The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Jay Bilas Talks Final Four, Flagg Vs. Zion, Early NBA Draft Thoughts, and the Future of College Hoops

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Russillo is joined by Jay Bilas to preview the Final Four and share his thoughts on each team, break down what makes Cooper Flagg so good, and discuss the future of college sports (1:11). Plus, Life Advice with Ceruti and Kyle (1:00:25)! How hot do you have to be to run shirtless? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Jay Bilas Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, Mike Wargon, and Jonathan Frias Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and President-Select states gambling prop call. Want to hear a gambler? Visit rg-help.com. On today's pod, an hour long college basketball discussion with the one and only Jay Billis. We'll go through all the final four teams. We'll talk through the flag.

We'll also talk a little draft, but I think the back end of the conversation, a good 20 plus minutes on where we're at, college shoots and the NCAA and the NIL and the transfer portal. And we've got life advice. Enjoy. He's the voice of college basketball for ESPN. It is Jay Bill. Let's get ready for the final four.

What's up, man? It's good to see you. It is great to see you, Ryan, and quite a flex with the Pacific Ocean crashing on the beach right behind you. I'm very jealous. I might be the only guy without a studio backdrop. And it's like, all right, I think this still works. Some people have accused me of it's just CGI,

and I'm in Farmington still. Just crying at everybody. Let's just, you know, look, we've got four monster teams. We knew if you're into the Ken Palm stuff, I thought it was interesting. I was reading like, look, we've got four monster teams. We knew if you're into the Ken Palm stuff, I thought it was interesting. I was reading like, hey, these are four historic net rating one seed teams.

And if you want to go chalk with your bracket, it might not be a bad idea. And it ends up being the right idea. So I just want to start with Duke because I think they've been the most impressive. We could talk roster and all this stuff, you know, whether it's Cooper, you know, Cy and James being the fourth option at times.

Like I watched them going, because I'm late to it, I get into the conference championship stuff, but I've been really, really excited about this tournament, even though we haven't had the buzzer beaters, but I think I just start here, as impressive as they are, how do you attack this Duke team?

Well, you'd better be big and athletic and deep in order to handle them and skilled. I think Florida is in a good position to be successful against Duke, whether they win or not, we'll see. And Houston's got a chance because they are really tough and rugged and tempo control and they can shoot it. That's a big difference from last year's Houston team. I think Houston would have beaten Duke last year if Jamal Shedd hadn't gotten hurt in the first half of that Sweet 16 game. But Duke is

way different this year. They're the most talented team. They're as deep as anybody. And their athleticism and length on both ends of the floor is really difficult to deal with over a 40-minute period. But look, all these teams are capable of winning this thing. You usually don't say that when you go to the Final Four. Like, I didn't think last year, I didn't think anybody was going to be UConn once they got there, even Purdue, but I didn't think NC State or Alabama could do it. This year, I think all each of the four teams has a legitimate shot to walk away with this thing.

They have to play well and, uh, and have things break their way. But there's, there's nobody that I think stands head and shoulders above, even though Duke has played the best since the tournament started. I don't know if it's me jumping into it late and and not being with it all the time but like when I think about the consistency of a team's effort and the consistency of their communication like Tennessee did it really well there's other like Michigan State's always gonna be prepared for this kind of stuff I think Houston is in that category but watching the communication still with

college players here of understanding how they wanna switch things, who's helping where. Is this new to see guys like just be this locked in at this level? I don't know if it's better coaching. I don't know if it's better response to coaching, but I find it to be really, really impressive like at the college level to see a team locked in

for 40 minutes the way we've seen from a handful of these teams. Yeah, I think it's a combination of the things that you took off there because a lot of these, there are so many of these teams that are essentially new. Like Duke's a new team this year, completely new. And it was really well put together and very thoughtfully put together.

But I think it's a group of players that, you know, I think John Scheiner staff, they've done a great job schematically of teaching and of what they want to do on both ends of the floor. But the players are receptive to it and they've got high basketball IQs and they've got they've got like egos that are they've all got egos of really good players, which is important. Like you want guys to think that they can go out and ball out individually and collectively, but they don't, they really don't seem to care who scores on a given, in a given game.

And I thought the most, to me, the most impressive thing about that team was when flag got injured, you know, that that ankle injury in the ACC tournament, which, you know, I don't know what you thought of that whole thing, but I was getting asked about, you know, is he going to be okay? And I'm like, sprained his ankle. He's not in a coma, like relax. sprained ankles happen. But guys step forward into greater roles. And it didn't seem to

be an issue for anybody. Now, they weren't playing the best of competition, I'll grant that. And I think that's the biggest question mark about Duke is how are they going to react when they get when they get into a close game? And I think they'll have a close game in the semi final and or the final if they're able to get past Houston. And how are they going to react to that? Because if you remember back to like 1991 when Duke played UNLV in the semifinal, year before UNLV had beaten Duke by 30, I was a graduate assistant coach on that team.

And one of the things that Coach K emphasized to the team is, hey, if we're in the game at the end, they don't live in close games and we do, they won't know how to act and we do. And that was a kind of a force multiplier, I think, for the guys when we were in a close game, like, hey, wait a minute, you know, it was a confidence building thing.

You know, how will they react in a close game? That's the only thing we really don't know because they haven't had a close game in a long, long time. To have the multiple scoring options, and I just can't get past the defense because Alabama was a really good basketball team this year. And to watch that game, like if you were to chart out Alabama season

on shot quality, that has to be the lowest of any game because it wasn't that they didn't make threes, it's that they were taking threes that they just gave up. They would give up on the position being like, we can't drive on any of these guys, the help is always there, and then Malawatch, even if we have just a sliver of daylight, Malawatch is at the rim to contest all of this stuff.

And when I think about Houston in this matchup, like Houston's probably the only team that could kinda out Tennessee, Tennessee. Like watching Tennessee's first half against Kentucky, And when I think about Houston in this matchup, like Houston's probably the only team that could kind of out Tennessee, Tennessee. Like watching Tennessee's first half against Kentucky, I was like, this is so intense. It is incredible. And then Houston's like, we're ready.

We're ready for this. And as you mentioned, they're 40% from three and they're all tough, tough players. You're not gonna play for Kelvin unless you're really, really tough, but it's the size thing. It feels like there's a size mismatch here for Houston that even with their toughness in shooting, I just wonder if they can keep that going for 40 minutes and pull this off.

That's going to be the issue. LJ Cryer is a bucket getter. He was the first guy really in NCAA history to score 30 points in an NCAA tournament game for two different teams. He did it for Baylor and for Houston. He can go get his own when he needs to, but is he going to be able to do it with Sion James on him? That's got length and size or Tyrese Proctor. I mean, Duke switches a lot, but you're right on the Alabama thing. Like I think Duke recognized what, at least what I believe the kind of team Alabama is, they're

not a three-point shooting team, they're a driving team. And they protected the paint, and that took away a lot of their kick-out threes. And if you don't give them offensive rebounds where they kick it out and get step-in threes, you can really limit their three-point attack. And then part of what Duke does is they control the tempo on the offensive end. They'll take transition when they have it. But they're very efficient in the half court and they use the clock and they make you guard.

And as a result, they can really disrupt you. Their offense, I guess what I'm trying to say in a crappy way is their offense helps their defense. And so they're not putting themselves in a lot of transition situations with their defense. And so they're not putting themselves in a lot of transition situations with their offense. Florida became everybody's kind of favorite team here when you looked at the difference between the ACC competition for Duke and then what the SEC was this year, what Florida had to get through to win that tournament. And whether it's the size or

everybody now realizing like this Walter Clayton, the three point shot that he hit against Texas Tech, I still cannot believe. It's in the paint, it's a basically sprint to the three point line turnaround and they didn't necessarily even need it at that time when he took the three. And so Tech, I look at him and like, look, I know he's six, three, so it's not like

he's the biggest guard. You look at the draft stuff, he starts at Ione, he's been around for four years, so nobody's really gonna like that. I'm not saying he's like the most dynamic, but his calmness, whether you go through, you know, the Tennessee game and the SEC tournament, the Alabama game, and then to see him in that moment,

and I think the broadcasters were right on it. Like if you'd watched him the last few weeks, you realize that this dude is as comfortable as anybody in these huge spots. And it feels like they have the size to match up with anyone. They have, they have everything. And, and I thought going into the tournament, nobody's playing better than them. Now, part of that was probably, uh, discounting Duke a little bit because

flag was injured through the ACC tournament and all that. And so you didn't get to see him at full strength. But I saw courtside Florida at full strength and the way they played toward the end of the year, middle of the year on, I didn't think anybody's playing better than them. I thought they were the best team. And right now, Duke's playing the best. Duke's playing better than they are now. Is that going to continue next week? I mean, I don't know when hot streaks begin and when they end and all that stuff. But your point on Clayton, like he's a bucket getter and he's one of the few guys remaining that if an offense breaks

down, he can just take it on himself and go find you a basket. And like you're right. So he was a football, basically a hot shot football recruit coming out of high school and wasn't really recruited for basketball. So he goes to Iowa and plays for Patino, played in the NCAA tournament against Yukon. They got beat and then he transfers to Florida. And he was almost this good last year offensively, but he's a way better defender now. Their whole team has taken a leap from being in the 90s in defensive efficiency to being top 10.

Like your point about the four teams, all four teams in the Final Four ranked in the top 10 in both offense and defense, which is really unusual to have that many teams that can do that. But I think Florida with their size, their offensive rebounding, their big guys are skilled, and they're physical and tough. If Duke played them, that would, I think, be probably the toughest matchup for both that they would see all year. Is there anything to take from the Florida matchup then when they beat Auburn at their place by nine beginning of February? Is there something that you would see from that game? You're like, Hey, that's flukey, but that's repeatable. I don't know if it was flukey. They didn't have Elijah Martin. So I did that game with

Dan Schulman and going into the game, we were thinking, God, I hope Florida is going to be competitive in this one without Martin. And he had like a hip thing going on. If I remember right, it's been over a month. And then they wind up, I think Florida got down early, they were down like nine or something. And they wind up winning, they dribbled out the clock, they like won by nine or 10, whatever the score was. And I remember going, man, these guys are legit. Denzel Aberdeen steps up off the bench and Urban Klavchar, their Serbian guard, or excuse me, Slovenian guard, he can really shoot it. And he's a good handler, good passer.

He's not a great defender, but that's the only knock you can have on him. But they're big guys are tough to deal with. You know, they're like this, the way they seal off help, if you drive, they'll basically seal off a shop locker and they do it better than any team I've seen. Other teams do it, but they don't do it as well as Florida does. So look, they've got, they've got everything you need to win. But so do the other three teams. That's sort of the challenge of this thing is, is I think both the semifinal games have a bit of a coin flip feel to them. But I do like the fact that like for Auburn,

I think haven't been beaten by them at home gives them an edge in prep, not in, in playing. Like, I don't think that stuff matters. Once a game starts, I think it matters in your preparation, your mindset, all that stuff. I think that's really helpful in that week and in the days leading up to the Final Four. And Houston has something similar because they lost to Duke last year and they felt like they were better. And this is kind of their opportunity to prove it and prove it on this stage. And it's obviously another step on the way to a championship, but having that extra edge, I think, was helpful.

I wanna talk scores because I'll finish here with Auburn in that there's a lot of guys that I'll see, especially when I get into the draft prep part of it, where I'm like, okay, this guy scored a million points in high school, he's a five star, everybody wanted him, and then I'll see him in college. You know, granted, usually if you're that high of a profile, we don't know how long we're gonna get to see you,

and there'll be this kind of moment where I'll think, oh, this isn't gonna work. Like, I know you drove through everybody your entire college career. Like, I almost think of, like, and I'm not trying to knock R.J. Hampton, but like, when I think back of what R.J. Hampton was doing at the levels that he was playing at,

I was like, okay, this is really, really impressive, but you're just kind of just driving through everybody, right? And then you have Todd Pettiford who comes in to Hawburn. And I don't know that the college game is littered with players that when it all really does break down, can you find a way to get your own bucket? And I know you're talking about that with Clayton junior,

but I don't think it's a very long list in college anymore, especially with how intense the defensive stuff is. And to see him, I wouldn't say he saved them against Michigan, because Denver Jones hit a couple of big threes in that as well. But Pettiford, I feel like is this other level of can you bail us out? And I know he didn't have a great game

against Tennessee in the SEC tournament. He didn't make a shot and they took him out, but his comfort level in some of these tournament games and on top of his ability is kind of like an X factor where if that guy gets going, Auburn is right back to what we thought they could be being the best team in college basketball. Yeah, no, I agree with that.

And look, they're really capable. They're four guards, Pettiford among them. They can all really shoot it. I think they shoot close to 40% as a group, and they shoot over 88% from the foul line as a group. And even though overall, that's not a good free throw shooting team, if you get the ball in the hands of your guards at the end of a game,

that's a separating factor. But Pettiford reminds me a little bit, they're different players, but like Rob Dillingham at Kentucky, because both those guys are conscience free bucket getters. And, but Pettiford is a better handler. I think he's stronger and he's more of a point guard. So he can run a team and he's a pretty good passer. You know, I think he defends okay. Like that's not his strength, but he's certainly improved there and he's reliable. Like you don't have to worry about him when he's out there.

He's got like, I don't know, like conscience free is the best way I can say it. But it's almost like, you know, you want your scores to have a little bit of a screw loose. And he's got that. Like, he's not afraid of anything. He knows he can score on anybody and he's willing to do it. But when you have Jani Broom, when you can just throw the ball in there and and they run a lot of the old Tom Davis flex action. So if you decide you're going to double Broom,

especially, you know, when he's on the right block, you know, he's left handed. He can just throw a left handed hook pass. He's a really good passer out of a double. So you got to think twice about that. And, but Pettiford's not the only one. Miles Kelly can really shoot it. Denver Jones can really shoot it. They're legit. I don't think they defend as well as they have.

They defended earlier in the year, but they're still, I mean, they're going to be really hard to deal with for Florida. Yeah. And Broome was really good in that Florida game. Like sometimes you're thinking, okay, well, you know, with that size because Michigan State wants to play him straight up. And, you know, I'm not saying that's when Auburn won the game in the first few minutes because there was still a couple spurts there from Michigan State later on. But I mean, the early tone being set,

single coverage, Broome was just going to take you in there and beat up on you. I don't know if that necessarily worked against Florida, but it was 19-11 against them in that winning or in the win for Florida on the other side. It's really funny that you brought up Dillingham for Pettiford because when I now watch these last few weeks, I was texting with some NBA teams going, hey, give me your analysis of Pettiford now to Dillingham there. When you go back to last year in the first round, more teams were like, look, Dillingham was just way more of an efficient player. But I'd say like my pushback a little bit was I think Pettiford's body control and like what he thinks, like where he knows he's going with a decision. Now it's kind of nice when you can have a seven footer like golden switch out on you.

Cause that drive where he brought him back out and was like, I'm just going to go right past you. Dillingham is so fast, he's so athletic, but it almost felt like in a frenzy. And when I watch Pettiford, his athleticism feels a bit more controlled, even though again, the NBA teams are like from an efficiency standpoint,

there's no comparison right now. Yeah, that's fair. But you know, we're still trying to project it out, like what they are now, because you know, Dillingham, even though he plays, he can play minutes, he's not a player that's relied upon for extensive minutes as a rookie.

And you know, Pettiford, you're thinking long-term with him. And he's got a strong frame. He handles, he handles a crap out of it. Like he can really handle the ball and I think he's a good passer. So he's an initiator, but you know, I always, I mean, I'm, I'm probably a little bit more of an older school thinker that, you know, I would prefer a bigger guard, but, but, but small guards have shown they can do it now. And you know, 10 years ago, that was a, that was sort of a check mark against you. Like, you know, I don't know.

I like big guards. This guy's not that big. That's going to be a problem. It's not a problem anymore. The game so spread out and wide open now. I mean, you'd prefer size, but he's still, you know, for his height, he's a lengthy guy and he doesn't seem to have a problem. So I like him long-term. I think he's got a real chance. Okay, so I also asked about 10 teams.

Cooper coming out this year, Zion coming out in his class. So as I know, through this kind of exercise, it's probably a little tough mentally to put the toothpaste back in the tube with Zion, you know, knowing the health concerns on top of this. And I was impressed. It was pretty split because there's still the people that evaluated Zion coming out. And I would agree. Look, his top level offensive ability stuff is like unguardable.

And it actually ended up becoming true, even though he just hasn't played enough. But when I think about Zion, and I still like, I hold out some hope for him. I don't know how long a franchise can, you know, keep going to bed at night, praying that they get a full season from him, but he kind of needs to be your point guard. Or you need to run some action where he's catching it, you know, 15 feet out extended and then kind of taking over the ball. And as great as that stuff is, Cooper can impact the game without scoring. And that feels like, like my opinion is that as much as I love Zion coming out, the tie breaker goes to Cooper because of the defense.

I don't know what they did with him, but his youth coaches, everyone that had a hand in this like all deserve all the credit because just his understand I was watching him communicate switches and then it'd be stacked up and he pointing at guys being like no no you're taking him if he comes out. And he's basically playing point guard for this team and in a willing deferring player despite all his offensive skills so the fact that even as dynamic as the peak Zion stuff is, which is beyond Cooper's offensive game, Cooper could have six points and I could still feel like he had a huge hand in Duke winning a basketball game. He's, he's, he checks more boxes than Zion did. So in my view, Zion was one of these guys, like I had never seen anything like him on a basketball floor. It still happens. I can't imagine there'll be anybody quite like him in the future.

Like Lawrence Taylor and Michael Jordan had a baby, it was that kind of thing. But he's not the handler, not the passer, not the defender, doesn't have the versatility of Cooper Flagg. Flagg is the best freshman, I think, best, most complete freshman Dukes ever had. And I don't know how you feel about this, but I think Grant Hill is the best player Dukes ever produced. When you consider what Grant not only did in college, but what he did his first six, seven years in the league, what was he, five times all NBAs for seven years. And without that, grew some injury to his ankle that could have killed him with that staph infection. He was going to be the counterpart to Jordan,

and was for a period of time with Detroit. But to me, Cooper, nobody has done what he's done as a freshman at Duke. And I can't think of very many, you know, maybe say Carmelo Anthony at Syracuse or something. But there aren't that many that have come, that have done what he's done as a freshman. And considering he's barely 18 years old, like how does he project out? He's gotten way better throughout the course of the season. Like his shooting has improved markedly through the course of the season. And then he's a different cat, competitively, mindset, mentality, whatever you want to call it. I don't know if this is a good story or not, but I'll tell you anyway. I was up at Duke watching practice and Shire said, hey, would you mind speaking to the team? And wherever I am, somebody asked me to do

that. I'll do it. I don't mind doing it. But I always kind of preface it by, when I sat in your seat, I loved it when a 60-year-old man came and told us what he thinks. But as I was, they were in this like, all these programs have these theater seats now, so it's kind of graduated up. And, and as I'm facing the team, flag is sitting to my right. And I noticed as I'm speaking, and whatever BS I was spewing out, he's sitting there taking notes. And honestly, my first reaction was, here we go. Like Eddie Haskell over here taking notes.

And those guys are so young, they wouldn't know who Eddie Haskell was from Leave It to Beaver. So I gotta come up with a new one. But then I kind of realized like, no, this is a serious thing. Like he takes every opportunity to improve. And whether my BS was worth writing down or not,

he did it anyway, because he was there, and he's gonna make the most of it. And that's kinda how, and then you watch practice and you go, man, this dude is different. He's kinda locked into everything and plays every play in practice, and he listens and he absorbs, and he's got a different, like everybody says

they're a competitor and there are a lot of great competitors out there, but there are tiers in that too. And of the players I've seen, especially young players, I would put him at the, on the top tier in that category. He's kind of like Leitner was in that way. Like, he's got this weird kind of, I shouldn't say weird, but this unique way about him that he will compete in everything he's doing. And, you know, you can see it on the floor. Like, remember that play against Pittsburgh that went all viral when he makes a steal, goes down and dunks it, you know, with SportsCenter top one, you know, top 10 and all that stuff. And it's been replayed a million times. You know, obviously it was a, is a incredible play. But what impressed me most about that play was he had just picked up his third foul.

And that was an out of bounds underneath play. And he winds up taking the ball away from a guy down on the low block and taking it the other way. Like most players, let alone freshmen, would have backed off a little bit, not wanting to pick up their fourth there. And he makes that play and then the ending was what captured everyone's attention. But I was like, holy cow, that's pretty impressive at that age to have that kind of that kind of awareness of what's going on and he's only he's only improved that you know i haven't seen him get he may not have had a great game every time he's been out but it's kind of like late in the game it's hard to think of a time he was out playing um he hadn't he hadn't been out played that i've seen um which is pretty

impressive i like the bc game up at bc because was, it was like a random night where I go, you know, I'm just going to watch a full Duke game here. And it, it seemed like Boston College, some of the players had a meeting before the game. They're like, Hey, let's just beat up on this guy. You know, he's from Maine. And you know, he was just, he was, he was completely unfazed and maybe it's just the, Hey, look, it wasn't like he was going to go to the heights and be intimidated by Boston College, who wasn't a very good team this year because like he also practiced with NBA guys and team USA stuff. So I don't know, I don't know at this point that he's going be rattled, maybe with 5,000 strong heckling him throughout the game, but one guy hit him just straight in the face.

The player just decided, I'm hitting this guy in the face. I don't care. And Cooper just kind of looks around, and I think it may have been another shot of his family, it was a crowd being like, what is going on down there? And it's like, then he drops 28 on him. And it's funny you told that note story, because yeah, my first instinct would be like, oh my God, oh no, like not one of these guys.

Like he's gonna show professor Billis that he's taking notes to try to like guard it. Cause like so many people would eat that up, right? Like announcers, there's nothing better than when the team decides and not take a shot with the shot clock under the game clock. And then the announcers would be like, oh, what a class move there from the seniors. than when the team decides and not take a shot with the shot clock under the game clock.

And then the announcers would be like, oh, what a class move there from the senior. You know, it's just like, like, it gives a shit. Like going for the layup. Like I don't understand how that became like, except the NBA, it's like Armageddon if anybody takes a shot now in that scenario.

But I think people really fall, but to hear your genuine relaying of this stuff to back up everything else because just the way I see him communicate inside of a game and his instincts and all the fundamentals. I'm like they, his family, the coaches, man, they did a, they did a spectacular job with this guy. All right. That's a good second. The only thing, the only thing, the only beef I have with flag and his team and Canipal and Shire, frankly, is they have, they have made Duke likable again. And I mean, there was a lot of years put into making Duke hateable and now it's out the

window. And I got a problem with that. Where do you think Canipal ranks on all time Duke face? Well, I mean, he's a likable guy, too, which he shouldn't be liked. Like, what is what does he think he's doing? I love watching him play like he's he's really talented. Like he's a he's a big time shooter, and he makes so many plays driving it, even though he's not the best athlete on the floor. Uh, he, he makes play and he, he seems like he's around every loose ball. Um,

like I think if, if flag were not on the team, we'd be talking about Canipa will be in one of the two or three best freshmen in the country. Like, that's how good I think he is. And hey, when when flag was out in the ACC tournament, you know, Kniepel's MVP of the tournament. And he's got more in him that people perhaps haven't seen because he's blended in around everybody else. That's sort of the best part of that team is they they

they blend in into whoever is having their hot night, you know, and they seem genuinely happy for whoever is doing it. It's not a me thing, it's a we thing, and that's easy to say, but they kind of personify it on the floor. Hey, let me tell you about one of my favorite bets that FanDuel has right now. They're called player performance doubles. If you don't know about them, you got to check them out. There are these two like parlays already made for you. FanDuel takes an NBA player prop, then combines it with a bet on that player's team to win.

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Let's talk a little bit about the draft because I think coming in there was a thought, like what if Flagg takes a little bit longer and the two guys from Rutgers, whether it's Harper or Ace Bailey, I think Edge Combe has probably become somebody now out of Baylor where it's like, oh, maybe he's actually in that conversation.

I know you still have a lot of work to do. I certainly do as well. But that second tier behind Flag, do you have kind of a preliminary thought or list or order or any of that kind of stuff? And I know we're still months away here. Yeah, I haven't really ordered it yet. Flag to me is the clear number one.

I don't think it's even a discussion point. Earlier in the year, I think when when Harper and Bailey were putting highlight reels together, there may have been, hey, do you see what Ace Bailey like? You project him out. You know, he's going to be he's more athletic. He's more dynamic, all this stuff. But I think flags the best prospect, and I don't think it's a close call in my mind. But Dylan Harper's really good. And to me, that would be the second, that would be the

second pick is I would, I would look to Harper. But there are a bunch of talent that you're right on edge comb. Like I don't know where I need to dig into it more to start thinking about where this draft is going to rank because last year's, you know, was not great. And, and it was a difficult sell, frankly, when people are talking about it, you know, trying to tell me the number one pick isn't the same every year. It's the same number, but it's not the same type of talent. And last year, we didn't have, and this year we do. This year, we've got a number of players. Like, is it ultimately going to compare to like 2003 or something? I'm not willing to say that, but at least that you're conjuring up different years going, okay, you know, this one has some depth and athleticism and real talent I mean, I think that's probably four guys. And like I've said, I have much more to do.

I don't know if Derek Queen goes one last year. No. Yeah. I don't think Fears would, right? Cause I think you're still talking about research with the shot making and that size. And by the way, like as he's closing, I mean, you're starting to realize it

cause I remember doing all the research stuff. I'm like, this guy's gonna go number one. And at least now as he's played, I mean, you're starting to realize it because I remember doing all the Reese's Chase stuff. I'm like, this guy's gonna go number one. And at least now as he's played out his rookie year, like, okay, this makes sense. Like they, you know, where Saar, it almost felt like are they just taking this big guy because he's really mobile and he thinks he can shoot. And, you know, look to Saar's credit,

he's put up really good numbers. He's consistently kept shooting the ball and he's had some really good splits on uncertain months. You know who I think is like fascinating is Danny Wolf. Because he's so different. I don't know that he'll measure at seven feet. I know that it's what he's listed at, but he's basically a guard in a big guy's body in the strangest way that I think I've ever seen it. Right? It's not, oh, Hey, he's, he's Dirk or he's, he's for Zingas who had some nice perimeter skills or somebody who's, you know, north of seven feet, but watching him at Michigan this year and seeing like how comfortable he is just getting into the triple threat dribble drive

stuff and he's basically playing outside because they have golden. So it's not like you're going to post them, but he starts at Yale and he has this year at Michigan, he should be a first round pick, but he's basically playing outside because they have Golden. So it's not like you're going to post him, but he starts at Yale and he has this year at Michigan. He should be a first round pick, but he's a, he's a really interesting. I hope whatever team takes him, like understands what you need to let him do to be him as opposed to like, Oh, we have this seven footer with some ball skills. Yeah. And I think, I think anybody that takes him would value what he can do. And look, I, I, if I've seen it, I can't remember it. I don't remember, you know, middle third pick and roll with two seven-footers.

And Dusty May ran that a lot with those guys. And you know, you got Vlad Golden rolling down the middle with Danny Wolf handling it. And he's a legit passer. He turns it over a little more than you would want, but that's not something that can't be overcome. But I like him a lot. And I think he'll continue to refine his shooting and he'll be able to play in more space.

There's just more space in the NBA. Because most everybody they put on the floor can shoot it. And in college, that's, you don't see as much of that. That's one of the fun parts to me about watching the NBA is like, man, they make every open shot. You give them an open shot, they make it. You know, in college you can leave some guys open and they're not going to make those. And it certainly is often. I mean, the best players, you know, in college, you can leave some guys open and they're not going to make those. It certainly is often.

I mean, the best players, you know, the best players in the NBA came from college. Most of them, except for the international guys. And that's why I wish the college game would be officiated a little more like the NBA and adopt some more of the NBA's rules because I think it makes for a better game. Okay. This is where I want to finish, uh, because it always, you know, respect where you've been and how vocal you've been about a lot of the stuff. Um, and now the NCAA is kind of, I would say it's at this crossroads, but it's like, man, we're just going to be at a different crossroads in two or three

years, I think with so many voices in sports now, there's a lot of hand-wringing about immediate results and then always assuming that that's what it's going to be forever. Part of that was like, hey, there's no Cinderella in the Sweet 16. You can push back on it a little bit and be like, well, if Queen doesn't make that shot against Colorado State, does that mean all of those headlines are worthless? I think there's potentially a real fear here for the mid-majors of like, now we we just recruit these guys and we're gonna lose them all the time, whether it be NIL or just the accepted idea that we're gonna have what,

1700 plus guys in the D1 transfer portal. Where are you kind of with what the game is facing challenge wise and what you would like to see happen in college basketball? Well, I think the game is doing extraordinarily well, given the fact that there's been a leadership void for a hundred years now. Um, you know, the NCAA has done a really poor job of building this into a multi billion

dollar entertainment industry, but burying their heads in the sand that the players were never going to ask for their share and that they were always going to ask for their share. And that they were always going to be protected by the courts, even though they have been violating federal antitrust law for the last 50 years or so. This business built up basically from the... Well, basically from 1984, when the conference could go out and sell their own media rights. And that was taken away from the NCAA based on that Supreme Court ruling. So what I see, Ryan, is there's a, we're in a middle period of where we're ultimately going to be. Like the NCAA used to die on the Hill of amateurism. And now

the Hill they want to die on is employment. So the schools can't pay the players directly. But they can get paid through these collectives and all that stuff. The coaches will say, what's pay for play? Damn right it is. So what? You're doing it willingly. You can see how much they're worth based upon what you're willing to pay them and put together for them and negotiate with them. I have no sympathy about player movement. The NCAA has told us

for a million years, these are students to be treated like any other student and no other student is told when they can transfer, where they can go and what extracurricular activities they can participate in at their new school. So why should players be any different? You want to keep your players, then come to a collective bargaining agreement with them where you have parameters that both the players and the NCAA can agree upon or just sign the players to contracts. If you sign a player to a contract paid by the school, you can negotiate whatever contract terms with that player that the parties agree upon. So you can say, if I'm recruiting you at Old State U, I can say, hey, Ryan, I think you're going

to be a great player for Old State U, a mid-major. We'll sign you to a three-year contract with an option for a fourth. But there's going to be a clause in there of mandatory class attendance. If you get arrested or if you're charged with a crime, we can terminate and there's going to be a buyout in there and the buyout is going to be X amount. So if you want to leave here, you're going to have to pay this buyout or wherever you go is going to have to pay it for you. That'll bring some sanity back into this. I mean, it works for the rest of the American business community, and it works for coaches and administrators and others. It'll work for this.

The solution, if you want to call this a problem, is pretty simple. But the NCAA don't want to do it. What they're doing, what they really want to do is settle this house case that's going to cost them $2.8 billion in past damages, and then a revenue share agreement into the future for the next, I don't know how many years. They haven't seen the final documents yet. But they want to take that to Congress and say, you told us to get our house in order. Here it is. We got the settlement. So make this settlement law. Give us the guardrails that we want, which guardrails is a nice way of

saying restrictions on players only. And then Kevin Willard can negotiate with Villanova while the team's still playing, and Will Wade can do the same while McNeese is still playing. But boy, we want clamps down on the players because they're the asset we want to control. I don't think that's right. I think the players are adults. I think they should be able to negotiate at arm's length with their schools. And if you want it to be like the NBA with a salary cap, then collectively bargain for it. That's the way American business works. Otherwise, they should be free to do what they want to do. And we can sit and talk about there's no loyalty anymore or no commitment, or nobody wants to go through adversity. Well, and I love Kevin Willard. I have no problem with him making the decision he made. This is America. But don't tell me that we can't apply those

standards to him and say like we do to players and say, where was his commitment? He signed a contract with Maryland. What about loyalty? What about, what about tampering? Did Villanova tamper with him? I mean, he was negotiating his agent was negotiating with Bill and over while they're playing in the NCAA tournament. So we can we don't say any of that. What about adversity? Nobody wants to go through adversity anymore. His adversity was the university wouldn't let the team stay in New York an extra night. You can't fight through that adversity. Come on, man. Like you got a better business opportunity, go ahead, take it. But just don't tell the players they can't. And then you're going to tell Walter Clayton Jr.

Florida, you're going to tell him, like, look, we valued you a certain way out of high school, and you proved you were better than we valued you. But you have to stay at Iona. Like, you can't leave there. And or under the old rules, if you leave there, you lose a year of your life. You know, that's that's an absurd notion. And the NCAA knew it. And that's why they came up with this transfer portal because there were there were transfer restrictions and only five sports. Football, men's and women's basketball, baseball and hockey, every other sport you transfer and be eligible right away. But most of the coaches didn't even know that. They just knew it applied in their sport.

And the NCAA is getting killed in court when they're fighting over money. So they made the change. And not one game has been delayed. Not one check has not cleared. Ratings are up. Like, how do we explain that? How do we explain that we said the sky was going to fall and tournament ratings are the highest they've been, I haven't seen what they were for the Elite Eight, but they're

the highest they've been since 1993. And we just had the highest regular season ratings we've had in seven years. So if the sky is falling, why are so many people interested in watching when, I used to love it back when Larry Bird stayed at Indiana State for four years and they never saw him playing, but they liked it. I mean, I love it when people my age say, God, I love watching Larry Bird. Like, come on, man.

You didn't see him play until his senior year. Like stop it. All right. There's a lot here because I do want to touch on all this stuff. There's a lot of acceptance that you have to have like, to me this is about, we've had some of these conversations off the year and I know that I've definitely like evolved with some of these thoughts, but what I realized, what I had to admit was that your thoughts in the past were because of selfish reasons, which is kind of your bird example. It's like, look, I remember when Maurice Claret was fighting

the rules to be eligible for the draft and because I love college football and because And because I love college football and because freshmen are smaller than juniors, I'm like, this is wrong. Now that may be one of those examples of like, hey, it's just even though it's kind of wrong, it might just be better for everybody. And the NFL likes it. And certainly college football likes it because they'll be able to keep all their people with all the different television revenue that's just set records every single time they've gone to the table.

Um, but ultimately like it's still kind of wrong. And once you can kind of accept that, like the transfer portal thing, I used to think, you know, this is just such a huge pain in the ass. What if the guy wants to go somewhere else? He wants to go in conference and you spent this time recruiting him and put these resources into it. But to your point, like if there's only five sports that let it happen, how is it that the five sports are the ones that are the ones that, you know, generate revenue? Although I guess you didn't mention softball,

which I think actually does like some decent TV numbers there. So I don't, I don't know what the softball rules are. The other part, like, Oh, these guys are going to have to re recruit their kids. Okay. Guess what? Like go through the coaches' salary tables, go through those charts. 10 years ago in USA Today, you won't believe go through the coaches' salary tables, go through those charts. 10 years ago in USA Today, you won't believe how low the salaries are. We thought it was a big deal when one guy was making $5 million. Now I think in college football, it's like 40 guys are north of $5 million. And I'm kind of saying that off the top of my head. So there's certain things that I

can say like, oh, wouldn't it just be easier? And then it's like, what am I rooting for? I don't want to root for the NCAA. I don't want to root for the coaches that are so determined to hang on to any bit of control, you know, they used to have like, yeah, it's a free for all. And sir, sometimes I'll hear a rumor about a kid in the NIL and be like, Oh, he's asking for 2 million. It's like, well, who gives a shit? You can ask for 3 million. Like why, why do I care? Somebody who I don't even know? What do I care what he's asking for

in the transfer portal and with all the... So yeah, it's kind of a free for all, but the NCA deserves it as far as I'm concerned. And I don't really have any sympathy. And I think the freedom of movement and being compensated because we know the NIL part of it was the NCAA being like, well, as long as we're not paying for it, somebody else can do it.

It's kind of deflection. I'm more aligned with you now over the last few years. And I don't think I was like a complete old school guy. Like, I think we've worked with some people that played college sports. You know, when Thibaut got up there and was basically yelling at everybody, and like, I liked him, but you knew when he got up on TV and said, no, it should be about this. It should be about the logo in the center of the field. I used to believe a little bit too that the value was in the

Saturday night in Austin or the Saturday night in Ann Arbor or the Saturday night in Tuscaloosa and that it wasn't necessarily the players, but it's like, well, it's just not, that's just an outdated way of looking at all these things. And I think that everyone just has to accept it and stop having hurt feelings about it. Cause I don't know that anybody, to your other bird point, like you're not really offended by anything in particular. You just think that you're supposed to be offended because it's new.

Yeah, I think that's a big part of it is that it's not the way it's always been. Right. And, you know, my thing is always when coaches and administrators talk about, you know, the values of college athletics and the old, that's not what this is supposed to be about. Like, well then do it the way you think it's supposed to be done. But, but honestly too, like think back to the argument, like define what it was supposed to be because it doesn't play anymore. You know what I mean? Like we evolved. Yeah. You know, that's what

I mean. It was, it was outdated then, but everybody accepted it. Yeah. Because we didn't have a choice. And, and so when, when player, when coaches will say, Hey man, when you played, there was loyalty. And I said, but we couldn't go anywhere. So how could you test our loyalty when we couldn't go anywhere? Like we didn't have a choice. And, you know, so they'll say, and look, I think it's well intentioned. I'll have some old school coaches and friends of mine that'll say, I don't think this is good for the players. And I'm going, okay, well, make that case to your players. Like tell them, look, you can leave any time you want. I don't think it's good if you do that. Here's why I think you should stay. Make the case and let the

player decide. Like my thing has always been they were smart enough to choose you. And after being with you, they want to leave. So they were smart enough to choose you in the first place. But they're too freaking dumb to decide they don't like it anymore. And they want to leave. Like what is that all about? Like you can you can make them pitch, hey, man, the grass is not always greener. Okay. After you're done with that, maybe they want to go

somewhere else. And your point about money is really good. Like money and education and money and love of the game are not mutually exclusive. So I hear from people all the time. We'll be talking about another thing and go, hey, you wouldn't believe it. You wouldn't believe what this major player asked us for the other day. Ask us for two million. I'm going, OK, well, is he worth two million? Hell no. Why are you offended by that?

Like if I drove my car into your driveway and said, hey, I want to sell you my car for two million? Hell no. Why are you offended by that? Like if I drove my car into your driveway and said, hey, I want to sell you my car for $2 million, what would you tell me? And I tell you, go off yourself. And I said, well, I don't think you should say that to the player, but say to the player, here's what we've got available to you. Here's the offer we're willing to make. If you can get two million somewhere else, we don't want to stop you from that.

You know, they said, and they'll say, well, we don't wanna stop you from that. You know, they said they, and they'll say, well, we don't even know what the market is. You know what the player's worth to you. So make the offer that's worth it to you. And if there's a counter that's within reason, then you can discuss it. If somebody's asking for this astronomical amount, you know they're not worth,

isn't it just time to move on from that person? Like it's business, It's not that hard. If a coach asked you for an assistant coach is looking at your head coaching position and asked for 10 million a year, you'd say, you need to find another job. We'll get somebody else and pay them our 2.5. You know, you can figure it out. It's not that hard. They know what all these players are worth to them. They know whom to recruit and whom to give a uniform and who to put in the game when they want to win. They know what they these players are worth to them. They know whom to recruit and whom to give a uniform

and who to put in the game when they want to win. They know what they're willing to pay. Yeah, I think I, and I'm not necessarily like pushing back to something you said, it's just the premise of it. It's like, okay, yeah, but, you know, they're younger kids, they're impressionable, they get some of these agents in the NIL world that's, you know, kind of feels like a free-for-all. You hear some of these agents in the NIL world that's kind of feels like a free for all.

You hear some of these numbers and you hear some of the commissions on it and you're like, well, how the hell does that work? Is there anyone else that somebody can talk to? Sometimes you just feel like are all these kids being taken advantage of and then it's easier to sell them on things are going to work out. How many athletes go to a program as a freshman and it's like, oh, this coach is a little different than when he recruited me, you know, like I'm better than this guy and he's getting my minutes. So it's probably really easy to work yourself into a place where you're like, all right, I actually do want to leave, right? And I think

it becomes, maybe it's because players are younger and they're more impressionable, but then it also feels a bit like ageism. Because then I would like offer up the NBA and you'd be like, oh, you mean like all the players in that league that are happy all the time and never want to leave? So there's a lot of times where it feels like we're protecting the youth and it's like, yeah, but they're kind of doing the same thing the adults are doing. And you get me on the contract part of it,

but then I could offer up 10 examples of guys that were under contracts. They were like, yeah, by the way, I did sign the extension and I also don't wanna be here. Because there was- Yeah, you're always gonna have that. Yeah. But I've never been a fan of the,

let's save the young people from themselves. Like, you know, so we'll allow a player and his family to choose their own doctor, but they can't choose their own representative. Like that's outside their realm of possibility. Like they can't choose their own representative. Like that's outside their realm of possibility. Like they can't figure that out. And if all these institutions are so ethical, then what are they worried about?

Like make an offer if the player accepts it, deal with it and take them in, take them under your wing. You've got people all over your campus that can help that player once the player gets on campus. So I'll give you an example of kind of what I'm talking about. So a couple of years ago, Greg Campy at Oakland University has been there 40 years, unbelievable guy, great coach,

invites me up to Detroit for a panel discussion. And it was me, Izzo, Tom Izzo, the head coach of Michigan State, and Blake Corum, the running back from Michigan. And this was right before their championship season. So it's the April before their title season. So at the end of this panel discussion about college athletics and all that stuff, they opened it up for questions. It was at the Detroit Athletic Club, which is magnificent, by the way. But somebody asked Corum, why did you come back for your last

year? And Coram's a really smart and thoughtful person. So he responds and says, I know what I'm supposed to say here. I'm supposed to say that I'm coming back to finish my education, to win a national championship and to win the Heisman Trophy. He goes, all those things are true. I want to do all those. But he also said, but I've had a, I'm paraphrasing a little bit to try to remember, but I'm, I'm, I'm also, I've always had an interest in real estate. And with my NIL, my NIL money, I put together a real estate portfolio and I wanted another year to build up that portfolio before I went into the NFL. And Izzo looked at him like he was resurrected from the dead, you know, that some miracle had happened.

And he says, you know, there's nobody else like you out there. And I'm going, that's not true. Like, he may be on the upper tier of thinkers here, but he's not some unicorn that is financially savvy. And everybody else is an idiot. So many of these players now that they're going through, they're allowed to have access to money, are becoming what I would call financially literate at a young age.

They're building what can be generational wealth for themselves and their families. And like, how is that not a good thing? Will some of them make mistakes and maybe do a deal that doesn't work out in their best interest or make an investment that doesn't work out? Yeah. You know, and somebody would say to me, well, I mean, some of are just going to blow it like, yeah, and they'll wind up exactly where they would have been 10 years ago, which they got nothing. So, yeah, maybe they make a mistake. But, you know, you let players drive, and some of them are gonna get in an accident.

But most of them do just fine driving. And I look at it very much the same way. I'll never forget when all this was being argued. I think it was, it's less than 10 years ago. I hope I'm not forgetting. It kind of felt like a 2016, 17 range of argument where the NCA actually, while they were having their side heard, because you know, I don't know what the, I know you're the lawyer here, so I don't have the technical term for whatever it

was, but the hearings of all this stuff. And there was an NCA argument that it's like, well, yeah, well, we pay these guys. They're just going to waste their money. And I remember thinking like, how fucking detached can you be? How can you actually, like to think that someone's going to go great point. Someone may not spend their compensation in the right way as if the rest of us are the epitome of like financial wizards. It gets back to that age thing where for years you were able to sell it. It's like, oh, it's kids, it's kids, it's kids.

It's like, yeah, they're also people that are worth a lot of money in their workplace. And, um, I just look, there's certain things I may not like. Uh, maybe I won't like the final results five years from now, but there's, you know, if you're being honest, it was, I think it's just things that you have to learn to accept that you're going to have to accept some things you don't like because of right and wrong. Yeah. And if you want to like, I hear the mercenary argument a lot now. Like the players are just mercenaries now. Like, what are you talking about?

It's like saying the coaches are mercenaries because they'll leave a job and go to another one. You know, like Willard did or, you know, all these others. Come on, man. Like if, if you take a player at your school and you want that player to take education seriously, then you make them do it. And if he doesn't do it, you don't give them a uniform on Saturday or whatever day you're playing, you know, like live up to start living up to your rhetoric and living up to your values. You know, it's amazing how Purdue is able

to have a good season and they don't have a lot of transfers on their team. You know, they do it. And if we hated this transfer environment so much, there'd be nowhere for these guys to transfer because nobody would take transfers. You know, they do it the old-fashioned way and build their team up. The truth is they want to win, and they're going to do

what it takes to win. That's number one. I'm not saying that everybody's compromising their values. They're not. But this idea that you can't build a team and have camaraderie and loyalty and all that in a short period of time. Like Duke's got an entirely new team. Kentucky and Louisville got new coaches, entirely new teams and built really good cultures in a year. And Rupp Arena was filled every game. And so was the UM Center at Louisville.

So all of these people who they said were going to turn away are not only not turning away, they're turning toward it. This is an entertainment business. It just has another purpose involved with it and both those things are good things and can be accomplished at the same time. I love that you brought up the ratings as we finish here because it's a sport where you're like, what's this sport going to be? Where does it fit in? I know at least from a daily radio experience, I always thought that was a good test for where we were at, what the priorities were as far as talking points. And it was kind of mirroring some of the other sports. I was like, are they just getting swallowed up into this college and pro football, NBA thing where it's like, if you're doing any of the other topics. So I'm thrilled to see the ratings, but I'm also thrilled to see this ratings bump

during a time where it feels like the loudest voices are telling us the sport's heading in a decline. For it was, I mean, you could look at the chart and say, okay, this doesn't look very good, but to have this kind of spike in the midst of like the peak amount of transition, and I wouldn't even call it controversy but just loud conversation about you know this this Armageddon that's coming.

I just love I just love that you brought that up and that we have those two things happening at the same time. Enjoy the final four man. I can't wait. Neither can I. I think it's going to be fantastic. It's different than we've had in the past. First time since 2008, we've had four number one seeds. But the people losing hair on fire over Cinderella's dead. Cinderella was here last year and the year before. It'll be here next year. But it didn't have its best year this year. It's just one year. We agree. Jay Villas.

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one familiar place from office supplies to IT essentials and maintenance tools. Now let's get to it. Life advice, email address, live advice, rrhemail.com. Maybe we'll forgo the Tuesday check-in because we miss each other so much now on the Tuesday, Thursday deal. Kyle's in New York, just an FYI. Road dog. Hey, what do we got?

What's going on? McDonald's All American Stuff. I think I'm with Tate and I think he's really ready for us to go to San Antonio, where I don't know a bunch of people. I think I just been bringing people into his orbit and I don't know how how jazzy is about it four days in. So how many do you bring down? It's like one or two at a time, but you know, it's been three days of that.

So wait a minute. Wait a minute. What are we talking total numbers here? One, two, three, like six, maybe. but you know, it's been three days of that. So wait a minute, wait a minute. What are we talking total numbers here? One, two, three, like six, maybe. That's not terrible, but it's a work trip. I don't know. They're just popping up though. Guys get excited to see Kyle. I have to confirm that.

Like I like that. That's still a trace. You're the one to drive across the country. I love that you said that. That guy will hear it. I respected it. He just like books some stuff for Chicago and like every time he sends a, he takes a flight,

he sends a picture. He's like, who's afraid to fly now? Like, very good. Nice Chicago flight you got there. Wait, so you have a Chicago live show and the guys are going? No, no, he's like, he's doing like an acting thing where they're shooting in Chicago.

So he's going back and forth, but he's taking all these flights and he's just hammering home that he's not actually afraid to fly anymore. Good for him. That's amazing. How did he get it? Maybe we'll have him on for anybody. Like this is not the time we're flying and so it's like, it's actually really safe about flying the last couple months.

I'm going to get back into flying. All right. Let's see here. How hot do you have to be to run shirtless? Just one off the menu. 6'3", 200 pounds, 225 bench for two. Ivan Maxson's getting that on video. I don't know if you should be posting a video of 225 for two. Maybe. Maybe, maybe. Basketball comp Pascal Siakam can shoot but would prefer to get downhill.

Great vision, can pick up a few assists from the forward spot. I've got a running buddy who's a man rocket, torn up, probably between 10 and 15% body fat, tattoo, sleeve, chest, back, thighs, you get it. When we run, he pops the top off and that feels natural to me. I do not. I'm in shape and I'm a little lankier and I'm sitting at probably 20 percent body fat. It got me thinking, how hot do you have to be to run shirtless? I can assume it feels amazing just based on my past shirtless

experiences. Are there geographical constraints? We're in a big city in Texas, but there's definitely a different criteria in Manhattan. You have to be a good runner. Shirtless selfies attached, just kidding. Thanks for not sending those. Yeah, man, I never really think I've thought about it. Shirts off running. It feels like you know it when you see it,

but maybe there's not a number, you know? I think it's a mindset, really. It's a lifestyle. It's all confidence. I Saw a guy the other day no lie. I was getting groceries driving home and I was like he looks good shirts off He had like a he was hey, he was like Yeah, I mean it was like whatever man. I was like that guy it was like yeah He was kind of hairy but not like too hairy where it was weird. It was like a good look I'm like, yeah, man, it's spring. It's like, you know, it's almost 60 degrees

outside. Like I, I wouldn't do it personally. When I remember playing pickup hoops. I always hated being skins always hated it. Don't know why I've always been kind of skinny. I don't know if it's like a body thing or whatever, but I'm not a no shirt guy. Ryan, on the other hand, will answer the door without a shirt on. So maybe he's the guy to ask. Yeah, I don't understand why people are surprised. I wouldn't have a shirt on in my house. I've never like, why would I have a shirt on? I'm at home. You know what I love doing?

Why would you not have a shirt on though? Like what are you just uncomfortable? Shirts make you uncomfortable. No, I just want to be free. Yeah. just, you know, as soon as you get through the door, the shirt's off. And you know what I love doing is driving around with a shirt off. It just reminds me of being younger. How often would you pull that off, you know, in this phase of life? I did it the other day. You did? Okay.

Okay. Hey, it's a low stakes thing you could do to just, you know, change your whole vibe. It's true. It's just pop it off. That's it. He's here to do that at Beach Community, I feel like though, you know. Yeah. You have an excuse at least.

Do that. I got a couple of looks. It's probably not great. Poughkeepsie is like, you've got to answer questions. So how cold was it in Connecticut when this guy was running with no shirt on? It was probably like high fifties. Good running weather, I'd on. It was probably like high fifties. So good running weather. I'd imagine it was sunny.

One of the first few days we're like, Oh man, spring is like kind of here. So let me ask this. He was husky, right? No, he, he wasn't skinny. He was. He was in good shape. I was decent shape. He looked good.

You know, I don't think he was like ripped or huge or out of shape. He was just like a normal looking dude. And I was like,. He looked good. You know, I don't look like he was like ripped or huge or out of shape He was just like a normal looking dude. And I was like, yeah cool. That's good for you, man It didn't look weird at all. I I couldn't do that Kyle Certainly not I've spent so many years of my life trying to make sure I was on the shirts team and When I did the point where I was like should we talk to someone about getting rid of shirts and skins? I about pennies pennies. Yeah, yeah, can we just keep a bag and some guys truck or something? I don't know So yeah, I'm a shirt on guy for everyone's safety and yeah

I don't know. I think I think sometimes when you cross the line to a guy that shouldn't be shirtless I'm not gonna say it's offensive, but I'm just like what the what the heck man You know, there's some good. It's just well it's just, you know, when you see it, like, I don't think I've ever seen a guy though, where I'm like, you should put a shirt on. No, no, I know. I'm on. I don't know.

In Florida recently, or I'm not saying they're all like ripped and shredded and hot, but. Yeah, the teams are a little more lenient on that, where it's like, yeah, good for you, dude, you know. Side note, I thought they were pronounced pennies when I was a little kid. And then I was in some youth travel team and I said, oh, can I grab a penny? And an older kid was like, what did you call it? You fucking idiot. You know, and I was like, what?

So then it ruined. It was a tough year. That's a reaction. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, older dudes overreact to younger dudes when we're kids. I think I just respect it across the board. So I think if you want to do it, you just go for it. I mean, yeah, there's a few times I would say here in California where you're like, wow, you're really going for it.

But then at the same time, like any reaction I have, like that guy looks terrible, I immediately pivot into good for him. His shirt's off, he's feeling it, he's sweating, he's out there running. So he's doing more than a lot of people are. So there's that part of it. I think if you're really hairy, maybe it's a freeing thing, but at the same time, I would imagine the hair prevents chafing. So if you're just smooth as a baby's bottom, you would maybe want to be shirts off to avoid the chafing stuff. I don't know. I mean, I've never really had that issue. I also hate running. So there's that. But I did have a running phase. And I would run through West Harper Center with a shirt off. That's weird.

Cause the sidewalk is like shopping and families and restaurants and stuff. And now you're like, just slaloming through people. And it's like, you really, and it's, you, you understand, I'm admitting that like you wanted to run through town with your decision. Yeah. So, um, you know, I probably was in between relationships or something. So I felt like, you know, let's just put it out there a little bit as if there was ever going to be anyone that stopped me that I probably was in between relationships or something, so I felt like, you know, let's just put it out there a little bit

as if there was ever gonna be anyone that stopped me that I was interested in that'd be like, hey. Two birds, one stone situation. Like you look so good running with your shirt off by Coci. Let's do something this Thursday. So that was never, and I knew when I laced them up, I'm like, that's not never gonna happen. So yeah, look, I I knew when I laced him up, I'm like, that's never gonna happen. So yeah, look, I think you're probably within the zone. It sounds like you work out, you're into it.

Yeah, I'm 20%. I'm sure some people would be like, that's a little bit on the high side. And if you're running next to Jocko here, full tats at like 10 to 15. If he's at 10%, like I think the difference between 10 and 15% body fat is like significant. It's at least like, it's not, I wouldn't say it's a health thing or your weight thing necessarily, but it is going to be something that looks a lot different. That would just be my guess from 15 to 10, you're going to look like a completely different dude. So if you're running next to that guy, again, bring it back to Jamaica. I remember DJing there, dudes tarps off all the time. There was a jack guy in the crew.

It sucked. And I didn't want to stand next to him. I think somebody even said something like, Hey, I'm going to make sure I stand next to her solo and not that guy. And then that planted the seed to one day be like, you will be jacked one day. Yeah. I never, I never want to be the guy somebody wants to stand next to. If we have an option in the grill.

Um, so yeah, I, I think it's, um, I think guys are pretty supportive. It sounds like guys are, I don't think we're, there's a judgment free zone from the guys. So who are any of us to say, Hey, put a shirt on. Right. I think it, I wouldn't say it. You're right about that. Okay.

All right. Uh, wrongfully paid bonus, five, 10, 200 pounds. No NBA comp, no gym stats, but it'd be a hell of a hang at the frolic. The subject line says it all. I was wrong, wrongfully paid my year-end bonus. I manage a sales team in the alcohol industry. My team works on a 100% commission while I make a reasonable salary and have a few opportunities a year to trigger a bonus. The portfolio represented

is fairly sizable, so most of my reps make more than I do unless I hit my bonuses. That doesn't really bother me as it incentivizes me, or them, to always be looking for opportunity because I don't have the world's most fragile ego. I also came up working in bars and restaurants where the jump to management always means a decrease in pay. I'm came up working in bars and restaurants where the jump to management always means a decrease in pay. I'm sure Ryan can attest. Yeah. I mean, that's always one of the best things about managing a bar.

You're like, cool. Now I make less than everybody that's bartending here and I have all the responsibility. Um, unless you work at a place that is, I remember there's a place I worked at where two of the owners just worked like multiple shifts and then took tips on top of everything else. I didn't necessarily have that much of a problem with it. Some people did. I don't expect you to, you were the average listener.

Oh wait, the bonus is pretty decent I think. I don't have anything to compare it to. It amounts to about 15% of my total salary. If I increase my sales by a certain percentage by the end of the year, classic bonus stuff, don't need to read the numbers. You don't want to, but for reference, I made 68K base, so my year-end bonus is worth about 10 grand. I don't expect you or the average listener to know this, but 2024 was a bit of a doozy

for booze sales. Most of the company was in the red when my team managed to stay just above level. Even so, I missed my target growth by about 40K last year. My team does just over 10 million sales each year. So we're talking pennies. Yeah, I would also throw this out there. I don't know what it is with the younger generation. Maybe they're just smarter than everybody else, but my friends that

own bars in college towns are like, this generation does not drink the way everyone used to always drink. So I don't know. Don't do a lot of things things that like doesn't seem like they have a lot of fun Doing some sort of gas thing, right? I mean Nitrous I don't know what the hell it is, but the galaxy gas I'm seeing it around There's just dudes walking around with like a big thing just why in LA I just have a hard time believing like dudes are walking around Colby right now. Yeah, probably not. You're right. Yeah, I don't know Jen Yeah, just Google this the Gen Z galaxy gas epidemic destroying lives. It's an epidemic now

Okay, isn't an epidemic or was there's just some Instagram videos the kids passing out There's that one that's pretty gnarly what is the one that I think everyone's There's that one that's pretty gnarly. What is Galaxy? The one that I think everyone's seen. Yeah, so that's, that's just, I don't know. Look, you know, we're not trying to help you get, hey, you guys need to pivot, but it is, it is always. Sometimes booze is the answer. That's all I'm saying.

Interesting. No, it's just, it's interesting to hear. Like did, did this younger generation just decide collectively, like we don't want to go to bars and get drunk. It's stupid. Well. And you know, like, I'm just curious. I'm just curious, I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious.

I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious.

I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious.

I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. I't, they're just not as social. They don't go out. They don't talk to like guys, just don't talk to girls the same way. And so there's just not a lot of out, you know, there's not a lot of like partying that goes on. Social lubricant. Yeah.

You know, they're just kind of staying home and playing video games and watching porn, I guess. I don't, not, not, it doesn't seem like the best use of time, but. Did Derek say that? No, I'm just adding the facts. These are the studies. I'm just reading the studies, you know. I love Derek. I absolutely love Derek. Anyway.

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's the pivot for the like, Hey, hanging out alone, DM and people. Have a sixer. So that's probably not the ad campaign you want to run. We need to start getting guys focused on their phones and start drinking alone. All right. All right. Let's see. So we ruined this guy's drinking alone. All right. All right, let's see here. So we ruined this guy's email already, so sorry.

I'm pretty, so he's missing out. Eventually I missed my target growth by 40K. My team does just over 10 million sales. We've read that already, we're talking pennies. I'm pretty pissed. I was pretty pissed, but no use in crying over spilled milk. Time to focus on 2025. That brings us to mid February.

Instead of receiving just my regular salary, I received a second check totaling 15% as a bonus. On one hand, it's not a crazy thought that they were rewarded an employee who managed to stay in the black and did better than 85% of the company. On the other hand, there's been zero acknowledgement or communication from superiors on this.

It's not the most organized company in the world, so I could see it being a mistake, and if the company lost money overall last year, I'm not sure they would be chomping at the bit to hand out unearned bonuses. For the time being, I've moved the money into a separate account, I've not touched it since it was deposited almost six weeks ago.

I'm embarrassed to admit, but I've essentially been living paycheck to paycheck for the last five years or so. Most of my money goes towards credit card debt. I incurred paying for a wedding that never happened. Whoa, dude. Sorry. Anyway, it goes without saying this money would be a massive help and a big step towards being able to breathe again financially. So I have several questions. One, do I say anything to anyone about this? Two, if it goes completely unnoticed, how long do I wait before spending the money? I checked there are no time limits on when a company can ask for their

money back when wrongfully paid. Wow, didn't know that. Three, was it a bad idea? Wait a minute, it's like forever? There's no time limits? Three was- Can we go back to 2008? What the hell? Yeah. Was it a bad idea to write this email on a company issued phone? Probably. It's also worth noting I hate this company and my boss. I'd love to get the gang's input here. Love the pod, love the crew. Sarutti haters can eat shit and kick rocks. Everton's late equalizer in the last Mercy side derby at Goodison.

Yep. Those were words. Was the stuff of dreams. See below for a quick story. When I met Ryan almost 10 years ago, I skipped ahead and saw some of the stuff with dreams below for a quick story. When I met Ryan almost 10 years ago, uh, I skipped ahead and saw some of the stuff there at the end. I'm not going to share your location cause I, I think, you know,

you've shared enough, um, but he did say that he met me and I came up to a bar. And then I asked him if there was a bar that was better. I needed to watch TVs. I remember exactly what it was. It was actually during the day. Uh, and I needed to watch a bunch of games. So they didn't have a, wherever this guy was working, they didn't have enough

options. Okay, boys, I think everybody knows deep down what everybody would do here. Um, so instead of just saying, Hey, keep it, game it out here a little bit. Um, and I expect like most of the emails that we would get saying, you can't do this, you have to give it back would be people that are in management or just the most moral, upstanding members of society. Uh, man, look, it is weird. It is so weird when the money is in your account and then it just, you're mentally

going, well, that's kind of mine. And why wouldn't anyone think that? I think the hesitation I would have if we just talked it all out, if you hadn't told us you hated the place, it sounds like you're not going to be there very long. Um, if you felt like you had a great relationship with management, um, other people that are involved in smaller companies, if you have a great relationship with the people that started the company, whether you want to use the term founders or just the guy that owns the business.

Then, you know, the right thing to do if you wanted the long-term relationship would be to return this. Um, but I think most people can get through the gymnastics of feeling that it's owed to them, even if it isn't, because then you just start to go, wow, you know, there was that time this happened and all these different things. I think most people would lean towards the longer this is in your account, justifying the reasons for why you don't want to go give it back to them. Now, there's also, if you were neutral about the company or whatever, could it pay off much bigger down the road by you returning it and saying, hey, look, you guys gave me 40 grand.

And now that I think about it, it doesn't make sense. The problem is the longer you wait on this, the more evident it's going to be that you went through all of this stuff mentally before you decided. Like, so you're gonna start making a decision here pretty quickly. And the longer you wait, the easier it's gonna be for you to justify it and the harder it's going to be for you to tell them, because they're gonna realize like,

oh, cool, this guy gave it back, but he thought about it for a few months, because clearly based on your paycheck to paycheck thing that you're telling us here, this would be a significant amount of money that you would notice as opposed to maybe somebody that wouldn't notice it. Yeah, for me, I think it would just be,

what's the right amount of time before I just tell myself I'm going to start spending this money? That would be the hardest part for me. It's like, all right, six weeks getting my trigger fingers itching here. So I think I wouldn't even be thinking about giving unless it was like, you know, there was somebody like misplaced a decimal and it was a million dollars. It was like, all right, someone's gonna be looking for this. This is small enough where it's just like, you know, when do I push the button here? I'm certainly not thinking about giving it back.

And I don't think too many companies, I don't think the company would get as much goodwill as you think for being like, oh, here, do you want this money back that maybe you didn't mean to give me this 10th? I just, I don't know how many times that's going to be like, that was the right move that really worked. And that's going to set you up in the future for especially for a dude that hates his company. I'd really just be making a deal with myself. When can I start, you know, paying off this credit card debt or whatever you got to do?

In my case, it would be that as well. You're right. The amount of money is, it's not insignificant, but it's it's it's in, you know, if you said you're doing 10s of millions of dollars right in sales, but it's in, you know, if you said you're doing tens of millions of dollars right in sales, like it's, there's, the issue is they're well within the rights to get the money back. And I don't know. I think I would, I think I would, I think I wouldn't spend it though.

I think I would probably just keep it there and not spend it. Cause at some point point like you never know Until you leave the company like leaving the company. Maybe is when I would start spending the money That's it because I feel like whenever you're there. They're gonna ask Yeah, but you know, I don't know like I do you know, I did Do you know like that management goes through goes through payroll looks for things like this? Or do you think it could actually slide through the cracks? Because I just did a quick Reddit Google search or whatever about legal advice, quote unquote. Basically, everyone was like, yeah, you need to pay the money back, and they can absolutely

ask for it back at any time, and you have to give it to them because it's not your money. They can't defer. It doesn't seem like they could defer your payroll, so they still have to pay you, but you'd have to work out some sort of thing for them to pay it back. But it's like, do you think there's a way that this can really be overlooked? Like did you know if your company goes through line by line in the future looking for stuff like this? And if not, then maybe just kind of sit tight, but I would not spend it soon I would keep it in there and just you know, if you get caught you get caught you can just play dumb

I mean it may be getting caught motherfuckers put it in your account. So I know, but like you can just be like, oh, I just thought there's a thing. It's pretty much understood that you're supposed to have your employer, the company, like you could probably, you know, the tough thing here is what's your rep at work. You know, it's, it's, it's a well written email. So like if you were the consensus dummy at work, which I don't think you are,

you have some plausible deniability here where you could just say like, oh, what? You know, and then everybody would be like, yeah, that makes sense. That guy, I don't know what's going on, but if you're making 60 and you get a bonus for 10 that nobody else got and you knew that you weren't supposed to get it, uh, you know,

I do think that some places would probably tell you that there's somebody working in payroll, like looking for this stuff every now and then. I mean, it, look, it happens, but I just like, so it's not like a lost wallet situation where it's like hey you know thanks here's you know I had 200 bucks my wallet here's a hundred bucks for your good service like that's just not gonna happen in this situation I it doesn't seem like it's either all or nothing and I hope this never happens to me because it sounds like you guys are gonna end up on the right side of

history and I'm like what are you kidding me so I hope I never am in that position. It were specific to you. Like you, you can't do it. Like because of bill, I would hope, right? I'm not asking you to say like, would you steal? But like to me, there's a dynamic there that is different than what this guy is talking about. Um, which also speaks to like, how easy is it to get a new job? Could you get a new job in a similar field, leave, and then just hopefully they, they don't, then you don't have to worry about it. You're out of the company.

Right. That's so funny. You stress so much about this money that you just quit. Well, yeah, yeah. But you, well, you just find another job and then like, you know, then it's like, Hey man, I don't work there anymore. It's not my problem. Then you leave and then somebody calls you from HR

and you're freaking out and they're like, hey, we need your laptop back. Okay. Yeah. I think I know what you're gonna do and I'm not even gonna get on your case about it. I'm not gonna sit here. I try not to be a moralist without any of this stuff.

Cause I think a lot of people are listening and like, dude, just keep it. But I think Saruti may be saying, hey, keep it in an account and don't go out and start buying wide-leg jeans. Today's life advice was brought to you by Amazon Business. It's a good segue. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future.

Learn more about the technology insights and support available at amazonbusiness.com. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Saruti, Wargon, Jonathan Frias. We are a video pod now, so please subscribe and check out our YouTube page, Ryan Russo Podcast, Bring Your Spot. Must be 21 and older, present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut or visit md gambling help dot org in Maryland hope is here visit gambling help line ma dot org or call 800-327-5050 for 24 seven support massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text hope ny in New York.