The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Ja Morant’s Massive Leap With Chris Vernon. Plus Willie Colon on Big Ben’s Goodbye and Playing With Antonio Brown.

Episode Date: January 5, 2022

Russillo shares some NBA observations on the Grizzlies’ win over the Cavaliers, Kyrie Irving’s return, the uptick in fouls, and more (0:40). Then Ryen talks with The Ringer’s Chris Vernon about Ja Morant and the fourth-place Grizzlies (14:25), before talking with Super Bowl champion Willie Colon about Ben Roethlisberger’s looming retirement, Willie’s six years with the Steelers, what makes head coach Mike Tomlin special, and being teammates with Antonio Brown (32:08). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:06:25). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Chris Vernon and Willie Colon Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's podcast little nba open on the memphis grizzlies and how much i love watching them some stuff with the nets and kairi returning and also free throws um but chris vernon who covers the grizzlies as part of the ringer gonna talk a talk a little bit more on Memphis and their win against Cleveland. Just big picture where they're at. And we're going to talk some football with Willie Colon, who was a teammate of Ben Roethlisberger's for a bunch of years on Ben's retirement, on Mike Tomlin, and also a couple of years with AB and where we're at now. And of course, life advice. Enjoy.

Before we get to our guests on today's show, I just want to talk a little NBA because Mondays are always a little, you know, look, we're still pretty football heavy. We're going to be through the playoffs as well. National Championship for next Monday. But, you know, a lot of the opens are going to start veering towards the NBA stuff more and more as we get past all the football. But getting caught up on everything from the weekend and then last night, Memphis beating Cleveland was a fun game. Very close game, back and forth type of stuff. You could argue both teams are kind of missing somebody important

in their guard rotation. I think a Coro being available for Cleveland would have been a huge deal considering they tried to figure out how to stop Ja and Ja is pretty much unstoppable. And that's kind of where the Memphis story starts, at least for this season. Memphis is the fourth seed in the West,

and it's probably where they would land. I think that's their ceiling. I'm not going to say that they're definitely going to be the fourth seed, but that's how they play. I've loved watching them play throughout the entire season. Every time I kind of land on them, I'm like, man, these guys are just connected. I've mentioned it before. They seem selfless.

Just very rare, very rare. There's usually some bullshit going on with teams and somebody feeling like, even if you feel slighted, can you get past it? So I'm not sure that all 15 guys in the Grizzlies love their role, but whatever it is combined right now, it's all working out. And if we look at some of the seating still too, with the Lakers, who I just told myself last night, I'm not watching you tonight. I'm not doing it again. They're starting to turn things around a little here, but their last eight games against winning teams are 1-7,

but they are now 20-19. They're the 7th seed. They've got the same record, basically, as the 5th seed in front of them and the 6th seed, Dallas and Denver. It's just percentage point stuff. So, you know, one win this way, we'd be like, wait, the Lakers are a 5th seed with all of this turmoil, but that's based on what our expectations were for the Lakers.

And this is what's crazy about it, as bad as it's been. If AD had just been decent and not the worst jump shooter in the NBA based on volume, they'd probably, what, swing that five games, maybe 25 and 14. I don't even think that's that crazy, despite how ridiculous the whole Lakers part of it has been and how disappointing it's been. All right, moving on past the Lakers. So Memphis defensively, we brought this up. I said, I don't even know if it means anything, but it was something.

Memphis defensively from the start of the season towards the end of November. So 11-26 was the last game that Jha played in before he got hurt. Memphis was the worst defensive team in the NBA by a pretty decent number. It was a terrible number, almost 116 points allowed per 100 possessions. Ja is out from 1127 to 1219. They're the number one defense in the league, all right? 98.1.

That's a massive, massive swing. And since he's returned, that's 1222 today, they're the 10th best defense. So I want to ask Chris Vernon about some of that stuff a little bit later because I still thought, like, wait, is that real? Is it that much of a swing off of that one guy? And we're not talking about Jaws, this great lockdown perimeter defender. And now people are warming up to the idea that Jaws is like a real guy.

I'm not sure where I am. Actually, I think I am sure where I am on the MVP thing. He's not the MVP. But it is always weird when it's like, now you've got to mention him. What? Mention that he's going to lose it? Sure, fine. Yeah, Ja's been awesome. He's going to lose the MVP. And then Desmond Bain, like, we lose

our shit with this stuff because then it's like, alright, he's the best point guard in the NBA. We're like, yeah, that's not true either. But that's cool. That's cool because it has been a significant jump. And I'd say the jump is even more significant than I realized. True shooting percentage numbers up, rebounding rate up, PER. He's at 25.6.

That would be the fourth best PER in the NBA. That's a jump up from like 16, 17 of last year. You don't like PER? Okay, that's fine. He is now at 40% from three, which was part of the game. You're like, is he ever really going to develop that?

33% to 40% through the first three years of his career. He is somebody who you are defenseless against him when you were trying to defend him. He's almost like a guy

who's playing hockey who can go in every direction on his skates. Like, you know what i mean like a joystick here he can be at a 45 degree angle to some point there without you even realizing it guys stop when they're around him you know he's he's in the paint and then they don't know what to do he had a play where he got past the perimeter defender um i think they were already up one score let's put them up two scores or maybe it was i, I don't know, it might have been 108-106 or something like that.

And Evan Mobley's coming over to help, who has about five moments every game. We were like, wait a minute. Why is Bill Russell playing right now? I'm serious. This Evan Mobley shit defensively is nuts. And Mobley came over to help, and jaw light goes up, and he's already back on his way down.

He finds some weird angle to release the basketball. We're like, wait, it's off of his ankle, and he's just throwing this underhanded thing up through forearms. Like, how the hell did that work? And then Goodwin, who I don't think made a great pass, Darius Garland, and Garland, who I love, and sorry, Cleveland, this is going to be about you right now, but I enjoy your team as well. Garland got a little trigger happy,

but I think that's the problem, not having another perimeter scorer to help balance him a little bit. Not saying Sexton is the answer, but you get the point. Goodwin, who's playing basketball, you may have heard of him throughout this stretch of a lot of guys who are like, who the fuck's that guy? Also known as the Thunder at times. Although I think everybody kind of likes the OKC Thunder right now,

even though they're not good. It's just kind of like, oh, I kind of like that guy. Bad pass, jaw, though, makes the play. Then lay up. Make sure the guy off-arm gets him away from him. They go up four. And that's your ballgame. So I like Memphis a lot. I don't think their ceiling is beyond what it is right now.

I don't know how they would get in front of Utah or Golden State or Phoenix or beat one of those teams in the playoffs. But they are doing this without Dylan Brooks, who provides at least a physical presence, even if he fouls the shit out of everybody at the time, a physical presence, the way he sells out to defend and is another scoring option when it's going to get a little tougher for Ja in moments.

All of this is really impressive. So great grades across the board for the Memphis Grizzlies. The other big story for tonight, Kyrie Irving getting his way and coming back. Now, should I frame it as him getting his way? That makes it sound like it's a little bit more negative. I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't have said it that way,

but I guess I'm not going to take it out because it is kind of true. Here's the deal, just to remind everybody. By not being vaccinated, he was not available for home games. He was available for road games. He would have played in road games if he had been allowed by the franchise to play in road games. They were like, you know what? We're not doing this part time deal. This is bullshit. We're not doing that. So Kyrie, actually, because the team said you can't play in the road games, but it was their call, he still gets paid for those.

So Kyrie's thirty three million full salary. So he's making, based on the numbers, I think a little over $17 million. And yes, I realize that $17 million is half of $34 million, but I was looking at it this morning. I think that's the way it works out is that he'd be eligible to make like $17.5 million this year, even though his stance has put him in a situation where the team didn't want him to play in any of these games. Now what's changed? I think the latest variant changed where this is a free-for-all, and the team goes, okay, so are we actually going to be more comfortable bringing up a guy that may not even be in a G League roster to play for us for a week or two as we get through an unprecedented run here again,

but then we're also going to have our all-star stay at home who we're paying? So, all right, just like Kyrie playing road games, and we'll kind of do it this way too and figure it all out. And I'm actually okay with all of it. I just am. And I can understand why the Nets would do it. I'm sure plenty of people think the Nets should just keep him ineligible

the entire time. And then I think there's a lot of people that are like, hey, this is awesome. Good for Kyrie. He gets to come back because I love watching him play basketball. And I'm sure a lot of Nets fans fall into that last category

because it gives you the best chance to win. What do we do with the Nets? Bad stretch lately. Two and four of their last six. Three postponed games. So it's been kind of weird. They're only two games behind the Bulls. So, you know, Brooklyn is in the mix for this

number one seed. But don't sleep on Milwaukee. Since the bad start, they've been housing teams. They're still missing a couple people. So Milwaukee's kind of figured it out since basically 500 lackluster, I don't know if it was what, 12, 15 games into the season, you're like, what's going on with them?

Well, I don't know. I wouldn't worry about them now as long as they have those three guys back and it's still without Lopez. But as bad as the Nets thing can feel at times, like that's the point, is Durant's, I think one of the three guys

with Jokic and Curry for MVP, they're sixth on defense this year, which is crazy because that was one of the big knocks to the Nets last year. You're like, defensively, where are they going to be? They were 22nd. And then they had these closing fourth quarters where it was even more ridiculous. And then once the playoffs rolled around,

we thought maybe they were going to have everybody. I still think the Nets, a healthy Nets, rolls through everybody last year. Nothing has happened that would have changed my mind. And we haven't had Kyrie to this part. We haven't had Joe Harris. Patty Mills and LaMarcus have been terrific for them. So a full Nets squad is something I'm still really scared of,

except the hardened part of this is a problem. Now, you can look at some of the raw numbers, and some guys do this that are fucking hacks, and they'll say, oh, well, look at the numbers. You're still this and this. You're like, then you don't watch games you don't know what you're watching because it's getting gross and he was he was Harden was a gross basketball player in that Memphis game I mean this just happened the other night and the nets were down huge Nash brings in the backups it's like a 17-2 run They're trying to get it to single digits. It's like five minutes left.

And Nash is left with a choice of bringing all the guys back. And he decided not to. And I thought that was very telling that he's just kind of sick of all this shit. You think Nash has had fun with this? I don't think so. So now he has a bigger challenge trying to navigate the rest of this. And it's very clear that Harden, after

this hamstring injury, which is the longest lingering hamstring injury in the history of team sports, he just doesn't care to get in shape. His effort is atrocious. And if you look at some of the Harden numbers, yeah, you can go over some of the basic stuff and go, oh, no, he's still 23, 8, and 10. Like, what's wrong with you, Russillo?

His shooting is awful by his standards. His PER is the lowest it's ever been as a starter. You got to go a decade here for that. And overall from the floor, he's 42%. He's 33 and a half from three, which is the lowest that he shot from three in his entire career. So yeah, look, man, you're going to get buckets. It's the rule of two. Two guys on any team are going to put up numbers. And Harden, if you have the ball as much as he has it, you're still going to put up numbers. He still has moments where he's unguardable. His passing is great.

Some of the shot-making capabilities are terrific. But the effort part of it is so – it's just not there. And I think it's part of why, especially if you look at some of the clips in that Memphis game from this week, why Nash was like, you know what? I know we're kind of coming back here with the bench guys. I'm going to just keep them in here. As far as the free throw thing was concerned, and I'm going to transition this into Trey real quick.

Trey had 56 against Portland when they lost. Atlanta's just bad. They're 4-8 in December and January, carrying over from a point that I'm going at here defensively. The three worst defensive teams in the NBA are Portland, Houston, and Atlanta the last three weeks. Portland's number is so bad. It's 130 per 100 possessions. I was kind of going the last three weeks to get this

sorted out because even though Atlanta doesn't have DeAndre Hunter with the wrist thing, the Miss Collins for a couple games. I still can't believe that they're this bad. One of my things, I was completely off the mark in the carryover from Atlanta because I go, all right, Trey's a fighter, not scared. I believe those things still. What he did in that Philly series where he was the most confident of anybody that was out there, that meant a lot to me. That was something that kind of changed the talk of like, all right, Trey's a dude.

And this Atlanta team is incredibly deep. And now a year later, look at all this stuff. They kind of fixed some things defensively. They're defensively, they're a mess again. I know they're missing a couple people from the rotation, but they shouldn't be this bad. And Trey has 56 and they lost to Portland because Anthony Simons lit them up.

I mean, that game, if you watched it, and for whatever reason I watched the whole thing, it was an awful basketball game. Like, nobody cared. Nobody did anything. We were getting, like, bubble effort levels on defense. So, Trey, you know, he's conned at, like, 24 shots a game now in December through January. So, we're creeping back to, like, a couple years ago

when he took a million shots and they lost games. His free throw numbers over the last few months, 4.3, 6.3, 8.1 free throw attempts per game. Each of the last month, he had 15 free throw attempts against Portland. And as I mentioned with Harden, Harden's free throw attempts, first month, 5.3, then 7.8, and then 10.8. And now in 2022, Harden's averaging 11.5 free throw attempts per game.

We tried, folks. We tried to get the message out. We put a lot of hours in. We're pointing out clips, pointing out all the bullshit. The league tried for a few weeks. They tried. But it looks like...

Looks like that was just a dream it was just a dream for a few of us that wanted to see some of this stuff stop getting called that is getting called again I don't want to leave you on a bummed out note but that's kind of where I'm at with it so those are some NBA observations

Chris Vernon, Verno, part of the ringer Those are some NBA observations. Chris Vernon, Verno, part of the ringer. Great Memphis Grizzlies coverage over the years. The mismatch with Kevin. We're fans, and I'm a huge fan of your team now, man. I don't know which part of the text thread or it was off to the side, but it dawned on me a few weeks ago. I go, I love watching Memphis play.

They are connected. They are selfless. Everybody's very kind of accepting of where the role is. And now that Ja is back, and this is also without Dylan Brooks that provides you another scoring option and a matchup stuff,

and he can foul the shit out of people and defend and all that kind of stuff. But they get that win last night against Cleveland. I saw your tweet this morning. That was a spirited game. It was a lot of fun. And Ja's taking a leap so let

me just start with just handing the baton to you of what it is like for you to have covered this team for so many years and now see this version of a young team sitting there as a four seat in the west yeah i think this is so far surpassed everybody's expectation of what they were going to be now this is the first time in a long time. The Grizzlies were typically chronically underrated by the media coming into the season. But this was the first time in a long time, given what they had done against Utah last year in the playoffs and people started to really like them

and Morant had some spectacular games in the playoffs, that we thought they were properly seated in terms of where everybody thought they were going to be, which is you're probably not one of the top six teams, but you're probably somewhere, hopefully seven or eight. You could fight for that and not have to play yourself into the playoffs again, but that you're seven, eight, 9, 10, you're in that mix with everybody else. Those are your peers. And so now, unbelievably, they were underrated again. I don't get how this happens, but it happened for so many years during the playoff run. And now this year once we thought that you know it was totally reasonable where everybody thought they would be and that was the trajectory of where they are in the building

process uh now they have just they have outperformed every expectation there's no question as i said in the open here this leap by jaw is is serious like we knew he was good um i think there was still some rumblings though too if you asked around and i don't know what kind of information you would get on it because i think people might be a little worried to criticize jaw with you is that there were some circles i think even the beginning of last year it's like you know is he a little overrated though is he this big stat guy who kind of just isos a million times doesn't play defense and you know if you have the ball enough you're going to put up numbers in this league but the shooting numbers as i mentioned again in the open,

this is a more significant statistical jump than I think people realize. And I know I mentioned the defensive stats where they were the worst team in the league when he went out, then they were the best team. And now they're like 10th since he's been back. And again, that's without Brooks. So, you know, I thought that those were extreme numbers.

I don't know that they were all that telling. I'm not telling you Jaws, Gary Payton either, but now that they're back and they're winning these games, I just feel like nationally, it's just started to pick up this week. People realizing, do you understand where his numbers are at? Because this is beyond anything he's ever done. Yeah. Two things. First of all, on the defensive numbers, I think that there was a lot of things that came into play with his time out and then them being so good during his time out. They had the worst defensive rating in the entire NBA when he went out, as you mentioned. They had also had the teams had hit a higher percentage of three-pointers against them than anybody in the league.

Teams shot over 40% from three. So the fact that they were kind of hovering around 500 at that point, given that teams were shooting 40% from three, was actually cause for some amount of hope. And then you have Dylan Brooks coming back, and he and Jaron Jackson as a tandem coming back, that was going to help defensively. And that kind of happened right when Jai was out. And the other thing was Zaire Williams got hurt and he was getting real rotation minutes. And the cost of playing rookies is sometimes

taking a big step back. I don't want to lay it all on being the worst defensive team, but I just think there were a lot of components to why they have gone from 30th in the NBA in defense to first in defense in the month of December. Now, his leap, I think we've seen this before. And my buddy Chris Harrington, who's an outstanding NBA writer for the Daily Memphian, chronicled this going into last season. And probably people looked at it and either rolled their eyes or just didn't want to hear it. But he was writing about the expectation for John Moran in his second year. And he likened it to many guys in the past. We were so prisoners of the moment with these crazy leaps that somebody like Luca took

or somebody like Trae Young took leading their teams in year number two that we lost sight of what is generally true. And this was true of Derrick Rose. This was true of Russell Westbrook. This was true of Chris Paul. This was true of John Wall. Go back and look at all of those guys. And it was year three. Damian Lillard and Steph Curry, it was year four for those guys. And they were a little bit older than the guys that I had just mentioned. Kyrie Irving, it was like year six that he made his biggest leap. So I think one of the things that happens is if you are an amazing point guard right from the jump, and all those guys were, right? Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Wall, you name it. A lot of them won Rookie of the Year. The next year, you now are at the top of the chalkboard,

as I say. You've been in a million visiting locker rooms. When you walk into a visiting locker room before the game, there's the thing they want to stop. And once you, you only get to take the league by storm once. then that next year now all of a sudden they're guarding you differently now all of a sudden when the Grizzlies came out last season DeAndre Hunter is the guy that's guarding John Moran not Trey Young they're hiding Trey Young on whoever the shooting guard is at the moment and that happened over and over again Kelly Oubre is guarding John Moran when you play the Warriors like like over and over again. And they're blitzing you and they're standing 10 feet away from you when it's time to shoot. And so now the guys that are

worth their salt are the guys that are truly going to become superstars. They go back into the lab in the offseason. They put in the work. They say, all right, here's what I'm going to become superstars they go back into the lab in the offseason they put in the work they say all right here's what i'm going to do when they defend me this way here's what i'm going to do what i defended this way and i'm going to make it a point that they're not going to be able to stand 10 feet away from me and just say shoot it bro and he did all of those things and now it is added up to him being you know on most nights totally unstoppable yeah the blitzing thing is is interesting because we're seeing more of it and even more of a sellout i mean look blitzing has been around forever high pick and roll make your decision on the blitz and it's always usually you know let's but then there was like a blitz and recover thing and i always felt like you, eventually if the team was decent,

they'd expose the hell out of you. Now it's just the blitz where they're staying with you, and then it's kind of up to you. And I think what Ja does, one, is he turns the corner probably as well as anybody, even though I would never – well, I don't know. I shouldn't say it this way. Like, you know, peak Russ end-to-end is insane. John Wall, peak John Wall end-to-end was actually like –

A lot of those guys I mentioned, Rose, too. I mean, there's a lot of those athletes that Ja was compared to, right? Yeah. These super athletes at point guard. And I find it interesting that so many of them, it was year three that they kind of took their big leap. Well, he's taken that because when I watch him him too, I just feel like you're so helpless because he'll reset against the blitz. You know, he'll reset against it.

Be like, all right, okay, cool. But I'm not giving up my dribble the way you want me to right now. And then the second you think you're kind of lost in your defensive decision, then I'm going to kill you. I mean, he did it on the layup where he scored, where he got the perimeter guy.

The perimeter kind of kind of caught back up to him because he's this there's also this other thing like i used to love with peak steve nash where nash would dribble into the paint and everybody would freak out because they didn't know what to do and they'd be likely to run away from him to close out for those prime phoenix teams and with jaw you just see these really like even good defensive players just stopping. Like, they don't want to move first. They don't want to reach.

They don't want to go up. They want to, like, wait. And he has everybody at their mercy right now, no matter where he's attacking from. And, I mean, that's just a scary place to be as a player. Well, because now, if he can make those shots, and he has. He shot the three-pointer really well. If he can, now if you give him space, he's either going to shoot it or he's going to use that space as a runway. And now you can't. You can't go backwards faster than he can go forwards, right?

And the other thing is they've done a lot to help him. You sent me a clip last night of a Steven Adams play, and I think it's indicative of a lot of things that have happened this year, which is, you know, they were criticized for taking Adams when they moved off of Valanchunas, but one of the things that has helped is, as a screener and also, they use him sometimes almost in that Draymond role, which is what, you know, like last year,

it's what Wiseman can't do, and that's what was hard about playing Wiseman because there's only so few guys that when you've got this dynamic guard like they have Curry in Golden State, that if you have somebody that once you bring that double team that you can throw it off to and can make a play from the elbow, now you become even more devastating. And Adams has really helped that in a massive, massive way. People die on his screens.

And he is just a much better passer than I ever thought he was. You know, he's a really good passer. The clip I sent, for those who have been wondering, is just actually the part of Adams that drives me crazy crazy even though i would want him on my team is that he can be at the rim and then he threw it to the corner for three now you could argue you could argue well you know he's going at mobley i'm like yeah but if my guy's seven one then i want but i always like it's kind of and i know you hate this but i think westbrook fucked up adams where adams would get the ball and it was was like, no, you're supposed to,

you're not supposed to take a layup, dude. You're supposed to throw it back out to me. 35. He did also make him millions of dollars. Come on. But okay. There's two other things then. Cause the Jackson part of this,

the best version of Jaron Jackson is scary too, because he was doing it again last night where he puts the ball on the floor and you're like, oh, wait, this is why this guy was just kind of given the extension out of nowhere. And, you know, people can knock. All right. Where are you at defensive? Well, defensively, he he's just such a versatile option. You know, you could do five out with him if you want to go big, but it's kind of small, right? Defensively, I actually think

he does impact the game. And then the way he can just, he can be like, I actually don't need a guard to get me the ball. Like, I'll create and get there on my own, even if the rebounding isn't necessarily what you want.

But again, you live with him, essentially, as a coverage guy for this team. Where is he now kind of getting through what's been a bumpy start to a career that's shown a lot of flashes? Yeah, I think that people have lost sight of, A, how good he was his rookie year. Then he was outstanding in the bubble before he tore up his knee. And most importantly, that people lose sight of,

is he is younger than John Morant. Like, give him some time. You know what I mean? Like, he is every year you see more and more of what he can do. And I do think that, you know, we take whoever is the guy like Mobley. We watched him last night. This is just an incredibly special talent. There's no way around it. And he's

immediately awesome, right? And it's hard to be immediately awesome. Like, that's special. A lot of these guys, it takes them a couple of years. And I'm not saying that he's going to end up being the best player in the world

like Giannis but if you would have taken you know Jared Jackson was a reclassified kid who as I mentioned is now still younger than Morant so wherever he is in his trajectory right now is not a bad place at all when you consider his age to me you know I think we want things to happen rather quickly. I think that every once in a while you see these glimpses of what can be an intensely special player in the NBA. And he has struggled offensively. There's no way around that.

But I am a believer in that kid. And as you mentioned, he is a devastating defender. But I am a believer in that kid. And as you mentioned, he is a devastating defender. He really covers just so much area and blocks so many shots. And there's no stat that can account for guys not driving because he's standing there with a 20-foot wingspan. Yeah, I think he just offers you, hey, do you want to go big and keep Adams? But you can have Jackson. You can have Jackson switch and survive against a lot of different options.

He also has to be honored past the three-point line. Oh, yeah. And he's seven foot tall. You know what I mean? Right. I could spend probably 30 minutes on desmond bain and what he's meant to this team but you already understand it uh and look even ty's jones has played you know decent minutes and then zire hit a couple threes last night there's depth

of this team it is all still kind of young a four seeds probably their peak i would imagine with utah phoenix gold state ahead of them how how How does this... You're with it all the time. The coaching is terrific, too, on top of everything else. What's the part of this that concerns you, then? I think that just like everything, with this season, they have been able to lose guys for an amount of time. But you also don't want to dwell in that.

You know what I mean? You don't want that to be your injury. You know what I mean? Like, that's what worries me, you know, and injury to major pieces. Yes, they were able to withstand John Morant being out. But Jaron Jackson has, you know, we're knocking on wood that this can be the year that he plays 70 games in a season. He has not made it through a season so far in the first three years.

And you can look at the numbers, he is I mean critical to what they do he's critical both ends the offense the defense both are much much better when Jaron Jackson is on the court and with this current version of the team there is no replacing him. They have been able to do it without him, but they don't have another stretch the floor big. And so that's what makes him even more essential to what they do. You know, they have guys that are good. Xavier Tillman can play. Brandon Clark can play.

But they don't have anybody that does what he does and the gravity that he provides for that offense and his health is essential towards what they do and them being able to achieve whatever it is they're going to end up achieving but I would say Jackson the fact that he hasn't made it through a season yet. And, you know, it looks like he has been totally and completely healthy, but that's always,

I mean, for me, that would be the concern. And I think it's not just the fact that, you know, he has had injury struggles, but more so what, how it would impact the roster. They've lost everybody.

They've lost the Anthony Melton. They've lost John Morant. They've lost Kyle Anderson. They've lost, you they've lost you know Dylan Brooks yeah you name it they haven't lost him they haven't lost him and I'm telling you even in the games when they get in foul when he gets in early foul trouble or he doesn't have it that night they're a different team they can't lose him not with the roster they have right now you know they would have to go and find another stretch big chris vernon he and kevin o'connor on the mismatch there's way more on the grizzlies being real some demar stuff chicago bulls

uh on the most recent podcast i think came out yesterday so you guys what two days a week and anything else to promote there, Verno? No, I don't know. I mean, I've got a local show, the Chris Vernon Show, which is like unbelievable. People know that. We don't even need to promote that one. I've been doing that for 20 years, Ryan.

He may look younger than Ja, but the birth certificate for Verno is always a little surprising. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Thanks, Ryan. Willie Colon played for the Steelers for six years, played with Ben Roethlisberger. We're going to talk some football with him.

This is a guy that I got to spend some time with. He's been on the pod before. So let's just start with what's up, man? It's good to see you again. Man, anytime I see your face, I know it's going to be a good time. I was excited when I got the text. I was like, hey, Ryan's hollering. He's looking for you.

I was like, all right. Let's talk. Let's talk. Let's do it. That's good. I like that. I'm such a fan of you and getting to know you. So let's tell some stories here.

So watching Ben, I'll admit I made a joke to a couple of my buddies. I said, I wonder if Roethlisberger actually may be the worst source of his own retirement because I'm kind of looking forward to him disputing it in the offseason and giving it one more ride. Do you think there's any chance that Ben changes his mind? Because it did get pretty emotional, and you have to give it to what this guy has done for the franchise. Man, it's weird because while I was watching it, I texted him,

and I was like, Hey man, I'm a little lost words. You know what I mean? I was like, I'm a little lost words because I love you and you, you mean a lot to me. And if this is it,

you know, thank you for everything you've done for me and my career personally. Um, from the neck up, I think he should still go. I think he still has the arm strength and arm talent. I hate using the word arm talent, by the way, like the way, which was never

a thing back in the day. Now it's like a legit thing. So excuse me for saying that. But I think he still, obviously his legs have gone away. He can't scramble. He doesn't have that kind of sandlot S type thing about him. But I think he should still play. I'm not

I don't think I'm ready to retire, but watching them coming out the tunnel emotional crying watching you know watching them talk to lisa salters and cry and him kind of you know giving the fair the final wave uh in heinz field on monday it feels like this is it this is it and you know one of the hardest things i had to deal with when i walked off the field was actually convincing myself as bad as my knees were in a bad as a shape. I was that this was it. Like even, even laying in bed two months after I said, all right, I'm done. I got to figure out what the hell Willie Colon's going to do with himself.

There was a big part of me is like, you still got it champ. You know what I mean? Like you said, keep swinging, bang the body to hell will fall. I still had that mentality and I was still working out like that. I was still like, I was like, man, I just need a time for my body to heal up. And then, you know, maybe July come around. I smell the fresh grass, the sun's on my cheeks and I'll start feeling in my Rocky mode. Cause every ball player has that timer in them.

Maybe I'll give this another shot. But my wife was like, sit your ass down. Like it's time. Listen, big fellow, let's, let's fellow, let's shut it down. Let's work on plan B. So who knows? I think Ben, once the season is over, I think he just needs time to digest everything. But I wouldn't be surprised if he said, you know what? I'm just not there.

I'll tell you, any football player I've ever known, right after you decide to leave, all you guys seem to work out as if you're getting ready for week one. It's crazy. And I do think that's specific to football players because basketball guys can be over it. I've seen hockey guys throw their equipment away. I'm serious. I never want to do this again. And other guys want to skate the rest of their lives. So everybody's got, but but football players it's so

taxing it sucks it sucks to practice you know playing's one thing but there's nothing fun about your practices really and it's just so funny where you're at mentally in february where every guy's like i'm fuck this yeah and yet you all kind of stay in the same strength routine you know some of the offensive linemen that know they're done will cut a ton of weight immediately. But I do think that the football guys always find a way to kind of trick themselves into, I'm not done, even though you're convinced of it

right after the season. It's a body clock thing. Like, Ryan, I can't tell you, even now, even now, around April, right, usually around the draft, after the draft, because we're so accustomed to going to OTAs. That's when you're like, all right, I start getting my mind together, start getting my body together, start working. There's a kind of a checklist you go through right after the draft and some before the draft. But even last year, my wife saw I was playing around and I was doing something and she was like, your old ass ain't got it. And somehow a light went off in my head. And she was like, well,

I haven't seen you run since you've been on the field. I just started getting it. Right. And that little crumb of ego that still festers in my mind still gives me that like, listen, if I need to cut 40, hit the foot ladder, throw some weight around, lock horns with somebody, we'll see what happens. But I'm washed up. I'm washed the hell up. But it's still in me. And I think it's an innate feeling. And I think this is what I, not that Tom Brady needs any more love or he needs any more handjobs than he already receives. But listen to him talk about the man in, the man in arena thing he does. And he talks about the intimacy about being a ballplayer and what you got to go through

in the journey you experience. Man, I love it because it's true. There's something about every day knowing you don't know. Like there was times I didn't know I was going to pull out of bed just physically, just like, man, I'm going to get through a nine or seven on a Wednesday. I can barely tie my shoes right now. My knees are shot. My back's killing me. And then

getting through that week, and then Sunday, you have to turn it on because I got Haloti Nata staring at me. I got Sue staring at me. I got some of the baddest guys to walk the NFL looking to rip my head off. And by the way, I built a reputation of being a

badass myself. So now I can't blink, right? What am I going to do? Once your foot's in the middle of the ring, you got to bang it out. And so you do that for so many years and you're accustomed to being that guy that at some point, I remember one point, and I think every guy kind of goes through this and it has nothing to do about your plan B, you really don't recognize the guy in the mirror after so many years. Because you're so accustomed to seeing this, you know, you're waking up at five in the morning, it's dark, you don't want to wake the wife up,

the kids are sleeping. So you're used to just seeing your glowing eyes, brush your teeth, you throw some mouthwash, you're off to work. Now you have time to actually turn on the lights, take a shit and actually see yourself, right? You're like, man, who's this guy? And so it takes a lot of reflection.

It takes a lot of, um, it takes a lot of saying, all right, you know, am I done or am I not? And you, and that's a seesaw battle that to this day I've been off the field seven or eight years and I still struggle with it. So you said something with Ben though, that I obviously have to, you know, I don't know. It's the debate. I guess I would just dispute. You said something with Ben, though, that I obviously have to, you know, I don't know, it's the debate. I guess I would just dispute. You said the arm talent, even though you're so annoyed with the term arm talent.

I don't see it, Willie. I think it's actually like a chore for him to get the ball down the field now. And we've seen this now with two straight years for this offense. So I was a little surprised to hear you say that. Well, I'm speaking more to his ability to get the ball out fast. I think he still has the ability to get the ball down the field to play pool. Excuse me. And I still think he has the ability to make the necessary throws to win games.

Now, with all that, I mean, I just see it. Like, I don't, you know, I don't. Is he as polished or at one point is an Aaron Rodgers? No. Sometimes the balls get away from him that you're like, man, what the hell was that? Sure. But I think that sometimes Ben just kind of like, you know, that just Ben having botched plays

at times. But I don't, I think some people, like I watched Colin Hurd say yesterday, he was like, listen, he left a lot on the table because he didn't work out in the offseason as hard. He wasn't as dedicated as in the offseason. You know, he took a lot of hits because he was a 6'6", 250 pound guy. But I also feel like I'm watching a guy who's just he's smarter than he's ever been I think he's wiser than he's ever been so he doesn't rely on his body and his legs as much

he feels like he can get he can get the job done with his arm and that's it you know I mean I could be wrong so yeah well what uh what was it like when you first met him because you had been there uh you got there in 06 so at that point, he became the guy. Because Brady had a little bit of this. Russell Wilson had it in the beginning where we used to kind of bring these guys along a little bit slower. It was also nice when a defense was in place like there was in New England in that early Seattle thing. But Ben was way more of a caretaker than towards the end of the career where it felt like the Steelers could never miss on any receivers. You are chucking it 40 plus times a game but what was it like in

the beginning you rolling in is it's probably a rookie no one even thought was going to make the team oh 100 when I got there to your point they had just won the Super Bowl so they had that was Jerome Bettis's last game against Seattle and Detroit and man when I got there listen I'm a kid from out of Hofstra, Long Island, New York. I was rough and tumble. All I had was, you know, I had literally just left leaving the nightclubs that I was bouncing, getting, you know, struggling to pay rent. Five hundred dollar rent, by the way. I was balancing three jobs, getting into scraps, you know, like on the feet, on the streets, fights with people and knife fights. And it was insane. And so my agent was like, listen, do you want to play in the NFL?

You got to stop balancing because, you know, you got to start taking it serious. But my mindset was like, listen, I got to survive. I got to eat. So once I kind of knuckled up and said, all right, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. And I chased it and I was blessed to get drafted. Once I got to the Pittsburgh Steelers, I still had an extreme insecurity about who I was as a ball player because how did I land?

What am I doing in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania? You know, basking in the glory of the Pittsburgh Steelers, they won the Super Bowl. I didn't. So when I got around the guys and I saw Heinz Ward and I saw Troy Paul Marley, Joey Porter's walking around with the open stomach, with a 12 pack that was built from Hercules. And I was seeing all these mythical guys who I had watched for so long.

It was a little it was it was unreal. But I still had the mindset like, hey, you got one opportunity. Either you sink or swim. And when I got around Ben, to your point, he was this larger than life guy. You know, he's a big man. He had the hair at the time, the wavy hair, the long Don Johnson look, if you will. And I think for me, we had a backup center that I had drafted where he was actually Aaron Rodgers center, Marvin Phillips. Marv was like barely six foot, kind of a bulldog of a center. And we were roommates. And I watched Marv, who I love. He was awesome.

And our first day on the field with the vets, there was quarterback exchange. And Russ Brim was our office line coach. Now, the great Russ Brim, everybody knows, was one of the original hogs, Pittsburgh legend. And when Russ talked, you just, you didn't even blink. If he told you to go, you know, jump out of the building, come back with Trout and make me dinner, you did it. And so Russ was like, hey, Willie,

Marv, go over there for under the center exchange with the quarterbacks. And he was like, actually, Willie, you go over there with the tackles. So I ended up going with the tackles. Anyway, Marv stayed, and I can remember Marv being nervous, man. Marv was taking snaps with Ben, and Marv was really nervous. And I don't know if Ben recognized how nervous Marv was to be taking snaps with Ben.

And so, you know, they're going through their, you know, they kind of warm up, and I think Marv actually fired a ball and it jammed one of Ben's fingers. And he was like, God damn it. And he was like, Russ, get him out of here. And I can remember looking at Marv, how petrified and how distraught he was. He was like, Dan, did I just break our starting quarterback, our Super Bowl finger? And I can remember feeling like, damn, I wish Ben didn't kind of blow up like that. And valid, Ben had it right.

He just jammed. He just got his finger jammed in his OTAs. The guy's like, I just finished the season. I don't need my finger broke, right? But I just felt like, man, I just feel like Marv was really embarrassed by that moment. And I was defensive about Marv and his situation along mine. We were roommates. And then I just felt like, man, I don't think this guy's a nice guy.

And then we would have kind of like these moments where we would go on air and then the first team would kind of, you know, it was kind of like a card. If you know what cards are, you know, like the first team kind of replicates what the defense is going to do in their practice. And Ben was flying around messing up my reads and I was really getting annoyed with him. And I was like, man, I like this guy. He just fronted on my man, and he's messing with me.

And I was just like, I don't know. And then I was already chippy, right? I was already chippy. I was already sensitive. I was already, like, not really secure of why I was there and who I was. And then it took training camp. And I remember watching him, and I watched why he was there and who I was. And then it took training camp. And I remember watching him and I watched why he was big Ben and I was watching why everybody loved him. And then I got to really have,

I really didn't talk to him earlier in my career until I, my, you know, my first start was the second, my, my first start was my first year, but it was against the Baltimore Ravens and the Cincinnati, Cincinnati Bengals at the end of the year. And I got to just chop it up with him. And I watched how this guy was magic, man. He just had the cape. And I just watched him do things that I've never seen anybody do from a leadership perspective to when the ball's in his hands,

how he just had this defiance that he wasn't going to lose. And then in the offseason, I got to sit and talk to him and have a beer with him. And I'm like, that's not the Ben. I don't want the locker room beer. I want this guy. The guy I'm having a beer with, I want this guy for the rest of my life because he was so human. He was so funny. He was

so real. And he was just a guy's guy. And that's who I am. And our relationship grew because I think he knew I was going to give him everything I had and I know he was giving us everything he had and we just grew together and I had I grew to love him like a brother and we got really close and we got and we became we we came I felt like he was family and I his he would always come and hang out with me and my family you know I will always go be around his family. We got to know each other on many different levels, man.

The guy who he was then compared to who he is now is night and day. I think sometimes I think we get, no matter how many times we love or have admiration for our stars, they're people at the end of the day. They go through things, and they're human. I just have so much respect for the dude right now. It's unbelievable. Did he get back to you? Yeah, he texted me.

He hit me. He's like, love you, bro. Thank you. It means a lot. So that was it. Which is cool. I didn't need a whole Disney paragraph of how much he loved me.

I didn't need it. I was like, I appreciate it. I think I've had some times where I was wrong about Tomlin. I remember he went through a weird stretch with good Steelers teams. They were losing home playoff games. And part of it is, look, if you run into Brady, a lot of guys have a bad end to that story.

And then I look at this season and the games I've watched at Pittsburgh, the fact they have another record like this that's even competitive going into the last week, I think says a lot about him. Now the number is 15 straight years without a losing record in this league is impossible to do.

You had him, what, did he come in after your rookie year? I'm assuming your second year. Why does the Tomlin thing work as well as it does? It's funny, man, because when I had BC, meaning Bill Cowher, you know, Bill, I had him for a year. Bill was kind of, he didn't seem real to me because I grew up a kid watching him on Sundays

with the chin and screaming and spitting. So when I saw him, it was always like, all right, that's the president. I'm just a foot soldier. We always you know, it wasn't that type of relationship. And I was a rookie for Christ's sake. You know, I back then it was be seen, but don't be heard. You know, I had a lot of fire and a chip and everything that came along with me. But I didn't really get to know him on any other level than that's just my ball coach and I'm just here to do my job. Mike Tomlin, on the other hand,

one thing I was always extremely impressed with, no matter what state the team was in or what we were going through in the season, he would come up to you after practice. Each guy would walk around the locker room and have something to say. There was a sense of engagement. There was a sense of that whatever you had to say, you didn't have to necessarily, because you know the old coach talk, well, my door is always open. You can always

knock on my door. I'm always here for you. No, no, no, no. If you have something to say to Mike Tomlin, he walked up to your locker room, stood in your face, and checked in. Like, hey, you good? This is what I need for you. This is what you need to do better. How's the wife and kids, blah, blah, blah. Each guy. And he did it repetitively through my years with him. And on top of that, he'd never, he never was afraid to cut onions, but on, but he also knew how to do it in a way where you knew he wasn't coming to demean you. He was really trying to tell you like, listen, we, this is, this is, we're in the business of winning football games. We are the Pittsburgh Steelers. So you always felt like you were fighting

for the better good. And I always felt like he had a plan. No matter what happened with the team and what direction we were going in, he had a plan. And for him, he had a... You talk about it, he inherited a team that just won a Super Bowl. That's a lot of egos. And he's looking

at guys who weren't too far from his age, you know? And he had to kind of walk a certain way. He had to talk a certain way. But he always stayed authentic through it all. And I just felt like, man, he just – there's so many – I don't think we talk about the intangibles when it comes to a head coach. We only kind of say it when we're talking about a ball player. He had a lot of intangibles that i wish more coaches inherited and um i'm not surprised by his success at all

i do want to ask you about antonio brown a little bit because i think you had been there a few years he comes in yeah his story you know as a receiver you know people don't i you're kind of like who is this guy again you know and then he turns into the best route runner in the league there for a few years. I mean, he's just stupid. People don't understand. We were accustomed watching Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson take on triple teams. This guy was doing it in his size and catching the ball and getting that.

He was a giant, man. He was. You're 100% right. Especially even the red zone stuff. Because that's something that I've definitely become. Like, I think there are yards out there for everybody now. You know, the 20-20. You look at some of these numbers, you'd be like, hey, this guy threw for 360, three touchdowns, one pick.

And it's like they lost. You know, like what happened? It's just the norm. And then you go, okay, here we go. We're dialing it up in the red zone. And that's where Rodgers, that's where Brady, that's where the special quarterbacks, Mahomes, I think Pete Russell-Wilson as well. I don't know the red zone numbers off the top of my head,

but they're still getting six out of it. And on the receiver side of it, guys like Brown, unless there's just so good in the slot and you overload the other side. But his stuff in the red zone or goal line at that size, always finding ways to get open and stuff. I mean, this is a guy who's really special. That's why he's gotten so many chances.

But I've seen it all play out the last few days. Like a lot of things that become, I guess, debatable topics in our country, it's like two very different camps where it feels like there's zero sympathy and then there feels like there's all the sympathy. I don't want to sit here and say I have zero sympathy. I guess I just kind of have a rule that if you continue to treat people like shit, and even if you're dealing with stuff, which I think we'd all agree that Antonio Brown's wired a little differently in a way that is concerning, it doesn't absolve you from treating people like shit for years and years and years. And unfortunately, there's different people that have the benefit of the doubt. Like there's some things that, uh, if I did, people would give me more or less the benefit

of the doubt in comparison to somebody else based on my own history. And so all of us are like that. And that's why I look at Brown and I don't even know what your relationship is with him, but I guess I'm, I shouldn't ever say I'm surprised at the reaction. I just don't think the reaction should be full admonishment but I also not down with full sympathy either I think I'm I think I'm on the same train with you you know for me AB hits a little different because I watched the kids show up with an even Steven haircut you know a bag full of all his anything he ever owned I knew he was a young father at the time.

And I remember playing with AB's kid in the locker room and having that relationship with his kid because on Saturdays and in Steeler building, the guys would bring their kids. Right. And so before what, before we kind of have, you know, kind of like a mock practice, a kind of run through, if you will, the kids will be a ramp. So I remember keeping, you know, sometimes money i had residual money i had from the strip club in my locker and i would give guys kids five dollars or give them like ten dollars but that was kind of the that was kind of the custom we had in pittsburgh and it was a family it was a legit

family and how we embraced it was if I saw your son or daughter at the time, that was my son or daughter. So I hugged them and I loved them. And they're like, hey, you want to go get ice cream? Let's go get you some cereal while dad's on elliptical. It was just that type of relationship we had. So if AB had, I watched a young kid who worked extremely hard. AB was a maniac when it came to working out. And he had this big smile. He was easy to talk to. He was fun. He was loving. And I can remember looking at him. I'm just looking at this guy with this kid. And I just wanted to embrace him because I knew he had big time talent. Even to the point, one time I had a picnic, man. And I used to have a big cane course. So I had my dog was like one hundred and fifty five pounds, a big, big, big, blue, burned cane course.

So and I was having a barbecue at the crib and I was like, hey, come to the house. You know, we're going to have food and we have drinks. Just come just be around my people, if you will. And he's like, yeah, sure. I'm down. And I remember I was in the back with my fraternity brothers and we were laughing and smoking cigars. And my sister knocked on the door and said, hey, one of your teammates is outside, but he won't come in. I was like, wow, what's up? Well, he's scared of the dog. I was like, well, put the dog up. And my brother's like, we don't put the dog up for nobody. So I was like, let me see who it is. I come around the corner, it's AB. And he's like, standing outside his car, he's like, Willie, I love you. I come around the corner. It's AB. And he's like, standing outside his car.

He's like, Willie, I love you. I'm not coming in. The dog's too big for me. Whatever. I'm scared, terrified of dogs. And I'm like, AB, come back. And so it was always a running joke for us. Like, you know, I only come hang out with Willie when you get rid of the dog. And so it was kind of this thing with us. And, and I just, he was just, he was just awesome to be around and fun to talk to. When i left the steelers and i saw him kind of turn into this guy and things started turning different and the the rumblings i heard from the locker room and people how he the things in the antics and it was like i was like man that's not the kid i knew that's not the kid i grew to love and now

ab now is he's i don't know what happened. And some may tell you, well, he was kind of that guy in college. I didn't know him in college. All I knew him from my Pittsburgh days and his early Pittsburgh days, I loved him. And to your point, to pivot a little bit, I think sometimes when we see a ballplayer go rogue, we throw the blanket on, oh, that's mental illness. And I have to say, I'm not empathetic or have sympathy for those who are dealing with any type of issues. But sometimes a guy has to grow the fuck up. Excuse my mouth. And some guys have to understand whatever you're going through,

like somebody, my coach used to tell me, you may not control how you feel, but you are in control of what you do and what you say and how you go about your business. And AB has been given so many opportunities because of the talent we just talked about, right? And at this point, I struggle with loving him from a distance because I know how many guys that I, when I was with the Jets and Steelers, who were banging on the door to try it again, just for one opportunity. Valant didn't have the level of talent AB had, but they would cut off their left hand just to be a football player in the NFL. And so I want the best for AB, man.

I want the AB that I grew to love to come back. I want the AB who, when I used to look at him, he had such an extreme passion for football and loved being around the locker room

and loved being around the game. I want that guy to come back. I don't know this guy. I don't know who, you know, I cover the Jets on SMY, do the pre and post. We were watching the game. I want that guy to come back. I don't know this guy. I don't know who... I cover the Jets on SMY. I do the pre and post. We were watching the game, bro. When they cut to him running across the end zone with no shirt,

my eyes didn't register who that was. I couldn't believe it because he was having a good game. It was in the third quarter. If it was a catcher's thing, they had a whole other quarter and they was trailing at that point. If it was a situation third quarter. You know, if it was a catcher's thing, they had a whole nother quarter and they was trailing at that point. So, and if it was a situation where he was hurt, you know, I've seen A.B. play through injuries.

Mike Evans was on the field dealing with a nagging hamstring and figuring it out. So I don't know what made him snap or I don't even know if snap is a dismissive word, but the A.B. that I see today, that's not the A.B AB who I grew to love. Some of the stuff is saying, oh, he was told he was cut

down there, but I'm like, wait, what? Look, if the message is coming from the AB side, and people can be just as dismissive of the team side of this, but here's kind of what I know. Arians never wanted to do this, and Brady did, and Brady's been

all about it because it gives tom the best chance in another ring just like it did last year and to this point it's actually kind of work until it doesn't and then they move on because teams deal with this shit way better than we realize that they deal with it they're just like all right see you later like we don't have to deal with this anymore um the reason you got to pass because the vaccination thing is because brady wanted him on the team so brady don't think, was necessarily sympathetic because he has this 20-year grasp and understanding of other teammates. It's because

the reason he's even on the roster and he wasn't going to trash a guy. And by the way, it doesn't do anyone as a big-time public figure to go out there and expose yourself to all sorts of criticism by appearing to be apathetic towards anybody dealing with any of

the mental illness stuff, which was thrown around nonstop. He may have all sorts of stuff that we don't understand and we'll learn more about later on, but it doesn't mean you just get to be an asshole all the time. And unfortunately, anybody that's had, there's other stuff, man, there's other stuff with AB, the way he treats people around the team, the way he treats people that cover the team, the stuff that I hear where it's like, yeah, you know what? I actually just, I'm not going to defend you even if I'm worried about where this is going. I agree. I mean, to even push that one more further, like I know people who worked on from a trainer to physical therapy to stuff that, you know, the stories you hear, I'm just like, man, that's, that's, that's not it. I don't care what you're going through, to your point.

Like, there's ways of going about things. And I think for me, one of the hardest things for me watching him from the outside was the clip of him and his baby mother shoving the kids in the back of the car. And him kind of, like, taunting her. the back of the car and him kind of like taunting her. And that burns in my mind because like I said, I grew to love the dude when he was a single father playing with his kids. Now I know he has two twin boys. They weren't around when I had him, when I was with him, but his oldest, I was around. I remember his daughter and I remember how much he loved him. So to see that picture and the way that all looked was disturbing. And it's tough, man, because I know deep down inside there's a damn good kid. And whatever demons he's fighting right now, all you can do is pray for him, honestly.

Yeah, I think we covered it. How are you doing, man? How are you doing now as you've gone? You were at Barstool, and you did the impossible at Barstool. As you came in as an outsider, you were immediately accepted by people at barstool which doesn't doesn't happen with the fan base that's very protective and now you're doing mad dog radio doing morning shows now on on morning men which is you know that morning shift man five days a week that's that's a different that's a different kind of commitment um i just i just

love working with you and i want to know how you're doing. I'm good, man. I'm a father of two. I got a one-year-old and I got a five-month-old. Damn. Yeah. So I'm a daddy working the early morning shift. And so that's never easy when you got to get up, change pampers, and check on the kids and make sure that they're actually in bed, they haven't called out and set your house on fire. on top of that it's it's been a blessing man i'm i'm fortunate to land uh with evan cohen and mike babchek those are my two co-hosts and uh we're talking ball talking ball and everything underneath the sun getting wacky and crazy which which is kind of my brand if i had one and um it's been good i really have no complaints right now for me right now is i've

lost i've lost over like 80 pounds. So I'm trying to get lean and fit. Yeah. What? Where do you at right now then? So let me tell you. This is real talk. Last April, around my birthday.

So my birthday is April 9th. So around my birthday, probably a week later, I'm in the bathroom. And I got my shirt off. Probably wearing some tight ass shorts that i just threw out you to pick them pick them you know you know them shorts you just happen to throw on that you know they're way too tight and you know like man i think my tank's actually hanging out at the bottom of these things right and so uh i said let me just got on the scale, and it said 436 pounds. Holy shit.

Ryan, I almost shit a brick. I got off the scale. I got off the scale, bro. Flipped it around, took the batteries out, put the batteries in, put it down, and I said, okay, that wasn't true. Got back on the scale. It said 436.6 said 436.6.

436.6. And I almost had hearts. I was like, and I'm a guy who always thought I looked sexy in anything, right? Like, no matter what I put on or what I squeezed this Buick in, I always felt like I was that guy. So my confidence, I never wavered. And I remember I looked at my wife and I said, how did you let me get this big? And she was like,

well, you've always been sexy to me. Like, you've always been fine to me. I was like, babe, the scale says 436 pounds. I'm obese. And you know what they say to offensive linemen. Once they retire, they either cart you out on a gurney or they cut you out the house.

And I said, boy, I'm in, I'm in trouble. So I said, okay, Willie, this is one of those coming to Jesus moments.

What are you going to do? And I just, I don't, and since then I've just been getting it. And I, I actually went to the doctor, bro. I went to the doctor,

uh, shout out to Damian Morris. He's been, he's my team doc. He's my, he was our team doctor. And, uh, Damien Martins. He's my team doctor. He was our team doctor. And he's my doctor now. I said, hey, let's check my labs. Let's see where I'm at. He said, okay. Did my labs. We looked underneath the hood. It wasn't good. My cholesterol, I mean, my nose were bad. I was in bad, bad shape. And so he said, listen, there's, there's two ways about this. He said, I could, I was, I was pre-diabetic, bro. And he said, listen, um, we, I'm gonna give you a shot.

I'm gonna give you three months to really grind your nuts and get this weight off and figure it out. Or we're going to start talking medication. I'm 30 years old. You know what I mean? Like I still have a youthful mind. I still want, I have two little ones I want to play with and run around with. I was like, okay, this is one of my coming-to-Jesus moments. I've just been hitting it. I'm currently 338 pounds. My goal is to get down to 290.

Honestly, I've been inspired by CeCe Sabathia. Me and CeCe Sabathia are good friends. I watched the transformation he made and how lean and cut and kind of in a warrior shape. And that's been

kind of my goal. And CeCe, the hefty lefty, he was a big fellow too, but he had to put his foot down and he had to get it right. And so that's what I'm doing. I've just been grinding

my workout every day. I try to eat right. I have my ups and downs. I go through my moods. But my weight has been falling off me slowly but surely. So right now, I went from 436 pounds. I'm at 338. And by April, I plan to be at 290. That's a story. I didn't even know that, man. I was bad. I was bad, Ryan, though. i was bad because i i'm an eater i'm a drinker um and when you have kids you don't sleep and then my sleep was all whacked out

covid didn't help because i was locked in the house you know we i was isolated so i'm walking by the fridge 50 damn times right um my wife's from jackson mississippi so you know she can burn some pots uh and so i'm just i bro i was just i was just snacking i was but you're but you're also a guy you're a festive guy you know you've got your heritage you know that you're like okay you know what's the plan where's the spread and let's do this because you know i know i know how you like to get down and that's why everybody likes you but damn dude i had no i didn't know you were that big i got real big bro like and what's crazy is so my wife uh we had to go out of town we had to go down we had to do something and i had to go to dxl right and uh i she was like you know it's time for some new jeans you've lost

some significant amount of weight i was like okay man i was like oh give me a four because my waist was like 54 52 um she's like we tried on a couple jeans jeans and i was like does that say 44 34 or i was like john to walter in the mirror i was shaking these hips i was moving i was grinding it felt good to kind of slide on some tight ass jeans and not feel like a stuffed sausage so So I'm in way better shape. I'm doing, I've actually, what's helped me a lot is the booze. You know, I was a bit of a booze bag. You cut the liquor out,

you'd be surprised how much starts working for you. And, you know, I'm still sporting a morning wood. The wife is still hot for me. So things are good. Things are good, bro. Hey, you are though, and as people know that watch you play and know on everything, too.

You're a tough dude. So you've taken this on head on. I mean, this is probably one of the toughest challenges you've ever had as opposed to blocking some of these guys in the edge. So, look, you know how much I care about you, and I'm even prouder now. So let me know if you can do anything. All right. Thanks, Willie.

You're the best, baby. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine.

And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice. Lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Shout out to you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice. Lifeadvicerr at gmail.com Shout out to Axe Body Spray for getting up in my DMs trying to get in contact with Kyle. We will try to make that happen. My bad.

No, they didn't care about you, Cerruti. They were just like, let us know. Let us know what Kyle needs. I don't think Kilo is still around. I think I would really only want it for the nostalgia factor. And I think it's like the new generation of Pokemon. Like, you just don't even know.

You can't even recognize them. You know, I knew the first hundred Pokemon. I didn't know anything after that. Were they doing that again? Doing what? Pokemon cards? Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure we're on like generation three or four by now well that could be an interesting that could be an interesting guest on a pod

different one but interesting nonetheless okay uh we'll do a couple of uh the career ones i don't think we've done these in a while i don't know maybe we have i don't know all right checking in 28 57 155 225 bench squat 450 that's a big fucking number there buddy 155 squat 450 240 power clean skinny frame um no matter the amount of mass i've tried to accumulate all right not about gaining mass though shocking lived my entire life in colorado except for a three-year stint in la which by coincidence uh i decided to move back to Denver just before COVID, so January 2020. I have over eight years of media experience and a BA in communications. In LA, I worked for a professional comedian. We'll leave the name out, but he is a real guy. He's very successful. I was a producer at a major sports broadcasting company. We'll leave that company out, but yes, a very real company. And in between, I've worked for a broadcasting company in Denver, essentially as a professional TV watcher. The job may sound nice, but in fact, it's soul crushing for a creative person along with several different post-production companies. Yeah, I totally get it. If you're creative and you want to start doing your own stuff, make a mark, your own little thing,

sitting around just watching other people do it the entire time can get real old, real fucking fast. I think a lot of the angst that we have in this business between people that are in it and the people that are outside of it, because I know what it was like to be outside of it and go, yeah, I think I could do that. Which is weird. Cause I still, when it came down to it, I didn't really want to be on the air. Once it kind of was like going down that lane, I was like, I don't really want to do that. Um, I had moments where I was like, fuck this guy. Like he's not that good. And that's why I think there's just so much animosity out there because what we do isn't

really that impressive. There's just a million people like, well, I could have just done that. If you watch, I don't know, a basketball game or someone sing, even though they're still idiots that are like, yeah, I could do that. Celine Dion, fucking how many years of Vegas? It's not that good.

Yeah, I'm probably fucking lip-syncing anyway, dude. You don't think I could do that? I do that shit for half. Maybe you would, buddy. Maybe you would. Okay. All right. So back to our email.

I've had moments of clarity when I was on the cusp of a career change, one being at the sports broadcasting company. My boss offered me a promotion that was essentially longer hours and no extra pay. And I decided the already horrible pay, long hours, and dealing with talent while having to sleep on a couch as he refused to hire me full time wasn't worth it. Another time I quit after getting my first paid gig doing stand-up, realizing that life wasn't for me either. So you actually did stand up and get paid for it and then quit. Being around successful and famous people is always a common theme when meeting the people who had made it. They were almost also broken down and jaded having to earn their spot that by the time a young punk like me met them, it was nearly impossible for these people to not

only be respectful, but simply 90% of them were assholes, genuinely bad people. So I left. I know I wasn't in the best mindset mood in LA as I was constantly pissed about working two jobs or sleeping on the couch. I used to see Ryan around Manhattan Beach while I was crashing the beach house and never approached him. But who knows? Maybe you were an exception to these people. Who knows? I don't know.

Could have been you. You could have said something and I'd be like, yeah, not not today, dude. And then you would have thought I was a jaded asshole. Who knows? Or maybe I was going to be super nice and engage in conversation, which I'm capable of both. So our guy is now back in Denver doing mindless, unfulfilling work. But with my resume and career path, there isn't a lot of money or room for advancement and creative path in the media unless I eat shit in a major city

for 10 or 15 years. Well, it doesn't have to be 10 or 15 years, by the way. But it's a long, you know, doesn't happen overnight. And best case scenario, I become either a jaded asshole with money or the rare nice guys that stuck it out and had some of the hottest burning passion for how much they hated their life working for these people. I'm not exaggerating. There are two types of people I met in different types of media industries. All and all of the most toxic work environments were the ones that involve talent and the least were filled with nerds who kept themselves. Oh, so two categories, talent, toxic assholes, and non-talent uh nerds that kept to themselves um so should i keep doing the work i hate to pay the bills applying and waiting around for the same

seven companies to call or cut bait spend all my free time learning a new skill and different career path that might actually offer jobs with livable wages and or opportunity sorry for the long-ass question he also has a film uh that's a short a comedy that's going to be premiering at a film festival um and he said as bad as the sports media industry is it's tenfold for the film industry wow this guy's having a blast um i will i would agree i mean at least the sports industry i could see the incremental design on whatever it was i was doing i would say on the writing side of things, you're just kind of like, oh my God, is this going to work out? And you're

like, no, no, it isn't. You're like, oh my God, is this going to work out? And you're like, no, no, it isn't. So it's a different type of discouragement that if you're easily discouraged, I would not try to get into that business. All right. So we got a guy that's kind of on the cusp of making a decision. I'm going to say some things. You're probably not going to like them. When you said that you got to offer a promotion that was for no more extra pay and it was just dealing with stuff. Why do you even want to do any of this, man? It seems like you fucking hate it. It seems like you don't like anyone that you meet. So when I read this email, I go, why do you want to do this? So the quickest way I could respond to this would be like, yeah, I would do something else. You need to find a way to fulfill that creative passion

that you clearly have. I mean, if you got on stage and tried standup, even if you suck, they have respect for you. If you have a short that's premiering at a real film thing, then there's something going on with you and your brain that these are the things. If you have a short that's premiering at a real film thing then there's something going on with you and your brain that these are the things like if you had a job where you sat around watching tv that some people may love because it just just it's just a stupid job where you get paid to do nothing and it's driving you crazy because you have this creative thing that drives you i get that part of it you know i personally am not super impressed with anything i've done and that's why i'm driven to try to do something else. Again, that's different. So I get that creative thing. For people that aren't

creative, they kind of listen to that and be like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why can't you just check in, do your 40 hours and punch out and save some money and have a nice life? What the fuck's wrong with you? And sometimes I think those are the people that haven't figured out because they're not driving themselves crazy. But it's also a huge mistake to assume that that person actually is the happiest because they're content and they don't have the stresses of people trying the more difficult careers but it seems like you've hated your experience in every turn so i would ask you like why would you want to keep pursuing this if you already seem like you hate it and as far as the jaded part of it, yeah, I mean,

that part of it sucks. I don't know if it's that it's so hard in the beginning for so many of us that we resent everybody else after us. I personally can really kind of only speak to me in that my idea was like, if you brought something to the table, I was great to you. If you brought nothing to the table, I would just sort of ignore you. But I wouldn't go out of my way being like, oh, well, I made $12,000 my first year. My car was repossessed and my first few jobs were terrible and everybody lied to me and Sporting News gave me a fake contract. So now I'm going to be an asshole to every 25 year old that shows up in the PA program. Like I wouldn't do that. I guess some people would. You also have to deal with the fact that like some guys are so big, they're such a big

deal that they just let it get to their head. And I mean, there's times where there'd be sports center anchors and I'd be like, hey, you're good at reading fucking highlights, bro. But like, you're not DiCaprio, you know, like the way you carry yourself.

So that happens a little bit too. So I just would get back to the original point of this whole thing. I think you've answered, you hate, you seem to hate it at every turn. I would find out some other way where you're more fulfilled creatively,

where you're not dealing with what appears to be an experience that you've hated. You didn't say one thing positive about this, so why are you still pursuing it? I would shift. I would make that shift. And just because you didn't like the sports part of it, you didn't like that part of it, again, the film part of it's even harder. I would, I would work on the creative stuff in your spare time. And I would, I would figure out a way to try to find fulfillment in a different path because it seems like you were miserable every time you were doing shit. Like when you say, Oh, I was on the

couch, I wasn't going to make any money. I didn't even think about it at those times. I was like, all right, whatever. All right. And that's kind of the way you have to be. I'm not saying it's fair. I'm not saying it's cool. I don't know if this industry is going to be overhauled at some point with the entry level. But look, folks, the younger folks listening,

life finds ways of weeding you out. And these industries that are really, really hard, the beginning is to kind of weed you out. Like, who's serious about this? We can get to all sorts of other discussions about, you know, who survives and who doesn't, all that kind of shit. Some people just get straight up lucky and some people have access that other people don't have. But, you know, my shit was sucked in the beginning. Sucked for years.

Years, man. All the times I was going to quit, but then I was like, eh, nah. I was like, whatever. I was like, what like what am i gonna do get an office job i was so fearful of what normalcy would be that i was like as much as this sucks i have like my only choice is to succeed i don't have any other choice so you kind of have to be in that mindset it sounds like you're not kyle yeah it sounds like it sounds like you got a bad attitude dude it sounds like the only thing you're suited for is to be a stand-up comedian but you quit that because you got a bad attitude, dude. It sounds like the only thing you're suited for is to be a stand-up comedian, but you quit that because you have a bad attitude.

I don't know. Whoa, Kyle not even fucking around today. I think there's just a job. I mean, I've never really had a job that I was like, this is awesome. I mean, I don't think... Wait. I think everybody will complain about everything. Everybody will have something to complain about. Like, I'm sitting here

right now thinking about the good stuff of my other jobs, but when I i'm sitting here right now thinking about you know thinking about the good stuff of my other jobs but when i was there i wasn't thinking about that so i i don't know i just think you just fucking find a hobby to do when you're not working or something to take the edge off dude i think i think you're gonna be like this whatever you decide to do so you're just gonna have to figure out a way to not hate everything so much i think kyle's in a little bit of a mood today because we had a long taping so this might be So you're just going to have to figure out a way to not hate everything so much. I think Kyle's in a little bit of a mood today because we had a long taping. So this might be where we're at.

He's like, let's get this thing going. Let's get the show on the road. But no, I actually think, Kyle, I think you're right. The guy comes off really negative. I would just say, hey, what do you like? Do you like anything? Like, all right, you like, you know, potentially, you know, the film stuff and that's cool. But you can get a normal job and still try to do the film stuff so that's what i would suggest but i would first and foremost find shit that makes you happy because i don't know what in your life like you know everything you

described was so negative and while i think yeah you could be right on a lot of those things you can't go through life just being like this sucks i'm jaded all the people around me suck they're either nerds or they're like shitheads yeah what are a or b come on and sometimes i think like we i get lumped into that of like one or a or b come on and sometimes i think like we i get lumped into that of like oh everything sucks or like i'm you know i'm too negative i kind of think i'm more of a realist but you know too negative but like even i acknowledge that you can't live your entire life 100 like that you got to find things that make you happy man so that's what i would say first and foremost yeah there just wasn't and again you know we're only we only

have access to the information in the email so maybe there's a more well-rounded out version of this guy. He's like, no, I actually like this part of it. This is kind of what I wanted to see. But none of that was in the email. None of it was in there. I just. all right the stuff that's really hard and you're not this you know once in a lifetime talent which most of us aren't believe it or not i know your mom likes you but it it doesn't you know a lot of this shit doesn't work that way you know like i've already told these versions of stories before but when i first first got the stuff at espn and people were like wait what like that guy i think he's going down to espn fill in and i just asked man i just fucking asked i asked mcshay to get a tape to somebody that mattered because i got laid off and because i got laid off i was scared to death and i didn't even get just laid off at Sporting News. They paid me, I've already told this, but they paid me a three-year deal, 100 grand.

It was like 100, 110, 125 for three years. And I was like, finally, I can fucking save money. I'm not going to be broke all the time. I'm not going to go out with my buddies on a Friday and hope the ATM card works. Like this shit is over now. I'm 30 and it's over. It's finally going to happen. Here we go. And they were like, over and it's finally going to happen. Here

we go. And they were like, nope, we're actually going to lay you off after we all agreed to terms and I signed the contract and sent it back to legal for them to handle it. Sporting news. I'll never fucking forget it. I remember what the phone call was like in my office that day. I remember my agent and I call him and go, are you fucking kidding me? And he's like, well, I talked to them and they know that i am as just as upset as you are and i was like that doesn't do anything for me dude that doesn't do anything for me i just lost 330 000 coming to be there next three years and that was going to be a monumental amount of money for me and when i when they laid me off and they have you know your cardboard backs for it's

really the only job i've ever lost cardboard Cardboard box. And then the security guys walked into your car and you're like, well, are you fucking serious? And he's like, dude, I have to. I'm like, you think I want to stay? They're like, well, we have to do this with everybody in case you go crazy. I was like, yeah, all right, whatever. And so I bring my box to the car and I'm just like, what am I going to do? And because I'm in that mode, I'm forced to react. I'm forced to do something. You know, there are two different people, man. I got severance and I immediately was like, how am I going to fucking fix this? Other people get severance.

They go. Mexico. You know. When I lost my slot to Stephen A, I had. Nine months of money coming to me. A lot of money. And people were like, you should just do something you would never do before. I'm like, maybe I'll go to France.

Maybe I'll finally do that thing in France. It was colder though, so I was like, I don't know if I want to go right now. You know what I did instead? I started a podcast two weeks later. You know the good news about all of this is if you google sporting news the second thing that comes up is does sporting news still exist so who won in the end to be honest that was dirty man it was really fucking dirty i don't even i wonder if that guy still works in the business but i've told these stories before but there is a point of me sounding like

i'm just giving myself credit is that you have to be wired a certain way to deal with all the shit you will deal with. Okay. You will deal with a ton of things that you do not like. It doesn't mean it's right, but that's what it is. That's what it is. That's it. You don't like it, fucking pick something else. But you have to keep thinking that you're working towards a goal to make it all worth it at least i knew that part of it in the email or i don't even we never even got to the goal part of it so all right that was a monstrous amount of time on that um that should probably be the last time i tell that story because i've told it too many times i just i'm just trying to explain there are so many times with this stuff where

you'll be like uh i don't want to deal with this i want to quit but you know same deal with my home depot thing that i always think about because there was a time right after college there was somebody who was like hey i could probably get your job as the home depot and you would start here was you could be you know you could be the general manager of home depot in 10 years and this is how much those guys make and we're like holy fuck this is crazy that's a great gig um you know chance i could have lost that one too i would have took it would you have i would have took it the home depot management training yeah the perks must be out of control kyle just shows up they're like tell us a little bit about yourself kyle just goes business is my fucking wait we got a follow-up to kyle at the toughest guy that went to st lawrence um i i don't know is this i played football in a few. I got to know the claimant's base. Is the guy's name Zoe?

Yep, that's him. All right. So, uh-oh, we got some St. Lawrence stuff going on. Quick follow-up. Life Advice Pod last Monday. Pretty sure I know the guy Kyle is talking about. I played football with him two years at St. Lawrence. I got to know what that claim is based on.

No disrespect to Zoe. He's a great dude, was always cool to me, but I can't have Kyle thinking he's the great dude was always cool to me but i can't have kyle thinking he's the baddest dude walking around campus so it sounds like our emailer was pissed that you ranked this guy so high in the badass right that's fine i bet he would beat the emailer up and i think really that just kind of takes the credibility out of the email all i'm saying is uh i was really good friends with his girlfriend he came over um because we were at Potsdam, and he was around, beat up a couple guys on Potsdam, and we became pretty close friends.

We played pickup basketball and whatever, going to his wedding this year. So honestly, still, I don't care what you think, guy. Okay. Do you think the emailer is really tough, and he felt like Zoe was getting too much credit? No, honestly, I almost think the emailer is really tough and he felt like zoe was getting too much credit no honestly i almost think the emailer is like the other way i think he's the other way and like maybe he's compensating for something i don't know what's going on with this i don't know why

you'd write in for this i think if the emailer were legendarily tough he that's not the kind of person that writes in an email to say that that's tougher exactly exactly this zo guy wait till the cubicle finds out about this um we probably don't well i don't know maybe we would have them on slow wednesday or something like that uh we had a middle school that we had a middle school teacher that said um fifth sixth grade teacher the last seven years i can assure you the axe body spray is still alive well the moment middle school boys hit puberty talk, they douse themselves with Axe like it's going out of style. This is known as the middle school shower because why clean up with warm water, body wash, and shampoo when you can simply blast pungent Apollo fragrance

all over your clothed body? If for whatever reason there is a middle school boy listening to this right now, God, I hope not. Please, for the love of God, that'd be great. Be like, we got your numbers back. You're crushing it with seven players. For whatever reason, middle school boys, please, for the love of God, use

the double pits to chesty method of Axe body spray. It's not a fire hose. So he's just doing a cross torso pollination. Do I read any other ones? I had another another media one but we went so fucking long on that one i think i think we're done let's just be yeah another media one i don't

think we have another media one in us not with you at the helm i don't think so the audience is always growing so at times i uh i i will be repetitive on some of those things but i i don't know i guess i'm whenever i talk to somebody who's younger, it's like, oh, really? You have to do that? I'm like, yeah, you do, man. You kind of do. I'm like, oh, I just have to move? Like, well, I kind of like Chicago, though.

Oh, do you? You like Chicago, huh? So you're not willing to move anywhere else and you want to be on the air? Yeah, it's just, I mean, I love the Blackhawks. Like, okay. Good luck. Life advice, lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. We will talk to you on Friday.

Joe Klatt, college football, his pick for the national championship game. And we'll talk conferences as we will close it out with a losing conference record for the SEC. So it'll be fun to talk to them about that and i think we're good so you look like you have something else to add no we're good no uh i know kyle wants to get out of here let's do it we'll do it all friday okay sounds good we'll talk friday thanks kyle and steve Thank you. you