The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Jalen Green’s Rise, Ohtani, and World Series Picks With Jeff Passan. Plus, Doug McDermott Talks Wemby, Creighton, and More.

Episode Date: March 28, 2024

Russillo opens the show with a Tales From the Couch focusing on Jalen Green’s amazing month (0:45). Then, ESPN’s Jeff Passan comes on to preview the biggest story lines in baseball, discuss the Shohei Ohtani scandal, and reveal his World Series picks (20:34). Next, he’s joined by Doug McDermott to learn more about his relationship with his father and find out what playing with Wemby was like (68:35). Plus, Life Advice with Ceruti and Kyle (95:36)! How many rabbits is too many? Check us out on Youtube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Jeff Passan and Doug McDermott Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I love today's episode. Doodle little tales from the couch, a focus on Jaylen Green's incredible night last night in Oklahoma City. Jeff Passon, we're going deep. We're talking baseball, just two baseball guys hanging out, loving, loving the game. Almost an hour on that and his World Series pick and Doug McDermott. Now of the Indiana Pacers. I can't wait to have you guys respond to this interview.

Great storytelling, his times in Chicago and also rooting for his dad and Creighton this weekend and life advice. We'll do a little Tales from the Couch. I'm not going to get to a million games here. I want to get to what I thought was important from last night. The most important thing and yes, teams are missing players, but the most important thing was Jane Lynn Green with the Houston Rockets last night. He was incredible. We're going to spend some time on it.

So no SGA for the Thunder. Chet Holmgren, bad game for him. Oddly enough fouls out with 8.48 to go in the fourth quarter. So Houston, who's been on kind of this small thing with Jabari at the five or Jacques Landel, who Jacques, I've just liked, you know, I know what he is. I know what he isn't, but what he is is what I like. And I think there's times in the past

where I've seen him get limited minutes. I'm like, man, like I probably could play some more as a rotational big. I don't expect that anybody would think they were going to have them be their starting center. So looking at how this is playing out here with Shingoon being her and even with Chet healthy, you're like, okay, Oklahoma city is a little small, but they've got the other Jalen Williams to play.

And then Kenridge Williams is playing basically some five for them when Chet's gone for almost the entire fourth quarter So that means a couple different things on the offensive side with no SGA. It means that Jalen Williams the one that scores Season-high 23 field goal attempts last night. He's flirting with a 50 40 and 90 shooting split month He's flirting with a 50, 40 and 90 shooting split month. When he gets an undersized body, like as good as amen is on defense and his instincts and his athleticism, obviously he's a better defender already than Jaylen Green, but like, even if there are these lanky athletic dudes that he either has as the primary defender or gets into a switch, Jaylen Williams has

got a little bit of this kawaii thing in him where he's so stout and he's also a sick athlete, kind of like how Kawhi, you can sometimes forget how explosive and dynamic he is athletically because he just plays with so much pace. But Jalen Williams will get that shoulder into you and he'll either work you to the rim or he'll take that step back. And it's just nasty. Like there's just not a lot you can do with that. You almost need somebody who's more stout to hang with him. Uh, then, then just all that length because the length is

great in the contest. The length is great on some of the, the passing lanes and, you know, trying to defend that way. Like I was watching Utah the other night against Luca and I was like, what are they going to do? And they put Hendrix and Laura Lowry on Luca. Cause it was like, well, maybe going to do? And they put Hendrix and Lowry on Luca. Cause it was like, well, maybe we'll just try to, to go with size because when you think of the way the

roster is for the jazz, you're like, well, George and Sexton and Clarkson, like you can't put them on Luca and look, none of it works against Luca anyway. So it's, it's just something you'll notice where you go. Hey this guy's like six seven six eighties get this massive wingspan you can jump out of the gym you can do all these different things and it was so much in which is just so smart played longer in college. He is somebody that can just get into you physically and move you off of the spot and find a way in a very short amount of time this guy's figure out like real veteran type stuff. I'm in comparison to some of these younger dudes. So the other part of this offense without SGA

last night, and this has gone on now for three straight games, it's Josh Gidey's offense. Season high 31 for him. Last three games, 19 points, 25 points, 31 points. He's 40% from three in March. I've seen in different matchups this season against the Thunder when you're looking at whether it's SGA Williams, Giddy, Chet, you know, maybe it's Wallace, depending on the night, I think Oklahoma City's a little bit more willing to experiment with who they want that fifth guy to be, but you'll look at them and go, okay, well, what is the defense going to give up to try to stop SGA and these drives, or at least impede them or just get him to pull

up instead of getting the rim over and over and over again. I've seen certain teams, it's not like I'm watching every single thunder game and focusing only on this, but I've seen teams be like, all right, get, he's the thing that will give up because the shooting numbers haven't been good enough considering Giddies 31% from three. So it feels like in their game prep, it's like, okay, if that's the closing five and Giddies out there, we're going to sag off Giddy to give help to SGA or Jaylin Williams. Well, the other thing with Giddy is he's down to 25 minutes a game in his third season after 31 a game in his first two. But Giddy got back to being the guy without SGA of initiating all of this offense. And depending on how the substitution patterns worked out, he'd be running

everything because Jane Lynn Williams would be on the bench for certain times. Granted they end up closing together, but you see the points like Giddy on the ball is still the best version of him because of his driving and because of his passing and it's not necessarily shooting. So sometimes he's almost miscast with this group, having to sit around and watch and that's why he's played less minutes. But I thought last night he had a baseline floater where you're like, yeah, this is kind of a reminder of like what the peak version of him is, even if he's

playing less minutes in his third year, which is not good for him. Well, let's talk Jaylen green, because that's really what this is all about. So Jalen last night, 37, 10 and seven, 14 to 24 from the floor, his March numbers are 29, just under 29 points a game, six boards, four assists. His shooting splits for the month are 50 from the floor, 43 from three, 80 plus percent from the free throw line.

But we want to talk possessions. That's why you come to Tales from the Couch. Possessions. Let's talk about the brilliance of Jalen Green last night and this light going off with him. And I thought last night was like one of the best examples. I know he's been lighting it up all month, but I really, really was locked in on it. So we're just going to run through a bunch of things that I love from him. Um, Oklahoma city wanted to try to double him a lot when he was initiating the offense. He split the double towards a couple of minutes into the fourth quarter, as well

as you're going to see anybody split a double team. Like Kobe was the best I think I've ever seen at it. Dwyane Wade rejected the screen a lot. So, you know, if I'm thinking back, like surely Dwyane Wade is his split screens, but I think Kobe's probably the best I've ever seen. I think Kobe's probably the best I've ever seen. I think Kobe's probably the screen a lot. So, you know, if I'm thinking back, like surely Dwayne Wade is split screens, but I think Kobe's probably the best I've ever seen do it. Jalen Green, in the best part was he wasn't just trying to do it all the time, which I think has always been my frustration with him as a player, which we'll get to here when he was a bit younger,

but he splits it with a plan. And then once he's through, it's like Usain Bolt, he's passed everybody. And then it's him going at the rim and now Chet isn't out of there. So there's zero fear whatsoever. And he takes off from like a step into the lane. Boom. He's at the rim and one it's awesome. All right. Next possession.

He's got single coverage with door on him. Blows right past him. And there's just a bunch of undersized guys flailing at the rim. But it's not like we haven't seen Jaylen Green, Jaylen Green finishing its other big players. So we can't just make this out to be like, Oh, Chet fouled out. Yes, it was easier without Chet, but it's not like he doesn't do this against other teams that have all of their guys.

So right past everybody layup got past Dorr. Then there's a three on two after, it might've been a miss, whatever, from Oklahoma city. Van Vliet's got it, middle of the court, Jalen Green's on his right, Jabari Smith's on his left. Van Vliet throws it ahead to green. We're green for the first couple of years. I don't think he makes the pass that he made last night. He's right side.

He could have just kept dribbling, maybe get the free throws. Maybe he finishes in some spectacular way. Instead he switches. He goes right back to Jabari. So it's Van Vliet, right side green, green looks at Jabari in the left side, throws it across the paint, Jabari catches, he gets fouled as he goes up to the layup.

That was my favorite play from Jalen Green last night. It wasn't the best one, but I thought it was the smartest one. Or the one that showed, it probably wasn't even the smartest one now that I think about it, because I've got a bunch written down here. It was the one that showed me that he was like, now, like, I'm, I'm going to, I'm just, I have more awareness. I just don't think he makes that past two years ago.

And maybe there's a clip of him actually doing it at one point, but I think you get the point because it kept going on. Um, it's 102, 101 Houston, Jaylen, Scott, Kenridge against him goes right past him. He gets to the rim. All the help comes up to Jaylen, Scott, Kenridge against him goes right past him. He gets to the rim. All the help comes up to Jaylen green. Amen. Thompson's in the dunker spot. He just drops it right off to him.

Thompson did miss the layer. He gets double later. He doesn't force it. He brings it back out. He resets. Then he drives hard to his left where he's got door with him, but he finds a way to throw this bounce pass to Thompson diagonally across the paint left to right. Thompson makes the layup.

Um, the only play that was like, ah, it was a little tough door. It locked them up pretty good. You're not going to beat door to every single time going at him off the dribble. Jaylen got stuck. It was a little late missed a really tough jumper. But the point is of that one, is that was from this fourth quarter through overtime last night, that was like the only one.

You're like, ah, it might've been a questionable decision, but you're going to have a few of those when you have the ball as much as he does. Like everybody has some of these possessions. The problem is, I think that used to be half of his possessions for me. 20 seconds left. Oklahoma City misses.

That was that weird Kenridge Williams deep shot. That was just a tough look for them. Green goes super fast off the mist, but drives with purpose, but he's driving here fast. Not because he's a young, unbelievable athlete who's out of control. He's driving because he's like, I don't want them to get set. I don't want to get their matchups ready. And he brings it deep in the paint. Everything collapses.

Then he kicks it out to the left corner for Jabari Smith. They hit a three. Um, Jamie Williams hit a three to tie back up. We went into overtime. I'll run through a couple of these green gets double team brings the defenders all the way to him, to the sideline and the right brings them away from the, from the rest of the play swings it quickly to Dylan Brooks, who then hit his second three of the overtime.

It's not just making shots. It's not just hitting threes now at this absurd level, which is the part of him where we've talked about him in March where you're like, okay, but is he really going to be that kind of shooter all of a sudden now? I mean, maybe, but it's, it's kind of an outlier month. The difference is, is that there's just so many good plays in here for somebody. It seems like now he completely understands like, Hey, when I have the ball, there's a lot of stuff that I can do, but it doesn't mean I have to do those things all the time.

Because when I look at his physical gifts and you think in like, all right, I can get by like almost every defender in the league. You know, maybe somebody will get me, they'll close me off. Look, that's right. Right. But if you think of the guys with Maybe somebody will get me, they'll close me off, they'll guess right, right? But if you think of the guys with the ball in their hands, like how long is the list of players, like ball in his hands,

like I think that guy has the best chance of getting past defenders. Jalen Green's pretty high in that, and he was pretty high in it prior to this month where he's exploded, just wasn't necessarily like consistent enough. I know Shingu not being around maybe opens up some more of this stuff.

The offense is gonna look different without somebody who's going to initiate a lot of this offense, which is a good problem to have a worry about that later. I'm not going to worry about it right now. The fact that he is now understanding there's a difference between, okay, well, cool, you can beat every guy off the dribble if you want to, but then what? The, the growth as a player, because I'm sure coaches would tell players like this, yeah, it's great. You can beat everyone, but what you need to be doing is realizing the benefits of beating the perimeter

defense and all the good things that can happen off of it. Some of them might be sick dunks. Some of them might be N1 layups. Maybe it's a floater here or there, but there's also a scrambling defense that's likely outnumbered now four against three and your teammates are going to play that much better once you start continuing to think about them from the point you split the double team and have the advantage. From the point where you beat your defender or the time you're coming up in transition and you're just flying down the court, there's still going to be some really nice options

and you have to keep thinking about those. Cause there's so many young scorers. I'm like, he doesn't even think about anything but the rim. Once the game or once the ball, like that position is in this mode. We're like, okay, this is just mine. And like, you guys could just watch. That's what I thought he was for a long time. And I think that's fair, but last night was incredible for him.

Like really, I just, I just thought high level stuff, man, understanding it and not making mistakes for a good chunk in a close game, a game they needed. Let's look at it now. Houston, the game behind Golden state for the last playing spot, the 10 seat in the West Golden states got nice wins here back to back at Miami, at Orlando. Uh, that was, That was a big win. That felt emotional last night for Golden State. Draymond was suspended after, excuse me, ejected after four minutes.

And a side here on Draymond gets ejected when he came back from the 12-game suspension that it was initially an indefinite suspension after the go bear thing. I don't want to say we got conned. But the way that story played out, where I was like, he needs time. And we're gonna figure some stuff out. And I don't know anything about his, his life. So I don't I don't want to sound like I'm insensitive to all this. But I would say specifically of like the way that this played out where instead of being like, Hey, stop

jumping on dudes, you know, like your team needs you. Don't get thrown out of last night's game. Cause you're pissed at the ref again. Even if you're right, like don't get the second tech. They need you. Orlando's huge. You're not huge. Golden State needs you on the front line. But instead of being like, hey man, this shit's getting old.

It pivoted into people feeling bad or sympathy. I guess maybe I should say empathy in this one. For Draymond, I'm not even mad about it. It's actually pretty impressive when you think about it. You're like, yeah, you didn't like, nothing's different. Nothing's different. But for those couple of weeks, it's like, oh, I hope he gets the answers he needs.

No, he actually just was kind of on a run of doing some shit. You're not supposed to do with games. And now, and by the way, I thought 12 games is fine. People want 20, 25, all that stuff. I'm like, whatever, you know, you're gonna miss some games. It's going to cost you a lot of money, but it's also going to cost your team some wins because he's an awesome player. He's an awesome component to have on your team. Although we know

he's a little different as far as what he brings offensively, but he's super important to that basketball team. So now Golden State's got the fourth easiest schedule to go with 10 games remaining. Houston with their 10 games remaining has the 10th hardest. Speaking of remaining strength, the schedules will finish in Denver, where Phoenix got the win last night, beating the Nuggets again. And thanks to Tankathon for putting these together. Phoenix going into last night. Their opponents. Winning percentage.

For the remainder of the season was six forty five, like off the charts hard. Charlotte was next toughest opponents winning percentage 593. Let's run through Phoenix's opponents here. So last night in Denver at Oklahoma city at New Orleans, Cleveland, Minnesota, New Orleans, the Clippers at the Clippers at Sacramento, at Minnesota to finish up the season. Good luck gang. No Jamal Murray last night.

So I don't know what to make of it other than, well, it's better than losing if you're Phoenix because the offense was really balanced with the three guys. Phoenix kind of looked the way they're supposed to look when we have these expectations for what they can do with those three guys and no Nurkic last night, which I was kind of looking forward to with the Nurkic-Jokic matchup. But without Murray, you know, just good defense from Phoenix and there's just

not enough on the ball creators for the Nuggets to get through a night against a good version of the Phoenix team that we got last night where other than Reggie Jackson, there's just not a lot of guys and kind of initiated into that offense. So you could see Jokic get a little bit more aggressive with a shot taking and they just did a really good job against him. So it's a nice win for them, but I don't know what to make of it. One, because I'm not going to put a ton on it because Murray's not there as Mrs. Third straight game. And I did watch Phoenix and San Antonio on Monday. And if I had done an open where there weren't a million other more important

topics than Phoenix losing a regular season game against San Antonio after playing them two nights prior, I think I'm imagining most of you missed that game. I don't blame you when Banyama wasn't even playing Phoenix sucked in that game. It was disgusting for a team that needs to figure out if they're going to be any good, the effort they gave in that game against San Antonio was terrible. There were so many little stupid mistakes, defensively, Bol Bol getting lost a couple times, Durant getting lost a few times. I mean, Booker, who I think is always up for it,

they had a play in transition where nobody even got to, I think Sohan on the left side, he just blew past like three guys because nobody knew what was going on. Their effort, watching film after that Spurs loss must have been brutal for that Sun staff. I don't even know if they would have watched it with the players because it's like, whatever.

So knowing that that one still lingers in my head, as great as last night was, despite not a full roster, and really the second most important guys we all know with the Denver Nuggets, like I said, it's better than losing it. But that Spurs game was almost like a write them off as being anyone I'm really worried about in the playoffs. Cause I can't believe this late into it,

with all the uncertainty they had when they had all three guys again, that they could have that many bad possessions where they just look lost or maybe they were like, whatever, we beat these guys two nights ago, so it doesn't even matter. Um, that it was, it was so bad that I don't even know how excited I can get about the win against Denver last night and knowing that's the remaining schedule, which is insane.

Um, you know, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to go, Hey, they're not going to beat anybody, but that's how I felt after that game against San Antonio. Say goodbye to Busted Brackets because FanDuel lets you bet on every game of the turning. Whether you're betting on a big upset or a one-seat, it's time to go dancing on America's number one sports book. Right now, new customers get $200 in bonus bets. If your first $5 bet wins. All right, boys, we're gonna go to the experts. I was looking at the public money,

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We're passionate about opening day on the podcast. No one I would rather talk to than from ESPN baseball senior writer. It is Jeff Passon. Good day to you, sir. It is a good day, Ryan. Baseball season is here and we've got scandals abound. And, uh, you know, as, as a reporter and as someone who is, uh, entering, I think year 21 now covering the sport, uh,

I have maybe never been more engaged than I am because there's a lot of fascinating stuff going on. I will get to the Otani story, I promise. And obviously you probably think I want to start there, but I would not do that. I would not do that to baseball. At one point it was my favorite sport. I read your piece up on ESPN.com out today, and you look at the spending of teams,

and you put them into tiers, and I really enjoyed it because I love talking about spending. But I think that point that you hammer while you do this is that baseball has become with a bit with playoff expansion. But when I look at the lineups, there's so many teams where I'm like, man, it feels like there's first five or six. That's like a really tough stretch to get through. And considering the history they've had in the postseason where a league's worst postseason entry based on win totals

has actually made it to the World Series for three years in a row, it feels like we have incredible balance in that general managers are building teams with the idea that this is more wide open than ever before. So why is that? There are two conflicting things going on right now, Ryan. And it's awfully interesting to me to see that payroll disparity,

not just in terms of like standard deviation from the average payroll of one hundred fifty nine million dollars, but with these mega payrolls that you have with the Mets, the Yankees and the Dodgers and nine teams over the luxury tax threshold compared to nine teams that are $100 million below the luxury tax threshold. The disparity right now, I think, is as large in some respects as we've seen

since like the early to mid 2000s. And yet that runs in conflict with this notion that you can make an argument that 26 teams have a realistic shot at making the postseason this year. And in there, you've got the Pittsburghs and the Kansas cities that, you know, realistic is a little bit of a stretch, but there are a lot of teams that believe that they have as good of a chance as any to make the postseason. And the point that you made, I think, is really salient. You don't have to be a great

regular season team to be a great October team. Look at the Arizona Diamondbacks last year, an 84-win team finished 16 games behind the Los Angeles Dodgers and in the division series, swept them in dominant fashion. And that is both the beauty and the agony of baseball that you can spend six months following a team, believe that it's going to go to the World Series, and then in three games, it can be gone like that. And I love that about the sport, but I have no rooting interests for teams.

So fans, I can understand, especially of those juggernaut teams, why they might not be so excited about it. Okay, perfect segue into the Dodgers because they're spending 320 million this year. That is second behind the Mets. They're spending 340 million. But as you point out, the Mets, you know, you read it, it's like they probably don't think they're really primed to compete with Atlanta, with LA, maybe even Philadelphia. Their postseason chances, I think, depending on which projections you look at it, have them at 24% chance of making the postseason where the Dodgers are 99%.

So here's what always blows my mind about the Dodgers is this rotation. The Braves rotation, it just felt like, okay, I'm just picking the Braves again. We go back to when we were growing up and it didn't work out as many times as far as winning a World Series as you would think, because the rotations were such a priority. But then when I look at what the Dodgers have in Glasgow, who I've loved forever, but he's thrown a hundred plus innings twice in his career. He's their opening day guy, Yamamoto, who we've spent a lot of time talking about last time you were on with us, Bobby Miller, a 23 rookie, Gavin Stone

who threw 14 innings last year, and then you've got Paxton who's actually been good when he's actually healthy. But then you think, wait, I'm missing people. And you're like, yes, we are. Kershaw projected maybe to come back July, August. Dustin May, who I loved, maybe August, September. You've got Walker Bueller, who's a stud, but now he's still a little banged up, but his timeline is shorter.

And then look, Otani's not pitching in 24. So we love the Dodgers lineup, but you're like, is this awesome or is it just that they have a million options that at one point were all awesome? I think options are awesome, are they not? You know, you look at what the Texas Rangers, for example, are doing. Their rotation depth to start the season, Ryan,

isn't quite the same as the Dodgers. But they have Max Scherzer coming back in June. They have Tyler Moly coming back in July. They have Jacob deGrom projected to come back in August. And I think what you see now is these teams understand that the regular season is a slog and that if you have the lineup to carry you through the end of the season, then the pitching depth you can like, you can take your time with these guys and you don't have to necessarily rush them back because your offense is so good.

And that's what the Dodgers are banking on. I mean, they're, they're offense, you know, I recorded baseball tonight with Tim Kirchner earlier today. And Tim is the font of baseball knowledge. And he said the Mookie Betts, Shohei Otani, Freddie Freeman, top three of the Dodgers lineup is the best top three he's ever seen. Now when Tim Kirchner is calling something the best he's ever seen,

I'm not just saying cause Tim's old. Tim knows everything. He knows absolutely everything. And if he's saying that, you have to believe it. And it is that freaking good. And so it's in our nature, I think, to look past something like starting pitching now, just because the import of it isn't quite what it once was because, you know, seeing a guy go seven innings, eight innings, complete game is more anomalous than it is regular. But at the same time, when you're out there in October, man, when you're in postseason baseball, you want horses on the mound and the Dodgers, you know, health permitting are going to have their pick of them.

And it's why I think they're more confident than they've been in recent years going into post-seasons. We've had a week or so with the Satani story. I know, you know, when you're on the air, you are a, you know, your background as a traditional reporter. So I'll ask it this way. What do you think happened? I appreciate you asking. You know, So I'll ask it this way. What do you think happened? I, I appreciate you asking. You know, I've had a lot of conversations with Tisha Thompson, uh, this week.

Tisha is the phenomenal investigative reporter who, uh, has been writing the definitive stuff on this story. And she always gets pissed when people ask her, what do you think? Because as she says, it's not our job to think. It's our job to find out what the facts actually are. And so pardon me for sidestepping your question here, because the real answer, Ryan, is I don't know. It's so early in the process right now,

and there are so many facts that we have yet to find out that to render any kind of a judgment on what we know right now, I think would be irresponsible. And I have no problem with people being irresponsible on this because it's a wild story and that's just our nature to do so. But what I look at when I see this right now is I'm confused as shit. I really am. Because when you go from one story that was told by Ipe Mitzohara, the translator

Tsisha Thompson, and then within 24 hours, it pivots entirely. Like logically, you can see how that might happen if the story that Shohei Otani is telling right now is truthful. But there are so many other possibilities out there, and we have seen so many instances in which athletes have lied in the past to try and cover up misdeeds, that our skeptical radars are as attuned

as they have ever been. And that, I think, is the way that we're approaching this in this situation. We're going to report what Shohei Otani says in the version of the story he has while fully acknowledging that there may be other versions of the story we simply haven't heard yet. I tried, but I still like the answer. Let me ask a different way, though, in a way I think you can't answer. What do you think on the current timeline makes the least sense as far as the explanation is concerned?

Well, there's one part of the explanation that we don't know the answer to and that I think is a fundamental part of validating the story that Shohei Otani is telling. If he is alleging that there was a crime committed, and when you use the words massive theft that they did in the statement that was put out the day that the original story ran, generally speaking, when there is a massive theft, there is also the equal and opposite reaction, which is you tell the cops.

There are plenty of law enforcement agencies out there. There is a federal investigation into the entire alleged bookmaking ring and all of the different tentacles it has. But one thing that Otani's camp has not answered when our reporters have asked repeated times is, What Otani's camp has not answered when our reporters have asked repeated times is, to whom did you refer this case? To whom, what agency did you give the details to pursue potential charges for what Otani is saying is a $4.5 million theft? Now, they may have their reasons why they're not telling reporters right now, and I understand it would be in the nascent stages

of an investigation. The idea that Ipe Mitsuura would be arrested for something this quickly is unlikely. But at the same time, I don't think knowing the investigatory unit is going to diminish the case in any way and in their reticence to come out and tell us who is looking into these potential charges. I'm not going to say it's a red flag, but it is certainly curious and I don't

understand the logic behind it right now. I think the language barrier is actually helping him here right now too. Where you're like, what is going on and what was the relationship and how does this work? And you know, that may not be beneficial later on, but I think in the early stages, it's added to the layer of confusion of like, what exactly are you saying as far as the relationship, even though there's prepared translated statement? All right, let's get back to baseball. Back to the diamond, Jeff. Okay. The Braves. You know, I was looking at it last year. They led Major League Baseball 947 runs. That was what? 41 runs better than the Dodgers. That is a staggering number.

Like, historically, when you get over a thousand runs, and not to say that they did, but this lineup, with all the lineups that I really like, before we get started here, is this the best lineup, in your opinion, in baseball? I think so, but I'm not going to discount Texas. I think the fact that the Rangers, Ryan, went out, won the World Series last year and for a full season are going to add Evan Carter, who was awesome as a 21-year-old in the playoffs

last year, and add Wyatt Langford, who they drafted fourth overall out of Florida last year and was so good in spring training this year that actually I'm going to take it back. Wyatt Langford is so good that the Rangers thought about bringing him up to make his major league debut in the world series last year. That is how I know when I read that, when I had read that and I mean the Carter story is nuts, right? But it's like, maybe you get this guy a couple A-Bs in the World Series. I mean, it's just insane to think that that's what they thought of him and certainly why he's gonna

be making his debut here shortly. They love the power, they love the swing decisions, they love the approach, they love the attitude, they love everything about Wyatt Langford and that draft last year. The fact that he fell to four, you ask yourself, this guy's debuting less than a year after he was drafted. Why didn't he go number one overall? Well, it's because the guy who went number one overall was Paul Skeens, who throws 102

with one of the best sliders in the world before he has made his big league debut. Dillon Cruz, an absolute star center fielder at LSU, went number two to the Washington Nationals. Then the Tigers took Max Clark, a high school player, number three. You can quibble with that decision, but the money that they saved there allowed them to get a guy like Kevin McGonigal a little bit later in the draft because that's how the MLB draft works. You can choose to pay the super duper star who's a no doubter all the money up front

or you can spread out your bonus. As a team like the Tigers who have been looking to increase their organizational depth, that was the decision that they made. The fact that the Rangers had a down year moved up because of the lottery, you know, they were not the fourth worst team the previous season. They just got a really good pick in the lottery and were able to luck their way into a guy in Langford

who's gonna be a star and an all star for years to come. It is the rich getting richer and, you know, we'll go back to the Braves in a second. But this lineup that the Rangers are going to have when they're at full strength. Evan Carter, Leori Tavares, who is a very good center fielder and may hit ninth. Adolas Garcia, who looked like the best player in the world in the ALCS last year. Wyatt Langford at DH. Josh Young, who is going gonna hit 30 home runs at third base, Corey Seeger, who's one of the five best players

on the planet at shortstop, Marcus Simeon, constantly an MVP conversation at second base, Nate Lowe at first base, Jonah Himes started the All-Star game at catcher. That's their nine. It's an obscene nine. And to be able to compete with that in Atlanta, I mean, you've got a platoon in left field with Adam Duvall and Jared Kellnick, Michael Harris, a great centerfielder,

Ronald Dacuna reigning MVP in right field, Austin Riley, All-Star at third, Orlando Arcea, All-Star at shortstop, Ozzy Albies, All-Star at second base, Matt Olson, All-Star at first base, Sean Murphy, All-Star at second base. Matt Olson, All-Star at first base. Sean Murphy, All-Star at catcher. Like, some of the lineups, Ryan, that we're gonna see this year, whether it's those two or the Dodgers or even the Yankees that have Aaron Judge and Juan Soto hitting back-to-back, you have these super teams in baseball right now.

And I think that super teams in baseball, I don't know if the same can be said for the NBA, I think super teams in baseball are great don't know if the same can be said for the NBA. I think super teams in baseball are great because baseball, you need villains and that is what we are going to have this year. There are going to be teams that on paper just look too good to be true.

Yeah, and the other thing with super teams, if we allow ourselves kind of the loose interpretation of that term for baseball, it's like, well, a guy doesn't get somebody else's at bat so basketball is more musical in the sense it's like okay but you know if you were taking 20 shots and you were taking 20 shots and you were like one of us isn't taking 20 shots and does that mean you're going to do all the other stuff in baseball you have your individual contest and it really shouldn't matter except for whether or not you believe in the protection

and I certainly do, I just, I still think. I do too. Especially with the way this, I mean, as specialized as some of the bullpen guys are, you think in a way maybe protection is more justified or the concept of it is more believable because I just remember reading about all the arguments that there's actually no correlation between the two

and I just don't think that's true. I think pitchers look in the on deck circle and they're like, Jesus, yes. I don't know why anyone would ever eliminate the human aspect of looking over there and being like, all right, it's just, it's, it's, it's so interesting. It's so interesting, Ryan, like 20 or so years, 20 plus now into the sabermetric revolution in baseball, which I think begat all of the analytics that you see in basketball that changed the game where it has turned into a three point centric game.

And in football where analytics just that word is like still a boogie man and pisses people off because fourth down like fourth and three, you're going for it. In baseball, I think there were some mistakes and I think some of the mistakes had to do with that balance of what the numbers suggest to us and just the ignoring of the human element. I'm sorry, but if I talk to a pitcher and I ask that pitcher,

if you see a guy who's dangerous on deck, are you going to be a little bit more careful with the guy who's at the plate? And they say, hell yeah, every single one of them. The notion of clutch, I had a long conversation with Corey Seeger this spring because I had a premise that I wanted to run by him. Like, does clutch exists? And how do you embody it?

And we had a great conversation about the notion of being clutch and being able to slow your heartbeat in a moment that is pressure-filled and the most important in the game. This guy just time and again has come through with big hits in big moments. The entirety of the story is going to be on, okay, how does Corey Seeger do it? What makes him different? And is it replicable? And these are things that I think Saber Metrics just kind of frowned upon, looked past, discounted. And

there's been a little bit of a bounce, I think, in the opposite direction to try and find that reasonable balance that has to exist when you're in a world where numbers tell you so much, they can't tell you everything. And if you have that balance, that's where the best teams come from, I think. There's still a lot I wanna get to, but I'm just glad you brought up the clutch thing,

because my argument against the people that believe there's no such thing, it's like, well, do you believe that there's somebody in the free throw line who doesn't feel comfortable in the big spot? Cause I'm telling you that that's a hundred percent fucking true. You want to talk to a guy has to line up a putt that matters on the 18th and tell me he doesn't feel a little bit different. And when I remember reading about it early, you know, and I was super into all

this stuff and wondering like, what is it that I believe in that's not true? And I remember digging through the clutch stuff on a baseball prospectus, you know, 20 years ago. And it was, and I'm, again, I'm not a mathematician. I'm not one of those guys. I'm not as educated as those guys are, but I was like, is there any chance this math is so big? Like, as opposed to yelling small sample size every time, can we be

looking at too big of a sample where it just feels like, you know, I remember like Paul Molitor was like the outlier of this one study. And, you know, it just basically kind of like put everybody in this bucket of like, no, actually it, it doesn't really happen. It doesn't really happen. And, and if you can't prove it mathematically, you can't prove it with any stats, then it's hard for me to argue with you. But if you talk to somebody who knows what it feels like to have to take a huge free throw at the end,

maybe the question isn't so much does clutch exist, does comfort exist? And that's what I think of when, there's just certain guys you know are gonna give you a good at bat. And that's maybe what we should be looking to define. I know you have a little on that, but. The difficulty is measuring comfort.

We can't measure what comfort is. Comfort is different for everyone. And so the ability to go out and define it, I think, in the lack of ability rather, to go out and define it, is what makes it so difficult for people whose jobs and whose brains go toward quantification. It's almost like if you cannot quantify something, uh,

fuck qualifying it because qualifying isn't good enough. Yeah, that's, that's exactly, exactly what it is. But I just, I don't, I've never heard a great argument against the person who's not comfortable in those spots and what that means. Um, all right, well look, Houston's comfortable in the ALCS. They've made it now seven straight years. It would be a record tying eighth with the Braves run in the nineties. And again, just for those that don't remember, this started in 1969. So we know the three guys in the rotation for the Astros and they're still the betting favorite for the West, which feels disrespectful to a Texas team that won the whole thing, but it's just the way it is.

And also Seattle, who I think a lot of us like, but you know, when I look at a team and it's like, okay, I like that lineup, but I love their bullpen, bringing in Josh Hader and thinking, okay, there's three guys in the front of the rotation I like right now, because starters four and five felt like a necessity for contenders. Now it just feels like a luxury almost for anybody. But then you've got the Verlander part of it. And I was digging through these numbers again here, Jeff. So I think the Mets total for last year, what they're on the hook and this year

is 65 million for 91, no, excuse me, 94 innings from Verlander. And then it could potentially be another 17 and a half million. We're looking at 75, 82, yeah, like, I don't know, 82, 83 million dollars or the Verlander, if he goes over 140 innings. Now we know that maybe he won't with the setback that he has starting the season.

So it's kind of like, hey, is Houston still your team and is there so much reliance here in Verlander where transactionally, I know they gave up a good prospect for him, it feels like a no win and just a reminder of how bad some of the Mets accounting has been the last year. Yeah, Justin Verlander's 41 years old, we have to remember and guys, generally speaking, do not pitch

into their 40s effectively. That's just something that history, even with modern medicine being as incredible as it is, has told us. And so I think Justin Verlander is the difference between a Houston Astros team that goes back to the ALCS and one that peters out before that. Because as good as Romero Valdez is and as consistent as he's been,

and as good as Christian Javier can be, and as well as we've seen him pitch in the postseason, they need another dude. They need another dude to compete with the sorts of teams that we have in the American League now, with Texas that could have a stacked rotation, and with Seattle that has five guys, once Brian Wu gets healthy, five guys in the rotation, with Texas, that could have a stacked rotation. And with Seattle, that has five guys once Brian Wu gets healthy, five guys in their rotation, all five who throw in the upper 90s and have wipeout off-speed pitches.

Like Seattle's rotation is gross. And if they can stay healthy, they're going to be in the mix. And look, if Garrett Cole comes back for the Yankees, he is the fulcrum of that team. If he comes back, the Yankees can do a lot of damage. If not, wouldn't shock me if they didn't make the playoffs. And we haven't even talked about Baltimore, which won 101 games last year, the most in the American League, and added Corbin Burns in a trade with Milwaukee this winter, and is going to bring up Jackson Holliday, the best player in the minor leagues right now.

They have Kobe Mayo down there and Heston Kursad. By the way, Adley Rutchman and Gunnar Henderson are in the big leagues already, and there's a number of other players on that team. The American League is fascinating to me. As much as the NL feels like a two-team race with the Braves and the Dodgers, let's not forget that the Braves consecutive seasons have been taken out by the Phillies and that

the Dodgers got swept by the Diamondbacks last year. And that playoff baseball is an entirely different beast than the regular season. And the openness of this year, despite these, these lineups and these teams that seem like they are better than others. That's what keeps me coming back every year. That's what keeps me excited for the job. Yeah. I'm with you on Baltimore cause they should be better with just seasoning and

having even more options and then the Corbin trade and they've won 101 and I know they're still not the betting favorite that it's the Yankees, but that's probably more about it. It's ridiculous by the way. It's, it's, I'm sorry. That's, that's just so stupid. Yeah, but it makes it. I agreed. Like, look, Tampa is, we know they're going to be good. Um, Baltimore has the most talent. I, you know, the thing, well, I look at Toronto last year, I know they still won, you know, going over 500 and technically being in the playoffs is cool and all, but like, I really expected a lot from Toronto

last year because of that talent. And, you know, in a way it's like, man, it feels like the talent that I love didn't work out as well in Toronto, but it did work out that well in Baltimore. Um, and then you pencil in the Yankees lineup with the Garrett Cole thing. Like you start looking at their depth of rotation and you're like, how long are you going to be able to handle this? Like how can you stay in it long enough so that, you know, the Dodgers could be

in a completely different pitching staff in August on. And we can see where it is. I don't, you know, the Yankees, no one has that kind of option just waiting around for the second half of the season. And I think it's gonna be tough unless the Yankees just outscore everybody all the time and it doesn't matter.

And I don't know that the Yankees necessarily have the lineup now to outscore everyone. I worry about their age. No, Anthony or Anthony Rizzo is no spring chicken. And Giancarlo Stanton just has not been able to stay healthy. And Aaron Judge is going to be expected to play centerfield this year. And I'm sorry, but a six foot eight, two hundred seventy five pound guy, regardless of how athletic he is, regardless of what level of freak he is playing center field does

damage to your body. It is a hard position to control. Okay. So I'll keep it moving here. Cause it's not going to get to every single team. Cause I know you have stuff to do here. The AL central has made me mad historically now for years. And we know that the schedule changed from the imbalanced one that we had for years, because I would always look at it and be like, okay, who do we got? Oh, cool. This team won the AL Central. Let's look at their breakdown of their record.

Oh, they beat everybody in their division. They beat their brains in, which is essentially half the season. They don't have a winning record. Like all of these teams have losing records in interleague and all of the other divisions combined. So I'm not taking that team seriously once the postseason rolls around. You're playing an entirely different sport. It's like the sixth conference in college football.

You're like, I'm sorry. I don't take you seriously, even if that one team actually might be good. So they changed it last year, as you know, where the division games went from like 76 to 52. And then the interleague bumps up from 20 to 46. I think Seelig and owners when they did this, cause I remember, cause I was super locked into it, they were just like, look, Red Sox, Yankees, 20 times a year, 19 times a year, let's just do it.

Dodgers, Giants, Cubs, Cards, a couple of the other East Coast, like just hammer it because those are the best TV numbers, but it sucked for a fan because you play cool, I saw the A's for six games in three weeks in April and I'm never going to see them again. Like, and I felt like teams were just playing a completely, you know, you can talk how you want about football and divisions. There's 162 of these and some of these teams and the NL central isn't exactly deep this year either, but I'm just so much happier.

Are general managers happy about this? Cause they're probably, look, we know how these guys work. If they're pointing to somebody else, they think has a massive advantage, but that was a massive advantage for whoever led that division when we had the old scheduling, which I'm really happy we're on year two of balancing this out now. Yeah. And if you're a team in the National League West right now and you see not just the Dodgers at the top, but a Diamondbacks team that brought in Jordan Montgomery and Eduardo Rodriguez and re-signed Lourdes Gurriel and traded for Eugenio Suarez and got Jock Peterson and Randall Gritchick

and added that to a World Series caliber roster. When you look at the San Francisco Giants and they signed Blake Snell and Matt Chapman and Jorge Soler and Jung-Hoo Lee, and all of a sudden, you know, they went from the Pocoto projections from the fourth-best team in the National League West to the third-best team in the entire league by those projections. When you see San Diego,

even though they got rid of Juan Soto, they got a really good haul back in terms of arms and then went out and traded some prospect capital for Dylan Cease and they've promoted Jackson Merrill and Ethan Salas, who's an 18-year-old catcher, going to start this year off at AA and maybe in the big leagues, by his 19th birthday. The Padres are doing just fine too. Of course, if you're in that division, you wanna play only 13 times against each opponent and be able to go out and slaughter the centrals

in both leagues when you can. And so it is, I think a balanced schedule is a fairer game. And as, listen, as a Chiefs fan, every year I see they are playing the number one seed schedule. And it's great as someone who has season tickets, because I know all the good teams are gonna be coming in, but you look at fairness and it's like, okay,

some teams out there seem to have an easier path to the postseason. This is about as good as you're going to get. And it's a sacrifice honestly, Ryan, that players have made because travel is a lot tougher than it was in past years because you have to go around the country more than you did in past seasons. It's just better for the sport.

You know, the twins are projected by fan graphs, 80-40, five wins. I think they're most people's pick to win the AL Central. But at least if they get to 85 wins, we'll know that half of the season wasn't against the four other teams that if, if a division winner is going to win it with 84, 85, and it were the old thing, um, I'm just, I'm just happy that this happened, even though I know it's more of a travel and look, and people can talk about, Hey, it happens.

The Eastern conference, Western conference, we'll have a nine and seven or the old 16 game schedule. We had a seven and nine team win the division. You're like, okay, but you're not playing 162. So the randomness of football and how you schedule it out, like it should be more like that. Okay. So that's a bigger picture question.

A couple of things before we finish here. If baseball were a shipping container cargo ship, right. Crossing the Pacific from China to the port of San Diego. And maybe off its direction, and I don't mean to bring this up in the aftermath of the Baltimore bridge, but you understand the point that I'm making. If they were off course a little bit, where is it now? Is it slowly rightening the ship here? Like how do people feel about baseball in general after taking a lot of criticism, I'd say some justified a lot, just kind of turned into a lack of interest. How do you feel about the sport today?

Uh, I'm, I'm conflicted because on one hand I see what they did with the pitch clock last year and think that it's the best thing since sliced bread. Like it just made games so much better with no discernible difference in the actual quality of the product itself. Now, you know, it remains to be seen, okay, does it have any effect on arms and on pitcher health? And if so, that's one area, Ryan,

where I think it's vitally important to quantify rather than just speculate or listen to what guys have to say. At the same time, though, despite the actual product being better, I think we're in a weird place right now, where when it comes to training training data has taken over maybe too much and and I look at pictures and I like this is a personal thing for me because I have a 16 year old son who plays baseball and and who's a good little player and I keep him away from that shit I keep him far away from the track man's and the rap Soto and all of the things that are not teaching him

how to go out there and compete and get outs, but rather they're teaching him how to maximize something. And it's that endeavor toward maximization that I worry is changing the game for the worse, not just because guys are going max effort when they're throwing pitches all the time. And that I think has a lot to do with the amount of injuries that we're seeing, but it also frankly takes away

from the entertainment value, I think, because in a game that has a depletion of stars at this point, one reliable element of stardom was always that you had your starting pitching match up that night and you knew guys were gonna be going deep into games. And this is not to slag relievers by any means, but the reality is if you are a relief pitcher, that means you didn't cut the mustard as a starter.

And so if we're looking at this, this is a very basic argument, but if we're looking at this through the context of, do you want guys who couldn't do the thing to be the ones who are in at the end of the game, and not just the end of the game anymore, but like innings six, seven, eight, and nine, because starting pitchers just don't go deep anymore. There is, I think, a three bears solution potentially. Not too hot, not too cold, just right to get starting pitchers back to the level that they should be and to build stars. But it is limiting the number of pitchers on a staff. You have to somehow incentivize guys not to go out there and try and throw every pitch at their absolute max effort. I think the only way that you can reasonably do that, if at all, is by saying

that by prioritizing going deeper into games. And I'm sorry, but you're not gonna prioritize going deeper into games if the thing that guys are chasing is velocity. The incentive structure in baseball right now is absolutely whacked out. It's problematic because every amateur pitcher who's coming up through the ranks

understands that whether it's scouts, coaches, or otherwise, they're looking at one thing. They want to see what you do on the radar gun. If you can throw a fastball 90 miles per hour, you might be in the mix. But anything short of that, you have to be absolutely exceptional at commanding the baseball. And even then, I think that scouts and coaches are conditioned to look past that and to think that, well, I'm going to follow what the numbers tell me. And what the numbers tell me is that every mile per hour of velocity that you add to your fastball, you are that much more effective. And it's a straight line, man. Like it's not like sort of flat at, you know, 90, 91, 90. No, it's like a straight line down.

Your ERA is lower if you throw harder. It's not always the case, but that's the beauty of numbers that they give us generalizations and that, you know, people are going to follow what the numbers tell them and into a place, unfortunately, I think that is detrimental to the game. I was reading Jason Stark this week, getting ready for opening day. And his number was that there were 64 pitchers last year who threw a pitch at a hundred miles an hour plus in 2018. That number was 37. You know, I mean, it's just,

it tells you everything you need to know. And look, I have seen the training of velocity with my own child and I've seen the chasing of velocity with him too. And I'm conflicted by it. I'm conflicted because I know he has aspirations to play in college and to be as good of a pitcher as he possibly can be.

But I also know that when that's your MO and that's your motivation to throw harder, that it puts you at risk for your own collateral ligament tearing. And I saw this, you know, it's been more than 10 years now since I started recording VR. And it came out in 2016, and all the shit that I said in that book,

it has come true. And I'm not saying that to pat myself on the back, but more to say, this was- No, I need to read it. I never read it, Jeff. I gotta read it. I was thinking about it. Ryan, this was obvious back then

that this was obvious back then that this was the direction that it was going in and that the more individualized training got, the likelier that players were to find these unicorn pitches that they now throw and that these unicorn pitches come at a cost. They come at a price and that price is your health and it's not just like the physical health, but it's the wellbeing of the game too.

When some of the best people out there are incapable of pitching because their arm just cannot hold up to what they're asking it to. I was thinking about the health of arms, you know, and I remember Verducci used to have that awesome piece that he would write every year of like the guys that were the most likely to be like, he was like, okay, this is the innings pattern. And then this is like over the line of abuse based on how he had tracked it. And then it was like, okay, so these are the red flag pitchers going into next year. And I think he was actually pretty good with it from where I remember reading it every year, because it was one of my favorite pieces.

And then we'd argue, you know, every one of us sitting there with a pitch counter home being like, you're going to get this guy out of there. As if there isn't a difference. It's a bit like the clutch comfort talk that we just had. Like, man, there's a hundred pitches that are easy and there's 85 that are brutal. And you don't, I mean, you kind of have the only reason, reason the only way you know is if you watch the entire game or you know the pitcher or even another level you're in the clubhouse a lot kind of stuff and it reminds me a bit of you know the quarterback stuff that I spent so much

time on in the first round is that maybe this is just what it is that it's not solvable and baseball's tried all of these different things but now watching guys gear up and try to maximize velocity and spin rate in ways that just feel like science fiction. You're like, so wait, this is the solution? I thought we were trying to save all these guys. All right, a couple quick things here because I want to let you go, you're a busy guy.

I love how when you broke down the preview and the spending tiers, we got to my favorite organization in sports, the Oakland A's. So their opening day payroll is $80.5 million. I don't normally like doing this to guess. I don't love it when it's like thrown at me out of nowhere. When you're like, wait, you forgot where Mill Palacio went to school? Like, I thought you watched basketball and you're like, sorry, dude.

Yeah, I forgot. Do you want to take a guess? Cause you're so good at this. I'm like, sorry, dude, yeah, I forgot. Do you want to take a guess? Because you're so good at this. I'm gonna put you on the spot. Do you want to take a guess which year the A's current $80 million payroll would have been the highest payroll opening day for a baseball season?

I'm gonna guess it was 1990. Let's see. Okay. So the Yankees started to get, I'm going to guess 1992 or 1993. No. Close though. Very close. 1998.

98. That late. The Baltimore Orioles had a $70 million payroll. You know, I thought that the Indians who I grew up watching in Cleveland. Big spike mid-90s and Baltimore was out of control. Then the Yankees kind of like ran away with it there. But go ahead, keep your thought. Yeah, it was Baltimore, it was the Yankees.

And when the Indians were signing Albert Bell and Kenny Lofton and Carlos Villarga and Omar Vizcayl and Jim Tome to these long-term contracts, I thought that might have bumped it up, but the Indians never spent a whole lot on pitching. So, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it's just, you know, the average salary or the average payroll this year being 159 million is, you know, it has taken a significant spike in recent years. And that just goes to show, like, And that just goes to show, like, when you look at the A's are like a full standard deviation plus below the average payroll. It's just an embarrassing franchise. The whole thing is embarrassing.

Somebody reached out to me because I had the A's, the White Sox, the Rockies, and the Nationals in the same category. They all have less than, I think the best among them has a 0.2% chance of making the postseason. So I put them all in an also ran, not really trying category, not fully tanking necessarily, but not going for it like others. And

I heard from someone who said, you put the A's in the same category as us. They are they are just such they are a they are like the willfully ignorant human being who should understand everything that's going on around him or her, but just don't care. They don't care about being as bad as they are. And listen, I don't think they're going to be like 110 loss team. I think they've got more talent than they have in recent years. And I think they've got a couple of guys who are at very least interesting. Zach Elloff is like a real guy. Like he's going to be their second baseman this year.

I mean he's already like team captain and he's had like 60 games of big league experience. But the idea that you are going to take this team, Ryan, move them to a city like Las Vegas where the entertainment options are greater than anywhere in the country outside of New York and maybe L.A. and try and convince fans to come and watch them when they've got the Raiders, when they've got the Knights, when they're going to have an NBA team sooner than later. It's laughable. And beyond laughable, it's just sad.

It is. The whole thing is sad. And one of those cases where I understand if you're a business person and you wanna chase money, that is your right, but that doesn't take away the sadness of the entire operation and really the entire story going the way that it has. Yeah, it's just gross. And when you look at the new changes with lottery picks and the way it's

designed now in the baseball draft, you know, there's, there's really no incentive now, um, to, to be this bad and try to mirror what some of the other franchise has did before they'd made some of these changes. All right, real quick, rapid fire, that's lined up in baseball. I'll stick with Atlanta. I'm sorry, Rangers. You did, I might be wrong on that one but you you know you go with the team that that pushed a thousand runs last year. You made a very strong

case for the Rangers in fairness like you spent a good chunk on that. All right best rotation? I want to see Brian Wu get healthy but I think it's Seattle. Best bullpen. Philadelphia is sneaky, really good. They've just got a lot of guys who throw hard and have like plus to plus plus. You like their depth better than Houston? It's exactly right. It's more of a depth thing. Because if you want to talk about the best back end of the bullpen, it's unquestionably Houston. When you go Brian Abreu, Ryan Presley,

Josh Hader, it's not quite the equivalent of the top of the Dodgers lineup in terms of effectiveness, but it's not far behind. World Series picks. I've got Atlanta coming out of the National League. And by the way, we haven't mentioned Chris Sale. He's been awesome this spring. And when you add him into a rotation that's got Spencer Strider, who I think is going to strike out 300 guys this year, and will end the year as the best pitcher in baseball. Max Fried, who himself, multi-time All-Star, a guy who's been absolute nails in the postseason. And Charlie Morton.

It's a nasty, nasty rotation. And so Atlanta between the rotation, a really deep bullpen there as well, and a lineup that just mashes. I've got them in the National League and in the American League, I've got Baltimore. I just, I buy this core. And while Kyle Bradish elbow injury

really hurts their rotation depth, starting with Corbin Burns at the top and Grayson Rodriguez, who's gonna be coming into really his first full season as a starter. And even though they're missing Felix Bautista at the back end, the Orioles do a really good job of finding effective relievers who may not have been effective in other places and that lineup They're just all really mature

Like they take good at bats They do not let the moment get too big for them and they're supremely talented on top of that and then in the World Series I've got the Braves winning for the second time in four years That is Jeff Passon. I appreciate this amount of time on opening day and I'll check in with you after my live fantasy draft. I've got a few guys, a lot of depth with the young second baseman. So I may have to go pull up some of my baseball America stuff because I think at the major league level, I'm like, I'm not sure there's the fantasy depth there. You know, do I go with Wyatt or I go to Churio? You know, there's some young guys. I always like to lean a little young. You know how I like

to do it. So I do. Are you going to be, are you going to be running, are you going to be running your draft again, uh, as an episode? Yeah, that's the whole point. But I like to see a couple games, really it comes down to scheduling. So I was like, Oh, I was like, I'm not going to be able to do that tonight. So I didn't do it before opening day, which I think is the same thing as last year. So now my new excuses, I'm just a big movement guy. I want to see how guys move around. I want to see how their, their plant foot is landing. You know, if I don't like something I'm like, Oh, he's not seeing the dot.

It could be a tough three or four weeks. I don't want to draft him. So I just try to, I try to cram as much as I can in the first weekend of baseball. And then I kind of just, you know, I got my notes. I'm like, well, I think he is picking up the slider and then, you know, I have my board and I adjust accordingly. So I'm excited about it. Ryan Rosillo scout at heart. Yeah. Once I figured out that Shay Hillenbrand, I was like, you know what? He swings at too many pitches. So then he came in next year and just decided no matter what, he would never swing at the first pitch and then it would just start over again. And it was always oh and one. I was like, I don't think that's really an adjustment. I don't think that's

real patience or thinking out your at bat. You were just like, I'm so sick of everybody talking about how I see 3.2 pitches per at bat. And that with this new Theo Epstein approach, I'm supposed to take more pitches and get into the bullpen and all this stuff we thought sounded futuristic. And I remember just sitting there being like, so you just decided this you're going to take every single first pitch every at bat. And then you're like, okay, now it's time to hit down, down on one. Um, yeah, I was, I was super into it. You know that we already know that that was when I would go back and watch

the O two games when I was minor league baseball's rising star in O two. Uh, but I'm excited, man. I'm excited for the season because I just think there's so many awesome. Lineups. Uh, and I'm going to have to watch a lot of other stuff other than the red socks. It sounds like, so no red socks questions. I have none for you because I have, I have no passion for it right now. I don't blame you for one second, but I do very much appreciate that. Uh, at its heart, this, uh, this podcast still loves baseball. So thank you for that. And thank you for disseminating this to an audience that might not listen otherwise.

You're the best dude, thank you. Excited to do this. He's been in the NBA now a decade and big college numbers as well. Creighton's Doug McDermott as you get ready for the weekend. What's up man? Good to see you. You too Ryan. It's good to be on. You know obviously really excited for this weekend with Creighton playing. You know I should be saying that I'm really excited to play the Lakers tomorrow but obviously I got Creighton on my mind at 10-15. Thankfully we play at 7-15 so I'll be able to do both. So how often do you just watch the games and then immediately talk to your dad after?

I mean, I imagine that's, that's a pretty often occurrence, but like how does that conversation work? I mean, I'm locked in at all times. You know, even if we're playing, I got a ball boy, I got a trainer on the, on the bench, you know, checking the scores and you know, I'm really invested in creating basketball, just constantly getting updates even I'll ask people in the crowd sometimes sitting courtside, Hey, you got your phone on yet? Can you check the Crayton Yukon score? So it's always a, it's always a stressful time. But I try not to talk to my dad too much right after games his games

Especially he'll definitely hit me with some good techs after some of my games Just the coach and him and the dad and him, but I try not to go there with him after his games I let him kind of decompress and then we'll talk about you know the coming days So you won't be like hey, how come you guys did this you'd never do that with him. I don't really question him He's a lot smarter than I am I've learned a lot from him but I try not to give too much advice sometimes I'll give him shit you know if you didn't foul you know up three you know sometimes he's stubborn with that but uh you know he's he's stuck in his own ways with that stuff do you notice stuff and we realize the games are

different but you know the way you saw the game when you're there lighting it up and then you get this many years in the NBA and then you think about your preparation and the things that you're looking for. Do you notice something to be like, I can't even tell him that or I can't even point that out because it's just so different, it's pointless? It's just so different. It's pointless. It's just so different. Yeah, like you said, being in the NBA 10 years, just the different rules that there are, you know, obviously the defense at three in college is like some I didn't really think about until like I got in the NBA. I mean, just so much more space to play with in the NBA.

Just the rules. I mean, not being able to advance the ball at the end of games, you know in college, you know, I think you see You know, you can you don't have a end of game play because you can't advance the ball I think if you saw the NCAA change that where you can call a timeout You'd see a lot more buzzer beaters a lot more strategic strategic plays towards the end of games and that's something I wish college had strategic plays towards the end of games. And that's something I wish college had, just some different rules here and there that the NBA has. And that, I mean, I think it'd make it a lot more exciting

to watch, but you know, it is what it is. You know, you see the Leighton play, you know, the Grant Hill Leighton play, they show it over and over again, cause you just don't see a lot of plays like that in college. So that's something that I think would be awesome. Yeah, I agree with that big time. Cause I just think like, Hey, it makes it more fun when the ball's advanced and then you have a side out of bounds and

you're, you're on your side of the court. Like it just gives you a better chance. It's a bit like college football rule where the clock stops in the first down. Um, I just, I just like stuff that makes the end a little bit more exciting because I think with all the reviews that we have at both levels, you know, we miss the moments.

Like there's very little back and forth for three possessions late in a close game. And that drama is supposed to build and you're supposed to have that kind of moment where you're like, you're not sure what's going to happen. It's just, it's just hard, I think, to ask the players and even the crowd. Or it's like, okay, you just chill out for five minutes while you're confused and now come back because the game's tied and be just as excited as you were. I think it's really, it's one of my favorite things.

It's like, let's make everything, let's fix everything by making it worse. For sure. And you know, I think if you're down three in college and there's like four or five seconds left and you don't have a timeout, I mean, you just, you assume the game's over because, I mean, rarely are you going to game's over because I mean, rarely are you going to make that full court pass. Someone's probably going to foul, you know, in college, you can take a timeout, drop the play and have a good set.

And, you know, I think another thing is that's huge in the NBA is the six fouls compared to the five in college, because so many times in college you'll see a star player get two fouls in the first eight minutes of the game and they're sitting the whole half and it just ruins the game at times. In the NBA, you get six, I think an extra foul obviously is a huge difference. A lot of times, refs aren't calling fouls on Yoke, or Embiid, or MVP type player because they kind of know that this is for you know there's some ratings here you know you obviously we want to watch the best players and sometimes in college the best player goes out and it's like why am I even

watching this you know this this not gonna see him the whole half yeah that was like that George Chan Ohio State Final Four and I was like oh great everybody has files awesome okay let's uh let's go back to the start of your stuff because you've played for a bunch of really great coaches Was it tougher to play for your father in college or Tibbs as a rookie Tibbs? Tibbs Tibbs by far You know the thing with Tibbs, you know, I obviously loved the guy I mean it was it was a tough year for me not playing and whatnot I honestly don't know if he knew my name. I think a few times he called me Kyle that was Kyle Corber

from the year prior. So I always told Kyle that and he's like, man, I don't think he knew my name either. And I played for him for three years. But I mean, just the way he... Looking back, it was the best thing that happened to me. He just taught me how to be a pro. Always there early, there late, just being a good teammate. You know, I don't think I've ever been late for a bus in the NBA because I was so scared of walking on the bus and, you know, Tibbs looking at me. So I think that kind of stuff prepared me so much. You know, there's one time where I was out on the court warming up like three hours before the game and Tibbs called me into his office. He had his video guy come get me. And I was like, man, I finally might have cracked the

rotation here. I might have a conversation with Tibbs here. And he gives me the classic, come on, man. I'm like, what did I do? And I guess my phone was on loud in the locker room as he was drawing up like the plays and the strategy for that night. And, uh, he's a, you gotta have your phone on silent, man. And I think that was the last time I talked to him that season. Was he with, was he like that with everybody? Uh, I mean, a little bit, you obviously Joe Keam and Derek and Taj and, you know, Kirk Heinrich, the more veteran guys, uh, you know, obviously had a, a

better, you know, feel for him, but as a rookie, obviously had a better feel for him. But as a rookie, I mean, I think it's part of his deal. It just, you kind of got to fear him. And I think I've told him this before, I've been on a lot of teams. Whenever I see Tibbs, I always try and thank him because I just think he was a huge part of getting me to where I am today.

I just, he built so many good habits for me at a young age and it sucked at the time, you know, I hated it. I was miserable. Uh, but looking back, I mean, everything else has been kind of easy since. You know, Joe is one of my favorite players because I couldn't stand him at Florida and I don't really know why. I mean, I guess it was a really good team. I think it's cause I liked Horford so much more.

And there was that stretch where people were like, Oh, if Noah comes out, he's going to be the number one pick. And I was like, no way. I was like, he's not that kind of guy. And then he got to the league and then I loved him. He became one of my favorite guys. And I think about like the personality that you have and is you're telling tip stories like with Noah, I could just see Noah being impervious to that.

Just being like, you can be as mean as you want to be, but like, I'm just going to have the best time. And then, you know, sometimes I think about you and this is like a bigger thing, but when your dad is such a big part of your life and you're, you're more likely, your personality is going to be like, I'm going to defer to him a bit. Like it would probably blow your mind to see somebody in that power dynamic to be like, wait, you're not going to listen to your coach. And I don't even know what Noah was necessarily like.

I just think I know his personality well enough that he just wasn't going to let that stuff bother him no matter what. Also because he was really good and played his ass off. Yeah, I think you're spot on with Joe. You know, obviously here I am coming from playing for my dad, you know, kind, being a yes man, trying to impress all the NBA coaches.

And then my first day on training camp, doing closeout drills, and I see Joakim just sitting there, skipping the drills like, I don't need this shit. I'll be ready for the games. And Tims would just laugh it off because they had been together for so long. They'd already been together for like four or five, six years. And, uh, you know, it was crazy. You know, the relationship was awesome. You know, I think, um, obviously there were some practices where those

guys weren't wanting to do stuff, but once that ball is tipped, um, and at the United center, you know, they're ready to go, go to war for that guy. And, uh, you know, it was pretty, pretty cool to be a part of that. Yeah. I could see a coach being like, as long as I get the Noah, we get in the game for 30 plus minutes. Then I'm not worried about it. Cause that guy played hard.

Uh, and that's what ended up being the thing with me. I was like, everybody should want this guy on the team. So if we run through the coaches that you've had, it's Tibbs. Uh, it's Hoyberg, Billy Donovan with OKC, you had Hornacek, Carlisle, Nate McMillan, Nate Bjorkren, Pop, and then Carlisle again. Now they're back with a pace. I think the easy answer that maybe you give us in the post game is like, hey, all these guys are prepared and everybody's the same. But what's actually different? Like, oh wow, we prepared this way with this guy or this was a priority, this wasn't.

And I'm not here necessarily to have you be negative about any of them. I wanna just learn more about it from you and that you've played for some major names in the NBA. I wanna know what was different about different stops for you. Yeah, I mean, do we have all day? As long as you want, man.

This is great. I mean, I've played for so many guys, like you said. And obviously, I feel like the number one thing is accountability. And the guys like Pop, guys like Rick, they can hold guys accountable because they've won titles. They've had Tim Duncan, they've had Dirk, and those guys have respected them for them to be able to do their job.

I've played for some other guys, some really smart guys that just don't have that pedigree, that championship pedigree. It doesn't take anything away from how smart they are exit and O's wise. Those are some of the smartest guys I've played for. But if you don't have that background, it's hard to hold star players accountable. I think that's the great thing about Pop and Rick. They're going to treat Tyrese and Pascal and Wemby the same way they're going to treat me or TJ McConnell.

I think that's the biggest difference to the NBA is being able to hold the whole locker room accountable. Because if you're just picking on certain guys and not the star players, you know, guys can see right through that stuff. And I think that's the, that's the big thing in NBA coaching is just being able to hold a whole locker room accountable. And I'm not saying bad about any of those guys I've played for, cause they're all great coaches, but it's, it's a huge difference.

When you have that and it just gets guys to come together and play together every night. I talked to Austin Rivers about this last season and it was incredibly revealing in that, you know, I'm always kind of interested in that, that realization right once you're in the league. And here's Rivers, he's a lottery pick, comes back after his first year, he's thinking like, all right, I'm going to start making all star games. You know, and especially with him, because he'd had this massive profile in high school and then at Duke, and then he's, you know, he told me, he's like, and then

I'm like, I'm coming off the bench, you know, you're a lottery pick, huge numbers of Creighton, and then you kind of have to find your role. What was that like for you personally? It was tough, man. I'm not going to lie. You know, I think being in Chicago too, you know, being a lottery pick, you know, I have all these expectations, you know, the fans are expecting so much great things and it doesn't

go the way you want it to right off the bat. And, uh, you know, that's something that, you know, I struggled with early. Um, but you know, the quicker the bat. And, you know, that's something that, you know, I struggled with early. But, you know, the quicker you realize, you know, I'm not the best player on the floor anymore. You know, my dad's not drawn up 15 ice was a game for me. The quicker you get over yourself in the NBA, the better career you're going to have. You know, I think, I just kind of, I think Fred Hoiberg was great for me. He came in that second year. He just kind of let me play freely.

It's not like I was an All-Star or anything, but I showed that I could be a role player in the NBA and that I could find my niche. I think that's the number one thing, is if you're not one or two guys on the team, if you're not an All-Star, you've got to find something that separates yourself from the rest of the league.

And for me, I feel like it's moving without the basketball and shooting threes and just trying an all-star, you got to find something that separates yourself from the rest of the league. For me, I feel like it's moving without the basketball and shooting threes and just trying to put pressure on the defense. I'm not going to get any Isos. I'm not going to get any alley-oop strung up for me. I'm going to be in the corner. I'm going to be slipping out of all screens. I'm going to be the best team defender I can be.

The quicker I realized that, instead of complaining about shots or playing time, just saying less and doing more with my play out there. If I'm gonna, even if I have zero points and I feel like I affected the game by slipping out of a ball screen for Ty Reese or TJ, or who knows, I feel like I did my job. And I think the whole NBA sees that. You know, they can tell when guys are selfish

and they can tell when guys are unselfish. And I think that's something I try to hang my hat on. Yeah, I felt bad for you because, you know, in the beginning, it's like, man, you know, they made the move for you. They take you. We'd all seen in school. And then, you know, tips is not it was too good of a team to be like, all right, here are your 16 shots and you're playing 35 minutes. And because we took you,

we're going to invest all these possessions in you. Right? I mean, that's what happens with a lot of guys on lesser teams. And so when that happens, the unfortunate part, cause yeah, I mean, that team, your rookie, your 150 games, the unfortunate part is, and I'm even guilty of this at times, is you're kind of like, the first couple of years you go, ah, all right. And then it's almost like we have to be reintroduced to your evolution as a player, because then you're like, wait, that guy still like makes all of his shots.

Like, wait, there is now something here. When you look at your shooting splits and then you go, okay, he's trying here, he knows where to be in position all the time. Like there has to be a spot for him somewhere and kind of reassessing like our own expectations, which obviously probably at times for you were really tough. Yeah. You know, and I, and I, I bounced around a little bit earlier in my career. As you said, you know, I played for a lot of teams and you know and it took me a while to figure that out. I owe honestly a lot to Rick Carlisle, who I play for now back in Indy.

I think Dallas was my third or fourth stop in the NBA. I'd been tossed around a little bit and I looked at that. It was just right after the All-Star break. I looked at that. This could be potentially my last chance. I got to go out there and play freely. I got to just kind of say F it and shoot it and just and just play like myself. And Rick gave me a great opportunity. We didn't win many games. It was that Luka draft year. So, you know, there's probably some incentive there down the stretch not to win a ton.

And I just went out there and played. I played free. I shot like 45 or 50% after the break that year. Ended up getting a great deal with Indiana. And I mean, the rest is kind of, that's kind of what helped me stay in this league. What was that little stretch there? So I always try to remind Rick like how thankful I was for him. And, you know, obviously everything worked out for the Mavs they got Luca that summer I'm actually two for two on superstars I got Luca in Dallas and then Wemby in San Antonio so I guess I'm just kind of I'm the good luck charm if teams are looking for that so like I had a

Cooper flag next year some teams gonna pick you up and be like Doug here's the deal you're our first option for six straight. Exactly. Um, I'm the, I'm the go-to guy. Yeah. I looked it up. You were 50% for, for, for Dallas from three. You know, I know it was, it was, it was less than half the season, but all right. So you get to San Antonio and. You know, we're, I think I've asked, I don't know how many different spurs guys,

like different pop questions. What's personal to you about playing for pop? What's something no one else is going to tell me? Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you've heard all the stories about the team dinners and the wine and just the culture. Just unbelievable guy to play for. I remember my first exit meeting with him, I was so nervous. I mean, I played for him for a year and everyone's like, pops like, make sure you see me before you guys leave. And I was just kind of waiting around. I'm like, when is it my turn?

He's talking to all the young guys. And he just comes up to me in the weight room. He's like, I don't need to talk to you. I was like, all right, perfect. He said, you might be one of the worst defenders I've ever coached, but you can really shoot that thing. He's like, you're not as bad as Kerr defensively, but I'll see you next September. That was just a story from Pop. That's just like who he is. He's going to call it how he sees it.

He's going to hold everyone accountable, as I was talking about earlier. He treats Wemby as tough as anyone in the locker room. He'll be calling him out first clip on film, you know, saying we're not shooting the shot, you know, it's just, he just a very authentic guy, very real, genuine guy. It just really enjoyed my two and a half, three years with him. He taught me a lot. When someone says you're a bad defender. What do you do? Maybe is it like, all right, all summer ladder work? Like, okay,

this is what I'm going to do. Like I know that's been the knock on you. You're clearly aware of it. So do you just get to a point like, Hey, I'm just not going to be good enough against certain guys in the NBA and I have to figure out how to at least just be in the right spot. I just, I wonder what that's like when people keep saying it about you. I mean, it is what it is.

You know, I kind of, I know the deal. I know what I'm out there for. I'm definitely not out there to be a defensive stopper. But there's things you can do. Just putting in some effort. Just communicating with your teammates. I feel like as a guy like me, you're going to get picked on. They're going to call you up into ball screens. But you got to be the best show defender. Instead of switching, you got to find a way to make an impact on if you're going to show or just communicating a different way to your teammate. But yeah, I mean, in the summertime, I'm working on it.

I'm working on closeouts. I'm working on ladder drill. But at the end of the day, I know who I am. I know what I'm out there for. I'm out there to make shots and make an impact on the game that way but i think guys like corvair and. You know i just try to sell the six seven white guys but you don't leave me. They became really good defenders later in their career because you know they were able to take charges always be in the right spot And that's something I'm always looking at, trying to become a better defender. Yeah. I mean, if you had thrown Sam Hauser in there, we'd be like, Hey, look out. Sam gets switched into all the time.

And it's always funny, especially like when he was just starting to play this year. And I was like, he actually holds up way better. And then like guys will switch to him twice, like two possessions in a row. They're kind of like, wait, what's going on here? Sam's a sneaky good defender. He's got that Tony Bennett Virginia background. So he knows how to hold his own. Okay. Your first impression, your first time meeting Wemby, being on the floor with him, what was it like when you got him into camp? on the floor with him, what was it like when you got him into camp? I mean, he's, I mean, it's just, it's insane how tall he is. You know, I think when you see him in person, you're like, what the hell, like this guy's a legit a foot taller than me. But I remember we were doing like, hey, we're doing like a yoga session, you know, typical spurs, we're doing a

yoga session on an off day. We're all laying down there. And Vic gets up of all people and he's like, does anyone need a towel or a water or an extra mat or anything? And I'm like, what the hell, this kid. I think that was just a sign to show you like, I mean, he truly just wants to be one of the guys. He wants to be treated the same. You don't see that a lot from rookies, let alone number one picks. I think I was giving some shit to from rookies, let alone number one picks. I think I was giving some shit to our rookies from the previous year. I'm like, wow, this guy's willing to do this. Where was this from any of you guys last year? He's a special guy. He's super humble. He's just constantly reading books on the plane, just very low

key. I think he's a perfect fit for San Antonio, just because that's how Tim was. Um, very low maintenance, um, didn't want the spotlight and, uh, just, just a joy to be around him every day. It's incredible how lucky San Antonio is that you get Duncan where I think there's some Curry similarities there where it's like, okay, if the face of the franchise is, is wired this way, then it just changes everything. Like you can search for it. You can hope to draft it. You're basically, I mean, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're there where it's like, okay, if the face of the franchise is wired this way, then it just changes

everything. Like you can search for it. You can hope to draft it. Basically asking like, okay, which hall of famer can I draft that has the perfect personality to be at the center of this, but to make everybody else feel valued. Right.

It's just, it's really hard, especially because even though basketball is a team sport, like we both know there's a lot of individualism in it and to think that the spurs would get this two decade run. What don't can you go further back with the robinson but then to have one but not aware i could watch all the videos and i don't never talk to him but i watch him play i go there's. videos and I don't never talk to him. But when I watch him play, I go, there's, there may be a lot of that in there with him where it's like, yeah, no, I know what I'm being asked to do. And I know the responsibility of it, but I'm going to do it in a way where I want all of this to work and I want to care about all these things that are the

right things to care about. And it just seems like, you know, beyond the physical stuff, the athleticism, it's like, wait, they really get the perfect person to leave the next however many years is there. It really did i mean it's crazy like the comparison is obviously in the end. Can be in france you know tony be in town all the time manu's pretty much at the facility every single day i mean these guys are. Really around him all the time to help him you you know, kind of guide him through his career. And I think that's huge. And just, I mean, just the way he plays, I mean, it's just so exciting.

I mean, all you have to do is throw it somewhere around the rim and he's going to get it. And he's just, he's an unselfish guy. I think just, I think the sky's the limit. Obviously he hasn't really figured out how to get fouled. You know, I think once he learns to, to draw fouls, I mean, it's even going to take his game to the next level. Um, not that we like watching free throws all night, but I just think it's something that he's gonna,

he's gonna be able to get cause and with his length and swiping through defenders, um, I think it's just gonna add a whole different dimension to his game. Is there a moment this season where when you were playing with him, you felt like somebody really tried to challenge him, try to beat him up a little bit, just kind of want to see what he was made of and it's something you remember. Honestly, um, it felt,

felt like the chat thing is real, you know, the rivalry between them. I feel like they, they really take it personal. I think Wemby really wanted to play well in those games. There was a couple of guys, I think like Andre Drummond or someone tried to get under his skin a little bit and he accepts that. He's the opposite of soft. He's a tough guy. He wants that physicality. He wants that talking. I think that's the difference between him and him and a lot of guys in his position is he welcomes that he really does. And, uh, I think he's really gonna continue to welcome that and he's, he's going to, he's going to get every night cause he's going to everyone's best shot. And, uh, there's only so much you can do with a, with a seven, six guy.

You can't, he's just going to reach over you and dunk it. So you make your way back to the Pacers Carl Olligan, which we've alluded to a bunch of times. Have you ever during your NBA career been able to say like, hey, you guys are thinking about moving me? I'm wondering if there was ever a transaction where you had a moment of influence? I mean, free agency a little bit. Well, sure. Free agency, obviously.

But this year, obviously, being on the spurs, you know, we weren't winning a ton. I knew being on an expiring deal, you know, there'd be an opportunity probably for me to get traded. And that's exactly how it worked out. You know, I think there was a few calls, you know, obviously on trade deadline day. And, you know, I obviously felt very strong about Indiana and I know their interest. And it was one of those deals where they just made it happen. And I was super excited to be back. Obviously, really loved my time in San Antonio. I still talk to those guys all the time. But being on a more veteran team, like the Pacers, back with, you know, Miles, TJ, Tyrese, obviously unbelievable player and Pascal.

But I knew there was a high chance I could get traded and that's exactly what happened. And I'm glad it's back to a place I'm familiar with. Playing with Halliburton, I imagine that, look, there's great pastors in the league, but my favorite thing is the way he sees the game, how he keeps everybody in the position alive. Like, do you have to remind yourself or did you have to maybe the first few games back when your minutes were aligned where it's like, he'll still find me even when I may think I'm out of the play.

Like what is that like playing next to him? It's amazing. Uh, I mean, the thing about Tyrese is, uh, with a lot of guys, um, you have superstars, all-stars, they make the assist for the assist. Tyrese is a guy where he doesn't care about the hockey assist. He's fine making the hockey assist, the pass to a pass, which is the best part about him. You feel like he makes the right read every time.

If I'm open in the corner, but Myles Turner's roll into the rim, he'll hit miles first and miles could swing it to the corner. Like he, he truly just wants to win. He's, he's a, he's a very smart guy. Um, and I've never seen anyone make a pick and roll look so easy. You know, he just makes the right, right read every time. And I was obviously with his ability to shoot the three, it just opens everything else up for the rest of us

Thanks so much for doing this man and enjoy another stint with the Pacers. All right. All right. Thanks my guy. I appreciate it You want details bye I drive a Ferrari 355 cabriolet What's up? I? Have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.

Our email address is like advice, rr at gmail.com. Good mood Thursday. Everybody's in a good mood, I hope. I think it's just because baseball's back. Everybody's got a little smile on their face. Crypto, the crypt. Oh, you're going to the game? mood I hope. I think it's just because baseball's back. Crypto, the crypt. You're going to the game. If Bill's schedule allows, I told him, I'm hoping he has a heart, but we'll see.

I don't think there's too many great NBA games tonight, so I should be okay. There's only two games tonight. I know. We'll see. Got good seats too. So are you trying to go to both at crypto or just the Carolina game? Well, I mean, they're just back to back. Why not? Yeah. I don't know. Milwaukee, New Orleans is a big game,

but Boston and Atlanta at this time is personal. Don't text him about this game at all. I'm begging you. I might text him right now and be like, man, I feel like Boston. This is the turning point of the season with how they respond. I might watch the game twice. Oh God. I hope you get to go, man.

Not only is it a non-hangout, it's an anti-hangout with Tate, is what it's turning into. I had so much fun going to the games in Brooklyn last week. No, I'm not doing this to mess with you. I'm talking about like, it doesn't work out and then this will be hilarious. Yeah, I know. I know.

But like I'll admit to the audience that I do feel a little guilty that I'm not as locked in as I used to be years ago. I still think it's the greatest sporting event in sports. I mean, obviously if you come back and meet with the World Cup, I'm not gonna tell you wrong, but for what we do here, okay, for what I grew up with, I mean, this is my, this has usually always been my favorite thing, but it's just hard for me to justify

when the NBA games are on and be like, all right, one night, I've told myself, like, make one night a week college week so you're still a little into it. So then when I'm not as into it, or I should say it this way, when I know I'm not educated enough to talk about it the way I like to talk about other things, then I just kind of spare everybody that. But do you lock in now for the tournament when you're like, oh, for the draft stuff

coming up, or you'll be like, I'm going to do so much prep anyway. It does not matter if I watch these games because I'm just going to have to deep dive anyway, when you prep for the draft stuff. The weird thing, it's a great question, is that this is usually like from this point on, like I have my list and I put together everything and then, you know, I do it the way I do it, but I also want to watch full live games because there's so much stuff that's happening where it's a player that you're thinking about for the draft. And look, I just really like the draft and it's a lot of work for something that I just kind of enjoy.

But then after last year, like, I didn't really even do anything. So I thought about maybe missing a draft to work on other projects. I've, I've, I've thought about it with myself where I'm like, maybe, maybe this is the draft to miss. But then he's like, so you're just going to have one year where you don't know any of the guys coming in. You don't know anything about them. It's a nice experiment.

That seems weird. Yeah, that would be a cool, but then it's like, I don't want to do episodes where then what am I going to do on the podcast? Not know what I'm talking about with an entire draft class, like not have watched any of them and then have. Five seed, Sam Vassini on and be like, I was direction. I just got done with three minutes of YouTube on this guy. So, you know, wow, his dogs were awesome.

So I, there's no way I'll miss one shot. It's mixed tape is fire, bro. So the dumb thing is that when I go back and watch the college kids, it's like I'm watching the college season on like three times speed, because then I watch all the stuff and cram, and I don't know, like, clearly I like it enough

that I do it, but all right, enough about that, because we need to pivot into a couple of emails that hit us up with, fuck you guys on your vacation takes. There's definitely some follow ups after last week. By the way, vacation is different than personal days. I just want to just off the top with that vacation is PTO, but personal days are different, I think. Right? I would agree. Uh, I'm not going to read all of them because I'm just summarizing the point. And here's what I would say is I might be the worst

person to talk to about this because growing up, I had to work for my dad and there was no paid leave. There's no such thing as I don't feel good today. Like, okay, well guess what? On Friday, the check's going to be a little light. And that's the reality of it. So I grew up with that, which I am thankful. It's one of the things I'm most thankful about my father is that he taught me

what it meant to work hard, to want to work hard, to understand the difference between hard work and not. So that might make me in the corporate world, you know. A little prickly? No, not prickly. I think it might make me the person with the worst perspective on it. Look, there's times back when I look at ESPN when all this stuff, I said yes and yes and yes and yes and yes. In the beginning, I just was like, oh, I'll say yes, and I'm going to stack up all these chips.

And then every time the contract comes up, they're going to be like, that guy really gets it, they didn't care. So sometimes I think the corporate person was like, Hey, I'm going to do my job. I'm going to do well, but I'm taking my time off because it's my time off. Same thing when I travel internationally and I kind of look around and I go, man,

a lot of people not working it seems like, and it's not just seeing people at tourist areas where everybody else is, but you'll talk to people and be like, well, how's this work? Oh, everybody takes this time off and then everybody does this. And then you start to think about us in the States and you're just like, maybe we have it totally wrong. So anybody that was upset about it, I totally get your point, but then we could dig into like the deeper divide of, yeah, of course you're rooting for the shit that helps you and it's not like I own a company and I'm rooting against employees.

I don't like get yours. Like, I don't own anything. So, uh, I don't know if you guys have more to add because I think Sir Rudy and I have similar like get yours. Like I don't own anything. So I don't know if you guys have more to add. Cause I think Saruti and I have similar backgrounds with that. And then Kyle's been on the hustle since day one. So I fucking broke my finger on a scooter coming to a Bill Simmons podcast. And I just did the podcast.

Jeff Chow, the president was like, dude, I think we're going to get sued if you don't go to urgent care right now. But I was like, all right, so who's going to do Bill's podcast? And he was like, all right, you better do it. I'll drive you afterwards. I think I walked out. Are we talking like mangos

at a point in a different direction? How bad? It was pretty gross. And I think there was like blood on my face and Bill was like, what the fuck, man? And I was like, hey, listen, I get it done. I get shit done. I'll just say from,

I kind of have a similar perspective from Ryan's where like my dad, plumbing, heating, air conditioning guy, I would work there on my breaks from college. I'd work there in summers and like, you know, you're talking like 6am to two. And I just like never adjusted that lifestyle. And it was just like a rude awakening, but those guys, like they're just, they're just literally, you want to build differently. Those guys are just built different.

I was not built that way. And then the other thing is like my pain, whenever I would like get sick, You know, okay when I was in elementary school or middle school or even into high school I could be like actively puking and my mom would be like well Just you know, just go to school and like if you don't feel good Go to the nurse by the time you get to school and then you got practice later that day You're like, I might as well just stick it out fucking So I was just kind of like I just never stayed home from school like when I was sick and then I never really got Sick, so part of that is just upbringing like you're right it's I don't you know I'm

sure it's not necessarily the right way to do it but part of that is just kind of whatever your upbringing is. I had to show the puke in the toilet like there was times when I actually flushed and I was like oh my god I'm going to school now holy shit yeah but yeah the only thing I would say is we were talking about like sick days and personal days not vacation I try to make it so that my vacation lines up with the least amount of people having to do my shit. Yeah, but you take off when you take a shot. That's what we were joking about.

I was like, what is a personal day? You just wake up and you say, I'm not feeling today. That was our joke. Nobody was arguing, don't take your vacation days. Right, that's my point. Correct, yeah. Right, I don't even know how many I've ever taken though. A couple of trial logs worth at least, don't you think?

Yeah, but I could have just not done anything. Yeah. I think we put out episodes every time. Oh, that's right. That is technically your work. ABA special, Tulum solo. There's a boxing one in there. All right. Let's read some emails. So this one's hot off the presses.

Kyle sent immediately moving in with a rabbit girl. We have the foremost authority on moving in with a rabbit girl. We have the foremost authority on moving in with rabbit girl. Get out of here. Yeah. So we might not even do it. Get out of there, dude. No.

What did he say? 6-3-185, no lifting stats, even though I do. Not super pumped to share. All right. Player comp is a leaner peril on titch. I need advice. This one specifically for Kyle. Yeah, it is me and my girlfriend and four years are finally moving in together.

Exclamation point. We've taken our time really made. We're made sure we're secure financially and comfortably where we are in a professional lives and we started to look at multiple different options as we go through the process of finding the right spot. There's one thing I'm very picky on and that is the rabbits. Like Kyle, my significant other loves these little things

as in the rabbits. And I need to make sure I'm finding a place that's accommodating for them. I would like to consider myself a very clean and tidy individual who likes their stuff in their space to look nice at all times. Gotta be tough. Yeah, good luck.

Rabbits don't care about that. Uh, as often as possible. My significant other wants to put the rabbits in either the living room or the bedroom. The living room or the bedroom. He read a second time. I would like to have them in a second bedroom along with our office supplies, along with

having extra closet space. They do not smell at all. What. Yeah, you're a liar. She's just great. She's great at it then. She's great at cleaning them. She must be scrubbing every like four days. Can I ask a stupid question? There's no stupid question. It's a stupid problem. So you go right ahead. Yeah. You go right ahead, man. See, when you get rabbits, they just stay in this cage. That's all they, like they don't get out. They just stay in the cage. That's all they like. They don't get out. They just stay in the cage. Like that's their life. I don't know.

My wife is like, they need as much space as possible. So she's got like two X pens clamped together and there's a hutch in there. And, uh, it's fucking ridiculous, buddy. But, um, yeah, I think sometimes you just put them in like a large hamster cage and that's their existence. So they don't get to go, they don't get free Rome for an hour a day. I don't know there's some people my wife is heavy on rabbit Instagram And there's some people they're just like running all over their house. I'm like wow

So you just pray that your cords will be fine or I don't know but some people do that or maybe they have like like yard time I don't know how it works, but ours really don't I'd love to figure out like yard time, I don't know how it works, but ours really don't. I'd love to figure out like the female, the desirable female rabbit ownership ratio, where you'd be like, okay, I'm okay with this, but her and that many rabbits. Like if Blake Lively is like, Hey, I want to make this serious, but I have 1000 rabbits. You still say yes. Yeah.

And that's a lot of rabbits. Yeah, I mean, you'd need like a proper for that. Yeah, like who, who is the person in the, in the number of rabbits that you'd be like, no. I think five's a cut off for me. What are you, you're at five, right? Hey, I think that's a cut off for me. I think that would ask us a couple of questions.

How old are the rabbits? Right? Hold on, let me finish the email quick and then Kyle, you're just gonna cook here. All right, she takes great care of them. However, they get hair all over. I'd like to stay away from the possibility of having any hay and pellets in our publicly shared space,

hence the extra room. Kyle, how do you store your rabbits? Are they all in one space? Are they bonded? Do you like them? Her rabbits are not friends. In fact, they are mortal enemies. Putting them in one shared space together result in utter disaster and a lot of blood

as we have seen when they have been let out in shared space at the same time. Any advice is well appreciated. By the way, go Cavs. All right, Kyle, take the floor. Okay. They're stored in my bedroom. I'm not happy about this. I don't spend a ton of time in there.

And she's, we've regimented it. We had a little issue early on, but now she's in there like every about this. I don't spend a ton of time in there. And she's, we've regimented it. We had a little issue early on, but now she's in there like every three days where I don't, if I start, if I catch a whiff, I'm like, all right, it's time to get in there. And she's, she's acquiesced to that. So that's very nice. But yeah, every once in a while I'll be like, all right, today's the day, got to get in there. And I think it matters. Some rabbits will go in the litter box, some won't. And I don't know how you train rabbits. I don't know if there's a guide out there. I'm not interested in trying, but-

Life advice are at gmail.com if you know. You can help us. I think you gotta ask yourself how old are these rabbits? I know for a fact they live between five and 10 years. So we're at the half life of my rabbits, thank God. Do you have like a Christmas December? Well, it's because if there was a day, you guarantee I would. This way, she didn't get them all at the same time.

Did she? She had one and it was pregnant. Oh man. Did she know that? And it was, must've got pregnant that day. Cause with the rabbit, the rabbit pregnancies are one month. And I was back in New York visiting summer. And it was like a month to the day that we got her and then she calls me Fred

She's like, oh my god, she's having babies And I was I just started laughing so I Yeah, so Free rabbits. I mean I would I would definitely throw them in that office I would definitely throw them in the office. I'd get like some fucking HEPA air filters and stuff like that. Like it's It's not gonna be good. And I think you gotta ask yourself how much, I mean, obviously you love her enough

that you're considering this, but you gotta keep them separate if you can. I mean, I would have them in this office if I didn't have to be in here so much, but I don't. I would find a place with a, like, can you find a four bedroom? I don't know. And also, I mean, if I were you, I'm so sick of this,

I would maybe put them together and just let them go like betta fish style, but that's me. Maybe I don't know. And also, I mean, if I were you, I'm so sick of this. I would maybe put them together and just let them go like beta fish style. But that's me. I'm maybe I'm just joking, but I've had these rabbits so long. I make terrible jokes about them now and I just don't care. Kyle's doing rabbit fight club in the guest bedroom. I don't know what happened. They were fine.

Yeah. I don't know. It's a lot of rabbits, man. So you basically, you have no solution. It's just going to suck. Countdown and you know, every once in a while I think about like, is there really like any lettuce that like I could accidentally give them that maybe they wouldn't react well to, but I don't know. I don't think I'm that bad of a person, but I do play these crazy games in my

head. Kyle, have you talked about, you said it's the half life once. Have you guys talked about like, is she someone that wants rabbits for life? Like you're just gonna know rabbits or you need that she understands that this was a crazy situation and We had a pact where it was like I was like well, we can't keep these rabbits and she was like, okay I'll look into rehoming them and they're like well bunnyworld.com

Says that you need to keep them with their mom for like six to eight weeks so that they don't die and I was like Doing the math. I'm like she's not getting rid of these after six to eight weeks. There's no way. There's no way. And, uh, we've had fights about it. She's like, all right, I'll just take the rabbits and go live in a cardboard box. It's like, no, you won't. But, um, it's just like, she's that, she's that on that hill, ready to

die that I don't really know what to do. So, so it's peak confrontation. She said, I'll go live in the car with my rabbits. Yes. Insane behavior. Big animal lover that one. Man. Yeah.

Well, that's talking rabbits. Yeah. Much to add. Who? Good luck. I'm like getting sweaty over here. Just talking about this shit. Oh my God.

All right. Um, follow up from a government employee specific to our guy, but not about the sick days, personal days, AKA vacation dispute. Um, should we read this? All right. We're going to read it. As a government employee listening to my fellow public servant talk about getting demoted, my instinct is that they want him to quit. Firing people within government HR systems can be a nightmare with

a higher performance improvement plans, three strike policies, et cetera. It's much easier for management to make decisions that cause people to quit to avoid the headache of a possibility of wrongful termination, of a wrongful termination suit, he said. All right. So either budget reasons or someone just doesn't like our boy, they want to have him call it quits on his own. Okay. I thought that was, yeah. It's a good point. Unskilled labor jobs like that, you'd see it happen to a lot of people

all the time. It's just like, sometimes you'd have a shitty manager, like, yeah, I'm just going to give him like 12 hours a week until he gets the message. Like, and between Modell's melting pot, um, the, uh, summer camp I worked at, I seen it happen to everyone. So I guess, I guess it's kind of full. What was the phase out like at Modell's? It was just like, you know, terrible shifts, less, less hours.

Like, all right, you're 16 hours a week at Modell's. It's like, what is that going to get me? Uh, again, not me, of course, manager sports. Happen. I want you on like, yeah, you were on manager. Uh, no, I'm saying it wasn't me, but I'm just saying I see people like, yeah. I was, I knew some of the managers there, you know, kind of well.

And they would tell me like, yeah, this guy's just, we're phasing them out till he gets the fucking message. Not cool. One of the best shifts at Modell's versus the worst one. I thought it was the opening shift, but I had to do that because I had to hop the bus on Route 9 and go to Melton Pot to work the closing shift. So I don't know. It was a really tough time. Work hard though. Okay. This is a simple one. I don't have an answer to it.

So maybe we can just workshop it a bit. bit, been a fan since SVP and Rosillo 5'10", 176 in my prime. I was a very average athlete with an NBA comp to a high school or a high motor, uh, John Starks going against Jordan. The nineties I would get destroyed, but I gave it hell. All right. I think I got that 38 year old married guy with two kids and generally have the same friends since college. Have the few outliers sprinkled in around here and there, as you know, it's hard to make friends as you get older.

All the doctors and surgeons have gotten out of school at this age. So I'm noticing my doctors are around my and there. As you know, it's hard to make friends as you get older. All the doctors and surgeons have gotten out of school at this age. So I'm noticing my doctors are around my age now. I have a primary care doctor. I go to once a year or so we really hit it off talking March Madness, our kids, Jackson Hole, Montana vacations, making jokes. He's a really cool guy. And I feel like we could drink some beer and watch some football sometime. The only problem is it's really weird asking my

doctor on a man hangout session. Do people do this? It seems as if I just forgot about this opportunity for a new core guy. Correct? How do you approach a situation like this? Uh, and I'm not sure if this is relevant information, but yes, he's performed a physical

on me years ago where I had to cough. I wonder if that's a deal breaker. It's the first thing I thought of. Yeah, me yes, he's performed a physical on me years ago where I had to cough. I wonder if that's a deal breaker. It's the first thing I thought of. Yeah, me too. Me too. The first thing I thought of, I don't know. I mean, no, none of us are doctors obviously. So I just don't know if that's doctor protocol.

Like, okay, I'm 40, you're 40. We seem to get along, but like, I'm going to have to touch some stuff. And do you want to golf later today? Yeah, that's the one thing I mean why did you I'm sure Go ahead. He's got a he said he's got friends like, you know, obviously they a few strays here in college Yeah, why do you want this friend so bad? I don't sound awesome. Doesn't he sounds awesome. That's the thing. Like this is a real dilemma, buddy. It really is.

I mean, I don't. I mean, if you're, if you're responsible and you get physicals every year, he's going to grab your balls every single year. And as you get older, he's going to have to do other stuff. Maybe you switch doctors. Maybe that's the move. I went for a thing and I knew, I, I knew the guy knew who I was. And that was like, great.

What'd you say? I had to go to a thing and I knew the guy knew who I was. That was like great. What did you say? I had to go to a thing and I knew the guy immediately knew who I was. I was like, all right. That might even be worse. Yeah. Yeah. If he asked me to hang out. Just to make sure.

I'm like, I can't. Yeah. What if he asked me to hang out? What's he telling his buddies? Afterwards, like what are you doing? He'll be as a horse this guy. He really does lift. I think he's on shit but the blood test came back clean. I don't know if you've had this doctor for a long time, maybe you could try it and then switch doctors. But I don't know. I think I would just leave everything as it is. And like, I say, give

it a shot. Who cares? Yeah, sure. What you, what you could do is what Kyle's saying is you just say, Hey, I got to get a new doctor. Like something's happening, whatever. But then that's your excuse to be like, I really liked our time together. You want to hang out, let's grab a beer. I don't want to. My insurance switched. I gotta get, I gotta switch doctors. Do you want to come to Singon? The only thing is he probably knows the lie though. So you have to make the lie, how like, what would be a good lie?

He would know your insurance didn't switch. Well, my insurance is switching at the end of the year. So I gotta, and just look up what they don't take and be like, oh, I'm on what's, I'm like, oh. Here's the thing, like, why are you dumping them though? Like we don't know if it's weird to hang out with your doctor. It is, all right, so you feel that, I don't know. Well, no, well, so my dentist is my brother-in-law,

so, you know, I know it's not quite the same, but like I have to hang out with him a good amount. Definitely. And you know, but he's done a lot of things in and around the mouth, so like, it's a little bit weird, but it's not that I don't know, you just kind of get over it. Wow, close to them. So like, I think you got to get the first few.

Not even close. I would hang out my cardiologist, I would hang out with a dentist, I would hang out with my podiatrist if I had one. But I think if once a year, we've got an appointment where he's like, drop them. I don't know, I think that might be a little one. But I think if once a year we've got an appointment where he's like, drop them. I don't know. I think that might be a little strange. And I think everyone's.

We need a doctor to email. That's what we need is we need a doctor to email and tell us how you handle. Cause you know, it obviously depends on the coolness of the doctor. If the doctor doesn't have a ton of friends, it was kind of a dork. Then he's going to be like, Hey, these guys

are awesome and he's not going to care about this. This is all about the dynamic. And it really has nothing to do with the doctor patient relationship. It's a dude on dude relationship dynamic here. Is this guy, uh, an upgrade? Like, is he replacing? Well, that's not even that he's replacing a

friend, but like if he's a cool doctor, you know, about 40 good looking guy. Got a boat maybe. Yeah, he's got a boat, maybe a couple of jet skis off the back. He's really dealing. He's doing well. So then you're like, hey, this is my doctor friend.

We shouldn't even call him Steve anymore. This feels like we need a different go-to name. Steve-o. Yeah. My doctor buddy Topher. So I don't know. I'd say give it a shot. And then if he gives you the soft no where it's like, Oh, I'm just so busy or whatever. Like if you've been around long enough, you kind of know even whether it's women or men. Hey, do you want to do something? Yeah. I wonder what his deal is. Like does he have kids? Is he married?

Is he looking to get out of the house? Like can you do like, is there some recon you can do to like figure out what, this is almost like dating. Like what are his interests? Like come in prepared. Know what he wants to do. Right, yeah do a little recon. I love that Saruti. Find out his interest. Be like hey sounds like you already know a ton of them. I too like to ask him. Just ask him if you don't care about it. And of course, like the people on the medical side were listening to this and being like, you guys are idiots which yes, we are. But it's not about what the guy, it's not about what

the doctor thinks, it's about what the guy's gonna feel. It's about like about what our email is gonna feel. But if they're both okay with the examination, you know, element that's slightly different than the relationship you have with every one of your other friends, then no one should care about any of it. It's just that I would think there's probably one person that would go, I don't know, but if our guy's the guy, the patient,

if he's like, I don't care, doesn't matter, this guy's awesome, I want to see his boat, then ask him. He's probably more mature than the three of us. Yeah. Probably. What's that note going to be like though? Hold on. What's that note going to be like though?

Cause then is it awkward the next appointment you go in? It's like, Hey, you didn't return my call. Like we're trying to hang out with you. It's like, yeah, you know, tied up. No, you need to let a conference conferences. Yeah. You need to not follow up. You need to completely let it go.

Like, okay, this guy didn't want to hang out like, but I like his work. Nice touch. I remember my father used to do that. You know what some guy want to become his buddy while he's building the deck. Invite him to something. And if I was like, that seems all right. He's like, I probably want some fucking discount or something. Keep the guard up, man.

Yeah. Cedar. You kidding me? Cherry trim. No thanks. Cherry would not be on the outside. Obviously you guys know that. Okay.

Uh, that'll do it for today's pod. Thanks to Mike. Thanks to Surti. Thanks to Kyle. Uh, our YouTube channel is up. This will be on it, I believe some of these as well. So please subscribe to that and also the Brian Russo podcast, Ringer Spotify. the the

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