The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Jon Anik on Porier vs. McGregor. Plus, NBA Thoughts and Radiohead’s ‘Kid A’ With Steven Hyden.

Episode Date: January 27, 2021

Russillo shares some thoughts on the Nets, Hawks, and Bradley Beal in the latest edition of the Flagrant 3 (1:30) before talking with UFC’s Jon Anik about UFC 257, Conor McGregor’s loss to Dustin Porier, Michael Chandler’s post-fight comments, an update on the UFC’s Fight Island in Abu Dhabi, and more (13:00). Then Ryen talks with author Steven Hyden about his new book, ‘This Isn't Happening: Radiohead's "Kid A" and the Beginning of the 21st Century’ (43:00). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:20:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

welcome to the ryan rossillo podcast ringer and spotify today on the pod we're going to talk ufc with the voice of the ufc john annick good friend of the podcast we're gonna do a little life advice in the back end the flagrant three makes its return. Some NBA headlines for you. But I'm really excited about this. Steven Hyden, the author of a book about Radiohead and Kid A. And we're going to do all that today. This week's Flagrant 3. First off, the Brooklyn Nets. We're going to be talking about these guys a lot.

That makes sense. And I've been watching them pretty extensively. I think I've caught, yeah, I think I've caught every one of the games, both Miami games, Cleveland games. You got Orlando, that win, the Milwaukee win. So let's look at some numbers here. All right, Brooklyn offensively is number four in the NBA, number 20 defensively in the NBA.

All right, so that makes sense. Okay, but how does that change in the last six games with James Harden? Because we're going to get some of these Harden numbers here as well that are important. And then there's one number that kind of sums it all up. All right. So the last six with Harden, they're also number four in offense and they're about the same number, but they're number 24 in defense and they're about four points worse. All right. And that makes sense because if you watch them, whether it was Cleveland or Colin Sexton, and I'll admit I was guilty of that too. It was so much about Harden and the new look Nets that I honestly did not give Colin Sexton nearly enough love. I didn't give him any because I just was too focused kind of on the headlining part of it. But Colin Sexton has looked

terrific. He looked good again in the Lakers game. And I know this isn't new, but as I have tried to preach now for a couple of years, and I think this year is more important than any of those years that just don't fall in love with some of these guys that are putting up these big numbers. Cause we've never had more of them. We just haven't. And then I want to like see different things, but there's some stuff that Sexton does and the, that ballsiness to his game. He had a drive against Anthony Davis. He went right into him. Davis bounced off him and then Sexton finished on the right side of the rim. And I was like, whoa. I mean, forget the 20 straight that he had

against the Nets in that rematch, too, and the comeback. I mean, Sexton is putting up some really impressive performances that go beyond just, hey, I'm scoring a lot, because there are teams that are just bad, and there's a guy that'll have the basketball a lot, and then that guy's just going to score a ton of points.

And then we can be kind of tricked into thinking, like, who is he? But there's parts of Sexton's game more and more is confidence. This approach is kind of that that cool stuff that we all like where I've been really impressed with that. All right. So back to the Brooklyn part of it.

So, yes, they've dipped defensively. I don't know which of the Miami games you watch where the BAM goes for 40 or then in the rematch where it was actually somewhat of a close game where I'm watching the Nets again. And I'm thinking

this is a layup line against them. I mean, they got nothing there right now to impede you from this, whether it's Jeff Green, whether it's Reggie Perry, who probably isn't playing in a normal situation. They just don't have a lot of bodies out there. I was looking at the injury report, like that big kid Claxton out of Georgia, who, you know, he's kind of a really weird fit of a player because he's so big, but he kind of wants to be a perimeter guy.

I don't think that's going to solve any problems. We heard about the JaVale McGee rumors. There's going to be somebody because they have the disabled player exception that they were approved for. I think it's around $6 million. So there's going to be some piece that they put in there to try to give you some kind of rim protection. But as I'm watching it, I'm going, wait, I'm supposed to pick them to come out of the East? I mean, look, if Brooklyn comes out of the East and faces the Lakers, let's say they're in the NBA Finals, and it's a JaVale McGee type, some kind of

add-on that's somebody that's big on another team that nobody really wants. I think we all know who we're going to pick in that one. So as I'm watching that second Miami game, I'm like, this is legitimately bad. And then the fourth quarter happens. And

the fourth quarter numbers for the Nets with Harden are insane right now. Their offense is not just the number one offense in the NBA in the fourth quarter. And again, it's just six games. But they're at 134 points per 100 possessions. Now, I don't always love when writers will say, okay, well, 112 or 117 is the all-time mark. It keeps going up and up here as far as the newer numbers. But 134 is bit later. Milwaukee's number one is like 117, but that's an absolutely staggering number. And that's kind of the point is that I'm coming to, I wouldn't call it a conclusion, but the nights I watched the Nets struggle on defense, I'm starting to wonder, hey, maybe it's not going to matter. Maybe it's going to be that good with these three guys that aren't just scorers, but are three of the best finishers the game has ever seen. Now, yes, there's the Kyrie element. Do you want to bet on that being stable all year?

I don't. There's the Harden element of all the little things. Are you going to do those little winning things? What are you going to be like in the playoffs? Are you going to stand there in space when you're not involved in the play? Harden is such a terrific playmaker a part of his game that doesn't get enough credit because I think the other parts do get too much credit and it was funny because I was looking at some people you know looking at Nets fans reacting to Harden's game and it's just always a bit of a reminder how many games sometimes people can miss and not really lock in the same way when it's not your player or your team. And be like, man, Harden can really pass. Yes, he can really pass.

He's always been this. Going all the way back to the original three that they had in Oklahoma City, where Brooks trusted Harden to initiate the stuff in playoff games more so than Westbrook because Harden is a better passer than Westbrook. And Harden has also, since his last full normal season, so we're not starting at last year. Let's go back two years. Harden's usage rate was around 40. I think it led the league. He's at 25 this season, and that's after a mail-in few weeks

with the Houston Rockets where he looked about as interested as a cocktail waitress does when you tell her about her 401k. All right? So Harden's usage is down. He is taking less shots. They are bad on defense. They're worse with Harden's usage is down. He is taking less shots. They are bad on defense.

They're worse with Harden on defense. And they're also worse with Harden because they don't have Jared Allen. So it's not even a direct correlation to Harden, although Harden's going to have his moments where it's just, you know, you're like, okay, you're just not super locked in right now. We got it. But their offense is so good that it may... I don't want to say I'm convinced of it,

but it's just something to think about. Bradley Beal. I always like to keep track of my miserable index. All NBA first team miserable. Cousins has been the captain of it for a long time. And honestly, he's locked that one up again this year. I know he had a ton of points in that Wizards-Houston game last night, which was really weird.

Wall and Oladipo get together for the first time. And Bradley Beal, at this point, it has to be in consideration for first team all-miss. He is absolutely miserable out there. And whether that's playing with Westbrook and now there's the, hey, Westbrook's hurt thing. I think we saw the number that was going around last night that Westbrook has 163 points on 163 shots. Listening to the Wizards broadcast, because sometimes I'll jump back and forth. I was checking out some of the Wizards. Just a different vibe around that team as they continue to lose all these games.

They also have missed more games. I think they had 12 games compared to 18 games for other teams, looking at some of the standing stuff the other day. So they've had a bad run of it. We know that the team isn't very good, but still with Beal and Westbrook, you would have thought at least I would have. And I made a clear mistake on that, that they're at least competing for the backend of a playoff seed in the

East. That's probably not even a 500 team. Like you would think so, right? No, not even close. They're terrible. Here's some of Beal's numbers in the East that's probably not even a 500 team. Like you would think so, right? No, not even close. They're terrible. Here's some of Beal's numbers. In the previous four games going into last night, the most 25-point games to start a

season since 1985. That's a very important number. Beal's at 12. Jordan's at 16. Wilt, by the way, did it for an entire season in 61 and 62 with 80. 80 games at 25 and more points. So we know that Beal's putting up the numbers. But when I have checked out what they're doing at times,

because Beal's been on an absolute tear, there's just still going to be Westbrook plays in there. And Westbrook had a forced, he got into it with Wall. Him going one or two for the free throws, that was the biggest lock of the world that he was going to miss one of those free throws. I don't know what he and Wall were yelling about that entire time, but I almost wonder if Wizards fans are like,

hey, can we actually have John Wall back? Is there any chance of doing that? Last game I'm going to get to because it was the only game. That is light, light schedule last night. The Clippers losing against the Atlanta Hawks. All right. The Clippers didn't play Kawhi, Paul, George, Pat, Beverly.

So, okay, there you go. Terrence Mann had a brutal night against Trey Young where Trey was doing his stuff. The one that really bothers me the most about the Trey deal is going over the top of the screen and following him jumping back into you. He did it to Mann a bunch of different times to the point where they had to take Terrence Mann off of him and put Reggie Jackson back on him. So that's the one because there's a bunch of arguments. Hey, basketball move. Hey, look, if you like all the little bullshit and stuff that sucks, go ahead. Cool. Awesome. Because I don't like any of it. I don't like any of it for any player, for any team. Chris Paul's one of my favorite guys. I hate that he actually would ever be rewarded more than once

for stopping in transition and getting run over by a big guy. It's stupid. You could just not call it and then no one would do it. Problem solved. But apparently nobody ever wants to get to that point. All right, rant over. Sorry, because I'll keep going. So good win for Atlanta. I want to get to the positive here for Atlanta for a second, because there's a couple of things going on. Not that they beat the Clippers without their guys. I'm not going to start sitting here and be like, hey, you know, print the shirts, Atlanta Hawks, they beat the Clippers without all their best players. But the Clippers have the second best offense in the league, but going into last night's game over the last seven, the best offense in the NBA throughout this entire stretch where they were the two seed before their loss last night in Utah's comeback against the Knicks. Let's look at some of the Atlanta numbers because we know the Clippers offensively are two. Defensively, the Clippers are 14th, so not exactly where you'd want to be, but their net rating on the season because of that offense, they're a top-five team.

But Atlanta is 10th in net rating. How is that happening? Well, it's an offensive team, right? They're bad on defense. They used to be. They're actually middle of the pack this year offensively. They're much better defensively. They're seventh on defense right now.

They were 28th last season, and it's not Danilo Gallinari. It's not just the Rondo minutes. It's this combination of bigs where they'll play Capella, they'll play Collins. And really the best story for Atlanta this year has been DeAndre Hunter, last year's lottery pick. You remember him out of Virginia, a little bit older, goes fourth overall. And he was bad last season. He shot threes okay, so it kind of hid the fact that he actually,

for the most part, didn't do a ton else, didn't look real comfortable. The advanced numbers for him were terrible. And this year, he's a different guy. The advanced numbers are to the point where he's a pretty good player. He's hitting 38% of his threes. He's at 18 a game. He's getting you some boards. He's getting to the free throw line more.

You can play him in kind of multiple positions. You expect him to compete defensively. So he has been the single best story for this Atlanta team. I think just because now you're like, wait, you know, is Cam Reddish going to be anything? Is DeAndre Hunter going to be anything? Like we have a bunch of these younger guys. We still have to get herder minutes, but now we're bringing over Dino Gallinari.

Now we've got Bogdanovich. Like who's going to get stunned? You know, the better players just find a way. They find a way and Hunter has found a way here through the short part of the season. The point is, it's just an Atlanta team. He never felt like had a chance defensively. He's competing probably a lot better than you thought.

He's the voice of the UFC, and he's my friend. It's John Anik coming off of UFC 257. All right, let's just get to it. Poirier wins the rematch against Conor. You call it from the octagon. You're in after the knockout. What happened? Well, I mean, I think Dustin fought a near-perfect fight.

I mean, there were a couple instances where Conor McGregor caught him. There was a left hand, and then one of those shoulder strikes to the nose. I've said this a lot since the fight, but a millimeter one way or the other could shatter his nose and change the whole complexion of the fight.

But Conor, I think, was talking a lot about rust. And I do think inactivity counts for something in this equation. But I do believe now, all of a sudden, if these guys were to fight 10 times, the odds makers and the general public would seem to think it would be a closer series. I mean, Conor swelled to minus 350 in some parts, which I think is insane, obviously, in retrospect. But this calf kick was the big part of this fight. And you need to figure out a way to defend it if you're Conor, even if you're fighting a southpaw. But I think to prepare for a fellow striker, and that's a general way to refer to Dustin Poirier. But in 2021, if you're preparing for another striker, you got to figure out a way to account for the calf kick. And oftentimes all it takes is one to change the whole fight. But that's what affected Conor.

Mike Brown, head coach for Dustin Poirier, knew it was going to be a big factor in the fight. And Poirier has a great gas tank. That is his number one biggest strength. And he didn't even have to use it because he was able to get him out of there. So all hail Dustin Poirier. And they should crown him because he feels a lot like the uncrowned champion right now. I thought Conor looked great in the first round. I thought he had the distance down. I thought he was mixing up his angles really well, and it looked like a guy that was going to be able to close it out

and win the rematch. And then all of a sudden, this calf, you're like, wait, what's going on? Did you see the initial one that basically changed the fight? Well, I mean, it's hard to pinpoint one per se. If you look at the last minute of round one and the first minute of round two, he doesn't miss, right? Just the accuracy right on that muscle. And, you know, when you're trying to check it, right, you're trying to have the bone

on your leg hit the bone on the other side. And Conor, even when he was raising his leg as if to check it, was not effectively doing that. And Dustin was digging into that muscle. So all it takes is a few. I mean, Ryan Russo has been lifting legs since I can remember in 2001, okay? There's nothing you can do. I mean, you can try to condition this a little bit. The philosophy has to be you can't absorb one of these in a championship fight or otherwise. Because if you do, you can't absorb one of these in a championship fight or otherwise, because if you do, you may not be able to fight on it. Don't watch Dustin Poirier

against Jim Miller. Almost lost the fight because he was on one leg. It's incredible to me. And I love that Connor wants the rematch right now or the trilogy fight right now. But priority number one has to be to not let him tee up that muscle on the calf because you can be short for you. See what I would do if I'm Connor is just calf kick the hell out of him. You know, easier said than done. But in the trilogy fight, you got to turn the tide on him. You have to. So the checking of kicks, I actually love this stuff.

And I'll admit, you know, I'm certainly not at your level of understanding it, but it is a sort of it's almost like a camp philosophy, right? Like different people, different camps will say, this is what we do with kicks. And some people go to check it and some people don't. Can you expand and give us more detail on what that means? Well, some coaches don't check leg kicks, right? They're like, Hey, welcome to a Rick Littles gym in Seattle. You're not going to fucking check any leg kicks. We're just going to sort of ignore that. But you know know, this has been a trend in modern day mixed martial arts. A lot of striking coaches will tell you when people used to attack that part of the leg in training, people would like laugh it off. You're wearing shin pads in training, right?

And if you go online, there's all sorts of different videos of people like kicking their shin into a fucking steel bar. Yeah, right. Deaden all the nerves. Yeah. Right. So there's only- I tried, trying to like... Yeah, right. Deaden all the nerves. Yeah. Yeah, right. So there's only... I tried it for a summer. Yeah, right. But I mean, for years, we saw people attack the upper leg.

But now a Benson Henderson really was probably the first one that a lot of us saw, maybe 2011, 2012, to really attack that lower part of the leg. And I'm not the analytics guy, right? I'm not the former pro fighter, but obviously you can check it, which essentially means raising your leg and trying to meet it, or you can ignore it. But again, I just really feel like it's something

that the McGregor corner, and Jon Kavanaugh, his head coach has owned it, but they needed to address it. And they said they expected it in the fight. They were expecting that Dustin was gonna throw it, but they didn't think it would And they said they expected it in the fight. They were expecting that Dustin was going to throw it, but they didn't think it would have that type of impact. And, you know, perhaps that speaks to the inactivity. So the inactivity was a big part of what Conor was saying after the fact.

I know you like Conor, and Conor's now become somebody, for a bunch of reasons of his own doing, where if somebody wants to say, hey, I just don't like that guy for a bunch of different, I'm not going to tell somebody they're wrong, all right? I mean, Conor's brought it on himself. I still look at fighting as I expect you to be a fighter and the other guy to be a fighter. And that, that's, that's what you are to me.

Um, and that can sound simplistic and distant, but that's just kind of the way I look at any of this stuff. All right. But I know you like him. And when you were talking to him after the fact, and he kept talking about the inactivity and break down the schedule, because when you really look at it, you're like, man, this guy has just not fought

very much recently. It felt sincere. I felt like watching you talk to him that you believed him, where other guys would use it as an excuse, and I'm sure people that hate Conor are like, oh, whatever, yeah, you get kicked, and now you're down and get your ass kicked,

so now it's because of inactivity. Help me understand that and kind of what you think is true about what that meant to him as he led up to this fight. Well, I'm not sure that in a three month span, he can, I mean, he can certainly knock Dustin Poirier out, right? But I'm not sure in a three month span, they're going to be able to completely address this weapon. And there's a whole lot more to the Dustin Poirier package than just the calf kick. But Conor McGregor did not compete at all in mixed martial arts in 2017 and 2019. His best division is 155 pounds lightweight. And he's one and two now in the UFC in this weight class after the loss to Dustin Poirier,

right? He'd be moving up to 170 pounds to take on Nate Diaz. All of his early days in the UFC were at featherweight. He goes on to win the featherweight title, then wins the lightweight title. Didn't defend either belt for reasons like Floyd Mayweather or other reasons, monetary reasons, whatever it is. Yeah. I mean, look, when you do six and a half million pay-per-view buys, I think in two countries for the Floyd deal, like, you know, I mean, it's worth it to not get your head elbowed in by the eighth ranked guy in your class, because that's what can happen. Well, and forget getting knocked out.

How about just cutting the weight, right? Like, do people think it's easy for Connor to make championship weight with his degree of body fat? You know, he put in 10 very hard weeks in Portugal and a few weeks in Ireland, and then a week and a half in Dubai, all with the intention of putting his best foot forward and making championship weight when he has, I don't know, a quarter of a billion dollars or whatever the hell he has in the bank and plenty more coming with his proper 12 Irish whiskey and everything else. He's back for legacy, right? He's back because he was one in one at lightweight in the UFC, and he is not going to enjoy feet up in retirement if he doesn't

build his MMA legacy. So I love that he's back. I love his attitude. You can argue that being so gracious with the media and giving every last person his time and having his children there and fighting early in the morning is a recipe for disaster. But it always sounds like I'm making excuses for Conor

because the promotion cuts my paycheck. I mean, I couldn't be happier for Dustin Poirier, signature win for him. But there was a lot working against Conor because the promotion cuts my paycheck. I mean, I couldn't be happier for Dustin Poirier, a signature win for him, but there was a lot working against Conor. And sometimes I think it's hard to just be mean and nasty when you got your kids around at the W Hotel. So I think there were a lot of reasons why Dustin Poirier won, chief among them, everything he did well in the fight. But I think you'll see a different Conor McGregor if indeed they do the trilogy next. Even though there's so many of us that love the UFC, I still think'll see a different Conor McGregor if indeed they do the trilogy next. Even though there's so many of us that love the UFC, I still think people have a hard time understanding really what it is.

And I'll use a football analogy with this. But I mean, anytime you're talking about warriors are going to battle, then people can get sensitive about, well, that's not really what's happening because there are people overseas. And it's like, OK, all right, look, we get that. We get what we're talking about here. Let's not argue about semantics. But when I, you know, have a guy like Chris Long who comes on the podcast, you get to know him and you say like, this dude has to hype himself out to come running out of a tunnel to ram into another 300 pound man for three hours. And if you don't think you're getting a little fucking medieval in your head for those three hours, then you don't understand the job and you can pretend it's something that it isn't,

but that's just not the reality of it. And when it comes to fighting, I think there's even more of a misunderstanding because Poirier and McGregor leading up to it, were actually very gracious towards each other. The, the way in was, was actually like very amicable. And then people were like, Oh, Poirier is being too nice. His camp is worried about all this stuff. And I was reading all of these different things. Like, Oh, like, do you not understand that these guys know what they've signed up for? That these guys like, yes, there's some high end and low end mental toughness people, even in the UFC. But if you're at this level, like, don't worry about what I'm doing. Don't worry about how I'm dressed, how I'm fucking talking. If I'm smiling too much. Ooh, I'm so mad and angry. Oh,

that guy's really ready for it. I just don't think people enough people really get that. it. I just don't think people, enough people really get that there's, there's a wiring that so many people don't have that they have a hard time like comprehending like, Oh wait, they just went in and did all this stuff. Like, Oh, they aren't as freaked out about it as you are. Right? No, that's true. And they're not as freaked out about it as I am. Right. When these main events are about to start, I'm not anxious for the call of the fight. I'm anxious because of the magnitude of the sporting event and that I'm getting closure in this fight that I've been hyping in my mind for months, not unlike a Super Bowl. But you're absolutely right. I mean, I found this to be refreshing with these two in particular, that they were amicable. And obviously,

Conor McGregor, as is well documented, is making a $500,000 donation to Dustin Poirier's Good Fight Foundation. But bro, I love heat, okay? So I can understand why fans maybe don't like everyone to be buddy-buddy. I mean, there's nothing worse than the pre-Round 3 hug, right? They've just fought 10 hugs. And then right before Round 3, you're going to fucking hug because now the clock says 4.51 and you're still down two rounds to not. Right. So I'm glad you got your fucking hugging. Right. But I prefer heat. Like when Kamaru Usman is fighting Colby Covington, bro, and I'm getting ready to call that championship fight and they hate each other. There's nothing like it. So I prefer heat just like the fans do. But every now and again, I think this is nice.

And I think you just have to take each fight singularly. And Poirier was obviously not in the emotional place to beat Conor McGregor in 2014. He sure as hell was on Saturday night. Yeah, I loved Poirier after the fact. He's like, you know, everybody that was worried about me, like, who cares? And then they were like, what do you think Khabib thinks?

And he's like, what? Like, what am I supposed to to do and dana was i watched all the post-game stuff and i actually really enjoy dana in that moment i think he's as good as anyone he just where he's like yep this is what we're doing whatever no that's stupid like let's go i mean i know it turns people off i i'd love it imagine goodell doing something like that like yeah not a great game uh here's what we got but dana was big on the khabib thing where he kept being like, yeah, we talked to him. We talked to him. Then he essentially was saying that Khabib was dumping on both fighters being like, this is embarrassing for me to even think about fighting these two guys. So give me that whole storyline here, because you're right. Conor immediately wants to fight again, which is, I think you have to

respect that part of it. Cause there's a lot of guys that would start looking at the other side of their career. So as a lot of your audience may know, Khabib Nurmagomedov retired at 29 and 0 in October. And he said to me in the Octagon after the fact that that was his mother's wish that he retired because his father, Abdulmanap, who was his chief corner, uh, passed away, uh, due to COVID and other things. And, uh, he did not have his mother's blessing to compete on. So he said, all right, mom, give me closure. I'm going to fight this one and then I'll shut it down. And some people say, oh, how can you stop one short of 30-0?

I mean, what's the difference 29-0 versus 30-0? I think Dana White is focused on the competitive itch that he perceives Khabib Nurmagomedov to still have. So as a promoter, you can understand why he's going to go down that road repeatedly before there's a vacating of the title. I don't think you want to rush an all-time great like Khabib out the door.

So I think Dane is kind of biding his time. But now you have a situation where Dustin Poirier has done enough to be the undisputed champion, right? He fought Khabib, and now he has since beaten two guys in the top five, and spectacularly, right? A five-round fight of the yearisputed champion, right? He fought Khabib and now he has since beaten two guys in the top five and spectacularly, right? A five round fight of the year against Dan Hooker. And now he is the first in the UFC to knock out Conor McGregor like that. So now you kind of need to sort of piss or get off the pot.

And I hate to use that language when talking about Khabib, but you know, this is the most competitive division in the UFC, Ryan, you know that, I mean, there are a million guys who are lined up. I mean, we got to move this thing along and Dustin is ready to do that, provided you crown him and make him the undisputed champion. So, you know, I think they'll move things forward. And I do believe eventually we'll see Khabib. I've said like in 36 months, you might see him, but I don't think you're going to see him in 2021. I really don't. Yeah. If he comes back, that's the least surprising thing ever. I mean, there's nothing less set in stone than a fighter's retirement.

So I guess I'd still be a little shocked, but I felt like Dana was, it was cool that Dana was sharing that with all of us. They were like, hey, what's going on? And he was like, look, I was talking to him tonight. I was with him, you know, and he just was kind of over this whole thing. You did bring up something that I really liked about kind of the back and forth we were talking about the heat though Michael Chandler with the great knockout against Hooker and you're like whoa look at this guy his interview after the fact where he goes you know what I don't need and for

those that didn't see Chandler he's new on the scene I mean he went up against I mean you guys were talking up Hooker big before that not to say like hey you guys got it wrong but it's not like he knocked out some clown here at all I I mean, Hooker was he was the higher ranked, obviously, in division. Correct. Just check. Yeah. I mean, Dan Hooker is one of the toughest dudes I've ever seen in the UFC. Yeah. Top five. OK, so there we go. And Chandler says, hey, you know, this whole hug and kiss shit after I get knocked out or you get knocked out. Is it can you just can you just get the fuck off of me? And I watch I was like, I love this because because honestly i think a lot of that stuff's fake i think a lot of it is it's almost

demeaning to the opponent you knock them out and then you're immediately hugging them and all over them and you're kissing the top of their forehead and like the corners trying to like towel you down and then you're on your ass like waving at him trying to be like yeah and you're on your ass, like waving at him, trying to be like, yeah. And you're on outer space anyway. And then it's really, I actually think it's a bit more for the winner to be like, look how awesome I am. And now I'm like patting you like a dog that's been lost. And for Chandler to say, that's my least favorite thing ever about the fight game. I loved it. Yeah.

I mean, you set it up well, right? Like mixed martial arts. It is the land of the sportsman, right? I mean, everything's rooted in respect. So a lot of these guys, as soon as they submit somebody, their natural instinct is to be a sportsman. But can we please stop like choking a guy out, right? You shatter his championship dreams

and then you pick him up and loft him in the air for everybody to look at him. It's like, dude, put me down. I am monumentally disappointed in this moment. Can you fucking put me down? So to see a high profile athlete like Michael Chandler take the podium and say, you know, I'm not going to console my opponent after a loss because the last thing he wants is me like rubbing his face right now.

So hopefully this will affect change a little bit. And I know a lot of people pay attention when Chandler talks. So maybe this will affect change. It's not going to because you're right about the respect part of it. I mean, it really is. I mean, not to get back to senseis and whatnot, but you know, there is an element of this for people that are in this world that, you know, that's, that's part of it. And that part of it's kind of cool. I just wonder if we're ever going to see a guy like, say you're choked out and then you come to, and the guy's all over you and you just start wailing on him and he's not expecting it. You know, like that would be, I know it's not really what we want here, but I can't help, but think it would be the funniest thing ever. If the guy that was just tapped out comes to,

and the guy's all over him and he doesn't really like him anyway. And then he just knocks him out because his guard isn't up and then you're like okay so now we have to do what here i mean obviously you lost the fight but then you just knocked the guy out because you were mad at him i know it's probably never going to happen but we've certainly seen guys get knocked out and then another shot like wakes him back up and then they like double leg the referee which i'm sure you know um but yeah hopefully one day we see something like that so fight island me how many times have you been now? So I actually have been four times because I, you know, promotionally they did three runs,

but I went and came back in between shows one time because I have children and it was a five week gap or whatever it was. So that hotel, the W Hotel, Yaz Island Abu Dhabi is the most intoxicating, indescribable hotel in the world. There's just something special about it. The hospitality is obviously world-class, but the attention to detail, I mean, they're hawking your social media and putting touches sort of in your room. I mean, I made a joke about the burger in my Instagram story. I get a call

from the kitchen that's like, what was wrong with the burger? We got a piece of beef that's been braising six hours. Would you like us to bring you that? And I was just saying, I don't know what the burger is, but if someone on the crew wants to eat one in front of me and choke it down, I'll give anyone a hundred bucks to choke it down. And obviously they did not like that. So it was a bad burger? Yeah, I don't know what it is. Stay away from the burger. I'm afraid on a show as ingested as yours to even talk about the burger again, but no, it's an incredible experience. And what the UFC has done, this Etihad Arena,

it wasn't ready for UFC 254 in October because it's brand new. It's just incredible what they've done. And not unlike Vegas, where things go up quickly. You saw how quickly the Raiders Stadium went up. These people can just put up state-of-the-art architecture in a blank. It's absolutely incredible. And I used to not want to go. And now it's like, I can't wait to get on a plane for 16 hours to go to Flat Island. What's it like walking outside right now, especially with everything going on? So we had a little bit of our freedom

strip this past time. So the prior iterations, we could get on these rented bicycles and at least go several miles around and get out. Now we couldn't go off the property. So if I'm running, I'm literally running like down a hill to the security guard and back up the hill. So it was limiting this time around. And I think that's because now it's open to the public. So like there's this F1 racetrack that sits on the backdrop of the hotel, and now that's open to the public. So the first few times the 9.6 square mile Island was completely closed off to the public golf course was only us, you know, not that I played, some of us have work to do, you know, tell my analysts, I was in my room working,

but, uh, you know, it was a little bit different this time around. It was more strict, no golf clubs, no bikes, no, none of that. But, uh, it's all about the fights, honestly, when we're there and there's enough for me to keep my mind busy. Who's even there, though, in a normal setting? Have you been there for, not Fight Island necessarily, but you've been there before, right? Yes. So I did one of Khabib's fights there October of 2019 when it was a regular crowd. And, you know, you still feel pretty isolated on this Yaz Island. A lot of our crew went to Dubai, which is about an hour away, which is supposedly

one of the most incredible places in the world. So you haven't been to Dubai? I have not. Okay. Again, you know, too much work for the play-by-play guy, but everybody else, you know, have fun, have fun. Well, life of the play-by-play guy, it sucks for you. So with a mustache, were you not on enough watch lists? So, you know, it's amazing that people think it's kind of a big deal You know, my beard is white. My mustache is black. That's really the big part of it But I got to be in shape to uh, you can't outrun a bad diet, right? So I have to be in shape to wear this mustache on television

Um got to be like 152 pounds and not 160 But no, my dad had a mustache growing up, you know, not that we're super tight But I just uh, I don't know it wasn't a big deal in the 70ies and eighties, but it seems to be a big deal now. As long as Dana White doesn't think it's a big deal. And as yet he doesn't, uh, I think we're good to go. He hasn't said anything to you about it. He's definitely said something. Come on. No, I, because the thing is, is I got reprimanded, uh, pretty sternly for, uh, an overgrown beard in 2014. So what your beard right now is about as far as I could go. They don't want their play-by-play guy wearing a super thick beard.

And I don't love the split screens of me and Dr. Phil. That's not what I'm looking to get off the air to see all over Twitter. Do I look like Dr. Phil? Oh my God, yeah. We may have to put something up. We're just trying to be confident on TV, and the mustache gives us confidence right now. I was so early on the beard thing.

I still think there's a couple things. One, if you haven't ever worked outside, after a year, you should have to shave your beard. If you're not driving a tractor, if you're not hauling brick pallets or whatever.'m just a hauling brick pallets or whatever like i just think after after a year like the rest of these guys like they're ruining it for the rest of us and then i had a beard for the oregon auburn national title game because i don't know what i was doing because nobody was doing it yeah i just let it go it might have been a hair loss thing

i had a another friend who it was kind of a dick thing to say it was actually it was josh elliott who was it was a sports center anchor we were hanging out back then and he was like straight up compensation beard and i went hey you know what like you know sorry dan rather you know but yeah like i'm going for something here because i was never really all that clean shaven i used to love doing the handlebars back in the day yeah and i showed up to the title game with this just pretty thick beard, thicker than what I have right now. And I'm never clean shaven anymore. And McShay was with Jesse Palmer. And they both looked at me like,

we can't believe you showed up with that beard. Right? And then I was starting to hear about it a little bit, like being on TV. And then there were some guys being like, what's up with the neck thing? Does he not realize he's on SportsCenter? Like what's going on?

And you know what? Those complaints were right. But then it just sort of took off. I'm like, wait a minute. Everybody's got it now. So it was to the point 10 years ago where people were like, I can't believe you showed up to a broadcast for a national championship game. I wasn't even on TV. I was just standing on the sideline. They're like, we can't believe you showed up looking like this. And I was like, I think I look good. So I don't know what to tell you. You do look good. Exactly. And if you and I don't shave the neck, right, because that you're not trying to that part

of the beard thing is we're not trying to groom the beard. Just kind of let it go. Let the neck go. People groom it. I think you got to sometimes my neck thing. I'm like, hey, what are we doing here? Like, let's go. And I'll notice that I think it's a little aggressive.

But yeah, there's another level. Like then there's a David Ortiz trimming where I go. Yeah, I'm not. I can't do that. I can't do that. Well, Charlie Steiner was obviously the guy, right. And there weren't a lot of Caucasian anchors at ESPN wearing beards. Like in 2007, I tried to do a little beard, right. For on ESPN. Oh, seven, forget it. Oh my gosh. On ESPN.com. What are you doing? You know? Um, but by 2009, it had softened a little bit, you know, and for MMAma live because it was mixed martial arts they let me get away with it you know we're all sometimes you get away the redheaded

stepchild gets away with things you know like we like it he's no but that's how tv can work sometimes like oh we like we liked it you know mma yeah like you may not be employed other than this digital show yeah that's all right Crash his car last week. Oh, man. Okay, so I have a couple closing because I want to ask about the next big thing. I feel like Overeem. I swear to God, he fights every other week. I've seen him live.

There's just random times like, hey, tonight I'm getting the fights, getting like Overeem again. And then I'm jinxed him because I think he loses every time I watch him. But I know that's the next one coming up. That's not really what I want to talk about. I do want to talk one more topic

about Conor and that is, as we mentioned before, Conor has done things and certainly some of the things he said during the Floyd promotion where there are going to be people that were done with him forever. Okay.

And because of that, him losing and then him being kind of curled up the edge of the octagon, his face swollen. Hey, what the hell happened? I'm in pain. He got beaten. People enjoyed that. And for then it to be he's done, I would push back all the way on that one.

And then another element of UFC, I remember working with somebody at ESPN who just didn't get it, right? And he goes, that's sports stupid. And I was like, okay, why is the sport stupid? He goes, you know, the champions can't stay champions that long. I go, do you get what's going on in there?

Like, do you understand what's going on? Like, do you know how fight works? Especially guys that are really good. Like, what do you think is supposed to happen? You think some guy's supposed to win just all of these fights in a row? Now, granted, Khabib's done that. I think that also speaks to the fact that Jones is going to go down, despite all of his issues, is one of the greatest ever, if not the greatest. I mean, it's insane what he's been able to do over his entire run. So the enjoyment of Conor's failure is real. I also understand the justification for the enjoyment.

for the enjoyment, but to then say, oh, he's done or he sucked. Or when people count the Floyd loss against him, I'll see a graphic on TV and say, hey, look at Conor's record over this many years. And you're like, you're using the fucking Floyd loss. Like, honestly, that was a win. I thought Floyd, like for what that should have been, Conor, that's not an L for that at all. There's a lot of anti-Conor stuff out there. I get it.

But I think it's too much to then assume that this guy can't ever win at a high level in the UFC again. That's my theory. I agree. And there are a lot of favorable matchups, as you saw him say at the post-fight press conference, in that top 10 at 155 pounds right now. The Nate Diaz matchup, you can argue, at 70 for a trilogy is a favorable matchup. I think the fight is more relevant at 155 pounds. The thing is, though, is that he puts so much

of his legacy on the line every time he fights now. And that's why I think he deserves respect, right? Because you can argue now on the heels of this knockout loss, and I don't like to see any of our fighters get concussed like that, right? But now, if you wanted to argue that he's not one of the all-time great fighters in the UFC, this singular loss gives you a lot of ammunition to make that argument.

Even Khabib only defended the belt three times. It's not like Jon Jones or George St-Pierre where he has double-digit title defenses here. It's hard to do at 155. So I feel like for Conor now, the pressure is even heightened, right? Because you lose to Poirier again, and you're one and three at 155 pounds. What kind of lightweight legacy is that, right? But there were always people, Ryan, who said, oh, he never defended a belt in the UFC. As great as he was at featherweight, I know, but he's undefeated at 145 pounds. But it's not as though the cupboard was

bare when he moved up to 55. And certainly after he beat Eddie Alvarez and stepped away, there were plenty of people that he could have fought. You know, he vacated that belt and Khabib became champion. I just think there's still a legacy to build. And what else are you going to do, Rod? You know, it's like, what are we going to do, right? Are you going to make the senior tour in golf? You know, like, what are you going to do?

No, I'm not. No. You know, like, I don't know. I'm the wrong person to ask because I'd probably be the person to be like, yeah, I'm good. I'm done. But you're right. You're right. Like, we are always in a hurry to tell athletes to be done.

You know what I'm saying? Like, we always want to be like, all right, now it's over. And you go, I don't know. What if you want to keep playing? Like, what if you want to ruin? Whenever anybody talks about Jordan, I go, dig into those Wizards years. That enhanced his legacy. That wasn't an embarrassment.

That enhanced it. What he did after taking time off, what he did in the second year after he got pissed about the first year back with the Wizards. Again, I'm not comparing Conor McGregor to Jordan. But you're right. He actually loves fighting. He loves fighting, and he hasn't fought enough. And we'll see. But I'm not in any, cause there's also the other side of it too, as you know,

with fighters, once you kind of really hate getting hit and it sucks, then you're done. You're kind of like done, you know, Oh wait, he just doesn't take a punch the same way. He doesn't fight back. He starts to retreat a little bit more. I don't see that in him. I have to see more evidence of that. So like anybody saying you can hate him fine, but to write him off is a mistake. Yeah, he will gladly get punched in the face. He just doesn't want to get kicked in the calf. The next big thing. What do we have to look forward to?

Because I know not necessarily the next UFC fight night thing, but like what's the next fight that you're hoping Dana makes or what everybody's looking for? Where are you right now in the chat boards? Yeah, Naganu's. We love him on this spot. He's fighting for the title on March 27th, okay? I'll buy a pay-per-view for a few of you

out there. Just hit me up on Twitter if you can't afford it, okay? He is the baddest man on the planet, and I say that with all due respect to the greatest UFC heavyweight of all time, the incumbent Stipe Miocic. But that is the rematch. That is the championship fight that is happening on March 27th. And I guess better put on Ngannou, it's just that he is the singular scariest striker, puncher that I've ever seen sitting in that seat octagon side in 10 years. I watch the monitor when I call fights because that's what people at home are seeing. But when

he fights, I have to watch the octagon because the thing shakes every time he puts his foot down. So I can't wait to see the improvements that he has made. He's certainly fighting the best version of Stipe, who is just so good in all areas. But yeah, I mean, the heavyweight championship, it's the sport's ultimate prize. And Ngannou's getting a second crack March 27th.

Can't wait for that one check out anik it's john j-o-n underscore anik a-n-i-k so i guess he's going to buy a couple pay-per-views for people and also check out his podcast with kenny florin anik and florin in the the legend ray longo uh recapping more if you want more recap of ufc 257 uh they got it for you thanks man thank you buddy we're going to talk with Stephen Hyden here in a moment and the reason I'm excited to talk music is I love music

and this album Kid A from Radiohead came out just over 20 years ago and it's one of the all timers for me although my timeline with Radiohead isn't exactly from the beginning because I didn't even like Creep when it came out. OK Computer, all that stuff. When I was finishing college, I was like, OK, wait, these guys are a little different. Something's going on here. So when I grabbed Kid A, I remember that first note. I remember that first note and going, this is going to be different. Now, look, I can't play an instrument,

even though I love music. It's super frustrating for me. Growing up, working outside, the first time ever was learning about U2 and the police and loving U2 War because I thought I looked like the kid on the cover of the cassette tape. And then also remembering that when we had sheet rockers or electricians that wanted to listen to Bad Company, my father would be like, hey, look, on this site, we listen to the Allman Brothers. I went through a heavy metal phase like a lot of kids did around 10 or 11. It was Motley Crue for me, a little rat. I'll admit, I like Kiss. My father was also disappointed because he told me that Kiss was for kids,

which I thought was weird because I was only 10 or 11. And then as he would look at these horrifying Motley Crue posters that I put up that he always let me put up, he'd be like, hey, what do you think these guys are actually doing today? And I'd be like, well, they're kicking ass. They're Motley Crue. He's like, these guys are golfing and counting their money. He was right about most of them, but he was probably wrong about Motley Crue. There was definitely an REM and cure phase for me there. Living Color broke my three song rule

where the first time I heard Cult of Personality, I didn't care if the rest of the tape sucked. I was going to buy that tape and I was glad because the entire thing was perfect. And then the birth of commercial rap, whether it was De La Soul or Dean Ice, who I know under the radar then, but more on the radar now as a world famous DJ, Slick Rick, Digital Underground, a concept album about sex packets, Eric B and Rakim, and then gangster rap where you

got a 12 year old white kid, whether it's sunshine or snow outside running an extension cord from a shed to his tape deck to listen to straight out of Compton and your father coming home from work going, what is going on here? And I tried to explain to him that the West Coast was a mess. The streets were crazy. And he just looked at me because my dad is the coolest motherfucker ever. It just shook his head and let me keep listening to it. And then once I got to high school, there was a bit of a Martha's Vineyard hippie phase of all the old classic rock. And even though I didn't smoke weed all the time, it was Grateful Dead. And I thought it was cool that I liked traffic and no one else did. You get to Vermont, you go to school, UVM,

it's mandatory that you like Dave Matthews and Phish. And that already started to happen in high school anyway, but it would always kind of get back when it was a little bit later in the dorms. And when you had your own place back to rap, specifically Midnight Marauders, which to this day is the CD that I've listened to start to finish more than any other.

But then a little bit after college, as I started to kind of rediscover Radiohead after not liking them because I was working in a music store with all these musicians and they were like, no, this is really good. You don't get it. I'm like that creep song. It sucks. I'm out. And I started listening to jazz. And then I was like, wait, do I like jazz? Because my musician friends are telling me, Hey, check out Pat Matheny, check out Jaco Pistorius. You got to listen to Chick Corea, Art Blakely. And it was always Miles Davis for me, but I didn't know if I liked jazz or I wanted people to think I liked jazz. But you know what?

I know that I really, really like jazz. Seeing Tool twice or Christian Scott, Ajwa Atunde, right before all this stuff, and in concerts, knowing how much I like this. But I'll never forget that moment, being 25, 26 years old, walking around the corner to Pure Pop, this legendary CD store in Burlington, Vermont, and seeing that Kid A had just come out. And I put the headphones on. I heard those first few notes, and I was in. And whenever I hear those notes, I time travel back to that moment. It's a moment I miss incredibly.

And then at other times, I'm so happy that's not my current moment. But that's what Kid A is to me. And I know it is for our guy, Steven, who joins us now. This isn't happening. Radio heads Kid A. What's up, man? Great to be here. I loved hearing that story.

It's like you kind of hit on like every corner of the music world in about like a 30-year span. Yeah, that's basically it. I've had different stuff. So let's let you talk a lot more now. Why this book about this album for you? Well, yeah, I was thinking ahead. I was looking for a next book project and I was thinking whatever I do next is probably going to come out in the year 2020. So I was just thinking about the first 20 years of the 21st century, you know, which has obviously been a really crazy time. And is there a way to kind of write about this,

this era, like through the lens of like a album, you know, like what album sort of represents the early 20th century to me. And like kid, a immediately came to mind and there really was no other choice for me. I'm sure like if the, if it was a different

writer you could credibly pick another record there's certainly albums that sold more copies or that were more influential but like in terms of just kind of capturing like what it feels like to live in this moment in time kid a to me uh just personifies that more perfectly than any other record i could think of so let's go back it's an english band for those that don't know um what what's their background who are these guys as guys uh because i think a lot of where their head is at is how this this album even comes together considering what they were like in the very beginning yeah i mean one thing that really makes radiohead unique is that you know you have five people in the band and it's the same five

people that have been together and they've really known each other since they were kids. They started playing in a band called On a Friday in the mid-80s that eventually turns into Radiohead. As we move into the early 90s, they put out their first record, Pablo Honey. In the early 90s, you mentioned the song Creep was their big hit. And it's interesting with Radiohead because we think of them now as being this sort of like hallmark band of the 90s and of alt rock. And, you know, they're in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They have a great legacy. But there was a period of time after Creep where they were looked at

as being almost like a one-hit wonder, you know? Like if you think of like all the alternative bands that came out after nirvana was big and you know like they were kind of grouped into the same company as like gin blossoms and candle box and you know bands that kind of came and went and um you see this progression in the 90s where they put out their second record the bends in 1995 okay computer comes out in 1997. These really kind of ambitious, forward-thinking rock records. And it really remakes how people look at them as, you know, not just being like an alt-rock ripoff, but like as a true original, like a band that's sort of like setting the tone and influencing other groups.

And then that leads to Kid A, which comes out in the year 2000. It's their fourth record. And it really is like, I think the peak of Radiohead being the kind of band that like with every album is going to sort of, you know, reinvent the wheel, like do something totally different. In the same way that like,

when you look back at the sixties with the Beatles, like how the Beatles went from being the lovable mop tops who make, you know, a hard day's night. And then three years later, they make Sergeant Pepper. Radiohead lived up, I think, to that same kind of blueprint that you're not just going to repeat the same thing over and over again. Really, like with Kid A, I think the idea for Radiohead was like, we're going to try to figure out what is this new century going to sound like? You know, what is the future going to be like? even gonna be rock music you know are we still a rock band when we make this album uh so along with just being a great record there's all these

other things around it that I think really make it interesting to talk about the thing I couldn't understand like as soon as I was starting to read some of the lyrics i was like this is nonsense like i woke up sucking a lemon and then tom york who's the lead guy who's clearly like the main influence on everything and obviously steven this is your world more than it is mine so jump in wherever but then i wanted to know like what the hell's going on here and then i you know it's always kind of funny when something's different it's like wait do i love this because i love it or do i love it because it's radiohead like if this were the the the thompson there's something stupid just make up a name and you're like would i go oh that thing sucks and you know there's some real cliches in their story which is kind of funny because they're also not cliche as as rock stars

but york is so miserable post okay computer that i mean part of it's like hey you're getting everything you wanted and now you fucking hate it so it's almost like his own misery anxiety and depression led to this is that accurate yeah i mean i think this is obviously a common arc in rock music pop music where someone gets really popular and they find that this thing that they've been building toward their whole career isn't all that it's cracked up to be. I mean, I'm sure that also happens in sports too, like where you work really, really hard to achieve a certain goal and maybe the end point, you know, whether it's fame, riches, whatever, it doesn't like fix everything

inside of you. You know, it's not a cure all like you still feel in a lot of ways, like you're the same person, which can be even more depressing than you were before. Cause it's like, well, this, this thing was going to make me happy and it didn't. And now what do I do? Um, and I think that happened with Radiohead after OK Computer, which was really like their breakthrough record. And I think that happened with Radiohead after OK Computer, which was really like their breakthrough record. Certainly, critically, people loved it. It was a big hit. But I think in the case of Tom York, I think there were a couple things going on. I think one, the thing that we were just talking about, him being disenchanted with reaching the mountaintop.

Because if you look at his history, when he was younger, he did want to be famous. He didn't want to be successful. And Radiohead worked really hard in the early part of the nineties. I think in 1995, they played like 180 concerts, which is like a concert every other day, pretty much, you know, playing the hard rock, you know, the hard rock cafe, like at every, you know, backwater town in America, you know, playing the hard rock, you know, the hard rock cafe, like at every, you know, backwater town in America, you know, just trying to break through. So I think the disenchantment after all that hard work and still feeling like, you know, I'm still not really happy. I think the other thing that happened too, is that Radiohead became almost like a musical cliche that other bands copied. Like if you listened to late 90s music, especially from England,

there's a lot of artists who like kind of sound like Radiohead. And some of them are still around today. Like Muse, that band started around this time. Coldplay, like when they first started. It sounded like Radiohead. Exactly. Honestly, like I liked it, but I go, what are we doing?

And I think Tom York kind of felt like, well, if all these other bands are doing what we've done on our last couple albums, it's almost like the market is oversaturated at that point. Radiohead became its own genre. So then how do you get past that? I also think, too, that there's, like, a common arc with, like, a lot of rock bands, like, where they reach a certain point where they don't want to just make guitar-oriented music anymore. Like, that happened with U2 when they went from, like, the Joshua Tree to, like, Octoon Baby. Very similar kind of change. Or you look at, like, a band like the Talking Heads, like, where they were, like, this punk band.

And then they became, like, a funk kind of band like with remain in light and these were all bands that like influenced radiohead in some way so i think that also influenced them and kind of making them feel like well what do we what do we do now we can't just make okay computer again we have to try to push it forward in some way so how did they they make Kid A? Well, they entered the studio in early 1999. And the thing with Radiohead that I think is really interesting is that, like, they're this critically acclaimed band. They're obviously, you know, very successful commercially. Like, you know, to this day, they can play arenas anywhere in the world. They're actually, like, one of the few rock bands that couldn bands that couldn't still credibly headline a festival like Coachella.

Most rock bands aren't really in that sort of sphere anymore. It's mostly like pop and hip-hop and R&B artists. But Radiohead still has enough cachet where they can do something like that. But even with all that cachet, they're actually a pretty insecure band in a lot of ways. And, you know, they enter the studio in 99

and they just are like working in different places. Like they were in Paris for a while. They worked in England. And wherever they were, there was this feeling that like whatever we're doing isn't good enough. And they were just recording recording a lot of material. I mean, we haven't talked about Amnesiac yet,

which was the 2001 record right after Kid A, which was made at the same time. They made enough material for two albums. So all the songs were made at the exact same time. Yeah. It's obviously very similar when you hear it, and it came out a year later. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's all from the same period. And I think there was maybe a thought at one point that it might have been a double album but then they decided to separate it into like two different releases um but i think the reason why it took so long is that i think there was a period where you know again there was this insecurity that like whatever we're doing it's not good enough and i think it was driven by tom york feeling like if it sounds like us we have to throw it away we have to figure out a new thing that maybe isn't guitar based music he was really which the guitarist the guitarist must have hated this well yeah but i well i think there was a feeling like that at first.

But then I think they also felt like, well, we want to try to do something different. But how do we do that? And it really was a process of at some point going back and listening to some of the things that they had done earlier in the process. And realizing, wow, these songs that we thought were garbage are actually pretty good. And maybe we can work with this. And if you look at Radiohead's career, that's kind of like a recurring thing where, you know, and again, like to bring it back to a sports analogy, you know, I wonder, because I feel like in sports, there's this sort of idea that like you have to struggle in order for, you know know a victory or some kind of triumph to really mean something like it has to hurt a little bit along the way or if things come

too easily it's not legitimate and that seems to be like the ethos of Radiohead in a lot of ways that like we can't just plug in and have tom york sing beautifully and have johnny greenwood play some sick guitar leads and and just be this great rock band which i think they are it's like we have to like spend two years in the studio torture ourselves go through like all this sort of hell on earth and then at the end we're going to end up with a radiohead record um so that's one of the really interesting interesting things about them i think um and just how they've kind of tried to manage that throughout their career like this wrinkle and how they work because it just seems like they make things harder on themselves uh maybe not intentionally but that's how it works out the u2 comp is great for a couple

reasons because you know i loved you know war joshua tree like joshua tree was standard issuing in the late 80s for my age you know like you had to and then you know you're like oh do it just rattle and hum on that kind of deal you felt like you were missing out. And then Octoon Baby came out and I hated it. And I hated it because I felt like you two owed it to me or to all of us to stay as you two. And I guess I didn't get that they were trying to change. And then even Bono was like decided to become like a different person, which was weird. And then once they had shifted, there's actually some of that electronic stuff in the 90s that I like. Like some of that stuff I ended up liking once I'd gotten over the fact that they had decided to change. And I kind of started thinking, what is a band?

Oh, should we appreciate the bands that are constantly trying to push and do different things? And then I guess if we don't like it, we'll turn it off. Like 311. I love 311. They haven't changed a fucking note in 30 years. I saw them, I don't know a couple years ago it was just so much fun because i was like this is exactly note for note what it was like being in college and whereas radiohead would have never done that so yes it's artsy or it's more accomplished it's it's kind of it's cool to challenge yourself and these guys challenge

themselves in big ways they have some electronic influence that I think other people call them out for being like, oh, you're just doing what these guys had done, but whatever they did, they did it in a way that was more, I don't want to say accepted because people definitely pushed back, but I think that's always kind of a funny relationship and what rock stars, what bands owe us and how much they can deviate from who they are,

which made us fall in love with them in the first place. Right. I mean, I think it, it all boils down to if, if the audience feels that the artist or the band is being true to themselves, like you mentioned three 11, like they haven't really changed all that much. Well, it's like, maybe that's just who they are. And it makes sense that like you, like if they did make their own kid, a, you know, maybe that'd be terrible. Like it wouldn't make sense. Like I, like I love ACc and i love the fact that like in the 90s they didn't like hire a dj to do like

the wiki wiki you know to be trendy at the time they just made acds you know they just make the same record over and over again right that's what you want from them you don't want them to like do like the oh like justin bieber is guesting on the acd song, like to get on pop radio. It's like, no, they do their thing. They're true to themselves. And I think in the case of Radiohead, you know, this idea that they make challenging albums, like that was their identity, I think, in a lot of ways, even albums that we look back on now, as being pretty straightforward, you know, like the Benz or OK Computer, like I remember when those albums albums came out and there were plenty of people that just thought, you know, like, OK Computer, you have Paranoid Android, this like seven minute song with like

three different parts to it. You know, that didn't sound like high and dry. You know, that didn't sound like fake plastic trees. There were people who were like, oh, this is like, I don't get this. And then maybe after the 10th listen, they're like, oh, this is the greatest song of all time. And even like Kid A, I think now it doesn't sound to me like that radical anymore. I think it did in the moment.

But now, you know, you can kind of hear the Radiohead qualities in it, even the ones that they were trying to hide. And again, I think that's another story about that record especially like if you listen to like live bootlegs of that tour it's like radiohead went back to being a guitar band like when they played those songs live and because that's really who they are at heart and they do it brilliantly but they were still able to make this record that like wasn't predictable and felt like it was true to them and it wasn't them you know just kind of pretending to be something that they're not you know so yes so to go back to your question you know as to what

artists oh i think i think we want them to be true to themselves because if you know if they're not it turns us off i think ultimately one of my favorite songs even though it's not on kid a there but it's on amnesiac is is like spinning plates and then once i heard it live i mean it would be like i can't tell you how different it is it's two different things and you actually can't hear the original until you go once you hear the live piano version then you have to go back to the original to go oh there was this song in there that i don't even think i heard the first time around and i'll just say to people because i i remember you know van pelt

never liked him co-host for years where he just said you know they could they could shit in a bag and you would like it and i'd be like well what what key is it in you know like you would like it. And I'd be like, well, what, what key is it in? You know, like I'd go, well, I don't know. Like I got to have to hear it first. Um, and I think like spinning plates on amnesiac, it's like, wait, you actually like this. You like this. And then when I hear the live version, I go, yes, this is why I liked it because paranoid Android was the one that got me back in. And then I kind of reversed it because I was so out on creep. I thought it was lame. I thought they were lame. I didn't even like looking. It was MTV played it over and over and over again. And now I actually appreciate Creep more now because the lyrics are incredible.

But at that age, I just wasn't breaking down people's lyrics. But Paranoid to Android, once you understand that, you're just like, this song is incredible. It's beyond a ballad. It's almost like a small's like a i don't know it's beyond a ballad it's it's almost like a small play right there and then i was kind of like ready to go back in once kid a came out and that it's just true like as soon as everything starts you're like okay this is going to be a really like for the next hour this is going to be an unbelievable experience and how perfectly it's tied into and it's it's just amazing thinking of an alternative universe where they made it a double album and

then you'd had this awesome chapter where you kind of did a fantasy draft of what some other people have done drafts before, but where you did a combo to try to figure it all out and put it together. And as I was reading the chapter,

I hated it because I was like, I don't want, I'm so glad this didn't happen. I'm not saying I hated your chapter. I just hated the idea that, no, no, no, everything is perfect because that was the great thing about CDs back then. And this sounds like,

Hey, two old guys did this podcast. Um, just anticipating the next note all the time in order, which is now something that's lost forever. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

and just to go back to what you're saying about like, yeah, like in the book, I, I made up like a album called kid amnesiac, where it was like a 14 track album, picking like if there were if there had only been like one album compiled from all the Am. And I'm so glad that they wouldn't have listened to someone like me in that regard. To go back to like something you're saying about like you said, like Scott Van Pelt said, like, oh, if they shit in a bag, you would like it. And I do think that's a great line. It's fine. It's funny. I mean, I think there is this image that Radiohead has among people who don't like them, that they're this esoteric band, that they're very intellectual and sort of pretentious art for the sake of pretentious art.

And I would just say that I really feel like it's the opposite with that band, where I think the people that love that band love them because of how they connect emotionally. I think the people that love that band love them because of how they connect emotionally. Like there's aspects of Radiohead that are actually kind of embarrassing just because they are like so emotional and like almost like operatic, you know, where it's the opposite of being intellectual. It's like actually it's just like pure sort of like speaking to the heart more than the mind. like speaking to the heart more than the mind. And, you know, look, there's obviously great musical things going on on Radiohead records and they're doing things that like,

aren't necessarily just like straightforward pop music where maybe you have to like give it a little bit more time for it to blossom. But I really kind of push back on that cliche about Radiohead that like you would need like a doctorate in music or something to understand them because I really think that the people that music or something to understand them because i really think that the people that love them they love them because of like you put the record on and you feel something like kind of profound when it's on and then that's the best thing about any kind of music i think you know that's why we listen to records is to feel that way

so the reaction to it this is where the music critic thing comes in, which has been what you've been doing. Because I almost wonder, there's a lot of pushback. What are they doing? They're whining. They're ripping off these other guys and they're doing this other stuff.

And then it's almost like the momentum can happen where it's like, hey, does this actually suck? Yeah, I think this sucks. And then all these people start going like, actually, this does suck. And I'm listening to it going, I love it. So I don't, I don't care. Like I wasn't a big, like I'm going to go on message boards. And that is, you point out the book perfectly. It's like the very beginning of the internet and the way we would consume this stuff where you could go and then start talking about it and the lead up to this and everything. I wonder if you ever look at the music critic part of it and go, what, what part of that is

actually real? Like what part is real where this is my actual reaction or the momentum of, of how the critique or praise can kind of change the way something's consumed. Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a great question because, you know, Yeah, I mean, that's a great question because, you know, there's definitely a difference between way you could make the argument that the more visceral in the moment reaction might be more honest. And then maybe the 20 years later reaction might be shaped by nostalgia or like what other people have said about it or, you know, the historical significance of something or whatever. So you could make that argument.

I don't necessarily think that's true. I do tend to think that the longer you have with an album or a movie or whatever it is it is better um but yeah i mean i in the case of kid a specifically i definitely think it's true that like what people wrote about it in the moment was shaped by expectations you know like what people wanted or what they thought they wanted from Radiohead and like Radiohead not giving to them, giving that to them and then judging the album based on how it fell short of their expectations. Whereas, you know, the band has nothing to do with your expectations.

You know, they can't control that. Why do they have to make an album that just sort of lives up to that um but yeah i think that happens all the time i think you know also i'm gonna make a hard left here to taylor swift like please do i think the way that she was written about for a while was sort of a reaction to her huge success after 1989 you know she was like this huge obviously pop star but she's getting great reviews and you could argue that maybe she was becoming overexposed a little bit and then she puts out reputation where that's sort of like a deliberately more difficult album and she's sort of leaning into some of the negative press reaction a little bit. I think having fun with it, but not really making any apologies for it either.

And people killed her for that record in the moment. Because it was in 1989 and it wasn't what people thought they wanted from her. And now people look back on that album, I think, a little bit more fondly than they did in the moment. And now people look back on that album, I think, a little bit more fondly than they did in the moment. So, yeah, fortunately, the conversation doesn't stop the week after the album comes out. We can continue to talk about these things and things evolve. And no one really remembers how Kid A was initially received now. remembers how kiddie was initially received now you know like it's regarded as this like masterpiece record even though in the moment especially in england like it was really badly reviewed um and you know they were looked at as like you know these posers basically trying to

sound like an electronic artist and you know you're just this sort of you know pretentious rock band uh but no one remembers that now They just think of it as this classic that has always been loved by people. That's what's great about this book too, is that, you know, even if you're not the biggest Radiohead guy, you go, do I want to read 200 plus pages about Kid A? It's not what it is.

It goes over the, first of all, you're a Radiohead fan, you probably already read the book, but it does a really good job of, of getting into the reaction to something this big. It's almost, hey, this is your role. You're supposed to stay in this role. And then England turns on them.

And then it's almost like, Oh wait, we turned on these guys for being ahead of us. And that's some of my favorite music is like, I'll, you know, look, Paul's boutique.

When that came out after licensed to ill, people were so pissed off. And it was like, wait, you guys are actually like music. Like you're, you're not just idiots. Like there's, there's a musical side to you guys like what's going on here right and that was the first lesson i ever had in a band being like no no we we have it figured out before you do

de la soul is dead is another perfect example of that because everybody was so mad that they wanted the hippie rappers and everything de la soul is dead is one of the greatest hip-hop albums of all time but in the moment people were just like oh they're done these guys suck and that's not what happened here at a radio head but it's really funny how the great the truly great artists are so far ahead of us that we don't even know what's happening yeah and those are two great examples i mean the paul's boutique example i think you know that is what enabled the beastie boys to actually have a career that wasn't just going to be like fight for your right to party and i love license to ill still i think that's a really fun album but

like if they had made another record like that we would remember them as like an 80s band that had like a couple hits and then they faded away but the fact that they made paul's boutique even though that failed in the short run commercially that opened so many doors for them to do all these other things you know that that leads to check your head and ill communication and and now they're like oh they're like one of the great groups of their time because they were able to do that yeah and just being able to sort of withstand the short-term um reaction from like the press i mean the thing with music critics is that like they can nail you for not making the same record or they can nail you for not being innovative enough you know i think with music critics in general no matter what you do

as an artist like if if you're like if you're one of these artists that is able to string several albums together, I think there inevitably comes a point by your fourth or fifth record where critics don't know what else to say about you anymore. I don't have a narrative to lock into. So I'm either going to lose interest or I'm going to maybe manufacture this sort of like negative feeling about you that I didn't have before. Because it's boring to say that like a great band makes another great record. You know, you can't really get much mileage out of that if you're a critic and you want attention. But if it's a great band and you say their fourth record sucks, that is a conversation starter.

And I think that that does come into play maybe unconsciously sometimes. But I definitely feel like the music press in general is always really fickle. And that is part of the driving motivation i think sometimes well that's a similarity there in sports too where it's like hey i'll be the guy on the set that's going to just say this player actually isn't that good right else isn't that i know are people saying that about tom brady they're like oh yeah 10 super bowls like a couple guys i mean i don't know they should there should be like just a banning be like look you still get paid just we don't want to hear from you for like a year last thought here researching this book do you have a the story your go-to story that you tell your buddies

about something you learned about this band that i don't think you never came across like this is in your radio that's not your favorite band right no they're a band that i love right and they're not your who's your favorite oh man well i mean my favorite artist is Bob Dylan, I think, of all time. But I mean, I have so many other favorites. I mean, it's hard to boil down to one. But if I had to pick one, it'd be Bob Dylan. But Radiohead was great to write about because they are one of the most important bands of my lifetime. And I remember when Creep came out, and I have been with them every step of the way.

So it was something that like I felt like I could write about in a different kind of way. I've written about older artists, too, but like this is different. Like I have kind of real time experience with them, not just with the band, but also like the times that they were a part of, which is what my book is about. I think as much as Radiohead. Yeah, that's what's really cool because you start with kind of where you're at and then your review is like a high school kid. And then that's why right away I was like, okay, I'm totally into this because it's not just about, Hey, this is how they built today. And this is how this song worked. And this is how that song worked. It evolves. It's very

predictive. Some would argue that this album and the concept and the lyrics and some of the stuff behind it, it's like, you know, they were on a lot of stuff but yeah i'll just kind of get back to that was there was there a story or something from one of the guys that you had met or in research and some of this stuff um that that you kind of share with your buddies or anything like that well i mean i guess i would just go back to like a story that comes toward the beginning of the book where uh you know the radio head is on the okay computer tour they're playing this big show in in birmingham in in england and um tom york is like freaking out before the show and he's trying to figure out a way to like just get out of the arena so he can like clear his head

i don't think he had the thought that he was going to like ditch out on the show but he definitely wanted to get away from the arena so like he's walking around this building and he cannot find an exit anywhere and he finally does find you know some door that he can slip out of and he gets on like a nearby uh subway station and he realizes almost immediately that like because the subway train is in the vicinity of an arena that's about to have a radio head show that like he's in one of the few places where like everyone recognizes him because it's just full of radio head fans like they're on their way to the show so he ends up like going back to the arena and they play the show that night and after the show he is just freaking out he has this sort of like weird nervous breakdown where he can't speak and he has this like kind of grimace on his face and he told this story later because he said that

that was the inspiration for that line you referenced earlier from everything in its right place yesterday i woke up sucking a lemon like he was describing the look on his face like at that show this like kind of look of like what in the hell am i gonna do and i remember like reading that story and just thinking like, this is a little too perfect because it, it's a great story, but it also just like works as a metaphor for like a guy who's trying to escape fame and can't like, he's literally trapped in an arena, you know, with an arena rock show that he cannot get out of. So I just thought, you know, if, if, if I were a screenwriter making a Radiohead.

It's a good pilot. Yeah, exactly. That would be the opening scene. Absolutely. You know, there's a lot of, maybe people would even say like, oh, this is like a little too obvious. Like you're being a little too heavy handed with your symbolism here. But like, no, this actually happened.

So I tell that story because again, I think it says a lot about Radiohead about like where they were and where they ended up and just like what makes them such a fascinating band, I think to, to write and read about. This isn't happening. Radiohead's Kid A in the beginning of the 21st century. It's Stephen Hyden was with Grantland for a while as well. And this has been a long time coming,

going back and forth. So I always appreciate your patience on this. I'm glad we finally got it done, man. Thank you. Yeah, me too, Ryan. Pleasure talking with you. We'll finish with life advice again. But first, the next time you're watching basketball,

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so don't miss your shot. Get in the game and download the FanDuel app to start playing NBA InPlay today. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.

I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Okay, we got a few. I have one here that I absolutely love. Let me tell you what's required. Lifeadvice, rr at gmail.com. Okay, we got a few. I have one here that I absolutely love. All right, so here we go.

Our guy checking in back in the NBA Today podcast days. Group thread consisting of 10 guys, mid-30s, varying levels of friendships, from best man at weddings to more loose friendships but all solid. The thread has evolved over time, but it's been settled on the current 10 for a few years now. We're all from the same hometown. They're living in the Rocky Mountains with a couple of out-of-staters as well. The thread is a source of so many laughs. I'm just telling you, some of you guys are telling on yourselves left and right now because we're getting follow-up emails being like, oh man, somebody heard that. So I'm actually covering for you guys. But no, I'll cover for you.

But you can't get mad at me if you give up too much. All right. So the thread is a source of so many laughs and a great way for everyone to keep in touch. Keep in touch as we live our lives between weddings. We all go and hang out together again. Okay, got it. For a few years now, one particular member, let's call him Ron, has rubbed some people the wrong way with political rants and other divisive ways to participate. Over time, it went from being funny and good-natured shit-talking, kind of a bit he was keeping up, to annoying, to straight-up affecting the way other guys were participating

in the chat because it always led to some sort of unwanted drama. Previously, as a joke, sometimes guys would, quote, leave the thread when they'd had enough of someone's shit uh not just ron but anyone just to make a statement and the unwritten rule has always been that the person who left is immediately re-added to the chat this is how it's just been forever well ron recently left the chat as a joke and immediately the conversation turned to do we add him back it's been several days now and i wondered what your move would be. Take care. All right. First of all,

there's nothing unique to this. Welcome to text threads with multiple people, whether it's an email loop or a text thread, there are going to be guys, especially with the climate of the last couple of years where people are definitely, um, you know,

like there's just more arguments. I've noted with my group of friends too. There's more arguments on subjects that no one was ever arguing about before. And, uh, friendships have been ruined, um, because of this. And maybe it was, it was good that some of these friendships ended. So this is not unique. Welcome to any sort of thread in the current state. So if he's not like an OG out of this group, Ron's already at a disadvantage here. But that's a heavy thing you're about to do to this guy who for years has been on the threat. So you're saying it's been a few years,

it's always been this core 10, and he's the most disliked because everybody has the one guy that you're like, oh, this is his angle on this story. I would say keep him because it's probably going to be devastating for him if you guys actually don't add him back to the chat. Serious. I mean, unless he's been just straight up offensive,

it's going to be really, but you have to understand like that can be a really big deal. It can seem like, oh, whatever. We just took them off the text thread. You're basically telling him, none of us want to hear. We're better off not hearing from you for the rest of our lives. That's pretty heavy when you think about it. And that's the way it can play out. Like, have you ever had a group that you hung out with?

And all of a sudden that group was like, yeah, I think we're good with you. Like I've had it happen to me kind of once. And I went, oh, whoa. Like that happened. That's, that's kind of like, oh my gosh, like, what did I do? You know, that's kind of that deal. So if, if you just add them, you could prevent, but maybe you just, he pisses you off so much, but I'm just saying it's, it's a bit heavier than you may think of just the mechanism of keeping somebody outside of the chat. And then if you're going to say, Hey, well, you know, we, we kept you out for a week because your content sucks. And then he's going to be, you know, texting for like a week or so pretending he's back. It's like hard and playing defense for

like a week. And then, um, he's going to get right back to his, his old ways and being divisive. But sometimes, I don't know, sometimes you kind of need that guy out there. So everybody else can gang up on and, and just let them have it for the day. But I, I do get that. I do get that. Oh, okay.

You know, everybody's kind of going this way. Everybody feels this way about a topic. We're all sort of in agreement. Some, some strands of, of different thoughts. And then it's like,

here comes Ron again. So I'm just telling you, if you do it to him, you better be ready. It's like, cause that's to the death on that kind of deal. All right. We got a guy checking in.

Married five years. One kid, one on the way wedding didn't want a big wedding, but during the lead up to the wedding, my in-laws agreed to pay for our wedding. So I assumed it was covered fast forward to a week before my wedding. I was hit with a call from father-in-law. Hey man,

I'm going to be about 15 grand. Sure. I'll pay you back. Don't worry. Wasn't thrilled. Had to deal with a crying fiance, but I dropped the cash and put that issue to bed. Yeah. Heroes don't wear capes. Anyway, it's been five years and I haven't been offered a penny back on that 15 large. Before you give me the quote, you won't see a penny of that money advice. I've come to accept that. So that's part one of this ordeal. My in-laws were a family who kept up with the Joneses when I vacationed and lived paycheck to paycheck and paying for their decisions now as money is tight on all fronts.

I picked up tabs at dinner without making a big scene, etc. But part two of this ordeal is that there is an ongoing theme of constantly going in my pockets for things that come up. Alright. More backstory on my side. I grew up with a single mom who literally scraped her way through the corporate ladder. Never made great money, but enough to retire

and save. Special needs sister. We never went on vacations. We never had much growing up. Later in life, my mom remarried and is now married to a great guy. And due to all their saving and investing, they were able to buy a really nice house in Florida. This house has provided my wife, child, and I a great opportunity to visit every year and vacation for basically nothing. Here's where my dilemma kicks in. My wife has mentioned to me that she would like to go on vacation this year with her family. She wants us all to rent a house for a week and do what they used to do when they were younger. Again, her parents have said, that sounds great. Don't worry. We won't go out to dinner. We will bring food to the house and

take care of all of that. To me, that sounds like, let's just get to the place. We'll all be feeling good, and maybe we can slip in a restaurant here and there. I've told my wife, I've heard the quote, don't worry, we'll take care of it before, because again, we're talking about our man being 15 grand on the hook for his own wedding. But now I'm getting hit with a quote, well, it's unfair that your mom's stepdad gets to see the kids on vacation and mine don't. I get her point, but at the same time, her parents made decisions earlier in life to put them in this position now, so I really don't feel sorry for them.

All right, real quick, don't ever say that to her. Don't ever say, your parents made bad decisions earlier in life that put them in the position they're in now. All right. That part sucks. The part that sucks is my wife clearly knows we have money for that type of vacation. Before the listeners think it's some luxurious vacation, think lake house in the Midwest. He must be a doctor. So my question to you is how should I go about this without being an absolute dick? I want to say, listen, my mom saved up, sacrificed her early in her life in order to be in the position she is today without completely offending my wife. Yeah, good luck, dude.

You can't possibly think you're going to be able to have this kind of conversation do i just eat the vacation surprise and the surprise cost had obviously come up i have this feeling like i should punish her parents for the shitty decisions they made when they were younger and i don't feel like i'm just going to go bankroll them it's as if they have no shame where would you steer the conversation with my wife if you were in a position like this with a significant other? Okay. Hey man, I get it. I mean, that wedding thing sucks. So that's something that's going to be with you forever. Like that just stings. You're never getting over that. All right. So we understand that part of it, but you can't tell your wife, her parents

suck. You know, you can't say like, oh like, oh, well, you are really mad about this. And I get it from the wedding part of it. But when you write the sentence, I have this feeling like I should punish her parents for this shit. That's a lot of wasted energy. Is it so bad that you can't go on? Really, what I'm saying here is just rent a house on the lake. Say it's good. And you're just going to have to cover it.

You said you're making comfortable six figures. Is it worth it to you to save the money as some lesson to her parents to then have your wife be pissed at you? Also old people don't learn shit. Yeah. And look, you're not wrong, man.

You're not wrong. But some of these comments are flirting with a much tougher go of it like would you like i mean this is simple math would you rather pay for some look you still get to stay in the lake house you've never once mentioned you hated the in-laws you may resent them but it doesn't sound like you hate them you know that the grandparents are going to want to be around the kids nothing you can do about that that's going to happen so would you rather just pay for that stuff and maybe you know you guys grab some to-go subs and there's a lot lobster dinner in there somewhere is that going to bother you so much more than the daily pain of your wife knowing that you could pay for a lake house and you deciding to teach her parents a lesson?

Yeah. I don't think, again, I'm not married, but the math on this one seems easy. Take the loss on the vacation house because the much bigger loss is going to be your wife. Like you can't say this stuff to her. You can't say, hey, your parents sucked at this stuff. So fuck them. No, no lake house. And you can't.

I mean, it's a really hard conversation. It's not like you could say to the father and mother of your wife. You're like, hey, you know what? All right, we'll do it. But we're going to get tuna fish and we're going to get some coal cuts here throughout. And then it's going to be pasta at night. You kind of can't do any of the things that you want to do is what I'm telling you.

So, Kyle? No, you're right. It's going to be so bad. It's going to be so bad if you say any of those things that you're thinking. And I think it's cool to think those things. And I get it. I think you can definitely not say that. But you could if you do end up going out to dinner, when you get back home to the bedroom, you can be like, Oh, did it again? And that's, that's it. Just chip away at that. I think that's the extent of anything that you can say or do about that.

hints in that email too that i was like okay well there's there's some stuff that if she's already going to be upset about these things and he said i can't i can't how do i do this without offending her you're just gonna you're gonna end up offending her i don't really think there's a way around that thanks at least like thanks for doing this or the dad yeah or the wife just like i know i know thank you like i hope i hope that's part Look, man, it sucks because people think when you have, you know, you're making a decent living, they think it's just disposable. You know, people are, are weird about it. You know, like you're doing all right. He probably thinks, oh, well, you know, that 15 grand, it's nothing to him, but at least be a man about it on the father's side, not you. You know, We're on the emailer side here, but it does suck that the father-in-law just never brings it up. That's ridiculous. You can't just say, hey, look,

I needed the 15 grand. I was short. I paid for the rest of it. Because he's doing the math in his head where he's like, oh, well, I paid for most of it already. Unless, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how much the wedding was. If the wedding were 20 grand, then maybe he didn't pay for most of it. But that's how people just find ways. You will always instinctively find a way to kind of defend your own position a lot. And even in this case where the father clearly, he's never brought it up once, like, hey, I know I kind of jammed you up on that. I wish I could pay you back. I can't. Maybe you'd even feel better about it then, but I guess that hasn't happened. Okay. Last one. This one's a money dispute and it's way more entertaining because it's so ridiculous. 32 from the Boston area.

This is not shocking at all that this is happening. I'm a pretty low level sales rep. So not exactly dripping with cash. Here's my problem. A little over a year ago, my good buddy had a new year's party at his place. We all got wasted. I ended up throwing up in the carpet, his guest bedroom. I didn't remember any of it the next morning. Hey, it's new year's man. Um, but absolutely felt horrible about what I'd done. I even offered to pay for a professional carpet cleaner to fix it up. He shrugged it off, told me it was no big deal. Fast forward a year. And he tells me out of the blue, he's decided to fix up the guest room because his wife is upset. There's still a stain on the carpet. He asked if

I'd help cover the expenses of the renovation because of the stain that was my fault. He said it'd be awesome if I could chip in $800. On the one hand, I feel really guilty still about what I did and want to make it up and keep our friendship. But on the other hand, $800 is a lot of money for me and that was over a year ago. I can't believe he would really pull this on me and thought we were good friends. Am I an asshole for not wanting to pay up for something that is admittedly my fault? Or is he an asshole for waiting a year, then asking me for money and guilting me into paying for his renovation? He included a picture of the carpet with the stain. There's a pretty good stain going on there.

It's a gray carpet. 800 seems high for the stain, first of all. Like crazy high. Alright? So let's start there. You're both kind of wrong here. You're 32, you threw up. It happens.

I'm not shaming you on that part of it. Alright? There's worse things that can happen. Now, I wonder if the wife is in play here where she was on his case so much that now he's sort of blinded by the relationship part of this where now he thinks he's asking you a normal question because for him to ask a year later after you had offered and he said no and say hey you know what let me let me hit him up for that 800 he's wrong to be embarrassed yeah. He's wrong too. Yeah. He's wrong too. But my guess is that's probably the wife that's been on his case about it. And

now he's reaching out to you. So he's just, he's sick of hearing about it. These are all guesses, but these are, these are educated guesses. He's sick about it. So he's just, he's a little clouded in his own judgment. Cause he's just so tired of hearing about this fucking stain that he's now asking you to do something that he probably shouldn't be doing, maybe wouldn't under normal circumstances. It's also really cheap, I think, on his end. But if you want to keep the friendship, I would probably throw in the 800 bucks. But this is one of those weird math problems where you're like, wait, because some people are listening to this, be like, hey, you're the guy. You're 32. You threw up, grow up, whatever.

You know, some of you guys are thinking that right now. I'm more in the group where it's like, I'm supposed to wait. What are the statute of limitations on this? I offered and now I can't. But since he's asking, even though it's fucked up, he's asking. I think you have to pay him the 800 bucks. But I think 800 is too high. Ask for a second estimate. Hey, can we get a, can we get a second estimate in here? Um, and looking at this carpet, if there's a full

renovation, why aren't they pulling this carpet up in the first place? Cause it doesn't look all that great to me, but again, you know, I don't have all the angles on this. So maybe I'll withdraw judgment or withhold judgment, I should say, before I know what kind of renovation we're talking about here. It sounds like you may be picking up the bill for some trim work here too, partner. So I don't know. You're screwed on this one because you did screw up, but I think it's ridiculous he's asking. So you're right, but pay up. Do you think a steam clean on the Sunday morning would have gotten that thing out instead of waiting a year and blotting it with paper towels or whatever they ended up doing? Do you think if he just on the Sunday morning would have gotten that thing out instead of waiting a year and blotting it with paper towels or whatever they ended up doing?

Do you think if he just footed the bill to rent this cleaner for the day, it would have been over and done with by then, though? Hey, as somebody who's had to have this happen in their house, you know, who's had to clean up somebody else's mess in their own house, it did not cost this much. It didn't. Of course not. So they want a new carpet then. Right. If they do the whole house like that's a whole nother deal and honestly it's not even that much okay i mean i had when i moved

in my new place there was tile wood the whole deal they did like four floors and it was it was a little bit more than this but it wasn't more so you're getting you getting screwed on this price, but you're just in a tough spot. You're in a completely tough spot. And a lot of times I'll be like, hey, you should just sit down and figure it out heart to heart at all. I don't know. I mean, you're kind of dealing with somebody who's irrational right now, whether it's his own irrational behavior or the influence of the wife saying, hey, you know what would

be nice? It's 800 bucks towards a renovation, which sucks. But all right. So I don't know if we solved any problems today, but keep them coming. Um, the fitness ones I've been putting in a folder with Kyle. So we're, uh, we're good to go on those. We're just going to have our guy lined up. So that's the pod.

We'll be, uh, doing a rewatchables, Bill Simmons, Bill Lawrence, creator of Ted Lasso. We'll be doing out of sight. Uh, that'll be coming up soon. And then I have, um, another project that I'm working on for the podcast that I'm pretty excited about too. We started booking those guests out and we'll be back on Friday. So please subscribe, rate, and review Rhymer's Little Podcast, Ringer, and Spotify. Thank you.