The Ryen Russillo Podcast - How NBA Star Status Impacts Playoff Pressure, Bucks GM Jon Horst, Plus a Sweet 16 of “The Worst Guys”

Episode Date: March 23, 2023

Ryen opens with how different NBA stars’ status in the league impacts how much pressure is on them to win a title this year (0:31). Next, he chats with Bucks GM Jon Horst about what it’s like building a team around Giannis, the MVP race, a look back at the Jrue Holiday trade, and more (19:27). Then, the guys go through a Sweet 16 bracket of the worst type of guys (47:21) before closing it out with some listener-submitted life advice questions (1:08:36). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Jon Horst Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

on today's pod we will talk about status and what it costs you a conversation about dame and other nba players with the most playoff pressure on them john horse not as much pressure with that ring and janice the gm of the Milwaukee Bucks. We'll talk some Bucks and other stuff. Life advice and a sweet 16 of the worst guys. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything?

Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. As we gear up for the playoffs, you know, like a lot of years, kind of think about what's on the line for all of the superstars in this league.

And there's a lot. I think we're about to go to war here because I have no idea what's going to happen. And there's going to be some good players that lose early and they're going to wonder what that means for them moving forward. But I was listening to Dame Lillard with JJ Redick and Tommy Alta the other day on the podcast and it got me thinking kind of like how we talk about Dame.

Because in general, when we talk about NBA stars, I think NFL quarterbacks fall into this too. We can be dicks. I can even be it sometimes. I'd like to think that I'm pretty fair if I decide that I'm going to be critical of somebody and critical to the point where I'm like, I just don't know if you're one of those guys

or if you're actually a number one in the kind of player a team can build around and win with. I won't say that unless I feel really good about it. And that's usually one or two seasons, rarely one. But we do say it about a lot of players. So when I think about how fair we can be, because honestly, if you have enough determination and time, you can kind of argue against everything, right? Any playoff run, this player's success, the team building that we've seen in recent NBA history that we're not seeing as much the last couple seasons.

But we can definitely downgrade someone's accomplishment or we can downgrade their accomplishments if they don't win a ring because that's super easy, right? Hey, he doesn't have a ring. Why am I supposed to be talking about him as one of the greats of all time or one of the top five players in the NBA? And maybe that's the value of a ring, right? Maybe the value of a ring is that we forget a lot

of the little things. I remember Golden State with their first run, Doc Rivers saying, well, you know what? A lot of guys were hurt if they went up against. And you're like, okay, but every single playoff year, there's one, maybe two dramatic injuries that changes the entire outcome. And like I said, maybe that's good. Maybe it's good that we forget these little things along the way. Granted, that team's fan base that's on the losing side or maybe the winning side, but more likely the losing side will remember those little specific things that most of us forget. And again, like I said, maybe that's kind of cool. Maybe that's the best part of the accomplishment, whether it's Durant's foot on the line against Giannis in game

seven. A reminder there, Durant had 48 points And if his toes behind the line and his 49 points, the Nets with that team beat the Bucs. And we're left sitting here watching Giannis win MVPs. If he doesn't win a title that year, who knows, maybe they're more motivated. So you can't connect at all and say, if he doesn't have that one, he'd never have one. But if Giannis didn't have one, we would talk about him very differently, even though he'd probably be the exact same player. Durant had 48. That's the most points ever in a game seven in NBA history. And like I said, if it's 49, maybe we're talking about players a lot differently. And then that playoff run too, that was a lingering kind of hangover of me talking about

Durant going, he's the best player, missing time, he's not healthy. And then I think as you listen to this podcast, you've heard me transition going into I can't have it be Durant anymore, even though his size, handle, pull-up, dribble, and getting the shots that he gets and makes, that's the special talent. That's beyond anybody else. But he just doesn't play enough at this point to put him ahead of Giannis anymore. I mean, he went for a cool 35-10-5 in that series, and they lost, and it's almost like that series doesn't even count for the Durant legacy unless you really are digging into it or doing a two-hour podcast on Kevin Durant. The Ray Allen three against the Spurs that sent it to overtime. Spurs fans won't forget this, but man who had a steal on what was a terrible turnover from LeBron under 30

seconds to go. And if you hated LeBron, boy, are you mad how that game turned out because that would have been nice fodder for your anti-LeBron stance. You'd be like, oh, biggest spot, huge turnover. Manu goes the other way, he's fouled. He actually missed a free throw that would have made it a four-point game. Only made one of two after knocking down two earlier. So, raise three wouldn't have meant anything, and that changed everything, because then Miami gets their title with that group against the Spurs. Granted, they had

already beat Oklahoma City, but, you know, it's another ring. And it's the same as if you're talking about Brady. You're like, well, if this didn't happen, this didn't happen, this didn't happen. It's like, yeah, but all those things happen, because you're only focusing on the things you can take away from a player, and not focusing on the other things that he could potentially have had if things had worked out his side. So, like I said, maybe we should forget some of these smaller things because if you really wanted to, you could do it all day.

And then all of a sudden you're just downgrading everybody. That doesn't seem like very much fun. Like, why are we even watching and talking about this sport? So, as I mentioned at the top, I saw Lillard with Redick and it was really good. And it got into kind of how we look at Dame. Like right now, just blink, whatever. Malcolm Pfeiffer.

I say Dame Lillard. You say Dame Lillard to your group of NBA friends that are super into it. Like what's the consensus? Like, man, he's really good. Look at the scoring numbers. Man, when he goes,

like his guards go, like is he that far off the rest of those dudes maybe not but there's no real playoff resume to get excited about uh it's a western conference finals against the warriors where they got swept durant wasn't even playing remember durant got hurt in the houston series came back played like 12 minutes against toronto in the finals um so when you say, you know, has Dame Lillard ever had like a real sniff of playoff success? Not really, because even though they were in the Western Conference Finals, it didn't feel like they were a real contender with it. But it started, the conversation on the podcast started getting into like, you know, how are you going to reconcile your career if you end this whole thing without a ring? And Reddick was very open going like,

look, I talked to my therapist about it. It was hard for me to move on from it. And they both said some similar things. But to focus on what Lillard said, it was like, look, I did it the right way. Where he even followed up as soon as he said it, saying this is not me knocking super teams. But it was also him reminding everybody

that he wasn't pursuing a super team to get out of there, to get out of Portland. Although that's TBD, considering where this goes. And some of his recent comments saying, I don't want to be here for rebuilding phase. You know, he said, look, whether it's the relationships, the money you put together, like I'll have a fulfilled career if this is all that it is. And I couldn't help but think, even though most of us, you know, me talking and all of us listening are pro athletes, like I could say it, but that's probably what I would say if I didn't win a ring. Like I would find some way to

process feeling good about what is an incredible opportunity to be able to be a hall of famer and have this kind of career, but never have the ultimate goal. So you'll kind of come up with some other stuff being like, Hey, look, I know that's the goal, but man, did I have a lot of fun and did I do all these great things? Knowing deep down if you had actually won one, you'd be like, yeah, a lot of that other stuff is kind of bullshit. Lillard's 32, as I mentioned, will be 33 this summer. He's just at about 20,000 points for his career. 10,000 points from now seems a little lofty, not impossible. Players are playing longer than ever, shooting age as well.

Although his quickness off the dribble and getting into open spots, that would diminish at some point. So if it's not 10,000, because 10,000 more points is going to put him as a top 10 scorer of all time, knowing that there will be other people moving up that are still playing. Let's say 8,000 points, that would put him right now at 10th, just ahead of Moses Malone. So what do you do with Dane if that's what it is, but the playoff resume is a continuation of what it's been

throughout his entire career? Can you say he's good five years after he's retired? Can you say, granted, good is silly, but can you say he's one of the greats? And as I remind us all, those aren't, you know, the rules are that you're not allowed to do that. Like how many Chris Paul arguments do you think I'm winning in 10 years? Not many, not looking forward to those. And I'm going to get to some of the playoff pressure with certain groups and certain players that we have and kind of separating those two. And that's why I think Lillard's a really good example of this because

as great as he's been and as great as the final numbers will be, you'll go, okay, but he wasn't really Steph. The Kyrie conversation's always very difficult, just going like, what am I going to do with him historically? Westbrook's been this complete 180 as far as I think what people thought he was and the impact that he had to now going to all of these different teams where it seems like how do we even find a way to fit him in if he's not the ball-dominant player? He wasn't Oklahoma City.

And look, I don't want to turn this into this whole Westbrook thing again. I think it's all been said. what it got me thinking about was that maybe Lillard just is in that group that doesn't have the pressure on him that the other players have that we know. There's no real debate. We know who the best five or six are. And those guys end up taking all the shit. So there's really good players where when they don't have playoff success, we just kind of shrug or it's like, wait, if Lillard got a ring at 36 with another team, then we're all of a sudden going to pretend he was a different dude? That doesn't seem like that makes any sense. So as far as making the point of, well, if he wasn't that guy, isn't this actually all playing out the way it's supposed to?

Because if he was actually one of those dudes and that much better, then he'd have better playoff success. And we'd give him more credit for doing it on his own instead of joining up with somebody else. Because that's the other weird part of it too. Imagine having a Damian Lillard argument with guys and he only makes it to the Western Conference Finals in 2019 and then someone says, yeah, but he did it the right way. Nobody's going to want to say that. You'd laugh at your friend for doing it that way. So when I look at Lillard, who's not even part of this conversation as we move it forward because they're going to be out of the playoffs, three and a half out of the playing game, they're shutting it down, like whatever. I wanted to come over to kind of a definitive list, but also that separation,

that line of separation where it's like, yeah, you're really good and you may make all NBA teams and you're going to have all these all-star appearances and you're going to be in the Hall of Fame and the final numbers are going to be incredible. But you were kind of below this line of pressure. All right. So if I look at the number one guy, it's going to be Jokic. It's his fifth playoff season coming up. He had the Western Conference Finals in the bubble year against the Lakers. I don't think many people gave Denver much of a chance. The Suns in four sweep was bad because it felt like, and something that I'll be looking at here, if Denver goes far in the playoffs, it's like, wait, will Jokic become somewhat of a

liability defensively, even though I do think his activity on defense is better than the internet would have you believe, but it's just never going to look as good with him because visually it never looks as good. And he's not as good as some of the other, he's clearly not as good defensively as some of the other dominant big men. But I don't even count the Golden State five-game series loss last year. Monty Morris was their number two scorer. The team was hit by injuries. So last year's run. But if Jokic has an early exit with all the MVP attention and how nasty that it's gotten this year, like get ready. If you don't like Jokic and they lose in the second round, it's going to be Christmas for you this summer. Number two, and this could be three, so three could be two, but

as of right now, it's Harden and Embiid. I've already talked about Harden too much already. I'm not going to anymore. We all get the conversation around him in the playoffs, but Joel's going into his sixth playoff run. He's had four second round exits. Last year against Miami, he missed the first two games early. I don't care about that one. last year against Miami, missed the first two games early. I don't care about that one. The Atlanta one is on Ben Simmons. It's not an Embiid. But this is a dude that might win the MVP this year that's clearly a top five player that is above that line of pressure where you're supposed to have all this pressure, where I still think, and I mentioned this on Sunday with Bill, I'm not suggesting, hey, we should shit on these guys more. That's not what I'm doing.

But for whatever reason, and I think it's because he is actually so liked, which is the opposite of how he seems to feel about himself, that he has not reached that what's going on with this guy phase, maybe locally in Philly, but not nationally. If you look at national shows and all of the content out there, Embiid is not in the crosshairs like other players of his stature, which is fine. I'm okay with it, but he's kind of like on deck behind Jokic here. The reason I say the Harden-Embiid combo is number two and could be number three, because if the Suns come back with Durant, Durant's in an entirely different category. He's already got the rings. They're probably the most downgraded rings of any modern superstar, which is silly because as I mentioned minutes ago,

I thought for a while there for a two-year stretch, I wouldn't have taken anyone ahead of him. But if Durant comes back, it's almost like he's at zero. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that's what the perception is of him joining one of the great teams of all time with Golden State, where it's like, yeah, he got his rings. But just be honest with me. If you're not a Durant fan, not necessarily even anti-durant you probably diminish those a little bit more than some of the other ones even if those were constructed as well with super teams chris paul it just hasn't looked as good it just hasn't trust me i'm watching every night hoping i see some sign i got really excited for a couple weeks

there in january i'm not even sure if after what happened against Dallas last year and blowing the 2-0 lead against the finals, I don't even know if anybody's like anti-Chris Paul. People are just like, dude, you're still talking, right? And I get it. And then Booker kind of skates in a way where he would have more of this pressure on him if Durant weren't there or if it weren't this Chris Paul thing going on for a decade and a half. Then there's a drop-off. Clippers, because Kawhi's already got his rings. Paul George has got the injury. They put this team together.

They put all the resources into it. It looks like it's supposed to be better. They've had some nice stretches, but the George injury changes everything. So if the Clippers are out early, especially when you start looking at where these 4-5 matchups are and how 4-5-6 and beyond are going to shake out, if Durant comes back, will teams be tanking the last couple days hoping to get out of that 4-5 matchup and much rather play against Memphis or Sacramento? Absolutely. That will happen.

And I don't blame teams for wanting to do it. But the Clippers, because it's been so long and disappointing and the uncertainty, and here we go again, another chapter in the injury history of this group, I feel like it's kind of a wash. And Kawhi already has his hardware. And George is in that second group, which is kind of like the Jimmy Butler group. Jimmy Butler's a terrific player. Look at the numbers from last year. He might be All-NBA again this year. The team isn't as good. That might work against him with the voters. year. The team isn't as good. That might work against him with the voters. But Butler doesn't carry the same burden, not even close as the other dominant wing players. Giannis, I could put on this list only because of second ring pressure, that if you really are going to go down as one of the all-time greats, right? Like we're talking when it's all said and done, could Giannis be top 10 of all time? He's tracking that way. He'd need another one. So with Giannis, we're not even there yet. It would have to happen a few more years.

And trust me, it will happen because this is what we do. Memphis too young, Sacramento too young, Golden State, the whole group. They got their extra ring, it feels like, last season. Luka still too young. Trey, as great as the numbers are, he probably has way more to do with figuring out his own role on the team as opposed to where he is in the standing of all this stuff and i already hit on butler tatum really could be number four here and my perception of all this could be off you could have different ones you know i think i pay enough attention to this stuff tatum last year in the nba playoffs most points most assists

did play in more games because they reached the finals the easter conference finals losses with him don't bother me as much because i feel like a few of those were actually just way ahead of schedule as the organization was like, wait, I guess we're in the Eastern Conference Finals. Miami lost, whatever. I thought Miami was the better team. They didn't have an answer for Bam. But all the Tatum stuff wasn't exactly great in the finals. It felt a little stagnant.

He came back and he was a better player and he was in that MVP conversation. But since the All-Star break, he hasn't looked as good. He was terrific in Sacramento. The team hasn't looked as good. I believe he's good enough that he will figure it out and the celtics probably put together some kind of run here when everybody's healthy but they're not going to be the favorites coming out of the east i don't think anybody in their right mind would pick a healthy boston against a health healthy milwaukee but with tatum there's kind of that slight line it's not solid bold black ink it's just kind of you know line. It's not solid, bold, black ink. It's just kind of, you know, it's faded a bit.

But there does feel like there's a little bit of a line in that separation of who he is. And that really comes down to status. The status you have in the league is the price that you pay when it comes to pressure. Every one of these stars wants that status. Most of them, even though they need help, want to kind of be the guy. And you have to kind of go through getting your ass kicked enough to go, maybe I don't always want to be the guy, or maybe I'd like another guy. Because everybody needs another guy. So when it's all said and done about any of these players, the status while you play, you may have reached your goals,

but because of it, the price you'll pay will end up costing you much more historically. The tournament is heating up and there's no better place to get in the action than FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. That's because right now, FanDuel is giving new customers a no-sweat first bet up to $1,000.

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He is the general manager of the Milwaukee Bucks, who are the one seed in the East. He has a title, and he has maybe the best player in the world. General manager, John Horst. Okay, John, I want to start with this team. At the beginning of the year, he has a title and he has maybe the best player in the world general manager john horse okay john i want to start with uh this team at the beginning of the year you know and you're in a good spot here where it's kind of like all right the bucks we're going to give them the benefit of the doubt

we should because the history because the talent because of janice but in the beginning it was like okay where's the depth coming from then you add ingles you get the guys back healthy uh you add jay crowder like where are you now in comparison to maybe the questions you had about how deep you could go and how malleable you were as a lineup depending on who you face in the playoffs? Yeah, I think our depth is great. We've really felt strong about this team since the start of the season. We knew there was going to be some adversity with Chris starting in the year with Pat Connaughton, Joe Ingles working his way back in. I think we always understand that it's not going to be the final product on

day one. And so there was always a view and a version of this team that we were going to try to build around the trade deadline as well. And I think what you see now is a team that has over the last 25 games or so when mostly healthy has performed, you know, top five, top six type offense, top one or two defense, you know, overall net rating, best in the league. We've done that in a relatively tough strength of schedule. So this team whole has been really good.

And hopefully, like you said, I love your word, malleable, hopefully a lot of different versions and iterations of this team for a playoff run. But at the start of the year, our depth was good too. I mean, we really got through a tough stretch of the season being within striking distance of the top spot in the East and a really tough East all year. And that's really credit to the guys like Brooke and Drew and Giannis and Grayson and Bobby, some of the guys that have played more consistently for us throughout the year, we've had a deep team to even be in that position prior to getting fully healthy. You make the Drew trade. And whenever you look at these trades now, that really is more of a

reflection of the modern NBA of like, okay, the price is three unprotected. Maybe we get a swap in there or whatever. And this is insightful, but I've been talking about it going, I can't, I don't want to say I can't wait until it happens because it's going to be awful, but there's going to be some team being like, oh my God, we got killed on this long-term. Your team is probably better positioned where you're like, I don't know that we're going to be totally freaked out

about where one of these bigs lands in a couple of years. But then you look at the Drew Price and then to see it way it plays out, like there's, I know there's no regret. So I'm not asking you if there's none, but getting him in the building and then having him every day and deciding to shut down different perimeter players based on what you had to do and everything else that was involved in that transaction. I guess you're just looking at, I'm not saying you get a discount, but that's going to be one of the ones historically where I feel like, okay, yeah, we had no issue with the price because we got who we got. Well, I think it was one of the first ones, too. I mean, if you really think about how aggressively we pursued Drew, not only from a draft capital perspective, but we traded really good players at the time. You know, George Hill and Eric Bledsoe were very high performing Milwaukee Bucks.

In addition to the draft capital, we gave up, but we felt like Drew was that, you know, we did all the analysis, all of our studying, scouting, you know, kind of the whole process that we go through to make a decision on a player that we target and we want to acquire. He was clearly the guy. And we then try to figure out how to best accomplish the deal and preserve a lot of our core of our roster. You know, the guys were able to preserve still with us today was really impactful. And I think, yeah, it's worked. And I think you have to make these bets to really compete for championships. And sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

I'm very blessed and lucky that, you know, the guy we got has since been an all-star. He's been a multi-time all-NBA defender. He'll be that again this year. He's an NBA champion. He's an all-star. He's been a multi-time all-NBA defender. He'll be that again this year. He's an NBA champion. He's an incredible human being. He's been unbelievable in our community. Great teammate. I think he's won the NBA teammate of the year award. So his accolades both from a team perspective and really an individual perspective have been remarkable. And so I don't know that we knew we were getting an Olympian all-star NBA champion, teammate of the year,

community person to the level of what he's done, but he's done it. And so I guess that makes whatever happens going forward, irrelevant. Honestly, my point, it'll matter to the impact of the team at some point, but we did the deal for a reason and it worked. And the guy we got was well worth whatever ends up happening. Of all those factors, and they're all good ones and it's accurate, the factor of showing commitment to moving future draft capital to Giannis to get the extension, how much was that baked in to the decision? Yeah, the answer is completely. I don't know if it's not the exercise of showing

him though. It's, it's the actual commitment. I think him understanding and knowing and believing and trusting that, you know, from myself, from our organization and ownership level, you know, on the business side, the financial commitment of those types of things, um, from a coaching perspective, uh, being all in, I think, I think Giannis knows and believes that from day one, when you have someone like him, who is really a generational talent, he's the MVP of our league, which I know we'll get into later. He he's been that multiple times. He'll be it again. Uh, he's a champion, all the things he's done already at his age and in his young career. Um, we have an obligation.

I always call it an awesome responsibility to be all in. And so it's not really kind of trying to show him that it's just doubling, tripling down on what we've already tried to commit to him and show him, you know, in years past. And, and we've done it since like drew, we did it in a different way. We did it for Jake router, like in a different way. We did for Nikko Miritic the year before we have committed to figuring out ways to put the best team around Giannis

each and every season and I think that's our awesome obligation and responsibility to do so. Whether it's international whether it's college you know G League needs to be factored into all this stuff too because you have Giannis and you have him at this age and he's already so special

you know the evaluation is like I think this guy can play I don't think this guy can play because you have Giannis and you have him at this age and he's already so special, you know, the evaluation is like, I think this guy can play. I don't think this guy can play. What changes when you're thinking about, okay, well, I think this guy can play, but I definitely think he can play with what we want to do and how we plan to build around Giannis for multiple years forward. Like how does Giannis in his prime change the way you evaluate a future teammate? I think it's more specific. I think the answer is that's how it changes. I've been blessed that in my executive role, lead executive role, I've only had to figure that part out. I've had experiences in my long NBA career of the other. And I think when you don't have that core star, When you don't have that core star, you have a more open, general view of how you acquire talent, how you want to try to build because you're trying to find the next star.

And so there's less specificity to it. When you have someone like Giannis, he sets the tone culturally, sets the tone style of play. He sets the tone expectation-wise. He sets the tone expectation-wise. It becomes much more finite, much more specific as to what can work and who we want to acquire, which frankly makes the job easier in terms of the types of players that you want to try to get. Sometimes harder because you have a smaller pool and of course harder because of the expectations. But I think it just makes it much more specific. I want to ask you about the MVP without it being very obvious that you'd be talking about your guy

and then also not trying to define. It can be obvious. Right. When you're talking to one of your buddies, he just goes like, what is it about him? What is it about Giannis? So here you go.

The floor is yours, Gian. Take it away. Well, no, it's great. It depends on what you think the award is, right? Is it a league award? Is it a team award? I think luckily for us in Milwaukee, he's both. He's the MVP of the Milwaukee Bucks and I think he's the MVP of the league. with a lot of different lineups, a lot of key injuries to really core players. And that's squarely on his ability to help us get through that weather, those storms. I mean, he is one of four seasons in the history of the NBA to be a 20, 10, and 5 guy. I'm sorry, 30, 10, and 5 guy being with, I think, Kareem and Wilt and Giannis. So that's pretty rare.

You look at what he's doing from a scoring perspective, and he's doing it, I think, in the top 80 in minutes. So maybe he's like 75th, 76th in minutes. He's like fifth in our league in scoring. He's up there in rebounding. His 40-10 games, he leads the league in 40-10 games this year. And that's kind of the Bucs' perspective. From the league perspective, my view would be that they usually want to reward

the best player and the best team. Well, today, as we talk, we have the best league, best record in the entire league, and he's the best player on our team. And so I really, I just don't see how there's another guy that's no disrespect to anybody else. This guy, in my opinion, is the MVP of the league. And we can go on and on about the stats and the person and all that, but he's the best player on the best team and he's helped us get there so far with really a lot of adversity in our season. Does he know that you won back-to-back titles in college at Rochester? I don't think so. But you know what? If we're able to at some point grab another title,

maybe I'll tell him he's tied with me then. Because this probably comes up a little bit i mean look you're on the younger side um you know it's it's yannis now my guess is from his personality that he's wired a little differently because of his background being that much different but do you get to a point where it's not just executive player granted it can't ever be like it can't ever be strained because it's like whatever we can pay you, we'll pay you, man. Don't worry about it. So there's not that employer-employee type of thing. But what is that relationship like for you that's kind of grown up as an executive with him growing

up as a player and an international superstar? Yeah, it's special. Not something that we talk about a lot publicly, not something I'll talk a lot about today. But just it's really special. It's been an unbelievable blessing to kind of grow up as an executive as he's grown up as a player, like you said. And I think it gives both of us a unique perspective on the league, unique perspective on where we're at today. He is an incredibly grateful, humble individual that appreciates everything that he's accomplished and everything he's been allowed to be part of. I try really hard to be the same. And it's just fun to see

where we are now compared to where we were then and to really give a lot of credit to those that have helped us be there and the reasons why we're here. That's kind of fun to, in a very small way, mirror his path and his growth on the executive side and the way he has a player. We talk about it a lot. It's special. Internally, we talk about it a lot. It's special, but it's not something we talk a lot about publicly.

Okay. Could you do this then? That's cool. Is there a moment, whether it's as a person or a player, where he surprises you? Where you're like, man, because I think there's still stuff on the court every now and then i'll see with him and be like wait did he just do what i think he did and i always what i like the most about him is that his aggression i never have to worry about where he's at mentally i never have to worry about i think he wants to go at every single person i think he plays you know look

there's other guys that play without fear but to combine it all with his body and his ability and to have like he's wired the way you want your superstar to be wired. So I wonder if there's even moments where you're ever surprised by any of this because you've been around it since basically day one. I mean, no matter how much you are around him and you witness it and you see him work, you have expectations of maybe what you're going to see. He just continues to exceed it. I mean, he just continues to exceed my expectations. I think everyone around him as to what he can do on the floor. And it could be a dunk. It could be a play in a practice. It could be a play in a game.

It could be a leadership moment on the court with a player. He just continues to push that envelope. So yeah, I get surprised all the time on the floor, off the floor, kind of on a personal level, I would say more challenged, understanding the pressures he has, the commitments on his time, the demands on his time, and seeing the moments where he still focuses on family or focuses on a teammate or focuses on a staff member and is really gracious with his time and his energy and his insight and wisdom really at this point in his life, I often get challenged because we can all get stuck in, man, I'm too busy or I've got to do this or I'm tired of this. And when you see someone like him that has all the demands he has to still pull out time

to be the person he is genuinely and sincerely, I get challenged often by him in that way. Just, just kind of observing. Do you guys have a term for when you could tell he's mad and you're like, Oh, he's mad. That's a great question. I don't think so.

Um, you can locked in. I mean, I don't know about mad. You can just see him when he, I mean it in a good way, John. I mean it like,

I think there's this extra little level of when he's like all right enough of this and it's like it's usually bad news for everybody else i think the viral ones like when we start to mean mugging right like yeah the mean bug we'll go with that okay so i remember my first job on the air in boston this is going back a ways and it was 03 okay so i've been on a minor league baseball for a year and then i make it to boston and i was lucky enough to get to I'd been on a minor league baseball for a year and then I make it to Boston. And I was lucky enough to get to know some of the Boston front office people because we were the Celtics radio station. And I was just obsessed with this concept of like, what is it that you see that none

of us see? What is it that you see? Like I was convinced there was just this lens that they watched basketball through that mere mortals could never quite understand. And I'd ask about it and they were nice because I was annoying as hell. lens that they watched basketball through that mere mortals could never quite understand. And I'd ask about it and they were nice because I was annoying as hell. And they kind of like, I felt like they almost were keeping it a secret. And the secret is that there isn't some magic lens. It's just, you have to watch so much that either you do figure it out or you're incapable of figuring it out. When was that moment for you in that, okay, I love basketball. I'm

playing in college, which is, you know, eliminates most of us that ever played up growing it, grew up playing it. But what was that moment for you, John, where you were kind of like, all right, this is what I want to do. And by the way, am I actually good at it? I'm keeping an internal track record of who I think can play and who can't play. That's a great, I don't know the moment exactly. The education, I often say this, I've been blessed to have worked for Joe Dumars and then for John Hammond and work with guys like Jeff Weltman and David Morway and Justin Zanuck, who I think the world of in terms of evaluating

team building processes, and they all do it differently. And so I don't know about a specific moment. I do know that when I was awarded an opportunity to be a GM, I was very confident in my ability to pull from and utilize and replicate a lot of those processes and those things that I learned and studied and been part of for years to try to apply it in my own way with my own group and try to have success in evaluation and team building. And it's really hard. I mean, at the end of the day, we get a lot of it wrong. You try to get as much of it right as you can. There's not a perfect lens as an individual. There's not a perfect lens as an organization. It is the man hours, the people hours, the analysis, the analytics, the processes,

and pulling all that together to try to make the best bet you can. And I'm just grateful that I had a lot of experiences and exposure to that growing up in Pistons organization and the Vox organization from people who I really respect in those areas. And so I think we've done a good job so far. We've got a lot of ways in which we can get better, but yeah, I don't have a specific moment, but those would be the influences in that format. That was a good answer for what ended up probably being a bad question because I was hoping for this kind of like, you know, 90 minute mark in the movie. Maybe I could try it, try it this way. Cause I think the job I personally, and I don't even think it's biased. I don't really know what the other argument would be. It's harder than

being a GM in the NFL. It's harder than being a GM in baseball. Everyone has their challenges. But again, if you don't have one of the five guys, you're not going to win a title. You have one. And then you can have all these rules and you can have all these priorities building a roster, but then you're like,

okay, nobody's taking our cap space. So I've got to spend it on somebody that I don't really like. I know whenever I've asked other GMs being like, is there anything you prioritize less, more? Then it feels like you're giving away some secrets. But now that you've had the job for years and you have a title in the back pocket, how do you think you've evolved as an evaluator? Okay, yeah.

I mean, that's easy. So talent, you have to have talent. Without talent, it's not going to happen. I have moved as an evaluator. I've learned this from, but I've learned this from winning from being around our group, seeing it fail. Talent is not the number one thing. I think there's a baseline level of talent that everyone has to have fit. When you're talking about having one of those five guys and competing for the things that we're trying to compete for fit and fit is broad, right? It's, it's, it's a very vast definition and it's specific, specific to the player or the system, which you're trying to fit it into. But there's a lot of

different areas in which you have to fit the fit of a player, um, far exceeds the talent of a player in terms of importance and team building in my mind and my philosophy and kind of the way we've done it. And so that's absolutely like an evolution for me because early on, I would bet way more on talent and we can go figure out the fit and we can coach this and we can teach this. And that's really hard. I think you need to start the other way. And you have to have a baseline level of talent. You and I, it doesn't matter how good our fit is, we're not going to make it. But if you can meet that baseline level of talent, then I think fit becomes paramount. Yeah, I always feel like talent's like,

you have different talent rules when you're not any good. And then when you're good, you're like, okay, it's not just about talent because we're good to go whether you're here or not. We talked about the evolution here. A couple of things before we finish up. Brooke Lopez, I'm not going to ask you to give me a comp of somebody who found a way to then, I mean,

when you think about his previous contracts, at one point, it was like, wait, this guy's free. And then the Lakers don't keep him around. And then the first deal is that much. And now, you know, he's making the kind of money he should for the impact that he has on the game. But it's a rare case so i'm not putting you on the spot like what other player has changed his game this much to fit in but like what does it say about him for you to kind of go this dude that was an afterthought for all the teams in the league to be this important

to maybe the best team in the nba yeah i think if we start backwards a little bit he's going to be this important to maybe the best team in the NBA? Yeah, I think if we start backwards a little bit, he's going to be 35 in a couple of, you know, April 1st. So in a few days here, and he's having the best, arguably the best season of his career as a two-way player. I mean, I think since All-Star break, the guy's averaging 28 and three, you know, and I think he leads the league in blocked, uh, uh, total block shots leads the league by far and contested shots. Contest stuff doesn't even look real. Yeah. It's crazy. It's insane. Which by the way, is why our defense has been a top, you know,

three, four defense, the entire season, a lot of the seasons, something on the top one defenses. Um, he's in the top two or three and block shots per game. He's doing all this. So starting backwards from there, it's incredible what he's doing now. And I think he's evolved within our system and within our style, you know, in the five or I think five or six seasons he's been with us so far. He had started doing that prior to, you know, if you really look at Brooks evolution, it's kind of started his last year in Brooklyn, Jersey, his year in the Lakers, and then his year with us. And his evolution has been this kind of dominant interior defender that has a major impact on rebounding and that can stretch the floor. You know, and that evolved from a guy who could score his tail off, right, in all his years in Jersey.

And I think it's nothing more than a credit to him as an athlete. I think you can sometimes miss what a great athlete he is because of his size. But the guy is massive in his ability to move in his hand-eye coordination and catch and finish and strength and mobility. It's really off the charts. His intellect, you know, his IQ, it's what's allowed him to figure out the trends of the NBA and to continue to go on and get better in certain areas. And then he is an unbelievable competitor. I think you look at his ability to come back from an injury and really having a great healthy year at this age. And I think he'll have other great healthy years going forward. He cares so much. He's very, very, very committed to the

team. He's very committed to his craft. And he has been his entire career. I mean, he battled injuries early in his career, got through it in a huge way, battled an injury last year, has gotten through it in a huge way. So just the competitive nature. So to kind of really sum it up,

I mean, you talk about his athleticism, his character and IQ, and really his competitiveness. And that's how you get a guy doing the things that he's doing. And I have to say it like he is clearly defensive player of the year in my mind. I mean, what this guy does, how he impacts our defense, if you need no other staff and what we were defensively last year without him and what we are defensively every other year with him, that tells the entire story.

I mean, his impact on our defense is massive. I was going to vote for Drew possibly. You may have changed my mind now, though. So I don't want to take away and vote for him publicly. Okay, I have two things before we finish. I believe a lot of criticism of coaching is completely unfair. I don't know that it's all that educated. I am not pretending that I know everything. I'm just reluctant that it's all that educated. I am not pretending that I know

everything. I'm just reluctant to be as critical of coaches. That's why everybody gets so worked up about timeouts because it's super easy to tell when a guy doesn't call one or does. And then when they don't and something doesn't work out, you feel better about being like, well, I should have called the timeout. So when I think about Brooks coverage in certain matchups, like I go back to that Pelicans game this year where Valanciunas went insane, but Bud was like, we don't want you to move. Don't worry. Don't contest the Valanciunas stuff. Brooke looks to Bud and is like, do you seriously want me to keep

letting him shoot these shots? And Bud's like, yes, because it was about cutting off Zion. I even remember the Atlanta series a couple years ago when you won the whole thing. I thought there were moments in the drop covers for Brooke on the drives where it was like, wait, is he going to be able to play in some of these closing minutes?

And I think there's a lot of times too with a big and a certain playoff game where it looks like, oh my God, it's game three. Never try that again. And then game four, it works. It's sports the way it kind of works. The reason I point all this out is that is it actually better to have a coach that you actually know what he wants to do all the time? Instead of a coach, you'd be like, the minute something doesn't

work, like the fans, they all want everybody to abandon it, which is not the way to do the job. So some could call it stubborn. I think in a way, it's predictable. And it actually may be easier for the front office to do the job with a coach that isn't going to change every single thing he wants to do just based on the result. but please do be like in any walk of life. I don't know how you have ultimate success. If you're constantly changing, you have to have conviction. You have to have habit to be successful.

You also have to have flexibility. And so there's a balance. I mean, now you can't be all of one and none of the other. You can't be changing all the time and you can't never change. And, and I think that's where Bud's great. I mean, he's,

he's been the coach of the year. He's won a championship now. He's on the verge, I think, of having three or four seasons with the Milwaukee Bucks where we have the best regular season record. He did that with Atlanta.

He's an incredible coach and I think he's very convicted. He absolutely has habits and he presses into our guys to get better every single day and to create great habits, to believe in what we're doing. You have to have a core foundation of what you are, but then you have to be able to adjust. You have to be willing to do it and you have to be talented enough to do it. And that's not just him. It's his staff and it's everyone else. And it's being communicated with and communicated to.

and it's being communicated with and communicated to. And I think he's shown all of those things. I don't even know if it exists, but I would far prefer that over a coach who constantly is adjusting and changing because of fit. When you're trying to win at the highest level, which we are trying to do, I mean, our goal is to be in a position year in and year out to compete for championships.

I think you have to know who your core superstar is and what fits him. And we've talked a ton about that. You have to know what the system is and what your coach wants to run and the types of players that fit in that system as well. And Bud clearly has that established. And so I think those things are probably the two biggest contributors to our success so far is to have those foundational pillars of which we can build from. Right. And that's why I think when it doesn't work and then it's like, um, is to have those, those foundation foundational pillars of which we can build from. Right. And that's why I think when it doesn't work and then it's like, Oh, he's

stubborn. And look, I don't have to remind you like down to Phoenix, the net series. It's like, Oh, here we go again. And it's just funny how it's like, actually he didn't, he didn't really, you know, cause there's an adjustment here. There's adjustment there, but philosophically, it's not like the guy was all of a sudden coaching a completely different way. And then everybody that was upset, like you don't hear from him anymore, which is why I'm just generally reluctant to be like, hey, this coach doesn't know what he's doing when I don't even know what all the terminology is as much as I watch the games. All right, last thing here. I think I already know the answer to it a little bit, but you go through the uncertainty with Middleton,

you know, back and forth. I think physically he looks better the last couple weeks than he's looked all season. I don't really care about the numbers. I just think from a movement standpoint, you may think I'm wrong. You're probably not going to tell me either way. But the depth is there. I love Ingles' game. Jay coming along. And now you're one.

And Boston's had this rough stretch. So I guess it's kind of like, was there, I doubt there was any wavering, John. I just can't imagine. Like, it feels like you're feeling the best probably about your team at the best possible time as this regular season closes out. Yeah, I think that's fair. And I agree with you, by the way, on Chris.

I do think his numbers support it, and our team numbers, more importantly, support it. But I think he looks great physically. I think he's really coming into his own, getting his legs under him, which is massive for us. I mean, Chris is an incredible player, and we need Chris to do what we want to do. Feel great about our team now. Very happy with where we're at, where we've come from.

Definitely no wavering throughout the season. I think we believed in not only who we were, but what we would figure out to become. And we always figure out a way to make a move that I think gives us a chance to be better. And we did that as well this year. But I think it's balanced by experience. This team has been there. We understand how important it is to be a top seed. We understand that we can win out of a second hole or a third hole if we have to.

It doesn't really matter. What matters is we get better every day, that we have great habits, and that we're healthy. And if we're healthy enough and we're good enough and we get a little bit of luck, we'll have a chance to do something again this year. But there are so many good teams in our conference, so many good teams in this league. It's a long road ahead of us. But in terms of how we've handled the journey so far, very happy with it. But I don't think anyone is overly confident or relying on that. I think we all understand that we still have a lot of work to do, a lot of habits to create,

and a lot of things need to break our way to really be where we want to be at the end. I can't wait for the playoffs and specifically to see how this all shakes out, whoever's playing in the Easter conference finals. So I know you're busy, man. This means a lot to us. So thanks for taking the time. Yeah, this was fun.

Thanks, Ryan. I appreciate it. We want to do something for the Sweet 16 because we really haven't done anything. And this isn't going to, if you're a huge college basketball enthusiast, this might not really quench your thirst. We teased it this week.

We used to do this. It was kind of the worst dude Wednesday or worst dude ever. Sometimes we didn't do it on Wednesday. I think Van Pelt and I even did something like this years and years ago. We want to come up with a Sweet 16 of the worst dude Wednesday or worst dude ever. Sometimes we even do it on Wednesday. I think Van Pelt and I even did something like this years and years ago. We want to come up with a sweet 16 of the worst guys. Cliche guys. We have regions.

So we're going to pick the regions. We'll run through what they are in the seedings. And then we will discuss at length. All right. Everybody ready? Love it. Yeah, let's do it. A lot of pressure.

All right. Okay. In the can't believe we are still friends with this guy region, the one seed lies about stuff no one that age lies about anymore guy. We'll get back to these when we pick the region. The two seed is still defends Kyrie Irving guy. Some thought that was underseeded. Three seed.

Loves to tell you bad news. The fourth seed doesn't want you to ask out girl that he won't ask out guy. Dibs guy. Alright. In the watch the big short economic expert region. The number one seed is this might win the whole thing

wants you to lose bets and stocks but also never bets or invests yeah the two seed is doesn't have money for anything we're not calling out people with low salaries we're calling out the guy who fucking goes to chipotle with you and doesn't even have a 10 on him all the time the guy still shows up yeah right in your 20s you get sick of it in your 40s you actually are like here's the 10 bucks like get two want to bring anything home um number three although i could be accused this but i don't think this is what it is. It's the ultimate zag guy. And we have an ultimate zag guy, anti brands.

You know, he's the one guy that still has the phone. Nobody else has, uh, roots for other countries in the Olympics. Big Italy guy. No, not even like way off the grid. Like you don't like iceland i actually like iceland i was i think i was they had a nice soccer run didn't they sruti i was into that

iceland yeah they got the double claps it's hard to tell the head everybody copied it yeah that's true it's true a lot of good looking large blonde dudes yeah i was like wait what is that yawns like no it's yawns i was like oh okay your people all right friends up there yeah no these are all positive things they just you know it's just very symmetric uh all right number four seed realtor that always says it's the right time to buy that was that was one of the last four in. This seems very personal. I just want to meet a realtor.

I want to meet a realtor once that says, yeah, I would hold off. I would hold off. I don't think. It's not. Give it a year. Okay. This is the I have a switch region. If you need further definition of that, it's the guy that would would never win a fight maybe has never been in one and then goes but dude i have a switch like if it goes so these are these are more so uh the one

seat is the selfish gym guy some people are picking that to win the whole thing uh kyle's submission which i can't wait to follow up with him specifically, is drunk too quick guy. Just sounds good, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. When you sent that, I was like, that's in. That's in. Okay. Three seed here is if it wasn't for an injury, dot, dot, dot guy.

Man. You run into a lot of those guys that pick up hoops. I've met plenty of bouncers that were enormous. Play football. Dude, Tennessee was actually interested. You know, knee knee thing and then i'll be like what blown acl like it's never specific all right four seed is uh tells you what they would have done in the same situation i think that's underseated yeah i do think that's underseated because that guy would be like well here's what i would have done and it's like oh you mean the fucking tell me more guy what stallone did in cliff's what I would have done. And it's like, oh, you mean the fucking... Tell me more, guy. What Stallone did in Cliffhanger.

I would have simply grabbed the gun. Right. Yeah. Like, why didn't you just rappel down? You've never rappelled? Dude, I could put a rappel system together in five minutes. Duct tape and some bed sheets. Okay.

Last region is pays for blue Twitter with 26 followers region. All right. Some people. The one seed is believes everything repeat stuff he saw online and presents it as his own guy. The two seed here is has to have the last word story topper guy. I think me and every one of my friends were definitely that during our 20s. Yeah. Where when the UVM crew would show up to like other hybrid crews they'd be like oh the vermont guys are here i'm just gonna out story everybody this would be funny and then we would tell the guy and be like

man your friends from home are quiet and he's like no they hate you guys i'm like oh there's no oxygen yeah like oh what are you telling another story again you get super intense about it then that guy says what then, what, then this happened. Yeah, no, that's cool. We'll be over here. Uh,

three seed is, I hope she sees this tweet guy, most underrated seating in the entire bracket. Oh man. You think so? You think I've got too low on this? Yeah. Yep.

All right. Again, we can't discuss it. And the final submission of the sweet 16 of the worst guys is the four seed argues with celebrities online guy. Okay. Kyle, any thoughts? Any regions you want to focus in on here? You know, I think I'll just have thoughts when we get to the matchups.

I'll save it for then. There's some really good ones on here. And there's some people that are my friends and dare I even say my family in here. So I'm just going to tread lightly, but got to be honest. Hey, look, I've got shades of a couple of these in me. So I mean, to be totally fair. Yeah, some of these. Okay.

I can't believe we were still. Yeah, right. I mean, I don't look, you know, I think we I think I think we tell the good parts and we tell the bad parts on this show. So that's... Shades of story type. Yeah, right, right.

Kevin O'Connor draft guide. You think this segment's good. I did a segment with Van Pelt six years ago. Anyway, so, all right. So let's look at the can't believe we're still friends with this guy region. Lying at a certain age it's like wait like when you discover somebody in their 30s or 40s still makes up shit you're like wait what like you know sometimes kids are teenagers and they they got to get it out of their system then you go to college you're like what the fuck you're like now that guy lies all the time and then like if you're still

doing that kind of stuff i'd be shocked that you have that, nah, that guy lies all the time. And then, like, if you're still doing that kind of stuff, I'd be shocked that you have that many friends. So that's, that's a pretty heavy favorite for this region. Absolutely. I'm part of any group. It's like,

it's, you can't have like, it's like a, if you're like 20% of a five person group, right? That's how that math works down or 25,

whatever that is. Like, you can't have the guy that's constantly like, yeah, that guy's just a wild card because we don't know if he's ever telling the truth. That guy is getting pushed out by the day. I think they're just waiting for the guy that's constantly like yeah that guy's just a wild card because we don't know if he's ever telling the truth that guy is getting pushed

out by the day I think they're just waiting for the big one to be like dude we can't do this anymore so yeah I think that's pretty high I would say it's they're usually harmless stories though so while it is super annoying like usually that guy lies around the edges so it's like you know high school football stats it's

as we talked about before like his you know whether or not he could have gone pro or not, how good he is at FIFA. Usually, at least the guys that I've come across, it's kind of harmless stuff and it's annoying. You don't like to talk to that guy, but it doesn't piss me off enough. I don't know. I'm not as fired up about this one, I guess, as you guys are.

Yeah. Well, look, I think there's two things there. If it's the stuff on the edges that actually doesn't mean anything, nobody's really being harmed. But then i think there's guys that just straight up like are selling a version of themselves where you know that could lead to bigger problems um yeah okay problem with super bowl tickets this last year about yeah i can't get out of hand you know yeah that might be the winner in this one um so do you add some thoughts on kind of the the guy that just wants to box you out underneath the glass as as women come off the backboard but

can never get the rebound um i have some thoughts about this you don't oh that was a pretty extensive exhale so i thought you were about to go no all right that's fine um we don't love to tell you bad news guy the love to like you ever get a text like hey here who died and be like i'm about to find out aren't i and you don't actually talk to that person that much like some people love being like oh somebody died all right who do i call how many people can i call right now and unless like the person needs to be called, I don't know that there's an urgency. This is not free agency signing where it's like breaking news. But some people love to do that.

I think the lies about stuff, although I'll tell you if I had a friend that was still going like, you guys don't get Kyrie, I would be an ex friend. Okay. I just lost the last guy who, when he left the Nets, he,

when he was on the Nets, he was like a big Nets fan, even from back when they were in New Jersey. He was like making every excuse out of the silence to media. And then he was like, I fucking hate that guy. So I was wondering if I was going to lose that guy. But he's on board now. So he's back to normal.

Yeah. I mean, anybody, as soon as he leaves, then it's like, oh, you know what? Yeah, it wasn't the media's fault. Or it was before when he was on my team. Okay. The watch the big short economic expert region. Again, we've got wants you to lose bets who never bets. what yeah it wasn't the media's fault or it was before when he was on my team okay uh the watch the big short economic expert region again we've got wants you to lose bets who never bets also stocks available in this uh doesn't have money for anything ultimate zag guy anti-brands uh for

realtor that always says it's the right time to buy i think the four seed there they were just happy to even be to the tournament but there's no way they're coming out of this region it might be the one seat again i don't want to go all chalk, but I have it's just so annoying when it's like, oh, hey, did you invest in that company? Yep. Did you see the stock? Yeah, I did. I see it every fucking day. Tried

to tell you. No, you didn't. You didn't do shit. You didn't say anything. You didn't know anything about it. And you don't even, what did you do? What was your call? What's your money maker? Oh, well, you know, I don't like to, I don't you know, I don't, I don't even, what did you do? What was your call? What's your money maker? Oh, well, you know, I don't like to, I don't, you know, I don't, I don't play that game. Like, okay, have less interest in mine.

Does it sound personal? Yes. It does. It does. A lot of this stuff. Yeah, I don't, not a lot of dudes in my groups are on that level with stocks and stuff. I do have one super annoying crypto guy, so I throw him in there. That was, that was really tough to hear and watch. Do you do you say that to him like when crypto has its fluxes do you go no he did this guy he did he was on like the dogecoin wave he was on the dogecoin wave so

he was like he was showing us like screenshots all the time and then it just got real quiet so we just let him we just let him because it was like, man, I know that guy probably lost 30 grand, but yeah, that's I, I put that in that's in that, that category as well. So yeah,

I can agree with you there. I don't know. I think we're, are we, I think we're selling ultimate sad guy a little bit short here. He's my winner out of this bracket. Like that guy who's like, you know,

Oh, you have an iPhone. Like I would never own an iPhone. Galaxy, I have an iPhone Galaxy all the way. Yeah, exactly. this bracket. Like that guy who's like, you know, oh, you have an iPhone? Like I would never own an iPhone. Galaxy, I have some Galaxy all the way. Yeah, exactly. You know, like that guy, he just, he's a downer in every scenario. So you're telling me like, which one of these people would I at least want to hang out with? It would absolutely be that guy.

He's just, he sucks in every walk of life. Like the guy that roots against you and your bets. Like, I don't know. Like I have, me and my buddies, we do this thing where we all like do a parlay every weekend on either soccer or the NFL. We pool money together money together and you know it's a bigger payout or whatever and secretly guys behind the scenes are rooting against each other we don't know we like we don't want everyone to win because you don't want to be the one guy that's out so like I I don't really have a huge issue with that doesn't have money for anything guy you're right that's kind of like a

little bit younger I think the the zag guy who just hates all the mainstream stuff hates all the cool movies doesn't like any music anymore like that guy you cannot have any fun with that guy going out yeah i didn't realize that guy was in this uh in this region and i think you're right yeah because he he's checking a lot of boxes for me i mean the apple thing's a perfect example like oh macbook like yeah it's like being a slave yeah right like no i get it you sign up for itunes and i'm probably not gonna want to switch anything over but i'm pretty good right now you know like no viruses yeah what do you want me to do you get your money yeah yeah you get yeah you get your music from there dude you know it's like dwight shrewd with the russian downloads yeah it's always using some program that

you don't even know either it's like cool man. I don't know. Five people use this. What do you want me to do? Yeah, right. You're like, hey, can you save a podcast with me? Yeah, okay. Cool. No problem. Are you used to Dutch? Can you download Dutch House? What? What? Like, yeah, the first 30 days. And again, you know, under budget podcast and not dumping on your tech

you just get to you know it would be more of an argument no way no dude the buffering of this way better you're like yeah but okay all right so ultimate zag guy maybe a sneaky three seed that gets out of there i think then doesn't have money for anything after a certain age you just feel so bad yeah you nailed that. You all band together around him. Yeah. And by the way, Saruti, you saying like you root against the other guy's bets. You're all betting.

You're in a parlay contest. You should be rooting against each other. I'm talking about me, Thanksgiving, 25 years old, Vermont. And I've got 50 bucks in the lions on Thanksgiving Day. And I'm at my girlfriend's family's house. And the brother-in-law is like, do you bet? And I was like, yep. Who'd you take?

Oh, again, I think I took the Lions. So we know how that's going to go. And he started rooting for the other team. Yep. Well, that gets into like that tells you what you would do in that situation. Like, wow, man, I would have backed the Bears there. Just saying.

Yeah. Yeah. Right, because he didn't have a thing to say, and as my bet's falling apart, he's like, meh, saw this coming. I'm like, do you know you didn't? You don't even like it. If you did, you would have money on the game. Locked in sports guy.

Right, right, right. I'm like, oh, I could have told you not to bet the Lions. Did you? All right. I have a switch, fighter, region, non-fighter, one selfish gym guy. I think it's pretty self-explanatory there, where if everybody operated the way you did, gyms would look like flea markets. Let's explain drunk too quick guy, Kyle.

This was one of your submissions. They won their conference, so they were an auto bid anyway uh you know i see it a lot in girls but there's definitely a lot in in in dudes as well i saw it more in college but i could p i could spot it out now especially at a bar i mean remember i said like that one guy who you know didn't drink in college or didn't drink in high school and then he's in college and his face is red all the time and he's always fucking like you know he's always he's hanging out with some drinker crews he's always trying to keep up he's not saying anything to anybody but god damn it that guy is fucking hammered you don't know where he is you find him in a snowbank that's like the college version of

that guy but like you know it in in bars or parties like that guy's like that guy's loud he's probably he's like and everyone else is at this normal part of the event or whatever you're doing. But he's like, he's like in your face. He's loud. He's, he's like, he's just looks different than everybody else. And he's, he's, he's like kind of messing up the vibe. And a lot of times the two drunk guy does it every time, no matter where you're at. It's like, oh, we're going to the, the, you know, the Dodgers game. And it's like, oh shit, I really hope we're not against any, we're not near dodgers fans because this guy's gonna do some fucking shit because he always does and he gets drunk after two tall boys or something just the just the the drunk too quick guy and usually that guy never learns so he's usually constantly getting drunk too quick like i said see it a lot in girls but this is a dude's draft so yeah yeah not sure it's gonna make it out although the four seed in this tells you what they would have done in the same situation. No one likes that. And everybody does it.

A lot of people do it. Yeah. Okay. All right. Last one. Last region. Pacer Blue Twitter. 26 followers.

Believes everything. Repeats stuff they saw online as their own. Story topper. Center of attention has to be three seed. I hope she sees this tweet guy. Four seed argues celebrities online guy. Four-seed argues a celebrity's online guy. Saruti, why don't you give us a little more depth on the three-seed here?

No, I mean, I think I suggested this one to the group because it's always the... I got to tiptoe around this one, too, because you got to be careful here. But the guy that always sides with the girl because it's like, dude, she's not going to sleep with with you man like i'm sorry like could you just stop being such a simp like that's what this guy is like he constantly tries to suck up to

whatever it's like what it's famous women or if you're at the bar he always sides with women over the boys like it's just like what are we doing here and that guy he has a clear agenda he knows what he wants to do everybody knows what he's trying to do but it's not going to work most most likely and then you're alienating all your other dude friends. So this guy to me, I mean, man, I think he's understated as a greasy. Yeah. See, I thought it was different. I thought it was like when I tweet something nice to Sarah Walsh, it's 17 guys thinking

they're the most original person ever saying, I hope she sees this. And it's like, yeah, she is going to see it because we're friends. And I'm thinking from the reverse angle, like the guy who's doing it on purpose so that he hopes she does see it. That guy. Okay. So we're playing. Maybe it's a playing game. Maybe it's a playing game between the two.

Here's the point. I thought it was different too. I've got a couple dudes that tweet when they get into arguments with their girlfriend, but he's subtweeting his own girlfriend. It's like, wow, we're all seeing this, man. What's going on here? Or the guy who makes statements about his lifestyle, hoping that girls are going to see it. That's what I thought. I hope she sees that tweet. So I guess this could be it all,

right? I mean, this one's a pretty strong seed then. There was an all-timer that I saw, and I'm just going to share it because a friend of ours retweeted it, who could get away with retweeting it. But it was some famous dude that was like, don't ask for nudes during the pandemic, guys. Seriously. You were just like, why would you, why did you tweet that?

I love it. I love it. As if it was, you know, as if somebody's like, finally someone said it. But out of control. The one scene's not getting a ton of attention here, and maybe that's the whole point.

All right. I think... Oh, man. I don't know. Who do you got winning the whole thing? Well, do we want to go bracket by bracket and then get a final four here? Yeah.

Yeah, that's fine. Super organized. So let's just vote then. So from the first region, I think I still have still defense Kyrie guy. Okay. Kyle?

I don't think that's it for me, but I forget what was in the first region. Lies about stuff that no one lies about anymore at a certain age. Still defense Kyrie. Loves to tell you bad news.

Doesn't want you to ask out girl. He won't ask out guy. Yeah, I think dibs guy's girl. He won't ask out guy. Yeah, I think dibs guy's mine. Dibs guy? Okay. I'm going to go one seed. So that means I get the first tiebreaker.

The one seed lies about stuff that... All right, so I don't have a tiebreaker anymore. All right, I'll just go in order. Watch the big short region. Wants you to lose bet stocks. Doesn't have money for anything. Ultimate zag guy for realtor that says it's always the right time to buy. Zag guy. Yeah.

Chalk. Zag guy? Alright, Zag guy. Moves on. I have a switch region, selfish gym guy, drunk too quick guy. If it wasn't for an injury guy, number four seed is what they would have done in the same situation. I don't know what they would have done. I think some of those other are more harmless and annoying,

but that one is just fucking super irritating. Yeah, Kyle's play for the drunk too quick guy, he definitely sold me, but it's the four seed. It tells you what they would have done in that situation. That's the worst guy. Four seed coming up. I'd go chalk, but I lose that one. That's fine.

Pays for blue Twitter 26 followers region. Finally, again, we just covered this repeat stuff you saw saw online I think there's a lot of people out there they're like well you know the thing about silicon valley bank is like what the fuck are you talking about you're a banking expert right now daily he's got thoughts listen to 20 minutes of the all-in pod you're telling me about treasury bonds um story topper I hope she sees this which again we had three different definitions so i don't know there might just be confusion of what kind of system they're running there um and then for our use of celebrities online yeah there's a lot of twitter ones here and a lot of internet ones here so i would just go for the one that affects me in person yeah you're

right i i think i'd go for the story topper just because it affects me in person. Some of these guys, like the Twitter blue guy, wouldn't even be friends with that guy. I don't think I am friends with any of those guys. If I am, sorry that I haven't seen your tweets in a while.

But yeah, so I think the one that ruins in-person story time is the one I would choose. I would want to go with I hope she sees this, but it's like too broad with all three of us having different

definitions. I'll agree with Kyle. It's the story topper guy. Yeah, we might have that up. I think that might have been. I already started it actually. Story time hanging a banner atop all the other banners for your final four. All right, let's get to life advice. You want details?

Fine. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible.

Let me tell you what's required. The email address for Life Advice, lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Okay, this one is for Kyle, and it is specific, and it is rare, so we're going to do it. The title of this one is

The Foil Yips. The question is for Kyle. I'm a big fan of the show, so this one might be a bit of a deep cut for new listeners, but something Kyle said a couple months ago

back has progressively and unintentionally ruined my mornings. I am now the Chuck Knobloch of wrapping a sandwich. On some random episode, Ryan asked Kyle to say something about himself that he was great at. We need to keep doing that. To my surprise, by the way, I'm catching everything. What does that mean? I'm catching everything. If the keys drop off a thing, i'm no look back handing it i had a bolt that i was tying in off the other side and i then i undid it to check the washer and then the bolt fell behind and i couldn't even see it i caught it i'm on a two-month stretch of fucking catching everything and that means only stuff like you know in my hands not a cold or virus all right uh so um to my surprise and

amusement kyle said he was really good at knowing exactly how much foil is needed every time he rips a piece off i remember thinking wow i literally have never thought about that and i quickly moved on flash forward to a couple weeks ago my office moved to a different part of manhattan how is this related well you see ryan I'm a big sandwich guy. Nothing breaks the monotony of a workday like a good sandwich. I agree. In the Manhattan neighborhood I used to work in, the sandwiches are reasonably priced, high single digits. But now the new neighborhood, we're talking about quality sandwiches being sold at lunchtime for upwards of $18 to $20. Sandwich inflation is real. That's going to happen. Naturally, that's a little too rich for my blood. so I started making my own sandwiches at home. For whatever

reason, the first time I was making a sandwich in the new routine, Kyle's foil rant got in my head. I am now unable to tear off a reasonable piece of foil for my sandwiches in the morning. It is either way too big, which makes things awkward. It makes me look like an ass at work. Maybe.

I'm in a pretty judgmental workplace. You're like, fuck fuck you see see dave sandwich wrap fucking sending that to the moon um or way too small which of course means i need to start over oh that's infuriating too small is infuriating too small right because then there's dressing sort of everywhere you're like do i throw out? No, because you can't leave it too small. You just have to waste a whole piece. Yeah. Smudges the hardcover of your new Rick Rubin book.

I know I'm in my head about this, so I really need Kyle's advice. Is all his talent God-given, or is there a method to the madness? Is there a brand of foil he prefers? How can I slow the process down and be a serviceable sandwich packer again? I'm also going to be first time dad. I don't want to be Shaq at the freezer line picking up my kids' lunches.

Oh, packing up my kids' lunches. Yeah, so he's got, he's not even just worried about his own foil. Yeah, you're wrapping for two. Yeah, you're wrapping for two. You don't want your kid getting bullied over a sandwich wrapper too. Like, how come you didn't invite,

how come you didn't invite Todd over? You todd over you see his sandwiches mom he looks like a fucking idiot i would say to this dude i felt like the cool kids always bought school lunch but maybe that was just my school so i don't want to say that's for all schools what do you got kyle uh you know what it might be god-given i gotta be honest because i was gonna say i'm a reynolds rap i'm a reynolds rap guy but in college we were buying off-brand uh from the potstam iga and that stuff was totally different feel to it still on the money every time, really. So it's been like this forever. I'd say, you know, here's something, right?

When I first got this job at The Ringer, and I was a PA at the Any Given Wednesday show, and I started working in audio at The Ringer. There's a lot of dudes who went to school for audio engineering and stuff. So naturally, they're pretty good at wrapping up chords. The first couple of times I was wrapping up chords, dudes were like, what the fuck are you doing? That's not how you wrap up a chord. That's insane. You know, and so I basically want to, you know, I would just sit in a room, you know, sort of like getting my shots up. I just unwrap a chord, wrap it up. And you find there's actually a way the chord wants to wrap itself. I'd say just get yourself a practice foil

and just maybe, maybe even different breads and just spend a little time. I spent the time. Now I wrap the cord. I see what they mean. The cord wraps itself. It's I'm actually pretty fucking good at wrapping cords. I can wrap them big. I can wrap them small if it needs to be really tight. So I'd say maybe you just get just a practice foil and just spend the time, man. Put in a podcast. Maybe listen to the next life advice when it comes out. You don't need to do it forever, but I just think you figure out the nice arm length that you want to pull it out. Because that's the other thing with wrapping cords. You got to figure out the right exact amount to pull out before you wrap it. And so

I think you really should just practice it. And so I think, I think you really should just practice it. And I think you'll know whether you're able to do this or not. And, and, uh, I, for me, I can't tell you if this is a God-given talent or not. It does feel like it for how good it is. I mean, between wrapping sandwiches, any type of baking dish, a grill, you know, just tell me a grill. I don't even have to see the grill. Sometimes I'll be like, I bet this is enough and guess what it is. So,'t even have to see the grill sometimes. I'll be like, I bet this is enough. And guess what it is. So I just say practice it. This feels a lot like construction rules where you're measuring twice and cutting once here.

So, you know, I don't know if maybe you can get just a test foil, maybe a lesser brand if you don't want to drop what it costs a Reynolds wrap, which really feels like it is the standard. Although anti-brand guys like, dude, you guys use Reynolds Wrap? Never heard of Todd's Foil? You're like, nope, haven't. Nothing wrong with Kroger, guys. Yeah, yeah, right. So maybe Reynolds Wrap. I don't know.

Maybe I'm just a fucking brand sucker. But I would say, why don't you just get a test roll? And you're like, I got one thing to do this afternoon, and that is learning how to do this. Okay? and you're like, I got one thing to do this afternoon and that is learning how to do this. Okay. But I think it's a lot like folding a letter where what you'd want to do is get the sandwich position where the fold up on the tear side

is to the middle of the sandwich. And then you should be able to figure out the math from that point on. And you probably could even wrap it while it's not even torn off to get kind of a basic idea of like, hey, if I'm around the sandwich, we're talking loaf.

I got to get midpoint here. I got to flip it over. This gives me enough midpoint overlap where it doesn't feel too excessive. And then it's the under and the tuck. If I'm going sub, all right, I don't need to go as deep, but I got to make sure the width is right. Maybe do I work it at some kind of angle? I think all of this is very solvable. The biggest thing would be just fucking pay attention to the time you did it right and look how much came out. And then I got to be, yeah, I got to be in this range right now. I mean, I don't know how you could keep fucking it up all the time, but I would maybe get a test roll and just burn the five bucks going. I'm never going to be wrong at this again. I think it's a God given thing. Like Kyle said, going to be wrong at this again.

I think it's a God-given thing, like Kyle said, though. Ooh, wow. Jason Kidd then. Born a passer? Well, no. So I am a very good folder of clothes. I'm very particular about it, especially with t-shirts. I have a very specific technique of like tucking fingers in, and so there are no wrinkles, so I don't look like a slob when I wear this thing, so I don't

have to use an iron. Back in the day, I used to iron my t-shirts because I was so weird about wrinkles in my t-shirts. I'm a weird guy. Sorry. That's weird. But I've tried to teach my wife this. because i was so weird about like wrinkles in my t-shirts i'm a weird guy sorry that's weird um but i'm trying to teach i'm trying to teach my wife this i'm admitting it's weird maybe i should be on the list on the bracket but do that did you walk past tournaments did you walk past abercrombie being like my god no i never worked retail actually no that's not true i did work at sports authority uh but i wasn't pulling clothes i was selling hoops and trying to sell them like the protection plan, which nobody ever bought because I would never try to sell it because you should buy it. Stupid. It's a scam. But no, I'm very, and I've tried to teach my wife how to fold for years. Like we've

been married for, I don't know, five, six years. We've been together for almost a decade. She just can't do it. She can't do it. And it's one of those things like, I just don't think she has it in her. And maybe this guy just doesn't have the foil thing in him. I will say, say you know like when you go to chipotle and they have like the pre-cut ones that they just pull out and they bang and it's like they don't have to worry about cutting it maybe instead of you know wasting a roll just trying to figure it out maybe just get a ruler out and just cut a bunch of them and have like a whole stack and then you have to worry about it day to day and you have the exact length in a drawer what are you a hundred i'm just such an old person this is my foil drawer you're gonna

practice you're gonna say oh you waste the whole roll practicing if you're gonna practice you might as well just cut it and do it with a ruler you're not you're not wasting foil uh you get the right size i don't know man this seems like a better thing than practicing what if he's using hoagies what if he's using like hoagies and he's got like you know he's got just one what if it's a rag yet yeah yeah what if he's what if it's different i'm gonna go i'm gonna go on a limb and say he's got like, you know, he's got just one big kind of baguette. Yeah. What if it's different? I'm going to go on a limb and say he's making the same sandwich every day. I think the sandwich he makes for his kid is going to be a different size

than the man-sized sandwich he makes. Look, Suri, I'm just telling you, having a foil drawer of fruit pie foil is way weirder than just burning a roll trying to get this right one day. You guys are advocating for practicing ripping foil. It bothers him.

I want him to get good at it. You're sitting're sitting here telling i'm insane that's insane no man he wrote an email yeah the guy we disagree violently about this if i went to your house and be like hey are your spoons in here and you're like no that's my pre-cut God, I really thought we'd be on the same page here, fellas Okay, look I mean, no, I'm not saying it's inefficient I'm not even saying that, like, cost perspective I just think it's fucking weird Okay, fair, you know what?

Okay, uh Yeah, no More people might, we might get follow-ups Being like, had a foil drawer since 88. It's been fucking incredible. Makes my day much easier. Yeah. All right.

Yeah. God, you guys can't believe you said that to Cerruti. There's a convention in Daytona. All right. This one's fake. I'm reading it anyway. There's no way this is real, but I'm reading it.

I'll act like it's real then with you. There's no way this happened real, but I'm reading it. I'll act like it's real then with you. There's no way this happened, but we'll see. I guess there's a way it could have happened, which is why I'm reading it. 33-year-old, 6'1", 190, pickup game, combination of Zubats-like handles,

jump shot similar to Eric Gordon, but with less confidence in my shooting ability than Ben Simmons. That is a hybrid right there. A few weeks ago, my wife and I were hosting her family for dinner. Her mom, dad, brother, and his two children were all carpooling together to our house. So that's your wife's parents, your wife's brother,

and his two kids. It's five people. Carpooling together to our house. Usually, her parents or brother host, but we decided that it should be our turn this time. We told them to come at 6.30 and that dinner would be served around 7. We were serving a lot of food

and making it all ourselves. We were very busy in the kitchen all afternoon prepping for the meal. My wife texted them in the morning asking to let us know when they were on the way, but no response. Then at 5.30, all of a sudden, we hear the doorbell. After not responding the whole day or telling us they were coming early,

they just show up as we were still in the middle of prepping everything. My wife was annoyed and I was extremely upset, especially because it was our first time hosting and I wanted the food to be perfect. After consulting with my wife, we decided I would answer the door and refuse to let them in. I said, quote, I'm sorry, but I can't let you guys in yet. We're not quite ready yet. We invited you for 630. And frankly, we don't want any distractions as we finish preparing dinner. That's weird. I hope you didn't really do this my mother-in-law laughed at first but then quickly grew angry when she realized I was serious she demanded to be let in and complained that it was too cold to stand outside

for an hour this was quite dramatic in my opinion it was a chilly day for March in the Midwest but they were all wearing large North Face jackets and it couldn't have been any colder than 40 degrees this is giving me ocular pack this isn't real. Scanned them?

Let them hang out in the garage? Hey, you guys have really good equipment. Right. They continued complaining about the weather, so I suggested they go to grab a drink until we're ready for them. I even gave them the name of a great kid-friendly bar and restaurant that was less than a mile away, but they didn't seem to appreciate my recommendation. They yelled at me some more

before leaving soon after that and ended up not returning for dinner. They missed out on an excellent pork roast. It's not real. There's no way this person thinks this way. We didn't hear from them anymore that night. My wife only heard from her brother the next day with him telling her that they ended up just going to his place and ordering takeout. That was a few weekends ago, and we've only seen her side of the family once since then, and it was very tense and awkward to say the least. I will stand by the decision, as I find it extremely rude to not only ignore my wife's messages all day, but then to show up unannounced much

earlier than the agreed-upon time. But now, after a recent interaction with him, I'm wondering if maybe I could have handled the situation slightly differently. He's a maniac. I didn't think we were being unreasonable at the time, but now my wife is now thinking we should have caved in and let them in how would you guys have handled it should we have compromised and let them in 30 minutes earlier at six what if they show up before you

gotta let them in like hey you know what okay you did show up early you don't have to wait outside in the cold for an hour 30 minutes fair i met in the middle. It was a great park thing out there. What can I do now and in the future to repair this rift between them and get along better with their family in general? Any advice is appreciated. Love the pot. If you really did this,

you completely fucked up. Completely fucked up. Like, this is going to be hard to even come back from. You are now the husband of their daughter of, obviously, the sister here. And this is, like, I get it i get it like i used to be kind of just show up guy my dad did it so i i don't know like he just would i'd be like can you tell me when you're coming over because you get older and you're

like hey i just want to know when you're coming over i'm also not you know putting together a pork roast for eight but it just helps when you're the person that is going to be visited be like can you just give me a window can you give me kind of a heads up so I know what I'm doing? I want that window now if somebody's coming by the place. But when it's family like this, and there's two kids, by the way, which makes this way fucking worse, where you know why they didn't get back to you? Because they're carpooling and the brother's getting together his kids and he's dealing with all of his stuff. All right. And there's a standard when it's an immediate family, despite how rigid, maybe some of you are listening to this. I believe there should be a standard that when it's family, when it's this close, you know, it's not the cousin you've never heard from. And you let them in, you let them into the house, fucking turn the TV on and have the kids screw around in the living room. And you can go back there, the bear and prep all this stuff that you need to and then bring it out all right you're not running a restaurant they're showing up because of family there needs to be

way more tolerance leniency with family here so i would the if you really did this because the writing's really good so i'm wondering if it's true if you really did this what you need to do is fall on a sword you need to destroy yourself forever you need to make fun of yourself for years about how fucking stupid you are only because you wanted everything to be perfect and you tell them you were a lunatic because if you really did this this is lunatic behavior yeah um i don't really have much more to say about this other than i mean maybe there'll be some that go like hey it can be an inconvenience yep you know what else is an inconvenience having two kids freezing know what else is an inconvenience?

Having two kids freezing outside for an hour because the brother-in-law is a fucking weirdo about his meal prep. Yeah. You got a really terrible look here. It's going to take a while to get this stink off you. I think if, like I said, if they showed up the day before, you have to let them in. If it was like, oh, we fucked up, you have to let them in. That's insane.

Maybe they don't know. I just watched The Office yesterday where Michael Scott's like, oh, he fucked up. You have to let them in. That's insane. Maybe they don't know. I just watched The Office yesterday where Michael Scott's like, it's actually super polite to show up early to a party when he goes to David Swallow's house. So it's like, you're not in the wrong for being put out, but still, I just...

You have the stink on you. And I think your wife actually got off easy because you thought you were doing her a favor by doing this, but you actually just slapped Chris Rock for making a joke. It wasn't like, this was not the right response to this. And everyone else is like, what the fuck was that, dude?

So you gotta, you can't accept the Oscar. You have to say sorry. So you have to, you can't drag this apology out and you gotta get out in front of this. you already waited too long and she doesn't look as bad as you do even though you thought you were helping her you know because she was stressed as well so you just you're right you got to say completely sorry i don't know what came over me i just wanted everything to be perfect i didn't i didn't think it all happened so fast it was a blur next thing i knew you guys were outside so i'm sorry not that ad it's a colossal fuck up yep

i don't think there's anything to add i don't think there's that because i just don't understand like okay they didn't get back to you but you knew there'd be a window they showed up a bit earlier was your what if they had said they were showing up at 5 30 would you have told them not to like were you trying to spoon the sauce on the back side of the plate here and then have the loin perfectly addressed on top of it so that right when they walked in, it was all going to work out? Kids mess up plans. Kids mess up plans. But even without the kids, this doesn't make any sense. I can't believe you looked at your mother and father-in-law and your brother-in-law and said, we're not ready for you yet.

Okay, that's life advice. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Steve. Bill and I on Sunday, every Tuesday, Thursday. Oh yeah, we get a little spit and chiclets Rosillo pod crossover for you next week that we're pretty excited about.

Have to just dust off the old hockey prep. I probably won't be great on that side of the conversation, but, all right. Uh,

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