiid on the scout team, if that's something to think about next year. I

love Bridges' personality. I never know with some of those guys because I still think this league, because we've no longer shunned the undersized four, but then the mistake can be made that, hey, these undersized fours, let's get as many as we can and let's see what happens. PJ's been really, really cool for you guys.

And back to what you'd said originally, I was always worried because I know Terry wanted his own team out of boston that whole year with him you know you go back to a couple years ago in the playoffs he'd had a really good run so he feels good about himself then everybody's back and then a year with kairi was a mess so you know terry's like look i want to get paid and and he got paid with you guys and then now davante comes along it's like wait a minute i thought all these shots are going to be mine but you actually as you said in today's nba you kind of need that backcourt where both guys, like it's not a problem anymore. It's almost a necessity.

Like I'd rather have more guys that can make shots than worrying about distributing all these. But is Miles, the guy personality wise, if you close strong, continue to compete, does he kind of,

I know you never want to feel like you're leaving anybody else out. But I just, I loved when last year when somebody was like, I can't believe you were left off all rookie. And he's like, why? Sucked. He's like, why would I? Like when he said that, I just, I loved when last year, when somebody was like, I can't believe you were left off all rookie. And he's like, why sucked? It's like, why would I like, when he said that I went, Oh my God, like this guy actually holds himself to a certain standard

and just some of these accolades. And I'm just wondering like what you think will be the most important thing, maybe from a personality standpoint for you to close and build off going into next year. Well, I think you said it right. I think he's a hungry kid. He wants to get better and he doesn't believe like he's arrived. He's got a lot to prove. I think those are the type of guys we're trying to bring in here. And I think Miles fits that. That mold is I want to be something. I'm not where I need to be. I'm hungry. I'm curious. And I haven't arrived yet. And that's not easy in today's league. A lot of guys come in this league thinking they've already arrived. And Miles, PJ, Devontae, the Martin brothers, Jalen McDaniels, and Terry Rozier, these are guys that are hungry. They've got something to prove. And those are the type of guys we're trying to bring in.

And Miles is no exception. I love the quote when he said that. I loved it. Yeah, I was trash last year i don't i didn't deserve it and he's come back and he's worked this summer he's worked his tail off um and now we're seeing him turn the corner i think the last 20 games he's been a very efficient player and do we need to figure out pj and miles yeah we'll figure it out over time. But as you know in this league, you just keep getting your guys better. We'll figure it out. Time will help give us opportunities to figure this thing out. But if we continue to develop and grow and Miles being one of those guys,

we're going to be in good shape. We believe in our player development program. We believe that everybody that steps in our player development program. You know, we believe that everybody that steps in our gym gets better. And I think more than anything, I've been most proud of that the last two years that, you know, back to your original question, how are we even in this position to be playing with these teams? When you look at the rosters, it's because of what we've done internally and how we've developed the identity we've given our guys. And we bring in the right guys that are hungry and want to get better, we don't know where this thing can go.

And I don't know where Miles' ceiling is. I don't know where PJ's ceiling is. I don't know where Devontae's ceiling is. But if we continue to develop and grow and stick together, I do think there's a bright future here. So I'm proud of the group. I think we've got a ways to go, but we're headed in the right direction.

I think it's really built under that model of player development. And I learned that in San Antonio. I'll always learn that from Pop, that he expected all of us to get better. Whether you were in the film room, you were an assistant coach, you were a player,

come in, do your job and get better. And that's what we're trying to do here. And I think so far we've done a good job of that. You got a bunch of fighters. Absolutely. you're a player come in do your job and get better and that's what we're trying to do here and i think so far we've done a good job of that you got a bunch of fighters absolutely i i love the personality of all these guys you know i'd rather have somebody who thinks he's better than he is than somebody who's doubting himself all the time and that's what your team is and i know some people listen to this probably haven't paid attention but i'm just telling you like it's i've been impressed like not every not every team gets a passing grade by only winning a championship.

And I think whatever the standard was and expectations, I've been impressed by the team. That's why I want to have you on. So thanks a lot, man. I really, really appreciate the time. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me. All right, cool.

This was a lot of fun. I've met him a couple times. He's been nothing but awesome to me. And when you spend that many years with the Popovich crew out in San Antonio, you're probably going to have a good foundation for how you want to run a team. But we all know, unless one of the Charlotte young guys turns into a superstar, I'm not sitting here saying, hey, I'm picking him to win the East next year. But some fun.

All right, Steph Curry comes back. East next year, but some fun. All right, Steph Curry comes back, and Steph Curry's return plays into one of, I think, the biggest mistakes people are making about sports now, and that is when a player is coming back from injury,

people are like, why would he come back? Maybe, I know this is a really, really difficult concept to process here, but maybe the guys that grow up playing these games and then playing professionally and a really, really difficult concept to process here, but maybe the guys that grow up playing these games and then play them professionally and are really, really good at them like doing it. I know that's mind-blowing, but maybe Steph is coming back because he actually wants to play, and it was a hand injury. Now, I understand the counter to this is why would you have Steph come back?

Now, you're going to win some more games, and now it's going to hurt your lottery odds and all these different things. Well, if that's the case, then you should never have anybody ever come back ever. And I'm going to say this cause San Antonio fans hate it, but you know, you did it with David Robinson and the injuries like look at it. It was like,

no, those guys were hurt. They didn't tank for Duncan. Like, yeah, you did. And it's okay. Everybody else did it,

but it's still taking was accepted the way it is today. Although I think taking is actually a little less accepted because we had one year, everybody else did it but it's still taking was it accepted uh the way it is today although i think taking is actually a little less accepted because we had one year a couple years ago where a third of the team's going in the league you're like all these teams already want to go zero and 82 so yes i know steph coming back hurts your chance but what are you going to do have them sit the entire year and you knew that clay was probably going to sit for the entire year so that's not a good counter argument, considering everything that Golden State went through, especially when we're talking about leg injuries versus just a simple hand injury.

So I just don't think it's fair for the former players. And I say this is still from the rest obsessed media. I just don't think it's fair to think that every single guy that wants to come back from injury shouldn't come back when he's totally cleared and ready to go. Because if the game is, well, let's take as long as you possibly can, it's always louder, then no one should ever come back from anything. Just think how rested you would be. How is that guy so rested?

Oh, he retired at 23. Oh, okay, cool. Does he like playing sports? Yeah, but we just want to keep him fresh for the rest of his life. Oh, smart. That's really smart. Every case is an individual case, but it is treated by like this.

It's just turned into this thing where a guy comes back for injury and people are like, why would he do that? Why would he come back? Why would he want to play? What is he, a psychopath? And it always gets back

to like one of my favorite things about Garoppolo. Garoppolo was like, hey, you know what I'd like to do is be a quarterback of a football team. And I'm telling you right now, here's a pop quiz. What do you think Garoppolo had more fun doing?

Leading his team to a Super Bowl appearance or sitting behind Brady? I'm going to guess it's the first one. And I love my former partner, Danny Cannell, but he was the only pro athlete I'd ever met that didn't want to actually play in games ever. And so he would always use his, and that's what we do sometimes, we use our sensibilities to apply to other people's decisions. And when the Garoppolo stuff was happening, he'd be like,

why wouldn't you just take the money and sit back and wait? And you're like, I don't know. I think probably by 30, he'd like to play in one fucking game. Maybe one. So just remember that. Just remember that next time that you're thinking, why would this guy come back? Why would he want to play?

He actually wants to play play? Like, what? Just remember that sometimes these guys actually really like it. And it's all they've done their entire life. So the other thing that I'm going to be hitting on, this is my new thing that I'll be doing soon. I thought the 90s NBA players were really protective of their era. And there was a joke I used, but I'm not going to use it twice

because I'm trying not to repeat myself as I get older. But, you know, so far I give myself a C- on that one. The guys that just retired are the most biased NBA opinions in the game. These guys are nuts. Richard Jefferson destroyed Timcan the other day i can write down a list of who kendrick perkins loves and who he hates and he's never changing his mind and that doesn't make him that much different from most media guys but i'm just

like for all the years of this guy never played the guys that did play you will never deviate on an opinion against a teammate who you will absolutely back and an opponent who it feels like you're constantly dumping on. So that's a new thing. I'm going to start keeping track of this stuff and I will share it with you. As far as the list of all the numbers that I did for that massive NBA versus NFL cap increase percentages, quarterback contracts, fake ones, real ones. increase percentages, quarterback contracts, fake ones, real ones. It's going to have to be like four guests cancel on me before I share that for you.

And I'm just going to do a parental guidance sticker on that pod and just be like, this one's for the real ones. This is for the people that are still listening. So I'm not going to do that one today, but I'll be with Bill on Sunday. And then I have a really big guest lined up. It's going to be a media, media sit down. I'm going to ask this person about their entire career and it may get personal. I'm going to try

to make the guy cry, but that's the name I can't share with you yet. But it's the plan is to hopefully do that one next week. All right. so everybody have a great weekend. Be safe. And please rate, review, and subscribe to the Ryan Russillo Podcast on The Ringer. Thank you.