The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Jason Witten | Dual Threat with Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: April 3, 2019

Russillo talks with 11-time Pro Bowl tight end and former 'Monday Night Football' analyst Jason Witten about his season in the 'MNF' booth and his departure to play football again with the Dallas Cowboys. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

what's up everyone welcome back to another edition of dual threat we have our quarterback our backup qb stories that will continue but this week a different story jason whitton off the field into the booth back to the field i've been looking forward to doing this for a while. I've been talking to his people. They said, all right, we want Witten to go on with you. We think you'll get it. And I want you to hear this because this guy got destroyed all season long, calling games, and I just want to know where his head was at with all that stuff.

So make sure you subscribe, rate and review to Dual Threat here as part of the Ringer podcast. Just taped a long one with Bill, a lot of hoops there, even some college stuff. So let's start with a little pre-roll for you. That's what they call it in the industry. That's the biz term right there. In order to support our show, we'll need the help of some great advertisers. And in order to find great advertisers, we need to learn a little bit more about you.

So please go to podsurvey.com slash dual and take a quick anonymous survey that will help us get to know you a little better. That way we can show advertisers just how great our listeners are. Plus, once you've completed the survey, you can choose to enter for a chance to win $100 Amazon gift card terms and conditions apply. Again, that's podsurvey.com slash dual, D-U-A-L. Thanks for your help. And look, it is kind of helpful if you guys just do it, so can you please do it? All right, there you go. That's pretty much all we need to know. Jason Witten, the decade plus in the league,

one year in the booth, and now back with the Cowboys. We'll ask a Cowboys question in there as well. I'm really happy, man, that you wanted to spend some time here and this is a football podcast, but it's also unique for me because I'm with ESPN.

I've been there a long time. I don't know the levels to what you've gone through the last year, but now you're back playing for the Cowboys. So let's go back a year. How did it start where you decided, okay, I'm ready to walk away from football, but I'm also interested in a gig with ESPN?

Well, I think it happened, you know, almost at the same time. I mean, I was preparing for my 16th year, started, you know, training a little bit. We didn't make the playoffs, so I was obviously anxious to get back at it. That was kind of one of my things that I always did really well was start the offseason, start evaluating what I did well, what I need to improve on. And, you know, look, I knew I was 15 years in, I was coming down the home stretch. I was aware of that. And, you know, Monday night football comes calling. And I think when you go through that, I met with them, really liked the people, thought I could win with them. And, you know, it's a Monday night football chair,

who wouldn't be interested in that position. And, you know, I talked to Jerry about it a few times and went to Bristol and met with some of the team and, you know, really liked the guys I could work with and thought, you know what, whenever you have those type of decisions, you know, there's only a handful of those jobs. So they're precious. And you're aware of that. I saw Tony kind of walk into the CBS chair the year prior, and I just thought long and hard about it and thought, man,

as I come down the home stretch, who wouldn't consider the opportunity to go be a lead analyst for Monday night football? And so put a lot of time and energy into it. And, you know, I think you try to make the decisions you can in real time the best way you know how. And that's kind of how I came into it and opportunity to stay around the game and that chair. Um, I just thought it was best at the time. So I'm going to share with you kind of like how I

saw some of this stuff as an employee, where I've talked with executives that make these decisions and then they go, yeah, okay, that's fine. Thanks for your input, but you don't know what you're talking about because I think some people would go, and I've said this to people that make decisions, at ESPN, we're so excited about the biggest name that just retired that we give them the highest priority spots. And I don't really know that that makes any sense. I don't know that there's a lot of industries that way where it's the least, not qualified, but the least experienced get the highest profile gigs. And that was certainly the case for you and Monday Night Football.

But then the executive would be like, okay, yeah, I get it. Like, I'm not an idiot. It'd be great if we could give a Jason Witten five years of seasoning. But we're talking to players now that have so much money in the bank, have all these other opportunities that we have to entice them. So it sounds like if it weren't for Monday Night Football, Jason, you may have played another year. Is that fair?

Yeah, that's fair to say. I mean, I think, you know, I obviously knew where I was at in my career, but, and I embraced the fact of going into the big stage. I knew what Monday Night Football was all about. It's ESPN. It's the only night, only game on television that evening. And I knew it wasn't going to be easy. I also knew kind of my football IQ, how I saw the game.

That was always a strength of mine. And, you know, I was coachable. I thought I had a good team around me that, you know, producers and directors that could work with me. And they worked with a lot of different guys that they could kind of build on my strength. And, you know, I just dove in headfirst. And honestly, I really enjoyed that process of learning television. You know, I had all spring to kind of, we had some practice reps,

learning camera angles to calling some scripted games, you know, from the previous year. And I really enjoyed going with that team. And on the outset, I think I should just say ESPN was first class to me and the tools that they gave me and kind of diving into that. I enjoyed it. I was a fan of football. I loved the game. I loved the X's and O's, communicating that.

I felt like I had some insight coming right off the field that I could share, much like what Tony's had success doing with. You go about it and you jump in it. So I didn't really – I almost embraced the opportunity of, yeah, I'm a rookie and I'm just getting into television. There's a lot that I don't know. Certainly that's the case. But I almost embraced, like, throw me into the deep end.

I like going in the deep end. And certainly playing for the Cowboys for 15 years, that was the case. And there's going to be critics. I didn't really worry about that. And along the way, I thought as the season went on, we really started to improve. I improved to a point where I was like,

okay, I can be good at this. And yeah, there's criticism. Yeah, it's real. It's out there. You certainly are not immune to it, but I feel like I could handle that. Yeah, let's get let's get into that. Cause you got crushed and it, and I say that as somebody that knows what it's like to, I get done with a show. I don't have a good show.

I'm the dumbest person ever. I'm an idiot. I used to listen to you. I'll never listen to you again. And you know, you can build up a tolerance to it. And I know that I have, but some days it could just be the wrong day. But here, like that was my radio show. This is Monday Night Football. You're this new shiny toy. You're a Cowboys legend. You're a Hall of Famer or, you know, you're going to be. And you're getting destroyed by the internet. What was that like? well I think first off I mean nobody's immune to it you know regardless of how much mental toughness you have or you know that was one of the things I kind of prided myself on as a player 15 years is you know I can handle the big stage but you know and it's funny because the first thing that I did my first assignment that I did with with ESPN was I wrote a column on Twitter and I talked about how it's kind of poisoned to NFL. And I was referencing more like I've seen players check it at halftime. I've seen how it's always

evolved. And it's happened throughout my career. I mean, think of training camp, you know, you break practice. You didn't have a great practice. Well, guess what? Everybody knows about it. You know, Dak Prescott went nine for 10. He had a great day in seven on seven session. It wasn't like that 10 years ago. And so constantly it's put out there whether you want it to be or not as a player. And so I was referencing as a player, I knew the Twitter narrative and, and how that would kind of roll over. And certainly I, you know, I took a beating. I'm aware of it. And to say like, Hey, you didn't pay attention to it. Bullshit. Everybody, everybody paid attention. Everybody's aware. And if you're not, you're lying to me, you know, that to say that you're just

immune to it, or, you know, probably everybody outside of Bill Belichick and a handful of others, you know, that, that just don't really care what's being said, but I really always try to keep my head above the spectator line. Am I improving? Trust the people that, you know, are in place that can help me. And I tell you what, Ryan, that the toughest part was you finished calling a game and, you know, whether you're flying back that night or going back to the hotel, I would check my text. And it was like, I just, you know, they found out I was sick or something or somebody died in my family. Hey, praying for you.

Keep your head up. Don't worry about it. I'm like, my gosh, you know, it wasn't that bad. You know, I said, you know, pull a rabbit out of his head instead of a rabbit out of his hat. You know, I mean, you guys knew what I meant, right? And I screwed up. But it wasn't the end of the world, in my opinion. And so I really, I wasn't immune to it.

It sucked going through it at times. Once the narrative kind of got formed, I knew that it was going to be a long-game approach. And I thought as the season unfolded, when Boog moved up to the booth, I thought we had some two or three really good games, and we were starting to kind of hit our stride. And I didn't make this decision off of the noise, you know, and the criticism that wasn't why I made this decision. It was really just, I want to play, you know, the scoreboard matters and I want to be

a part of that. And I think everybody, you know, that that's in these chairs or has it been fortunate enough to be in this, this chair as an analyst on, on a big stage, whether it's football, or has it been fortunate enough to be in this chair as an analyst on a big stage, whether it's football, basketball, it didn't really matter, baseball. You all come to that conclusion of how you get there in different ways. You know, I mean, think of Troy. He had the concussions. Their team wasn't really good.

He had won those Super Bowls. They were almost rebuilding. He was beat up. He made that decision. And he's thrived on Fox. You know, he's done that longer than he played. Tony, same thing. He had the back injuries. Prescott comes in, plays well. And Tony certainly could have kept playing, but it was probably going to be somewhere else. You know, does he really want to go somewhere else and play? For me, it wasn't any of that. It was just kind of like,

Hey, you know, I always consider myself as one of those types of guys that, Hey, I'm going to die on the vine. I'm going to play football. Cause I love it. You know, and my, my secrets were finding out a ways to move the chain. That wasn't a four, four guy or 14 foot broad jump guy. I wasn't going to wow you with those things, but I was going to get open. I was going to make first downs and I was going to contribute to my team as a leader and a captain. And so I think when this all kind of presented itself, my mindset was just like, well, maybe it is smart to get off the train before they kick you off, you know, and to walk into this chair. Are you kidding me? You got to really consider it. And I don't know that anybody would have questioned that a year ago. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, that's the thing is,

is it keeps, as you you're talking and I'm in agreement, cause I, I like the thing I understand the industry, even if you're 50, 50 and going, man, I still kind of want to play, but it's Monday night football. You know, as you've been talking to me here in just these minutes, it's, it constantly gets back to it. Wait a minute. It's Monday night football. It's Monday night football. There's all sorts of things that I want to do, but I know that there's like one or two things where I just stop everything I was doing. And I would go, you know, people would be like, wait a minute. I thought you moved to LA to do this or do that. And I'm like, well, yeah, but whatever this opportunity came up, like everything's on the back burner now. So I, I kind of get that. I want to get to the Romo thing there though, because I think Romo helped you get the gig.

But then I think once you started and you weren't Romo, it, it hurt you more. Whereas if there were no Tony, maybe you don't get the Monday night football booth, but if there were no Tony, I don't know. Like,

and you, you also said there too, where I thought it was really revealing and very on point is that once it started snowballing, Oh, Jason Witten sucks, Jason Witten sucks. Then everybody was in on the joke and it became this weekly appointment

thing where everybody wanted to rip you on Monday. Yeah, I mean, I think a couple of things. One, you know, it was different in that, you know, we were, even though Tessa Torr had been doing television for 20 years and had a great voice, we were all new to Monday Night Football. You know, Booger and Joe and I, all three of us, which was different than probably what Tony walked into. Not that one was, you know, harder or easier than the other. No, no, but it's a good point. Right. Right. I mean, it's Nance. And then he did, he crushed it, man. And he did something that I think we had never seen before. And that was, he was telling us the answer to the test before we saw it. And as a fan,

we all love that. You know, he's telling us what's going to happen on this play. And then it, sure enough, it would happen. And, you know, then you love that. You know, he's telling us what's going to happen on this play. And then, sure enough, it would happen. And, you know, then you come to the point of, well, do you want to play that game? Because, you know, some of the things that I know as a football player coming right off the field and playing tight end, kind of seeing it a little bit like a quarterback, but then also seeing the other parts of it as a route runner and coverage and the inside part of the game of running game, you know, maybe not completely like a quarterback does, but I felt like that always kind of came easy to me.

You know, how do you go about it? And look, Tony was unbelievable. He is unbelievable at it. And certainly I believe that he helped me get that, right? I mean, he had so much success. It's like, why not? I mean, let's so much success. It's like, why not? I mean, let's go with another guy. But, you know, I think that when you pull back on it, it got to that point where I think narratives and opinions get formed and it's hard to break that with anything

in these industries, right? I mean, you've experienced that in your career. And at that point, I didn't really panic. I just as I said, no, I wasn't immune to it. You know, it kind of sucked going through it because, you know, you're struggling in front of 20 million people at times. But but the hardest part was for me, it was like, OK, you have to take a long game approach here. Are we improving? And you're going to win it over the long haul. You're going to win it over time as you do it. And, you know, I use some tools where you kind of make fun of yourself. You jump back in it.

You own it. I do think that, you know, authenticity always wins. Just be real. And I thought we started to kind of hit a stride there towards the end. But I would, you know, be remiss if I didn't say that. It really had nothing to do with my decision to leave. I think we were headed in the right direction. Okay, so if you had crushed it this year and everybody liked you and they go,

hey, Witten's the best, and you realize, okay, ESPN, as you say, long game, this could be a 10-plus year kind of gig, and that kind of TV money starts getting insane. Do you, you think you still would have come back and played this year, no matter what? I don't know. You know, I mean, I think that's a good question. I think the biggest thing that I probably underestimated when I went through this decision was because I knew I was getting towards the end of my career and, and the opportunity to go be around the game. I knew those didn't grow on trees. And when I talked to Jerry about that, I mean, that's what he said.

I mean, hey, look, we're a better team with you on our football team, but my goodness, Jason, this is an opportunity for a long time, potentially, down the road. And Jerry was great. Can I jump in real quick? Because there's a theory with Jerry that he likes having all you guys on all these prime spots with Troy and Tony and now you. Is this him really behind the scenes moving all these pieces around or are we just kind of too in love with these conspiracy theories? I think really, if you know Jerry, I mean, first off, I mean, he's extremely loyal and he genuinely wants his guys to be successful. He takes pride in seeing his guys come through his system, his program, mentoring them over the years.

I mean, the guy's got so much wisdom. He's the smartest guy I've ever met. You know, he's got charisma off the charts. I mean, he's like Brad Pitt, you know, I mean, his charisma is unbelievable. Um, but I really felt like he was able to kind of unemotionally pull back where I was kind of emotional on the whole thing, you know, and he's able to kind of unemotionally pull back and talk it through and offer some unbelievable advice. And yeah, it probably doesn't hurt the Cowboys that he has three guys on the big stage. But more than that, without a question, I think he likes to see his guys successful. He likes to have an impact on their career and see them go on and have success. And I genuinely, I couldn't have done it without him.

I really, you know, I leaned on him hard during that process. And, you know, every owner's not doing that. And I was grateful for that and his ability to pull back and make that process. And, you know, that's every owner's not doing that. And I was grateful for that and his ability to pull back and, um, make that decision. But, but really I think as it unfolded, you know, you're kind of, you're, you're scripting it of, okay, this is a perfect transition. And I probably didn't think through the fact of how much of a competitor I still was, you know, and how much I, the score really mattered to me. And I remember calling my first game, and we called Oakland and the Rams, and the Rams ended up, you know, as the return of Chucky and John Gruden.

It was electric. It was awesome, you know. And I studied. I studied my balls off, man. I mean, I went through it. And, you know, I was watching 2006 tape of Tampa Bay and the offense that John was running. And of course, Sean McVay and what he, you know, the success that he was having. And I was ready.

You know, I enjoyed that part of the preparation that goes into it, that a lot of players, when they enter television and you know this, Ryan, they don't, they don't enjoy the work. And it's an art, man. It's a lot of work. You liked it. There wasn't like, okay, I got the money. Cause some guys I've worked with, it's like, okay,'s a lot of work you like the work there wasn't like okay i got the money because some guys i've worked with it's like okay cool i get the title i get the paycheck i get out of the house a couple weekends a month oh wait you want me to like study yeah so that didn't bother and i i really enjoyed that part of it you know and our producer jay rothman he was fantastic i feel like he's great he was he was a football guy. You know, in the last nine years, he was working with John Gruden, which, I mean, nobody watches more tape than him as an announcer.

You know, I mean, he was watching all that tape. And so he shared with me some of that stuff. And I enjoyed the week, you know, of studying the tape, seeing how the game was going to play out. You know, a lot of that stuff never made television, just because you're deep in the weeds with football that nobody really cares about. But it did help with your preparation. I loved working on that throughout the week as I kind of got my schedule intact.

And I really did. I enjoyed that part of it. But I think what I probably didn't think through well enough during that process, just during that first game, we finished. And the Rams kind of started to take away in the fourth quarter. And I remember they would always kind of tell me their notes the next day or a couple days after the team would kind of send over how they thought the game went. They were great with that. Yeah, so what did they say as things, you know, seemed to snowball a little bit? Like, how were the people coaching you week to week talking to you? Because I can imagine, like, part of it's trying to get you better, but also dealing with the fragileness of, like, everybody's different. We don't want to freak this guy out either because, like, it's bad enough when social media is against you, but we've got to make sure we prop our guys up here.

How did they handle that? They did a really good job of it. You know, honestly, look, I think as a player, let me just say this. As a player, you know, regardless of what the criticism is when you play and, you know, you drop a pass that's going to score a game-winning touchdown, you're going to get criticized. But I've always felt like coaches and decision makers, they never really allowed the

outside noise to affect a decision they made on a play call or who's playing or where you're at in a game. And I didn't really know in television because, you know, I mean, let's be honest. I mean, the narrative does kind of decide which way you go as an organization. So you have to listen to that as far as I felt like the bosses needed to keep up with it. And certainly I'm sure they did. And, you know, they couldn't have been pleased with some of that feedback they were getting. But I thought they did a really good job kind of staying above that as well.

You know, like, hey, we support you. We're with you. You did a good job, you know, and they point out the things that you did good. And, you know, I always I told him on the outset, like, hey, look, man, I got a lot of confidence, and I have no problem being critical of myself. And so I want you to be critical of me. Like, don't beat around, you know. And I heard when I got into television, like, hey, it's different than playing.

You don't get a lot of feedback and, you know, no news is good news and all that kind of stuff. And that was not the case for me. They would send me notes. They would tell me, hey, this is good news and all that kind of stuff. And that was not the case for me. They would send me notes. They would tell me, hey, this is good. I need to clean up this. You know, be tighter here. You know, we didn't really understand what you were saying when you gave that example, you know, on that replay.

Wait a minute. They would break down something on a replay that they didn't understand? That's good. Honestly, Jason, this is rare. It actually is rare that you would get this. Now, granted, it's Monday night, and you're in this really important role. So I think for that kind of production, this is rare. It actually is rare that you would get this much. Now, granted, it's Monday night and you're in this really important role. So I think for that kind of production, this is more common, but I would tell you firsthand of being around this industry for a long time. A lot of times it's just like, Hey, we'll throw you guys out there. And the guys that figure it out,

get a second contract and the guys that don't, you're gone. Right. Yeah. But they were man. And I would send them my notes. I'd say, Hey, look, this is how I looked at the game. Here's the things I didn't thought I did well. Here's where I didn't do so well and need to clean up. Could we have got to this camera angle on that replay? I think that would have helped me make my point. You know what? I did a bad job in talking to that.

I was talking about something when the replay was completely different. The viewers were seeing one thing, and I was talking about another, so they were, they were fantastic from, from that approach of getting better. And so I thought the bosses were always very supportive, you know, when, when, you know, kind of shit hit the fan, so to speak, you know, and, and narrative started to get formed and we began to get crushed. But I think what I probably didn't understand was in that fourth quarter,

that game that I was talking about, the Rams and Raiders, the Rams started to kind of pull away. And at the end of the game, or maybe it was like a TV timeout right before the end, somebody said to me on the talk back there, like, hey, man, keep your energy up. The game's not over until we get off the air. And I kind of felt it because you're up two scores, three scores at the end of the fourth, right? I mean, you're in four-minute offense as a player, as a coach.

Don't screw anything up down the stretch. And I kind of realized at the end of that game, it's different, you know, because it's over. And you hope you brought the viewer a great game. And I really missed that experience of, did we win or did we lose? What did I contribute to the game? You know, how did it play out? And then going back and doing it again the next week. And so that was something that I guess when I think back on it,

I probably, you know, didn't give myself enough credit or think through of like, hey, you really, you need that. And, hey, when you make a decision to come back, how much is left? People are going to question that. I get that. But I got a lot of confidence in my ability that I think that I can come back and contribute. And however that plays out, we'll see.

But you try to make those decisions in real time, just like I did a year ago, and that's what I did. And now I'm kind of going all in as a player. Hey, we'll get back to Jason Witten, and I want to ask him at the end of this thing what he thinks about the Cowboys and the Cowboys discussion, what bothers him the most about this team, doubts about his coach and quarterback.

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That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Ryan, R-Y-E-N. ZipRecruiter.com slash Ryan. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Back on that thread for just a second, though. Yeah, sometimes people don't, like, hey, Brian? No, Ryan. That's totally understandable. Ryan with an E.

Oh, I bet you people get that wrong all the time. Yeah, they do. And you know what? I don't care if people get it wrong. I expect, I accept, I don't worry about it. I don't start a tweet. Oh, my whole life, everyone assumes my name's with an A. You want to know why?

Because that's the way you're supposed to spell it. My parents did something a little different. They're unique name parents. You know? I'm a child of the 60s, even though I'm not. And I drove cross-country in a VW bus at like one or two. I don't know. I don't have a ton of memories.

It wasn't because of drinking. It was because I was one or two. But I don't know. I don't have a ton of memories. It wasn't because of drinking. It was because I was one or two. But I don't care. I expect people to get my name wrong. So if you have a slightly different pronunciation or you're missing, I used to have a roommate named John. He was a J-O-N.

He'd lose his shit when there was an H in anything that was addressed to him. Oh, come on. And you just go, John, lighten up. Of all the shit, all the battles that you're going to have to fight the rest

of your life, give up on that one, okay? Just concede. God. It just kept going. I kept reading it because I was like, alright, I hate reading this stuff now. Alright, I know you guys want to get back to Jason Witt,

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And get 10% off. That's promo code DUAL10OFF for 10% off. Great after a heavy day. Was there ever a moment during the season where it got so bad and doing Monday Night Football where you did look out at the field and you thought to yourself, or maybe you were on a flight home, or maybe you were in the car service to the airport, where you're like, fuck this, I just want to play again.

No, I didn't have that. You know, I did have this feeling. I felt like we called the game of the year. We had the Rams and the Chiefs. It was supposed to be in Mexico City, and it got moved to L.A., and I hadn't been in a Monday night football game there in 30-some years, and it Chiefs. Yeah, that was awesome. It was supposed to be in Mexico City, and it got moved to L.A., and I hadn't been in a Monday night football game there in 30-some years, and it was electric. It was a high-scoring game.

Both teams scored over 50 points. I mean, it was just a football dream, I think, as a fan, I think, to watch those type of offenses. It was like college football hit primetime. Two of the best teams, both undefeated. And at the end of that game, I thought that was one of our best games. I screwed up the very end. I thought I had a really clean game.

What was the screw up? At the very end, Ebucam was the guy's name, Samson Ebucam, and he got a sack, and I just couldn't spit it out. I mean, I said it like seven times. I don't know if you saw it,

but it was a key time of the game, and I bet I said it like four or five times. And then finally Tessa Torres, like number 50, Samson, Ebby cam, you know, and I'm like,

thank God he covered for me there at that moment. But I'm like, crap, you know, and of course it's just like, it's replaying. I mean, everybody saw it.

And besides that moment, I thought like that was kind of a coming out party for me because it was so much ball. And it was just like, call it how you see it. It was a great game. The energy was awesome. It was off the charts. And I think that was the first time I felt at the end of that game like, man,

I'd love to have been playing in that game, you know. And if I ever get that opportunity to play, and I think I can still, because it is fleeting. Football is fleeting. It's going to end. You know, I'm 36 years old. It's going to end soon for me. But to get back in there and kind of get in the boat with the football players and go after it, I don't know if I'll ever get another chance.

I like TV. I did. I enjoyed it. And I thought we improved, and we're going to win over the long, long game. I just, it was that simple of like, if I ever get a chance after that game,

I felt like that was when I felt that fire, you know, of competing and the player came out of me, you know, and I think everybody has to come to that decision at a different time. And I just felt like there's still something left in the tank to go out there and play. I'm all for it. I never want you guys to retire. I'm serious. Like, especially as I get older,

I just go, you know, keep, keep playing. Cause I've had friends that have retired. And as soon as they're back that first year, they're like, man, you know, if I could have kept playing, I, I have a couple thoughts. And if you go back to TV, when you told ESPN, you were out, how did they handle it? Do they try to talk you out of it? No, they were great. They were great. You know, I mean... Did that bother you that they didn't try to talk you out of it?

No, I mean, you know, I think they were all in with me, you know, and... I think they were, too. Yeah, I mean, look, trust me, if Peyton Manning said he wanted that job, I mean, look, he's going to get that job, you know what I mean? Just to your point of they're going to want these guys. I mean, he's one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play, you know, but I think when they made that decision, they were committed to us. And, um, you know, from that standpoint, there was a lot of opportunity.

I was going to do a show, take over the Gruden show in the spring where I thought there was ways that I could win it back over time, you know, the football side of me that, I don't know. I felt like people connected with that when I started talking ball, much like when I played and it was just, it took a while for me to get there, you know, and a little bit longer than I anticipated, you know, where you don't have to be so scripted. You can just, you know, call the game how you see it. And so I just, it took a little time. That's all I can say.

And was it perfect? Hell no, it wasn't perfect. You know, we still had a long way to go. I had a long way to go. But, yeah, they were great. You know, I mean, they were, and I think with ESPN, maybe different than other networks, I could be wrong. You know, they have that a lot of times, you know, with coaches and different things where

they get a year and they do it. And Bruce Pearl did it, right? I mean, did television for a couple years, and then they go back into coaching. Chip Kelly did it. And so I felt like ESPN's had some of those experiences. And so they were great when I went through that, and I'm sure it allows them a chance to reboot and get it right. So the shaved head, I got to ask you, you freaked out the social media world in a different way this weekend. And as somebody who had to give up a while ago myself,

did we go assistance for the TV show? And then you were like, I don't feel like dealing with this anymore. Update us on that, because I think more people are worried about that question than I asked it than anything else. Yeah. Well, look, first of all, I just say, you know,

it's time to come home and, you know, Scott Van Pelt has a great line. It's time to come home. I came home. I think more than anything, it was the power of makeup and angles. You know,

I was right on the Mendoza or maybe below. There was no receding there? You know, it looked good in the front and, and, you know, it was a little bit in the back there and power of makeup. It can do wonders, you know, but there wasn't anything like, you know, people always was a little bit in the back there. No kidding. Power of makeup. It can do wonders.

But there wasn't anything like people always used to say things. When I did read it, I would get a good chuckle out of it like, hey, man, what's Witten got going on? What did he do? So you would read the tweets. Makeup can do wonders. You jumped into it every now and then. You would allow yourself to have like,

all right, this is going to suck. I'll read my mentions. Yeah. Yeah. I think like I could be wrong in saying this, but if you're working that hard and you want to be good at something, you better know what the narrative is out there. I mean, you can't just be immune to it and just, I don't listen to the outside noise. I don't now it can't define you. It can't, you know, You can't change who you are, so to speak, just to try to get approval because that's a rough road, especially in television. That's a rough road because there's not a score. So if you're just trying to keep up of, hey, he needs to be more critical, you can't change who you are, but there are some good points out there if you can get past it.

So I enjoyed seeing it. I wasn't sensitive to it. You know, I'd be like, you know, I'm like, yeah, it's a good point. You know, probably should have touched on that one. But some of the other stuff, like I just laughed and chuckled, you know, just, you know, the hair plugs and different stuff like that. So you didn't go Urlacher here. You went, you just were like that was was it so

stressful you lost that much hair you're just talking angles no i think just the the power of makeup man it does it does wonders for you and uh are you liking the shaved head though you know it's just it's it's uh it takes a little bit to get adjusted to but i mean look i I think you go through it and you can't allow that to get in the way. You know what I mean? It's like, all right, those are just people just kind of, you know, it's Twitter. It's just part of it, you know? No, I do. I know it well.

I mean, the thing is, more often than not, none of it bothers me. And then every now and then I'll be like, that one. Well, people say like, oh, I didn't see that. You know, I don't read anything. Well, yeah, you do. I mean, we all keep up, you know, you're lying to me. If you said you didn't, you didn't read it or you don't know what's kind of being said out there. Maybe Bill Belichick, I would say he probably really doesn't, you know, and you know, when you get that many championships, you're formed. And look again, I think as a player, look, I took criticism throughout my career, different times. I've had adversity my whole life along the way in the

journey, but more than anything else, when you're in the deep end, that's going to happen. When you're a big time player or you're on a big time stage like Monday night football, there's going to be criticism and you cannot let that allow that to affect you to a point where it's changing who you are or you're, or you're trying to get approval all times. Cause you're not going to win that. You know? And I think that's when, when I was able to kind of figure that out, it was like, all right, perfect. You know what I mean? Just call the game the best way you can. And you'll improve over time. And I think you can't just say like, Hey,

I'm going to do what I do and not worry about it. You still have to improve. I knew I had, you know, it was going to be a long jump to become good at television. Um, and it is, it's an art that these guys do. I mean, and I'd watch all these guys, you know, when I was starting to prep and I got a lot of respect for them, you know, the, the, you know, Kirk curb streets and Troy and Tony and these guys are really good at it, you know, Kirk Herbstreits and Troy and Tony, and these guys are really good at it, you know,

but you can't allow an approval rating to kind of conform who you are, you know, and for me, it's like, as great as that was, and we did a college national championship. We obviously didn't call the game, but we did a little side piece, and I think it was like ESPN News we did, and then we called the super bowl for uh australia and new zealand and some of those places and being in those venues back-to-back weeks kind of hit me like it's great calling a game it really it's unbelievable calling a game and being a part

of it but it's not playing i'm not having an impact on the whether we win or lose the game and i think more than anything else, it was that simple of, I want to be in the game. I want to be a part of that. Look, I know. I didn't even play, Jason, and I'll sit at home and watch all these games, and I'm like, sweet. The Nuggets, you need to take them seriously.

And you get the chance to go back, you know, and, and you get the chance to go back and do it. I'll tell you this. If you ever do TV again, I'm going to give you two pointers right now. Don't prep as much as you did. Cause I used to prep so much that I let the prep get in the way of the actual flow of what I was doing for radio shows. And number two, when you screw up, own it. And if you couldn't pronounce Ekubon's name, just go, man, I'm so excited. I can't even get the names outright tests. And then the public turns and starts to like you. It's weird. It's like, oh man, he just owned his mistakes. Like I always think the best broadcasters is the one because we all screw up all the time, live events. There's no perfect broadcast. And so when you

screw up, you just go, all right, you know, and you kind of, you smoothen out the rough edge live in front of the audience and it works. And if you do it again, because of everything you went through and the chance to go back, I already know you're going to be five times, 10 times better. I just know you will. Yeah. And I think I will. I mean, look, I think as it unfolded, I started to do that, you know, I'm like, Hey, and booger in the booth, I think like this right now, you know what I mean? But that, you know, I'm like, Hey, it's right now, you know what I mean? But Hey, you know, we're, we're getting criticized until you take a little subtle jabs, you know, I, I, the, the rabbit out of the head and comment, I said something about that, you know, after that. And, you know, look,

I think just trying to be real, um, man, I always just say, you know, the truth will set you free, you know what I mean? Just couldn't say it, but back to, you know, playing, I think there's a great Teddy Roosevelt quote that I used to have, and Coach Garrett gave it to me a long time ago. It's a famous one. I'm not breaking anything to you here. But he had the man in the arena. And it's something along the lines of, you know, at the end, the best in the end,

he experiences high achievement. Who are at the worst, if he fails, he fails while daring greatly. Something along those lines. And I think that's just simple, the most simple way I can put plan. You know, that you want to be in the deep end. You want to play as long as you can and experience that. And everybody comes to their own realization in real time of, okay, when's that done? Is it 40? Is it 45? Is it a bad back injury that gets you there?

And I probably tried to script it perfect. I didn't and made the decision. But come on, man. I mean, look at this journey for me. Played 15 years for the Cowboys, walk into that chair of Monday Night Football and now have an opportunity to play again. I mean, it's been incredible, man. I'm so thankful to have this. And I got no complaints, you know.

And I realized that when I was in Monday Night Football. Like, let's not feel sorry for ourselves here. You know what I mean? Like, we're calling Monday Night Football. let's not feel sorry for ourselves here. You know what I mean? Like we're, we're calling Monday night football. And,

uh, so I never allowed myself to like, you know, pity parties or feel sorry for myself from that standpoint, because, um, I knew what the big stage was all about. And I,

and I felt like I was prepared for that, you know, when I entered in, uh, Monday night football. All right. Final thing here. Cause I at least have to ask you one Cowboys question.

And that is now that you've done it. And then you see how, ball. All right. Final thing here, because I at least have to ask you one Cowboys question. And that is, now that you've done it, and then you see how, especially because it's the Cowboys, how those of us that are talking heads are just obsessed with whatever dramatic storyline. It's Garrett doesn't know what he's doing. Dak has regressed. Give me the thing that you hear the talking heads say about the Cowboys that you think we all have totally wrong the thing that you think we just whiff on when it comes to Cowboys and understanding who this team is well I don't know that I I guess if I'd say one thing I I think Dak Prescott's gonna be a really good player he is a good player I mean look at his record um I think early on look they just after Dez wasn't here, I was no longer here.

You know, they probably didn't have that big time receiver that you can lean on. So a lot of criticism went to Dak. And then when they got Amari Cooper, they kind of got on a roll and, you know, win the division and all that kind of stuff. So I think Dak is going to be that type of player. We've never seen the combination of, or very rarely do we see, the combination of ability to kind of create and on the edge, kind of the college players that are entering the league now, along with still being a pocket passer. And so I think, is he evolving? Does he still have room to grow? Certainly. He'd be the first to say that. And with Garrett, I mean, I think, you know, look, everybody's their own opinion, right? I mean, of, of how it evolves.

I do think, you know, people see this kind of rigid, you know, he claps, he's, he's, you know, what, what's he doing in the game? I mean, he's really smart. He prepares, he also delegates, you know, and some, some of that responsibility in the game. And so I think his team responded and And when they got three and five, I think it's, it's full of a good roster that can compete. What, what level does that mean? I mean, there's other rosters that are good. So it's not like they're heading shoulders above anybody or

we're ahead of shoulders above anybody, but I think it's good enough. And that, that enticed me to say, okay, we have a good roster. Guys love football. They compete their ass off. And they know what it takes to go to that next level. And I their ass off. Um, and, uh, they know what it takes to, to go to that next level. And I can go in and go back and be a part of it. And my biggest thing in coming back is I didn't want those guys to feel like, okay, big brother's coming home. I gotta go sleep on the couch. You know, it's their team just as much as my team, you know, and I'm coming back to play my role and people are like, are you going to embrace however many snaps and look, all that works itself out. You know, it's pro football back to play my role. And people are going to be like, are you going to embrace however many snaps? And, look, all that works itself out.

You know, it's pro football. You've got to win. There's no rebuild. You don't have time for any of that. And so all that will work itself out for me. And my thing is just go back in there with the guys. I love it. You know, and truthfully, I approached this job for 15 years the same way.

You know, like I was an undrafted free agent every time I woke up and I drove in to the star in this facility I thought okay how am I going to improve today because somebody's coming for your job regardless if you're in your first year, your pro bowl year or you're 15 years in and so that's not going to change

for me I'm going to approach it the same way be a good teammate help those guys out and all that stuff will work itself out you know and I'm going to approach it the same way. Be a good teammate. Help those guys out. All that stuff will work itself out. I'm just glad that they wanted me back and could have me in here. Look, they don't need to look over their shoulder. It's their team. They're ready for this. They won a division

last year. Won a playoff game. Had a chance against the Rams. I think oftentimes we try to think all that through, what's that going to do with the leadership. They're fine. I'm going to get along with them.

We have the same goal, you know, and how can I help? And you go share that commitment and go work your ass off and see what happens. And that's what I'm kind of excited to do. And how long does that last? I don't know, you know, but I think I can live with whatever happens. And TV was a good experience for me. I got better in that year. I got to see 30 other teams, 31 other teams, how they build a team, how they go out and play.

Um, I felt like I improved as a leader is kind of my knowledge around the league of what wins, what's successful. I think I got better setting in the Monday night football chair. Well, I'll tell you this, you sound totally at peace with it. don't know you i don't claim to know you well or anything like that but watching for afar or from afar see it's not easy um it's just i'll read your twitter mentions after this podcast goes you know or some people have some criticism you probably should read yours after this because i think people that didn't know you and maybe had an opinion and made a joke here or there are just going to hear a guy that sounds like just a real good dude. And I can't wait to see you back out there. Very few people walk the earth that are probably more comfortable on a Sunday in a game on the field on a Sunday than in the booth on a Monday. And it sounds like you're back home where you should be.

So I'm really pumped for you, man. I appreciate it, man. And I admire your work. I know it's not easy. You and Bill do an unbelievable job. And you know, sometimes you gotta, you know, gotta be willing to go to the hot sauce takes, you know, and that's what it takes sometimes. And you guys kind of, you gotta live on that gray area where sometimes you take some shots, but it's not too big of a shot. And so I've been a big fan of y'all's podcast for a long time, man. Keep it up. Awesome. Thanks, man. Want to thank Jason Witten. Want to thank Kyle, just because we do. We need to do that. Keep subscribing, rating and reviewing to our Dual Threat Pod that we're keeping this thing

going. We're going to have great draft coverage for you. And you know what we're going to do? We're not going to do our power rankings of teams 12 minutes into free agency and before the draft. We're going to do it after. It's a weird concept, I know. Looking for a high-protein snack? You heard me talk about Just the Cheese that's low in carbs and isn't the usual boring beef jerky or nuts.

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