The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Is the Shedeur Thing That Complicated? First-Round NFL Draft Reactions With Albert Breer. Plus, the Nuggets Look Cooked.

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

Russillo begins by taking about the Knicks, who took a 2-1 lead over the Pistons; the Nuggets, who look like they’re in big trouble against the Clippers; and the Thunder, who had a massive comeback against the Grizzlies (1:18). Then, he chats with Sports Illustrated senior NFL reporter Albert Breer about all the action in the first round of the NFL draft, including the Jaguars' big trade for Travis Hunter and why it shouldn’t be surprising that Shedeur Sanders is still available (23:37). Finally, he and Ceruti close it out with some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:07:07) Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Albert Breer Producers: Steve Ceruti, Ronak Nair, and Chia Hao Tat The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Get anything delivered on Uber Eats. www.ubereats.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're going for it. All right, tales of the couch sort of. Just recapping the three games that we had last night. I was thinking about doing something of a Palo, but didn't have time. We'll wait maybe until the off games that we had last night. I was thinking about doing something of a Palo, but didn't have time. We'll wait maybe until the off season and the NFL draft round one in the books with Albert Breer. We're going to get into all of it.

Jacksonville's bold move at the top, tight end situations, trade in surprises, things teams like things teams didn't like. And we will close on the Shador Sanders storyline. And life advice. Enjoy. Three games last night. I think they're still going to play the playoff games tonight, despite Shador Sanders not going in the first round.

I think the NBA will just operate business as usual, so we'll get to that draft night. So a lot to keep track of. Last night, and we start in Detroit, New York, up 2-1 after a victory on the road, Little Caesars going off. So a lot of the game two stuff that I talked about was Cat, or the lack of Cat in the offense,

and his zero field goal attempts in the fourth quarter of game two. I was looking at it again, I think there was like three real touches. Sometimes you get a touch as a center as they swing it and then you're not really in the play. So I think the number was like three real touches because Dibbido had said, no, we did a good job of them. And it was like, I don't know that I would agree with that,

but sometimes catching the coaches right after not watching the film, they're just going to push back on any question or story building about the game and how things played out. So, um, Tobias Harris, I would say for the most part through the first couple of games had done a good job against Kat. Uh, and that's not a matchup that you would expect to win if you were Detroit. So I also think the Knicks had as much to do with it as Harris did as we talked about the lack of touches. Fred Katz who covers the Knicks for the Athletic had a really good point about how defensive assignments can dictate how Cat plays the game and it speaks

to a record here that I was shocked because I knew what I was seeing but then when I'd read this piece yesterday I thought it was just pretty thorough and alarming at the same time. If it's a traditional big defending cat, the Knicks went 35 and 12. If it's a non-traditional big, so I think you could just kind of use the catch-all term small, although Tobias Harris, I wouldn't exactly call small, but I think we all understand what we're talking about here. The Knicks were 11 and 14. This is something that was happening throughout the season where teams were putting a smaller player on Kat, which led to less screens, that pick and roll, pick and pop action that

was just devastating on a points per possession stuff, at least in the first half of the season for the Knicks. This is just something when he would be facing that kind of alignment because of the versatility of the defender against Kat, where it's not the traditional big, where against the big guys there's 27 screens a game, against the smaller players 15.9. There's also probably just, it's worth doing 30 seconds on this double big fascination, which I've referenced. I've said it with Houston, it's like, oh, double big.

Back in the day, it used to be called a center and a power forward, where you would just, like, this guy's a little bit bigger than that guy, and that guy will play over there. And now with the spacing priority that I think every team should kind of have, like, hey kids, is there a way we can figure out a roster where we have a lot of spacing and then figure out

our deficiencies elsewhere as opposed to, hey, how can we build this without any kind of spacing whatsoever? But some of these teams are just playing centers and power forwards, but now we're calling it double bigs all the time. I don't think anybody would ever imagine that Tobias Harris is a center, even though in the small ball shift that we had had for such a long time,

maybe that's just where we're at now, or it's like we're calling it double picks, but it really isn't anything all that new. It's just not teams wanting to play small, unless you're the Lakers and you don't have a center that you wanna play. So as I'm gearing up for all of the Tobias Harris stuff and looking for Kat and how they're gonna play it,

Dern was the primary defender last night for Detroit. So, do you look at that and say Detroit got away from something that was worth? I don't think that's necessarily the case. You put Harris on Hart. I think the feeling is you can have Harris help off, but is he mobile enough to be a help defender? And the other problem is even if Hart isn't a shooter

that you respect or the only non shooter that you feel you can cheat off of because OG was terrific. I really like some of this stuff that the Knicks did getting OG going up against Cade. I think there's times to attack Cade there defensively. Bridges seems to have these nice stretches. It wasn't 27 shots from Brunson. So Hart is, you look at the other five and you go, who can we get away with cheating off of? The problem is when you do that with Hart, especially if he's off the ball or just on the non ball side of the court, he's just so good at cutting.

And he's so good at cutting when you're not paying attention that you still have to almost treat him. You don't have to position yourself as if he's a shooter, you can never leave you still have to be really aware because the guy's super super active and that's how he gets so many rebounds on top Of everything else So look we can talk about the defensive assignment here stuff with cat and say that Detroit got away from something else that was working Because I went through the field goal attempts for cat where it was 11 against Durin only three against Harris One against b-ball Paul and then I have three classified as others. Sometimes the shot attempt versus the defender isn't always the greatest thing because then you're talking about the possessions

where Kat decided not to shoot, so it's almost as if the defender isn't getting any credit. For that, that's why opponents field goal percentage at times is really good and also at times really misleading. Here's the point. The point is that cat decided after game two in the fourth quarter taking zero shots

that the directive, whether it was the coaching staff, whether it was the film, whether it was his teammates, maybe it was all of those things, but cat had to decide, I'm gonna be more aggressive and I'm gonna be quicker. And he took six shots in the first quarter. And I think it just set a tone for him at least to be engaged because basketball is funny that way.

If you don't get to touch the ball and you don't get to shoot early on it can actually like leak into how you just have those moments where you gotta wake up you gotta wake up in this game and if you get off to like a really slow start for scores for shooters they can almost not talk themselves they could kind of take themselves out of the game because they've set their own tone by not being very aggressive. So six shots in the first quarter. And again, I think that was a massive carryover

from probably how Cat felt about how many touches he had, how just not part of the offense he was in that fourth quarter. Really some good defensive stuff there too, where New York cranked it up, met the ball right at half court. Some really good defensive stuff there too where New York cranked it up, met the ball right at half court. Some really good stuff from them forcing turnovers and getting out and handling a barrage of hard away threes early on in this one. The Clippers take out Denver in game three.

Denver is some trouble here. That was an ass kicking, okay? Now you may say, well, you know, they were kind of flirting 10 and then 20 points. It was like 20 points forever until it wasn't. Just to put this into perspective, Denver started eight and nine from the floor in this game. They were up 26-19 in the first quarter. So at 315 in the first quarter when that's the score,

you know, like, all right, Denver's making shots and they're figuring this out a little bit. From that point on with the final score, that means that LA outscored Denver to the end of the game, 98 to 57. Okay, that's balanced scoring from the Clippers, four players between 19 and 21 points. The bench for LA outscored Denver's

bench 31 to 6. I'm sure that's not shocking to many of you. Even with what looked like a bad Westbrook game to start, nine minutes, one to five, who knows with him? He could get hot, hit a couple threes. We know the uncontested numbers for him are really good over the course of the season because he's going to have a lot of uncontested looks and just being comfortable and adjusting to how he would play off of Jokic. So maybe he would turn around. Maybe it was going to be the really bad rust game. You didn't even have the option because he left the game with a foot injury and considering how thin they already are, that's actually a big loss for them. Michael Porter Jr. is 2- nine, one is six from three.

I think the shoulder injury is clearly significant enough. When we saw him go down earlier in the series, it looked pretty bad. They needed him to get up. And again, he's probably not gonna have an inspirational podcast at any point, but when he went down with that shoulder injury and the play was still going on around him,

it was like, okay, this guy must be really hurt. And there was one play in particular where maybe I didn't understand the severity of the shoulder injury until more of the information after last night's game saying he'd probably be out multiple weeks here, but they need his body. There was a play where there was a shot to the right side. He's on the baseline, Harden's behind him, the rebound's carrying me off the rim. It was a high bounce and then Harden just gets the offensive rebound behind him, and I'm like, man, I get that it was a bounce,

but you're 6'10", and then the fact that it's the shoulder, and then, you know, so we'll give him a pass on that one. Denver's D coming in here. One more note on the offense, by the way, Yokochi and Murray, 46 points. The rest of the team, the rest of rest of the nuggets team combined for 37 points Denver's defense was another issue here because as we talked about the balance scoring for the Clippers Depending on how much they even want to get zoo in there. That's kind of four guys

Like we said the bench comes in seems to make shots for the most part I wouldn't say this series is 3-0 if Denver doesn't or excuse me, the Clippers don't have 20 turnovers in game one because I think if Denver loses the first one, then they're just probably a little bit motivated to close a little bit better in game two, as I say, all the stuff connected here. So I'm not going to play the 3-0 game here minus the turnover problems that the Clippers had because a lot of it was was pretty messy. But Denver's defense, I guess, just a lot of perimeter guys for messy. But Denver's defense,

it was just a lot of perimeter guys for them to figure out how they're gonna match up against it. At the very start of the game, they came out with a zone with Aaron Gordon playing the ball at the top. And whenever teams do that, it's like they're just afraid to do it for too long because I wouldn't necessarily point to and say,

hey, they got away from the zone. That was working so well for them. I never necessarily felt that way. But Denver's defense after the all-star break was 23rd in the NBA, it's the worst of any of the playoff teams. And I don't even know that that's their main issue because the scoring imbalance is a massive problem. I'll have moments where I'm watching Murray and Chris Dunn is

hounding the shit out of him. And I'll think, is Murray doing anything right now? And his overall numbers are probably a little bit better than you would expect him to be, or maybe we're so conditioned to think of Murray as this playoff guy because if you were watching the Clippers broadcast last night, you saw that number that jumped up. I didn't even know it that he has the biggest jump of regular season average to playoff average in NBA history.

So maybe you're expecting some of those Murray Lakers moments from a couple years ago, but against Dunn, it's just even I'd'd say this for him is that there are times where I am impressed with his ability to finish considering what he's facing defensively and knowing that especially when he tries to carry over those non-Jokic minutes, like forget it. They don't have to deal with anything. They're just totally happy crashing on Jokic all the time

and they have the Zubac luxury of Zubac being able to at least hold up one-on-one against Jokic all the time and they have the Zubot luxury of Zubot's being able to at least hold up one-on-one against Jokic and impede his progress towards the rim. Like now you start looking at how Jokic, his eyes light up when he has Gobert one-on-one close in the restricted area against Zu. It's like I hope I just get a catch down there. There was another play where Westbrook was still in the game and Jokic was getting double teamed off the left elbow And he was being hugged by zoo and then Harden was hugging him on the other side And I'm not complaining about a non-caller anything like that It's just physical basketball and Westbrook

Nobody cared about Westbrook and Westbrook kind of didn't really know what to do because he didn't want to drive and he does you've seen It throughout the season. He gets kind of apprehensive or the most apprehensive we've ever seen of Westbrook as far as his basketball career. But he just kind of wanted to get it back to Yo Kitchen, he like dropped it at his feet. It just was like, dude, I have two, I'm wearing like Clippers chaps right now, okay? I don't, there's no pass to be made to me here

as you try to like get it to my feet. So, I guess I just could go forever here. I'm not gonna read all of this stuff because there's another play defensively where Harden just played it out perfectly, slowed things down, saw that Kawhi was gonna end up with Jamal Murray one-on-one on the right side even though he's extended almost to the three-point line.

Kawhi's getting ready to work. Jokic comes over not as a hard double, but just like a Luke Cornett, I'm standing over here and I may double you. Like I'm a potential double team here. So Jokic, I knew what he was doing. It was almost like playing a zone defense behind Murray, but the problem is,

is all of a sudden Gordon starts watching what's happening and then Derek Jones Jr. cuts baseline and Gordon completely loses him. And Gordon's like the one guy you're kind of hoping out there defensively will always be engaged. Granted, it's just one play, but it's a terrible play. It's a terrible play. You're ball watching while there's two guys

already on Kawhi. Kawhi makes the great pass and they lose him on the baseline. Denver scored 13 points in the fourth quarter. I was like, man, they're not scoring a lot here. One shot made outside the paint. And you know, I just don't know where the fix is here for Denver. I think there are some out there and the nastiness, there's the basketball conversation of my guy's better than your guy. Um,

and these just battles where I don't know that anybody gains any ground ever, but the preheat oven is probably warming up for Yokocho a bit. I don't know how you would watch these games and be like, yeah, it's that guy's fault. Although look, the turnovers are terrible in game two. He was, I think, atrocious defensively, especially in the first half of game one. I don't think that's I think he's been at least serviceable, which is always sort of the baseline for him. And, you know, there's times even I would admit, like be like, you might just have to like, it's weird.

We think about ones and the alphas and the best basketball players, we're almost happy if they're taking a million shots and it doesn't matter if they go in because we know that they want it, right? Jokic just isn't gonna do that. It's just not the way that he's wired. And it's worked out pretty well for him,

I would say throughout his career, but when they're getting their asses kicked and he's still like wondering if somebody's gonna cut and Wondering how the help is gonna come and you know The Clippers doing just a masterful job on on his movement like not a hard double on Jokic, but if he makes a move Okay now we can send one to him help off of these perimeter guys these perimeter guys are just not gonna beat us and the Clippers like As the game plan develops and you're going up because it's the same opponent, you can just see how teams get more and more comfortable of

like, Oh, this is how you're going to play this. Like now I know I can go and do these things. Uh, I did want to mention if you did not have the Clippers feed, like I did last night, yin yang twins performed after the first quarter, they performed again, a full set, uh, at halftime, 15 straight minutes. They do not lip sync. So if you're on the fence about seeing them, but worried if they were gonna lip sync their way through it,

not at all. Max effort, tallying each other down, tremendous stuff. I am, however, speaking of stamina, worried about the Clippers dance team. I understand 15 minutes is a little bit more than just the three minute timeout, but I thought they were struggling a bit towards the end of that 15 minutes. It's like we're still out here.

We're still there. You guys are still going. These guys are still shout out Houston. All right, final game. Oklahoma City comes back from down 29 against Memphis 30 in the series. Wow, Memphis started game two, 0 for 10. Not great.

Game one was really ugly too. Great first half shooting wise for Memphis. 11 to 22 from three. Oklahoma City only made four threes, four to 18. And Memphis took care of the basketball in the first half. Memphis was so hot at the start of this one. You can get out to this huge, huge lead, and sometimes it's like,

this is almost too early for this kind of lead. I mean, I know that sounds stupid, but you get the point. I'm like, all right, there's plenty of time left in this one. And that's kind of OKC. After that Brooklyn game, remember I talked about that Brooklyn game in the regular season, even I solo brought it up too. And it just could get lost in the traffic

of all the games throughout a regular season. even I solo brought it up too. And it just could get lost in the traffic of all the games throughout a regular season. But Brooklyn had 76. That Nets team that was trying to tank had 76 against the Thunder in the first half. And you're like, all right, they're probably just going to have one of those weird bad losses because it's a team that really didn't have

bad losses all regular season. We went through the exercise. It's just incredible how consistent they were for the entire season. So that's kind of my mindset. I was like, well, you know, they probably could still come back in this one because it's them. And they were only down 15, though, to the Nets in that game. So to be down 77, 51 at the half of it. All right. Maybe they're not going to come back in that game. So to be down 77-51 at the half,

I'm like, all right, maybe they're not gonna come back in this one, and then they did. Important to mention the job part of this just sucks. He was great last night. I know I'm turning into not necessarily being the biggest fan, and we can get to the resume of, oh, he's missing more playoff time. That's not really what I wanna do right now,

but it's 67-40, 3.15 left. When the play was live, I thought, I'm like, Oh my God, like Dort's going to be out of here. And then you see the replay and Dort just slips, kind of loses control of his body, catches Morant low. Morant lands on the hip. It's a contusion. He's on the ground. Takes the free throws just to keep himself available, be sub backed in. But then he was on crutches later on. It wasn't just his scoring.

I thought his playmaking was terrific last night. And I think that's the version of him that you'd love to see a little bit more balanced. But we know what the good versions are. We know what the bad versions are. Having said all of that, at 67-40, when he goes down, they only lost one point off of their lead to close the last 315.

And then the third quarter happened and Chet Holmgren happened. A 36-18 quarter for the Thunder. They shot at 15-18 from the floor overall. Chet had 16 points in the third. The ED stuff, you're asking a lot of this kid. You're asking him to chase Chet around, you're asking him to hold up against SGA and the switch when he's hunting ED. He's playing drop,

SGA doesn't care. If you try to contest the three from SGA, he's just not going to get there in time. And even if there's just a bunch of commotion and stuff and ED's ending up with different people, like if Chet's going to start in the left corner and then work his way all the way around to the right break and take a three, and this is where the Clark injury really hurts them. You know, I don't really know. There's just a lot of minutes for E.D. and it's asking him to cover a lot of stuff against really good players. And Chet's third quarter is why I feel like the Thunder are almost overlooked. You know,

it's funny because in the broadcasts are like, okay, he's going small back to that theme. It's like, or they went 2024, okay, see, Chet's the center. I mean, he may play differently than, I don't even know what a traditional center is anymore, because it's pretty normal for some of these guys at these sites to be able to do incredible things. But his shot making, the block, the protection at the rim, the help protect, all of this stuff. And then of course, like Edie came out on him to meet him at the three point line

and he's just asking a ton to turn that freighter around as Chet just blows right by him and finishes for the dunk. The other part of this is that it's a little different when you're up 10, you're up 20, you're up almost 30 and you're making shots and you're pointing to the crowd. And this isn't even like a Memphis thing. It's just in general. And then you're being tasked with making shots when OKC is cranking up the defensive pressure. Caruso's a madman out there. They're getting buckets left and right. And you're like, are we going to fucking blow this game?

That's a different level of shot making. And clearly Memphis was not up for it. Pippen Jr. was really good first half of this game, but then you've got just dudes out there. Bane was just, there was one three he took from like 30 feet away and it was early in the shot clock. And there was just a ton of those shots they were taking from so deep

because that's all that was left for them. Because if you try to multiple dribble straight line drive in traffic against the Thunder, it's just not going to work. Jaren Jackson had one great turnaround bank shot, but for him to get a catch where his back has turned to the basket from like 25 feet out, that's just a ton of real estate that you're asking him to navigate

with a dribble against his defense. It's not going to work. And I thought, okay, see, you know, with SGA having five fouls, Memphis was trying to target him, trying to get him out of the game. I don't even know that it would have mattered. I don't know that it would have mattered, because it was clear that Memphis was feeling it slip away

and every shot just was not comfortable. Just a mess, just like that last sentence. Memphis didn't score for the last, did not score a point for the last 4.51 of the game. Not a point. Here's Chet after the big comeback. To me, it look like a level coming to me. I got to do a little bit of a treat.

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See terms at sportsbook.fandl.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rd-help.com. I love talking to this guy. A great way to catch up after the first round of the NFL draft. We're going to break it all down with Albert Breer of SI.com, Monday morning quarterback and part of the Amazon's coverage of the NFL. All right, so Cam Ward goes one. Everybody kinda knew that that was coming. And then the first move on otherwise quiet night,

Cleveland trading out of the number two pick, Jacksonville moving up, taking Travis Hunter. Jacksonville in this deal they send number five So their first this year a second rounder number 36 a fourth rounder and then a 26 first rounder So quite a haul to move up What the three slots to go ahead and grab Travis Hunter so reaction to that first? Yeah, I would say like I try to look at these things like these things on timelines to some degree and I do think If you look at Cleveland, it makes sense because they've got some aging players

And I think they're just now starting to feel the effects of like all the lost draft capital in the Deshawn Watson trade where like You know Their offensive lines gotten older. They haven't really been able to replace some guys up there. They haven't really been able to fully go in on, you know, fixing the miss on Jedrick Wills. Now we'll see what happens with Dewan Jones over there, who showed some promise at left tackle.

And so, like, I think this is like a soft reset for the Browns where it's like, okay, you know, we can kind of focus on rebuilding the guts of our roster as some of the guys that we went to the playoffs a couple of times with age out, which I think is smart. Now you're giving up a generational prospect. That word gets thrown out a lot. Like obviously we haven't seen a guy like this. So it is, there is risk involved in walking away from that prospect.

And then like for the Jags, what's interesting about it is this is generally and look, like I think the Rams background of both Gladstone and Cohen plays into it because there is that, you know, willingness to treat draft picks as being expendable. But the Rams did it when they felt like they were close and the Rams did it for veteran players. In this case is this telling us the Jaguars think they're closer than maybe the general public would believe and that they're in this go for it spot where they can give up capital and they don't have to worry about filling multiple spots over the

next couple of drafts. That to me is the intriguing part. Cause like the timeline thing that makes sense for Cleveland with Jacksonville, at least on the surface, it makes less sense, but maybe their evaluation, the new guys, their evaluation, the roster's a little different. And then as far as the price goes, Ryan,

I'm not surprised it was high because a lot of teams looked at this. And I think this was what was going to make it difficult for either the Browns or the Giants to trade down from two and three. I mean, when you're talking about the fourth pick, fifth pick, the sixth pick, a lot of teams looked at those this year

and said, that's like having the 15th pick last year, or the 20th pick last year. And so I think the way you have to look at that from a Brown's perspective or a Giants perspective is you got to give me a lot because that's not like going down three picks. Like to me, prospect wise, that might feel a little bit more like going down 10 to 15 picks.

Yeah, and I love that because it also proves how stupid the value chart is for the draft picks because it doesn't account for the actual depth of each of the drafts. All right, let's talk about your guy, James Gladstone, the GM of the Jags. He's 36, I think, so there's always going to be this ageism with him, which is just the way shit works. But I'll admit, when I saw his first quote after making the trade, I then was like'll admit when I saw his first quote after making the trade, I then was like, oh, I wanna dig into this a little bit more

and watch more of this press conference. So the first line that stood out was he said, quote, for our fans, I'll tell you, don't be scared. This is something I'm uniquely positioned to navigate. We ended up bringing Travis Hunter to Jacksonville. And like, I understand, like we got Travis Hunter here, right? But I thought the line like uniquely, I was like, that was kind of a weird phrasing. And that can always be one of

those moments too. It's like, if it doesn't work out, it comes back to haunt you. So then I was like, I want to dig into it a little bit more. He has one paragraph here that I'm being totally unfair, but it just reminds me of the guy that nails the interview and is just playing the character. And this, I know his background with the Rams, so I'm not saying this is even true. I'm saying right now, I am being incredibly unfair, but I just can't handle the word choice on some of this stuff. It feels like- Corporate buzzwords type stuff. It just feels like a pitch in succession or something where it's like, Travis, in the same lens you've heard- Like touch points and-

Yeah, here's this line. In the same lens you've heard us mention the idea of adding people who are intangibly rich, and Travis, in fact, as a player, is rare. As a person, he's also rare beyond that. When we say that the idea of inviting people into our ecosystem, who by being nothing more than who they are, elevate the space, is the epitome of what Travis is.

There's a massively great Travis compliment in there. I am just telling you, I had a hard time with it. So what do I- Like he's opening the kimono? What do I- No, it just was, there were all of these words in that press conference where I'm like, all right, you know, all right, that was like, that was another one. That was another one. That was another one. And it just, all right, help. Like what am I supposed to do? Because I know I'm being a dick.

Yeah, like I just think, and look, like I'm on some text groups with some NFL people who pointed out the word choices too, I will say that. I think like part of it is, you know, one thing the Rams have done really well is sort of like the ability to see around corners and like, okay, like here's something that nobody else is doing that we're going to try and we're not afraid to try this new thing. And at one point it was something very visible when they were giving up, you know, high end draft picks at a time when like, you know, most teams were very protective of their first round picks, right? And like, so, you know, they took early swings when Sean McVay first got there for guys like Sammy Watkins and Ronald Darby,

and then it like moved to another level where all of a sudden now they're taking big shots. You know, they take the big shot on Jalen Ramsey, they take the big shot on Brandon Cooks, they take the big shot on Matthew Stafford, and they didn't have a first round pick, what was it, for like nine years, right? So like, I think that's what he's saying is like,

I think he's saying like, I'm willing because of my own experience to do things that other people wouldn't do and take shots that other people wouldn't take. Does that mean it's all gonna work out? No, like, but you know, I think that that probably is what he means with the word unique is that because of his own experience and seeing people taking that kind of shot,

those types of shots in the place he used to work, he's not gonna be afraid to take those sorts of shots in Jacksonville. And I think that's maybe where he's equating what he's doing here to the decade plus he had with the Rams. Okay, moving on. Loveland over Tyler Warren. you know, the decade plus he had with the Rams. OK, moving on. Loveland over Tyler Warren, were you surprised?

Mildly, you know, I the more I talk to people, the more it was they're just a little different from one another. And it depends on what you're looking for. One's what, three years older than the other one right so Warren's three years older than Loveland and like if you watch him and this is something like I mean even you and I who aren't scouts can see it like there's like this force of nature and this is where the Gronkowski comparison comes in I think like this fortunate force of nature element to Tyler Warren's game where it's just the way he runs. You know what, like it just looks like he is like this, like just ball of butcher knives going down the field.

And, you know, so I think that like with Tyler Warren, what consistently came up is you're gonna have to have a plan, right? Like you're going to have to have like ways to move them Like you're going to have to have ways to move them around. If you're going to get the most out of them, maybe do some of the quarterback run game stuff that Penn State did with them. Like if you want to get the very most out of them,

you're going to have to be creative and willing to do all of that, where Colston Loveland is more like a route runner, like almost like a receiver hybrid. He has effort as a blocker. He's not like that big, you know, the way Warren is. So where there's effort, maybe, you know, like you're gonna have like a little bit of, you know, where you're gonna have to manage him

in the run game a little bit. And so he's like more of like, yeah, like I could see that Travis Kelsey type of game with him where he can be a tactician and a technician and a really effective receiver right out of the box. And maybe he gains weight becomes better in the in the in the run game as a blocker down the line. Whereas with Warren is just contested catch, like, and, you know, creativity and like open, tough to bring down

all of that stuff. So they're just pretty different, you know? And I think, like, I mean, Shane Stiken being the guy who gets Tyler Warren is actually pretty interesting because of all the stuff that Stiken's done, not just in Indianapolis, but also, like, you look at the stuff they used to do in Philly, like, that was all him too, you know? And so I think it's interesting from that standpoint, just at the stuff they used to do in Philly, that was all him too. And so I think it's interesting from that standpoint, just in the way they're gonna use him.

I do understand it even if I wouldn't wanna do it, just because I love Tyler Warren that much. And the age thing is significant. But Loveland, at least in today's NFL, the Christmas, the peak athleticism from him, and it's really more going back to last year when they had a quarterback who could complete a downfield pass.

But there were moments with him where you at least understood it. You understood how something like this could happen. So I don't look at it as being egregious, even if I were sitting there and I'm like, hey, I'm taking Tyler Warren because he was one of my favorite players in college football, and I guess I wouldn't put a lot else

into the evaluation. Okay, speaking of good first rounds, did you like what Atlanta did going with two SEC guys on the edge? The price was so high to go get Pierce. Now, like my understanding is they were ready to take Pierce at 15. And then Jalen Walker, who no one, I think, expected to be there at 15 was there.

And so, like, you know, I think they kind of got put in this, all right, we like both players, and Walker is so clean character-wise. Like, I've... The stories I've heard about Jalen Walker are unbelievable. Like, I had one team tell me, you know how they ask that question of players, like which teammate would you bring with you

to the pros, right? Like every single Georgia player this team talked to said Jalen Walker, every single one of them, offense, defense didn't matter. And you know, you hear he's like a defensive coordinator in the meetings. Meanwhile, James Pierce has a bunch of character questions. So 15 overall, you're looking at it,

okay, like let's take, you know, if we're gonna break the tie here, we'll go with the guy with the clean kit, with the very clean character versus the guy with questions. And then Pierce keeps dropping and keeps falling. And now it's like, if you have two guys that you viewed as top 10 guys in the class that are both need players for you,

and you can turn what's been like a weakness for them for years now. And they tried to fix it with Matthew Judon last summer and they signed Leonard Floyd. And you've got two guys that are gonna help maybe turn a weakness into a strength like instantly. I can see where you would do that. And I like both players for Atlanta and Raheem Moore

should be able to get the most out of both players. The price was just a lot, you know, to give up a first round pick next year plus the second rounder you have. Like if you're the Rams, you're doing jumping jacks, right? Like they moved to pick down 20 spots and they got a first rounder out of it. Like that's unbelievable value for the Rams.

So I liked the concept of what the Falcons did. The price is a little much. I was shocked Walker was still there. I liked him better than Williams. I was not surprised Pierce was still there and it wasn't just the background part of it, but I just don't know that he showed up on tape this year the way you would expect him to.

I mean, he was somebody that was projected to be a top 10 guy, watch a bunch of those games. You're just like, I need to see a little bit more out of him, especially for somebody who's a little undersized on the edge part of it. But I love having two guys that you're supposed to, at least on paper, prepare for at those positions. If you just have one, you can kind of game plan somebody special out.

And one other thing that's interesting about this is see how expensive those guys are now too. Like if these guys like hit their potential, like I mean, you could be talking about having two guys who, you know, within a couple of years could be playing at like a 40 or 50 million dollar like, like, like level at on a rookie on rookie contracts. Pretty valuable. Yeah. It's actually a positive Jacksonville here is that when you look at their edge rotation too,

and that Trevon has come on quite a bit after I think the beginning of his career, this is a number one pick, what's going on out here. And there's just a lot of talent at least at that position. I just love overloading it. I love that Atlanta's like, this is clearly a weakness. If they had the high grades on the guys, then they jump back in, But the price is interesting.

Staying on that, because I'm sure the price was something you were talking about with other NFL teams, something a team did in the first round that we haven't touched on that other teams were in favor of, and then we'll go the other way with it as well. Something you're saying, like a move that other teams liked, that one team. Yeah, we'll do one.

We'll do a positive one. We'll do a negative one. So I think if you look at just kind of like a guy that, and this is in a non-sexy draft, this is a non-sexy thing to do, right? But Gray Zabel, 18, to Seattle, was one of those things where it's like everyone loved him. And it was like, Graham Barton was this guy last year, right? Can play four different positions. That was a crying need for Seattle. They got Clint Kubiak coming in. They need athletic,

versatile linemen. And I just think as far as like, you know, again, like what a cost for a great guard in the NFL. Like this is a guy who, you know, was viewed by team, like this is a future team captain for you, you know? So, you know, I think just as far as like, where other teams would say, yeah, they got that one, right. That's one. The other one I would point out, and this is actually interesting. It's like the damn it, the Ravens did it again thing. You know what I mean? Like, Malachi starts now I mocked him to the Ravens

because almost every single person I talked to said Malachi Starks is a Raven. Put him down for them. And the Georgia guys were great in their meetings this year. I mean, Jalen Walker, McHale Williams, Starks, the two offensive linemen were all awesome in their meetings this year. And it was like, everyone I talked to is like, yep, but Malachi Starks, like we met with them,

that guy's a Baltimore Raven. And sure enough, like the Ravens sit there, they don't do anything. And Malachi Starks falls right into their lap. Perfect compliment for Kyle Hamilton. I mean, they've got a chance now to be really good at safety for a long, long time to come with those two. So I think Starks is the one you look at and say, I believe he started as a true freshman at Georgia, right? Like just a kid who's really smart and versatile and everything else was ready to go right out

of the box in college. Most people expect him to be the same way in the pros. Give us something teams were confused by had scratchers. Yeah Ted McMillan at eight to care out to Carolina I I think there was some disagreement on him now. He had a wide range Like I think Jacksonville would have considered it at five if they had stuck there They probably would have taken Gentie, but would have consider it considered it at five if they had stuck there, they probably would have taken Gentie, but would have considered it. You know, and I think San Francisco was in on him too,

like really liked McPillan. I don't know if they would have taken him at 11 over Mikael Williams, but I know they liked him. So like that was one where it was like, man, like that was really rich. And you know, yes, you're investing in your young quarterback, but you have so many news. They were really bad on defense last year. Right. So passing on a Jalen Walker, a Walter Nolan, like the guys,

a Mikael Williams, guys that could have been difference makers on the defensive side of the ball. I, that got a lot of people's attention. Um, I'd say like the other one was just the price. I mean, like I hate to double back on it, but just the price that Atlanta paid to go up, you know, and get James Pierce. Not that you don't like the talent with James Pierce, but that was an interesting one, you know?

And I think like there were so many questions with so many of these guys this year at the medical, you know what I mean? Like you had Jihad Campbell, like Howie Roseman takes him at the end of the round. Some teams had him off their board, you know, two shoulders, two knees. It's an issue, you know, Will Johnson's another one.

He falls through the first round cause he's got, you know, a knee that's gonna, that's created longevity concerns. It's just an interesting draft that way. I don't think there were a lot of picks where you just say like, yeah, that's really clean. That's why I gave you Zabel and Starks is the ones that were because I think teams look to that and say that fits 100% what they're trying to accomplish. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parmesan delivered. A cabana? That's a no. But a banana? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry, no. But a box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes.

Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. The Giants. I defended the Saquon thing multiple times. I don't know what to do with this. They can look at it as having a couple of quarterbacks with the Russell Wilson part of it where James Winston's going like, what the hell's going on here? But at this point, those guys just have to battle it out. That's who they are at this point of their career. The Wilson part will make it extra annoying because he's certainly going in there thinking and then they decide to get back in.

And it's not Shador, it's Jackson Dart. And I think on the developmental side, I think it's a fair question to ask, how much development is this guy gonna be going through while you have two vets, one who thinks he's one of the premier players in the NFL probably still, and then Jameis who's probably thinking,

you know, I should be a starter. If everything were clean and I could just go into week one, I'd be a starter in this league for 17 games. And maybe I'm being unfair about Wilson's perception of himself, but at least like everything even heard post-Pittsburgh, it's like this stuff is happening again behind the scenes and the manipulation part of it. So not ideal for a Jackson Dart that's going to need those reps unless this gets in the way of all of these teams that draft the first round quarterback and say we're going to give them

time. We'd like them to sit the year and then the coach is worried about getting fired. He's like, well, if I can get some wins here week 10 with the rookie, then I can say that that's partly me. And then we're in survival mode with all these coaches. It's just a lot is the point. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's going to be some, I mean, I don't think Lane's offense anymore

is as simple as people make it out to be based on the research that I've done. So I don't know that it's as steep a learning curve as some people think. But I think there is a learning curve there. So I think Jackson would benefit from sitting. I think the question is like, where are his reps gonna come from?

Like one of the things like New England did right last year, for example, they bring in Jacoby Resett, who already knew Alex van Peltz often. So that allowed them to just have Drake May learn through a fire hose, like just keep giving him stuff and keep giving him reps in practice because Jacoby didn't need him as much. In this circumstance, you've got two quarterbacks. Not only do they both view themselves as starters,

but they also have incentives in their contract. How much money those guys are going to make in 2025 is going to be based on how much they play. And you just sort of wonder about where the dynamics are going to be there and how Brian Dayball is going to manage all of that. And I think that's a fair question to ask.

Now, can you imagine if it was Shadoor in that room with Russell Wilson and Jamis Winston? It's not to that level. I think Jackson Dart will come in and like I think he'll I think he'll be a good soldier and do the right thing. That's everything I know everything I've learned about him. It seems like he is that way so I think that part will be fine but yeah my question would be like you got two guys who more or less have their careers as starting quarterbacks on the line. Are you gonna take practice reps away from them and give them to Dart? Like, how do you manage that?

I think that's a little bit of a challenge for the Giants for sure. And I had to laugh too when it was like, Jackson's like a culture tone setter. And you're just like, you don't know that. What are you talking about? I think it just becomes the point where the draft actually gets here.

I'm so sick of reading about everything. And I would say that the hit rate on interesting quotes during some of the interviews, and granted, the players are young and all that kind of stuff, it just feels like a recycling of the same stuff over and over again for hours and hours. However, unfortunately, the biggest headline out of all of this was just waiting on Shador.

And I don't know if Mel having Shador is best available. Because when you saw that he had him as high as he did before the draft even started, and then he's number one for what felt like three hours, you're like, this is going to, the optics of this make it look even worse. I'd say based on conversations, again, I'm not a reporter. It was, it was surprising as the mock season was building up how many people that I would talk to, just that I liked

talking football with them, would go, you know, I don't know why people have Shador in the top 10. You know, it was just kind of a general, like why is he in the top 10? Then we had Quincy Avery on, who works with everybody, who essentially said if it wasn't Sanders, is his last name, he'd be a six round pick,

which, you know, again, seemed pretty harsh on that side of it. And so then Shador drops, and he's waiting to see if his name is called tonight. Your thoughts on what became kind of the overriding storyline? Yeah. Well, I've been saying for a while that I,

the best way I could describe it is I think he's like Bo Nix last year in that, not stylistically, but like in that Bo Nix, there's a good chance he falls out of the first round if there's not a fit for him. Now I think there were two teams last year that would have considered taking him in the first round. One's the Broncos who did take him at 12 and the other is the Saints.

I'm not sure one way or the other, but I think it would have been consideration for them at 14, if not, I think he falls out of the first round. So the reason for that is because Bo Nix doesn't have the overwhelming physical characteristics that you normally see that high in the draft. And if you're in a team in, say, the AFC and you're looking at it, you're like, OK,

what's going to put us in position where we're going to be able to beat some combination of Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, CJ Stroud, Drake May, maybe put Trevor Lawrence in there. I'm going to have to beat potentially three of those teams in succession. Is this guy going to be good enough to get me there? And without the physical characteristics, it's harder to to envision that so you need to have fit work for you. Bo Nix found a place where fit works for him and he was a rookie of the year candidate, the rest of it doesn't matter. And I just don't know that Shadour found that fit.

I would tell you this flat out 100% like I had a really hard time finding anyone, coach, scout, anyone who thought he was a first round talent. Now there were some people who liked him for different reasons, but talent wise, he wasn't a first rounder. And I think the fact that he kept getting pushed into this top five, top 10 category, to me, did the kid a disservice.

Cause I think in some people's minds, it almost became a lock that he was going to be a first round pick. And so I think he started handling his pre-draft process like he was a lock top 10 pick. And it's like, well, I don't want to go there. I don't want to go there. I mean, Ryan, there are five guys every year, maybe eight,

10 guys every year that can conduct their process that way legitimately. Like Abdul Carter only took four visits. Well, that's because he's Abdul Carter, right? Like, so he doesn't need to visit the team that has the seventh pick or the eighth pick or the ninth pick. He's that good a prospect. Shadour was conducting himself that way, even though he wasn't that type of prospect. He was like the other 230 some odd players in the draft that have to go in with an open mind and have to impress every team because a lot of different scenarios are on the table. And so like I think that made it even harder to find his fit, right? Because he's just predetermined in some cases.

Well, I don't think that's the right place. I don't think that's the right place. I mean, I know one team where when they were watching tape and they question him on a couple of things they asked him what he thought And you know the answer was well, maybe this place isn't the fit for me. Like what? You know what? I mean, like it's just you're you're in a job interview and so I think like these narratives that He was a top. He was gonna be a top five or top ten pick automatic Did the kid at his service.

I don't think he was ever viewed as a first round talent by the majority of the league. And unfortunately, because this narrative built in the fall that he was a first rounder, and then you get into the spring and he's got that in his head that he is one, even though people like me are saying, I can't find people that are talking that way about him. I think wound up really hurting him and I know you know our mutual friend McShea like I know that was one reason why he used to hate doing the the mock drafts in May for the year ahead right like it's because it would actually do damage to

kids. Kids would get the wrong idea sometimes about who they were because all the work hadn't been done yet. And that was a long-winded answer. I apologize for that. No, I mean, look, some of these interviews are you and I discussing things. Some of them are straightforward questions, but I do wanna stay on this and talk about it a little bit

because I don't know when it shifted, but it just seems like people are very unrealistic about what this process is. Yeah, they're kids and as you get older, you have like a better appreciation for that. I know that I'm not the same way when I talk about college athletes at my age now as I was in my 20s and my 30s.

And maybe that's a nice thing. But we're talking about guys that are about now as I was in my 20s and my 30s. And maybe that's a nice thing. But we're talking about guys that are about to become professional athletes for millions of dollars. And part of the evaluation is, is this guy good enough? Is this guy the right fit? Is the personality the right thing? And then once it starts diving into the personality, it leads to a lot of conversations, accusations

of race being involved and all this stuff. And I just feel like we've lost sight of what can be the simplest thing is maybe there's just a bunch of NFL teams that didn't think he was that good. And maybe there were a few teams that were on the fence about him and the tiebreaker was that he didn't kill it in the interview. And then it turns into all of these other things

like these cryptic people at work trying to damage a kid's name. And it's like, maybe it's not that, maybe it's not that nefarious. And so if he fucked up a couple interviews with teams that weren't 100% sure about his physical ability and didn't necessarily love the tape, then that's going to downgrade him. And you're absolutely right. It's the same thing as the Rogers draft.

You knew when Rogers wasn't selected past a certain point that he was going to go into a free fall, because unless somebody traded up to go grab him, there were a bunch of teams stacked up towards like, it doesn't really make sense for them to take him. Generally don't need quarterbacks. Yeah, that's the other part of it. So then once you realized, you know, if he doesn't go to the saints or nobody else moves in, like you could be heading for a freefall here.

Then you have the Steelers part of it. Then you have the giants part of it. And it feels like a lot of these themes get recycled over and over again, which I feel like are applied in certain areas that make a lot of sense and have us question or evolve into how we're talking about certain things. But I can't help but resist some of it when it cycles back to some of the sports things where it's like, do you really actually think that all of these people are out to get Shador Sanders or did the NFL at times, which they're very good at doing, collectively telling us what they think about a player,

whether it's in free agency or the draft. And Chador, unfortunately for him with all the hype, is incredibly disappointed, which I don't know that anybody, again, maybe there's a lot of assholes out there that were rooting for his disappointment. I don't know that I am, but I know that I'm also in a position

where I feel like months and months of this leading up and then him having a bad night leads to all of these massive accusations and then maybe a little victory lapping of like How could you do this to a kid or how could you say this and have his name on your mouth and all this different stuff? He's just like you're like dude. It's the draft it's just the draft and some guys go later than you think and And sometimes there's a reason and sometimes in this case It could be as clear as just a lot of offensive coaches not loving the tape later than you think. And sometimes there's a reason. And sometimes in this case, it could be as clear as just a lot of offensive coaches

not loving the tape. I cringed when I saw the Tom Pelicero quote, the quote that he got getting circulated the way it did. Because I do that same story. He does the same story that I do every year, which is diving into the quarterbacks and talking to coaches and talking to people who know what they're talking about,

about these guys. And the only way that you're gonna get these guys to tell you the truth, you know this, Ryan, is you have to give them an amenity. They have to be able to go, to be real about it. That's the only way they can discuss these things. And do you want the truth is my question, you know what I mean? Like, do you want the truth?

Because these guys, like, I would hope people could trust me having covered the league for 20 years that I'm not getting the wool pulled over my eyes, that I'm going to people that I can trust, that I'm going to people that have given me the truth over the years, that I'm going to people that, where I see like, okay, they said positive things about these four kids, but he wasn't as hot on this kid.

And then it matches up with what another guy said. And then it matches up with what another guy said. Like, I don't take that lightly. Like, that's a really, like, that's someone's future that I'm dealing with. So the truth is the most important thing. I wanna be fair. And so, like I'm not going to print something like this. And I think Tom's the same way.

Like, I'm not going to print something like that unless I have it like that. It's corroborated by other people saying it. And it's from a person that I really trust who's always told me the truth. I mean, there's stuff I leave out of mine to be fair to people, you know? But if told me the truth. I mean, there's stuff I leave out of mine to be fair to people, you know?

But if you want the truth, that's usually what's in these stories. And in a lot of cases, like I remember Nolan O'Rourke used to get killed for this stuff. If you go back and you look, like 99% of it's true. You know, I can remember. And this is the big- The Nolan O'Rourke thing was insane

because then it became the annual, what did Nolan O'Rockey thing was insane because then it became the annual, what did Nolan O'Rockey say about somebody's character in the draft guide, which would then focus on like one player or two players, completely ignoring the fact of how many glowing character evaluations you would have of hundreds of other college football players. That was like one of the strangest things that started to happen like 10 years ago or so.

And now it's an annual of, I hate the entire process because one person seems to be paying some sort of price. And I'm always thinking, okay, maybe everybody's wrong. And to your point, the anonymous thing, like it's just kind of the way business is done. And to do the, well, I can't believe if you're gonna say that, then put your name on it. Well, no one fucking does that. Then we wouldn't have any trade rumors, I can't believe if you're going to say that, then put

your name on it. Well, no one fucking does that. Then we wouldn't have any trade rumors. We wouldn't have any draft rumors. We'd have no rumors whatsoever. Because I really would ask fans, if you're mad about the anonymous part, are you so mad about it that you don't want any of the leaks and all the stuff that we all enjoy on a day-to-day basis of trying to figure out, I don't think you want that trade-off. I don't think that people understand what they're talking about with that. Do you wanna watch the draft

and see a guy fall three rounds and not know why? Do you want that to happen? Because to me, for my career, the most obvious example is Aaron Hernandez. He was drafted in the fourth round in 2010. And, you know, I had built up some background on him. And then he went to the Patriots rookie mini camp and like looked like Antonio Gates out there.

It was like, oh my God, like, look what they have. How is this guy available in the fourth round? And I knew. So then I dug into it and I did more background. And I didn't print the worst stuff I'd heard. I corroborated everything. I talked to a dozen teams about it. And I put the story out.

I was at the Globe at the time. And in the aftermath, Hernandez and the Patriots worked to bury me for it. But it was all true. I knew it was true. And that was why he fell in the draft. And I'm not taking a victory lap on that. But it was like, that stuff exists.

And it's why. And if you don't want to know why, then you don't have to consume it. If you don't want to know why, there are plenty have to consume it. If you don't know, if you don't want to know why, there are plenty of places where you can get your entertainment where you don't have to find out about that. But there's a lot of people that want to know, why is this great player who maybe should have been

the fifth overall pick going 30th, right? Why is this guy that the media has turned into a superstar still available in the second or third round of the draft. If you wanna know the truth on that, sometimes the truth is something that isn't gonna sound very good for the people involved. Right, and for the record, clearly not comparing Sandstorm and other things. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's the most extreme example. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the most extreme example, but it happens all the time. And it's like, you know Teams put millions and millions and millions of dollars into finding out who these people are It matters to them What I think is bullshit is I'll just end it here is that there are people in the media that would have you believe Sanders was gonna go in the top five last night and then because of a couple anonymous quotes about meetings not going well that somehow that over

because of a couple anonymous quotes about meetings not going well that somehow that over overruled the tape and then like the next 25 teams were like no we don't want to take him. Alright so let's close on this. Yep. Do you think he goes as the first pick to the Browns tonight in the second round? I've heard Kevin Stefanski likes Tyler Shuck, the quarterback from Louisville. so we'll see. Somebody said to me, like if Shooter Word goes in the first round, it's gonna be because an owner got involved, which was kind of funny, funny way to put it. I don't know if that's really in play anymore. I'm not sure where he goes, to be honest with you.

Now he's got the relationship with Brady. I think there's some split opinion in the Raider building though on his ceiling. So, you know, I'm not sure, you know, I'm not sure where he goes. I don't think the Saints take him. You know, like it's just, there's a lot of uncertainty now. And look, history tells you,

like when these guys fall out of day one, in a lot of cases, they fall right through the second round. I think it's, I did the background on this. Let me pull it up. in a lot of cases they fall right through the second round. I think it's, I did the background on this. Let me pull it up. The number was, so this is going back, I went back 25 years. So the draft class is from 2000 to 2024, right till last year.

And the results are pretty interesting. In the first round, 75 quarterbacks taken, in the second round, 24, in the third round, 33. So like a third of the amount of quarterbacks went in the second round that went in the first round, and you can combine second round and third round, you're still well short of first round. The reason why is because if you view a guy as a long-term starter for you, you're going to take him in the first round,

and if he isn't, you're probably gonna fill another position with a second or third round pick. So I think once you get past that first round for quarterbacks, things can get a little sketchy. So I think Tyler Shuck and Shadour are probably, and Jalen Milro, those three I think are the next three off the board, but I'm not sure in what order. Yeah, because you're right, because if it's Browns going QB

with one of their two picks, which are the top four picks. 33 and 36. The Texans aren't taking one, the Titans aren't taking one, you have the Raiders there, that's possible, although again, I'm not sure on that. Patriots, no, Bears, no, Saints at eight. And then once you get past there, I don't think the Jets would do it.

I mean, now- The Bears, the Niners, Dallas, the Colts. Look, maybe somebody moves in and says, okay, enough of this. And I think one of the things that I felt bad for with Sanders last night was, you know, he's got the setup so then everybody's gonna laugh at him

for having this setup, which is the victory lap on however you feel about Colorado and the number being retired. And I felt horrible for the kid, you know? Like it sucks. I feel bad for him that the number is retired because clearly that's a Deon thing of like, all right, well Travis Hunter makes sense

because he was the one, the Heisman. The Shador thing was a little weird. So there's a lot of ammunition there for people that are going to hate on Shador to go with. And I can't imagine like being that young and doing the whole setup and the whole thing and then you don't even get picked that entire night. But the ESPN draft probability,

which now has designed perhaps an even more pointless stat than win probability, because win probability added no depth of understanding. They still throw it up on all of the broadcast broadcast every now and then, not every single one like constantly, but they like to throw it. Well, it's just not interesting. It's not interesting. I understand it. But this draft probability thing of like 91% chance that he would have been taken by the 24th. You can tell me you put a bunch of math in the old meat grinder. And came up with this thing.

What's that based on mock drafts? It just. I mean, it's like, it's like, it drives me crazy when people like act as if the betting odds, like some guy in a smoky room in Vegas has a pipeline to like 32 war rooms. You know what I mean? Like drives me nuts.

It's like, no, like that guy just read something that I wrote or that Adam said, or that, you know, Ian said, and they're just taking it and pinning it. They're saying, oh, there it is. And then the line moves. I don't know. That stuff drives me nuts. This is even worse, I think, because it's just, well,

there was a 6% chance that he would still be available. Then there was a 1% chance he would be available past this pick, so they keep throwing it up there. It's like, based on what? That's the thing. It's like, there's a 1% chance he would be available past this pick. So they keep throwing it up there. It's like, based on what? That's the thing. It's like, based on what? Well, I know whoever did it. And I'm like, I knew some of those people.

And I really like the work they do. Yeah. But that is being so extra. And it was like, you don't really need it. Because this is not. I mean, even wind probability, I understand what that's based on. Ryan, you know what that sounds like to me?

That sounds to me like the draft's really popular. We should be involved in the draft. Right? Yeah. That or my contract's up. And so I'm going to create draft probability availability numbers. And then they're just going to keep putting it up there

over and over and over again. And I know now this will get back to them and I'm really sorry if you're super pissed off because there's a couple of people over there it could be somebody over there who I really like and still talk to I don't know I maybe talk to him anymore yeah or that is the end of the relationship probability of us still being friends 1% all All right, thanks, Breer. We're definitely going down. As that discussion continue. When are you gonna have a big draft wrap up on this, on Monday?

Yeah, Monday I'll have a bunch of stuff, have some video stuff and all of that. And then, yeah, I still do some cleanup work over the next couple of weeks. So we'll have a bunch of stuff on the background and how stuff happened and team strategies with what they did and all of that. Okay, sounds great, man.

Albert Brewer, si.com and Amazon and we'll have you on again soon. And now it's time for today's winning bundle segment presented by State Farm. In basketball, it's all about that trusted coach-player connection. When a coach has a player's back, bold plays happen just like when your team has every

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Kind of like a second round NBA team. I hate when I watch these games and I'm like, I wonder which two super good players are gonna get hurt and then change, you know, because it just feels so normal. I'm a little sensitive because now everyone's calling the magic dirty. And I just don't think, it's a hard fought playoff series.

They have a talent deficiency and yeah, a couple of guys got dinged up. I don't think the poor Zingus thing, I don't think Goga intentionally elbowed him in the face. The flagrant foul on KCP in game one was I thought BS. It was just like a hard foul on Tatum and he fell down awkwardly. But I don't know, like I I it feels like fan bases are more sensitive than ever to like, I don't know, the contact stuff.

It's like, hey, man, this is playoff basketball. What are we doing? Didn't expect to get a magic minute here, but well, I got my shirt on. I'm fired up. I mean, Bill's getting he's been getting in my ear, calling his team, little nods to them being dirty. I'm just sensitive. That's what it is.

Yeah, I look, I, you know. I think the dirty plays in general, it's just weird how, like the broadcast, it just feels like whenever we're watching the replay, and I'm talking about like some of my favorite announcers, there's just this disconnect of what we're all watching at home and then what the announcers are saying. And I think sometimes I've only done play by play a few times, but I remember when I did a couple Celtics games how lost I was because I was trying to keep track of a million

things. Now granted, just being thrown into it and doing Celtics play-by-play after I had only done minor league baseball on radio, it wasn't like I had a big lead up where I'd been grinding for years and was ready. So I'm looking at all this stuff, I'm trying to figure out what's going on. So sometimes you could actually lose sight of the thing that you need to keep track of because again, I just wasn't good at it. And there was no reason to expect that I was, I was just at least serviceable and because I worked for their station, I was free and that's what it was.

Like I still think I was supposed to submit for per diem that I never got. So when I try to figure out why I'm watching the Jalen green, Draymond Green elbow in that game. And yes, Jalen Green gets Draymond in the face, but it was almost like an elbow wash as opposed to just a hard elbow to his face. And the fact that Draymond goes with such a delayed,

like assassin deal, or it's just such an embellishment. And then Draymond's down. And then it feels like it takes the announcers more replays to at least get there. But since they started with, oh, that's bad, then maybe they don't want to correct themselves on the fly. Like, and Brian Anderson is the play by play guy. Like I understand like he's trying, like Stan has to in that moment be quicker on Draymond. There was contact, but, you know, and that was always my default thing with Mark Jackson, he showed me crazy, he's like anytime we ever looked

at a foul and he'd be like, oh, there's contact there. And you'd just be like, dude, but there's not, there's elements to this. So the Goga thing, it looks like he winds up a little, but I didn't. I didn't think he thought, I didn't think he knew Porzingis was there. And by the way, shout out to Porzingis for handling that like an absolute champ. Like that's the way you handle bleeding from the face. I will have the ultimate respect for that, dude.

I know he's been injury prone in his career, but like, you know, he, he didn't really milk it like the milking. It is like you got blood on your face, dude, like everybody knows you got hit. So I actually really respected the way he handled that but even just like in the Memphis game last night Like I don't I don't think that that play on job was necessarily dirty I think it was pretty unfortunate, but man you just got and to your point about the broadcast thing Yeah, like I and Eagles not like on Twitter checking in what like Jerry and Dorchester is thinking about you know What how whether or not that was a dirty play or not, like they don't have the benefit

of the community feeling that a lot of us have when we watch on social media. And, you know, I think that sometimes skews, you know, the way fans that are on that platform think. But like maybe the broadcast has no idea that that's going on. It was like kind of like that with the Sridhar Sander stuff last night with Mel Kuyper just talking about Sridhar after every pick. And he probably doesn't. I don't even know if a producer or anyone really knows that like,

hey, maybe we should tell him not to talk about Sador after every single pick. He doesn't get made. Yeah, it was just tough for Mel because when it was best available, when you had it up that are you were like, man, he's going to ride this one out. I know he's just going to he's just going to ride this out. I know a Jerry from Dorchester, so great. Nice. Good for him. Dorchester, part of Boston, just historically

if you weren't with the pod when it was sort of like what's thought of as Boston versus what is technically Boston, that was a fucking problem. I'm glad. Yeah. I don't know if we've gotten through it, to be honest with you. OK, I hate honey roasts.

This is a new one. Six foot, 235. I plug my strengths and weaknesses into a chat GPT and it says my pickup comp is Grayson Allen or Doug Christie with a strap but no defense. So two interesting ones. Yeah. Man, I don't know if that's a good thing.

Simple question, am I a jerk for hating honey roasts? If you don't know, honey roasts are just the opposite of roast, everyone goes around and says something they love or appreciate about a particular person. Did you know about this? I have never heard of this before. I have not, I just looked it up. I hate it already, I hate it.

So no, you're 100% in the right. You know what I love about you is how honest you are, Steve. Thanks. See, I just, it's not like, it's not like I don't like a good compliment, but like if we're doing a thing where it's like, Hey, let's go around the room and say something nice about everyone. Like what are we in kindergarten? I don't know. What have we brought it back? All right. Context. My wife and I lead and host a weekly Bible study in a small contingent

of our 12 members push hard for us to do honey roast at every person's birthday celebration before our discussion. We eat a meal and talk for about an hour before going and reading and discussion of the Bible for another hour. While this seems like a nice gesture, I hate it. Here's why. One, it monopolizes the conversation about one person. No one gets to talk about anything else during our meal prior to Bible discussion. The compliments feel fake and conjured up on the spot like they wouldn't have been said had it not been obligatory.

It feels self-serving for someone to force other people to say nice things about them, especially when the focus of the evening is to have a community and learn about the Bible. It's not like we don't acknowledge the person's birthday. My wife and I are great cooks and buy or make the person a free meal of their choosing. My wife also makes them custom professional grade cake from her baking

business that would normally run for close to a hundred bucks. I just don't like that it messes up the very intentional agenda. We try to follow for the sake of something that feels self-serving. Am I the a-hole for hating honey roast? And if I'm not, then how would you go about nicely telling folks we aren't doing it anymore? Wow, yeah. Look, I think the guy makes some good points.

I just would wonder like, where are you on this? It sounds like it's sort of your thing, so maybe you have a little bit more juice than just a regular guy in the room. It sounds like you're above replacement guy. I mean, how long does it go? If it's 12 people and it's their birthday and everybody said, are we talking five minutes here? I mean, this doesn't sound like a Netflix special.

So I would ask if the approval rating, if there's more yeas than nays in the room on this, is it worth? Because if people are very into this and think it's great, they're going to think you're a lunatic. Even though we agree with you and we're on your side, I think there's a lot of equity potentially at stake here for you to lose over something that seems pretty manageable if we're talking about, although I guess if it's weekly, pretty manageable if we're talking about, although I guess if it's weekly, 12 people in the group, 14, we're talking now like 20% of these things,

kicking off a little honey roast. Yeah, I could see how that could get annoying. Yeah, I'm out because this is like the thing where you don't buy your significant other flowers, you buy them on the holidays, but those kind of don't mean things. If you buy your flowers and chocolate on Valentine's Day, it's like, cool, everybody does. Just because.

You do it on the off, you do it on a random Wednesday. I remember the reads. Because that means, yeah, exactly. That means you're thinking of her not just when you're scheduled to think of her. And if you're scheduling to say nice things about people, like I wouldn't, that's not genuine. That's not like, I guess, but hey, Ryan, nice shirt today. You know, but if I, but if I'm told that I have to say something nice to you, are you going to feel good about it? I don't, maybe people really like that. And they just want the positive energy and that's just not who I am. So I'm,

I'm totally with you. I don't know that I have any great advice as to how to get out of it. Cause you're right. It's going to make you sound like an asshole up like 80% of the people there like this. And it makes them feel good. Um, you probably just have to suck it up. Maybe you can just be the guy that's really extra nice that doesn't participate, but again, does nice things for people outside of this exercise. That way you're a nice guy, but you don't feel like you're a phony either.

Yeah. Could you go with compliments that are actually insults? Like your teeth look whiter than normal? Would you go with compliments that are actually insults? You know, like, hey. Like your teeth look whiter than normal. Yeah, you don't smell that bad. Well, that's like the old John Kruk. There was like a commercial with John Kruk where he goes, my wife says I'm not as disgusting as I used to be. And it was like for like one of those

male testosterone pill things. And it's just like, what? Yeah, I'm glad he got paid to say that, but like, that's, that's insane. You're not as disgusting as you used to be. Good, good. Yeah, that's an interesting one. Um, my guess is your job is glowing. Yeah. My, my guess would be that I think the group probably likes them. I mean, it would be the ultimate epiphany if you just were like working behind the scenes,

political locker room lawyer type, like, hey, we get another birthday coming up. Like Deb's thing, like, where are you on the honey roasts? Are those kind of weird? And then it's the worst thing ever. Like, I remember there was a guy, and I've told a version of the story, but there was a guy like I immediately didn't like before everybody else did,

and I shared that with somebody else. I was like, I think that guy might suck, man. And everybody loved him. And they were like, dude. And then, you know, being early, it's my cross to bear on a lot of stuff. We have a guy like that in our life. Yeah, but I was right.

A year later, dudes were like, man, did you nail that? I know. I know. That's a great feeling. I tried to tell you. Well, it wasn't great for the first couple months, when dudes are thinking about icing me out, because they just thought I was a dick.

I was like, no, I'm just telling you, this guy kind of sucks. So anyway, now we're not really even talking about Honey Rose. My mind is still sort of semi-blown that there's a term for this kind of thing, but is there really, is your annoyance, is it too high of a price to pay for people to probably feel good about themselves in this little thing?

Or maybe it's about the prep. Maybe it's like, hey, if we're doing these honey roasts, we're doing them right. You can't just fucking forget and then say you like somebody's blouse. Like it has to be earnest and it has to be real. And if they're not real enough, we're not doing it. Once summer starts, we're done. We've done. I said, I like it. We haven't done anything good for that guy at all.

I think you got to just suck it up, though. This is you don't want, I don't know. There's probably plenty of people out there like you guys are assholes. Like just say nice things about people. It's not that hard. Yeah, I could see how it's annoying. We did have a lot of people asking for a follow up on the chair guy. So if that guy could follow up and let us know how this all went down, that would be huge for the audience because people are,

are pretty. When was the calendar invite? Was it, was it Friday? Was it today? I forget when they, when the guy put the calendar, wasn't it? Or was it this Friday? No, we read it Tuesday. Didn't we? We read it. Tuesday's pod. So I think it was the end of this week. So it might be today. Today might be the day as we're recording this. That's right. Like he may have, may or may not have gotten his ass. It's almost lunchtime. Yeah. It's almost lunchtime on the East coast.

Things could be going down. God could have an entire new career right now, or he could be talking to a lawyer. We could be in jail. That's probably why he's not emailing. There's a lot going on in that guy's day. All right. Did I read this one about the girlfriend's parents? No. Fan of the show, I usually only tune into

life advice segments since I just listened on the train. All right, well, thanks for joining us. Names are below or change. I've been dating my girlfriend Emily for two years. We're moving in together this summer. We recently signed a lease and are both very excited to live together. Last night she mentioned that each of her parents divorced are looking forward to visiting and sleeping on our couch. I immediately said I was not

okay with that and they should just get a hotel. I wanted to set a boundary early so that I could avoid a lifetime of them staying in my house and annoying me. An argument ensued, which ended up me saying that if we started down this road, it would lead me to resenting her parents forever? That's excessive, dude. Do I have to inevitably accept that they will stay at our place or is the right move staying strong in this so I can keep them out of my home for the foreseeable future?

This guy is stern. He's riding a tight ship over there. Look, not everybody's the same. It would blow my mind at this stage if I were, I guess I should probably say a parent. But yeah, I would not want to impose and sleep on somebody's couch at this stage in my life, even as a nonparent, because nobody's in the cutie beginning married here that I'd be dealing with. The fact that they're also divorced is sort of weird,

but I guess they get along well enough to even suggest this as a possible option. I don't think you needed to lay the hammer down necessarily that way. I wouldn't want it either, all right? It would bum me out. Maybe at a certain age, maybe being a little bit younger, I wouldn't even it either, all right? It would bum me out. Maybe at a certain age, maybe being a little bit younger, I wouldn't even realize that, hey, this is something

I probably don't necessarily want to get involved in here. But if they crash in your couch this time, I don't know that it means that you're signing up to a lifetime agreement of constant lodging disruptions. Okay? So I think you may have lost your mind a little bit constant lodging disruptions. So I think you may have lost your mind a little bit on that last one of like, I'm going to resent them forever.

You probably should have held that one in the holster. So you're gonna have to work your way out of that one. You dug a hole to start. Yeah, you're down 10 nothing in two minutes in. Just so you know, if you see it's on the couch, I'm gonna hate your dad for 40 years. Yeah, people, the reason I say that is people are different. I would say some of my experiences with family members in particular, especially when things

weren't exactly crushing for me, I almost felt like I was being tested to see how inconvenienced I could be, which meant that I cared about my family. So if I had said, hey, why don't you get a hotel? First of all, that conversation would have gone nowhere. All right, it's about the parents. Some people in life look at, it's just one huge tab. And if they don't get charged for a room at your inconvenience, that's such a massive win for them that they don't care.

Obviously, we have to touch on what their financial situation is here. If they can cover a hotel room and they want to do this to you, it feels a bit like a test. The divorce thing is really throwing me off here. It could also be that they're super, super attached to their little girl. And so they want to wake up and be in the mix and they feel like if they're at a hotel, then they're kind of like doing commutes to come visit you and it's not as much fun. Like I've been at family gatherings, especially when I was younger, where everybody did just stay in whoever, like whatever the grandmother's

house was and where the room was. And then if there were other people that were local, that relatives, everybody was just crashing everywhere. So everybody was kind of together the entire time, as opposed to like now I'm hotel guy. If I go home home, I'm still a hotel guy because I usually have to do some kind of work. I have to figure out a way to get back to do what I'm doing.

But like those moments where it's not necessarily the event but you're just around, almost like when you're younger and you're going to have some sort of buddies weekend, if you're really young, you probably shouldn't all be doing hotels. You should be finding some central base where it's just the basic fuck around of the sofa and the video games and the storytelling

and all the nonsense and the zins, I guess now. A dad probably wouldn't be, you know, like you would think he doesn't care about any of that kind of stuff. So, man, I don't know, Saruti, like I really wouldn't want this, but. I wouldn't either. I mean, have really wouldn't want this, but. I wouldn't either. I mean, have you ever had to deal with anything like this?

So my parents moved away. They live in Cape now. They're both retired. And so when they come back to see our daughters now, they like to stay at the house. And I think they knew it was kind of an inconvenience though. Like we don't have like a ton of room and we also both work at home. So like we're not just like, you know, we don't get to get out of the house. Like they're just kind of around. But they

have to say they have the self-awareness to know that like, make sure we do this kind of few and far between. And then my in-laws are there. They never do that. They they they kind of understand, I think the boundaries a little bit more than that. That's why I kind of lean and far between. And then my in-laws are there, they never do that. They kind of understand, I think the boundaries a little bit more than that. That's why I kind of lean in this case towards, like, do you think the parents are pumped about, maybe they, I'm sure they're maybe not pumped about doing this either.

And maybe this is just kind of like their financial situation. I don't know, like, I feel like you would have probably said that if that was the case though. But I do kind of think there's something to when you open that door and allow them to do this one, two, three times at the beginning, like it just becomes the new normal. So I guess you kind of overreacted by maybe, you know, ratchet up to a 10 with your girlfriend. But I think you are correct in that if you let this if you let the slide now, like you

can't put the cat back in the bag eventually. This is just a new normal of your life. So I don't know, if you really like the girl, this can't really be a deal breaker. It's gonna have to be something that you live with. You know it sucks. How many visits, too? We're also talking, we thinking of Christmas

and a birthday here? Is it twice a year? Yeah, if it's a couple times a year, then whatever. Yeah, if it's every month, and they're spending a long weekend on the couch, that's's, that's a pretty big, it's a pretty big inconvenience. And I would understand your, your problem. I think there's gotta be some sort of compromise. Um, does your, does your girl, does she, like she's cool with them just staying, I guess, I don't know. Like maybe I feel like she, after a while, your own parents, even if it's your own parents, like you

would be kind of annoyed to be like, hey guys, give us some space here. We're like, we just moved in together. Like we don't, I don't know. Maybe people that act differently, I would probably approach it from a different way, but I don't know, maybe she's cool with it. Maybe she wants that. Do you think there's any case this guy's like,

how broke are her parents? That's- And now he's like going, what am I marrying into here? Well, you know, can't buy love, you know? Yeah, I'll put you in a tough spot on that one. I don't, I would have to know logistically how close they are, how often they plan on visiting. You know, can you not handle one or two visits a year?

Right, I mean maybe this guy is a real, he's a real regimented guy. I can't have disruption. And this is going to screw it up. How am I going to watch CNBC on the couch when I have a divorced couple fumbling through throw pillows? If they weren't divorced, would you think it would feel differently about it?

I think it adds a layer to confusion. Or maybe they're just the most chill people ever. And they're like, we made a kid. And if you sleep on that couch and I sleep on this couch, it's not that big of a deal. And we're both saving money in a hotel room. I mean, the finance part of this is very real. But if they can handle a hotel room,

depending on where they're able to visit you, and I imagine even at the lowest end of things, like saving, like you usually can figure out some place to stay if you have to be somewhere for something. I don't know. For the record, I agree with the Evo. Like I think, I think them being divorced and wanting to stay on the couch together, there's something there that's that's off. Then I know I would. We don't know that, though.

What we don't know that like we're talking about a rekindling of the vibe. No, no, no, no. I just like that they want us. They want to just I don't know that they want to both stay at your place. There's there's just something off about it. I'm going to be you know, we need more information, but I'm with the email. I would not be cool with this at all. I just think, unfortunately, if you like your girl, which it seems like you do, and she wants this to happen,

this is part of the compromise that relationships are. You gotta figure out the math. Is it worth this kind of fight? You shouldn't have said you're going to resent them forever. What kind of math are we talking? How many visits? Is it the first time their little girl's moving in with the fiance, the guy she's going to marry?

It's their first place with the other person. Maybe they're excited about these different stages of life and they want to just kind of join in. Maybe they cannot afford it, which is totally understandable and they're hoping that you can help them a little bit. Or maybe- Do you maybe offer them like a, hey, we'll get you a hotel room? Is that like a thing that's on the table? And then not every time, but like maybe you do it once and it kind of like at least shows them that, hey, we don't really want you to be here in the house staying over as a kind olive branch at the start.

Mr. Jones, are you going to type in Bonvoy 15? All right, that'll do it for us. And congrats, Saruti on kid number two and you'll be gone. This is it for you, right? Yeah, I'm taking a little bit of time, so I'll be off for a bit, but I'll be around. Let me know if you need me. You know, but need to get some sleep.

It's been a long couple weeks. Before we say goodbye to everybody, to wish you a great weekend, how about we make it even better? How about a four-legged Rosillo? You got anything from FanDuel? You've been baking up at home? Yeah, and when I even plugged it in,

it's gone up since then. So this one's a little different. Lakers in Minnesota. Straightforward line on this one. Minnesota favored by three. Should have factored in the game one home loser and how often they win game two and how often they win game two and how often they win game two by double digits.

So plus five and a half felt like a nice number on this matchup, but history tells us if game one home team loses, they come back with a vengeance game too. So let's see, this game may, or this series may just shift around a bunch. So here's what we're doing. We're staying away from the number on this one.

We're playing a little under. These games have gone under this year with these two teams matching up. So a little under Under 208 with three overs Julius Randall over one and a half made threes Nasrid over one and a half made threes Nasrid LeBron James LeBron James over one and a half made threes. So this baby is plus 1228 right now. They said, can you do something plus 425? I go, how about I triple that? How about I just absolutely go for it? So yeah, plus 1228, I think based on that payout,

potential payout. That's some juicy action for you right there. You're rooting against and under while you're rooting for three players to hit two, three. So you're going to be conflicted all night, but America loves conflict. So there you go. Thanks to our guys for stepping up in the absence of others today on this podcast. As always, thanks to Saruti and thanks to Ronick and Gahau in on this show. They work on Bill's

show. So stepping in for Kyle, who was drafted last night, number four by the New England Patriots. I didn't even know he was eligible for the draft, but I'm so pumped. He kept it pretty secret. And Wargon for, I forget what he was doing. That's the Ryan Roussela podcast. You can check us out on the video app on Spotify and also our YouTube page. Thanks for listening. Ryan Russell Podcast, Ranger Spotify. They were gonna name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it, so they named me Michael Jared. Must be 21 and older, present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut,

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