The Ryen Russillo Podcast - How Scary Are the New-Look Warriors With Anthony Slater, Plus G League to the Lakers With Mac McClung

Episode Date: April 19, 2022

Ryen opens with a new edition of NBA Playoff Story Rankings, including whether he might be all the way back in on the Warriors, disappointing Jokic criticism, the mess that was the Jazz in Game 2, and more (0:43). Next, he chats with The Athletic’s Anthony Slater about the emergence of Jordan Poole and the Warriors’ new death lineup (17:13). Then, G League and Lakers guard Mac McClung stops by to talk about his journey to the NBA and being one of the first Instagram dunkers (41:08). Finally, he closes it out with some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:00:53). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Anthony Slater and Mac McClung Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

fun podcast for you today we'll do our nba playoff power rankings some observations from last night we'll carry over from the weekend as well but we have anthony slater on the warriors up to on the denver nuggets and what is a real expectation for a team that's looked terrific in the first two. But this is going to be fun too. Mack McClung, the rookie of the year in the G League, South Bay Laker neighbor. His journey, high school dunking sensation on Instagram to somebody trying to find a way to make it in the NBA. That'll be a lot of fun in Life Advice at the End.

This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes.

Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. We have a new addition to the Playoff Power Rankings. Here's a little PSA. These are just power rankings that I used to make up to use as a vehicle to get into

talking about different NBA topics and assorted other stuff. The rankings aren't actually real. So if you're upset that you feel like something is lower than it should be or higher than it should be, probably go outside a little bit more. Steph and the Warriors take the top spot. This is really impressive two games in. And we'll get to why Denver actually is just a brutal matchup for Denver, this Golden State team, better said that way.

But as I said, we had this mysterious open where after the Warriors get it rolling Draymond's coming back Klay's looking a bit more like himself I'm like man I might be I might be all the way back in on this team even though I'm a little worried about the front court depth especially in a matchup against a guy like DeAndre 8 now there's still a lot of work that has to go on to even have that dream scenario in the Western Conference Finals. But what this new lineup of death is doing, and it's Jordan Poole, it's Wiggins, it's Green, it's Steph, and it's Clay, and it's Steph coming off the bench, which I really hope there's someone out there that will give us the television headline, are the Warriors better with Steph off of the bench? Look, they're just, everybody's better with Steph, but this is ridiculous. We're going to have Anthony Slater on

a little bit later in the podcast from The Athletic. And there's a number, and it's very small. We're two games into this, but there's a number where this group and what they're doing offensively is like 200 points per 100 possessions, and they're allowing like 75. So it's absurd.

It's so absurd. it's kind of fake but it's also real it's real for two games but my feeling was if all of these players were together and the plan was to just guard to death not meaning defensively but to basically throw four guards out there even though wiggins is kind of like a small forward he's had moments where he's played you know in the backcourt, have these four dudes out there together with Draymond who couldn't be more fired up to defend Jokic, the MVP. And it's an awful matchup for Denver, but it's a little reminder of what Golden State can look like

when it's horrifying. I don't know if this number is right from last night because I was looking for it this morning and trying to figure out because it's horrifying. I don't know if this number is right from last night because I was looking for it this morning and trying to figure out because it's so ridiculous. But in 19 game minutes, the Warriors scored 70 points. Is that possible? Is it possible that that was real? Because it was from somebody who covers it from a stats thing.

It wasn't like a joke. But that's what it is. I mean, it wasn't a great start for game two. You're like, all right, is Denver motivated? It's just Denver is not very good. All right. So that takes us to number two in the power rankings. Jokic find the missing ballots topic.

This isn't quite like a presidential election debate here, whether or not the election was stolen, but the Jokic has two bad games Denver's down oh to the reassessment of Jokic is the MVP like this is the most predictable thing that we do in sports and we do it with the Heisman uh you know I don't I don't know like I've had I've had issues with arguments we're all here like somebody's good as an NFL player. And then we think back, look, can you believe you didn't win the Heisman? Like, wait, so we're at week eight of his rookie year in the NFL. And now we're supposed to feel bad about who won the Heisman in a completely different fucking sport the previous season. This is not as extreme, but this is kind of the point.

If you're an Embiid or a Giannis guy, you're like, oh, this guy's the MVP. I think that was kind of a point of one of the many points of why Jokic won the MVP or will win the MVP. Again, I voted for him because you're like, this team just isn't that good. But Jokic hasn't been very good. He's minus 45 through two, and all the stats that I believe in with Jokic, the defensive stuff where he was second defensive

win shares behind Tatum for the entire season, you're just like, okay, that's not really what's happening. Because if you watch, too, what Golden State's doing, there are big players where if they're near the rim, it gets you thinking about your drive. It just is. And maybe we don't do a good enough job quantifying what that stuff is. I remember the old Sloan MIT paper about how blocked shots are overrated because they basically never led to possession because when you block a shot, you hit it out. I've also heard people argue like people should be better at blocking shots and then retaining possession. I don't know that it's as easy as that. I know Bill Russell was really good at it, but I think anybody that's

ever played, like when you're going up to try to time somebody to block the shot, if you were timing it to also retain possession, it would just be another element in your mental timing that would kind of screw up your ability probably to block as many shots. But there's another larger point. It's kind of like rebounding. It's not so much how many rebounds you get. It's also how hard you make it to rebound around you. And there are just so many plays throughout an entire night. Well, you'll see this. You're like, okay, he didn't get the rebound, but the reason his team has the rebound or the reason this other guy's struggling or he's exhausted is because you're just tough to deal with rebounding wise. I think a lot of people understand

this. And so when I look at some of the defensive stuff for Jokic, who is yes, a better defender, and we're going to get to this with the Rudy Gobert stuff shortly here as well, but you can see that there's no thought of, oh no, Jokic is there where I think when Embiid is around the paint, certainly Gobert in certain instances, you know, Bam is different because we'll get to that a little bit later when we talk Miami. But you could just see the Golden State's like, we don't care. We're ready to go. So we're seeing a lot of predictable after the fact. Jokic shouldn't be MVP stuff.

And it comes from the Embiid camp. But I don't know when this is going to go away. You know, maybe is it going to go on forever? It could maybe until next year's MVP. But I think what's really, really frustrating about some of the arguments that are crazy is that if you look at Jokic and say, oh, well, more made up numbers, non-ballers. I saw Hanlon again and Beach Trainers saying you shouldn't have a vote unless you can make a left handed layup and shoot a free throw. I feel good about that contest for me personally. But the funny part about the argument is when you say Jokic is really good and all these stupid numbers that don't mean anything.

And again, I've just admitted I think the defensive stuff is completely overblown. The rest of the overall stats for Jokic that he's amazing at and led the categories in, you know who's like number two or three in almost all of them? Embiid or Giannis. So you can't simultaneously shit on Jokic for having awesome numbers in these supposedly stupid numbers while your candidate is right there with everybody else. Win shares, Jokic won and Bede three. Offensive win shares, Jokic won and Bede four.

PER, Jokic won and Bede three. Vorp, who everybody makes fun of because it sounds stupid, Jokic won and Bede three. Defensive win shares, as I mentioned, Jokicic won and Bede three. Defensive win shares. As I mentioned, Jokic was second and Bede's fourth. Best plus minus through the entire season. Jokic won and Bede three. That's box score plus minus, which relates also to total points added.

Jokic is first and Bede is third. So whenever you're making fun of those numbers, you're actually discrediting your own candidate if you're on social media constantly talking about B beat but here's a very simple part of this look at what golden state's doing from three right now uh you've got pool shooting 59 from three steph 50 clay 44 wiggins is at 60 that's on 28 three-point attempts through two games you're not going to beat anybody when the other team shoots like that and denver has a ton of problems other than a frustrated ejected yokich in game two. Let's get to the Rudy Gobert part of this, because coming in at number three,

I always feel like this is complicated. I felt like I've been on an island for this for a little while now, and we knew what Dallas was going to do. We mentioned it in the preview, especially not having the Donchich part of this, but they've made the adjustment. They went full Clipper small in game two. Maxi Kleber hit a million shots. There's also a turnover number in there that's incredibly alarming. And Donovan Mitchell, who, yes, I really like, takes it upon himself. And then the whole doesn't pass to Gobert thing, those guys don't pass to him. Gobert completely fumbled a point-blank shot at the rim. It's 6.30 left in the fourth quarter.

He never touched the basketball again. He had a post on the left block earlier in the game where he tried to do like a baseline pivot against the defender. It went off his foot. I think people were laughing about it. And unfortunately for Rudy, you're tasked with covering the rim, protecting the rim, which is really covering for your perimeter defenders because Mitchell was terrible on defense last night.

And they just don't have – I mean, Mike Conley got toasted by Jalen Brunson. Shout out to Brunson. Shout out to Kleber for what they did offensively, coming back and winning this game. Mitchell has been inefficient. But I feel like whenever you question the Gobert defensive impact thing, this almost relates to the Jokic thing a little bit, is that I like some of the numbers. I use a lot of the numbers. I'm not blind and married to all of them. You've got to be a little malleable with this stuff. And I've never been more malleable

about what some of the overall numbers are than I am with Rudy Gobert because I know what his on-off thing is. I know what he means to this Utah defense, which definitely slipped this year. I think Rudy wasn't exactly to his standard. But when I see somebody become a liability in playoff games this often, I don't understand why there's an argument against it. And that's what Dallas did. And it's a hard assignment to do both things. So it's not all on him. It's not all on Gobert and the Clippers thing, but it's also something that you're going to attack. And I don't know if I'm early on this. I don't know. something that you're going to attack. And I don't know if I'm early on this. I don't know. There's some people who are just going to say I'm completely wrong, but I've felt for years now,

there's never been a bigger separation between regular season and playoff basketball. And Gobert may just straight up be a victim in all of this. I take Bam defensively in a playoff series, even against a bigger player, I would take him over Gobert every single day of the week. That gets us to number four, spite rankings. The heat culture was terrific in game one. If there was a team that was going to be able to get through all the Jimmy Butler nonsense that we saw, even if it was entertaining, even if it's like, hey, here we go with Jimmy Butler again, which is fair because this is a real thing. If there was one team where it just wasn't really going to matter that much,

it's the Heat. Now, some would argue, I think Bill was going more with the playoff scheduling for Atlanta having to play all those games, and then the Heat, I believe, won one game in nine days, so tons of extra time. I also just think that the Heat are so locked in defensively in what they did with Trey, that Trey's got to figure out some counters here quickly.

You've got to get the ball moving. You've got to move once you get rid of the basketball. I think some smart teams, and it's very simple, hey, they're doubling our main guy, our main offensive guy who has the ball in his hands and is bringing it up. Get it out of his hands immediately, run him through a screen, come back up and catch it again. Yes, it takes off time at the shot clock,

and we've got to be quicker on decisions now with like 12 left on the shot clock as opposed to initiating our offense at like 18. But it does seem to work because when you go through one thing it seems like teams don't defend the second team or the second thing as well i think phoenix defends the second thing well and the heat certainly do but that's going to be something they're going to have to do but it's back to the bam part because i love bam switching into bam is not anything anybody ever wants to do it's not like hey let's

get a switch into bam but bam was upset about not winning defensive player of the year. Marcus Smart won it. Congrats to Smart. I was surprised that Smart won it with that many votes. I don't think he was the single best defensive player all season long. That's fine. I'm not going to get a huge fight about it. I think there were so many different options this season.

But Bam saying the Heat didn't get it because the national TV exposure is ridiculous. There's some weird post not getting an award complaints that we've seen that are just strange overall. Like Jordan Poole not winning most improved player. I voted for him. It's okay that he didn't win it. People are acting like this is – some of the results that come in and we're like,

wait, you guys care that much about most improved player? Like what's, what's that? So bam was like, we're not on TV enough. It's the night. No, bam,

you missed 26 games, man. You missed 26 games. Smart played almost the entire season. So, um, that's what happened there. Hell,

I voted Jaron Jackson and I'm not even sure that I'm right about that either. Uh, uh, higher in the, Higher in the playoff power rankings, middle fingers. Middle fingers do not bother me. I do think it's a little weird that you have an NBA player just flicking dudes off

left and right throughout a playoff game. But I don't know that we get a ton of thought on this. Were people really outraged? I don't know that they were. Do you want to find outrage? We can always find outrage. We can find outrage on anything. But real people that you respect, are they going on TV saying this is the worst thingged? I don't know that they were. Do you want to find outrage? We can always find outrage. We can find outrage on anything. But like real people that you respect, are they going on TV saying this is the worst thing ever? I don't know.

I don't watch a ton of the sports topic shows because I have work to do. But I don't think that many people are that upset. And at this point, if you're still pro-Kyrie, you're never changing your mind. And if you're anti-Kyrie, you're never changing your mind. And I'm probably in that. But as much as I can appreciate what he did.

But I wonder if the heckling, which seemed like it was not working the entire time, if it actually worked on that last possession where Kyrie wanted that jumper so bad, which he has a tendency to do. But, you know, so do the great players because they want that shot. They want to be able to prove it, walk off and have everything. But I think the middle finger part of it's weird in that. It's like, oh, that is kind of, like, we don't see that a ton. And if David Stern were commissioner, I think we would have

a different news topic on that to deal with. All right, last one here. Lower in the power rankings, perfect games in baseball. We didn't get to the Clayton Kershaw thing. I think it sucks that he gets yanked 80 pitches in. I mean, that's the whole point. It's like, well, what if he's going to have 100 plus? Well, that's the whole point. It's like, well, what if he's going to have 100 plus? Well, that's the whole point is it's a perfect game.

Nobody's getting on base. So his pitch count is lower. The stress of pitches is different. 80 pitches in one game may be different from 80 pitches in a different game. But we have so many no hitters, not so much perfect games. We had nine no hitters last year, 2021. So a lot like three point shooting and trying to compare to different eras. You're like, hey, it's a different sport.

Some of the pitching numbers are like this where you go, okay, I can see what somebody's doing in this era historically and how it stacks up against other things. I just think it's completely different because guys don't care about striking out all the time. That's why we had nine no-hitters in 21, 13 total no-hitters in the 1980s. Hey, Hoops fans, don't just watch all the NBA playoff action.

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quarter the hell out of you. But I think I'd like the points. The one that I would focus in here, the highest total for any of the three games, to Memphis is a 240 I just wonder if that game's going to just be they're not going to have as many free throws I think we're almost 70 combined free throws so that's going to mess with the total I would think that's not going to happen again and just a little bit more familiarity with what each are going to do, especially after, look, they played four times in the regular season, so this isn't exactly new. But if I had to, under 240, second time facing each other. So there

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First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable site credit that expires 14 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona. 1-800-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut. 1-800-GAMBLER or visit panduel.com forward slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, New Jersey, PA, Virginia, or 1-877-770-STOP in Louisiana, 1-800-270-7117.

For confidential help, Michigan, 1-877-8-HOPE-NEW-YORK, or text HOPE-NEW-YORK, 467-369-NEW-YORK. Tennessee Red Line, 1-800-889-9789, Tennessee, or visit 1-800-GAMBLER.net, West Virginia. From the Athletic, does a great job covering the Warriors, the 2-0 up on Denver Warriors. It's Anthony Slater. All right, this looked really good.

I think a lot of us knew this was probably not a great matchup for Denver. Denver's not that good, and it's been even more horrifying. What have you seen the first two games? Yeah, I mean, it's, as you mentioned, particularly without Murray and Porter, the Oakens can be targeted in all the screen action they want,

which tires them out on the offensive end. I think that's an important part of that strategy. And they just, they're guard defenders. Like, Will Barton, Monte Morris, okay, I guess, defensively. Austin Rivers is supposed to be their, like, Curry ace off the bench. I mean, I wouldn't even have him in, like, the top 20 Curry defenders in the league. So they just can't do anything.

But how the Warriors have looked has mattered. Not just that they're up 2-0 on Denver. What Draymond has done with the Okich matchup has shown he should be able to go small ball center all playoffs, essentially. And then I'm sure you want to get to the Jordan Poole stuff. But if Jordan Poole is just going to be a second Steph Curry on the floor,

that seems difficult to defend. All right. We could go in a million. Let's just do the Jordan Poole part. I voted for him for most improved player. I did too. Yeah, I did too. And I remember hearing, because I had mentioned like,

I think he was eighth in overall plus minus last year. I'm going, okay, wait a minute. Some of that's connected to Steph. And then I think there was another Golden State Warriors media member. I don't forget who it was. And I don't mean to say that to be dismissive, but it was like, okay, wait a minute. Some of that's connected to Steph. And then I think there was another Golden State Warriors media member. I don't forget who it was. And I don't mean to say that to be dismissive, but it was like, hey, it's not, you don't watch the games. They're different rotations. So then I went to second spectrum. I go, well, can you sort this for me? And they were like, yeah, there's still enough minutes there with Steph that like Jordan Poole's

not eighth in plus minus in a normal situation over the course of an NBA season. But it was a sign, right? It was a sign of improvement and his confidence and a little bit more of like, oh, wait, is this guy showing me some things? But then to see this, where it doesn't look like anybody can guard him, and he has it all. He has the full package, and you can't stay in front of him, and he can shoot, and he's as confident as anybody out there. Give me your Jordan Poole like timeline but then

also like Bill and I have started doing like what if he is this good like how different do you have to look at him and then the future of the Warriors yeah I mean a preseason I think I I think I was on Zach Lowe's podcast and I was like my he might be going towards CJ McCollum range I'm like ducking I'm like that sounds terrible but then but then I might have told you you were crazy. That's what I mean. I was saying like, I felt like I was saying that to a national audience and they were going to be like, what is this guy talking? C.J. McCollum for this kid?

Now that seems like a floor almost. But anyway, his timeline, it is fascinating. Really, I mean, we're talking 28th overall pick comes into a dynasty that has just died, at least temporarily, right? Clay's out for the year, basically vacationing away from the team. Draymond's uninterested in the season. Steph breaks his hand five games into it.

They're 15 and 50 that year. He is forced into the rotation and he was maybe the worst rotation player in the league. I mean, I think the December of his rookie year, he was like one of 20 on two pointers and like, oh, of like 16 on threes. Like I think he finished the season 28% overall, 30 something or 20% for three, 30 something percent overall. And then the pandemic hits and he's, he's basically an afterthought. They don't go to the bubble. You are basically entering his second season, which happens way further away than you thought,

thinking they whiffed at 28, which they had done. They whiffed on Jacob Evans at 28. That's not catastrophic. That's the whiff neighborhood, by the way. Yeah, it really is. But you're talking to people behind the scenes. Krista Marco is the coach that works with him closest and some of the other people that during the bubble,

they were allowed to go one basket, one coach, like one player coach got to wear a mask and like gloves. But he was watching pool was watching like the bubble playoffs and watching Tyler hero, the way Tyler hero moves off the ball and scores. They're very similar games. And he was like sending clips to DeMarco, like, Hey, let's go in the gym tomorrow. Work on this, run me through some of the Tyler and scores. They're very similar games. And he was sending clips to DeMarco like,

Hey, let's go in the gym tomorrow. Work on this. Run me through some of the Tyler Hero stuff. And I'm sure you've heard all the stories. He is one of those obsessive workers behind the scenes. And I know that gets overplayed in sports. But people that work hard like Draymond Green have worked themselves to this point are impressed with his work.

So that's how he got better, got his body stronger. Year two, they signed Brad Wanamaker to play over him. And Steve Kerr did play Brad Wanamaker over him, which in retrospect looks like a rough decision, but it sends him to the G League bubble. He's basically the best player in the G League bubble. That convinces Kerr finally to put him in the starting lineup. But Steve has been on this hype of he's not a true point guard

and he's always wanted to have a ball handler out there with him. That's why he wanted Wanamaker with him. And then Nico Mannion, actually, when he brought Poole back from the bubble, he's like, well, we can't play him at backup points. It's got to be Nico Mannion out there with him. Finally, he has allowed Jordan Poole

a little bit more reign. And you saw this season what he's done with it. So this guard line, which I had been told like, okay, what do you think the plan will be with this team? And it was just we're going to throw all those dudes out there at the same time and just see if

it can't be defended. And right now, Denver can't defend it. What's the number that you had this morning? Again, it's real, but it's kind of fake, but it's also absurd. So they're plus 29 in 11 minutes. That's a 204 offensive rating and a 75 defensive rating. I think it's like 42 to 11 or something. You know, 42 to 13.

Yeah, it doesn't matter. I mean, it's broken open both games. Denver's been in both games. And then second quarter, he finally goes to it. And it's just a little like four-minute pocket game's over. Now, the question becomes moving forward. Like, got to start this lineup. Draymond, do you hear Draymond at the podium last night?

Yeah. Somebody asked me, you know, Steph Curry, sixth man, best sixth man you've ever seen, like a joking question. And he's like, look, Steph Curry's starting. But then he was like, I think Jordan Poole should be starting too. And then you're just like, alright, well then who's coming out? To me, it's clearly going to end up being Looney. I think that that

lineup starts against Memphis or Minnesota. And that is just who they ride with, I think, going forward. And then you could back up Draymond with Looney. But I think in the modern age with how Draymond's looking, he should just start at center. Have you had moments then?

Because I've joked and made fun of myself, as I mentioned in the open, because there was an open that we did, and then Steph got rolled up, and I taped it the night before, which I never do, and I called Kyle, my producer, I go, hey, just cut that open, because now Curry got rolled up, and I don't know. I felt like prior to that game, that's how much I was looking forward to that Boston game, but I called Kyle, my producer. I go, hey, just cut that open because now Curry got rolled up and I don't know. I felt like prior to that game,

that's how much I was looking forward to that Boston game, but I was like, I think I'm starting to feel things again. I'm worried about the frontline depth, which maybe we'll touch on here a little bit, but even if it's Denver, but having these three guys back and then pool playing like this, and this is the best play is left, do you start to have

little moments of going, wait, do I have to think that this team can now get out of the West, or is that just still crazy? Yeah, I mean, it's because of how Draymond's looked and Poole's looked. We can mention Steph. He did have 34 points in 23 minutes off the bench last night. But,

and I'm writing about this tomorrow, but this Draymond Poole connection that has formed over the last month I don't think it should be kind of I guess understated or overstated whatever early in the season there was a moment you know Jordan Poole started at the two in Clay Thompson's place and they played a few months together were really good they went 18-2

to start the season but Poole was the kind of play still playing his a little erratic game always looking for his own. And he kept rejecting Draymond's screens. And there was... They were beating... I think it was the Wolves. And there was suddenly a blow up on the

bench that went viral. Like, whoa, Draymond Green's going after Jordan Poole? They're up like 11 and they're 10-1 right now. What's going on? And it was because Poole kept rejecting his screens in the half court and trying to take guys one-on-one. Draymond kept trying to impress on him. Look at what I do with Steph. You can use the DHOs.

You can use my screens. I can make the game much easier for you. There was never that type of connection. And then Draymond's belief is because Steph was out the last month, blessing in disguise, he said, he could suddenly just start working on that stuff with Jordan Poole. And he said, even himself, look, if Steph's not out there,

I was just looking for someone. Because I think we all know Draymond's kind of relying on that too, right? Because if Steph or Jordan Poole's not out there, he kind of gets someone embarrassed offensively. They sag off him. He can't DHO a shooter because there's no shooter out there. So they did that the last month and to me that exploded jordan pool even more i don't know how much like you've

probably noticed it lately he's basically doing the steph stuff yeah but it's a great point on draymond too because if you're turning down draymond screens and he's like what am i doing out here like right because i mean the whole point is either i get the ball off the double or you know like the back cut stuff that we saw last night, too, is hilarious. I mean, we had the clay cut because Tuesday was Steph, but then you see some of the shit happens with pool now where you're like, this is all like it's the best version of basketball because it's like, hey, if you just give a little bit more effort

than what other teams do in the half court, your life is going to be so easy here. And once people figure that out, then this is that kind of an explosion. Yeah, I mean, and it's funny because they've had Wiseman, they have Kaminga now, and sometimes there's the thought of like, run high pick and roll with those two guys. They're great dive men with Steph.

And I know Kurt's point at times is like, so we're putting Draymond in the corner. He's the stationary in the corner where they're obviously ignoring him. So they run a unique style, but what they didn't have last season when they had Wiseman out there not knowing where to go and Kelly Oubre, who

plays a unique style in itself that does not fit the Warriors. They have guys this season that just know how to run how they want to run. You're seeing that all come together with even Iguodala. I know he didn't play yesterday, but he's been back lately too, which stabilizes the second unit. And I mean, it is a really, really good matchup for them, Denver.

But how they've looked makes you wonder how far they can go. Yeah, and it's really the question here because I'm always going to give them the benefit of the doubt because of the Steph part of it. But now when Draymond looks like this and Clay looks like this, but then I'll keep coming back to me like, you kind of knew this was going to happen with Denver. And once you've seen the playoffs, you're like, all right, this team isn't really that good. And the defensive stuff with Jokic, although I think better, but exposed last year in the playoffs, but better in the regular season part of it.

You can see when they're getting the ball and they kind of swing it to the other side and then there's an angle on the drive, those guys couldn't be happier to have Jokic standing under the rim. It's pretty funny how they were like, yeah, whatever, we don't care. We're going right at you every time. There's just nothing.

There's no resistance there, right? I mean, have you seen some of that stuff? I don't know if it's even been touched on in some of the postgame stuff, but it's one thing to have spacing in a lane run. It's another thing to have spacing and no fear. No rim protection. I mean, in Aaron Gordon,

we don't need to get into an Aaron Gordon conversation, but is he their second best player? And if he is, he's had a horrible series on both ends, right? They're sagging off of him, and then he just doesn't do much. But to me, I'm already... I actually don't think. But to me, I'm already maybe...

I actually don't think it's unwatched. I'm already looking at the other matchups, right? If it is Memphis, you know, Jaron Jackson, small ball center, and they're out there. They got Dylan Brooks hounded some of these guys and Desmond Bain. And, you know, that is a much stiffer challenge.

And there's been moments early in these Denver games, right? They're up eight middle of the second quarter where they're pressing a little bit more up on them. The Warriors are throwing sloppy turnovers. They get pretty turnover happy, but Denver's not turning them over whereas that's what Memphis does. That's why Memphis was successful against them this season.

That matchup's a lot scarier. That, to me, is why you start Jordan Poole right away because usually when the Warriors look their most congested offensively, it's when Kavon Looney and Draymond Green are on the floor together. I just don't think you can do those minutes against Memphis. And then beyond that, how good did Phoenix look defensively the other day? There's just so many more tougher challenges defensively waiting for this offense.

Yeah, that's a good way to put it. And I think you also have to include a possibility in Minnesota and then wondering, okay, well, how would that Towns matchup work out? Because even if you feel like this other team, like Aiton or Towns, and you're like, oh, they're just going to go into the post against us. Nobody does it. Nobody does it. You're not going to run 20 post isos for DeAndre Aiton. You're not going to do it with Towns,

especially when Towns proves to have a shooting season that he just had. So you could probably still survive with the lack of depth, but that's the part of it that I don't. I know there was always hope that Wiseman would come back, but even if Wiseman is going to be good and was going to be healthy, a guy who's barely played basketball for three years to say, oh, now, by the way, you're part of our playoff run with high expectations, not just, hey, we're happy to be here as a 7 or 8 seed.

Are you surprised they didn't find a way to maybe give a little depth up front, or were they just sort of in a roster crunch where they liked so many of their other players? Well, it's kind of the faulty part of their developmental plan. Win now, develop now is kind of how it's been termed around here. But they wanted a path cleared for James Wiseman. He was the second overall pick. You think Joe Lake wanted Robin Lopez standing for James Wiseman. He was the second overall pick. You think Joe Lake wanted Robin Lopez

standing in James Wiseman's way to playing time? No, and the problem for them is it wasn't like December came along, he had the second knee surgery, and it was like, okay, out for the season. It was always like two weeks away, two weeks away, two weeks away, and it's just the way it, I guess, materialized allowed them always to think that this, you know, the mystical James Wiseman was looming two weeks away

and it never let them add when they probably should have. For this season purposes, they always should have. But they were trying to clear a path for James Wiseman. And that is the one part of this plan that has really worked out against them because it looks like they hit on Kaminga. It looks like they hit on Moody. They developed the hell out of Jordan Poole. Everything kind of is working well for them except for the Wiseman part.

And either that's not going to matter because Draymond Green is just going to roam around all playoffs and do what he's doing to Jokic, to Towns, or Jackson, to Aiton, whatever. Or Draymond's going to wear down. Looney's not going to be enough. And you're going to be sitting there when they're down three, one in the West finals going, man,

they should have added this, you know, extra help at the big spot. What's the pool money approach here? Because Max, you think in front of it, I think, well,

sorry, I was talking from the pool perspective. And the perspective is I think... Well, sorry. I was talking from the pool perspective. No. I get that part. The pool perspective is if a Max is not on the table now, he's a guy who has shown he's going to get better.

That's what he does. He gets better because he's in the gym like crazy. So to me, if Max isn't on the table, he should go see you in restricted free agency. Sacramento Kings right up the road. Maybe they'll max me or the magic with an offer sheet. So if that's not on the table, I just don't think it gets done this summer at this point with how he's looked on this stage from a Warriors perspective, you know, the tax crunch that they're in, but what's

key. And I think it gets lost in this conversation about pools money. Yes. He's extension eligible this summer, but the money doesn't kick in until the season after. He's only making $3.9 million regardless next season if an extension is agreed upon. And Andrew Wiggins, what is he at?

$33 million at this point? His contract is up after next season. So the moment Wiggins is up is when Poole's extension would kick in. You could essentially just replace those two contracts. And at this point, I mean, I think it's pretty clear

organizationally, like Jordan Poole has hopped Andrew Wiggins in the future pecking order. So we'll see how they want to move money around. But that is the easy answer. You can just replace Wiggins' money with Poole's money. There was always this kind of thought of the next guy. I never quite understood the Beal thing because I feel like he's a ball stopper. And that's why I think when Paul George was available and I'd heard rumors about whether or not Golden State would be interested.

And you're just like, yeah, but you have to buy into what they're doing. You can't be a ball stopper while now everybody's watching you. And even Durant, I think it was easy for Durant because Durant's incredible. But to his credit, I don't think he ball stopped the way he could somewhere else. Like all the ISO that he can run in Brooklyn. And feel free if you disagree with any of that just jump in but um hey would they throw wiseman would they throw cominga would they throw pool you know use the wiggins money or any of that kind of stuff does it feel like and we don't really know the answer to this because maybe the next mad guy wants to play there and it's a no-brainer but does it feel like

the packaging all of the assets is being replaced by we're just going to ride it out with the development of our own guys because it seems like coming of the ceiling for him you know after it after it works like well maybe just you stay pat here and try to just schedule out the contracts and keep it together instead of throwing three for one and somebody else to fit in with our culture. Yeah, and the truth is the decision makers up top, and you know the names, Joe Lakob, Bob Myers, but particularly, obviously, Lakob. That's always been the plan. The Bradley Beal noise is like veterans knowing guys in the league

that they think can help them win this season. That's why in training camp, I don't know how much you follow the noise, but they preferred Avery Bradley. Front office preferred Gary Payton the second because they just felt it was like a developmental piece that had a higher potential value for them, not even just this season and beyond. They went

Payton and the veterans were upset they didn't do Bradley. Now, obviously, that has tilted towards the front office. That was a good decision. I just... Joe Lacob cares about 2025, 2026, 2027. He has publicly come out

and even had quotes. I remember I did an interview after the draft about Kaminga and he was like, he even named the Lakers. He's like, I don't want to be the Lakers that chases down, tries to chase down one or two titles and squeak it out and mortgages the next six seasons. He's like, the Lakers that, you know, chases down, tries to chase down one or two titles and squeak it out and mortgages the next six seasons. He's like the Lakers went six seasons.

I think he said without making the playoffs, if that's the correct number, he doesn't want to do that. Now there are drawbacks to that. You're seeing it with what we just mentioned with Wiseman, their obsession with, you know, having a clear path for Wiseman probably hurt what their depth could have been particularly in the front court this season, but this is their plan. I just don't think Lakob is running off of it. I think it would be more likely that

he turns away from the current era over the next couple of seasons. Then he leans in hard and is like, Kaminga's gone, Wiseman's gone, Poole at this point, not Poole, for Pascal Siakam or Ben Simmons, whoever.

Like you said, name your star. I just think he, at this point, believes he's grooming the next playoff version of his core that includes a lessened version of Curry, Klay, and maybe Draymond. This is very obvious in that, because the personality of Steph and Klay, and even Durant when he was there, they're kind of maybe passive isn't the right word, but they're not super emotionally charged guys, which is why Draymond's energy is needed. I always feel like successful teams, you need something like that. But it's funny seeing Poole and the pass that he had to be Elisa last night and then Draymond's reaction on the bench and then gary payton the second which i didn't love him you know doing that to yokich he does that all the time right yeah yeah i mean

yokich being pissed about gary payton blocking a shot and then patting his ass and being like don't touch me like i i totally understand especially especially when it's like no offense to gary payton the second but if you're yokokic's level, you're like, what the fuck? You're just doing. But seeing that you've got these two younger dudes that have a little bit more Draymond in them than the other guys, it's almost like a new layer of swagger for this team that didn't usually have a lot of guys like this. Just do their job and make shots and embarrass you.

And now you've got guys that want to embarrass you and also tell you about it, which is why I think I've seen different cutaways to Draymond where he's laughing his ass off because this is kind of like a new thing. Yeah, and I'd add Kaminga into that. I mean, he'll dunk on you, and he has kind of a spectacular game

that I'm not sure how much will be showcased in the playoffs. Maybe he'll get cameos, but right now he's obviously out of the rotation. I agree. It is... The personality is shifting a little bit. The funny thing is, I mean, like, you know, Poole and Draymond have,

I mentioned the little blow up earlier on the bench. There's been clashes with them. I mean, even early in Poole's rookie season practices where he came in with that confidence level. And, you know, obviously there's a Michigan State rivalry. They're always chirping about that rivalry in the locker room. But Poole has proven to them that he can be trusted to win. And they've been crazy hard on him.

Steve Kerr has been really hard on him. Iguodala has given him tough lessons. We've written about a few of them. There was a funny one in the Players Union when Poole was in a slump and he threw the ball off the TV screen in the Players Union practice facility and cracked it a little bit. And Iguodala is one of the reps for the Players Union. He was in the gym. He does a theatrical walkover and look at it like,

you're going to pay for that? I'm going to have to tell the whole league. This is why $450 is coming out of everybody's checks. They're always keeping him in line. what they've liked about him, and you talked about it, he has taken it. He's taken the bad coaching. He's taken the benching at times this season.

Four people will make a defensive mistake over a bad sequence during the regular season, but the last one was Jordan Poole missing a box out, let's say. It's like, timeout, Steve Kerr. Everyone's getting up. Mike Brown is right in Jordan Poole's face. Iguodala is coming over. And I think there's been at times a lot of Jordan Poole this season, like, really me again? How about Draymond? I can't make a jumper. Something like that. But he has absorbed it

well and has come out better for it. And now, to me, the relationship between Draymond and Poole is very strong. Were you in the building last night? Yeah. Okay. Did you... Was Denver mad at each other for two and a half hours? What was going on on the bench? Because the broadcast did not really do a great job. So, I mean, it was really... It wasn't a full game, obviously.

They were up A. They were playing pretty well. And then when that lineup came in, Denver just got completely discombobulated. their matchups kept getting screwed up in transition um and like you know you suddenly like gordon was on staff there was one point yokich was on pool i remember when yokich just crashed into jordan pool as he's shooting a three there was just like a lot of that going on just it was so disorganized and clearly coming into game two like pregame that's all Malone was talking about like we have to be better communicating so that seemed to be at the core of like what was

going on they were there was one possession where Denver made a shot you might remember Steph walked up in transition like nobody's picking me up and he just pulled up from three and Monte Morris or Barton I remember did one of those like looking around like they were starting to yell at each other. And then as he's

going to the bench, Cousins says something to him. Don't know what DeMarcus Cousins said. I've had plenty of conversations I used to cover DeMarcus Cousins. He can be a little bit mean at times. It's like those short little comments. Clearly, it pissed Barton off. They go at it and

it was the microcosm of the night. They had a little mini scuffle on the bench. What was crazy about it though is only the little corner of the arena that was near the Denver bench saw it but Draymond saw it and he ran out to center court during the timeout and was telling everyone like get up get up like yell at them basically

and then in postgame he criticized the fans. He's like they got to see that sooner. They got to get louder quicker. They got to be on them. We'll see if there's another one in that building again for this series. Thanks a lot, man. Appreciate your work. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me. I love living here

because there's always different options. A lot of people like to go to Lakers games and try to get courtside seats. I am more of a South Bay Lakers guy, and to get courtside seats i am more of a south bay lakers guy and i i got courtside to the lakers and the warriors affiliate santa cruz and i got to see the g league rookie of the year mac mcclung uh up close and personal and mac joins us now what's up man this is a lot of fun i'm fired up to do this what's up guys i appreciate you guys having me on me too all right so what was this year like for you? It was definitely a mental grind. I think, you know, I have so much respect for people in the G League.

And, you know, it's easy to, you know, look at other people's races and try to compare yours to them. But I think the biggest thing I learned was just to work on myself each day and try to be the best version of myself and not focus on someone else's race or someone else's journey. So it's challenging, you know. Shout out to guys like Andre Ingram who's been in this league for 10, 11 years. So it's a grind, and I definitely respect the G League. Yeah, so you were with the Lakers,

and then you're not with them, and then you get picked up by the Bulls, right? I'm just trying to get the timeline right uh and you get into an actual Bulls game for two minutes I love that you get a jumper up immediately were you telling yourself like hey get a shot up here get on the board yeah I think I was like being aggressive just kind of play like I was playing well in the practices so I was like I felt good I felt so I was like, I felt good. I felt confident. But, yeah, I just kind of just said, I'm going to let the game come to me. If it's open, it's open.

And, you know, the fans, they were like, they wanted a bucket bad, so I just tried to give them what they wanted. If you go back and kind of, you know, you get picked back up by the Lakers. Before we go back in time here, you get picked back up by the Lakers. You play, I think, what, 26 games with south bay lakers uh and then you get called up to play in that last game denver can you kind of take us through like what's your understanding because you're putting up numbers you're hoping to get a call up the laker season isn't going nearly the way they thought it was what kind of communication are you having with your agent and your people

and going like hey am i close am i going to get called up because i'm sure they wanted to keep you in south bay to see what would happen with the playoffs but there's there's a lot of stuff going on there yeah there was a lot going on you know there's multiple times uh you know my agent hit me and we thought we're a certain situation to get out even my south bay gm thought i was going to be gone uh certain times and i was still there for weeks and weeks and weeks because the way I was playing but I kind of fell in love with you know South Bay and I was like man I just want to win a championship here like that's we all really like each other and that kind of became the focus that's where my mind was that was just like man if we can win a championship this year that would be great and I love the guys I was with so

I didn't look at it as like oh I'm ready to ready to get out of here. I was like, man, can I keep growing here? Can we win for South Bay? And that was kind of my mentality throughout the year. So you play in that Denver game. Talk about being baptized into the Lakers and the NBA life. Give me the lead up. Because at that point,

the season's kind of over for them. And I know Austin went off as well. But what was the lead up to being like, okay, I'm back in this and I have a real game to go here and I'm going to play? that point the season's kind of over for them and you know i know austin went off as well but what was what was the lead up to being like okay i'm back in this and i have a real game to go here and i'm gonna play yeah so when i when i got there well the two days before when our season was over my agent was like yeah like this is a big possibility this you might get to two way with the lakers and i was just like patient because you know i was like i'm either gonna go home or i'm either gonna be at the lakers and uh they told me told me I was on the two-way and I was going to go play.

And then Frank, like, introduced me and was like, yeah, Max, I'm going to play tonight. And I was like, oh, nice. Like, let's go. You know, I'm excited. And it was great. You know, I definitely underestimated the Denver air, though. I was struggling to breathe.

But, no, it was a great – it was a fun game. I don't was struggling to breathe but no it was um it was a great it was a fun game i don't know if you watched it was like a fun game to be part of like came back within i think it was nine points with 50 some seconds or something like that it was just you know austin reeds was unbelievable it was it was a lot of fun so but people know this about you you were you were like the first instagram dunker like You were almost before Zion in a way. I remember hearing about you being like, have you seen this kid? This kid?

And Van Pelt and I would be watching the videos being like, holy shit, look at this guy. And so you've had, your name's been out there for a while. Did any of the other guys, the established guys, LeBron, any of those dudes say anything to you when you get introduced and you're around this team? They definitely, I think, have seen the videos and stuff, but they were super nice to me.

I think they knew who I was. First day I got there, it was a really nice gesture from Anthony Davis. He let me work out with him. I was on the other side about to work out. He was like, I'll come work out with me. It just shows how side about to work out he's like you know come work out with me you know so it just kind of shows kind of how those guys were and they were very open to me and just like you know i loved rondo watching rondo and and learning from him but yeah all those guys are great guys and they were real open and you know nobody was really shut off or anything like that yeah but it was a weird season and then on top of that frank gets fired that night so what was that experience like for you because you're going hey i got some points we had this crazy game in denver and it was a wild game and now frank who just introduced me now there's rumors that he doesn't

know that he's fired and look i know you want a future with the lakers here so i don't expect you to be like going crazy or anything but there's a lot of stuff that you're balancing the emotions of so many different things happening as the season closed for you and the team yeah um i didn't really know about the situation and i like frank as a person he was he was good to me and you know um you know throughout the game he's just giving me pointers and stuff but yeah i don't really like know how any of that other stuff works i just kind of like focus on myself and and trying to be a trying to trying to play well and stay the course. So, um, but that situation, I don't, I don't even really know how to comment on it. Yeah.

Right. I mean, Matt, I didn't expect you to say, Hey, I think it was a huge mistake as you're sitting here in a two way, trying to figure out like the rest, rest of your, uh, your NBA career. So let's go back to those high school days. What was, what was the first realization of like oh this is real and people are paying attention all the views the dunks the recruiting what was the first time where you felt like okay i might be the same but now everything around me is different yeah um

i really didn't realize for a long time i don't think like you just said you were talking about like i really i would see there be like oh there's two million views on this there should be like i didn't understand like people like it almost at some points i almost felt like everyone was watching when i got in college and stuff like every like frat boy who'd be like yo what's you know what i mean it was just like i didn't really understand when i was in high school the like i understand people around my hometown were watching and everything, but I didn't understand how many people knew who I was until I would go places and everybody would just look at me

and whisper and talk. Obviously, I'm not a celebrity, but it felt like a lot sometimes. Almost a lot of places I would go, I would get stopped and ask for pictures. I was like, man, this is a lot different. I'm not the kid from gate Sydney anymore. That just fits in everywhere I go. But, um,

I think if I could go to a certain story, I went in Vegas. It was soon as I got out of high school, I went to Vegas for an AU showcase and this like worker ran out of the store and he was like, you met McClellan. I was like, I was like, how do you know my name? It's like a family member or something. He's like, Oh, I need to picture me. I was like, met mcclellan i was like i was like how do you know my name it's like a family member or something he's like i need to picture me i was like oh wow like that's that's it's a little different now how old were you when you threw down your first dunk i think it was the end of my freshman year so i wasn't that athletic uh i was like quick and

and fast but like my balance wasn't there i was just obsessed with it and i finally started dunking around like the end of my freshman year. Not anything cool, but just regular dunks. How tall are you? 6'1"? 6? I'm actually at 6'2", I think, at the combine.

Okay. All right. How tall were you when you threw down your first dunk? Probably 5'10". Yeah, 5'10". But then something happened, like the burst. You know, whatever that next level is where you were just throwing down and there was some violence behind it too.

I think dunking is weird. Not that I'm some sick dunker, but once you know you can do it, then there's this level of confidence of like, oh, wait, now I'm actually going to try to finish against guys with this, that I can do it. And it's a completely, it opens up so much more because now you're not trying to avoid being blocked and layups and stuff.

Yeah. I became kind of obsessed with it. Like I was always obsessed. It was like, it was an obsession for me. And it was like my sophomore years when I started like, I don't know. I was in a warmup line in my, in the AU game. I just started, I was like, man, I'm getting high. Like, I'm dunking this easy. Let me, like, try to windmill or something. Then I windmilled, and all my teammates were like, oh, my gosh. And then I was like, well, let me try to go between the legs. And I went between the legs, and I was just, like, trying stuff. And I was like, man, like, I feel different. And it was kind of, I think I was just maturing. Like, I don't think I've had any armpit hair in the freshman year. You know what I'm saying? So I think I just matured and I kind of,

I kind of grew into it. And after that, I was just, my teammates probably hated me. All I was doing was like leaking out for a fast break or trying to get a lob, trying to get a duck. But once you get that kind of attention and you said like, Hey, I don't feel like a celebrity, but like, that's a celebrity in today's world. You know, like I got a couple of teenage kids staying with me and it's their first time in LA and they're like, i don't feel like a celebrity but like that's a celebrity in today's world you know like i got a couple teenage kids staying with me and you know it's their first time in la and they're like are we going to see anybody famous and then i was like i don't know like maybe we'll see some athletes or something and then they they were like whoa we wanted to see and i'm like i don't know who you're talking about like and i'm glad i don't know who the hell uh they're talking about like but they were talking about like tiktok and all these different people that have these

houses in la and all these influencers and stuff and i'm like when you think of you and i think zion as well like this was like the first version of this basketball stuff and you were just throwing down dunks but i have to imagine too there was a real downside because now you had like a target on you so how how much did that suck playing and whether it was some of the showcase stuff or just the straight high school stuff where people were like okay well now we're gonna mess with this dude yeah i definitely think everyone like comes correct when they see me and i like that you know i think um i think there definitely is a target the thing that i think bothered me for a while was like man like he's this like youtube guy like

like that's just not who i am yeah youtube followed me but my story is bigger in the effect of how many like odds i overcome and how hard i work that You too follow me, but my story is bigger in the effect of how many like odds I overcome and how hard I work. That's like, that's going to be my story in the end. Not like, Oh, he can dunk. You know, it's like, man, this guy's been counted out every step of the way. That's, that's what I want my story to be. And I think I had some frustration early on in my life when, when that was the kind of the story, you'd be in a dunker, a funny YouTube guy. But, um, I think, you know, as I keep going, I don't think that'll be a stigma for too long. Is the story true about the opposing coach?

Because you committed to Georgetown. Was it true that in high school the opposing coach was telling you you were going to be on the bench at Georgetown, and then you went off? Yeah. I feel bad because the fans gave him so much trouble just blowing up his social media account. What happened? Yeah, I think I feel bad because the fans gave him so much trouble, like just blowing up his social media account. What happened?

Yeah, I heard him say that. And, you know, it was just, I think I looked at him and I was like, you know, I said some things, but yeah. Mac, put us in the story, though. What are you bringing the ball up? And then the opposing coach says what? Like, give me the full details of this. So I was at the free throw line, and he said something,

and I just laughed, and he said, yeah, something you're going to Georgetown to sit or something like that. I think I said, I think before I shot the free throw, I said, I'm going to start. And not that I had a guaranteed starting job at the moment, but I believed in myself, and that kind of stuff gets me going. I feel like that's a mistake to say to any player, you know, like that. But I kind of got real hot after that, and I kept looking his way for sure.

So basketball, you know, you're younger. You know, there's certain ages where everybody realizes, oh, maybe I'm not going to play in the NBA. You know, like think of all your buddies, your junior high, and you're like, I'm going to play. I'm going to do this. And then you get to Georgetown. And I mean, is it fair to say maybe it didn't go as well as you thought it would go? That first year at Georgetown, we were like, oh, this might be a little bit harder. Then you transferred to Texas Tech. So what was that like for you, the realization of, I don't know. I don't know if you thought it was going to be easier, if it went harder. Take us through that part of your,

your journey of kind of figuring out where you fit in as a basketball player was still aspirations of hopefully playing in the NBA for like full time. Yeah. Definitely you hit some bumps in the road. I think you have to, to grow. I didn't realize like what my – I don't think I played the game the way I was supposed to. You know, I was probably a shooter first at 6'1", 6'2", and I realized I need to be a point guard when I left college. And, you know, I got here in South Bay and, you know, I really changed my game.

But, you know, I think the challenges were winning at georgetown uh i love i love coach ewing and the situation things happened off the court that's why i left not because of my love for coach ewing or anything like that um but texas tech was great chris beard was great um wish we went a little farther in the tournament but um i feel like that was a great situation for me so you don't get drafted what are you thinking so my um you know drew hanlon was the first person i was working out with him so he's like you know you're not getting drafted uh and i was like oh man like you sure like dang like you know what i mean like i'm talking some teams are saying maybe he's like

no like you're not getting drafted i was like i was like okay and then jeff van gundy you know he uh you know he's staying in touch with me throughout my career through patrick ewing we knew each other and he was someone that i i go to for advice a lot of times and he said you know you're not gonna get drafted he said you know you know the route you're gonna take is gonna be a grind so you might as well just go do it that's what was one of the decisions to leave college he said it's going to be a tough grind and it's going to be that either way next year or the next like you're going to have to work for it and get up there and i was like okay well let's do it and so i knew kind of what angle i was going to have to take and i just kind of focused on myself i knew there's going to be outside voices and everything but i just said

let me stay the course i know i'm destined to do this. So I just kind of stayed the course and hopefully I can keep going up. What else? I love Van Gundy. So what's that relationship been like? He's just been a really – he's a really good person who is a great basketball mind. So if I ever – you know, he'll check on me from here to there. But if I ever have any questions about, like, big decisions, i like to text him or call him and and see what's going on so um he's

just a great resource for me and i'm lucky to have him so we know it's a grind i i loved going to the g league game just because i think it was another reminder of just how absurd like the quickness you know like people can watch the nba and realize look how big these guys are and how quick they are and you're like yeah okay the g league like you play with centers and like all four guys think they're the leading scorer you know so there's a lot of like all right i gotta get mine here because i gotta get out of here and then you're watching dudes you're like I still can't believe how quick everybody is, how quick your decisions have to be. And you put up numbers.

What was your favorite part of developing the part of your game where it felt like, at least the way the game that I saw, again, it wasn't like I was watching all of them. You're going to have to figure out a way to survive as a pick and roll guy. It's just high pick and roll, high ball screen, still be a playmaker, but still have the drive shoot option. And it seems pretty straightforward with it, but it's also harder, I think, for you guys, because now there's a lot of guys that want to take turns doing that. And you sub out like almost hockey lines as well.

Like you'll sub out a ton of different guys. So it's not like you get to own the game and have a flow the way you would maybe in a traditional game. But I'm curious just from a basketball part of it it like how you feel like you're still being aggressive but also trying to find a way to develop the skills that make you an nba player yeah my whole approach this year was kind of like i was not pressed to like get shots like it was the most i've ever been in life like like being a pass first guy and then like i was like dang well it comes out dang, well, it comes out. It always comes back to me, you know.

Like, when I'm unselfish, it always comes back. I get more shots being unselfish and having that mindset and worrying about if this guy has enough shots. It's the end of myself. And then in the late game, you know, the ball would always come to me because they knew I was going to try to make the right play. And that's kind of the approach I took. And I felt like it worked out a lot better because, you know, a lot of times there's a lot of teams that everybody's trying to get there.

As you can tell, you know what I mean? But I think our team, that's why I was so lucky to go in that situation. Great people, great dudes, everybody wanted everybody to succeed. Yeah. Miles is a really good coach, like super into it. And I always, I always hear really good stuff about miles Simon. All right. Last thing I want to finish up here i always think the the the underdog white guy is always a fascinating basketball story you know because um you you go to chicago and it's like hey it's that guy that dunked on the videos like huge ovation which then which then usually will piss off other dudes we're like oh what is this like the mascot and right and then i'll notice that the g league game there are some dudes on the other team that were like there's no matter what happens i'm not i'm not letting mac leclun get the best of me

what what has that been like where it's this this adoration from the fans because of of the backstory but then also being in the crosshairs of so many other dudes that are like, there's no way I'm letting this guy. And I, you know, I see you guys kind of step to you a little bit and maybe give you a little bit more shit because of who you are in these settings.

And that's going to be kind of a weird thing. You probably experienced your entire playing career. Yeah, it's hilarious. So I go over a lot of film work and we would we would watch like we'd watch games and we see how they guard another guard who's like a he's like a first team caliber guy or like a maybe even like a you know player of the year candidate and then we see how he guards me like it's just like hilarious like the attention to detail like i didn't think it was a thing when

people say that like my dad would say that stuff because he was obsessed with all the g league games and watch him we would watch him and me and my coach would just like laugh you know like how like focused guys would be when they guarded me because of that reason but i don't see it like i don't even think of it like that i'm just like when the ball's up like you know i always tell myself pray for the bear like it's on like um i'm just ready to go and and you know focused I always tell myself, pray for the bear. Like it's on, like, um, I'm just ready to go and, and, and I'm focused on winning. So I don't even really think of anything or, you know, things just got guarded me hard. Like it's, it's done from both ways for sure. Well, it was fun to get to see that experience. And I think everybody that knows, um, how hard

it is to get there. Like, what are you going to do this off season? Like, I mean, do you have any idea of kind of where you stand? I mean, obviously it's a lot of work in front of you here too so there's no guarantees but do you have any sense or do you even allow yourself to have expectations for next year might be you know you know you hear things and you want to i think the worst thing you can you can make assumptions and i don't want to make any assumptions i'm just going to stay the course um and figure out whatever happens i feel like is supposed to happen so i'm just going to stay the course and figure out whatever happens I feel like is supposed to happen. So I'm just going to work hard and focus on growing each day and it'll all work out, I'm sure. Well, good luck to you.

It was fun. And thanks for doing this, Mac. Appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.

What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice. The email is lifeadvicerr

at gmail.com. Okay. Hey, Ryan ryan reaching out because i value your opinion um my significant other also values your words as well okay so you get a female we go female chairman in here because usually you don't hear dudes going my wife loves everything you have to say so here's her deal i'm currently dealing with a very common situation an overbearing jealous and intrusive mother-in-law uh there's been a lot of history here that I won't entirely unpack, but there is one situation I'm currently dealing with that I'd like your advice on. Uh-oh. So this is, I wonder if we're being used as a vehicle here, as the call-out, so that the significant other knows what's going on with the intrusive mom. I don't know. Whatever. That's on you. You sent the email in. I don't know.

Whatever. That's on you. You send the email in. My basically mother-in-law, mother to the guy I've been dating for three years, sees me as competition. And that simple fact has created a huge wedge in her and I's relationship. She lives in the same city as me and my significant other works for my significant other as his assistant. He owns a construction property management business and they text mostly every day.

She typically keeps her distance from me because of how she feels about me. This week is her birthday. She's requested to my significant other that he and his best friend take her fishing. Only the two of them are invited and no one else. And it would be in my boat that I purchased last year. She knows I would enjoy going and yet she purposely manipulates my exclusion. Time out here. You got a boat? Yeah, my boat. That implies that you know, obviously you're a roller and is it not your significant

other's boat? It's just your boat. Damn. Hard line. But he has privileges to use it and for his future mother-in-law to use it. This is a weird situation. Yeah, hey, can we use your future wife's boat and she can't come you're not invited yeah i would say if it doesn't work out i think you're gonna have a lot of options like oh yeah cool i'm free saturday actually you know we're just thinking the two of us sorry you know do they refuel it i mean that's

the ultimate like oh and they and they didn't put gas in it man that's that's harsh anyway okay okay i'm already bad about it yeah but i feel like she has a great chance to if it doesn't work out you know yeah she's gonna be fine what better dating profile than like loves to stay active loves dogs owns a boat okay so the significant other sees nothing wrong with this says i'm making the situation about myself and i'm being selfish so i need to get over myself well well sounds like like all right why don't you go rent a fucking rowboat then buddy all right that in itself is toxic hurtful behavior on his part but nonetheless i want your opinion on

if i'm misconstruing the situation turning into something that it isn't. Would you allow your mother to exclude your wife from plans involving you? Would you stand up for your wife or would you simply grant your mother her birthday wish and take her out without your wife there? Love your feedback. Well, I'm not the perfect guy there for the end of my hypothetical wife, mother-in-law situation, but it's always kind of a weird dynamic if you break it down like that i always think one of the weirdest realizations that you have as you get older as a kid is like you look at your mother and father as almost brother and sister and like it's family it's like no like at one point one of them was like super

into the other there's a chance that your dad you know was was annoying and then your mother was finally like okay fine or the other way around where your mom wouldn't that your dad, you know, was annoying. And then your mother was finally like, okay, fine. Or the other way around where your mom wouldn't leave your dad. And then when you start thinking about your parents as a version of a relationship that obviously was much more serious than maybe what you're dealing with as a younger person. But then as you get older, you start looking at your parents as people that were dating and romantically involved instead of just the immediacy of kind of all that being. It's almost like sometimes it doesn't feel that way when it's when you're younger and you're growing up so trying to apply some of that to the mother-in-law part of this is he an only child if that's the case yeah I mean I think that can get weird sometimes

with the protection part of it you mentioned something in the past but you didn't want to go there that you don't want to unpack which which is totally fine. But I'm just wondering if there's something that they went through as a family that has bonded them maybe beyond. And then on top of that, that she's working for his business, they're going to be texting every day, even if it wasn't his mom, if she's helping him run his business on top of everything else. There are people that have want to be with their parents all the time. There are people that have like, want to be with their parents all the time. There are people that are really good about being around their parents and people that never want to deal with their parents. Right. So I think anybody that's

depending on which, which category you fall in, sometimes you'll have a harder time understanding the closeness or lack of, ofeness um of your significant other and their parents so really what this comes down to is as you described and we're only getting your side of this thing is that it's not even so much about the mother-in-law as it is how is your future husband going to balance this because him saying hey you're making it about you when you feel like the mother-in-law has gone out of her way to exclude you and finds you as his competition if he's not seeing that that's going to be a bigger problem than the boat and the birthday and the texting and the daily stuff here so it is a bit like hey

whose side are you going to take the thing that i always think like in a healthy marriage like even if it's your mother this is somebody you're starting a family with. This is somebody who you're signing up to be with every day for the rest of your life if it works out. So the significant other should almost always win. And to me, that's the ultimate commitment. So yes, this person could have given birth to you, but you're not living with your mother the rest of your life. You're not starting a family with your mother and planning out decades in advance. If you're on the same page with the other person and you can plan, you can say, hey, eventually I'd like to do this. I think I have this many kids. I'd like to live here. This is what I'd love to pursue. But if my career doesn't work out, this is something else that I can do. I'm going to

be supportive of you. These are all the real things the cool shit in good relationships where you grow together and you share this journey together and there isn't really room i mean there's a lot of reasons why like it's it's cool when people remain friends later on but like when i hit up guys like hey you're gonna do something it's like dude it's just not really the way it works for solo like i can't just go to vegas with you for a ufc fight i'm like why like why wouldn't she want you to have? He's like, yeah, but it doesn't fucking work that way. And it's like, look, I also understand that it doesn't work this way, but I'll still throw the invites out there every now and then. So if he's not more committed to you than he is his mother moving forward, I do think that that's a real problem.

And I don't even bother addressing it with the mother-in-law. It doesn't matter. It'd be great if the mother-in-law was like, this is amazing, my son who I love, this is his person. He picked this person, he found her. This is great. It apparently isn't going to go like that. But I don't think there's any resolution to this

until you get your future husband more on the same page with how you feel about this than trying to battle with the mother-in-law. That was totally okay with taking your fucking boat out and making sure that you weren't on it. This is like, I feel like there are so many romantic comedies, rom-coms that have been this exact premise where like the guy is just way too into his mom. And there's like way too much of a connection there and it's always a red flag like it just never to me that's never cool like i you know i have a great relationship with my mom but i i would feel really awkward if i told my wife hey actually like you can't come on your boat to do this thing like and here's the thing is like my mom would want maddie my wife to to come with us too too. So there's, it's a tough situation. I think

you're right. The least of his, the least of her concerns should be the mother-in-law because there's a good chance you're never going to really win her over anyway, if this is the way it is now. But it's all about like the dude and figuring out what is the line where you're going to be able to be like, who's the priority here? Am I the priority? Or is your mom the priority? I know the mom does a lot of things for you. But like, of things for you, but if I'm this important person in your life, I kind of have to be number one. And I don't know if there's any reasoning with that. Some guys are just kind of like mama's boys like that.

And they kind of like that. They like security. That's never been my thing. But I think that's kind of a big red flag. I don't know if you do. Yeah, then I'm the ultimate green flag. But maybe if the boat were an isolated incident then i mean that's that's kind of what we're always asking here is this normal or is this a

one-off if the one-off was like hey i just want to fish with my son maybe it's something we did when we were younger and hey the boat part of it is is fucked because it's like oh and by the way we're using your fucking boat which is you know the boat owner's deal it's like, oh, and by the way, we're using your fucking boat, which is, you know, the boat owner's deal. It's like, wait, you you're only like I'm I'm only worth this to you because I've got a 51 foot sloop out back. You know, it's one thing if you like go out to dinner or a concert or whatever. Yeah, that isn't physically someone else's. And I don't think either of you're saying something absurd. Like, of course, there are going to be times where if you're very close with your mom and who have like hey i'm just hanging out my mom i'm just hanging out my dad yeah this is fine but it clearly is

a pattern it doesn't seem like the mother-in-law is into this person at all i don't know if there's anything that validates her feeling about any of this is this the same like another thing you could ask the significant other and be like if you've been with anybody else that was serious you know i don't know some people don't love talking about that either was this also the case yeah because then sometimes it would be that yeah look i don't know how honest it would be you know because what if he's like yeah actually she loved jessica oh then yeah then they're right yeah then you're getting the answer you're like oh whatever like her boat was awesome all right just think about another context like imagine if she had like a lake house or something and you're like yeah my mom and i are going to the lake house for the weekend like you're not

like it's just insane it's an it's an insane move to me and did she mention at all like the dad in the situation is he around so you met you you kind of mentioned like was there some sort of thing that they went through maybe you know maybe there was some trauma earlier and they're really close because of that. And you kind of have to respect that. I don't know. We don't know the full details of the situation. But at some point, like, you know, you have to you got to tell this dude, he's got to become his own man.

Like, you know, if you want to marry me or be with me or whatever, use my boat consistently like this is going to fly. Yeah. Right. OK, next one. Is this stealing? Hope you guys provide some insight in my situation. About six foot. 190. Top

power lifter in my high school. He attached a bunch of stuff. Nowadays, I just work out enough to maintain a two-plate bench and keep the love handles looking more like love knobs. I've gotten a routine that probably should be considered sus.

When purchasing tickets to NBA games, I peruse local ticket groups on Facebook until I find desperate game day sellers who will sell their tickets for dirt cheap. I scoop up these cheapies with the intention of just needing to get in the door. Once I arrive at the arena, I hop on the home team's official ticket selling page

and look for seats that haven't sold that are way better than the ones I bought. Obviously knowing if they're still showing for sale, there won't be anyone sitting there. I decided where I want to sit. Given the options, I make my way to the entrance of that section. They're usually ushers present, but when mass amounts of people are flooding in just before tip off, they can't check everyone's tickets. So it's easy to sneak on by even if they, if they even care in the first place uh once in that seat it's game on let's be real the game is seen completely different 10 rows from the court versus up in the corner nosebleeds the problem my girlfriend considers this stealing

whereas i just consider it a loophole or balling on a budget here comes the part where i try to justify these tactics i pad the team's bottom line by paying premium for other things, apparel, concessions, parking, my attention, taxes for their arena. Also, you've done some massive justification for this. Also, part of this behavior stems from

being burned by buying full price tickets in the past only to show up to find out that so-and-so player isn't playing for any number of bullshit reasons. Shifting the power back to the people. Between that and the audacity of management to raise prices consistently

regardless of the product put on the court or the field, it doesn't feel wrong to do what I do. Time for the fans to take back some power. Okay, maybe not, but I'm sure you can at least understand where I'm coming from. I would appreciate your viewpoints. Rip me to shreds if you want. I'm still going to listen to the pod. P.S.

I attached some of the views I've had. None of these cost more than $25 a ticket with my method. Well, you just exposed your method here a little bit. I have, I'm going to tell you right now, I have no problem with this whatsoever. Okay? Zero. Your girlfriend, dump her. No.

But just her saying this. Unless she has a boat. Yeah. Unless she's got a boat that you can use with your, dump her. No, but just her saying this is stealing. Yeah, unless she's got a boat that you can use with your mom without her. I don't think this is stealing at all. I think it'd almost be elitist to have a problem with this. You have a system. I think the only thing is, as somebody that's been on both sides of this, I used to move up all the time at Fenway when I didn't have

any money because back then, before Fenway was Pink Hats and World Championships and Stupid Songs inside the park all the time. I guess they're doing the Blur thing now after Strikeouts. I don't know exactly when that started because I don't think I've been to Fenway in a little while. Wait, Blur Song 2?

Yeah. Oh, interesting. I'm not sure. I'm getting reports from opening day from my buddies that were there and i'm not super original i'm not i'm not loving it if that's true i gotta i gotta do some more research we're gonna get it on that but uh i i'm not gonna be a hypocrite here and say oh you shouldn't do that because they're and i also i don't have a reason to say this is what this is like some philosophical thing i'm sure there's some people listening to me. Hey, you buy your ticket, whatever. There are weird times where you just I mean, I guess I'm sliding another bartender analogy in here.

But like there used to be always this dilemma with depending on who you work with, where you worked at. And yeah, I'm going to hook up my buddies here. I'm going to do a couple, you know, like I wouldn't be like, hey, here's free rounds left and right. But I'll figure out a way to take care of you guys in a couple of rounds or whatever. And then there would be this philosophical thing. There's this woman woman bartender that I work with and she'd be like, it's not your booze to give away. You don't own the booze. It's not your right. Like, yeah, that's technically true, but it's also not really what we do here. Like this is, it's, I can't tell you that you're wrong, but that's not really how anybody looks at this. And we're

not at a Chili's. Okay. So, although I don't know what Chili's does wrong, but that's not really how anybody looks at this. And we're not into Chili's. Okay. So, although I don't know what Chili's does. I'm sure there's a couple of people throwing some sidecars down, you know, down the low, a couple of Tullamore dues for the crew in the corner. Bristol Chili's, that place you get here sometimes. Yeah, right. Here's some chips. Nobody's looking.

So, I. Dump a couple Coronas in a margarita call it a night. Yeah, I don't know. The Coronas they a margarita call it a night. Yeah, I don't know. The Coronas may have inventory on, but I don't. I think what you've done is you figured out something here. That's a next level is that you wait until the last minute. By the way, the people that are selling their tickets last minute, they already know what agreement they're into. They're on some ticket group going.

I'm hoping to get anything to cover anything and you're probably buying from somebody who's bulked up and bought so many tickets in the first place that they've changed the market although the secondary ticket market will argue at least we provide you a service to be able to get into anything that you ever want to go to um which is also a weird dynamic of teams being like wait we're supposed to let secondary ticket markets just go ahead and sell our product for a greater profit than we're allowed to because of reasons. And then that's why all the things leagues and specific teams partnered with all these secondary ticket merchants anyway. So I don't know that anybody's feeling bad for that part of, of the transaction. And then once you're in there and you figured out to look at which tickets are still available and they're going to be open. I don't have any problem with this, but she just may be back to the free drink analogy.

She may be just so philosophically opposed to this. She's just not going to see it. We are all on your side. I'd imagine you'd have 90% of the people on your side here. I think the only time that you argue against this is if you're a person that always has those nice seats. And for whatever reason, because you're in the club out back,

you know, the, the hat you ever noticed, like in the really good arenas, because you're in the club out back, you know, you never notice like in the really good arenas, actually most arenas now at this point, halftime, second half starts and all the best seats are still empty because they're hanging out in these really cool spots in the arena having drinks

and they're late to get back to it. They're not grinding. They're not taking notes. They're not charting plays, obviously, but they're having drinks and they're just wandering back in when it's convenient for them. I think when those seats are taken and it's clear that it's like, yeah, I just haven't been back to my seat. And then you show up and the dude gives you a hard time because you weren't

your seat at the right time. That's when you're like, Hey, fuck off. Like you didn't buy the seat. You don't get to just take it because I left. And then I was late getting back to it, but that's not even close to what you're doing here. So Rudyuti is this not the definition of a victimless crime like no one's hurt here those tickets weren't going to be sold so it's not like you're you're scheming you're scamming like the team and honestly like the team if you're sitting like a lower bowl they should probably want that more filled if it's on tv to make it look like it's not empty like I I don't think anyone is actually wronged here. So, yeah, that's like the Yankee Stadium thing with those ridiculous Delta seats.

And they're empty all the time because they're so expensive. And then you go, I don't know if they change. I don't know if they change that or not. I don't remember from watching the most exciting team in baseball, the Toronto Blue Jays, play Yankee Stadium to start the season. But go ahead. I mean, I used to when this was probably 10 years ago now, but when I was in D.C. and they had just opened Nationalist Park, they'd sell a $5 ticket.

It was nosebleeds. And no one would go because they were terrible at that time. And I sat in every different part of that entire ballpark. And honestly, it was pretty awesome. And again, that's what I, in my own head, I'm like, I'm not stealing from anyone. I'm not taking anyone's seat. I'm not taking money money I'm still giving

money to the team in some way shape or form you know it's five bucks and like do they not want me to go like I could just not go and spend the five bucks and never be at a stadium or never be at a Nats game so again this is the definition of a victimless crime you should not be you should not be weird about this and I think honestly you have to have a conversation your girlfriend seems like

too much of a goody two-shoes like what who why is she pro owner I don't understand like what her stance is in the situation. I don't understand like why she's like, no, you need to pay the $200 to sit in that actual seat because, you know, the NBA, the profits, but these guys are already making millions of dollars anyway, man, you do you. And honestly, I think you find a pretty cool scheme. Like that's, I hadn't thought about that to look at the, look at the, what's still available, what's available. Cause then, you know, and it's all about what the bounce or what the, you know, the attendance do's still available. What's available, because then you know. And it's all about what the attendance do and if they check you or not.

If you have a system in place that allows you to do it, then that's on you, man. That's smart. I respect it. I'll take it one step further. When I was living in Boston and I would go to Fenway all the time just because I was like, I'm just going to go to Fenway. I mean, it was a lifelong dream. I'm working in Boston. I'm on the air.

I'm like, I can't believe I get to talk about my favorite team ever. And now I can go to Fenway whenever I want. And it was a little less strict then, but it was starting to get to the point where you just couldn't even find a seat in the place. And I would go up to this one section. The usher was just, I mean, legendary older guy and I'd give him five bucks and he would be telling me like, he would give me like, Hey, that guy's not going to be here tonight. And I would sit in the seat. I did it for like 40 games. Every time I just give up.

Honestly, like I didn't have any money. I was in. I hated sitting in the press box. I hated it. The press box at Fenway was terrible. And, you know, if you were a guy like me, the lowest of lows, and I'm not really, you know,

I'm not like covering the game. Whatever, you know, I didn't want to sit in the press box anyway. All right. Thanks to Kyle and Steve producing this podcast. Ring your Spotify. Please subscribe. I'll be back on Thursday with Bill on Sundays. Outro Music