The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Is Jimmy Butler the Most Universally Approved Star? Plus, Bob Ryan and a Live Show Announcement!

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

Russillo shares his thoughts on the Heat's Game 1 road victory over the Celtics, Jayson Tatum's struggles, and Jimmy Butler's incredible playoff transformation (1:10). Then Ryen talks with legendary columnist Bob Ryan about Celtics-Heat, HC Joe Mazzulla, what makes Erik Spoelstra a great coach, Lakers-Nuggets, the brilliance of Nikola Jokic, and more (17:27). Finally Ryen recaps his trip to Chicago (39:46), before answering some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (56:07). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Bob Ryan Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

on today's podcast i'll talk about miami's win in boston tatum's fourth quarter what really happened and a question about jimmy or an observation that i don't know that we've really talked about before bob ryan will talk some playoffs with us as well. We've got life advice, a little travel pod, cheeseburger style, I'm not sure. All right, but we do have this announcement. We're headed back to the East Coast for a live show in New York City right before the NBA draft. We'll be at the Gramercy Theater on Tuesday, June 20th,

and you can grab your tickets now at universe.com slash Rosillo23. That's universe.com slash Rosillo 23. That's universe.com slash Rosillo 23. Come on out. We'll preview the draft. That's only going to be a couple days away. We've got a great guest lined up. And of course, we're going to do some live life advice.

Again, Gramercy Theater in New York City on Tuesday, June 20th. You can get your tickets at universe.com slash Rosillo23. Grab your tickets while they are available. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no.

A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping? Total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Miami Heat going to Boston and take down the Celtics game one up in the series. What else is new? The Heat have now won game one openers on the road in three series in a row at Milwaukee, at New York, at Boston. They're the fifth team to ever do it in NBA history. The 99 Knicks, who had a much different situation

with a shortened season. We've been over that before. They were only six games behind the one seed loss to the Spurs in the finals. And then the 81 Rockets, if you go back and look at how weird that was for the Rockets for a couple years, and then they lost in the finals. So Miami continues to do the impossible. And yes, I picked Boston. I picked Boston because I figured they would slowly figure this out,

and I just think the team is better. And Miami is challenging all of those things. They continue to challenge it. So I'm going to do a bunch of Jimmy Butler stuff here at the end and present a theory on Jimmy Butler that feels almost impossible to do that he's accomplishing. He's doing something right now that I actually think is impossible. Before we do that, I want to run through the fourth quarter for Jason Tatum.

It was Miami shooting. It was a shot making. I even thought there were some stretches defensively where it looked like Boston was going to be fine in the second quarter when Boston went on a little bit of a lead. I was like, okay, this is normal. And then Miami scores 46 points in the third quarter. And while it was happening, because it felt like it happened with such of a flow, and there was no Missoula timeout, which people are obviously very upset about, which I would agree with on that one. At some point, just break it up. 46 points in a quarter for the Heat is a playoff record. And as it was happening, you were like, wait, how many did they score?

And then you go back, you're like, look real quick. I also, by the way, had a weird situation at the hotel room where, of course, my TV went out on a few channels, and one of those channels was TNT. So I had to watch it on the feed because I couldn't log in somehow. So I watched the all, not all 22, but I watched the all 10. So I'm behind the basket watching. And in a way, it actually gives you some good perspective on how teams do stuff and how they want to attack.

There's all gnat sound, although when Marcus Smart looks like he's injured and going to the tunnel, they kept the camera on Marcus Smart and I missed like three possessions. So that was awesome. But part of the talking points for this morning, Tatum, no field goal attempts in the fourth quarter. Now, when you hear that, you think a lot of things, right? Especially if you didn't watch the game. You're like, wait, this dude? I thought we just got through this. Remember the one for 24 combined first half start against Philadelphia in games, what was it? Four, five, and six? That's impossible. One for 24? How do you do that? He closes out Philadelphia in game six with hot shooting, then carries it over and has the best score in

game seven in playoff history so you're like okay things feel good then you hear that right and if you weren't watching closely and there's things that I missed depending on what I'm looking for but if you weren't watching closely you may go like wait Tatum had zero field goal attempts in the fourth quarter that seems bad was he not up for? Was the Rosillo guy a little more hardened? Is he going to crush him for it? Because that happens all the time. So I went back and looked at it again. And guess what? That's a little misleading. Now, the fourth quarter was bad and he was bad, but we'll get to it. All right. 806, he checks back in. It's 108-100. They push it and transition off a miss. Tatum's behind the play.

White pulls a three. Tatum wasn't even in the possession. That makes it 108-103. At 110-103, Brown misses a three. Tatum was on the other side, not in the play. Next possession, Jalen Brown, an early turnover. It was so early into the shot clock that Tatum was never going to have the ball. So there's three plays there where he doesn't look like he's involved in the play

after he's subbed back in, but two of them, he was just never going to be in the play to begin with. All right, 1-12, to make it 1-12, 1-05, they were running this action on the left side where Tatum was setting a screen for smart, and they were hoping to get something off of that, and they didn didn't and then the announcers are even starting to talk about it because I watched it again this morning but at this point Tatum actually was basically just like look I need the ball drives get free throws see that's the thing with field goal attempts they

don't count when you're fouled and you go ahead and take free throws. So that makes it 112-105. Then Tatum loses the basketball. Jalen Brown recovers the loose ball like a fumble in the paint. They score a layup. It's now 114-107 Miami. Next possession, Tatum goes quick baseline drive, gets fouled, gets free throws again. So he's actually attacking a little bit more than the people today would tell you that

he wasn't doing anything in the fourth quarter. That makes it 114-109. Tatum sets a ball screen, but he doesn't really set it on this one for Smart. He slips it to go one-on-one against Caleb Martin, but then Smart passes it over to Brown, who misses a three.

So on that one, you could say, hey, they should have gotten it to him. Really, the summary that I'm going to get to here is there's only a couple of possessions where you're like, okay, you should have gotten it to him there, and then it would have felt like you were completely forcing the issue to him in the fourth quarter. All right, Jalen drives hard, passes it out to Horford. Horford misses a three. Tatum is on the other side. There's an offensive rebound. Horford gets it again, throws it to Tatum, but it's an awful pass. And this is where Jimmy Butler turns into Ed Reed and starts picking off all these passes in the middle of the floor. You want to know why? Butler is smart and he's good and he's playing the passing lanes.

Collectively, from this point on, the Celtics passing was atrocious. The next play for Boston, it's still 114-109. I thought this was the play of the game. Tatum gets switched on to Max Struess. Struess has got him one-on-one at the top of the key, and Struess locked him up on this possession. Tatum couldn't get by him, couldn't get free for a three, which is very rare. I mean, Tatum's very, we just had Larry Nance Jr. on about this one. Like if Tatum wants to get that separation because he's comfortable stepping back or fading away even leaning back a little

on threes it's just a really tough shot to deal with and Struis didn't give him a driving angle, stayed upright stayed in front of him, didn't foul didn't reach and then still got to the point where Tatum didn't really know how he wanted to get the shot off so I guess what Tatum does theme here, awful pass to the point where Tatum didn't really know how he wanted to get the shot off. So guess what Tatum does?

Theme here, awful pass to the middle of the floor for Jalen Brown, stolen by Jimmy Butler. All right. At this point, Jimmy Butler's going to be like, hey, do these guys suck? What's going on here? It's 114-108. Brogdon drives, gets free throws. It's 114-109. Excuse me.

Brogdon makes one or two free throws. so it's still a four-point game. Okay, so 117-110. Tatum decides he's going to start picking up the aggression here, but he gets stuck on the left side. The play was absolute for him, and he travels. He just travels on the baseline.

All right? That's not a lack of shooting. That's just a bad turnover. Brogdon drives. Next possession. Al Horford, offensive rebound. Kicks it out to Tatum. Tatum travels again.

Didn't know what he wanted to do. He was behind the three-point line. Kind of thought he wanted to take a three. Decided to change his mind. He lifted both feet. I looked at it again this morning. Both feet were off the ground. It's a travel. It's the right call. It's a bad turnover. He lifted both feet. I looked at it again this morning. Both feet were off the ground. It's a travel.

It's the right call. It's a bad turnover. Another one for him. Smart layup makes it 1-12-1, 1-20, 1-12 Miami. Then Tatum goes to drive versus three guys. Two collapse on him.

He gets fouled. I thought it was a bad foul call. More free throws. Kind of a bailout. Hits two more free throws. So the box score says zero field goal attempts in the fourth quarter for Tatum. What really happened here was the six free throws, two travels that were terrible.

He had a bad pass to Butler, so it's kind of three turnovers there. He also lost the ball that was recovered by Jalen Brown in the layup, so you could argue it's four turnovers. Horford was trying to pass back to him one. That was another turnover. So this wasn't really about him being out of the offense. It's actually worse. He was in the offense more than people realize. He just was really bad. So let's talk about turnover rates. Of the 16 playoff teams, the Celtics are the fourth worst in turnover rate in the fourth quarter. That is bad. Let's look at Tatum and Jalen Brown in the fourth quarter. Turnover ratio out of 100 possessions. Tatum's at 12.2, Jalen Brown's at 13.5. Actually not terrible, even though the team collectively is turning the ball over a lot. Even though the team collectively is turning the ball over a lot.

We saw it against Atlanta. We saw it against Philly. And you saw it last night. If Miami is going to shoot the way they shot, and Butler's going to have those moments, and you're going to turn the ball over for them and make it that easy, you're going to lose this series, and Miami's going to be playing for an NBA title.

So as I look at the Jalen and Tatum fourth quarter turnover rates, although not like alarming off the charts bad, there's other really good players that have some that are worse that are other players that are better than them. It's not great. It's not the end of the world. The difference here though, is Jimmy Butler in the playoffs. This is a staggering number. His turnover ratio per 100 possessions is 4%. Four times out of 100, he's turning the basketball over. That is taking care of the ball. Let's stay on Jimmy Butler and ask a big question here.

All right, so if we keep with some of the numbers here, per 100 possessions for his team during the regular season, Butler's averaging 34 points. In the playoffs, it's over 39 points. That's fourth of any player in the playoffs right now.

Behind Jokic, he's good. Anthony Edwards, love him. And Booker, who was like off the charts, all right. That's fourth of any player in the playoffs right now behind Jokic. He's good. Anthony Edwards, love him and Booker who was like off the charts. All right. Butler's fourth. And that's after actually not making any threes in the second round, which I was like, is he kind of spent maybe sneaky tired a little bit? Nope. His usage rate in the regular season hovers around 25 in the playoffs. It's like 31, which is a. When you're north of 30, that's a high usage percentage. And yet he becomes more efficient. That's not supposed to happen. That's like the Steph Curry stuff early on where it's like,

okay, well, look, his shooting numbers are absurd, but if he has more volume, eventually he's going to fall off a little bit. And then Curry had this year where it's like he actually became more efficient with even more volume, which is a really special neighborhood to be in. And Butler is actually doing it during the playoffs. Like, I don't like the MJ stuff for anyone, but what he did last night, it's like, if you're not going to let anyone have any moment that's compared to what Jordan would do during these playoff games where he would just take over. Again, I think the steals Celtics made up really easy for him,

but he's also smart enough to be in the passing lane already covered. If he's not allowed to at least have, have the picture in picture, 1980s high school yearbook silhouette thing with Jordan in the background. And then Butler sweaty in the, in the foreground, like then who is? Again, I'm not calling him Jordan,

but this is some real Jordan shit we're seeing here because this is what he did, kids, if you go back and watch it. If you looked at the Heat shot chart, put it side by side with Boston, you'd think, you'd be like, all right, don't give me the score. Here are the shot charts. Look at Boston. Look at Miami's. Who won?

You'd be like, oh, Boston. And they didn't because this is what's happening here michael pina of the ringer great tweet last night um miami shot quality around 45 percent right tracking data how open are you how many were contested what kind of shots were you actually taking all that kind of stuff like their shot quality wasn't off the charts last night. It was less than 45%. The problem for the Celtics is the effective field goal percentage was like 63%. So it was plus 18 better than like what you would have thought. And the crazy thing is they already outdid that in game one against Milwaukee.

So like some real stuff's happening here as they continue to win on the road. But I want to finish with this. Well, let me finish with this also. It's game one. It's game one. It's game one. I mean, look, we saw the Clippers win game one against Phoenix. We saw the Warriors lose game one against Sacramento.

I actually really was impressed with L.A LA hanging in that game one in Denver, to be honest with you, because it started really bad. And even though I think every team kind of makes up some space in a basketball game, I don't think there's many teams that would have responded as well as the Lakers did in Denver, considering how that game started. So there's, look, there's other teams that have won game one that ended up going ahead and winning the series. Again, Miami is a perfect example of that.

But think about who Butler's becoming. He is a player without rings becoming way more popular than players with rings. He is somebody that somehow is in a different category. And this isn't a knock. It's not a criticism. It's a compliment because of how rare it is. Jimmy Butler doesn't get shit that guys with rings get. I didn't even think that was possible until I started thinking about it this morning. There's more dudes dogging Kevin Durant with two rings than I get by than there would ever be for Jimmy Butler. And that's the Jimmy

Butler category. I don't think there's younger players Butler category. I don't think there's younger players, fine. I don't think there's any player that's been around as long as Jimmy Butler and has one finals appearance where I don't really think they had much of a chance to beat the Lakers a few years ago. And it's all okay because that's how special it is and how great this Miami story is considering how we look at their roster, certainly how I look at their roster, and I think how non-Heat fans look at their roster. To have this high of approval rating without the history that we demand of the other stars is a pretty remarkable feat on top of everything else he's doing every night. This NBA Playoffs, you can get in on the action right from the first tip with FanDuel.

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Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit Fanduel.com forward slash RG. Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Virginia. 1-800-NEXTSTEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona. 1-800-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut. 1-800-9WITHIT, Indiana. 1-800-522-4700 or visit ksgamblinghelp.com in kansas 1-877-770 stop in louisiana call 1-800-327-5050 or visit mahelpline.org forward slash prom gambling in massachusetts visit mdgamblinghelp.org in maryland 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY to 467-389 in New York, 1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming, or visit 1-800-GAMBLER.net in West Virginia. The legendary Bob Ryan joins us. We're going to talk some basketball, but I think we'll start in his hometown last night. What did you make of the start of this series, Miami's win in Boston, Game 1?

hometown last night. What did you make of the start of this series, Miami's win in Boston, game one? Before the season started, I said that this team, though talented, was annoying. They have lapses. And now there's no reason to change that.

It's been the same scenario all year and through the playoffs. I'm not panicking or giving up. This is who they are. They have these lapses. And that's an unforgivable third period. Give up 46 points, period. That's just not laudable. It's awful.

How about the two last third periods? They go from 33 to 10 up to 46, 25 down. And I'm saying that they're going to make their fans work for this. This is just their nature. And obviously, it's not going to change. They may stumble their way to a 2023 championship, but it won't be pretty. What do you think that is? What do you think that is? How do you think that happens? I don't know. I mean, you think how many times do they have to learn their lesson?

This team has a history over the last couple of years of colossal lead blowing and let down games. And now coming off that high on Sunday and the way they played defense in that third quarter, you'd think they would stand effectively against a tough-minded team such as the Heat, who they publicly profess to have respect for. But I don't know. the coaching issue, which I have tried to downplay, but which last night in that third quarter, to not call one time out in that period is, well, it's not forgivable. And I'd like to know where the assistants are to say, Joe, Joe, wake up. With Brad running down from the stands and saying, hey, hey, you got to call a timeout. The spirit of red must be going out of its mind up there in the great cigar smoker's home in the sky. Come on, Joe, what is that all about?

And now I am concerned. And 24 hours ago, I wouldn't have expressed this concern, but that really bothered me. Where are you with Missoula? Because I know your buddy Simmons here. I don't know. I think it's almost like the job. If you're passionate about this team,

you're going to find things that you have problems with. But you've seen it now for a year. What do you think? I wanted to give him the benefit. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt on the, for one very simple reason, Brad Stevens hired him. Brad Stevens is no dummy. Brad Stevens had faith in this guy. Brad Stevens was willing to turn the keys of the car over to this guy. And, and, and, and that I'm, I'm I'm impressed with that. And there's been ups and downs this year, but I thought that things were getting better. And certainly I felt good after Sunday. And this timeout thing, this quirk of his, we thought that he had gotten out of that. That was a big issue in the beginning of the season. And then as time went on, he actually started to call some more conventional times out. But this thing,

this is bothersome, but they want to play for him supposedly. We know that Jason Tatum is his biggest booster and so forth. I know he's not a dumb guy. I mean, obviously, there's a reason for why he's going

at age 34 up the ranks so quickly. But still, certainly, they're going to be outcoached in this series. But then again, almost anybody in the left is going to be outcoached by Eric Smolstra. We accepted that. And once again, one thing here, though, and we're talking about Joe, I understand. I won't jump ahead of the game, so I'll stop right here.

Okay. All right. Let's go to the heat side I have something to say but I'm waiting to get asked well it's simply we people we and I'm guilty at times to expect too much out of any team at any time in other words there are going to be lapses

nobody's perfect no one has ever swept their way through the NBA through the finals. One team came close. The faux-faux 83 Sixers of Moses Malone had the greatest rampage through the finals. You're going to lose games. You're going to, as a rule, you're not going to sweep very often. They're not common, and they're certainly not common deep into the playoffs.

Accept that. There's going to be ups and downs, and in the end, you hope that the better team wins if it's all fair and square, and that's fine. And the Celtics still have plenty of time, obviously, to dig out from the hole. They're getting used to this. They went through this kind of scenario last year.

They went through it in the Philadelphia series, losing game one. And they certainly can rebound and they can win anywhere. We know they can win in Miami. They can win in Mars. They can win anywhere. And that's fine. But why they put their fans to this and their coach and their owner and their, I don't know. That third quarter is just not forgivable.

Okay, let's talk about the Heat side of this because the Butler story, I would say, with Jokic, I mean, there's a couple other things we could pick from, but he is building towards being the story of the playoffs. And I know anytime there's some of the revered names come up, including one guy with the initials MJ here, my first instinct is to recoil and be like, wait, you can't do that.

But what he's doing, what he's doing in these moments and taking over some of this stuff, I think they made the steals kind of easy for him last night, but there's just not many people that actually do this, and it's just a different profile because throughout the regular season, he's never talked about as one of the five best players

in the league. And yet here he is again, where he's taking over the way a Jordan would take over these playoff games. Like Jordan didn't have some other version of this that was even beyond like what Butler is doing is all time stuff. You are correct. It's an unusual phenomenon. And it's not like when Michael,

it's not like Cody, it's not like Larry, it's not like magic. It's not like Cody. It's not like Larry. It's not like Magic. This is his own identity. It's his own shtick, his own M.O. Only he knows why this happens, or maybe he doesn't even know why it happens. He just is himself.

It's who he is. He's cold-blooded, and he's circumspect, and he rises to this occasion continually. And you're right. He's not discussed in the upper F-serial line during the season. There's no reason to put him there. And then when this playoff thing comes, he becomes this other creature. You know, Robert Ory, you know, was a tremendous playoff player. And at this level, he was different.

But certainly, you know, we know he's the man with the many wings and clutch baskets and big plays and and uh um he wasn't in february you weren't talking about whatever he sure were in april and may and that's in here with jimmy butler okay do you have despite uh your upbringing do you have a picture of spolstra in your house somewhere no i don't i have an image in my mind, of course, but no, I do not. I don't have. I did not know of Eric Spolstra

until he got the job. Maybe vaguely I knew of some assistant there, but I doubt it. I probably learned about him the same day that everyone else did when he got hired by Pat Riley. What do you think makes a great coach?

I mean, he clearly is the guy. He's the best in the business he's doing it again he's proving it because i still can't get past the roster well the number one thing is are they gonna buy what you're selling you gotta have something to sell and and they're gonna buy it and and and and and how do you get them to buy it uh and and that's that's the trick and and and about this? Casey Jones was exhibit A. He was not an X and O guy. He was a guy who knew how to win games and somehow knew how to appeal to jocks in a way that not everybody could.

But certainly, you never worry about the X's and O's. So there's different attributes. But in the end, can you get them to buy what you're selling? Yeah, that's a good one because the Casey Jones part of it felt more like managing. Like, hey, the team's awesome. It's fine. And it can feel a little insulting at times to be like, don't break it. You know, don't break the thing that you have, but he was, he was the perfect guy for the 85, 86 Celtics who were deep with veterans,

stars, hall of famers, uh, uh, you know, any button that button he pushed was, was, was, uh, you know, rewarded the next year when they were not deep, when they had all kinds of injury problems and they needed a quote unquote real coach, he couldn't, he, he, he was out of his element. And he was never the same again as he was in 85, 86. And, you know, he wasn't, that wasn't, but he was the perfect guy to stay out of the way and just get them to tell him what time the bus leave in 85, 86. But he was not the perfect guy for a team afterward. That's the case. I don't want to go picking on pro cases, he was a rarity that you could succeed

while being as technically uninterested and as unknowledgeable about the league as he was. You can't believe the stuff he didn't know about who the players were. Wait a minute, really? If you gave,

I used to say, if you gave every coach in the league a yellow legal pen and said you have a minute or two, two minutes, just name as many players in the league as you can. He'd finish last. But when a game started, they wanted to play for him for his guys those guys that

particular group uh and the way he acted day in day out you know what in his manner uh and and and and the didn't put a lot of demands on them and defined they were happy to go through the wall for him but uh trust me uh he followed, I followed the most anal guy ever, Bill Fitch. He knew everybody. He knew not only every player in the league, he knew where we were at high school, where we were at the college,

what their kids' names were, who their coaches were. He knew everything. And I got used to that. And then suddenly it was KC, who was, you know, I think we're playing tomorrow night at 7.30. Who are we playing?

Well, when you have that team, I think I can understand it. I can understand it a little bit. Who is your least favorite coach? You know, I didn't dislike any of them. I mean, dislike personally, there's no reason to dislike any of them, whether

it was even Bob McKinnon. Chris Ford, I loved Chris Ford as a person. I would say he was like your next-door neighbor who just happened to be the coach of the Boston Celtics. As normal a human being as a coach can be in professional sports, I thought was Chris Ford.

Of course, I love Doc. I'm an unrequited Doc syncopan. I love Doc. And, you know, I didn't have any friction personally with any coaches of the Celtics. And I just, Casey was interesting. I like Casey. You could not like the man. But it was just phenomenal.

His style was just so specific to him. Nobody else could pull it off. Okay. How much joy do you have watching Nikola Jokic? Where would he be on your joy rankings for Bob Ryan all the time? On a 1 to 10? About a

9. No, but who would be ahead of him? Like, I can't... Well, I mean, obviously, I'm a Larry guy. I mean, I'm not going to him? Like, I can't. Well, I mean, obviously, I'm a Larry guy. I mean, I'm not going to lie. Obviously, I love Larry. You know, I did a book with Larry. I feel close to Larry now, but certainly I feel that he's somebody I know,

and I love watching him play. And I always put it this way. When he came along, which was 10 years into my career of covering the NBA, 10 years in, it was as if I had signed up for an art course, but I wasn't sure who the professor was. I just knew I wanted that course. And then when the professor walked into the first day of class, it was Michelangelo. And that's the way I feel about Larry bird walking into my basketball life in 1979 because all the things i loved were encompassed in this one man about how to play this game and see this game and and and it was uh it was you know it was love it it was romance at first sight for me as basketball and and never and never abated you know and uh i'm just so happy

that he entered my basketball life as well as my personal life. And he'll always be my favorite guy to cover on the court as opposed to my favorite overall total package of playing and personality and curiosity and wonder and all that. And that's Dave Cowens. There's never been anything like Dave Cowens for a total package of somebody to cover. But in terms of the basketball itself, it's Larry Bird. But Jokic is, I'm like, you know, he sees the floor. He's team-oriented. The stuff he does, I mean, the three-pointers that he casually tosses in,

I'm not just talking about the one that beat the buzzer. They have kind of just ridiculous, but just in general terms. And he's an absolute pleasure to watch. If you love basketball, you have to love Jokic, unless he's, you know, beaten up on your team. I have another Jokic and some Lakers follow-ups here, but I don't know that I've ever asked you about this. I think I always ask you about a Larry Bird story,

but I read Drive years after it came out. Again, the story of my life that Bob wrote with Larry Bird came out, what, 1990? 88, yeah. 88, okay. I guess I got the reprint date here. Well, that's good. Okay, so how do you pitch the book idea that everybody wants to do? Now, you could, I'll just make some assumptions here. One is you can't ask Larry right away, but then you also have to kind of outflank other people.

You have to work on building that relationship so he eventually picks you. Then he has to pick you to have it be the right time. Can you take us through all the pieces of knowing how to work the relationship enough to know when it's the right time while also not worrying about somebody else getting in front of you i'll start with the with the kind of the semi-conclusion which is how it came and when it came about which was at the all-star game in chicago in in 1987 and and we were uh at at a gathering uh and he he to me, I'm ready to do a book. He went, I want you to do it. Period. Simple as that. And I'd like you to do it. And that, that, that there was no negotiation. There was no me begging Larry to be my dude, be the man. He came to me and said, I want you.

And I think it was logical. I had the best relationship with Larry. The first time I ever talked to Larry was in the summer of 79 after he had signed. And it was a story for Us Magazine. And the interview was going to take place at Bob Wolf's house, which was this agent who lived around the corner from Larry. Larry had, truly, Larry bought a house right around the corner from his agent. And it was laying down the groundwork. You know, yeah, it was laying down the groundwork. You know, I'm not going to be, I'm going to keep my house sacred. But, you know, anyway, so we did the interview. And, well, I was covering the team his rookie year.

And, you know, interaction, this is the old days when you really had access. You went to practice every day. You went in the locker room before an hour and a half before. You just sat around and shoot the breeze. You rode on the buses with them. You went on the planes with them. You went out to dinner with them. You went out drinking with them.

All those things happened. them you went out drinking with them all those things happen and uh and and he uh uh actually told people at the end of the of the uh first year uh that bob ryan he could be a coach well that's crazy of course i i did coach at some really good time but but uh you know we we hit it off he respected my basketball intelligence i guess or curiosity and curiosity and love. And we just hit it off. And so if anybody was going to do a bird book, frankly, in 1987, it should have been me, and it was. Okay. All right. There's the answer that I wanted. All right. So let's get back to the West then.

I've argued probably the last two years when talking about Luca that if I need a bucket, he might be my first pick of anyone in the entire league. Like if I need ball in the hands, give me a good look. It might be him. And then I started thinking about it, watching Jokic again, because I love that game one. I actually feel good about LA even after game one, because I was like, you know what? They came back. Most teams would have gotten destroyed with the way that game started. i think there was actually some positives in there for the lakers um but now i'm watching yokich going like am i arguing semantics if i say i have one possession so it's not getting me a bucket but i need the most out of this possession which ultimately ultimately

means then yokich is still the best option of anyone in league if it if you have to maximize the possession i actually don't think there's anyone better than Jokic in basketball right now. Well, it's interesting the comparison on how they go about it and don't you. And, you know, so they turn at their own pace, which is 45.

It's not 33 and a third for those people who know what that means. It's a third for those people who know what that means. It's not 78 for those people who know what that means. It's 45, and they never change. They never deviate. And they can each go anywhere they want to go when they want to go, even though they don't appear to be very quick. I'm not sure. That's interesting.

I never thought about it, either one of them, in terms of that necessarily. I still would think that they can curry because he can get any shot off. He wants, cause he could create space. Always. He can always create space for himself, no matter where he is. And,

and plus he can go to the basket, but it's just, I just, I can tell you the Celtics will tell you that Donchik is beating him a less second chance more than once. And, and certainly Joe gets, can get a shot, but then

he can be guarded. You saw Anthony Davis block that shot beautifully the other day. There's a few people that could deter him a little bit. But for the most part, you'd be pretty safe asking him to be the guy. Watching LeBron in his

20th year, is there anything left for you? I mean, we're, we're both getting paid. We're both getting paid to talk about this stuff. I don't, there's just certain nights where I'm like,

okay, here he goes again. Where are you? Well, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know,

I'm a vocal at a opponent of the three point shot, which I honestly and truly feel. And here you go. Ready? It's the worst thing to happen to basketball in my lifetime. It has distorted the game at every level. It has altered the concept of how to play the game that used to be always inside out.

Now it's out, outer, and curry land. And that's the game, and everybody's emulating it. And then talking about eight-year-old kids in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, they're cracking up threes. And when you see people pass up layups continually that pass to some guy in the corner to clank a three, it does bother me a great deal. The dependence on the three is just, and it is the game.

It's not going anywhere. We're closer to a four than we are to abolishing the three. I understand that. It's not the same game that I grew up loving. I don't enjoy it as much and I still can enjoy it and it's still important to me and that's fine but I'm not going to lie it isn't the same game

everybody knows it's not the same game and you either like it or you don't like it I don't like it the way it is so that's the fact so when we get a player come along like a Jokic that does what he does he incorporates the three as part of his game, but it's not his life. That's what, you know, Larry, people wonder, that's exactly the way Larry treated it

40 years ago. Now today, of course, he'd be encouraged to take more threes and he would, and he'd be one of the most devastating three-point shooters. But in his game, he used it strategically when he thought it was a time to do it. And so I understand younger people who have never seen anything else. This is what they know. And that's fine. But I have seen something else, and I like the other game better. Okay, so back to LeBron.

20 years in, do you think he can pull this off in Denver? Yes, he can. There's no question he can. I'm a percentage chance guy, so I think that series is, I don't know, 70-30, maybe 65-35 Denver percentage chance, but that's, to me, that's a

hefty, good possibility. It's not improbable. They have to stay healthy. Davis has to stay on the floor. One of those, they need a nightly contribution from, you know, at a high level from one of those role guys. Now maybe Hachimura is going to have a whole series. I like him, and you

have to like him, I think, and the way he's playing. Reeves is a revelation. I mean, you've got to face it, this is one of the great shocks of all time. At the beginning of this year, I paid zero, less than zero attention to him. And now, you know, he's a guy you got to honor.

It's possible. I think Denver is a better team. I think they ought to win, but I won't be stunned and shocked. It won't be the biggest upset in the history of the league. It'll be a hell of a story. And I know the networks are rooting.

I'm sure that, you know, I'm sure ABC and ESPN are rooting for it. And I'm sure the league would love to see it, to have LeBron in the finals. No offense, Denver, but this is a fact. So I'm continually amazed by him and an odd flight, by the way,

he plays the game and what he's doing at this level, at this age. It's extraordinary. It means a lot to me every time we get the time with you, Bob. So enjoy the game, too. All right, we'll talk again. Okay, thanks for having me. I we get the time with you, Bob. So enjoy the game twos, all right? We'll talk again. Okay, thanks for having me. I appreciate it very much. Bye-bye.

In Chicago for the NBA Combine. I'll be back in LA tomorrow. Maybe tonight. I'm not sure. But here's the deal. Flew Southwest. Haven't done that in a while. but you want to fly into Midway. You want to get to Chicago before the afternoon traffic. That's the move. I have to remind myself of that anytime I'm in O'Hare or if I land in Chicago

after four o'clock and you're like, oh, this was a terrible call. Something that hasn't happened to me. I was taking off the old Delta tag off the bag as I checked the bag for Southwest. And then I was tearing the old tag away. And a lady came up to me and she was like, I'll take that for you. The crumple tag. But I put the crumple tag in my mouth as I went to like, you know, what's it supposed to do? Well, it was the very end, Kyle. I'm sorry. Well, you're not planning on handing it to somebody either. I get that. Oh, you thought you were talking, Kyle. I'm sorry. Well, you're not planning on handing it to somebody either. I get that. Oh, you thought you were talking. I thought you were worried about germs, which actually surprised me.

A little worrisome. Wow, thanks. No, I just mean just the optics of like, here, take this. You want this thing I just had in my mouth? There you go. It's like somebody borrowing a pencil that you've just been chewing on. It's like, I don't know. Whatever.

Continue. You want me to wipe my forehead on your neck? Something like that. Deb Pelt and I used to do that to each other. Would you rather have Tim Legler just put his neck against your face? Or... All right. So anyway. No, it gets worse because the woman was like, I'll take that.

And I was like, I don't want to give it to you. I just had it in my mouth. I was like, I'll deal with it. She i was like i don't want to give it to you it's it's i just had it in my mouth i was like i'll deal with it she's like i don't care your mouth has probably been the same place mine has i was like hey it's 7 a.m don't hit me with riddles yeah seven you know i'm like you're right it was a riddle because i was like what the fuck did that even mean what does that mean i was like was i being hit on or insulted like i don't i don't know what the proper response to that is even there was none yeah i just was like all right man cool the answer is you'd be surprised that's the answer that's what you gotta say yeah but then i gotta keep talking to him yeah yeah i did a i did a real like cool yeah it's just there was nothing actually said uh so anyway make it here go to the combine

um i gotta tell you sanogo nobody likes him UConn. He fucking dominated the first day. He kicked everyone's ass. And then Sam Vassini, who we love on this pod, he was like, here are the standouts. He did like 12 standouts. He didn't even mention them. And then I asked the team, I was like, what do you think? And they're like, come on, dude. I was like, all right. I go, look, I'm not telling you he's going in the first round. All right. But there's something to be said of a guy whose hands and his feet and the way he runs and he can't be moved. And every time the ball's like up for grabs, it always is his. And he's dirty in like a really good way. When he hits dudes with his off arm to like get position where he's positioning to get an offensive rebound and put back. Guys are crumpled. I don't even know. He might get called for it in the NBA.

And granted, I get it. He's an undersized post player. Nobody likes those players anymore. But he was kicking guys' asses. And I was like, he can't make it into the top 60? There's no top 60 home for this? And again, it's not like i i polled every team it's just a couple people that i ran into and everybody looked at me like

i had the dumbest idea of all time and then vassini didn't even mention him like at least put him in the standouts because he stood out not that he now all of a sudden needs to be you know a guy going from pick 30 to 40 so i don't know maybe somebody else will like him we'll see yeah jordan hawkins is the guy that all the the yukon guy that everybody loves like all the magic fans want jordan hawkins with maybe that second pick because he could shoot but sunoco is a freaking monster i just don't know like what's the best case scenario like what is he a is he just like a second unit guy who just dominates other bigs i don't i know. Yeah, and I definitely have a weird hole in my game

for, like, the super athletic, full energy. Like, I guess I just want the next Kenneth Farid, another manimal. Yeah. Remember Jeff Adrian at UConn? I love Jeff Adrian. Yeah, love Jeff Adrian. But Jeff Adrian was smaller, I think, even than Snogo was.

Oh, definitely. But he was a beast. Yeah. But just seeing Snogo, like certain guys not understand how strong he is in the combine, where they'll like go to do something with him and you just go, oh my God, like this guy, he's the strongest dude playing.

He's the strongest dude that's out there. I don't know. We're not going to recap all the combine stuff here a little bit, but I did want to recap the cheeseburger run that I've been on. Yeah. They're known for their cheeseburgers out here, boys. Or their deep dish. I'm just not a deep dish guy.

I remember being excited about it the first time I came out here to try it. And then it comes out and they take the slice and the cheese pulls apart and everybody's like, Ooh, and then, you know, they put it on your plate and you're like, Oh, this first bite, it's like warm cheese. There's some sauce in there. And it's like a pastry crust. You're like, Oh, this is good. Like, isn't this good? And everybody's looking at each other. It's good. And then you like notice that people aren't rushing for the second slice yet but then you have to and you grab the second slice and then you're kind of looking around it's like four people that all are really excited about some actor that they've loved their entire lives being

in a movie and then like 20 30 minute mark in the movie one of the persons looks at each other and goes like does this movie suck um even though you were laughing in the beginning, you're like, oh, this is good or whatever. So yeah, I don't come here for the deep dish. It's just not my thing. I don't want to get a huge fight about it. But I went to Travoli Tavern Monday for a $30 double cheeseburger.

That is something. Yeah, I got to tell you, I looked at the menu. I was like, are you fucking serious? And then I took a bite and I went, okay. And this is a regular size cheeseburger that and then i went yeah i gotta tell you i looked at the menu was like are you fucking serious and then i took a bite i went okay and this is a regular size cheeseburger or this is like like it's 30 because of like the cheese is perfect or it's because it's like fucking gold flakes on it no no it was it was like i'll admit i was like i'm not i'm gonna order something else i was like i can't spend 30 bucks on this double cheeseburger. The word was like, no, you have to. So I'll admit that first bite, I was like, okay, this is insane.

But then everybody talks up Al Shaval, which is, you know, I don't really know the mapping of the area. Certain areas that have been built up West Loop more so now than it was when I first started coming out here. I remember they used to put us up at the Combine, the first, first days of the Combine. And you were like, dude, are you serious at this hotel? And then eventually like the athletes that were on the Combine, I'd be like, where is everybody? They're like, oh, they're staying in town. You just go like, what happened? I think one year I go, I will pay out of my own pocket to not stay at this hotel. And where this hotel is now is actually kind of the outskirts of the end of the cooler spots a little bit younger. But you go to Al Shavuot, it's all cheeseburger.

So the great thing about being by yourself is they're like, oh, there's a two-hour wait. And I was like, it's just one. They're like, oh, there's an extra spot over there. I'm like, all right, no problem. The benefits of solo travel. Let's go. Yeah, I one. They're like, oh, there's an extra spot over there. I'm like, all right, no problem. The benefits of solo travel. Let's go. Yeah, I know. It's amazing, especially internationally, like the hottest restaurant ever.

You just go like, oh, no one can get in there. Like, we'll see. The thing is, is when you're doing it internationally, they feel bad for you. I'll never forget eating dinner at this place in Greece where they were just like this. They're like, don't even go over there. Fuck. There's some terrible service because they were like, this guy actually wants to sit here by himself out by the water. I was like, yeah, I don't give a shit.

All right. So back to the cheeseburgers. You go in. I think I'll shove all the entire premise would be to have the best version you've ever had of a fast food burger. All right? And I know that In-N-Out is kind of that. And in a way, it is. Fries suck.

And yet, when I went here, I had a prime seat. I don't know if you call it the chef's table. It's just the counter. There's a ton of people on the counter um the chefs by the way were enormous so not a lot of room for those dudes back there sweating like crazy and they're cooking up their cheeseburgers right and they throw all the patties fresh patties down right never frozen um they've got their cheese options they also broil them a bit they've got their

toasters going above it's all very efficient you love the egg station to the right kyle just dudes cracking eggs and then there's the bacon so they're like throw down the patties then they set them aside and then it'll be like okay let's get the bacon going again like all right where are we on our bacon patty ratio and the whole thing? And so when you order a double, it's actually three patties, cheese on every layer, pickles, onions. They've got their own spread. I'm just a ketchup guy. Sounds a lot like Five Guys so far.

It's a little higher. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I don't know if they'll put that review on the website. Sounds a lot like Five Guys, TBH. Double the price. Yeah, it was incredible. Really, really good burger.

But I think, I know this is great. I think Trolley Tavern's burger was actually better. Well, there you go. All right, it's out there now. Can't take it back. The burger thing is actually fascinating because I think the fast food burger, they have it right. When you try to fancy up a burger, it actually fascinating because uh i think the like the fast food burger they have it right like when you try to fancy up a burger it actually gets way worse if you try to do a special bun or if you do like a lot of times like if you just like a huge ass patty that's actually

terrible give me like a bunch of little thin ones with cheese layered in like i don't want a huge patty so like when you try to fancy up a burger i think oftentimes like it backfires i think like the grimier the burger, just the better. I want multiple layers of cheese, multiple layers of meat. I want whatever that special sauce is, some shredded lettuce and tomato, and then we're good to go. And preferably probably a potato bun. And that's why I think all of those, whether it's the Five Guys, whether it's the In-N-Out,

whether it's the Shake Shack, which I love, I kind of just would prefer that over a fancy burger any day of the week. I've got to be honest. I've had a couple of restaurant black and blue burgers, and God damn it, that is an experience. I'll always try a black and blue burger. Wait, you're talking black Angus with blue cheese in it? They're always called black and blue.

Yeah, it's just like it's a burger with blue cheese on it. And black, I guess it's because it's whatever. That's just the name I see at all these restaurants. Char on the outside. Sure, yeah. that's a fun way to do a burger but yeah i know what you're saying like uh i wouldn't be like oh this place has a regular cheeseburger that's like uh you know it's fucking half a you know half a pound or something if it's like an inch thick like pass don't want that i don't want one patty that's an inch thick like i know like sometimes i look at it and i go okay it's you know it's it's raw on the inside like it's cooked

perfectly medium medium rare whatever you want no no i want like this i like i the closer to smash burger the better like you get that crispy edge that's the best that to me is the best burger also i think don't i think some of the some of the smash burger stuff can go too far with this running rampant where you're just like, what am I eating here? It just looks like hash browns. It doesn't look like hash browns. Yeah. All right. You can fuck up a smash burger.

I'll give it to you. But a well-done one, I just think there's nothing better than that. Well, then you would like both places that I went to because it's the thinner patty. It's multiple patties. And they're trying to make the fanciest fast food burger. And it works. Both places were awesome. So I think I might be cheeseburgered out.

We'll see how it goes for the final meal here tonight. I don't think we have anything else, right? Do we have any updates? Kyle, how are you doing? You sound a little, is it the burger topic or just a Thursday post-bachelor party? Is this lingering a bit? Have you gone out since?

I have not. Everyone's wondering when I'll be going back to the frolic room i don't know might be today depending on what time bill uh bill gets his shit together here so uh i don't know we'll see um i was gonna say about your uh about your southwest thing um just before i forget i never i'd always walk past those i was so basically i got dropped off in philly and i had to wait for like three hours before my flight came back to la uh and i just I just said, I was like, what am I going to do? I'm so tired. I just paid, um, for like 45 minutes in an airport massage chair. And there was like four people, people were looking at me like I was disgusting. I don't know what it was. Uh, but

I spent 45 minutes in a massage chair, uh, and just kept feeding the meter on that thing. So I was looking at these weird charges on my car. I was like, what the fuck is that? I was like, oh yeah, that's when you re-upped five times on the massage chair in Detroit Airport, actually. It was actually during my layover. Just need a little self-care. I was just like, fuck it, I'm going to do it.

I'm going to fucking do it. And so it was fine. It didn't quite like you know fit to my body but um you know i made it work i gotta tell you the massage chair move in the airport when you feel like shit people never think it would help it's actually not a bad call uh i remember you've done it too no i haven't done it but i remember our 10-year reunion which is a pretty rough one and everybody was at the the Vermont airport and, you know, guys are recapping everything and kind of going through it all. And it's kind of a weird deal because it's especially a 10 year because

you're still so young and you miss it pretty bad, but you're getting closer to like reality. And there's also the reality of like a lot of us, you know, we keep in touch, but this might be our last like real run at it. You know, this might, and that's not entirely true.

It's really depends on your group. But for us, it was probably really like the last one. And so everybody's kind of sitting there, you know, smoothie, soda water, other guys go with beers,

you know, everybody's trying to figure out like, as we're all waiting for the plan or well, the plan and the planes, uh, as we go our separate ways and a guy uh a guy got in the massage chair and he was we were like dude are you seriously getting the massage chair and then uh he's like yeah i am fuck you guys i'm getting in it and then he got in it and he was like it was set up that he could look at us and everybody right everybody

thinks he's doing it for like uh you're a loser like why are you doing this and then he does it and he's like you guys have no idea and we're like making fun of him we think he's like selling it to us we're like this is stupid and so then like one other guy was like who was like i'll admit i wanted to try it but i didn't want to be the first guy that went over and did it. He's like, I may re-up. You may not even get a chance. And then it turned into, come on, dude, share the chair. He's like, oh, share the chair, share the chair now. it back and then it turned into like a different conflict. So I'm just telling you, those things are always empty, but it might be the right call and shout out to Kyle for having the instinct and lack of fear to do it. Well, the first time I went back, there was just kind of a bunch of old ladies who needed a seat. Nobody was paying for, there was four chairs and they were, they were all taken by like women who clearly needed to sit down. And so, you know, I went, you know,

I let another like hour go by and I was like, let me see if I could, you know, because I looked to see first I was like I was going to be crazy. And I was like, I'll actually get I'll actually book a spa massage thing from these airport people. If there's one in this terminal, I will lay down on a table in public and have somebody massage me. That's what I'm going to do right now. But they didn't have that in there. So I was like, all right, the massage chairs are going to compromise. I went back. There was one free spot.

I sat down. Everyone else in the row was not getting was not paying for the chair and they were like are you seriously doing it and it had like a huge speaker on it so when i put my card and it's like choose how much you it's like it's screaming everyone's like oh this fucking guy's actually fucking paying money so i don't think i'll do i don't think i'll need to announce to the world your intentions. It's like the loudest speaker. But yeah, I don't know if I'd do it again, but if I'm ever in that type of shape again, I will. Okay. I like it. All right. Let's get to some life advice here.

You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South For south fork i have every toy you can possibly imagine and best of all kids i am liquid so now you know what's possible let me tell you what's required life advice is supported by state farm worried about life's what if state farm is here to help they take service seriously with agents available to help you over the phone or in person or you can get answers to your questions right away using the State Farm app. So no matter what life throws

your way, they're there when and how you need them. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Call or go to statefarm.com for a quote today. We did have some technical difficulties with Bob Ryan, so a little shorter pod for you today. So Rudy, we need a jacked baby arms update. There's no update. I'm not jacked. It's one of those things, too, where she's at daycare a lot of the day, too. I'm really holding her in the morning, and then

I'm holding her at night, and then she goes to bed two hours after we pick her up. I'm not really holding her that much right now. Weekends, definitely a lot more of that situation. It is is like a kind of a pain in the ass because she's, I think she's like 16, 17 pounds now. Uh, but I usually post up in like a chair somewhere with her and have her sit on my lap kind of thing. So I'm not all arms right now. So check back and like, I don't know, check back over the summer. Cause we're probably doing more outside stuff or I've got to basically just hold her in one arm, but nothing, no,

no good progress right now. Are you baby backpack guy? My buddy asked for a baby backpack i was like are you gonna wear this man like 80 bucks uh i don't know what is that like the thing you wear her in yeah but i mean this one's like a fucking straight up backpack and it's like i don't know i got it was like i was like you want me to buy you an 80 backpack for this baby are you gonna wear this baby on your back i don't see we actually have one we have it it's a front one so she faces us mostly my wife uh that's bad dude pretty awesome no that's bad that's bad for her developing relationships if she's not facing towards them that's the reason for the bjorn she's gonna be a total recluse uh it is what happened though i will say right

wait so rudy mad at one of us right now no i'm just i'm not mad i'm just saying like it's one of those things you put on the registry and you're like i don't know how much this costs somebody buy it for me i don't know right but you got one that faces you i'm just saying and that's how i was suggesting that i was putting a fucking backwards facing it's the new where you dropped on your head as a baby it's like yeah did they have you facing backwards man what that what happened they put me in a duffel bag they just cut out holes in a garbage bag figure it out through some fruit roll-ups in there can't get out super safe yeah oh man yeah these get older there's problems all the inside yeah yeah will he ever

figure out he got out when he was four really smart doesn't talk to many people all right uh so all right so it's it's a tbd on the jacked arms yeah no i don't think it's gonna happen i don't i'm incapable of being jacked so it's fine i don't know maybe you're incapable of being dedicated enough to being jacked all right not a jim hardo sorry there's some fucking lasers flying around right now all right let's uh let's get to the emails rr life advice rr at gmail.com okay here. I love this headline. Am I too old to shoot hoops in the park by myself? Hey, guys, 5'8", 160.

No, Jim's death. Well, you aim all the perfect podcasts. Yeah, I know, really. Like, Bob, tell us more about Larry Bird, the book. So, yeah, man, I don't know what else is next here. So I have a screenplay. Okay. All right. But I do enjoy running and have completed a few marathons in the last couple of years. All right. Active guy. Five, eight, one 60. Love it. My family and I recently moved to a new house as a nice neighborhood park just up the street. The park is a basketball court. Uh, that's so far doesn't seem to get used very often. I made the comment recently to my wife that she get a new basketball so that I can go shoot some hoops at the park on nice evenings. My wife thought I was joking initially, and then when she realized I was serious, she said it'd be kind of weird for a 35-year-old

man to play basketball by himself in the park. Come on. Exhale. It's not like I'm going to be working on defensive or dribbling drills. I just want to enjoy shooting some hoops, which is something I haven't done a lot since college. Is my wife right to think it's a weird thing to do? Or am I free to enjoy getting some shots up on a nice summer day? Thanks for helping me settle this debate. Okay, I don't want to be dramatic, but your wife sounds like the worst person I've heard of.

Like, why would she, why would anyone care first of all she's wrong but why would she not want you to do something that by the way is completely cost free sounds like something you miss doing right that you would like to do like imagine caring enough like being negative about something else that you want to do in the relationship. And by the way, there are far better examples of being like, I don't know if you should do that. That doesn't sound like a good idea.

That was stupid. I'm going to get out of your case about this. I'm not going to remember this or I'm not going to forget this and remember it for the next 12 years because of this that happened. Like a guy just wants to go outside and get some shots up

and she thinks that's weird. She's wrong. She's totally wrong. There is no, there and she thinks that's weird. She's wrong. She's totally wrong. There is no, there's no counter argument to this. There's nothing. So there you go. Yeah. Not only do I think you should go, uh, Igloo makes this cooler called cool tunes.

I believe I just was gifted it for my birthday. I think you throw a couple Heineken silvers in there, no bitter endings and enjoy your summer nights. I think you should be the coolest old guy at Deep Park getting up shots and don't worry about it. She's totally wrong. She's way off. She doesn't know what she's saying. Do what makes you happy. This is super harmless.

You know what's weird too is like if you were like, hey, I'm going to go on a hike. She wouldn't say anything. She wouldn't bat an eye at that. But like getting shots up is weird and it's less strain and stress on your body and you enjoy it more. There's a weird stigma between going shooting by yourself and I don't like it. Well, it depends what you do when you shoot by yourself.

Less strain, so I don't know that I agree with that. But I would, I mean, she's obviously not a basketball family. She's looking at it as if you shooting hoops outside at 35 years old by yourself is the equivalent of you saying like, I want to get Legos. So, I mean mean she's just she's built different in the worst way possible i wanted to i was i wanted to put up a hoop i'm mad my neighbor has a hoop in his yard and uh it's not his house it's his

parents house he's like a younger kid. And I'm kind of jealous. I just watched him shoot hoops outside. And I was like, kind of talking to my wife about maybe getting a hoop. But the problem is, I don't want other people

in the neighborhood to watch me shoot hoops in my driveway because like, I am not a young kid anymore. Is that weird? I just, I'm like a little subconscious

about just people like the other families walking by like, oh yeah, there's that guy. I know. I think it's so great. You could lean into this,

throw a headband on, throw on some fucking Van Halen. Put out like two cones. Put out like two cones and work on your elbow step backs. You know, pretend contact. Having to work around it. Yeah.

Just do the 3-2-1 buzzer thing. 10, 9, 8. Just a couple of turn around jade cones. Waiters for three. Just do the 3-2-1 buzzer thing. 10, 9, 8. Just a couple of turn around jades. Waiters for three. Joey Romo. We so with those. Never mind.

I'm going to shut the fuck up. All right. Yeah. Once I said, but we so wrong. It was like, all right, don't even bother. All right. Caddy tipping issue. We'll do three because the interview was a little short today.

Okay. Hello, gentlemen. My friends and I are headed to a golf trip this week in a very nice resort in Wisconsin. We're having a debate for which I feel the LA crew

is a perfect arbiter. It's an upscale resort. Well, they're going to Sand Valley. So there you go. If that helps any of the golfers listening to this.

And the course requires you to walk or have a caddy this will be our fourth year on the trip with my twin brother and two very close friends and we'll always have caddies for the four or five rounds that we play we've been lucky enough to pair with the same guy for the last three years and he'll be on my bag again this year the suggested rate for caddies is 100 but i've always tipped him about 150 to 175 per round because he's a great hang and i never play golf with a caddy the rest of the year. I like the guy and I like being generous if I'm in a position to do so. This year, however, my friends asked if we could all agree about how much we were tipping beforehand because we can't have, we'll just use his name here because it's

nothing outrageous here. We can't have Brian being Mr. Popular and one upping our amounts. I told them I was going to hand my guy 800 at the start of the trip for five rounds, 160 around for all those English majors out there. Got it. Okay. At first, I thought we were talking English majors and I was like, wait,

what? Lynx golf? Now I get it. All right. And they all collect. Right. They all collectively lost their shit. Good call, Serti. I trampled that, but that was good. They apparently want to tip it all right and they all collect right they all collectively lost their shit good call sirdia i trampled that but that was good you're good they apparently want to tip 125 per round so they lost their shit about 35 extra dollars per round my question is simple does this really fucking matter i told them they're they're welcome to tip however much they want any issues they have are simply their projection of how it'll be received i can't help it if they have a complex about this.

I've told them I would write y'all and go with whatever you decide. If this is coming too late, editing here, then just know there's going to be a very well compensated looper in Wisconsin. Looper. Love it. On Tuesday. You're right. Your friends are wrong. Tip less. It doesn't

matter. As somebody who again, the old bartending game of get totally hooked up on drinks and end up paying way more because we all try to overcompensate by tipping each other way more than we normally should i would tell whoever i was with i'd be like i'm gonna have to tip more and i'd be like all right like i'm not gonna ask you like hey what are you putting down what are you putting down what are you i'm gonna put down more and then those guys like some guys would be like oh well if you put down some or whatever, I would just say, hey, look, put down what you're going to put down

and then whatever, go last, especially if it's on like four separate checks. There's nothing that can be done, all right, on that one. You're going to have the same caddy, what, for the fourth year, I think. You like them. You built up some rapport. The thing that's even dumber about this is it's not like it's your neighborhood bar where you're Mr. Big Shot by being the big tipper out of the group and trying to gain some credit with people that you're going to continue to interact with. You

see these people once a year. The rest of the caddies are going to forget the other guys the entire time. They're not going to be thinking about them for a year going, oh, those are the three guys that paid $35 less per round. I remember them. They're not going to be thinking about them for a year going oh those are the three guys that paid 35 dollars less per round i remember them they're not going to care because you know what they're still making good money you decide to go above and beyond that's their hang-up that's their problem um so i wouldn't feel bad and hopefully you take care of your guy if you like you said are in a position to do so you know tip what you can you know show some sort of appreciation but this resentment towards other people that want to step up and take care of people is fucking stupid. It says, when has a group of guys ever cared about feelings? Like usually guys are always just like, Oh, shut the fuck up. Whatever. This is

one of those situations where you should be like, Hey man, shut the fuck up. I'm tip what you're going to tip. I'll tell you what I'd say, but if you can sleep at night, that's great. I think that's fine. I think that's awesome. Um, some people are, are really strange about the tip or extra money in any sort of situation. Like remember I told you we had 13 dudes at the bachelor party. Uh, the guy who was in charge invited my buddy's brother who like I've known for a while, but like doesn't really know everybody in, in this, in this group, because if he didn't come, they were going to have to each pay an extra $35 was the number. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me?

We got, we're going to squeeze one more guy onto a couch because you're like afraid that everyone else is gonna have to pay 35 extra dollars so i mean some people's brains actually work like that and other people's were you know don't so i don't think i don't think you can convince anybody um to to change their ways so i would just i just say hey man if you could sleep at night tipping that go go ahead. I'm sleeping just fine these days. Those are like fight words, though. Yeah, that seems a little hard. Well, it's guys, right? You're guys.

That's what I mean. Like, you're allowed to be a little harsh on each other. I don't have much to add. I just feel like you have an awesome relationship with this guy

and you want to hook him up. That's great. That's not weird at all and doesn't really make the other guys look bad. You know this particular caddy and I don't know. Like, it's not, it doesn't feel like the guys are tweeting the other guys drastically less. It's just, you know this this particular caddy and i don't know like it's it's not it doesn't

feel like it's there the guys are tweeting the other guys drastically less it's just you know figure out what the tip with if they tip with the average going rate is i don't think we have a problem here and then everybody knows that this guy and that caddy just know each other unless the other guys have relationship with the other caddies too maybe it's a little bit weird because maybe they're like hey like i thought we had a good time too and you're tipping this guy $30 a day less. I don't know. It doesn't seem like that's the case. It seems like the other guys are getting random caddies and that's

fine. They should get whatever the regular rate is. You're giving your buddy the welcome back rate essentially. Totally. Unless the pushback is the initial thing, the pushback was them going, are you serious? Like, I think that might've been what started the argument would be him going, Hey, I'm going 800 for the five rounds or whatever. Right. And they're like, dude, what the fuck? Like it actually adds up. Now we're talking to other extra 150. What he should do is, no, no, you guys do what you want to do, right? Because I can understand that part of it, especially if they're like, look, we're already tipping a really good number here.

I think 100 bucks for a caddy for the round is probably pretty good. That would be my guess. Yeah. I don't think that's like bad. I've only played with a caddy once ever, and it was at somebody else's course. And he was kind of just, we just went out three of us and like, we didn't even play a full 18. It was just, the guy was kind of with us because we were screwing around. So like, and by the way, I was never going to be, I wasn't paying greens fees. I was a friend of the guy that was the

member. The member just wanted me to come out and bullshit for a little while. So I can't even speak to the experience of it. So I'm not a resource on this at all. But when it comes to the tipping part, you may have lost them in the proposal that you were suggesting that everybody pay the same amount. And if you were pushy about it, then I don't blame them for wanting to push back, especially if some guys just don't want to have to tip an absurd amount of money, which I totally understand. So what it should be coming down to is, well, wait, the other part of the email was they said that they all want to be on the same page because Brian tries to be the hero. I don't know. I actually now I've become bored of suggesting of me breaking this whole thing down. We already know the answer. Yeah. Right. Right.

It's not even like it's not like you're the one guy tipping less. It's there's three other guys tipping the same and it's an appropriate amount. You're fine. You're fine. All right. Okay. Speaking of money, bartender makes me pay twice.

29 years old, 6'5", 235, mid-range game, like a playground, Sean Livingston, after the knee injury, I imagine. Sean Livingston before the knee injury was going to be, he was going to be so nasty. Anyway, speaks to how good he was. He still was that good after devastating injuries. All right. Huge fan of the show. Been listening since

SVP and Russillo. Need to know if I handled the situation correctly or if I got taken advantage of. Last week, my best friend, let's call him Mike, turned 30 years old. Mike and his wife, Sarah, live in a different city. So a bunch of our friends and I went to his town to celebrate. Sarah hosted a 30th birthday party for Mike at their local bowling alley.

Coincidentally, a seven-year-old birthday happened to be in the next lane. So fun for all ages. Okay. Sarah hosted the birthday party at the bowling alley because their family friends owned it. All right. But here was the situation. There was a bar in the bowling alley. We bought beer pitchers.

I opened a tab and put about $100 worth of pitchers on the tab. Nothing outrageous. At the end of the party, I went to the bar to close my tab. I handed the bartender my card and after about 30 seconds, he returned to me saying there was some sort of error on it and I needed to give him another card. Now, I'm not saying I'm killing it. There have been times in my

early 20s where I'd be sweating out, praying the card would not get declined. Brother, don't you know it. That's a sport. I had my card declined at bottle service at marquee once that was a good time jesus after i'd gotten the waitress's number just barely was it like just almost enough and like oh she's like fine she's like your car got to pine i was like oh it must have been i'm moving money around it happens all the time

moving money around fucking loser uh anyway like hey you're talking about guys car got declined yeah it's fucking really cool um anyway i opened a tab all right all right whatever okay so i'm not saying i'm killing it right i'd be sweating and praying the car would not get declined but luckily a hundred dollar tab will not be an issue at this point in my life i know badass nice it doesn't humor about it all no this guy's great so happily i give him the other card but before he runs that card out of curiosity i pull up my bank account on my mobile app to see if it got flagged. All right.

To see if it got flagged. Not only had it not been flagged, but my card had been charged. I did a bad job explaining this. I apologize to the listeners. All right. So he looks at the app, wants to see if something's flagged, you know, because that'll happen, right? There'll be some fraud alert. Did you just do this?

You have to text back yes or whatever. All right. happen, right? There'll be some fraud alert. Did you just do this? You have to text back yes or whatever. All right. So it's not flagged, but then he sees on the app that $100 charge has just gone through. So at this point, I'm a little drunk, but still being over polite, I tell the bartender that it looks like my card was charged. I show him my mobile app and he suddenly gets very hostile with me telling me he can't trust my mobile app app that he's not going to get stuck with this tab and that it's not his problem even if we're friends with the owners he brought up the friends of the owners how would i have hacked my mobile app to put this in the fake charge he gets more he actually asks him how could i have done this

he gets more upset so i finally hand him a different card and pay the tab again the guy was such a jerk about it that's been bugging me for a week now would Would you have done anything differently or chalk it up to the game and be happy? We had a great time celebrating with my buddy. I know there's a few times here and there, both without any money and then certainly not worrying about my electricity being turned off at this stage of my life where I can be a little flippant at times with like, dude, it's 20 bucks. Like, seriously, do you want to go to war over this shit? If you don't even like this person, it's kind of the Bronxdale rule. It's like, you don't even like that guy, it's 20 bucks. Like, what do you, like, seriously, like, do you want to go to war over this shit? Like, if you don't even like this person, it's kind of the Bronx tale rule. It's like, you don't even like that guy, right? Like, and now he's out of your life because he owes you some money. You're going to go fucking crazy, boy. It's 10 or 20 bucks that you would see. So this is different though. I'm not going to be dismissive. This guy fucked up and bartenders,

despite the number of times that this can happen. Oh, I gave you this. When you get a 20 back in the day when people paid with cash, you put a 20 on the top of the register, you give them the change first, you hand them back the change, then you put the 20 in the drawer so that you could always point to the 20. Or you did 10 and somebody said it was a 20. Especially when you were in college bars, guys were trying to pull shit all the time all the time right um and some bartenders would be like lunatics about it and if you're on top of your game like fucking up the register is not something you'd be doing a lot and become a good bartender but if you're on top of your game every now and then you might be like all right cool you know whatever um and then depending on where you would work when they did the drawer drawer, if they were light, you know, they would make you, there's places I've worked where the policy would be who, whatever you are light, the bartenders are covering it. The bartenders are covering it. And that's what he's referencing here.

I have a hard time believing it would be a bowling alley. Wouldn't be a little bit more relaxed about it because there's times where stuff just does get fucked up. And I know the touchscreen stuff is all different now. I remember when I first started using it at the bar that I was at in Boston. And then, you know, next day, cause I was like the new guy, anytime there was a fuck up, they would just all blame me. And then the guy would call and be like, we need you to be better on this and you're going to have to pay. And I was like, whatever. It was also the most fucked

up place I bartended because they would count the tips downstairs with just one bartender and one of the other ones while everybody else waited around.'ve never ever experienced that in my life like fucking we own this city those guys in their house just stuff in their fucking like uh those yeah their jackets all right so back to answering this instead of another fucking boring story from my past um i would uh i would go back i would go back a hundred, look, I'm going to be and be cool about it. And the reason I actually bring up a lot of this stuff is that the bartenders, there's a really good chance he didn't fuck it up and that he didn't scam you. But there's so many attempts to scam him that he doesn't trust anybody. And it's weird that he brought up the friend thing of the family as if he already was pissed off and already had animosity.

So maybe he was trying to fuck you. His defense of the mobile app transaction is if you hacked it like fucking Matthew Broderick here. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah, that's insane, too. So you might be dealing with like a real loser and you might not even want to deal with again. But the thing is, is like any bartender that actually cares about being. I'm not talking about being great. I'm talking about being decent. Is that if you were to go up to the bar, but you may have to go manager on this one, although you don't live there anymore. So that's another

fucking problem. Well, you could call, you could call the manager and go, Hey, here's the deal. I was in there and be nice about it. It was busy. It wasn't busy, whatever. Hey, he was busy. was in there and be nice about it. It was busy. It wasn't busy, whatever. Hey, he was busy. I knew my card had gotten charged. He didn't believe me, which I understand, but not only did it get charged, he charged me again for the same tab. Is there a way I can email you the PDFs, the screen grabs of my phone to show it to you and then have them give you a fucking a hundred bucks back and reverse the charge. It's super easy. It happens all the time. I know it's a bit challenging because you can't just walk down the street. And as far as that guy, you're never going to deal with him again. So you want to call him? I just wouldn't deal with him because there's also another

version of a bartender who's never, ever wrong, ever. And even though this guy's totally wrong, and you're going to present him with the evidence like you already did, if you're dealing with him directly. So I wouldn't go friends with the family. There clearly has to be a manager. Because yeah, I think the principle of that $100 and having that guy feel like either he got over on you or was dumb enough not to realize that nobody had hacked the phone. So yeah, the $100 would bother me a little bit.

But I think there's some ways to... I think there's recourse here for you, which doesn't involve having him go back to this town for a weekend or dealing with this dude again. Yeah was two things he said was basically i don't give a shit if you're like you know buddies with the owners or that's weird right and i can't trust your mobile app like like i've been in there before where it's like hey it says you charged me and you didn't he's like hey man just trust me you know in in 48 hours it'll it will reverse i promise like that would have been enough for me to be like, all right, okay.

But like the whole like I can't trust what you're showing me there is like, okay. So and I'm a guy who realizes after doing certain things like, you know, signing up for pre-check, doing shit at the DMV. Like this shit isn't actually as hard as I thought it was. You know, the shit that you really don't want to do. So in this situation, I would have went screenshots, printouts, dispute charge. do. So in this situation, I would have went screenshots, printouts, dispute charge, and then just see if I can get that taken care of without even having to come back. But I would have just done all the things because as I've gotten older, it's actually much easier to do these shits that you're like, I really don't want to do this. It's actually fine. It's not that hard. So yeah,

I would have screenshotted both charges like, okay, why would I have two identical charges on the same night if I'm not telling the truth printouts, just so I can have it. And then, you know, sometimes in a lot of the credit card apps, you can just dispute the charge and they'll be like, okay. And if not, and if not, you've got all that stuff. I definitely will be, I definitely would be addressing this. And, and if not only because of the way the two things, like I said, that, uh, would have definitely made me see this through to the end. So yeah, totally handle this. Make a call once you have all your shit together instead of them being like,

all right, well then, you know, get your stuff and have them call me. Like do all that stuff first before you call. See if you can just handle this shit through your credit card company. That's the thing. I'm not trying to be a dick, but, and you guys can tell me if I'm wrong or not, because you have more experience in this arena. But like, is the bartender at the bowling alley that's also doing kids' birthday parties the best bartender? Is that a guy that you think is super buttoned up?

I don't know. Maybe he is. I have my doubts. So I think it's what Kyle said. It's pretty easy. Just dispute the charge. Call the manager. Call the bowling alley back. You know a person.

It should be pretty easy to get reversed. This isn't a chalking up to the game situation, though. That guy is likely wrong, and you have the proof, and it's a hundred bucks. There's no way that you're just going to take the L on that. And he was a dick, which was the cherry on top. And he's a dick. Yep.

It's a fair point by Cerruti. I've never seen an episode of Bar Rescue where Jon Taffer introduces his expert mixologist as Ralph from Sizzler's Lanes out of of mizzou there's likely a couple people i just got offended but yeah that's all right i'm yeah i mean listen i'm sure there are some great why aren't we doing more drafts like i love a bowling alley bar just what the fuck is this cran what just johnny's like i think i just gotta go drafts on drafts on drafts. What? What's the issue?

Yeah. You know, Steve, there could be a couple of bowling bartenders that will hear this pod and fucking despise you for the rest of your life. But I do think that it's a it's at least a conversation point. Bowling alley bartenders and pilots. You're really racking up the enemies, dude. point bowling alley bartenders and pilots you're really racking up the enemies dude like if it wasn't a kid there wasn't also a kid's birth like there are those adult bowling alleys that are sick and they have awesome bars and i'm sure they're like you have you know it's probably a lucky strike not my wife there yeah there you go uh i don't know that birth kids birthday party bar is the is the one i'm talking about but hey hey, man, maybe I'm wrong. Hey, I don't care

your friends with the owners. I don't. You hacked your phone. This guy. I don't know that anybody should be defending him here. Yeah, correct. We'll probably have a bowling alley bartender just be like, this guy does not represent us. You know, so.

What's that like TD? God, I can't trust TD Bank. No, no no don't trust the technology chase chase right oh what do you got one of the maps oh yeah those tell the truth bring me some paper bring me some real paper business is still done on paper i know limitless paper and paperless work all right life advice has been brought to you by State Farm. Prepare yourself for life's what ifs with State Farm. When you need to move quickly, get in touch with an agent right away using the State Farm app. And for those more complicated situations, they have agents in the field ready to answer your questions in real life.

Just call up your agent or head into your local State Farm office for a more personal touch. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Call or go to statefarm.com for a quote today. That's life advice. Thanks, Kyle. Thanks, Steve. Thanks to Chicago. And we're out of here.

We'll be back on Sunday with Bill and I, the Ryan Russo Podcast, right here on Spotify. Outro Music